Congestion charges and low emission zones

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Originally Posted by J-C

In the mean time the council are issuing around 15 new PHC licenses per week when the roads are crammed with PHC cars already, add in the council giving a license to Bright buses to operate a regular bus service to the airport from Waterloo Pl adding further to the congestion, this city and this council are a joke.

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Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.

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Originally Posted by tamig

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken.

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They did go round the city and they did a survey identifying streets where it would be a problem. They went ahead anyway.

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Originally Posted by grunt

They did go round the city and they did a survey identifying streets where it would be a problem. They went ahead anyway.

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Absolutely mental.

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Originally Posted by tamig

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.

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Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

I've just been in the transport museum in Glasgow this morning, how did they manage with horse drawn carriages, they are as wide as Hummers!!!

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I've just been in the transport museum in Glasgow this morning, how did they manage with horse drawn carriages, they are as wide as Hummers!!!

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Only millionaires had them so it wasn’t such a big deal.


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Originally Posted by J-C

Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

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Both problem streets now have cones down one side in preparation for double yellow lines being painted next week.

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Originally Posted by hibee

Both problem streets now have cones down one side in preparation for double yellow lines being painted next week.

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Best way to do it. The amount of times I've had to walk along the road with a buggy is unreal, scary. Loads of times the dropped curb is blocked, it must be a nightmare to be in a wheelchair in Edinburgh which is embarrassing. Hopefully it will get better with the ban

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Originally Posted by J-C

Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

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I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

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I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.

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Originally Posted by J-C

I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.

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Probably most of them, you’d have to be a bit mad to even try and drive down never mind park there if you didn’t live in the street, plenty more suitable streets for non residents to park in.

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Originally Posted by J-C

I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.

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Apologies, I don't doubt the bin lorry had to reverse up the (Marlborough) street but the fire engine was staged. It wasn't on a call, it was there to prove a point.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

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Cllr Arthur? Sure he's a member of Spokes.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Apologies, I don't doubt the bin lorry had to reverse up the (Marlborough) street but the fire engine was staged. It wasn't on a call, it was there to prove a point.

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Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

Yellow lines and parking meters should sort out a few of these issues.


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Originally Posted by J-C

Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

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Just because you don't live in Porty your still allowed to walk your dog wherever you want to in public & park your car there.

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Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy

Just because you don't live in Porty your still allowed to walk your dog wherever you want to in public & park your car there.

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Wherever you park, for whatever reason you should do so responsibly taking into account other road (and pavement) users.

If a fire engine or bin lorry can't get down the street because of parked vehicles that's irresponsible.

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Originally Posted by J-C

Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

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The people without dogs massively outnumber the people with dogs, unless it’s a day like today when everyone is hiding in their house apart from the dog walkers and joggers.

It’s mainly the residents that are blocking the streets and parking on both sides of the road because they don’t want a walk to their door. Yes there’s some visitors in the daytime but they’re not responsible for the streets still being blocked overnight.

I don’t understand the people who are going for a 3 mile walk but insist on trying to get parked as close to the beach as possible. I’ve moved away from Porty now but when I do go back for a walk with the dog I park at the other end of Seaview Terrace, it’s only an extra 5 minutes on the walk and saves a lot of hassle or the car getting damaged!

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Originally Posted by hibee

The people without dogs massively outnumber the people with dogs, unless it’s a day like today when everyone is hiding in their house apart from the dog walkers and joggers.

It’s mainly the residents that are blocking the streets and parking on both sides of the road because they don’t want a walk to their door. Yes there’s some visitors in the daytime but they’re not responsible for the streets still being blocked overnight.

I don’t understand the people who are going for a 3 mile walk but insist on trying to get parked as close to the beach as possible. I’ve moved away from Porty now but when I do go back for a walk with the dog I park at the other end of Seaview Terrace, it’s only an extra 5 minutes on the walk and saves a lot of hassle or the car getting damaged!

