(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm no fan of Donald Trump but if we can welcome the leaders of countries such as China and Saudi Arabia to the UK, who are responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet, and on a scale that is far worse than anything that Donald Trump has ever done, then I'm sure I'll cope with the President of the USA being in the country for a few days.

Where were all the mass protests when we had the visit from Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia earlier this year or when President Xi Jinping of China came over in 2015? The governments of both of these countries allow atrocities to be committed against their own people on a daily basis and yet I don't remember their presence in the UK causing such controversy.

Some people really need to get a grip.

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The extension of that thought is that everything should be protested in equal measure, or not at all. With Trump, who is actively destabilising the US internally and the world as a whole, the visibility of his behaviour and the direct impact it could have is, frankly, more in-your-face than the undoubted atrocities committed by Saudi Arabia and China. However, global politics and pubic opinion vary to a large extent according to who is in the White House. Trump's approach to the world is therefore hugely worthy of protest. The old quote from Edmund Burke of "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" is the reason why protest is necessary.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm no fan of Donald Trump but if we can welcome the leaders of countries such as China and Saudi Arabia to the UK, who are responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet, and on a scale that is far worse than anything that Donald Trump has ever done, then I'm sure I'll cope with the President of the USA being in the country for a few days.

Where were all the mass protests when we had the visit from Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia earlier this year or when President Xi Jinping of China came over in 2015? The governments of both of these countries allow atrocities to be committed against their own people on a daily basis and yet I don't remember their presence in the UK causing such controversy.

Some people really need to get a grip.

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There were a wide range of protests when Chinese leader came to town...but to get your point straight..because not everyone who deserves a protest, got a protest...people need to get a grip, for protesting against Trump...that is your point?


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Originally Posted by bigwheel

There were a wide range of protests when Chinese leader came to town...but to get your point straight..because not everyone who deserves a protest, got a protest...people need to get a grip, for protesting against Trump...that is your point?


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Where was the widespread media coverage?

They weren’t interested as it didn’t suit their agenda

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

The extension of that thought is that everything should be protested in equal measure, or not at all. With Trump, who is actively destabilising the US internally and the world as a whole, the visibility of his behaviour and the direct impact it could have is, frankly, more in-your-face than the undoubted atrocities committed by Saudi Arabia and China. However, global politics and pubic opinion vary to a large extent according to who is in the White House. Trump's approach to the world is therefore hugely worthy of protest. The old quote from Edmund Burke of "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" is the reason why protest is necessary.

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Why would people have voted for someone who actively planned to destabilise their country? Have you ever questioned why people in the US voted for him, why do you think he has become the most powerful man in the world?

Trump's been in power for a while now and I don't notice any difference to my day to day life, have you?

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Originally Posted by HelmutSchlong

Where was the widespread media coverage?

They weren’t interested as it didn’t suit their agenda

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The anti Chinese protests were well covered in the media...so I understand your point - are you suggesting Trump is a victim of a media agenda?


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Originally Posted by bigwheel

The anti Chinese protests were well covered in the media...so I understand your point - are you suggesting Trump is a victim of a media agenda?


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Yes but did they have a blimp, it was clearly never a serious protest as there was no blimp.

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

Why would people have voted for someone who actively planned to destabilise their country? Have you ever questioned why people in the US voted for him, why do you think he has become the most powerful man in the world?

Trump's been in power for a while now and I don't notice any difference to my day to day life, have you?

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To choose just one of his objectionable standpoints, the impact of having a climate change denier in the White House is unlikely to be felt immediately, but may well be felt in future.

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Originally Posted by HomeTeam

I don't see the trans movement as being deserving of the amount of attention it receives for the media or virtue signalling politicians.

Here is the video i watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKfkzsgZQWQ

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Wow there are some get ups (costumes/cross dressing/whatever) in that crowd! [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

Yes but did they have a blimp, it was clearly never a serious protest as there was no blimp.

