£7.2M Loss

[Paulie Walnuts]

In the 30 yrs since then the club has been in quite deep bother a few times. Having STF there ultimately kept us going and he wrote off huge sums of money for us. Same sort of things as is happening now but we do also see the club being taken forward in a lot of areas now which had ultimately not been built on and developed to the same extent since the infrastructure projects were each completed initially.

We’ve never seen financial losses even coming close to approaching the ones we’re making on a regular basis now. The Gordon’s are, without a shadow of a doubt, the biggest threat to the club since Mercer.

[CapitalGreen]

We’ve never seen financial losses even coming close to approaching the ones we’re making on a regular basis now. The Gordon’s are, without a shadow of a doubt, the biggest threat to the club since Mercer.

Relatively speaking we certainly have. When we were relegated in the late 90s we made a £2.8m loss with a turnover of just £3.4m and a few million in debt.

[Iain G]

We’ve never seen financial losses even coming close to approaching the ones we’re making on a regular basis now. The Gordon’s are, without a shadow of a doubt, the biggest threat to the club since Mercer.

Again, this is hyperbole and nonsense.

We are not under threat, they are going to cover the overspend, they have admitted to mistakes, we are now engaging with BK and the team on the pitch is actually doing well.

And the tanned tw@t has left the building!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Relatively speaking we certainly have. When we were relegated in the late 90s we made a £2.8m loss with a turnover of just £3.4m and a few million in debt.

£2.8m in 1998 is £5.3m now. In 2 of the last 3 years we’ve made losses that have blown that out the water.

[Jones28]

At risk of sounding like I'm defending the Gordons - I'm certainly not - does the £3m of stadium expenditure contribute to the overall loss number?

If it does, when you add that figure, which is not an annual cost, plus the £1m in lost revenue from the company that went bust it looks less worrying.

Don't get me wrong, it's not sustainable to lose £3m a year for a club of our size, but that £4m in CAP EX and lost revenue makes up a very significant chunk of the money.

What I'm more confused about is how we've gone and employed an extra 33 staff? Who and why? Is it to do with hospitality?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Again, this is hyperbole and nonsense.

We are not under threat, they are going to cover the overspend, they have admitted to mistakes, we are now engaging with BK and the team on the pitch is actually doing well.

And the tanned tw@t has left the building!

If you don’t think making losses of nearly 20m over a three year period with owners who clearly don’t have a ****ing clue what they’re doing isn’t a dangerous position to be in then crack on :aok:

[USA_Hibee]

Just under $9 million for the Gordons to cover. A lot of money for non billionaires.

[Jones28]

Id draw a parallel with hearing a story on the news about a hike in interest rates or inflation rates looking worrisome. I tend to glaze over a little but because these kind of huge figures don’t really effect me in my day to day. Thats what loss numbers feel like to me.

If some interest rate shock meant my kid’s couldnt make their mortgage repayments, or inflation meant my weekly shop started to become unaffordable, then i’d start to worry. In Hibs terms, that hasnt happened yet. Once im personally affected i’ll be massively concerned. But at this stage none of us really know the long term implications of these losses so ill let people that gave 17 million pound worry about it. I appreciate thats not everyones take. Maybe i just find money talk boring compared to the actual football :greengrin

Oh it is, I'd far rather be gnashing my teeth about how we can't win a game than over financials.

I do the same with financial stuff in the news, relatively speaking there's **** all I can do about it so why get agitated?

With Hibs it's different, it's like hearing that your parents are in massive debt that you didn't know they had. There's not much you can do to help but it's still concerning.

[jacomo]

Whilst I agree they’ve made a complete mess of running the club, especially the football side, if they are happy covering these losses it might be wise to keep them sweet for a wee while longer. As yet there is no alternative.


:agree:

The Gordons seem to be standing behind the club, which is welcome, as well as good and proper.

Best case scenario is that the shock of losing this much cash sees them correct their ways and put a proper plan in place, with competent people making the decisions.

[Col2]

No, it’s not.

STF came in and saved us from Wallace Mercer. In the 30 years after that, we couldn’t have been in safer hands. Unless you think Hibs were under more threat from STFs ownership, then it’s absolutely correct.

Who, or what, has posed a bigger threat to Hibs over that period?

Some of the bedwetting is off the scale. Nobody likes the loss but it’s also been covered by the owners and we have assets c£25-30m and zero debt. Despite the high costs (which need to come down). Yes it’s crap but hardly the dark days of before.

[tamig]

No, it’s not.

STF came in and saved us from Wallace Mercer. In the 30 years after that, we couldn’t have been in safer hands. Unless you think Hibs were under more threat from STFs ownership, then it’s absolutely correct.

Who, or what, has posed a bigger threat to Hibs over that period?

FFS, you really do love a factually accurate but sunsational headline. It might be accurate but its sensationalist tosh. To compare the Gordons to that horrible character is disgraceful. There is no comparison.

[Since452]

What happend with Mercer is, and always will be a very sensitive subject with Hibs fans. It's in the back of all the minds of those of us who were around then. This situation is different. The Gordon's might be hopeless at running a football club but they're covering these losses. The overriding feeling for me is frustration that if they can cover millions of losses then they could have put in millions from a position of strength and made us a real force on the park after finishing 3rd. A complete wasted opportunity and shocking mismanagement over the last 5 or so years.

[Col2]

If you don’t think making losses of nearly 20m over a three year period with owners who clearly don’t have a ****ing clue what they’re doing isn’t a dangerous position to be in then crack on :aok:

ALL of the losses have been funded by the owners. Zero debt.

It’s not a great position cost wise but while they continue to absorb the losses we are no worse of financially.

[Paulie Walnuts]

FFS, you really do love a factually accurate but sunsational headline. It might be accurate but its sensationalist tosh. To compare the Gordons to that horrible character is disgraceful. There is no comparison.

Aye, god forbid someone posts something factually accurate.

Who compared them?

I said since Mercer. Not as big a threat as Mercer.

[ShadesLongThrow]

The most telling sentence for me in the Annual Report is this:

The financial results of the 2023/24 season are of course disappointing, and the cumulative results over the previous three seasons have varied from the historic performance of the Club. Although strong revenue was generated throughout the period, the Club accepts that a poor player recruitment strategy hindered sporting objectives and in turn financial performance.

That is Ian Gordon admitting that his dabbling in player recruitment was almost wholly responsible for the sorry state of finances. It must have taken some balls to sign off on that statement and is perhaps the first indication that he realises this isn’t for him (and hopefully will want to sell).

[CapitalGreen]

£2.8m in 1998 is £5.3m now. In 2 of the last 3 years we’ve made losses that have blown that out the water.

Relative to our income not relative to inflation.

[weecounty hibby]

What happend with Mercer is, and always will be a very sensitive subject with Hibs fans. It's in the back of all the minds of those of us who were around then. This situation is different. The Gordon's might be hopeless at running a football club but they're covering these losses. The overriding feeling for me is frustration that if they can cover millions of losses then they could have put in millions from a position of strength and made us a real force on the park after finishing 3rd. A complete wasted opportunity and shocking mismanagement over the last 5 or so years.

I agree with this. When Anderson and FoH give the tarts about £6m a year we have folk here dreaming about that. When the Gordon family cover 20m in the last three years it is a disaster. Its not great and hopefully we are already seeing a better run Hibs with Kensell away and no last minute panic buying of Harry McKirdy type players. We have also invested heavily in the stadium where ithers still need to do so. This is not meant to be a defence of anything that has happened over the last few years.

[hibsbollah]

Kensell is away now, thankfully.

And if Kit Gordon wants to protect her family and the inheritances of her nearest and dearest, she needs to tell her son to get on the first flight back to the States and stay the **** away from Hibs.

I think you need to try a bit harder to avoid accusations of threatening people. Im sure thats not your intention.

[gbhibby]

We have experienced under STF/Petrie the same loss to turnover ratios. Were we not in a lot of debt under that regime that selling land around the stadium and Selling Scott Brown Thomson,Fletcher etc help wipe out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Relative to our income not relative to inflation.

I never mentioned losses relative to income, simply losses.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We have experienced under STF/Petrie the same loss to turnover ratios. Were we not in a lot of debt under that regime that selling land around the stadium and Selling Scott Brown Thomson,Fletcher etc help wipe out.

We built a complete new stadium and training centre under those two without making the losses (or even coming close), relative to inflation, we are under the Gordon’s.

They built a complete stadium and training centre with lesser losses than the Gordon’s have managed whilst putting in big tvs and redecorating hospitality suites. It’s not even close who’s made a bigger mess.

[RMQ1967]

ALL of the losses have been funded by the owners. Zero debt.

It’s not a great position cost wise but while they continue to absorb the losses we are no worse of financially.

Exactly - I don't know why people are getting themselves in such a froth.
We basically owe the money to ourselves 😁

[CapitalGreen]

I never mentioned losses relative to income, simply losses.

Yes, it was me that mentioned relative to income because comparing losses over time without any context is meaningless.

[DarlingtonHibee]

He was part of those major decisions as a board member and he was also responsible for the day-to-day running of the club as CEO.

He’s not the only one to blame, the Gordon’s get a huge chunk of the blame as well, they’re also ****ing useless. He’s the main one to blame though. He’s also a lying prick.

You must be delighted, something to complain about.


Usual suspects....

[Stairway 2 7]

We built a complete new stadium and training centre under those two without making the losses, relative to inflation, we are under the Gordon’s.

They built a complete stadium and training centre with lesser losses than the Gordon’s have managed whilst putting in big tvs and redecorating hospitality suites. It’s not even close who’s made a bigger mess.

Difference is debt was building up before and this year we no debt. It's obviously been run terribly but the Gordon’s have cancelled a hell of a lot of debt. The problem will be if they get fed up. In saying that a club with almost £30 million in assets, 11k season tickets and zero debt would get snapped up easily if they do call it a day

[Paulie Walnuts]

You must be delighted, something to complain about.


Usual suspects....

Ah, the greatest business mind in Darlington is back. Remind us again how we about how successful a business man you are and how we should be careful what we wish for :aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

Exactly - I don't know why people are getting themselves in such a froth.
We basically owe the money to ourselves 😁

We don't owe any money to anyone, bar a small £1 mil covid loan with no interest

[jacomo]

I agree with this. When Anderson and FoH give the tarts about £6m a year we have folk here dreaming about that. When the Gordon family cover 20m in the last three years it is a disaster. Its not great and hopefully we are already seeing a better run Hibs with Kensell away and no last minute panic buying of Harry McKirdy type players. We have also invested heavily in the stadium where ithers still need to do so. This is not meant to be a defence of anything that has happened over the last few years.


The Hearts are a basket case really and the whole show could collapse very quickly if their benefactors move on. It's not a good place to be.

This century's Hibernian has been built on much more solid foundations and it's disappointing to see money thrown in to cover big losses on bad decisions, rather than spent in a way that would have made us better.

The Gordons are very wealthy but they're not billionaires, and cannot sustain these losses indefinitely.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Ah, the greatest business mind in Darlington is back. Remind us again how we about how successful a business man you are and how we should be careful what we wish for :aok:

You're the one that continually criticise the current owners and calling people lying pricks.

What is your plan moving forward ?

I'm very comfortable with the current situation,and owners..

[Chorley Hibee]

Exactly - I don't know why people are getting themselves in such a froth.
We basically owe the money to ourselves 😁

I was waiting on the "owe it to ourselves" line. 🙈🤣

[Ray_]

£2.8m in 1998 is £5.3m now. In 2 of the last 3 years we’ve made losses that have blown that out the water.

Hibs had a debt of about 22M in the early 00's, this was exasperated by the time it took Rod Petrie to learn the unique role, involving football. He continued to make mistakes, an obvious one being the decision not to backdate the pay rise within the new contract for Derek Riordan, to when it had been promised, meaning we only got 150k for him, which was less than a tenth of his value.

Before Kenny Miller was sold, the noise coming out of Easter Road, was that our debt was covered, with Tom Farmer having sold his company to Ford, there seemed little concern. The next thing we were told was that Miller was being sold for 2M and we had all this debt, that the club needed to repay. The Golden Generation quickly became the prime source to start to claw back the deficit & players weren't being played, due to the terms within their contracts, rather than their football ability. Miller spent a year in Rangers reserves and was then sold for 50% more than we got for him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You're the one that continually criticise the current owners and calling people lying pricks.

What is your plan moving forward ?

I'm very comfortable with the current situation,and owners..

One can only wonder why anyone would criticise the current owners after constant sporting failure and losing £17.5m in three years. :faf:

Ben Kensell claimed this years accounts would be much improved on last years. They are infact almost twice as bad as last years and he’s conveniently jumped ship days before they’re released. Sounds like a lying prick to me.

Why would I have a plan? I don’t own the club. Cue your absolutely hilarious shout of “well if you don’t have £30m to buy the club then you don’t get an opinion” from last time :faf:

[DarlingtonHibee]

One can only wonder why anyone would criticise the current owners after constant sporting failure and losing £17.5m in three years. :faf:

Ben Kensell claimed this years accounts would be much improved on last years. They are infact almost twice as bad as last years and he’s conveniently jumped ship days before they’re released. Sounds like a lying prick to me.

Why would I have a plan? I don’t own the club. Cue your absolutely hilarious shout of “well if you don’t have £30m to buy the club then you don’t get an opinion” from last time :faf:

Exactly, you don't have any solution.

[Jones28]

Exactly, you don't have any solution.

Colour me shocked that a Hibs fan doesn't have a solution to a financial problem, something we have no control over.

It's a ridiculous notion to suggest supporters are to come up with ideas in this scenario.

But you know that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Exactly, you don't have any solution.

I’ve got just the solution. Get the incompetent Gordon’s to ****.

[Chorley Hibee]

Exactly, you don't have any solution.

It's not for the support to have a solution.

It's for the incompetent ********s running the club to have an idea what they're doing.

They're failing miserably.

[Hibernia&Alba]

My initial thought at the headline figure was “****, that’s a fortune for us”. I’m not going to panic until CWG comes on and tells us we are doomed. High heid yins asleep at the wheel, what the hell have they been doing?

[Iain G]

I’ve got just the solution. Get the incompetent Gordon’s to ****.

Well, why don't you go buy them out then and show us how it's done 😁🤣

[Iain G]

It's not for the support to have a solution.

It's for the incompetent ********s running the club to have an idea what they're doing.

They're failing miserably.

No, they were failing and made mistakes. Plenty of positives that they have learned and we are on a much better path with BK having an active part of that process.

And under SDG we are on an upward trajectory.

