SNP are lying b******s as well !

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Sturgeon has pulled out of the climate change discussion she was going to take part in today at the Edinburgh Science festival. No doubt she will be accused of hiding but it looks like a sensible decision. She would be bombarded with off topic questions about her husbands arrest which she couldn’t legally answer.

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Even with questions at the event tightly controlled, she would have to fight her way through a scrum of journalists shouting questions that would look dreadful.

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Originally Posted by archie

But it was hugely popular in Scotland. I say that as someone who thinks it was a terrible idea.

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Where the scheme really goes wrong was the Tory lies at the time, saying money generated from the right to buy scheme was going to be used to build new council houses …. But surprisingly :rolleyes it didn’t

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Why does the news keep emphasising Sturgeon and Murrell had 'no prior knowledge' of the arrest and search? If I was going to be arrested tomorrow would I get a friendly phone call tonight saying 'by the way you are going to be arrested tomorrow'?

I get why it might be expected the FM would be made aware but surely not the suspect?

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They did it again on GMB this morning, massive emphasis on it.

Maybe they're re-iterating as a bit of reverse psychology?

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Where the scheme really goes wrong was the Tory lies at the time, saying money generated from the right to buy scheme was going to be used to build new council houses …. But surprisingly :rolleyes it didn’t

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Well the reality was that councils couldn’t. Money had to go to redeeming debt and new houses, after a period, would be subject to the right to buy!

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Do we expect NS to continue as an MSP until the next election?

If it's shown that she's lied about of any of this, she would have to stand down, meaning a by-election.

For such a smart political operator for so long, how has she got this so spectacularly wrong. She must have known that these things always come out eventually.

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And rightly so, she should stand down as an MSP if she's found guilty of anything.

But she hasn't got anything wrong yet, and the fact her husband has been released after 12 hours in police custody without charge would suggest she still hasn't gotten anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Not sure why you keep suggesting posts are argumentative. Chill out man, it's a debate. Maybe try a wee green tea or something.

Anyway, of course if she has been found to lie she should resign, but that goes for any member of parliament.

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Only the ones at the Scottish Parliament :wink:

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Only the ones at the Scottish Parliament :wink:

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Only if they ‘knowingly’ lied. :wink:

I think automatic resignation for telling porkies only applies to ministers. The rest can bluff their way out of it if they want with no consequences.

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

The only party who redistributed wealth by the stroke of a pen was the conservative party and the right to buy scheme, and that's a fact. No other party has come close or will ever come close.

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That’s all fine and well but I’ve been waiting on a council house that’s suitable for my disabled wife now for three years. In that time we’ve had to make do with a private let that’s very expensive and unsuited to her needs, to the point where she rarely gets out the house and absolutely doesn’t get out without my assistance. They sold off a bunch of houses for a quick buck, not to redistribute wealth.


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Originally Posted by marinello59

Only if they ‘knowingly’ lied. :wink:

I think automatic resignation for telling porkies only applies to ministers. The rest can bluff their way out of it if they want with no consequences.

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According to this list ministers and MPs lie through their teeth on a regular basis and despite being told have made no attempt to correct the record.

https://fullfact.org/updates/mps-who-have-not-corrected-the-record/

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Originally Posted by ErinGoBraghHFC

That’s all fine and well but I’ve been waiting on a council house that’s suitable for my disabled wife now for three years. In that time we’ve had to make do with a private let that’s very expensive and unsuited to her needs, to the point where she rarely gets out the house and absolutely doesn’t get out without my assistance. They sold off a bunch of houses for a quick buck, not to redistribute wealth.


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It wasn't even for money. It was to drive social change in the country and break the power of councils.

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Originally Posted by archie

It wasn't even for money. It was to drive social change in the country and break the power of councils.

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... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid! :rolleyes:

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Yes. It was social engineering. And very popular.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Not a pretty picture. But hey, the SNP are only a vehicle for independence...or not, as that piece concludes.