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My point is we already have the residents taking up a very large amount of space, add in dog walkers, joggers and general tourists out for a prom walk and the surrounding streets are carnage, Portobello has become extremely popular this past few years and it's bulging at the seams, I live 10min walk from the beach so thankfully don't need a car. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by tamig

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.

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The Lothian Buses 25 has been diverted from Lochend Drive onto restalrig Road South, Marionville Road then down Lochend Road South. The 21 still goes along Lochend Avenue.

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Originally Posted by Pete70

The Lothian Buses 25 has been diverted from Lochend Drive onto restalrig Road South, Marionville Road then down Lochend Road South. The 21 still goes along Lochend Avenue.

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I actually meant Lochend Drive.

Just noticed on EC trade parking permits, there is an annual fee of £50 added to the cost of your monthly permit for diesel vans, even if it is Ulez compliant 🙄

This won't help good old Edinburgh Council not helping the transition to cycling

https://discerningcyclist.com/worst-...42tgLB55ehtDUg

13 Worst Bike Lanes in the World

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

This won't help good old Edinburgh Council not helping the transition to cycling

https://discerningcyclist.com/worst-...42tgLB55ehtDUg

13 Worst Bike Lanes in the World

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There are plans in to fix the problem. I walked up the walk last night after the game and there needs to be better separation of pedestrians and cyclists. Easy fixed with some planter boxes and benches etc but def needs done.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There are plans in to fix the problem. I walked up the walk last night after the game and there needs to be better separation of pedestrians and cyclists. Easy fixed with some planter boxes and benches etc but def needs done.


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The fix should be to scrap it and redo it with the cycle lane beside the road, the way it should have been from the start

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

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Only one comment so far, from a driver complaining that it makes his life difficult. :faint:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Only one comment so far, from a driver complaining that it makes his life difficult. :faint:

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There's more cyclists in that 3 minute clip than I have ever seen in Edinburgh

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Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy

There's more cyclists in that 3 minute clip than I have ever seen in Edinburgh

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Yes, we have a long way to go.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yes, we have a long way to go.


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Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

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Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

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Or too cold and wet?

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Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

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No, I think it’s culture. It takes time to change behaviour but slowly it is happening. I’m seeing a lot more folk on bikes than I did 5 years ago.


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Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

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Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

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Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

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I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

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In the uk in the 40s 40% of uk journeys were by bike and Holland did cycle more with 60%. It collapsed in both countries in Holland down to 20% uk totally to 1%. In Amsterdam journeys went from 25% in 1970 to 48% now

We'll probably never reach that but we should be trying to increase it as much as we can not compare ourselves to the most cycled city in the world. Spokes records city centre cycling twice a year and they say cycling numbers have doubled at commuting times, I'm not sure the accuracy but it certainly seems to be increasing massively
http://www.spokes.org.uk/2023/05/city-centre-traffic-count-bike-numbers-keep-growing/

Under 10% of bikes sold are ebikes but they must do a much higher mileage. Must be a good quarter or higher in the centre being ebikes but that's due to most delivery drivers having zoomos.

If the city centre goes car free I'm hopeful the numbers will finally make a move from the low point they are at. If we can even get 10% off cars onto bikes then that'll be thousands of miles of less carbon emissions and the NHS will be delighted too

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

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London cycle lanes are absolutely mobbed. [emoji106]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


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I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

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Edinburgh hills would probably be an insurmountable challenge for the sit-up-and-beg bikes that many flat-city people ride, but with the right gearing on bikes the hills are really not that scary. Largely single-digit percentage inclines.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

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I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/w...embraced-bikes


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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

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I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2...en-in-the-snow


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

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He said they cycle more in Scandinavia which is colder than us and you continued to speak about Amsterdam the greatest cycling city in the world. 30% of travel in Copenhagenis by bike a massive number although its much colder and with heavier snow in winter, it also has and about the same amount of rain as us so that obviously isn't a factor.