And we should get around £20m for Vente 😁

[NAE NOOKIE]

When Ron Gordon took over his personal wealth was reported as around $75,000,000 ....... If you look at what he and his surviving family have put into Hibs since then and now talking about covering a loss of £7,000,000 I'm at a loss to see how continuing to run Hibs in this fashion is anything other than insanity .... the family must be close to having lost a quarter of it's wealth in little more than 5 and a half years. That's on the assumption that they have no other source of income other than the money RG left and interest on whatever they have left of it in the bank.

As for folk waiting for the BKs to ride to the rescue. For all their seemingly successful ownership of AFC Bournemouth as of 22/23 the club sat with debts of £136,000,000 or so and has been kept financially stable ( at least in the insane financial context of the EPL ) with an interest free loan of £115,000,000 from it's parent company .... that loan is therefor a debt on the club's books, not a gift from the BKs and if they walk away that debt will still be on the club's books, unless they forgive it ( which is not how folk become, or remain, billionaires ) or a new owner pays it back as part of buying the club from them, which if you include what Foley paid in the first place would mean a buyer would have to come up something north of £200,000,000 just to buy the club, before putting any money into improving or sustaining it.

In conclusion:

A) If the Gordon's don't want to end up cursing the day Ron ever uttered the words 'Hibernian football club' they would be as well looking to sell up now.

B) The Black Knights and Bill Foley as overall owners sounds to me like it has just as much chance of utterly ruining this club financially as anything the Gordon's could manage, no matter how much relative 'success' they might manage on the pitch.

[Tambo]

That's a huge loss and just shows the way the club has been ran, fair enough if Ian is willing to just write it off but not something that can be sustainable every season.

[Chorley Hibee]

No, they were failing and made mistakes. Plenty of positives that they have learned and we are on a much better path with BK having an active part of that process.

And under SDG we are on an upward trajectory.

And we should get around £20m for Vente 😁

We keep trying to delude ourselves that their ownership will eventually bare fruit.

I don't see it, all I see is increasingly desperate attempts to cover their latest ****-up.

Remember, we were all assured this year would see a drastic improvement.

It was a blatant lie!

I hope there is something in the pipeline that will see the eventual removal of the Gordon family from our club.

[RMQ1967]

We don't owe any money to anyone, bar a small £1 mil covid loan with no interest

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We keep trying to deluded ourselves that their ownership will eventually bare fruit.

I don't see it, all I see is increasingly desperate attempts to cover their latest ****-up.

Remember, we were all assured this year would see a drastic improvement.

It was a blatant lie!

I hope there is something in the pipeline that will see the eventual removal of the Gordon family from our club.

It’s bizarre. No matter how much we watch them make an arse of everything we’re repeatedly told they’re learning, getting better, improving etc when it’s clear as day they’re not.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

Genuine question - what positives?

[blackpoolhibs]

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

Which is?:confused:

[Hibs90]

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

Ah yes, the positives...

Like what?

[Gordy M]

When Ron Gordon took over his personal wealth was reported as around $75,000,000 ....... If you look at what he and his surviving family have put into Hibs since then and now talking about covering a loss of £7,000,000 I'm at a loss to see how continuing to run Hibs in this fashion is anything other than insanity .... the family must be close to having lost a quarter of it's wealth in little more than 5 and a half years. That's on the assumption that they have no other source of income other than the money RG left and interest on whatever they have left of it in the bank.

As for folk waiting for the BKs to ride to the rescue. For all their seemingly successful ownership of AFC Bournemouth as of 22/23 the club sat with debts of £136,000,000 or so and has been kept financially stable ( at least in the insane financial context of the EPL ) with an interest free loan of £115,000,000 from it's parent company .... that loan is therefor a debt on the club's books, not a gift from the BKs and if they walk away that debt will still be on the club's books, unless they forgive it ( which is not how folk become, or remain, billionaires ) or a new owner pays it back as part of buying the club from them, which if you include what Foley paid in the first place would mean a buyer would have to come up something north of £200,000,000 just to buy the club, before putting any money into improving or sustaining it.

In conclusion:

A) If the Gordon's don't want to end up cursing the day Ron ever uttered the words 'Hibernian football club' they would be as well looking to sell up now.

B) The Black Knights and Bill Foley as overall owners sounds to me like it has just as much chance of utterly ruining this club financially as anything the Gordon's could manage, no matter how much relative 'success' they might manage on the pitch.
Im no financial expert, but the Gordons do own the vast majority of the club though? So albeit the losses are not sustainable in the long term, if they needed to, or wanted to, they could sell the club and recoup some of what has been spent. Im not sure what the club is worth, or what Ron bought it for, but id imagine its worth more now.

[.Sean.]

Wonder how big arrogant McPherson will try and dress this one up. Remember how lucky we are to have had the Gordon’s and that charlatan Kensell

’Trust the process’ 😂😂😂😂

I’d say let’s get these ***** chased but we are stuck with them.

[Jones28]

The Hearts are a basket case really and the whole show could collapse very quickly if their benefactors move on. It's not a good place to be.

This century's Hibernian has been built on much more solid foundations and it's disappointing to see money thrown in to cover big losses on bad decisions, rather than spent in a way that would have made us better.

The Gordons are very wealthy but they're not billionaires, and cannot sustain these losses indefinitely.

I don't think were really in a position to be throwing accusations of being a basket case at other clubs tbh.

Hearts main benefactor is a very wealthy man but he is a Hearts supporter more to the point. The Gordons have an emotional investment in the club of course, but aren't born and raised Hibs fans. There will be a point at which their money stops, and when that point comes we must be in a far better position.

[DH1875]

The overall wage bill rose from £2.3m to £11.2m Mental

I don't see how it's possible. Not on the 1st team squad anyways. How much do the reserves, youth teams, ladies teams make up of the wage bill.

[Gordy M]

I don't think were really in a position to be throwing accusations of being a basket case at other clubs tbh.

Hearts main benefactor is a very wealthy man but he is a Hearts supporter more to the point. The Gordons have an emotional investment in the club of course, but aren't born and raised Hibs fans. There will be a point at which their money stops, and when that point comes we must be in a far better position.

But are we not? I really dont know about how accounts work, but we have no debt(apart from covid loan), 2.8 mill in the bank, and the stadium and training ground in their best condition in recent years? Obv the losses cant continue, but are we not in a "good" place as it stands?

[Jones28]

No, they were failing and made mistakes. Plenty of positives that they have learned and we are on a much better path with BK having an active part of that process.

And under SDG we are on an upward trajectory.

And we should get around £20m for Vente 😁

An upward trajectory that is 4 games away from a tailspin. The league is so tight right now, any run of less than decent results will undo all the positives from the last couple of months.

If we get 3rd this season then everyone will get praised. However we have a lot of football left to play with a squad that has a strong starting 11 but little depth of quality.

I'm delighted with how things have been on the pitch recently but it could unravel really quickly.

[ALF TUPPER]

Astonishing figures.

Perhaps time to try and get Leeann back along the M8

[TimeForHeroes]

Bless, you just want to transfer the blame. We are not blameless; we wanted these people sacked, which is costly. We need to take responsibility for our actions and own them, as it costs the club. Luckily, the Gordons are paying, as we would struggle; they have funded signings and increased wages to attract better-iber players.

That's one way of looking at it.

[Jones28]

But are we not? I really dont know about how accounts work, but we have no debt(apart from covid loan), 2.8 mill in the bank, and the stadium and training ground in their best condition in recent years? Obv the losses cant continue, but are we not in a "good" place as it stands?

No, because if they stop supporting the losses these losses turn into either drastic, deep cost cutting exercises or replacing the Gordons money with money from the Bank - which is debt.

The losses are not good, we are fortunate they are covered but for how long can this continue?

[Jones28]

I don't see how it's possible. Not on the 1st team squad anyways. How much do the reserves, youth teams, ladies teams make up of the wage bill.

It didn't increase from £2.3m, it increased BY £2.3m. Its a typo.

[Iain G]

An upward trajectory that is 4 games away from a tailspin. The league is so tight right now, any run of less than decent results will undo all the positives from the last couple of months.

If we get 3rd this season then everyone will get praised. However we have a lot of football left to play with a squad that has a strong starting 11 but little depth of quality.

I'm delighted with how things have been on the pitch recently but it could unravel really quickly.

Am being very glass full to the brim and running over that we will get top 6 and push on for 3rd.

[Jones28]

Astonishing figures.

Perhaps time to try and get Leeann back along the M8

Or someone from the multi-billion pound sporting enterprise that has a 25% stake in Hibs.

LD won't come back. And nor should she.

[Gordy M]

No, because if they stop supporting the losses these losses turn into either drastic, deep cost cutting exercises or replacing the Gordons money with money from the Bank - which is debt.

The losses are not good, we are fortunate they are covered but for how long can this continue?
No they cant go on......but as it stands, as in right now?

[Jones28]

Am being very glass full to the brim and running over that we will get top 6 and push on for 3rd.

I admire your optimism, and FWIW I think we can too.

[Iain G]

We keep trying to delude ourselves that their ownership will eventually bare fruit.

I don't see it, all I see is increasingly desperate attempts to cover their latest ****-up.

Remember, we were all assured this year would see a drastic improvement.

It was a blatant lie!

I hope there is something in the pipeline that will see the eventual removal of the Gordon family from our club.

Am not feeling particularly delusional, I understand the current situation financially amd football wise, fully agree the Gordons haven't got it right or got the balance right at all in the past few years, but this feels like it is actual progress.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I think you need to try a bit harder to avoid accusations of threatening people. Im sure thats not your intention.

Done it again haven’t I? 😂🤦🏼*♂️

Absolutely not my intention to wish physical harm on him, I’m not a monster.

[Not So Young]

:agree:

The Gordons seem to be standing behind the club, which is welcome, as well as good and proper.

Best case scenario is that the shock of losing this much cash sees them correct their ways and put a proper plan in place, with competent people making the decisions.


Agreed

[we are hibs]

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

The usual suspects eh.


The truth is there is a group of folk on here and social media who, if were to go into administration tomorrow; would perform gold medal winning mental gymnastics to try and absolve the Gordons (and latterly Kensell) of any blame. You have to question their motives..

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[Northernhibee]

One can only wonder why anyone would criticise the current owners after constant sporting failure and losing £17.5m in three years. :faf:

Ben Kensell claimed this years accounts would be much improved on last years. They are infact almost twice as bad as last years and he’s conveniently jumped ship days before they’re released. Sounds like a lying prick to me.

Why would I have a plan? I don’t own the club. Cue your absolutely hilarious shout of “well if you don’t have £30m to buy the club then you don’t get an opinion” from last time :faf:
Mind boggling how people will defend losses that size in such a short time.

[NC1875]

Remember all the people on here defending Kensell last week 🤣🤣

Absolute charlatan and a prick to boot.

[Ribs1875]

We due a cup final win this season to cover costs.

[overdrive]

At risk of sounding like I'm defending the Gordons - I'm certainly not - does the £3m of stadium expenditure contribute to the overall loss number?

If it does, when you add that figure, which is not an annual cost, plus the £1m in lost revenue from the company that went bust it looks less worrying.

Don't get me wrong, it's not sustainable to lose £3m a year for a club of our size, but that £4m in CAP EX and lost revenue makes up a very significant chunk of the money.

What I'm more confused about is how we've gone and employed an extra 33 staff? Who and why? Is it to do with hospitality?

As another poster said earlier, it would normally be capitalised (would appear on the balance sheet) so wouldn't directly impact the loss aside from any depreciation charged. I think that's probably what's happened but I suspect the full £3m isn't in this year's accounts as there isn't £3m of tangible fixed asset additions in the balance sheet. It is possibly straddling two (maybe three) financial years. Can't really tell from the accounts or without knowing when work started and finished. It certainly looked like there was work still ongoing on the hospitality and safe standing in pre-season which would be the new financial year. Although the new floodlights were installed last season I don't think we saw the "disco" element of them until this season so that might have been an add-on. There's also nothing obvious in the detailed P&L account that would point to it being charged in full there.

On the staff, hospitality is outsourced so I don't think its to do with that.

[we are hibs]

The thing is, you have had to make up a scenario to get your view of the ‘truth’ across.
Have to question your motives.The administration part is. The rest isn't. As has been proven countless times.

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[Exuberance1875]

Watch the strips next season be dangerously close to £100

[Jones28]

As another poster said earlier, it would normally be capitalised (would appear on the balance sheet) so wouldn't directly impact the loss aside from any depreciation charged. I think that's probably what's happened but I suspect the full £3m isn't in this year's accounts as there isn't £3m of tangible fixed asset additions in the balance sheet. It is possibly straddling two (maybe three) financial years. Can't really tell from the accounts or without knowing when work started and finished. It certainly looked like there was work still ongoing on the hospitality and safe standing in pre-season which would be the new financial year. Although the new floodlights were installed last season I don't think we saw the "disco" element of them until this season so that might have been an add-on. There's also nothing obvious in the detailed P&L account that would point to it being charged in full there.

On the staff, hospitality is outsourced so I don't think its to do with that.

Thanks - so in leymans terms it isn’t accounted for by the losses?

Where the **** have we pulled 33 staff out of? That’s a hell of an increase and I don’t remember the club going on some sort of mad recruitment drive.

This feels very Sunderland when they got relegated and the documentary showed us dozens of staff behind the scenes.

[Hibees1973]

If Ian Gordon has any spare time he ought to start kissing David Gray's ar*e.

Can you imagine the stooshie if we were still in the bottom two with these results coming out.

Mind you, we are only 7 points away from the relegation play-off spot so Gray needs to keep this run going so we are safely in the Scottish Premiership next season.

Know some on here are eyeing 3rd but we need so be safe first.

[Callum_62]

Watch the strips next season be dangerously close to £100

Danger danger, high voltage!

[jacomo]

When Ron Gordon took over his personal wealth was reported as around $75,000,000 ....... If you look at what he and his surviving family have put into Hibs since then and now talking about covering a loss of £7,000,000 I'm at a loss to see how continuing to run Hibs in this fashion is anything other than insanity .... the family must be close to having lost a quarter of it's wealth in little more than 5 and a half years. That's on the assumption that they have no other source of income other than the money RG left and interest on whatever they have left of it in the bank.

As for folk waiting for the BKs to ride to the rescue. For all their seemingly successful ownership of AFC Bournemouth as of 22/23 the club sat with debts of £136,000,000 or so and has been kept financially stable ( at least in the insane financial context of the EPL ) with an interest free loan of £115,000,000 from it's parent company .... that loan is therefor a debt on the club's books, not a gift from the BKs and if they walk away that debt will still be on the club's books, unless they forgive it ( which is not how folk become, or remain, billionaires ) or a new owner pays it back as part of buying the club from them, which if you include what Foley paid in the first place would mean a buyer would have to come up something north of £200,000,000 just to buy the club, before putting any money into improving or sustaining it.

