Housing

One thing you can always count on the UK govt to do with housing is to try re-inflate the bubble rather than actually fix the problem. The crash when it eventually comes will be mighty. In the mean time, we’ll all keep paying more and more of our income on housing.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...wn-generations

Now your going to inherit your parents debt.


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That is a minefield and not sure if it can be done unless the children are of legal age and can consent to such a thing.

My kids were two and less than one when I bought my current house, and only two years older when I remortgaged to fund home improvements. Thankfully it’s now paid off but no way I could have passed that on to them.

You'd guess they would have the option to cash in the mortgage or keep it going. It will never happen though, more bluster from the tories. There is going to be a bubble bursting in the next decade and the horrors that go with it

If you have life cover to go wit( it though then that should cover the mortgage. I know not everyone has life cover and I know some people might start with that but cancel it as a saving along the way. It is so thing that should be compulsory.

That said ,as each generation goes by the position gets harder. I recall old people at my work complaining when I was first getting property and essentially saying they felt for the youth of the day and how would they afford property.

Looking back though, I did struggle but it was worth it but nowhere near as tough as it is for my own children today. You essentially need two people, good stable income and sav8ngs behind you.

I bought my first flat with 100% mortgage on my own and with not a single penny of savings.

This is utterly crazy.

People now have two options: take out ridiculously large mortgages or pay ridiculously over-priced rents.

The actual issue is the spiralling house prices and yet that seems to be welcomed by so many people, which confuses the hell out of me.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

This is utterly crazy.

People now have two options: take out ridiculously large mortgages or pay ridiculously over-priced rents.

The actual issue is the spiralling house prices and yet that seems to be welcomed by so many people, which confuses the hell out of me.

:confused:

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The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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Sounds like yet another gimmick, just like benefits for bricks a few weeks ago. Produce a soundbite and announce before even discussing with lenders, housing associations, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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We seem to be hell bent on doing just about anything other than the one thing that would work.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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But that would mean favouring the have nots over the already haves. Never going to happen under this government.

My initial instinct is to think it will be nonsense as it's the telegraph. But I noticed an article yesterday on twitter, the amount of excess houses had risen alot in the last few decades they say

http://archive.today/Pxgd5

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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Try building new houses and you’ll see why the supply is so slow

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Try building new houses and you’ll see why the supply is so slow

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The increase in material costs are in excess of anything I have seen in nearly 30 years of working in procurement in the industry. Where once you would see annual increase of 5 or 6% on things, most rarely stuck. Now I've seen bricks going up in double digit increases about 4 times in the last year. Timber is around double the price it was a year or so back, Insulation has just gone up again from yesterday at around 40%, plasterboard has gone up around 25% in past couple of months alone. Every category is being similarly affected and lead times are stretched to ridiculous lengths.

That will have an impact on affordability of new builds.

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Originally Posted by degenerated

The increase in material costs are in excess of anything I have seen in nearly 30 years of working in procurement in the industry. Where once you would see annual increase of 5 or 6% on things, most rarely stuck. Now I've seen bricks going up in double digit increases about 4 times in the last year. Timber is around double the price it was a year or so back, Insulation has just gone up again from yesterday at around 40%, plasterboard has gone up around 25% in past couple of months alone. Every category is being similarly affected and lead times are stretched to ridiculous lengths.

That will have an impact on affordability of new builds.

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Something I've always wondered.
I live fairly near to the Strand housing development just off Fishwives Causeway and I'm amazed at how many houses they're managing to build on that site.

What roughly is the profit margin for housebuilders like Persimmon, Wimpey etc for newly built houses.

Without giving away any detailed sensitive info would you be in a position to give a ballpark about the total costs for buying the land, building the houses, then the final finishing touches like plastering, painting etc against the selling price.

GGTTH

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Originally Posted by Eaststand

Something I've always wondered.
I live fairly near to the Strand housing development just off Fishwives Causeway and I'm amazed at how many houses they're managing to build on that site.

What roughly is the profit margin for housebuilders like Persimmon, Wimpey etc for newly built houses.

Without giving away any detailed sensitive info would you be in a position to give a ballpark about the total costs for buying the land, building the jouses, then the final finishing touches like plastering, painting etc against the selling price.

