We should sue him for 4 years of wasted wages with no product. Petty and pathetic.
I’d say I hope he comes back to Easter Road some day in opposition, but he’s not good enough to ever be part of a team we compete with.
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We should sue him for 4 years of wasted wages with no product. Petty and pathetic.
I’d say I hope he comes back to Easter Road some day in opposition, but he’s not good enough to ever be part of a team we compete with.
It's subjective though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
While I wasn't impressed by him, he can argue that his career was on an upwards trajectory before he was injured.
Aston Villa, Cheltenham Town and Cambridge United followed by St Mirren then Hibs.
Whether or not we agree, that's an argument.
A few things, maybe the club should have included a no fault type clause in his payoff? Hindsight I suppose.
Also being able to sue for an injury training is opening a huge can of worms. Sets a dangerous precedent when there are these types of risk associated with your job on a daily basis.
Do players not have insurance for this type of thing? I’d def have my legs and stuff insured if I my career depended on it.
Certainly would be unfortunate to get your stuff injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
I'd imagine the insurance is for career ending, so if he's continuing to play on with Sligo then that's no use. It would be there to cover wages you'd have been able to earn had you been able to continue playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
Similarly if he's being paid by Hibs while injured, no need to claim for insurance as there's no lost earnings.
Case seems to be focused on the injury affecting his ability to earn a higher wage than he is commanding now. We'll see what the evidence is and how he gets on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Exactly, unless he can show that a team tried to sign him from Hibs prior to the injury (as he is claiming the injury derailed his career), there’s not much they can do to prove he would have went on to a more lucrative career.
Didn’t he not turn down a chance to join Forrest Green ? Don’t remember when that was , I’m presuming before his injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Wait, JDH thinks he would have played at a better level? Or even similar level?
He was out for what one year on and off? Came back for short spells and then back out. And it was a historic injury discovered as a result from Johnson?
If JDH was as good as he thinks, he would still have got another SPFL club - see Kyle Magennis for example
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
I think that was after. Could be wrong but I think it was a January window, either still under LJ or Monty (could be totally wrong through :greengrin)
It was after this incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
A really low / rotten thing to do
.
Just been on Reporting Scotland his issue is the LJ tackle and the club are aware of it
In other news …….
Starts tonight for Sligo
Shame that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby
We could have called him the vegan Brian Kerr.
Doyle-Hayes' solicitors will be hoping that Hibs insurers decide it's cheaper to pay out than fight the case.
But if Hibs gave him the appropriate medical care then I can't see how Hibs are liable. Plenty of other managers and coaches join in sessions at times so Hibs can't be considered negligent for not banning Johnson from doing so. As regards loss of earnings, Hibs honoured his contract when Doyle-Hayes was out for a very long time. Any loss of post-Hibs earnings is very speculative and would require Doyle-Hayes to demonstrate sufficient interest in signing him from Hibs before he got the injury. There are plenty of players who leave Hibs and get less money on their next deal from clubs on a level with Sligo Rovers. Maybe they should sue Hibs for not improving them enough?
Surely his claim should be against LJ?
Given his previous statement it sounds awful like he has had an ambulance chasing type lawyer say lets chance this and see what we get.
All a bit bizarre, surely this could be a case anytime anyone gets an injury, if it is primarily about his loss of earnings. Either that or there is more to it than is in public knowledge to date.
It matters to Digby Brown
😀😀😀Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli1875
And on top of that, he had the opportunity to go to Forest Green (League One at the time) AFTER the injury and he turned it down whilst Hibs accepted the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
His career trajectory is entirely of his making with a mix of bad decisions such as turning down FGR and being ****ing guff.
If this goes the whole hog he will win **** all. He’ll be hoping to get a ‘we can’t be arsed with the hassle’ payment from Hibs.
Forgetting the legal case, I still can’t work out why he was brought on in the first derby this season, for his only appearance of the season. The most random substitution I’ve ever seen!