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[emoji23][emoji23]


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Originally Posted by johnbc70

Why would people have voted for someone who actively planned to destabilise their country? Have you ever questioned why people in the US voted for him, why do you think he has become the most powerful man in the world?

Trump's been in power for a while now and I don't notice any difference to my day to day life, have you?

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No, they clearly voted for someone who they thought would improve their lot and that of their country. That doesn't make them right. If you give desperate, disenfranchised people an easy answer, and an easy focus for their woes, then more in depth discussions don't get the light of day. The fact is that despite the rhetoric, Trumps much lauded tax cuts benefited the top 1%, not the masses. Wages have actually fallen under Trump.

Has Trump directed affected me? Yes, almost certainly, and as tariffs hit home absolutely certainly. The almost comes from the raft of legislative and policy changes relating to climate. Withdrawal from the Paris Accord changes the world, as well as many actions domestically. This will increase greenhouse gases, and accelerate climate change. On a much more personal basis, I have a daughter in the USA at University, so yes, his legislation impacts my family.

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

Not nice things, but why are people not out protesting against the Saudis and their human rights record. The UK has a very cosy relationship with a one of the most horrible regimes in the world. Because its not seen as trendy and being 'right on'.

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People do protest about our links with Saudi Arabia.

Are you suggesting we should ignore all the wrongs in the world?

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

I saw a few protesters getting dropped off in their luxury cars by their Mum and Dad's earlier. Probably the same people who protest against capitalism on their gap year before Oxbridge and joining a hedge fund.

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Aye, probably.

Monied people can't genuinely dislike mysoginist racists who grab women by the pussy and separate children from their parents and keep them in cages.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

No, they clearly voted for someone who they thought would improve their lot and that of their country. That doesn't make them right. If you give desperate, disenfranchised people an easy answer, and an easy focus for their woes, then more in depth discussions don't get the light of day. The fact is that despite the rhetoric, Trumps much lauded tax cuts benefited the top 1%, not the masses. Wages have actually fallen under Trump.

Has Trump directed affected me? Yes, almost certainly, and as tariffs hit home absolutely certainly. The almost comes from the raft of legislative and policy changes relating to climate. Withdrawal from the Paris Accord changes the world, as well as many actions domestically. This will increase greenhouse gases, and accelerate climate change. On a much more personal basis, I have a daughter in the USA at University, so yes, his legislation impacts my family.

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If your a steel worker in Pennsylvania then your probably delighted at his stance on tariffs, if your a non American in the UK not so. Who's interest is he there to look after more, yours or the people in Pennsylvania?

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Originally Posted by HomeTeam

The trump protests are mostly made up of middle class virtue signalling, communists and trans activists.

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"Trans activists"

What's the issue here? Trans people shouldn't be afforded the same rights and maybe a little specific set of help to make their lives a bit easier?

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm no fan of Donald Trump but if we can welcome the leaders of countries such as China and Saudi Arabia to the UK, who are responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet, and on a scale that is far worse than anything that Donald Trump has ever done, then I'm sure I'll cope with the President of the USA being in the country for a few days.

Where were all the mass protests when we had the visit from Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia earlier this year or when President Xi Jinping of China came over in 2015? The governments of both of these countries allow atrocities to be committed against their own people on a daily basis and yet I don't remember their presence in the UK causing such controversy.

Some people really need to get a grip.

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People need to "get a grip" for protesting one monster and not another?

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Snowflakes. The new "go to" response for people without arguments

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I made an argument, alright, but you chose to focus on one word.

Are you sure you got that right?

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Originally Posted by Dinkydoo

People need to "get a grip" for protesting one monster and not another?

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Makes you wonder what it is they really care about.

I detect some collective dummy spitting from one side of this argument. People appear to have convinced themselves that they hold the only true vision of what is right.

Yesterday's pitiful turnout suggests to me they are out of touch with what is important. It's the old, I'm the only one marching in step argument.

More worrying, any attempt to criticise the protest, is turned into support for Trump.