GGTTH

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To be honest I wouldn't know, I'm in construction rather than housebuilding. Companies I've worked for have had big name housebuilding divisions but never really been party to that info. They generally tend to be incredibly profitable in comparison to the construction side of business as that's large vale/fairly low margin.

The model was always that construction delivered turnover and cash flow which funded housing, particularly land acquisitions, and the housing delivered the large profits and dividends for shareholders.

Ta for the reply.

As you'll know well, there's a lot of new builds going up in Edinburgh and the outskirts, and I've always been a bit curious about the big housebuilders costs v profits.

GGTTH

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Originally Posted by degenerated

To be honest I wouldn't know, I'm in construction rather than housebuilding. Companies I've worked for have had big name housebuilding divisions but never really been party to that info. They generally tend to be incredibly profitable in comparison to the construction side of business as that's large vale/fairly low margin.

The model was always that construction delivered turnover and cash flow which funded housing, particularly land acquisitions, and the housing delivered the large profits and dividends for shareholders.

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The big 6 house builder control the uk house building market. They deliberately slow the release of properties to maximise their profits. Small volume builders are a thing of the past.
The planning system does the rest. There is about £150k of planning costs in each new home.


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Originally Posted by Eaststand

Ta for the reply.

As you'll know well, there's a lot of new builds going up in Edinburgh and the outskirts, and I've always been a bit curious about the big housebuilders costs v profits.

GGTTH

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Scottish govt are trying to speed up housebuilding. Not enough for me but they are trying. I think we are building at a quicker rate than England are managing.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The big 6 house builder control the uk house building market. They deliberately slow the release of properties to maximise their profits. Small volume builders are a thing of the past.
The planning system does the rest. There is about £150k of planning costs in each new home.


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No idea where you are getting £150k.

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/planning-permission-cost/

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

No idea where you are getting £150k.

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cos...rmission-cost/

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Contributions to local infrastructure? :dunno:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

One thing you can always count on the UK govt to do with housing is to try re-inflate the bubble rather than actually fix the problem. The crash when it eventually comes will be mighty. In the mean time, we’ll all keep paying more and more of our income on housing.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...wn-generations

Now your going to inherit your parents debt.


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I work in housing and regen and this country hasn’t had a housing policy worthy of the name in 20 years.

Judging from the succession of nobodies Labour have been putting in a shadows, they don’t seem to think its worthy of their attention either. Despite having an expert in John Healey amongst their ranks!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.


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Everywhere you look in East Lothian there are recently built estates and new ones being built, increasing the population of some of the smaller towns by a huge %. Not sure if it’s quite the same elsewhere but surely an equally large problem is the Number of second homes, holiday homes, air b&b’s ext.

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

Everywhere you look in East Lothian there are recently built estates and new ones being built, increasing the population of some of the smaller towns by a huge %. Not sure if it’s quite the same elsewhere but surely an equally large problem is the Number of second homes, holiday homes, air b&b’s ext.

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Yes, and it means people living further and further out to work in the cities. Any city...

It means travelling longer and commuting longer. It means the towns don't have the infrastructure and road networks to support. Do the schools have places or the local GP? Can you get an NHS dentist?

The housing crisis in the country causes so many more problems than just putting a roof over someone's head at an affordable price.

I would love to see a proper study of the hidden issues

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Scottish govt are trying to speed up housebuilding. Not enough for me but they are trying. I think we are building at a quicker rate than England are managing.


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UK target is 300k a year. We do well if we deliver half that. Meanwhile the French build 400,000 a year.

Politicians are afraid of the old Nimbies impact on their vote. I’m afraid the young need to get organised and active - and maybe turn out to vote

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

No idea where you are getting £150k.

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cos...rmission-cost/

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Not sure where Ozzy is getting the £150k but I'm guessing the additional infrastructure big house builders have to implement or it's the estimated price to build each house.

As you'll know there's more to it than just the council planning costs, you've got architects and structural engineers if you can get one as they're cherry picking jobs at the moment because of the volume of work available. I just paid over £6k for all the warrants and permissions needed for an existing dormer extension and bifold doors, I was initially quoted £3k. The original quote (before lockdown) for the structural engineer alone ended up triple the cost and don't get me started on the price of Kingspan.

I wonder what would happen to the housing market in Edinburgh if we banned Airbnb. Its ridiculous how many there are in the city and its definitely contributing to the shortage in Edinburgh

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Originally Posted by SChibs

I wonder what would happen to the housing market in Edinburgh if we banned Airbnb. Its ridiculous how many there are in the city and its definitely contributing to the shortage in Edinburgh

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This 100%..... its a disgrace and needs regulation.
The owners also seem to think its OK to stick up lock boxes everywhere, more often than not on communally owned door entrances etc where they don't actually have legal right without permission from the other owners.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Not sure where Ozzy is getting the £150k but I'm guessing the additional infrastructure big house builders have to implement or it's the estimated price to build each house.

As you'll know there's more to it than just the council planning costs, you've got architects and structural engineers if you can get one as they're cherry picking jobs at the moment because of the volume of work available. I just paid over £6k for all the warrants and permissions needed for an existing dormer extension and bifold doors, I was initially quoted £3k. The original quote (before lockdown) for the structural engineer alone ended up triple the cost and don't get me started on the price of Kingspan.

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That’s about the difference in value of an empty field the size of an average plot between not having and then getting planning permission.


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Originally Posted by Colr

UK target is 300k a year. We do well if we deliver half that. Meanwhile the French build 400,000 a year.

Politicians are afraid of the old Nimbies impact on their vote. I’m afraid the young need to get organised and active - and maybe turn out to vote

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France has more than double the land mass of the Uk. It’s a bit easier for them without trashing there green spaces and removing agricultural land meaning even more reliance on imports.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The only solution is to build more houses. Everything else just feeds demand. It’s supply that needs to increase.

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I realise it's complete sacrilege but...

we need tens of thousands of decent quality Council Houses, for the many decent people that struggle to pay ever increasing mortgages or ridiculously high rents for sub-standard housing.

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Originally Posted by SChibs

I wonder what would happen to the housing market in Edinburgh if we banned Airbnb. Its ridiculous how many there are in the city and its definitely contributing to the shortage in Edinburgh

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Let property should definitely be a separate use class.

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

France has more than double the land mass of the Uk. It’s a bit easier for them without trashing there green spaces and removing agricultural land meaning even more reliance on imports.

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I don’t think you can argue that we’ve run out of space to build!

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Originally Posted by degenerated

The increase in material costs are in excess of anything I have seen in nearly 30 years of working in procurement in the industry. Where once you would see annual increase of 5 or 6% on things, most rarely stuck. Now I've seen bricks going up in double digit increases about 4 times in the last year. Timber is around double the price it was a year or so back, Insulation has just gone up again from yesterday at around 40%, plasterboard has gone up around 25% in past couple of months alone. Every category is being similarly affected and lead times are stretched to ridiculous lengths.

That will have an impact on affordability of new builds.

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Same here. We’ve seen about 8% overall this year. We’re expecting it to top out at 10-12% and stay there. It’s potentially stagflation terratory

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Originally Posted by Colr

I don’t think you can argue that we’ve run out of space to build!

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Yip. Scotland is the least densely populated country in Europe.


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Originally Posted by Colr

I don’t think you can argue that we’ve run out of space to build!

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No but I would argue that the central belt is loosing its green space at an alarming belt, and because of where the jobs are no one wants to live where we have an abundance of space.

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

No but I would argue that the central belt is loosing its green space at an alarming belt, and because of where the jobs are no one wants to live where we have an abundance of space.

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Jobs will follow infrastructure. Government can change where they want to invest. That’s why all the best paid jobs are in the south of England. That’s where all the infrastructure investment happens.
If the govt wanted to double the size of Inverness by improving its connectivity, investing in its attractiveness to business it could do that easily.


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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Try building new houses and you’ll see why the supply is so slow

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I agreed to buy an already started property in February 2021. I had a buyer for my house 1 day after putting it on the market. I move in on August 2nd. Slow doesn’t begin to describe the process

Went to look at a small 3 bed newbuild a few months back. It had went up £30k compared to the same house built less than a year ago in the same development. The mortgage would have been close to £1300 a month till the day I retired.

