I'm still hoping they don't bill us for the Huns threadQuote:
Originally Posted by poolman
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I'm still hoping they don't bill us for the Huns threadQuote:
Originally Posted by poolman
Ah right bang goes my theory, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
So if a player is loaned to hearts via kaunas say roman bednar for example, I dont think he ever set foot in lithuania but was signed for then and immediatly loaned to hearts would hmrc have a case about his earnings being half paid in lithuania?
HMRC have all the rules on their side. They wrote them after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibee87
This scheme that they dreamt up to register the players in Kaunus before being loaned to the Yams has to be shown to be for " commercial reasons " not just a tax saving device.
If it can't be shown there was sound commercial reasons for operating the scheme, the HMRC have the power to set aside the scheme and apply the tax rules as if the scheme never existed.
In other words tax, NI on the lot with interest and penalties as far back as 2006. There has been notes on the Yam accounts going back to 2008 about this investigation.
If he was loaned to Hearts, then he isn't their employee. They have no responsibility in PAYE terms; they would pay Kaunas a fee per month. Which is where my confusion arises. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibee87
However, HMRC may have concluded that he IS an employee. Such decisions aren't up to the employer or employee... they are often decided on the basis of a number of facts. If that is the case, then all of the loaned players would be subject to PAYE.
If that is HMRC's position, and it is supported by the FTT, that could have serious implications for all cross-border loans.
I've been assuming the tax case was a twist on the transfer pricing operation - e.g. V owns company Y in Scotland and company K in Lithuania. Tax rates are lower in Lithuania so K sell goods to Y at inflated prices to reduce Y's profits and increase K's making V's overall tax bill lower than it should have been. The same principle can be applied to wages so that V pays less for employees working in Scotland by paying them through K rather than Y. Neither arrangement is legal and the onus is on the taxpayer rather than HMRC to prove that such an arrangement didn't exist.
I don't log on often, normally lurching in the background as a guest, but these few days I feel the need to contribute to what I have no doubt will become the longest thread in hibs.net history over the coming months, dwarfing the already legendary Rangers thread.
This is history in the making for our city rivals. Unfortunately for them it's soon to be the end of their history.
It's going to be a long slow death over the next few months. I'm afraid (not!) that the cancer is terminal for Jambos. :na na:
I'm off to get a huge bag of pop corn and watch this unfold.
This is undoubtedly the start of the end. GIRUY!
Especially considering some of these players never played or even trained with Kaunas for the duration of their contract. Loans are legitimate means of getting players off the wage bill, or giving players game time before they either return to the parent club or get sold on. Either way it is ultimately the parent club which has the benefit of reduced wage bill for a period, improved player returning to them or an improved transfer fee at the end. How did Kaunas benefit from any of this? Reduced wage bill - No, increased because of the new player they signed. Player returns better - No. Increased transfer fees at the end - Unclear where these went. They got player "registration fees," whatever they are, but I struggle to see how they made any money out of it. The question HMRC will be asking is "Why didn't hearts just pay the transfer fee and sign the players themselves and save going through a 3rd party?" If Kaunas benefited and Hearts benefited, then surely Hearts would have been better off just removing the 3rd party and buying the player themselves. Unless there was some sort of tax benefit to buying the players through the Lithuanian club and loaning them to Hearts.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
As an aside, did anyone notice this photo in the share brochure?
Attachment 8779
Can anyone explain the reason behind putting this picture into the section for the terms and conditions? Other than the obvious "5-1" hand signal the ref is giving.....:rolleyes:
My opinion is about as inexpert as it gets, but I'm assuming that HMRC have taken the view that Hearts are at it, in claiming that some of their players are employed by Kaunas. Some of them are quite clearly Hearts' players alone, and have no involvement (other than their wages) with Kaunas. If you add to their obvious non-employment at Kaunas the advantage that is gained by the owner of both clubs, there is surely at least room for suspicion that they are avoiding paying UK taxes by employing people through kid-on loans.:dunno:
Claros, and the many other foreign loanees plying their trade here, look like genuine loans because they have an employment history at the club that claims to employ them, and they generally go back there.
