Is relegation a formality now?

[expresso]

Sadly I think it is gap only going to increase over next few games.
As well as being gutless and rudderless we seem to be plagued with the bad luck which relegated teams seem to suffer.

Perversely might take us going down to trigger a full reset and clear out just like 2014

[Exuberance1875]

I think it’s all but confirmed to be fair, although clear out wise will be a bigger struggle as too many have deals running beyond this season

[AdidasHibernian]

The fact that it might have to take yet another relegation like before to shake the club up is embarrassing.

The only hope we have is we somewhoe remain close enough to 10th going into January and hope we can bring in enough quality to get us over the line to keep us in the league however right now it's the flip of a coin.


Only Hibs would have us in this position going into their 150th year!!

[HarpOnHibee]

The players seem to think so.

[JohnM1875]

If we stick with Gray then I actually think it is.

If we act now then I think the squad has enough, with a few January additions to finish from 7th to 10th and avoid a play off.

[Lago]

It's certainly a reality.

[Trinity Hibee]

I do think we are a certainty for relegation now. Reasons being we have no style of play, no plan in games, making horrific mistakes costing in goals and we aren’t scoring enough. I don’t get the impression the players think they can win games when they step out on the pitch. I think Gray should go but I’m not sure who comes in and gets this squad picking up points

Can only hope we have relegation clauses in players contracts which allows us to get rid of them for nothing or cut their wages drastically. A second relegation in 10 years amongst many other mediocre seasons is simply not good enough for this club. With out resources and fan base we should be nowhere near the bottom and certainly not as often as we find ourselves there. Disgusted with everyone at the club just now. The mess we are in will take months/years to fix

[HoboHarry]

I don't think the OP understands what formality means.

[DIXIHIBS]

A formality...get a grip. There's 25 games to go!! No arguement we are in a mess right now and we need to start picking up points...fast. Not saying we can't be relegated...of course we can...but there's a long way to go.

[04Sauzee]

Formality? All but confirmed. Jeez it's not looking good and yes we need to do some major surgery again in Jan, hopefully Garvin will be announced soon, hopefully he's already been doing work on what's needed and hopefully we put Gray out of his misery. I know I have used the word hopefully several times there but we have so much still to play for.

[Hibiza]

Breaking my rule about commenting on this shambles . Relegation not inevitable but we've put ourselves in " pole position ," .

[Hibiza]

Shambolic / disaster.

[Since452]

I think we'll probably go down with the lowest points total for a long time

[easty]

It's not even close to being a formality.

If nothing changes then we're clear favourites for it, and the quicker we make the necessary changes the better.

[He's here!]

If we stick with Gray then I actually think it is.

If we act now then I think the squad has enough, with a few January additions to finish from 7th to 10th and avoid a play off.

Bowie coming back might help but it's likely he'll need months to get back to speed.

Will he want to hang around in the Championship?

[B.H.F.C]

No, if we make a change quickly enough. If the idiots in charge just continue to let the games pass by then nothing will change and we will be relegated.

[Hibernia&Alba]

No, it isn’t a formality. It’s November, an awful lot will happen this season yet. We are only a dozen games in. As bad as things are, I believe we can get out of this. The next managerial appointment is key; SDG’s tenure looks sure to end soon. We need to find the right guy.

[easty]

I think we'll probably go down with the lowest points total for a long time

Dundee went down with 21 points in 18/19.

We're on track for 23 points on current rate.

[Carheenlea]

If we say that 40 points for example would be enough to avoid relegation or play off, then after amassing 8 points between August to end of November, we need to find 32 points from December to May.

Ten wins and a couple of draws.

Quite why the board isn’t in full crisis mode right now I’m not quite sure. With every week that we fail to address the management situation is another week lost in trying to build up our points and try and get some momentum towards safety.

St Johnstone and Ross County were both on 35 points last season, with Livingston managing 25.

25 points for us right now feels a long way off..

[Pretty Boy]

The general consensus among our group last night was 'we're ****ed'. We look like a team that has accepted their fate. There doesn't seem one big character who is going to grab this by the scruff of the neck and drag us to safety. Plenty players willing to talk a big game but we've heard it all before from most of them. Very few willing to back up the words with actions.

With the benefit of a goods night sleep I'm not sure it is a formality. A very real possibility, maybe even highly probable but with so many points to play for we can't just chuck in the towel as fans.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's not even close to being a formality.

If nothing changes then we're clear favourites for it, and the quicker we make the necessary changes the better.

:agree:

[Trinity Hibee]

If we say that 40 points for example would be enough to avoid relegation or play off, then after amassing 8 points between August to end of November, we need to find 32 points from December to May.

Ten wins and a couple of draws.

Quite why the board isn’t in full crisis mode right now I’m not quite sure. With every week that we fail to address the management situation is another week lost in trying to build up our points and try and get some momentum towards safety.

St Johnstone and Ross County were both on 35 points last season, with Livingston managing 25.

25 points for us right now feels a long way off..

That’s it. Each week that passes our chances get even less of staying up. I’m amazed they didn’t make the change 2 weeks ago and if it doesn’t happen in the next few days then we’re done for

[Smartie]

I don’t think it is.

But there will need to be some serious work done ahead of January, some serious money spent and a bit of luck with new players gelling if it is to be averted.

These players aren’t going to manage it. Weak as piss mentally, the opposite of what you need in a scrap and that would be the case whoever happened to be head coach.

[California-Hibs]

If we get rid of Gray we'll be fine and have a 7th or 8th finish. Persist with what we're currently doing and we absolutely are in real danger of it becoming a formality.

[supermcginn]

With this manager and players like Campbell not only starting but playing 90 minutes then we are totally doomed.

[He's here!]

Dundee went down with 21 points in 18/19.

We're on track for 23 points on current rate.

I'd question whether we're even 'on track' for that right now. They way we're playing you couldn't honestly predict when we're going to pick up another point.

The first time I saw Hibs relegated in 1980 it was two points for a win and I think we went down on 18 points which was really pitiful, but right now an even more embarrassing tally isn't out of the question.

[H18S NX]

I fear the worst,we have absolutely no "bottle" for the fight IMO.

[The Tubs]

If we get rid of Gray we'll be fine and have a 7th or 8th finish. Persist with what we're currently doing and we absolutely are in real danger of it becoming a formality.

Even if we got rid of Davie now, we'd still have the same keeper for the next nine games or something. We're screwed.

[Allant1981]

Certainly no where near a formality, but as each week goes past it certainly doesn't look good

[Exuberance1875]

If we get rid of Gray we'll be fine and have a 7th or 8th finish. Persist with what we're currently doing and we absolutely are in real danger of it becoming a formality.

New manager and complete and utter overhaul in January (can’t see the latter happening though) so I think 7th or 8th would take a minor miracle

[gegs70]

Plenty of time left, Gray needs to change the goalkeeper he has made far too many errors. Not sure why he had not tried to keeper that we actually signed (is he that bad?). Rocky isn't the answer either. I suspect we will do what we have done before bring in a number of signings in January..... Then it will be the rebuild again in summer. David is right I'm tired of this movie..... Time to take Bobby Williamson advice if you want entertainment go to the cinema.

[LaMotta]

If people do think it is a formality then you can get 6/1 on us finishing bottom with Betfred ( 3rd favourites for the drop). Starsports had us a 20/1 last week to go down which was ridiculous odds given how bad we have been.

St Johnstone are the bookies favourites at all bookies, 5/4 at Betfred. Ross County 9/4.

[Exuberance1875]

40/1 after first game of the season was too good to turn down. Writing was on the wall then

[Callum_62]

It's a possibility but no where near a formality

We need a change and quickly tho

Can't believe Gray hasn't went to a 3 at the back and tried to make us at least hard to beat (and we looker decent with a 3 at utd until the sending off)

We need points drastically

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Exuberance1875]

Separately, Gray and the players etc say there’s a real togetherness that will get them through this.

I’m sorry but I’ve not seen a single ounce of that this season. Team of individuals, they don’t fight or cover for each other. There’s zero team spirit there if you ask me

[James70]

We are well on track to be the worst team ever relegated. No one seems to have a clue how to fix this other than to have a complete change of board and management team. Does anyone other than David Gray even care?

[flash]

40/1 after first game of the season was too good to turn down. Writing was on the wall then

You have been at it for weeks now.

[Gatecrasher]

We're not doomed yet, I think we're favourites at the moment but there's time to make the changes. That includes a new manager.

[JimBHibees]

If people do think it is a formality then you can get 6/1 on us finishing bottom with Betfred ( 3rd favourites for the drop). Starsports had us a 20/1 last week to go down which was ridiculous odds given how bad we have been.

St Johnstone are the bookies favourites at all bookies, 5/4 at Betfred. Ross County 9/4.

Yep clearly isn’t a formality jeezo

[JimBHibees]

You have been at it for weeks now.

Yep so many at the moment place is crawling

[Liberal Hibby]

The general consensus among our group last night was 'we're ****ed'. We look like a team that has accepted their fate. There doesn't seem one big character who is going to grab this by the scruff of the neck and drag us to safety. Plenty players willing to talk a big game but we've heard it all before from most of them. Very few willing to back up the words with actions.

With the benefit of a goods night sleep I'm not sure it is a formality. A very real possibility, maybe even highly probable but with so many points to play for we can't just chuck in the towel as fans.

I thought the same after the St Mirren game and unless we can find a way of turning things around, find a leader or two on the park and a way of stopping conceding cheap goals we're going down. Much as SDG is a legend he's shown absolutely nothing that suggests he can turn things around. New head coach/manager now a necessity followed by clear out of owners/non football management. It's really not about poor players (although some are not up to scratch) - there's enough talent there to move up the league we just need someone to get a tune out of them.

[cabbageandribs1875]

anyone feeling super positive, to win the league

1000/1 Hibs
1500/1 Kilmarnock
1500/1 st mirren
2000/1 Heartz
2500/1 Ross co
4500/1 st johnstone



bookies ken the score

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yep so many at the moment place is crawling

Strange, given their own problems. They are also relegation candidates.

[lyonhibs]

I don't think the OP understands what formality means.

Indeed. One of the more absurd thread starting posts lately.

[expresso]

I don't think the OP understands what formality means.

I know what it means in sporting parlance

[expresso]

Indeed. One of the more absurd thread starting posts lately.

No more absurd than thinking this team / management has the bottle or talent to turn things round

[lyonhibs]

No more absurd than thinking this team / management has the bottle or talent to turn things round

Mercifully there's 2/3 of the season to go. I agree that all the signs with the current setup are grim whatever way you look at it, but a lot can, and must, change. It'll be a formality if we're 4 points back with 1 game to play, and not beforehand. To say so this early is absurd, painting with black and white strokes in the extreme.

[H18 SFR]

75 points to play for of which the last 15 in particular will be huge.

Replace Gray now and give the new manager a chance with 3-4 players in, in January - we’ve got a chance.

Keep Gray until the end of the window you’d be as well flying a white flag above the West stand. Gary is good enough to take us down without a doubt.

[Northernhibee]

I don’t know, but 10th place would feel like a cup win right this very second.

[danhibees1875]

No. There's 25 games to go.

[He's here!]

I don’t know, but 10th place would feel like a cup win right this very second.

We'd certainly take 10th right now, although the celebrations would be more muted than 2016...

[Jones28]

It’s not a formality, but I’m completely setting myself up to see us relegated this season and anything else is a pleasant surprise.

[Forza Fred]

Another thread honking with infiltrators.

[Jamesie]

Of the two relegations that I have living memory of - 1997/98 and 2013/14 - both were preceded by decent starts to the season followed by falling off a cliff edge in terms of collapse.

In the former, we only lost one out our first eight matches, including a win over Celtic on the opening day; in the latter, I recall we were sitting third at around this point of the season and nobody in their right mind would have believed, after winning the Derby on 2 January, that we would go on to win only one of the following eighteen league matches.

