SNP are lying b******s as well !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

We’ll done to the SG and councils. And we’ll done to the teachers in winning a good deal.


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The SG emerge with next to no credit. Somerville was beyond hopeless throughout. Little surprise when you appoint somebody whose continued presence at Holyrood owes considerably more to good fortune than ability. And that's not just me bashing the SNP. I've learned from experience within my own profession how hapless she is. I'll be amazed if she retains a ministerial post once a new leader is appointed. Yousef, I guess, might maintain an old pals act but really, no leader concerned with the good of education in Scotland should even consider her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

The SG emerge with next to no credit. Somerville was beyond hopeless throughout. Little surprise when you appoint somebody whose continued presence at Holyrood owes considerably more to good fortune than ability. And that's not just me bashing the SNP. I've learned from experience within my own profession how hapless she is. I'll be amazed if she retains a ministerial post once a new leader is appointed. Yousef, I guess, might maintain an old pals act but really, no leader concerned with the good of education in Scotland should even consider her.

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Am I right in saying the Transport Sec used to be a Teacher?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

The SG emerge with next to no credit. Somerville was beyond hopeless throughout. Little surprise when you appoint somebody whose continued presence at Holyrood owes considerably more to good fortune than ability. And that's not just me bashing the SNP. I've learned from experience within my own profession how hapless she is. I'll be amazed if she retains a ministerial post once a new leader is appointed. Yousef, I guess, might maintain an old pals act but really, no leader concerned with the good of education in Scotland should even consider her.

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The SG have got a deal though and the teachers are back at school. That’s good.
Have the UK got a deal down south yet?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The SG have got a deal though and the teachers are back at school. That’s good.
Have the UK got a deal down south yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Remember Ozy, we're not supposed to compare Scotland with other countries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The SG have got a deal though and the teachers are back at school. That’s good.
Have the UK got a deal down south yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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oh some will be angry/disappointed a deal was reached, doesn't suit their anti-SNP agenda :boo hoo: but, but, but

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

The SG emerge with next to no credit. Somerville was beyond hopeless throughout. Little surprise when you appoint somebody whose continued presence at Holyrood owes considerably more to good fortune than ability. And that's not just me bashing the SNP. I've learned from experience within my own profession how hapless she is. I'll be amazed if she retains a ministerial post once a new leader is appointed. Yousef, I guess, might maintain an old pals act but really, no leader concerned with the good of education in Scotland should even consider her.

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:greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

It looks improbable that they already are in power but how does the SNP losing a councillor to the Lib Dems weaken whatever hold on power Labour does have?

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The 3rd biggest party working to the budget of the 2nd biggest party and continuing to rely on their votes doesn't seem sustainable to me :dunno:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

Am I right in saying the Transport Sec used to be a Teacher?

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Yes I believe so. It might help, but it needn't be a pre-requisite for the role. Basic competence should be the starting point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

oh some will be angry/disappointed a deal was reached, doesn't suit their anti-SNP agenda :boo hoo: but, but, but

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Glad a deal has been reached. Been too many days lost already (try re-adjusting the routine of a kid with severe ASN to a three-day school week...not the most fun). Just pointing out that the education secretary was exposed as clueless throughout the negotiations.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

Am I right in saying the Transport Sec used to be a Teacher?

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Michael Matheson was an OT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Glad a deal has been reached. Been too many days lost already (try re-adjusting the routine of a kid with severe ASN to a three-day school week...not the most fun). Just pointing out that the education secretary was exposed as clueless throughout the negotiations.

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I asked a while back what you thought the SG should do. Is this settlement what your answer would be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Michael Matheson was an OT.

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I'll have a stab at it, guessing an Occupational Therapist??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

I'll have a stab at it, guessing an Occupational Therapist??

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Sorry :greengrin.

Yes, occupational therapist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

EIS agree to accept pay award. 90% of members voted to accept.

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Well done to the Teachers who stuck to their guns after the employers forced them out on strike when the money was there all along.
Join a Union.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

I asked a while back what you thought the SG should do. Is this settlement what your answer would be?

