Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Because the players, who have complained about non payment in the past, also say their contracts were amended.

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I was speaking to a woman from B&Q the other day and she was saying that her contract was to work x amount hours between Monday and Friday. She was called into the office and told that her contract had now been amended and that she would now have to work weekends. If this is true then it seems that your contract can be amended without your permission or approval. :confused:

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Originally Posted by brog

Much as we would like it to be otherwise, the absence of any evidence to the contrary suggests that there is no case to answer.

That's pretty much been Yams' response to us for the last 3 years in which we've been forecasting their financial demise! :wink: There was no apparent evidence they were engaging in a Lithuanian tax scam either but they've agreed to pay £1.5mm to make it go away.

Personally, I'd prefer to hang the Hearts for stuff that they have done, rather than for stuff that we think, or hope, they might have done. (a phrase I often alluded to in the HunsInMeltdown thread)

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Originally Posted by brog

I think you have this the wrong way round, I'm suggesting they haven't done something, ie physically amended contracts. I have absolutely no doubt the players verbally agreed a wage deferment but IMO ( & that's all it is ) the "contract amendment" phrase was dreamt up & agreed by all concerned to get Yams off the hook re the new regulations. It's interesting that Dunfermline ( who obviously are not governed by SPL rules ) have not had the need for any "contract amendments" despite being in a fairly similar situation to Yams.
I do believe however that if Yams default again in near future, as I believe they will, the whole sorry facade will collapse & SPL will be forced to take action.

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Do contract amendments have to be physically amended?

I doubt it, but if they do, I can write an amendment to be inserted into a contract in 30 seconds.

I have a contract. If it was to be amended in my favour, I'd want it signed and sealed in triplicate.

If it was me agreeing to a wage deferment, I wouldn't give a monkey's if it was written in the snow, even less so if my representatives were aware of the agreement.

Sorry, brog, but you're clutching at straws a bit here.

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Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish

I was speaking to a woman from B&Q the other day and she was saying that her contract was to work x amount hours between Monday and Friday. She was called into the office and told that her contract had now been amended and that she would now have to work weekends. If this is true then it seems that your contract can be amended without your permission or approval. :confused:

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It might sound daft, but the ability to alter the contract must have been agreed to in the original contract.

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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Sorry, brog, but you're clutching at straws a bit here.

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Sorry but you're missing the point, it's SPL rules which need to be complied with. Rule A6.21, only introduced in July this year states, Any club which shall fail to pay any sum due by it to a player under that Player's Contract of Service - - - - - shall be in breach of these rules. Yams have of course already been found to be in breach of these rules.


The only way Yams can now fail to pay players ( which they acknowledge has occurred again ) & comply with that rule is to have each individual contract amended, & probably signed by both parties. As I said originally, unless the amendment was open-ended ( & surely even Yam players are not that daft ) they would probably need an amendment for each player for each wage deferral. Do you honestly think this would have happened? IMO the logistics of this & the speed with which Yams announced the "contract amendments" make such a scenario extremely unlikely.
Again, it's almost certainly in SPL interests ( & probably ours ) to keep Yams afloat for this season. I'm only doubting the mechanics & truth of their own process.

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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:top marks

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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:applause:

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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Probably the best description of their situation I've read ha ha.

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Originally Posted by brog

Sorry but you're missing the point, it's SPL rules which need to be complied with. Rule A6.21, only introduced in July this year states, Any club which shall fail to pay any sum due by it to a player under that Player's Contract of Service - - - - - shall be in breach of these rules. Yams have of course already been found to be in breach of these rules.


The only way Yams can now fail to pay players ( which they acknowledge has occurred again ) & comply with that rule is to have each individual contract amended, & probably signed by both parties. As I said originally, unless the amendment was open-ended ( & surely even Yam players are not that daft ) they would probably need an amendment for each player for each wage deferral. Do you honestly think this would have happened? IMO the logistics of this & the speed with which Yams announced the "contract amendments" make such a scenario extremely unlikely.
Again, it's almost certainly in SPL interests ( & probably ours ) to keep Yams afloat for this season. I'm only doubting the mechanics & truth of their own process.

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If they really needed contracts to be physically amended and signed, they could have done so in seconds.

Add a clause and sign it.

Here you go.

Amendment to contract:

November 2012 salary will be paid with the salary for December 2012.

Signed: Yam management

Signed: Yam player

Witness: Any Yam.

Date: 70 62 10

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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Haha one of the funniest posts I've read on here and so true at the same time. Perfect analogy

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Originally Posted by basehibby

God I'm getting sick and tired of this!

Hearts are like a pish soaked jakey tramp hanging around at the bus stop begging for a bus fare home - and as soon as some gullible simpleton's give them enough cash they are straight back in the offy for another tin of Special Brew!

The SFA have taken the step of barring them from the off-license until they've paid for their tab - but as soon as the ban is lifted they are straight out there begging again and pishing it all up the wall - they are a pain in everybody's erse and a blot on the landscape and it's high time they were lifted for vagrancy and banished to a more suitable environment (Div3 anyone?) where they can pish themselves into their own jakey hole without making a public nuisance of themselves at every turn :grr:

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Yes.

got it from very reliable source,The little scrot wouldn't drop his money for the team he so dearly loves.

Fester banging on about signing this nobody in January without the slightest whiff of the financial situation that is going on around him, arrogance personified...

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Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762

Fester banging on about signing this nobody in January without the slightest whiff of the financial situation that is going on around him, arrogance personified...

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He sounds like he knows as much about the current situation as your average kickbacker.

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Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762

Fester banging on about signing this nobody in January without the slightest whiff of the financial situation that is going on around him, arrogance personified...

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Also talking about getting the players that are out of contract at the end of the season tied up for next season.

They are already losing millions a year and they've got a further £500k a year to find for this tax deal they agreed and they're still talking about renewing players contracts :confused:

As unbelievable as it sounds i honestly don't think they realise the **** they are actually in.

Apparently they'll only be buying lesser quality to replace players they sell.

Income
Shares £800k
Sevco £300k
Ticket and bake sales £300k

Total £1.4m

Outgoings
HMRC £450
Wages nov £400k
Wages Dec £400k
Wages Jan £400k

Total £1.65m

Not included other expenses.
Out of money by mid jan?

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Originally Posted by Russell The Dug

For a company to say the wages of there employees have been paid when its not the truth has to be against the law surely?

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What law?

And.... have you considered that they may be telling the truth?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Income
Shares £800k
Sevco £300k
Ticket and bake sales £300k

Total £1.4m

Outgoings
HMRC £450
Wages nov £400k
Wages Dec £400k
Wages Jan £400k

Total £1.65m

Not included other expenses.
Out of money by mid jan?

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Police, utilities, suppliers and servicing the already sizeable debt they've got?

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Also talking about getting the players that are out of contract at the end of the season tied up for next season.

They are already losing millions a year and they've got a further £500k a year to find for this tax deal they agreed and they're still talking about renewing players contracts :confused:

As unbelievable as it sounds i honestly don't think they realise the **** they are actually in.

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I think they do bingo but it's the arrogant yam way of course of trying to pretend there's nothing wrong and to my mind pushing the authorities as far as they can as if to say we don't give a toss....God I hate them!

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Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762

I think they do bingo but it's the arrogant yam way of course of trying to pretend there's nothing wrong and to my mind pushing the authorities as far as they can as if to say we don't give a toss....God I hate them!

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I'm 31 and they've been over spending my whole life, (i can't really remember the Mercer era but i'm told they overspent then as well) so i just don't think they know any other way.

If they really are going to start cutting there cloth accordingly and living within their means they're going to be in for a real shock, it's not an easy thing to do and we've been struggling recently but it's going to be nothing compared to the pain Hearts are going to have to go through. From speaking to even the most reasonable Jambo at my work they still don't seem to grasp the size of the cost cutting they're going to have to go through and even once they've done that the income will likely go down as there team will be worse so it'll keep on getting harder for them.

I think we'll see over the next five years or so who the real 'Big team' in Edinburgh are.

Just had a response by E-mail to my F. O. I. request for information on the outstanding sums for Business Rates and Rental due by HOMFC, and you guessed it, request refused under section 33 Commercial Interests.