My point is this: never can I recall a Hibs team in my lifetime having a stronger second half to the season than the first, and thus for this squad to turn things around around, they need to buck that trend quite significantly.

I’m hearing that a lot of our commercial blazers are talking, somewhat optimistically and naively in my view, of the need for “just one win” to immediately ignite a renaissance. It is very similar to some of the “just one goal” chat I recall from 1997/98 / 2013/14, when, in both instances, converting two of our draws to wins would have seen relegation avoided. I think these guys need to learn from the history books.

[DIXIHIBS]

Another thread honking with infiltrators.

Worst I've seen it.

[The Tubs]

Of the two relegations that I have living memory of - 1997/98 and 2013/14 - both were preceded by decent starts to the season followed by falling off a cliff edge in terms of collapse.

In the former, we only lost one out our first eight matches, including a win over Celtic on the opening day; in the latter, I recall we were sitting third at around this point of the season and nobody in their right mind would have believed, after winning the Derby on 2 January, that we would go on to win only one of the following eighteen league matches.

My point is this: never can I recall a Hibs team in my lifetime having a stronger second half to the season than the first, and thus for this squad to turn things around around, they need to buck that trend quite significantly.

I’m hearing that a lot of our commercial blazers are talking, somewhat optimistically and naively in my view, of the need for “just one win” to immediately ignite a renaissance. It is very similar to some of the “just one goal” chat I recall from 1997/98 / 2013/14, when, in both instances, converting two of our draws to wins would have seen relegation avoided. I think these guys need to learn from the history books.

Exactly how I see it too, though we did have an excellent second half of the season a couple of times in the first division and under Lennon when we came up.

[GreenCastle]

It's important to look at the history of teams going down or finishing 11th / 10th

2023/2024
10th - St J - 35 points
11th - Ross County - 35 points
12th - Livingston - 25 points

2022/2023

10th - Killie - 40
11th - Ross County 34
12th - Dundee Utd 31

2021 / 2022

10th - Aberdeen - 41
11th - St J - 35
12th - Dundee - 29

2020/ 2021

10th - Ross County - 39
11th - Killie - 36
12th - Hamilton -30

....

We have now played 13 games = we have taken 8 points from 39.

25 games left =75 points left to play for. Let's look at who we have to play before the bottom 6 split.

Games I don't see us getting anything from..

Celtic - x2 (1 home - 1 away)
Aberdeen x3 (2 home - 1 away)
Rangers - x2 (1 home - 1 away)

21 points in the games above - assuming we lose all of them.

Dundee Utd - x1 (1 away)
Motherwell - x2 (1 home - 1 away)
St Mirren - x1 (1 away)
Dundee - x1 (1 home)
Ross County - x2 (1 home - 1 away)
St J - x2 (1 home - 1 away)
Killie - x2 (1 home - 1 away)
Hearts - x2 (1 home - 1 away)

13 games (5 home - 7 away) = 39 points

I look at these fixtures and it's hard to see where points are coming from.

We then have 5 remaining split games - 15 points...

Now we have a few problems.......

-We have only won 1 game this season..
-We don't win 2 games in a row...
-We have only won 1 league away game in 2024..our away form is worst in the league.
- Home form is 9th in league but only 1 point above worst home form in 12th Killie
-We still have 7 games (21 points up for grabs) till January window opens - we rarely sign on Jan 1st. We play St Johnstone away January 2nd.
-Our crap derby record..
-St Johnstone / Hearts / Killie / Ross County / Dundee - if these teams above us keep picking up points like at the weekend the gap widens even if we start winning games.

We are in a really bad situation especially if teams above us keep picking up points. January can't come quick enough. I have zero faith in those running the club they will get us this mess but right now 10th or above would be a miracle.

[The_Todd]

Sadly I think it is gap only going to increase over next few games.
As well as being gutless and rudderless we seem to be plagued with the bad luck which relegated teams seem to suffer.

Perversely might take us going down to trigger a full reset and clear out just like 2014

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

[Liberal Hibby]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

:top marks

[Paulie Walnuts]

No.

It’s a very real possibility. It could even be argued we may be favourites. It’s far from a formality though. We’re 1 point away from hearts for starters.

[Trinity Hibee]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

👏🏻

[GreenCastle]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

100%

It wasn’t that long ago I was thinking it’s mad to think we were relegated not so long ago.

To go down again with the stadium / hospitality/ training ground etc would just be a total failure and the board should then be chased out the stadium.

[expresso]

100%

It wasn’t that long ago I was thinking it’s mad to think we were relegated not so long ago.

To go down again with the stadium / hospitality/ training ground etc would just be a total failure and the board should then be chased out the stadium.

Not to me the fans, support we took to Dens in the circumstances was unbelievable

[Hibees1973]

There is little doubt if Ian Gordon & Kensell continue to pull the strings at the club we will go down.

I'm no Black Knight fan. I wish Ian Gordon and Kensell didn't sell 25% of the club to them. It makes the whole structure of the club fragile and will make decision making less clear.

Ian Gordon can't sell the club overnight so we are stuck with him and Kensell for some time. However, due to the mess they have made of things they should take a step back and leave football operations to the Black Knight group. I fear The Black Knight group will not appoint the likes of McInnes or Robinson. This is who we really need just now. A manager with experience of the SPFL and knock some sense into the clowns we have playing for us.

It's likely the Black Knight group will be unable to read the room like Ian Gordon & Kensell and go for some fantasy project manager who will not improve us.

We need to look short term to get out of the hole we are in. The best chance of this would be McInnes or Robinson.

[makaveli1875]

We don't score en9ugh goals , concede too many sloppy goals , the keepers ***** and were easy to beat . That says relegation material to me . We're on a horrendous run of form

[Jamesie]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

Agreed - only 16 years between 1998 and 2014 too, and we poured in resource to escape the First Division on the first attempt on that occasion - which, if it hadn’t been for the Golden Generation and their transfer fees, could have come back to seriously haunt us.

When you think even further back, only 18 years between 1980 and 1998 too. For a club with Hibs’ base and resources, three relegations in the space of 34 years (hopefully not to be four within the space of 44) seems ridiculous.

[He's here!]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

The reset was fine. It was integral to us winning the Scottish Cup. The Gordons buying the club is the direct cause of all our problems.

[He's here!]

Agreed - only 16 years between 1998 and 2014 too, and we poured in resource to escape the First Division on the first attempt on that occasion - which, if it hadn’t been for the Golden Generation and their transfer fees, could have come back to seriously haunt us.

When you think even further back, only 18 years between 1980 and 1998 too. For a club with Hibs’ base and resources, three relegations in the space of 34 years (hopefully not to be four within the space of 44) seems ridiculous.

Hearts have been relegated 5 times in a roughly similar timespan. Both clubs have too often been utterly pathetic in relation to their potential/size. The combined trophy haul is woeful.

When we lived in Glasgow I quite often heard it said that Edinburgh 'isn't really a football city'.

[GreenCastle]

Looking at the SPL history..assuming Wiki is correct..

Hibs sit 7th behind Motherwell, Killie, Rangers, Celtic , Hearts and Aberdeen.

If we get relegated Dundee Utd could easily over take us to 8th in SPL history.

[Pagan Hibernia]

If I'm honest, Hibs being relegated just ten years later indicates that a proper reset didn't really help long term.

Without sounding too entitled a club with the resources of Hibernian shouldn't ever be in this position. Ever. Let alone twice in ten years.

The 2014 reset was absolutely necessary and put the club in a great position to move forward.

The problem is there was another quite unnecessary reset done 5 years later which completely undid all that good work.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Of the two relegations that I have living memory of - 1997/98 and 2013/14 - both were preceded by decent starts to the season followed by falling off a cliff edge in terms of collapse.

In the former, we only lost one out our first eight matches, including a win over Celtic on the opening day; in the latter, I recall we were sitting third at around this point of the season and nobody in their right mind would have believed, after winning the Derby on 2 January, that we would go on to win only one of the following eighteen league matches.

My point is this: never can I recall a Hibs team in my lifetime having a stronger second half to the season than the first, and thus for this squad to turn things around around, they need to buck that trend quite significantly.

I’m hearing that a lot of our commercial blazers are talking, somewhat optimistically and naively in my view, of the need for “just one win” to immediately ignite a renaissance. It is very similar to some of the “just one goal” chat I recall from 1997/98 / 2013/14, when, in both instances, converting two of our draws to wins would have seen relegation avoided. I think these guys need to learn from the history books.

2017-18

[Jamesie]

2017-18

That’s fair.

[Pagan Hibernia]

That’s fair.

There really isn't many others though so your point is correct!

[Ronniekirk]

The general consensus among our group last night was 'we're ****ed'. We look like a team that has accepted their fate. There doesn't seem one big character who is going to grab this by the scruff of the neck and drag us to safety. Plenty players willing to talk a big game but we've heard it all before from most of them. Very few willing to back up the words with actions.

With the benefit of a goods night sleep I'm not sure it is a formality. A very real possibility, maybe even highly probable but with so many points to play for we can't just chuck in the towel as fans.

Loads of points to play for but unfortunately this group of players and management team look incapable of winning many points I can’t see anything that gray is doing thst makes me think he can turn this round lack of discipline is a huge problem that’s not been addressed . Worst scorers in league despite bringing in a number of forward players ,
A dodgy goalkeeper that can’t be dropped as the no 2 isn’t up to much .
A defence that can’t keep clean sheets or defend a lead
Lack of creativity in midfield
Poor substitutions that in the main seem to make us worse
I will always support my team but I have given up hope we can avoid the drop as things stand
It will depend what the new guy from bornmouth can do recruitment and any other changes we make
But by the time that happens we are likely to be in a worse situation
I just mid it staggering that with all the new investment and structural changes and new posts created we have managed to get worse I didn’t think that was possible
Apologies for the negativity but am scunnerred by what’s happening to my Club

[Tambo]

After the St Mirren game I thought to myself it could be a possibility, we then get a couple days of media coverage for how poor we are, we get a statement from someone at the club.

Going into yesterday I honestly thought Gray had learned from mistakes before, no doubt the sending off so early was a blow, we did start well but Dundee possibly would have gotten back into the match so no idea what the full time would have ended up with 11 Vs 11 on the pitch.

Even the starting lineup never gave us confidence and again the subs and timing of subs added in with game management gray seemed to have not learnt anything.

Didn't really see much desire with 10 men and it was like the players knew what the outcome would be.

Gray has two games to try something different and must come away with 6 points or at a minimum 4 points in the next two games, our upcoming games doesn't look good based on form.

[Waxy]

This is this first time i rmember thinking we’re probably going down.

[Coco Bryce]

I get the impression from these players they have accepted this team are relegated.

Zero fight or passion from any of them.

[Hamish]

Bookies have us very slight favourites v Aberdeen

[Cabbage-Patch]

Unless there is unprecedented spending in January which I can't see then yes. This squad has all the hallmarks of a relegation side. Even a new manager if they were to hit the ground running with reinforcements in January will struggle to keep this side up. Has the hallmarks of a McLeish vibe about it.

I would seriously love someone to do a deep dive on all the players we have signed since the Gordon's took over (supposedly around 80....)and money spent and rank them all because I'm struggling to find many pass marks.

Some are saying relegation may be a good thing, chance for a reset etc well I don't see it at that way. The affect on our finances would be catastrophic and I dont trust the Gordon's not to just cut and run and sell the club to the 1st willing bidder. I also wouldn't take it granted that the Knights will step in and take over either. If what I've been told by a trusted source is true then Foley is far from happy at his investment so far and has openly spoke of his regret and that he has actually withheld some of the 6 million as a result. Whether it's true or not our club is in a shameful state due to the mismanagement of our supposedly golden quadrant leaders..

[Stevie Reid]

We’re currently four points adrift of safety. After our next six games we’ll be halfway through the season, and those include Aberdeen home and away, and trips to Hearts and Celtic.

Can’t see any way that we are not completely cut adrift after that. Can’t see any way we could work the kind of miracles that would be required in January in order to stay up.