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They should have abandoned their delaying tactics long ago. The unions were always prepared to compromise (although I see the NASUWT are still digging their heels in) but were rightly scornful of the pitiful offer made before industrial action became the only option - as well as the subsequent 'offers' dressed up as an improvement. Coming up with an acceptable offer should never have taken this long and Somerville's ineptitude has badly damaged relations between the SG and teaching unions. You won't find teachers celebrating the fact they've had to disrupt schooling for so long, which makes Somerville hailing this as a 'historic agreement' stick in the craw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

They should have abandoned their delaying tactics long ago. The unions were always prepared to compromise (although I see the NASUWT are still digging their heels in) but were rightly scornful of the pitiful offer made before industrial action became the only option - as well as the subsequent 'offers' dressed up as an improvement. Coming up with an acceptable offer should never have taken this long and Somerville's ineptitude has badly damaged relations between the SG and teaching unions. You won't find teachers celebrating the fact they've had to disrupt schooling for so long, which makes Somerville hailing this as a 'historic agreement' stick in the craw.

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The only reason Somerville and Robison are Ministers at all is due to their proximity to Sturgeon. Pretty much universally thought of as deeply useless throughout their departments and client groups.

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

The only reason Somerville and Robison are Ministers at all is due to their proximity to Sturgeon. Pretty much universally thought of as deeply useless throughout their departments and client groups.

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Robison...jeez, another who will be flying the flag for Yousef. Mind-boggling that she got back into government after her disastrous tenure as health secretary.

Somerville managed to retain high-profile roles at Holyrood for around 10 years despite failing (in humiliating fashion) to be elected as an MSP. She was appointed to the post of 'deputy chief executive', a post which never existed before and has not existed since - and you can only assume this came about because, as you say, of who she knew.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Robison...jeez, another who will be flying the flag for Yousef. Mind-boggling that she got back into government after her disastrous tenure as health secretary.

Somerville managed to retain high-profile roles at Holyrood for around 10 years despite failing (in humiliating fashion) to be elected as an MSP. She was appointed to the post of 'deputy chief executive', a post which never existed before and has not existed since - and you can only assume this came about because, as you say, of who she knew.

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Somerville stood in my constituency (Leith) in what must have been 2011. She was a bit unlucky in that she stood against a popular and competent local politician in Malcolm Chisholm and in truth there was no shame in losing to someone like him. The SNP were rising in popularity and success at that time and I remember speaking to folk within the party - they acknowledged that it was an odd situation that she didn't hold office considering many people they considered to be less able did.

She then worked on the 2014 referendum, once standing but coming second in a Labour stronghold (something that was once a thing pre-2014) before winning a seat at a time when we were into chimpanzee/ yellow rosette territory.


Could you please expand on her humiliating failure to be elected as an MSP? On what occasion was this, and what was particularly humiliating about it?

Do you find it all that unusual that someone might be employed in a role by the SNP during a referendum holding decade, with that role not being needed at other times?

Has there ever really been a "deputy chief executive" of the SNP? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.

Is there any factual basis for any of the opinions you state in your post?

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Robison...jeez, another who will be flying the flag for Yousef. Mind-boggling that she got back into government after her disastrous tenure as health secretary.

Somerville managed to retain high-profile roles at Holyrood for around 10 years despite failing (in humiliating fashion) to be elected as an MSP. She was appointed to the post of 'deputy chief executive', a post which never existed before and has not existed since - and you can only assume this came about because, as you say, of who she knew.

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You seem annoyed a deal was reached

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Originally Posted by JimBHibees

You seem annoyed a deal was reached

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I'm irritated that Somerville is claiming any credit for it for reasons I've explained above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Somerville stood in my constituency (Leith) in what must have been 2011. She was a bit unlucky in that she stood against a popular and competent local politician in Malcolm Chisholm and in truth there was no shame in losing to someone like him. The SNP were rising in popularity and success at that time and I remember speaking to folk within the party - they acknowledged that it was an odd situation that she didn't hold office considering many people they considered to be less able did.

She then worked on the 2014 referendum, once standing but coming second in a Labour stronghold (something that was once a thing pre-2014) before winning a seat at a time when we were into chimpanzee/ yellow rosette territory.


Could you please expand on her humiliating failure to be elected as an MSP? On what occasion was this, and what was particularly humiliating about it?

Do you find it all that unusual that someone might be employed in a role by the SNP during a referendum holding decade, with that role not being needed at other times?

Has there ever really been a "deputy chief executive" of the SNP? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.

Is there any factual basis for any of the opinions you state in your post?

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I work within the City of Edinburgh Council's education department so let's just say opinions of her largely tally with what One Day Soon has to say about her in his post above.

