I know what your saying...but have you ever seen a flag indicating it at ER...They just accept it!Quote:
Originally Posted by RIP Bestie
Printable View
I know what your saying...but have you ever seen a flag indicating it at ER...They just accept it!Quote:
Originally Posted by RIP Bestie
It's unacceptable in any form but has became a more widespread problem in the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan69
I'm looking at the period of last 40 years, even during the darker days of the 80s, the bleak Miller years, the 97/8/9 period, I don't recall too many crowds below 8500 at er (and I just allowed for c 500 away fans)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnyboy
The point I am making is there is more of a loyal core who'll follow their team through thick and thin here at er, I've always been struck by that.
Even the awful football and gradual decline 2007-2012 did not see a crash in gates - it was a gentle drift (hopefully now reversed)
For the jambos, Now the tap's turned off on the financial doping in eh11 (and that the novelty of rallying round the Lost Cause is wearing off) I'm expecting to see fall off rates of 400-500 a month til their 7000 core is left.
I take your point but in the late 70s early 80s we were regularly getting crowds of 5,000 for run of the mill league games. Crowds had fallen off badly in mid 70s for a number of reasons I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbank
Cannot highlight cos on phone but I remember plenty of crowds under 8500 at ER even after we won the skol cup. Crowds even under 5000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbank
Average crowds were up around the 9000 though.
Herald saying possible new delays.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...eting.22813559
Like the last bit.
The club needs both Ukio and UBIG to agree to the proposals otherwise Hearts would be pushed towards liquidation.
Another delay whilst Ubig/ukio await more information from building companies offers perhaps?
Let's hope so :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby70
What is in it for UBIG to vote the CVA through ? They will get nowt. Are BDO saying that they are part of the same group so only have one vote ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Www1875hfc
'mon the pushQuote:
Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish
I know creditors of equal standing have to be treated evenly so UBIG cannot be offered anything from the FoH offer unless it is shared amongst all the unsecured creditors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish
But would a private agreement between Ukio and UBIG to share the cash on offer to get UBIG to vote through the CVA be considered acceptable.
I cant see that to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Surely the thing for UBIG to consider is as it stands they will get £0.00 then they have to look at what the assets of the company are worth.....
They have to take into account that the secured creditor will have to be satisfied in full (for the secured debt) if at all possible and if the are sure the assets are 100% not going to realise that value then theres no point in wasting time/effort in pursuing it (cant get blood from a stone etc.)
Therefore to me (and I'm no accountant) if the sale of the assets on the open market to developers for the gorund and perhaps FoH for the brand could even potentially realise more than the value of the secured debts then it's in their creditors intrests to pursue that as even getting say £200K back is far better than the current offer of nicksy:confused:.....
I would also have thought that UKIO'S admins have to look at it this way also but it seems from all I've heard they will vote yes anyway.
I'm no banker either but my understanding of a security against a property (i.e. a mortgage) is that even if they enforce the security and the sale of the secured asset fails to pay back the debt they CAN continue to pursue the debtor for the balance.... Of course the blood out of a stone comes back into play here....
Maybe I'm totally wrong, I dont know enough about it. Just my thoughts.....:greengrin
UBIG will get nothing from the CVA, and they will get nothing from liquidation.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
However, they may get something for their shares, which could only happen in the current (admin) situation. It may be that it's the negotiations of that amount that are holding up the CVA process.
I can't see how FoH's CVA offer included anything above a nominal amount towards the shares. That £2.5m will only go so far, and surely their priority (after BDO's fees are accounted for) was to make the offer for Tynecastle as big as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
UBIG have shares in HOMFC as well as being creditors. Could they agree to accept the £ nil on ffer for their debt like the other creditors but be compensated for the transfer of their shares.
Or it may be the whole thing is such a friggin mess that they need time to unravel it all and decide that the simplest way is to sell it all off to the highest bidder. Land to the developers, shares/naming rights to FOHQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Could they be tied up in legal mumbo jumbo from the shareholders who haven't received any shares?
It seems simple.
They will receive more through liquidating than accepting the CVA, therefore this should happen.
