Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Northernhibee

It does concern how many people on social media and the like are saying "sod the booster" or something like that. Much as we thought the second vaccine was the way out of this, it's still the case that our best chance of getting out of this is vaccinating and boosting as many people are possible not just here, but around the world.

Hopefully it's just immediate anger clouding judgment at this moment in time but I hope this doesn't slow down the rate of getting boosters into arms.

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So much of the narrative starting this time last year was around get vaccinated to make this the last lockdown and the like.

Obviously no limit was put on how many vaccinations that might mean but I said at the time that it was dangerous messaging. Here we are 12 months later and the thing that attracts most of us to this board has just been effectively shut down to fans for at least 3 weeks and increased restrictions are put in place for other venues. I don't agree with the people saying it but I can see why there is an element of 'what's the point'.

We might get away with it this time but if we have a similar situation in summer or next Christmas and it's get your 4th/5th/6th jab to really, definitely avoid this happening again then there is an inevitability there will be a drop off in uptake.

As it stand the health benefits to being jabbed seem clear. The social ones less so, literally everyone is in the same boat now regardless of having done their bit or not.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Banning football but letting people mix in their homes for Christmas is stupid

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:greengrin

I am at the point now of wanting to go the Austrian/Swiss route - being vaccine mandates and fines for non-compliance. I was dead against this until recently, and maybe it is just as I am furious with what is going on right now.

I do feel strongly that we are now having to protect those that do not want to be protected. And I am sick of it.

My brother lives in South Africa. This is quote from him today in response to me asking what it was like there;

'Not really any restrictions here…. Literally just wear masks in public and curfew at 12pm…. Everyone is so over that they are just going about life as normal…. Pubs, restaurants, beaches and shops packed to the rafters. Half of Joburg come down here for xmas and new year so its soooo busy!'

Yet their cases are falling as quickly as they came up and hospitalisations were nowhere near as bad as feared. I really do think we are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

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Originally Posted by James310

A few suggestions saying football should bring forward the winter break to now, then in 3 weeks we are back to normal....

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Anyone with a calm head and an eye on the figures coming out of SA, Denmark and London should be going all out to make this the case.

It's the sensible option that ticks the most boxes.

Not without risks (such as getting through the 3 weeks and finding ourselves still in the never-ending cycle of lockdown) but I am fairly confident we'll be in a place to resume where we left off in 3 weeks - and save pissing off thousands of people and depriving more businesses (in this case football clubs) of valuable income for minimal significant benefit in reducing covid related issues.

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

I am at the point now of wanting to go the Austrian/Swiss route - being vaccine mandates and fines for non-compliance. I was dead against this until recently, and maybe it is just as I am furious with what is going on right now.

I do feel strongly that we are now having to protect those that do not want to be protected. And I am sick of it.

My brother lives in South Africa. This is quote from him today in response to me asking what it was like there;

'Not really any restrictions here…. Literally just wear masks in public and curfew at 12pm…. Everyone is so over that they are just going about life as normal…. Pubs, restaurants, beaches and shops packed to the rafters. Half of Joburg come down here for xmas and new year so its soooo busy!'

Yet their cases are falling like as quickly as they came up. I really do think we are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

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But only 37% of South Africans are fully vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Thats not what my point was? My point was responding to another poster who said the chances of you dying from Covid are minimal if you're under a certain age, but it still happens. The original post I was responding to was someone saying they aren't getting the booster, when it's been shown to reduce the effects of the new variant.

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You brought up the poster potentially dying first, not me. Seems like your arguing with yourself here.

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Originally Posted by Coco Bryce

But only 37% of South Africans are fully vaccinated.

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That's true, but most of the rest have had covid. SA has had 277K excess deaths over the pandemic. It's not like they've somehow escaped lightly, and that's with a significantly younger population than ours.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

So much of the narrative starting this time last year was around get vaccinated to make this the last lockdown and the like.

Obviously no limit was put on how many vaccinations that might mean but I said at the time that it was dangerous messaging. Here we are 12 months later and the thing that attracts most of us to this board has just been effectively shut down to fans for at least 3 weeks and increased restrictions are put in place for other venues. I don't agree with the people saying it but I can see why there is an element of 'what's the point'.

We might get away with it this time but if we have a similar situation in summer or next Christmas and it's get your 4th/5th/6th jab to really, definitely avoid this happening again then there is an inevitability there will be a drop off in uptake.

As it stand the health benefits to being jabbed seem clear. The social ones less so, literally everyone is in the same boat now regardless of having done their bit or not.

