Sadly that site just spouts pish on Rangers but it would be funny if they were liquidatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Sadly that site just spouts pish on Rangers but it would be funny if they were liquidatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It'd be quality. Though somehow, I think the SFA would conspire a fudge to prevent the ethereal holding company from having to reapply for membership of the leagues for their separate entity (the club) and to make sure they end up "back where they belong" in the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Especially because we're all too aware that the last time that happened, the requirements for admission to the leagues were completely overlooked.
I don't know - another phoenix club and the devil is in the detail: does Ashley hold the rights to the "Rangers" brand? Could it be that no matter what happens, any club calling itself Rangers (The Rangers, The The Rangers, Rangers 2015 etc) would come under the IP that Ashley holds?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
To be honest, they gave Cheerful Charlie a carte blanche to chalk up any future legal fees to the club. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they mortgaged off their identity in exchange for a few million from Ashley.
Mugs. hahahah
There was chat a while ago about insurance to cover this sort of thing. Was the have they got it or not question ever answered?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Judging by how the MSM generally softball all things (The) Rangers, I think the real question is, has the question ever asked and has anyone ever really been pressed for an answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
In what respect are his comments @@@@? He is simply giving his opinions like anyone else has the right too. Personally I find him and Phil Mac a refreshing change from the mainstream media who are not even attempting to perform their duties or are too scared to publish what they know or think.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
There is no obligation to believe everything you read - but there is enough information out there to be able to form your opinions.
Well, for one thing, he says a 25 point deduction won't harm their chances of automatic promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
I appreciate we are behind them in the League, but 25 points?
Completely agree with you on that, my questions were more about the financial side and I realize I wasn't very clear on that. I also think he is supremely optimistic that someone with more money will take Kings place. How did that work out the last time? 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
No I did get that, it's just that particular line made me question how accurate any of his musings might be.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
I think his estimated 8 figure legal costs might be fanciful, too. He's just taken top end daily rates and extrapolated them over a long time period - I'm not sure that's particularly reliable.
Agreed but at least we have a self confessed Rangers man questioning and being critical of the club which is an awful lot more than the cowards in the press are doing. CWG has already picked holes in his figures but then who really knows the whole truth of what's going on there?Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Ashley owns the name Rangers, the badges, strip designs and even Broxi Bear. Rangers have the right to buy them back if they pay back the £5m but if there is admin then they won't even be part of the CVA process.Quote:
Originally Posted by steakbake
Their next saviour will need to go speak to big mike.
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His figures do look a touch expensive even for lawyers. Thankfully a fraction of that figure would be enough to sink them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
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This time the New Huns are 2 companies: RIFC which owns RFC (formerly Sevco Scotland).
There might be some way to pass on RFC to a new vehicle and leave the debt behind in RIFC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Even if they managed to pass on TRFC to a new holding company, the 25 penalty points sanction would still apply. That is very clear in the SPFL rules. Any disposal of the companies main asset would have to be agreed by the shareholders of RIFC.
I don't think there is that much debt as nobody will give them credit. Their problem is finding hard cash to pay wages and Hector.
Yes, the 25 pts is clear. But could they avoid div 3 for a New New Huns by keeping this New Huns under a different holding co?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Debts of 5M to Ashley and a few M to 3 bears.
I agree, I think it's cash flow rather than debt that will sink them.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Similar to what happened with us, you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The issue with that is the SFA licence. The new holding company would have to apply for a new licence. That's what did for them last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
However, the way round it is to have a successful CVA, as Hearts did. Not sure how likely that is. It would probably depend on the extent, actual and relative, of the HMRC debt.
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Would they not struggle for a CVA while ownership of all the asserts is in dispute? And while the brand is owned by Ashley.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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A successful CVA would pay off Ashley as the secured creditor and return the brand to RFC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Whether it would be successful? Like any CVA....that would depend on a willing buyer and a willing seller. The buyer would have to satisfy themselves as to the ownership of the assets, and offer enough to make it worthwhile to the seller, ie the unsecured creditors.