Your last sentence suggests that, in your opinion, a CVA, once the details are kicked around, is the probable outcome. If that's the case, additionally escaping relegation ( far from unlikely IMHO) will see them emerge from this in a relatively healthier state than most of us were hoping for/expected. Please tell me I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I to hope that your wrong and dont get it.. if liquidated they get nothingQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Are bdo charges so high....my hearts friends have totally changed track
And are covinced they are finished...you seem on the other hand seem to
Think they will be fine now...
Do we know for sure if the vote has been delayed again?
I am still on the fence on whether the CVA will be accepted. However, what I am trying to say is that, if UKIO are happy with the CVA proposal, then it's down to UBIG. If UBIG can get something acceptable for their shares, then the CVA will go through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
The big caveat on that, of course, is that it needs UKIO to be happy with the CVA. I have no notion of whether they are or not.
I've always thought that survival in the SPFL would be a major factor in their future health. I think Killie are as likely candidates as the Jambos for the drop. A CVA and a Houdiniessque escape from relegation will give them a lot of hope for the future, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenworld
Fair enough agree with all of that im going to go with my gut feelingQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
On this now because no one really knows the outcome and liquidation it is.
Its my Christmas present to me .
:flag: :flag:
Merry Christmas. :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenworld
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Few posters on brokeback claiming ukio will accept according to the CVA document, also Garry Halliday from FoH apparently claiming the cva will be accepted by Ukio. Pinch of salt of course but they are generally only worried about UBIG's vote.
I keep hearing this from some folk, yet the stats don't bare it out? The gimps have only made 3 points up so far, and we are now getting to the stage in the season where the games come thick and fast, and injuries and suspensions kick in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
The pitches will get heavier, and their squad is thin now, how will it fare when they get injuries and suspensions?
The way the form for both clubs has gone, they'd need to play something like a 75 game season to make the points up at the current rate, not even accounting for Kilmarnock strengthening their squad in January too.
They are down, and the only reason i think people think they will escape relegation is because of their results against us.
Keep the faith. :greengrin
Why are people saying UBIG/UKIO will get nothing if Hearts are liquidated?
Surely they can then sell tynie and all the other smaller parts for far more than the 2.5m foh are offering.
It's a no brainer
UBIG won't get anything in a liquidation. They are an unsecured creditor and shareholder. Once the secured creditor (UKIO) gets the proceeds from the sale of Tynie, there will be nothing left for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
Looking that way herald and een reporting itQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Even if the CVA is agreed tomorrow then there is a 30 day cooling off period. That takes you to the end of December. That doesn't mean they exit administration then - there will be months of work to do (see Dunfermline).
They won't be signing anyone in the January transfer window - even if they could afford to do so. And there's a chance they may still be in administration at the end of season with another 15 point deduction for next season in the pipeline.
They're down - and they know it.
Yes.But i'd say UKIO could get much more money by not Accepting the CVA.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
not sure why people are saying an approved CVA will see them through this.
Far from it, in fact for me, the fun just begins if they get a CVA. They will be relegated this year, no doubt. This, along with their stadium, running costs and drop in turnover will put the club through the ringer. I will not be surprised if a CVA is approved, HMFC find themselves in another administration in the next 12/24 months.
The elephant in the room for me is that stadium, it will be their downfall.
It's not entirely impossible Killie could be relegated but "as likely candidates"? Have a word with yourself! They're 12 points ahead, don't have a wafer thin squad and can sign new players in the upcoming window. Hearts have spawned a couple of results against Aberdeen and were gifted a win against a bottling us but in general they're absolutely, utterly pish and have failed to win every game that's looked like a 6 pointer. Even if they squeak through a CVA it's realistically going to be into February or March before they're offishully out of admin and can sign anyone by which time they'll be all but certainly down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Cheer up. :wink:
Looking that way herald and een reporting itQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
:top marks, agreed, they are barely better off than 14 games ago, they now have 24 left to make up 12 points..... I think people are still blinded by the fact that they are oon -3 from -15.... Put it this way, if Hearts had started on level pegging they would be on 12 points and one defeat away from being bottom anyway.....Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Draw's simply arent good enough for them and they are chucking matches left righ and centre.... They've had two very good league results in beating us and then overcoming a 10 man Aberdeen who should have been out of sight by half time and this is a common thread to most of their games. Their opponents are generally miles better than them but a siege mentality is getting them draws (as I said no good)..... at present....