Yes it appears to be all about that Infamous tackle.Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS
You'd think so but his lawyers have probably instructed him that he'll be able to claim more out of Hibs and they're more likely to settle.Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh
We should countersue him for impersonating a footballer.
He was out for a length of time not dissimilar to what most players face at some point in the careers. Some bounce back, some don’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
Like you say, he was deemed fit enough for a move to Forrest Green and turned it down. We deemed him fit enough (maybe proving a point knowing this was in the pipeline?) to play him before his release. He’s now fit enough to play in Ireland. The injury has had no more effect on him than the thousands of other players injured every year and I’ve genuinely never heard of legal action like this before. If he wins, where do you draw the line?
Alex Harris suing Motherwell? His career went rapidly off its projected path and never recovered.
Bowie suing the SFA? He could have been the leagues top scorer for all we know and on his way to Celtic this summer.
Mateta for being outright assaulted against Millwall?
Sure, these three were injured in games rather than training but JDH is far from the first to be injured on the training ground.
JDH is back to fitness and playing for Siglo Rovers. If he was good enough to be playing elsewhere then he would be, previous injury or not.
I hope Hibs fight this all the way, and suspect they will.
We’ll end up paying £200k - £300k to settle this; added to the £250k we pished away on McAllister’s son, that’s at least half a million that clown Johnson has cost us.
He had all the patter and excusesQuote:
Originally Posted by ehf
Hope they got riddenQuote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
Smacks of a desperate cash grab. Would like to see how his lawyers argue he could've played at a higher level than he currently is were it not for this incident given that he played for us after it and is still training and playing.
Never liked JDH, thought him an extremely limited footballer who shouldn't have been anywhere near Hibs. Wish that were the case and hope the club stand up and fight this.
Agree. Limited footballer, sour grapes. He is at Sligo and won't get better because that is his level, not because he got a HORRIFIC injury in a tackle in training. I was responsible for Health & Safety for a large organisation for many years, you wouldn't believe some of the claims people submitted. Most of the time they would get pay outs, even though it was obvious they were at it. I hope he gets hee haw and has to pay the costs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibiza
Some amount of poor “information” on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
I hope he gets what he wants.
The PFA will know what they are doing.
A wee nobby ******* who is trying to milk a **** career for what it’s not worth.
The streets will forget and he will never be remembered.
Exactly right, his football ability is not the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJB
Could be an interesting precedent set by this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJB
Every time a player is injured then there would be grounds to sue the player responsible
- the injured player could sue for lost appearance money or bonuses whilst out
- clubs would sue for the wages they're paying to someone who is unavailable or, if the club is insured, their insurers would sue to cover their pay out
- clubs could sue for lost earnings because the unavailable player could have helped them progress in the cup or finish higher up the league
All with the same validity that Doyle-Hayes has for claiming he has lost out.
It is if he's claiming that "his career would have continued at a higher level" but for the injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
Based on what we saw of him playing for us, his next move was almost certainly at a lower level.
It’s different because injuries are part and parcel of professional sport, when players compete, their job puts them at risk of injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
In training, in the normal course of events the same rules apply. Where this is different, is that Johnson put himself in the session despite not being of a high enough standard of fitness and (presumably) skill to do so without putting the players at risk of something like a badly mistimed or misjudged tackle.
That’s a very specific scenario, so it might open clubs up to similar cases but not for players picking up injuries in the course of doing their job where all reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury.
But we employed LJ and he was acting in his capacity as a Hibs employee at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh
'Skill' and 'fitness' won't matter. You could level that at every player currently playing professional football. Many young players won't realistically have the comparable skill or fitness when they train with the first team. Could be argued the plaintiff wasn't exactly 'skillful' nor often 'fit' for selection before the incident and Lee Johnson was 41 at the time of what Doyle-Hayes' representatives are describing as a "horrific injury." They need to prove that something during his time at Hibs occurred resulting in him not being able to play at a "higher level" than he is currently at.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
It will/can come into it. The youth players don’t go in with the first team until they’re capable of playing with them, for their own safety as much as anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baader
Lee Johnson arguably had no place being in that session but by placing himself in it he’s endangered his players and ultimately ended up injuring one of them.