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Ashley doesn't just have security though, he owns the ip.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
He also has security over a dated , half empty office block called Edmiston House and a car park that has some significance planning wise for the Club to use its corporate guests deck.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...nsfers-6607054
Daily ****** having a pop at Imran Ahmad for moving his assets to his wife's name.
Fail to mention he is only copying Chairman King when the South African Hectors were closing in on him . :greengrin
Even more Machiavellian plotting from JohnJames. :confused:
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/.../11/rfc-redux/
The more I read of this farcical merry go round, the more I'm convinced the Rangers are finished! There is no money in Scottish Football and there is no-one daft enough to invest in a sunken ship that is breaking up on the ocean floor ...
As long as they go pop before the end of the season, i've backed us at 14's, 16's and 20's to win the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmith
Yes, although STF ultimately paid the holding co's debt didn't he?Quote:
Originally Posted by overdrive
No, last time the licence was held by the company that was the old huns. When that died, the licence was passed to Sevco, since renamed RFC. Separately, RIFC was set up to own Sevco.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
So this time RIFC could go pop (incurring a 25 pt penalty as the parent co of Sevco) but Sevco itself and its licence could be passed on.
That's not what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
When RFC went into liquidation, the licence was lost. A new licence was subsequently granted to Sevco, as the result of the infamous 5 way agreement.
If the company goes into administration, it will keep the licence, as Hearts did. If it then goes into liquidation, the licence will be lost.
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.
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Great value. well played.:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
No, that's not right. They didn't get the Old Huns' SPL share, they did get the Old Huns' SFA membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
We're probably splitting hairs here. My understanding is that the place was vacant and that Sevco were awarded it as a result of the 5 way agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
It wasn't a fair process of course, and it's likely that that would be repeated in the event of their going into liquidation. However, that's on the assumption that there's another buyer who could pick up the pieces quickly enough. That's one of the reasons why the last process "worked"...because there was a buyer in place at the back of the failed CVA.
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When the 12 members of the SPL met to discuss the then Sevco's (now Rangers International) application to be admitted directly to the SPL, one of the 12 voting on it (and the only one to vote in favour) was Rangers.
Now, if they were one and the same entity, how could that be possible?
Only 11 voted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibayernian
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Was it Killie that abstained?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Only a month until we find out if Charles Green has screwed the Rangers for his legal fees
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1330...y-legal-costs/
Let the fun begin.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Pmacgioll...41865767227392
Doubt much will happen today, just an administrative exercise. Unless they all plead guilty!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Agree. Today will be an anti climax.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I was up at the council to pay my taxi licence fees and there was a fairly large police presence outside the courthouse and all around the High St area, loads of press waiting outside too, I wonder how much all this is costing the tax payers.
Nothing if Charles Green gets his way, The Rangers will foot the bill :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Although - if The Rangers choose to use employees' PAYE payments as working capital for a few months as they have nobody else prepared to lend them it before finding they can't then make payments to HMRC etc etc………...Quote:
Originally Posted by dangermouse
It has happened before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Very informative but it didn't actually answer the question.
:na na:
Every club in the SPL, as it was, had a share in that league. The share held by the old Rangers was one of the assets transferred to Sevco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibayernian
Accordingly, Sevco had a vote.
Once they were voted out of the SPL, their share was transferred to Dundee.
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Not far from Christmas...Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
It was old Rangers who had a vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.c...he-indictment/
Summary of today in court
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Interesting stuff...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Archive photos there - I wonder if Craigie boy is still rocking his renaissance man look?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Interesting to see the charges laid out. Did Whyte (allegedly) always plan to collude with Green, or did he (allegedly) put together his plan b once he realised plan a was failing?
We would probably already know the outcome had the sports journalism community asked the proper questions or even splashed the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
There's been rumours about the stitch up for ages.
It looks like they are being charged with exactly what non sevconians said they were doing at the time. [emoji3]
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If they are found guilty of this it has to put a huge question mark over the legitimacy of the company and why they should even be allowed to continue within Scottish football. They were let into the league without the necessary 3 years accounts which looks like being a massive mistake. IF proved guilty the whole existence and continuation of the company must surely be in doubt. At the very least the SPFL can't allow it to continue it's membership, or am I getting ahead of myself? If a company is fraudulently set up what happens to it? Anyone??
