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[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4167566]It's not a rat. It just emphasises the shortcomings of the small sample sizes.
You could take 2 samples at ER today. Each 1000 people. Ask them yes or no. One sample could be 60:40 one way. The other 60:40 the other way.
What conclusion could you draw from that?[/QUOTE
Neck and neck, point taken...
not got a link but faisal islam has tweeted the age breakdown asQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
16:34 57% Y: 43% N, 35-54 55% Y: 45% N, 55+ 38%Y: 62%N ...over 55s just save Union
the whole referendum has completly distracted me from how ***** hibs are. I got a big reminder from being at easter road today though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
heres a more indepth analysis of the panelbase result http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2...e-just-little/
I'd rather the polls indicate it being neck and neck. I don't want any potential yes voters becoming complacent.
If things really are that even, I think Yes will win the day because their voters want it more.
I find the NO campaign truly shocking :embarrass I would want to know every extra power they would give to Scotland as they have said they would- and yet, I can't find anything online.
The Scottish Sun coming out in favour of the Yes campaign ? Murdoch's revenge ?
Massive salt with regard to any poll, I may have a dream but I really do think most undecided will flip to yes on the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Heard today that yes campaign internal stats for my area shows undecided voters going to yes in a ratio of 7:1.
Of course it is.... he's loving this :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
Ahem.... have you, eh, had any more....um.... thoughts? :greengrin
Look mate ....... I had a ( possibly wine fuelled :greengrin ) emotional diatribe on here a few pages back some of which I regret, some of which I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
But all I can say after reading that load of old bollocks is that an independent Scotland would be starting off at an advantage from the word go without folk like you in it.
Last night of the Proms on the BBC has certainly convinced me
[QUOTE=Leith Green;4167571]Don't think you could even say that, TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
You would have to know that the 2,000 were representative of all Hibbies. Age, gender, social background etc.
[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4167648]The one fact I take from these polls is that Support for Yes has risen over the past 4-6 weeks, and looks to have held its gains, even after the crazy past week with No throwing everything and anything at YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
BBC news at it again, today in edinburgh a better together March got thousands of people, eh nah doll it was a ****ing orange march, sleekit *******s
Why has it not been a winning formula? Is your life not exactly how you want it to be? Must be the bloody English...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Servant
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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Was announced on TV here that it was a march against Independence. :furious:
Aye, heard that as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
TBH the BBC bias used to have me raging but I just laugh at it now. They are finished in Scotland after this referendum regardless of which way it goes.
I won't believe anything they say again.
I won't be in it either way. It's just a point of view. I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree. I'm just venting / expressing / speaking (choose the verb). However, with folk like you in it, most would be better out of it... in my most humble of opinions...Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
One of the biggest benefits of independence is that if it goes tits up we wont be able to blame the English, or anybody else for that matter ... you know .... like the other proper grown up countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
:faf::faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/boo%20hoo.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
We're a country that, unlike the English, has managed to obsess about a stupid sectarian divide for the better part of the last one hundred and fifty years or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
I'm not taking anything for granted in terms of how grown-up Scotland can be, independent or otherwise.
Every country has its crosses to bare mate ...... The sectarian divide IMO does not have the same social impact it once had, though it would be foolish to pretend it has gone away. Yes you still have the stupid marches and the crap at football, but I highly doubt what school you went to has as big an affect on job prospects as it once had, even in the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Don't get me wrong we have to keep working on it.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Jesus, that nick robinson is getting pelters on his twitter.. Thoroughly deserved in my opinion, the guy has been shown up for exactly what he is..
You seen the front page of tomorrow's Herald?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
Brilliant!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Sorry, think I posted the wrong pic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
This is the one I meant to post:-
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/...438528/photo/1
We live in a country where we've seen exponential growth in food banks, children living in poverty, indiscriminate attacks on the disabled, the bedroom tax, billions set to be frittered away on weapons of mass destruction, mps troughing expenses at record levels, the gap between the rich and poor widening at an alarming rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Aye, it's exactly how I wanted it.