[easty]

Bookies have us very slight favourites v Aberdeen

Naw they dinnae

Well 365 and Hills don’t anyway

[Paulie Walnuts]

Naw they dinnae

Well 365 and Hills don’t anyway

William Hill do? Remarkably.

[hibsbollah]

‘A formality’ is of course way too strong.

Hearts are as usual getting nowhere near our negative media coverage but they are 1point ahead of us after playing a game more. Ross County and St Johnstone looked poor teams to me and could easily go on a losing run.Im not confident in this group of players but its far from over. Saying that its all over in November makes no sense.

[Hibernian Verse]

SkyBet have us as slight favourites too

[Gettin' Auld]

A formality? It's november for **** sake.

Of course things aren't looking good and changes need to be made, the sooner the better.

[JohnM1875]

A formality? It's november for **** sake.

Of course things aren't looking good and changes need to be made, the sooner the better.

It's a third of the way through the season and we've won one game. Granted not a formality, but it's looking increasingly likely.

[Greenio]

Naw

I see us scraping to safety thanks to some jan signings (striker, mid n gk) and moving on those that need gone - Youhan first and foremost.

Formality my arse

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's a third of the way through the season and we've won one game. Granted not a formality, but it's looking increasingly likely.

It’s definitely looking more likely. Win on Tuesday though and we’re not even in an automatic relegation spot anymore. So it’s an absolute mile from a formality.

[GreenCastle]

‘A formality’ is of course way too strong.

Hearts are as usual getting nowhere near our negative media coverage but they are 1point ahead of us after playing a game more. Ross County and St Johnstone looked poor teams to me and could easily go on a losing run.Im not confident in this group of players but its far from over. Saying that its all over in November makes no sense.

In typical Hibs fashion we could be off the bottom of the league and several points clear of Hearts if we had picked up more than 2 points out of 12 in our last 4 games.

Hearts had a tough run of games playing Celtic and Rangers and Aberdeen next.

Our game tomorrow night is our game in hand and I would be amazed if Aberdeen lose 2 in a row considering the run they have been on.

St Johnstone’s new manager has won more league games in a month (3 games) than Gray has in the last 4 months yet somehow Gray is still in a job.

[WestStandWillie]

I'm struggling to find plus points for why we won't get relegated.

I have zero faith in the playing squad (with the exception of Bowie), got a board of directors who are about as much use as a pogo-stick in quicksand, a manager who's too stubborn to accept his mistakes and a coaching team full of losers.

There were ugly scenes when Hamilton relegated us, I dread to think what would happen this time round.

[Exuberance1875]

You have been at it for weeks now.

Maybe because it’s glaringly obvious how bad we are?

We’ve got a keeper that doesn’t save anything, defenders that canny defend, midfielders that canny pass and strikers that canny score.

But apart from that we are cooking with gas.

No allowed to say Hibs are poor on here without being called a hearts fan

[He's here!]

It’s definitely looking more likely. Win on Tuesday though and we’re not even in an automatic relegation spot anymore. So it’s an absolute mile from a formality.

Hard to imagine anyone thinks we'll win tomorrow. Place will be morgue-like, bar the Aberdeeen fans.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hard to imagine anyone thinks we'll win tomorrow. Place will be morgue-like, bar the Aberdeeen fans.

I don’t think we will. But when you’re one win away from escaping automatic relegation with 25 games to go then it’s most definitely not a formality.

[matty_f]

I think that we’re in real danger of going down unless there’s almost immediate intervention - we can’t do much with the squad until January, but we could do with bringing in help to the first team to work with Gray if he’s staying.

The situation is genuinely dire. There is nothing about this team that gives any indication of turning things around - we are getting worse on the evidence of the last two games.

If the club do nothing, we will get relegated, imho.

[Coco Bryce]

I think that we’re in real danger of going down unless there’s almost immediate intervention - we can’t do much with the squad until January, but we could do with bringing in help to the first team to work with Gray if he’s staying.

The situation is genuinely dire. There is nothing about this team that gives any indication of turning things around - we are getting worse on the evidence of the last two games.

If the club do nothing, we will get relegated, imho.

We need to admit here that Gray is clearly not up to the job and probably never will be. We also can't keep him if a new guy comes in as he's part of the problem.

[marinello59]

Hard to imagine anyone thinks we'll win tomorrow. Place will be morgue-like, bar the Aberdeeen fans.

We can win. It depends how Aberdeen react after getting beat on Saturday. And they won’t want to be the team that we end our losing streak against. Unlikely I know but not impossible even for this Hibs team.

[hibsbollah]

I don’t think we will. But when you’re one win away from escaping automatic relegation with 25 games to go then it’s most definitely not a formality.

Indeed :agree:

Are we rubbish? Aye. Does that override basic arithmetic? Naw.

Its not a formality.

[joe breezy]

I had a sense of optimism when we were on the verge of sacking Nick Montgomery.

Really thought it would be part of a positive transformation.

I also had a sense of optimism when there was going to be a Black Knights football review.

We have managed to make it much worse.

I have zero optimism now.

I'd be quite shocked if we beat Aberdeen this week.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I had a sense of optimism when we were on the verge of sacking Nick Montgomery.

Really thought it would be part of a positive transformation.

I also had a sense of optimism when there was going to be a Black Knights football review.

We have managed to make it much worse.

I have zero optimism now.

I'd be quite shocked if we beat Aberdeen this week.

That's pretty much where I am too.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Indeed :agree:

Are we rubbish? Aye. Does that override basic arithmetic? Naw.

Its not a formality.

:agree:

It has to be remembered that we’re over a third of the way through the season now and hearts are showing themselves to be every bit as bad as us. That’s despite a change of manager who they’ll have to stick with for a fair amount of time. We can at least make a change in the managerial position right now if we decide to, they can’t. At this point in time I’d suggest they’re every bit as likely to finish bottom as we are.

[AndyM_1875]

The danger is that the Board let this situation drift and fail to act.

We need to learn from our history as that was what happened in 97/98. The team had flattered to deceive earlier in the season but really it was terrible and filled with substandard players and a manager who was totally out of his depth.
On the back of a horrific run of form he gets a fighting draw at Tynecastle and the board don't pull the trigger. By the time the roof falls in away at Motherwell (6-2 defeat) it's too late for the new manager, Alex Mcleish, (a good and very capable manager) to sort the problem. We get a load of fighting draws and a derby victory but it's too little too late to make up the ground.

That is the scenario that I am worried about happening again.

[Hamish]

Naw they dinnae

Well 365 and Hills don’t anyway

Bet 365 at 8am this morning had us at 13/8 and them at
17/10

I appreciate the price has changed now

[Alfred E Newman]

It's not a formality but we need to be picking up a point a game to reach 38 points which might be enough but one look at the squad tells you that's a tall order.

[LunasBoots]

We don't look like winning many games this season and our overall form for a while looks like that'll continue to be the case this season, just hope we can pick up enough to keep us safe, stay in touch until January then get some decent reinforcements in.

[ancient hibee]

The draws are killing us. Six teams have lost more goals than us. Five teams have lost more or as many games as us out of the last six games. Failure to score goals is our biggest problem-either through missing chances or the manager not going for it when we’re ahead. It’s no formality.

[ekhibee]

If people do think it is a formality then you can get 6/1 on us finishing bottom with Betfred ( 3rd favourites for the drop). Starsports had us a 20/1 last week to go down which was ridiculous odds given how bad we have been.

St Johnstone are the bookies favourites at all bookies, 5/4 at Betfred. Ross County 9/4.

Just in case anybodies interested, the 20/1 is still available, I just had a look at odds checker.

[TrinityHFC]

We don't look like winning many games this season and our overall form for a while looks like that'll continue to be the case this season, just hope we can pick up enough to keep us safe, stay in touch until January then get some decent reinforcements in.

Not sure it has to continue like this. We’ve had games that we’ve chucked away great positions through a combination of different ways of shooting ourselves in the foot. Are we really going to have red cards, last minute penalties etc for the rest of the season?

We might, but I don’t think that will go on forever. A couple of wins (I know actually need to do that) and confidence does wonders for decision making.

I’m concerned but not panicking just yet.

[Broken Gnome]

Just in case anybodies interested, the 20/1 is still available, I just had a look at odds checker.

Star Sports seemed to take that market down on Sunday, despite what Oddschecker says.

Entertainingly, Bet365 had us 1000/1 to win the league after the Dundee game. Hearts were 2000/1.

[Broxburn Greens]

I had a sense of optimism when we were on the verge of sacking Nick Montgomery.

Really thought it would be part of a positive transformation.

I also had a sense of optimism when there was going to be a Black Knights football review.

We have managed to make it much worse.

I have zero optimism now.

I'd be quite shocked if we beat Aberdeen this week.

Top post, sums it perfectly for me. Glad I'm not the only one who's gone through that set of emotions regarding Hibs over the last few months.

Genuinely thought that getting the tie in with the BK could have been a game changer, provided we didn't just roll over to Bournemouth on everything and take their "project players". Initially I was pleased that seemed to be the case and Hibs were standing up for ourselves.

Sadly though, we appear to have made such a mess of it there is simply no hope or optimism at all just now and the "leadership" just seem totally apathetic to the entire situation.

Seriously considering that our ST seats will be empty tomorrow as it's difficult to face it, but just checked the forecast there and it looks like a calm, dry early winter evening so without the added excuse of bad weather we'll likely make the drive through then at the end wonder why we didn't just stay in the house.

Can't even laugh at Hearts for how bad they are this season as in true Hibs fashion only we could be worse.

Sad times.

[ekhibee]

Star Sports seemed to take that market down on Sunday, despite what Oddschecker says.

Entertainingly, Bet365 had us 1000/1 to win the league after the Dundee game. Hearts were 2000/1.

Yeh, the best price I can see after that is just over 8/1, St Johnstone still clear fav for relegation at the moment.

[greenlex]

Not yet.

[Broxburn Greens]

Just in case anybodies interested, the 20/1 is still available, I just had a look at odds checker.

Probably worth a thought if that's the price still. A little tempted put £100 on it.

£2000 would take a little bit of the sting out of finishing bottom, would I pay £100 for Hibs to stay up, of course I would.

That said & I'm assuming the 20/1 is to finish bottom here with my luck, I place that bet we'll get relegated through the play offs!

I mean, I couldn't even get a coupon up yesterday waiting on Man Utd :rolleyes:

[Trinity Hibee]

Yes

[Keith_M]

Dunno about anybody else but I have a feeling we might just narrowly avoid it now.

[ChicoM1875]

Defeatist pish

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

Dunno about anybody else but I have a feeling we might just narrowly avoid it now.

:thumbsup:

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Dunno about anybody else but I have a feeling we might just narrowly avoid it now.

We won't be 12th, but it's still quite possible that we slip back into the playoff place, gap currently 6 points, could be less by this time tomorrow. League is ridiculously tight, though we are closer to 2nd than 12th currently
.

[expresso]

OP talking out of his a** lol
Some turnaround hopefully we get a signing or 2 before month end
Gray certainly has justified some support

[Pretty Boy]

I suppose we are still closer to 11th than we are to 3rd.

I have no idea what I said earlier on this thread and I can't be bothered to check but if this was started around the time of the Dundee game then I'm certain I'd have said relegation was a real possibility. At that point it was. We had just been humped, we had been on a terrible run, we had 2 tough games ahead and the atmosphere was poisonous.

Thankfully it went the other way and we are looking up now. Obviously it would be just as daft to say top 6 or Europe are a formality though. Everyone is capable of taking points off everyone else and a couple of bad results and we could be sliding the other way again.

There is perhaps a lesson about not looking too far ahead either way to be learned.

[allezsauzee]

We won't be 12th, but it's still quite possible that we slip back into the playoff place, gap currently 6 points, could be less by this time tomorrow. League is ridiculously tight, though we are closer to 2nd than 12th currently
.

