Good riddance to Parliament for another few weeks. Even one week of all those torn faces recycling the same arguments over and over again in order to go precisely nowhere was more than enough for now.
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Good riddance to Parliament for another few weeks. Even one week of all those torn faces recycling the same arguments over and over again in order to go precisely nowhere was more than enough for now.
It sldve been 1 week max if the reasons Johnson gave were trueQuote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
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Top trolling from the EU who have just appointed the new Trade Commissioner: Ireland's Phil Hogan. :greengrin
Brexit Ltd. with the fascist getting one HoC seat :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Still more than their dictator/leader has gotten in his entire career.
Labour too beholden to the unions to be able to offer voters a coherent Brexit strategy:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49646544
What's the government of the UK's excuse, after three years' attempting to develop one?Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
To be fair to Johnson and his Brexit friends, they will go into the election with a very simple and clear message of leaving no matter what. Labour on the other hand will have different policies depending on who is asked and on what day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
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Another stab at a deal with a further referendum to confirm (remain being on the ballot). Seems clear to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
J
https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...mpression=true
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-10/...robert-peston/
Articles like this need shared far and wide. Keeps the Brexit Party very much in play for the GE.
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Kind of like solving the homeless problem, by saying "there is nowhere for anybody to stay, terrible, but what can you do?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It's not that straightforward though is it? What they're saying is that if elected they would negotiate a 'Labour' deal with the EU with a view to then holding a confirmatory referendum - but that the party would still be unable to provide the electorate with a clear stance on Brexit because Corbyn and unions who prop him up are of the view that the large swathes of Labour voting constituencies who voted leave would be lost to the Tories/Brexit Party if they committed to a remain stance (coupled with the fact that Corbyn and Len McCluskey are lifelong Eurosceptic Brexiteers). The likes of Thornberry and McDonnell on the other hand would then campaign against the very deal they'd just negotiated. Hardly a snappy vote-winning strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
As Oz says, like him or loathe him, the PM's electoral stance is already nailed down and easy for voters to understand, as is that of the Lib Dems (the only party to actually come out straight and say they want to cancel Brexit completely). Labour on the other hand remain mired in confusion - or dither and delay, as Johnson would say.
Interesting development on the irrelevance of the DUP in a minority’s government we discussed yesterday.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-10/...robert-peston/
Lucky Norn Ironers. They voted remain and get to stay in the single market. Lucky England and Wales. They voted leave... acht, everyone knows where I'm going here... :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Colr
Although I understand the argument that Labour’s latest position lacks clarity, I actually think there’s merit in it. Leavers get a chance to put a single achievable deal to the public, Remainers get a guaranteed ref2 with Remain on the ballot.
Difficult messaging to pull off though.
It’s all about the messaging. There is no room for nuance in politics just now.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I’ve just finished watching ‘The Loudest Voice’ on SKY and one of the things you notice in American politics is they make sure they have a very simple message and then they hammer that message over and over again. Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s true or workable, so long as the viewer at home thinks it sounds good. Johnson has that, Labour don’t.
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Simplicity isn't enough. It has to pick up a public mood. "Strong and stable" didn't work in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Johnson as PM gives the other parties an easy target, if they've someone able to take aim.
If the general election is called after an extension to article 50 has been granted things could get very interesting. With Lib Dems now stating a clear remain position, the leave vote split between Brexit party and Tories, and Labour still trying to straddle the fence, it's perfectly possible that a 30%ish vote share will be enough to win many seats. Lib Dems could conceivably do that in large parts of England by attracting remain voters.
That's my logic behind sticking a tenner on a Lib Dem / SNP coalition government at 50/1 anyway...
You make it sound like the electorate isn't intelligent enough to know what it's voting for. 😜Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Especially when just a day later Tom Watson steps in to contradict their already muddled position:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ce-over-brexit
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/990324...mpression=true
Farage names his price. I would think there is no way the Tories can give him that so hopefully he takes the huff and stands candidates everywhere.