No?
[Edit: and Sergio Sledge has beaten me to it....:greengrin]
I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio sledge
They are 110% obsessed with us. Nothing matters during the season as long as they beat us. Small minds have small pleasures. They are far too busy with pictures of various coppers, refs and former players doing the 5-1 thing to notice that are on the way out of the SPL very soon.
I truly hope the taxman and the SPL bosses absolutely bury this club, the 3rd division isn't just punishment for them, they need a Gretna type expulsion.
That is correct. The share offer brochure specifically states the tax dispute is to do with players "loaned" from Kaunas to Hearts. They have signed several players on loan from other foreign clubs since Romanov took over (eg1 Skacel in his first spell there, eg2 Pinilla) and they aren't subject to this action.Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
They all have their heads in the sand... Delusional. Craigan mentioned the other nite that the day before the story came out bout the 1.75 mill tax bill they was going to be a share issue trying to raise....mmmm let me think. 1.75 mill.
Anyone of them who puts their cash to that needs to visit the Andrew Duncan ( and no disrespect to those at Andrew Duncan meant)
I hope they get dragged through the nite. Stripped of everything. I get a feeling that the mad one has a wee sneaky up his sleeve when the rug gets pulled.
Something like o the ground doesn't belong to them it's leased from someone else.
I really do hope this happens as I won't need a crimbo or birthday present as their demise would be more than enough for me.
So, Kaunus buy a player who immediately goes "on loan" to Hearts.
The transfer fee/signing on fee/agent fee is then recouped by the mysterious "player registrations" which Hearts paid.
Hearts then avoid PAYE on the salary.
Is this a possible scenario?
CG , CWG or PTS
In the share brochure they say that the 'burden of proof is on the company' does this mean that:
1. HMRC has a stated and probably common sense position on this ?
2. It is up to Hearts to disprove this ?
3. This is almost sewn up from an HMRC view ?
When I was Contracting (don't ask and you won't get hurt :wink:) I was aware that there is a rule that says once you have been in an country (possibly EU only though, can't remember) more than 182 days, you are due to pay tax in that country.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Is this not relevant in this instance? For instance, Bednar signs for Kaunas but plays all his football at Hearts, more than 182 days. HMRC consider this to be de-facto employement by Hearts and therefore adjudge him to be 100% liable to UK taxation.
Or is this too simplistic?
HMRC have made an assessment, which HMFC have appealled against. It is now up to HMFC to prove the basis of their appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Like it was the end for Rangers?Quote:
Originally Posted by cocteautwin
Cast your eyes over to Ibrox. Sitting top of their league, millions of debt cast off, riding roughshod over the authorities, laughing at other teams and their supporters and more unscrupulous people taking over trying to make a fast buck.
My prediction to the end of all this will see Hearts suffering some kind of sanctions allied to their financial woes but the future will be pretty much as it is for Rangers. Carry on regardless.
It's kind of relevant. The number of days aren't important (although that would be if they were actual employees), but I am veering towards the theory that HMRC have decided that they ARE employees, no matter what anyone says.Quote:
Originally Posted by keekaboo
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
Is that Craig Thomson doing the hands gesture? :rolleyes:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ults-1-2602698
Enjoyed this, apologies if posted already!
If it isnt it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyRod
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20140052
according to mcfud it's all celtics fault.
Sadly, because its a dig at Celtic, everybody will agree with him. Although his reasoning behind not wanting Celtic in the league, will greatly differ from our own and other club supporters that aren't jambos or huns.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxtonhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxtonhibby
Well, it seems they now have the same victim complex as their big brothers in the west. They think everything is Celtcs fault as well but nothing is the fault of Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco.
FWIW, I wouldn't like to see Celtc leave the league now, seeing as the league is closer than it's been for decades.
In the link ....Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxtonhibby
"At the minute it's exciting because from week to week someone else is second in the league," McGlynn continued.
Celtc could be 4th at 5.00pm on Saturday if results work out (though, admittedly I think they'll win the league).