" We consider that the release of this information could potentially prejudice the commercial interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

What really pisses me off is they wait until 3 pm on the last day of their window to respond and then say they are not releasing the information. If this had been made clear at the outset I could have had an appeal under way weeks ago.

I smell a giant Rat. Calls will be made in the morning and appeals initiated !

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Just had a response by E-mail to my F. O. I. request for information on the outstanding sums for Business Rates and Rental due by HOMFC, and you guessed it, request refused under section 33 Commercial Interests.

" We consider that the release of this information could potentially prejudice the commercial interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

What really pisses me off is they wait until 3 pm on the last day of their window to respond and then say they are not releasing the information. If this had been made clear at the outset I could have had an appeal under way weeks ago.

I smell a giant Rat. Calls will be made in the morning and appeals initiated !

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Sounds dodgy mate, keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Just had a response by E-mail to my F. O. I. request for information on the outstanding sums for Business Rates and Rental due by HOMFC, and you guessed it, request refused under section 33 Commercial Interests.

" We consider that the release of this information could potentially prejudice the commercial interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

What really pisses me off is they wait until 3 pm on the last day of their window to respond and then say they are not releasing the information. If this had been made clear at the outset I could have had an appeal under way weeks ago.

I smell a giant Rat. Calls will be made in the morning and appeals initiated !

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Good try anyway. What is the RV of Tynie?

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Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby

Thats the best description of their situation I've read ha ha.

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Sorted that for you EH :wink:

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Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

Good try anyway. What is the RV of Tynie?

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the stadium R V is £ 224,000 with an addition of £ 68,500 for the ticket office they rent from the Council.Total £ 292,500 with the business rate of 45p in the pound, I don't know if their are any discounts for sports grounds etc., but if not their annual charge could be over £130,000 plus whatever the rental they pay for the Council premises.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Just had a response by E-mail to my F. O. I. request for information on the outstanding sums for Business Rates and Rental due by HOMFC, and you guessed it, request refused under section 33 Commercial Interests.

" We consider that the release of this information could potentially prejudice the commercial interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

What really pisses me off is they wait until 3 pm on the last day of their window to respond and then say they are not releasing the information. If this had been made clear at the outset I could have had an appeal under way weeks ago.

I smell a giant Rat. Calls will be made in the morning and appeals initiated !

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What grounds can you appeal on?

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Originally Posted by greenginger

the stadium R V is £ 224,000 with an addition of £ 68,500 for the ticket office they rent from the Council.Total £ 292,500 with the business rate of 45p in the pound, I don't know if their are any discounts for sports grounds etc., but if not their annual charge could be over £130,000 plus whatever the rental they pay for the Council premises.

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Thanks. In the bigger scheme of things, this is not a lot of money for Hearts at around £11k or so per month, so should have been paid.

Obviously they look like they will need to find over £100k or so before March.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There are two parties to a contract of employment. If one party doesn't comply with their own responsibilities, then that breaks the law of contract.

Thus far, if we are to believe what we are told, the original contracts were modified... and the new contracts complied with.

So far, no breach of contract and therefore no breach of law.

If there were, then those injured parties have the right to sue.

None have, therefore one deduces that nothing illegal has taken place.

Simples.

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If a player was stupid enough to change their contract to only pay me when you can....should the players union even bother about them ? How stupid can a YAM player be ?

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Originally Posted by Hibeesforever

If a player was stupid enough to change their contract to only pay me when you can....should the players union even bother about them ? How stupid can a YAM player be ?

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Is that what happened?

If it was, and the revised contract wasn't breached, then there would be no need for the union to become involved.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Just had a response by E-mail to my F. O. I. request for information on the outstanding sums for Business Rates and Rental due by HOMFC, and you guessed it, request refused under section 33 Commercial Interests.

" We consider that the release of this information could potentially prejudice the commercial interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club."

What really pisses me off is they wait until 3 pm on the last day of their window to respond and then say they are not releasing the information. If this had been made clear at the outset I could have had an appeal under way weeks ago.

I smell a giant Rat. Calls will be made in the morning and appeals initiated !

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It clearly looks like they have debt.

Maybe we should be asking our local councillors to investigate?