£7.2M Loss

[HoboHarry]

Good
I live in hope every day that that mob go bust in my lifetime, and this time stay bust.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good

There is that :greengrin:greengrin

[TT07]

Have you come on here for the 5 or 10 minutes argument?

This is not an argument

[Since452]

Wasn’t the Rangers number a £17 million loss for the last six months? It’s no wonder Scottish football is now a one horse race. The gap from Celtic to the rest in enormous; competition is impossible.

Rangers will go bust trying to catch Celtic. Hopefully this time it's for good.

[Ozyhibby]

Rangers will go bust trying to catch Celtic. Hopefully this time it's for good.

I’m not sure they have any external debt? I don’t think any banks will lend to them. The debt they have is mostly to shareholders who are unlikely to call it in?


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[matty_f]

They need those 10k extra seats or they will always be disadvantaged. And that’s going to need external investment. After that they could maybe slowly build something.
In my lifetime (54) Rangers period of success in the 90’s sticks out as a blip now. The rest of the time has been dominated by Celtic.
The only other thing that would help is a hard salary cap not based on turnover.


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Rangers posted a c£17m loss while Celtic posted c£45m profit.

Year on year the gap between Celtic and the rest is widening by a huge margin. It’s not a two horse race in Scotland, it’s a one horse one. Celtic get further in front with each passing year.

My hope is that the current Rangers support starts to drift - there’s already a generation coming through who have known nothing other than Celtic dominance who will see their club cutting back and get disenfranchised with it all and start walking away, which pulls them in closer to us instead of them pulling away with Celtic.

[One Day Soon]

To be fair, they are hitting the treble routinely unfortunately.


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They are and the orgasmic reaction from the pundits is ludicrous. They have a monopoly, monopolies control everything else. It's not an achievement, it's virtually inevitable.

[One Day Soon]

This is not an argument

Did you miss the earlier exchange? I think you'd better come in again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Rangers posted a c£17m loss while Celtic posted c£45m profit.

Year on year the gap between Celtic and the rest is widening by a huge margin. It’s not a two horse race in Scotland, it’s a one horse one. Celtic get further in front with each passing year.

My hope is that the current Rangers support starts to drift - there’s already a generation coming through who have known nothing other than Celtic dominance who will see their club cutting back and get disenfranchised with it all and start walking away, which pulls them in closer to us instead of them pulling away with Celtic.

Your last point is a good one. Anyone about 21 or so and younger now won’t remember a successful Rangers and that’s only going to get worse you’d have to think. It has to get boring at some point knowing you’ll win **** all but also knowing where you’re going to finish in the league each season before it starts and also knowing you’re highly likely to get skudded by your rivals each season in cup finals.

[Smartie]

Your last point is a good one. Anyone about 21 or so and younger now won’t remember a successful Rangers and that’s only going to get worse you’d have to think. It has to get boring at some point knowing you’ll win **** all but also knowing where you’re going to finish in the league each season before it starts and also knowing you’re highly likely to get skudded by your rivals each season in cup finals.

That's what I hope.

And without that arsecheek, is there really any need for the other one?

[McD]

I was wrong, mate. Rangers’s last annual report was a £17 million loss, so it was for the year, not six months. Still bad right enough, and there is currently a big cost cutting process at Ibrox, hence the redundancies and moving out the highest paid players. The financial gap between Rangers and Celtic is only growing.



Thanks mate. As you’ve said, it’s still a terrible loss even over a year, and the gap will keep on growing

[Hibernia&Alba]

I’m not sure they have any external debt? I don’t think any banks will lend to them. The debt they have is mostly to shareholders who are unlikely to call it in?


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Aye, ‘soft loans’ they call them. Major shareholders are plugging the gaps, in the hope of being re-paid one day. Commercial lenders got shafted in 2012.

[PHeffernan]

I’m not sure they have any external debt? I don’t think any banks will lend to them. The debt they have is mostly to shareholders who are unlikely to call it in?


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The Rangers must be running out of 'pals' to tap.
Many football supporters are delusional and have real issues with financial reality with regards to their clubs.
They can see it when assessing other clubs but not their own.
As regards Rangers it's obvious to me, an outsider, that they currently need to forget about challenging Celtic and get their financials sorted but predictably their supporters have doubled down on replacing the manager and most of the players despite the club announcing a loss for the year of 17 million quid.

For me their finances are an easy fix:
Firstly, they need to let players out of contract in 4 months leave. Unfortunately for them there are not many other than loans. The obvious one is the very good but ever injured Tom Lawrence who will be on a million quid a year. With him gone they save a million quid on a player that seldom plays.

Secondly, they sell most of their players of worth who have less than 16 months on their contracts, especially those whose wages outweigh their abilities.
The most obvious example is Ianis Hagi. Great name and hair but doesn't produce much for his wage. Another million saved in wages and 2.5 million in as a transfer fee.
The other obvious one is James Tavernier. At 33 his powers are waning. If they can shift him to Englandshire on a free they will save another million quid on wages.

Thirdly, they need to recruit young player of quality to develop and sell like Igamane who they bought for 2 million in the summer and who is now worth 4 times that already.
They also need to bring in young Scottish players of proven quality, especially those at the end of their contracts where they pay only training compensation as they have done with Barron and Cameron.

Fourthly, they need to stop paying premium transfer fees and more importantly wages for players. Bottom line is their wage bill must come down for at least the next two seasons.

In essense their solution is the same as Hibs. Both clubs began the necessary change last summer.
The tough bit for the Rangers is getting their supporters to accept their reality which is 2nd best team in Scotland for the forseeable future. David Murray all but killed them and financial prudence for a couple of seasons is the only way back to a sustainable future for them but their frothing masses are, as ever, revolting.

[Ozyhibby]

The Rangers must be running out of 'pals' to tap.
Football supporters have real issues with financial reality with regards to their clubs.
They can see it when assessing other clubs but not their own.
As regards Rangers it's obvious to me, an outsider, that they currently need to forget about challenging Celtic and get their financials sorted but predictably their supporters have doubled down on replacing the manager and most of the players despite the club announcing a loss for the year of 17 million quid.

For me their finances are an easy fix:
Firstly, they need to let players out of contract in 4 months leave. Unfortunately for them there are not many other than loans. The obvious one is the very good but ever injured Tom Lawrence who will be on a million quid a year. With him gone they save a million quid on a player that seldom plays.

Secondly, they sell most of their players of worth who have less than 16 months on their contracts, especially those whose wages outweigh their abilities.
The most obvious example is Ianis Hagi. Great name and hair but doesn't produce much for his wage. Another million saved in wages and 2.5 million in as a transfer fee.
The other obvious one is James Tavernier. At 33 his powers are waning. If they can shift him to Englandshire on a free they will save another million quid on wages.

Thirdly, they need to recruit young player of quality to develop and sell like Igamane who they bought for 2 million in the summer and who is now worth 4 times that already.
They also need to bring in young Scottish players of proven quality, especially those at the end of their contracts where they pay only training compensation as they have done with Barron and Cameron.

Fourthly, they need to stop paying premium transfer fees and wages for players. Bottom line is their wage bill must come down for at least the next two seasons.

In essense their solution is the same as Hibs. Both clubs began the necessary change last summer.
The tough bit for the Rangers is getting their supporters to accept their reality which is 2nd best team in Scotland for the forseeable future. David Murray all but killed them and financial prudence for a couple of seasons is the only way back to a sustainable future for them but their frothing masses are, as ever, revolting.

Nothing wrong in what you say but sustainability will never be enough for them. I think they would rather die than accept 2nd to Celtic.


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[7Hero]

The Rangers must be running out of 'pals' to tap.
Football supporters have real issues with financial reality with regards to their clubs.
They can see it when assessing other clubs but not their own.
As regards Rangers it's obvious to me, an outsider, that they currently need to forget about challenging Celtic and get their financials sorted but predictably their supporters have doubled down on replacing the manager and most of the players despite the club announcing a loss for the year of 17 million quid.

For me their finances are an easy fix:
Firstly, they need to let players out of contract in 4 months leave. Unfortunately for them there are not many other than loans. The obvious one is the very good but ever injured Tom Lawrence who will be on a million quid a year. With him gone they save a million quid on a player that seldom plays.

Secondly, they sell most of their players of worth who have less than 16 months on their contracts, especially those whose wages outweigh their abilities.
The most obvious example is Ianis Hagi. Great name and hair but doesn't produce much for his wage. Another million saved in wages and 2.5 million in as a transfer fee.
The other obvious one is James Tavernier. At 33 his powers are waning. If they can shift him to Englandshire on a free they will save another million quid on wages.

Thirdly, they need to recruit young player of quality to develop and sell like Igamane who they bought for 2 million in the summer and who is now worth 4 times that already.
They also need to bring in young Scottish players of proven quality, especially those at the end of their contracts where they pay only training compensation as they have done with Barron and Cameron.

Fourthly, they need to stop paying premium transfer fees and wages for players. Bottom line is their wage bill must come down for at least the next two seasons.