Zurich a hilly city got its cycle rates from 2% of journeys to 8% of journeys in 10 years, it's also got almost double the rain we have that was all down to cycling infrastructure. Lisbon much hillyer than us has managed to double the cycling rate through adding miles of cycling lanes and pedestrianising. Antwerp has increased cycling 59% in 10 years, mostly due to the plan we are trying to copy in the city centre

Just comparing against Amsterdam is daft we'll never match that and aren't aiming to. We only should worry about ourselves. There is no reason that Scotland can't increase its cycling rates by double or quadruple like other wetter, hillyer and colder cities have managed

The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

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Infrastructure could transform cycling in Edinburgh. Just need people to get behind it. Need less space for cars and more for bikes.


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.

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Genuinely don't wish to distract from the thread or be a pedant but a simple Google search for "average Edinburgh rainfall" Vs "average Amsterdam rainfall" returns 685mm to Edinburgh and 850mm to Amsterdam.
I'm not sure why we always compare any town/city that wishes to improve cycling uptake to Amsterdam, but it does always seem to be the sole point of reference.
I cycle all year round and very rarely need to wear full waterproofs. Genuinely, I reckon less than 10 times a year.
Anyhoo, back to Congestion charging and LEZ's....

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

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So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

Tram passengers have doubled since Newhaven route opening. It's hugely popular thanks to more of the city being covered

https://edinburghtrams.com/news/mill...aunch-new-line

More than seven million tram trips were recorded by the operator in the second half of 2023, compared to 3.4 million during the same period the previous year.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

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The vast majority of cyclists already have the 3rd party insurance, almost all unknowingly.
Most home insurance policies cover first party property and third party liability claims if your out on your bike.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

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Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

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Originally Posted by hibee

Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

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Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

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Absolutely.


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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

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Damage to the road due to the weight of the vehicle needs to be factored in. Private transport in general is subsidised, we don't pay anything close to the actual true cost (health, environmental, infrastructure).
A lot of folk are quite rightly complaining about the state of the roads around Edinburgh & beyond, the collapsed culvert at Cameron Toll a significant case in point. However, few folk want to concede that vehicle ownership has more than doubled in the last 30 years, and over the same time, the weight of the "average" vehicle has increased 25-30%. Basic maths means the roads are getting 2.5 times the damage, 2.5 times the potholes, they won't be getting 2.5 times the funding (inflation adjusted).

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

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To what benefit? We should be trying to get as many people cycling as possible, not making it more expensive.

It would also be a near unenforceable decision. Are we suggesting putting registration plates on bikes? See the complete lack of enforcement in regards to e-scooters which technically should be registered, insured and the rider have a licence to drive on a road. Times that by 100 for the number of cyclists.

I assume kids go free in this plan? 😂

Just been to Dundee, ULEZ comes into effect end of May. Everyone needs to be ready as they become more normal.

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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They all moved away because of the smell of horse ****!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-e..._type=web_link


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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Damage to the road due to the weight of the vehicle needs to be factored in. Private transport in general is subsidised, we don't pay anything close to the actual true cost (health, environmental, infrastructure).
A lot of folk are quite rightly complaining about the state of the roads around Edinburgh & beyond, the collapsed culvert at Cameron Toll a significant case in point. However, few folk want to concede that vehicle ownership has more than doubled in the last 30 years, and over the same time, the weight of the "average" vehicle has increased 25-30%. Basic maths means the roads are getting 2.5 times the damage, 2.5 times the potholes, they won't be getting 2.5 times the funding (inflation adjusted).

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I'd wager the weather is at least a big a factor as well as the quality of the workmanship in building and maintaining the roads. Everything is now done on cost rather than value and the UK infrastructure is dreadful. There may well be double the cars on the road but they are much more efficient and produce far less emissions than cars back in the day. Totally agree with your point about weight of vehicles. I'd love to see how many cars drive through Edinburgh City Centre now compared to 30 years ago. The city as a whole hasn't seen the growth in traffic you have described and I suspect the centre of Edinburgh will have less miles travelled than the 1990s as it is so painful to drive through.