In conclusion:

A) If the Gordon's don't want to end up cursing the day Ron ever uttered the words 'Hibernian football club' they would be as well looking to sell up now.

B) The Black Knights and Bill Foley as overall owners sounds to me like it has just as much chance of utterly ruining this club financially as anything the Gordon's could manage, no matter how much relative 'success' they might manage on the pitch.


Reminds me of that old saying about self-made families... the first generation makes the fortune, the second gen spends the fortune, and the third gen loses the fortune.

[RIP]

Remember all the people on here defending Kensell last week 🤣

No.

[overdrive]

Thanks - so in leymans terms it isn’t accounted for by the losses?

Where the **** have we pulled 33 staff out of? That’s a hell of an increase and I don’t remember the club going on some sort of mad recruitment drive.

This feels very Sunderland when they got relegated and the documentary showed us dozens of staff behind the scenes.

Not anywhere near £3m worth anyway.

Actually, on the staff and hospitality, without knowing what the outsourcing contract covers, there may be some in-house staff who might do the admin/marketing/etc. of it but I would doubt that would be that many staff. Also, the new hospitality didn't open in the period of these accounts. The West Stand hospitality has been open for a few years now so even if it was in-house staff, it wouldn't explain an increase this year.

[Donegal Hibby]

If Ian Gordon has any spare time he ought to start kissing David Gray's ar*e.

Can you imagine the stooshie if we were still in the bottom two with these results coming out.

Mind you, we are only 7 points away from the relegation play-off spot so Gray needs to keep this run going so we are safely in the Scottish Premiership next season.

Know some on here are eyeing 3rd but we need so be safe first.

Was Gray not an Ian Gordon appointment that went against what others wanted at the club ?

[Coco Bryce]

Was Gray not an Ian Gordon appointment that went against what others wanted at the club ?

He should still be kissing his arse though.

[Donegal Hibby]

He should still be kissing his arse though.

So it was his appointment then against what others wanted ?

[jeffers]

I don't think were really in a position to be throwing accusations of being a basket case at other clubs tbh.

Hearts main benefactor is a very wealthy man but he is a Hearts supporter more to the point. The Gordons have an emotional investment in the club of course, but aren't born and raised Hibs fans. There will be a point at which their money stops, and when that point comes we must be in a far better position.

James Anderson isn’t a Hearts fan if that’s who you are referring to mate.

[Coco Bryce]

So it was his appointment then against what others wanted ?

What's your point?

[Pagan Hibernia]

James Anderson isn’t a Hearts fan if that’s who you are referring to mate.

Isn't he? :confused:

Why is he propping them up then?

[jeffers]

Isn't he? :confused:

Why is he propping them up then?

Budge, I believe, got him involved. He’s just a generous guy, it’s not just them he puts money into as far as I’m aware.

[TrinityHFC]

The usual suspects eh.


The truth is there is a group of folk on here and social media who, if were to go into administration tomorrow; would perform gold medal winning mental gymnastics to try and absolve the Gordons (and latterly Kensell) of any blame. You have to question their motives..

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The whole point is we aren’t about to go into administration tomorrow or any time soon. The club is in a strong position, despite the losses.

We’ve known the position, still pushed on with investing in the team and we are improving.

We aren’t covering the loss so in itself we don’t have to worry about it.

[ionahibby]

As much as I would like to think the board didn’t sack gray because they had faith in him, I think we know why. They couldn’t afford to is more likely

[Hibees1973]

The whole point is we aren’t about to go into administration tomorrow or any time soon. The club is in a strong position, despite the losses.

We’ve known the position, still pushed on with investing in the team and we are improving.

We aren’t covering the loss so in itself we don’t have to worry about it.

I've worried about the stability at Hibs since the day The Gordons walked through the door.

And they have done nothing yet to change that.

[Alfred E Newman]

Astonishing figures.

Perhaps time to try and get Leeann back along the M8

Or Petrie :offski:

[Hibees1973]

Was Gray not an Ian Gordon appointment that went against what others wanted at the club ?

I've a hunch (you will probably disagree), but when MacKay came on board it was at this point that Ian Gordon may have been advised to take a step back.

It's likely, from what went on before, that Gray was more an appointment by MacKay than Ian Gordon.

[Wilson]

As much as I would like to think the board didn’t sack gray because they had faith in him, I think we know why. They couldn’t afford to is more likely

Bollocks.

[Donegal Hibby]

What's your point?

Point is another poster has said he should be kissing Gray’s arse and I think it’s been his appointment which other shareholders didn’t want , not only has he done that which at the moment appears to have been the right decision but he’s also backed him in signing players .

[HH81]

This likely explains one signing in Jan?

[Northernhibee]

Or Petrie :offski:

I’d take him as long as we still had a football person looking after those decisions. At least he’s the sort of person to question every penny we spend.

[jakeshibs]

'Kin hell, I've read some ***** in my time but this is special.

We wanted them sacked because they were deserving of it. They were not up to the job.

When these guys were appointed they were so remarkably underwhelming I was fearful that I was just losing my passion for the club. Naw, it was them.

Who appointed them?

The now departed Kensall and Ian Gordon. What say did the fans have in these appointments? None. what say did we have in their sackings? None. We had opinions that were shouted from the stands and hammered out on keyboards, but any real power? No.

Easy to dissolve your responsibility, some one else to blame, i was there when fans we wanting them sacked, even majority wanted SDG sacked, same ones blaming the Gordons for all their woes.... som one else fault......not me.....

[TrinityHFC]

This likely explains one signing in Jan?

Not really. We’ve known about the figures and still bought the likes of Bowie, made bids for other players and turned down good money for Youan. This is the point. The Gordons are taking the hit and the club are, sensibly this time, carrying on with trying to invest and improve.

[Hibees1973]

This likely explains one signing in Jan?

Depends on how you look at it.

If Ian Gordon was still at the tiller in the recruitment team, it's likely he would have plundered more of money on some fantasy signings and made the losses even worse.

There seems to have come a point recently when Ian Gordon was 'advised' to take a step back and stop making a complete mess of things.

It seems, up until now, The Gordons are still willing to plug these losses. However, for a club of Hibs stature, it's not they way we should be run. It's not sustainable in the long term.

[jakeshibs]

Hahaha.

If you think that the board sacking managers (no input from the fans in this decision) that the board appointed (no input from the fans in this decision either), at a cost of <5% of this ****show of a loss is the fans fault then crack on Ben. :aok:


So you were not shouting for the managers to be sacked, articles in the evening news, been a season ticket holder for over 30 years, so I know what I see and hear, but least own and take responsibility..

I honestly think you should purchase the club as you have all the answers and are a financial wizard, you would buy better players, bring success on the pitch and ensure its sustainable...... but you would not like the responsibility and would have no one to transfer the blame.

[tamig]

Aye, god forbid someone posts something factually accurate.

Who compared them?

I said since Mercer. Not as big a threat as Mercer.

Mentioning them in the same breath is a disgrace. Always fishing.

[Trinity Hibee]

So you were not shouting for the managers to be sacked, articles in the evening news, been a season ticket holder for over 30 years, so I know what I see and hear, but least own and take responsibility..

I honestly think you should purchase the club as you have all the answers and are a financial wizard, you would buy better players, bring success on the pitch and ensure its sustainable...... but you would not like the responsibility and would have no one to transfer the blame.

😂😂😂😂

If you have any more to drink you’ll miss the game tonight. Drink responsibly folks

[Paulie Walnuts]

So you were not shouting for the managers to be sacked, articles in the evening news, been a season ticket holder for over 30 years, so I know what I see and hear, but least own and take responsibility..

I honestly think you should purchase the club as you have all the answers and are a financial wizard, you would buy better players, bring success on the pitch and ensure its sustainable...... but you would not like the responsibility and would have no one to transfer the blame.

:faf:

Quality.

[judas]

I don’t fully understand our accounts.

Ok. We’ve lost 7.2m so have / are clearly running a deficit.

But how much actual debt do we have and where is it sitting?

My concern is that - if it’s not being covered by the Gordon’s and Foley, the stadium itself could be at risk at some point in the future..

Can anyone who understands the position educate me?

[Donegal Hibby]

I've a hunch (you will probably disagree), but when MacKay came on board it was at this point that Ian Gordon may have been advised to take a step back.

It's likely, from what went on before, that Gray was more an appointment by MacKay than Ian Gordon.

Your right I don’t . Any appointment would go through the owners of the club ( Gordon’s ) unless it was the minority shareholder’s which we know it wasn’t due to it not being what they wanted.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Mentioning them in the same breath is a disgrace. Always fishing.

You mean like your previous post, where you mentioned them in the same breath? :confused:

The fact you’ve got yourself all up to 90 at something which was never suggested is quite something. Nobody, at any point, has suggested they’re the same.

[Alfred E Newman]

I’d take him as long as we still had a football person looking after those decisions. At least he’s the sort of person to question every penny we spend.

STF and Petrie were always accused of penny pinching but they would not have allowed the club to run up a deficit of £7m

[Northernhibee]

STF and Petrie were always accused of penny pinching but they would not have allowed the club to run up a deficit of £7m

Hush now, unless you have the money to purchase the club you’re not allowed to criticise the running of it, apparently.

[7Hero]

You may be correct with this, I'm not an accountant,


He's 100% correct...

[MelbourneHibees]

I don’t fully understand our accounts.

Ok. We’ve lost 7.2m so have / are clearly running a deficit.

But how much actual debt do we have and where is it sitting?

My concern is that - if it’s not being covered by the Gordon’s and Foley, the stadium itself could be at risk at some point in the future..

Can anyone who understands the position educate me?
The Gordons are covering so the club is debt free (except the Covid loan).

[GreenGray]

Find it quite astonishing to see a number of fans willing to put their heads in the sand and say “this is fine, nothing to worry about.”

Or even their response to fans complaining is “What would you do about it?”

The board should thank their lucky stars for David Gray because if results weren’t as good on the pitch the reaction to today’s news would be a whole lot worse.

Are we really convinced that we’ve turned a corner or has Gray just done extraordinary well to turn it around with the group of players?


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[Spike Mandela]

Guess we now know for sure why Kensall is away and why the January window was a non event.

[ionahibby]

Remember the black knight group can’t take over the club further than they already have and they’re up to the maximum percentage as per rules so not sure why folk think they can save the day.

[snedzuk]

Remember the black knight group can’t take over the club further than they already have and they’re up to the maximum percentage as per rules so not sure why folk think they can save the day.

All they need is an ally.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Remember the black knight group can’t take over the club further than they already have and they’re up to the maximum percentage as per rules so not sure why folk think they can save the day.

At this point in time, yes. I fully suspect if they went to the relevant authorities requesting a relaxing of the rules then it would be allowed. The rule won’t be changed without us asking the question though I wouldn’t imagine.

[DarlingtonHibee]

So you were not shouting for the managers to be sacked, articles in the evening news, been a season ticket holder for over 30 years, so I know what I see and hear, but least own and take responsibility..

I honestly think you should purchase the club as you have all the answers and are a financial wizard, you would buy better players, bring success on the pitch and ensure its sustainable...... but you would not like the responsibility and would have no one to transfer the blame.

Good luck waiting for an answer from him 😆 🤣

[snedzuk]

The whole point is we aren’t about to go into administration tomorrow or any time soon. The club is in a strong position, despite the losses.

We’ve known the position, still pushed on with investing in the team and we are improving.

We aren’t covering the loss so in itself we don’t have to worry about it.

Let's boost the losses then and get some quality players in.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Good luck waiting for an answer from him 😆 🤣

Do you always post from two accounts and quote the other one to make it look like at least one person thinks you’re talking sense?

Two posters who don’t often post but conveniently always hop on the same threads as each other at the same time to make the same points in the same posting style. Classic.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Do you always post from two accounts and quote the other one to make it look like at least one person thinks you’re talking sense?

One account. Aren't you going to reply to various post's to you?

[Paulie Walnuts]

One account. Aren't you going to reply to various post's to you?

Of course you’ve only one account :aok:

[DarlingtonHibee]

Of course you’ve only one account :aok:

Admins will confirm this if you want.

How about you reply to various questions that have been asked of you?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Admins will confirm this if you want.

How about you reply to various questions that have been asked of you?

What would you like to know?

[HoboHarry]

Admins will confirm this if you want.

How about you reply to various questions that have been asked of you?
:troll:

[hibsbollah]

What would you like to know?

There is some monumental crayon dropping and baby tantrums going on tonight. Why not just enjoy the game?

[Iain G]

There is some monumental crayon dropping and baby tantrums going on tonight. Why not just enjoy the game?

If only we had a cup game to keep these folks distracted... 😁

[ChuckNor]

Some absolutely crazy stuff in these accounts btw. Why did the commercial and admin staff go up to 77 from 44? An increase of 33 staff is a fairly substantial investment for a football club, no?

[Iain G]

Some absolutely crazy stuff in these accounts btw. Why did the commercial and admin staff go up to 77 from 44? An increase of 33 staff is a fairly substantial investment for a football club, no?

Staff for the new corporate offering?

[WhileTheChief..]

I absolutely get that. Doesn't look great on the surface but as you say we're not saddled with any debt.

Just another reason for the usual suspects to give the Gordons a kicking and ignore all the positives they've brought to the club.

A severe lesson in football club management for them but I'm confident they'll have learned from it.

We're in a great position despite these losses - time to press on & hope the BK influence brings some success.

By usual suspects do you also mean the same handful of posters that criticise the rest of us for telling it as it is?

There’s only a few on here, but man they’re vocal is their non stop defence of crap managers and crap owners.

These people are harming our club, what will it take for you to see it?

[WhileTheChief..]

There is some monumental crayon dropping and baby tantrums going on tonight. Why not just enjoy the game?

Some smart ass will be along to ask you the same instead of having a pop at fans on here……:wink:

[Is It On....]

That really is ****ing horrendous.

**** you Ben Kensell. Useless prick.

He wasn't in charge of recruitment though..

Thankfully BK are now in the building and hopefully setting us up to be run properly..

[matty_f]

When Ron Gordon took over his personal wealth was reported as around $75,000,000 ....... If you look at what he and his surviving family have put into Hibs since then and now talking about covering a loss of £7,000,000 I'm at a loss to see how continuing to run Hibs in this fashion is anything other than insanity .... the family must be close to having lost a quarter of it's wealth in little more than 5 and a half years. That's on the assumption that they have no other source of income other than the money RG left and interest on whatever they have left of it in the bank.