I saw Salmond doing his best to make political capital from the SNP crisis yesterday. He must be loving this. Could it be a way back to relevance for him if folk are looking for a replacement vehicle for independence?

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In this persons opinion you mean.

Nobody I know is "looking" for Salmond to be the new/not new figurehead for a splinter movement. He is more than a little bit tainted.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid! :rolleyes:

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The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

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Originally Posted by greenginger

The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

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I didn't know that. Did they propose the same deep discounts to market value and not to build more public housing stock?

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Originally Posted by greenginger

The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

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This is what the manifesto said: building houses, security of tenure, rent controls, slum clearance and right to buy. The right to buy wasn't new, it was the ramped up discounts that made the difference. That was the difference the Tories made and that's why it was so popular - it was free money, if you were lucky enough to be in a desirable house.

http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manif...anifesto.shtml :

Housing

Labour's policy has two aims: to help people buy their own homes and to ensure an adequate supply of decent houses to let at a fair rent.

As a first step we shall repeal the Rent Act, restore security of tenure to decontrolled houses, stop further decontrol, and ensure fair rents by giving a right of appeal to rent tribunals.

The return of a Tory Government would mean further rent increases and the decontrol of many more houses. We say this despite the official Tory assurance that there will be no decontrol during the life of the next Parliament-for we remember what happened last time.

During the 1955 Election Mr. Bevan prophesied that rents of controlled houses would be increased if the Conservatives came back to power. Two days later the Conservative Central Office denied this, and said there was no truth in his statement. In 1957 the Conservative Government introduced the Rent Act.

Under the Tories, home purchasers have been subject to unpredictable and burden-some increases of interest rates. Labour will bring interest rates down. We shall also reform leasehold law to enable leaseholders with long leases to buy their own homes.

Council building of rented houses has been slashed under the Tories chiefly as a result of higher interest rates and the abolition of the general housing subsidy. We shall reverse their policy by restoring the subsidy and providing cheaper money for housing purposes. We shall encourage councils to press on with slum clearance.

At the last count there were seven million households in Britain with no bath, and over three million sharing or entirely without a w.c. The Tories have tried to induce private land lords to improve their property by means of public grants, with very small success. Labour's plan is that, with reasonable exceptions, local councils shall take over houses which were rent-controlled before 1 January, 1956, and are still tenanted. They will repair and modernise these houses and let them at fair rents. This is a big job which will take time and its speed will vary according to local conditions.

Every tenant, however, will have a chance first to buy from the Council the house he lives in; and all Council tenants in future will enjoy the same security of tenure as rent-restricted tenants.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Not sure why you keep suggesting posts are argumentative. Chill out man, it's a debate. Maybe try a wee green tea or something.

Anyway, of course if she has been found to lie she should resign, but that goes for any member of parliament.

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You could have answered that way the first time!

Radio Scotland today said the tent was only there to hide what the police were taking out of the house and putting in their van.

It would have caused a lot less drama if they had just carried out the green tote boxes with their lids closed in full view.

The tent made things look so much worse.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Radio Scotland today said the tent was only there to hide what the police were taking out of the house and putting in their van.

It would have caused a lot less drama if they had just carried out the green tote boxes with their lids closed in full view.

The tent made things look so much worse.

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As someone else has said the Murrells have had plenty of time to hide any evidence, that might not be as easy electronically. Either way our very own Bill and Hillary are as crooked as they come, who'd have thought you could amass millions working for politicians.

Police still searching the house now. The must suspect something really serious. Or they haven’t found anything and are getting desperate. The FBI searched Mar-a-lago quicker.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Police still searching the house now. The must suspect something really serious. Or they haven’t found anything and are getting desperate. The FBI searched Mar-a-lago quicker.


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Can take a while counting these sorts of numbers on fingers and toes, could explain why the whole of police Scotland are there.
It was like the Roman search scene in life of Brian last I saw.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

You could have answered that way the first time!