You clearly can't see that for most of us voting yes it's less about "me" and more about "us"
That is outrageous. I'm getting properly disgusted by some of the headlines and coverage from the pro-union media and better together campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
My only hope is that the scaremongering and media bias is so obvious and downright desperate that the undecideds can see it fir what it really is and turn towards a yes vote and let us have nothing more to do with these contemptible people.
The telegraph headline is disgusting. These are educated people making decisions to run these stories. Truly awful
Just totally wrong on so many levels. Throw into that the amount of serviceman who were sent out to their deaths fighting wars in Iraq and afghanistan that were never about preserving the Union..Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
This paper should be ashamed of itself , especially on the day a Scotsman was discovered to have been beheaded.
Quite simply sc@m. No depths these t@ssers won't plummet. Ironic as I seen yesterday a bit about the thousands of Sikhs who had died in the wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
What they fail to grasp is that this referendum is about the future, not the past. This is going to prove their undoing, as thats the way people are looking at this. If that is their argument then hell mend them.
Future over past, hope above fear, confidence over insecurity, a voice louder than a whisper, the poor as much as the wealthy...
Prepare yourself for their desperation to get even worse over the next 5 days. That is absolutely shocking!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
Do you know what, both campaigns and the media should agree to a day off of the referendum tomorrow as a mark of respect to this Scotsmans family and friendsQuote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
If only that were true... I have a feeling that if independence was a disaster Salmond and all the other Yes voters would be pointing south and whining about it not being their own fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
And it's all someone else's fault. I am looking forward to see who gets the blame if independence happens. It could be quite amusing I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
Oh dear. Gutter journalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yea a definite NO for me.
Don't cry. Or do. Doesn't change much.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Thankfully, as you keep reminding us, you'll not be here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
But a lot of people will. And, assuming the vote is Yes, it is likely to be a small margin of victory. That means that nearly half the people there will not want these changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
So yes I am extremely thankful that I will not be there should too many people make a dumb decision. I am glad that I am not there anyway. And I am also glad that I don't need a particular nationality to define myself. It's actually pretty sad that so many people feel the need to have that.
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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I am on the front page of the Sunday Herald :thumbsup:
You would have to dig up the gutter and look underneath to find where that came from.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHFC
Perhaps the Gurkhas who have died in their thousands fighting in our wars for over a century would be entitled to ask where the UKs regard and gratitude for its soldiers was when they had to rely on a TV personality ( the magnificent Joanna Lumley ) and the European court before the UK would listen to their pleas for justice on pensions.
Supprised not one paper had a pic of the banner at the O/O march. About them and KKK. Sick. Made me now a YES man and most likely a few thousand others.
Well on your first point that's the bloomin' trouble with democracy mate ..... perhaps we should do away with it. I haven't got the government I have voted for even once since my first vote in 1979.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
For most folk nationality matters ...... it does not define you as a person, your individual character does that .. I have English, Welsh and Canadian friends .... we are all proud of our nationality, but that is of utterly no consequence as to why we became. or remain, friends.
You have been pretty coy about which countries hospitality you currently enjoy .... what are their views on nationality and would they correspond with yours I wonder?
A young girl in need of a lung transplant climbed the castle rock a day ago to pin up a Yes sign with her oxygen tubes sticking up her nose from the bottle she had to carry .... her anger at baseless scare stories from BT about cross border transplant services stopping prompted her action .......... perhaps you would like to tell her about her "dumb decision".
Which is why I think for a referendum, with consequences and change of this magnitude, should require a clear majority victory for it to go through. Instead of the highly possible 51 - 49 split. Imagine trying to set up a newly established country with slightly under half of the population against it. Not the best way to start really. A lot of people will actually want independent Scotland to fail, just so they can say 'told you so'. And yes I know this is democracy before anyone points it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Thats ludicrous, and utter pish.. In your book the minority would win. You do realise how stupid that is eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Calm down dear. A clear majority to win, with perhaps a stipulation that if they got over 50% then another vote would be held within so many years, along with more powers or devo max in the interim. Didn't expect that to be a popular post btw :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
The main point is that it simply can't be a good thing forming a new country with marginally under half of the population against the change. We'd be starting off as a fractured nation.