Once they are really into the youth team through injuries & suspensions in December & January they will be rolled over by many teams and if Killie & Ross County pick up a couple of wins each then they will be more than 15 points behind again (IMO)......
Simple maths over the next five games (50% of the season done) tells me that the very BEST case scenario is they could technically be 3 points ahead of Killie in 11th but for that to happen they need to win every game and Killie lose every game.... The latter is possible but the former?????? Nah:greengrin
Tend to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin80
I see it as them being deid, or crippled.
Killie were in a pretty dire way financially. Any chance they could go into administration? If not, Hearts will struggle to make up 12 points.
The derby game in January is HUGE now (for them anyway) and we can certainly help the Jumbos to get relegated by defeating them on January 2nd. COME ON!Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
i hope Killie do the same as what the Jumbos did and hold off as late as possible to go into Administration, IF they do. If it worked for Jumbos then it will work for Kilmarnock FC :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve20
But i thought the private members already know they're dead, why's it still up for debate ? or was that more smoke with no fire.
Killie received a £1m cash injection last month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve20
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...season-2356141
:agree:Killie will gather points over the next 5 games, be it a win, a couple of draws whatever. they have a first class experienced striker, the gorgie mob don't. the Dingwall club will pick up points too, certainly in the highlands where clubs tend to struggle in the winter, after a long trek up there (we certainly have ,for years).Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbySpurs
I've taken your advice and had a quiet word with my pessimist self, but he still couldn't convince me that their fat lady had finished her sQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
swansong. My fears were not allayed the other day, also, when the Killie captain, Pascalli was rabitting on about Killie's weaknesses, bad attitude and the danger of them being automatically relegated. You won't hear that coming from the Jambo dressing room, I'll bet. I take on board what you think, but I'm not holding my breath.
Killie got a big cash injection.from a local businessman a few months ago so there shouldn't be any worry for them going into admin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve20
Excellent. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
A Killie businessman recently invested £1m in them. Should see them ok till the end of the season.
:hmmm: that's an old one, can't see why you are bringing it up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStokeprano
GREAT, hopefully seals the Yams fate.
At the moment Hearts are odds-on favourites for the drop. Of course Killie may join them if they are in a play off but the main issue for them is staying out of administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
This morning I was talking to a surveyor who is "in the know(ish)" and they reckon that someone probably has made a bid. He also reckons that the Lithuanian end is losing patience and will pull the plug soon. Due to his connections I trust him and, lets be honest, I want it to be true.
Just asking a question if that's okay? They're was info and folk singing and dancing on this thread last week trying to get folk to sign up, so they must be dead or as good as dead already? Simple assumption I've made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
If you want to send me a tenner I can tell you to "trust me, the CVA won't be accepted" too. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyStokeprano
(I have no idea whether it will or not, btw, but my guess is it's at least in the balance, hence the delay.)
A friend of chairman at Killie just pumped a large sum of cash into Killie so Admin seems unlikely.Hertz on the other hand, in the words of Private Fraser, are DOOOOMED.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia Na Eir
Local businessman Billy Bowie put money into the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by southsider
I hope they pull through, I really do.Quote:
Originally Posted by southsider
I understand that there will be an announcement from Hearts this afternoon 4.30pm as to whether vote will take place tomorrow or be postponed again.
Well over on weoweittoourselves.net they are already saying meeting goes ahead
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Can we play FoH catchphrase bingo on I am an MP's response?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hart RIP
'We are so grateful to those Hearts supporters who have already signed up, but for those who have not yet done so, or those who can afford to give a bit more, WHAT THE ****** IS STOPPING YOU??! I'VE GOT TEARS OF PRIDE HERE BUT ALSO HOT TEARS OF PANICKY FEAR!!! DON'T YOU LIKE ME?? DON'T YOU BELIEVE??'
BBC reported Locke as saying the meeting tomorrow as being more important (to the future of Hearts) than the cup tie against Celtc on Sunday. So it looks like there will be a meeting, whether anything is decided though is another matter.
Well done Gary, he seems to be getting a grasp of things at long last. Has anyone explained the transfer embargo to him yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...oughed-2362971Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
This is fun. My fingers are crossed for a CVA - more enjoyment and drags the farce out till it inevitably hits the rocks.
Immediate liquidation means those half-wits have the satisfaction of causing disruption to the entire fixture card and beating us in the last two derbies until they give us a chance for revenge by dragging their sorry backsides through the entire league system in about 10-20 years time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
He sounds like a dream investor for any football club. Rooted in the local community, wealthy, and committed for the long-term. Hopefully Kilmarnock will now start to turn things around.Quote:
Bowie was planning to scale down his workload and travel the world when he reached his 50th birthday in three years’ time – the world that was closed off to him when he was too busy building a multi-million pound business to notice it existed.
He said: “It was my plan to slow down but now it’s my intention to be with Kilmarnock long enough for my sons, Ewan and William, who are aged six and nine respectively, to follow in my footsteps.
“I’ve put in more than a million pounds this week because I want to put an end to negativity as a down payment on a better future.
“I’m passionate about keeping my business going in the Kilmarnock area. Only 20 of my lorries are based there and the rest operate in England but I don’t want to see Ayrshire damaged. That’s why I want to devote as much attention as possible to the club.
“Michael can’t do it alone and he’s been under severe pressure for years.
“I don’t want to hear the word ‘administration’ because I don’t believe it’s necessary. The club has debt but it’s being serviced and rumours about Kilmarnock aren’t helpful.”
For anyone to invest in any Scottish club at a provincial level to the extent Bowie has done is astonishing in these financially-troubled times for the game.
But to put more than £1m into one where the fans are in a seemingly permanent state of revolt, and where the team hasn’t won a single game this season, makes Bowie’s investment all the more remarkable.
The good news for the supporters who are willing to give him a chance is that he’s in it for the long haul.
He said: “I want to help turn this club round for the community. I put career before family life for a long time and now I see the enjoyment my wife and boys are getting out of my involvement with Killie.
“I used to work seven days a week and know what it’s like to sleep in my truck at the side of a road.
“I still jump into a truck if there’s a need and I won’t be afraid to get my hands dirty when it comes to grafting on Killie’s behalf.
“My everyday business is trying but not trying enough. Getting involved at Rugby Park has put the butterflies back in my stomach once again.”
How's it going over in Gorgie, Yams? :na na:
Either way Bob it means they are ****ed. I want the later - liquidation . As for fixture list it just means a team has a free week every so many weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
Talk about selfishness - wonder what medals has to say bout that.
Can we drop the puns before they get going please :wink:
Ta.
Not sure he's fully grasped it yet, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...ture-1-3212110Quote:
“We don’t know what the outcome of that will be – we’re all keeping our fingers crossed that things go our way – but the main thing for me is still the football. The club and the outcome of the meeting clearly means so much to everyone involved, from the players and the fans through to the coaches and the office staff.
The CVA was only ever delayed to let the new admins get their feet in the door at UBIG.
I think what's key here is we remember an agreed CVA (and consequently FoH) is no picnic. It doesn't make it all 'go away' and we still have reasons to be cheerful. FoH have already stated they haven't budgeted for players should they take control and relegation is a big possibility - a team such as Hearts as we know/known them won't exist CVA or not, its important we remember that before we assume a CVA means 'happy ending'.
Summary - CVA or not Hearts still suffer more than any of us have seen them suffer before.
Is the meeting going ahead tomorrow?
Sorry folks, puns removed.
People are trying to find out about tomorrow's meeting, not David Bowie's back catalogue :wink:
There's been nothing so far to say it isn't!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
I wonder what spin the FOH - who have been rather quite of late - will put on any further delay.