Just feel like I've missed the boat now with it all. My mate always jokes about spam valley, folk with the houses and cars for show but can't afford to go to the pub or do anything else. I take it rising interest rates could potentially cause a crash in years to come?

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I'm one that got on the property ladder at the end of the 1970s. Interest rates in double figures, and your mortgage was linked to your salary. 2.5x man's salary + the wives salary. Didn't matter my wife earned more.

How is it possible for people nowadays?

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I'm one that got on the property ladder at the end of the 1970s. Interest rates in double figures, and your mortgage was linked to your salary. 2.5x man's salary + the wives salary. Didn't matter my wife earned more.

How is it possible for people nowadays?

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Fek knows. This wage to house price graph is frightening.
Attachment 25993

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Fek knows. This wage to house price graph is frightening.
Attachment 25993

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It’s a giant bubble. It will burst eventually. Not sure when though. Govt will try prop it up for a good while yet. Could get like Japan in the 90’s.


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Originally Posted by Keith_M

I realise it's complete sacrilege but...

we need tens of thousands of decent quality Council Houses, for the many decent people that struggle to pay ever increasing mortgages or ridiculously high rents for sub-standard housing.

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:agree: It must be a nightmare for young couples looking to set up their first home. The lack of available decent housing pushes up not only house prices but also rent on the most modest of accommodation and thus putting it out of reach for many. Waiting on a council house is like waiting on dead man's boots. Our generation had it easy, we inherited many houses that were previously company supplied in mining and industrial communities where the industries had gone to the wall, of course that brought other problems with it but affordable housing availability wasn't one of them.

In Berlin there are similar problems and there was recently a referendum asking if the authorities should have the right to look at using compulsory government acquisition of property from multiple property owners to free up accommodation for those who need it.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I'm one that got on the property ladder at the end of the 1970s. Interest rates in double figures, and your mortgage was linked to your salary. 2.5x man's salary + the wives salary. Didn't matter my wife earned more.

How is it possible for people nowadays?

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It is almost impossible. I bought my first house late (7 years ago) but was fortunate enough to be able to buy without borrowing. Getting on the property ladder for young couples means committing to mortgages that mean they have little or no expendable income, how can a society strive when the population has little or no money available for anything other than essentials? If people can't afford things then recession is not far behind.

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Originally Posted by hibeesjoe

Went to look at a small 3 bed newbuild a few months back. It had went up £30k compared to the same house built less than a year ago in the same development. The mortgage would have been close to £1300 a month till the day I retired.

Just feel like I've missed the boat now with it all. My mate always jokes about spam valley, folk with the houses and cars for show but can't afford to go to the pub or do anything else. I take it rising interest rates could potentially cause a crash in years to come?

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Best value is to build your own. - if you can find a plot!

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I'm one that got on the property ladder at the end of the 1970s. Interest rates in double figures, and your mortgage was linked to your salary. 2.5x man's salary + the wives salary. Didn't matter my wife earned more.

How is it possible for people nowadays?

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I was a bit later but I bought my first flat in a nice bit of Glasgow with a 110% mortgage. Didn’t have a deposit!

The wife and i were lucky starting out, we used the help to buy scheme, this was 9 years ago, so only had to put down 5%, was still hard saving but cut back on loads and managed, hard when you have kids also but we wanted away from paying huge ampunts on rent, was a pain when you go to sell as you obviously give loads back but was totally worth it, selling then gave us the deposit for our current house. If these deals come up again id recommend them to first time buyers

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Originally Posted by Aldot1981

The wife and i were lucky starting out, we used the help to buy scheme, this was 9 years ago, so only had to put down 5%, was still hard saving but cut back on loads and managed, hard when you have kids also but we wanted away from paying huge ampunts on rent, was a pain when you go to sell as you obviously give loads back but was totally worth it, selling then gave us the deposit for our current house. If these deals come up again id recommend them to first time buyers

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To be fair, although you give loads back you still get back proportionality what you put in, don’t you?

Help to buy is (was?) a great scheme from what I’ve read about it.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

To be fair, although you give loads back you still get back proportionality what you put in, don’t you?

