Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

"was" totally irrelevant to the next PM

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He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

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Again, relevance to our new 2019 PM?

This whole place is literally a pissing contest of political points scoring

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Genius :top marks


https://youtu.be/kQSbav9GFfI

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Again, relevance to our new 2019 PM?

This whole place is literally a pissing contest of political points scoring

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Correct. It smacks of the Old Firm whataboutary.

“Aye, but they Tims/Huns did (insert outrage)”.

J

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Guilty of what in Johnson's case?

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He's definitely a bigot, almost certainly racist, undoubtedly misogynist and now suspected of domestic abuse. No way should he even be considered for the job but he's being chosen as leader by our morally corrupt Tory party.

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Originally Posted by James310

Can you clarify, are you suggesting a guilty Alex Salmond is equivalent to the current gaffe prone and buffoon Boris Johnson?

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See above post and no. I'm say if guilty the none of them should ever be allowed to lead and represent a country.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

He was First Minister of Scotland for seven years, twice leader of Scotland's biggest political party and a long-serving Westminster MP. Fair to say he's occupied high office.

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As soon as I've finished my time machine I'll pop back and let us know that there's a few accusations hanging over Alex Salmonds head. On the mean time you sort Boris out.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

See above post and no. I'm say if guilty the none of them should ever be allowed to lead and represent a country.

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Agreed, thanks for clarifying. Some of our fellow posters were not so forthcoming.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

It doesn't need to be equivalent. Boris Johnson has openly done quite enough already not to be anywhere near the top job. He doesn't need to be found guilty of anything else, he's openly guilty of things that should stop him in his tracks. But England is full of mentalists just like the US and the more openly criminal and racist he is, the more the white people of middle England love "good old Bojo".

Alex isn't openly guilty of anything thus far. So it's impossible to compare him to Boris at this moment in time. However, if he is found guilty, you can be sure he won't be near a top job ever again in Scotland, because we're not complete nutjobs up here.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Just the minority non-racist ones.



If you want to write off openly racist comments as "gaffe ridden", then that's your business. Although i'd imagine most people in Scotland would disagree with you.

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Scotland probably has the same percentage of racist bigots as England.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Scotland probably has the same percentage of racist bigots as England.

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I think we have less.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I think we have less.


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Do you agree with Fife that the majority of English are racist bigots whilst it’s a minority in Scotland?
I wish I could find it but the last research I saw showed that we shared pretty much the same values as our Southern neighbours.

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I think we have less.


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sc...itics-44040251


Scotland had a higher rate of murders that were known or suspected to have a racist element than the rest of the UK, at 1.8 murders per million people compared to 1.3 between 2000 and the 2013.

SNP MSP Ivan McKee, the deputy convener of the group, said: "We have never shied away from the fact that Scotland is no more immune from Islamophobia and racism than anywhere else and that this serious problem must be tackled head-on.

Does not really back up your point does it?

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Originally Posted by James310

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

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That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

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Originally Posted by James310

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sc...itics-44040251


Scotland had a higher rate of murders that were known or suspected to have a racist element than the rest of the UK, at 1.8 murders per million people compared to 1.3 between 2000 and the 2013.

SNP MSP Ivan McKee, the deputy convener of the group, said: "We have never shied away from the fact that Scotland is no more immune from Islamophobia and racism than anywhere else and that this serious problem must be tackled head-on.

Does not really back up your point does it?

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What do you think of Hibs new strips, the sponsorship thing, the guys we've signed, the rumoured signing targets?

Oh I forgot, you don't have an opinion on any of that do you?

Your posts are exclusively political and I wonder how many forums you are currently pleasuring with your non-Hibs, non-football contributions.

There's a lot of racism, bigotry and intolerance in Scotland. It's nonsense to suggest that being born north of the border somehow renders people more multicultural.

The fact that people who openly admit that their default position is to dislike/hate "The English" are tolerated, even on this forum, in itself debunks the myth that we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

FWIW, I know loads of English people, none of whom are racist.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

What do you think of Hibs new strips, the sponsorship thing, the guys we've signed, the rumoured signing targets?

