Weight Lifting

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Never actually came across this thread before and as a regular gym goer I have no idea why!

I can squat a fair weight. In the last two years I’ve stayed away from barbells.

If you go on insta, look for the hyper trophy coach. Squatting is all about the depth and the weight and it’s doesn’t matter whether it’s a barbell, smith machine or any other machine.

Barbell squat has so many downsides that any other way to get the weight and depth is preferential.

For example you’ll ever see any big bodybuilders doing flat bench because you get past 100kg, 90% of chest injuries come from flat barbell bench.

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I think you make a good point regarding squats being about depth and weight (for the most part). The issue I have with the Smith Machine is that it takes away the aspect of balance. Because the bar is fixed to a vertical axis, the muscles that would be utilized to support your balance are not being properly utilized. This is why a person can generally squat more weight on a Smith Machine as opposed to free form, not as many muscles are being activated. It's the same with the bench press. To maximize hypertrophy the barbell should be arched, but the Smith Machine doesn't allow the bar to be arched, which isn't ideal.

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Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

I have no experience with the smith machine myself. I know it has it's uses, but the biggest criticism I hear about it is the lack of flexibility it allows. Honestly, I would go free form and just reduce the weight for a while. See how deep you can go with a lighter load, then gradually work your way back up.

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I've tried that, even with just the barbell I can't get as deep as I can on the smith machine. It's bizarre.

It's been suggested below that I elevate my heels, think I'll try that next leg day.

Did legs on Saturday morning there. I currently have the worst DOMS of my life in my calves. It's a nightmare. Every step is sore!

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

I've tried that, even with just the barbell I can't get as deep as I can on the smith machine. It's bizarre.

It's been suggested below that I elevate my heels, think I'll try that next leg day.

Did legs on Saturday morning there. I currently have the worst DOMS of my life in my calves. It's a nightmare. Every step is sore!

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Heel elevation can help, particularly if you have tight hamstrings and struggle to keep your heels flat on the ground when squatting deeper. I see some squatters put a couple of weights under their heels to help with this, then they gradually reduce the thickness of the weights over time, bringing their heels closer to the ground until they are able to squat deep with flat heels. You'll get there. :aok:

We started a strength focused training plan last night with lower reps for much higher weights.

Planning on doing this for a few months with regular strength testing to see how we have improved.

Anyone got any tips for concentrating on strength? Haven't really planned out training to this extent before.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

We started a strength focused training plan last night with lower reps for much higher weights.

Planning on doing this for a few months with regular strength testing to see how we have improved.

Anyone got any tips for concentrating on strength? Haven't really planned out training to this extent before.

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the Wendler log is very good for strength training… simple and effective

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Originally Posted by FifeHibs

the Wendler log is very good for strength training… simple and effective

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I had a good look at it, thanks for the rec.

Is progress quite slow? Just from looking at the numbers and the progression it looks like it will take an age to get anywhere with it? Maybe I'm too impatient for this sport:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I had a good look at it, thanks for the rec.

Is progress quite slow? Just from looking at the numbers and the progression it looks like it will take an age to get anywhere with it? Maybe I'm too impatient for this sport:rolleyes:

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for strength you will see a good increase over the programme.

How does everyone cope with recovery? I did a legs session on Friday night and I'm still sore.

Had planned to go and do legs again this morning, but feels like it wouldn't be worth it as I wouldn't be able to do much.

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

How does everyone cope with recovery? I did a legs session on Friday night and I'm still sore.

Had planned to go and do legs again this morning, but feels like it wouldn't be worth it as I wouldn't be able to do much.

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Lots and lots of stretching protein and water…

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

How does everyone cope with recovery? I did a legs session on Friday night and I'm still sore.

Had planned to go and do legs again this morning, but feels like it wouldn't be worth it as I wouldn't be able to do much.

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I split my leg-work across two days, Quads biased one day and Hams biased the other. Has helped me with recovery.

Ive found a gentle swim helps, along with a Sauna. However the best thing really is dialling in your sleep and making sure you a hitting your protein and carb macros.

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Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip

I split my leg-work across two days, Quads biased one day and Hams biased the other. Has helped me with recovery.

Ive found a gentle swim helps, along with a Sauna. However the best thing really is dialling in your sleep and making sure you a hitting your protein and carb macros.

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I'm getting there with my sleep - managing about 8 hours a night, though not sure how much of it is "deep".

Definitely hitting my protein - managing 170-200g per day. Will need to look at my carbs though, for all the protein advice there is on g/km or g/lbs, there's not really the same for carbs!

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

How does everyone cope with recovery? I did a legs session on Friday night and I'm still sore.

Had planned to go and do legs again this morning, but feels like it wouldn't be worth it as I wouldn't be able to do much.

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Creatine powder every day, it's one of the most researched performance supplements and it's proven to work - https://www.instagram.com/p/DCPIXXisSS6/?igsh=MWJhM3hnZ2JkdmI1Yg==

High Protein diet to aid muscle recovery.

Active Recovery (walking, easy cycling, etc) on rest days.

Sorry adding to this. If you did heavy leg session the previous day, don't do legs the next day. It's the rest in between where you get the muscle growth. You don't want to over train as it will be detrimental

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

I'm getting there with my sleep - managing about 8 hours a night, though not sure how much of it is "deep".

Definitely hitting my protein - managing 170-200g per day. Will need to look at my carbs though, for all the protein advice there is on g/km or g/lbs, there's not really the same for carbs!

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Look into Magnesium supplementation for deep sleep. I don’t think I was sleeping well for at least a decade before using it.

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Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip

Look into Magnesium supplementation for deep sleep. I don’t think I was sleeping well for at least a decade before using it.

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I’ve been using a 3 in 1 magnesium supplement, what point in the day do you take this at? I was having it after my first meal along with vit d and a multi vit but I’ve seen a lot of people use it not long before bed

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Originally Posted by Dmas

I’ve been using a 3 in 1 magnesium supplement, what point in the day do you take this at? I was having it after my first meal along with vit d and a multi vit but I’ve seen a lot of people use it not long before bed

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I take mine 1hr before bed. Has really improved my sleep.

https://amzn.eu/d/fpPm1ZR

currently doing 2 x leg sessions per week, what do people think of the below - anything missing, or anything being over done (not necessarily in these orders):

Day 1:
Squats
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Leg Press
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

currently doing 2 x leg sessions per week, what do people think of the below - anything missing, or anything being over done (not necessarily in these orders):

Day 1:
Squats
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Leg Press
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine

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Doing upper as well?

Depends on the overall goal I would say!

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Doing upper as well?

Depends on the overall goal I would say!

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Yes, I do 2 x upper as well.

Monday - Lower
Tuesday - Football
Wednesday - Uper
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Lower
Saturday - Upper
Sunday - Football

Tbh the goal is probably aesthetic. The machine in the gym has me at 21-23% body fat and I'm trying to lose that slowly, whilst retaining as much muscle as possible and hopefully getting the BF down to 14-16%

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

Yes, I do 2 x upper as well.

Monday - Lower
Tuesday - Football
Wednesday - Uper
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Lower
Saturday - Upper
Sunday - Football

Tbh the goal is probably aesthetic. The machine in the gym has me at 21-23% body fat and I'm trying to lose that slowly, whilst retaining as much muscle as possible and hopefully getting the BF down to 14-16%

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With playing football twice a week, I’d possibly do more upper and only one lower session a week, especially if the goal is aesthetic reasons.

If I’m training 4 times a week I’ll do Push (chest dominant), Pull, Legs and then an upper 2 session (shoulder dominant).

That could work well and hits your more aesthetically pleasing muscles a bit more? If you’re doing a lot of cardio that should get the body fat down?

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

currently doing 2 x leg sessions per week, what do people think of the below - anything missing, or anything being over done (not necessarily in these orders):

Day 1:
Squats
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Leg Press
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine

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Personal opinion, I’d take out the deadlift altogether. Especially at the end of a hard leg session, the stimulus you’ll be getting from a deadlift will be minimal and it’ll be more risk to injury than anything.

You’re missing an RDL / SLDL which are much better exercises IMO. Maybe consider subbing out the Leg Press on day two as you’re already covering a squat pattern on day one, and sub in the RDL / SLDL for your Hinge movement.