As for folk waiting for the BKs to ride to the rescue. For all their seemingly successful ownership of AFC Bournemouth as of 22/23 the club sat with debts of £136,000,000 or so and has been kept financially stable ( at least in the insane financial context of the EPL ) with an interest free loan of £115,000,000 from it's parent company .... that loan is therefor a debt on the club's books, not a gift from the BKs and if they walk away that debt will still be on the club's books, unless they forgive it ( which is not how folk become, or remain, billionaires ) or a new owner pays it back as part of buying the club from them, which if you include what Foley paid in the first place would mean a buyer would have to come up something north of £200,000,000 just to buy the club, before putting any money into improving or sustaining it.

In conclusion:

A) If the Gordon's don't want to end up cursing the day Ron ever uttered the words 'Hibernian football club' they would be as well looking to sell up now.

B) The Black Knights and Bill Foley as overall owners sounds to me like it has just as much chance of utterly ruining this club financially as anything the Gordon's could manage, no matter how much relative 'success' they might manage on the pitch.

They have multiple businesses, they’ll not be in any bother.

[neil7908]

Kensall may go down, alongside Butcher, as one of the worst appointments by any Hibs board ever.

A total charlatan that has taken millions in wages, whilst presiding over outrageous spending that didn't even give us a glimmer of success on the park.

I was sceptical about the Black Knights when they first came onto the scene, and don't want to be part of any footballing group. But the Gordon's have been terrible for the club. And BK has shown they can run football teams.

As it stands we can't keep indulging the Gordon's attempts to learn how to run a football club.

[dp00]

Who went bust owing us over a million pound ?


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[scoopyboy]

If the Gordons are covering the losses what’s the problem?😁

[hibsbollah]

If the Gordons are covering the losses what’s the problem?😁

It would actually be more concerning if they made a PROFIT.

(Damn Gordons, profiting from our loyalty :grr: )

[Northernhibee]

If the Gordons are covering the losses what’s the problem?😁

Because if they choose to stop and we’re losing money to the tune of millions a year, we’re in a very big pickle.

[TrinityHFC]

Because if they choose to stop and we’re losing money to the tune of millions a year, we’re in a very big pickle.

So worry about it whenever that looks likely to happen. Worth noting that they also decided to spend the money knowing they were losing it.

[Northernhibee]

So worry about it whenever that looks likely to happen. Worth noting that they also decided to spend the money knowing they were losing it.

It’s much better we stop losing millions of pounds a year.

They don’t have an infinite pool of money, and it also puts them in a position of power if them withdrawing that convering of such a large shortfall puts us into deep trouble.

I can see from some posts on here how Kickback ended up with “don’t worry, we owe it to ourselves” style posts. No business can sustain losing millions year on year on year.

[scoopyboy]

It’s much better we stop losing millions of pounds a year.

They don’t have an infinite pool of money, and it also puts them in a position of power if them withdrawing that convering of such a large shortfall puts us into deep trouble.

I can see from some posts on here how Kickback ended up with “don’t worry, we owe it to ourselves” style posts. No business can sustain losing millions year on year on year.

Have you considered the possibility they might have thought to themselves its not a good idea?

[Northernhibee]

Have you considered the possibility they might have thought to themselves its not a good idea?

I’d be utterly alarmed if they haven’t.

[scoopyboy]

I’d be utterly alarmed if they haven’t.

If they cover the losses and have learnt a lesson then it may not be that damaging.

I have no doubt whatsoever the money spent on hospitality will be recovered and then show a profit, all areas are excellent. The money spent on the Famous Five wasn't just hospitality, it had been neglected by the previous regime so badly it was out of use and structurally that had to be sorted

[neil7908]

If they cover the losses and have learnt a lesson then it may not be that damaging.

I have no doubt whatsoever the money spent on hospitality will be recovered and then show a profit, all areas are excellent. The money spent on the Famous Five wasn't just hospitality, it had been neglected by the previous regime so badly it was out of use and structurally that had to be sorted

The problem is that they've been "learning lessons" for 5 years now.

Owners will always make mistakes but it's getting a bit tiring to hear time and time again how our owners are crap at what they do and just need more time.

And this is not just about the financial loss. They haven't bought success, they've bought mediocrity.

[007]

It’s much better we stop losing millions of pounds a year.

They don’t have an infinite pool of money, and it also puts them in a position of power if them withdrawing that convering of such a large shortfall puts us into deep trouble.

I can see from some posts on here how Kickback ended up with “don’t worry, we owe it to ourselves” style posts. No business can sustain losing millions year on year on year.

What does that bit mean?

[PHeffernan]

If they cover the losses and have learnt a lesson then it may not be that damaging.

I have no doubt whatsoever the money spent on hospitality will be recovered and then show a profit, all areas are excellent. The money spent on the Famous Five wasn't just hospitality, it had been neglected by the previous regime so badly it was out of use and structurally that had to be sorted

Like you, I think it will all come out in the wash.

No infrastructure projects this summer after 3 million spent last summer.
Lots of income coming through for hospitality and events held in the Famous Five suite going forward.

The million quid sponsor loss isn't a real loss (if that's what it is), just a sponsor that didn't come through with the money they signed up to hand over.

Then there was the senior players that were doing nothing on the pitch for circa 200k a year wages, McKirdy, Henderson, Amos, Kenneh. In less than 4 months only Tavares of the expensive moneyball experiment could be left. A million quid a year saving on them alone.

Youan and Vente have less than 16 months left on their contracts so will be sold in the summer.
2.5 million quid in for the two is realistic.

Looking at all the permanent signings from last summer. All the ones signed on multi year deals look like good signings. A remarkable hit rate by Mackay along with moving on players making no positive impression.

If Hibs can get a CEO for 160k we would save 160k a year on what Kensall was walking out with.

David Gray is doing a great job for Hibs so will be our manager next season so no need to expensively pay off an expensive management and coaching team. No idea how much that will save next season but lets just say 500k.

Then there is Boyler who is reputedly on 7,500 quid a week. I have no idea if this is right.
He is 32 in April. We hold a years option on him but it needs to be renegotiated to no more than 5.5k a week which would save us another 100k next season.

We need to sign quality rather than quantity in the summer and the slack in the back up player numbers needs to be picked up by young players like Molotnikov, Megwa and the MacIntyre brothers who won't be on big wages. Simply by not having masses of senior players sitting about the place as we have had for the last few years will save us a lot of wasted money.

In essense I think we are actually coming out the end of the troubled years both on field and financially.
Hibs have noticably been getting their house in order over the last 9 months as regards player recruitment and that work will be all but completed on May 31st. Hopefully Garvan Stewart can help Mackay keep up his very good record for permanent player recruitment.

[Iain G]

Like you, I think it will all come out in the wash.

No infrastructure projects this summer after 3 million spent last summer.
Lots of income coming through for hospitality and events held in the Famous Five suite going forward.

The million quid sponsor loss isn't a real loss (if that's what it is), just a sponsor that didn't come through with the money they signed up to hand over.

Then there was the senior players that were doing nothing on the pitch for circa 200k a year wages, McKirdy, Henderson, Amos, Kenneh. In less than 4 months only Tavares of the expensive moneyball experiment could be left. A million quid a year saving on them alone.

Youan and Vente have less than 16 months left on their contracts so will be sold in the summer.
2.5 million quid in for the two is realistic.

Looking at all the permanent signings from last summer. All the ones signed on multi year deals look like good signings. A remarkable hit rate by Mackay along with moving on players making no positive impression.

If Hibs can get a CEO for 120k plus 40k in bonus, pension etc we would save 160k a year on what Kensall was walking out with.
Then there is Boyler who is reputedly on 7,500 a week. I have no idea if this is right.
He is 32 in April. We hold a years option on him but it need to be renegotiated to no more than 5.5k a week which would save us another 100k next season.

We need to sign quality rather than quantity in the summer and the slack in the back up player numbers needs to be picked up by young players like Molotnikov, Megwa and the MacIntyre brothers who won't be on big wages. Simply by not having masses of senior players sitting about the place as we have had for the last few years will save us a lot of wasted money.

In essense I think we are actually coming out the end of the troubled years both on field and financially.
Hibs have noticably been getting their house in order over the last 10 months as regards player recruitment and that work will be all but completed on May 31st. Hopefully Garvan Stewart can help Mackay keep up his very good record for permanent player recruitment.

I agree wholeheartedly, I know the big headline number is scaring some, and giving the anti Gordon brigade another big stick to whack the club with, but am genuinely feeling like we are finally on a good path. Call me crazy 😁

[Criswell]

y I have read on here that £3million has been spent on Stadium improvements. All I can say is that not a penny appears to have been spent on the South Stand. The exterior now looks shabby and really needs a complete overhaul. The interior is equally blighted with what looks like a multitude of broken seats. I know it's caused by certain away fans, but we still have the responsibility of maintaining the fabric of the stadium.

[matty_f]

I think the accounts reflect dreadful mismanagement of the club but at the same time I can see that they don’t necessarily put us in any bother.

First of all, we know why they’re as bad as they are - predominantly it’s on previous managers’ sporting performance failing to hit targets. We speculated last January to hit a European spot which we were very much in contention for, only to ultimately miss out on even a top six place.

The difference in revenue between finishing fourth and getting into Europe and finishing eighth is huge.

An abysmal recruitment strategy lumbered the club with a huge wage bill - to still be sitting above 70% wages/turnover after being in a position to declare at last year’s AGM that it was projected at 65% shows the impact of losing that revenue.

We also know that the Gordons were happy to sanction and cover the losses before incurring them, given the chat from Ian Gordon a while back - this is different from them bailing the club out and reflects at least a degree of strategic spending was involved, and we know from the fact that we were able to bid good money for players that they would have spent more on the right circumstances.

The debt hasn’t increased year on year, despite the operating loss. This is also significant.


On the flip side, where those things might give comfort, we clearly can’t sustain escalating year on year losses and to lose that amount of money when the turnover is so high is just incompetent. More so when you consider we’ve done it at a time where we’ve attracted major investment from a billionaire partner and ended up with virtually nothing to show for it.

I don’t give the Gordons credit for propping up the spending, they chose to own and run a football club and until they get it right it’s incumbent on them to pay for it. I fully believe they’re well intentioned, but at the same time our financial and sporting performance has progressively worsened under their ownership, and that has to stop before we reach a point where they are unwilling or unable to continue funding their errors.

[jakeshibs]

Yep, we'll still have folk giving us that line.

We're in the worst case scenario with the Gordon family running this clown show.

What utter drivel, on you go and buy the club, you can finance all our aspirations and dreams. The Gordons, as proven, have put more money into the club; They have good intentions; hence, trying to improve all aspects, player budget, stadium, etc, granted success on the park has not happened yet!

If they sell up, there is no fairy who will come in and save the day. BK are not too concerned about us as their project is Bournemouth.

[danhibees1875]

I think the accounts reflect dreadful mismanagement of the club but at the same time I can see that they don’t necessarily put us in any bother.

First of all, we know why they’re as bad as they are - predominantly it’s on previous managers’ sporting performance failing to hit targets. We speculated last January to hit a European spot which we were very much in contention for, only to ultimately miss out on even a top six place.

The difference in revenue between finishing fourth and getting into Europe and finishing eighth is huge.

An abysmal recruitment strategy lumbered the club with a huge wage bill - to still be sitting above 70% wages/turnover after being in a position to declare at last year’s AGM that it was projected at 65% shows the impact of losing that revenue.

We also know that the Gordons were happy to sanction and cover the losses before incurring them, given the chat from Ian Gordon a while back - this is different from them bailing the club out and reflects at least a degree of strategic spending was involved, and we know from the fact that we were able to bid good money for players that they would have spent more on the right circumstances.

The debt hasn’t increased year on year, despite the operating loss. This is also significant.


On the flip side, where those things might give comfort, we clearly can’t sustain escalating year on year losses and to lose that amount of money when the turnover is so high is just incompetent. More so when you consider we’ve done it at a time where we’ve attracted major investment from a billionaire partner and ended up with virtually nothing to show for it.

I don’t give the Gordons credit for propping up the spending, they chose to own and run a football club and until they get it right it’s incumbent on them to pay for it. I fully believe they’re well intentioned, but at the same time our financial and sporting performance has progressively worsened under their ownership, and that has to stop before we reach a point where they are unwilling or unable to continue funding their errors.

Great summary. :agree:

[The Modfather]

What utter drivel, on you go and buy the club, you can finance all our aspirations and dreams. The Gordons, as proven, have put more money into the club; They have good intentions; hence, trying to improve all aspects, player budget, stadium, etc, granted success on the park has not happened yet!

If they sell up, there is no fairy who will come in and save the day. BK are not too concerned about us as their project is Bournemouth.

Your going round threads telling folk to either buy the club themselves or keep their opinion to themselves is trolling and tedious. Were you telling posters calling for Bursic to be replaced to bring their own goalie gloves if they could do better?

We don’t need a fairy, we just need new owners that are actually competent and capable of putting the correct people in the the correct roles and not then interfering to disastrous effect. The mismanagement of bringing the Black Knights on board for little more than wanting their £6m investment and then trying to keep them at arms length is reason enough for a need for new owners.

[Sheffhibee]

I think the accounts reflect dreadful mismanagement of the club but at the same time I can see that they don’t necessarily put us in any bother.

First of all, we know why they’re as bad as they are - predominantly it’s on previous managers’ sporting performance failing to hit targets. We speculated last January to hit a European spot which we were very much in contention for, only to ultimately miss out on even a top six place.

The difference in revenue between finishing fourth and getting into Europe and finishing eighth is huge.

An abysmal recruitment strategy lumbered the club with a huge wage bill - to still be sitting above 70% wages/turnover after being in a position to declare at last year’s AGM that it was projected at 65% shows the impact of losing that revenue.

We also know that the Gordons were happy to sanction and cover the losses before incurring them, given the chat from Ian Gordon a while back - this is different from them bailing the club out and reflects at least a degree of strategic spending was involved, and we know from the fact that we were able to bid good money for players that they would have spent more on the right circumstances.

The debt hasn’t increased year on year, despite the operating loss. This is also significant.


On the flip side, where those things might give comfort, we clearly can’t sustain escalating year on year losses and to lose that amount of money when the turnover is so high is just incompetent. More so when you consider we’ve done it at a time where we’ve attracted major investment from a billionaire partner and ended up with virtually nothing to show for it.

I don’t give the Gordons credit for propping up the spending, they chose to own and run a football club and until they get it right it’s incumbent on them to pay for it. I fully believe they’re well intentioned, but at the same time our financial and sporting performance has progressively worsened under their ownership, and that has to stop before we reach a point where they are unwilling or unable to continue funding their errors.
Spot on Matty,
I think we have an opportunity to undo the mistakes of previous years from here onwards. We're seeing real improvements on the pitch and now we need to get it right at board level

[RMQ1967]

By usual suspects do you also mean the same handful of posters that criticise the rest of us for telling it as it is?

