Nevertheless, there's a pro-indy majority of MSPs in the Parliament. That must be really annoying, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Nevertheless, there's a pro-indy majority of MSPs in the Parliament. That must be really annoying, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
only if you are undemocratic...Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
Just look at all the hoops being jumped through, the twists and turns etc in support of Brexit... that's not even taking onto account we ended up with a much harder version than the vote had decided on.
Actually, on the party list vote, a majority voted for Indy parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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That might actually mean something if all Lib Dem and Labour voters were pro union.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Not really as any indyref that might take place one day will be decided on overall votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Well what are you worried about then?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Second vote counts for nothing. You only get one vote in a referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Worried , who’s worried , I ain’t been worried since 21/5/2016 90+2 to final whistle :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
I just don’t think tax payers money should be spent on what’s looks like an illegal program .
How much is Gove and his departments spending on his role as defender of the union?
Can you tell me more about the Scottish assembly?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Not true. I know it wasn't huge, but all votes taken together, even accounting for the unionist tactical voting, the pro independence parties had around 40,000 majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Don't believe me? No worries I'll check the spreadsheet I did at the time. 😉
If Scotland didnae have something like 20 or 30ish percent total balloons who vote for UJ flag due to they’re thick supportin sevco & poppy theives a very different picture would be painted.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Thats counting two votes each , yeah ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
A lot of second votes going to Greens from virtue signalling voters who obviously never read the small print in their manifesto .
You do realise you make yourself and your already very much toiling argument look dafter by desperately trying to twist things into your terms, rather than just backing down when proved wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Who has been proved wrong . :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
I said there here were more votes for Unionist parties than Indy parties at the last election.
First votes only as you don’t get two votes in a referendum.
The figures are , Lib Dem’s, Labour, and conservative. 50.4 % of votes cast.
SNP and Greens 49 % of votes cast.
If you don't like the results based on the system in place then just ignore them and make up some other arbitrary method of determining the validity of government.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
There isn’t a first vote or second vote. There are two votes for two different things. There is a vote for an individual who you would like to represent you and then there is a vote for a party you align with.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
More people aligned with Indy parties.
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https://www.eastlothian.gov.uk/info/...ntary_electionQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They are described in official documents as first and second votes ( see para 5 )
Do you really think someone who voted for labour, lib-dem, or conservative in the first vote and greens in the second vote are Indy supporters ?
My mum and dad did and areQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
What I did was divide the total votes by 2 to take account of this. Unionists lost 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Of course, why not? If you have a good constituency MSP that you think does a good job then you may want to keep them. However, on the list vote you vote for the party that best fits your goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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I think it's fair to say now and the last 10 years, God knows why but Scotland has been split roughly 50/50 on independence. Probably around 40% either way aren't budging, it's the middle where its won or lost. Boris priti and other such evil entities, can surely only help the cause though
Not sure if Dorries being unable to spell Ukraine counts as evil, but surely she's also putting in a great shift for the Indy cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I don’t think things have really moved much at all since 2014. The change from 55-45 to the 50-50 we have just now is likely just the demographics moving slowly towards Indy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
It’s why I think the SNP policy of being patient is the right one for now. If everything else stays the same then it’s moving the right way. I’m not seeing any game changing moves by unionists just now so we should just wait it out till the time is right.
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So second votes for Greens is virtue signalling eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Unlike all the 2nd votes given by Labour and libdems to the tories of course, they were all OKQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
That is "lack of virtue" signalling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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Did they get any second votes , apart from people who gave them their first vote ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
You seriously believe that there was no tactical voting by parties other than the SNP and Greens?!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
The Conservatives got 45,000 more votes on the list than they got as first votes. I wonder how that happened 🤔😁
Labour had 100,000 less list votes!!! Libdems 50,000 less
And Alex Cole Hamilton is just a really popular guy in Corstorphine.[emoji6][emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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By my calculation 105,000 labour and libdems voters switched to the greens in the list voteQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Of course it might be the case that some voters didn’t select a list candidate.
Do you know what the difference between candidate and list voter numbers were for the SNP and Greens ?
Yes. 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It's important to remember that the Greens didn't field candidates in all constituencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
The SNP list vote is 200,000 less than constituency vote and the Greens list vote is 190,000 more than their constituency vote.
Interesting points on the 2 votes, 6,000 more list votes overall than constituency votes.
How the hell have you calculated that? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Constituency - Con+Lab+Lib = 50.4%
List - Con+Lab+Lib = 49.5%
Constituency - SNP+Grn = 49.0%
List - SNP+Grn = 48.5%
Looks like intra-nat and intra-unionist switching to me?
As others have said, the List vote seems a more reliable indicator as it removes local candidate effects and everybody is standing everywhere.
So, loathe as I am to lump in Salmond's vote, but needs must - SNP+Grn+Alba = 50.2%
Nat majority :wink:
Is this the new SG-bashing thread? The other one has gone quiet :greengrin
If so....
https://nationaluglymugs.org/2022/03...munity-safety/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
There was also 45,000 list votes for the Alba party. I can’t see them coming from anywhere but the SNP constituency voters.
Who cares what the SNP claim will happen in their fantasy land post independence?
Is she still claiming their will be a referendum in 2023? [emoji23]
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I’m still waiting on the fantasyland UK we were promised in 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
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Are you suggesting their might not be one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
[QUOTE=grunt;6884457]Are you suggesting their might not be one?[/
https://m.facebook.com/ScottishConse...6629614176562/
No point in asking Nicola . She can’t remember if she’s asked for one or not .:greengrin
[QUOTE=greenginger;6884585]I'm now going to have to remove all the viruses that have infected my computer!!! Those bloody Russians!!Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
[QUOTE=Moulin Yarns;6884700]Its no the Ruskies. It just our First Minister showing she either has the memory of a gnat , or she’s lying , under oath, through her back teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
:top marks for Tory brass neckery there.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
You're the Tory puppet that gave me the link with all the Russian viruses!!! 🙄Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Is there a peerage coming your way? 😉
A link that absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed either. Bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
:confused:
Check the title of the thread.
SNP are lying b*****s as well !
Do do you think you control what can be discussed on threads. ?
What's a title thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
A thread about all the titles that have been handed out by the tories illegally?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
This thread is greengingers thread alone to disassociate himself from absolute anything he’s done good before cos he is a complete loss of perspective zoomer here.
I welcome an SNP bashing thread as I like to have my views challenged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majorhibs
Are threads criticising our SNP government forbidden on Hibs.net :confused:
If not I’ll continue even if it upsets your own perspective.
Please read post above yours!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
There plenty to criticise the snp govt on. Knock yourselves out. Especially on education. On health they prob get pass marks and on crime they are knocking it out the park so best leave we’ll alone.
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Don't know if he falls into the 'liar' category but this bampot certainly does the SNP cause no good:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...lyrood/?ref=ar
I'm guessing some pressure from the party itself prompted this move.
Apologies if already posted. I just noticed the story this morning.
I thought the same about party pressure. Then I thought being unwell would certainly be a valid reason for some of the more recent unacceptable comments he's made. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he recovers and the strange comments cease.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19...aine-invasion/Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998
Yes.
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This is a curious tactic the SNP have recently employed of getting blackford to say something only for sturgeon to appear to say something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
For once I agree with Blackford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Good man :agree::wink:Quote:
“I want that referendum to take place in a timely manner. I want us to be able to execute the mandate that we have."
HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I agree that 2023 is not the time but I don’t yet know where I stand on his rationale for that position. We are probably 18 months away from the snp desired timeline, and we all hope the current situation in Ukraine is resolved long before then. If there is a mandate for a referendum, I don’t see why the 2023 timeline can’t still stand
Although I don’t support independence, I think the only way out of the impasse is to have another referendumQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
As things stand it is a pretty close call and I don’t think the snp have the confidence they will win and so are reluctant to start the process as they know a second failure at best sets them back for a generation. This is bad as we just continue as we are until something major changes things.
Even with brexit, Johnson as PM and the worst Westminster government in living memory, we have not seen any real change from the 50/50 split.
What’s clear to me is that the current situation does us no good whatsoever. Either we gain independence or we accept we remain as we are. There are pros and cons with each and depending on your side of the debate you will see it differently.
I’ve been reading a thread elsewhere and the debate is just poisonous with some pretty I’ll informed statements being made (from both sides) and also some nasty comments. This is what frustrates me here. At the end of the day we all want the best for Scotland, it’s just that we have different views on how this can be achieved. We shouldn’t be falling out and sniping at each other. Whatever the outcome we will still all be Scot’s going forward and need to pull together
Ukraine is clutching at straws for a delay. Its a brave call 2023 as it will surely be close. Hopefully they are confident as there won't be a third anytime soon if no happens
I actually don't think that's true now, if it ever was. Well, assuming you mean want what's best for the people of Scotland? I think the Tory side of Unionism wants as poor a Scottish economy as possible to push a "reliance on the UK state" narrative. The existential threat to Britain is much more important to them (even Scots Tories) than the best for Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
I am really surprised at that view if I am honest and I really don’t see it. Key to note I am not on the Tory side and also I don’t view myself as a unionist, albeit I do believe remaining in the UK is best for Scotland overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I don’t think the snp are doing as well as they could to improve the Scottish economy based on the powers they have.
I have long said that the best way to make the case for independence is to make a success of devolution and win over people like me rather than try to put a huge divide down the middle by making us out to be some kind of anti Scotland people.
I still maintain that we all want the best for Scotland but just see things differently in how we achieve that.
I don't doubt you're totally sincere in that but you just need to look at the undisguised glee at the reporting of GERS "deficits" etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
WQuote:
Originally Posted by majorhibs
Oh dear, I seem to have negated myself from anything good I have ever done because I have lost perspective and have criticised SNP’s Great Leader :greengrin
This is place is getting like North Korea.
At £150 a barrel the GERS figures might be a bit different next year. [emoji51]Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Might need to dig out the old ‘it’s Scotland’s oil’ posters.[emoji23]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d48f4bae45.jpg
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And "these islands" argument of Scotland not being able to be an independent country because it has too much energy resource will need a rethink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Wonder if NS will be more open to camo field being opened with the price of oil as it isQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
Needs must when the devil drivesQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Probably taken from journalists like Sarah Smith. Pretend somethings been said, then pass it round your mates until it swamps the airwaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
Only this morning we've had journalists saying Blackford is quitting after an internal spat. Totally made up.
Fake news is alive and well in the British established press.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...on-in-scotlandQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Looks more like Sturgeon is committed to ending all North Sea oil production sooner rather than later.
Not sure the greens will see it that way unfortunatelyQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
There's a bit of politicking to be don there, I'm sure the SNP would prevail if that's what needs to be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
If your talking about the near future, she just rejected that proposal at FMQ's, said it would take until 2026 to get it to the stage of production, or at least I think that's what she said. Presumably oil price will reduce again at some point given it's such a volatile market?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
We were told in 2014 that the oil would run out in 5 years. I wonder who was lying then. 😂
Estimates only go a few years in front and it's estimated to keep rising slightlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
:agree: It's like North Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
You wouldn't be able to say that in North Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
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:top marksExcellent post. I don't see myself as a unionist either but everyone's got to have a label these days apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol
I really wish more SNP supporters could be more tolerant of those of us with different views. The ones that think they are somehow 'more Scottish', whatever that means, are the worst!!
Excellent post. I don't see myself as nationalist either, but everyone's got to have a label these days apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I really wish 'unionist' supporters could be more tolerant of those of us with different views. The ones that think they're 'more British', whatever that means, are the worst!!
✌
What word would you like? "Person who thinks the best current constitutional position for Scotland is subsumed within the UK without necessarily having an existential attachment to that state", is a bit of a mouthful, tbh. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Completely acknowledge there are Persons-who-think-the-best-...etc who are considerably more Scottish than I am (whatever that means). One older relative of my wife opposed Indy on the basis "we couldn't defend ourselves". I asked him who he thought would want to attack us. "The bloody English of course" was his immediate, and seemingly serious, reply.
See this is what I mean!! What is your post really about, other than a dig at me?Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
I like what you post usually. I generally don't agree with it, but I have never posted anything trying to belittle you or put you down.
Why not just exchange messages with me and discuss things? We don't need to argue just because we see things differently.
Ok, a peace smiley at the end is appreciated, but I think you see the point I make.
I don't just mean you btw.
Just read the general tone from Indy supporters when they post things replying to me in comparison to my posts to them. There's always a dig or a bit of smarm in there directed at me instead of just discussing the point. There's really no need for it.
Take a chill mate. I was only joshing. 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Sorry if I've offended your Britishness.
I don't know. Why do you need to label me as anything??Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I'm just a Scottish person just think we're better off staying part of the UK.
Still too much typing, tbh. How can the discussion refer to supporters of one side or the other without naming them? If you think we're better off in the UK, you support the Union; ergo, you're a Unionist. Why is that a problem? :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Anti separation?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Anti democratic voice?
Blackford dismisses quit rumours:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-60692922
I'd love to see the back of that gasbag (one of the few folk you're actually disappointed to hear is a Hibby) tho I do agree with him that there are more important things to focus on than independence right now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-60692922
One bit of good news. I’d miss the horrible slob if he quit . :greengrin
There's a big difference between independence supporters and so-called 'supporters' of the union. With the exception of the more partisan Rangers fans most of those who voted no don't actively 'support' the union in the sense that they take to the streets waving union jacks to counter nationalist marches. They are simply content to be British, having always been so. A lot of independence supporters seem to come at it from a 'how can you possibly not feel the same way as us?' angle and are unable to grasp that for many it's simply not an issue that unduly bothers them. You can be a proud Scot without being anti-British.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
You can also support indy without being a proud Scot. I don't think it's anything in particular to be proud of, tbh. It would just be another small European country if it functioned normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Fair do's!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens;6886202[B
He's Here has answered for me:aok:
Let's hope Ian Blackford has a thicker skin than some on here. A gasbag, and horrible slob.
Poor Ian.
I'm sure I saw a major march down the Royal mile with banners, union flags, and bands in 2014. It was possibly the local labour party meeting going home though.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Can I ask why you think we're better off staying part of the UK?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Do you mean economically better off, or just better off in general?
What is it about being part of the UK that you enjoy, please?
In a very general, sweeping-statement kinda way, I don't think things are nearly as bad in the UK as a lot of you on here do.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'll leave it there if that's ok, nothing to be gained by expanding on that!!
:na na:Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
Thanks for replying. I hope you're right about the UK but I fear the direction of travel under this Johnson administration. We're becoming something very un-British, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Poor Ian my a***.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
I have the misfortune to know the cretin through the Hibs 50 club as we were both members.
The 50 club used to have an annual dinner dance at some posh hotel, usually the Caley.
We we were expecting Blackford and his partner to be at our table but he didn’t show on the night and a friend and fellow member at the table told me Blackford had phoned him and asked him to get him two tickets for the night so he’d be after him for the ticket costs of about £140.
Next time I saw my friend he told me Blackford had refused to pay saying he wasn’t there and anyway my friend couldn’t prove he had asked him to get him tickets. My friend is a long standing Scot Nat who was in the party long before Blackford joined.
That’s the measure of the man, bump his fellow club members.