As for her career path, this article saves me typing out its chronology:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbo...visible-woman/

I know the source is notoriously anti-SNP these days but with a couple of exceptions, most of what's in there tallies with what's common knowledge within Scottish education.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I work within the City of Edinburgh Council's education department so let's just say opinions of her largely tally with what One Day Soon has to say about her in his post above.

As for her career path, this article saves me typing out its chronology:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbo...visible-woman/

I know the source is notoriously anti-SNP these days but with a couple of exceptions, most of what's in there tallies with what's common knowledge within Scottish education.

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And yet there she is, the only education Secretary in the UK who has managed to get a deal to get teachers back to work. Amazing.[emoji122]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And yet there she is, the only education Secretary in the UK who has managed to get a deal to get teachers back to work. Amazing.[emoji122]


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I really don’t get why the employer is being praised here. It’s the workers who deserve all the plaudits, they forced the employer in to giving them what they should have been offered in the first place.
Join a Union.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don’t get why the employer is being praised here. It’s the workers who deserve all the plaudits, they forced the employer in to giving them what they should have been offered in the first place.
Join a Union.

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Probably something to do with wanting more money or better working conditions being a lot easier than running a country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don’t get why the employer is being praised here. It’s the workers who deserve all the plaudits, they forced the employer in to giving them what they should have been offered in the first place.
Join a Union.

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It's nothing more than bartering, if the government had tabled the offer that was excepted at the beginning then that would more than likely have been rejected. Both sides now seem happy with the deal and there's been movement on both sides, that's how successful negotiations work.

Why not praise both unions and employers?

The only point of concern I might have is a very low increase next year has already been agreed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

It's nothing more than bartering, if the government had tabled the offer that was excepted at the beginning then that would more than likely have been rejected. Both sides now seem happy with the deal and there's been movement on both sides, that's how successful negotiations work.

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Very, very slow negotiations which further disrupted kids learning and resulted in workers taking a substancial financial hit with loss of earning on strike days in the midst of a cost of living crisis, a workforce that is critical to economic recovery.

Even the imposed pay deals appear to have been unsuccesful. Afaik civil servants in the SG will walk out next week in support of colleagues working in other departments right across the UK - happy to be corrected if this has changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

Very, very slow negotiations which further disrupted kids learning and resulted in workers taking a substancial financial hit with loss of earning on strike days in the midst of a cost of living crisis, a workforce that is critical to economic recovery.

Even the imposed pay deals appear to have been unsuccesful. Afaik civil servants in the SG will walk out next week in support of colleagues working in other departments right across the UK - happy to be corrected if this has changed.

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Having conducted negotiations on behalf of a union, I would not describe these negotiations as particularly slow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Having conducted negotiations on behalf of a union, I would not describe these negotiations as particularly slow.

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Having a daughter in her last year of school, weeks away from exams, having already missed a fair chunk of education along with hundreds of thousands of others, I would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

It's nothing more than bartering, if the government had tabled the offer that was excepted at the beginning then that would more than likely have been rejected. Both sides now seem happy with the deal and there's been movement on both sides, that's how successful negotiations work.

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Thanks for explaining how negotiation works, that a real eye opener. :greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don’t get why the employer is being praised here. It’s the workers who deserve all the plaudits, they forced the employer in to giving them what they should have been offered in the first place.
Join a Union.

---

Nobody within the industry is praising the employer I can assure you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Thanks for explaining how negotiation works, that a real eye opener. :greengrin

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I obviously thought you needed it :greengrin

A deal has been reached as opposed to elsewhere, that's good isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

Having a daughter in her last year of school, weeks away from exams, having already missed a fair chunk of education along with hundreds of thousands of others, I would.

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Over a year. It really doesn't look like it needed to end up where it did. It took Swinney having to get involved a week back as well.

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Originally Posted by Rumble de Thump

Probably something to do with wanting more money or better working conditions being a lot easier than running a country.

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is Somerville running a country?

I doubt she or her team are heavily involved in economic planning, structuring and proposals of laws, or anything else. It’s not Nicola sturgeon who’s been directly involved in the negotiations.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I obviously thought you needed it :greengrin

A deal has been reached as opposed to elsewhere, that's good isn't it?

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It’s excellent a deal has been reached. Hopefully the workers involved in disputes elsewhere get what they deserve soon as well.