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Significant news in Edinburgh - Court of Session rules prorogation of Parliament is unlawful. No measure is being made to cancel prorogation - this will go up to the Supreme Court next week.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855
Yeah, it would be difficult messaging to pull off even if they could all stick to the script for more than 4 or 5 nanoseconds. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Cummings and Farage have a hate-hate relationship too,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Tories should take this all the way to the European court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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lolzQuote:
Originally Posted by ozyhibby
Their lordships of the Inner House manage to spot the bleeding obvious. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Lord Brodie:
Quote:
This was an egregious case of a clear failure to comply with generally accepted standards of behaviour of public authorities. The principal reasons for the prorogation were to prevent or impede parliament holding the executive to account and legislating with regard to Brexit, and to allow the executive to pursue a policy of a no deal Brexit without further parliamentary interference.
Lord Carloway:
Quote:
The true reason for the prorogation was to stymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which was a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution; this followed from the principles of democracy and the rule of law.
Ideally now the English Tory press will run a "Jocko judges stole our Brexit" front page and Indy gets another step closer. :wink:
I wonder if that is the same Lord Carloway I knew 40+ years ago? He was an old fashioned toff but quite down to earth at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Just looked him up, must be the son.
Tom Newton-Dunn, political journo for the Sun reports:
Quote:
Sources in No10 now hitting back at the Scottish judges, suggesting they are politically biased: "We note that last week the High Court in London did not rule that prorogation was unlawful. The legal activists choose the Scottish courts for a reason".
Top Unionism there folks :wink::aok:
Johnson now the first PM in history to be found by a court to have lied to the King or Queen.
I would think that this might turn out to be quite serious.
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🙏🤞Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Does Westminster need to wait for the Supreme Court ruling before reconvening, or can it sit in the meantime?
I think it can reconvene but likely to wait until Tuesdays appealQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
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Hung for treason? :deal:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Perhaps not fully informed either as it makes it sound like the English Court's decision was appealed to the Scottish Court, which isn't what happened...although a cynic may say that could be deliberate.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
It's likely to be overturned next week though isnt it?
Being against capital punishment, I feel it would be more appropriate to just bang him in the Tower of London at Her Majies pleasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
Yet another defeat for the manager of the country. How can he keep his job?
Don't know how likely it is, but Bozo desperately needs that ruling to go his way. Everything is going against him, which is pleasing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
Not sure, the Supreme Court has to respect Scots law as well. If the evidence is there that Johnson mislead the Queen then I would think they would back up the Scottish court. From what I’ve read this morning, the cases in England and Scotland are not quite the same because the law in Scotland is different. It’s possible that the Supreme Court could uphold the English and Scottish decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
Or I could have interpreted that all wrong.[emoji3]
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https://amp.ft.com/content/11983298-...mpression=true
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Can you copy and paste that? Its asking to sign in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That's behind a paywall, I think, but presumably is about the government's inability to produce anyone willing to swear that Johnson's intentions were good, true etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Yes that’s pretty much it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
This keeps happening to me with the FT links. I open it, read the story, post the link and it doesn’t then work for others and I can’t get back into it either.
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https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-11/...nt-is-allowed/
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Even his gullible base will give up on him if he's been misling the queen shirley?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Signs of the beginning of a climbdown by Boris Johnson on the 21 Tory rebels? The chief whip Mark Spencer has written to some of the rebels outlining the appeals procedure, adding pontedly that future support for the government will be taken into account. Not going down well
Brexiteer being torn a new one on Sky News.
Unionists have gone Full Froth claiming that the:
"ruling doesnt count because its Scottish courts",
"we wont be told what to do by Scotland",
"ignore these illegal courts."
And every statement further confirms the case for independence.
Magnificent.
Tiny point: Scotland was guaranteed a separate, independent judiciary and legal system in 1707. One would hope UK officials, especially ones who claim to support the union, would understand and respect that.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Scotland is only part of the "union" when it suits them.
