Clarke Out

[SteveHFC]

Get him out now.

Hungary were there for the taking.

[HendoDelivered]

Hopefully takes Kensell with him :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

100%. That was ****ing pathetic.

[Vault Boy]

The man has accomplished more than any Scotland manager in my lifetime, but this run can’t be ignored. We’re far, far too negative, and I just don’t think Clarke has it in him to change that.

In fairness, for as much character our squad has shown over these last few years, it’s so sorely lacking in quality in a number of key areas. Up front, centre back, goalkeeper. The disparity in quality between the likes of, say, McTominay and Ralston is totally stark.

How Shankland never got a start over Adams this tournament absolutely boggles my mind.

[Keith_M]

1 shot at goal, 0 on target.


Pathetic

[DH1875]

Going nowhere, here till 2026 unfortunately.

[JohnM1875]

1 shot at goal, 0 on target.


Pathetic

Hanley shot was on target near the end? Still nowhere near good enough mind you. We had a 0.02xg after 90 mins in a game we had to win

[04Sauzee]

Haven't missed these types of threads 😅

[Smartie]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.

[Keith_M]

Hanley shot was on target near the end? Still nowhere near good enough mind you. We had a 0.02xg after 90 mins in a game we had to win


Yeah, you're right. 1 shot on target.


How many games is that now without a win? I've lost track

[Carheenlea]

Derek McInnes the natural successor, but Clarke probably gets the WC campaign then it’s time for a changing of the guard, and one that costs the SFA nothing.

[McD]

The man has accomplished more than any Scotland manager in my lifetime, but this run can’t be ignored. We’re far, far too negative, and I just don’t think Clarke has it in him to change that.

In fairness, for as much character our squad has shown over these last few years, it’s so sorely lacking in quality in a number of key areas. Up front, centre back, goalkeeper. The disparity in quality between the likes of, say, McTominay and Ralston is totally stark.

How Shankland never got a start over Adams this tournament absolutely boggles my mind.



Shankland certainly did more in his 25 minutes than Adams did in his 65. Morgan got in about them (should have fouled the guy at the halfway line though).


Christie was pathetic, how McGregor stays on when Gilmour comes off only Clarke knows.


Should have started with a back 4 and started Morgan or Conway alongside Shankland

[Pretty Boy]

He's done a good job. Qualified for two major tournaments, play offs for the World Cup and got us to the top level of the Nations League.

If he went now then he'd go with people's thanks and a lot of fond memories. If he hangs around for another campaign and we fail to qualify for the WC then he'll be subjected to some real abuse that he doesn't really deserve.

I think it would be best for all if he announced he was stepping down next week.

[Northernhibee]

He found magic in the qualifiers. We couldn’t lose. Then we qualified, took our foot off the gas and haven’t found a gear since.

An absolute loser mentality.

[Iain G]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.

It's time for a change, he is not getting the most out of this group anymore and anyone who thinks Shankland is an international class forward needs their head examined.

Negative, dull, boring, one paced, old fashioned football. We needed to win today and and no point did that seem to come into the game plan.

[Mcbizz1998]

Moyes next?

[Mcbizz1998]

It's time for a change, he is not getting the most out of this group anymore and anyone who thinks Shankland is an international class forward needs their head examined.

Negative, dull, boring, one paced, old fashioned football. We needed to win today and and no point did that seem to come into the game plan.

I know he is a jambo but he is more of an international class forward than Che Adams!

[Hiber-nation]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.

They are a limited bunch but Hungary were just dreadful. We were so reluctant to get anyone into the box. The game was there for the taking and he bottled it.

[Iain G]

Moyes next?

What's LJ up to, he is part Scottish don't you know 🤣

[H18 SFR]

Moyes next?

The manager’s salary is £450,000 a year at present. That will not tempt folk like Moyes. Just a matter of time until a EPL team consider him in my opinion.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.

I agree. 100%

[McD]

I know he is a jambo but he is more of an international class forward than Che Adams!



Che Adams has been a loyal servant for Scotland, but he’s not kicked a ball at tournament. There was a difference immediately when Shankland came on

[McD]

The manager’s salary is £450,000 a year at present. That will not tempt folk like Moyes. Just a matter of time until a EPL team consider him in my opinion.



Only way Moyes will take it is if he fancies a slow down away from club football grind

[cabbageandribs1875]

he's still in the dressing room

[Smartie]

It's time for a change, he is not getting the most out of this group anymore and anyone who thinks Shankland is an international class forward needs their head examined.

Negative, dull, boring, one paced, old fashioned football. We needed to win today and and no point did that seem to come into the game plan.

I’m not going to make an impassioned defence of Lawrence Shankland… but who is better who has been available and who left out for him? Given the season he’s had, is he not worth a run for 20 minutes or so at the end of these games? Is he really the main reason we’re not in the next round?

There were just too many Achilles heels in that squad… and Clarke’s approach of dragging teams down to our level and trying to win by the tightest of margins has been as valid as any.

[HarpOnHibee]

It's time for a change, he is not getting the most out of this group anymore and anyone who thinks Shankland is an international class forward needs their head examined.

Negative, dull, boring, one paced, old fashioned football. We needed to win today and and no point did that seem to come into the game plan.

Perhaps he's not. But he showed a great deal more tonight in 15 minutes than Che Adams did over the 3 games.

[we are hibs]

Shankland and Adams are both similar in that they are both so slow.


We are painfully one paced.

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[Iain G]

I’m not going to make an impassioned defence of Lawrence Shankland… but who is better who has been available and who left out for him? Given the season he’s had, is he not worth a run for 20 minutes or so at the end of these games? Is he really the main reason we’re not in the next round?

There were just too many Achilles heels in that squad… and Clarke’s approach of dragging teams down to our level and trying to win by the tightest of margins has been as valid as any.

I think there is a fundamental problem in the management/ hierarchy of Scottish football where nobody actually believes in the sport, it always feels very negative and apologetic and a bit of a joke, glad to be at the tournament, did well to qualify etc.

Until that changes, we drop the small nation mentality and people actually have some belief in our game, we will always underperform and struggle to match the mentality of more successful nations who are the same size as we are.

[whiskyhibby]

The man has accomplished more than any Scotland manager in my lifetime, but this run can’t be ignored. We’re far, far too negative, and I just don’t think Clarke has it in him to change that.

In fairness, for as much character our squad has shown over these last few years, it’s so sorely lacking in quality in a number of key areas. Up front, centre back, goalkeeper. The disparity in quality between the likes of, say, McTominay and Ralston is totally stark.

How Shankland never got a start over Adams this tournament absolutely boggles my mind.

This are my thoughts exactly

[Iain G]

Shankland and Adams are both similar in that they are both so slow.


We are painfully one paced.

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Shame Ben Doak wasn't fit enough, we needed someone to add pace to the team.

[ardecos]

He's done a good job. Qualified for two major tournaments, play offs for the World Cup and got us to the top level of the Nations League.

If he went now then he'd go with people's thanks and a lot of fond memories. If he hangs around for another campaign and we fail to qualify for the WC then he'll be subjected to some real abuse that he doesn't really deserve.

I think it would be best for all if he announced he was stepping down next week.

I think he will pack it in. He's done what he can with this aging squad. Time for a new perspective and the introduction of younger players.

[Hibees1973]

Moyes next?

I doubt it.

He has one big job left in him, working with a decent squad.

Don't think there are enough decent players for Moyes to take the Scotland job on..

[Greenio]

I don't think another manager does better

Understand the reaction though. I'm absolutely gutted

[cabbageandribs1875]

I think he will pack it in. He's done what he can with this aging squad. Time for a new perspective and the introduction of younger players.

and say goodbye to another two years salary ?

[Iain G]

I don't think another manager does better

Understand the reaction though. I'm absolutely gutted

Another manager may not have done better but might of at least had a go at winning the game tonight

[ardecos]

and say goodbye to another two years salary ?

I doubt he needs the money.

[whiskyhibby]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.


I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.


Except we were up for the game and more adventurous for Switzerland, who quite frankly are a better side than Hungary, negative tactics cost us the chance to progress

[Hibbyradge]

For Scotland to do well, we need all our top players available. Clarke didn't have that to start with and then Porteous lost his mind and Tierney got injured.

[K-Zazu]

Can’t believe che Adams started every game just don’t see the point in taking a squad to a tournament to start him 3 times in a week.

[04Sauzee]

Wonder if we will try once again for the likes of Tino Livramento, Elliot Anderson and Harvey Barnes or if they have burnt their Bridges.

[Smartie]

Except we were up for the game and more adventurous for Switzerland, who quite frankly are a better side than Hungary, negative tactics cost us the chance to progress

Were the tactics not much the same?

Hang in there, leave it until late and try to nick the necessary goal?

We were never behind against Switzerland and a draw wasn’t a bad result in that game.

Then we weren’t behind until very late tonight - and still had a chance of pinching the winner.

I’d have maybe liked to have seen him open up 10- 15 minutes earlier and maybe in a more structured manner but I didn’t think he got it all that wrong.

[Nicho87]

Must win game

Starts 5 defenders again

Then takes McGinn off who has gave us so many goals

Kenny McLean finishes the game at left back

Sackable 100%

Stubborn negative clown

[hibsbollah]

Can’t believe che Adams started every game just don’t see the point in taking a squad to a tournament to start him 3 times in a week.

The fact Adams and Lyndon Dykes are our two strikers at international level kind of says it all about why Clarke has us punching above our weight. We just haven’t got the players.

[Vault Boy]

Wonder if we will try once again for the likes of Tino Livramento, Elliot Anderson and Harvey Barnes or if they have burnt their Bridges.

None of them have a hope in hell of playing for England, IMO of course, so we can only hope. Think I remember reading that Livramento also qualifies for Portugal.

[Mcbizz1998]

The manager’s salary is £450,000 a year at present. That will not tempt folk like Moyes. Just a matter of time until a EPL team consider him in my opinion.

Not sure how you could know what is motivating Moyes at this stage of his career? He is a proud Scot, 61 years old - 450k to top up the pension fund with less work than a club management job, might be exactly what he is looking for at this stage.