I won’t be praising the employer who underpaid the workers for far too long then forced them in to prolonged and disruptive industrial action to get what they deserved. And I will always say that regardless of who the employer is.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...reers-29425860

Regan's pledge on 'missing 600k'.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I obviously thought you needed it :greengrin

A deal has been reached as opposed to elsewhere, that's good isn't it?

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It is, but teachers I know aren't elated, just ground down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And yet there she is, the only education Secretary in the UK who has managed to get a deal to get teachers back to work. Amazing.[emoji122]


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Wales have agreed a deal and its worth more than Scotlands teachers. Although it is still crap and a real time pay cut last year and this year

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...reers-29425860

Regan's pledge on 'missing 600k'.

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What did Yousaf/Murrells have to say on the matter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I work within the City of Edinburgh Council's education department so let's just say opinions of her largely tally with what One Day Soon has to say about her in his post above.

As for her career path, this article saves me typing out its chronology:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbo...visible-woman/

I know the source is notoriously anti-SNP these days but with a couple of exceptions, most of what's in there tallies with what's common knowledge within Scottish education.

---

Yeah, your facts seemed somewhat different to mine so I wondered where you might have got yours from. “Hatchet job article in Wings” it was then.

I work in healthcare, fortunately with minimal exposure to the NHS these days but I do know that at any given moment the health secretaries at both Westminster and Holyrood will be reviled by healthcare workers (possibly why I was unlikely to support Yousaf’s leadership bid, possibly unfairly).

Can you name any minister for education at either parliament who was appreciated in the classrooms?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Yeah, your facts seemed somewhat different to mine so I wondered where you might have got yours from. “Hatchet job article in Wings” it was then.

I work in healthcare, fortunately with minimal exposure to the NHS these days but I do know that at any given moment the health secretaries at both Westminster and Holyrood will be reviled by healthcare workers (possibly why I was unlikely to support Yousaf’s leadership bid, possibly unfairly).

Can you name any minister for education at either parliament who was appreciated in the classrooms?

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Yep, that's a fair point. I just feel Somerville has been by some distance the most inept in her role. And that's saying something with Swinney as her predecessor.

As I said, you'll find the content of that article mirrors the opinion of many in the profession.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Yep, that's a fair point. I just feel Somerville has been by some distance the most inept in her role. And that's saying something with Swinney as her predecessor.

As I said, you'll find the content of that article mirrors the opinion of many in the profession.

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I think my friends in the sector say it has opened their eyes to the gas lighting, spin and political tactics deployed by this particular Education minister as being right out of the tory play book. She played fast and loose with spin and including things like the automatic increment probation teachers qualifying as fully qualified teachers get for reaching Fully Qualified status in the numbers she gave the media. The leaking of deals to the media before sitting down with the unions to offer them also has mightily pissed them off.

Angela Constance is the last one they recall being so unpopular - she was seen as just incompetent

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Yep, that's a fair point. I just feel Somerville has been by some distance the most inept in her role. And that's saying something with Swinney as her predecessor.

As I said, you'll find the content of that article mirrors the opinion of many in the profession.

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This part I wouldn't (couldn't) actually disagree with, and I'd bow to your superior knowledge as someone in the field.

As someone whose daughter starts school in August, I can't pretend not to be a bit concerned about what I hear about education. Scotland has historically been strong on education so it's quite alarming to hear the noises I do these days. In terms of the standard of the physical premises and every person I've encountered at her nursery I must admit I've been very impressed so it's not great to hear disquiet about what might lie further down the line.

My issue was with aspects of certain defeats being humiliating and some inaccuracies regarding posts held.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Yeah, your facts seemed somewhat different to mine so I wondered where you might have got yours from. “Hatchet job article in Wings” it was then.

I work in healthcare, fortunately with minimal exposure to the NHS these days but I do know that at any given moment the health secretaries at both Westminster and Holyrood will be reviled by healthcare workers (possibly why I was unlikely to support Yousaf’s leadership bid, possibly unfairly).

Can you name any minister for education at either parliament who was appreciated in the classrooms?

---

Estelle Morris was liked by most teachers. She had taught in a comp before politics and had also been a relatively popular junior education minister.

She resigned because she had promised her shadow Tory that if she didn’t hit her literacy and numeracy targets for pupils she would go. IIRC literacy and numeracy levels went up but not enough to meet the target. Matter of principle for her as Blair wanted her to stay. Also she hated the limelight of Cabinet.

Blunkett pissed off the unions but he oversaw the implementation of Sure Start and made a big impact on literacy and numeracy.

Sold our renewable assets like we did our oil

The Common Weal
@Common_Weal
·
💨 The January 2022 ScotWind auction massively undervalued Scotland’s offshore energy resources and placed a low and arbitrary maximum ceiling on the amount that competitors could bid for their development.

We need an inquiry to redress this waste

https://archive.ph/n5Izj
AT first, it’s easy to be furious, but there’s too much fury in Scottish politics. Anger is fine, it’s understandable, but more important is cold, calm, implacable scrutiny. And after scrutiny, if blame is apportioned, then there must be consequences.
We’ve just learned that Scotland is expected to lose an estimated £60 billion through mishandling of the much-criticised ScotWind deal, which saw tracts of the seabed leased to investors. If true – and the only means of establishing the truth is through a public inquiry – then SNP negligence has deeply wounded Scotland

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Sold our renewable assets like we did our oil

The Common Weal
@Common_Weal
·
�� The January 2022 ScotWind auction massively undervalued Scotland’s offshore energy resources and placed a low and arbitrary maximum ceiling on the amount that competitors could bid for their development.

We need an inquiry to redress this waste

https://archive.ph/n5Izj
AT first, it’s easy to be furious, but there’s too much fury in Scottish politics. Anger is fine, it’s understandable, but more important is cold, calm, implacable scrutiny. And after scrutiny, if blame is apportioned, then there must be consequences.
We’ve just learned that Scotland is expected to lose an estimated £60 billion through mishandling of the much-criticised ScotWind deal, which saw tracts of the seabed leased to investors. If true – and the only means of establishing the truth is through a public inquiry – then SNP negligence has deeply wounded Scotland

---

I actually think there could well end up being proper reason to be annoyed at the SNP for this - unlike about 98% of what gets chucked at them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8amd4lnZiFI&t=3213s

The whole TUG/STUC hustings is worth watching but from 52mins on there are questions about ScotWind and a public renewables company and taking the national grid into public ownership.

The ScotWind deal was a big missed opportunity IMHO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b55279897d.jpg


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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cycling-scheme

England says no. Again.


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https://fraserofallander.org/the-dep...whats-to-come/

More on deposit return scheme.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cycling-scheme

England says no. Again.


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England falls in line with the general view of Forbes, Yousaf and Regan :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

England falls in line with the general view of Forbes, Yousaf and Regan :greengrin

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Indeed. They'd actually be doing the SG a favour by blocking it. Save them the embarrassment of the further delays and excuses to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cycling-scheme

England says no. Again.


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Westminster, not England.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by archie

Westminster, not England.

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Effectively the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Effectively the same thing.

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Don't be silly!

https://twitter.com/kvisleis/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-64952272

NASUWT narrowly accepts pay offer which means strike action is at an end, at least for now. Good news.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by archie

Don't be silly!

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What's silly about it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

What's silly about it?

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Because the Parliament is for the whole UK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-64952272

NASUWT narrowly accepts pay offer which means strike action is at an end, at least for now. Good news.

---

At least for now?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by archie

Because the Parliament is for the whole UK.

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Once the four national boundary reviews are completed in 2023, England is set to have 543 MPs, Wales 32, a loss of eight, and Scotland 57, a decrease of two.

So with 543 MPs in England, what they say, goes. Even if every Scottish MP from whatever party voted against something that English MPs wanted, we couldn't win the vote. Westminster is England.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

At least for now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Best deal the unions could achieve at present and they have (rightly IMHO) accepted it. But I know there remains disquiet (not just among the more 'militant' NASUWT) that the offer still falls well below inflation. They still want to resolve that and reinstate the value of teachers' salaries.How that plays out remains to be seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Best deal the unions could achieve at present and they have (rightly IMHO) accepted it. But I know there remains disquiet (not just among the more 'militant' NASUWT) that the offer still falls well below inflation. They still want to resolve that and reinstate the value of teachers' salaries.How that plays out remains to be seen.

---

I think there's going to be continuing disquiet for a bit longer. The complaints about pay increases being less than inflation aren't unreasonable but it's harder to see where the money comes from to pay for public sector pay increases in line with inflation.