Scots law blog talks Hearts share issue
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...ie-hards-only/
Under the headingQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Specific Risks Factors – Working Capital Shortfall
It says Hearts may need a "payday" loan if they have insufficient working Capital!
Will Wonga step in
Decent read,now we're is my cheque book :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
:confused: I wasn't directly commenting on or challenging anything that you have said in my last post so not sure why you're replying to me here. :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
I know you've commented a lot on Hearts' situation over the years and I know you've looked at it a lot in quite great detail.
All I was saying was that I really want to see them finally meet the justice that they deserve for their overspending and general cheating during the Romanov reign and I have heard so many people, for about the past five or six years, saying that Hearts were going to be finished by such and such a day and would be in administration etc and it's just never happened.
I will admit that this latest comment admitting serious concerns from one of their own directors looks and sounds quite promising but I just don't want to get my hopes up.
However, that is not to say that I am doubting your knowledge of the situation.
You have to bow to his experience tho :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by hoxtonhibby
He's managed in rhe S P L for three months now :agree:
He's also managed teams like Easthouses Lily and Musselburgh Athletic :rolleyes:
Hi lads, just thought I'd pop in to let you know I'm still absolutely laughing my heid aff one week later.
Might as well remind you that Hearts are going to their most favourite away venue this weekend. Hope the fond memories of that famous day bring an even bigger smile to your face.
Aw ****** it, might as well go for it, can someone put up a link? (Any photos of that guy greeting would be appreciated as well)
“What is being offered are shares in a company where the buyer’s holding can be diluted without their approval; where there is no market for the shares; where there is no prospect of a dividend; where the company is effectively insolvent and therefore the shares are worthless the minute the buyer writes a cheque for them.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread about Craig Gordons move to Sunderland,now did his contract get switched to Kaunas before this transfer thus meaning that the £10mil fee would be paid to them rather than
Sevco 2 and in someway dodging more tax??
I have absolutely no idea on this but was just wondering if that could be what raised suspicions if a contract changed hands shortly before a big money transfer.
That makes good reading but to be honest many of us who are Hibs shareholders did so purely on the basis that they were buying into "their Club" with no prospect of any future financial gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
I remember the bleak days of the Mercer takeover when our supporters (acting out of desperation) went out and purchased Hibs shares with a view to preventing the Devil incarnate from purchasing any further shares.
I can visualise that supporters of THEM will indeed go ahead and purchase shares in a last desperate throw of the dice to save their tawdry club.
The more money that these deluded f***tards p*ss up a wall in order to save they're horrible little club the better. Unlike the takeover bid, the buying of shares was a tactical move to block him getting more. Hearts share offer is nothing more than a grubby plea for cash from a grubby institution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
Every penny they spend trying to do a Canute and fighting the tide is a penny they don't have to invest in the inevitable maroonsevco, and the worse off they are in the long run.
When they end up in division 3, or lower, it'll be interesting to see if their "big team" mantra doesn't even hold true in the bottom tier of the league.
I don't want them to die. I just want them to suffer. For ever.
This is what I have contended the problem to be. It seems like tax evasion rather thand tax avoidance, which is probably why HMRC are now chasing them. As the onus is on Hertz to prove their case, I await a, no doubt, convulted fairy tale from Romanov and his minions to squirm out of the very deep pile of sh*te they are now in.:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
Good to see they're finally admitting who was really thier key player in the final.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio sledge
I suspect that the immediate reaction of the share sale flop by Vlad will be to instruct a massive fire sale in January and claim that it is not his fault. As can be seen from Kaunas, he won't give a **** if they drop down several divisions.
A few years in the lower leagues until the property market recovers, and then UBIG call in the debt leading to the sale of the PBS.
The slow lingering death that would be the best option for me, I think.
Yeah but the mad one knows there is a 1.75 million HMRC bill on its way and wait they want to raise 1.75 million in a share issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
If you buy into the club yur shares are worth nowt before you even start and when they go tits up they'll be worth absolutely diddly ****. No even worth the paper they are written.