I am actually in favour of trying to reduce car use in cities and encourage cycling and lower impact forms of transport. The problem for me is that there is no real vision and no bravery to change Edinburgh completely. Everything is half-hearted and just causes resentment from both sides. Be bold and if you want central Edinburgh to be car free then let residents know win good time(5-10 years) and come up with a plan that can make it happen.

A few years old but since the Scottish Parliament was formed until 2020 car ownership had only increased by 38%

I seen people down south putting bat boxes over the cameras. Council can’t remove them due to bat boxes being protected.

Edinburgh's emission zone charges appear ridiculously high, another easy source of cash for the council no doubt.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Edinburgh's emission zone charges appear ridiculously high, another easy source of cash for the council no doubt.

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I don’t think councils have many ‘easy’ sources of cash?


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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

I seen people down south putting bat boxes over the cameras. Council can’t remove them due to bat boxes being protected.

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Bat boxes aren't protected if there is no evidence of bats. Very easy to check.

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

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I’d say the opposite. The charges are too high to provide a long term income stream. People with non compliant vehicle will avoid Edinburgh and the charge. Just ask Berwickhibby. It looks designed to stop the most polluting vehicles from coming into the city.
Should help Edinburgh council not be sued by a bunch of old ladies in the future.


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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

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Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research 😅

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research [emoji28]

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

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I think vans may be the main issue

Doesn't affect me in the slightest though

Smug electric driver [emoji6][emoji38]

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Originally Posted by Jack

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research ��

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

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My car is compliant, however my van is not even though it’s regularly serviced, low milage lawfully compliant with MOT, business insurance and taxed. The Ulez lack of dispensation will force prices up for the public …I have lost a few central Edinburgh contracts and the slack has been picked up by others…the extra cost will be met by the client.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research ��

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

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A guy I know has one. He commutes into the LEZ zone and parks in his work car park which is, unfortunately for him, not that far into the LEZ. He's ordered a new car but it won't be ready until September so I think he's getting the train until then.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

My car is compliant, however my van is not even though it’s regularly serviced, low milage lawfully compliant with MOT, business insurance and taxed. The Ulez lack of dispensation will force prices up for the public …I have lost a few central Edinburgh contracts and the slack has been picked up by others…the extra cost will be met by the client.

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I doubt the number of non compliant vehicles will affect price inflation.


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Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers

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One thing opponents have correct about this is it is the thin end of the wedge. Once the infrastructure is in place then it will be used to gradually reduce the number of cars that can use the city centre. And the area covered by it will grow.
And we’ll all be better for it.


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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers

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If that comes to pass, the bypass will be overwhelmed, causing massive queues and more pollution

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Originally Posted by McD

If that comes to pass, the bypass will be overwhelmed, causing massive queues and more pollution

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Or more people will get the bus?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I doubt the number of non compliant vehicles will affect price inflation.


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Try telling that to the couples booking music for their weddings, it has increased by £250 in 2024.

Mass building of cycleways and closing streets has created a cycling revolution in Paris

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...h=342a1dda3640

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Mass building of cycleways and closing streets has created a cycling revolution in Paris

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...h=342a1dda3640

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Yes but that wouldn’t work here.[emoji849]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’d say the opposite. The charges are too high to provide a long term income stream. People with non compliant vehicle will avoid Edinburgh and the charge. Just ask Berwickhibby. It looks designed to stop the most polluting vehicles from coming into the city.
Should help Edinburgh council not be sued by a bunch of old ladies in the future.


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I have a non compliant vehicle and live in Edinburgh.

In case anyone other than Oz is interested Edinburgh charges are exorbitant. Many cities across the UK are taking a different route. Some are exempting cars and only focusing on commercial vehicles. Some are charging the likes of £10.00 day (initially at least) for non compliant vans, higher for buses. Edinburgh seems to have the highest and most restrictive approach.

Speaking personally, I'll just drive around the ULez. It will make my journey longer and no doubt I'll use more Diesel in doing so and cause more congestion in peripheral areas. My car is a 13 years old and has only done 90,000k, I'll not be selling it. I don't routinely drive through town that often, so a bit of a compromise for me, but not that hard to overcome.

Nothing easier than introducing punitive charges for non compliant vehicles.

There are widely varying approaches to implementing ULEZ, Edinburgh has opted for the cash cow and a right good milking.

https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk read this and weep :greengrin

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I have a non compliant vehicle and live in Edinburgh.

In case anyone other than Oz is interested Edinburgh charges are exorbitant. Many cities across the UK are taking a different route. Some are exempting cars and only focusing on commercial vehicles. Some are charging the likes of £10.00 day (initially at least) for non compliant vans, higher for buses. Edinburgh seems to have the highest and most restrictive approach.

Speaking personally, I'll just drive around the ULez. It will make my journey longer and no doubt I'll use more Diesel in doing so and cause more congestion in peripheral areas. My car is a 13 years old and has only done 90,000k, I'll not be selling it. I don't routinely drive through town that often, so a bit of a compromise for me, but not that hard to overcome.

Nothing easier than introducing punitive charges for non compliant vehicles.

There are widely varying approaches to implementing ULEZ, Edinburgh has opted for the cash cow and a right good milking.

https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk read this and weep :greengrin

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I think charging £8 would be a cash cow as people might pay it. No one will pay Edinburghs huge fines.

I'd prefer all cars penalised but I'm sure that will come, hopefully the plan for through traffic comes

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I think charging £8 would be a cash cow as people might pay it. No one will pay Edinburghs huge fines.

I'd prefer all cars penalised but I'm sure that will come, hopefully the plan for through traffic comes

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Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

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Absolutely, which is why accusations of the council doing it to make money are wide of the mark. They genuinely want to stop pollution in the city centre. There are legal requirements on them to do so.


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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

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Yeah defo most will be the same very few will pay the huge fine deliberately.

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

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It’s everywhere across Europe and everywhere will need to start complying or else people will start to bring legal action against authorities who don’t.


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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

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Yes but Scotland is the only country in the UK that do not offer dispensation for vehicles to enter for a fee…straight to enforcement and punishment

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

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That's if you don't pay the £8 the other link said. Not that it matters Scotland are free to make different rules to England if they want, I prefer ours although I'd have restrictions for all drivers if we want to make a difference

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

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You can pay an £8 charge to take a no compliant vehicle into Birmingham

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

You can pay an £8 charge to take a no compliant vehicle into Birmingham

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No consolation for the people who have to breathe in the poisonous fumes from the offending vehicle.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Or more people will get the bus?


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More probably will, but many won’t, some may not be able to. And commercial vehicles won’t be able to get the bus.

I’m not against ulez, I’m just not convinced we’ve applied it in the best way. For the record, my car is compliant, and even then it never goes into the city centre. I get the train whether it’s for work (my office is right in the city centre) or pleasure

Am I the only person who wouldn't dream of taking their car into town regardless of this?

It's not designed for cars, parking and traffic are a nightmare and the only real motive I have to go near the centre of Edinburgh as a destination in itself is to get pished anyway.

Obviously there are issues for those working or passing through for work or commuting purposes and also those with mobility issues and so on. I'd struggle to believe that the majority of people actively travelling into town as a destination in itself aren't already using undertaking at least part of the journey on public transport or on foot currently though. It seems almost impossible from an infrastructure point of view that wouldn't be the case.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

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https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

ow much is the Birmingham CAZ charge?
The Birmingham CAZ costs £9 for non-compliant petrol and diesel cars. This is operated 24/7 on every day of the year. Larger vehicles such as buses and HGVs pay £50.

Just as the ULEZ, the charging period runs from midnight to midnight, meaning you’ll have to pay £18 if your journey extends past midnight.

How to pay the Birmingham CAZ charge?
The general gov.uk clean air zone portal is the best tool for checking and paying CAZ charges. It allows you to pay up to 6 days before and after the journey.

To check if your car will be charged, and pay the Birmingham CAZ fee, use the gov.uk website.

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

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According to Google maps you could do it by bike in 30 minutes. 🚲😉

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

According to Google maps you could do it by bike in 30 minutes. 🚲😉

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Close to 20 minutes by electric bike, heard Edinburgh is close to getting getting a new bike sharing system set up with lots of them electric which should be good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

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I live in Midlothian and my office is at Meadowbank. An average bus journey would be 90 minutes and cost the price of a day ticket, maybe around a fiver. My car would take around 30 minutes and cost about 2 quid in fuel(servicing etc won't cost extra as it is done once a year but brakes etc would have additional cost) and to cycle it would take around 35-40 minutes. Walking would be around 3 hours. I think a reasonably fit runner would beat the bus quite easily. I would rule out walking on time, rule out running on fitness and would only ever take the bus if my car and bike were out of commission. It is slow, uncomfortable and a horrible way to travel. Imo bus journeys are the lowest form of transport so I avoid if possible.

I used to cycle to work unless the weather was terrible but that stopped with the Borders railways stealing the initial part of my route. Still waiting to see the promised replacement of all the routes that were lost. I'm lucky to now work from home and apart from Hibs and any photography jobs I avoid Edinburgh as much as possible. If the city was designed around cycling and buses and it banned the vast majority of vehicles then I think that would work well. As it is it is the worst of all scenarios for all forms of transport.

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I live in Midlothian and my office is at Meadowbank. An average bus journey would be 90 minutes and cost the price of a day ticket, maybe around a fiver. My car would take around 30 minutes and cost about 2 quid in fuel(servicing etc won't cost extra as it is done once a year but brakes etc would have additional cost) and to cycle it would take around 35-40 minutes. Walking would be around 3 hours. I think a reasonably fit runner would beat the bus quite easily. I would rule out walking on time, rule out running on fitness and would only ever take the bus if my car and bike were out of commission. It is slow, uncomfortable and a horrible way to travel. Imo bus journeys are the lowest form of transport so I avoid if possible.

I used to cycle to work unless the weather was terrible but that stopped with the Borders railways stealing the initial part of my route. Still waiting to see the promised replacement of all the routes that were lost. I'm lucky to now work from home and apart from Hibs and any photography jobs I avoid Edinburgh as much as possible. If the city was designed around cycling and buses and it banned the vast majority of vehicles then I think that would work well. As it is it is the worst of all scenarios for all forms of transport.

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I used to walk or run to my old workplace and the latter was much quicker than the bus (30 mins v about 45 mins). Walking was not that much slower. On a good day it was a 12-15 minute drive. I chose to walk or run most days as it was personal preference, even in the cold of winter it was usually more pleasant than the bus.

I'm now about 12 miles from work so walking is really out of the question. (from a time rather than fitness perspective) I currently get the train some days, Brunstane to Waverley then on to Edinburgh park, which is about half an hour all in including connections if you time it right. Add another 10-15 minutes total for walking either end. That's about £4.20 return so on a par with the prices of the bus. Driving is about 25 minutes at the times I drive in, it would be longer if I was at rush hour but I start early and finish early. I've cycled once so far and that was about 50 minutes and was pleasant enough, will definitely do it more in the summer months.

I've tried 3 different buses and the quickest I have managed is 70 minutes not including the walk at either end. That basically means getting up at 4.45 if I want to make work for 7 or 3.45 if I want to do the gym first. One is a single decker only route as well so even at non peak times is totally rammed. I appreciate the need to use public transport more and become less reliant on private cars but public transport just isn't in a good enough place for any sudden increase in demand. Edinburgh has a pretty decent bus service as well, I've lived places far worse off so god only knows what people in those places must think. I will use the bus, there's no snobbery or whatever involved, I just find them slow, unpleasant and increasingly unreliable which means if I really can't afford to be late for something I would explore all other options first.