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I'm in total agreement with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
There is a fairly lengthy debate about this earlier on the thread at some point - amazingly some people didn't seem to think driving at 40 for no real reason on the bypass should be seen as a problem.:eek:
40 on edinburgh by pass is pretty good going most of the time. 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
It’s more than a peeve, it’s dangerous. If the road is moving freely the vast majority of people will be doing 70 or thereabouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Haha - there you are :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It'll be like that for the next year or so until these damn tram works are finished. Annoying thing is you never know what your in for each day. Tuesday morning it took me no more than 10 minutes to drive the same route at exactly the same time. There were no additional roadworks yesterday or any accidents. Some days the lights at the bottom of the Walk seem to be out of sync and that causes total gridlock on Easter Road onto Duke Street.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee_girl
There is an advert on Radio Forth at the moment which is trying to promote Leith and starts of with the line, have you taken a stroll down Leith Walk and Constitution Street recently. I always laugh when I hear that and think, aye and it's a f****** mess.
Yep, I sailed down Easter road this morning in less than 5 minutes yet yesterday the same journey at the same time took me over 30 minutes. Its so frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFKA5814_Hibs
Too slow, A1 between Haddington and Dunbar, mild traffic. 70 mile an hour limit. My vans limited to 62 MPH and I ended up having to overtake someone that looked like they were standing still. Even HGV’s were having to swerve out to overtake.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
People who block an exit by being pricks, came out to work and at the end of Stanley street there's a white van right across the junction waiting at the lights, a quick toot and a few curses and I had to go on the other side of the road to turn right.
Where in SaulGoodmans post does he mention the speed of the road? As I said, he could have been taking about Calder Rd or the A8 for all I know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Not all dual carriageways are 70mph, and none are for all vehicles.
Again, SG's post did not specify what road they were talking about. How do we know 40 was too slow?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
Incidentally, I take it you mean your van is limited to 60 for the A1 where it is dual carriageway, 50 for single lane?
But.. I am SG mate.. and the whole point in my reply was to answer your question about what road it was on :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Mechanically limited to 62 for clarification as well.
The vast majority of dc’s are high speed, 60/70mph in my experience. 40mph on those roads is dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Why would anyone be critical of someone doing the speed limit on Calder road?
The speed limit is just that a limit, it's not there as a recommend speed. If there are minimum speed limits then they too have to be adhered to, otherwise drivers need to expect to encounter vehicles travelling at different speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
Sure it’s been mentioned before but the dual carriageway from Crammond to the bridges being a 40 for a large stretch of it, then a 50 is completely unnecessary. Could/should be national speed limit, even if that was outside peak times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
It was to slow cars down approaching Crammond Crescent just after Miller and Carter, before they used come flying down off the dual carriageway at speeds of 50-60 mph.
And subsequently on the way out of town the same limits must be applied, unfortunately 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The 40 limit ends when you drive past the Miller and Carter but the 40 limit starts far too early before the Miller and Carter heading into town, a fair distance before the slip road coming from Kirkliston.
The 40 out of town continues about a mile past the Cramond Brig. The 50 starts at the same place the 40 starts on the way in to town.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Surely you can understand the danger of someone doing just over half the speed limit when the majority of people will doing 60-70+ on these roads?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
In Germany trucks are restricted to the equivalent of 56MPH but in many parts of the Autobahn system cars are unrestricted. Having said that, I think that some manufacturers restrict them to a mere 155 MPH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
That the death rate isn't astronomical is down to the Germans being better drivers than us.
no it doesn’t, it’s 40 until much further along the road where it changes to a 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
He can't - he argued previously that it was totally OK to do so, despite the police thinking otherwise. What you are saying is so obviously correct to me, but you'll end up going round in circles with a few on here trying to defend people driving dangerously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
The fact you would fail your driving test for unneccesarily doing 40 in a 70 should really be the end of the discussion.
Is it as far as that, have to check next time I'm going that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yep. Most people don't see the 40 sign beside the Brig and just assume it's a 50 there.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Must go back to 50 at the Kirkliston exit then.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Sure it's just before the left hand sweeping bend near DalmenyQuote:
Originally Posted by J-C
When half way over the entrance line to a roundabout a vehicle flies on to said roundabout without slowing and hits the horn because I've apparently cut them off! Happens regularly to me anyway.
Oh I can, it's extremely rare for anyone to be pulled by the police for driving too slow as there is no national minimum speed limit, there'd have to be other factors involved before they'd charge anyone. There's all sorts of reasons why someone might be driving slower than the maximum speed limit, if you drove into the back of a slow moving vehicle, chances are it would be you that would be charged with driving without due care and attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
Happened to me today, the fud was still raging miles later. Think he was more unhappy that his van wasn't fast enough to overtake my van.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart-farquhar
The reason there is no national speed limit is because its incredibly difficult to police. Because as you point out there are some ( not all sorts of) valid times when cars have to go slowly on a motorway/ bypass. Like when crawling in slow moving congested traffic or coming to a standstill at for eg sherifhall roundabout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
But no one on this thread is talking about getting peeved at cars going 40 in those scenarios. It's about cars unnecccessarily dawdling along at 40 because they arent competent drivers, which is totally unacceptable to any right minded person.
Your last point is completely irrelevant to the topic as well - no one is arguing the contrary to that.
You don't know what the circumstances are for the car doing 40 on a dual carriageway or motorway. As an example a mechanical problem which I've had was my car going into limp home mode. On a dual carriageway I would have stuck the hazard lights on and made my way to the next lay-by, as it was on a single carriageway section of the A9 I pulled over onto the grass verge. There are many reasons for driving slower than you are. I mean I am in the countryside and we have a lot of farm traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
I agree, it's also true though, that someone driving at a significantly different speed to every one else is exposing themselves (and others) to more danger than if we were all travelling at the same speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It's why we have things like the think horse/bike campaigns every so often.
You came out with this nonsense last time :tee hee:. If your car is limping along in a 70 you should be pulling into the hard shoulder and phoning for a mechanic/tow truck. Anyway you two are clearly on here at the wind up, it's dangerous to drive too slowly without reason. If you are genuinely not on the wind up then neither of you should be able to get behind a wheel, and good luck to anyone who has the misfortune of being one of your passengers.:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
People driving bog standard wee cars who turn left at a junction or into a street so slowly you'd think it was an arctic they were driving.
As I said, unless you are aware of the reason for them driving slower than others you should not criticise.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
I also said that when I did have a mechanical problem I pulled off the road onto the verge.
There are no hard shoulders on dual carriageways or modern 'smart' motorways.
If you find that you come up behind a slow moving vehicle, be it a car, lorry, tractor or caravan and need to brake or swerve then it is you that is driving without due care and attention.
Totally!!! Folk that can't turn at traffic lights either to the extent that the lights change so you can't get through yourself!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Understandable to slow down in freezing conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Usually turning away from the corner first to widen the angle - it’s a tiny car, you don’t need to widen the angle!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Even worse, the idiots that turn left from the outside lane because they don’t understand when they can use bus lanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Not talking about freezing conditions, happened this morning at the foot of Brighton Cres at the lights, nearly missed the lights because it took her so long to turn left in her Clio.Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
Just my attempt at a joke – re-read your first post.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
😀👍Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
Haha WHOOSHQuote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The problem is that you have both stated in this thread that you think people should be able to drive at 40 in a 70 if they feel like it - on that point, you are both wrong. Nothing else you say is really of any relevance - merely backtracking and changing your position and bringing up irrelevances without actually admitting that you are wrong on your assertion. :na na:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
p.s There are hard shoulders on dual carriageways and motorways in Scotland.
Someone driving at 40 on a 70 and someone flashing hazards at any speed are different circumstances. Driving without due care and attention is other people coming up behind, consideration for other road users is the dicks well below the posted speed.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Says who? It's perfectly legal to drive at 40(+) on a motorway?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
There are not always hard shoulder on dual carriageway....
