Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

The CVA has been approved. UBIG abstained.

The question now is not if the CVA will fail but whether UBIG will let the FOH have the shares for nowt. They may not be worth anything to anyone else (except maybe Bob Jamieson or similar) but they are worth something to FOH. UBIGs administrator has nothing to lose by demanding a couple of million for them.

---

Bizzare! That serves the Lithuanian taxpayer how??? Hearts are responsible for a £70million hole in the Lithuanian economy and the administrators at UBIG let them off for nothing :confused:

Well I hope they at least make them pay through the nose for the shares although that will inevitably be a paltry amount compared to what was actually paid for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basehibby

Bizzare! That serves the Lithuanian taxpayer how??? Hearts are responsible for a £70million hole in the Lithuanian economy and the administrators at UBIG let them off for nothing :confused:

Well I hope they at least make them pay through the nose for the shares although that will inevitably be a paltry amount compared to what was actually paid for them.

---

We don't know exactly why they abstained but it would appear they simply didn't have enough information to make a decision. They'd only been in charge for just over a week and probably haven't got a clue what Hearts is until now. They did ask for extra time but were convinced otherwise by BDO. There's every chance they'll take exception to their thieving once they have all the info.

The alternative to them being liquidated is just as appetising to me.

It'll lead to the catastrophic failure of their business later when they are inevitably relegated and the harsh business reality sets in.

Remember, they are never as likely to bring in as much money as they are just now and they are still struggling to sruvive.

They have a lot of money being thrown at them because they were on their deathbeds and they still have a lot of players and staff who took wage cuts and who are still not being paid what they should be. Couple that with large donations from fans and other clubs, an increase in season tickets that would not have happened under normal circumstances not to mention the inevitable cancelling of direct debits if results like today happen regularly.

Hearts fans may think their future is bright but to everyone else it's very difficult to see how it can be anything other than bleak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

this is will hurt them more financially. That horrible attendance is split which makes it worse and now they've lost all the income a cup run brings.

Hearts are 14 points adrift. I can't see them not being relegated unless Killie enter administration.

---

12 points actually, but who' s counting? :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim44

12 points actually, but who' s counting? :-)

---

Not me obviously :na na:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

Not me obviously :na na:

---

Thats cause you havent got a clue what your talkin aboot ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HibbyAndy

Thats cause you havent got a clue what your talkin aboot ;-)

---

In my defence, Hibs have never been on minus points so I've never had to do arithmetic that included a negative number before. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

In my defence, Hibs have never been on minus points so I've never had to do arithmetic that included a negative number before. :wink:

---

:greengrin

Hope for Killie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25158769

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim44

What idiots are going to buy shares in a white elephant just to make life difficult for FoH? This guy Jamieson is by all accounts a bit of an idiotic Walter Mitty character.

---

All the more reason for us to hope his bid is accepted :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eyrie

If I'm reading this thread correctly the Save Hearts In Trouble offer is £2.5m.

Of that money, the first chunk will go on paying BDO for their hard work in saving the Yams. The balance will then be split between UKIO in exchange for the security over the PBS and a small amount to UBIG for their shares?

But doesn't that mean that UBIG will be getting a preference over the other shareholders and creditors if they receive something? Is that preference legal? And what value can their shares have, now that the votes have taken place?

---

Like :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

We don't know exactly why they abstained but it would appear they simply didn't have enough information to make a decision. They'd only been in charge for just over a week and probably haven't got a clue what Hearts is until now. They did ask for extra time but were convinced otherwise by BDO. There's every chance they'll take exception to their thieving once they have all the info.

The alternative to them being liquidated is just as appetising to me.

It'll lead to the catastrophic failure of their business later when they are inevitably relegated and the harsh business reality sets in.

Remember, they are never as likely to bring in as much money as they are just now and they are still struggling to sruvive.

They have a lot of money being thrown at them because they were on their deathbeds and they still have a lot of players and staff who took wage cuts and who are still not being paid what they should be. Couple that with large donations from fans and other clubs, an increase in season tickets that would not have happened under normal circumstances not to mention the inevitable cancelling of direct debits if results like today happen regularly.

Hearts fans may think their future is bright but to everyone else it's very difficult to see how it can be anything other than bleak.

---

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0?

Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there?

As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0? Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there? As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.

---

I think in the last 4 games UTD have scored 4 in 3 and 5 in the other game,

Hopefully take heart from the score today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0?

Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there?

As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.

---

They won't win another game now until after they are officially relegated you could see the realisation on all the shocked drawn faces .They can't come back from this and neither should they Natural Justice will always prevail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basehibby

I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA :confused:

---

I think that it might come down to whether UKIO are the biggest creditors of UBIG. If UKIO believe that £2.5M (paid immediately)is the best they can get out of the situation then UBIG will be working in the best interest of their creditors by accepting £1 for the shares which allows the CVA.

If UBIG take say £250k for the shares from a third party then BDO have to liquidate and UKIO will have to get what they can, when they can for the sale of Tynecastle.

I'd be interested to see a list of UBIG's creditors to see who else is involved but I'm not sure if there is one?

I think the way things are going BDO are going to get the £2.5m leaving UKIO nowt!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack

I think the way things are going BDO are going to get the £2.5m leaving UKIO nowt!

---

I think that FOH have agreed to pay BDO fees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

I think that FOH have agreed to pay BDO fees.

---

But the fees keep rolling on. Where are they going to get that cash? The £2.5M will be slowly but surely ebbing away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamig

But the fees keep rolling on. Where are they going to get that cash? The £2.5M will be slowly but surely ebbing away.

---

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

---

Indeed. But it can't roll on for ever. The accumulated fees will surely get to a stage where the net cash UKIO are due is also slashed - assuming that the mounting fees mean that they (FOH) need to start eating into the £2.5M as their only way of paying BDO?

After a general browse around KB, I can't help feeling that the heads are beginning to go down. Friday's 'lift' seems to be levelling out and today's humiliation and the prospect of another thumping from D Utd next weekend has definitely dampened spirits. This surprises me as prior to today they have always displayed a brave and more often than not defiant, arrogant posture. A few more bad results, the limbo period of their CVA and the constant demand for cash sacrifices might break their resolve once and for all. As one who has always had reservations about the extent of their demise, my hopes are definitely being risen to a new level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamig

Indeed. But it can't roll on for ever. The accumulated fees will surely get to a stage where the net cash UKIO are due is also slashed - assuming that the mounting fees mean that they (FOH) need to start eating into the £2.5M as their only way of paying BDO?

---

I hope so. I'm also hopeful that the cash at the club runs low before they're out of admin too. Even if FOH have plenty from the pledges or money available from the loans I don't think that they'd be able to help because there is no guarantee that they come out of admin so they'd have to pay it back at some point.

Jackson also talked about selling season tickets early but I think that he'd have to make it clear to both fans and credit providers that there's no guarantee of all the games being played.

I think BDO might be really worried about this hence the "no christmas" chat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

---

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

I hope so. I'm also hopeful that the cash at the club runs low before they're out of admin too. Even if FOH have plenty from the pledges or money available from the loans I don't think that they'd be able to help because there is no guarantee that they come out of admin so they'd have to pay it back at some point.

Jackson also talked about selling season tickets early but I think that he'd have to make it clear to both fans and credit providers that there's no guarantee of all the games being played.

I think BDO might be really worried about this hence the "no christmas" chat.

---

if he so much as hinted at that being a possibility the SPFL would be all over him like a tramp on chips. If that was the case I would imagine he'd have the common sense to keep his trap shut. If the customers get shafted it's of little consequence in the grand scheme of things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brog

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

---

I saw it quoted somewhere I'm sure, I'll see if I can find a link.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brog

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

---

You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

if he so much as hinted at that being a possibility the SPFL would be all over him like a tramp on chips. If that was the case I would imagine he'd have the common sense to keep his trap shut. If the customers get shafted it's of little consequence in the grand scheme of things.

---

Surely it would be self evident that if a CVA hasn't been agreed and signed, and liquidation is the only other option then a season ticket for the next season is not very secure. I wouldn't imagine a credit card company would be too happy to pay for the tickets?

I posted this in the thread about their attendance but it has relevance in this thread as well as part of the larger conversation.

-


Attendances have been falling for a while but BDO have continued the old Hearts tradition of starting with the Season Tickets whether they attend or not and then adding walk ups etc. Walk ups have been in the hundreds for some matches I'm told.


The old method in the Romanov days would be to give a couple thousand tickets away to various schools etc to inflate the attendance. They would also all be counted regardless of whether they turned up or not.


They can't do that with cup matches because the gate is split so they need to be as accurate as possible. All-ticket matches such as this and the Wolfsburg game paint a much more honest picture of attendances at Hearts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aldo

I think in the last 4 games UTD have scored 4 in 3 and 5 in the other game,

Hopefully take heart from the score today.

---

you are just nitpicking. half those games were against very wee clubs. big clubs do not do those kind of scores against them:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bajillions

I posted this in the thread about their attendance but it has relevance in this thread as well as part of the larger conversation.

-


Attendances have been falling for a while but BDO have continued the old Hearts tradition of starting with the Season Tickets whether they attend or not and then adding walk ups etc. Walk ups have been in the hundreds for some matches I'm told.


The old method in the Romanov days would be to give a couple thousand tickets away to various schools etc to inflate the attendance. They would also all be counted regardless of whether they turned up or not.


They can't do that with cup matches because the gate is split so they need to be as accurate as possible. All-ticket matches such as this and the Wolfsburg game paint a much more honest picture of attendances at Hearts.

---

And todays result is only going to make attendances worse for hear7s.

Most jambos I know who actually go to games (not many) don't enjoy going and are only doing it out of a sense of duty. If/when they get relegated the numbers will take a dramatic plunge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

I think that it might come down to whether UKIO are the biggest creditors of UBIG. If UKIO believe that £2.5M (paid immediately)is the best they can get out of the situation then UBIG will be working in the best interest of their creditors by accepting £1 for the shares which allows the CVA.

If UBIG take say £250k for the shares from a third party then BDO have to liquidate and UKIO will have to get what they can, when they can for the sale of Tynecastle.

I'd be interested to see a list of UBIG's creditors to see who else is involved but I'm not sure if there is one?

---

Yes UkIo are biggest creditors of UBIG . If you read all the reports on Bloomberg from a financial journalist who is actually based in Lithuania then UKio lent the money to UBIG where Romanov and co the. Farmed it out to various "investment projects" and no doubt some went in to their own pockets. Hearts were one of these investment projects. Clearly as I have stated before the Lith government are not blaming Hearts but Romanov and co for blowing £70 million. The Hearts being liquidation by Ukio/UBIG story is over although liquidation may eventually come under the new ownership structure. hearts have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting money from fans. Their finances will only worsen as relegation and dwindling attendances see a sharp reduction in income. Hearts will go from one financial crisis to another over the next two years. Is a slow death better to watch than a quick execution . If you wait long enough by the river you'll see the bodies of your enemies float by!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by desantos0773

Yes UkIo are biggest creditors of UBIG . If you read all the reports on Bloomberg from a financial journalist who is actually based in Lithuania then UKio lent the money to UBIG where Romanov and co the. Farmed it out to various "investment projects" and no doubt some went in to their own pockets. Hearts were one of these investment projects. Clearly as I have stated before the Lith government are not blaming Hearts but Romanov and co for blowing £70 million. The Hearts being liquidation by Ukio/UBIG story is over although liquidation may eventually come under the new ownership structure. hearts have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting money from fans. Their finances will only worsen as relegation and dwindling attendances see a sharp reduction in income. Hearts will go from one financial crisis to another over the next two years. Is a slow death better to watch than a quick execution . If you wait long enough by the river you'll see the bodies of your enemies float by!

---

the thought of jambo bodies floating down the river like there club nice thought
I came on here asking where Sergey was,at no point was i having a go at him,i just wanted some of his input as to his thoughts on how the vote went regarding the CVA,i have found his views worth reading and the fact that he was insistant on the fact that the shares are frozen and hopefully will be hidden deep in the tundra somewhere for a long time,on keekback last night itwas a joy to read the in house fighting and feel things will implode big time in the next couple of months,running out of money,stuck in limbo for a while,after the lows on Friday i feel things are changing for the better from our point of view,and hope for a slow and painfull death for the club with no shame.
Now lets put the boot in when we play them at New Year.