Possible but highly unlikely. The 6 point cushion isn't much but the team are playing with confidence and have momentum. More so than the teams immediately above us so if i was going to bet on us finishing higher or lower than 6th, I'd go higher.

[Hibby70]

Based on what I watched today I'm pretty confident we'll finish above Motherwell. Might not be top 6 but we won't be 11th (or 12th)

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

I suppose we are still closer to 11th than we are to 3rd.

I have no idea what I said earlier on this thread and I can't be bothered to check but if this was started around the time of the Dundee game then I'm certain I'd have said relegation was a real possibility. At that point it was. We had just been humped, we had been on a terrible run, we had 2 tough games ahead and the atmosphere was poisonous.

Thankfully it went the other way and we are looking up now. Obviously it would be just as daft to say top 6 or Europe are a formality though. Everyone is capable of taking points off everyone else and a couple of bad results and we could be sliding the other way again.

There is perhaps a lesson about not looking too far ahead either way to be learned.

I have to agree PB. Back in November, after the Dundee game I think most of us thought we were struggling and could end up in a relegation fight. It's all relevant to where you are at the time.

I tend to avoid posting during games, because things can change so quickly during a game you can look like an idiot when results change. The recent game against the Huns being an obvious one. After 20 minutes we looked down and out, we were awful and looking like a pumping, people were posting we were getting pumped, at the end we could have won the game. Point being, we can all post what we think at the time, it's not what actually happens. It's all objective.

[HoboHarry]

Based on what I watched today I'm pretty confident we'll finish above Motherwell. Might not be top 6 but we won't be 11th (or 12th)

If we finish above Motherwell (I think we will) we will almost certainly be in the top 6.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Possible but highly unlikely. The 6 point cushion isn't much but the team are playing with confidence and have momentum. More so than the teams immediately above us so if i was going to bet on us finishing higher or lower than 6th, I'd go higher.

5 points now - not a lot at all, but neither is the 6 points behind 4th.

[B.H.F.C]

Relegation was never a formality.

When this thread was started I didn’t think Gray was the man to change our fortunes and get them performing though. It’s not the best squad in the world but it was always better than what we’d seen to that point.

[Paul1642]

I suppose we are still closer to 11th than we are to 3rd.

A lot of teams who weren’t even thinking about relegation a month ago must be slightly worried now.

Outwith the old firm only Aberdeen and Dundee United are more than 7 points away from the playoff with 15 games to play.

If St Johnstone weren’t so crap this would be the tightest league from 3rd to 12th I’ve ever seen.

[Wilson]

It is a formality for St Johnstone.

[keep the faith]

Some belting posts from some prominent posters on this thread!!

Let's hope some can learn from this when we have another bad result (hopefully no time soon!)

[Dashing Bob S]

Fans criticize when the team is doing badly, praise them when it’s going well. It’s over the top nonsense out that’s part of the fun of it. The term ‘fan’ is derived from ‘fanatic’ after all.

There’s nothing rational about supporting a football club. But the nature of social media and online culture is that we all become defensive narcissists, going through all sorts of ridiculous contortions to ‘prove’ the validity of our fleeting views, or castigate others for having opposing ones.

We should enjoy our nonsense for what it is without taking it too seriously.

[matty_f]

Fans criticize when the team is doing badly, praise them when it’s going well. It’s over the top nonsense out that’s part of the fun of it. The term ‘fan’ is derived from ‘fanatic’ after all.

There’s nothing rational about supporting a football club. But the nature of social media and online culture is that we all become defensive narcissists, going through all sorts of ridiculous contortions to ‘prove’ the validity of our fleeting views, or castigate others for having opposing ones.

We should enjoy our nonsense for what it is without taking it too seriously.

Exactly this.

Football’s never ending, you’re never right or wrong for long so the best you can do is call it as you see it and be prepared to change your mind as the evidence changes. It’s all good fun.

[hibsbollah]

Fans criticize when the team is doing badly, praise them when it’s going well. It’s over the top nonsense out that’s part of the fun of it. The term ‘fan’ is derived from ‘fanatic’ after all.

There’s nothing rational about supporting a football club. But the nature of social media and online culture is that we all become defensive narcissists, going through all sorts of ridiculous contortions to ‘prove’ the validity of our fleeting views, or castigate others for having opposing ones.

We should enjoy our nonsense for what it is without taking it too seriously.

Nonsense.



It’s short for ‘fandan’ :greengrin

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Remarkable to think this thread is only seven weeks old.
Wonder where we will be in another seven weeks time.

[Unseen work]

I thought we were done for, I just had no faith whatsoever that we would turn it round

The club, board, manager and players deserve an astronomical amount of credit for different reasons.

Well done to all.

Couple of quality signings in January and let’s really push on. The club, BK etc must be looking at the league and thinking everything is up for grabs

Oh, and get Triantis permanently

[Jim Herriot]

Remarkable to think this thread is only seven weeks old.
Wonder where we will be in another seven weeks time.
Is the Champions League a formality now?

[hibsbollah]

I don't think the OP understands what formality means.

The best post on this thread.

[TelaStella]

I thought we were done for, I just had no faith whatsoever that we would turn it round

The club, board, manager and players deserve an astronomical amount of credit for different reasons.

Well done to all.

Couple of quality signings in January and let’s really push on. The club, BK etc must be looking at the league and thinking everything is up for grabs

Oh, and get Triantis permanently

Arguably apart from hiring gray, what credit does the bored merit for these last 7 weeks?


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[Donegal Hibby]

It is a formality for St Johnstone.

Yep .. though who’s going to end up in the playoff place? . Ross county probably favourites though had a few good results and I wonder if there is somebody else who might be a possibility.

[Onion]

Been weirdest of seasons. Hibs recovery as bonkers as Aberdeen's collapse. No one, and I mean not one person saw that combination just 7 or 8 weeks ago. There is no logic for either, so anyone trying to predict the rest of the season is simply guessing. Just got to hope Hibs can keep the good form going.

[Danderhall Hibs]

40/1 after first game of the season was too good to turn down. Writing was on the wall then

Did you take this price? How much will you win?

Had a quick look and you can get 200/1 now - worth a punt.

[Pretty Boy]

Been weirdest of seasons. Hibs recovery as bonkers as Aberdeen's collapse. No one, and I mean not one person saw that combination just 7 or 8 weeks ago. There is no logic for either, so anyone trying to predict the rest of the season is simply guessing. Just got to hope Hibs can keep the good form going.

:agree:

I think people need to bear that in mind.

10 games ago I wonder how many saw Hibs going on a run of winning 6, drawing 3 and losing 1. I'm sure loads will claim they 'saw the signs' with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight but if people are truly honest with themselves the answer is that no one saw this coming. Likewise how may foresaw Aberdeen over the same period going won 0, drew 4 and lost 6? Again most would have expected their early season form to drop off a bit but I don't believe anyone saw such a monumental collapse coming. The league is so tight and so many teams are evenly matched. We have picked up good points against Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts but then dropped point to St Johnstone, Ross County and Kilmarnock. For as much as no one saw this good run coming, no one can have too much confidence in predicting the next 10 games either surely. With a league as tight as this it doesn't take much for 1 bad result to become a run of 3, 4 or 5.

I know some will read that and call it defeatist or negative but I would say realistic. As you say the league season has been totally weird. The only team, Celtic aside, who haven't had a really bad spell yet are Dundee United. Their worst spell was 3 games without a win featuring 2 defeats and a draw. By contrast Hibs had 9 games without a win, Hearts 6 games, Aberdeen 11 games, Dundee 5 games, Kilmarnock 6 games x 2 and St Mirren have had 4 defeats on the bounce twice including their current run. It feels to me like it is going to be nip and tuck right up until the split with teams continuing to take points off each other.

[erin go bragh]

Been weirdest of seasons. Hibs recovery as bonkers as Aberdeen's collapse. No one, and I mean not one person saw that combination just 7 or 8 weeks ago. There is no logic for either, so anyone trying to predict the rest of the season is simply guessing. Just got to hope Hibs can keep the good form going.

When Aberdeen went 3-2 up against us in stoppage time, they were 28 pts above us. Now the gap is 6pts. Unbelievable Jeff.

[Hibs Go Bragh]

Yep .. though who’s going to end up in the playoff place? . Ross county probably favourites though had a few good results and I wonder if there is somebody else who might be a possibility.

I think the bottom 3 will be St. Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Ross County.

We could be doing with one or both of them falling off a cliff Aberdeen style just as a safety net, starting in 2 weeks time.

[Wilson]

I think the bottom 3 will be St. Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Ross County.

We could be doing with one or both of them falling off a cliff Aberdeen style just as a safety net, starting in 2 weeks time.

Derek McInnes will steer Killie away. St Mirren a shout? They are seventh currently but only Aberdeen and St Johnstone are worse for current form.

[TrinityHFC]

Arguably apart from hiring gray, what credit does the bored merit for these last 7 weeks?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sacking him?

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm surprised i've not contributed to this thread before, but when it started we were awful.That team upto then were as bad a team as any relegated team i've seen at Hibs.

Of course it was not a formality, but the lack of quality, team spirit and goalkeeping was a sure fire reason we would not win many games and struggle point wise over the course.

People had resons to be optimistic, we'd been promised good players, European League football and the best of the rest from our owners, and we were bottom of the league.

Of course folk were unhappy, of course folk were looking down rather than up.

I'm happy now, i'm not over the moon at us 6th, but it is progress from earlier in the season.

I'm looking upwards now, but wouldnt be surprised if we dropped positions, probably because it's Hibs and they normally let us down, but if the structure at the club HAS changed, and we dont no have that idiot running things, then maybe we have turned the corner, and we can look forward and upwards with expectation rather than trepadation at the future?

The next window does give us a chance to rebuild with real quality, it's not an exact science, but we have a lot of players who are out of contract who have contributed nothing for us, with the BK group helping, please get us some better players who will improve us, not just fill spaces in the squad.

We have 4 or 5 players in this team who are playing now who should be squad players, players who make us stronger as a whole, but only if they are replaced by better.:pray:

[Hibs Go Bragh]

Derek McInnes will steer Killie away. St Mirren a shout? They are seventh currently but only Aberdeen and St Johnstone are worse for current form.

It's bloody hard to predict! All these teams are capable of pulling out a result. St Mirren beat Rangers, Killie beat Aberdeen 4-0, County finally figured out how to win away etc.

They're all proving very annoying!

[hibsbollah]

:agree:

I think people need to bear that in mind.

10 games ago I wonder how many saw Hibs going on a run of winning 6, drawing 3 and losing 1. I'm sure loads will claim they 'saw the signs' with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight but if people are truly honest with themselves the answer is that no one saw this coming. Likewise how may foresaw Aberdeen over the same period going won 0, drew 4 and lost 6? Again most would have expected their early season form to drop off a bit but I don't believe anyone saw such a monumental collapse coming. The league is so tight and so many teams are evenly matched. We have picked up good points against Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts but then dropped point to St Johnstone, Ross County and Kilmarnock. For as much as no one saw this good run coming, no one can have too much confidence in predicting the next 10 games either surely. With a league as tight as this it doesn't take much for 1 bad result to become a run of 3, 4 or 5.

I know some will read that and call it defeatist or negative but I would say realistic. As you say the league season has been totally weird. The only team, Celtic aside, who haven't had a really bad spell yet are Dundee United. Their worst spell was 3 games without a win featuring 2 defeats and a draw. By contrast Hibs had 9 games without a win, Hearts 6 games, Aberdeen 11 games, Dundee 5 games, Kilmarnock 6 games x 2 and St Mirren have had 4 defeats on the bounce twice including their current run. It feels to me like it is going to be nip and tuck right up until the split with teams continuing to take points off each other.

I sat and watched Aberdeen beat the rangers 2-1 earlier this season, and i thought Wow, these guys are for real and are going to actually put in the best challenge to the duopoly in about 40 years. Sometimes its good to admit when i am totally wrong.

[WhileTheChief..]

The best post on this thread.