I personally enjoy when folk just blat along at a decent speed, but sometimes you can't, if folk choose not to do so you have to drive at their chosen rate until it's safe to overtake.
I'm not convinced folk driving at slower speeds are always the risk their made out to be. Sometimes, maybe, it's the for in ahurry that might be the risky party?!?
That's not what I said, and you know it. Again, unless you know what the circumstances are you have no right to criticise other drivers. Maybe they just had a close thing and are in shock, you just don't know. What you need to consider is your responsibility to other road users.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
And show me where there is a hard shoulder on any dual carriageway in Scotland. They don't exist!
But you did say it, earlier on the thread. You said that you were in full agreement with another poster who said that "drivers should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
If you would just now admit that is a ridiculous position to take then things will be much better.
Show you where there is a hard shoulder on a dual carriageway in Scotland? How about the one thousands of drivers pass by every week on the Edinburgh city bypass? There is even a picture for you in the link below :wink:
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...berton-3352987
The A720 must be the only dual carriageway that has 'some' hard shoulder, certainly not the full length of the road, because none of the A9 from Keir roundabout to birnam has, a distance of 40 miles!Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
The only people who I have seen driving below the national speed limit for any distance are those who are driving electric vehicles and are concerned about range or who have not seen the speed limit signs.
However, the driver who can't see the car is driving slowly is the one that is a danger to others.
How do you know that?! Even if those are the reasons then it doesn't matter as they are terrible reasons and are clearly driving with out care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Your last sentence is inaccurate btw. In that scenario both the slow car and anyone who doesnt notice it going slowly is a danger to others.
I wonder what you are like when you come across some cyclists 🤔 Mr roadrage I imagine because they aren't going as fast as you want them to!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
On your last point, if the driver at 70 isn't on the ball and crashes into the 40 mph guy then they're both in the collision and both were at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
If the 40 was at 70 then the issue wouldn't have happened (by eliminating the 70mph persons poor performance from being a factor)
It's not the person's "fault' they were driving at 40 but the fact remains doing 40 amongst a lot of cars doing 70 exposes you to more danger, in exactly the same way as breaking down and needing to sit on the hardshoulder raises it even more, despite being off the actual main carriageway. It's why the highway code advises you to leave the car and sit up on the banking.
Have to say I’ve been enjoying the cut and thrust of these slow driving posts, although it seems to have developed into a bit of a stand off.
Thought I’d throw my tuppence worth in. In certain places there are minimum speed signs, they do exist in the UK. I’ve never seen one, but they are commonly used in tunnels, they are a circular sign with a blue background with the minimum speed quoted on them usually 30mph and the same sign with a Red Cross through them when the minimum speed zone ends. So you can go even slower if you like. :greengrin
Likewise you can be stopped and prosecuted by the police if they consider your speed is slow enough to constitute a danger to other road users but in most cases there would be a verbal warning given.
My nephew failed his driving test for driving at 40 on a 60 road.
My brother in law also failed his test for driving at 20-25 MPH in the centre of Pitlochry in summer. His response was it's safer because of all the tourist with no road sense. Guess what, it's now a 20MPH zone!Quote:
Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby
I was advised that when sitting a practical driving test, you must demonstrate to the examiner that you're aware of the posted limit on the road you're driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby
The easiest way to do that is to drive between the posted limit and the one below. So in your nephews case, he probably would have been fine if he'd sat just above the 50.
Says who? The police, driving instructors and the RAC amongst others. It's not always pefectly legal to drive at 40 on a motorway. Its just not that black and white - it depends on the circumstances and the intrepretation of the police. Anyone driving significantly below 50 when there doesn't appear to be a good reason for it runs the risk of being pulled by the police.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Im not claiming to be an expert on this, im just listening to the advice of those who are experts rather than following some peoples gut on here who think its ok to dawdle along for the sake of it.