In essense their solution is the same as Hibs. Both clubs began the necessary change last summer.
The tough bit for the Rangers is getting their supporters to accept their reality which is 2nd best team in Scotland for the forseeable future. David Murray all but killed them and financial prudence for a couple of seasons is the only way back to a sustainable future for them but their frothing masses are, as ever, revolting.

Alternatively they could ask those frothing masses to put their money where their mouth is and pay double on their Season Tickets, would go a long way to help plugging the gap..

[Centre Hawf]

The Rangers must be running out of 'pals' to tap.
Many football supporters are delusional and have real issues with financial reality with regards to their clubs.
They can see it when assessing other clubs but not their own.
As regards Rangers it's obvious to me, an outsider, that they currently need to forget about challenging Celtic and get their financials sorted but predictably their supporters have doubled down on replacing the manager and most of the players despite the club announcing a loss for the year of 17 million quid.

For me their finances are an easy fix:
Firstly, they need to let players out of contract in 4 months leave. Unfortunately for them there are not many other than loans. The obvious one is the very good but ever injured Tom Lawrence who will be on a million quid a year. With him gone they save a million quid on a player that seldom plays.

Secondly, they sell most of their players of worth who have less than 16 months on their contracts, especially those whose wages outweigh their abilities.
The most obvious example is Ianis Hagi. Great name and hair but doesn't produce much for his wage. Another million saved in wages and 2.5 million in as a transfer fee.
The other obvious one is James Tavernier. At 33 his powers are waning. If they can shift him to Englandshire on a free they will save another million quid on wages.

Thirdly, they need to recruit young player of quality to develop and sell like Igamane who they bought for 2 million in the summer and who is now worth 4 times that already.
They also need to bring in young Scottish players of proven quality, especially those at the end of their contracts where they pay only training compensation as they have done with Barron and Cameron.

Fourthly, they need to stop paying premium transfer fees and more importantly wages for players. Bottom line is their wage bill must come down for at least the next two seasons.

In essense their solution is the same as Hibs. Both clubs began the necessary change last summer.
The tough bit for the Rangers is getting their supporters to accept their reality which is 2nd best team in Scotland for the forseeable future. David Murray all but killed them and financial prudence for a couple of seasons is the only way back to a sustainable future for them but their frothing masses are, as ever, revolting.

If that mob could somehow stop frothing at the mouth any time they fail to win a single game of football they'd be able to work out that any attempt to challenge Celtic can not be achieved in one window or season, but over the course of probably 3 to 5 seasons at best.

People mocked their business of Barron and Cameron but to be honest your point is spot on. They're cheaper than their European counter parts and count as homegrown squad depth and can allow them to spend a bit more focus on recruiting the next Igamane's etc to pocket £10/15m from £2/3m spends. Will these guys help close the gap on Celtic? Not really through their raw talent, but they'll be able to help the bigger picture rather than paying £1.5m plus double the wages for someone of equal talent from Mexico like they've tried before.

Thankfully for the rest of us they do go mental whenever they draw a game and as a result end up shifting guys they've spend stupid money on for peanuts because they've hounded everyone and their granny to death about it. Even a player like Dessers should be fairly well received by their fans for the amount he does actually score, but the guy probably couldn't walk into a Rangers supporters club without fear of being accosted by their fans.

A bizarre fanbase that deserve every bit of misery that comes their way. Just a shame that's to Celtics benefit mostly.

[PHeffernan]

Alternatively they could ask those frothing masses to put their money where their mouth is and pay double on their Season Tickets, would go a long way to help plugging the gap..

As much chance of that as getting our frothers to do the same.
To be fair, it's not a precedent we should want to see set i.e. a club spending more money than they have and then getting supporters to clean up the mess doesn't encourage fiscal responsibilty and common sense and eventually leads to a big and sometimes near fatal car crash.
It's shouldn't be hard for football clubs to live within their means.

The Gordons have had their fingers burn't on their alternative recruitment and contract strategy which failed miserably but are now back on the regular recruitment track for clubs of our size, as we saw in the summer. For that reason i'm not concerned about Hibs but for me The Rangers are going to have to pay the bill for Celtic chasing over the last decade. They've maxed out borrowing from all their rich friends and now it's time for austerity for a couple of years to get their spending under control and start paying their friends back.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Nothing wrong in what you say but sustainability will never be enough for them. I think they would rather die than accept 2nd to Celtic.


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You could be right there. They seem unable to face the reality of their situation and how much trouble they are in. Perhaps the board has now accepted the truth, hence Clement is still in a job after Sunday. They know there is no quick fix. The fans, however, are a different story, and it’s a huge problem. There is a disconnect between reality and expectations, creating an atmosphere of constant crisis. Basically they are demanding the impossible. It needs a long term strategy of innovation if they are to compete with Celtic. They don’t have the wealth to just throw money at it. However, the fans don’t have the patience for that. Celtic’s total dominance is killing them.

[Smartie]

As much chance of that as getting our frothers to do the same.
It's not a precedent I would like to see set i.e. the club spending more money than they have and then getting supporters to clean up the mess doesn't encourage fiscal responsibilty and common sense and eventually leads to a car crash.
It's shouldn't be hard for football clubs to live within their means.

It shouldn't.

But it appears that right now in Scotland we have an odd situation where Celtic appear to rolling in cash whilst every other club is being really pretty poorly run in an attempt to keep up with someone or other.

[McD]

The Rangers must be running out of 'pals' to tap.
Many football supporters are delusional and have real issues with financial reality with regards to their clubs.
They can see it when assessing other clubs but not their own.
As regards Rangers it's obvious to me, an outsider, that they currently need to forget about challenging Celtic and get their financials sorted but predictably their supporters have doubled down on replacing the manager and most of the players despite the club announcing a loss for the year of 17 million quid.

For me their finances are an easy fix:
Firstly, they need to let players out of contract in 4 months leave. Unfortunately for them there are not many other than loans. The obvious one is the very good but ever injured Tom Lawrence who will be on a million quid a year. With him gone they save a million quid on a player that seldom plays.

Secondly, they sell most of their players of worth who have less than 16 months on their contracts, especially those whose wages outweigh their abilities.
The most obvious example is Ianis Hagi. Great name and hair but doesn't produce much for his wage. Another million saved in wages and 2.5 million in as a transfer fee.
The other obvious one is James Tavernier. At 33 his powers are waning. If they can shift him to Englandshire on a free they will save another million quid on wages.

Thirdly, they need to recruit young player of quality to develop and sell like Igamane who they bought for 2 million in the summer and who is now worth 4 times that already.
They also need to bring in young Scottish players of proven quality, especially those at the end of their contracts where they pay only training compensation as they have done with Barron and Cameron.

Fourthly, they need to stop paying premium transfer fees and more importantly wages for players. Bottom line is their wage bill must come down for at least the next two seasons.

In essense their solution is the same as Hibs. Both clubs began the necessary change last summer.
The tough bit for the Rangers is getting their supporters to accept their reality which is 2nd best team in Scotland for the forseeable future. David Murray all but killed them and financial prudence for a couple of seasons is the only way back to a sustainable future for them but their frothing masses are, as ever, revolting.


All excellent points, that it’s highly unlikely Rangers will follow any of them


Hagi is also out of contract this summer, so they could save his wages but they’ll not get a fee for him (how sad :greengrin)

[Ronniekirk]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

[Since452]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

If it's any help at all Tam McManus doesn't have a clue.

[Centre Hawf]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

At the moment the reality is that the owners have committed to not labouring the club with excessive losses generated by poor decisions on their parts in regards to the football decisions. As bad as they've been in terms of their decisions, I have no real fear that they won't keep their word on that. Until they give us all reasons to actually doubt that then we're ultimately okay.

Tam McManus couldn't tell you his own arse from his elbow. He's merely writing nonsense takes that help his sad wee opinion pieces clicks on the internet. He has zero knowledge of what any of our accounts means and shouldn't be listened to when it comes to it.

January should be the only window we see where we've tightened the purse strings more than usual because overall we've been over committed to player expenditure that, thankfully, a lot ends in the summer, but despite that we've still signed 13 players this season. Not many of which I'd really call bargain basement either.

[Donegal Hibby]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

He also mentioned something about we know the reason behind the club not signing players in January even though it was said more than once we would only sign quality that improved us which was why we probably tried to sign Mathias Stilanen for a considerable fee . Think he saying what his employers want him to say .

[thebausburst]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

Malkys recent interview where he said prudent etc every 2 minutes imo suggests Tam is right and we are skint.

[Wilson]

Malkys recent interview where he said prudent etc every 2 minutes imo suggests Tam is right and we are skint.

It suggests we've generated losses at an unsustainable rate and that we've changed course. It doesn't suggest that no money will be made available for the right signings.

I expect quality over quantity which is what we're looking for.

Tam is a dough heid.

[PHeffernan]

All excellent points, that it’s highly unlikely Rangers will follow any of them


Hagi is also out of contract this summer, so they could save his wages but they’ll not get a fee for him (how sad :greengrin)

I always know all Hibs player contract expiry details but rely on Transfermarkt for other clubs players.
So no fee for Hagi then, but they won't have to pay him anymore. He's no very good.
They really are in an almighty financial mire.