[Zorro]

The fact Adams and Lyndon Dykes are our two strikers at international level kind of says it all about why Clarke has us punching above our weight. We just haven’t got the players.

We haven’t. I thought Shearer’s comments on BBC at full time were honest and correct. The players gave everything, and we have some quality players. Just not enough of them. But if that penalty gets given (as it should have been) it could have been very different

[whiskyhibby]

Were the tactics not much the same?

Hang in there, leave it until late and try to nick the necessary goal?

We were never behind against Switzerland and a draw wasn’t a bad result in that game.

Then we weren’t behind until very late tonight - and still had a chance of pinching the winner.

I’d have maybe liked to have seen him open up 10- 15 minutes earlier and maybe in a more structured manner but I didn’t think he got it all that wrong.


Except didn’t we score in 10 minutes ………….

[JimBHibees]

Haven't missed these types of threads 😅

Me neither he has done a brilliant job to get us there. Ridiculous talk of him being sacked likely he will walk

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

There has to be a change from the very top. We are not a small wee nation. Denmark has the same population and won the Euros, Croatia has 1m less and been to a World Cup final, let's get rid of this small nation pish. The longer we have attitude, we have no chance of doing anything.

[whiskyhibby]

Me neither he has done a brilliant job to get us there. Ridiculous talk of him being sacked likely he will walk

Hopefully he does and saves us splashing out on compensation

[Heisenberg]

No chance he’s going anywhere

[hibsbollah]

We haven’t. I thought Shearer’s comments on BBC at full time were honest and correct. The players gave everything, and we have some quality players. Just not enough of them. But if that penalty gets given (as it should have been) it could have been very different

When i was little Scotlands two strikers were?

Joe Jordan and Kenny Dalglish. Granted, we never got out of the groups then either :greengrin But its a fair illustration of the relative lack of talent we’redealing with these days.

[neil7908]

The fact Adams and Lyndon Dykes are our two strikers at international level kind of says it all about why Clarke has us punching above our weight. We just haven’t got the players.

Agreed. Got up at 4.45am to watch that and I'm gutted but I'm genuinely curious as to where people think the goals and attacking players are coming from in this squad.

Just don't have the attacking players to compete anywhere near a high level.

And folk are unhappy at negative football but want Moyes 😂😂😂.

[JohnM1875]

Agreed. Got up at 4.45am to watch that and I'm gutted but I'm genuinely curious as to where people think the best goals are coming from in this team.

Just don't have the attacking players to compete anywhere near a high level.

And folk are unhappy at negative football but want Moyes 😂😂😂.

We have more than good enough players to create for forward players though. McGinn, McTominay, Robertson, Tierney and Gilmour. They're EPL players.

Even a poor forward would do well with players like that creating if the tactic was forward thinking.

[Glory Lurker]

Losing Dykes was massive. Whether Adams, Shankland or anyone else, we were stuffed from the get go because we had no hold up at the front. Damage limitation was our whole game after that happened.

We were honkin with him in the team in the friendlies, sure, but he was crucial to any chance we had. I don't think Clarke could have turned that around.

Anyway, will a change of manager make a difference when our game has been withering for years?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

There will be a lot of the older players who call it quits I think. Better sides than us didn't qualify. I'd give him some more time.

[JeMeSouviens]

We had easily the worst players in that group but came within an arguable penalty decision of getting out of it. Can’t see any other manager doing better with that squad tbh.

[FitbaFolkKen]

That’s a terrible interview from Clarke, the stuff about the ref and his nationality is really poor.

https://x.com/lesouness/status/1804996627221877114?s=46&t=yL0qSD7IXeUC4dQ5_jqdNw


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[Michael]

Clarke has done a decent job - frankly I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. I think when Scotland have every player fit we have a semi-decent side that's lacking a goal scorer. But, we don't really have any depth, and that's what showed in this competition.

Ultimately, we need a restructuring of grassroots football if we're to reach our potential as a nation.

[shetlandhibee]

:agree:
He's done a good job. Qualified for two major tournaments, play offs for the World Cup and got us to the top level of the Nations League.

If he went now then he'd go with people's thanks and a lot of fond memories. If he hangs around for another campaign and we fail to qualify for the WC then he'll be subjected to some real abuse that he doesn't really deserve.

I think it would be best for all if he announced he was stepping down next week. have to agree with this,.,,:top marks

[hibsbollah]

We have more than good enough players to create for forward players though. McGinn, McTominay, Robertson, Tierney and Gilmour. They're EPL players.

Even a poor forward would do well with players like that creating if the tactic was forward thinking.

Compared to even average international sides those five players look competent, not top quality. Theyre not going to scare anyone. Scotland were the worst team i watched in the competition, i would have liked to have seen us play a more attacking style but we’d have been gubbed in reality.

[BILLYHIBS]

That’s a terrible interview from Clarke, the stuff about the ref and his nationality is really poor.

https://x.com/lesouness/status/1804996627221877114?s=46&t=yL0qSD7IXeUC4dQ5_jqdNw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s got a point

That’s a penalty all day long in Scotland with a Scottish Ref

Penalty to Rangers !

[JohnM1875]

Compared to even average international sides those five players look competent, not top quality. They're not going to scare anyone. Scotland were the worst team i watched in the competition, i would have liked to have seen us play a more attacking style but we’d have been gubbed in reality.

I've not checked so could be way, way off. But if you were to compare those player (maybe not Gilmour seeing as he currently plays for Brighton) to their direct competition on the Swiss and Hungary teams I'd be surprised if our players didn't show up favourably or at the very least equal over the past season or so? Robertson will be the best as an example.

Agree we were the worst team in the competition though. Rightfully McTominay got awarded the goal or we wouldn't have had a scorer.

[Scottie]

Watching his interview he’s going nowhere. His stubbornness has cost us a place in the last 16. I’d rather have been skelped again than this negative crap he serves up. How many games since our last win ?

[SlickShoes]

I've not checked so could be way, way off. But if you were to compare those player (maybe not Gilmour seeing as he currently plays for Brighton) to their direct competition on the Swiss and Hungary teams I'd be surprised if our players didn't show up favourably or at the very least equal over the past season or so? Robertson will be the best as an example.

Agree we were the worst team in the competition though. Rightfully McTominay got awarded the goal or we wouldn't have had a scorer.

Switzerland have a much stronger squad than people seem too be willing to acknowledge for some reason. Hungary I can take the point are about on par with us, but Switzerland are always dismissed because they are just consistently good but not great. They are miles ahead of us in every position.

[JohnM1875]

Switzerland have a much stronger squad than people seem too be willing to acknowledge for some reason. Hungary I can take the point are about on par with us, but Switzerland are always dismissed because they are just consistently good but not great. They are miles ahead of us in every position.

I'm honestly not saying that, I do think they have a stacked squad full of quality. Their recent qualification to major tournaments etc prove that. All I'm saying is we have quality players too. We maybe need to think about that first sometimes.

[hibsbollah]

I've not checked so could be way, way off. But if you were to compare those player (maybe not Gilmour seeing as he currently plays for Brighton) to their direct competition on the Swiss and Hungary teams I'd be surprised if our players didn't show up favourably or at the very least equal over the past season or so? Robertson will be the best as an example.

Agree we were the worst team in the competition though. Rightfully McTominay got awarded the goal or we wouldn't have had a scorer.

Switzerland have tonnes more quality than us, their players have won domestic leagues across Europe. We did well to get that point. Hungary were worse than i thought, and their players have achieved less than the swiss but really, Tierney is our star man, a bit player at Arsenal now, the rest of the players named are grafters; McGinn McTominay, Robbos had an up and down season and had a poor tournament, the clamour for Gilmour has been loud but never ever really broke through at Chelsea and a long way from being able to influence at the really top level.

[1875Sean]

None of them have a hope in hell of playing for England, IMO of course, so we can only hope. Think I remember reading that Livramento also qualifies for Portugal.

Think Livramento will have a chance, Walker is 34, Trippier 33 so they will need a young right back to replace them for the next World Cup squad

[JohnM1875]

Switzerland have tonnes more quality than us, their players have won domestic leagues across Europe. We did well to get that point. Hungary were worse than i thought, and their players have achieved less than the swiss but really, Tierney is our star man, a bit player at Arsenal now, the rest of the players named are grafters; McGinn McTominay, Robbos had an up and down season and had a poor tournament, the clamour for Gilmour has been loud but never ever really broke through at Chelsea and a long way from being able to influence at the really top level.

Not having a go, but this is what I mean. We sell ourselves short all the time. Grafters

McGinn - Villa captain, top four finish and Conference League semi finalist
McTominay - FA cup winner
Robertson - Premier League and Champions League winner

Clarke absolutely got a raw deal with injuries, no one can deny that. But I'd like a more forward thinking manager come in.

[Since90+2]

We don't have the forward players to compete at this level. You can set the team up in the best possible way ect but the simple fact is Dykes,Adams and Shankland are mid level English Championship level guys.

[hibsbollah]

Not having a go, but this is what I mean. We sell ourselves short all the time. Grafters

McGinn - Villa captain, top four finish and Conference League semi finalist
McTominay - FA cup winner
Robertson - Premier League and Champions League winner

Clarke absolutely got a raw deal with injuries, no one can deny that. But I'd like a more forward thinking manager come in.

I know what those three players have achieved. Their main qualities are that they are grafters, team players, put in a shift. I dont think that compares favourably with most other nations in the tournament, and they arent relying on on Che Adams or Lyndon Dykes to score goals up front. Its not selling ourselves short is the problem, we’re just not very good.

[JohnM1875]

I know what those three players have achieved. Their main qualities are that they are grafters, team players, put in a shift. I dont think that compares favourably with most other nations in the tournament, and they arent relying on on Che Adams or Lyndon Dykes to score goals up front. Its not selling ourselves short is the problem, we’re just not very good.

Disagree, they're so much more than that. They're very good footballers playing at the highest level in football.

But, again, you're right. Outwith the players I highly rate we are struggling for strikers, defenders and if we're honest, a keeper.

I'll add a manager into the mix just to be cheeky.