There’s only a few on here, but man they’re vocal is their non stop defence of crap managers and crap owners.

These people are harming our club, what will it take for you to see it?

😂 Come on mate - if they were investing nothing & filling their pockets with our cash then you might have a point.

I don't see many defending crap managers or the people who put them in place. We've had more than our fair share in the past few years but give some credit for picking the current manager & crop of players who do seem to be a step in the right direction.

Not the actions of people who are harming the club.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Your going round threads telling folk to either buy the club themselves or keep their opinion to themselves is trolling and tedious. Were you telling posters calling for Bursic to be replaced to bring their own goalie gloves if they could do better?

We don’t need a fairy, we just need new owners that are actually competent and capable of putting the correct people in the the correct roles and not then interfering to disastrous effect. The mismanagement of bringing the Black Knights on board for little more than wanting their £6m investment and then trying to keep them at arms length is reason enough for a need for new owners.

:agree:

As much as a fairy would be quite good, as you say, competent owners will do for now. The fairy can wait.

[Since90+2]

We're now on our best run in what, 6 or 7 years? We're into the quarters of the Scottish and have a real chance of finishing 3rd. On the park things seem to be going in the right direction, and the footballing people (all appointments by the Gordons) seem to be doing well.

If the Gordons had listened to the majority on here (admittedly myself included) Gray would have been sacked a couple of months back and who knows where we'd be now. I suspect we wouldn't be sitting as high in the league as we are now though, and who knows if we'd beaten Ayr?

It is a bad set of results, but the Gordons are covering that loss from their own pockets. Although it doesn't excuse the loss, there has been capital investment into the stadium which won't be there next year and will start turning a profit.

Overall, the Gordons haven't been great but currently the team on the pitch is performing and they are putting their hands in their own pockets to the tune of 7 million.

Just add a little perspective to some of these comments.

[7Hero]

@matty im in total agreement with you on all points, regards the Recruitment , the increase in staff of 48 numbers, only includes 15 on the player management side.

There has been 33 added to commercial / Admin.

Bear in mind Caterer supplies catering / bar staff, so this will not be included in figures, and BTG was not open in this year, they already had a large workforce outside of the players / managers a question at the AGM is why such a huge addition to the workforce ?

[.Sean.]

Like you, I think it will all come out in the wash.

No infrastructure projects this summer after 3 million spent last summer.
Lots of income coming through for hospitality and events held in the Famous Five suite going forward.

The million quid sponsor loss isn't a real loss (if that's what it is), just a sponsor that didn't come through with the money they signed up to hand over.

Then there was the senior players that were doing nothing on the pitch for circa 200k a year wages, McKirdy, Henderson, Amos, Kenneh. In less than 4 months only Tavares of the expensive moneyball experiment could be left. A million quid a year saving on them alone.

Youan and Vente have less than 16 months left on their contracts so will be sold in the summer.
2.5 million quid in for the two is realistic.

Looking at all the permanent signings from last summer. All the ones signed on multi year deals look like good signings. A remarkable hit rate by Mackay along with moving on players making no positive impression.

If Hibs can get a CEO for 120k plus 40k in bonus, pension etc we would save 160k a year on what Kensall was walking out with.
Then there is Boyler who is reputedly on 7,500 a week. I have no idea if this is right.
He is 32 in April. We hold a years option on him but it need to be renegotiated to no more than 5.5k a week which would save us another 100k next season.

We need to sign quality rather than quantity in the summer and the slack in the back up player numbers needs to be picked up by young players like Molotnikov, Megwa and the MacIntyre brothers who won't be on big wages. Simply by not having masses of senior players sitting about the place as we have had for the last few years will save us a lot of wasted money.

In essense I think we are actually coming out the end of the troubled years both on field and financially.
Hibs have noticably been getting their house in order over the last 10 months as regards player recruitment and that work will be all but completed on May 31st. Hopefully Garvan Stewart can help Mackay keep up his very good record for permanent player recruitment.


I think the accounts reflect dreadful mismanagement of the club but at the same time I can see that they don’t necessarily put us in any bother.

First of all, we know why they’re as bad as they are - predominantly it’s on previous managers’ sporting performance failing to hit targets. We speculated last January to hit a European spot which we were very much in contention for, only to ultimately miss out on even a top six place.

The difference in revenue between finishing fourth and getting into Europe and finishing eighth is huge.

An abysmal recruitment strategy lumbered the club with a huge wage bill - to still be sitting above 70% wages/turnover after being in a position to declare at last year’s AGM that it was projected at 65% shows the impact of losing that revenue.

We also know that the Gordons were happy to sanction and cover the losses before incurring them, given the chat from Ian Gordon a while back - this is different from them bailing the club out and reflects at least a degree of strategic spending was involved, and we know from the fact that we were able to bid good money for players that they would have spent more on the right circumstances.

The debt hasn’t increased year on year, despite the operating loss. This is also significant.


On the flip side, where those things might give comfort, we clearly can’t sustain escalating year on year losses and to lose that amount of money when the turnover is so high is just incompetent. More so when you consider we’ve done it at a time where we’ve attracted major investment from a billionaire partner and ended up with virtually nothing to show for it.

I don’t give the Gordons credit for propping up the spending, they chose to own and run a football club and until they get it right it’s incumbent on them to pay for it. I fully believe they’re well intentioned, but at the same time our financial and sporting performance has progressively worsened under their ownership, and that has to stop before we reach a point where they are unwilling or unable to continue funding their errors.
Two quality, well balanced posts. A modern day Hibs.net rarity :greengrin

Feel a bit better after reading the two of them

[Hibernia&Alba]

Like you, I think it will all come out in the wash.

No infrastructure projects this summer after 3 million spent last summer.
Lots of income coming through for hospitality and events held in the Famous Five suite going forward.

The million quid sponsor loss isn't a real loss (if that's what it is), just a sponsor that didn't come through with the money they signed up to hand over.

Then there was the senior players that were doing nothing on the pitch for circa 200k a year wages, McKirdy, Henderson, Amos, Kenneh. In less than 4 months only Tavares of the expensive moneyball experiment could be left. A million quid a year saving on them alone.

Youan and Vente have less than 16 months left on their contracts so will be sold in the summer.
2.5 million quid in for the two is realistic.

Looking at all the permanent signings from last summer. All the ones signed on multi year deals look like good signings. A remarkable hit rate by Mackay along with moving on players making no positive impression.

If Hibs can get a CEO for 120k plus 40k in bonus, pension etc we would save 160k a year on what Kensall was walking out with.
Then there is Boyler who is reputedly on 7,500 a week. I have no idea if this is right.
He is 32 in April. We hold a years option on him but it need to be renegotiated to no more than 5.5k a week which would save us another 100k next season.

We need to sign quality rather than quantity in the summer and the slack in the back up player numbers needs to be picked up by young players like Molotnikov, Megwa and the MacIntyre brothers who won't be on big wages. Simply by not having masses of senior players sitting about the place as we have had for the last few years will save us a lot of wasted money.

In essense I think we are actually coming out the end of the troubled years both on field and financially.
Hibs have noticably been getting their house in order over the last 10 months as regards player recruitment and that work will be all but completed on May 31st. Hopefully Garvan Stewart can help Mackay keep up his very good record for permanent player recruitment.

I hope everything you say comes true. It would make a huge difference.

[danhibees1875]

I hope everything you say comes true. It would make a huge difference.

I admire its positivity but a lot of it won't, unfortunately.

The £3M infrastructure isn't included in the losses. Infact, the depreciation that will be included is only likely to grow in the next year(s) and then remain high for a few years after.

The sponsorship loss is a real loss. I don't see how it's being considered as anything different. However, it's not something we should expect to see repeated.

I can't see us picking up a CEO for £120k unless we find a Hibs/football fan that's not doing it for the money.

Otherwise, hopefully it's correct in terms of high earners who aren't performing moving on and some big transfer fees coming in.

Note: despite the above opinions I'm of the opinion that these results, whilst a long way from good, are not overly troubling. Focus is on the pitch for me and our current impressive run continuing.

[LaMotta]

We're now on our best run in what, 6 or 7 years? We're into the quarters of the Scottish and have a real chance of finishing 3rd. On the park things seem to be going in the right direction, and the footballing people (all appointments by the Gordons) seem to be doing well.

If the Gordons had listened to the majority on here (admittedly myself included) Gray would have been sacked a couple of months back and who knows where we'd be now. I suspect we wouldn't be sitting as high in the league as we are now though, and who knows if we'd beaten Ayr?

It is a bad set of results, but the Gordons are covering that loss from their own pockets. Although it doesn't excuse the loss, there has been capital investment into the stadium which won't be there next year and will start turning a profit.

Overall, the Gordons haven't been great but currently the team on the pitch is performing and they are putting their hands in their own pockets to the tune of 7 million.

Just add a little perspective to some of these comments.

Good post :agree:

[big gogs]

All they need is an ally.

Could bill foley take over the football side of hibs ,and leave the stadium in the hands of the Gordon family,bill foley has been very vocal recently,regarding David gray and malky McKay.obviously things have improved greatly.would there be a problem with a foley takeover on the football side.

[matty_f]

Could bill foley take over the football side of hibs ,and leave the stadium in the hands of the Gordon family,bill foley has been very vocal recently,regarding David gray and malky McKay.obviously things have improved greatly.would there be a problem with a foley takeover on the football side.

What has Foley said about Gray and Mackay? I haven’t seen any quotes from him at all about them, so it would be good to get the context.

[fiolex1]

Can’t see the Gordon’s keeping on covering the losses. I think we may see new owners very soon.

[Wilson]

Can’t see the Gordon’s keeping on covering the losses. I think we may see new owners very soon.

They won't keep covering losses. You cut your expenditure and lose less. Trade assets (players) and try and turn a profit. That would be the same plan even if they were lining up a sale.

[Donegal Hibby]

Can’t see the Gordon’s keeping on covering the losses. I think we may see new owners very soon.

Which why I think lessons will have been learnt which is why changes have / are being made.. also if they are covering the losses I don’t think they will be going anywhere soon either.

[One Day Soon]

What utter drivel, on you go and buy the club, you can finance all our aspirations and dreams. The Gordons, as proven, have put more money into the club; They have good intentions; hence, trying to improve all aspects, player budget, stadium, etc, granted success on the park has not happened yet!

If they sell up, there is no fairy who will come in and save the day. BK are not too concerned about us as their project is Bournemouth.


You mean like when Sir Tom sold up there was no fairy to come in and save the day? Oh, wait...

[cocteautwin]

i want to hear cocteautriplets' take in this

Despite our accounts being awful, the Jambos have still spent £55m of donated cash and only won 3 asterisked trophies in my lifetime which were all paid for by stolen Lithuanian pension money (their 98 cup win not being paid for until Vlad turned up with the proceeds of his crimes).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[big gogs]

What has Foley said about Gray and Mackay? I haven’t seen any quotes from him at all about them, so it would be good to get the context.

Bill foley passed comment on malky mckays so called racist remark/remarks,foley did not want David gray appointed manager.as I said ,bill foley has been very vocal recently,he also said if we had listened to to him ,the football club would have been in a more acceptable position.that was quoted a few months back.

[One Day Soon]

I think the accounts reflect dreadful mismanagement of the club but at the same time I can see that they don’t necessarily put us in any bother.

First of all, we know why they’re as bad as they are - predominantly it’s on previous managers’ sporting performance failing to hit targets. We speculated last January to hit a European spot which we were very much in contention for, only to ultimately miss out on even a top six place.

The difference in revenue between finishing fourth and getting into Europe and finishing eighth is huge.

An abysmal recruitment strategy lumbered the club with a huge wage bill - to still be sitting above 70% wages/turnover after being in a position to declare at last year’s AGM that it was projected at 65% shows the impact of losing that revenue.

We also know that the Gordons were happy to sanction and cover the losses before incurring them, given the chat from Ian Gordon a while back - this is different from them bailing the club out and reflects at least a degree of strategic spending was involved, and we know from the fact that we were able to bid good money for players that they would have spent more on the right circumstances.

The debt hasn’t increased year on year, despite the operating loss. This is also significant.


On the flip side, where those things might give comfort, we clearly can’t sustain escalating year on year losses and to lose that amount of money when the turnover is so high is just incompetent. More so when you consider we’ve done it at a time where we’ve attracted major investment from a billionaire partner and ended up with virtually nothing to show for it.

I don’t give the Gordons credit for propping up the spending, they chose to own and run a football club and until they get it right it’s incumbent on them to pay for it. I fully believe they’re well intentioned, but at the same time our financial and sporting performance has progressively worsened under their ownership, and that has to stop before we reach a point where they are unwilling or unable to continue funding their errors.


My biggest concern and criticism of the recent wasted years under the Gordons isn't actually the losses, very substantial though they have been, particularly since they are agreeing to cover the costs of their own mistakes for the moment.

What leaves me despairing is the opportunity cost of all the money wasted in losses because of the mismanagement of the club. Essentially, one person's very expensive joy ride through his youth training experience could have achieved so much more had it been properly and prudently invested. Instead, we now have an open agenda of fewer signings related to needing to trim our budget and shift out expensive failure, pretty much explicitly stated by MM recently when commenting on the low activity in the transfer window.

The Gordons took control of the club in July 2019. Over five years later we are now to be treated to a second 'five year plan' for the club - "me and my family will present the new five-year plan and showcase the direction we want to continue to move" (Ian Gordon). That concerns me because we've been seeing what the previous plan resulted in, so Ian Gordon producing his version of it doesn't fill me with confidence. Any institution stands or falls on the quality of leadership - who is leading our club?

The football success we have had recently is for my money down to David Gray and has been achieved in spite of our recent leadership record not because of it. However the summer signings do seem to have been an improvement, albeit that they slowed to a trickle in the winter window. I conclude that we should sleep with one eye open where the quality of the club ownership and leadership is concerned. I don't think they're malign but I do think they have been incompetent and self-indulgent which has the potential to be as bad if not worse if it continues.

[Lago]

My biggest concern and criticism of the recent wasted years under the Gordons isn't actually the losses, very substantial though they have been, particularly since they are agreeing to cover the costs of their own mistakes for the moment.

What leaves me despairing is the opportunity cost of all the money wasted in losses because of the mismanagement of the club. Essentially, one person's very expensive joy ride through his youth training experience could have achieved so much more had it been properly and prudently invested. Instead, we now have an open agenda of fewer signings related to needing to trim our budget and shift out expensive failure, pretty much explicitly stated by MM recently when commenting on the low activity in the transfer window.