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I'm aware you are easily triggered into thinking posts are argumentative, so I'll respond to that nicely to say, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the answer was but glad to have helped you out with it.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

I'm aware you are easily triggered into thinking posts are argumentative, so I'll respond to that nicely to say, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the answer was but glad to have helped you out with it.

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Not really easily triggered, I just didn't see the point in your original reply.

"You think you know better than Police Scotland" - how is that adding to the debate?

It was having a dig at me. No biggy, but a dig all the same.

Other posters managed to read and reply to my original post without any problem at all.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

I'm aware you are easily triggered into thinking posts are argumentative, so I'll respond to that nicely to say, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the answer was but glad to have helped you out with it.

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Besides, I'm aware that this can be an emotional topic so I'm trying not to cause any division and keep things civil.

Is that a bad thing? We can disagree but still be nice!

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

As someone else has said the Murrells have had plenty of time to hide any evidence, that might not be as easy electronically. Either way our very own Bill and Hillary are as crooked as they come, who'd have thought you could amass millions working for politicians.

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Shocked and surprised at their wealth. Also surprised it's never been the focus of attention before now.

I don't even know how it's possible, unless it's inherited wealth. Their salaries will have been public knowledge the whole time probably.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Not really easily triggered, I just didn't see the point in your original reply.

"You think you know better than Police Scotland" - how is that adding to the debate?

It was having a dig at me. No biggy, but a dig all the same.

Other posters managed to read and reply to my original post without any problem at all.

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If you are going to quote me then at least make sure it's actually what I said, rather than changing the words to suit yourself.

Anyway, enjoy your day.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Shocked and surprised at their wealth. Also surprised it's never been the focus of attention before now.

I don't even know how it's possible, unless it's inherited wealth. Their salaries will have been public knowledge the whole time probably.

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It's like the threads we have on players' salaries. Most of it is guesswork, and becomes accepted fact.

These are the facts we know:-

1. her salary is in the public domain.

2. his is for some years, as regards the SNP, which he's been with for 20-odd years. Some years were published, some weren't.

3. prior to that, he worked in industry. No salary details.

4. they live in an estate very like one close to me. Fairly normal middle-class houses. Probably worth around £300-400k

5. they have no kids.

These are what we don't know:-

1. whether they have any inherited wealth.

2. what investments they have been able to make.

3. what, if anything, their mortgage is.

This is what has been assumed:-

1. they're up to their necks in some dodgy scheme that has them rolling in it.

2. the above is *****.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

If you are going to quote me then at least make sure it's actually what I said, rather than changing the words to suit yourself.

Anyway, enjoy your day.

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Sorry, I didn't go back and re read your post, so didn't manage to get it word for word.

You got the point though :aok:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's like the threads we have on players' salaries. Most of it is guesswork, and becomes accepted fact.

These are the facts we know:-

1. her salary is in the public domain.

2. his is for some years, as regards the SNP, which he's been with for 20-odd years. Some years were published, some weren't.

3. prior to that, he worked in industry. No salary details.

4. they live in an estate very like one close to me. Fairly normal middle-class houses. Probably worth around £300-400k

5. they have no kids.

These are what we don't know:-

1. whether they have any inherited wealth.

2. what investments they have been able to make.

3. what, if anything, their mortgage is.

This is what has been assumed:-

1. they're up to their necks in some dodgy scheme that has them rolling in it.

2. the above is *****.

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I somewhat agree. His quoted worth surprised me so I Googled it. Somewhere between £1m to £5m these net worth websites came up with. What I think they mean is they haven't a clue!

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

1. they're up to their necks in some dodgy scheme that has them rolling in it.

2. the above is *****.

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It's their business, fair play to them I guess.

I just didn't think anyone in Scottish politics would be that wealthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's like the threads we have on players' salaries. Most of it is guesswork, and becomes accepted fact.

These are the facts we know:-

1. her salary is in the public domain.

2. his is for some years, as regards the SNP, which he's been with for 20-odd years. Some years were published, some weren't.

3. prior to that, he worked in industry. No salary details.