Please please please Santa bring me the demise of the Yams.
It's simply a financial donation and even the yams are not stupid enough to think otherwise.(I think!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo
When you put it like that...where do I sign up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
I'm very concerned by the number of Hibs fans stating in this thread that they'd sign up. Don't you realise that each of you will cost Hearts money if they have to print and post a prospectus to you, then pay the post office to collect it because you didn't put enough postage on the reply and finally pay for someone to wade through all the applications from M Mouse, R Skacel and W Mercer?
I still have my thousand shares. The way I am going it will be all I leave my kids:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
You failed to mention though that you will have to collect the prospectus first of all and pay the postage as they send it out with no postage !
Long, slow, painful journey into obscurity.
Post date your cheque 2020 never?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minder
Now I'm no expert in the goings on at Hearts, but I've felt for a long time that the only player in this whole sorry saga from a Hearts perspective who will emerge with his dignity intact will be Chris Robinson. The guy would have sold Tynecastle, yes, but would I be right in saying he was hounded into selling up to Romanov by the obnoxious Deans and the imbecile Foulkes? Both those clowns and many others castigated Robinson to anyone who would listen whilst at the same time fawning over Romanov and buying into his ludicrous predictions for the glorious future. Of course, these guys appear to have crawled back under their rocks, funnily enough not having too much to say for themselves these days. I'm surprised Robinson has remained silent though, and I think that it could be interesting to hear his views on all what has happened. We may hear soon enough, and as I said, I feel he will be the only one who can hold his head up and sleep easy with a clear conscience if this goes the way that the more informed posters on this thread predict.
The Hearts fans turned on Robinson in a nasty way. Fairly sure he got a bit of hassle in the street for a while.
Then the EEN started its own campaign with regular stories about the ''ousted'' chairman's leylandii in his garden. I would like to see him vindicated after all this.
Also: thought they were cutting back? Why has Edgaras Jankauskas just turned up to be Assistant to the bus driver? Wonder what odds you'd get on him being manager by Xmas?
my opinion too, that the tax man kens their at it, and he is about to explain to them, just exactly how he kens.and just as a wee sidenote: if all these guys came from or through lithuania, to play here, where did they stay/who paid for the lodgings, and was this declared or just used as a tool to avoid paying taxes/ we've known/guessed/surmised for years that the gorgie mob have been at it, and the tax man isnae just doing this to keep his fellow taxmen in employment to prevent the from working on the side:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
:dizzy: :greengrin
I think this is a definite possibility. My other thought is it may be simply a way of buying players yams could otherwise not afford. Put simply for a yam player to receive £10k a week net of tax his contract would be for £16k approx. I have no idea re Lithuanian tax rates but assume they're lower. If Vlad saved say £4k a week per player then 5 players = £1mm a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
I wonder if all these dodgy transfers and loans deals started as soon as Romanov took over or was after Phil Anderton got emptied and Mr Campbell Ogilvie arrived on the scene that the Yams started digging their own grave.
Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Are you sure ? I have never seen any payments to any kind of trust fund in any of the Yams annual accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Still we can always hope ! :greengrin
Of course, if all the player payments channeled through Lithland were not on the contracts it is equally damaging.
If there are, then they aren't disclosed in the accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Why do you think he'd have a clear conscience? It was his ridiculous overspending that got them into the £20M+ of debt in the first place. Just another jumped up delusional "3rd force" Yam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carheenlea
I don't think that's the case at all. EBTs were instigated at Rangers by the Murray Group. You had some Huns arguing for a while that Murray should accept any liability for the big tax case. Ogilvie received some EBT payments, but there isn't any evidence to suggest he was in charge of the scheme or that he imported it to Hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
As far as football sanctions against Hearts go, people are getting way ahead of themselves. Even if the tax tribunal finds in HMRC's favour that the players should have been fully taxed in the UK, that doesn't necessarily mean that SFA or SPL rules were broken. As long as Hearts declared the full payment to players, they will have complied. The contention that the wrong amount of tax was deducted isn't relevant.