The Gordons took control of the club in July 2019. Over five years later we are now to be treated to a second 'five year plan' for the club - "me and my family will present the new five-year plan and showcase the direction we want to continue to move" (Ian Gordon). That concerns me because we've been seeing what the previous plan resulted in, so Ian Gordon producing his version of it doesn't fill me with confidence. Any institution stands or falls on the quality of leadership - who is leading our club?

The football success we have had recently is for my money down to David Gray and has been achieved in spite of our recent leadership record not because of it. However the summer signings do seem to have been an improvement, albeit that they slowed to a trickle in the winter window. I conclude that we should sleep with one eye open where the quality of the club ownership and leadership is concerned. I don't think they're malign but I do think they have been incompetent and self-indulgent which has the potential to be as bad if not worse if it continues.
Nailed it.

[PHeffernan]

I hope everything you say comes true. It would make a huge difference.

I've added to my post with another big saving for Hibs next season from not having to pay off another management and coaching team. David Gray now has the team playing better than the sum of it's parts which is the best a manager can realistically do so another 500k leak plugged for next season.

[matty_f]

Bill foley passed comment on malky mckays so called racist remark/remarks,foley did not want David gray appointed manager.as I said ,bill foley has been very vocal recently,he also said if we had listened to to him ,the football club would have been in a more acceptable position.that was quoted a few months back.

I remember the not listening chat and that he said we would be better off if we did, but he was never specific with what that referred to (in fact it was Hibs that briefed that it was a disagreement on hiring Malky and Gray) but i I don’t recall anything from Foley about them directly.

What did he say about Malky’s racist past?

[PHeffernan]

Could bill foley take over the football side of hibs ,and leave the stadium in the hands of the Gordon family,bill foley has been very vocal recently,regarding David gray and malky McKay.obviously things have improved greatly.would there be a problem with a foley takeover on the football side.

FYI In June 2023 Bournemouth announced losses of an eye watering 56 million quid. In fairness I should say they announced a profit of 44 million this year.

P.S. For a season ticket similar to my 430 quid one at Easter Road I would be paying 633 quid at Bournemouth

If Foley takes over the football side at Hibs we could easily find ourselves with a load of kids hoisted on us from his other clubs to develop for him. Mr 25% has done little for Hibs since getting his foot in the Easter Road door over a year ago.
He's never been at a Hibs game, gave us a few crappy players he didn't want and was wrong about Gray and Mackay. His end game is he wants to take over and make us a part of his empire.

[matty_f]

My biggest concern and criticism of the recent wasted years under the Gordons isn't actually the losses, very substantial though they have been, particularly since they are agreeing to cover the costs of their own mistakes for the moment.

What leaves me despairing is the opportunity cost of all the money wasted in losses because of the mismanagement of the club. Essentially, one person's very expensive joy ride through his youth training experience could have achieved so much more had it been properly and prudently invested. Instead, we now have an open agenda of fewer signings related to needing to trim our budget and shift out expensive failure, pretty much explicitly stated by MM recently when commenting on the low activity in the transfer window.

The Gordons took control of the club in July 2019. Over five years later we are now to be treated to a second 'five year plan' for the club - "me and my family will present the new five-year plan and showcase the direction we want to continue to move" (Ian Gordon). That concerns me because we've been seeing what the previous plan resulted in, so Ian Gordon producing his version of it doesn't fill me with confidence. Any institution stands or falls on the quality of leadership - who is leading our club?

The football success we have had recently is for my money down to David Gray and has been achieved in spite of our recent leadership record not because of it. However the summer signings do seem to have been an improvement, albeit that they slowed to a trickle in the winter window. I conclude that we should sleep with one eye open where the quality of the club ownership and leadership is concerned. I don't think they're malign but I do think they have been incompetent and self-indulgent which has the potential to be as bad if not worse if it continues.

I completely agree with the missed opportunity cost, and I actually think that extends to where we are now under Gray - we’re on the way to doing well and can achieve our start of season targets but we will never know what might have been had we embraced the help and guidance from BKFC earlier.

I do think it’s unfair to not give them credit for things looking up now, Gray, Malky, and the summer recruitment were very clearly their decisions, I don’t think it’s fair to on the one hand blame their decisions for everything that’s gone wrong while on the other hand saying things are going well in spite of their decisions.

I wouldn’t have Ian Gordon anywhere near the decision making at the club, he has neither the skills nor the experience to be the key decision maker at the club imho, and my strong preference would be to see the football operations led by BKFC appointments.

[jeffers]

FYI In June 2023 Bournemouth announced losses of an eye watering 56 million quid. In fairness I should say they announced a profit of 44 million this year.

P.S. For a season ticket similar to my 430 quid one at Easter Road I would be paying 633 quid at Bournemouth

If Foley takes over the football side at Hibs we could easily find ourselves with a load of kids hoisted on us from his other clubs to develop for him.
Mr 25% has done little for Hibs since getting his foot in the Easter Road door over a year ago.
He's never been at a Hibs game and gave us a few crappy players he didn't want and was wrong about Gray and Mackay. His end game is he wants to take over and make us a part of his empire.

:agree: For all their faults, in football terms Hibernian are the Gordon’s priority. We will never be Bill Foley’s or the BKG.

[RMQ1967]

I completely agree with the missed opportunity cost, and I actually think that extends to where we are now under Gray - we’re on the way to doing well and can achieve our start of season targets but we will never know what might have been had we embraced the help and guidance from BKFC earlier.

I do think it’s unfair to not give them credit for things looking up now, Gray, Malky, and the summer recruitment were very clearly their decisions, I don’t think it’s fair to on the one hand blame their decisions for everything that’s gone wrong while on the other hand saying things are going well in spite of their decisions.

I wouldn’t have Ian Gordon anywhere near the decision making at the club, he has neither the skills nor the experience to be the key decision maker at the club imho, and my strong preference would be to see the football operations led by BKFC appointments.

Agreed - got to imagine that they recognised that they were out of their depth in football terms & the appointments look like they're turning the team around.

Some people will refuse to give credit for the positives & I do wonder whether it's much the same group that were cynical or completely against Ron Gordon from the outset.

Possibly the same people who also sniped about Tom Farmers ownership & alleged Ponzi schemes & syphoning off land owned by the club or whatever.

I just hope the Gordons see some success for the effort & money they've invested in our great club.

[matty_f]

Agreed - got to imagine that they recognised that they were out of their depth in football terms & the appointments look like they're turning the team around.

Some people will refuse to give credit for the positives & I do wonder whether it's much the same group that were cynical or completely against Ron Gordon from the outset.

Possibly the same people who also sniped about Tom Farmers ownership & alleged Ponzi schemes & syphoning off land owned by the club or whatever.

I just hope the Gordons see some success for the effort & money they've invested in our great club.

The ideal situation is that everything clicks with the minimum of disruption and then everyone does well out of it.

Ultimately I don’t really care who owns or runs the club so long as they’re competent and we do well. If the Gordons find a way to be successful then I’d be absolutely delighted for them because it means we’re doing well.

On the evidence so far I have real doubts that the Gordons know how to make us successful and while I get Jeffers’ point about Hibs not being BKFC’s priority, I think that is a bit of a red herring.

Foley has loads of business interests and they can’t all be a priority for him. Are the Vegas Knights less of a priority than Bournemouth? No, he wants them both to do well, as he does Auckland, Lorient, and Hibs.

The best outcome for BKFC, as it is with Hibs, is for Hibs to succeed irrespective of what happens with Bournemouth.

[One Day Soon]

Agreed - got to imagine that they recognised that they were out of their depth in football terms & the appointments look like they're turning the team around.

Some people will refuse to give credit for the positives & I do wonder whether it's much the same group that were cynical or completely against Ron Gordon from the outset.

Possibly the same people who also sniped about Tom Farmers ownership & alleged Ponzi schemes & syphoning off land owned by the club or whatever.

I just hope the Gordons see some success for the effort & money they've invested in our great club.


Let me be clear about this. I am not refusing to give credit for positives, I am simply waiting for the season to play out and the next window to close before concluding whether they have gotten lucky or made better decisions.

I am definitively not in "the same group" that was against Ron's arrival. Neither did I snipe about Sir Tom's role or have any truck with Ponzi schemes, land sales etc.

It is perfectly possible to have a critical view of the involvement of the Gordons and what has followed without automatically being part of some conspiracist or paranoid faction. I hope that helps.

[WhileTheChief..]

I agree wholeheartedly, I know the big headline number is scaring some, and giving the anti Gordon brigade another big stick to whack the club with, but am genuinely feeling like we are finally on a good path. Call me crazy 😁

Anti Gordon Brigade????

You're not crazy, just a pain in the ass with these sorts of comments.

Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong aye?

[WhileTheChief..]

😂 Come on mate - if they were investing nothing & filling their pockets with our cash then you might have a point.

I don't see many defending crap managers or the people who put them in place. We've had more than our fair share in the past few years but give some credit for picking the current manager & crop of players who do seem to be a step in the right direction.

Not the actions of people who are harming the club.

Nope, the Gordon's get zero for credit for anything.

They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for. They might get lucky, and it's looking much better now, but that's all on SDG, not the Gordon's or Kensall.

As for the current squad, it's still mostly garbage and went 10+ games without a win. I'm still hoping most of them are shipped out in the summer.

For 5 years there have been posters on here slating those of us who didn't want Maloney, LJ, or the obviously useless Montgomery, as Hibs manager.

We'd never have had SDH as manager if we listened to the guff trotted out by the happy clapping Gordon supporting posters on here.

I've been accused regularly gf having an 'agenda' and against anyone I've criticised on here and it's becoming a right pain in the backside.

Now apparently I've unwittingly joined an 'anti Gordon brigade' without evening knowing such a thing existed!!

[McD]

Anti Gordon Brigade????

You're not crazy, just a pain in the ass with these sorts of comments.

Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong aye?


Does ‘these sorts of comments’ also include things about ‘heads being buried in the sand’, etc? I’ve not seen you calling people pains in the ass for making those comments which are of a similar ilk, only in the opposite direction?


Or is it only people who disagree with you that get called out?

[Since90+2]

Nope, the Gordon's get zero for credit for anything.

They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for. They might get lucky, and it's looking much better now, but that's all on SDG, not the Gordon's or Kensall.

As for the current squad, it's still mostly garbage and went 10+ games without a win. I'm still hoping most of them are shipped out in the summer.

For 5 years there have been posters on here slating those of us who didn't want Maloney, LJ, or the obviously useless Montgomery, as Hibs manager.

We'd never have had SDH as manager if we listened to the guff trotted out by the happy clapping Gordon supporting posters on here.

I've been accused regularly gf having an 'agenda' and against anyone I've criticised on here and it's becoming a right pain in the backside.

Now apparently I've unwittingly joined an 'anti Gordon brigade' without evening knowing such a thing existed!!

Of course they appointed SDG 🤣

Some rubbish getting spouted on this thread but that's probably the topper.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Anti Gordon Brigade????

You're not crazy, just a pain in the ass with these sorts of comments.

Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong aye?

Folk see what they want to see based on who’s posting rather than read what folk are actually saying. I posted on another thread about how well Jordan Smith has done to bounce back from a bad debut and how much of an improvement he’s been on Bursik. Apparently that post showed some folk can never be happy with Hibs and it was filled with negativity. Work that one out.

Someone last night declared my post was factually correct, then somehow started saying that my post was a disgrace and comparing the Gordon’s to Mercer when that comparison was quite clearly never made. Again, work that one out.

[Keith_M]

Anti Gordon Brigade????

You're not crazy, just a pain in the ass with these sorts of comments.

Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong aye?


You can't talk to Ian Gordon like that!


:tsk tsk:

[McD]

Nope, the Gordon's get zero for credit for anything.

They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for. They might get lucky, and it's looking much better now, but that's all on SDG, not the Gordon's or Kensall.

As for the current squad, it's still mostly garbage and went 10+ games without a win. I'm still hoping most of them are shipped out in the summer.

For 5 years there have been posters on here slating those of us who didn't want Maloney, LJ, or the obviously useless Montgomery, as Hibs manager.

We'd never have had SDH as manager if we listened to the guff trotted out by the happy clapping Gordon supporting posters on here.

I've been accused regularly gf having an 'agenda' and against anyone I've criticised on here and it's becoming a right pain in the backside.

Now apparently I've unwittingly joined an 'anti Gordon brigade' without evening knowing such a thing existed!!


They quite literally did appoint David Gray. Even if they didn’t know who else to go for (which is exactly the reason an invitation to apply and an interview process took place), they still had to appoint him.

[A Hi-Bee]

FFS, how many more 5 year plans us auld yins have to take this into serious consideration.
Come on Hibs we can get much better.

[Donegal Hibby]

FYI In June 2023 Bournemouth announced losses of an eye watering 56 million quid. In fairness I should say they announced a profit of 44 million this year.

P.S. For a season ticket similar to my 430 quid one at Easter Road I would be paying 633 quid at Bournemouth

If Foley takes over the football side at Hibs we could easily find ourselves with a load of kids hoisted on us from his other clubs to develop for him. Mr 25% has done little for Hibs since getting his foot in the Easter Road door over a year ago.
He's never been at a Hibs game, gave us a few crappy players he didn't want and was wrong about Gray and Mackay. His end game is he wants to take over and make us a part of his empire.

Bournemouths the priority with him . Where we’d be on the list of his priorities along with numerous other clubs , who knows . If Foley gets full control of us he can do whatever he likes which I don’t think would necessarily be a good thing.

[JohnM1875]

Bill Foley is a successful businessman. If he and BKFC become majority owners of Hibs, whether we’re their ‘main priority’ or not, they’ll want us to be as successful as possible and will fund us to do so.

We might be Gordons main priority, hasn’t stopped us being utter dog-**** under them though, has it?

Honestly, what do folk think BKFC are going to do with us, rename us Bournemouth B and change our strip? There’s zero evidence they want anything but success for the teams they own.

[The Modfather]

Bournemouths the priority with him . Where we’d be on the list of his priorities along with numerous other clubs , who knows . If Foley gets full control of us he can do whatever he likes which I don’t think would necessarily be a good thing.

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

[The Modfather]

Bill Foley is a successful businessman. If he and BKFC become majority owners of Hibs, whether we’re their ‘main priority’ or not, they’ll want us to be as successful as possible and will fund us to do so.

We might be Gordons main priority, hasn’t stopped us being utter dog-**** under them though, has it?

Honestly, what do folk think BKFC are going to do with us, rename us Bournemouth B and change our strip? There’s zero evidence they want anything but success for the teams they own.