[B.H.F.C]

I don't think another manager does better

Understand the reaction though. I'm absolutely gutted

May not have started with McGinn and McTominay on the right and left totally nullifying them. May not have made ended up with Jack Hendry at right back and Kenny McLean at left back. And about four others playing **** knows where.

[matty_f]

This possession for possession’s sake style of play that we watched for most of this match is brutal. What’s the point in keeping the ball if you don’t test the keeper or create chances?

Hungary must have been delighted, all they had to do was sit in and counter and they could easily have been ahead at half time.

We should have had a penalty, which I think will have been enough to win (assuming we scored it) but that doesn’t mask an inept attacking performance - we can’t be relying on winning a game with one of two chances. It’s an idiotic way to approach a football match.

[neil7908]

I know what those three players have achieved. Their main qualities are that they are grafters, team players, put in a shift. I dont think that compares favourably with most other nations in the tournament, and they arent relying on on Che Adams or Lyndon Dykes to score goals up front. Its not selling ourselves short is the problem, we’re just not very good.

Norway have Haaland, the best striker in the world, Odegaard one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, and Sorloth, who was a whisker away from being top scorer in La Liga.

And they didn't even qualify.

I think you are bang on with your assessment. Robertson is the only guy we have that could be considered world class in his position.

Injuries have been unkind to us but even with a fully fit squad we have a surplus of good midfielders and left backs but completely lacking in other areas of the pitch.

We have no one that can dribble and take on a man, no goalscorer at a decent level, no physical presence up top, no one out wide, no centre backs of genuine quality.

I don't think Clarke should be immune from criticism but if he goes I think it'll be yet another long wait to even qualify for a tournament.

[easty]

You dinnae have to have world class players to put in even just a semi decent performance in this tournament.

We’ve been absolutely the worst side in the Euros. It’s embarrassing.

[HendoDelivered]

That post match interview man 😂😂

[500miles]

That is our limit. Until we have a reasonable quality of striker and a couple of centrebacks we can trust to play in a pair, we'll hit the wall.

Oh and pace.

[B.H.F.C]

You dinnae have to have world class players to put in even just a semi decent performance in this tournament.

We’ve been absolutely the worst side in the Euros. It’s embarrassing.

100% this. Identical to the last one. Didn’t turn up in the first game. A battling performance and reaction in the second game. Completely lacking in the third when it’s there for us. We’ve had 3 shots on target in 3 games. Your see teams like Georgia and Albania with less quality than us playing with much more drive and determination.

[Mark05]

This possession for possession’s sake style of play that we watched for most of this match is brutal. What’s the point in keeping the ball if you don’t test the keeper or create chances?

Hungary must have been delighted, all they had to do was sit in and counter and they could easily have been ahead at half time.

We should have had a penalty, which I think will have been enough to win (assuming we scored it) but that doesn’t mask an inept attacking performance - we can’t be relying on winning a game with one of two chances. It’s an idiotic way to approach a football match.
Totally agree, The Old saying you don't shoot you don't score.For a game we had to win I couldn't believe what I was watching. I'm not saying go all out attack just put there defence under more pressure, which could lead to mistakes.Im still raging spent 2 hours getting back to my hotel and listening to some Scotland fans singing no Scotland no party after the game what's that about?

[Yorkshire HFC]

He found magic in the qualifiers. We couldn’t lose. Then we qualified, took our foot off the gas and haven’t found a gear since.

An absolute loser mentality.

These sort of comments are hopeless. Steve Clarke is a winner in life and in football - and he's been a great manager for Scotland - look at the joy he's given people.

Noone would do any better than he has done - Scotland just don't have the players to perform any better than they have done.

Don't blame the manager - look at the system that produces the players.

Look at Hibs - why do they keep buying second rate foreigners on two year contracts / short term loans - how does that help the national team?

[Iain G]

These sort of comments are hopeless. Steve Clarke is a winner in life and in football - and he's been a great manager for Scotland - look at the joy he's given people.

Noone would do any better than he has done - Scotland just don't have the players to perform any better than they have done.

Don't blame the manager - look at the system that produces the players.

Look at Hibs - why do they keep buying second rate foreigners on two year contracts / short term loans - how does that help the national team?

So it's Ian Gordon's fault that Stevie Clarke is a negative manager now? 🤣😁

[Bobby's Cinema]

This possession for possession’s sake style of play that we watched for most of this match is brutal. What’s the point in keeping the ball if you don’t test the keeper or create chances?

Hungary must have been delighted, all they had to do was sit in and counter and they could easily have been ahead at half time.

We should have had a penalty, which I think will have been enough to win (assuming we scored it) but that doesn’t mask an inept attacking performance - we can’t be relying on winning a game with one of two chances. It’s an idiotic way to approach a football match.
We seemed intent on being able to say let's get to 70minutes and then have a go.

Might aswell have come on screen and told everyone to switch off and go out and enjoy the sun until then.

We are limited, but could have taken three points from either of those two games with a different approach IMO.

[JimBHibees]

That’s a terrible interview from Clarke, the stuff about the ref and his nationality is really poor.

https://x.com/lesouness/status/1804996627221877114?s=46&t=yL0qSD7IXeUC4dQ5_jqdNw


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He has every right to be hacked off at the referee he stopped him qualifying with a ludicrous decision.

[JimBHibees]

These sort of comments are hopeless. Steve Clarke is a winner in life and in football - and he's been a great manager for Scotland - look at the joy he's given people.

Noone would do any better than he has done - Scotland just don't have the players to perform any better than they have done.

Don't blame the manager - look at the system that produces the players.

Look at Hibs - why do they keep buying second rate foreigners on two year contracts / short term loans - how does that help the national team?

Totally agree Clarke has done a brilliant job for Scotland

[MWHIBBIES]

None of them have a hope in hell of playing for England, IMO of course, so we can only hope. Think I remember reading that Livramento also qualifies for Portugal.

Livramento absolutely could get in an England squad. Still very young.

[Coach Jon]

He has every right to be hacked off at the referee he stopped him qualifying with a ludicrous decision.

The standard of refereeing at this tournament has been excellent, and that includes VAR, you thought it was a penalty going by your numerous posts on the subject, but the people who matter did not.

[Since90+2]

The standard of refereeing at this tournament has been excellent, and that includes VAR, you thought it was a penalty going by your numerous posts on the subject, but the people who matter did not.

It's 100% a penalty. Clear as day and if that's Ronaldo, Kane Mbappe ect brought down in that position you can absolutely guarantee a penalty is awarded.

[blackpoolhibs]

The standard of refereeing at this tournament has been excellent, and that includes VAR, you thought it was a penalty going by your numerous posts on the subject, but the people who matter did not.

It's as clear a penalty as you can get. :confused:

[He's here!]

Didn't see the game but hearing Clarke's interview on the radio this morning was a cringe. What's the referee's Argentinian nationality got to do with anything? The 'should be refereeing in his own country' stuff is the sort of thing a Reform candidate might come out with.

As the 5 Live radio pundit just pointed out, Clarke just needs to look at the stats to explain Scotland's failure rather than citing the ref's nationality as an issue. Two defeats from three, one point from nine and an og and a deflection being their only goals scored. Statistically one of the poorest teams in the tournament.

[JimBHibees]

It's as clear a penalty as you can get. :confused:

Agree couldn’t have been clearer.

[ekhibee]

Didn't see the game but hearing Clarke's interview on the radio this morning was a cringe. What's the referee's Argentinian nationality got to do with anything? The 'should be refereeing in his own country' stuff is the sort of thing a Reform candidate might come out with.

As the 5 Live radio pundit just pointed out, Clarke just needs to look at the stats to explain Scotland's failure rather than citing the ref's nationality as an issue. Two defeats from three, one point from nine and an og and a deflection being their only goals scored. Statistically one of the poorest teams in the tournament.

Well then maybe you should watch the game. We should have had a penalty, it was a really poor decision from the referee regardless of the quality of refereeing in this tournament or the lack of chances Scotland created.

[Coach Jon]

Agree couldn’t have been clearer.

I will repeat VAR looked at it and decided it wasnt a penalty, Armstrong is clearly offside when the forward pass is made so that is the first thing VAR would check, no penalty can be given in those circumstances.

[LeithMike]

McGinn - Villa captain, top four finish and Conference League semi

Aye but he didn’t do that playing as a striker though.

Clarke has clearly done a good job during qualifying and we do have a very limited squad but, it’s hard to think that a few changes would not have had us competing a bit better:

Our best player McGinn who we have all seen be able to pick up the ball deep and carry a team 20 yards up the park marginalised playing up front our out wide. Scotland were crying out for his strength and energy in the middle of the park to influence all of the games.

McTominay - most dangerous goal threat but poor delivery taken out as a goal threat when we have most of our attacking opportunities by being on corners.

Shankland - looked far more composed on the ball than Adams but barely featured. Massive improvement when he came on.

Ralston - thought he did ok last night but poor the first two games - surely Forrest was worth a shot playing as a more attacking wing back in a game you need to win.


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[He's here!]

Well then maybe you should watch the game. We should have had a penalty, it was a really poor decision from the referee regardless of the quality of refereeing in this tournament or the lack of chances Scotland created.

Bringing the ref's nationality into it tho? Heat of the moment etc, I get it, but if an England manager had come out with something like that there would be a pile-on of flak. Pretty embarrassing comment.

[DaveF]

Bringing the ref's nationality into it tho? Heat of the moment etc, I get it, but if an England manager had come out with something like that there would be a pile-on of flak. Pretty embarrassing comment.

Why we do we have South American referees though? It's a euro tournament so I'd assume they would have European officials? Maybe it's always happened and I've never noticed. Do we have African / Asian officials represented too?

[DaveF]

To answer my own question, no it hasn't always happened and the referee last night was brought in as part of a partnership between Uefa and the South American federation.

https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/media/news/028c-1ab861ea105d-1af970c69ec4-1000--referee-teams-for-uefa-euro-2024-appointed/

Can we give them John Beaton, Kevin Clancy and co in return?