Below I'll link to article written a few months ago by a business coach who advises dentists (a big part of the advice he gives tends to revolve around abandoning the sinking ship that is the NHS). These are the pay increases that Sainsbury's are awarding their staff. The way they'll pay for it will be by increasing their prices, the prices paid by the teachers etc. Unfortunately the governments on both sides of the border just won't have the same sort of flexibility / wiggle room to raise funds to pay the increased wages to keep up with inflation.

It's a mess and I don't know what the solution is. All I do know is that irrespective of anyone's political views, it's not in anybody's interests to have ambulance drivers, teachers, firefighters etc on strike - we all need them to be adequately paid and happy enough being able to do their best in their jobs, and it's terrible state of affairs when they cannot.

Now I think of it - the taxes on record profits, then the income tax paid on increased pay for employees at the supermarkets will probably be a starting point when it comes to raising cash to award public sector pay increases in line with inflation.

https://www.coachbarrow.com/post/sai...e-in-12-months

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I think there's going to be continuing disquiet for a bit longer. The complaints about pay increases being less than inflation aren't unreasonable but it's harder to see where the money comes from to pay for public sector pay increases in line with inflation.

Below I'll link to article written a few months ago by a business coach who advises dentists (a big part of the advice he gives tends to revolve around abandoning the sinking ship that is the NHS). These are the pay increases that Sainsbury's are awarding their staff. The way they'll pay for it will be by increasing their prices, the prices paid by the teachers etc. Unfortunately the governments on both sides of the border just won't have the same sort of flexibility / wiggle room to raise funds to pay the increased wages to keep up with inflation.

It's a mess and I don't know what the solution is. All I do know is that irrespective of anyone's political views, it's not in anybody's interests to have ambulance drivers, teachers, firefighters etc on strike - we all need them to be adequately paid and happy enough being able to do their best in their jobs, and it's terrible state of affairs when they cannot.

Now I think of it - the taxes on record profits, then the income tax paid on increased pay for employees at the supermarkets will probably be a starting point when it comes to raising cash to award public sector pay increases in line with inflation.

https://www.coachbarrow.com/post/sai...e-in-12-months

---

Cheers.

Of course, if you're a boss at the Ferguson shipyard you simply bypass the SG and award yourself a hefty bonus:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-64954744

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

At least for now?


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Yes. HH can speak for every teacher in the country because he’s worked in the same building as a few and he knows they’re all still pure raging at the SNP and will strike again very soon.

Or he’s desperately trolling about the SNP again seeing as the Lineker thread has died down.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Once the four national boundary reviews are completed in 2023, England is set to have 543 MPs, Wales 32, a loss of eight, and Scotland 57, a decrease of two.

So with 543 MPs in England, what they say, goes. Even if every Scottish MP from whatever party voted against something that English MPs wanted, we couldn't win the vote. Westminster is England.

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MP’s vote on party lines not on country lines.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Once the four national boundary reviews are completed in 2023, England is set to have 543 MPs, Wales 32, a loss of eight, and Scotland 57, a decrease of two.

So with 543 MPs in England, what they say, goes. Even if every Scottish MP from whatever party voted against something that English MPs wanted, we couldn't win the vote. Westminster is England.

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The assumption underpinning this is that MPs for English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. That is, of course, nonsense.

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Originally Posted by archie

The assumption underpinning this is that MPs for English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. That is, of course, nonsense.

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If England wants something, it gets it.

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Originally Posted by grunt

If England wants something, it gets it.

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England isn't a block. I know you are trying to set up a Scotland England thing here. People in Aberdeen argue that if the central belt wants something they get it. Is that also the case?

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Originally Posted by archie

England isn't a block. I know you are trying to set up a Scotland England thing here. People in Aberdeen argue that if the central belt wants something they get it. Is that also the case?

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Ozy said England blocked Scottish Govt policy.
You said Westminster, not England.
I said same difference.
England / Westminster blocked Scottish Govt policy.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Ozy said England blocked Scottish Govt policy.
You said Westminster, not England.
I said same difference.
England / Westminster blocked Scottish Govt policy.

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It's not the same. I don't think it's healthy to reduce it to a Scotland England thing. Would you say the same about Aberdonians saying central belt blocked something in the Scottish Parliament?

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Yes. HH can speak for every teacher in the country because he’s worked in the same building as a few and he knows they’re all still pure raging at the SNP and will strike again very soon.