While I do think it’s fair to have some reservations and questions around the Black Knights. Is there any evidence of the various hypothetical, and always negative, scenarios coming true at either Lorient or Auckland? Albeit it’s still very early on in the group.

[B.H.F.C]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

Without any half decent team on the park for most of it though!

[Bostonhibby]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.I'm more worried about poor old Auntie Gordon who is now being wheeled out, what has she ever done?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

I don’t see it like that at all and think it’s like comparing chalk and cheese tbh though I did think that to when mercer was mentioned as well .. each to their own opinion of course.

[The Modfather]

I don’t see it like that at all and think it’s like comparing chalk and cheese tbh though I did think that to when mercer was mentioned as well .. each to their own opinion of course.

An owner interfering with recruitment and choosing players to buy. Lurching from disaster to disaster (Brighton link up, Charleston Battery, B team etc) and churning through managers, players and DOF’s. For balance, at least Ian Gordon wasn’t faxing in team sheets!

[blackpoolhibs]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

Exactly, just without the good days and trophies.

[Paulie Walnuts]

An owner interfering with recruitment and choosing players to buy. Lurching from disaster to disaster (Brighton link up, Charleston Battery, B team etc) and churning through managers, players and DOF’s. For balance, at least Ian Gordon wasn’t faxing in team sheets!

:agree:

Makes a mockery of the idea they always want what’s best for Hibs as well. Nobody in their right mind could have thought Ian Gordon as head of recruitment was best for Hibs. We got it though because it was best for Ian.

The Gordon’s have shown themselves to be more than happy to do what they like whether it’s good for Hibs or not.

[A Hi-Bee]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

FFS is this for real, the gimps stole 2 Scottish cups while the imitation Russian stole everything.
No comparison at all.

[vincipernoi]

Apologies - I haven't read through the whole thread.
Is it known which company went into liquidation owing hibs over a million ?
Thanks.

[A Hi-Bee]

I sometimes wonder how many Russian hats are hiding on this site.
:faf:

[Donegal Hibby]

An owner interfering with recruitment and choosing players to buy. Lurching from disaster to disaster (Brighton link up, Charleston Battery, B team etc) and churning through managers, players and DOF’s. For balance, at least Ian Gordon wasn’t faxing in team sheets!

Which has changed in the appointment of Garvan Stewart , Kensell away . Also David Gray was an appointment he made that other shareholders and fans weren’t happy about which is proving to be a decent one at this moment in time , stadium , hospitality improvements , willingness to cover losses etc etc .

Find the comparison between the Gordon’s and Romanov quite bizarre in all honesty.

[Iain G]

Anti Gordon Brigade????

You're not crazy, just a pain in the ass with these sorts of comments.

Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong aye?

Not at all!

Happy people believe whatever they believe.

Why so aggressive though? There has been anti Gordon brigade, as noted above there were those from day 1 didn't take to Ron and family.

[A Hi-Bee]

Not at all!

Happy people believe whatever they believe.

Why so aggressive though? There has been anti Gordon brigade, as noted above there were those from day 1 didn't take to Ron and family.

I did hear that they just coudnie take to you lain, each to their own I guess.
:greengrin

[The Modfather]

Which has changed in the appointment of Garvan Stewart , Kensell away . Also David Gray was an appointment he made that other shareholders and fans weren’t happy about which is proving to be a decent one at this moment in time , stadium , hospitality improvements , willingness to cover losses etc etc .

Find the comparison between the Gordon’s and Romanov quite bizarre in all honesty.

So what is it you fear Bill Foley or the Black Knights might do that’s different to Ian Gordon signing players and all the hare brained strategies that needed roled back within a year we’ve already seen happen?

On the Romanov comparison, there’s nothing nefarious about the Gordon’s. The last 3 years under Ian Gordon have been the same kind of “banter years” we enjoyed under large parts of Romanovs tenure owing to ineptitude and a shockingly run football club though.

[Hibernian Verse]

So what is it you fear Bill Foley or the Black Knights might do that’s different to Ian Gordon signing players and all the hare brained strategies that needed roled back within a year we’ve already seen happen?

On the Romanov comparison, there’s nothing nefarious about the Gordon’s. The last 3 years under Ian Gordon have been the same kind of “banter years” we enjoyed under large parts of Romanovs tenure owing to ineptitude and a shockingly run football club though.

Hopefully we also get a Scottish Cup if that’s the case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rumble de Thump]

So what is it you fear Bill Foley or the Black Knights might do that’s different to Ian Gordon signing players and all the hare brained strategies that needed roled back within a year we’ve already seen happen?

On the Romanov comparison, there’s nothing nefarious about the Gordon’s. The last 3 years under Ian Gordon have been the same kind of “banter years” we enjoyed under large parts of Romanovs tenure owing to ineptitude and a shockingly run football club though.

It always amazes me that there are people who choose to humiliate themselves so publicly by going online and talking such very obvious nonsense.

[TimeForHeroes]

Ian Gordon can, and has, done anything he likes. Since he took over it’s been like the Romanov years.

😂😂😂

[Paulie Walnuts]

😂😂😂

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s all that outrageous a shout.

We’ve had players signed by accident. Playing suspended players in cups. Appointing the owners son to a key role because he’s the owners son and nothing else. Giving jobs to sex pests. Giving jobs to racists. Huge promises that are never fulfilled. Completely unprofessional chief execs who promise the world then do a runner a week prior to us finding them out. An obscene amount of players signed. Constant managerial churn.

Nobody is claiming the end result will be the same, but there’s more than a hint of it in the day to day running of the club.

[TrinityHFC]

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s all that outrageous a shout.

We’ve had players signed by accident. Playing suspended players in cups. Appointing the owners son to a key role because he’s the owners son and nothing else. Giving jobs to sex pests. Giving jobs to racists. Huge promises that are never fulfilled. Completely unprofessional chief execs who promise the world then do a runner a week prior to us finding them out. An obscene amount of players signed. Constant managerial churn.

Nobody is claiming the end result will be the same, but there’s more than a hint of it in the day to day running of the club.

Nah, not even close. In fact, not sure why I’m even giving it the time of day responding.

[tamig]

Folk see what they want to see based on who’s posting rather than read what folk are actually saying. I posted on another thread about how well Jordan Smith has done to bounce back from a bad debut and how much of an improvement he’s been on Bursik. Apparently that post showed some folk can never be happy with Hibs and it was filled with negativity. Work that one out.

Someone last night declared my post was factually correct, then somehow started saying that my post was a disgrace and comparing the Gordon’s to Mercer when that comparison was quite clearly never made. Again, work that one out.

Factually correct in that the Gordons are our second owner post Mercer. On that basis they can be the only threat currently. But to use Mercer’s name in the same sentence as the Gordons and phrases such as “biggest threat since” is sensationalist nonsense and trolling in my opinion. There are many of us here who were part of the movement that helped Mercer’s plan to crash. Using his name in the way you did is a disgrace. You’ll probably lap it up though.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Factually correct in that the Gordons are our second owner post Mercer. On that basis they can be the only threat currently. But to use Mercer’s name in the same sentence as the Gordons and phrases such as “biggest threat since” is sensationalist nonsense and trolling in my opinion. There are many of us here who were part of the movement that helped Mercer’s plan to crash. Using his name in the way you did is a disgrace. You’ll probably lap it up though.

Aye, ok :aok: Mercer never even owned us, so how does that fit into your logic that only an owner can be a threat?

Let’s be honest, you made a **** if it, read it wrong and you’re not backing down.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Nah, not even close. In fact, not sure why I’m even giving it the time of day responding.

What’s not close? What I’ve mentioned? It’s not just close, it’s what’s happened. That much is unarguable, but much like your insistence that Kensell was brilliant I’m sure you’ll give arguing it a go.

[marinello59]

It always amazes me that there are people who choose to humiliate themselves so publicly by going online and talking such very obvious nonsense.

You’ve read my posts then. :greengrin

[Donegal Hibby]

So what is it you fear Bill Foley or the Black Knights might do that’s different to Ian Gordon signing players and all the hare brained strategies that needed roled back within a year we’ve already seen happen?

On the Romanov comparison, there’s nothing nefarious about the Gordon’s. The last 3 years under Ian Gordon have been the same kind of “banter years” we enjoyed under large parts of Romanovs tenure owing to ineptitude and a shockingly run football club though.

My concerns is I don’t want to see the club owned by someone like Foley/ BK’s where we aren’t their priority, have a bound , feelings for the club that could then do whatever they want . I don’t like that he’s has supported a certain individual politically and then condemn them only to start doing so again….

While the Gordon’s have made mistakes they have improved the stadium , hospitality , pitch etc and spent money on players like Bowie , Vente and tried to buy McCowan for a million pounds.

Quite happy with a partnership of the BK’s and the Gordon’s working together for the greater good of the club , as they say two heads are better than one . Think the Gordon’s care for the club despite their mistakes …

The comparison of Romanov to the Gordon’s is ludicrous to say the least .. comparing night and day IMO .

[cubehindthegoal]

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s all that outrageous a shout.

We’ve had players signed by accident. Playing suspended players in cups. Appointing the owners son to a key role because he’s the owners son and nothing else. Giving jobs to sex pests. Giving jobs to racists. Huge promises that are never fulfilled. Completely unprofessional chief execs who promise the world then do a runner a week prior to us finding them out. An obscene amount of players signed. Constant managerial churn.

Nobody is claiming the end result will be the same, but there’s more than a hint of it in the day to day running of the club.

I don’t see a list of creditors such as charities, companies, individuals etc being left in the wake of success bought with their debts at our club. The Lady Haig Poppy Factory and others need not worry. It’s wrong to compare us in any way to what Hearts fans supported and excused.

[007]

Nope, the Gordon's get zero for credit for anything.

They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for. They might get lucky, and it's looking much better now, but that's all on SDG, not the Gordon's or Kensall.

As for the current squad, it's still mostly garbage and went 10+ games without a win. I'm still hoping most of them are shipped out in the summer.

For 5 years there have been posters on here slating those of us who didn't want Maloney, LJ, or the obviously useless Montgomery, as Hibs manager.

We'd never have had SDH as manager if we listened to the guff trotted out by the happy clapping Gordon supporting posters on here.

I've been accused regularly gf having an 'agenda' and against anyone I've criticised on here and it's becoming a right pain in the backside.

Now apparently I've unwittingly joined an 'anti Gordon brigade' without evening knowing such a thing existed!!

If you don't want to be in the anti-Gordon brigade then maybe don't tell lies like that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t see a list of creditors such as charities, companies, individuals etc being left in the wake of success bought with their debts at our club. The Lady Haig Poppy Factory and others need not worry. It’s wrong to compare us in any way to what Hearts fans supported and excused.

When someone says the Romanov years, I don’t think of the aftermath, I think of his time there. What he left behind would be the post Romanov years.

[tamig]

Aye, ok :aok: Mercer never even owned us, so how does that fit into your logic that only an owner can be a threat?

Let’s be honest, you made a **** if it, read it wrong and you’re not backing down.

I read your follow-up post to the original statement when someone else called you out on it.

STF came in and saved us from Wallace Mercer. In the 30 years after that, we couldn’t have been in safer hands. Unless you think Hibs were under more threat from STFs ownership, then it’s absolutely correct.

Maybe I gave you the benefit of the doubt by agreeing it was correct. But its nothing like the Mercer situation. The only way its similar is we have a party on the board with a 25% holding who could sell that stake to a hostile bidder. I think they’re more likely to increase that stake than anything else. The Gordons won’t close us down as Mercer intended.

[ian cruise]

Nope, the Gordon's get zero for credit for anything.

They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for. They might get lucky, and it's looking much better now, but that's all on SDG, not the Gordon's or Kensall.

As for the current squad, it's still mostly garbage and went 10+ games without a win. I'm still hoping most of them are shipped out in the summer.

For 5 years there have been posters on here slating those of us who didn't want Maloney, LJ, or the obviously useless Montgomery, as Hibs manager.

We'd never have had SDH as manager if we listened to the guff trotted out by the happy clapping Gordon supporting posters on here.

I've been accused regularly gf having an 'agenda' and against anyone I've criticised on here and it's becoming a right pain in the backside.

Now apparently I've unwittingly joined an 'anti Gordon brigade' without evening knowing such a thing existed!!

I don't think the Gordon's have done a good job, I think league results and financial results since they bought the club have proven that, however:

"They didn't appoint SDG. They just went with him cause they didn't who else to go for"

That's nonsense. We had many reports of others going for the job but more importantly we had stories that BKG were unhappy because Gordon went with Gray over BKG preferred choice. Something that was pretty much confirmed when Foley came out publicly stating the club weren't listening to him, but they might now during Gray's poor run.

We're nothing like the Romanov years at Hearts. Aside from the fact that we've not been doing that well 😁 more importantly Hearts wasted other people's money. The Gordon's may have run up debts, but they've continually covered that debt from their own pockets. We can't keep running the club that way, but it's not like they're continually taking money out the club.

Plenty to moan about from the way the Gordon's have run things to date, no need to make other things up.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I read your follow-up post to the original statement when someone else called you out on it.

STF came in and saved us from Wallace Mercer. In the 30 years after that, we couldn’t have been in safer hands. Unless you think Hibs were under more threat from STFs ownership, then it’s absolutely correct.

Maybe I gave you the benefit of the doubt by agreeing it was correct. But it’s nothing like the Mercer situation. The only way it’s similar is we have a party on the board with a 25% holding who could sell that stake to a hostile bidder. I think they’re more likely to increase that stake than anything else. The Gordons won’t close us down as Mercer intended.

No.

The biggest threat SINCE Mercer. SINCE. Not including, SINCE.

The definition of “Since” - in the intervening period between (the time mentioned) and the time under consideration, typically the present.

That means Mercer isn’t included and is irrelevant.

Jesus Christ, the fact a very simple point is still the point of discussion 24h later is quite something. You didn’t give me the “benefit of the doubt”, you got it completely wrong and are still refusing to back down no matter how many times it’s pointed out they were completely wrong and I’ve absolutely zero doubt it’s because of my username.

As said previously, no interest in the content of the post, making up your own narrative based on what you have decided you expect me to say, much like my fairly high praise of Jordan Smith which was apparently negative (:faf:) and showed that some posters can’t enjoy being Hibs fans (:faf:), even if it’s not even close to being similar.

[ancient hibee]

Romanov. -took money from a football club and other businesses to use himself.

Gordon family -put their own money into a football club for it to spend.


There may be similarities in chaotic running of football clubs but other than that they’re polar opposites.

[Donegal Hibby]

No.

The biggest threat SINCE Mercer. SINCE. Not including, SINCE.

The definition of “Since” - in the intervening period between (the time mentioned) and the time under consideration, typically the present.

That means Mercer isn’t included and is irrelevant.

Jesus Christ, the fact a very simple point is still the point of discussion 24h later is quite something. You didn’t give me the “benefit of the doubt”, you got it completely wrong and are still refusing to back down and I’ve absolutely zero doubt it’s because of my username.

I don’t understand where your coming from in the Gordon’s are the biggest threat since mercer especially as they are apparently covering the losses, I don’t get why Mackay is continuously getting called out for something that he did years ago even though he’s done a rehabilitation programme to which a anti racism group have supported him in rebuilding his career , surely the guy deserves a second chance ? …

Personally I’m more interested in what kind a job he’s doing and is going to do than his past now .

We are going well at the minute and on a good run , into the next round of the cup and also made / making significant changes within the club which will hopefully see us get stronger/ better moving forward..

A lot to be happy and positive about at the moment IMO .

[Hibs4185]

If a £7.2 million loss made us third consistently and it was covered by the owners/shareholders I’d be happy as *uck.

The loss doesn’t *iss me off, it’s the fact that every penny of that loss has been wasted and got us nowhere.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t understand where your coming from in the Gordon’s are the biggest threat since mercer especially as they are apparently covering the losses, I don’t get why Mackay is continuously getting called out for something that he did years ago even though he’s done a rehabilitation programme to which a anti racism group have supported him in rebuilding his career , surely the guy deserves a second chance ? …

Personally I’m more interested in what kind a job he’s doing and is going to do than his past now .

We are going well at the minute and on a good run , into the next round of the cup and also made / making significant changes within the club which will hopefully see us get stronger/ better moving forward..

A lot to be happy and positive about at the moment IMO .

If you don’t get why someone that came out with the most horrendous of statements about numerous different groups of people isn’t welcome at Hibs as far as some people are concerned then that’s on you.

As someone who belongs to one of those groups I have absolutely no desire to forgive him. No amount of tick box exercise courses will change my mind on that.

He’s had his second chance. He can **** off and have his third chance elsewhere. Myself and others don’t need to accept him getting it at Hibs and being told by white, straight males (whether that’s you or not I don’t know, but I can guarantee there’ll be plenty on here who go on about forgiving him, woke nonsense etc) that we should just leave him be is a nonsense.

[neil7908]

If a £7.2 million loss made us third consistently and it was covered by the owners/shareholders I’d be happy as *uck.

The loss doesn’t *iss me off, it’s the fact that every penny of that loss has been wasted and got us nowhere.

This. Our neighbours across the city and Aberdeen have pissed away much more than we have. But at least they have some European adventures to show for it. We have mediocrity.

The Gordon's will have been in charge for 6 years come the summer. It's evident they have had no idea what they are doing, and we're just sitting here hoping they have learnt lessons and will do better in the future.

Let's be honest, if they were a manager, player or any other employee at the club they would have been sacked years ago.

[Donegal Hibby]

If you don’t get why someone that came out with the most horrendous of statements about numerous different groups of people isn’t welcome at Hibs as far as some people are concerned then that’s on you.

As someone who belongs to one of those groups I have absolutely no desire to forgive him. No amount of tick box exercise courses will change my mind on that.

He’s had his second chance. He can **** off and have his third chance elsewhere. Myself and others don’t need to accept him getting it at Hibs and being told by white, straight males (whether that’s you or not I don’t know, but I can guarantee there’ll be plenty on here who go on about forgiving him, woke nonsense etc) that we should just leave him be is a nonsense.

I get what he did was bad and certainly in no way condoning it btw but I’m of the opinion that in most situations when someone does something wrong if there is a genuine remorse and a willingness to change / learn from it then they should get a second chance to rebuild their career/ life …

It’s been something like 11 years since that happened and even though he’s been through rehabilitation , apologised and spoken openly about it with no other issues in that time he is still frequently getting called a ‘ racist ‘ …

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38314905#:~:text=Show%20Racism%20the%20Red%20Card, and%20deserved%20a%20second%20chance.

[Iain G]

When someone says the Romanov years, I don’t think of the aftermath, I think of his time there. What he left behind would be the post Romanov years.

Are you here just to promote the new BBC Jambosound Romanov podcast?

[TrinityHFC]

If you don’t get why someone that came out with the most horrendous of statements about numerous different groups of people isn’t welcome at Hibs as far as some people are concerned then that’s on you.

As someone who belongs to one of those groups I have absolutely no desire to forgive him. No amount of tick box exercise courses will change my mind on that.

He’s had his second chance. He can **** off and have his third chance elsewhere. Myself and others don’t need to accept him getting it at Hibs and being told by white, straight males (whether that’s you or not I don’t know, but I can guarantee there’ll be plenty on here who go on about forgiving him, woke nonsense etc) that we should just leave him be is a nonsense.

The most horrendous?

He said ‘a gay snake’.

I’ve heard more horrendous things to be honest.

[gbhibby]

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s all that outrageous a shout.

We’ve had players signed by accident. Playing suspended players in cups. Appointing the owners son to a key role because he’s the owners son and nothing else. Giving jobs to sex pests. Giving jobs to racists. Huge promises that are never fulfilled. Completely unprofessional chief execs who promise the world then do a runner a week prior to us finding them out. An obscene amount of players signed. Constant managerial churn.

Nobody is claiming the end result will be the same, but there’s more than a hint of it in the day to day running of the club.

Previous regime (Rod Petrie) gave a managers job to someone who was seen on camera and admitted to singing bigoted songs. Got us relegated, and it took years to get back up to the top league.

[HoboHarry]

Think it might be bedtime for a few on here lol....

[Kato]

When someone says the Romanov years, I don’t think of the aftermath, I think of his time there. What he left behind would be the post Romanov years.When I think of his time there I think of all the accusations at the beginning of it being a money laundering exercise and the fact they were, revealed later but discussed at the time, being run by money gained from criminal activity.

The football decisions were taken alongside and according to that backdrop.

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[One Day Soon]

The most horrendous?

He said ‘a gay snake’.

I’ve heard more horrendous things to be honest.

That’s pretty ****ing grotesque. Incredibly offensive, as would be any attempt to minimise or excuse it.

[Since452]

Personally think Malky adds value to the club. Thought it was a shrewd appointment then and I still feel the same now. What he said over a decade ago doesn't really interest me. He's done more than you'd expect to try and make it right. Fully respect others opinions on him though.

[USA_Hibee]

Personally think Malky adds value to the club. Thought it was a shrewd appointment then and I still feel the same now. What he said over a decade ago doesn't really interest me. He's done more than you'd expect to try and make it right. Fully respect others opinions on him though.

Way to out yourself Malky. 😉

[Since90+2]

I wish someone who was a threat to my business would give me 7 million quid out of their own pocket.

[matty_f]

I wish someone who was a threat to my business would give me 7 million quid out of their own pocket.

For the comparison to work you’d have to accept that you’ll not see any of that £7m and your business will be materially worse after they’ve spent it. 😁

[JimBHibees]

Personally think Malky adds value to the club. Thought it was a shrewd appointment then and I still feel the same now. What he said over a decade ago doesn't really interest me. He's done more than you'd expect to try and make it right. Fully respect others opinions on him though.

So do i. A sensible appointment particularly to strengthen the football department at a time of bedding in an inexperienced head coach. There should be opportunities for people to learn lessons and rehabilitate from previous mistakes.

[cubehindthegoal]

When someone says the Romanov years, I don’t think of the aftermath, I think of his time there. What he left behind would be the post Romanov years.

And those romanov years were defined by not paying the debts to charities etc during them, which Hearts fans were happy to ignore, and you seem happy to also. What happened after was built up during the previous years, and any success was built with those unpaid debts as a foundation.

[jakeshibs]

I’m not sure why anyone thinks it’s all that outrageous a shout.

We’ve had players signed by accident. Playing suspended players in cups. Appointing the owners son to a key role because he’s the owners son and nothing else. Giving jobs to sex pests. Giving jobs to racists. Huge promises that are never fulfilled. Completely unprofessional chief execs who promise the world then do a runner a week prior to us finding them out. An obscene amount of players signed. Constant managerial churn.

Nobody is claiming the end result will be the same, but there’s more than a hint of it in the day to day running of the club.

What utter nonsense.

[Alfred E Newman]

If you don’t get why someone that came out with the most horrendous of statements about numerous different groups of people isn’t welcome at Hibs as far as some people are concerned then that’s on you.

As someone who belongs to one of those groups I have absolutely no desire to forgive him. No amount of tick box exercise courses will change my mind on that.

He’s had his second chance. He can **** off and have his third chance elsewhere. Myself and others don’t need to accept him getting it at Hibs and being told by white, straight males (whether that’s you or not I don’t know, but I can guarantee there’ll be plenty on here who go on about forgiving him, woke nonsense etc) that we should just leave him be is a nonsense.

It's time you gave up on this drivel.

[jakeshibs]

Bill Foley is a successful businessman. If he and BKFC become majority owners of Hibs, whether we’re their ‘main priority’ or not, they’ll want us to be as successful as possible and will fund us to do so.

We might be Gordons main priority, hasn’t stopped us being utter dog-**** under them though, has it?

Honestly, what do folk think BKFC are going to do with us, rename us Bournemouth B and change our strip? There’s zero evidence they want anything but success for the teams they own.


What makes you think we are even Bournemouth B, he has numerous clubs, not doing too well either, but we could be further down that line.

[flash]

What makes you think we are even Bournemouth B, he has numerous clubs, not doing too well either, but we could be further down that line.

Bournemouth are flying, Auckland and Lorient are top and we are on a fantastic unbeaten run so unsure which team they are involved in are "not doing too well."

[Allant1981]

What utter nonsense.

Very similar to another poster who no longer comes on, posts stuff just to get a reaction from others, best ignored

[Speedy]

It's time you gave up on this drivel.

Pretty poor reply imo, particularly on a sensitive topic. Paulie Walnuts is entitled to an opinion.

[flash]

Pretty poor reply imo, particularly on a sensitive topic. Paulie Walnuts is entitled to an opinion.

Don't we all know it.

[followhibs]

For the comparison to work you’d have to accept that you’ll not see any of that £7m and your business will be materially worse after they’ve spent it. 😁

It can't be sustainable for a business to receive millions of pounds basically just to plug holes. As much as the Gordons are putting there hands in there pockets its not healthy running a football club with no concerns for the finances, it created the turn over of managers, massive bloated squad of average players with outrageous contracts and lack of hunger. SDG current squad was assembled by 5 managers over 4 years no wonder had zero identity.
I really hope that this is the start of the end of all this inconsistency.
I prefer a long term structure for the club rather than what we have had over the last 5 years.
The Stadium and Training centre are place for us to be a much more successful club.
We might have to be patient as fans and also not also jerk when things don't go our way.

[RMQ1967]

If you don’t get why someone that came out with the most horrendous of statements about numerous different groups of people isn’t welcome at Hibs as far as some people are concerned then that’s on you.

As someone who belongs to one of those groups I have absolutely no desire to forgive him. No amount of tick box exercise courses will change my mind on that.

He’s had his second chance. He can **** off and have his third chance elsewhere. Myself and others don’t need to accept him getting it at Hibs and being told by white, straight males (whether that’s you or not I don’t know, but I can guarantee there’ll be plenty on here who go on about forgiving him, woke nonsense etc) that we should just leave him be is a nonsense.

Come on Paulie - surely you're not saying that you've never in your life made a joke that you subsequently realised was in poor taste or been critical of other groups that don't share your values?

Anyone who makes that claim is truly divine & you can appreciate that most guys or girls on a football forum have probably engaged in some poor banter they're not proud of at one time.

Time to give the guy a break & most of us too 😁

[Alfred E Newman]

[QUOTE=Speedy;7891047]Pretty poor reply imo, particularly on a sensitive topic. Paulie Walnuts is entitled to an opinion.[/QUOTE

It's maybe a sensitive topic but people have served time for murder and been released since the man sent 2 questionable texts and apologised for it. It's been done to death and it's time to give the guy a break.

[Kato]

[QUOTE=Speedy;7891047]Pretty poor reply imo, particularly on a sensitive topic. Paulie Walnuts is entitled to an opinion.[/QUOTE

It's maybe a sensitive topic but people have served time for murder and been released since the man sent 2 questionable texts and apologised for it. It's been done to death and it's time to give the guy a break.Correct. If we can't accept that racism/bigotry can be educated out of someone then the world is goosed.

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[Pedantic_Hibee]

I have no issue with the Gordons owning the club.

I take grave issue with Ian Gordon having any say whatsoever on football decisions.

Someone, somewhere, anywhere, needs to sit that man down and tell him he has absolutely no business getting involved in any footballing matters whatsoever due to an absolute litany of costly ****-ups. They also then need to tell his mother that his continued involvement as a decision maker will be the reason her estate will be halved in value.

[TrinityHFC]

[QUOTE=Alfred E Newman;7891061]Correct. If we can't accept that racism/bigotry can be educated out of someone then the world is goosed.

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I don’t believe he genuinely was any of those things either. He said some reasonably tame things in messages to a mate where he had an expectation of privacy.

[blackpoolhibs]

When i think back to Romanov, i think of the way he played football manager with the club, much as i think the same with the Gordons.

We know how it ended at the piggery, we dont know that at Hibs.

[HoboHarry]

Come on Paulie - surely you're not saying that you've never in your life made a joke that you subsequently realised was in poor taste or been critical of other groups that don't share your values?

Anyone who makes that claim is truly divine & you can appreciate that most guys or girls on a football forum have probably engaged in some poor banter they're not proud of at one time.

Time to give the guy a break & most of us too 😁
I certainly have. There's nothing racist about me but I've said things in my younger days (which no one was offended by at that time) but which would get me a jail sentence nowadays going by one poster on here....

[Kato]

[QUOTE=Kato;7891080]

I don’t believe he genuinely was any of those things either. He said some reasonably tame things in messages to a mate where he had an expectation of privacy.Same thing though, the most mild or the most extreme people have been educated away from those actions or beliefs. If someone has shown true remorse they should be held up as a good example rather than be ostracised for ever more.

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[WhileTheChief..]

If you don't want to be in the anti-Gordon brigade then maybe don't tell lies like that.

Lies? You can go do one with that kinda chat.

Nobody else was even considered for the job. You think it was cause they suddenly realised they had the right man in the building all along?

Or more likely was it cause we’re skint, they could get him to take the job without paying him as much as others, and the fans would give him more leeway?

Let’s face it, anyone who thought LJ or Montgomery were fit to be Hibs manager, doesn’t really have a clue. Much like yourself apparently.