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?228678-EBT-s
This was discussed before and while certainly not conclusive, I'm pretty certain it was also openly discussed by Rangerstaxcase a while ago.
I may have green tinted specs but I'd wager it was true.
I know mate, my rant was somewhat misdirected - it was your first sentence "I'll believe it when I see it." that got me going. I usually go to some lengths to explain my comments, as do others, and then someone (not you as far as I remember) pops up with "wishful thinking/we all know it's not going to happen" type comments without offering any sort of counter-argument. We can never be sure one way or the other but these guys are despite never bringing anything of value to the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
Sorry for any offence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
How do we do this?
Hearts don't pay some of their players once - very unlikely they pay any of them twice!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
I'm sure every member of each household would like to take up this marvellous investment opportunity. My goldfish Alan is especially keen.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenSQH
I sort of agree with that. The plan to move from Tynecastle was understandably unpopular but in truth it was the least bad option he had (apart from finding a sugardaddy) and in truth, was moving to a bigger, better stadium a few hundred yards away really that bad? The atmosphere would certainly have suffered, but I reckon they could have countered that by only opening certain parts of the stadium. Undoubtedly they'd be in a healthier position now if they'd taken their medicine then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carheenlea
Certainly he overspent and probably mismanaged the club somewhat, but he inherited a real mess from Mercer. The stadium was half finished and sub-standard with a commitment to complete to the same low but expensive standards, and the finances were far from being healthy. HoMFC have had ideas above their station since well before Pieman's time but he tried to go some way towards reining them back, at least towards the end of his regime.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The two cup defeats they've dolled out to us, done with teams they couldn't afford. If they fold up they should be stripped just like the Zombie hun are about to be. :cb
I am led to believe that this isn't the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
Well make sure he and anyone else intrested prints out page 21-22 of this and send its back.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/44/b9/0,,10289~178500,00.pdf
The Share Manager
Heart Of Midlothian PLC
Tynecastle Park
Gorgie Road
Edinburgh
EH11 2NL
Most excellent, Alsn says cheers. Ian my budgie could maybe be talked into this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenSQH
Rangers are likely to lose their league titles but I'm not sure whether they are getting chased for their cups? It may be that the cup competitions have different registration rules and that dual-contracts may not have ruled certain players out of the cup competitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibby
:dunno:
Does anyone know if Rangers are likely to be stripped of cup wins? Or if that is something that would be pursued along with titles?Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
I would honestly laugh and probably never stop if Hearts were stripped of last seasons. Can you imagine it? A match that they can basically rip the you know what out of us for the rest of our lives. If that was suddenly taken away due to them being cheating tax dodging ****bags.
It would never take the hurt away that I felt on the day, but I would certainly feel a lot better and would raise a wee glass to justice being done.
I'm sure I read it was just the League Cup that they would not loose, but could loose League & Scottish Cup titlesQuote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...t-plan-1167046
I can't see how they would be stripped of 2012, even if there was a discrepancy, because I don't think they had any players on loan from Kaunas last season. 2006 would be in trouble though.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
The HMRC have been putting this case together for a couple of years now, I doubt even Hearts would be stupid enough to continue paying wages from Lithuania after the HMRC had started their investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
Sorry to pour cold water on any of this, but thus far Hearts haven't been accused of anything that would warrant stripping them of anything. There is no suggestion (yet) of double-contracts or the like. "All" they are accused of is not complying with tax law. I don't think there is any precedent anywhere (including Rangers) for teams losing titles etc because of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
How do you present a trophy to a team that no longer exists???Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
Would actually highlight how much of a joke Scottish Football has become, that Gretna are in the running for a Scottish Cup title?
Re-awarding cup wins is very tricky. On the face of it it should be awarded to the runner-up, but then all the other teams that Hearts (or Rangers, in their cases) knocked out earlier in the competition could argue that they would have gone on to win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Maybe not a direct suggestion of double contracts, but there is a suggestion that the players were receiving 2 wages .. one (small one) from Hearts and one (large one) from Lithuania.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If the one from Lithuania was registered with the League then they've nothing to worry about.
If it wasn't, is it any different to the additional EBT payments that Rangers players received?
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
HMRC can demand info from UK employer and UK employee - and the info will not tie - as payments are also sent/received via Lithuania.
I wouldnae be confident if I was a Yam
The HMRC action might hit them financially, but it's unlikely to affect them in that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
In any case, the tax case applies to a previous period.
As ever, Stevie, I'm sitting on the fence. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
The "suggestions" have all come from the media and the message boards. In other words, with little authority. The one you mention would indeed have them in double-contract territory. But "mere" tax-dodging doesn't seem to be a hanging offence yet.
It's cold up here on the fence......
I don't understand this bit, G.Quote:
Originally Posted by TQM
If a player was receiving, and declaring, £1000pw from Hearts, but was paid another £4k from Kaunus into a Lith based bank account, how would HMRC prove it?
Co-operation with the Lithuanian tax authorities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
All that would do would prove that the player had or hadn't been paying the correct amount of tax. It would have no relevance to Hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
If they have been operating the correct PAYE codes (as issued by HMRC), then it's none of their business what the players have been paid elsewhere; that's entirely between the player and the tax authorities here and abroad.
Slightly o/t, but this caught my eye being referred to on kickback. Was anyone else aware of a previous episode of Yammish financial shenanigans?
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241543_1011739
Does this amount to a Hearts newco? In which case, scrub 3 Scottish cups and 2 league titles from their honours. Making Hibs comfortably Edinburgh's most successful club (since league titles are trumps). :wink:Quote:
Financial Crisis
During season 1904-05 the club ran into financial difficulties because the limited company formed in 1903 was unable to continue after debts amounting to £1,400 had accumulated. In March 1905 at a Quarterly General Meeting, a resolution, "Proposal for Temporary Loans from Present Shareholders", was defeated by 94 votes to 72, but later that month, three resolutions were passed and the company was voluntarily wound up. On 29 April 1905, the present company was incorporated on the Register of Companies and the new concern picked up the debt which had increased to £1,600. Despite a problem selling all the new shares it cleared this debt within a reasonably short time.
4 Championships, 2 Scottish cups, 3 Scottish League cups vs 2 Championships, 5 Scottish cups*, 4 Scottish League cups
* if they get to keep them all.
So it's ok for Hearts to pay a player in Litas and in Sterling and in 2 separate countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I'm well confused.
While Mercer was a bad man, for a host of reasons and probably manipulated a higher offer out of Robinson by using Hearts minded businessmen to promote an alternative offer for the club (They were actually advised not to get involved by Sir Davie Murray as he thought it was a sure fire way to lose serious money..the irony) he did construct usable stands that were relatively inexpensive. He also had the Council lined up to take a lease on the dead space under the third stand which went a good way to actually paying for it. This disappeared as quickly as the existing Gorgie pie supplier when Robinson got involved. Robinson was out of his depth and didnt have, or was able to source, the cash to lose that was needed to maintain the Gorgie excesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
When folks on here were talking about Craig Gordon situation, I remembered about this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Gon%C3%A7alves refusing to sign a new deal, as it was going to be a Kaunas contract and not a Hearts one. FJK then told the media that was dropping him as did not want to stay with the "Big" team (We all knew it was Vlad that dropped him :agree:) and then was promptly shipped out on loan to Germany for not playing nice with Vlad :greengrinSo he was signed by Kaunas, yet never played for them :confused:
2006–2008 Kaunas 0 (0) 2006–2008 → Hearts (loan) 38 (0) 2008–2010 Hearts 20 (2) 2008–2009 → 1. FC Nuremberg (loan) 14 (0)
How many other have gone down this route!
Sorry, your post said that it was Kaunas who paid them in Lithuania. That's what my post referred to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
If Hearts chose to pay them in different currencies, then there's nothing wrong with that either, as long as they were paid under PAYE. (and, as I keep saying, :greengrin, as long as they are Hearts' employees)
It's ok I realise they haven't been accused yet and also that there is no precedent. I just like to hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
To those replying that they were not paying players via Lithuania last year. What about the possibility of players who were previously paid by Kaunas but who still played for Hearts last season. Im thinking of the likes of Zaliukas or Novikovas. I know I'm clutching at straws here but I just want to believe that there is the slightest possibility.
Come on people, give me something here! :greengrin
wouldn't they just be 're writing the history books'?Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Doesn't matter the club no longer exists, they clearly did at the time.
Yes, that's what they'd do.Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortablynumb
I'm just highlighting the fact that it was a team that came from nowhere, (potentially) won a cup, and then disappeared again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
Best chance is with Skacel. At his court case in the dispute with his agent it was stated his salary as per his contract was 190,000 euro per year about £ 3000 per week.
I don't think the player came back to Hearts to get paid a lot less than some of the other donkeys.
Trouble is nobody is asking any questions --- Yet !
That'll do, thanks! :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
In the unlikely event that anything like this did happen it would make no difference to me - they still had their day. It's the same with all the Rangers titles they may lose, all they lose is a few lines in the history books, the fans still had a magic day - the hangovers, the cup parades, bragging rights for a period of time.
For the same reason 7-0, 6-2, 5-1 or 4-0 now mean almost nothing to me. 7-0 (was not at) and 6-2 (was at) will mean at lot less to me than a scabby 1-0 win at the piggery in the next derby.
As an aside seems that the "mug punter share issue" has a few takers.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...ssue-1-2607161
not so much a piece of journalism there as a straight out sales pitch to the fans, no mention of the potential (highly likely) to lose all your money, I appreciate that its in an edinburgh paper and written by a jambo, but ffs a proper journalist would get a quote from a city trader or someone who knows the stock market who could say something like 'you'd be more likely to get a return by eating your money and waiting to see if you **** gold'Quote:
Originally Posted by EskbankHibby
I almost feel sorry for the jumbos who are buying into this, almost.
Some Yam Fud....“I don’t think it’s a case of Hearts not being here if people don’t buy into this, but they will struggle and they will have to cut back even more. They could still be a big club but they won’t be a top club.Quote:
Originally Posted by EskbankHibby
Cannae help themselves
I wouldn't want a retrospective award of a Scottish Cup title.
more fool them - mind you, I am not sure people as credulous as this should have unsupervised access to their own bank account:Quote:
Originally Posted by EskbankHibby
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Supporters want to back their club in its hour of need following statements from director Sergejus Fedotovas stressing that the situation is now “serious” as the board seeks new investment. Steve Kilgour, secretary of the Federation of Hearts Supporters’ Clubs, said: “Of the fans I’ve spoken to so far, I’d say about 95 per cent of them are interested in buying shares. Most of the ones I’ve spoken to go to games week in and week out and the feedback has been very positive. The majority of people I’ve spoken to are going to buy shares.
“I think people realise we have to do something to help the club. The ultimatum is you either back them or watch them dwindle. The folk I’ve talked to are loyal Hearts fans and willing to back the club. If you have the club’s best interests at heart, then you have to back this. In the absence of a better alternative at the moment, we have to back the share scheme.
“I don’t think it’s a case of Hearts not being here if people don’t buy into this, but they will struggle and they will have to cut back even more. They could still be a big club but they won’t be a top club.
“If what we’re getting told is 100 per cent true, which I tend to believe it is, then I think the club has been as transparent as they can be. If you’re honest with the fans, the fans will back you. That’s what we’ve always said. It’s like any walk of life, if people feel they’re getting duped they will walk away.
“At my own supporters’ club, Livingston Hearts, our members have really got behind it. They’ve actually asked to organise a fundraiser so we can buy shares in the name of the supporters’ club. That’s on top of what anyone might do as an individual.”
Agreed, pointless and it wouldn't feel real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
I wouldn't want awarded the cup either. I would just want them found guilty of cheating and subsequently stripped of their greatest ever victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
Despite the fact they still had their day, if they had the trophy taken back then that would hurt their fans - to the point of them probably feeling physically sick.
That would please me a lot.