Can't speak for others but I was really put off by the sight of a group of effete, pampered, and privileged people strutting smugly about the town telling us how clever they are. That march was all about them.

Do they really think they have done anything for poor people in Tennessee trailer parks, or black kids sleeping in their cars in North Carolina?

Do they even know, or care? I fear that far from rallying people to their cause, they've driven them away.

I think the words virtue signalling have never been more apt than yesterday. The reek of righteous indignation was nauseating.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

The extension of that thought is that everything should be protested in equal measure, or not at all. With Trump, who is actively destabilising the US internally and the world as a whole, the visibility of his behaviour and the direct impact it could have is, frankly, more in-your-face than the undoubted atrocities committed by Saudi Arabia and China. However, global politics and pubic opinion vary to a large extent according to who is in the White House. Trump's approach to the world is therefore hugely worthy of protest. The old quote from Edmund Burke of "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" is the reason why protest is necessary.

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I don't actually have a problem with protests against Trump per se. As I said in my opening post, I'm no fan of his and I think some of the things he has said and reported to have done makes him unsuitable to hold the position of President of the USA. His conduct towards women as an example is shocking and certainly worthy of people showing their opposition.

However, in comparison with the leaders of the two nations I've mentioned I just think they are much more worthy of our disgust and I would just like to see as many people out on the streets the next time we welcome anyone like that to the UK as we saw over the last few days with Donald Trump.

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Originally Posted by bigwheel

There were a wide range of protests when Chinese leader came to town...but to get your point straight..because not everyone who deserves a protest, got a protest...people need to get a grip, for protesting against Trump...that is your point?


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I'm not doubting there were protests when the Chinese President visited but where was the media attention that the Trump visit has been getting? I don't remember much focus on it at all. China executes more people every year than every other country on the planet put together.

Their human rights record is disgraceful, people are regularly executed for very dubious reasons and people are imprisoned simply for challenging The Communist Party.

However our leaders seem to be quite happy to cosy up to them and don't appear to be questioning them on their human rights abuses.

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Originally Posted by Dinkydoo

People need to "get a grip" for protesting one monster and not another?

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Pretty much, yes. If these people are truly human rights activists and fighting inequality etc then why would you go to all that effort to oppose Trump but, by comparison, barely raise a whimper when two of the worst culprits of human rights abuses comes to town?

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Originally Posted by Chic Murray

I made an argument, alright, but you chose to focus on one word.

Are you sure you got that right?

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I'm pretty comfortable that I focused on the right element. The totality of your argument was "Just want to say to the snowflakes, that was pitiful compared to the miners strike and Paris 68. Of course the didn't have as good snack stalls, so well done on that count."
So not really an argument, more a tool to get a sneery poke in. So well done on that count.

[QUOTE=Sir David Gray;5465493

I'm not doubting there were protests when the Chinese President visited but where was the media attention that the Trump visit has been getting? I don't remember much focus on it at all. China executes more people every year than every other country on the planet put together.

I do remember the protests and also remember various news items about the visits. But none of these guys court the media or are as in your face on twitter as Trump. He absolutely craves attention and will be chuffed to bits about what has gone in over the last few days. He will claim fake news back in the US if asked about the protests and tell everyone who will listen that the UK really likes him. The classic of being recorded talking about May and Brexit one day and then denying it the very next saying it was fake news is unbelievable and there are idiots who will believe him. He was actually recorded by a journalist and then denied it as fake news.

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Originally Posted by Chic Murray

Makes you wonder what it is they really care about.

I detect some collective dummy spitting from one side of this argument. People appear to have convinced themselves that they hold the only true vision of what is right.

Yesterday's pitiful turnout suggests to me they are out of touch with what is important. It's the old, I'm the only one marching in step argument.

More worrying, any attempt to criticise the protest, is turned into support for Trump.

Can't speak for others but I was really put off by the sight of a group of effete, pampered, and privileged people strutting smugly about the town telling us how clever they are. That march was all about them.

Do they really think they have done anything for poor people in Tennessee trailer parks, or black kids sleeping in their cars in North Carolina?