It's a post having a pop at another poster:rolleyes:

There's been some decent thoughts posted in this thread, the one you quoted doesn't come close to being the best unless you just like taking digs at folk.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think the bottom 3 will be St. Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Ross County.

We could be doing with one or both of them falling off a cliff Aberdeen style just as a safety net, starting in 2 weeks time.

The league’s bonkers this season as you could go right up to fifth place Motherwell who have only a 7 point advantage from the playoff position.

A few defeats and your right in it again.. I wonder how Dundee would cope if they lose both Cameron and Mulligan?.

Hard to say who’s going to be down there with St Johnstone as they all seem to be picking up points , would fancy most of the premier clubs to win the playoffs though it’s not a position anyone wants to be in come the end of the season.

[greenlex]

The league’s bonkers this season as you could go right up to fifth place Motherwell who have only a 7 point advantage from the playoff position.

A few defeats and your right in it again.. I wonder how Dundee would cope if they lose both Cameron and Mulligan?.

Hard to say who’s going to be down there with St Johnstone as they all seem to be picking up points , would fancy most of the premier clubs to win the playoffs though it’s not a position anyone wants to be in come the end of the season.
5th to 11th are all fighting to avoid the play off spot. Possibly Aberdeen in 4th too when you consider their current form. 5th to 11th are also fighting for 4th place and Europe. Chuck in I think Dundee Utd will eventually buckle as the late goals dry up and we are in for a great run in. Top 6 security has to be the intermediate goal and take it from there. Mon the Hibs.

[B.H.F.C]

5th to 11th are all fighting to avoid the play off spot. Possibly Aberdeen in 4th too when you consider their current form. 5th to 11th are also fighting for 4th place and Europe. Chuck in I think Dundee Utd will eventually buckle as the late goals dry up and we are in for a great run in. Top 6 security has to be the intermediate goal and take it from there. Mon the Hibs.

I think it’s a case of looking to guarantee top six as soon as we can and taking things from there. Based on last few years it could be anywhere between 40-45 points that does that. If we can win half our games between now and the split we’ll be OK. I’m pretty confident we’ll do that, I just hope we haven’t left ourselves too much to do in trying to catch Dundee Utd and Aberdeen. Obviously got to play them both twice and Dundee Utd are due a bit of a slump at some point. From what I’ve seen of them, I think their current position is more reflective of the rest than them being particularly good.

[Donegal Hibby]

5th to 11th are all fighting to avoid the play off spot. Possibly Aberdeen in 4th too when you consider their current form. 5th to 11th are also fighting for 4th place and Europe. Chuck in I think Dundee Utd will eventually buckle as the late goals dry up and we are in for a great run in. Top 6 security has to be the intermediate goal and take it from there. Mon the Hibs.

I’ve been expecting Dundee Utd to buckle at some point , think luck has certainly been on their side this season to a degree . I’ve seen them a few times and didn’t think they looked anything special , a bit like Aberdeen were at the start of the season in scraping results by the odd goal . I think 7 of their 10 wins have been by single goal too .

[tamig]

I think it’s a case of looking to guarantee top six as soon as we can and taking things from there. Based on last few years it could be anywhere between 40-45 points that does that. If we can win half our games between now and the split we’ll be OK. I’m pretty confident we’ll do that, I just hope we haven’t left ourselves too much to do in trying to catch Dundee Utd and Aberdeen. Obviously got to play them both twice and Dundee Utd are due a bit of a slump at some point. From what I’ve seen of them, I think their current position is more reflective of the rest than them being particularly good.
United are riding a crest of very good fortune at the moment. There’s no way it will last much longer. We should have had 6 out of 6 against them. Their performance at ER was one of the poorest I’ve seen from any visiting side this season. Goodwin should enjoy it while it lasts as its going to pop soon. I’m convinced of that.

[theonlywayisup]

United are riding a crest of very good fortune at the moment. There’s no way it will last much longer. We should have had 6 out of 6 against them. Their performance at ER was one of the poorest I’ve seen from any visiting side this season. Goodwin should enjoy it while it lasts as its going to pop soon. I’m convinced of that.

Was speaking to an Arab, who was at both games.

He couldn't believe that they'd been awarded a penalty. Virtually no-one in the ground had any idea why one was given.

In the match at Tannadice, he couldn't see a way back until Newell got himself sent off. But, for Hibs to lose that match was beyond any Arab's expectations.

[B.H.F.C]

United are riding a crest of very good fortune at the moment. There’s no way it will last much longer. We should have had 6 out of 6 against them. Their performance at ER was one of the poorest I’ve seen from any visiting side this season. Goodwin should enjoy it while it lasts as its going to pop soon. I’m convinced of that.

I think one thing you’d have to say for them just now is that they clearly have a really good spirit about them. The number of late goals they’re scoring doesn’t happen just by luck. Best defensive record outside the big two by a fair bit as well. All that said, we absolutely should have had six points from them rather than one.

[Fergus52]

:agree:

I think people need to bear that in mind.

10 games ago I wonder how many saw Hibs going on a run of winning 6, drawing 3 and losing 1. I'm sure loads will claim they 'saw the signs' with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight but if people are truly honest with themselves the answer is that no one saw this coming. Likewise how may foresaw Aberdeen over the same period going won 0, drew 4 and lost 6? Again most would have expected their early season form to drop off a bit but I don't believe anyone saw such a monumental collapse coming. The league is so tight and so many teams are evenly matched. We have picked up good points against Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts but then dropped point to St Johnstone, Ross County and Kilmarnock. For as much as no one saw this good run coming, no one can have too much confidence in predicting the next 10 games either surely. With a league as tight as this it doesn't take much for 1 bad result to become a run of 3, 4 or 5.

I know some will read that and call it defeatist or negative but I would say realistic. As you say the league season has been totally weird. The only team, Celtic aside, who haven't had a really bad spell yet are Dundee United. Their worst spell was 3 games without a win featuring 2 defeats and a draw. By contrast Hibs had 9 games without a win, Hearts 6 games, Aberdeen 11 games, Dundee 5 games, Kilmarnock 6 games x 2 and St Mirren have had 4 defeats on the bounce twice including their current run. It feels to me like it is going to be nip and tuck right up until the split with teams continuing to take points off each other.


A couple of the scottish football analytics guys on twitter called it, at that time Aberdeen had been massively overperforming their xG, moreso than anyone else in the league, while we were the biggest underperformers. It was always likely (but not guaranteed) that both sides would revert to the mean and go on a run of poor/good form.

My Aberdeen supporting mate I play 5s with had been reading similar stuff and predicted around early November that they would fall away and end up battling it out to cling on to 3rd, while we would likely go a wee winning run and get into the top 6.

[007]

A couple of the scottish football analytics guys on twitter called it, at that time Aberdeen had been massively overperforming their xG, moreso than anyone else in the league, while we were the biggest underperformers. It was always likely (but not guaranteed) that both sides would revert to the mean and go on a run of poor/good form.

My Aberdeen supporting mate I play 5s with had been reading similar stuff and predicted around early November that they would fall away and end up battling it out to cling on to 3rd, while we would likely go a wee winning run and get into the top 6.

Hopefully you'll soon be able to tell him he was nearly right but it's us battling for 3rd and Aberdeen clinging on to top 6.

[Lester B]

God I am so behind on things and playing catch up frantically.

So with reference to the original question: No

[Pagan Hibernia]

This thread has made mugs out of a few of us.

[Jones28]

It’s not a formality, but I’m completely setting myself up to see us relegated this season and anything else is a pleasant surprise.

I am pleasantly surprised.

[Pretty Boy]

This thread has made mugs out of a few of us.

Without reading back I don't think I agreed it was a formality but said it was a very real possibility.

Everyone always says 'I'll be delighted to be wrong' and someone alway comes back with 'aye so you will, no one really means that'.

I'd like to say that I am 100% delighted to be wrong.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Without reading back I don't think I agreed it was a formality but said it was a very real possibility.

Everyone always says 'I'll be delighted to be wrong' and someone alway comes back with 'aye so you will, no one really means that'.

I'd like to say that I am 100% delighted to be wrong.

I'm pretty sure I was certain we were doomed. Very happy to admit I know absolutely nothing.

[Bostonhibby]

This thread has made mugs out of a few of us.Count me in[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[tamig]

All good and well saying “I’d be delighted if I’m wrong” but some of the early comments on this thread are very poor. One thing it does highlight is the cliched fickleness of the football fan. In saying that, maybe some folk could learn by looking back at their comments and reflecting. Its something that’s seen on many matchday threads if we start poorly. The bedwetters wetting the bed then doing a swift 180 once things improve. Some will never learn or change.

[Donegal Hibby]

Count me in[emoji16]

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Watched an English game last season which was boring as hell , I don’t think either team had a shot at goal . The game had about half an hour to go . I came out with the ‘ this game has 0-0 written all over it , just after that… Wallop , one of the teams score 😆..

How many times have fans criticised a player only for them to create or score a goal . I think it’s in the football fans genes to get things wrong at times .. maybe that’s part of the fun of it all 😂

[expresso]

What idiot started this thread?

[B.H.F.C]

All good and well saying “I’d be delighted if I’m wrong” but some of the early comments on this thread are very poor. One thing it does highlight is the cliched fickleness of the football fan. In saying that, maybe some folk could learn by looking back at their comments and reflecting. Its something that’s seen on many matchday threads if we start poorly. The bedwetters wetting the bed then doing a swift 180 once things improve. Some will never learn or change.

It won’t ever change. Folk will just continue to say what they see at the time.

Relegation was never a formality but, when I walked out of Dens that night, I thought we were in big trouble and I thought Gray was finished.

It was clear things needed to change and what happened on the park that night coupled with the injury to Ekpiteta going in to the game forced some of the big changes. Had Ekpiteta not been injured I don’t think Rocky would have been back in. Had Obita not been sent off I don’t think we’d have changed the shape. Nicky Cadden actually started that game (and scored) on the right wing! It’s funny how things work out but those might have been the best injury and suspension we’ve ever had! What has happened since has been incredible.

[Centre Hawf]

What idiot started this thread?

To be fair to you, as great as things are currently, we were in such a hopeless place that it's taken a historic unbeaten league run to get us here. No one could have predicted that would happen in their wildest dreams when Aberdeen went ahead in injury time that night.

If we only achieved even 50% of what we have since this thread created we'd still have been looking over our shoulder at the likes of Dundee and Killie wondering if losing points to them could put us in trouble still.

[hibsbollah]

‘A formality’ is of course way too strong.

Hearts are as usual getting nowhere near our negative media coverage but they are 1point ahead of us after playing a game more. Ross County and St Johnstone looked poor teams to me and could easily go on a losing run.Im not confident in this group of players but its far from over. Saying that its all over in November makes no sense.

Humblebrag.

[Broken Gnome]

That first page is a belter - full of posters from all spectrums of optimism/pessimism united in the view we were doomed. Record low points totals, unable to see where any wins would come from...

Felt completely the same at the time. This team have been remarkable.

[Exuberance1875]

I think it’s all but confirmed to be fair, although clear out wise will be a bigger struggle as too many have deals running beyond this season

Isn’t it fantastic being right all the time….

Gladly eating humble pie on this one, didn’t see this turnaround coming but long may it continue

[Saint Hibee]

Relegation was never a formality, but it's fair to say that when this thread was started it did indeed look like a very distinct possibility.

[marinello59]

Who else scrolled back on this one thinking, oh no, what the **** did I say. :greengrin

Not my worst contribution I guess.

[Alex Trager]

It won’t ever change. Folk will just continue to say what they see at the time.

Relegation was never a formality but, when I walked out of Dens that night, I thought we were in big trouble and I thought Gray was finished.

It was clear things needed to change and what happened on the park that night coupled with the injury to Ekpiteta going in to the game forced some of the big changes. Had Ekpiteta not been injured I don’t think Rocky would have been back in. Had Obita not been sent off I don’t think we’d have changed the shape. Nicky Cadden actually started that game (and scored) on the right wing! It’s funny how things work out but those might have been the best injury and suspension we’ve ever had! What has happened since has been incredible.