[Northernhibee]

These sort of comments are hopeless. Steve Clarke is a winner in life and in football - and he's been a great manager for Scotland - look at the joy he's given people.

Noone would do any better than he has done - Scotland just don't have the players to perform any better than they have done.

Don't blame the manager - look at the system that produces the players.

Look at Hibs - why do they keep buying second rate foreigners on two year contracts / short term loans - how does that help the national team?

Why? We were flying, then we qualified, and completely took our foot off the throttle. What is it, one win in twelve games?


That’s not doing a good job, that’s just rank rotten. The attitude should have been to continue to put teams to the sword and keep momentum going.


No way should Clarke survive. One win in twelve is horrific and considering we knew how to win before it all can’t be put on the players.

[Jones28]

Think Clarke deserves a lot of praise for his time, returning Scotland to major tournaments is something many have tried and failed to do.

But 3 shots in 3 games, 2 goals scored both being OG's and some quite strange line ups means his race is run for me.

[KeithTheHibby]

These sort of comments are hopeless. Steve Clarke is a winner in life and in football - and he's been a great manager for Scotland - look at the joy he's given people.

Noone would do any better than he has done - Scotland just don't have the players to perform any better than they have done.

Don't blame the manager - look at the system that produces the players.

Look at Hibs - why do they keep buying second rate foreigners on two year contracts / short term loans - how does that help the national team?

Clarke has managed us in quite a few massive games now - 6 euro championship matches, one WC play-off and I think the games that got us to euro 2020. Has he won any in 90 minutes?
It’s not far off the same squad of players yet I’m not sure he’s learned anything from these games.
Grateful for what he has achieved in getting us to major tournaments however he’s taken Scotland as far as he can - time to step aside and get a more experienced international manager who will get more out of that squad.

[KeithTheHibby]

That’s a terrible interview from Clarke, the stuff about the ref and his nationality is really poor.

https://x.com/lesouness/status/1804996627221877114?s=46&t=yL0qSD7IXeUC4dQ5_jqdNw


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I would imagine the ref does speak English - would be bizarre if he didn’t.

[Mcbizz1998]

Daft from Clark to mention the refs nationality. I did think the ref bought every single one of the Hungarians dives and gave soft free kicks all game. Basically the kind of thing you tend to see in South America.

[SHODAN]

That chat about the ref's nationality is reprehensible. Get that to ****.

[Broken Gnome]

That team is going to need a pretty major refresh in the years to come and highly doubt he's the guy to do it.

Needs a complete revamp of our work in the opposing half. Think of all the times McGinn was able to turn and find half a yard, or when McGregor had time on the ball or Adams actually took a decent first touch - I can't think of may teams at this level that would have a shape offering less options.

There's no link up, no thoughts of popping quick passes between two or three players to break the lines... We were left with too many occasions we had nowhere to go but backwards, and had players holding on to the ball for embarrassingly long periods of time.

It's absolutely a lack of quality and players that can't overcome those issues without any individual magic. It can't not be a major issue ending up with McLean at full back and Lewis Morgan up front, but the rigid and negative shape and complete lack of forward thinking is very much on Clarke and when the results go downhill he's got very little going for him.

Doubt Moyes would be a revolution in playing style, but I'd trust him to get better results.

[DaveF]

That chat about the ref's nationality is reprehensible. Get that to ****.

I don't think it totally is so there is no need to get sensitive about it. It's not the one single reason we are out (see hundreds of posts about our overall displays for that) but I don't think it's unreasonable to talk about it. Games are officiated differently in different continents.

Not sure the need for the experiment myself.

[Wilson]

Think Clarke deserves a lot of praise for his time, returning Scotland to major tournaments is something many have tried and failed to do.

But 3 shots in 3 games, 2 goals scored both being OG's and some quite strange line ups means his race is run for me.

Agree with this.

[He's here!]

I don't think it totally is so there is no need to get sensitive about it. It's not the one single reason we are out (see hundreds of posts about our overall displays for that) but I don't think it's unreasonable to talk about it. Games are officiated differently in different continents.

Not sure the need for the experiment myself.

A caller to Nicky Campbell's phone in has just pointed out that the video assistant referee was European and didn't see fit to ask the ref to take another look. How does Clarke square that with it being an Argentinian ref's fault?

[Scooter]

As much as I'm angry with Clarke. I still think he's the best man for the job just would like to see them have ago, the Swiss game was a must win.

The other thing he obviously does, is he just plays his best players and tried to fit them in. 4 central midfielders playing across a 4 man midfield

[One Day Soon]

We’re a bit rubbish.

SC does his best with a weak team but he does look very timid and defence minded.

That ‘penalty’ looked offside to me and Armstrong was doing as much wrestling as the other guy anyway.

His comments are an embarrassment.

We’ve been the worst team to watch in the tournament.

There are serious longer term questions to answer about how our game is structured and run.

[Lago]

Get him out now.

Hungary were there for the taking.
Not going to happen, unfortunately

[DaveF]

A caller to Nicky Campbell's phone in has just pointed out that the video assistant referee was European and didn't see fit to ask the ref to take another look. How does Clarke square that with it being an Argentinian ref's fault?

Var was Spanish I believe. I'm not totally defending Clarke but I do think it's fair game to question why a South American official was parachuted in for a euro tournament. Maybe vat didn't go against him so as to highlight his (obvious) failure in awarding a penalty? I dunno.

Will be interesting to see if he gets another game.

[Scooter]

Var was Spanish I believe. I'm not totally defending Clarke but I do think it's fair game to question why a South American official was parachuted in for a euro tournament. Maybe vat didn't go against him so as to highlight his (obvious) failure in awarding a penalty? I dunno.

Will be interesting to see if he gets another game.

Armstrong looked offside also

[He's here!]

I will repeat VAR looked at it and decided it wasnt a penalty, Armstrong is clearly offside when the forward pass is made so that is the first thing VAR would check, no penalty can be given in those circumstances.

I only saw it for the first time this morning and, coupled with what looked like him being offside as you say, he's also doing his best to collide with the defender. Hard to see it as the blazing injustice Clarke claims it was. You'd see those given but equally you'd likely be pretty aggrieved if it was given against you.

[Hibbyradge]

Armstrong looked offside also

Offside wasn't given. If it had been, there would be no controversy so I have to assume he was on.

[Scooter]

Offside wasn't given. If it had been, there would be no controversy so I have to assume he was on.

No but the linesman might have missed it in play. If pen was awarded and that would have been checked also and I think he was off

[Sylar]

I did ask when I seen the referees announced on TV beforehand why we had an Argentine in charge for a UEFA competition...not that I feel that has anything to do with how he performed, I was just curious as to why. Lamentable to say the least that Clarke seems to think that merits being a stick to beat him with.

Clarke has done well getting this squad to two major competitions in a row. But I don't think he can progress us any further and I'd be keen to see a reset now. We were absolutely pitiful in this tournament and the last, and find ourselves with one win in 12 games (vs Gibraltar). I get we've played some of the biggest teams in Europe during that spell, but we haven't progressed or kicked on since sealing qualification...

That being said, he's pissing with the cock he has, and Scotland's lack of success is much more systemic - go outside and you see 'No Ball Games' signs everywhere - the cost/access of using actual parks is prohibitive, and there's been minimal investment in grass roots football from the SFA in the last 2 decades that haven't spurred on or developed any real talent. There needs to be a clean sweep - someone to look at how we're developing players from school, through to the professional game in this country - we can't keep relying on mediocre dross with a Scottish gran/parent resulting in taking us half a step forward. Our chronic lack of pace, creative forwards etc has been a weakness as long as I've been following this side (Euro 96 was my first, so not as long-suffering as some).

There are some quality individual players in our current squad but the lack of consistent production through our youth systems is a real area of concern - all professional clubs need to do more. The SFA need to do more. The school system need to more.

Clarke can go tomorrow, but it only solves part of the problem IMO.

[DaveF]

I only saw it for the first time this morning and, coupled with what looked like him being offside as you say, he's also doing his best to collide with the defender. Hard to see it as the blazing injustice Clarke claims it was. You'd see those given but equally you'd likely be pretty aggrieved if it was given against you.

Well I'm shocked that your view is one that goes against the vast majority. Utterly shocked 😃

[Hibiza]

Did I hear correctly that Scotland have only won once in 15 ( Gibraltar )

[Hibbyradge]

No but the linesman might have missed it in play. If pen was awarded and that would have been checked also and I think he was off

Gotcha

[hibsbollah]

Did I hear correctly that Scotland have only won once in 15 ( Gibraltar )

Dunno, but i was just reading our xg last night was actually 0.00 at halftime, 0.13 at the end, which must be some sort of tournament record.

[overdrive]

No but the linesman might have missed it in play. If pen was awarded and that would have been checked also and I think he was off

I think the correct procedure where a penalty has been missed but it was also a missed offside (so net effect, no penalty) is for VAR to get the ref to check the video and if he awards the penalty, it is then disallowed for offside. There's been a few instances where this has happened, including one involving Hibs (vs Livi this season just finished). I don't think a missed offside can be given other than where it involves a goal or a penalty - and the penalty must be given first for the offside to be given.

[MWHIBBIES]

Var was Spanish I believe. I'm not totally defending Clarke but I do think it's fair game to question why a South American official was parachuted in for a euro tournament. Maybe vat didn't go against him so as to highlight his (obvious) failure in awarding a penalty? I dunno.

Will be interesting to see if he gets another game.
Why is it fair to ask that? His nationality has no relevance at all.

He had a good game. VAR should've recommended a look at monitor for penalty.

[Calidad]

Aye but he didn’t do that playing as a striker though.

Clarke has clearly done a good job during qualifying and we do have a very limited squad but, it’s hard to think that a few changes would not have had us competing a bit better:

Our best player McGinn who we have all seen be able to pick up the ball deep and carry a team 20 yards up the park marginalised playing up front our out wide. Scotland were crying out for his strength and energy in the middle of the park to influence all of the games.

McTominay - most dangerous goal threat but poor delivery taken out as a goal threat when we have most of our attacking opportunities by being on corners.