Wrong again pal:na na:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
He probably shouldn't have listened to you telling him he could drive as slowly as he liked and paid a bit more attention to his driving instructor!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Common sense says keep up with the general traffic flow. Driving at 40mph on a fast moving 70 mph limit road is asking for trouble.
I came across this on the bypass last week: a tow truck pulling a car at 20 mph, half in the inside lane and the gutter.
Luckily the traffic was quiet....
Been a couple of days since this was posted and I've ruminated over it, and even asked my wifes step-sisters brother-in-law (I know, rumours from Greggs incoming) who is a road policing officer up in Perth. He confirmed there's no legal minimum limit on motorways and said they only way he'd ticket someone doing 40 or less is if there was some outstanding marker on the car/driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
His attitude was that it's poor drivers that drive too fast that cause the vast majority of issues on the road, not poor drivers that drive too slow.
I'm genuinely not trying to be contrary here, I've just spent the best part of the afternoon traveling back to Edinburgh from the Cowal peninsula and was stuck for long sections doing 40 in a posted 60 because of slower vehicles but I never for one minute thought that the motorhomes, caravans and HGV's up ahead were a danger. The few folk that tried (and failed) to overtake at inappropriate sections however....
Great Post. As an ex paramedic, I've never witnessed a road death due to someone driving too slow, it's always been those that think the road belongs to them and only how they drive is the correct way to drive. There are many different vehicles and drivers with different capabilities, the road belongs to everyone and not just those who think they're king of the road, a good driver is someone who can appreciate that our roads are for everyone and who can react accordingly, if you can only cope with traffic moving at the same speed, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
This is an awful post - your posts on this topic are really irresponsible actually. Motorways and dual carriageways belong to everyone? Nonsense - why do you think bicycles and 50cc scooters are banned from them? Because they drive too slowly and will cause danger to themselves and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
To quote the AA President, Edmund King: "Driving like a snail can be as dangerous as driving like a cheetah". Slow driving can cause crashes. https://www.itv.com/news/2018-12-29/...y-slow-drivers.
Where does he say motorways and dual carriageways belong t to everyone????Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
You really need to take a step back before posting!!!
However if your capabilities mean you aren't able to keep up reasonable speed then maybe you shouldn't be driving on dual carriageways or motorways. Take an alternative route or take additional lessons to build confidence and skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
£1.96/litre of diesel at the tesco near me today. £99 and it only filled just past the 3/4 mark in the tank.
****ing ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
My work have allowed me to work from home for 3 days per week, and I genuinely feel like I couldn’t afford to do more from the office. I’ve got a 60 mile a day commute so they’re saving me 180 miles a week thankfully.
It’s over £8 a gallon now ..if you get 50 MPG. That’s saving you around 30 quid a week …almost £1500 quid a year …(taking in the account holidays etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
If you drive at 45 instead of 70, then you will save a lot on fuel costs. Mind you you might get lynched for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
I read that 55 mph was the optimum speed for fuel efficiency. Can't remember where I read it though and no idea if it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
The average car uses 17% more fuel at 70 mph than doing 56 mph. Years since I read this and no idea if this is true of modern cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
It's not, the statistic comes from a time where only 3 speeds were taken into consideration and were supposed to represent urban, rural and motorway driving. Modern vehicles have the least fuel consumption when travelling between 40 and 50 mph.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
According to howstuffworks it's somewhere between 40 and 60 mph for best fuel consumption depending on size and shape of vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Maybe some of those vehicles holding everybody up and potentially causing carnage are being driven in the most fuel efficient way
A man drove from the east coast of the USA to the west coast and averaged 83 mpg.
His tip was to not exceed 2000 rpm and ignore the speedometer. Not suggesting this would work in city traffic but on a long drive perhaps.
Are you for real? The whole conversation is clearly about 70 mph roads, i.e motorways and dual carriageways. Try to keep up pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
:agree: Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SChibs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
You might save a wee bit money on fuel costs, but you will also lose time out your life. And you'll also likely contribute to slowing down traffic which could include vehicles delivering food, drink and medicine, people going to medical appointments, job interviews, college lessons, work meetings etc.