I reflect on that period as we were mostly playing fairly meh to well but consistently shooting ourselves in the foot. The only times I can recall that not being the case were - Kelty Hearts, St Mirren second half, St Mirren at home, Dundee away.

None of the other games (from memory) did we ever look like we were deer in the headlights. It was all crazy mistakes that were punishing us. They were never going to last, however, it was quite quickly starting to feel like DG was not going to be the person to remove these mistakes from the players' games.

I actually texted my friends before the Aberdeen game saying I was sad that we were most likely a few hours away from not having SDG at the club anymore. Fortunately things turned around quite dramatically.

I am not so sure we will finish third yet, but to be confirmed in the top six with games to spare is a big relief considering where we were when this thread was started and our recent seasons.

I think the team are mostly producing fairly similar performances as they did at the start of the season, without the daft mistakes and we are reaping the rewards.

I am actually stunned that anyone, never mind us, have caught the sheep - they were an absolute stick on the be third for my money after their start. When you consider where we were in relation to them at the point of our first game Vs them, it is quite some story that we are sat in third at the minute.

The club should be completely delighted to be safe of relegation for certain considering where we were, and hopefully we can finish it all off with a £5/6M group stage.

My hat is completely tipped to all the hard work that has gone on to everyone at the club.

I was genuinely fearing we would be in the champ for the 150th season - well done everyone.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who else scrolled back on this one thinking, oh no, what the **** did I say. :greengrin

Not my worst contribution I guess.
:faf::agree:

[grunt]

What idiot started this thread?
:greengrin

[Baader]

Thankfully didn't contribute to this thread but that was more out of despair than disagreement.

After the Dundee debacle I was certain we would go down. Amazing the turnaround.

[Lester B]

Sorry for reviving this thread, I just thought it was interesting to see how far we'd come and a tip of the hat to those of you big enough to admit you were wrong. My personal favourite quote is from Page 1: "25 points for us right now feels a long way off.". It certainly does!! :faf::faf:

Right my work here is done. Anybody fancy looking for one of the classic 'Who would you keep' threads with various 'I'd get rid of them all' responses??

[The Harp Awakes]

Thankfully didn't contribute to this thread but that was more out of despair than disagreement.

After the Dundee debacle I was certain we would go down. Amazing the turnaround.

Same here. I didn't think it was ever a formality, but wasn't confident at that point we'd stay up.

[Centre Hawf]

Sorry for reviving this thread, I just thought it was interesting to see how far we'd come and a tip of the hat to those of you big enough to admit you were wrong. My personal favourite quote is from Page 1: "25 points for us right now feels a long way off.". It certainly does!! :faf::faf:

Right my work here is done. Anybody fancy looking for one of the classic 'Who would you keep' threads with various 'I'd get rid of them all' responses??

Don't. I said back in about September/October time that Nectar Triantis was the shining example of our poor recruitment again.

[flash]

My sole contribution was to have a pop at someone who said we were relegation certainties after the first game of the season so my conscience is clear.:greengrin

[Lester B]

Don't. I said back in about September/October time that Nectar Triantis was the shining example of our poor recruitment again.

I'm sure that wouldn't be the worst. Close to the worst but not the absolute worst. There must be a 'we only signed him because his brother is here' lurking within these virtual walls. And several Kwon looks good posts too

[theonlywayisup]

I gave this thread a body swerve from day one it was posted. I'm sorry, but I don't do negativity.

Even during the poor run of form, I was still 100% behind SDG. I truly believed we had such a poor run largely due to an unbelievable run of individual errors (too many to mention) along with some poor VAR decisions that had gone against us. In many of the games during this poor run, we were the better team on the day, but shot ourselves in the foot far too often.

That said, I was concerned about the quality across the team citing that we needed leaders to get us out of this mess, whilst being critical of Super Joe Newell and his inability to drive us forward.

However, I saw enough in the Aberdeen 3-3 game to give me the positivity I needed to state this team needed our support not the negativity rubbish that was being shouted from the stands.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I gave this thread a body swerve from day one it was posted. I'm sorry, but I don't do negativity.

Even during the poor run of form, I was still 100% behind SDG. I truly believed we had such a poor run largely due to an unbelievable run of individual errors (too many to mention) along with some poor VAR decisions that had gone against us. In many of the games during this poor run, we were the better team on the day, but shot ourselves in the foot far too often.

That said, I was concerned about the quality across the team citing that we needed leaders to get us out of this mess, whilst being critical of Super Joe Newell and his inability to drive us forward.

However, I saw enough in the Aberdeen 3-3 game to give me the positivity I needed to state this team needed our support not the negativity rubbish that was being shouted from the stands.

Well hats off. Your user name is fitting.

[Bostonhibby]

Watched an English game last season which was boring as hell , I don’t think either team had a shot at goal . The game had about half an hour to go . I came out with the ‘ this game has 0-0 written all over it , just after that… Wallop , one of the teams score [emoji38]..

How many times have fans criticised a player only for them to create or score a goal . I think it’s in the football fans genes to get things wrong at times .. maybe that’s part of the fun of it all [emoji23][emoji16]

Once went to a Boston Utd game where we all thought they'd done really well to get a fighting 2 -2 draw with high flying Swansea City, especially. Was a bit disappointing since Boston were winning with a few minutes left.

We drove the 28 miles home and went for a pint where we discovered Boston had actually lost 3-2[emoji16]

We did leave the pub a bit late but they normally waited for the pubs to empty before they kicked off at Boston[emoji16].

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

All good and well saying “I’d be delighted if I’m wrong” but some of the early comments on this thread are very poor. One thing it does highlight is the cliched fickleness of the football fan. In saying that, maybe some folk could learn by looking back at their comments and reflecting. Its something that’s seen on many matchday threads if we start poorly. The bedwetters wetting the bed then doing a swift 180 once things improve. Some will never learn or change.

At the same time, those of you saying we should have stuck with Montgomery should maybe have a wee think to themselves too?

If it wasn’t for folk calling for his head we might never have ended up with Gray in charge.

Sticking with a useless manager doesn’t help anyone.

[Chorley Hibee]

At the same time, those of you saying we should have stuck with Montgomery should maybe have a wee think to themselves too?

If it wasn’t for folk calling for his head we might never have ended up with Gray in charge.

Sticking with a useless manager doesn’t help anyone.

Correct.

I'm delighted I've been proved wrong regards Gray and the current group of players.

People digging up old threads to have a pop at others is pretty crap though.

Perhaps all the doom and gloom merchants (myself included) should dig out all the things we got right regards the mess we got ourselves into.

[Lester B]

Correct.

I'm delighted I've been proved wrong regards Gray and the current group of players.

People digging up old threads to have a pop at others is pretty crap though.

Perhaps all the doom and gloom merchants (myself included) should dig out all the things we got right regards the mess we got ourselves into.

It was me that revived the thread. Who did I have a pop at? I thought it was interesting how far we'd come and I gave credit in a subsequent post to those who were big enough to admit they had over reacted. That's great credit to them.

Lighten up a bit eh?

[NAE NOOKIE]

After checking this thread to make sure I hadn't posted on it I can now confirm I had absolutely no doubt we would get out of trouble :greengrin

[superfurryhibby]

Some of the comments :-)

[Danderhall Hibs]

It was me that revived the thread. Who did I have a pop at? I thought it was interesting how far we'd come and I gave credit in a subsequent post to those who were big enough to admit they had over reacted. That's great credit to them.

Lighten up a bit eh?

I started re reading the David Gray watch thread yesterday. Some mental takes - I would say with hindsight but some folk were saying it was mental back then too.

[evy]

It was me that revived the thread. Who did I have a pop at? I thought it was interesting how far we'd come and I gave credit in a subsequent post to those who were big enough to admit they had over reacted. That's great credit to them.

Lighten up a bit eh?

I see you haven't interacted with Chorley Hibee before...

[Stairway 2 7]

Can I insert a post saying imo we'll have the best run since the 40's

[tamig]

It won’t ever change. Folk will just continue to say what they see at the time.

Relegation was never a formality but, when I walked out of Dens that night, I thought we were in big trouble and I thought Gray was finished.

It was clear things needed to change and what happened on the park that night coupled with the injury to Ekpiteta going in to the game forced some of the big changes. Had Ekpiteta not been injured I don’t think Rocky would have been back in. Had Obita not been sent off I don’t think we’d have changed the shape. Nicky Cadden actually started that game (and scored) on the right wing! It’s funny how things work out but those might have been the best injury and suspension we’ve ever had! What has happened since has been incredible.

You’re spot on. My main doubt about Gray up to that point was that we hadn’t seen any attempts to change shape/formation. The apparent stubbornness was almost Montyesque. His hand may well have been forced by events but what a turnaround it has been. I’m just glad the board sat tight and didn’t do what many here were calling for.

[SHODAN]

All the momentum from the last couple of years pointed towards relegation.

The level of turnaround has been unprecedented.

[greenlex]

At the same time, those of you saying we should have stuck with Montgomery should maybe have a wee think to themselves too?

If it wasn’t for folk calling for his head we might never have ended up with Gray in charge.

Sticking with a useless manager doesn’t help anyone.
We will never know if Montgomery could have turned it round like Gray did as we sacked him. Who knows he might just have. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing.
If folk were wanting Monty out that vocally they would have been at the top of the list for wanting Gray out too.

[B.H.F.C]

You’re spot on. My main doubt about Gray up to that point was that we hadn’t seen any attempts to change shape/formation. The apparent stubbornness was almost Montyesque. His hand may well have been forced by events but what a turnaround it has been. I’m just glad the board sat tight and didn’t do what many here were calling for.

Just from a football point of view, that was my biggest issue at that point in time as well. We were setting up in a way that wasn’t getting the best out of anyone. It’s obviously hypothetical whether it would have been changed without those things happening, but I’m not convinced it would have been. If that was the bit of luck he needed, then he’s certainly made the most of it since then.

I don’t think we’ll ever see a manager that close to the sack ever again but manage to turn it round. And not just turn it round, turn it round like this. Can’t be lost that he must have been seconds away from the sack.

[Danderhall Hibs]

We will never know if Montgomery could have turned it round like Gray did as we sacked him. Who knows he might just have. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing.
If folk were wanting Monty out that vocally they would have been at the top of the list for wanting Gray out too.

Montgomery had nearly a full season in charge and if anything we were getting worse as time went on (exceptions like St Johnstone away). Gray was about 5 games in and folk were calling got his head - cheap option etc.

[Stuart93]

I wanted him gone early December, couldn’t believe we kept him.

Thank **** we did. I was completely wrong.

I’ve never seen a turnaround like it tbh, not in my time supporting hibs. Relegation was inevitable…now we’re in position for 3rd! Madness

[Wilson]

Perhaps all the doom and gloom merchants (myself included) should dig out all the things we got right regards the mess we got ourselves into.

All the things? You seem to have a high opinion of your opinion!

Let us all just enjoy the positive run. While we're on it. We don't, and won't, always have it so good.

[The Modfather]

Montgomery had nearly a full season in charge and if anything we were getting worse as time went on (exceptions like St Johnstone away). Gray was about 5 games in and folk were calling got his head - cheap option etc.

Gray also had a summer to prepare, a summer window to revamp the squad, a new footballing structure and the likes of Malky Mackay to help him and not trying to keep the Black Knights at arms length. I think Montgomery was dealt a bad hand and tasked with righting a poorly functioning ship. He clearly didn’t manage that but I bet he is looking on enviously at all the benefits Gray has had and wondering what if, had he been appointed a season later than he was.

Saying that, I can’t see Montgomery being able to rehabilitate the likes of Rocky, Levitt, NMW etc the way Gray has. So I’m not trying to talk up Monty or talk down the job Gray is doing.

[Dashing Bob S]

I thought this thread was negative at the time, but understandable. We had three years of mediocrity and had won one game in thirteen at the start of the season.