Shankland - looked far more composed on the ball than Adams but barely featured. Massive improvement when he came on.

Ralston - thought he did ok last night but poor the first two games - surely Forrest was worth a shot playing as a more attacking wing back in a game you need to win.


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Perfectly sums up my feelings too.

I couldn’t for the life of me understand why McTominay was on set pieces. He’s probably our biggest goal threat in the air and is an average set piece taker. Never noticed any of the pundits commenting on that either. Completely nonsensical.

Completely wasted our best MF in McGinn by playing him in a position where he wasn’t able to affect the game.

And to top it off, persists with a striker who doesn’t score any goals in a team with an already very limited goal threat, while a striker who has scored 30+ goals this season sits on the bench? Adam’s trying to pump up the crowd for a run that was offside about sums it up for me.

Clarke isn’t the only recent manager guilty of being over-conservative and dare I say negative, but certainly continues the trend. If you pick teams with no pace, no goal threat and play your better players out of position then you’re not going to win games. Hungary are not a good side.

[DaveF]

Why is it fair to ask that? His nationality has no relevance at all.

He had a good game. VAR should've recommended a look at monitor for penalty.

He didn't have a good game. He bought every dive and booked players for minor offences. And feel free to miss my point about why are Uefa brining in refs from other confederations for a tournament like this. Whats the need to do so?

[MWHIBBIES]

He didn't have a good game. He bought every dive and booked players for minor offences. And feel free to miss my point about why are Uefa brining in refs from other confederations for a tournament like this. Whats the need to do so?

Disagree, thought he was good. Was a niggly game and he booked players correctly.

I didn't miss your point because you didn't make one. Why does it matter. He could be from mars. It's not at all relevant. They have a European ref at the copa america and a South American ref at the euros. Assuming both are qualified and can communicate with players, it's perfectly fine.

[eastmainsmsh]

Needed Dykes badly him and Shankland up top mightve been different but hey ho

[Hibbyradge]

Does anyone really believe that if the incident had taken place in the middle of the pitch, the ref would have just signalled "play on"?

[DaveF]

Disagree, thought he was good. Was a niggly game and he booked players correctly.

I didn't miss your point because you didn't make one. Why does it matter. He could be from mars. It's not at all relevant. They have a European ref at the copa america and a South American ref at the euros. Assuming both are qualified and can communicate with players, it's perfectly fine.

Well IMO it does make a difference. Watched a game the other day and ref (polish I think) let most challenges go and let the game flow. Last night, the guy was far too whistle happy.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Why is it fair to ask that? His nationality has no relevance at all.

He had a good game. VAR should've recommended a look at monitor for penalty.

If he’s that good why isn’t he at the Copa America?

[overdrive]

He didn't have a good game. He bought every dive and booked players for minor offences. And feel free to miss my point about why are Uefa brining in refs from other confederations for a tournament like this. Whats the need to do so?

It is an exchange programme. There's an Italian referee at the Copa America. The aim is to widen referees' experience of different football cultures, etc. They are going to do a similar thing with the Champions League/Europa League and their South American counterpart tournaments.

[MWHIBBIES]

If he’s that good why isn’t he at the Copa America?
Because he's on an exchange with a European ref who is doing matches at the copa america.

Well IMO it does make a difference. Watched a game the other day and ref (polish I think) let most challenges go and let the game flow. Last night, the guy was far too whistle happy.
And what relevance is his nationality?

[overdrive]

If he’s that good why isn’t he at the Copa America?

Because there is an Italian ref at the Copa America as part of an exchange programme. In fact, the Italian ref was in charge of a match last night too (USA vs Bolivia).

Irrespective on folk's views on the ability of the ref last night, for those who are against non-European refs taking charge of games at the Euros, are you also against foreign refs taking charge of games in Scotland as that is something that is often suggested on here (and I agree with).

[DaveF]

And what relevance is his nationality?

It's relevant because the game is different and officiated in a different manner.

Bit pointless going over and over this though. You thought he was good, I didn't. Move on.

[JeMeSouviens]

Because he's on an exchange with a European ref who is doing matches at the copa america.

And what relevance is his nationality?

Refereeing styles are different. I think it's poor phrasing from Clarke but he's obviously going to be a bit emotional. If he'd said, "a referee used to South American football is obviously going to be something European based players aren't used to, why are UEFA running experiments in the middle of our most important competition?" Then I think that would be an entirely legitimate question to ask.

I think Armstrong is too honest. He's trying to block the guy but still get a shot away. If he'd slowed, taken the contact and gone down facing forwards like a sack of tatties, it would have been a clear penalty in a ref friendly way. That's what almost all strikers would've done.

Offside or not is very close:

https://i.ibb.co/F0TL5b7/Screenshot-2024-06-24-at-11-25-38.png

[I'm_cabbaged]

It is an exchange programme. There's an Italian referee at the Copa America. The aim is to widen referees' experience of different football cultures, etc. They are going to do a similar thing with the Champions League/Europa League and their South American counterpart tournaments.

Awright, fair do’s . Thought he was **** regardless of nationality. McTominay’s booking, and the foot up against Scotland the ten minutes later a higher foot against us with no foul just a couple off the top of my head.

[nonshinyfinish]

Refereeing styles are different. I think it's poor phrasing from Clarke but he's obviously going to be a bit emotional. If he'd said, "a referee used to South American football is obviously going to be something European based players aren't used to, why are UEFA running experiments in the middle of our most important competition?" Then I think that would be an entirely legitimate question to ask.

Even then, the comment about him 'probably not speaking the language' is totally out of order.

[JeMeSouviens]

Even then, the comment about him 'probably not speaking the language' is totally out of order.

Agreed.

[overdrive]

It's relevant because the game is different and officiated in a different manner.

Bit pointless going over and over this though. You thought he was good, I didn't. Move on.

That's potentially one of the reasons they are doing this in order to give refs experience of different styles so that when you get to a World Cup, there isn't a clash of styles.

[MWHIBBIES]

It's relevant because the game is different and officiated in a different manner.

Bit pointless going over and over this though. You thought he was good, I didn't. Move on.

Every ref is different and referees in a different fashion.

It's just sour grapes after a 3rd dreadful performance imo.

[500miles]

Refereeing styles are different. I think it's poor phrasing from Clarke but he's obviously going to be a bit emotional. If he'd said, "a referee used to South American football is obviously going to be something European based players aren't used to, why are UEFA running experiments in the middle of our most important competition?" Then I think that would be an entirely legitimate question to ask.

I think Armstrong is too honest. He's trying to block the guy but still get a shot away. If he'd slowed, taken the contact and gone down facing forwards like a sack of tatties, it would have been a clear penalty in a ref friendly way. That's what almost all strikers would've done.

Offside or not is very close:

https://i.ibb.co/F0TL5b7/Screenshot-2024-06-24-at-11-25-38.png

That looks a lot more onside than I remember. 90% sure that boys knee is playing Armstrong on.

[SteveHFC]

Haven't missed these types of threads 😅

Been a few weeks since the last one we had on here. Need to make this into a monthly post. :greengrin

[DaveF]

That's potentially one of the reasons they are doing this in order to give refs experience of different styles so that when you get to a World Cup, there isn't a clash of styles.

Surely giving those referees nations league games is a better way to give them that experience as opposed to a crucial European championship game?

[He's here!]

Even then, the comment about him 'probably not speaking the language' is totally out of order.

As is the reference to 'his own country'. Managers and fans will criticise referees all day long but to cite his nationality as the issue was needless, especially as the video assistant also deemed the incident not worth another look by the ref.

It's silly talk and potentially inflammatory. If Southgate had said similar you can just imagine the 'Argie ref cost us the Euros' headlines.

[JeMeSouviens]

As is the reference to 'his own country'. Managers and fans will criticise referees all day long but to cite his nationality as the issue was needless, especially as the video assistant also deemed the incident not worth another look by the ref.

It's silly talk and potentially inflammatory. If Southgate had said similar you can just imagine the 'Argie ref cost us the Euros' headlines.

Silly, yes. Inflammatory, hardly. Let's not get out of hand with the pearl clutching.

[Coach Jon]

I think the correct procedure where a penalty has been missed but it was also a missed offside (so net effect, no penalty) is for VAR to get the ref to check the video and if he awards the penalty, it is then disallowed for offside. There's been a few instances where this has happened, including one involving Hibs (vs Livi this season just finished). I don't think a missed offside can be given other than where it involves a goal or a penalty - and the penalty must be given first for the offside to be given.

That is maybe how the technology is used in Scotland but the tech used in this Tournament is far superior, and flags up every single time a player is offside at exact time the ball is played forward to him. So in effect VAR official will know immediately when a player is offside, therefore no point in going through the lengthy and irrelevant process of having to make a penalty decision. Its all intended to arrive at decisions quicker, and in the majority of matches this has worked well. Had Armstrong been onside then there would have been an option to send the ref over to the monitor if they felt he had made an obvious error.

[Gloucester Hibs]

That is maybe how the technology is used in Scotland but the tech used in this Tournament is far superior, and flags up every single time a player is offside at exact time the ball is played forward to him. So in effect VAR official will know immediately when a player is offside, therefore no point in going through the lengthy and irrelevant process of having to make a penalty decision. Its all intended to arrive at decisions quicker, and in the majority of matches this has worked well. Had Armstrong been onside then there would have been an option to send the ref over to the monitor if they felt he had made an obvious error.

Still would've been nice if they had provided some clarity on this though instead of leaving half the stadium baffled/raging including SC.

[JimBHibees]

I will repeat VAR looked at it and decided it wasnt a penalty, Armstrong is clearly offside when the forward pass is made so that is the first thing VAR would check, no penalty can be given in those circumstances.

Think there was a possibility of offside though not clearly so if offside should have said that.

[JimBHibees]

A caller to Nicky Campbell's phone in has just pointed out that the video assistant referee was European and didn't see fit to ask the ref to take another look. How does Clarke square that with it being an Argentinian ref's fault?

Because he was the ref. The only reason var shouldn’t have got involved was if it was offside however would have been good if that was clarified at the game. If not offside it is a shocker of a decision by both var and onfield ref. We are absolutely within our rights to be unhappy about that if that is the case.

[Kato]

I did ask when I seen the referees announced on TV beforehand why we had an Argentine in charge for a UEFA competition...not that I feel that has anything to do with how he performed, I was just curious as to why. Lamentable to say the least that Clarke seems to think that merits being a stick to beat him with.

Clarke has done well getting this squad to two major competitions in a row. But I don't think he can progress us any further and I'd be keen to see a reset now. We were absolutely pitiful in this tournament and the last, and find ourselves with one win in 12 games (vs Gibraltar). I get we've played some of the biggest teams in Europe during that spell, but we haven't progressed or kicked on since sealing qualification...

That being said, he's pissing with the cock he has, and Scotland's lack of success is much more systemic - go outside and you see 'No Ball Games' signs everywhere - the cost/access of using actual parks is prohibitive, and there's been minimal investment in grass roots football from the SFA in the last 2 decades that haven't spurred on or developed any real talent. There needs to be a clean sweep - someone to look at how we're developing players from school, through to the professional game in this country - we can't keep relying on mediocre dross with a Scottish gran/parent resulting in taking us half a step forward. Our chronic lack of pace, creative forwards etc has been a weakness as long as I've been following this side (Euro 96 was my first, so not as long-suffering as some).

There are some quality individual players in our current squad but the lack of consistent production through our youth systems is a real area of concern - all professional clubs need to do more. The SFA need to do more. The school system need to more.

Clarke can go tomorrow, but it only solves part of the problem IMO.All great suggestions and something should be done but...all these suggestions could have been and were suggested throughout the 90s and 00s and nothing changed. I remember an article about Rosenburg and their forays into the Champions League years ago, between Hibs beating them 9-1 in the 70s and the mid 90s the Norwegian FA built around 20 football barns, all minimal cost or free to kids. Scotland built none.

To my mind the SFA's main purpose is to placate the OF, the national side and development of youth just isn't a priority. We are rotten because no-one in power cares enough.

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[AgentDaleCooper]

I think there is a fundamental problem in the management/ hierarchy of Scottish football where nobody actually believes in the sport, it always feels very negative and apologetic and a bit of a joke, glad to be at the tournament, did well to qualify etc.

Until that changes, we drop the small nation mentality and people actually have some belief in our game, we will always underperform and struggle to match the mentality of more successful nations who are the same size as we are.

IMO that's not the problem - plenty small nations like Netherlands, Croatia, even Wales and Iceland have had good runs at the Euros. I wouldn't say they play like big nations, I just think they play with confidence and a sense of who they are. Scotland doesn't know itself, and is afraid of doing so. Shakespeare said it in the 1600s, and it's still true today. Funny coincidence that every goal scorer for us at the Euros has been a Mc :wink:

[JimBHibees]

That chat about the ref's nationality is reprehensible. Get that to ****.

Hyperbole he is with his rights to query that ref in an enormous game comes from another continent where he may ref differently. His wording was clumsy i accept re lingo etc

[JimBHibees]

I only saw it for the first time this morning and, coupled with what looked like him being offside as you say, he's also doing his best to collide with the defender. Hard to see it as the blazing injustice Clarke claims it was. You'd see those given but equally you'd likely be pretty aggrieved if it was given against you.

A stonewall penalty cleared out from behind.

[SlickShoes]

IMO that's not the problem - plenty small nations like Netherlands, Croatia, even Wales and Iceland have had good runs at the Euros. I wouldn't say they play like big nations, I just think they play with confidence and a sense of who they are. Scotland doesn't know itself, and is afraid of doing so. Shakespeare said it in the 1600s, and it's still true today. Funny coincidence that every goal scorer for us at the Euros has been a Mc :wink:

Netherlands isn’t a small country, and with their colonisation in South American and the Caribbean it expands their player pool too. They also have a history of developing youth and haven’t ever relied solely on one generation of players. Their performance has generally been in line with their population and the game in their country.

Iceland are the real outliers, just a hard working team a bit like Scotland.

Wales had one of the best players in the world carrying them, I’d kill for someone like Bale in our team, we definitely wouldn’t have went out last night.

Croatia have one of the best midfielders on earth as their anchor, that’s starting to change now, but they have definitely outperformed their relative position.

We don’t have a single player than can be the individual difference in quality so we are like Iceland, work hard and get a bit of luck.

[JimBHibees]

Why is it fair to ask that? His nationality has no relevance at all.

He had a good game. VAR should've recommended a look at monitor for penalty.

Think it is a fair question to ask refs will ref slightly different from different parts of the world maybe allowing more play acting diving etc. Don’t think he was good seemed to give them a number of soft fouls, booking of McTominay a joke and gave them a free kick when their guy feigned being caught in the head.

[GreenPJ]

Why? We were flying, then we qualified, and completely took our foot off the throttle. What is it, one win in twelve games?


That’s not doing a good job, that’s just rank rotten. The attitude should have been to continue to put teams to the sword and keep momentum going.


No way should Clarke survive. One win in twelve is horrific and considering we knew how to win before it all can’t be put on the players.

:agree:

[AgentDaleCooper]

Netherlands isn’t a small country, and with their colonisation in South American and the Caribbean it expands their player pool too. They also have a history of developing youth and haven’t ever relied solely on one generation of players. Their performance has generally been in line with their population and the game in their country.

Iceland are the real outliers, just a hard working team a bit like Scotland.

Wales had one of the best players in the world carrying them, I’d kill for someone like Bale in our team, we definitely wouldn’t have went out last night.

Croatia have one of the best midfielders on earth as their anchor, that’s starting to change now, but they have definitely outperformed their relative position.

We don’t have a single player than can be the individual difference in quality so we are like Iceland, work hard and get a bit of luck.

all true. as a country, though - iceland know what they're about.

[hibsbollah]

Netherlands isn’t a small country, and with their colonisation in South American and the Caribbean it expands their player pool too. They also have a history of developing youth and haven’t ever relied solely on one generation of players. Their performance has generally been in line with their population and the game in their country.

Iceland are the real outliers, just a hard working team a bit like Scotland.

Wales had one of the best players in the world carrying them, I’d kill for someone like Bale in our team, we definitely wouldn’t have went out last night.

Croatia have one of the best midfielders on earth as their anchor, that’s starting to change now, but they have definitely outperformed their relative position.

We don’t have a single player than can be the individual difference in quality so we are like Iceland, work hard and get a bit of luck.

Iceland also had socialism. Chuck public money at large numbers of indoor facilities where the weather cant spoil the sport, leave for a few years and watch the results. My son plays in u17 leagues and we must have had 10 weekends lost to the weather, and as our winters get wetter with climate change unplayable pitches is only going to get worse. Our facilities in this country are expensive and poor quality. Iceland also train most of their kids coaches right up the coaching ladder, none of this ‘get an angry, win-obsessed Scots dad up to their second badge and call them a fully qualified coach’ nonsense.

[SlickShoes]

Iceland also had socialism. Chuck public money at large numbers of indoor facilities where the weather cant spoil the sport, leave for a few years and watch the results. My son plays in u17 leagues and we must have had 10 weekends lost to the weather, and as our winters get wetter with climate change unplayable pitches is only going to get worse. Our facilities in this country are expensive and poor quality. Iceland also train most of their kids coaches right up the coaching ladder, none of this ‘get an angry, win-obsessed Scots dad up to their second badge and call them a fully qualified coach’ nonsense.

It’s sad to hear that Scottish youth football is still the same as when I played.

It feels like our country is miles away from ever being able to provide those resources, they should be available, but in the current UK climate it doesn’t seem like it would ever be anyone’s priority.

[He's here!]

IMO that's not the problem - plenty small nations like Netherlands, Croatia, even Wales and Iceland have had good runs at the Euros. I wouldn't say they play like big nations, I just think they play with confidence and a sense of who they are. Scotland doesn't know itself, and is afraid of doing so. Shakespeare said it in the 1600s, and it's still true today. Funny coincidence that every goal scorer for us at the Euros has been a Mc :wink:

Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic can't match Scotland's qualification record for major tournaments (which hit a real purple patch from the mid-70s to the late 90s) but their record once there is significantly more impressive. Pretty sure Wales have got to the last eight of the World Cup and they definitely reached the Euro semi-finals a few years back. Northern Ireland have had a couple of last eight World Cup appearances, with some on here probably remembering their brilliant 1982 run. Jack Charlton got the best out of the Republic in the 90s, including a last eight run at the World Cup.

Last time I travelled to watch Scotland was 1998 and while I can't claim to have watched much of the most recent two Euros, their performances at the group stages of major tournaments has been pretty pathetic. From the 1950s onwards the only tournament of the 12 they've qualified for where you could say they really looked the part was 1974 - no coincidence that they had arguably their strongest ever side at that time.

[number9dream]

Clarke is such a huffy character, so he may walk away on seeing all the criticism. Don’t think the SFA will move to get rid of him though.
We were the most boring team in the tournament.
Albania and Georgia probably won’t go through either but they’re playing with a passion and determination that puts Clarke’s cautious approach to shame.

[I'm Spartacus]

Steve Clarke interviews like Strachan and picks his team like Levein.

[DinkyTwo]

Sticking with Adams up top when he's barely managed a touch of the ball all tournament was criminal.

I understand the need for continuity of shape and style of play, but we had almost our entire first pick backline out for this game.

After seeing it not work for 50 minutes, we should've stuck Forrest up front to Support Adams and move to a back 4. Not instead, wait until 70 minutes, put a CM at left back, retain shape and stick 3 attackers on. That compromised our shape entirely and made our left side so vulnerable, that Hungary could have had 3 goals in the last quarter of the match all originating from that side.

It was really bad management and I've serious concerns about Steve Clarke's ability to make us even remotely competitive at this level.

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[JimBHibees]

Sticking with Adams up top when he's barely managed a touch of the ball all tournament was criminal.

I understand the need for continuity of shape and style of play, but we had almost our entire first pick backline out for this game.