Help to buy is (was?) a great scheme from what I’ve read about it.

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Yeah we ended up scoring out of it, we had a lot of interest in our house so sold for more than the asking price, as i say help to buy was amazing for us, we had one kid at the time and paying more than double in rent than what our mortgage ended up being. We are also fortunate that we could save, not everyone has that luxury unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yip. Scotland is the least densely populated country in Europe.


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The trouble is, in at least my area, farmers are selling off fields in 1 acre sometimes 2 acre plots with outlining planning for 1 house on each. Fields which could see 60/70 maybe 80 social homes are being sold for 10 - 12 huge self builds.

An example here https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...b3a76f9aff44aa I think there's around 8 of those things built in 1 field and they're cropping up all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It’s a giant bubble. It will burst eventually. Not sure when though. Govt will try prop it up for a good while yet. Could get like Japan in the 90’s.


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We keep saying that. It’s worst in London and that hasn’t burst. It’s largely been driven by cheap money (including buy-to-let mortgages) but the prices are baked in now. In 2008, London prices didn’t much shift, just the supply of homes reduced (to 1/3).

The competitive land market also leads to prices getting pushed up.

I’d like to see supply increased through small new towns and villages (I’m not a huge fan of Prince Charles but his Poundbury scheme is not a bad model compared to the 60s versions and would, I think, be resisted less. Maybe the land should be nationalised so the costs can be kept down and more affordable homes provided.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

The trouble is, in at least my area, farmers are selling off fields in 1 acre sometimes 2 acre plots with outlining planning for 1 house on each. Fields which could see 60/70 maybe 80 social homes are being sold for 10 - 12 huge self builds.

An example here https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...b3a76f9aff44aa I think there's around 8 of those things built in 1 field and they're cropping up all over the place.

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£715k is presumably for the house not just the plot, yes?

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Originally Posted by Colr

£715k is presumably for the house not just the plot, yes?

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Yup, IIRC the plots started at £150k a few years ago then rose to £250k and then fell back to £175k.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yip. Scotland is the least densely populated country in Europe.


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Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Yup, IIRC the plots started at £150k a few years ago then rose to £250k and then fell back to £175k.

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I’d like to buy a plot but not to build that unimaginative guff on it.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Yup, IIRC the plots started at £150k a few years ago then rose to £250k and then fell back to £175k.

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To be fair, for that size of house with that amount of land thats actually not a bad price

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

The trouble is, in at least my area, farmers are selling off fields in 1 acre sometimes 2 acre plots with outlining planning for 1 house on each. Fields which could see 60/70 maybe 80 social homes are being sold for 10 - 12 huge self builds.

An example here https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...b3a76f9aff44aa I think there's around 8 of those things built in 1 field and they're cropping up all over the place.

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We have pretty small houses in this country compared to our neighbours. I don’t think that’s the problem.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0181f6fd16.jpg


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

We have pretty small houses in this country compared to our neighbours. I don’t think that’s the problem.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0181f6fd16.jpg


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Not saying it's the problem but it certainly aint helping. It'd be interesting to see those figures based on say the last 20 years of building, I'd guess we'd be up that list a bit. Post war council houses and old mining houses etc will be dragging that down a bit.

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Originally Posted by Colr

I’d like to buy a plot but not to build that unimaginative guff on it.

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I agree, the very first field sold out here around 25 - 30 years ago, it was actually on the news because the seller had gotten round planning by stating they were to be crofts. Every house was built with a shed to keep bantoms. Those plots were IIRC £35k for 1 acre and buyers were left to their own devices on the design, there's some serious monstrosities up there.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

I agree, the very first field sold out here around 25 - 30 years ago, it was actually on the news because the seller had gotten round planning by stating they were to be crofts. Every house was built with a shed to keep bantoms. Those plots were IIRC £35k for 1 acre and buyers were left to their own devices on the design, there's some serious monstrosities up there.

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I know a farmer who got permission to change to commercial use as a stepping stone to residential use. He built a big metal barn for use as an equestrian centre and now has 200+ houses in his old fields.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Not saying it's the problem but it certainly aint helping. It'd be interesting to see those figures based on say the last 20 years of building, I'd guess we'd be up that list a bit. Post war council houses and old mining houses etc will be dragging that down a bit.