So selfish and inconsiderate as well as dangerous.
Lucky to get going as fast as 40 most of the day on the city bypass and when you do sheriff hall just causes a bigger holdup than any slower drivers ever do.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
You'r wasting your breathe, apparently if you can't drive at the speed limit you're incapable of driving and are a danger to everyone else. But the city by-pass is safe because there are hard shoulders on every dual carriageway and motorway, despite that being absolutely untrue!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
I drive along it and back every Monday and Tuesday morning and routinely drive at 70.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
Nobody has actually said that. You actually tried to claim that no dual carriageways had hard shoulders, which was proven to be nonsense. You've got yourself in a right muddle again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
That must explain the average of 40 accidents a year (FOI request 2015-2018)Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
You're not wrong, can be a nightmare at (most!) times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killiehibbie
Why would me driving safely along the bypass at 70 twice a week for the last 2 years explain that there were an average of 40 accidents a year on the Edinburgh Bypass between 2015 and 2018? Going to start calling you Roger Irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
98 journeys a year, 40 accidents a year, you claim to be driving at 70 on the road while number of people saying that you are lucky to average over 40 means statistically you could be involved in 40% of all accidents on the bypass 🤔😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
What the hell are you on about?:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Very simple, sorry if you can't keep up. You are doing 98 journeys a year, there are 40 accidents a year, so, for every journey you are likely to be involved in an accident 40% of the time, but, judging by your attitude towards other drivers you are likely to be oblivious!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
How, just how, are you making that assumption? :faf: That doesn't make any sense. There is absolutely no correlation between the 2 figures and that random percentage you have come up with.
As for your last sentence, full on irony - as you are the one advocating that people drive selfishly & dangerously.
https://www.think.gov.uk/themes/speed/Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
https://www.think.gov.uk/campaign/be-the-mate-who-wont-speed/
https://www.fiaregion1.com/slowing-saves-lives/
https://www.slowspeedingkills.com/
Funny how no one campaign for road safety has been about speeding up, all the about slowing down. It must make you wonder why anyone would want to drive fast? 🤔
Arithmetic not your strongest subject 🤔😉Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
Glad you've given up trying to explain what your wacky nonsensical stat was all about. An impossible task.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Why are you making the point that driving over the speed limit is dangerous though? No one has tried to suggest otherwise and I agree completely. It has nothing to do with the fact that driving too slowly can be dangerous. Roger Irrelevant.
You are surely at the wind up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Your figures are nonsense! Please just tell me you are at the wind up.
Open another bottle lads !
Probably because speeding costs more lives than slow drivers. It doesn't mean that slow drivers aren't a problem, they just aren't as much of a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It's almost like we needed something sensible 👍😁Quote:
Originally Posted by SChibs
Speed kills but slow drivers are an inconvenience.
I've no skin in your argument with LaMotta - but this 40% thing has been bugging me and I want to know the solution. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
My running theories are that LaMotta is the only user of the bypass or he's responsible for all 40 crashes...
I forgot he/she said they drove the bypass each way 2x a week so they should witness/be involved in 20% of accidents a year rather than the 40% I said initially.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
The suggestion that they are able to drive safely at an average of 70mph on bypass however doesn't stand up to scrutiny by my, and others experience. 😉
Seriously mate your first paragraph still makes absolutely no sense. There is no logic in it at all. If anyone else can make sense of it please help out here:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
BTW I never said I drove at an average of 70mph, I said I routinely drive at 70mph on the bypass as do many others. Of course there are times when it's not possible, but saying you can rarely get above 40 is not true in my experience.
I'll wager that I will hit 70 tomorrow as well. And safely:wink:. Will provide an update when home, I'm sure people will be excited to know the outcome.:hyper
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaMotta
I drive down the bypass every Monday and will hit 70mph regularly between Dreghorn and Gilmerton junction, I don't know what percentage of accidents I'll cause but I an driving at the speed limit of the road.
Your 1st paragraph like a few of your other posts on this thread make no sense at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns