Josh Campbell

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

If we hold onto the 2 goal lead nobody gets blamed . As to singling out certain individuals and blaming them like Rocky for the 2nd goal is ridiculous , as is blaming Campbell too . Me laying into Newell which I don't really want to do should be pointed out as folk are more forgiving of him having a bad game as he's one of our star players though doesn't get away from the fact he was awful yesterday too .

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If we hold on to the two goal lead the mistakes haven’t happened and we wouldn’t need to be talking about it. All totally hypothetical.

Individual and collective mistakes caused us to chuck a two goal lead away and it was really poor, of course that’s going to be spoken about. Particularly for the likes of Rocky making mistakes which many people see as a recurring issue.

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Originally Posted by Brightside

He wasn’t dropped. He wouldn’t start in that 442. It wouldn’t make any sense. Not sure why you’re struggling with that.

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He was definitely dropped.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

If we hold onto the 2 goal lead nobody gets blamed . As to singling out certain individuals and blaming them like Rocky for the 2nd goal is ridiculous , as is blaming Campbell too . Me laying into Newell which I don't really want to do should be pointed out as folk are more forgiving of him having a bad game as he's one of our star players though doesn't get away from the fact he was awful yesterday too .

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Rocky is massively, not solely, but massively at fault for the second goal.

If you dinnae want to see that, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t care if you want to think that.

In my opinion, Rocky made an absolute **** of himself and that action led to us losing the second goal.

Not unexpected, cos that’s what he does.

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Originally Posted by easty

Rocky is massively, not solely, but massively at fault for the second goal.

If you dinnae want to see that, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t care if you want to think that.

In my opinion, Rocky made an absolute **** of himself and that action led to us losing the second goal.

Not unexpected, cos that’s what he does.

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Rocky is indeed at fault with the first goal as were 3 other players that were ball watching in our box also . Rocky could and probably should have put the ball out though he was pushed in the back which the Hibernian manager acknowledged.The defending of the corner was really poor and had absolutely nothing to do with Rocky . Collectively as a team they were all responsible for chucking a two goal lead imo .

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Originally Posted by JohnM1875

Or maybe folk just criticise players after having a bad game? If that happens more than once maybe the player has had a few bad games? It's not always having it in for someone or having an agenda against a certain player.

It's a fan forum, player performances are going to be discussed and debated every single game. If not, what's the point in this forum? It's not a blame game, it's just folk voicing their opinion.

Some folk focus on the negative, some on the positive. It's just peoples nature, everyone is wired differently. I get each side of that pisses the other off, bed wetter vs happy clappers etc, but it's part of the fun of this place, as mental as it is.

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People look for certain players to make mistakes.

They ignore those same mistakes in others.

For example, Lewis Stevenson has been denigrated to some degree or another every season. People look at his mistakes, not the brilliant work he does every week.

Some folk say nothing if the player they dislikes plays well, but go straight into attack mode as soon as an error creeps in.

I remember watching a game in the West lower years ago. Hibs were shooting towards the FF stand and Lewis was having a very good game, up and down our wing, tackling, providing an out ball for the midfield and helping to keep attacks on the boil.

On one occasion, he attempted to cross the ball directly in front of us, but messed it up and it went out for a goal kick. A guy in front of me booms out "Stevenson, you're f****** useless" and turned laughing to his girlfriend and said "He really is s**te".

He wasn't evaluating Lewis's performance or ability. He just wanted someone to blame and criticise.

Edit: Yes, I did say something. Vigorously.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

Everyone on here posts their opinion as a statement surely? :confused:

If someone posts Josh Campbell is a great player, that’s clearly their opinion, although that post is a statement.

I’m sure everyone could add ‘imo’ to the end of every sentence, but I didn’t think people needed things to be spelt out so much to them.

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Speaking personally, I tend to find it aids discussion if people make an effort to add some context to their statement.

we have been trying to find a midfielder who scores goals for a long time. Mallan and McGinn were the last we had and before that probably Dean Shields, Latapy and Pat Mcginley. Goal scoring Midfielders have been like goal dust for us over the years and finding one, shouldn't be taken lightly.

I too have reservations about Josh Campbells passing and ability to influence the midfield..but he is young and he has already proved that he is a footballer who is improving season on season. First let's actually look at his goalscoring record.

In 2019 he went on loan to Airdie and played 14 times without scoring
In 2020 he went to Arbroath and played 9 times without scoring
In 2021 he went to Edinurgh City and played 20 times, scoring 7 goals which is a fantastic return for a midfielder of better than 1 in 3
He has now played for Hibs 66 times and scored 10 goals

A picture of an improving player

so that's one goal in every 6.6 matches....how does that compare to other Hibs scoring midfielders ?

Latapy is the King of the modern era.. with a scoring rate of 1 in 4
Dean Shields is next at 1 in 5 (although he actually played up front sometimes, so we probably shouldn't count this)
Pat McGinley is next at 1 in 6
Josh Campbell 1 in 6.6
Stevie Mallan 1 in 7
Kyle McGennis 1 in 7
Zemmama 1 in 8
Scott Brown 1 in 8.5
John McGinn 1 in 8.5
Boozy 1 in 10
Collins 1 in 11

Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that Josh's overall contribution is on a par with Zemmama, Scott Brown or John McGinn. But his goal scoring record is right up there and he is 23 and can still improve.

As a cub we can decide that a goal every six and a half games isn't enough of a contribution and get rid.. or we can try to improve his passing, tackling and overall influence in midfield. Goal Scoring midfielders are a tough thing to find... I would prefer us to keep trying to improve young Josh, other than Joe Newell he's currently our most valuable midfield asset in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by worcesterhibby

we have been trying to find a midfielder who scores goals for a long time. Mallan and McGinn were the last we had and before that probably Dean Shields, Latapy and Pat Mcginley. Goal scoring Midfielders have been like goal dust for us over the years and finding one, shouldn't be taken lightly.

I too have reservations about Josh Campbells passing and ability to influence the midfield..but he is young and he has already proved that he is a footballer who is improving season on season. First let's actually look at his goalscoring record.

In 2019 he went on loan to Airdie and played 14 times without scoring
In 2020 he went to Arbroath and played 9 times without scoring
In 2021 he went to Edinurgh City and played 20 times, scoring 7 goals which is a fantastic return for a midfielder of better than 1 in 3
He has now played for Hibs 66 times and scored 10 goals

A picture of an improving player

so that's one goal in every 6.6 matches....how does that compare to other Hibs scoring midfielders ?

Latapy is the King of the modern era.. with a scoring rate of 1 in 4
Dean Shields is next at 1 in 5 (although he actually played up front sometimes, so we probably shouldn't count this)
Pat McGinley is next at 1 in 6
Josh Campbell 1 in 6.6
Stevie Mallan 1 in 7
Kyle McGennis 1 in 7
Zemmama 1 in 8
Scott Brown 1 in 8.5
John McGinn 1 in 8.5
Boozy 1 in 10
Collins 1 in 11

Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that Josh's overall contribution is on a par with Zemmama, Scott Brown or John McGinn. But his goal scoring record is right up there and he is 23 and can still improve.

As a cub we can decide that a goal every six and a half games isn't enough of a contribution and get rid.. or we can try to improve his passing, tackling and overall influence in midfield. Goal Scoring midfielders are a tough thing to find... I would prefer us to keep trying to improve young Josh, other than Joe Newell he's currently our most valuable midfield asset in my opinion.

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Not forgetting Michael O’Neill 20% or John O’Neil 10% both approx

I am a big fan of Josh 3:10 so far this season but so far he has looked so far off it it is unreal

I appreciate he has been carrying an injury

Hoping that NM sees his undoubted potential puts an arm around him and brings him on Josh and few others

Onwards and upwards

In the 442 system he’s gonna either have to play up front as a false 9 or on one of the wings cutting inside.

He’s behind Newell, Jeggo, Levitt and JDH (if ever fit) for one of the two CM spots imo.

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Originally Posted by worcesterhibby

we have been trying to find a midfielder who scores goals for a long time. Mallan and McGinn were the last we had and before that probably Dean Shields, Latapy and Pat Mcginley. Goal scoring Midfielders have been like goal dust for us over the years and finding one, shouldn't be taken lightly.

I too have reservations about Josh Campbells passing and ability to influence the midfield..but he is young and he has already proved that he is a footballer who is improving season on season. First let's actually look at his goalscoring record.

In 2019 he went on loan to Airdie and played 14 times without scoring
In 2020 he went to Arbroath and played 9 times without scoring
In 2021 he went to Edinurgh City and played 20 times, scoring 7 goals which is a fantastic return for a midfielder of better than 1 in 3
He has now played for Hibs 66 times and scored 10 goals

A picture of an improving player

so that's one goal in every 6.6 matches....how does that compare to other Hibs scoring midfielders ?

Latapy is the King of the modern era.. with a scoring rate of 1 in 4
Dean Shields is next at 1 in 5 (although he actually played up front sometimes, so we probably shouldn't count this)
Pat McGinley is next at 1 in 6
Josh Campbell 1 in 6.6
Stevie Mallan 1 in 7
Kyle McGennis 1 in 7
Zemmama 1 in 8
Scott Brown 1 in 8.5
John McGinn 1 in 8.5
Boozy 1 in 10
Collins 1 in 11

Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that Josh's overall contribution is on a par with Zemmama, Scott Brown or John McGinn. But his goal scoring record is right up there and he is 23 and can still improve.

As a cub we can decide that a goal every six and a half games isn't enough of a contribution and get rid.. or we can try to improve his passing, tackling and overall influence in midfield. Goal Scoring midfielders are a tough thing to find... I would prefer us to keep trying to improve young Josh, other than Joe Newell he's currently our most valuable midfield asset in my opinion.

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Have we been hunting for a goal scoring midfielder?

That list says to me that our best midfielders haven’t been all that much ‘goal scoring midfielders’. Brown, Collins, McGinn, Scott Allan. None of them have great records goals wise but they were all our best players.

Our midfielders need to do the basics of being a midfielder well. Thats where Josh falls down imo. Yes he can score, but the fundamental aspects of being a midfielder leave a lot to be desired and far outweigh the fact he gets some goals imo.

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Originally Posted by worcesterhibby

we have been trying to find a midfielder who scores goals for a long time. Mallan and McGinn were the last we had and before that probably Dean Shields, Latapy and Pat Mcginley. Goal scoring Midfielders have been like goal dust for us over the years and finding one, shouldn't be taken lightly.

I too have reservations about Josh Campbells passing and ability to influence the midfield..but he is young and he has already proved that he is a footballer who is improving season on season. First let's actually look at his goalscoring record.

In 2019 he went on loan to Airdie and played 14 times without scoring
In 2020 he went to Arbroath and played 9 times without scoring
In 2021 he went to Edinurgh City and played 20 times, scoring 7 goals which is a fantastic return for a midfielder of better than 1 in 3
He has now played for Hibs 66 times and scored 10 goals

A picture of an improving player

so that's one goal in every 6.6 matches....how does that compare to other Hibs scoring midfielders ?

Latapy is the King of the modern era.. with a scoring rate of 1 in 4
Dean Shields is next at 1 in 5 (although he actually played up front sometimes, so we probably shouldn't count this)
Pat McGinley is next at 1 in 6
Josh Campbell 1 in 6.6
Stevie Mallan 1 in 7
Kyle McGennis 1 in 7
Zemmama 1 in 8
Scott Brown 1 in 8.5
John McGinn 1 in 8.5
Boozy 1 in 10
Collins 1 in 11

Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that Josh's overall contribution is on a par with Zemmama, Scott Brown or John McGinn. But his goal scoring record is right up there and he is 23 and can still improve.

As a cub we can decide that a goal every six and a half games isn't enough of a contribution and get rid.. or we can try to improve his passing, tackling and overall influence in midfield. Goal Scoring midfielders are a tough thing to find... I would prefer us to keep trying to improve young Josh, other than Joe Newell he's currently our most valuable midfield asset in my opinion.

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Campbell has actually made 88 appearances for Hibs scoring 13 times. He’s only scored in 8 different games for us.

There have been games when he has been really good, the Aberdeen games last season being the obvious ones but the argument will always be that the rest of his game doesn’t offer enough when he’s not chipping in whereas all of the players listed (probably Mallan aside) offered much more.

It feels like this season under Johnson and in the Killie game like he was almost a pressing forward when we pushed up and a deep lying forward when we were a bit deeper. His best attribute appears to be getting into the box and being there to score which wasn't there under Jack Ross or Shaun Maloney. It's 13 goals in 66 starts and 22 sub appearances but I reckon he'd only scored 1 in about his first 40. So It's about 12 goals in 48 appearances which is 1 in 4 or 1 goal in 2.2 starts which is good going.