Scottish court system should sue the UK Government for defamation after claiming that their ruling was influenced by political bias.
If Johnny English had been able to understand these simplest of nuances the Union would never have been under threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
In my life, it has been the repeated failure of England to recognise us as partners with rights, rather than as a northern offshoot of their country, that has irked the most.
Demographic changes in NI starting to show now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dedd105f98.jpg
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https://youtu.be/kAeEJ3a2yt0Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It's partly the demographics and partly that the "unaligned" switch sides in the event of a hard or no deal Brexit from favouring the UK to favouring a UI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That was just about my first thought when I heard the decision. Get rid of those uppity Jocks Boris!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
When have the Govt to release the Yellowhammer docs?
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I thought it was 11pm tonight but that might have been one of the other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
Kwasi Kwarteng embarrassing himself on Andrew Neil. Is he really the best stooge the government can put up?
I love the increasingly contradictory positions some people are being forced to take. The same people desperate to get out of the EU so we can 'take back control of our laws' are now declaring the British legal system as 'unfit for purpose' because a Scots Court has made a decision they disagree with.
Government says it will defy Commons vote to release communications concerning prorogation. Another mess.
Surely if they had nothing to hide and if this was all above board like they claim it is, they'd be more than willing to release them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
We're into Watergate territory now. How long till Boris cones on and tells us he's not a crook?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
His some-people-but-not-me comments about the judiciary were an absolute disgrace.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...935294977?s=21
So that's the yellowhammer document published, a summary-
The U.K will be more badly affected than the EU.
Delays for vehicles and people at borders.
Electricity price increases.
Medical supply shortages.
Potential increase of zoonotic diseases which can affect food supply chain, animal welfare and human health.
Food price increases and reduced choice of fresh food.
Potential for clean drinking water to be affected.
No more free healthcare in EU countries.
Gibraltar completely ****ed.
Protests, public disorder and community tensions that'll take up a significant amount of police time.
Job losses.
Fuel shortages and price increases.
Northern Ireland ****ed.
Increase in black market economy.
Unable to patrol fishing waters so EU vessels can fish illegally in our waters, causing further tensions.
Social care providers going bust due to lack of EU workers.
"Low income groups will be disproportionately affected..."
And our government are happy for this to happen to us, tories eh.
:agree: Was like watching a dumbed-down McCoist.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
They are actively trying to make this happen to us. It’s just incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Interesting tweet from Journalist at Sunday Times on differences between this version and the version they got their hands on a while backQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/st...64228879372289
Yup. The Supreme Court may dispense with the Gina Miller appeal at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
Why is it likely to be overturned?Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
Attachment 22512
:hilarious
Sadly that sentiment is only gonna get worse. I fear the coming months.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
"Authors for Brexit" - too busy writing, not enough reading. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
We should let the English voters have and vote in Indyref2!!!
It's not certain to be overturned but the High Court were pretty clear in dismissing the Gina Miller case last week by stating that this was not a matter for the courts, so the Supreme Court will take that into consideration along with the fact the the Court of Session in Scotland initially dismissed the parliamentarians' case before their successful appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
Yes, but the decision made in Edinburgh yesterday was by an appeal court and outranks the decision made by the English High Court. Also the fact the appeals court decision was unanimous by the 3 judges is significant.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I think next week's verdict is in the balance. Could go either way.
I agree. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of conflicting views for them to weigh up, although yesterday's appeal decision undoubtedly gives them a lot more to think about. By rejecting the Government's appeal they would be opening up a new political chapter whereby any controversial government decision is likely be challenged in the courts so that may weigh on their minds. On that basis my instinct is that they'll overturn yesterday's decision but I really have no idea how it will play out.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
People want it to happen onto themselves... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49669266Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I only saw this brief snippet of it, and I'll admit that I was looking to be enraged but I don't have much of a problem with what he says.
He doesn't call into question the integrity of the judges himself but he says that many people up and down the country ARE questioning them, which is true.
It's the classic way of saying something (judges are interfering in politics for biased reasons) while weaseling out of taking responsibility for saying it. Trump does it all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Edit: eg.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...1826549030912?
A bit of financial advice in the event of deal or no deal from Martin Lewis
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/fa...means-for-you/
These people say we must leave the EU so 'not to be ruled by foreign courts', but are outraged when UK courts make a ruling. No doubt The Daily Mail has called the judges 'enemies of the people'.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
I rarely look at the Scotsman nowadays, butQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinio...ment-1-5002607
Now the High Court in Belfast muddies the waters further by dismissing a No Deal legal challenge:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49676133
Barely anyone looks at the Scotsman these days. Sales are negligible and it's run by a skeleton staff out of a single floor office at Orchard Brae. Sad times for a once influential Scottish institution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Having come out strongly in favour of the Union in 2014 it's now attempting to hitch itself to the independence cause in the hope it can pick up a few readers.
I'll have to take a look at it, always seen it as right leaning in its editorial content.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Was going to mention Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
It’s a way of saying something and getting the message out to your audience without saying it.
J
Who'd have thought that the best way to run a country was simply to ignore the law.
Take a look at ⚫ Ross M, QC. #FBPE #RevokeA50 (@LeaveNowRemain): https://twitter.com/LeaveNowRemain?s=09
I apologise profusely to everyone for voting leave in 2016.
I did not sign up for this ****.
And I want #Brexit to stop now.
#RevokeA50Now @BorisJohnson.
#Yellowhammer is an astounding, critical & deeply concerning read.
Why put the UK through this?
Glad I'm @RemainerNow
Twitter is hilarious with all the expert opinions
Some hot legal takes from the Brexit supporters group https://t.co/NvEMCzhPP4
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
That's the thing about all the "federal solution" chat as a long term constitutional future for Scotland in the UK. It sounds good in theory, but if Scotland had anything remotely approaching the normal powers of a federal state the English nationalist toys would come out the pram big time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I do hear exactly what you are both saying, but my interpretation upon seeing the clip is that he is being genuine. Trump is disingenuous by nature and he does this sort of thing a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Whilst we're talking about calling professional integrity into doubt, should we not be prepared to give an elected politician the benefit of the doubt, especially when what he is saying is true? He is quite emphatic that this is not the point he is making but it would be wrong in that context not to point out that people (especially across England) are calling into question the integrity of the judges?
I expect you are being the Devil's Avocado ... but, nah. I saw the clip live and my impression was that he was being a weaselly *****bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Cummings is leafing his way through the Trump playbook and any Tory minister agreeing to do tv at the moment is clearly under its instruction.
I read somewhere that the Supreme court can hear an appeal of a decision by the court of session, but the appeal has be considered on the basis of Scottish law? And the fact the 'lie' was told in Scotland also weighs heavily on the basis of the appeal?Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by southfieldhibby
Aiui the Supreme Court is sitting as a Scottish Court when it hears an appeal from the CoS.
Mind you, on Tuesday they're supposed to be considering the English and Scottish cases (and possibly the NI one as well) so not sure how that works?
The fact that the lie was told in Scotland shouldn't matter though. The Westminster parliament is the Union parliament (no laughing at the back) so it is theoretically subject to both Scots and English law.
Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
We’ve always asked, would England be happy to stay in the union if the UKs Parliament was in Scotland and we called the shots?
One court decision is all it took to show how they really see the union.
The original tweet
https://twitter.com/proindygers/stat...814273536?s=19
Just seen a cracker on HIGNFY .
Operation Yellowhammer is an anagram of Orwell Mayhem.
(If you want a vision of the future....)
Not quite but they have a story on how one likes jazz, one is a francophile and the other ruled in favour of Europe once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7892dfa546.jpg
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What do they expect? *jazz hands *Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns