SNP are lying b******s as well !

I received an email this morning informing me that my son's nursery will be closing on 31st July. A lot of the places at the nursery are subsidised by the council because of the area it is in. The nursery have been informed by the council that due to budget cuts said funding will be cut by 80%, even with a huge hike in parental fees it's just no longer viable so they are closing the doors. That's on top of the local library recently cutting it's hours significantly and a local youth group having their funding cut completely and announcing they will be closing at the end of the current school term.

I suppose that's the reality of ill thought out council tax freezes. You now have people on low incomes having their subsidised childcare pulled from under them and scrambling about trying to find spaces in the very limited alternative options. An extra £50 annually in your pocket thanks to the freeze but adding hundreds to your childcare bill doesn't really seem such a good deal does it? It's not a huge issue for me as my fees weren't subsidised anyway but it's a huge hit for those who can least afford it.

As I said way back when it was announced; a council tax freeze disproportionately impacts the worst off and is of most benefit to the already wealthy. The whole thing needs a radical overhaul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I received an email this morning informing me that my son's nursery will be closing on 31st July. A lot of the places at the nursery are subsidised by the council because of the area it is in. The nursery have been informed by the council that due to budget cuts said funding will be cut by 80%, even with a huge hike in parental fees it's just no longer viable so they are closing the doors. That's on top of the local library recently cutting it's hours significantly and a local youth group having their funding cut completely and announcing they will be closing at the end of the current school term.

I suppose that's the reality of ill thought out council tax freezes. You now have people on low incomes having their subsidised childcare pulled from under them and scrambling about trying to find spaces in the very limited alternative options. An extra £50 annually in your pocket thanks to the freeze but adding hundreds to your childcare bill doesn't really seem such a good deal does it? It's not a huge issue for me as my fees weren't subsidised anyway but it's a huge hit for those who can least afford it.

As I said way back when it was announced; a council tax freeze disproportionately impacts the worst off and is of most benefit to the already wealthy. The whole thing needs a radical overhaul.

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How come council tax is considered not progressive and also cutting it is also not progressive?
The SG replaced the money lost by the councils on the freeze and did it by taxing higher earners more in income tax.
Usually when people advocate getting rid of council tax because it’s not progressive they favour replacing it with Income tax?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

How come council tax is considered not progressive and also cutting it is also not progressive?
The SG replaced the money lost by the councils on the freeze and did it by taxing higher earners more in income tax.
Usually when people advocate getting rid of council tax because it’s not progressive they favour replacing it with Income tax?


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It's not fully costed in real terms every council needs to chose its cuts and the ones that said they wanted to raise council tax were threatened by scot gov with being cut completely.


https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-budget-will-cause-cuts-in-every-community
Robison said the government was offering an additional £140m to councils to implement the freeze, the equivalent of a five per cent increase to the local tax.

But some had reportedly been considering an increase of up to ten per cent.

Cosla estimates councils are facing a revenue shortfall of £95m in 2024-25, not including the cost of a council tax freeze, and a capital shortfall of £99.5m.

It said fully funding the freeze could cost up to £300m, more than double what has been provided by ministers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

How come council tax is considered not progressive and also cutting it is also not progressive?
The SG replaced the money lost by the councils on the freeze and did it by taxing higher earners more in income tax.
Usually when people advocate getting rid of council tax because it’s not progressive they favour replacing it with Income tax?


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That read suspiciously like trying to circumvent the realities of the situation when it comes to council funding.

Services are on their knees and completely underfunded and the additonal central funding comes nowhere close to meeting those needs because it's a bribe that was nowhere close to 'fully funded'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

That read suspiciously like trying to circumvent the realities of the situation when it comes to council funding.

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I’m not. I think councils should be fully autonomous from the SG and think they should be responsible for raising their own funding as well, with whatever tax structure they see fit. The constant arguments with cosla are a waste of time politically and economically.


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Forbes deputy first minister.

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Originally Posted by SteveHFC

Forbes deputy first minister.

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Good start. [emoji106]


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Originally Posted by SteveHFC

Forbes deputy first minister.

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Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

Was obvious he would give her the gig to not stand. I think she would have won with members but not SNP msps in forming a government. Let's see how the greens take it hopefully it means an end to a formal coalition and they can go policy by policy.

Great read from Robin Mcalpine about the final days of Yousaf, the much publicised deal he tried to do with Alba and Sturgeons interventions.

https://robinmcalpine.org/two-portraits-of-a-fall/

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Good start. [emoji106]


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The start was installing Swinney as yet another continuity candidate. The party before country manouveres we are seeing here doesn’t really qualify as a good start, the people responsible for the last twelve months of dysfunctional Government are still in charge.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Good start. [emoji106]


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Genuine question: why? Sell her to me, as a political nomad and atheist.

As a first action, Swinney could do worse than reverse the ridiculous Council Tax freeze of his predecessor.

Personally I think that was a stupid decision, and I say that as someone that voted SNP in the last elections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

As a first action, Swinney could do worse than reverse the ridiculous Council Tax freeze of his predecessor.

Personally I think that was a stupid decision, and I say that as someone that voted SNP in the last elections.

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I'd doubt Sturgeon would let him do that she didn't let Humza?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Genuine question: why? Sell her to me, as a political nomad and atheist.

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Personally as someone that wants independence she brings a chance of independence. The current 5 years of culture wars mince has brought independence as far away as I can remember. Swinney won't change that to be fair we've probably 2 years a crap Scottish election then a rebuild.

There is probably 90% of yes or no voters that are not going to move. SNP has ignored the middle where that should have been the focus. Most of that middle say they will vote for Starmers Labour at the GE so that shows what kind of policy won.

After all these years of the tories and Starmer for the next 5 all I care about is getting independence, that should be the number 1st,2nd and 3rd focus. If going to the centre gets independence do it we will have a lifetime to make a fairer Scotland without the fear of the Westminster tories having any power over us

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Personally as someone that wants independence she brings a chance of independence. The current 5 years of culture wars mince has brought independence as far away as I can remember. Swinney won't change that to be fair we've probably 2 years a crap Scottish election then a rebuild.

There is probably 90% of yes or no voters that are not going to move. SNP has ignored the middle where that should have been the focus. Most of that middle say they will vote for Starmers Labour at the GE so that shows what kind of policy won.

After all these years of the tories and Starmer for the next 5 all I care about is getting independence, that should be the number 1st,2nd and 3rd focus. If going to the centre gets independence do it we will have a lifetime to make a fairer Scotland without the fear of the Westminster tories having any power over us

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Completely agree, Swinney will now be in place until, at the very least, the Scottish elections. Those elections could of been used as a plebiscite at a push with, as Robin McCalpine mentions, every decision made correctly and on point. I reckon once a date is decided and a proper campaign is started there's mid 60's % for Independence if not more. That chance is gone now and we're looking at around 10 years. That'll be 10 years of theft and extraction of Scotland and its resources. Gawd I'm sounding like an Alba supporter now, this aint healthy.

New cabinet announced no greens obviously. Lot of chatter as they have dropped having a minister for independence. Not a big deal I think they all should be pushing independence anyway

Not pop at the SNP but at the Greens, I thought Patrick Harvie’s attack on Kate Forbes was very disrespectful

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Not pop at the SNP but at the Greens, I thought Patrick Harvie’s attack on Kate Forbes was very disrespectful

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Let him crack on. It’s helping bring SNP back together.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Not pop at the SNP but at the Greens, I thought Patrick Harvie’s attack on Kate Forbes was very disrespectful

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It was embarrassing, Ross Greer has been at it too.

I’m absolutely sick of people behaving like this just because you don’t agree with them. This current Green Party are all just weird people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a government.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

It was embarrassing, Ross Greer has been at it too.

I’m absolutely sick of people behaving like this just because you don’t agree with them. This current Green Party are all just weird people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a government.

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Ross Greer is an odious individual with puss I would not get tired punching 🤣🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Ross Greer is an odious individual with puss I would not get tired punching ������

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And Harvie is the definition of a wee sh*te.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

It was embarrassing, Ross Greer has been at it too.

I’m absolutely sick of people behaving like this just because you don’t agree with them. This current Green Party are all just weird people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a government.

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I’ve said this too. I wish the current greens could be forced to relinquish the name so we could have an actual Green Party who focused on pro environmental polices without being complete nut cases instead of these culture war students who never grew up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

It was embarrassing, Ross Greer has been at it too.

I’m absolutely sick of people behaving like this just because you don’t agree with them. This current Green Party are all just weird people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a government.

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Yet it took nearly three years for our Government to recognise that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

It was embarrassing, Ross Greer has been at it too.

I’m absolutely sick of people behaving like this just because you don’t agree with them. This current Green Party are all just weird people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a government.

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Don't tar every green with the same brush. I have Mark Ruskell as a regional MSP, met him a few times and I doubt if he has any extreme views.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Don't tar every green with the same brush. I have Mark Ruskell as a regional MSP, met him a few times and I doubt if he has any extreme views.

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Thought you were a Green Party member?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Thought you were a Green Party member?

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Have been in the past. Met Mark Ruskell while out campaigning for the Greens in Dunkeld and pitlochry in Perthshire North. Good guy but less enamoured with the way of campaigning by the local branch, choosing to knock doors in areas I don't think that would be typical green voters. But that's a different story.

My point remains, not every green MSP or councillor shares the opinion of Harvey, slater or Greer.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...eform-32777370

A welcome change in direction from Swinney. Making it clear early on that all talk of gender reform is off the table. I doubt it will be back until people are willing to be more grown up about it and that could be a very long time.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...eform-32777370

A welcome change in direction from Swinney. Making it clear early on that all talk of gender reform is off the table. I doubt it will be back until people are willing to be more grown up about it and that could be a very long time.


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As I said in my post on another thread, it will be back once society has come to a consensus. Politicians don't decide these things, society does. All politicians do is pass legislation once there is no political downside to doing so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As I said in my post on another thread, it will be back once society has come to a consensus. Politicians don't decide these things, society does. All politicians do is pass legislation once there is no political downside to doing so.

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Agree.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...eform-32777370

A welcome change in direction from Swinney. Making it clear early on that all talk of gender reform is off the table. I doubt it will be back until people are willing to be more grown up about it and that could be a very long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I agree …grown up conversation ..not children

Good advert!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNLMPquW...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by grunt

Good advert!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNLMPquW...pg&name=medium

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Who on earth is that ad aimed at? Tory voters who were thinking of switching to SNP but won't, now that they know what the SNP stands for? :confused:

Whoops, I thought that was an SNP produced ad. Geez… all our major parties have lost the plot right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Who on earth is that ad aimed at? Tory voters who were thinking of switching to SNP but won't, now that they know what the SNP stands for? :confused:

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Tory voters aren't switching same as half of snp voters. As the polls have showed the voters that were previously going to vote SNP are all saying they are going to vote for Starmer’s Labour and its a huge number. I think most were lost on the direction SNP were going.

In all the polls yes voters is a much bigger figure than SNP voters. This shows the yes voters who are indicating they will vote Labour that the SNP are changing path, very clever imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As I said in my post on another thread, it will be back once society has come to a consensus. Politicians don't decide these things, society does. All politicians do is pass legislation once there is no political downside to doing so.

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I disagree there is no comparison to the gay rights battle. Trans have all the same rights that were won in hard fought battles, marriage, adoption, prosecution against those who offend you. The difference is although society is happy to give trans every right they want they say that must not come at the price of hard fought female rights, its a no sum game.

We'd love trans women to be able to go to any area they want unfortunately that would mean women have to share prisons, rape centres ect with biological males. Unfortunately whilst males commit almost all sexual crimes then tough we must have access to female spaces. It pretty much took down Sturgeon I'm sure there focus groups will be telling them don't be so ridiculous again. The passage of time won't change biology I'm afraid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I disagree there is no comparison to the gay rights battle. Trans have all the same rights that were won in hard fought battles, marriage, adoption, prosecution against those who offend you. The difference is although society is happy to give trans every right they want they say that must not come at the price of hard fought female rights, its a no sum game.

We'd love trans women to be able to go to any area they want unfortunately that would mean women have to share prisons, rape centres ect with biological males. Unfortunately whilst males commit almost all sexual crimes then tough we must have access to female spaces. It pretty much took down Sturgeon I'm sure there focus groups will be telling them don't be so ridiculous again. The passage of time won't change biology I'm afraid

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.... to be revisited in a generation's time. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

In all the polls yes voters is a much bigger figure than SNP voters. This shows the yes voters who are indicating they will vote Labour that the SNP are changing path, very clever imo

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I don't get it. :confused: You do realise it's an ad for the Tories ...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

I don't get it. :confused: You do realise it's an ad for the Tories ...?

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Ha no didn't notice the bottom right but I hope they keep running it it's spot on, it didn't compute that they would run it. I've never got Ross's attack that Humza or whoever is constantly caring about separatism, isn't that the point. Bizarre if a tory advert who are they aiming at

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

.... to be revisited in a generation's time. :greengrin

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Darwin says longer than that

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

This thread could apply to coverage of the SG by the Scottish media.
Ask a Scottish parent what their school is like and they will say it’s great. Ask them about education and they will say it’s terrible.
Health service is the same. My son cut his hand on Tuesday night and severed a tendon. Went to the hospital, got him all patched up within two hours and was sent home with an appointment for 8am the next day for an operation to fix him properly. Service was outstanding from beginning to end. He was home by mid afternoon and it booked in for physio for next couple of months.
Read the media though and it’s a terrible service.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Service was outstanding from beginning to end.

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Good to hear it. Hope the lad's hand heals quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

This thread could apply to coverage of the SG by the Scottish media.
Ask a Scottish parent what their school is like and they will say it’s great. Ask them about education and they will say it’s terrible.
Health service is the same. My son cut his hand on Tuesday night and severed a tendon. Went to the hospital, got him all patched up within two hours and was sent home with an appointment for 8am the next day for an operation to fix him properly. Service was outstanding from beginning to end. He was home by mid afternoon and it booked in for physio for next couple of months.
Read the media though and it’s a terrible service.

---

Think I've occasionally heard similar about Scottish education and health on UK media as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

This thread could apply to coverage of the SG by the Scottish media.
Ask a Scottish parent what their school is like and they will say it’s great. Ask them about education and they will say it’s terrible.
Health service is the same. My son cut his hand on Tuesday night and severed a tendon. Went to the hospital, got him all patched up within two hours and was sent home with an appointment for 8am the next day for an operation to fix him properly. Service was outstanding from beginning to end. He was home by mid afternoon and it booked in for physio for next couple of months.
Read the media though and it’s a terrible service.


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Hope he's alright. I adore the NHS the only problem for me is waiting lists for some things for my kids but they are down to covid not the government.

An aside but what a great thread again by JBM apart from here I rarely see him spoken about and it's a shame as he's fast becoming a national treasure imo. He destroys poor policy and government decisions for example in clear detail through graphs and data. He's got fantastic threads on twitter almost every time, he should compile it into a book

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Think I've occasionally heard similar about Scottish education and health on UK media as well.

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I don't think they have a leg to stand on when talking about health but our education has went from being in front to a year behind England on average, thanks in no small part to Swinney. Free education obviously counters that a bit but we need to ditch curriculum for excellence and match England soon

Being a cabbie, I do a lot of work from both hospitals and the punters I pick up have nothing but good things to say about the service.

My wife had a large ovarian cystic mass removed last year, from seeing the doctor, getting CT scans, meeting the surgeon it was all done in 12 weeks, we can't say enough good things about the service, still brilliant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I don't think they have a leg to stand on when talking about health but our education has went from being in front to a year behind England on average, thanks in no small part to Swinney. Free education obviously counters that a bit but we need to ditch curriculum for excellence and match England soon

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Here you are parroting another unionist attack on Scotland. Is it true? I have no idea, but my experience of the local schools has been nothing other than positive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Hope he's alright. I adore the NHS the only problem for me is waiting lists for some things for my kids but they are down to covid not the government.

An aside but what a great thread again by JBM apart from here I rarely see him spoken about and it's a shame as he's fast becoming a national treasure imo. He destroys poor policy and government decisions for example in clear detail through graphs and data. He's got fantastic threads on twitter almost every time, he should compile it into a book

---

Him and Ed Conway are a cut above.[emoji106]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Here you are parroting another unionist attack on Scotland. Is it true? I have no idea, but my experience of the local schools has been nothing other than positive.

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Why go with the first sentence before checking. PISA tests are a world standard. Scotland was ahead of England we went for the everyone is a winner curriculum for excellence and our education plummeted, just like everyone in the sector said it would. Swinney championed it and then said he'd investigate the collapse did nothing ****** up the highers got a vote of no confidence, then we fell further. I don't think anyone could dispute Swinney was the worse person in charge of the education brief in UK history?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-education-scotland-is-an-example-of-what-not-to-do/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Why go with the first sentence before checking. PISA tests are a world standard. Scotland was ahead of England we went for the everyone is a winner curriculum for excellence and our education plummeted, just like everyone in the sector said it would. Swinney championed it and then said he'd investigate the collapse did nothing ****** up the highers got a vote of no confidence, then we fell further. I don't think anyone could dispute Swinney was the worse person in charge of the education brief in UK history?

http://<b>https://www.spectator.co.u...not-to-do/</b>

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Devolved country decides not to prioritise PISA results above all else in the education of its young people.

Devolved country subsequently does not come top of a PISA league table.

Shock.

And proof that devolution does not work.

England has spent less on education and has come top of these tables. England and the UK are brilliant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Devolved country decides not to prioritise PISA results above all else in the education of its young people.

Devolved country subsequently does not come top of a PISA league table.

Shock.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Good advert!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNLMPquW...pg&name=medium

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It’s all they’ve got.

David Mundell is my MP and I get a leaflet through every few months and all it mentions is stopping the SNP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J-C

Being a cabbie, I do a lot of work from both hospitals and the punters I pick up have nothing but good things to say about the service.

My wife had a large ovarian cystic mass removed last year, from seeing the doctor, getting CT scans, meeting the surgeon it was all done in 12 weeks, we can't say enough good things about the service, still brilliant.

---

Hope she’s recovered J C

I have, fortunately, not had much use of the NHS but the experiences I have had have all been positive.

2 kids born, mum hip replacement, mother in law broken ankle, at all stages the experiences were positive.

A 10 hour wait for an ambulance for my wife’s grannie a couple of years ago is probably the only negative I’ve experienced, but it was a Saturday night in rural Lanarkshire so there’s some mitigation there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Devolved country decides not to prioritise PISA results above all else in the education of its young people.

Devolved country subsequently does not come top of a PISA league table.

Shock.

And proof that devolution does not work.

England has spent less on education and has come top of these tables. England and the UK are brilliant.

---

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Commission-on-School-Reform-OECD-response-August-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Hope she’s recovered J C

I have, fortunately, not had much use of the NHS but the experiences I have had have all been positive.

2 kids born, mum hip replacement, mother in law broken ankle, at all stages the experiences were positive.

A 10 hour wait for an ambulance for my wife’s grannie a couple of years ago is probably the only negative I’ve experienced, but it was a Saturday night in rural Lanarkshire so there’s some mitigation there.

---

All good thanks for asking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-conten...ugust-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

---

The laptops are well used? Both my kids have them and they use them for everything. All their homework is put on teams and they use it to ask teachers questions etc. I’m not sure how modern schools could operate without them to be honest?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The laptops are well used? Both my kids have them and they use them for everything. All their homework is put on teams and they use it to ask teachers questions etc. I’m not sure how modern schools could operate without them to be honest?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The idea was good but they failed to do it 4 years after they saying the would, Gilruth has said its now being scaled back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-conten...ugust-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

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It's not entirely clear here whether Mrs 2 7 most objected to the aims of the CFE or their implementation. Was she against it when it was announced (so, opposed to its aims) or did she turn against it if/when it was not implemented properly? Or both? :dunno:

She like many in the education agencies were against its aims before it was implemented. It was based on theory with no data and education is too important to take a punt on guess. Swinney said when it was clear standards were falling that there would be a review that was 4 years ago, it's fell much further. There is nothing wrong with trying something but it's insanity to not change when it's continually not working.

When Jack McConnell was FM p1-3 in Scotland ranked highest in the world

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

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Bizarre they didn't. Labour got it through by 1 vote Natalie Elphicke voted with Labour

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

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I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

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Good balanced reporting from The Daily Express there. No mention at all of why the 169 people who turned up and voted against the bill did so. Presumably quite a few of those were Tory MPs? :dunno:

Good word, toxic-ness. I wonder what was wrong with the previous word, toxicity?

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Bizarre they didn't. Labour got it through by 1 vote Natalie Elphicke voted with Labour

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For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

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Exactly, maybe Sunak was right, extremists the lorra them. :hilarious

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

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Did I say snp destroying the country ect, a bit tin foil hat. SNP and tories, mainly tories voted against. This would bring MPs in line with many other public jobs like teachers, childminders, police and doctors. It's for people arrested for the most violent or sexual offenses only. They would still get paid but its a protection measure as MPS have power and deal with constituents.

Not sure why anyone would be against it

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Did I say snp destroying the country ect,

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Not you, Sunak. Hamas and the SNP, like two completely similar things in a pod. The Daily Express happy to run with Sunak's inane SNP-bashing, and BH happy to run with The Daily Express.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

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Remember when the SNP regulariy took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Not you, Sunak. Hamas and the SNP, like two completely similar things in a pod. The Daily Express happy to run with Sunak's inane SNP-bashing, and BH happy to run with The Daily Express.

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Picked the quote of Facebook… no idea that it came from the Express, however is is factually incorrect

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Remember when the SNP regularly took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

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Don't remember the photo stunts, no, but not surprised. The HoC chamber is a farmyard, and SNP members do some braying.

You're being generous to The Express describing what it pumps out as 'reporting'. Political propaganda, more like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Remember when the SNP regulariy took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

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It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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I know it wasn’t whipped. That’s why I said unofficial pairing. Im trying not to be too cynical and going with MPs just not caring about this. :greengrin

I agree with the rest of your post..

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

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"Change the record" :greengrin Quite apt for DJ Pollution.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Don't remember the photo stunts, no, but not surprised. The HoC chamber is a farmyard, and SNP members do some braying.

You're being generous to The Express describing what it pumps out as 'reporting'. Political propaganda, more like.

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I’m in a caring sharing mood today. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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She wouldn't be barred as like doctors or childcare workers they would only be put on leave for serous violent or sexual crimes. Its about safeguarding people they come in contact with, its not about punishing people before a guilty verdict.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

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Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

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THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debat...3b.69.0#g104.1

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debat...3b.69.0#g104.1

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Telt! [emoji16]

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debat...3b.69.0#g104.1

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Then shame on all MPs that voted against it and those that did not attend to vote regardless of party

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Then shame on all MPs that voted against it and those that did not attend to vote regardless of party

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Tbh, there are many votes in Westminster where dozens don't turn up due to one thing or another so difficult to blame them. The 169 who voted against though are a different matter. Absolutely no conscience or morals in any of them

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Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

Tbh, there are many votes in Westminster where dozens don't turn up due to one thing or another so difficult to blame them. The 169 who voted against though are a different matter. Absolutely no conscience or morals in any of them

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A few above were defending voting against because they thought that was the SNP position. Anyone without an excuse that didn't vote is wrong imo, MPs should be treated like everyone else

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

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It’s not about the MP and his employment rights, it’s about the disenfranchisement of his constituents.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

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My main point wasn't about the bill, as others have said there's pro's and cons. My main point was that you wrongly singled out one party because of your unhealthy little hatefest for anything "NAT". As for my "love in" for the SNP, I suggest you read some of my posts on that matter, I'm far from loving the SNP.

Maybe you should take a wee break from this bitterness, maybe a wee weekend away in one of our neighbouring Independent Scandinavian countries, Denmark is apparently the happiest country in the world to live, maybe see if some of that happy juice will rub off on you, naw?

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

My main point wasn't about the bill, as others have said there's pro's and cons. My main point was that you wrongly singled out one party because of your unhealthy little hatefest for anything "NAT". As for my "love in" for the SNP, I suggest you read some of my posts on that matter, I'm far from loving the SNP.

Maybe you should take a wee break from this bitterness, maybe a wee weekend away in one of our neighbouring Independent Scandinavian countries, Denmark is apparently the happiest country in the world to live, maybe see if some of that happy juice will rub off on you, naw?

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Read the name of this thread …might help

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...ended-32819420

Another good bit of work by the SNP.


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Freezing council tax is a populist disaster especially as it isn't remotely costed, council cuts disproportionately harm those most in need. An awful policy that is the exact opposite of the wonderful Scottish child payment scheme

https://archive.ph/6xNoA

Scots councils making £400m of service cuts face new £780m budget black hole

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...ended-32819420

Another good bit of work by the SNP.


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This is good news, I worried it would go along with the Bute house agreement. Not only does it lower fares, it makes buying tickets much easier, no more worrying about what time trains you can return on.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

This is good news, I worried it would go along with the Bute house agreement. Not only does it lower fares, it makes buying tickets much easier, no more worrying about what time trains you can return on.

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Agreed.

Though if they're serious about meeting their climate change targets, they'd permanently scrap them and incentivise people to use the national railway system by bringing costs in line with many European nations, increasing the number of people using them and leaving their cars behind.

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Agreed.

Though if they're serious about meeting their climate change targets, they'd permanently scrap them and incentivise people to use the national railway system by bringing costs in line with many European nations, increasing the number of people using them and leaving their cars behind.

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SG has a fixed budget that can change at the whim of Westminster. They can’t offer permanent.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

SG has a fixed budget that can change at the whim of Westminster. They can’t offer permanent.


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The Government owns ScotRail don’t they? . The profits that used to go to shareholders etc can now be used to subsidise things like this surely? An increase in travellers should go some way towards funding it as well. If they can’t run the railways better than the private companies then what was the point in taking it back in to public ownership?
It’s not always Westminsters fault. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by marinello59

The Government owns ScotRail don’t they? . The profits that used to go to shareholders etc can now be used to subsidise things like this surely? An increase in travellers should go some way towards funding it as well. If they can’t run the railways better than the private companies then what was the point in taking it back in to public ownership?
It’s not always Westminsters fault. :greengrin

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Is it running at a profit? Wasn’t it subsidised even when owned privately?


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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...usive-32833468

The abuse aimed at the SNP seems to be disproportionate?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Is it running at a profit? Wasn’t it subsidised even when owned privately?


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Part of the income for the rail companies does come from subsidies, the rest comes from fares. It enables them to make a profit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...usive-32833468

The abuse aimed at the SNP seems to be disproportionate?


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461 reached the criminal threshold.

As far as I'm aware only 1 seems to have reached the courts.

The papers will be full of the other 460 soon!

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Part of the income for the rail companies does come from subsidies, the rest comes from fares. It enables them to make a profit.

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There is no profit then.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There is no profit then.


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If the Private companies are being run correctly they make a profit. As a publically owned company Scotrail , rather then making a profit for its shareholders, can instead offer benefits to its passengers, like off peak fares being available at all times. So, no, there would be no profit, that money is being used for the good of us all. Which I kinda like.

Or are you suggesting there was nothing to be gained by taking ScotRail in to public ownership?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

If the Private companies are being run correctly they make a profit. As a publically owned company Scotrail , rather then making a profit for its shareholders, can instead offer benefits to its passengers, like off peak fares being available at all times. So, no, there would be no profit, that money is being used for the good of us all. Which I kinda like.

Or are you suggesting there was nothing to be gained by taking ScotRail in to public ownership?

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If you have to increase the subsidy to do it then it is a decision that will need to be made.
You are assuming that the profit made by the private company is enough to cover this pricing policy? I have no idea if it does or not? Or is the subsidy of the railway having to cover part of it?
You seem to be saying this is a cost free idea without any evidence?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If you have to increase the subsidy to do it then it is a decision that will need to be made.
You are assuming that the profit made by the private company is enough to cover this pricing policy? I have no idea if it does or not? Or is the subsidy of the railway having to cover part of it?
You seem to be saying this is a cost free idea without any evidence?


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Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

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I wasn’t dismissing it as such. I’m in favour of the policy. I would be moving towards making it cheaper still and paying for it by charging drivers more.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

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I'm going to be pedantic but no government policy is permanent, the next government, likely to be labour led both side of the border, could very well reverse policy.