4. they live in an estate very like one close to me. Fairly normal middle-class houses. Probably worth around £300-400k

5. they have no kids.

These are what we don't know:-

1. whether they have any inherited wealth.

2. what investments they have been able to make.

3. what, if anything, their mortgage is.

This is what has been assumed:-

1. they're up to their necks in some dodgy scheme that has them rolling in it.

2. the above is *****.

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I would be astonished if this was about trousering money for personal use. On wealth, this can be bolstered by house values (I think he has a share in a house in Portugal) and pension pots. None of which is liquid cash.

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Originally Posted by degenerated

Can take a while counting these sorts of numbers on fingers and toes, could explain why the whole of police Scotland are there.
It was like the Roman search scene in life of Brian last I saw.

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Too busy singing the sash in each room and sending it their Masonic pals down the lodge

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Too busy singing the sash in each room and sending it their Masonic pals down the lodge

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:hilarious

Where is there an accurate figure for what they are worth? I haven’t seen one yet? This looks like absolute total guess work?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Police still searching the house now. The must suspect something really serious. Or they haven’t found anything and are getting desperate. The FBI searched Mar-a-lago quicker.


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I remain bemused as to what they hope to find bearing in mind there's been an 18-month investigation into this. Unless Murrell is plain daft you'd imagine anything incriminating on the premises would be long gone.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Where is there an accurate figure for what they are worth? I haven’t seen one yet? This looks like absolute total guess work?


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I'm just going by the figure on the thread a couple of pages back. Could be total BS, no idea.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

I'm just going by the figure on the thread a couple of pages back. Could be total BS, no idea.

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I’m almost certain it is. There are plenty people out there willing to make malicious claims about their wealth. I don’t think there is any benefit in discussing something that is very likely complete BS.
We’d be as well talking about the £340m fortune that Ross has accumulated and the £1.2bn fortune that Sarwar has tucked away.
If NS had any money then investment income would have shown on her tax return? Was there large amounts coming in from investments? Her share of a £4m fortune would generate a fair bit of annual income.


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...r_name=twitter


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The must have a fair amount of wealth if he can loan them 107k, fair play to them they are both on absolutely massive wages

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If NS had any money then investment income would have shown on her tax return? Was there large amounts coming in from investments? Her share of a £4m fortune would generate a fair bit of annual income.

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No income other than her salary.

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Originally Posted by grunt

No income other than her salary.

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We’ll if she has got a couple of million tucked away then she is going to jail for tax evasion. Or it could be that she is not worth what is being bandied about without evidence.


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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The must have a fair amount of wealth if he can loan them 107k, fair play to them they are both on absolutely massive wages

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Nicola's tax return (for the last 8 years ) is on the SNP website. In 21/22 her FM salary was £140k. "Massive wages".

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• Nicola’s income is the salary she receives as an MSP and First Minister.
• Nicola pays tax on her full salary entitlement but only draws her salary at its 2008/09 level. The balance is automatically paid by the Scottish Parliament to the Scottish Government for use in general public spending.

This year, 2022-23, Nicola will forgo more than £27,000 in salary so that it can be spent on public services.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

We’ll if she has got a couple of million tucked away then she is going to jail for tax evasion. Or it could be that she is not worth what is being bandied about without evidence.


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She already said there finances are separate and that the 100k loan was nothing to do with her. They would be wasteful if they hadn't accumulated a fair wedge. Both on over 100k for many years although he dropped it to 70k, no kids, massive expenses paid for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Nicola's tax return (for the last 8 years ) is on the SNP website. In 21/22 her FM salary was £140k. "Massive wages".

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Saying 140k plus expenses that almost most other jobs would dream of, isn't a massive wage is a slap in the face to the 99% of Scots that get well under that. What's the average wage 25k or something

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Saying 140k plus expenses that almost most other jobs would dream of, isn't a massive wage is a slap in the face to the 99% of Scots that get well under that. What's the average wage 25k or something

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She was the FM. You're being ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by grunt

She was the FM. You're being ridiculous.

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I said it's a massive wage you questioned that. It is a massive wage. He was on over 100k from the snp for years also a massive wage, merited or not

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Originally Posted by grunt

She was the FM. You're being ridiculous.

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£140k plus expenses by any standard whatsoever is a massive wages. I'm genuinely amazed anyone would think otherwise.

Jesus.

The CEO of Hibs earned more than twice Nicola Sturgeon did last year. One headed up a mid table football club, one was the elected leader of the country.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Jesus.

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No he was working class by all accounts. Born into poverty but did admittedly get good expenses and unlimited wine if water was nearby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Jesus.

The CEO of Hibs earned more than twice Nicola Sturgeon did last year. One headed up a mid table football club, one was the elected leader of the country.

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What about nurses v NS about 5 to one not including expenses. You questioned massive wages, not whether they were fair or if football people get more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Jesus.

The CEO of Hibs earned more than twice Nicola Sturgeon did last year. One headed up a mid table football club, one was the elected leader of the country.

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That's an argument around what senior roles are paid, but you can't genuinely claim that £140,000 a year isn't a massive wage.

I'd consider £70,000 a great wage personally, and I'd imagine most folk would, and it's double that.
.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

That's an argument around what senior roles are paid, but you can't genuinely claim that £140,000 a year isn't a massive wage.

I'd consider £70,000 a great wage personally, and I'd imagine most folk would, and it's double that.

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20,000 people in Scotland earned more than £150k last year.

And I am arguing it's not a massive wage for the responsibility she has carried for the last 8 years.

This is such a stupid argument I'm not replying again on the subject of NS' salary.

Her wage is a good one, no doubt about it but that’s not what’s being talked about here. As far as I could see she paid a fair chunk into her own pension fund but that is it as far as investment goes.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

20,000 people in Scotland earned more than £150k last year.

And I am arguing it's not a massive wage for the responsibility she has carried for the last 8 years.

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So 0.75% of workers 😆 its a massive wage as perhaps it should be

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

20,000 people in Scotland earned more than £150k last year.

And I am arguing it's not a massive wage for the responsibility she has carried for the last 8 years.

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In one respect grunt is right. The guy who heads up the company running the DRS is on £300,000! So in comparability terms it's not out of kilter. But it is, to any ordinary person, a massive wage.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I remain bemused as to what they hope to find bearing in mind there's been an 18-month investigation into this. Unless Murrell is plain daft you'd imagine anything incriminating on the premises would be long gone.

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Or it never existed 😉

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Her wage is a good one, no doubt about it but that’s not what’s being talked about here. As far as I could see she paid a fair chunk into her own pension fund but that is it as far as investment goes.


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I would need to check this but I think you are referring to her MSP pension?

As First Minister isn’t she entitled to 50% of her FM salary as a pension, from the minute she leaves office?

I don’t begrudge her it, BTW. While it certainly is multiples of the average income, there will be loads of examples of people in other jobs getting paid more where you think “WTF?” Same with U.K. PM although for Rishi the PM salary probably barely registers when he’s on his mobile banking app :greengrin

https://news.stv.tv/politics/bernard...icola-sturgeon

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://news.stv.tv/politics/bernard...icola-sturgeon

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Police need a charge soon.


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Going back to the start of all of this about the money, why is it a matter for the Police?

I think I read that some individuals had made complaints, but complaints about what?

If the SNP said they’d use the cash for one thing, but instead used it for another, so what?

What did I miss?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Going back to the start of all of this about the money, why is it a matter for the Police?

I think I read that some individuals had made complaints, but complaints about what?

If the SNP said they’d use the cash for one thing, but instead used it for another, so what?

What did I miss?

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A quick google will give you a detailed answer, a quick summary would be the money raised by the rank and file was supposed to be ring fenced for Indy2 and they want to know where it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Police need a charge soon.


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65202843

For Murrell or Sturgeon? The reference to 28 days in this 'what happens next' analysis doesn't make clear if that's related to charges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65202843

For Murrell or Sturgeon? The reference to 28 days in this 'what happens next' analysis doesn't make clear if that's related to charges.

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It’s not. It relates to being released with conditions which can last for up to 28 days.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/sc...-charged-nbsp-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65202843

For Murrell or Sturgeon? The reference to 28 days in this 'what happens next' analysis doesn't make clear if that's related to charges.

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Why would it be Sturgeon?

As far as I know the Police have given no indication whatsoever that she is under investigation. What makes you think it would be her?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Police need a charge soon.


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Why, if there is not enough evidence to reach the the threshold of a criminal charge …remember this is a PFS led investigation where the police are just evidence gatherers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Going back to the start of all of this about the money, why is it a matter for the Police?

I think I read that some individuals had made complaints, but complaints about what?

If the SNP said they’d use the cash for one thing, but instead used it for another, so what?

What did I miss?

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I think this is why it’s a matter for the police - they are trying to establish whether or not there has been any wrongdoing.

£600k isn’t an insignificant amount of money, enough to piss people off if it has been earmarked for something then gets dishonestly whisked away for something else having been contributed in good faith.

So it might end up being something, might end up being nothing, but it’s probably up to the police to help figure out which?

Sadly these things aren’t quite black and white.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Why, if there is not enough evidence to reach the the threshold of a criminal charge …remember this is a PFS led investigation where the police are just evidence gatherers.

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Aye, the police can’t win. No investigation and it’s a cover up. Investigate and it’s an ‘establishment’ stitch up whilst simultaneously being coordinated by the Scottish Government so they could get their man elected in the leadership contest. Erect a tent and it’s a show designed to either humiliate the SNP or to cover up the tip off given so evidence could be destroyed.
It might be that the police have just been doing their job here and what will be revealed will be pretty underwhelming whether charges are brought or not. It has been fun to watch though. :greengrin

Sarwar has called it right, the over riding scandal in Scotland is the state of our NHS, not this. The sooner minds are concentrated on that the better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I think this is why it’s a matter for the police - they are trying to establish whether or not there has been any wrongdoing.

£600k isn’t an insignificant amount of money, enough to piss people off if it has been earmarked for something then gets dishonestly whisked away for something else having been contributed in good faith.

So it might end up being something, might end up being nothing, but it’s probably up to the police to help figure out which?

Sadly these things aren’t quite black and white.

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It's the Police bit I don't get.

If I donate money to Hibs to buy players, but the club spends it on painting the stairs instead, I don't go greeting to the police.

I complain to Hibs and don't give them any more money.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

It's the Police bit I don't get.

If I donate money to Hibs to buy players, but the club spends it on painting the stairs instead, I don't go greeting to the police.

I complain to Hibs and don't give them any more money.

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This is politics though. There are disgruntled ex-members to deal with. People who would gladly bring down the leadership. It’s the same with every party. There would be no shortage of people willing to go to the police.
And if there is wrong doing then they are perfectly entitled to do so.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

This is politics though. There are disgruntled ex-members to deal with. People who would gladly bring down the leadership. It’s the same with every party. There would be no shortage of people willing to go to the police.
And if there is wrong doing then they are perfectly entitled to do so.


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The person that went to the police was that loony Sean Clerkin of the Scottish resistance, there's no way he was an SNP member.

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Originally Posted by degenerated

The person that went to the police was that loony Sean Clerkin of the Scottish resistance, there's no way he was an SNP member.

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He's an ex Council candidate.

At the end of the day nothing will probably come of this. Yet again though the snp or murrell thinking they are clever tried to cover up what really happened. If he had been honest about where the money went when asked then that would have been the end of it.

And yet still people vote for them because they say independence will be great.

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Originally Posted by Skol

At the end of the day nothing will probably come of this. Yet again though the snp or murrell thinking they are clever tried to cover up what really happened. If he had been honest about where the money went when asked then that would have been the end of it.

And yet still people vote for them because they say independence will be great.

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If he has committed a crime then surely he will be charged?


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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

It's the Police bit I don't get.

If I donate money to Hibs to buy players, but the club spends it on painting the stairs instead, I don't go greeting to the police.

I complain to Hibs and don't give them any more money.

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I think it depends on the nature of the “giving”, the conditions attached to that, the formality of the arrangement and whether any sort of consent was sought for it to be used for a different purpose.

Different people have different takes in situations, and can be motivated by all sorts of stuff.

Here the police help figure out if there is wrongdoing or not. Someone, somewhere is obviously pissed off enough to take it this far. Whether or not that is misguided or malevolent remains to be seen.

He spent his campaign saying the opposite but humza now saying governance of the SNP wasn't as it should be.

https://news.sky.com/story/first-min...ld-be-12851270

"Whatever else transpires in this case, it is very, very clear that the governance of the party was not as it should be.

"It was not at its best standard. And frankly, the debacle over membership numbers is just one example of that."

No proof it's linked but SNPs auditors have quit after working with them for a decade. SNPs treasures quit this year saying he was refused proper access to accounts to do his job

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65212357

SNP auditors Johnston Carmichael quit.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/snp-aud...-investigation

Jeezo, they audited the Hearts when owned by Vlad but the SNP were too much for them. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by greenginger

SNP auditors Johnston Carmichael quit.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/snp-aud...-investigation

Jeezo, they audited the Hearts when owned by Vlad but the SNP were too much for them. :greengrin

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If anything has been going on and they haven’t noticed they should be sacked anyway.


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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

It's the Police bit I don't get.

If I donate money to Hibs to buy players, but the club spends it on painting the stairs instead, I don't go greeting to the police.

I complain to Hibs and don't give them any more money.

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I get your logic, think in this case the SNP can’t/haven’t show the stairs that have been painted or the receipt for the paint and brushes, the money can’t be/hasn’t been accounted for

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Originally Posted by McD

I get your logic, think in this case the SNP can’t/haven’t show the stairs that have been painted or the receipt for the paint and brushes, the money can’t be/hasn’t been accounted for

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A couple of league titles to show for it even if they haven’t yet won the champions league.


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Originally Posted by degenerated

The person that went to the police was that loony Sean Clerkin of the Scottish resistance, there's no way he was an SNP member.

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There were seven complainants.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

No proof it's linked but SNPs auditors have quit after working with them for a decade. SNPs treasures quit this year saying he was refused proper access to accounts to do his job

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65212357

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Think it's fair to say the timing of this indicates it's linked.

If they're in any way linked to financial impropriety (as you say, Douglas Chapman quit last year, alleging Murrell refused to grant him the access he required to the SNP accounts) I don't imagine simply terminating their account with the SNP would absolve them.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

He spent his campaign saying the opposite but humza now saying governance of the SNP wasn't as it should be.

https://news.sky.com/story/first-min...ld-be-12851270

"Whatever else transpires in this case, it is very, very clear that the governance of the party was not as it should be.

"It was not at its best standard. And frankly, the debacle over membership numbers is just one example of that."

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The SNP grandees (Sturgeon, Swinney and Murrell) who have stepped down/resigned/been arrested have bequeathed him quite a mess to deal with. No wonder he's floundering.

10 years is too long for the same auditors to have been in post IMO.

I get why it happens, but it's still not good practice.

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

A quick google will give you a detailed answer, a quick summary would be the money raised by the rank and file was supposed to be ring fenced for Indy2 and they want to know where it is.

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Found this on the BBC...:aok:

Why are police investigating the SNP?

• Police Scotland launched an investigation in July 2021 after complaints about how SNP donations were used.
• The funds were donated for a new independence referendum campaign.
• The SNP raised £666,953 through referendum-related appeals between 2017 and 2020.
• Nicola Sturgeon said she was "not concerned" and "every penny" would be spent on the independence drive.
• Questions were raised after SNP accounts showed just £97,000 in the bank at the end of 2019, and total assets of about £272,000.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

Found this on the BBC...:aok:

Why are police investigating the SNP?

• Police Scotland launched an investigation in July 2021 after complaints about how SNP donations were used.
• The funds were donated for a new independence referendum campaign.
• The SNP raised £666,953 through referendum-related appeals between 2017 and 2020.
• Nicola Sturgeon said she was "not concerned" and "every penny" would be spent on the independence drive.
• Questions were raised after SNP accounts showed just £97,000 in the bank at the end of 2019, and total assets of about £272,000.

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Why the police are involved, there has money being raised and donated to the SNP to be used specifically for an independence campaign. The said funds are no longer there. The fund controller (Murrell) has been secretive and injected over a £100k of his own cash as a loan to keep the account solvent. Various factors of not fully explaining where the funds are has led to complaints by donators. The police involvement is to discover if the funds were dishonesty appropriated by Murrell (Theft) or used for other SNP related purposes (Not Theft) …so imho he is either dishonest or incompetent

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Why the police are involved, there has money being raised and donated to the SNP to be used specifically for an independence campaign. The said funds are no longer there. The fund controller (Murrell) has been secretive and injected over a £100k of his own cash as a loan to keep the account solvent. Various factors of not fully explaining where the funds are has led to complaints by donators. The police involvement is to discover if the funds were dishonesty appropriated by Murrell (Theft) or used for other SNP related purposes (Not Theft) …so imho he is either dishonest or incompetent

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To be fair, he could be both.

Tangential but sort of related - Hibs appealed for donations for ground redevelopment when the ends were done, "Hibs 100". iirc, Hibs didn't use it for development. What happened to it? Did the club have to ask the donators for permission to do something else? Were refunds offered?

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Why the police are involved, there has money being raised and donated to the SNP to be used specifically for an independence campaign. The said funds are no longer there. The fund controller (Murrell) has been secretive and injected over a £100k of his own cash as a loan to keep the account solvent. Various factors of not fully explaining where the funds are has led to complaints by donators. The police involvement is to discover if the funds were dishonesty appropriated by Murrell (Theft) or used for other SNP related purposes (Not Theft) …so imho he is either dishonest or incompetent

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The most recent accounts (2021) were given a clean opinion by the auditors.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

To be fair, he could be both.

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Or neither.

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Originally Posted by grunt

The most recent accounts (2021) were given a clean opinion by the auditors.

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Is this the same auditors who have just dumped the SNP as clients :faf:

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Originally Posted by grunt

The most recent accounts (2021) were given a clean opinion by the auditors.

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They have given clean reports for the last 10 years, AIUI.

If there has been any impropriety in that time, you can expect them to have their collars felt by ICAS, at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Is this the same auditors who have just dumped the SNP as clients :faf:

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What are you suggesting?

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Originally Posted by grunt

What are you suggesting?

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Not suggesting anything but in the last few weeks, Chief Constable retires unexpectedly, Nippy retires unexpectedly, Murrell resigns after a push, gets arrested and house searched. Now the SNPs accountants have dropped them as clients stating the were not allowed access to the accounts by Murrell…. Perhaps 🤔 there might be something amiss

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Not suggesting anything but in the last few weeks, Chief Constable retires unexpectedly, Nippy retires unexpectedly, Murrell resigns after a push, gets arrested and house searched. Now the SNPs accountants have dropped them as clients stating the were not allowed access to the accounts by Murrell…. Perhaps 🤔 there might be something amiss

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Think that was the SNP's treasurer rather than the external auditor.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Think that was the SNP's treasurer rather than the external auditor.

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Aye , it was. Closely followed by Joanna Cherry quitting the NEC as she claimed she was being blocked from improving transparency and scrutiny of party affairs.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Think that was the SNP's treasurer rather than the external auditor.

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If that’s the case I stand corrected …but it’s bizarre that the SNP’s Treasurer is not allowed to see the accounts he is supposed to be managing

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

If that’s the case I stand corrected …but it’s bizarre that the SNP’s Treasurer is not allowed to see the accounts he is supposed to be managing

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Yup... summat smells.