[Centre Hawf]

Malkys recent interview where he said prudent etc every 2 minutes imo suggests Tam is right and we are skint.

I don't believe we're skint so to speak. We've maxed out our budget (and then some it seemed recently) but that should hopefully be about to correct itself for the most part when we part ways with majority of the overpaid duds we accumulated over time. Even guys like McKirdy, JDH, Amos all being released in January will have taken money out of our budget from now to the end of the season.

The summer should be a cleaner start for us a bit and allow us to do business still.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

This has come up before, and has yet to be clarified.

Hopefully, "someone" will get the Board to explain it before or at the AGM.

And, to echo most on here, don't rely on Tam McManus for financial advice.

[PHeffernan]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

I very strongly suspect David Gray will we shopping in the same transfer market as he was last summer.
That is good consistent professional players that are good EFL 3rd tier level e.g. N Cadden, Smith, Ekpiteta and O'Hora.
Probably a cheeky wee 700k Bowie type cherry on top signing if a good opportunity presents itself and a Triantes type loan signing possibly from Bournemouth
I think we will move away from 1 year auld guy stop gaps like Le Fondre, Gayle and Hoilett and we will see low cost additions to the first team squad in Megwa, Molotnikov and the MacIntyre brothers.
What we are getting away from is guys on 250k a year that struggle to get in the matchday squad and don't get a game.

We should also bring in 2.5 million this summer for Youan and Vente who both currently have less than 16 months left on their contracts so must be sold in the next window.

P.S. Tam McManus is writing populist drivel to elicit the clicks necessary to hang onto his slavering for money gigs which is fair enough. However, i'm almost 100% certain that he knows no more than folk on this forum about Hibs finances or the transfer markets that Hibs will be operating in this summer.

[Sergio sledge]

I don't believe we're skint so to speak. We've maxed out our budget (and then some it seemed recently) but that should hopefully be about to correct itself for the most part when we part ways with majority of the overpaid duds we accumulated over time. Even guys like McKirdy, JDH, Amos all being released in January will have taken money out of our budget from now to the end of the season.

The summer should be a cleaner start for us a bit and allow us to do business still.

:agree:

Even with some cutting of our cloth we'll still have a playing budget which is comfortably bigger than 2/3rds of the Premiership. We'll be a bit behind Hearts and Aberdeen, as we have been for a while, but as we have proven over the last few years, it's not always how much you have but what you do with it that counts.

We'll hardly be shopping in the bargain basement.

If we use the BKFG to it's full potential then we should be able to pick up better value signings than we have been doing.

[Since90+2]

:agree:

Even with some cutting of our cloth we'll still have a playing budget which is comfortably bigger than 2/3rds of the Premiership. We'll be a bit behind Hearts and Aberdeen, as we have been for a while, but as we have proven over the last few years, it's not always how much you have but what you do with it that counts.

We'll hardly be shopping in the bargain basement.

If we use the BKFG to it's full potential then we should be able to pick up better value signings than we have been doing.

Hear7s and Aberdeen might have slightly bigger budgets, but we all shop in roughly the same market and attract the same level of player.

As this season has shown so far it's more about competency in management and recruitment, they may have a slight advantage revenue wise but if you have better people at the helm that more than accounts for it.

Whether or not we can achieve that consistently going forward is the big unknown.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't believe we're skint so to speak. We've maxed out our budget (and then some it seemed recently) but that should hopefully be about to correct itself for the most part when we part ways with majority of the overpaid duds we accumulated over time. Even guys like McKirdy, JDH, Amos all being released in January will have taken money out of our budget from now to the end of the season.

The summer should be a cleaner start for us a bit and allow us to do business still.

Whatever the summer budget is it might also be helped with the sales of Vente and Youan as well .

[Centre Hawf]

Whatever the summer budget is it might also be helped with the sales of Vente and Youan as well .

Absolutely. I imagine both aren't cheap wages either, although Vente will currently be mostly covered by his loan club.

But even without the sale of these two we'll still have a new 'fresh' budget for the season ahead that will be there or there about the same as every other year when things like season ticket sales, kit releases, prize money, and tv money all reveals itself to us. Just thankfully the amount of it we've committed to spending on it already will have lowered compared to the likes of last summer.

[JohnM1875]

Whatever the summer budget is it might also be helped with the sales of Vente and Youan as well .

Yup, it should be, but then again that's two more players you'll need to replace to an already huge number of out of contract or loan ending. We're going to have to spend a fair chunk of money this summer regardless and I expect us to do so.

Where we find that money though, that's up to the owners and hopefully BKFC.

[Ozyhibby]

Hear7s and Aberdeen might have slightly bigger budgets, but we all shop in roughly the same market and attract the same level of player.

As this season has shown so far it's more about competency in management and recruitment, they may have a slight advantage revenue wise but if you have better people at the helm that more than accounts for it.

Whether or not we can achieve that consistently going forward is the big unknown.

Depressing that ‘game changing’ investment from the Black Knights has us exactly where we were before. [emoji849][emoji22]


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[One Day Soon]

Depressing that ‘game changing’ investment from the Black Knights has us exactly where we were before. [emoji849][emoji22]


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Yup, the opportunity cost of the Gordons has been huge. They have wasted millions for no tangible football improvement. Let's hope they have learned because we are locked in the boot of their car for as long as they decide to stay.

[Since90+2]

Depressing that ‘game changing’ investment from the Black Knights has us exactly where we were before. [emoji849][emoji22]


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Too early to say that. We have a good chance of 3rd this season, I'd go as far to say we are more likely than not to finish in the top 4. That's not normal for Hibs, unfortunately our average finish is below that.

The investment was never going to instantly propel us to a guaranteed 3rd place finish and barring an exceptionally unlucky draw I'd have made us a good bet to make the semis of the Scottish.

Rome wasn't built in a day as the saying goes.

[Ozyhibby]

Too early to say that. We have a good chance of 3rd this season, I'd go as far to say we are more likely than not to finish in the top 4. That's not normal for Hibs, unfortunately our average finish is below that.

The investment was never going to instantly propel us to a guaranteed 3rd place finish and barring an exceptionally unlucky draw I'd have made us a good bet to make the semis of the Scottish.

Rome wasn't built in a day as the saying goes.

No but ‘game changing’ suggests we would have a larger budget than those clubs? If we don’t and are still behind them then we were deceived.
Finishing third is something we occasionally did and if we do it this season then that in itself is not a sign that we have changed the game. Consistently finishing in Euro spots is what was promised.


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[Donegal Hibby]

Absolutely. I imagine both aren't cheap wages either, although Vente will currently be mostly covered by his loan club.

But even without the sale of these two we'll still have a new 'fresh' budget for the season ahead that will be there or there about the same as every other year when things like season ticket sales, kit releases, prize money, and tv money all reveals itself to us. Just thankfully the amount of it we've committed to spending on it already will have lowered compared to the likes of last summer.

I think we will get a decent fee for Vente and make money on Youan . The wages I agree probably aren’t cheap, just on the wages as someone that wants to see us keep a few of our players coming out of contract .

I do wonder if we have to reduce our wage bill where does that leave us with the likes of Cadden , Rocky and in particular Boyle ?

[Since90+2]

No but ‘game changing’ suggests we would have a larger budget than those clubs? If we don’t and are still behind them then we were deceived.
Finishing third is something we occasionally did and if we do it this season then that in itself is not a sign that we have changed the game. Consistently finishing in Euro spots is what was promised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well considering they only invested 12 months ago, and there's a good chance we'll finish in the Euro spots this season, I'm not sure what more you were expecting at this stage?

[Ribs1875]

Tam Mcmanus made a few good points today in his article. One of them that stood out is our average wage is 5k per week. It's pretty unacceptable paying that type of money considering how bad we have been the last few year. He is right why there was a reluctance to spend/sign in January.

[CropleyWasGod]

Tam Mcmanus made a few good points today in his article. One of them that stood out is our average wage is 5k per week. It's pretty unacceptable paying that type of money considering how bad we have been the last few year. He is right why there was a reluctance to spend/sign in January.

How would Tam know that?

[JohnM1875]

How would Tam know that?

He wouldn't. He's a moron.

[Since90+2]

How would Tam know that?

Very quick calculation on that based on 24 first team players is about 6.2 million a year on the first team squad.

I've not looked into it to know if that's viable relative to our public wages to turnover ratio when considering total number of staff but it's probably easy enough to disprove if it sounds totally inaccurate.

[CropleyWasGod]

Very quick calculation on that based on 24 first team players is about 6.2 million a year on the first team squad.

I've not looked into it to know if that's viable relative to our public wages to turnover ratio when considering total number of staff but it's probably easy enough to disprove if it sounds totally inaccurate.

My point is that he's made that statement without defining what he actually means. Does he mean (as you suggest) the 24 in the first-team squad, or over the 131 players and management? The latter is just bonkers, the former a bit more credible.

Averages, of course, can be notoriously misleading. If we have 3 players on £1k pw, and 1 on £17k, that's an average of £5k. It doesn't mean that we're high payers, though.

I'd be interested in how he arrives at it.

[cubehindthegoal]

Tam Mcmanus made a few good points today in his article. One of them that stood out is our average wage is 5k per week. It's pretty unacceptable paying that type of money considering how bad we have been the last few year. He is right why there was a reluctance to spend/sign in January.

If he knows this, did he - or hopefully he is at least then able too - give similar figures for other clubs in our league, so a meaningful comparison is possible ?

[cubehindthegoal]

My point is that he's made that statement without defining what he actually means. Does he mean (as you suggest) the 24 in the first-team squad, or over the 131 players and management? The latter is just bonkers, the former a bit more credible.

Averages, of course, can be notoriously misleading. If we have 3 players on £1k pw, and 1 on £17k, that's an average of £5k. It doesn't mean that we're high payers, though.

I'd be interested in how he arrives at it.

I’d agree, the most likely, common sense would say - and potentially credible too - is he means the first team (or playing pool including “youth” players?).

Key though too is to be able to show where we sit in comparison to other clubs in the league, if the information is being used as a whip.

[Since90+2]

My point is that he's made that statement without defining what he actually means. Does he mean (as you suggest) the 24 in the first-team squad, or over the 131 players and management? The latter is just bonkers, the former a bit more credible.

Averages, of course, can be notoriously misleading. If we have 3 players on £1k pw, and 1 on £17k, that's an average of £5k. It doesn't mean that we're high payers, though.

I'd be interested in how he arrives at it.

He's clearly not referring to an average wage of the 131 employees at the club.

He'll be refering to the players, as much as I agree he doesn't know what he's talking about id say it's fairly obvious he's not talking about the wage of the receptionist or the administrator.

We're not going to have players on 17k a week either,cmon.

[cubehindthegoal]

He's clearly not referring to an average wage of the 131 employees at the club.

He'll be refering to the players, as much as I agree he doesn't know what he's talking about id say it's fairly obvious he's not talking about the wage of the receptionist or the administrator.

We're not going to have players on 17k a week either,cmon.

However - as an example, and accepting he thought that would be obvious - does it include all “players” at all levels in our club.? To use this info like he has, he should really show how he arrives at the figures I would suggest.

[CropleyWasGod]

He's clearly not referring to an average wage of the 131 employees at the club.

He'll be refering to the players, as much as I agree he doesn't know what he's talking about id say it's fairly obvious he's not talking about the wage of the receptionist or the administrator.

We're not going to have players on 17k a week either,cmon.

I wasn't suggesting that at all, merely demonstrating that using the word "average" is not the best measure.

(btw, the 131 refers to players and coaches. We had a further 77 commercial and admin).

[PHeffernan]

No but ‘game changing’ suggests we would have a larger budget than those clubs? If we don’t and are still behind them then we were deceived.
Finishing third is something we occasionally did and if we do it this season then that in itself is not a sign that we have changed the game. Consistently finishing in Euro spots is what was promised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Game changing suggests whatever the hearer decides it suggests.
It appears they meant they had managed to find a way to cover the massive financial black hole they had created by their moneyball recruitment strategy.

Can't say I was deceived. 6 million quid was never going to make a game changing difference in terms of the team on the pitch, especially as they said they would be spending a big chunk of it at the stadium and at East Mains.

Hearts and Aberdeen have been getting 5 million quid a throw from their alternate years of group stage European football. Hearts get a 4 million quid a season donation from Anderson and 1.2 million from their supporters. Aberdeen took in 7 million for Miovski. Despite all that one is just above us in the league this season and the other just below us.

As for all the other BKFC chat on here, folk are probably just deceiving themselves again.

[ancient hibee]

If the accounts don’t disclose a total for players wages I don’t see how anyone can know what their average wage is.

[Ronniekirk]

At the moment the reality is that the owners have committed to not labouring the club with excessive losses generated by poor decisions on their parts in regards to the football decisions. As bad as they've been in terms of their decisions, I have no real fear that they won't keep their word on that. Until they give us all reasons to actually doubt that then we're ultimately okay.

Tam McManus couldn't tell you his own arse from his elbow. He's merely writing nonsense takes that help his sad wee opinion pieces clicks on the internet. He has zero knowledge of what any of our accounts means and shouldn't be listened to when it comes to it.

January should be the only window we see where we've tightened the purse strings more than usual because overall we've been over committed to player expenditure that, thankfully, a lot ends in the summer, but despite that we've still signed 13 players this season. Not many of which I'd really call bargain basement either.

Thanks for that

[PHeffernan]

Tam Mcmanus made a few good points today in his article. One of them that stood out is our average wage is 5k per week. It's pretty unacceptable paying that type of money considering how bad we have been the last few year. He is right why there was a reluctance to spend/sign in January.

No he didnae. His 'article' as ever would appear to lack facts, depth and context.
Knee jerk dross aimed at clicks from the unquestioning who need a simple narrative.
Advertising revenues boosted, job done.

[Ronniekirk]

I very strongly suspect David Gray will we shopping in the same transfer market as he was last summer.
That is good consistent professional players that are good EFL 3rd tier level e.g. N Cadden, Smith, Ekpiteta and O'Hora.
Probably a cheeky wee 700k Bowie type cherry on top signing if a good opportunity presents itself and a Triantes type loan signing possibly from Bournemouth
I think we will move away from 1 year auld guy stop gaps like Le Fondre, Gayle and Hoilett and we will see low cost additions to the first team squad in Megwa, Molotnikov and the MacIntyre brothers.
What we are getting away from is guys on 250k a year that struggle to get in the matchday squad and don't get a game.

We should also bring in 2.5 million this summer for Youan and Vente who both currently have less than 16 months left on their contracts so must be sold in the next window.

P.S. Tam McManus is writing populist drivel to elicit the clicks necessary to hang onto his slavering for money gigs which is fair enough. However, i'm almost 100% certain that he knows no more than folk on this forum about Hibs finances or the transfer markets that Hibs will be operating in this summer.

Thanks

[Centre Hawf]

If the accounts don’t disclose a total for players wages I don’t see how anyone can know what their average wage is.

He can’t and won’t. He’s a fanny.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Tam Mcmanus made a few good points today in his article. One of them that stood out is our average wage is 5k per week. It's pretty unacceptable paying that type of money considering how bad we have been the last few year. He is right why there was a reluctance to spend/sign in January.
Salt,pinch,off -rearrange

[Bostonhibby]

How would Tam know that?A man in a pub told him?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

I am no accountant so can someone tell me simply what it means when owners are saying they will cover losses on players ( I may have read that wrong ) but my impression was that they are not covering the fu 7 .2 million loss
And is Tam McManus scaremongering when his article today says because of the losses and high wages we have been paying , David Gray will be shopping in the basement bargain transfer market ?

It looks like they are doing it by issuing new shares in the club. They pay the club money for the new shares. The club gets cash and the owners dilute the value of each share.

Making up numbers, but let's say there are 100 shares in the club and I own them all (I.e. 100%). If the club issue another 100 shares at £70k each and I buy them all then the club gets £7m, I still own 100% of the club it just means I have 200/200ths rather than 100/100ths.

[CropleyWasGod]

It looks like they are doing it by issuing new shares in the club. They pay the club money for the new shares. The club gets cash and the owners dilute the value of each share.

Making up numbers, but let's say there are 100 shares in the club and I own them all (I.e. 100%). If the club issue another 100 shares at £70k each and I buy them all then the club gets £7m, I still own 100% of the club it just means I have 200/200ths rather than 100/100ths.

Interesting.

Where did yoiu get this from? And who is buying the shares?

[DarlingtonHibee]

Interesting.

Where did yoiu get this from? And who is buying the shares?

It's mentioned in the accounts

Is it not the £5 million debt the Gordon’s swapped for equity last year

[CropleyWasGod]

It's mentioned in the accounts

Is it not the £5 million debt the Gordon’s swapped for equity last year

Sorry, I thought Speedy was talking about how they are going to "cover the losses", which they have committed to doing.

That swap didn't cover any losses, it reduced our debt.

[Centre Hawf]

Sorry, I thought Speedy was talking about how they are going to "cover the losses", which they have committed to doing.

That swap didn't cover any losses, it reduced our debt.

Our debt to them to be fair.

[cubehindthegoal]

Our debt to them to be fair.

But that’s not the losses for that year as I understand Speedy said would be covered by shares, unless I’m mistaken … though as I’ve said before, I’m no expert.

[Ronniekirk]

It looks like they are doing it by issuing new shares in the club. They pay the club money for the new shares. The club gets cash and the owners dilute the value of each share.

Making up numbers, but let's say there are 100 shares in the club and I own them all (I.e. 100%). If the club issue another 100 shares at £70k each and I buy them all then the club gets £7m, I still own 100% of the club it just means I have 200/200ths rather than 100/100ths.

I don’t even have an arithmetic o level but I get your drift

[HoboHarry]

I don’t even have an arithmetic o level but I get your drift
So many angles in there I thought it was geometry :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

It looks like they are doing it by issuing new shares in the club. They pay the club money for the new shares. The club gets cash and the owners dilute the value of each share.

Making up numbers, but let's say there are 100 shares in the club and I own them all (I.e. 100%). If the club issue another 100 shares at £70k each and I buy them all then the club gets £7m, I still own 100% of the club it just means I have 200/200ths rather than 100/100ths.

A good description of what can happen but were shares issued in this case?

[Caversham Green]

But that’s not the losses for that year as I understand Speedy said would be covered by shares, unless I’m mistaken … though as I’ve said before, I’m no expert.

The £7.2m losses represent money that has already been spent and that money was obtained through share issues and debt clearance (broadly speaking). The financial position of the club at 30 June 2024 as shown by the balance sheet looked reasonably healthy, but the concern is that the club will continue to make large losses and will have to find new money to cover them.

My guess is that it will initially take the form of loans (i.e. more debt) which will eventually be cancelled by either further share issues, debt forgiveness or as part of the sale of the Gordons's* share of the club.

* That's one for the apostrophe police.

[Cabbage-Patch]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Cadden, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell and possibly C Cadden I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

[babahibs]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

Obvious?
Is it, aye?

[ruthven_raiders]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

Out of those 11 players, only 4 are 1st team regular players, tho Gayle has been playing from the start recently, 5 or 6 quality players are needed to come into first 11, thino Miller might be offered a contract too....we can't be overloading our squad again, need to cut the wage ratio by a huge amount....

[Cabbage-Patch]

Obvious?
Is it, aye?

I would say so. The current wage ratio is unsustainable and that's coming from the club not me. So the out of contract players move on or will in all likelihood have to accept a cheaper deal. The clubs been run into the ground financially as a result of the Gordons trying to pretend they know how run a football club these last few years and we are all about to see the consequences.

[Donegal Hibby]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

There’s so much you say I disagree with .. firstly nothing is obvious! .We don’t know what’s going to happen with the likes of Boyle , Cadden , Rocky and Miller . I think both Gayle and Hoilett will go due to their ages plus Youan and Vente who should bring in additional money to help with the rebuild..

Myko , Bursik and Kwon will go who disappointingly haven’t exactly set the heather on fire so we might possibly end up with players who will contribute more ..

We have already tried to sign players like McCowan and Stilanen so we were willing to spend on the right players. We will have a transfer budget and with Garvan Stewart heading the recruitment I think there will be some exciting signings , as to free transfers and bargain buys if they are the right quality and fit for us , then why not ? . Is that not what most clubs do in trying to save money?

[Vini1875]

What seems incredible to me is that we have billionaires or people who control billion dollar businesses and yet they don't seem able to do simple sums when it comes to Hibs. It feels like we have guys placing bets but doubling their stake every time they lose in the hope that one time they'll get a winner and that will cover all previous losses. Yes we could win the Scottish Cup and get 3rd, then go on a money spinning run in Europe and bing bang bosh all our money worries are over, but it is no way to run a business.

The worry is at what point do the Gordons decide enough is enough.

[Smartie]

If the Gordons decided to sell up, what is the value of the club likely to be relative to when they bought it?

Will it increase as a result of turnover being up and some investment having been made in infrastructure or be down as a result of the fact that it’s gone from basically breaking even to being a business that needs £7.2m in a year to prop it up (even accepting that that may have been an outlying bad year)?

In my line of work businesses are generally valued at multiples of EBITDA, adjusted for various other factors. Just curious how it works with football clubs?

Main reason I ask is that I’m curious as to how long the Gordons might be prepared to prop up losses… and what it would mean for their family finances if they were to cash their chips? And then, how deep the pockets would need to be for someone coming in?

[Caversham Green]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

The area they should be looking at first imho is the 75% increase in commercial and admin staff numbers with apparently little resultant increase in turnover (most of the increase in turnover will have come from the European qualification). Unless relevant turnover has increased substantially in the current year that needs to be remedied urgently.

[Smartie]

The area they should be looking at first imho is the 75% increase in commercial and admin staff numbers with apparently little resultant increase in turnover (most of the increase in turnover will have come from the European qualification). Unless relevant turnover has increased substantially in the current year that needs to be remedied urgently.

Have we heard much about season ticket numbers over the past couple of years? Numbers would appear to be down from where they were.

Might we have replaced season ticket income with hospitality income, only to generate the hospitality income we’ll have had to increase the staff cost base?

Those 2 income streams cancel each other out and, as you say, the turnover increase comes from the European games?

[CropleyWasGod]

The £7.2m losses represent money that has already been spent and that money was obtained through share issues and debt clearance (broadly speaking). The financial position of the club at 30 June 2024 as shown by the balance sheet looked reasonably healthy, but the concern is that the club will continue to make large losses and will have to find new money to cover them.

My guess is that it will initially take the form of loans (i.e. more debt) which will eventually be cancelled by either further share issues, debt forgiveness or as part of the sale of the Gordons's* share of the club.

* That's one for the apostrophe police.

Cheers for that.

To clarify, are you saying that you think the £7m loss has already been covered by the share issue etc? I had read it differently, in that it would be covered in the current year by....(insert loans/shares/donations).

(The question has been asked directly btw.)

[Cabbage-Patch]

There’s so much you say I disagree with .. firstly nothing is obvious! .We don’t know what’s going to happen with the likes of Boyle , Cadden , Rocky and Miller . I think both Gayle and Hoilett will go due to their ages plus Youan and Vente who should bring in additional money to help with the rebuild..

Myko , Bursik and Kwon will go who disappointingly haven’t exactly set the heather on fire so we might possibly end up with players who will contribute more ..

We have already tried to sign players like McCowan and Stilanen so we were willing to spend on the right players. We will have a transfer budget and with Garvan Stewart heading the recruitment I think there will be some exciting signings , as to free transfers and bargain buys if they are the right quality and fit for us , then why not ? . Is that not what most clubs do in trying to save money?

We will just need to wait and see. As for Siltanen did the club ever admit they were after him? I found that that link very odd. McCowan also. I have my doubts we were ever in a position to offer a million pounds for a player. We were obviously in for him but when it became obvious he wanted to go celtic I reckon might have been a certain about of virtue signalling from the club. Truth is we will never know. Just my opinion.

[babahibs]

I would say so. The current wage ratio is unsustainable and that's coming from the club not me. So the out of contract players move on or will in all likelihood have to accept a cheaper deal. The clubs been run into the ground financially as a result of the Gordons trying to pretend they know how run a football club these last few years and we are all about to see the consequences.

Well, if you say so.

[Alfred E Newman]

Being a thicko, I'm always amazed how many financial wizards we have in our ranks.:greengrin

[RMQ1967]

Well, if you say so.

😂 This is what's great about football forums - very few that have real knowledge about football management, coaching or tactics & fewer still with financial knowledge but there are plenty that know where it's all going wrong & and how to put it right.

Even some who know what owners & shareholders are thinking & planning 😁

None of us know the current risk appetite of the owners - if things are turning around on the pitch they may be inclined to plough more money in. If we're cursed with bad decisions & bad draws they may be more conservative - who knows what they're thinking at this point.

[04Sauzee]

We will just need to wait and see. As for Siltanen did the club ever admit they were after him? I found that that link very odd. McCowan also. I have my doubts we were ever in a position to offer a million pounds for a player. We were obviously in for him but when it became obvious he wanted to go celtic I reckon might have been a certain about of virtue signalling from the club. Truth is we will never know. Just my opinion.

The boy from Finland was linked to us by the guys at the Observer, I could be wrong but they don't normally just throw names about for the sake of it. I think they want to be a credible source of Hibs info so only report on credible links/stories

[Bayern Bru]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Cadden, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell and possibly C Cadden I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

Campbell isn't out of contract

[Centre Hawf]

Its obvious off the back of all this a few key players will move on in the summer such as Boyle, Rocky and Youan. 1st team players such as Campbell, Cadden, Hoilett, Miller and Gayle also out of contract. With the exception of Campbell and possibly C Cadden I can't see any of the others staying as it would likely mean accepting a new contract with less money.

Of the loan signings of Myko, Bursik, Kwon and Triantis none will likely resign with Triantis being the only one I would personally want being out of our price range. This means we will effectively need to sign pretty much a whole new 1st team with us likely having to shop around for free agents or bargain deals given our financial situation. Dire times and regardless of where we finish up this season I think there's a solid chance we will go into next season with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Given how the start of this season went I find all this extremely worrying. Garvan Stewart certainly has his work cut out. Special thanks to Ben Kensall and the Gordon's. Good work lads ��

We were always going to have to do a lot of work this window regardless of any financial concerns, of which I have none btw.

Campbell is under contract so that one can be parked off to the side. In terms of those exiting the club though there's really only Boyle (one year option anyway), Rocky, Miller (one year option), and Chris Cadden all out of contract that are worth contemplating keeping. The loans can all go as you suggested.

The only thing obvious is that we went into this window wanting to do a small amount of business, probably due to budget constraints, and the bulk of our recruitment teams work would be on the business for the summer. I wouldn't be surprised if we had guys under pre-contract ready to go or close to it, at least that's something I hope.

[Cabbage-Patch]

Well, if you say so.

Feel free to enlighten us with your views big man:aok:

[Cabbage-Patch]

Campbell isn't out of contract

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hibernian-fc/vertragsende/verein/903

I got it from here. Obviously a mistake

[overdrive]

Cheers for that.

To clarify, are you saying that you think the £7m loss has already been covered by the share issue etc? I had read it differently, in that it would be covered in the current year by....(insert loans/shares/donations).

(The question has been asked directly btw.)

How much was the second share issue for? The one that Bydand, Robb and HSL bought into but not BKFC just before the financial year-end? Would make sense if that was part of the "covering the losses" given the timing

[Caversham Green]

Cheers for that.

To clarify, are you saying that you think the £7m loss has already been covered by the share issue etc? I had read it differently, in that it would be covered in the current year by....(insert loans/shares/donations).

(The question has been asked directly btw.)

Despite the loss, net asset value has increased by £5.4m. That tells us that there is no ongoing burden resulting specifically from the loss and really the only way that could have happened is by the share issues counteracting it. On the other hand the increase in NAV is mostly represented by the reduction in long-term debt (i.e. the debt for equity part of the share issue) so it doesn't give us any real benefit for the current year, which will almost certainly show a hefty loss.

In other words I think the 2024 loss and both share issues are purely historical now and we have a new problem in trying to cover this year's losses. If the losses consist mostly of depreciation/amortisation type of expense no new injections would be necessary but it seems loans and donations might have occurred after 30 June 2024.

Not sure if that answers your question though

[babahibs]

Feel free to enlighten us with your views big man:aok:

See rmq1967 post above.

Nobody knows.

[babahibs]

😂 This is what's great about football forums - very few that have real knowledge about football management, coaching or tactics & fewer still with financial knowledge but there are plenty that know where it's all going wrong & and how to put it right.

Even some who know what owners & shareholders are thinking & planning 😁

None of us know the current risk appetite of the owners - if things are turning around on the pitch they may be inclined to plough more money in. If we're cursed with bad decisions & bad draws they may be more conservative - who knows what they're thinking at this point.

Well said

[CropleyWasGod]

How much was the second share issue for? The one that Bydand, Robb and HSL bought into but not BKFC just before the financial year-end? Would make sense if that was part of the "covering the losses" given the timing

About £2.26m

For me, at the time, that was plugging the income lost by not reaching the Top 6. So, possibly part of "covering the loss".

There is also talk in the accounts of donations being included in turnover, which is a bull**** way of doing things IMO, for so many reasons. However, depending on the amount, that might also be a way in which the losses are being covered.

Again, the question has been asked :greengrin

[danhibees1875]

Cheers for that.

To clarify, are you saying that you think the £7m loss has already been covered by the share issue etc? I had read it differently, in that it would be covered in the current year by....(insert loans/shares/donations).

(The question has been asked directly btw.)

I read it both ways if that helps at all. I feel like the messaging from Hibs was a little unclear in that regard when combined with the actual numbers in the accounts.

It could easily be read as the loss was an intended result of overspending on the back of the share issue money. However, given the comments around loss covering I think there will be more to come.

My theory would be that the share issue will be considered split 50% stadium investment and 50% overspending. This leaves a £4M gap to otherwise be covered by a new vehicle (loan/shares) that we'll see as the "covering the losses" part. Although I think they'd get away with a smaller amount to say it's "covered" all things considered.

The overall picture of the P&L and B/S all seems to tie up for the previous period but the mention of "covering losses" suggests there will be something additional. Overall, I think that'll be needed as the losses are largely going to be an ongoing thing as wages seem unlikely to have reduced, depreciation should only go up, etc (hopefully no more sponsors liquidate though).

Essentially, share issues/loans each year to square off the previous year's losses until the club is running a more sustainable model.

[Caversham Green]

I read it both ways if that helps at all. I feel like the messaging from Hibs was a little unclear in that regard when combined with the actual numbers in the accounts.

It could easily be read as the loss was an intended result of overspending on the back of the share issue money. However, given the comments around loss covering I think there will be more to come.

My theory would be that the share issue will be considered split 50% stadium investment and 50% overspending. This leaves a £4M gap to otherwise be covered by a new vehicle (loan/shares) that we'll see as the "covering the losses" part. Although I think they'd get away with a smaller amount to say it's "covered" all things considered.

The overall picture of the P&L and B/S all seems to tie up for the previous period but the mention of "covering losses" suggests there will be something additional. Overall, I think that'll be needed as the losses are largely going to be an ongoing thing as wages seem unlikely to have reduced, depreciation should only go up, etc (hopefully no more sponsors liquidate though).

Essentially, share issues/loans each year to square off the previous year's losses until the club is running a more sustainable model.

What he said (more or less).

[CropleyWasGod]

I read it both ways if that helps at all. I feel like the messaging from Hibs was a little unclear in that regard when combined with the actual numbers in the accounts.

It could easily be read as the loss was an intended result of overspending on the back of the share issue money. However, given the comments around loss covering I think there will be more to come.

My theory would be that the share issue will be considered split 50% stadium investment and 50% overspending. This leaves a £4M gap to otherwise be covered by a new vehicle (loan/shares) that we'll see as the "covering the losses" part. Although I think they'd get away with a smaller amount to say it's "covered" all things considered.

The overall picture of the P&L and B/S all seems to tie up for the previous period but the mention of "covering losses" suggests there will be something additional. Overall, I think that'll be needed as the losses are largely going to be an ongoing thing as wages seem unlikely to have reduced, depreciation should only go up, etc (hopefully no more sponsors liquidate though).

Essentially, share issues/loans each year to square off the previous year's losses until the club is running a more sustainable model.


What he said (more or less).

Cheers, both :aok:

[Hibernia&Alba]

😂 This is what's great about football forums - very few that have real knowledge about football management, coaching or tactics & fewer still with financial knowledge but there are plenty that know where it's all going wrong & and how to put it right.

Even some who know what owners & shareholders are thinking & planning 😁

None of us know the current risk appetite of the owners - if things are turning around on the pitch they may be inclined to plough more money in. If we're cursed with bad decisions & bad draws they may be more conservative - who knows what they're thinking at this point.

Wit ye talking aboot? Big Tam, a plasterer fae Leith, has been posting on here for twenty years, and wit he disnae ken aboot Hibs accounts isnae worth kennin. Never been wrang yet.

[PHeffernan]

Have we heard much about season ticket numbers over the past couple of years? Numbers would appear to be down from where they were.

Might we have replaced season ticket income with hospitality income, only to generate the hospitality income we’ll have had to increase the staff cost base?

Those 2 income streams cancel each other out and, as you say, the turnover increase comes from the European games?

We are in a Chemical Ali world now where folk crow about the good and don't even acknowledge the bad has happened. Accordingly we only hear about season ticket sales when they are good and there is no mention of them if they are disappointing or worse than our rivals hence Hibs haven't told us final season ticket numbers for a few seasons now.

I suspect they are still circa 11,000 which compares badly with those of our maroon chums. Walk ups appear decent though given that our average home attendances reported this season are only 2000 less than Hearts and 1400 less than Aberdeen. Sadly another important revenue metric where we trail our two rivals and one that our fans could do something about.

[Ozyhibby]

What seems incredible to me is that we have billionaires or people who control billion dollar businesses and yet they don't seem able to do simple sums when it comes to Hibs. It feels like we have guys placing bets but doubling their stake every time they lose in the hope that one time they'll get a winner and that will cover all previous losses. Yes we could win the Scottish Cup and get 3rd, then go on a money spinning run in Europe and bing bang bosh all our money worries are over, but it is no way to run a business.

The worry is at what point do the Gordons decide enough is enough.

There is no evidence that Ian Gordon has any business acumen at all? Just because his dad was successful doesn’t mean he is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lago]

What seems incredible to me is that we have billionaires or people who control billion dollar businesses and yet they don't seem able to do simple sums when it comes to Hibs. It feels like we have guys placing bets but doubling their stake every time they lose in the hope that one time they'll get a winner and that will cover all previous losses. Yes we could win the Scottish Cup and get 3rd, then go on a money spinning run in Europe and bing bang bosh all our money worries are over, but it is no way to run a business.

The worry is at what point do the Gordons decide enough is enough.
I read with interest the various options on the loss and as a complete layman it is difficult to unravel, but one things for sure no matter how you wrap up the £7.5 million loss, in pretty wrapping paper with a big fancy bow, the optics are awful and to date not one word about how it's going to be improved.

[RMQ1967]

Wit ye talking aboot? Big Tam, a plasterer fae Leith, has been posting on here for twenty years, and wit he disnae ken aboot Hibs accounts isnae worth kennin. Never been wrang yet.

Haha😅 We can all speculate, all part of the interest of these forums but annoying to read the grand proclamations of fact about who is or isn't Hibs quality or how clueless the coaching team or owners are.

A couple of months ago I'd have been happy to see most of them shipped out at the end of the season but thankfully there are people at Hibs that have more of a clue than me 😁

[Since452]

We are in a Chemical Ali world now where folk crow about the good and don't even acknowledge the bad has happened. Accordingly we only hear about season ticket sales when they are good and there is no mention of them if they are disappointing or worse than our rivals hence Hibs haven't told us final season ticket numbers for a few seasons now.

