Hearts still won't admit they have a problem though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
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Hearts still won't admit they have a problem though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
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Originally Posted by Mikey
I like him. :flag:
The more this goes on, the more this is the only fair sporting outcome open to the SFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Much as I'd personally like to see them eviscerated to the extent of permament extinction, it is a sad fact that there are enough of these repugnant reptiles to ensure they keep going as rfc2012. Actually going down might be a boost for the game - full houses in div 3 and 2 and 1 as they come back up, possibly humbler (although that's a long shot, I know). It'd be a abugger if you were relegated form div 2 the year the huns got promoted though.
Dream scenario would be Hearts and Rangers battling it out fo rthe 3rd division crown next season. That would be very funny. Do they still do the B&Q Cup in some form?
I sincerely hope you are right. As I say, I think this is the one window of opportunity to save the Scottish game for the future. We'll see if the powers that be have the stomach for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed :agree:!
Liquidation I think..............
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Originally Posted by archiecoby
May I just say to all at Rangers :giruy:
Can we not just get Rentokil in to sort out this mess?
A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.
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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
-How is that possible? They already make the BNP look credible.
1 million a month, where they gonna get that from? these administrators aren't half dragging their heals. Shut them down.
Fair play, but I rather see them as being like the likes of the Peronists in Argentina.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Aaaaaggghhhh!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
I thought 'how is that possible?'
Then I thought it through, and you could be right. Take the existing white trash bigoted lowlife fan base, and shear it of its sense of entitlement, pomp, and delusions of grandeur of being the team of 'the crown and the British establishment in Scotland', and add a good measure of hunted, persecuted bitterness. The only place for it to go is to resurrect as some pseudo sporting falangist movement.
Have Hearts been informed?
Save a million a month, not a problem - start with sensible wages £2000 a week maximum, and do they really need 13 in media dept and 22 in marketing, never mind 20 coaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by archiecoby
Operate like Inverness or St Johnston and they could repay all their debts in 10 years.
Oh, but I forgot they believe that -- " They Deserve Better " :wink:
Time for the calculators to come out I think. Rallying call is to fill Ibroke from now until the season end. Against Killie, we could all hear the "fans" that had been missing. So, it is extra revenue, less the repeat fines for the open racism from the stands? That might just even itself out.
Wash your mouth out with soap young man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Agree. It's looking more and more likely that Rangers will go into liquidation as opposed to a "blue knight" coming to the rescue. The revelations by Hugh Adam in the Daily Mail are mind boggling. If the SFA are complicit in ignoring the EBT issue then I doubt any investor will go near Rangers with a barge pole until the whole sorry mess is exposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropley10
If they do try for re-entry into the SPL then we must all write to the Hibs board expressing our disagreement. I never thought I"d stop getting a ST for anything other than financial pressure but I'd have to think seriously if I'd bother if they get back in.
Loving their demise :giruy:
In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.
What's sauce for the goose, etc.
(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.
Two different situations , FR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
We were able to restructure and trade out of it. We paid our taxes. We didn't stiff any other clubs. We didn't stiff anybody, IIRC. (except maybe Messrs. Duff, Gray and Rowland.)
RFC are absolutely unable to trade out of this, without the silliest of silly money coming their way from the silliest of silly people.
'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.
Well, I dunno about you, but that has certainly changed my mind.:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I'm 50-50 :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Aye but then they're no in 21st century Scotland, they're still in 17th :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I welcome their demise http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rsurrender.gif
Says little for the Church of Scotland, that the Protestant faith is having to rely on a discredited football club to carry the torch. At times of dilemma like this, I tend to find myself asking - what wpuld Mason Boyne do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Exactly. Bigoted dinosaurs. It beggars belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it -Quote:
Originally Posted by tamig
I can understand what most of you are saying and have indeed felt that way at time times. What I would say to you is this.
The Rangers Football Club, as you know is more than just a club. At one point it represented the Protestant community in Scotland and still does for the most part. The Tarriers hate this.
If Rangers, the company dies, Rangers the club will live on in a new form. That club will still represent the Protestant community in Scotland. The Tarriers will hate this but also fear and envy this. We must not desert Rangers for if we do, we desert the other Bluenoses we know and Scotland will be left to 'them'.
A new Rangers can be 'our Rangers'. The Gallant men who formed the club in the first place would at first probably be amazed, then appalled that it has come to this. However, I believe that they would be proud that the club would be taken into the hands of those who love it most, just like those young men. They will hate this.
Rangers must survive in some form but more importantly, the people who currently support the club must hold firm and stick together. That is the strong point. It is 'us' they hate and by killing Rangers they think that if they kill the focal point then we will disappear. We will not. Never. They will hate this.