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The medical profession and governments are all still on a journey with this. Without the Omicron variant they were winning in some countries. This new variant has completely changed the higher vaccinated countries risk profile. We have to change our mind completely on this thing. With the flu, we all subconsciously agree on the risks, With COVID , as we see on here..populations don’t yet agree.

Realistically, the risk will be much smaller as we go forward, but will be here for ever. Never gone. We need to prep for a time when it will never be zero. New vaccines and treatments will emerge. But until then governments, regardless of their politics , are on a learning process to manage and reduce the risk of COVID.


, I am as unsettled as most by these restrictions. not sure I agree with them, but I accept they need to find acceptable ways to manage the impact until they know how to control it. They don’t fully yet.

It will feel up and down for a number of months yet, and then they will have a way of managing it. At some point it will stabilise. There will be a new normal, which may include masks and some other ways that people reduce their own risks. we are not there yet. That’s why governments are having to intervene.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

That's true, but most of the rest have had covid. SA has had 277K excess deaths over the pandemic. It's not like they've somehow escaped lightly, and that's with a significantly younger population than ours.

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Is there protection from antibodies as good as the UK when you consider past infection here (which is not insignificant), plus those with 2 jabs and a booster?

I can't imagine they can be much better off than us. Add in the fact we have a far superior health system tells me we'll be just fine like SA have largely been with Omicron.

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

I am at the point now of wanting to go the Austrian/Swiss route - being vaccine mandates and fines for non-compliance. I was dead against this until recently, and maybe it is just as I am furious with what is going on right now.

I do feel strongly that we are now having to protect those that do not want to be protected. And I am sick of it.

My brother lives in South Africa. This is quote from him today in response to me asking what it was like there;

'Not really any restrictions here…. Literally just wear masks in public and curfew at 12pm…. Everyone is so over that they are just going about life as normal…. Pubs, restaurants, beaches and shops packed to the rafters. Half of Joburg come down here for xmas and new year so its soooo busy!'

Yet their cases are falling as quickly as they came up and hospitalisations were nowhere near as bad as feared. I really do think we are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

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Fundamental rights and liberties eliminated just like that. Curfew my arse and compulsory vaccination/non compliance fines GTF.

So, it's not about how many people become ill any more, given hospital; admission levels, it's about protecting infrastructure and ensuring business as usual. Except it isn't really business as usual and the goalposts are shifting to wherever suits.

New strain, new vaccine, new strain, new vaccine..ad infinitum.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Is there protection from antibodies as good as the UK when you consider past infection here (which is not insignificant), plus those with 2 jabs and a booster?

I can't imagine they can be much better off than us. Add in the fact we have a far superior health system tells me we'll be just fine like SA have largely been with Omicron.

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We have a much worse age profile in terms of susceptibility to this, but yes, everything else is better.

I actually think you're right and omicron won't be anywhere near the worst case scenarios but I sure as hell wouldn't like to be the one taking the decision to risk peoples' lives. :dunno:

90k cases in the UK today. For the 3rd or 4th day running.

What has happened to the doubling? We should be at about 170-200k by now.

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

I am at the point now of wanting to go the Austrian/Swiss route - being vaccine mandates and fines for non-compliance. I was dead against this until recently, and maybe it is just as I am furious with what is going on right now.

I do feel strongly that we are now having to protect those that do not want to be protected. And I am sick of it.

My brother lives in South Africa. This is quote from him today in response to me asking what it was like there;

'Not really any restrictions here…. Literally just wear masks in public and curfew at 12pm…. Everyone is so over that they are just going about life as normal…. Pubs, restaurants, beaches and shops packed to the rafters. Half of Joburg come down here for xmas and new year so its soooo busy!'

Yet their cases are falling as quickly as they came up and hospitalisations were nowhere near as bad as feared. I really do think we are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

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I would be careful would you wish for with regard to civil liberties. The police bill going through parliament now, with precious little media cover, will be right up your street.

90,629 cases and 172 deaths registered in the UK today.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

That London graph looks even more like it's peaked with today's update:

http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19...asesLondon.png

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This is the graph I'd like to see today's update on...

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Fundamental rights and liberties eliminated just like that. Curfew my arse and compulsory vaccination/non compliance fines GTF.

So, it's not about how many people become ill any more, given hospital; admission levels, it's about protecting infrastructure and ensuring business as usual. Except it isn't really business as usual and the goalposts are shifting to wherever suits.

New strain, new vaccine, new strain, new vaccine..ad infinitum.

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It’s about keeping the country going. Imagine if hospitalisations stayed the same and bear in mind they are still high and the staff sickness and and absence goes through the roof. London hospitals in the last week absences went from under 1900 to over 4700 in one week. Their hospitalisations actually increased substantially at the same time. Now multiply that over all the emergency services and all the other things that are deemed essential. It’s not just about the hospitalisations it’s about keeping the infrastructure going.
im not for compulsory vaccination but with choice there should be consequences. A civil society demands that.

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

90k cases in the UK today. For the 3rd or 4th day running.

What has happened to the doubling? We should be at about 170-200k by now.

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Just like hospital numbers. More bull**** we are fed by the “modelers”

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

90k cases in the UK today. For the 3rd or 4th day running.

What has happened to the doubling? We should be at about 170-200k by now.

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Dropped-s yesterday was 25K for the UK. So omicron is not dominant across the whole UK yet.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Fundamental rights and liberties eliminated just like that. Curfew my arse and compulsory vaccination/non compliance fines GTF.

So, it's not about how many people become ill any more, given hospital; admission levels, it's about protecting infrastructure and ensuring business as usual. Except it isn't really business as usual and the goalposts are shifting to wherever suits.

New strain, new vaccine, new strain, new vaccine..ad infinitum.

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You tell people to get to ****, but have the cheek to ask admins to delete my post. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

This is the graph I'd like to see today's update on...

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Will be along any minute (note that it's a by-specimen-date chart and the last couple of days on it are partially estimates).

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

**** off Sturgeon. The Nictator.

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She'll be annexing the Sudetenland next.

Hopefully we'll get a decent crowd at ER tomorrow night, as it will be the first and last chance to see the team under Shaun Maloney this season.

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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman

Cancelled my booster appointment, what’s the point? I’m not allowed to go to football now whether I’m vaccinated or not.

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No point whatsoever eh?

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Attachment 25394

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

We have a much worse age profile in terms of susceptibility to this, but yes, everything else is better.

I actually think you're right and omicron won't be anywhere near the worst case scenarios but I sure as hell wouldn't like to be the one taking the decision to risk peoples' lives. :dunno:

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Whilst SA has a younger age profile it's worth considering the reason for that.

A life of expectancy of 64 compared to 81 for the UK. Between 13 and 20% of the population infected with HIV and it accounts for 25% of their deaths each year, a huge prevalence of diabetes; TB and heart disease are among the leading causes of death. 55% of the population live in poverty compared to around 20% in the UK and the rate of absolute poverty in SA is higher as well.

All of those are huge risk factors for fatal covid outcomes yet, thus far, they still seem to have done OK. We have an older population at least in part because we don't have 150K plus people dying from Aids every year, in fact there are 'only' about 110K people estimated to have HIV in the whole of the UK and over 80% of those are virus suppressed.

If anything I would say all the reasons for South Africa's lower age profile makes it far more at risk of a deluge of deaths.

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Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

No point whatsoever eh?

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Attachment 25394

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Almost 4 times likely to get it if unvaccinated and 12 times more likely to die ….facts for everyone to consider .

vaccinations are a key part of the solution

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Originally Posted by Col2

Just like hospital numbers. More bull**** we are fed by the “modelers”

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Not modelled, observed in tests:

https://i.ibb.co/wcZRYKV/Screenshot-...t-16-20-55.png

They can’t just give money to hospitality and leisure. Furlough is needed urgently

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

You tell people to get to ****, but have the cheek to ask admins to delete my post. :rolleyes:

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No idea what you are talking about. You were the one using the abusive terms and I never asked anyone to delete anything:confused:

Ah, so me saying GTF to the idea of compulsory vaccination and curfew. I was responding to the idea of that, got you now.

Boris to make a decision within next 48hrs about whether people can see their families at Christmas time…

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Whilst SA has a younger age profile it's worth considering the reason for that.

A life of expectancy of 64 compared to 81 for the UK. Between 13 and 20% of the population infected with HIV and it accounts for 25% of their deaths each year, a huge prevalence of diabetes; TB and heart disease are among the leading causes of death. 55% of the population live in poverty compared to around 20% in the UK and the rate of absolute poverty in SA is higher as well.

All of those are huge risk factors for fatal covid outcomes yet, thus far, they still seem to have done OK. We have an older population at least in part because we don't have 150K plus people dying from Aids every year, in fact there are 'only' about 110K people estimated to have HIV in the whole of the UK and over 80% of those are virus suppressed.

If anything I would say all the reasons for South Africa's lower age profile makes it far more at risk of a deluge of deaths.

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I totally agree with your general summary of SA vs UK health - but age rather than anything else is by far the biggest determinant of covid fatality. (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7247470/ )

Also, they have not "done OK", they have had twice the per capita excess deaths of the UK, and we have been *****.

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Originally Posted by HendoDelivered

Boris to make a decision within next 48hrs about whether people can see their families at Christmas time…

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As if anyone is gonna listen....