Oh I forgot, you don't have an opinion on any of that do you?

Your posts are exclusively political and I wonder how many forums you are currently pleasuring with your non-Hibs, non-football contributions.

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Put me on ignore, do us both a favour.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but with the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

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I think you've made a decent argument for us being pretty much the same whichever side of the border we live.
I don't think its a case of claiming the moral high ground. There are problems due to bigotry of whatever kind all over the UK but to suggest that the majority of either country are bigots just seems plain wrong to me. The vast majority of us, Scots or English, are decent human beings willing to live and let live. Unless I'm mixing with the wrong people of course. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by James310

Put me on ignore, do us both a favour.

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You can ignore me if you want or just continue to avoid the question.

This is a forum for Hibs supporters or those of other clubs to talk about Hibs and all things football.

I've yet to see a single post that suggests your in any way interested in football, let alone Hibs.

As for the non-sport topics, I think it's both informative and healthy that different political views are represented. You're pretty lucid in your anti-SNP posts, but outwith that you contribute nothing.

So is your sole objective on here to try to influence how .netters vote?

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

You can ignore me if you want or just continue to avoid the question.

This is a forum for Hibs supporters or those of other clubs to talk about Hibs and all things football.

I've yet to see a single post that suggests your in any way interested in football, let alone Hibs.

As for the non-sport topics, I think it's both informative and healthy that different political views are represented. You're pretty lucid in your anti-SNP posts, but outwith that you contribute nothing.

So is your sole objective on here to try to influence how .netters vote?

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Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bee0be2831.jpg

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D95auaPX...g&name=900x900

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Originally Posted by James310

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

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I don't know how I'll sleep tonight.

He still didn't answer my question either.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

There's a lot of racism, bigotry and intolerance in Scotland. It's nonsense to suggest that being born north of the border somehow renders people more multicultural.

The fact that people who openly admit that their default position is to dislike/hate "The English" are tolerated, even on this forum, in itself debunks the myth that we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

FWIW, I know loads of English people, none of whom are racist.

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To be fair, anecdotally, I'd say we have a bigger sectarian problem than England does and they have a bigger problem with racism than we do. That doesn't make us better or worse than the English (we're better for many other reasons :greengrin), just means we have different problems but a commonality that neither issue belongs in 2019.

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Originally Posted by James310

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

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To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

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Originally Posted by James310

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

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This is a community of like-minded football fans.

By not contributing to the discussions with the wider community it's not surprising some members of that community are expressing concern that your reason for being here is questionable.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

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I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

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Originally Posted by James310

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

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I was being genuine when I asked people to give their reasons for voting Tory. Naive maybe, but genuine.

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Originally Posted by James310

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

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Are you a Hibs fan?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Are you a Hibs fan?

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I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

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Originally Posted by James310

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

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All are welcome in the Hibs family. It isn't the Old Firm whereby fans are expected to subscribe to a set of political/religious beliefs in order to be accepted. Fundamentally we are football club, not a political party, and supporting the team is the only requirement. Being a Conservative doesn't make you any less a Hibby; your beliefs are your own business. Having said that, it shouldn't come as a shock that the majority seem to hold progressive/left of centre views, given Scotland's political landscape and Hibs' history of being Edinburgh's immigrant/anti-establishment club. Tories are pretty thin on the ground in the central belt, once you leave Ibrox.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

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In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

Oooooh! She's getting humpty now...

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Bit harsh, pal. Surely we welcome diversity, including diverse opinions?

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My apologies H&A, I do welcome all opinions, but the opinions proffered are *****.

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Originally Posted by James310

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

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In my subjective experience yes. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I support Rangers or Celtic, even after I've told them I'm a Hibby.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

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It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status...768502786?s=09

[emoji51] So bad it should be laughable

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Originally Posted by G B Young

He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

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If he’s guilty of any of the things he’s charged with he should and will end up in jail, not high office.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

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Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status...768502786?s=09

[emoji51] So bad it should be laughable

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He's obviously lying through his teeth too. His hobby is adultery.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

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Why do you keep using the term "nationalist"? Thanks to brexit, we're now all officially nationalists including yourself. Whether you're behind an independent Scotland, or Scotland remaining in a UK that is about to break off from Europe. You are backing a form of nationalism.

Also, there's a difference between what is and what should be. Once again, you're confusing reality with your own idealistic view of the world. Scots really are their own worst enemies. It's not a question of whether we should be or not. We quite simply are.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

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Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

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I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

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To settle the argument :wink:, It was the Act of Settlement 1701 that started the whole sectarian problem in the UK when it was decided that catholics were forever banned from ever sitting upon the English (and then British) throne. If only King Billy had it in him to sire a child it may never have happened :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1701

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

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Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

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It is crazy how nationalists switch from criticising their opponents for portraying the Scottish people as weak and malleable, then choose to describe the Scottish people as weak and malleable themselves.

The point about sectarianism was touched upon in other posts relating to racism. I think it is irrefutable that these fractures often arise, and this is the case around the world, when there is extensive immigration or the perception of extensive immigration by people who can be portrayed as ‘other’ or ‘different’.

Some people will automatically be threatened by that, which is tragic but doesn’t make it any less true. More sinisterly, some people will manipulate that fear to strengthen their own position or status. That happens at every level and isn’t some remote, dastardly plot by ‘London’., whatever that means.

As for sectarianism in the south of Ireland, the proportion of Protestants is so small that it is impossible to create a narrative around existential threat, it would be ludicrous. There’s a bunch of other factors but that is probably the biggest and crudest one.

I do agree with you to an extent in terms of Britain’s colonial history. Clear evidence of a policy and practice of ‘divide and conquer’ in far-flung lands. And of course that classic Yes Minister sketch about Britain’s role in Europe :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

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One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

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Originally Posted by Jack

One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

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The Russians, the US and the UK. But then, how can they compete with that?

Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

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Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us. :agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us. :agree:

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Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1143859270934511616?s=09

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/11...934511616?s=09

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How often have we seen that? They have a habit of scurrying off as soon as "scandal" is mentioned.

I'm still struggling to get my head around the UGOV poll of Conservative Party members. The Unionist party whose members will accept the break up of the Union for Brexit. The party which claims economic competence (nae laughing) willing to tank the economy for Brexit. And, most bizarrely of all, members of a party who are prepared to accept the destuction of the party they belong to, just as long as they get Brexit. These people are the only people who get to choose our next prime minister!

They have lost their minds and become a single issue cult. It's very like what's happened to U.S. Republicans with Trump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

I'm still struggling to get my head around the UGOV poll of Conservative Party members. The Unionist party whose members will accept the break up of the Union for Brexit. The party which claims economic competence (nae laughing) willing to tank the economy for Brexit. And, most bizarrely of all, members of a party who are prepared to accept the destuction of the party they belong to, just as long as they get Brexit. These people are the only people who get to choose our next prime minister!

They have lost their minds and become a single issue cult. It's very like what's happened to U.S. Republicans with Trump.

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Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

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How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

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Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

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Most people in Scotland believed enough in the Union 5 years ago to vote to stay in it.

Have there been big technological advances since then?

:dunno:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

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The constitution wasn’t the over riding issue then, people, including working class people , voted Tory for a variety of reasons. To suggest they were simply ill informed is ludicrous.
James Connolly left school in his very early teens yet went on to become a great political writer, no internet then. . There was a long tradition of self education amongst the working class all over the UK. Suggesting people were nowhere near as free thinking really is nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/11...934511616?s=09

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do we have a roll call (or rogues gallery) of who attended?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

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I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

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Originally Posted by Trapper

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

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:faf:

The EU has 3 tiers of Government. The first tier are voted in by the general public of each country. The 2nd and 3rd tiers are voted in by those we elect in the 1st tier.

The UK also has 3 tiers of Government. The people we elect, the unelected House of Lords, followed by an unelected Head of State.

:faf:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Most people in Scotland believed enough in the Union 5 years ago to vote to stay in it.

Have there been big technological advances since then?

:dunno:

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You make it sound like there wasn't a huge shift towards independence during that time? The status quo may have won, but it was considerably more uncomfortable than they were expecting it to be. It prompted hundreds of thousands of people across Scotland to question the narrative they were being fed. That's why they never want to offer Scotland another one. Despite all of the mass propaganda they threw at us, the momentum continued to shift towards independence. (That wouldn't have been the case had it been held in the 50s)

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Originally Posted by marinello59

The constitution wasn’t the over riding issue then, people, including working class people , voted Tory for a variety of reasons. To suggest they were simply ill informed is ludicrous.
James Connolly left school in his very early teens yet went on to become a great political writer, no internet then. . There was a long tradition of self education amongst the working class all over the UK. Suggesting people were nowhere near as free thinking really is nonsense.

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Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trapper

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

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Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

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If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

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Maybe the price was right?:dunno:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

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Is that how you attempt to mute any point you don't agree with? Not by countering it with anything of your own, but by comparing it to Trump? You've done it a few times now. You seem rather obsessed over someone you claim not to be too fond of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

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Brigade 77 work in mysterious ways :greengrin

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Is that how you attempt to mute any point you don't agree with? Not by countering it with anything of your own, but by comparing it to Trump? You've done it a few times now. You seem rather obsessed over someone you claim not to be too fond of.

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I wouldn't say I was obsessed. He is an interesting character though don't you think? He constantly denounces everything in the MSM as fake news. Then when challenged to back up some of his more outlandish statements he totally fails to do so despite claiming to have some unique insight that the establishment lacks. You gotta love him. :greengrin

Anyway your claim that prior to the internet that the population were ill informed just doesn't stack up. As you mentioned libraries were a wonderful resource. Are you dismissing political societies, the work down by trade unions to educate and motivate, the WEA. Pamphlets? Political journals etc . And lets not forget the education system itself in Scotland which until a generation or so ago was the envy of other countries.
There seems to be a trend now to dismiss absolutely everything in the so called MSM yet there is still a lot of fine investigative journalism and writing out there. Over the years there have been more than a few landmark documentaries and dramas that not only informed, they sparked action to be taken. I'll use 'Cathy come Home' as an example.
The internet has made getting information faster but if you think that prior to it's arrival the population as a whole were docilely accepting everything thrown at it as they were being kept in ignorance then I'll respectfully suggest you need to do a bit more research. You could do it on this new fangled internet thingy or how about visiting a library?:greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonty

do we have a roll call (or rogues gallery) of who attended?

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It will be somewhere, maybe Hansard or the Gov website? But it looks like there are more SNP MPs than all other parties put together from the photograph.

The proceedings are on Hansard, but it would take ages to go through it and get the names of those that spoke, and the sun is shining :wink:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...4D/Immigration

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

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You have to remember that Labour became the party of the people post WW2. I haven't looked at the timeline but prewar it was Liberal and Tories, the Labour Part first came to power in the 1920s, after the war Labour created the NHS and welfare state. What was not to like about Labour and the Tories had to reinvent themselves, like New Labour had to do under Blair

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I wouldn't say I was obsessed. He is an interesting character though don't you think? He constantly denounces everything in the MSM as fake news. Then when challenged to back up some of his more outlandish statements he totally fails to do so despite claiming to have some unique insight that the establishment lacks. You gotta love him. :greengrin

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Are you talking about Trunp or Fife Hibee here? :devil:

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

Are you talking about Trunp or Fife Hibee here? :devil:

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:faf: Glad it wasn't just me.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

You make it sound like there wasn't a huge shift towards independence during that time? The status quo may have won, but it was considerably more uncomfortable than they were expecting it to be. It prompted hundreds of thousands of people across Scotland to question the narrative they were being fed. That's why they never want to offer Scotland another one. Despite all of the mass propaganda they threw at us, the momentum continued to shift towards independence. (That wouldn't have been the case had it been held in the 50s)

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You were rejoicing that technological advances since the 1960s meant that Scotland didn't believe in the "Unionist nonsense" any more.

I merely pointed out that the last time Scotland was asked about it, 5 years ago, they did still believe in it.

I could have pointed out that the Tories vote in Scotland has been increasing recently too, but I didn't want to stress you out too much.

You make so much up that I think it's important to carry out the occasional Fife-Hibee fact check.

Happy to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

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:faf:

What are you slavering about?

The poor Scots were kept in the dark about politics and were denied access to books.

You forgot to mention that the bad Tories would rip out any pages that hinted that there might be another way.

What an absolute crock of imaginery, patronising crap.

Prior to the Conservatives winning in 1955, the Liberals dominated Scottish politics. However, we had red Clyde electing Labour MPs, communist MPs were elected, one in your own neck of the woods, and the Nationalist movement was starting to build.

The suggestion that Scots were too dim to know what choices there were is atrocious and you should be ashamed.

I expect, however, that instead of contrition, you'll double down on your insulting nonsense.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

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Precisely.

Or Boris.

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...eral-election/

I was one of the yes/leave voters.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

:faf:

The EU has 3 tiers of Government. The first tier are voted in by the general public of each country. The 2nd and 3rd tiers are voted in by those we elect in the 1st tier.

The UK also has 3 tiers of Government. The people we elect, the unelected House of Lords, followed by an unelected Head of State.

:faf:

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The House of Lords which I am totally against, is a body of people, not a single person wielding enormous power like Juncker and Tusk.

Our head of state I don't consider a tier of government, you'll probably argue differently though. Irrespective I am not, and never have been a fan of the EU, and the sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned.

I love the smileys btw :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trapper

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

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A yes voting Tory. Were you, Aye?

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

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I think he’s saying he was a Yes voting Tory. A rare breed indeed.

Or maybe he isn’t.

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

It is crazy how nationalists switch from criticising their opponents for portraying the Scottish people as weak and malleable, then choose to describe the Scottish people as weak and malleable themselves.

The point about sectarianism was touched upon in other posts relating to racism. I think it is irrefutable that these fractures often arise, and this is the case around the world, when there is extensive immigration or the perception of extensive immigration by people who can be portrayed as ‘other’ or ‘different’.

Some people will automatically be threatened by that, which is tragic but doesn’t make it any less true. More sinisterly, some people will manipulate that fear to strengthen their own position or status. That happens at every level and isn’t some remote, dastardly plot by ‘London’., whatever that means.

As for sectarianism in the south of Ireland, the proportion of Protestants is so small that it is impossible to create a narrative around existential threat, it would be ludicrous. There’s a bunch of other factors but that is probably the biggest and crudest one.

I do agree with you to an extent in terms of Britain’s colonial history. Clear evidence of a policy and practice of ‘divide and conquer’ in far-flung lands. And of course that classic Yes Minister sketch about Britain’s role in Europe :greengrin

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Scotland isn't just black and white, there's lots of grey in there too especially regarding our identity. We've fought wars because we identify ourselves differently. That's been a constant throughout our history and although the need to batter each other has subsided somewhat, the passion is still a dividing factor. Our identity is full of paradoxes like any other country that has an near 50/50 divide in opinion about who or what we really are. You see Scotland as an integral part of the UK that gets fair treatment from a parliament it helps elect, I think we're a second thought in the Westminster decision making process and could do better if Scotland had full control over it's own affairs.

London has used divide and conquer policy world wide for centuries and to assume that Scotland is somehow the exception is pretty naive but I don't think you really believe that yourself. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Trapper

The House of Lords which I am totally against, is a body of people, not a single person wielding enormous power like Juncker and Tusk.

Our head of state I don't consider a tier of government, you'll probably argue differently though. Irrespective I am not, and never have been a fan of the EU, and the sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned.

I love the smileys btw :thumbsup:

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Juncker and Tusk don't wield enormous power. They are influential, yes, but in reality they are constrained by the members of the European Council, ie. the heads of govt in the member states.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

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At the risk of being a stuck record, that was the Scottish Unionist party which had its roots in the 19th century Liberals and was distinctively Scottish (and Presbyterian and anti-Catholic as well which wasn't insignificant). It wasn't absorbed into the UK Conservative party until the 60s and their vote has been in decline practically ever since, with a slight upturn in recent years.