If the worst scenario happens and the company that is The Rangers is liquidated, we come back and our aim is to make sure that they not only remain the second most successful club in Scotland but become the third most successful. The Rangers will be the most successful for a long time yet.
I'd have to!Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
It is one worry that's being played out a bit. In times of stress the lowest denominator gets a chance to come to the fore. There is a real danger that any new Rangers would be an even worse version of all that was wrong with the previous one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
You getting cold feet, boy? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
I've got to agree Andy, I dinnae see the attraction either!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
That is pure bile. I find it hard to understand why there are still people in this age who feel this way. The sad thing as well is that the writer has probably never set foot in a church other than for weddings or funerals. These people do not belong in 21st century Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
A million a month to get to end of season. Surely the can be made up from wages? across the board reduction as has been quoted of 50%. Ally gonna work for free.
I wouldn't rule out deluded huns managing to cough it up between them.
It will be intersting to see who is prepared to give up what though and which high earners will be looking for free as a result of breach of contract come end of season
Rangers will make the end of the season but then I suspect the real fun will begin .
Craig Whyte surely is a Celtic fan in disguise or a modern day del boy.
Fun times
Watch the SFA save them though. There will be no relegation and the 11 majority vote will some how survive
Their antics have pandered to the lowest common denominator for 140 years and have caused problems ever since. Any new Rangers could only have a fraction of the strength of its the current set up. The days of their imagined supremacy are long since gone, so whilst they still occupy the 17th century the rest of the world has moved on without them. They remind me of the bigots in the American deep south who tried clinging to their social supremacy in the 1960s, only for the tide of change to sweep them away. They can't fight the tide of history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Jeez:confused: Last hope or last chance of dragging the corpse over the line into the 20th Century just after the rest of the modern British football supporting community are charging into the 21st? Just die boys, or set up some other narrow minded institutions that you can maybe attend every match day when the rest of us are watching football. If enough of you have spare time on your hands you could maybe call it a lodge, or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
We'll do just fine without you and your like.
Have to say Sally Magnusson is a guilty pleasure for me at 6.30pm most nights. Incredible that she is 56yrs old!!:cbQuote:
Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY
Spike, your love of MILF is moving the debate off track......Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Any pics? :cb
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...n_2108654b.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Have to say I marginally prefer Desert Orchid, even allowing for the similarities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
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Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
Ooooooohhhhhhh I've started so I'll finish ahhhhhhhhhh that's better!:cb
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Originally Posted by Cropley10
I, like you and a lot of other here are trying to guess the ins and outs of what this is all about and who owes what exactly, I suppose we'll just keep guessing till the administrators spill all the beans.
Didn't know exactly, just a guestimate :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
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Originally Posted by BSEJVT
Ticketus wasn't mentioned, they get their money every year the fans pay their season tickets, their money's safe.
With the state of play at the huns even the most die hard fan would be mad to commit to a season ticket(especially if the cash goes to secured creditor Whyte?). So surely if no one buys a season then ticketus are screwed for getting their cash back??
Not too sure, but with them owning say thirty thousand st's the currants wouldn't be able to sell tickets for these seats. ,;)Quote:
Originally Posted by brianmc
With the threat of redundancies etc. postponed until next week, do you think that the PFA and players have been playing hardball? Presumably if D&P reduced wages without their agreement, the players can claim breach of contract and withdraw their services and RFC couldn't field a team. I assume there are significant financial penalties for them if that was to happen which is why D&P are playing nice with the players?
As I've said before CWG, whether the charge is effective or not depends on the terms of the loans between RFC and RFCG and that would require sight of the loan and security documentation!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
We're just going to have to wait till the Administrators have reviewed that and decided how to proceed thereafter!
Option of breach of contract disappears with administration. "Don't like the wage reduction, no problem here's your p45." D&P will not (and more importantly cannot) be held to ransom by some truculent players.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfie
Truculent managers on the other hand..........Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCarpets
Not if they're liquidated, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by jc1
And even if they survive admin (somehow) the Hun can simply not by a ST and Ticketless get nothing...
Quote from todays Daily Express. "SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan is confident the SFA's Independent Enquiry into the on-going problems at rangers will be brought to a close this week"
Assuming that is accurate, am I the only one that thinks this has been concluded with unseemly haste? After all we are getting fresh revelations and accusations made on a daily basis. Surely the SFA is not attempting to wind this up before the real dirty washing is on display. I am wondering whether in fact the enquiry should not have been conducted by UEFA so as to increase the likelihood of genuine independent comment and openness. Few would question the verdict and SFA/SPL would not be able to squirm out of the findings if they went against their beloved rangers.
I guess it depends on the findings.Quote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
Yes, but those findings can only be based on what we already know. My point is that there appears to be a lot more dirt under the fingernails than we have seen to date. If the SFA publish something this coming week surely it has to be an interim finding :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
Are D&P doing their job right?
Reported £!M per month shortfall. They have they been there 3 weeks and not one cost cutting measure. If I was owe money I would be absolutely livid.
They have got rid of Smith and Russell. Not much admittedly but it was a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
I have to say though that I agree with the sentiment of your post and I am a bit suspicious of their role in this whole affair.
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Originally Posted by CentreLine
Maybe the SFA are just trying to get it over an done with then move on ,or maybe the utter uselessness of how they perform on a daily basis would come to light with a UEFA investigation, the players contracts are a starter for 10.
As far as I understand it, their primary role is to keep Rangers solvent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
I wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
It's not just about cutting costs. They have to maximise income too.
Being able to establish the story about the Ticketus cash, and get the missing cash back, was a big step.
They also have to have an eye on the potential sale of the club. There is a balancing act between keeping saleable assets, which boost the selling value of the club, and cutting current costs.
Not quite. It's to look after the interests of the creditors and shareholders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
It seems they may have.Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoHibby
From Today's Record:-
The Record understands that administrators believe Whyte has no power to break up the club’s assets and keep Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park for himself.
If this is true, it is very significant. Establishing this is a big step, and gives me comfort that the admins are doing things the right way.
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Originally Posted by CentreLine
I think you can bet that there will be Celtic fans all over the globe feverishly sending off email to Geneva as we speak, insisting that UEFA start poking around in earnest.
And I hope they do.
:agree:
That reminds me, I must send an email to Rangers and thank them for bringing such drama and excitement to an otherwise stale and boring SPL setup. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by johnrebus
Particularly kind of them considering that things have gone quiet over at our usual source of entertainment at the PBS.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuanH78
Agreed, Vlad clearly not wanting to steal the limelight. Such a magnanimous chap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
To be honest, I always felt he at least had a point about that albeit delivered in the craziest way he could manage.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
That actually is a decent gesture from them, luckily though they wont have far to travel from Cowdenbeath and Glenrothes.
If this is true, then I for one actually am impressed by this. Their own team is in trouble and a certain amount of fans are actually thinking about a far smaller team that their clubs actions have harmed. A very honourable action. GGTTHQuote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
If they actually turn up.Quote:
Originally Posted by southern hibby
Definitely to be applauded if it takes place.Quote:
Originally Posted by southern hibby
In the rush to 'enjoy' this situation, I think some folk tend to forget that not all Rangers fans are knuckle dragging bigoted morons.
Even a couple of hundred local bloaters who pretend to be Huns, leaving their replica tops at home and waddling along to East End from their local boozer would help DAFC at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
I'll need to see some proof of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
I too, require some physical evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If they leave with ten minutes to go, then you'll know they're Huns.
Still a nice gesture though.
At the moment, it's all hypothetical until we find out exactly what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropley10
Thats my viewQuote:
Originally Posted by Cropley10
Ticketus's arrangement is with the current LTD Co
That will fall and I think Ticketus will be an unsecured creditor to the current Ltd co
Only in the event of liquidation. While the administration continues, the only liability would be for any repayments that are currently due.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
I also understand that Ticketus have insurance in place that would cover their outlay in the event of liquidation.
Whyte got security over Ibrox and Murray Park when Lloyds Bank was paid off . I'd be amazed if Ticketus did'nt get at least a second ranking security over those assets if they were putting up £ 24 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
There isn't one.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
The only security is in favour of the holding company, which the admins now seem to think is invalid.
Don't forget that Ticketus aren't a lender. They bought 100k season tickets; that is their security, underpinned by the insurance I mentioned. CW also claims he has guaranteed the deal, although that might be Whyte.
How much did we owe HMRC? And how many illegal contracts did we have :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
You don't need to be a lender to get a security, liquidation was always a likely outcome so I would be surprised if the deal was done without some sort of back-up. There would be no necessity to record the security and Ticketus might be playing their cards close to see how things pan out.:aok:
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Originally Posted by southern hibby
yet this 'honourable' action will not be extended to dundee utd ? indeed , they want to boycott tannadice, honourable ?? pppfffffffftt
I hope they go into liquidation, I hope Hearts do too.
Why?
Because they seem to think they can spend money they haven't got without any consequence. Well there has to be a consequence, if that means Rangers or Hearts go down to third division then so be it.
They cannot and should not be allowed any favours.
Sky Sports news on the day the Rangers news broke....on the ticker at the bottom......Rangers go into administration........Rangers bring in Daniel Cusin....you really couldn't make this **** up!
Hearts..bring in Craig Beattie!! WTF is going on, is nobody learning any lessons here? Punishments need meated out and no just a mere 10 points either. RANT OVER!
The Dons fans have taken a compassionate view on things as you'd expect :greengrin
Should never turn down revenue generating opportunities I suppose.
http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092
With the Huns on the way out, Vlad might see this as an opportunity to spend money he doesn't have as 2nd place and CL footie will be assured for anyone with a bit of drive/ambition. Don't expect Petrie and the Hibs Board to spot any opportunities from the Huns demise - just a loss of revenue:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlest Hobo
I really hope your wrong but it would not surprise me if Vlad started wasting more money on the inbreeds, that's assuming he has got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
This should be a party held at every ground in Scotland :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras
I was under the impression that all securities and charges needed to be recorded at Companies House.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Like I say, the back-up is the insurance and, if it exists, the CW underwriting.
Not sure why they are taking this stance with Dundee utd. However kids have to learn to walk before they can run. For the record I can't stand them, with their we are the people shi**y attitude but if some fans did turn up then I do feel it's an honourable gesture. Still hope their team dies though. GGTTHQuote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?
That could be a great weekend. Rangers going into liquidation and the Hibees beating Hearts in the Derby :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Peter Lawell may put in a bid to merge Celtic and Rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Where have we heard this sort of thing before
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I suspect it's a tool to try and push people to make offers. Personally, I think it would be daft for anyone to make an offer before the result of the Big Tax Case is in.
If there are no offers, the next move would be to try and get the creditors to agree on a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement, which basically is an agreement that those who are owed money get x pence in the £. They need 75% of creditors (in value) to agree to that. HMRC are one of the biggest creditors, and it's their policy not to agree to CVA's. (despite what Traynor was saying on the radio this afternoon).
They will keep at that process until there's clearly no hope of it happening. By then, the BTC result will probably be known. If it's favourable to RFC, the admins will re-start the sale process. If it's not, it's goodnight.
Thanks for the insight, CWG. You've been a big help to those of us who know little or nothing about administration/insolvency/financial shennanigans.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
In relation to the CVA, are HMRC only one of the biggest creditors if Rangers lose the big tax case of circa £49 million, or whatever the amount is? If Rangers win that case, isn't Craig Whyte the biggest creditor due to the whole one pound he put in? :greengrin
Cheers.. just remember I'm only one page ahead of you in the book :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
HMRC are already due £15m, just for the period since CW took over, for unpaid PAYE and VAT. That stands, irrespective of the BTC. If RFC win that, the £15m is still due.
The reason I say "one of the biggest creditors" is because I am not sure how Ticketus stand in the administration. Some on here reckon they are due the full £24m, but I think they are only due what is currently payable, about £6m. My view is that the full £24m only comes into play in the event of liquidation.... but I am really not sure about that.
As for Craigy.....if everyone was to get paid in full, he would be at the tail end of the queue, and would get a nice shiny pound. :cb
Do you reckon that deadline is to give them 2 weeks to get a CVA sorted and get them out of administration in time for Eurpopean deadline, or have they resigned themselves to missing out on Europe next season?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I reckon all the smart minds have written off Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Isn't the 31 March deadline about the accounts, though? If they're not with the SFA by then, then Europe is a no-go.
In any event, I can't see a CVA being sorted out in two weeks. HMRC will block it, and then block it again...etc etc.
According to the radio they almost got a sell out today. The full house signs didn't last long then. So much for the fans getting behind the club. Sooner they die the better.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../mccoistbf.gif
Courtesy of Desperate Dan :greengrin
Aye of course, the unpaid PAYE and NI since Whyte took over. Now if they require the agreement of 75% of creditors (notwithstanding the BTC) for a CVA, and assuming HMRC won't agree to one, that means they need approx £40 - £60 million (depending on the amount of unpaid tax post-Whyte) of other creditors to possibly get their CVA. This is impossible. So, they plough on until the BTC judgment, and either stay in administration until they win it, or liquidate if they lose it. Is that right?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Today was always going to be the beginning of the end, IMO. Their last home game (and big pay day)for a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
If all had gone to plan, and the redundancies had been decided this week, today would have been the chance for the fans to say cheerio to the sacked players.
The next home game is against Celtic, who might be able to win the League that day. It will either be one last show of defiance from the Bears, or else there will be no one there except the Tims!!