Do they even know, or care? I fear that far from rallying people to their cause, they've driven them away.

I think the words virtue signalling have never been more apt than yesterday. The reek of righteous indignation was nauseating.

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OK, for the sake of argument let's assume that everyone at the protest fell into the pigeonhole you set them. Can you clarify if it was the protestors that "put you off", rather the subject of the protest? If you had been assured that the body of the protest group had been made up of your mates and those who had in your view appropriate social credentials, would you have protested the visit of Donald Trump?

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Originally Posted by Chic Murray

Makes you wonder what it is they really care about.

I detect some collective dummy spitting from one side of this argument. People appear to have convinced themselves that they hold the only true vision of what is right.

Yesterday's pitiful turnout suggests to me they are out of touch with what is important. It's the old, I'm the only one marching in step argument.

More worrying, any attempt to criticise the protest, is turned into support for Trump.

Can't speak for others but I was really put off by the sight of a group of effete, pampered, and privileged people strutting smugly about the town telling us how clever they are. That march was all about them.

Do they really think they have done anything for poor people in Tennessee trailer parks, or black kids sleeping in their cars in North Carolina?

Do they even know, or care? I fear that far from rallying people to their cause, they've driven them away.

I think the words virtue signalling have never been more apt than yesterday. The reek of righteous indignation was nauseating.

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I think that's a fair observation. I had no interest in 'protesting' yesterday but it doesn't mean I have much truck with Trump. As I said in an earlier post, though, I found the Scottish protests a bit baffling. 'Carnival of Resistance'? What does that mean? Also, why stand shouting outside Holyrood when Trump's visit involved nothing of a political nature? The guy was on the other side of the country and as far as I'm aware was here only to play golf at a course he happens to own. I'd hazard a guess that his investment in Turnberry has also done a fair bit for the local economy so I wonder how many locals were among those shouting from the beach.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I don't actually have a problem with protests against Trump per se. As I said in my opening post, I'm no fan of his and I think some of the things he has said and reported to have done makes him unsuitable to hold the position of President of the USA. His conduct towards women as an example is shocking and certainly worthy of people showing their opposition.

However, in comparison with the leaders of the two nations I've mentioned I just think they are much more worthy of our disgust and I would just like to see as many people out on the streets the next time we welcome anyone like that to the UK as we saw over the last few days with Donald Trump.


I'm not doubting there were protests when the Chinese President visited but where was the media attention that the Trump visit has been getting? I don't remember much focus on it at all. China executes more people every year than every other country on the planet put together.

Their human rights record is disgraceful, people are regularly executed for very dubious reasons and people are imprisoned simply for challenging The Communist Party.

However our leaders seem to be quite happy to cosy up to them and don't appear to be questioning them on their human rights abuses.



Pretty much, yes. If these people are truly human rights activists and fighting inequality etc then why would you go to all that effort to oppose Trump but, by comparison, barely raise a whimper when two of the worst culprits of human rights abuses comes to town?

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The nature of people is that they will be more interested in and activated by things that are either closer to home or at the very least more relatable. It is why when a terrorist bomb or murder happens in Paris or London it gets exponentially more overage than a more devastating attack in Kabul and why most people on the UK have forgotten or never knew about the the Chibok school girls and Boko Haram in Nigeria.

The USA is culturally and historically much closer to the UK than KSA or China. Trump is omnipresent on news and social media, and his actions make many people angry and fearful for what he may do. It is natural to react to that. That doesn't make the lower level of activism against others less worthy, nor does it define those protesting yesterday as being less than honest in their motives.

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Originally Posted by Dinkydoo

"Trans activists"

What's the issue here? Trans people shouldn't be afforded the same rights and maybe a little specific set of help to make their lives a bit easier?

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Your looking for something that is not there. I have no beef with trans people on a personal level, i had a 'wee cuddle' with a trans when on a night out in Barcelona but that's between me and you and a whole different story.