I wouldn't play him in a 2 man midfield and he shouldn't be used as the creative player in a 3 man midfield but there's plenty Scottish Premiership matches where his talents can be used in that sort of attacking, pressing midfield role.

I've been disappointed in him this season in that he seems softer, he had a bit of menace about him under Ross and Maloney.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Campbell has actually made 88 appearances for Hibs scoring 13 times. He’s only scored in 8 different games for us.

There have been games when he has been really good, the Aberdeen games last season being the obvious ones but the argument will always be that the rest of his game doesn’t offer enough when he’s not chipping in whereas all of the players listed (probably Mallan aside) offered much more.

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apologies for using out of date figures, although it only goes to show that he is continuing to average a goal every 6.5 games or so.

I agree he doesn't contribute enough in other ways and I said so in my original post. I just think it's worth conrinuing to develop him because goalscoring midfielders are rare.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

Have we been hunting for a goal scoring midfielder?

That list says to me that our best midfielders haven’t been all that much ‘goal scoring midfielders’. Brown, Collins, McGinn, Scott Allan. None of them have great records goals wise but they were all our best players.

Our midfielders need to do the basics of being a midfielder well. Thats where Josh falls down imo. Yes he can score, but the fundamental aspects of being a midfielder leave a lot to be desired and far outweigh the fact he gets some goals imo.

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Tbf we've not exactly had enough of a contribution from the midfield for a while, to be successful you needs goals from all over.

Just out of interest what's Newell, JDH and Levitt's goals for games stats ?

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Just out of interest what's Newell, JDH and Levitt's goals for games stats ?

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8:125

2 :68

10 : 54

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Originally Posted by J-C

Tbf we've not exactly had enough of a contribution from the midfield for a while, to be successful you needs goals from all over.

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To be successful you need to win football matches and to do that it doesn’t matter where the goals come from as long as you outscore your opponent.

We aren’t currently struggling to score goals, in fact if we continue scoring at the current rate we’ll outscore the top flight teams of McLeish, Mowbray and Lennon. Our biggest problem at present is conceding goals at the other end and a big factor in that has been a lack of control in midfield.

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

8:125

2 :68

10 : 54

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Surprised about Newell's , I had expected him to have scored more than that tbh for a creative Midfielder.JDH doesn't score many either. Levitt's is good , hopefully he's one when playing that can chip in with a few goals.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Surprised about Newell's , I had expected him to have scored more than that tbh for a creative Midfielder.JDH doesn't score many either. Levitt's is good , hopefully he's one when playing that can chip in with a few goals.

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Yep what they stats show is we need Levitt back and fit pronto.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

To be successful you need to win football matches and to do that it doesn’t matter where the goals come from as long as you outscore your opponent.

We aren’t currently struggling to score goals, in fact if we continue scoring at the current rate we’ll outscore the top flight teams of McLeish, Mowbray and Lennon. Our biggest problem at present is conceding goals at the other end and a big factor in that has been a lack of control in midfield.

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Yup good point. It’s clear that in NM’s system the two central midfielders must be able to retain possession and control games, otherwise we will continue to look fragile. Josh doesn’t seem to be capable of that.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Campbell has actually made 88 appearances for Hibs scoring 13 times. He’s only scored in 8 different games for us.

There have been games when he has been really good, the Aberdeen games last season being the obvious ones but the argument will always be that the rest of his game doesn’t offer enough when he’s not chipping in whereas all of the players listed (probably Mallan aside) offered much more.

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Mallan aside? I think Mallan offered much more than Campbell does. Mallan played 95 games for Hibs, scoring 20 and assisting 17. He was far better on the ball.

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Originally Posted by easty

Mallan aside? I think Mallan offered much more than Campbell does. Mallan played 95 games for Hibs, scoring 20 and assisting 17. He was far better on the ball.

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Yep. Mallan was better than Campbell.

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Originally Posted by easty

Mallan aside? I think Mallan offered much more than Campbell does. Mallan played 95 games for Hibs, scoring 20 and assisting 17. He was far better on the ball.

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Got to disagree with this. While Mallan had a knack for scoring some very good goals, his best asset, he was a horrible midfielder. His passing was usually wayward, he couldn’t tackle or offer anything defensively and his positioning was very poor.

Campbell is a much better all round player. His ball retention could be better and his overall technique isn’t as good as Mallan’s was but his intelligence and what he offers overall is much, much better. Mallan now plays for Salford.

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Originally Posted by JimBHibees

Yep what they stats show is we need Levitt back and fit pronto.

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Definitely , going by the goals scored Levitt is an important player for us to get back fit especially with Campbell off form . Still think Campbell will come good again though getting Levitt back might see him chip in with a few goals . Can't see many goals from a midfield pairing of Newell and JDH tbh .

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Originally Posted by KWJ

It feels like this season under Johnson and in the Killie game like he was almost a pressing forward when we pushed up and a deep lying forward when we were a bit deeper. His best attribute appears to be getting into the box and being there to score which wasn't there under Jack Ross or Shaun Maloney. It's 13 goals in 66 starts and 22 sub appearances but I reckon he'd only scored 1 in about his first 40. So It's about 12 goals in 48 appearances which is 1 in 4 or 1 goal in 2.2 starts which is good going.

I wouldn't play him in a 2 man midfield and he shouldn't be used as the creative player in a 3 man midfield but there's plenty Scottish Premiership matches where his talents can be used in that sort of attacking, pressing midfield role.

I've been disappointed in him this season in that he seems softer, he had a bit of menace about him under Ross and Maloney.

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Under Maloney he was awful (partly through how Maloney used him), that was the period when he was getting pilloried from all sides, and where the Newell-jdh-Campbell midfield cemented itself in infamy.

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Originally Posted by easty

Mallan aside? I think Mallan offered much more than Campbell does. Mallan played 95 games for Hibs, scoring 20 and assisting 17. He was far better on the ball.

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Based on that aye he was. Previous poster had him down as a 1 in 7 though.

Do think numbers can be a bit misleading, just generally. If you look at Campbell’s numbers of 13 goals and 9 assists in 88 appearances it doesn’t look too bad for a midfielder. But then you look at it and a third of those combined numbers came across a couple of games and you start to see the contributions are pretty infrequent.

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Originally Posted by Paloschi

Got to disagree with this. While Mallan had a knack for scoring some very good goals, his best asset, he was a horrible midfielder. His passing was usually wayward, he couldn’t tackle or offer anything defensively and his positioning was very poor.

Campbell is a much better all round player. His ball retention could be better and his overall technique isn’t as good as Mallan’s was but his intelligence and what he offers overall is much, much better. Mallan now plays for Salford.

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by Paloschi

Got to disagree with this. While Mallan had a knack for scoring some very good goals, his best asset, he was a horrible midfielder. His passing was usually wayward, he couldn’t tackle or offer anything defensively and his positioning was very poor.

Campbell is a much better all round player. His ball retention could be better and his overall technique isn’t as good as Mallan’s was but his intelligence and what he offers overall is much, much better. Mallan now plays for Salford.

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He didn't just score goals, he also assisted far more than Campbell does. He's miles better on the ball than Campbell.

Campbell is definitely a better athlete.

I cannae work out how, out of 2 attacking midfield players, the player who scores less, assists less, who's less comfortable on the ball and has worse technique is the "all round better player"?

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Based on that aye he was. Previous poster had him down as a 1 in 7 though.

Do think numbers can be a bit misleading, just generally. If you look at Campbell’s numbers of 13 goals and 9 assists in 88 appearances it doesn’t look too bad for a midfielder. But then you look at it and a third of those combined numbers came across a couple of games and you start to see the contributions are pretty infrequent.

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Well we don't just start to see it because you mention it in most posts. Personally I'm not convinced its relevant. I do agree numbers can be misleading, you fail to mention 22 of Josh's appearances were as a sub, some very fleeting. In his starts Josh has played at right back, wide left, holding mid, box to box mid and on Saturday he came on and went up front. I think those details put his 'infequency' of games in which he scored in some perspective.

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Originally Posted by brog

Well we don't just start to see it because you mention it in most posts. Personally I'm not convinced its relevant. I do agree numbers can be misleading, you fail to mention 22 of Josh's appearances were as a sub, some very fleeting. In his starts Josh has played at right back, wide left, holding mid, box to box mid and on Saturday he came on and went up front. I think those details put his 'infequency' of games in which he scored in some perspective.

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There you go, you can use the numbers to suit yourself either way. He has shifted about a bit position wise but the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park and I don’t think he has enough end product consistently enough to play there. And I don’t think he has enough good attributes to play deeper in a Montgomery team, looking at how we are going to be set up. Reckon his game time will reduce this season.