Experiment with a set or two of high rep hamstring curls (I prefer seated leaning forward rather than lying) before your squats. I don’t try and progress these but after watching a few videos online and trying it out myself it’s helped up my squat by having some blood flowing through the legs beforehand.

I’d look into weighted lunges as a closer for both days if you’re feeling sadistic.i prefer reverse lunges in a Smith Machine with the standing foot elevated on a plate.

You must be done in after the above 😆😆

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

With playing football twice a week, I’d possibly do more upper and only one lower session a week, especially if the goal is aesthetic reasons.

If I’m training 4 times a week I’ll do Push (chest dominant), Pull, Legs and then an upper 2 session (shoulder dominant).

That could work well and hits your more aesthetically pleasing muscles a bit more? If you’re doing a lot of cardio that should get the body fat down?

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So I'm doing 2 x legs because, from what I understand, building muscle is one of the best ways to reduce fat long term, and given that the leg muscles tend to be bigger, I'm trying to work them out in the hope that it helps with that. On my Monday Leg sessions, I thrown in one working set of Back, Chest, Bicep, Tricep and Shoulders in the hope that that'll be enough.

From what I've read between 12-20 working sets per muscle is the aim per week? For my upper body, I'm managing about 13 working sets (and a few warm up ones too)

The fat % does seem to be coming down (my cal deficit is about 500 a day)

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Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip

Personal opinion, I’d take out the deadlift altogether. Especially at the end of a hard leg session, the stimulus you’ll be getting from a deadlift will be minimal and it’ll be more risk to injury than anything.

You’re missing an RDL / SLDL which are much better exercises IMO. Maybe consider subbing out the Leg Press on day two as you’re already covering a squat pattern on day one, and sub in the RDL / SLDL for your Hinge movement.

Experiment with a set or two of high rep hamstring curls (I prefer seated leaning forward rather than lying) before your squats. I don’t try and progress these but after watching a few videos online and trying it out myself it’s helped up my squat by having some blood flowing through the legs beforehand.

I’d look into weighted lunges as a closer for both days if you’re feeling sadistic.i prefer reverse lunges in a Smith Machine with the standing foot elevated on a plate.

You must be done in after the above 😆😆

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I'll try adding in an RDL instead of the standard deadlift. I always feel a bit daft doing them however so I've not really kept them as part of my routine.

Weighted lunges I did for a bit, but I just couldn't recover from them in time, my legs found them absolutely murderous!

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

currently doing 2 x leg sessions per week, what do people think of the below - anything missing, or anything being over done (not necessarily in these orders):

Day 1:
Squats
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Leg Press
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Lying Hamstring Curl
Leg extension machine

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A day of squatting and finishing with deadlifts gives me the fear. You’d be far better doing deadlifts at the start of your day 2 plan.

Based on what you’re doing in the gym and your football, that’s a lot of work.

How are you feeling generally? I’m a seasoned lifter and do 3-4 hours of zone cardio a week - usually spread over 3 or 4 runs - and the idea of 2 lots of football and 2 leg sessions a week gives me the fear.

I don’t mean to pry too much but if you’re pushing in the gym to the point of being close to failure in these sessions then at least one of the football sessions should be absolutely torture.

Never seen this thread before so may as well join in. Hadn't really stepped foot in a gym before but eventually got into it post COVID. Got a PT, taught me all the proper form etc - was great. Spent a couple years doing that and learned so much through them. Did 3 day full body sessions, 4 day upper/lower splits, different programs on rotation etc and was in the best shape I'd ever been in. I felt pretty good. And I wasn't exactly super strict from a nutrition standpoint, still allowed myself treats but I generally stuck to my calorie deficit and healthy eating whilst getting adequate protein in. Creatine was great for recovery.