Their has been agitation of some sort for Scottish self government in one form or another since the formation of the Union. From the Jacobites* through the Radicals, the Liberal home rulers, Independent Labour home rulers, the Scots covenant of the 50s and eventually the rise of the SNP.

Independence might be the mainstream movement of Scottish self government now, but only because the UK has missed literally centuries of opportunities to create some sort of federal/confederal state that allowed us complete domestic self governance.


* primarily an uprising of dynastic loyalty to the Stewarts but used the promise of dissolving the Union to build support in Scotland.

Our Prime minister in waiting. [emoji35]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...aa4f08c48c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0f13ac2c93.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d1281ae441.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ce01024137.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Our Prime minister in waiting.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ce01024137.jpg

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:faf:

Somebody should tell Boris that we're fine with that. In fact, we'll just stop paying national insurance contributions and UK taxes in general. We'll stop paying our share towards servicing UK Government debt. Afterall, they won't be spending their borrowings on us anymore.

We'll just leave them to it.

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

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Though the Conservative Party has historically been ruthless with its leaders, in order to win elections, they have been fixated on Brexit for decades, and Hunt was a remainer, meaning he's a traitor to the hardcore. Bozo will win easily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

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36% think Boris has a "likable personality".

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

36% think Boris has a "likable personality".

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He has got a likeable personality. He plays the harmless bumbling fool to perfection. If he wasn’t a politician it would be quite plausible that the fact he is a lying racist ******* wouldn’t even have come to light. Politics has become more and more a popularity contest, it’s quite ironic that the leadership campaign is competing with love island for tv ratings. The difference between the two contests is that love island is voted on by fans who fantasise about sleeping with the winner and the Tory leadership election is voted on by people who probably have slept with the winner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

He has got a likeable personality. He plays the harmless bumbling fool to perfection. If he wasn’t a politician it would be quite plausible that the fact he is a lying racist ******* wouldn’t even have come to light. Politics has become more and more a popularity contest, it’s quite ironic that the leadership campaign is competing with love island for tv ratings. The difference between the two contests is that love island is voted on by fans who fantasise about sleeping with the winner and the Tory leadership election is voted on by people who probably have slept with the winner.

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Go Boris.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

Though the Conservative Party has historically been ruthless with its leaders, in order to win elections, they have been fixated on Brexit for decades, and Hunt was a remainer, meaning he's a traitor to the hardcore. Bozo will win easily.

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Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack

Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.

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He is that twisted he sleeps in a corkscrew bed !

If not already posted


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows



Conspiracy theorist think it is to deflect from the other bus, and it has worked if you google Boris bus, the more likely reason is a bus went past the window and there was a crate of wine in the corner of the room :greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

If not already posted


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows



Conspiracy theorist think it is to deflect from the other bus, and it has worked if you google Boris bus, the more likely reason is a bus went past the window and there was a crate of wine in the corner of the room :greengrin

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I wonder if he puts the £350m stickers on his model buses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack

Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.

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He's ruthlessly ambitious for sure. His calculation is always based upon what will advance his career and get him into Downing Street. Principle doesn't come into it.

https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/...63568935358464

We're doomed I tell you!

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/...63568935358464

We're doomed I tell you!

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No mention of this astonishing blunder in today's newspapers or any sign of it being repeated on Sky News or shown by or talked about on the BBC. Yet we've seen politicians on the left make more understandable blunders and they've been absolutely hounded by the media for days/weeks after. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

No mention of this astonishing blunder in today's newspapers or any sign of it being repeated on Sky News or shown by or talked about on the BBC. Yet we've seen politicians on the left make more understandable blunders and they've been absolutely hounded by the media for days/weeks after. :rolleyes:

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It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

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A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

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I'm fairly astonished he knew there was such a thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

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Tories are a shower of ****s who only care about rich people and would happily kick the poor daily.

WHO KNEW????????

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I'm fairly astonished he knew there was such a thing.

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It's worrying that he is aware of it. I'm sure he'll be looking to "correct" it when he gets the chance.