Or he’s desperately trolling about the SNP again seeing as the Lineker thread has died down.

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I can't speak for every teacher in the country (though my job has taken me from Aberdeen and Dundee to Glasgow and Edinburgh so I've probably worked with a few hundred down the years) but you certainly seem to think you can speak for me. If my opinions irritate you so much you can always block me ;-)

Pointing out that teaching unions are disillusioned enough with the SG to have launched their first strikes in 40 years isn't what I'd describe as trolling

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Originally Posted by archie

It's not the same. I don't think it's healthy to reduce it to a Scotland England thing. Would you say the same about Aberdonians saying central belt blocked something in the Scottish Parliament?

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Nonsense argument. As you well know, Aberdeen isn't a separate country with its own Parliament and laws. This is bordering on troll-like behaviour.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Pointing out that teaching unions are disillusioned enough with the SG to have launched their first strikes in 40 years isn't what I'd describe as trolling

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Genuine question: is the teachers disillusionment solely with the SG, or does their concern extend to their treatment by the wider UK Government (in terms of cost of living, energy costs etc)?

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Originally Posted by grunt

Genuine question: is the teachers disillusionment solely with the SG, or does their concern extend to their treatment by the wider UK Government (in terms of cost of living, energy costs etc)?

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Not wishing to answer for HH here (I will anyway) but I always find it really hard to sum up the thoughts of tens of thousands of people or make sweeping generalisations.

Within the teaching profession you'll have the ones who are avidly anti-SNP and allow it to judge their opinions and you'll also have the avidly pro-independence ones who will think the SNP can do no wrong and will wish to put the blame on the Tories and whitewash the SNP of as much responsibility as possible.

I don't work in teaching but in my line of work I'd fully confess to being an outlier, so trying to sum up the thoughts and feelings of a large group of people whose opinion I don't really share can be a bit of a challenge.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Nonsense argument. As you well know, Aberdeen isn't a separate country with its own Parliament and laws. This is bordering on troll-like behaviour.

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It's the very opposite of troll like behaviour. The UK is a unitary state. Scotland is not a separate country. The argument you are making is exactly the same as some Aberdonians make about the Scottish Parliament. So either they are both valid or both invalid.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Aberdeen isn't a separate country with its own Parliament and laws.

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Originally Posted by archie

Scotland is not a separate country.

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Bit of a Sunak-like political reply there.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Bit of a Sunak-like political reply there.

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I have no idea what this means.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Not wishing to answer for HH here (I will anyway) but I always find it really hard to sum up the thoughts of tens of thousands of people or make sweeping generalisations.

Within the teaching profession you'll have the ones who are avidly anti-SNP and allow it to judge their opinions and you'll also have the avidly pro-independence ones who will think the SNP can do no wrong and will wish to put the blame on the Tories and whitewash the SNP of as much responsibility as possible.

I don't work in teaching but in my line of work I'd fully confess to being an outlier, so trying to sum up the thoughts and feelings of a large group of people whose opinion I don't really share can be a bit of a challenge.

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… and there’s a genuine answer.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Once the four national boundary reviews are completed in 2023, England is set to have 543 MPs, Wales 32, a loss of eight, and Scotland 57, a decrease of two.

So with 543 MPs in England, what they say, goes. Even if every Scottish MP from whatever party voted against something that English MPs wanted, we couldn't win the vote. Westminster is England.

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It almost makes you wonder why nearly fifty SNP MPs bother with it

And take the good salary, the very comfortable pension, the healthy staffing and expense account, the chance to sit on select committees, the chance to get on national TV on a regular basis. Let alone the APPGs.

One SNP MP has to manage being vice-chair of the APPG on the British Virgin Islands as well as the APPG on pubs. As well as 55 other APPG memberships, including the Pacific Islands, Japan and Switzerland. How she copes with that I do not know. And all that for a vote that doesn’t matter in parliament!

As I say, it almost makes you wonder why they bother with it, given you say it is such a waste of time. Almost.

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Originally Posted by grunt

If England wants something, it gets it.

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I’m sure England wants the extra £2000 per head funding that Scotland enjoys, but I don’t think they’ve got it yet.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

I’m sure England wants the extra £2000 per head funding that Scotland enjoys, but I don’t think they’ve got it yet.

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If England want to spend an extra £2000 on their public services all they need to do is vote for it. Not a luxury we have.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If England want to spend an extra £2000 on their public services all they need to do is vote for it. Not a luxury we have.


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I see the point you are making here Ozy. Do nothing and reap the 'Union dividend'.

Be careful though, my friend. Some of your fellow party members won't see the big picture like you do :greengrin

The

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If England want to spend an extra £2000 on their public services all they need to do is vote for it. Not a luxury we have.


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Yep, and the Barnet consequential will immediately increase Scotland’s spending by an equivalent amount.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

The

Yep, and the Barnet consequential will immediately increase Scotland’s spending by an equivalent amount.

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Amazingly, if the people of England want to stop that too, they can do so.


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Saw Scotland is getting an extra 300 mil from Barnet in the budget. The more they idiots waste on nonsense the better for us

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Amazingly, if the people of England want to stop that too, they can do so.


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It's not the people of England.

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Originally Posted by archie

It's not the people of England.

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Really?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Really?


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Yup.

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Originally Posted by archie

I have no idea what this means.

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It means you replied to half my statement and left out the bit that was difficult for you.

But then you know that. You're just a troll. Bye.

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Originally Posted by archie

It's not the people of England.

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Well the people of Scotland don't hold the power in Westminster, the huge majority of MP's are English, infact 533 out of 650.

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Originally Posted by grunt

It means you replied to half my statement and left out the bit that was difficult for you.

But then you know that. You're just a troll. Bye.

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What on earth are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by J-C

Well the people of Scotland don't hold the power in Westminster, the huge majority of MP's are English, infact 533 out of 650.

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It's the UK Parliament.

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Originally Posted by archie

It's the UK Parliament.

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Doh! Really, it's a wee tad biased don't you think, where's the balance in voting.

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Originally Posted by J-C

Doh! Really, it's a wee tad biased don't you think, where's the balance in voting.

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No. It's a simple fact. Again you are implying that MPs from English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. At best that makes no sense and at worst it's a pretty ugly sentiment.

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Originally Posted by archie

No. It's a simple fact. Again you are implying that MPs from English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. At best that makes no sense and at worst it's a pretty ugly sentiment.

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English MPs will vote for what's best for their constituency/region/country, and so they should. That is not necessarily best for the devolved nations.

That leaves the MPs for the devolved nations massively outvoted and therefore dependent on the needs and wishes of the English people and their policies before considering how devolved policies and spending can be formulated.

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Originally Posted by Jack

English MPs will vote for what's best for their constituency/region/country, and so they should. That is not necessarily best for the devolved nations.

That leaves the MPs for the devolved nations massively outvoted and therefore dependent on the needs and wishes of the English people and their policies before considering how devolved policies and spending can be formulated.

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That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Not wishing to answer for HH here (I will anyway) but I always find it really hard to sum up the thoughts of tens of thousands of people or make sweeping generalisations.

Within the teaching profession you'll have the ones who are avidly anti-SNP and allow it to judge their opinions and you'll also have the avidly pro-independence ones who will think the SNP can do no wrong and will wish to put the blame on the Tories and whitewash the SNP of as much responsibility as possible.

I don't work in teaching but in my line of work I'd fully confess to being an outlier, so trying to sum up the thoughts and feelings of a large group of people whose opinion I don't really share can be a bit of a challenge.

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I take your point, but when you've been working in a particular industry/profession for a long number of years you can form a relatively well-informed view.

It's not as black and white as to divide opinions along political lines. Most rational-thinking colleagues are not so blinkered in their political allegiances that they would refuse to countenance criticism of the Scottish government even if they are staunch SNP voters. For example, the head teacher of the school I've most recently been working in is a passionate backer of independence and was a Sturgeon devotee, but regards Somerville as an imbecile and puts her colleagues' wellbeing ahead of how she'll vote at the ballot box.

Many, of course, simply don't get involved when the staffroom chat turns to politics. Like any workplace but particularly, I would suggest, in an educational environment, it's crucial that colleagues are aligned when it comes to performing their primary role as effectively as possible.

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Originally Posted by archie

That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

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That's it in a nutshell.

Personally thought it was a mistake to abolish England's regional assemblies.

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Originally Posted by archie

That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

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It is. Or at a more micro level that Inverness interests dominate Highland. It is beyond ridiculous that "local" government stretches from Ardnamurchan to Caithness!