Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I think a lot of us would agree with you on that.
:aok:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I think a lot of us would agree with you on that.
:aok:
It's a socialist analysis, which we aren't supposed to mention in our money obsessed society. Accident of birth shouldn't be a factor, yet we live in a country where one quarter of our prime ministers attended the same school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50016954
The SFA will presently be trying to find an excuse why they shouldn't kick The Lying King out of Scottish football for not being a FPP.
Should be a hoot when the SFA publish the reasoning for their not guilty verdict.
Think for one minute he was the Chairman of Albion Rovers. He'd be banned for life.
Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever gonna be any progress...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I really love it when this thread appears at the top of page one! Hopefully this is another boot in the studs for Der Hun. I don't know what it means in real terms but hopefully very bad news for them and costly as well
Sevco need to be shot of him before it gets to that, they are a toxic brand with King at the helm.....Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Given the courts kicked Sevco and Sports Direct out in the hope that they reach an agreement amongst themselves with a promise to reconvene in January, does this not very much hand the initiative to Mike Ashley?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
He can pretty much say as much scathing stuff as he likes about Sevco and Dave King as their credibility is in the mud.
Can he not make pretty much any request now and say that the "cold-shouldered Dave King" has consistently acted inappropriately, as you would expect from such an individual, therefore the court ought to grant SD x,y,z..............
Sorry to disagree on this but whilst there has not been a law against a catholic prime minister since 1827, there has never been a catholic prime minister. Actions speak louder than words in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
Watching Stuart Wheeler on BBC justifying his influence on the Tories and Brexit based on his success as a gambler...if you didnt know he wasnt an Earl/Lord/Duke, you'd have no idea he wasnt born into wealth and privilege:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Just watched him on 'HARDtalk' where he denies being brought up in a 'relatively wealthy family' - it must've been sheer hell for him at Eton then !Quote:
Originally Posted by SJNB Hibby
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzywuzzy
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Especially when you see Tony Blair have to wait until he left office to become a Catholic.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...2/uk.religion1
Its bigotry pure and simple and it’s comes from the very top of UK society.
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How can they continue to keep going lost £11.3 million to the year end 30th. June
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And a wage bill of £35m now which is similar to Celtics explains why it’s getting closer at the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheshire Hibee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/foot...mpression=true
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The financial year under review was again a positive one," said chairman Dave King.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They lost £11.3m
What is their total debt now? Anyone know?
No idea, but Stevie G’s demands have brought them some European success, but it’s also a big noose round their neck if it doesn’t continueQuote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
No idea. But today's figures apparently are an improvement of £3 million on last year's losses...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
They also don't include this season's spending, £7½ million on Ryan Kent for example.
So I reckon they must be close to £30 million in the red by now...?
And they need another £10m for the rest of the season???
MorelosQuote:
Originally Posted by HFC 0-7
It’s not unrealistic that they could be playing Champions League football next season. They only really need to make the group stages to recoup 2-3 years of losses.
They won’t recoup anything, they will continue spending more than their income until they are beating and winning the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
Where do FFP rules come into this, if at all?
They’d have already won the league. Plenty teams have spent more than their income.....to grow their income.Quote:
Originally Posted by HFC 0-7
If they can’t win the league then they’re in trouble
Car crash figures.
Released on a Friday night yet again to avoid any serous questions from media or fans with half a brain.
They have gone "all in" this season to win the league.
Failure and they are finished - again.
Seemingly lost their last 6 games at Hampden, surely won’t be 7
They don’t. Scotland doesn’t have any and UEFA are toothless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedway
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The article says debt was soft loans which was converted to shares so does that mean their current debt is what they have announced? Have I over simplified that?
Debt for equity is fine, the now defunct Glasgow rangers did it for a while and the masters of it were the pre administration Heart of Midlothian. Unless the SPFL intervene it's all good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzywuzzy
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Any team in Scotland could potentially qualify for the Champions League if they spent tens of millions of pounds they don't have. The authorities won't do anything because they didn't want Rangers to die in the first place. They and the media have done whatever they could to ensure Sevco got into the top 2 in Scotland and pretend they are Rangers. Like nothing ever happened.
https://www.skysports.com/share/11851508
£5 million loan repayable in October 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheshire Hibee
Kin ell. How long can this continue?
Might be a new club but it’s still a basket case. Against my expectations, Gerrard has done really well. Without European competition they’d be even more ****ed.
While there's a good chance of Scotland getting a 2nd CL spot in 21/22, the SFA will continue to look the other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
The creditors of the loans are screwed. You can't shift that value of shares on an unlisted share market. There are no buyers for these shares as the business essentially insolvent. They will never get their loans back and they are essentially written off. Vlad did this with UBIG loans to Hearts with Ukio Bankas making the loans to UBIG. Rangers business model is not sustainable unless fans come up with £10 million to the end of the season to try and stop 10 in a row. Then they have another season to stump up £25 million to see it out. Unless they sell players in January they have had it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
[emoji106] Fair cheered me up that has.Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
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They have wealthy supporters who are continuing to subsidise their losses by taking shares, fully aware that these are worthless. The plan has been to lose a few million each year until European income plus transfer profits put them on a roughly equal financial and playing footing with Celtic. That can be expected to continue and they have some players who're sellable so I don't see the company collapsing unless further additional expenses arise (step up Mike Ashley).Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
How do you calculate a figure of £25m for next season? I'd expect the next loss to be fairly similar to this if on-field performance is similar.
meanwhile their utter low-life s cummy fans are never far away from the headlines
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/144...VG1LSO25NenyzA
Tommy Burns' son has hit out after a video showing fans on a Rangers supporters' bus singing an offensive song about the Celtic legend and Scott Brown's late sister surfaced online.
In the video, appearing to be filmed on a supporters' bus following Rangers' trip to Ross County on Wednesday, the former Celtic player is targeted alongside Fiona Brown, who died aged 22 in 2008 after a battle with cancer.
they arra peeple,eh
The Rangers make massive loss > The Rangers exchange soft loans for shares > Claims of needing another x-million pounds to see the season out > . Fans of other clubs get their hopes up that they'll finally disappear for good > They reappear next season... just as ugly.
...and repeat ad-infinitum.
European football gate and prize money is the key to holding the gamble together.
This season and last have been a success for them.
They will need similar European success next season to keep the plates spinning.
There is no turning back for them now, they are well out to sea.
It really needs Champions league revenue to keep it all going. Even with Europa league they are losing more than £10m per annum.Quote:
Originally Posted by CMurdoch
I’m amazed they seem to have people willing to throw money away to the tune of £10m a year so far but I would think that there can’t be many such people out there and they must surely run out soon.
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What happened to Dave King's fit and proper investigation?
Not sustainable. All a gamble to stop 10 in a row. They need to cough up another 10 million till the end of the season. If they don't stop 10 in a row they will have to double up for next season. Then they will pull the rug win or bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
They are clearly relying on progressing to the group stages of the European Competition they are in which Gerrard is managing with ease They are now going to be second in the league every year and progressing to domestic Cup Finals-given how poor the rest of us areQuote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
That all leads to increased revenue and prop ably increased Sponsorship deals
They will sustain that till Scotland gets second Champions League place and that’s the extra revenue they really crave
Loses Gerard at the end of the Season and make a poor appointment that doesn’t get them to group stages of Europe and Domestic Finals is best we can hope for
But Aberdeen are already feeling Financial loss of finishing second for all those years so don’t see anyone beating them into second place Like it or not we are back to Old Firm Dominance
Just don’t see your scenario unfolding
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They are already spending more money than Europa cup can get them. They need Champions league. Also need to remember they are not in full control of their commercial income. Mike Ashley controls their merchandising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronniekirk
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And we still get advisers on here who suggest that Hibs should speculate to accumulate. Is that not what Rangers are doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Every single borrowed pound is for one purpose. When Celtic win 10IAR, Sevco will provide the pyrotechnics.
What FFP in Europe? I know Scotland has nothing of the sort unfortunately but will UEFA not look at their overspending?
They are £15 million down per year but need £10 to survive till end of May. Looks like an explosion in wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
Basically the major shareholders are having to put up £15m to £25m a season just to keep this show on the road. This is not sustainable for these shareholders/fans unless some of the are multi billionaires which I don't believe any of them are. Their goal is stop Celtic getting ten in a row when they will rollback and start the player sales. They know Gerrard will move on once achieved or there is failure. Europe is a lottery to get to group stages and a bit like gambling on independence on the price of a barrel of oil. It is not a stable or certain way to forecast income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronniekirk
Looking at their squad, the wage bill won't be going down next season.
They should have sold Tavernier in the summer. He has made lots of high profile European gafs since then so interest in him and his value will have dropped dramatically.
They will save circa £2 million a season if they get shot of 37 year old Jermaine Defoe, however, they need a new quality striker to support Morelos. The quality of striker they will want won't be cheap and that player will want a similar wage to Rangers current contribution to Defoe's Bournemouth wage, so no saving there plus a transfer fee required.
As I said they are far out to sea with this gamble and can't turn back.
The backers will keep the money fire stoked for another 18 months at least.
If they have people who are prepared to cover the losses, is it a problem?
Is it really any different to the way other rich owners have backed clubs in the past?
:tin hat:
From what I've read thus far the people covering the losses are certainly wealthy but not in the bracket where the pockets have no bottom and the Parks for example are alleged to have said that their personal losses are unsustainable. The Ryan Kent fee along with the forthcoming damages to be paid to Ashley may well be a bridge too far for the current loan providers....Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Gerrard has navigated Getting them to the group stages so far hence I said if he leaves next appointment needs to dot he same or that would be a problemQuote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
George Latham one of the Three Bears is still putting money in is my understanding as are others So I still don’t see them changing tack in the next few years
What happens after that I have no idea but was of the view King would maybe look to get out and pave the way for New Investment and Owners
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King isn't going to walk away from the money he is in for and the concept that someone will buy the vast amount of shares he owns at 20p per share is nuts. The club is a financial basket case...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronniekirk
Ah keep forgetting the Merchandise side of thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemee...mpression=true
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We call it bad new Friday at workQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Yup pretty spot. Even Sevco they are flying close to the edge. Good to watch this one unfold. When will King and all pull the rug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Interesting read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Gerrard adamant today on radio Morellos will not be sold in January so be interesting to see if Board back him on this if significantly bid comes in
I think they will ,as it’s part of thier strategy to try and win the League and a Cup this Season
So what they spent in the January window will be more telling
They may off load some fringe players ,but don’t see them selling any prize asset ,unless silly money offered that allows them to get in someone else who is prolific scorer ,and bank money at same time .
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keep talking !....where's the daffy gif ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
'The simple reality of the matter, however, is that the funding gap to Celtic is essentially insurmountable within the time required to stop the ten unless someone is willing to consciously and deliberately lose tens of millions of pounds to do so. Dave King, the major benefactor of Rangers, is currently losing upwards of £10 million a year to watch Celtic win every trophy, and no matter how big a fan of the club he claims to be, that is completely unsustainable. Now, he must find another £10 million to keep the club solvent until the end of the season'Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Where's ma jumbo-box of Kleenex ??
A good report although I think the author misses one important point.For Rangers it’s not so much about Rangers winning the league but about Celtic not winning it.
https://twitter.com/lauralambert8/st...258089472?s=21
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...48e359ea5e.png
This is how FFP should work but apparently it never could in Scotland.
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[emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
This sets out the Rangers predicament perfectly. Thanks for posting.
Buying Ryan Kent was an act of reckless stupidity. They simply have to sell players or they are headed for another £10m loss this season. How long can the madness continue?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...268c797ef5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1c64909b1a.jpg
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. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f84c15296.jpg
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Can't help but think that if they hadn't cheated in the first place then HMRC wouldn't have had to calculate anything.
Only got themselves to blame for dying.
Well here we go.
Ra Peepl will now proclaim the whole thing a great Papist conspiracy. Never mind that the tax case was just one of many problems faced by Oldco and that Lloyds Bank has already pushed Murray aside in a desperate effort to protect their money by the time this had happened.
Even at £20m (the amount that it is now reported that HMRC should have been owed) they were sunk.
rangers fan media, in response to their poor accounts, has played heavily on the line of “if Celtic hadn’t sold XYZ, they’d be losing £10 million too,” without countenancing that selling players is an essential part of the business planQuote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
And, if Celtic don't score more goals than their opponents they'd be losing games.
Explainer:
https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com...ll-me-back-in/
Quote:
To the real story: why now?
BDO have been discussing the debate with HMRC on the two points of contention for over a year. It has been over five months since BDO revealed that HMRC had capitulated and couldn’t be bothered chasing these issues any longer. So why would the Ibrox PR machine suddenly fire up this story now?
It all looks like a well-planned, well-executed distortion of the truth. This far after the events it seems unlikely that the Sevco PR machine would waste such capital without a compelling reason. With going-concern warnings, cash requirements gaps for the coming year, a lawsuit lost over retail, and one more in the works for an Ibrox Disaster memorial plan abandoned, plus massive dilution of supporters’ share investments- there are a lot of issues that could be about to erupt for the seven year old club.
Whatever is going on, the “taxman killed my club by mistake” narrative has to be a distraction from something. Time will tell us what it is exactly, but with so many loyal and true bluenoses working in the press, this could simply be an in-house hack trying to clear the name of his now departed club.
I'm disappointed by the way The Times has presented this in its headline. There's an implication that Rangers really only owed them £20 million. If you look at the detail you'll see that HMRC have reduced their claim from £93m to £68m as a result of dropping a claim for penalty charges. The £68m includes a claim for £36m on EBTs, but there's a possibility that this could drop to £20m depending on further legal debate. Rangers fans are reading it as £20m being the total eventual liability rather just the minimum amount due for that part of the total sum.
On top of the base EBT liability there's interest for late payment and the small tax case.
One of the myths Rangers fans have is that their debt to the bank was under control when they went under. This is based on the debt having reduced by £1m in each of the two previous seasons. What they don't bring into consideration is that in both these seasons they had champions' league income. When they didn't even qualify for the UEFA group stage in autumn 2011 they were looking at an 8 figure loss on the season with cash running out before the next transfer window. Craig Whyte's reaction was to stop forwarding PAYE and VAT in order to keep the business running. There's £15m due for that.
Whyte once said that his biggest regret was not going for administration as soon as they were eliminated from Europe. I always suspected that he kept the club going as long as it lasted by telling HMRC he'd pay the PAYE and VAT by sales in the January 2012 window. When he only managed to shift Jelavic HMRC had to take action and that's why they stepped in during February.
The wrath being expressed by Rangers fans is based on a failure to take a proper look at facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
The idea that the Murray Group wouldn't have been able to challenge the assessments along these lines at the time is frankly laughable. What happened, "Sir" Dodgy Dave forgot to buy new batteries for his calculator? :rolleyes:
Arguably, the biggest trend in the 'information age' is the selective use of information to suit whatever agenda is being peddled. Scottish football will never be reported with a balanced perspective that weighs up all the evidence available because that approach simply doesn't sell papers or put eyes on screens. Add to that the sheer complexity of any financial criminality and you have the perfect storm for whipping up hysteria amongst the Rangers' faithful.
What it does show, however, is the painfully slow progress of the legal system - and how long we'll have to wait to see Rangers 2.0 finally bite the dust. At least there's a precedent now, though, for dropping them down to the fourth tier and a shadowy four-way agreement that can be dusted off to ensure that they don't properly die.
I think that we need to view the weegiecentric media as churnalists. They churn out what they are told.
They did not "drop down" to the 4th tier. They applied to join the league and were allowed to join in the 4th tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
it was a five way agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
This is, of course, true. Lazy wording on my part. I feel like Keith Jackson.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Again, true. I had all the resolve of a mainstream journalist and couldn't be bothered looking it up. Can I start at the Daily Record tomorrow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall
One final test.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
Can you spell "fenian conspiracy"?
How do you feel about lamb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
Think it's a capital F on Fenian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I'm a vegetarian. Is that me out?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
Watch out, Ally wants answers. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...iu88CaxEeOvbro
Out of your head maybeQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
:greengrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
'It's a difference of about £50m' -
Amazing stuff, both the Hun and HMRC employ numerous extremely well-paid accountants and not one single one of them on either side noticed this 'mistake' - add in the scrutiny of the MSM which isn't 'Pro-Hun' (mainly the English MSM) and I'm of the opinion that this 'story/mistake' is a load of schitt !
It is. There's a decent summary of what has happened on the Rangers Tax Case blog which, if it is to be believed (and I would take its word over the DR or McCoist any day of the week), shows that there has been no mistake. Simply that HMRC has given up pursuing a large chunk of what they think they are owed because it's a lot of hassle and the funds in the liquidated RFC aren't going to stretch that far anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deansy
Still, it suits the DR to stoke the fires under the victim card (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphors) and Ally "sneaky punch from behind; people have a right to know who is trying to kill our club" McCoist is the perfect, if rather wobbly, tool with which to fan the flames.
Look at the language used here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan62
And it's believed that the revised figure would have been easily dealt with by the old company and resulted in administration and liquidation being avoided.
That led to Rangers being out of the top flight of Scottish football for four years as they made their way back in from Division Three.
Straight out of Ibrox - 'old company' 'Rangers out of the top flight'.
At least ordinary creditors will get another 3p in the £ towards there debt bringing the payment up to 7p.So our Germanic friends will only have done ordinary businesses out of 93% of what they are owed.
I've no doubt now that the current edition of Hun will sue and win against the HMRC, then the Scottish Football governing-authorities will re-instate all the trophies/Leagues etc that the Hun were stripped of for cheating not the tax-bill .................. oh, wait a minute - that didn't happen - aw forget it - anyway, we've 'moved on' haven't we ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsk
They’re not really journalists but courtesans, as Frankie Boyle would say.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f83babe545.jpg
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Fools like McCoist and others connected with that toxic club will pay no attention to facts, but luckily for them they won't have to read it anyway as the MSM probably won't publish this info.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:faf: brilliantQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
How are things up in barren wastelands of NJ mate? Snow deep enough to cover your car yet? :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker
Nae Snow but it's ****ing cold. Had a game on Tuesday at 17 degrees!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
Definitely looking at a move to the Florida office :agree:
Been chilly here this week too but it's going to be back up to 25C next week. Had to replace the shorts with jeans two days this week 😜Quote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker
Lucky you. I'm in 5 layers minimum at the mo.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
Don't think we have a Texas office... I'll check.