Circumstances changed including a couple of injuries and whilst I kept the gym up for a a good while after that it's been absolutely shocking since. Switched to an office job, got lazy and the gym vanished from my habits. I was also getting fed up of gyms themselves as I was either having to go stupidly early in the morning at like 4/5am or post work in peak hours and what should have taken me 45-60 mins ended up taking me two hours at times. Unfortunately slim pickings for gyms round here so I have to venture to the Fort and it's just ridiculous how busy Pure Gym is. Other options are too expensive or aren't open in the hours I'd go. Yes that's an excuse I'm well aware :greengrin

I am trying to get back into it this year but it has been a bit stop-start and I'm finding it difficult to create the habits again. I've signed up for the EMF 10km in May so trying to train for that but my endurance is horrendous. I'm doing some golf swing speed training which is basically swing a club of different weights around for 30 mins 3 times a week and also trying to fit in 3 full body sessions a week, all whilst trying to maintain a calorie deficit to lose weight. I don't think I've managed to string together a solid week of everything yet. Something always ends up fading out or I end up having to take 2/3 days to recover from something so I miss the odd thing or I end up eating too much cos I'm knackered.

I am possibly trying to do too much - so may cut back on the 3 gym sessions and just go ad hoc (as in I've done the 10km/golf stuff and I feel up to it physically). Once the golf season begins to kick in I will be dropping that training and can focus more on gym work and running.

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Originally Posted by Hibs90

Never seen this thread before so may as well join in. Hadn't really stepped foot in a gym before but eventually got into it post COVID. Got a PT, taught me all the proper form etc - was great. Spent a couple years doing that and learned so much through them. Did 3 day full body sessions, 4 day upper/lower splits, different programs on rotation etc and was in the best shape I'd ever been in. I felt pretty good. And I wasn't exactly super strict from a nutrition standpoint, still allowed myself treats but I generally stuck to my calorie deficit and healthy eating whilst getting adequate protein in. Creatine was great for recovery.

Circumstances changed including a couple of injuries and whilst I kept the gym up for a a good while after that it's been absolutely shocking since. Switched to an office job, got lazy and the gym vanished from my habits. I was also getting fed up of gyms themselves as I was either having to go stupidly early in the morning at like 4/5am or post work in peak hours and what should have taken me 45-60 mins ended up taking me two hours at times. Unfortunately slim pickings for gyms round here so I have to venture to the Fort and it's just ridiculous how busy Pure Gym is. Other options are too expensive or aren't open in the hours I'd go. Yes that's an excuse I'm well aware :greengrin

I am trying to get back into it this year but it has been a bit stop-start and I'm finding it difficult to create the habits again. I've signed up for the EMF 10km in May so trying to train for that but my endurance is horrendous. I'm doing some golf swing speed training which is basically swing a club of different weights around for 30 mins 3 times a week and also trying to fit in 3 full body sessions a week, all whilst trying to maintain a calorie deficit to lose weight. I don't think I've managed to string together a solid week of everything yet. Something always ends up fading out or I end up having to take 2/3 days to recover from something so I miss the odd thing or I end up eating too much cos I'm knackered.

I am possibly trying to do too much - so may cut back on the 3 gym sessions and just go ad hoc (as in I've done the 10km/golf stuff and I feel up to it physically). Once the golf season begins to kick in I will be dropping that training and can focus more on gym work and running.

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Going ad hoc will stall any progress. Maybe try going twice a week early in the morning or late at night, it's a small change but if you can go at 9pm and spend an hour in the gym twice a week instead of 6 hours at peak times over 3 sessions its a better use of your time. Then when your time allows and your focus changes you will have a good base to build on.

I used to go early when the gym was empty - I used to use a Pure Gym when I lived in England and would go before 6am starts, I'd be in the gym for 4.30 when it was dead quiet. It was a good way to start the day. Extreme, perhaps, but it was much more productive than going at 5 pm.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

A day of squatting and finishing with deadlifts gives me the fear. You’d be far better doing deadlifts at the start of your day 2 plan.

Based on what you’re doing in the gym and your football, that’s a lot of work.

How are you feeling generally? I’m a seasoned lifter and do 3-4 hours of zone cardio a week - usually spread over 3 or 4 runs - and the idea of 2 lots of football and 2 leg sessions a week gives me the fear.

I don’t mean to pry too much but if you’re pushing in the gym to the point of being close to failure in these sessions then at least one of the football sessions should be absolutely torture.