The difference in skill level between players that compete is a necessary risk on the sport but it is mitigated by a requirement to have them coached by suitably trained staff and by a system (the league) that requires teams to sign players at or close to the level required. Injuries in sport are an accepted risk, the club’s duty of care to the players in that regard is to make sure that they’re trained and conditioned properly.
On the training pitch you have more control over the risk and a higher duty of care as a result, putting out of shape managers in positions where they’re tackling players is not a necessary risk and is arguably negligent.
This won't cost Hibs anything - we'll have insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Are the PFA involved?
What part of that is incorrect?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Hibs accepted an offer. He turned it down. That’s entirely his problem, nobody else’s.
I hope, and fully expect, he’ll get **** all. It’s an embarrassing cash grab from a dreadful player.
The immunity these lawyers get when pleading or advising pee eye ess itch is crazy. Can't wait for Tamsons to argue that Aston Villa realised their mistake and were about to bid millions for jdh and beat the mighty Forest Green Rovers to bring jdh back.
If that's the case then, all Hibs will be required to do is to provide evidence to the insurance company how Johnson 'injured' JDH.Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith
Will it not then be our insurance company who will decide to either negotiate a pay off for JDH or take it to court.
We will have little say, or none at all on what happens between our insurers and the JDH legal team.
That’s what you believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
They actively stood in his way though. Strange way to conduct themselves.
There’s also the fact that there has been huge changes at football and business level in the aftermath of all this but yes it’s all JDH’s fault.
Good luck to him.
I would assume there will be many cases when lawyers accept a case when they think the chances are significantly less than 50/50. This one they will be banking on Hibs not wanting to go to court and negotiating a compromiseQuote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Yup, case will appear on the court rolls as JDH v Hibs but ultimately it's the insurance company running things/deciding if, when and how much to settle it for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibees1973
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
With one or two others as well I believe.
An employer generally, in most cases, has vicarious liability for the actions of its employee. So no need to pursue LJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh
No, it’s not what I believe, it’s what happened. The club wanted him gone, he didn’t want to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
**** him.
We’ll soon see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
You believe. Clearly all your information is 100% accurate and other people are the ones guilty of posting “poor information”.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
I certainly trust what I’ve been told. Couldn’t be much closer to the horses mouth yes. Anyway I hope he gets what he deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
Between Youan, JDH and others this place is brutal. Hopefully these guys never read the nonsense spouted about them on here.
Zero respect for anyone’s mental health that’s for sure.
Not having a go at you, but you have posted a few times that what others have said on this thread is wrong - that being the case, perhaps enlighten us as to what has, allegedly happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Also, when you say your info "couldnt be closer to the horses mouth" does that mean someone at Hibs, or JDH, or someone on his legal team? Because the answer to that question also has implications for what you were told.
Cheers
It will all come out in the wash.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
Hibs were a complete shambles hence major changes since, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise there were a lot of issues caused by the way players/personnel were treated.
I definitely don’t know anyone legal but players have people who look after them outside of legalities. He deserves all the support he needs/gets.
The PFA are very good at what they do when required.
Spot on. The clean out has been first class.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Not at all. The case is all around the working practices of the manager at the time. It’s not just the tackle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
It is quite interesting that plenty people were all too happy to lay into Johnson and others at the club, often deservedly so, at the time, but now an actual employee during that period has raised a grievance it's 'aye **** off mate, Hibs have done nowt wrong'.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
As I said about 5 pages ago it's a legacy issue rather than reflective of the club now. Hibs obviously felt there were issues as plenty people were shipped out in recent times.
I am not a rocket scientist, nor am I (or most people on this board) close to agents etc who can tell us about the practices at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Its difficult to know if you are suggesting that JDH was treated poorly, or if there was a culture of bullying at East Mains.
The board is great for many things, but if people are not clear about things, it allows rumour and speculation to grow.
As you say, it will all emerge in the wash.
BothQuote:
Originally Posted by green day
What’s that assumption based on?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Reputable ones generally won’t without good cause, I’m told.
In that case, that reflects poorly on those Hibs employees involved at the time. Hopefully all now binned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Also, if JDH wins, we could be on the hook for more payouts..............
As others have pointed out there was many examples around that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
“These injuries should never have happened and were incurred due to incompetent and incoherent decisions made by his manager. Jake’s career has been derailed by mismanagement and ineptitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
“A career has been lost to this athlete. We will get him compensation.”
I think you’re stretching to take it to general working practices, the article in the EEN that this quote is taken to says the case is around decisions relating to the tackle and injury, not wider incompetence.
Weren’t people's issues with Lee mainly down to poor results and that he talked a lot of *****?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
It's a stretch to imagine that the lay person is going to jump from that to denigrating everyone and everything behind the scenes, on one useless player's say-so.
They aren’t just talking about the tackle tho Matty. That’s just an example of the mismanagement.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Why would Hibs stand in the way of a player leaving who wasn't getting a game because he had too few games where he was good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Where are you getting that from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
With his playing performances since 2021 (poor) and his taking a club to court antics (red flag) I don't see there being any queue of clubs wanting to sign Jake Doyle Hayes, and the culprit is one man, who goes by the name of Jake Doyle Hayes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Career over, and it's all his own fault (with special mention to those advising him badly)
I am just glad Hibs are not coming out fighting, with press releases and denials like we see elsewhere. It feels like there is a dignified, quiet, approach to just let this run its course and trust the judicial system.
Also fair for it to be open season for conjecture on here. After all, there’s no football to talk about and we need something to keep us interested until signings start to happen and the draw comes through for Europa league qualifying.
If there is no case to answer then I hope JDH gets nothing. If there is, I hope Hibs acknowledge it, pay suitable competition and move on.
Your guess is as good as mine. A couple of times JDH had very good offers and wanted to leave, only due to issues with staff I must say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
He has never spoke badly about the club as a whole but personnel especially were ignoring the human element to him and a few others.
Thankfully the dirt has been washed out this is merely the residue that deserves better treatment.
I cannot divulge my sources Matty.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
He’s got a club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbank
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
could you elaborate on this point please? As far as I knew, Hibs accepted an offer, which would imply they were happy/prepared for JDH to leave?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
Could you also elaborate on this? I don’t remember anything, albeit I’m far from itk.
Thanks both
What exactly is it that you think he deserves? A year's salary? £1m?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
If JDH was subject to bullying or mistreatment he would have had disciplinary options available to him at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Can't wait to see how he claims his career has been lost due to this mismanagement. Embarassing affair for him.
He was under contract to Hibs. If we didn't want him to leave, it's really a non issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Not that anyone else is going to believe that he had very good offers and Hibs blocked this, to be fair. Strange that these lucrative offers weren't available this year, when he became a free agent.
That’s not for me to decide but as I say well paying options for him were blocked. He’s entitled to look for what he wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
It is far from embarrassing, for him anyway.
Nothing untoward there from any employer though, is it? He's under contract, that only changes with the agreement of both parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
I know from someone that he had an offer to go to Italy about 2.5 years ago and he chose not to go. Same with the Forest Green offer. Hibs weren’t standing in his way to leave, although it may have been required to have suited them as well which we’re well within our right when he’s under contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Yeah that’s the two, thereafter Hibs let him down spectacularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
He certainly never “chose not to go”
He was under contract so if Hibs didn’t want to let him go somewhere then so be it. He signed the contract in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
It makes little sense to me as to why Hibs would want to block a player contributing next to nothing from leaving though.
There's been talk of certain players causing dressing room unrest, could it well be that JDH and possibly Youan are 2 of those said players and we were happy for them to go. Youan got injured so that transfer fell through and JDH knocked back 2, both players then struggle for game time as it's clear they're unwanted, this scenario is very common in football. Is he using the injury as an excuse because he feels hard done by?
You’d need to ask the higher management that but it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
He did the sign the contract and was very happy at the club. He couldn’t foresee what happened. It’s absolutely no surprise that Hibs have acted accordingly to get their ducks in order since.
My word. This place.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Both definitely not “unwanted” by Gray anyway. Derby comeback for JDH and Youan is still widely accepted as a huge talent by the club and acknowledged as a good egg who works very hard in the dressing room by Gray himself.
The “unrest” has disapated but to blame the dressing room is wholly untrue and given the togetherness of all players involved throughout this season it’s bizarre to say otherwise.
JDH was very unfairly treated by the club, Youan has been disgracefully treated by certain elements too.
On this crazy unrest idea, I am out.
Good luck to JDH.
If JDH has an issue with bullying or poor treatment, and its backed up and evidenced then he certainly has a case - if so, I hope he wins this.
However, it seems that some people are suggesting that the player has been "held back" and not allowed to go and sign for whoever they want - while under contract.
Regardless of how good or bad a player he was, its tin foil hat stuff for him or his advisers to include "not being allowed to leave Hibs" while under contract to Hibs as part of this.
If that was the case, then the corollary is that football clubs can just stop paying injured players - which is equally as ludicrous a suggestion.
So he was very happy at the club, the club didn’t let him go (which they’re entitled to), and now he’s taking the club to court due to mistreatment?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Doesn’t make much sense
Derby comeback and never to be seen againQuote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
You posting that JDH was very unfairly treated, without any substance is not really any better than wild speculation about him being a trouble maker. Is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
Sorry, but I don't believe this is the case. There's no logic behind Hibs standing in the way of an unwanted player moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
You also allude to Youan being treated poorly by the club. My only thoughts on that are that the club declined a transfer fee that didn't match their valuation of the player. Tough luck on that one for Youan. If he had been smarter , there would have been a release trigger in his contract.
It doesn’t make sense because it’s not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomtownHibees
Hibs were happy to let him go to FGR. JDH didn’t want to go. It’s that simple.
I don’t know if that’s in the allegations and other than what’s been reported I don’t know any detail of the case - as far as I know there’s very little in the public domain about it and I would imagine when there’s a legal case involved that both sides will be trying to maintain as much confidentiality as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
I don’t really have a side on this one, I want to see people treated fairly by the club and people treat the club fairly, Hibs will (i presume) have insurance for this sort of scenario and so the impact on the club won’t be massive regardless.
You see us normal punter on here who don't have this so called in the know info we have just got assumptions and heresay to go on, we are told there's a very good team spirit at the club now which wasn't there previously. You keep mentioning JDH being unfairly treated by the club but never mention what that unfair treatment was and was it by the club or an official at the club (ex manager).Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew70
So until we get any more details from either you, the club or JDH, we'll all still speculate as to what it's all about.
Assuming JDH was a bad apple tho is done without any foundation at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Interesting on the McGregor stuff. Why couldn't rangers sell to us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Cos we were in the same league as them so direct rivals and had just stopped Scott Allan moving there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm just trying to work out what any mis treatment of him was and why, we were told he was free from injury for a while but was no where near the 1st team, why? Because there's no details about any mistreatment, we will all speculate, it's only natural on a fans website. I was told under Johnson that the dressing room atmosphere was pretty bad, Gray and the players have went a long way to sort that out and as we seen at the start of the season, certain players were shipped out either on loan or permanently, JDH being one of them in January.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightside
How was JDH unfairly treated? Because we wouldn’t sell him?
It was on the back of the whole Scott Allan saga and there was a bit of bad blood between the clubs and fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
That came from Daz himself. If anyone can remember the short lived .net podcast he told the story on there and I'm sure elsewhere in the press as well so it's definitely in the public domain.
Seemingly but then we allowed him to leave for free in January.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseen work
I’m going to bow out of this also. I’m sure the club will do the right thing. We are in a much better place now.