The boy called pbtcal?? On kb with a one liner 'meeting on tomorrow' no source or quotes though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Think we can assume it is.
personally expect to see it approved with a tsunami of nonsense unleashed from both sets of fans.
It'll be on then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
And David Southern prefers him not to say where he gets his info from :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Good or Bad News then ? and who for.
FoH twitter a few minutes ago.
Quote:
Lots of questions re tomorrow. There is no confirmation re meetings. BDO still locked in legal discussions. We hope to know tonight...
Quote:
...but it may yet be tomorrow before we are clear. Everyone at BDO working so hard. Fuller update when we know.
Hmm. Interesting. Not even they knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Dunderhall
CVA bingo card
CVA Agreed "A new beginning"
CVA Rejected "This is not the end"
CVA Agreed "Always confident"
CVA Rejected "The odds were against us"
CVA Agreed "Tynecastle is priceless"
CVA Rejected "Tynecastle is not worth a hoot"
CVA Agreed "Important to continue unbroken"
CVA Rejected "Important to continue"
CVA Agreed "Pledge"
CVA Rejected "Pledge"
He gets spoon fed from Southern then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
They out buying cigars and putting bubbly in the fridge.
Some reckon this place will be a hoot and we've back-pedalled and are happy with CVA.
They all think everything will be fine and debt free
Hey thanks for this. You're a star man. OopsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dunderhall
Let them think that. They can't be debt free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo
We know that. Funny thing if they agree the CVA but don't give them the stadium and sell it to a property developer. (Can this be done??)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Crab
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo
If there is a CVA, FOH own the company and hence its assets.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo
If they get the CVA through, irrespective of any debt they still have to pay to pay off, they will have shed approximately £25m in debt. Not a bad day in anyones book.
CWG cheers didn't think they could but got confused.... Shame really.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
When you think of it though the Liths aren't getting much after BDO takes their fees.
(Really hoping it's pull the plug time- thee best Xmas present ever)
Thanksgiving here today in the USA. Hoping for a Christmas Day day feeling tomorrow. Dare to dream........
That's the most annoying thing bout it all. £25 million dodging their dues and fleecing the taxman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Club with no shame right enough.
Cheers for that guys
BDO hadn't heard if the meeting was going ahead as of lunchtime today. They tried to find out this morning and got no reply. UKIOs admin is cooperating but contact with UBIGS admin has been very minimal.
PS. This "debt free" rubbish shows just how thick their support is. There is currently no outcome that leaves Hearts "debt free". They'll still have football debt to pay and then they have to pay back the loans that are allowing FOH to buy them in the first place.
Heh heh!
Breaking news from the Beeb
:thumbsup:
is what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
Ah right, nothing we didn't know already ...
Quote:
BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin 2m
Hearts will NOT be in a position to exit administration until at least February next year. More soon on BBC Scotland#newsdrive
Listening to that also, admin til february at least as UBIG shares can't be sold till after they have their own creditors meeting. Hardy-******g-har, GIRFUY!:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
I am past caring. Either outcome looks like it'll provide hilarity for us so I'm just going to roll with it and enjoy the show.
I missed the start of the news snippet but the jist of it is that nothing can possibly happen until the end of February.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
@BBCBMcLauchlin: Hearts will NOT be in a position to exit administration until at least February next year. More soon on BBC Scotland#newsdrive
Hahaha....so the shares were 'frozen'? Maybe not frozen due to investigation but they are still unable to be moved on!
What will the kickback reaction be to this? They dismissed Sergeys claim that this would happen quite strongly!
What will they say now? :greengrin
@BBCBMcLauchlin: Hearts parent company UBIG hold 50% share in club and these cannot be assigned or sold until creditors meeting in Lithuania#bbcsportscot
Yams better get their aprons on to bake their way till February (at least). I'm assuming that no-one is going to put any working capital in until there's more certainty.Quote:
Originally Posted by portycabbage
No sure what will happen with the BDO fees either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25144366
Sorry if that's not a link, computer numpty alert!