My point is that the media are trying to paint the picture that the whole of the UK and Scotland are against trump or say that vast majority think this way. I simply say that is not true. A protest made up of communists, trans activists & the virtue-signalling middle classes do not speak for the nation as the media claim. They are over stating the numbers attended, why?

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Originally Posted by HomeTeam

My point is that the media are trying to paint the picture that the whole of the UK and Scotland are against trump or say that vast majority think this way. I simply say that is not true. A protest made up of communists, trans activists & the virtue-signalling middle classes do not speak for the nation as the media claim. They are over stating the numbers attended, why?

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Is it a conspiracy of some sort? :dunno:

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Originally Posted by HomeTeam

Your looking for something that is not there. I have no beef with trans people on a personal level, i had a 'wee cuddle' with a trans when on a night out in Barcelona but that's between me and you and a whole different story.

My point is that the media are trying to paint the picture that the whole of the UK and Scotland are against trump or say that vast majority think this way. I simply say that is not true. A protest made up of communists, trans activists & the virtue-signalling middle classes do not speak for the nation as the media claim. They are over stating the numbers attended, why?

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The media claim there were protests, and report estimated numbers. I've just done a quick search, and everywhere I've looked they either just say "thousands" or balance the organisers estimate of numbers with the polices estimate. You are attempting to create a conspiracy that simple does not exist.

Also, just repeating "trans activists, communists and virtue signalling middle classes" over and over doesn't make it true.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Is it a conspiracy of some sort? :dunno:

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Well yes at a basic level conspiring to make the crowds and protests seem larger than they actually were.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

I think that's a fair observation. I had no interest in 'protesting' yesterday but it doesn't mean I have much truck with Trump. As I said in an earlier post, though, I found the Scottish protests a bit baffling. 'Carnival of Resistance'? What does that mean? Also, why stand shouting outside Holyrood when Trump's visit involved nothing of a political nature? The guy was on the other side of the country and as far as I'm aware was here only to play golf at a course he happens to own. I'd hazard a guess that his investment in Turnberry has also done a fair bit for the local economy so I wonder how many locals were among those shouting from the beach.

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Turnberry existed before Trump bought it, any 'investment' will have had minimal effect on the local economy. The investment was to 'improve' the course.

A wee bit about the Trump investment...



https://www.newyorker.com/news-desk/...tish-golf-club

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-37655823

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a7908001.html

And what about the 'investment' at Menie in Aberdeenshire?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources...p_and_Scotland

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There were many bold claims about the proposed resort with big numbers attached. It was supposed to be a £1bn investment, creating about 6,000 jobs. It was to include not one but two championship golf courses, a 450-bedroom hotel and almost 1,500 holiday and residential homes.
The massive scale of this promised investment was suitably beguiling. It persuaded the local inquiry team and even government ministers that the economic benefit justified the environmental impact.


Much of what was promised by Mr Trump has yet to materialise. By 2018 the resort included one golf course and a club house, a 16-bedroom boutique hotel and some lodges.
The Trump Organization says it has spent around £100m, which is about 10% of what was promised. It says about 500 people were involved in construction and that it employs 150 people, including part-time and seasonal staff.



“You can dislike the man, you can dislike his politics, you can dislike his public pronouncements,” “But there still has to be some respect for the office. I don’t think you have any choice but to deal with him.”

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-44795229

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Originally Posted by HomeTeam

Well yes at a basic level conspiring to make the crowds and protests seem larger than they actually were.

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Involving whom, and to what end?

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

The media claim there were protests, and report estimated numbers. I've just done a quick search, and everywhere I've looked they either just say "thousands" or balance the organisers estimate of numbers with the polices estimate. You are attempting to create a conspiracy that simple does not exist.

Also, just repeating "trans activists, communists and virtue signalling middle classes" over and over doesn't make it true.

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No you will find that the media were predicting 250,000 in London you would be lucky if there were 40,000 protestors there. Also the media ran with stories about the protests all week in the run up to trumps visit and the numbers were still. low