I suspect they are still circa 11,000 which compares badly with those of our maroon chums. Walk ups appear decent though given that our average home attendances reported this season are only 2000 less than Hearts and 1400 less than Aberdeen. Sadly another important revenue metric where we trail our two rivals and one that our fans could do something about.

I honestly can't believe we have a lower average than Aberdeen. Must be a first. What's going on there? Cheap tickets up there?

[RMQ1967]

I read with interest the various options on the loss and as a complete layman it is difficult to unravel, but one things for sure no matter how you wrap up the £7.5 million loss, in pretty wrapping paper with a big fancy bow, the optics are awful and to date not one word about how it's going to be improved.

On a completely different scale but look at the cash Abramovich pumped into Chelsea or other owners pump into clubs.

Completely sustainable as long as they're willing to do it and that includes clubs in the bottom tiers of club football.

Clearly we want the books to be balanced but who cares about the optics if the owners are happy to cover it?

[Lago]

On a completely different scale but look at the cash Abramovich pumped into Chelsea or other owners pump into clubs.

Completely sustainable as long as they're willing to do it and that includes clubs in the bottom tiers of club football.

Clearly we want the books to be balanced but who cares about the optics if the owners are happy to cover it?
Let's hope they have the will and more importantly the bank balance to sustain it. 🤞🙏

[ancient hibee]

As far as I remember the figures our loss is on par with Hearts loss and James Anderson's donation then reduced it-in other words covered most of the loss.

[PHeffernan]

I honestly can't believe we have a lower average than Aberdeen. Must be a first. What's going on there? Cheap tickets up there?

Basically, Aberdeen fans bought into Thelin.
Interesting to find out what happens with their attendances next season if he can't arrest their form slide very soon.

Hibs need more supporters and less firestick fans to close the attendance gap with our rivals. Hearts extra 2000 supporters per home game will pay the wages of 3 first team players.


P.S. The new striker Aberdeen signed a couple of weeks ago looks an interesting player.

[oneone73]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hibernian-fc/vertragsende/verein/903

I got it from here. Obviously a mistake

It is. Campbell is contracted until 2027.

[Since452]

Basically, Aberdeen fans bought into Thelin.
Interesting to find out what happens with their attendances next season if he can't arrest their form slide very soon.

Hibs need more supporters and less firestick fans to close the attendance gap with our rivals. Hearts extra 2000 supporters per home game will pay the wages of 3 first team players.


P.S. The new striker Aberdeen signed a couple of weeks ago looks an interesting player.

Our next couple of home games will be 38/40k combined so that will probably bring us closer to Aberdeen

[CropleyWasGod]

As far as I remember the figures our loss is on par with Hearts loss and James Anderson's donation then reduced it-in other words covered most of the loss.

Their loss before donations was £10m. Donations were about £5.5m, so a net loss of £4.5m.

As has been said, they budgeted for the donations. In this case, the loss was money well-spent, since it resulted in them qualifying for Europe. With this season's UEFA money, their figures for this year should look better.

[Centre Hawf]

Basically, Aberdeen fans bought into Thelin.
Interesting to find out what happens with their attendances next season if he can't arrest their form slide very soon.

Hibs need more supporters and less firestick fans to close the attendance gap with our rivals. Hearts extra 2000 supporters per home game will pay the wages of 3 first team players.


P.S. The new striker Aberdeen signed a couple of weeks ago looks an interesting player.

Probably not the time or thread for this discussion but I think both clubs are a great example of teams that should want the 3pm blackout lifted and a PPV for non TV games put in place. I imagine there are a lot of fans up and down the UK that would happily stick £15 quid in per game to watch on the TV rather than travel the multiple hours to go. Hearts probably similar.

[overdrive]

Probably not the time or thread for this discussion but I think both clubs are a great example of teams that should want the 3pm blackout lifted and a PPV for non TV games put in place. I imagine there are a lot of fans up and down the UK that would happily stick £15 quid in per game to watch on the TV rather than travel the multiple hours to go. Hearts probably similar.

They are probably already watching by either paying for the international subscription and using a VPN or on IPTV for free. You probably wouldn't get a lot of people switching if it was available as a UK PPV.

[Centre Hawf]

They are probably already watching by either paying for the international subscription and using a VPN or on IPTV for free. You probably wouldn't get a lot of people switching if it was available as a UK PPV.

I admit I am someone who sometimes will use IPTV to watch a Hibs game and would gladly swap the inconsistencies of it for 10/15/20 quid. I've never tried to watch via a non UK Sub with a VPN though so can't say how reliable a method that is. I know a lot of Celtic fans that have done that in Ireland though.

Scotland is falling far behind in its TV/media landscape in my opinion and needs to adapt very quickly.

[PHeffernan]

Our next couple of home games will be 38/40k combined so that will probably bring us closer to Aberdeen

Yeah, 38,000 at our next 2 home games would get our average attendances this season up to 17,000 from 16,602 and would see us close the gap to less than 1000 supporters per home game behind attendances at Pittodrie but still 1500 behind Hearts.

[PHeffernan]

Probably not the time or thread for this discussion but I think both clubs are a great example of teams that should want the 3pm blackout lifted and a PPV for non TV games put in place. I imagine there are a lot of fans up and down the UK that would happily stick £15 quid in per game to watch on the TV rather than travel the multiple hours to go. Hearts probably similar.

If tech companies can eventually prevent folk from being able to get free streams it would make sense and charging subscribers 10 quid for an away game would bring in good money especially for games at Aberdeen and Dingwall where even Edinburgh based Hibees face an expensive and time consuming trek to get to and from the game.

The danger if you include PPV for home games is the risk of slowly killing attendances over time which would have a knock on with reduced matchday income from food, hospitality, reduced shop income and a poorer match atmosphere.

[Centre Hawf]

If tech companies can eventually prevent folk from being able to get free streams it would make sense and charging subscribers 10 quid for an away game would bring in good money especially for games at Aberdeen and Dingwall where even Edinburgh based Hibees face an expensive and time consuming trek to get to and from the game.

The danger if you include PPV for home games is the risk of slowly killing attendances over time which would have a knock on with reduced matchday income from food, hospitality, reduced shop income and a poorer match atmosphere.

I personally don't think that is as big an issue as people make out it would be. In the current system if I choose to not go to a game Hibs get nothing and the only one who profits is the boy I WhatsApped to get my app on the stick. I think there are many like me that would swap that dodgy free stream to give money to Hibs instead for a more stable, guilt free, experience.

If anything getting folk used to paying every week may help some go 'sod it i'll actually just go to this one as I've nothing else on around the game and it's only an extra £8'.

Continuing to enforce a system that leaves money on the table helps no one.

[ancient hibee]

Perhaps but quite a few buy seasons and then don’t go to every game. The club wouldn’t like to lose them.

[WhileTheChief..]

People that use IPTV or similar are probably using it for a lot more than just watching Hibs games.

It saves them subscribing to Netflix, Amazon, Paramount etc etc.

Can’t see folk ditching it any time soon.

[Not In The Know]

There’s so much you say I disagree with .. firstly nothing is obvious! .We don’t know what’s going to happen with the likes of Boyle , Cadden , Rocky and Miller . I think both Gayle and Hoilett will go due to their ages plus Youan and Vente who should bring in additional money to help with the rebuild..

Myko , Bursik and Kwon will go who disappointingly haven’t exactly set the heather on fire so we might possibly end up with players who will contribute more ..

We have already tried to sign players like McCowan and Stilanen so we were willing to spend on the right players. We will have a transfer budget and with Garvan Stewart heading the recruitment I think there will be some exciting signings , as to free transfers and bargain buys if they are the right quality and fit for us , then why not ? . Is that not what most clubs do in trying to save money?

Im starting to think that was the Board blowing smoke up our arse pretending they were actively trying to sign exciting players...

On the face of it we had ZERO chance of either player coming and after the deals "fell through" no alternatives were sought.

[Chorley Hibee]

Im starting to think that was the Board blowing smoke up our arse pretending they were actively trying to sign exciting players...

On the face of it we had ZERO chance of either player coming and after the deals "fell through" no alternatives were sought.

That how I see it too.

I'm worried about what sort of budget will be available in the summer for the great overhaul that many seem to expect.

There needs to be some real tangible evidence of the Black Knights deal being all it was made out to be as well.

[Rumble de Thump]

Im starting to think that was the Board blowing smoke up our arse pretending they were actively trying to sign exciting players...

On the face of it we had ZERO chance of either player coming and after the deals "fell through" no alternatives were sought.

We obviously had a very real chance of signing both. Unfortunately, other clubs will want to sign the kind of players we'd like to sign. Ultimately, both those players ended up being offered deals they preferred by other clubs.

[Donegal Hibby]

Im starting to think that was the Board blowing smoke up our arse pretending they were actively trying to sign exciting players...

On the face of it we had ZERO chance of either player coming and after the deals "fell through" no alternatives were sought.