The good things is that should help us keep a healthy perspective now.

[Lester B]

I see you haven't interacted with Chorley Hibee before...

I take he's the sort of poster who makes Private Frazer from Dad's Army seem like the laughing policeman?

[Ozyhibby]

I hadn’t posted on this thread but that was probably oversight. Anyone who watched that game v Dundee could be forgiven for assuming the worst. Probably as bad a performance as I can remember from a Hibs team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

I hadn’t posted on this thread but that was probably oversight. Anyone who watched that game v Dundee could be forgiven for assuming the worst. Probably as bad a performance as I can remember from a Hibs team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s one game though and there’s others like the game at Ibrox where we played as well as I seen us play there in recent times , some of the performances apart from a few weren’t bad and more a case of individual errors that were costing us and at times it felt like we just weren’t getting the breaks too.

[Bostonhibby]

We will never know if Montgomery could have turned it round like Gray did as we sacked him. Who knows he might just have. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing.
If folk were wanting Monty out that vocally they would have been at the top of the list for wanting Gray out too.I never win anything but I was firmly in the Montgomery out camp and keep Gray in for the duration[emoji6]

Do I win a free Tuesday night in November in the Gorgie Savoy?

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[AmericanKev]

Yes, if we're talking about ST Johnstone

[Alfred E Newman]

It's not a formality but we need to be picking up a point a game to reach 38 points which might be enough but one look at the squad tells you that's a tall order.

Slaver

[Keith_M]

I take he's the sort of poster who makes Private Frazer from Dad's Army seem like the laughing policeman?


Nah, he makes Private Frazer look positively cheery in comparison


:wink:

[Skol]

At the same time, those of you saying we should have stuck with Montgomery should maybe have a wee think to themselves too?

If it wasn’t for folk calling for his head we might never have ended up with Gray in charge.

Sticking with a useless manager doesn’t help anyone.

It’s possible if given time he may have had a full season like the second half of grays.

[TrinityHFC]

It’s possible if given time he may have had a full season like the second half of grays.

Nah.

[Chorley Hibee]

It’s possible if given time he may have had a full season like the second half of grays.

Gray is a lot more pragmatic in his approach to games than Montgomery ever was.

Montgomery is one of these dreadful coaches that are welded to a style of play most teams are unable to fulfil.

Gray has learnt, and continues to learn, from his mistakes, and has shown he's prepared to adapt.

Montgomery showed nothing to suggest he was learning from his repeated mistakes.

[Chorley Hibee]

All the things? You seem to have a high opinion of your opinion!

Let us all just enjoy the positive run. While we're on it. We don't, and won't, always have it so good.

You'll notice I used the term 'we' in my post.

So, yes, I do think many of the people on here who've been critical of the club, the various management staff, and many of the players, got a great deal of things correct regarding the mess of the last few years.

You'll also see that I held my hands up to getting this one wrong.

[Skol]

Gray is a lot more pragmatic in his approach to games than Montgomery ever was.

Montgomery is one of these dreadful coaches that is welded to a style of play most teams are unable to fulfil.

Gray has learnt, and continues to learn, from his mistakes, and has shown he's prepared to adapt.

Montgomery showed nothing to suggest he was learning from his repeated mistakes.
There was no sign of gray learning until he adapted. It’s still possible Montgomery if given time could have done the same.

Unlikely I agree but we will never know.

[JimBHibees]

There was no sign of gray learning until he adapted. It’s still possible Montgomery if given time could have done the same.

Unlikely I agree but we will never know.

Personally would have given Montgomery the summer but appreciate that is a minority view

[hibsbollah]

There was no sign of gray learning until he adapted. It’s still possible Montgomery if given time could have done the same.

Unlikely I agree but we will never know.

Its an interesting comment about Gray ‘learning’. We all learn all the time, but that suggests you think hes changed something he didn’t want to at first. I dont think Gray is doing much differently , tactically anyway. Our most regular complaints when we were losing is that he made weird subs. Now we’re winning, he still makes weird subs, or at least they seem so to me, but im no expert and we win or draw so it doesnt get a 20 page thread.

We’re winning because of great team spirit. Competent keeper. Three defenders at the top of their game. Boyle on form. Campbell on form, Triantis on form. Big physical fast players. Manager who is consistent.

What do you see that’s different tactically?

[Since452]

I'd almost erased Montgomery from my memory

[matty_f]

I'd almost erased Montgomery from my memory

Thankfully/unfortunately almost all of the performances under his time were easily forgettable.

[Brightside]

Interesting that those still going on about the failures with Montgomery are the same people who actively called for the removal of gray before this run of results. Yet there is “no chance” it would have got better under Monty. What a wonderful example of human nature.

[easty]

Interesting that those still going on about the failures with Montgomery are the same people who actively called for the removal of gray before this run of results. Yet there is “no chance” it would have got better under Monty. What a wonderful example of human nature.

Is it interesting?

I can't see how Gray succeeding tells any story about what would've happened to Monty if he'd been allowed to plod along.

[Centre Hawf]

Montgomery is an example of these modern coaches that come into jobs to imprint their philosophy to show off to future employers regardless of what results it gave them, or they'd just keep going until the results changed or the clubs gave up on it. I remember when they were punted from the club I think the guy Valerio was still on LinkedIn posting screenshots of play patterns during our games that they've worked on to obviously get the word out there of what they do. Which is fair enough, we all have to work and promote our work to live. But I think it shows that majority of these guys, Maloney included when here, they're not really adaptable coaches. They don't really learn to play the instrument and write their own music, they just learn the finger placement of the same song or two and beat you over the head with it until you realise its all they have.

Dave Gray at least took period after the Dundee game as the opportunity to change from his 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 type of play with wingers and has since exclusively used 5-3-2/3-5-2 depending on how you look at it, mostly because of the red cards/injuries at that time, the real question will be is can he switch it up one day again when required again and how long will he wait?

For now everything is brilliant and I'd be surprised if we change again between now and the summer, but will be interesting to see what we start pre-season with as the squad evolves.

[Hibernian Verse]

I wanted him gone early December, couldn’t believe we kept him.

Thank **** we did. I was completely wrong.

I’ve never seen a turnaround like it tbh, not in my time supporting hibs. Relegation was inevitable…now we’re in position for 3rd! Madness

This is it. This is my Hibs.net peak.

:greengrin

[Brightside]

Is it interesting?

I can't see how Gray succeeding tells any story about what would've happened to Monty if he'd been allowed to plod along.

It doesn’t but many including you are saying it couldn’t have happened for him.

[easty]

Dave Gray at least took period after the Dundee game as the opportunity to change from his 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 type of play with wingers and has since exclusively used 5-3-2/3-5-2 depending on how you look at it, mostly because of the red cards/injuries at that time, the real question will be is can he switch it up one day again when required again and how long will he wait?



He doesn't have to change it, as it's working.

I never thought we had a terrible squad under Monty or when we struggled under SDG in the early part of the season. I thought we were massively underperforming.

A manager needs to be able to get the best out of what he has available to him, and SDG has managed to find the way to do that. Monty wasn't even close previously.

It'll be interesting to see if Hibs/SDG/Malky decide to bolster positions within the system that's working, looking to upgrade the weakest parts of the team, or if we go out and see what quality we can bring in and then adapt the system to make it work best for the new players.

[Brightside]

Montgomery is an example of these modern coaches that come into jobs to imprint their philosophy to show off to future employers regardless of what results it gave them, or they'd just keep going until the results changed or the clubs gave up on it. I remember when they were punted from the club I think the guy Valerio was still on LinkedIn posting screenshots of play patterns during our games that they've worked on to obviously get the word out there of what they do. Which is fair enough, we all have to work and promote our work to live. But I think it shows that majority of these guys, Maloney included when here, they're not really adaptable coaches. They don't really learn to play the instrument and write their own music, they just learn the finger placement of the same song or two and beat you over the head with it until you realise its all they have.

Dave Gray at least took period after the Dundee game as the opportunity to change from his 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 type of play with wingers and has since exclusively used 5-3-2/3-5-2 depending on how you look at it, mostly because of the red cards/injuries at that time, the real question will be is can he switch it up one day again when required again and how long will he wait?

For now everything is brilliant and I'd be surprised if we change again between now and the summer, but will be interesting to see what we start pre-season with as the squad evolves.

Just to stick up for Monty. He came with an expectation that he would implement his style on the team and he would be given time to do that. In reality you just don’t get that in Scotland or indeed with many teams. Another failed experiment and another example of poor senior leadership. He probably should never have been approached.

[easty]

It doesn’t but many including you are saying it couldn’t have happened for him.

Stand by it. He was useless. He's not even a manager anymore which says plenty.

If the argument is that I can't possibly know what would've happened if we'd kept him, then you're right, but the same could be said about Terry Butcher.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Interesting that those still going on about the failures with Montgomery are the same people who actively called for the removal of gray before this run of results. Yet there is “no chance” it would have got better under Monty. What a wonderful example of human nature.

I regularly go on about the failures of Montgomery, because put simply, he was the worst manager we’ve had since Butcher. An absolute abomination.

I have also regularly said that I would never in my life call for David Gray to get sacked. Just couldn’t do it.

Kind of disproves your argument. However, it’s blatantly obvious to everybody that Nick Montgomery was never going to make things better. That couldn’t have been clearer to everybody who was unfortunate to witness him turning a very decent squad into what he delivered.

He’ll almost certainly never manage in Europe again. He’s been found out.

[flash]

Interesting that those still going on about the failures with Montgomery are the same people who actively called for the removal of gray before this run of results. Yet there is “no chance” it would have got better under Monty. What a wonderful example of human nature.

The only way things were getting better was him getting shown the door and that's exactly what has happened.

[Wilson]

Just to stick up for Monty. He came with an expectation that he would implement his style on the team and he would be given time to do that. In reality you just don’t get that in Scotland or indeed with many teams. Another failed experiment and another example of poor senior leadership. He probably should never have been approached.

Time doesn’t mean fitting square pegs into round holes and to hell with the results. Of course that isn't going to fly. It means buy time getting results first and evolve the squad. Monty isn't a failed experiment. He's a failure.

[B.H.F.C]

Montgomery is an example of these modern coaches that come into jobs to imprint their philosophy to show off to future employers regardless of what results it gave them, or they'd just keep going until the results changed or the clubs gave up on it. I remember when they were punted from the club I think the guy Valerio was still on LinkedIn posting screenshots of play patterns during our games that they've worked on to obviously get the word out there of what they do. Which is fair enough, we all have to work and promote our work to live. But I think it shows that majority of these guys, Maloney included when here, they're not really adaptable coaches. They don't really learn to play the instrument and write their own music, they just learn the finger placement of the same song or two and beat you over the head with it until you realise its all they have.

Dave Gray at least took period after the Dundee game as the opportunity to change from his 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 type of play with wingers and has since exclusively used 5-3-2/3-5-2 depending on how you look at it, mostly because of the red cards/injuries at that time, the real question will be is can he switch it up one day again when required again and how long will he wait?

For now everything is brilliant and I'd be surprised if we change again between now and the summer, but will be interesting to see what we start pre-season with as the squad evolves.

It seems to have been overlooked a bit but it has changed in the last couple of games with Hoilett coming in for Campbell. That hasn’t been a like for like change and has seen us play with more of a 343 than a 352. It’s quite subtle but you can see the difference it’s made in terms of Hoilett and Boyle just playing off the striker. Change was referenced in Gray’s interview after Kilmarnock and again, he spoke about the ‘front three’ after St Johnstone.

He’s not had to change much because he’s not had to but I think he realised he needed to do something a bit different away to Killie as some of our away performances has been pretty poor lately. Even though we drew, I thought we were a lot better and played more football due to the change.

[easty]

Just to stick up for Monty. He came with an expectation that he would implement his style on the team and he would be given time to do that. In reality you just don’t get that in Scotland or indeed with many teams. Another failed experiment and another example of poor senior leadership. He probably should never have been approached.

:agree: That I can agree with.

Was never qualified/experienced enough. 2 seasons in charge in the Aussie League (60 games).

[Paulie Walnuts]

Time doesn’t mean fitting square pegs into round holes and to hell with the results. Of course that isn't going to fly. It means buy time getting results first and evolve the squad. Monty isn't a failed experiment. He's a failure.

:agree:

I also highly doubt he came in expecting to be ‘given time’ to do what he wanted without results ticking along nicely alongside it. Getting sacked wouldn’t have come as a surprise to him.

[Brightside]

:agree:

I also highly doubt he came in expecting to be ‘given time’ to do what he wanted without results ticking along nicely alongside it. Getting sacked wouldn’t have come as a surprise to him.

His surprise would have been the fact he was told his job was safe just 2 weeks before he was sacked. As I’ve said now, in future we are better sticking with what we know. I’ll stop calling for a fancy continental manager too. Just get someone who knows the Scottish game and what is required to get us top 4 every year. Only worry with that is we’d have brought in McInnes if we’d sacked Gray. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens when BK group take a larger stake.

[Jones28]

Personally would have given Montgomery the summer but appreciate that is a minority view

I don't think he merited the chance at all. We were totally humpty under him and it showed signs of getting worse, not better, over his time at the club.

We'd have ended up sacking him in October and replacing him with Gray anyway. It was a better option to pull the trigger and make it happen sooner.

[Brightside]

I don't think he merited the chance at all. We were totally humpty under him and it showed signs of getting worse, not better, over his time at the club.

We'd have ended up sacking him in October and replacing him with Gray anyway. It was a better option to pull the trigger and make it happen sooner.

Just to be really annoying. It did get worse. It got a lot a worse. But then it got better.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Just to be really annoying. It did get worse. It got a lot a worse. But then it got better.

No it didn’t.

We got worse after the January window despite him being given some excellent players. By the time he left we had won 1, drawn 1 and lost 4 of the previous 6 matches.

[Brightside]

No it didn’t.

We got worse after the January window despite him being given some excellent players. By the time he left we had won 1, drawn 1 and lost 4 of the previous 6 matches.

I think you've misunderstood. It got worse under Gray. Much worse. This whole thread was based on just how much worse it got. But Hibs stuck with it and it got much better.

[Centre Hawf]

He doesn't have to change it, as it's working.

Of course not, wasn't suggesting we do currently need to change. More so that if for whatever reason we went on another poor run and teams sussed us a bit, or perhaps we lost so many players it meant playing this system wasn't viable then it would be interesting to see how he does it, if he does it.


Just to stick up for Monty. He came with an expectation that he would implement his style on the team and he would be given time to do that. In reality you just don’t get that in Scotland or indeed with many teams. Another failed experiment and another example of poor senior leadership. He probably should never have been approached.

I do understand your point, I think time will always help bed in changes that any coach wants to make. But as others have said a lot of what he was doing was square peg in round holes, I found the system very lacklustre to watch and it felt like it was getting worse by the week rather than better. If we had not signed a complete outlier signing like Myziane he would have been in deep deep trouble a lot sooner than he ever really was. I go back to my initial point that guys like him don't know what to do when their plan A goes wrong. There was plenty of moments for Monty to do an SDG and change it about to get some short term breathing room to get top 6 and get himself the summer, but he didn't.

I will agree though that guys like him and Maloney should never have been approached, they're extravagant appointments used to inflate our egos more than anything that we're hiring younger coaches with attacking styles when we're not a team built to make the most of it, and I also just think we're not a league where that really works on a wholly consistent level. The best successes in this league recently have been guys like Derek McInnes, Steve Clarke, Jack Ross, Steven Naismith, Robbie Neilson. All types who have been derided for their style at times, but all of them finishing in places their teams would bite your hand off to achieve before a season starts. I suspect when all is said and done or if we take a step back and actually assess where SDG sits on the coaching style spectrum he probably nestles closer to Jack Ross/Clarke types than Maloney/Monty and that's probably what has allowed him to transform the season in the way it has.

[Centre Hawf]

It seems to have been overlooked a bit but it has changed in the last couple of games with Hoilett coming in for Campbell. That hasn’t been a like for like change and has seen us play with more of a 343 than a 352. It’s quite subtle but you can see the difference it’s made in terms of Hoilett and Boyle just playing off the striker. Change was referenced in Gray’s interview after Kilmarnock and again, he spoke about the ‘front three’ after St Johnstone.

He’s not had to change much because he’s not had to but I think he realised he needed to do something a bit different away to Killie as some of our away performances has been pretty poor lately. Even though we drew, I thought we were a lot better and played more football due to the change.

You're quite right, it's something I've enjoyed seeing in that regard with these minor changes. The system may look the same on a tactics board, but Campbell gives you a more additional target man approach while Hoilett runs channels and plays with the ball in at his feet for longer allowing us to step up.

We thankfully at the moment appear to have a lot of they little tweaks that can help us perform better against each opposition depending on what is needed. Levitt or NMW, Mykola or Bowie, Boyle or Youan when fit, Miller or Cadden and in turn O'Hora or Miller. Obviously everyone has their preference for who should start, Bowie is better than Mykola for example, but I think Gray is really utilising the entirety of his squad really well at the moment. His sub for Levitt to come on in the Derby for NMW for example was a fantastic piece of management in my opinion and was one that I think ultimately went on to win us the game.

[Jones28]

Just to be really annoying. It did get worse. It got a lot a worse. But then it got better.

No you're right it did, but I think - it might just be me - that there were chinks of light with the early season stuff under Gray, things just went against us. That might be green tinted retrospect from me, especially now we are where we are but it allows us to look back with a more balanced view.

Under Monty I saw nothing, nothing that gave me hope we were going to turn a corner and it only got worse despite being backed in the January window.

I get that he had a style he wanted to implement and thats all fair enough, but it was like watching St Johnstone on Saturday. It was so blatantly obvious we didn't have the players to do it - even after Janaury. If not for Maolida we'd have been really toiling.

[Baader]

It wasn't difficulty to see that Monty was out of his depth. One plan which more often than not didn't work. No flexibility whatsoever and sounded clueless and uninspiring in post match interviews. Was never going to turn it around and going on performances, I felt he was probably lucky to get as long as he did.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think you've misunderstood. It got worse under Gray. Much worse. This whole thread was based on just how much worse it got. But Hibs stuck with it and it got much better.

The post you replied to said ‘over his time at the club’.

Over Montgomerys time at the club, it got worse.

[Pretty Boy]

Montgomery was a total flop, anything else is revisionism at it's worst.

He inherited a side in not a bad position. We had finished 5th in the league the season before and had a couple of cracking European results under our belt, admittedly contrasted by some less than stellar league performances. He started out ok but made us progressively worse as the season wore on. Even when he finally changed the shape it didn't spark any improvement in the way it did for Gray.

It's impossible to say there was no chance he'd have improved us if he was given this season but there is no evidence that he was improving us or on the verge of doing so in the time he was here. He had all but the first 3 league games to show he had a clue and we got worse in the time period he was here. Gray can point to tangible evidence he adapted, grew and improved us. Montgomery couldn't give a single example of anything he improved about us.

[matty_f]

Montgomery was a total flop, anything else is revisionism at it's worst.

He inherited a side in not a bad position. We had finished 5th in the league the season before and had a couple of cracking European results under our belt, admittedly contrasted by some less than stellar league performances. He started out ok but made us progressively worse as the season wore on. Even when he finally changed the shape it didn't spark any improvement in the way it did for Gray.

It's impossible to say there was no chance he'd have improved us if he was given this season but there is no evidence that he was improving us or on the verge of doing so in the time he was here. He had all but the first 3 league games to show he had a clue and we got worse in the time period he was here. Gray can point to tangible evidence he adapted, grew and improved us. Montgomery couldn't give a single example of anything he improved about us.

Good post.

There was nothing going in the right direction under Monty. We got worse after some significant January signings, the football was awful the vast majority of the time with the very occasional outbreak of entertainment but it was only ever very fleeting.

I don't have an issue with us offering him the job in the first place, I was excited by the appointment and hoped he'd be a big success, he was hopeless though, ultimately, and it was absolutely right to move on from him when we did.

[blackpoolhibs]

I never wanted Montgomery, and like Maloney he had a way of playing that he never had the players at the club to play.

I never understand why a manager comes in to a club with limited players, and normally that club has been struggling for the new manager to be appointed.

The new man then tries to impliment a style that is pretty clear wont work with poor to average players, which then gets the new manager the sack.

We see it all the time, and we will probably see it again at Man United with another stubborn one, who wont try and get results with the players he has, playing a way they are not comfortable with and dont have the right quality of squad, and wont wait until he does.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I never wanted Montgomery, and like Maloney he had a way of playing that he never had the players at the club to play.

I never understand why a manager comes in to a club with limited players, and normally that club has been struggling for the new manager to be appointed.

The new man then tries to impliment a style that is pretty clear wont work with poor to average players, which then gets the new manager the sack.

We see it all the time, and we will probably see it again at Man United with another stubborn one, who wont try and get results with the players he has, playing a way they are not comfortable with and dont have the right quality of squad, and wont wait until he does.

I’m not even convinced he particularly had a way of playing.

People liked to claim ‘you can see what he’s trying to do’ as a defence of him when he was here. In reality, you couldn’t see what he was trying to do. He was simply a dreadful, clueless manager who had the managerial and tactical ability of someone’s da taking the school team. To have managed to make that squad of players as bad as they were was some feat.

[Unseen work]

I’m always one that would like my team to play with a certain style and ‘good football’

But this passing it to the defender from goal kick, back to keeper, to right back, to centre mid, back to keeper etc is not good football imo. It’s boring as anything.

Pass the ball quickly into the opposition half and attack in numbers. Get after the opposition and press them all over the pitch. That to me is good football.

Maloney and Montgomery were alright at little patterns amongst the back 4. To me that’s surely one of the easier parts, the real difficulty is doing it and creating chances in the final third.

Gray now has us playing a style that is perfect for this league and the players we have. He deserves a huge amount of credit for finding it and being adaptable.

[HoboHarry]

Good post.

There was nothing going in the right direction under Monty. We got worse after some significant January signings, the football was awful the vast majority of the time with the very occasional outbreak of entertainment but it was only ever very fleeting.

I don't have an issue with us offering him the job in the first place, I was excited by the appointment and hoped he'd be a big success, he was hopeless though, ultimately, and it was absolutely right to move on from him when we did.
Different subject but tip of the hat to you for your contribution on the BBC and your barbs aimed at the commentators for their nonsense and repeated comments about Rocky - enjoyed reding that... :aok::top marks

[Chorley Hibee]

I never wanted Montgomery, and like Maloney he had a way of playing that he never had the players at the club to play.

I never understand why a manager comes in to a club with limited players, and normally that club has been struggling for the new manager to be appointed.

The new man then tries to impliment a style that is pretty clear wont work with poor to average players, which then gets the new manager the sack.

We see it all the time, and we will probably see it again at Man United with another stubborn one, who wont try and get results with the players he has, playing a way they are not comfortable with and dont have the right quality of squad, and wont wait until he does.

The way Valakari had St Johnstone playing on Saturday was an example of this.

Repeatedly trying to play out of their six yard box whilst in trouble and passing up numerous opportunities to just lump the ball clear of danger.

It was obvious Hibs were on to it from the first 5/10 minutes.

Utter stupidity and a reflection of the numerous poor coaches trying to mimic Guardiola etc.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The way Valakari had St Johnstone playing on Saturday was an example of this.

Repeatedly trying to play out of their six yard box whilst in trouble and passing up numerous opportunities to just lump the ball clear of danger.

It was obvious Hibs were on to it from the first 5/10 minutes.

Utter stupidity and a reflection of the numerous poor coaches trying to mimic Guardiola etc.

:agree: we let them have the ball cos we knew they’d do nothing with it. Pretty much how teams lined up against us last season.