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I actually think it’s getting worse. Our new builds are smaller than everywhere else.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yip. Scotland is the least densely populated country in Europe.


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We're actually the 14th least densely populated but so much of our land isnt suitable for building on. Such as mountains, protected forests, bogs etc

This is along the lines of what’s needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62034658

24k homes in wales that could be on the market to those looking to buy, not to mention the impact on smaller communities that having a ton of regularly empty houses has.

That 24k won’t include those who have used loopholes to avoid second home tax such as using a spouse or a company to buy the property.

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Originally Posted by Colr

UK target is 300k a year. We do well if we deliver half that. Meanwhile the French build 400,000 a year.

Politicians are afraid of the old Nimbies impact on their vote. I’m afraid the young need to get organised and active - and maybe turn out to vote

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Agree 100%, this is the ONLY thing that will solve it. There are a huge number of young voters now that outnumber the traditional Tory voters but the youth vote is simple non-existent. I’m not sure how to get them engaged really, I think I was fairly politically apathetic in my teens and early twenties, it wasn’t until I started realising the system wasn’t serving me well that I got pissed off enough to start voting. I would make it mandatory to vote and heavy fines if you refused.

In relation to housing, I missed out on a house in my early 20s, another person outbid me by less than 1k. A few months later the market exploded and buying a house became a distant pipe dream. The banks would say I couldn’t afford a 400 quid mortgage so I would have to go spend 500 on rent. It feels deliberate and targeted to this day, not that I would ever expect a favour from a bank. Although I did, along with everyone else, bail them all out not long afterwards to the tune of many billions.

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Originally Posted by SChibs

We're actually the 14th least densely populated but so much of our land isnt suitable for building on. Such as mountains, protected forests, bogs etc

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and you need jobs in the area to allow people to live in the least densely populated places…

pretty sure Easter Road/Leith Walk is the most densely populated area in Scotland now. Lots of student accommodation, young transient workforce compared to days gone by.

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Originally Posted by Colr

UK target is 300k a year.

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Stalinists :grr::panic:

https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status...xjzLpBB1djbQjw

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Originally Posted by Colr

https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status...xjzLpBB1djbQjw

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Thing with Japan is people can't complain about housing next to them, nimbys are a big problem in the uk. Has its downsides as green land gets blootered. But on the other hand it allows massive amount of house building so no crisis. We need new planning laws in the uk to allow massive house building, but no one wants it next to them.

Developers and environmentalists clash

https://www.ft.com/content/fc0d2e76-...2-03287a366e76

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Thing with Japan is people can't complain about housing next to them, nimbys are a big problem in the uk. Has its downsides as green land gets blootered. But on the other hand it allows massive amount of house building so no crisis. We need new planning laws in the uk to allow massive house building, but no one wants it next to them.

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One thing that might distort Japanese figures is that they rebuild every 40 or so years.

Feels like Edinburgh is managing to get a lot more houses built over the last few years? Hopefully that’s the case all over the central belt.[emoji1696]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Feels like Edinburgh is managing to get a lot more houses built over the last few years? Hopefully that’s the case all over the central belt.[emoji1696]


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We'll need them with the population expected to reach 1 million. Only thing I hope they keep on top of is the parks, schools, doctors ect. Some of these massive development look like they have token amenities and you'd need a car

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

We'll need them with the population expected to reach 1 million. Only thing I hope they keep on top of is the parks, schools, doctors ect. Some of these massive development look like they have token amenities and you'd need a car

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If the population is a million then the roads will be permanently like car parks

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Originally Posted by LewysGot2

If the population is a million then the roads will be permanently like car parks

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Which is why most advanced cities are trying to phase out car use.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Which is why most advanced cities are trying to phase out car use.


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Unfortunately for Edinburgh we don't have any underground capacity and everything will rely on buses meeting demand. The tram is a line, not a network. We are going to face some real challenges other major cities can manage differently

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Originally Posted by LewysGot2

Unfortunately for Edinburgh we don't have any underground capacity and everything will rely on buses meeting demand. The tram is a line, not a network. We are going to face some real challenges other major cities can manage differently

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We are not a major city yet. There is plenty we can do. Without cars our bus network would be a lot more efficient. And I’m sure tram building will be constant from now on. It will be a network eventually.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

We are not a major city yet. There is plenty we can do. Without cars our bus network would be a lot more efficient. And I’m sure tram building will be constant from now on. It will be a network eventually.


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The topography of Edinburgh brings challenges that mean a tram network is not going to be easy. Always wondered what has prevented us reviving the inner city rail network for an integrated transport system. My old boy went to work by train every day when he started work. All the stations from Morningside to Abbeyhill and Leith Walk to Blackford...and everything in between.

People should be encouraged to walk and cycle more, especially if they live in town. It's less than an hour across town

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

People should be encouraged to walk and cycle more, especially if they live in town. It's less than an hour across town

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Electric bikes are a game changer in this regard. You no longer need to be really fit to start commuting by bike. It just needs the council to ensure safe cycle routes.

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Originally Posted by Colr

Electric bikes are a game changer in this regard. You no longer need to be really fit to start commuting by bike. It just needs the council to ensure safe cycle routes.

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I was thinking that the other day when one went flying by me. Drug dealers seem to be early adopters with this tech.[emoji6][emoji23] Seriously though, the potential is huge.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I was thinking that the other day when one went flying by me. Drug dealers seem to be early adopters with this tech.[emoji6][emoji23] Seriously though, the potential is huge.


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Brompton’s come in an electric version and are easy to store but its cheaper to buy a normal one and fit a conversion kit.

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Originally Posted by Colr

Brompton’s come in an electric version and are easy to store but its cheaper to buy a normal one and fit a conversion kit.

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I did that to my ridgeback hybrid bike, very simple to do with the kit I got. Front wheel is easiest to convert but the most efficient is the mid-drive.

How much does it cost to convert a bike if yous don't mind me asking

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

How much does it cost to convert a bike if yous don't mind me asking

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Depends on the battery you want, I went for a large one to give me a decent range. Been from pitlochry to dunkeld and back on a circular route including some rough tracks. Approximately 35 miles on and off road. Still had a bit of charge when I got home. My kit was £450 from cyclotricity but there are some starting at £250

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Depends on the battery you want, I went for a large one to give me a decent range. Been from pitlochry to dunkeld and back on a circular route including some rough tracks. Approximately 35 miles on and off road. Still had a bit of charge when I got home. My kit was £450 from cyclotricity but there are some starting at £250

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That's brill thanks

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

That's brill thanks

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Be aware of the extra weight of the battery.

Obviously these bikes a pricey so we need to build infrastructure so people can secure them safely while at work or shopping etc while in town.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Obviously these bikes a pricey so we need to build infrastructure so people can secure them safely while at work or shopping etc while in town.


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You get folk with angle grinders nicking bikes off stands in London. This has led to a number of shop-unit bike storage facilities taking up vacant retail units.

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Originally Posted by Colr

You get folk with angle grinders nicking bikes off stands in London. This has led to a number of shop-unit bike storage facilities taking up vacant retail units.

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Yip. Office block should all have secure storage inside as well. Cheaper than a giant car park anyway.


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I cycle to work as often as I can however a few factors make it difficult it times, mostly the weather, the end time of some of my shifts, and the horrendous state of some of our roads.

Little potholes and patches of poor surface that are hardly noticeable in a car can be horrendous on a road bike and a near guaranteed puncture if you hit one at speed. Massive investment in cycle lanes is needed if we want folk to ditch cars.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yip. Office block should all have secure storage inside as well. Cheaper than a giant car park anyway.


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https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...uSi8&fs=e&s=cl


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Wondering if there's anybody looking to buy/sell around now or soon and what they are doing about it?

I'm a First Time Buyer who decided I'd start saving for a house in January 2020, I've now got 3 times my original target but still can't afford what I'm after due to the increases. Many are now predicting a crash but that'd need to outweigh the rise in mortgage rates to be helpful for buyers.

Apparently it could still take a long time to hit the market and over a year to reach the bottom before recovering, even 2-3 years.