George Robertson and the Scots UKIP guy are saying today that a narrow win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Sorry, but them's the rules. Can't change them just because one doesn't like the outcome.
As a side issue, is it just me that us shocked by how much of a slaver Robertson has become?
Was in today's Herald. Saying YES require 60% for a mandate. Shows how desperate NO are becoming. Great piece by Ian Bell, who is a big Hibs fan, in that paper. Proper journalist.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Pretty low chat and really isn't any better than what the Telegraph did today IMHO. Many folk, including myself, supported the fight to get justice for the Ghurkas for a long time before it became fashionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
You might find this hard to take but, and it'll even be the case in an independent Scotland, governments don't always do the right thing or listen to their citizens. Aside from that, the UK government isn't the UK any more than Salmond is Scotland.
For decades the UK has been run by political parties who polled less than 50% of the popular vote and have used that mandate to impose unfair policies and take us into illegal wars. Ask them about PR for example and wait to get spat on.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
I have faith that if it is Yes people will come together for the good of Scotland .... I hope the same if its No.
Its one thing worrying about blood on the streets ........... its quite another wishing it so like our friend the Colonel. .... Not accusing you of that by the way FTC.
That's the thing about stuff like that though Beefster ...... It goads people to respond in kind. In this case an attempt at moral blackmail using the armed forces ...... in the context it was used I don't think my point was unreasonable as it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
Is it not the case the the SNP polled less than 50% and used that mandate to bring this referendum about? Not quite the same as what you're saying but you get the jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
I hope you're right and people do unite once we are clear how things will pan out. If not then problems lie ahead.
Yes ...... Things don't always work out badly :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
I suppose the one thing about this is that there isn't more than one option to split the vote ..... Yes / No ..... Mind you I bet there are a few BT folk who wish they hadn't bumped the Devo Max option now.
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
So your unhappy that a large minority might have to lump it whilst the small majority get to do things their way. A bit hypocritical considering that's what's been happening in Scotland for the last 300 years, only the boot's been on the other foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
I'm some people's heads Devo Max is still on the table if you vote No. The riders of the apocalypse have achieved that if nothing else. Fear works.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
I'm uncomfortable with the vote appearing to be so close, yes. That's your view. Back in reality, every scot alive today was born as a uk citizen and as such have set their lives and business' up on the rules and regulations set by the uk government. It's not perfect (what country/government is?) but the level of disruption which is likely to be caused by a split of the union is against a lot of peoples wishes, especially with no guarantees or clarity on how things are going to be post split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
The last reiteration of "more powers" was the Calman Commission, the changes which it recommended (some of them anyway) will be delivered in 2015, 8 years after it commenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
Is that how long we'll be waiting after a "No" ? :cb
Edit: the clock started ticking after the parties agreed it should happen etc (apart from the SNP) .... As so aptly put by William Hague there's not even a cross party agreement as yet, far less a governmental agreement to begin the process... So at the moment the clock's not even wound up to begin it's ticking!
Tell me, how do you define yourself? I've got a few ideas, but I doubt you would agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
ps have you ever lived in Hong Kong?
Just because someone feels strongly about something does not make them right about it. And, yes, I think it is a dumb decision - being sick does not change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Just because lots of folk think something is important does not mean that it is.
Being proud of one's nationality is actually a slightly strange thing. What's to be proud of? Being born somewhere... Everyone is born somewhere and it's not an achievement - so why be proud of it? It's no more of an achievement than say having a nose. Although I am glad that I have a nose - it's hardly something I'm "proud" of.
Nationalism is also dumb in my opinion, regardless of where it is. Where I live now is irrelevant - it's not part of the UK anyway.
I also don't care what the people from the country where I live think about nationality. Why would I? That said, if it started becoming extreme and small minded to the extent where they were going to vote for something that would impact many people's lives there (for the worse a I saw it) then I would leave here. Fortunately I don't see anything so significant happening anytime in the near future.
I define myself by how I act and what I do/achieve in my life - not where I happened to be born (that was random and is absolutely not an achievement).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Servant
They promised us the earth, but all I want is our landQuote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
Agree completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
This thing about disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
For most of us, our daily lives would be virtually unchanged. Any changes that there are would be gradual and almost imperceptible.
Things gradually going to s**t isn't much better than it happening suddenly...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Is that what will happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Can't argue with that. The last 40 years or more of Westminster governments proved that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
The slow downward spiral.
In my and many other people's opinion, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Then we, the people of Scotland, given the opportunity can change things for the better, or continue to accept what is served up and moan about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
I'm pretty sure a lot of people in Scotland will continue to moan and blame others regardless of what happens. If independence happens then they will moan about and blame whatever government is left in Scotland. Or they will find a way to blame outside influences. Cry baby adults are a little too old to grow out of it - changing government or anything else is not the answer. To stop being a whining b***h the change has to come from within.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Don't see it myself. No worse than many other places. Just whining people looking to blame others for not being happy with their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
And people who are trying to set about making the changes required to make things better.
So a change of currency, or increased prices/tax would be imperceptible?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
What change of currency?Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
What increased prices?
As for tax, the only change mooted is a reduction in CT.
Not saying it's a definite, but it can't be ruled out either can it?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
And neither can price reductions.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
There's certainly no sign of any change to the currency.
It won't make a difference. Just other people to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
Point taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
This is all opinion (well researched or otherwise) at the end of the day. And opinion isn't enough for me and many others to gamble on.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Says who? You? The difference is that if we are not being governed properly then at least we can vote to do something about it, and it'll actually count
An example would be when we have an election in an independent Scotland, you can guarantee that the turnout will be far higher than the recent general elections we have seen.
Just saw thousands protest at BBC Glasgow HQ over their biased reporting of the referendum.
And the BBC have reported on it :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29196912
Aye, tucked away in the scotland west section. They also said up to a 1000 protestors, but it was several thousand according to STV newsQuote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
They don't like it up 'em!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
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Originally Posted by DaveF
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Originally Posted by Leith Green
The BBC updated their website. The image below is what originally accompanied the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Attachment 13450
Yes, I say. That's the point of a forum - people saying things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
Obviously you don't agree, and that's another thing that happens on discussion forums.
I just think people often spend their whole lives trying to find people or things to blame for their own problems. And I don't think Scotland being independent will change that. It will just give a lot of people some extra annoying s**t to deal with.
It will actually give all of us less annoying sh*t to deal with. One of the reasons I'm voting Yes is that, for a nation of 5m people, we have too many levels of Government. We can get rid of the cowboys in Westminster, and have more time to deal with the cowboys at Holyrood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Seriously? For disruption, read opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
J
In the interests of clarity (because I'm not in any way biased) that set of photo's alludes to a demo yesterday (13th) in Glasgow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
The link I posted was about today's march to Pacific Quay.
Spot on mate. You've done just that for the last couple of pages :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Yes seriously. Disruption is very likely, particularly for Scottish businesses. After that there MAY be opportunity, or it MAY go tits up. Nobody knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
That's pretty stupid. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Where did I once say anything like that? I'm just observing the situation and expressing what I think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
I'm not complaining about Westminster, government, the BBC etc. I just don't think voting Yes is a very good idea. And I don't think it will solve anyone in Scotland's problems. I think it will add problems (at least practical problems) to many people's lives.
That is not blaming. It's just expressing a point of view. And I really don't blame anyone else for problems in my life.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
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Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
I've no idea :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Even stupider. That's not ME blaming anyone. That is just me using the word "blame" to describe how I think other people act.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Try and understand: I am not blaming anyone. I think that a lot of people do. And I don't think a Yes vote will change that at all.
Comprender?
After Independence I think a lot of people will accept that the buck stops at Holyrood. Face it, the smaller number of MSPs will be more accountable than all the Westminster MPsQuote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC