When we gonna get over it ?

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Originally Posted by h1bs4life

Do you actually read posts , nobody has mentioned anything outside of Hibs and having to reevaluate their life. Its a football thing quite easy to seperate that from the rest of my life.
Are you one of the ones that if Hibs get beat you go home and kick the cat and don't speak to anyone ?

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I'm the opposite of that. We have people on here saying they are still raging? Like really. Are they still walking about the place in a rage? That makes no sense to me at all. If you are carrying around those feelings that is not a healthy position to be in. Or do you just feel the rage when you start typing on the forum?

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

So, why are we not taking their manager and scouting department?

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Have you not been paying attention to how they’ve succeeded? The large part of that squad have spent years at the club. They have an understanding of how they play that means even if a player makes an individual error, someone else is there to cover it straight away. It gives them more confidence to defend, press and at set pieces.

That can only come through time and makes them greater than the sum of their parts. There’s a reason Craig, Swanson and Drey Wright have looked a shadow of the players they were at Saints compared to their time at us.

You don’t develop a good team by chopping and changing all the time.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

It’s arrogance to portray them as this small team we are so much bigger than and expect to beat them all the time when their successes in the last decade dwarf ours. They deserve every bit of it too.

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Nobody expects us to “beat them all the time”.

Occasionally would be nice though.

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Originally Posted by Brightside

I'm the opposite of that. We have people on here saying they are still raging? Like really. Are they still walking about the place in a rage? That makes no sense to me at all. If you are carrying around those feelings that is not a healthy position to be in. Or do you just feel the rage when you start typing on the forum?

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I’d imagine they mean they’re still raging when they think back to the game as oppose to being raging in general.

If someone asked me about it I’d probably say “I’m still raging” when thinking back to it but I wouldn’t say I’m angry in general because of it

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Originally Posted by Half Pint

Some of the comments, bitching and sniping on this thread is crazy.

Unless your opinion fits the narrative your shot down on here :faf:

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I've read every post on this thread and it seems like a healthy discussion. Folk have different views and that's normal. Whats the narrative out of interest?

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

Where did Hearts finish the season straight after they were promoted?

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3rd. In the season prior they romped the Championship. We did not.

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

And they can think that all they like. I wouldn’t call that Hearts-esque arrogance either.

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The difference is that they would think that because of their results and achievements, our fans (or at least some of them) think that because we sell more season tickets and have a bigger stadium, wage bill and training facilities.

In the end it’s just the on the pitch stuff that matters.

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

Nobody expects us to “beat them all the time”.

Occasionally would be nice though.

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We did this season just completed.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Have you not been paying attention to how they’ve succeeded? The large part of that squad have spent years at the club. They have an understanding of how they play that means even if a player makes an individual error, someone else is there to cover it straight away. It gives them more confidence to defend, press and at set pieces.

That can only come through time and makes them greater than the sum of their parts. There’s a reason Craig, Swanson and Drey Wright have looked a shadow of the players they were at Saints compared to their time at us.

You don’t develop a good team by chopping and changing all the time.

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Good point.

But we also have players who have been at the Club years and years and years...................

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

And they can think that all they like. I wouldn’t call that Hearts-esque arrogance either.

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Neither would I, because it has a good degree of justification to it.

FWIW, based on spend/size of club we underachieve compared to St Johnstone.

The thing that makes a big difference, imho, is St Johnstone stick by their manager during tough periods. Davidson lost seven out of his first ten games, iirc.

We’ve folk who chase Ross after every defeat, we’ve had something in the region of 5 or 6 managers in the time they’ve had two. There’s something to be said for stability and letting managers get time to deliver.

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

Their fan base seems to allow stable management and blips in form which allows them to build.

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:agree: it’s like their accepting mediocrity moments have ultimately paid dividends big style.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Neither would I, because it has a good degree of justification to it.

FWIW, based on spend/size of club we underachieve compared to St Johnstone.

The thing that makes a big difference, imho, is St Johnstone stick by their manager during tough periods. Davidson lost seven out of his first ten games, iirc.

We’ve folk who chase Ross after every defeat, we’ve had something in the region of 5 or 6 managers in the time they’ve had two. There’s something to be said for stability and letting managers get time to deliver.

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I think we all acknowledge that the last thing we need/want is a manager change.

Its just amazing what St Johnstone and Calum Davidson have achieved to be fair and echos the point for stability.

I just hope we can build something here by selling Nisbet Porteous and Doig.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

The difference is that they would think that because of their results and achievements, our fans (or at least some of them) think that because we sell more season tickets and have a bigger stadium, wage bill and training facilities.

In the end it’s just the on the pitch stuff that matters.

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Just to be clear, St J can think that because of their results and achievements yet we finish third and we can’t? :confused:

Nobody is basing it purely on wage bill and training facilities from what I can see although they’re also factors that would lead me to expect to beat them.

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

Their fan base seems to allow stable management and blips in form which allows them to build.

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Would you expect Celtic fans to accept finishing behind us next season or losing two games at Hampden to us because we’ve got one of the longer serving managers in the league now?

Or to take that point further, would you expect us to finish above Celtic next season if we stick with Jack Ross and if not, why not?

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

Just to be clear, St J can think that because of their results and achievements yet we finish third and we can’t? :confused:

Nobody is basing it purely on wage bill and training facilities from what I can see although they’re also factors that would lead me to expect to beat them.

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How many cups have the two clubs won in the past ten years?

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

Would you expect Celtic fans to accept finishing behind us next season or losing two games at Hampden to us because we’ve got one of the longer serving managers in the league now?

Or to take that point further, would you expect us to finish above Celtic next season if we stick with Jack Ross and if not, why not?

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Exactly.

We laugh at Hearts for their big team mentality and persona but that's exactly what we need to have. The mentality of a big club and not accepting mediocrity. I couldn't care if it's our first time finishing 3rd in 16 years or 4th time in 40 years. We should be finishing 3rd and it was a weak 3rd this year.

Do Hearts or Aberdeen even celebrate finishing 3rd?

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

Would you expect Celtic fans to accept finishing behind us next season or losing two games at Hampden to us because we’ve got one of the longer serving managers in the league now?

Or to take that point further, would you expect us to finish above Celtic next season if we stick with Jack Ross and if not, why not?

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Do you think the situations are comparable?

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

Exactly.

We laugh at Hearts for their big team mentality and persona but that's exactly what we need to have. The mentality of a big club and not accepting mediocrity. I couldn't care if it's our first time finishing 3rd in 16 years or 4th time in 40 years. We should be finishing 3rd and it was a weak 3rd this year.

Do Hearts or Aberdeen even celebrate finishing 3rd?

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That’s what we need. We need to copy the team that got relegated last season.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

That’s what we need. We need to copy the team that got relegated last season.

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Eh, demoted actually.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

“Acceptance of failure”. There’s that phrase that nobody can explain what it means coming up again.

The Hearts-esque arrogance of “significantly smaller team” rears its head too. Season ticket sales and the like mean nothing when a club has done so well to keep the core of their footballing department together and not even Rangers could stop them in the cup at Ibrox.

They were the clear best team in cup competitions this year, evidenced by the fact they won both of them. They stifled us and made us look poor, we are still a work in progress who have improved tenfold since Jack Ross came in but don’t yet have the versatility required.

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Nobody is taking anything away from St Johnstone and their Manager; a remarkable and well deserved achievement in winning 2 cups.

Tell me though, why are Hibs always a 'work in progress' (which I agree with incidentally), and St Johnstone are dual trophy winners this season? They looked like relegation fodder when their rookie Manager came in earlier in the season. What is it that they are doing right and what can Hibs learn from them? Some things seem obvious - a stronger mentality, work ethic off the ball and tactical awareness.

On your point about arrogance, there is no arrogance in Hibs (the club and fans) having the self-belief and confidence to win against a club with significantly less resources than ours. Perhaps the arrogance is in fielding the same team and using the same tactics which have failed repeatedly time after time; somehow thinking that we must win as the opposition's players are inferior to ours?

You are right to say JR has improved us during in the time he has been in post and his job is clearly safe for now. The results in next season's big games (Hearts and cup games) however will determine his future. There is significant room for improvement but I hope he succeeds.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

That’s what we need. We need to copy the team that got relegated last season.

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If we were relegated in those circumstances do you think we would accept it?

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

If we were relegated in those circumstances do you think we would accept it?

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I see that we're back in the twighlight zone again...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

Exactly.

We laugh at Hearts for their big team mentality and persona but that's exactly what we need to have. The mentality of a big club and not accepting mediocrity. I couldn't care if it's our first time finishing 3rd in 16 years or 4th time in 40 years. We should be finishing 3rd and it was a weak 3rd this year.

Do Hearts or Aberdeen even celebrate finishing 3rd?

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I think this is the 4 millionth time I've asked:

CAN SOMEONE TELL US WHAT NOT ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY LOOKS LIKE?

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Originally Posted by matty_f

That’s what we need. We need to copy the team that got relegated last season.

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I can’t remember who it was, I think it was a boxer, but they said that they don’t get nervous going into a fight because it’s not in the ring where you improve, it’s where you gauge you are at your abilities. You don’t improve by focusing on the moment of truth where you are revealed, you focus on training and improving on the build up to it as that’s the time that you can move forward.

We are not good enough to beat St Johnstone in a single match on a regular basis yet. We are good enough over the course of the season to accumulate more points than them.

We need to train our players better in a number of styles, build that understanding in the squad of the ways in which we play and of each other and also improve tactically.

I’m confident that Jack Ross is the man in time to reflect on the season just completed and implement training, coaching and recruitment that will see us develop further in time. He’s an articulate modern manager who fits the mould of what we need.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

If we were relegated in those circumstances do you think we would accept it?

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Am I reading this right?

You say we need to adopt Hearts' winning mentality, then it's pointed out they got relegated so you just go off on a tangent about something else?

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Originally Posted by matty_f

:agree: it’s like their accepting mediocrity moments have ultimately paid dividends big style.

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This thing where supposed Hibs fans are laying into others for 'accepting mediocrity' i.e. finishing 3rd, consistently reaching semi's and final's (!) is becoming tiresome and also potentially as damaging as anything I can currently think of.

As incredibly frustrating (and disgraceful if I'm being honest) as our 2 Hampden performances were against St Johnstone it's abundantly clear to anyone with even half a brain that the club is far closer to providing us with real success than they have been for ages. We have good owners, a good squad, and good coaching staff- yet these hysterical clowns are genuinely advocating that we rip it all up and start again at this point? To read comments like 'if we don't win something soon Jack Ross has to go' is genuinely incredible considering where we we were prior to him taking over. People forget how quickly thing can turn the other way.

Instant success will never be something you can realistically expect in Scotland seeing as you're up against 2 clubs that have far greater resources. Yes we should have nailed a trophy this season and the disappointment will be there for a long time but we could also be on the cusp of a long run of being consistently good - something that has been very rare in my lifetime. This mentality a few seem to have of wanting to hound managers very early really is not a good thing.

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Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes

Tell me though, why are Hibs always a 'work in progress' (which I agree with incidentally), and St Johnstone are dual trophy winners this season?

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Because since the start of the 13/14 season they have had two managers, we have had six, along with all of the upheaval that comes with that.

We should be planning for the future already and getting someone like David Gray or Darren McGregor prepared to take over from Jack Ross ideally two, three or even four seasons down the line so we have that succession in place, an understanding of the team style from the get go and we don’t have that upheaval all over again.

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Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse

Am I reading this right?

You say we need to adopt Hearts' winning mentality, then it's pointed out they got relegated so you just go off on a tangent about something else?

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Yep - nobody's excels at losing court cases like they do. That's the standards we should be setting.

Hibs players seem to blow hot and cold. Do we as fans over rate some of our players just because they wear the green & white. No matter who our coach is and whether or not you like Jack Ross or not I personally feel it is the players fault for the inconsistencies we have witnessed this season. Other than McGregor & Gray we have no real leaders on the park. The coaches can only coach and it’s up to the players to sort it out in the pitch and win their individual battles. We are getting outplayed by teams that on paper we are better than. I don’t have all the answers but we need to sort this out for next season. Great getting 3rd but could have been so so much better and these types of opportunities don’t come around often enough.

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

Because since the start of the 13/14 season they have had two managers, we have had six, along with all of the upheaval that comes with that.

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They also signed 8 new players this season including;

Rooney
Middleton
Conway
Bryson
Melamed
Brown
Zlamal

Previous season they signed (amongst others)

Booth
McCart

6 of the 11 played in the cup final (one off the bench) so I'm not buying this "played with each other for years" - not sure who said it but it's in this thread and then people are agreeing off the back of it.

I'm over the result, I just like accuracy.