I've no idea what happens. Do the assets get returned to BDO? Do the new club have to pay compensation to BDO?Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Emerald
The licence to re enter the In Div 3 was on condition that Craig Whyte was not being involved. Will it be revoked? (Don't answer that)
Should it be? Of course it should.
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but will the SFA? More chance of Christmas be cancelledQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The SFA's part in this is what I'm most interested in. Hopefully the the Sevco 7 don't go down without a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
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You sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
At the time of the vote, old Rangers were in liquidation, and all of their assets had been transferred to Sevco. One of those assets was the share in the SPL. Therefore only Sevco could have the vote IMO.
Thinking it through, why would old Rangers even want a vote? By that time, they were not a football club.
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If the criminal charges are proven, it will them be up to BDO to raise a civil case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They have the right to ask to have the transfer cancelled, and the assets returned to old Rangers. However, that's unlikely. It's probably too messy; the assets are at least 2 companies away, for one thing.
It would be more likely that they would sue the main players for the money.
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Agree, and they will emerge relatively unscathed as an institution this time around simply because the same culture exists in the corridors of Scottish football politics and if all else fails, they are the people-that usually does it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Got to love what their two previous messiahs almost got away with though.
Your in a different planet if you think Scottish Football is going to kill off Rangers. The company stuff is irrelevant the SPLF & SFA just won't kill off half the old firm. I doubt that even Hibs would vote them out of existence. Scottish football needs them as it needs all its big clubsQuote:
Originally Posted by Real Emerald
Key point here is that Whyte (allegedly) refunded £137,500 of the exclusivity fee paid by Green's consortium to Duff & Phelps. That's dynamite, and there's no way way this would be on the indictment if the CPS did not think they could prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by steakbake
One also wonders if SDM will be a witness. That might be interesting :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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So even though both of these companies are accused of aquiring the assets illegally, they would be allowed to keep them?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
And BDO would be left chasing Whyte and Green for some money?
Duff and Phelps malpractice insurance may cover it but surely they would want the assets recovered?
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I was under the impression that the SPL share automatically reverted to the SPL in the event of liquidation. If that's the case then Rangers (old) couldn't transfer it and therefore sevco never had it to vote with.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The fact remains, no matter how you dice it, that there were two entities in the room claiming to be Rangers.
One of them must have been lying.
So no matter the criminality, no matter the illegality and no matter the sheer illogical mess of it all Rangers FC floats about in the ether like an untouchable entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Are they just an omnipresent figment of faith like God?
No, they're like a steaming piece of s***e that always floats to the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
.
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That's the SFA licence you're thinking about, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
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The new companies would end up having to sell the assets. I can't see any way that they could do otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Not sure that BDO would want anything other than cash.
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The establishment and judiciary will have the whole outcome choreographed to Rangers advantage just as the pre pack administration made it simple for them in liquidation.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
They will find a way.
No, I'm quite aware of what will happen but the question needs to be asked. If the SPFL/SFA have a set of rules and criteria for a football club to satisfy in order to join and its proved in a criminal court they lied, set the company up by fraud, how can they keep their right to continue membership?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
The club's defence will be that the people accused have nothing to do with the club as it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Emerald
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I knew that would be the answer, the old victims again nonsense. If they got their membership through alleged lies and (huge) fraud, in any other organisation that would result in expulsion.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I think that's a fair argument but the counter argument would be that the Club calling itself Rangers only exist because of fraud, therefore should not be allowed to retain the SFA licence they fraudulently received.
I think the SFA/SPFL will be quite happy to overlook that and allow them to continue as if none of it ever happened.
On another note: I'm now convinced that Craig Whyte is not skint after all, as many News Outlets would have you believe. My evidence is the Arm Candy that accompanied him to the High Court. That kinda girl doesn't hang about with poor people. I'm not the least bit jealous.... ;-)
The Hootsmon is reporting the charges this morning.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotlan...#axzz3ooCxYH00
Any of the experts know what it means about the Wavetower Bank of Scotland deal? Why it contravenes the Companies Act?
It's the old "bad men did it and then they ran away defence" again - Scottish football authorities are happy to see it pleaded by the yam and the now defunct Glasgow rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
To be fair you could hardly call the last four of five messiahs to land at Ibrox good men and Vladimir Romanov has taken villainy and exploitation of the gullible to another level entirely.
This is the key😋Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Emerald
non bias journalists,social media and time will eventually force this issue to the surface.
how long it will take does not matter because the truth will out eventually :wink:
Magnificent reporting from the Scotsman, including this dreadful zeugma: "Mr Whyte, of Lancashire, arrived at the legal complex with long hair, a smart single breasted suit in the company of a woman."
Totally agree that the 'arm candy' isn't the type to hang around with penniless punters. Old Craigy has a nice we stash somewhere.
Think there's an interesting twist on the failure to disclose his disqualification as a company director to the SFA's 'fit and proper' hearing. Frankly if a convicted tax fraudster is 'fit and proper' then it's debatable whether or not a previous (and presumably served) ban from being a company director would have had any impact on the SFA's test. Especially if that man was a Rangers man and had off the radar wealth.
Is it just me or does anyone else think Whyte looks like Rik Mayall?
:greengrin Absolutely full-on Alan *******.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Sadly this is the case and no matter who the villains are of were, the top priority will be the well being and future stability of the football club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
As we saw with Hearts that applies to any club though. It's really hard to actually kill off a football club in the UK. Leeds and Portsmouth spring to mind as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Yip deep clean and sanitising to follow from various media sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Eye Candy eh?
JohnJames saying King has organised a Foundation of Hearts type scheme, pulling in direct debits from supporters and the Rangers Trust in return for shares to be issued in the future .
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...ds-on-the-fly/
Working my way through his negativity about such a scheme, I think it might be a decent earner for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
If Hearts can raise £120k per month, Rangers might be able to get about £4-500k. Not to be sniffed at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
True, but is it legal for a PLC company to have its future pre-sold without a share holders vote at least.
Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
But it wouldn't take much fancy-footwork to set up an HSL-type company to feed in the cash in the short term, and then deal with the future implications when they're... koff... back in the Premiership.
As we know, the ordinary punters aren't interested in returns on investments. 20k of them putting in £20 a month to "save wir club" ?... nae borra, big man.
Wonder when the fans will waken up and smell the coffee that King is a convicted fraudster.
Maybe if it looks like Hibs are going to give them a title race and it won't be over by February? Perhaps they will then start looking for his £30m he was bringing in (that we all know he doesn't have).
I also wonder which one of the MSM will be the first to break ranks and question something?
Wait and see her reaction when the cheque bounces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibayernian
:wink:
Chivalry is not dead :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
Nope, Arm Candy
:wink:
I see that bloke has been outed as a Celtic fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It looks very similar to the sort of share issue the yams had pre admin. Without shareholder consent that's all it can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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has he? got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
Funny thing with Huns, anyone who tries to point out whats happening isn't one of them Charlie couldn't quite believe it and now the King is enjoying the same blindness.
Ach, where's your creative spirit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:greengrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I think they will have a bit of recruiting to do.
I guess The Rangers Supporters Trust was the main organisation for the fans contributions. Chris Graham is a board member there and got 24 hours on the Ibrox board before past indiscretions came to light.
I have had a hunt for their accounts. They are actually the Rangers Supporters Society Ltd, registered under the Societies Acts 1965-78.
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/Annual_Return_and_Accounts.pdf
Latest accounts to April 2014 show income as £17,401 and expenditure of £ 18,125, a loss of £724. Their revenue account has £19,193 in it.
Their fund raising for shares purchase has raised £ 310,715.00 and they have £ 7123 in the bank for further share acquisitions.
All this info. is at 5th April 2014, but they were formed in 2003 so they will need step up big time if they are to save the good ship Sevco.
Try this link.
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/Annual_Return_and_Accounts.pdf