New builds are going up all over the place but you're doing well to find anything under £200,000. There were 30sqm studio homes by leith links that was still about £150k. Put your keys on the table and the place is a mess.

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Originally Posted by KWJ

Wondering if there's anybody looking to buy/sell around now or soon and what they are doing about it?

I'm a First Time Buyer who decided I'd start saving for a house in January 2020, I've now got 3 times my original target but still can't afford what I'm after due to the increases. Many are now predicting a crash but that'd need to outweigh the rise in mortgage rates to be helpful for buyers.

Apparently it could still take a long time to hit the market and over a year to reach the bottom before recovering, even 2-3 years.

New builds are going up all over the place but you're doing well to find anything under £200,000. There were 30sqm studio homes by leith links that was still about £150k. Put your keys on the table and the place is a mess.

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Even if there is a crash Edinburgh and London are two places that never really seem to be effected by them, the boy upstairs from me is selling his house just now and has had 5 offers well over the asking price and is playing them all off against each other just now, his house will likely go for £60k over what I paid for mine 4 years ago

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

Even if there is a crash Edinburgh and London are two places that never really seem to be effected by them, the boy upstairs from me is selling his house just now and has had 5 offers well over the asking price and is playing them all off against each other just now, his house will likely go for £60k over what I paid for mine 4 years ago

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Edinburgh was very much effected in the 2008 crash. Prices of homes were dropping by 10/15% all over the city.

I don't think we will see anything like that this time, but will will plateau and potential drop a percentage or 2. If people are waiting on a huge crash in the Edinburgh market this time, I just don't see it happening.

I recently bought a home 2 miles from the City Centre and got it for £7,000 below home report value. Anyone paying massively over HR at this time may get a shock if they are planning to move in the next few years.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Edinburgh was very much effected in the 2008 crash. Prices of homes were dropping by 10/15% all over the city.

I don't think we will see anything like that this time, but will will plateau and potential drop a percentage or 2. If people are waiting on a huge crash in the Edinburgh market this time, I just don't see it happening.

I recently bought a home 2 miles from the City Centre and got it for £7,000 below home report value. Anyone paying massively over HR at this time may get a shock if they are planning to move in the next few years.

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Was that still above asking price? I notice most homes seem that I've viewed seem to be advertised 5 to 10k under the home report.

And congrats on the new home :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by KWJ

Was that still above asking price? I notice most homes seem that I've viewed seem to be advertised 5 to 10k under the home report.

And congrats on the new home :thumbsup:

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Almost every single home will be advertised at under the home report. Only ones who won't be will be ones that need an immediate sale or have been up for a long time, a lot of time they will shift onto a fixed price. I've bought a home for below fixed price previously, so dont be shy in putting in a cheeky bid.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/emergen...x=1666951914-1

Becomes law today. Medium to long term, this policy will fail and result in less houses being built. Short term, I have sympathy. If they leave it at 6 months (they won’t) then it will be a good thing.


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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Almost every single home will be advertised at under the home report. Only ones who won't be will be ones that need an immediate sale or have been up for a long time, a lot of time they will shift onto a fixed price. I've bought a home for below fixed price previously, so dont be shy in putting in a cheeky bid.

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Funnily enough I was looking in an estate agents window today and was struck by the number of fixed price deals. I suspect a mix of the time of the year and buyers nervousness about interest rate rises. Now if we only adopted long term fixed then there would be more stability.

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Originally Posted by archie

Funnily enough I was looking in an estate agents window today and was struck by the number of fixed price deals. I suspect a mix of the time of the year and buyers nervousness about interest rate rises. Now if we only adopted long term fixed then there would be more stability.

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I also noticed that (fixed prices) myself over the last two weeks. Properties coming on to the market at FP was virtually unheard of in recent times. I wonder if the vendor had already sold, then bought another property only for the original sale to fall through with the tightening and limited availability of mortgages post the "mini budget".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...box=1668514423

While it’s fun to have a pop at private landlords, it’s usually housing associations where the worst housing is found.


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While it’s fun to have a pop at private landlords, it’s usually housing associations where the worst housing is found.

I would agree to a point but there are some good ones. I work for one in Edinburgh and can state with absolute confidence that we are one of the best.

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