I think we did try and sign the player due to a few factors in his contract situation and with him being a real quality , playing in Scotland, player that would immediately improve us . He just ticked all the boxes in fairness…

I don’t believe we were just pretending to just try and sign him . As to having zero chance of signing McCowan it was always going to be extremely difficult to do as Dundee probably didn’t want to sell to a rival team and disappointing that Celtic came in for him end …

I was told by a Celtic fan here he wasn’t their first choice and only turned there attention to McCowan when the other one wasn’t going to happen. Wither that’s true or not I don’t know but I’ve no reason to doubt it .

Stilanen I don’t know much about though I no reason to doubt the reports that the club did indeed try to sign him as Gray had mentioned signing a player with the X-factor…


With the kind of money being talked about for both players I’m glad they didn’t just go out and spend it on an alternative as you say that might not be as good as our original targets and glad the club are taking there time rather than than the scatter gun approach we have had to signing players over the years..

Fully expected us to make a marquee type signing in the summer for around the fee we paid for Bowie or Vente despite the losses reported. One thing about our owners is they have regularly backed the club financially despite their faults.

[Centre Hawf]

I think we did try and sign the player due to a few factors in his contract situation and with him being a real quality , playing in Scotland, player that would immediately improve us . He just ticked all the boxes in fairness…

I don’t believe we were just pretending to just try and sign him . As to having zero chance of signing McCowan it was always going to be extremely difficult to do as Dundee probably didn’t want to sell to a rival team and disappointing that Celtic came in for him end …

I was told by a Celtic fan here he wasn’t their first choice and only turned there attention to McCowan when the other one wasn’t going to happen. Wither that’s true or not I don’t know but I’ve no reason to doubt it .

Stilanen I don’t know much about though I no reason to doubt the reports that the club did indeed try to sign him as Gray had mentioned signing a player with the X-factor…


With the kind of money being talked about for both players I’m glad they didn’t just go out and spend it on an alternative as you say that might not be as good as our original targets and glad the club are taking there time rather than than the scatter gun approach we have had to signing players over the years..

Fully expected us to make a marquee type signing in the summer for around the fee we paid for Bowie or Vente despite the losses reported. One thing about our owners is they have regularly backed the club financially despite their faults.

I believe it was a loan for Andy Irving at West Ham that fell through on deadline day that caused them to turn their attention to McCowan.

[Donegal Hibby]

I believe it was a loan for Andy Irving at West Ham that fell through on deadline day that caused them to turn their attention to McCowan.

I didn’t know who it was tbh as I didn’t ask the guy that told me probably because I was a bit disappointed we had lost out on him .

[grunt]

On a completely different scale but look at the cash Abramovich pumped into Chelsea or other owners pump into clubs.
Is that the same Abramovich who stiffed the UK Treasury of £1bn in unpaid taxes? Not sure we want Hibs to be funded from the proceeds of crime.

[PatHead]

Hibs definitely did try to sign Luke McCowan. We put in multiple offers and on transfer deadline day he was sitting in a hotel half way between Edinburgh and Glasgow waiting to see if Celtic would come in with a late bid. If it wasn't forthcoming he wanted to come to Hibs.
Celtic was late interest.

[Groathillgrump]

Rangers posted a c£17m loss while Celtic posted c£45m profit.

Year on year the gap between Celtic and the rest is widening by a huge margin. It’s not a two horse race in Scotland, it’s a one horse one. Celtic get further in front with each passing year.

My hope is that the current Rangers support starts to drift - there’s already a generation coming through who have known nothing other than Celtic dominance who will see their club cutting back and get disenfranchised with it all and start walking away, which pulls them in closer to us instead of them pulling away with Celtic.

Just catching up on this thread so replying to this post from a couple of days ago.

I remember going to Ibrox to watch Hibs in the early to mid 80s and it was always half empty so Matty's suggestion that the current Rangers support could start to drift is quite possible.

The average attendance in what was then a 44,000 capacity stadium over the 5 seasons between 1980/81 and the end of the 85/86 season was only 20,934 Some attendances were as low as 6000!

Their big spending started the following season after Graeme Souness had arrived at the tail end of the 85/86 season and when the glory hunters started to return the attendances rose accordingly.

Can you tell I've had too much time on my hands this afternoon? :greengrin

[Centre Hawf]

Just catching up on this thread so replying to this post from a couple of days ago.

I remember going to Ibrox to watch Hibs in the early to mid 80s and it was always half empty so Matty's suggestion that the current Rangers support could start to drift is quite possible.

The average attendance in what was then a 44,000 capacity stadium over the 5 seasons between 1980/81 and the end of the 85/86 season was only 20,934 Some attendances were as low as 6000!

Their big spending started the following season after Graeme Souness had arrived at the tail end of the 85/86 season and when the glory hunters started to return the attendances rose accordingly.

Can you tell I've had too much time on my hands this afternoon? :greengrin

I have my reservations on if it could ever get back to that level of half empty or even 10k at Ibrox attendances. But I will say the Covid season where Gerrard won the league and then the Europa League final run has probably saved them from us all finding out how far it could actually drop. If they were staring down the barrel of 20 in a row with nothing but maybe a Scottish Cup or League Cup to show for it they could have been in serious bother.

[where'stheslope]

Just catching up on this thread so replying to this post from a couple of days ago.

I remember going to Ibrox to watch Hibs in the early to mid 80s and it was always half empty so Matty's suggestion that the current Rangers support could start to drift is quite possible.

The average attendance in what was then a 44,000 capacity stadium over the 5 seasons between 1980/81 and the end of the 85/86 season was only 20,934 Some attendances were as low as 6000!

Their big spending started the following season after Graeme Souness had arrived at the tail end of the 85/86 season and when the glory hunters started to return the attendances rose accordingly.

Can you tell I've had too much time on my hands this afternoon? :greengrin
The difference today is the number of season tickets that they have, not many may come over from Ireland due to cost, but the attendances may drop a little but not by much.

[danhibees1875]

Hibs definitely did try to sign Luke McCowan. We put in multiple offers and on transfer deadline day he was sitting in a hotel half way between Edinburgh and Glasgow waiting to see if Celtic would come in with a late bid. If it wasn't forthcoming he wanted to come to Hibs.
Celtic was late interest.

That's a cracking story. Love the idea of him having a KFC at Heartlands Business Park waiting to see what was going to happen. :greengrin

No idea if/why it would be needed in the 21st century to be physically present, but I guess I also don't know how logistics of signing someone works.

[Centre Hawf]

That's a cracking story. Love the idea of him having a KFC at Heartlands Business Park waiting to see what was going to happen. :greengrin

No idea if/why it would be needed in the 21st century to be physically present, but I guess I also don't know how logistics of signing someone works.

Some clubs will still do a bare minimum medical if possible, then obviously a lot like the old photos and announcement videos.

[CentreLine]

That's a cracking story. Love the idea of him having a KFC at Heartlands Business Park waiting to see what was going to happen. :greengrin

No idea if/why it would be needed in the 21st century to be physically present, but I guess I also don't know how logistics of signing someone works.

Not just a cracking story but absolutely true.

[007]

Not just a cracking story but absolutely true.

Had nobody told him our bids were kiddy-on joke bids just to appease the fans and we had no intention of signing him? 🤔

[Real Emerald]

That how I see it too.

I'm worried about what sort of budget will be available in the summer for the great overhaul that many seem to expect.

There needs to be some real tangible evidence of the Black Knights deal being all it was made out to be as well.

The MM interview after deadline day certainly worried me when he started dropping hints that the big rebuild would be over the next window and the one after that or words to that effect. It just sounded like the narrative was being set to further kick the can down the road. This was prior to the £7.2m loss announcement.

I think there’s a fair bit of bluster and pulling the wool over our eyes going on, although I do recognise they can’t divulge all of the information.

[NC1875]

Is that the same Abramovich who stiffed the UK Treasury of £1bn in unpaid taxes? Not sure we want Hibs to be funded from the proceeds of crime.

Also read an article today about top sports teams basically taking advantage of research and development grants and tax relief.

An absolute piss take if I’m honest.

[CropleyWasGod]

Also read an article today about top sports teams basically taking advantage of research and development grants and tax relief.

An absolute piss take if I’m honest.

Not just top teams.

We do it. :greengrin

[danhibees1875]

Not just top teams.

We do it. :greengrin

:greengrin

[Smartie]

Not just top teams.

We do it. :greengrin

I saw that they amounted to 15% of Dundee United's turnover.

Do you have any idea what level ours are at, because it appears they're coming under a bit of scrutiny.

[CropleyWasGod]

I saw that they amounted to 15% of Dundee United's turnover.

Do you have any idea what level ours are at, because it appears they're coming under a bit of scrutiny.

Our repayment in the most recent accounts was £1.1m, which is probably for 4 years.

[WellingtonHibby]

I saw that they amounted to 15% of Dundee United's turnover.

Do you have any idea what level ours are at, because it appears they're coming under a bit of scrutiny.



https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1908792053833544067?t=UIrimuKhfusd7Usxcul3jw&s=19

[Smartie]

https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1908792053833544067?t=UIrimuKhfusd7Usxcul3jw&s=19

Very interesting - thanks.

I have a hunch that this is a proper mess, one that could blow up in a big way over the next few years.