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I maybe didn't make it clear, but that's not the exact order I do things in - I try and get the big compound exercises in pretty early.

How am I feeling generally? I wake up sore and tired every single morning. The 7s on a Tuesday is a real grind, but I don't like most other forms of cardio and that's when the football is available, so I don't have much choice!

From this thread, it certainly seems I'm doing a wee bit too much, so I'll maybe change the second leg session into a more mixed session when I get back from my holidays in the middle of March.

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

I maybe didn't make it clear, but that's not the exact order I do things in - I try and get the big compound exercises in pretty early.

How am I feeling generally? I wake up sore and tired every single morning. The 7s on a Tuesday is a real grind, but I don't like most other forms of cardio and that's when the football is available, so I don't have much choice!

From this thread, it certainly seems I'm doing a wee bit too much, so I'll maybe change the second leg session into a more mixed session when I get back from my holidays in the middle of March.

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Fair do's on the football, if you enjoy it there's no reason to stop.

What I would say is you're pushing really hard and barely giving yourself any recovery time. 6 days of training a week is very intense and I'd suggest dropping a day of activity down to a long walk to get your step count up.

Keep the football sessions as you enjoy them, drop down a gym day and maybe try spreading a bit of the load over the other sessions - especially the more aesthetic exercises you're doing.

How are folks getting on?

Been a productive couple of weeks in the gym for me, we've started doing the 5x5 Stronglifts programme for our compound movements and seen a decent amount of progress.

Haven't tested anything yet but I'm bench pressing more weight for higher reps than I ever have before. My 1 rep max this time a year ago was around 100-110kg, now benching 95kg for sets of 5, some are struggle to get all the sets completed but usually managing to complete at least 4 of the 5 at 5 reps.

For reference I weigh about 91-93 kg's so happy to be at that stage after just a couple of weeks of the block.

Incline bench has jumped as well, I do this for lighter weights but higher reps, usually on an alternate day to flat bench.

We bought a tricep dip bar a few weeks ago and it's been an excellent addition to the home gym. Also got a weight belt so can add weight.

We are finding that it takes longer, usually we spend 50 or so minutes in the gym but get the 5x5 done, usually with a superset unless it's deadlift which I just do on its own. So 5x5 with or without a superset, plus maybe 2 further accessory movements usually does it for us.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

How are folks getting on?

Been a productive couple of weeks in the gym for me, we've started doing the 5x5 Stronglifts programme for our compound movements and seen a decent amount of progress.

Haven't tested anything yet but I'm bench pressing more weight for higher reps than I ever have before. My 1 rep max this time a year ago was around 100-110kg, now benching 95kg for sets of 5, some are struggle to get all the sets completed but usually managing to complete at least 4 of the 5 at 5 reps.

For reference I weigh about 91-93 kg's so happy to be at that stage after just a couple of weeks of the block.

Incline bench has jumped as well, I do this for lighter weights but higher reps, usually on an alternate day to flat bench.

We bought a tricep dip bar a few weeks ago and it's been an excellent addition to the home gym. Also got a weight belt so can add weight.

We are finding that it takes longer, usually we spend 50 or so minutes in the gym but get the 5x5 done, usually with a superset unless it's deadlift which I just do on its own. So 5x5 with or without a superset, plus maybe 2 further accessory movements usually does it for us.

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95kg bench is impressive, especially given it's above body weight.

I've been on my upper / lower and 2 x football routine for 7 weeks now and I'm having to take a rest / deload week this week as I am absolutely shot. I'm then on holiday next week, so that should be a nice recovery time.

I probably won't be able to keep it up once I get back, so I need to have a think and see what I want to do moving forward. Probably 3x a week, but the easiest time for me to go is a Monday night, Friday night and Saturday morning, which isn't really ideal.

Going to drop the barbell squats and try and just do them on either smith or hack machine, I can get much deeper that way.

Will probably try and focus a bit more on the upper as even though I'm squatting 120 and leg pressing 240, my bench is only around 45-50kg! Would like to try and really move that up.

Stay away from 1 rep max unless you’re going for power lifting stuff.

1 rep max is for ego otherwise. Better 3 sets for 10-12 reps at 80-90kg