After seeing it not work for 50 minutes, we should've stuck Forrest up front to Support Adams and move to a back 4. Not instead, wait until 70 minutes, put a CM at left back, retain shape and stick 3 attackers on. That compromised our shape entirely and made our left side so vulnerable, that Hungary could have had 3 goals in the last quarter of the match all originating from that side.

It was really bad management and I've serious concerns about Steve Clarke's ability to make us even remotely competitive at this level.

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He has qualified us for the last two euros

[DIXIHIBS]

He has qualified us for the last two euros

Think some people forget this. We hadnt qualified for any finals for 20 odd years then get 2 euros in row. We played well in the qualifiers then hit a real slump and never really got out of it. I think he probably should move on and we can try a more positive style/manager but Clarke's record certainly allows him to stay on.

[One Day Soon]

It is an exchange programme. There's an Italian referee at the Copa America. The aim is to widen referees' experience of different football cultures, etc. They are going to do a similar thing with the Champions League/Europa League and their South American counterpart tournaments.

We'd be creaming ourselves if we could get English refs - or refs from anywhere else really - to come and officiate here instead of our own incompetents/West Central Scotland supporters. Somehow when that happens in a Euros game that's not alright?

He was reffing both sides and he booked plenty of Hungarians. He was fine, we were worse than mediocre.

[DinkyTwo]

He has qualified us for the last two eurosAnd we've scored one goal across 6 games that wasn't an OG...

That is not competitive by any stretch of the inagination

Do you feel that he managed the game last night sufficiently well?

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[DaveF]

We'd be creaming ourselves if we could get English refs - or refs from anywhere else really - to come and officiate here instead of our own incompetents/West Central Scotland supporters. Somehow when that happens in a Euros game that's not alright?

He was reffing both sides and he booked plenty of Hungarians. He was fine, we were worse than mediocre.

He wasn't 'fine' though. I thought he was picky, easily fell for play acting and booked for too many players for nothing challenges. If that's what you class as fine refereeing then fair enough.

In my view, he was no better than the idiots who do the SPFL.

[One Day Soon]

All great suggestions and something should be done but...all these suggestions could have been and were suggested throughout the 90s and 00s and nothing changed. I remember an article about Rosenburg and their forays into the Champions League years ago, between Hibs beating them 9-1 in the 70s and the mid 90s the Norwegian FA built around 20 football barns, all minimal cost or free to kids. Scotland built none.

To my mind the SFA's main purpose is to placate the OF, the national side and development of youth just isn't a priority. We are rotten because no-one in power cares enough.

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Could not be expressed more succinctly or accurately as a diagnosis of the 5hitty state of our game.

[Iain G]

Has negative norman fallen on his sword yet?

[One Day Soon]

Steve Clarke interviews like Strachan and picks his team like Levein.

Ooft

[DIXIHIBS]

And we've scored one goal across 6 games that wasn't an OG...

That is not competitive by any stretch of the inagination

Do you feel that he managed the game last night sufficiently well?

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No one is saying euro 24 was a success but to say we wernt competitive just isnt true. We were well beaten from Germany obviously but Switzerland and Hungary are well above us in the ranking and a 99th minute goal cost us 2 draws against those teams. Not great but we did compete. We clearly lack quality in certain(most) positions but until we produce those players, we are where we are.

[overdrive]

Steve Clarke interviews like Strachan and picks his team like Levein.

At least Strachan was funny

[hibsbollah]

No one is saying euro 24 was a success but to say we wernt competitive just isnt true. We were well beaten from Germany obviously but Switzerland and Hungary are well above us in the ranking and a 99th minute goal cost us 2 draws against those teams. Not great but we did compete. We clearly lack quality in certain(most) positions but until we produce those players, we are where we are.

I think we were the absolute definition of uncompetitive. Switzerland performance wasnt great, but a point was a good return against a better side than us. But Germany and Hungary games were just embarrassing. Absolutely nothing from an attacking point of view. We got what we deserved.

[w pilton hibby]

At least Strachan was funny

only in his own head ;)

[One Day Soon]

I've been struck by Georgia in this tournament. Way smaller population than ours and have played some really excellent football. How did they get to this?

Worth a look: https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/news/028b-1a82861777b8-02b917bac211-1000--georgia-breakthrough-built-on-years-of-development/

The SFA can dress it up however they like, they have serially failed - if indeed they ever really tried - to properly develop our game.

[Ryan91]

I think Clarke has reached his ceiling with regards to Scotland. I'm no fan of Shankland, but giving the top scoring Scottish striker 15 minutes in a MUST WIN game for qualifying for the knockout stages, is frankly criminal, more so when it was apparent he was providing a bit of creativity.

I wonder if the SFA would consider rolling the dice on a foreign manager again? I doubt it, because consensus seems to be that Moyes is quite keen on the job, and he wouldn't require compensation be paid out to his club, so the SFA will be more than happy to take the cheap option.

Don't think Moyes is a massive step up from Clarke in terms of how he sets out his teams, but you have to think that surely he'd have tried to go for it last night, rather than trying to play it safe.

[truehibernian]

The game was crying out for James Forrest last 20 minutes to get wide and commit their full back - plus he’d have been an additional goal threat. Clarke coming out with this “4 points” mantra was depressing too - out record since qualifying is shocking albeit the quality of some of the opponents were high. Hungary were really poor yet still could have scored 3 or 4 with more composure.

Moyes and Shearer are right though, the quality just isn’t there in certain positions, so academies need to be doing much much more to identify centre halves and strikers and develop them through the age groups in those positions other than doing what’s happening now and “converting” them into utility type players more often than not midfielders.

[JimBHibees]

I've been struck by Georgia in this tournament. Way smaller population than ours and have played some really excellent football. How did they get to this?

Worth a look: https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/news/028b-1a82861777b8-02b917bac211-1000--georgia-breakthrough-built-on-years-of-development/

The SFA can dress it up however they like, they have serially failed - if indeed they ever really tried - to properly develop our game.

Think your final point is the key one they haven’t really tried to develop the game at grassroots level

[JimBHibees]

No one is saying euro 24 was a success but to say we wernt competitive just isnt true. We were well beaten from Germany obviously but Switzerland and Hungary are well above us in the ranking and a 99th minute goal cost us 2 draws against those teams. Not great but we did compete. We clearly lack quality in certain(most) positions but until we produce those players, we are where we are.

Agree we were competitive just completely lacking in creative cohesion and genuine threat

[K-Zazu]

I've been struck by Georgia in this tournament. Way smaller population than ours and have played some really excellent football. How did they get to this?

Worth a look: https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/news/028b-1a82861777b8-02b917bac211-1000--georgia-breakthrough-built-on-years-of-development/

The SFA can dress it up however they like, they have serially failed - if indeed they ever really tried - to properly develop our game.

They have Kvaratskhelia which helps, one of the best players in the world.

[He's here!]

He has qualified us for the last two euros

The current tournament is the first we qualified for outright in 26 years. We failed to qualify from our group for the previous Euros (to be fair to Clarke McLeish may have been in charge for the early games?) and it was only the introduction of the Nations League that gave us a back door entry via a not especially challenging set of fixtures.

[Kato]

I've been struck by Georgia in this tournament. Way smaller population than ours and have played some really excellent football. How did they get to this?

Worth a look: https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/news/028b-1a82861777b8-02b917bac211-1000--georgia-breakthrough-built-on-years-of-development/

The SFA can dress it up however they like, they have serially failed - if indeed they ever really tried - to properly develop our game.

They didn't try. "Ernie Walkers Think Tank" (shudder) made recommendations that we had too many teams in the league structure and that the Scottish League and the SFA was one association too many. The following season we added a third association (SPL) and expanded the leagues to accommodate two more clubs. He did nothing for the games development while in charge, messed up in Argentina, messed up with Roxburgh and then was allowed to travel the world looking for modern ways in football and submitted a report that was quickly shelved.

I remember a set of stats from the 90's - in 1985 we had knocking on 30,000 under 16s playing for schools and boys clubs, by 1995 it was 7000. Not addressed and barely mentioned.

Most of great Scottish players from the past learned their football on the street or, if they were lucky, in public parks. Street football is non-existant and our local authorities like to charge money for access.

No one has looked to replace that culture or cared to think about it being replaced or publicly speak about anything that might replace it.

No one cares other than the fans and players. The SFA don't deserve the level of support the national side is given.

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[WestStandWillie]

Has to go. Abysmal showing from Scotland in another major tournament.

Someone told me some stats earlier and it doesn't make for good reading. Che Adams had just 6 touches in the penalty box over the 3 games.

Team was set up negatively, we had a captain who struggled to beat the first man with freekicks into the box and I think Stephen McGinn masqueraded as his brother.

1 win in 11 games and that was against Gibraltar. If this was club football, the pitchforks would be out. I honestly don't think he can get anymore out that squad (including his always selected favorites)

[Gordy M]

Has to go. Abysmal showing from Scotland in another major tournament.

Someone told me some stats earlier and it doesn't make for good reading. Che Adams had just 6 touches in the penalty box over the 3 games.

Team was set up negatively, we had a captain who struggled to beat the first man with freekicks into the box and I think Stephen McGinn masqueraded as his brother.

1 win in 11 games and that was against Gibraltar. If this was club football, the pitchforks would be out. I honestly don't think he can get anymore out that squad (including his always selected favorites)

In fairness, his record in acutal competitive games is pretty good.

[One Day Soon]

They didn't try. "Ernie Walkers Think Tank" (shudder) made recommendations that we had too many teams in the league structure and that the Scottish League and the SFA was one association too many. The following season we added a third association (SPL) and expanded the leagues to accommodate two more clubs. He did nothing for the games development while in charge, messed up in Argentina, messed up with Roxburgh and then was allowed to travel the world looking for modern ways in football and submitted a report that was quickly shelved.

I remember a set of stats from the 90's - in 1985 we had knocking on 30,000 under 16s playing for schools and boys clubs, by 1995 it was 7000. Not addressed and barely mentioned.

Most of great Scottish players from the past learned their football on the street or, if they were lucky, in public parks. Street football is non-existant and our local authorities like to charge money for access.

No one has looked to replace that culture or cared to think about it being replaced or publicly speak about anything that might replace it.

No one cares other than the fans and players. The SFA don't deserve the level of support the national side is given.

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Once again I am in complete agreement. We have a league 'system' that is ill-structured, two dominant clubs who don't need or want there to be widespread development of talent because they get as much as they want from either side of their ugly divide anyway, disinterest from the non-football authorities, fractured governing bodies, kids expected to excel in spite of the system not because of it and actually a national stadium that reflects our game perfectly - half-assed and way beyond need of rebuilding.

It is our national game and yet it is the playing of about five people. Pathetic.

[He's here!]

Has to go. Abysmal showing from Scotland in another major tournament.

Someone told me some stats earlier and it doesn't make for good reading. Che Adams had just 6 touches in the penalty box over the 3 games.

Team was set up negatively, we had a captain who struggled to beat the first man with freekicks into the box and I think Stephen McGinn masqueraded as his brother.

1 win in 11 games and that was against Gibraltar. If this was club football, the pitchforks would be out. I honestly don't think he can get anymore out that squad (including his always selected favorites)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c9777vz1d08o

Tom English lays bare the stats here.

I'm not really a fan of Tom English, but does he have a point about tiredness, especially for the likes of McGinn and Robertson? The guys who play for the top English clubs are competing at a very high level over the course of a very long season when you factor in the many European ties they play. The likes of Liverpool and Villa would, I imagine, beat Scotland comfortably so it's arguably a lot to ask these guys to bring their A game to a close-season tournament (and being asked to carry some distinctly average team-mates) when they should really be replenishing their energy. Ditto for a lot of the England players, who have been accused of looking knackered. Not sure if other nations' domestic schedules are as demanding but it would be interesting to see.

[MWHIBBIES]

Think it is a fair question to ask refs will ref slightly different from different parts of the world maybe allowing more play acting diving etc. Don’t think he was good seemed to give them a number of soft fouls, booking of McTominay a joke and gave them a free kick when their guy feigned being caught in the head.

And are those things specific to South America? Or do they happen all the time over here?

What mistakes did he make because South Americans referee differently?

Scotland were utterly gash over 3 matches. The worst team at the tournament. That's the concern.

[JimBHibees]

And are those things specific to South America? Or do they happen all the time over here?

What mistakes did he make because South Americans referee differently?

Scotland were utterly gash over 3 matches. The worst team at the tournament. That's the concern.

Yet he still didn’t give a clear penalty which would have likely seen us through.Thought we were decent against Swiss and last night was a bizarrely cagey game for two teams who needed to win.

I think there are different ways of reffing in different countries eg not many countries refs would allow so much to go that ours do here.

[JimBHibees]

The current tournament is the first we qualified for outright in 26 years. We failed to qualify from our group for the previous Euros (to be fair to Clarke McLeish may have been in charge for the early games?) and it was only the introduction of the Nations League that gave us a back door entry via a not especially challenging set of fixtures.

My point still remains irrespective of you trying to underplay his achievement

[MWHIBBIES]

Yet he still didn’t give a clear penalty which would have likely seen us through.Thought we were decent against Swiss and last night was a bizarrely cagey game for two teams who needed to win.

I think there are different ways of reffing in different countries eg not many countries refs would allow so much to go that ours do here.

Both him and the European var official failed to give that penalty so nout to do with their nationality.

Our refs are just crap. They don't "let things go". They just miss them or get them wrong.

[He's here!]

My point still remains irrespective of you trying to underplay his achievement

Not underplaying it, just pointing out we were grateful for the parachute-style second chance to qualify which, while we didn't make the subsequent World Cup, probably helped to instil a mentality that we COULD actually make it to major tournaments. The way results have fallen off a cliff since qualification seems like a cause for concern though.

[JimBHibees]

Both him and the European var official failed to give that penalty so nout to do with their nationality.

Our refs are just crap. They don't "let things go". They just miss them or get them wrong.

Agree it was a poor decision irrespective of nationality

[One Day]

I will repeat VAR looked at it and decided it wasnt a penalty, Armstrong is clearly offside when the forward pass is made so that is the first thing VAR would check, no penalty can be given in those circumstances.

I must admit my 1st reaction was that he was offside too.

[Smartie]

They didn't try. "Ernie Walkers Think Tank" (shudder) made recommendations that we had too many teams in the league structure and that the Scottish League and the SFA was one association too many. The following season we added a third association (SPL) and expanded the leagues to accommodate two more clubs. He did nothing for the games development while in charge, messed up in Argentina, messed up with Roxburgh and then was allowed to travel the world looking for modern ways in football and submitted a report that was quickly shelved.

I remember a set of stats from the 90's - in 1985 we had knocking on 30,000 under 16s playing for schools and boys clubs, by 1995 it was 7000. Not addressed and barely mentioned.

Most of great Scottish players from the past learned their football on the street or, if they were lucky, in public parks. Street football is non-existant and our local authorities like to charge money for access.

No one has looked to replace that culture or cared to think about it being replaced or publicly speak about anything that might replace it.

No one cares other than the fans and players. The SFA don't deserve the level of support the national side is given.

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I'm not normally all that into the inevitable hand-wringing that goes on after every Scottish underachievement is cemented but there are some great points here.

It may have been in relation to rugby (which I neither follow nor play) but I remember the point being made once about the link between the number of people who regularly play a particular sport and the performance of the national team in that sport - and I've failed to understand why rectifying this was never given more prominence. Kids love playing football yet we put so many barriers in their way to being able to do so - makes no sense to me.


It's really not a popular standpoint but I still feel fairly glass half full about Scotland. In spite of all our obvious deficiencies we have a core of players who are better than they've been for a couple of decades and a manager who has now got them to 2 finals. Between now and the world cup we could do with Ben Doak making an impression at Liverpool, Hickey remaining fit enough to play well at RWB and Porteous learning to stop being a fanny. None of these are unachievable goals and all would make a big difference to our chances.

That's we get into the inevitable stuff about number of teams in the premier league and playstations.

[Keith_M]

This possession for possession’s sake style of play that we watched for most of this match is brutal. What’s the point in keeping the ball if you don’t test the keeper or create chances?

Hungary must have been delighted, all they had to do was sit in and counter and they could easily have been ahead at half time.

We should have had a penalty, which I think will have been enough to win (assuming we scored it) but that doesn’t mask an inept attacking performance - we can’t be relying on winning a game with one of two chances. It’s an idiotic way to approach a football match.


Echoes my thoughts exactly, Matty.

[Just_Jimmy]

He wasn't 'fine' though. I thought he was picky, easily fell for play acting and booked for too many players for nothing challenges. If that's what you class as fine refereeing then fair enough.

In my view, he was no better than the idiots who do the SPFL.He was brutal. I said that after about 20 minutes and he didn't improve.

He got a major call wrong, not helped by var which, despite how dross we were, has probably cos us a historic qualification to the next round.

Clarke isn't blameless at all and I'd happily see him go, but he's right to feel the ref was crap.

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[PatHead]

Other than Shankland and the old firm players, what other Scottish Premiership players were in the squad?

[whiskyhibby]

This possession for possession’s sake style of play that we watched for most of this match is brutal. What’s the point in keeping the ball if you don’t test the keeper or create chances?

Hungary must have been delighted, all they had to do was sit in and counter and they could easily have been ahead at half time.

We should have had a penalty, which I think will have been enough to win (assuming we scored it) but that doesn’t mask an inept attacking performance - we can’t be relying on winning a game with one of two chances. It’s an idiotic way to approach a football match.

completely agree, I think Clarkes only play was to condense the game into the last 10 minutes where both teams would need a win a hope that we got the goal before them,,,,,,,,absolutely brutal stuff from Scotland throughout the 3 games, we are well behind at this level

[Iain G]

IMO that's not the problem - plenty small nations like Netherlands, Croatia, even Wales and Iceland have had good runs at the Euros. I wouldn't say they play like big nations, I just think they play with confidence and a sense of who they are. Scotland doesn't know itself, and is afraid of doing so. Shakespeare said it in the 1600s, and it's still true today. Funny coincidence that every goal scorer for us at the Euros has been a Mc :wink:

Apart from the two own goals? 🤣

[oneone73]

Other than Shankland and the old firm players, what other Scottish Premiership players were in the squad?

Clark and Kelly

[whiskyhibby]

And we've scored one goal across 6 games that wasn't an OG...

That is not competitive by any stretch of the inagination

Do you feel that he managed the game last night sufficiently well?

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Completely agree, Scotland have been poor for the last dozen games, he needs to move on

[Iain G]

The game was crying out for James Forrest last 20 minutes to get wide and commit their full back - plus he’d have been an additional goal threat. Clarke coming out with this “4 points” mantra was depressing too - out record since qualifying is shocking albeit the quality of some of the opponents were high. Hungary were really poor yet still could have scored 3 or 4 with more composure.

Moyes and Shearer are right though, the quality just isn’t there in certain positions, so academies need to be doing much much more to identify centre halves and strikers and develop them through the age groups in those positions other than doing what’s happening now and “converting” them into utility type players more often than not midfielders.

Agreed! We needed someone running at them, causing some problems and committing their defenders, and a change up from the static attack we had for most of the game.

He didn't use the resources that were available to him in the best way, could and should have gone to a back four for this game and played with some width up front, he didn't but then didn't change it at all and swapped like for like.

Did well in qualifying but embarrassing tournament with no goals scored by a Scottish player and no desire to go try win a game.

Next....

[Paul1642]

Other than Shankland and the old firm players, what other Scottish Premiership players were in the squad?

I think the days of Scotland squads having more than a few non Old Firm Scottish Premiership players are gone for good.

In fairness there weren’t any from the league missing from the squad that should have been there IMO.

[McD]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c9777vz1d08o

Tom English lays bare the stats here.

I'm not really a fan of Tom English, but does he have a point about tiredness, especially for the likes of McGinn and Robertson? The guys who play for the top English clubs are competing at a very high level over the course of a very long season when you factor in the many European ties they play. The likes of Liverpool and Villa would, I imagine, beat Scotland comfortably so it's arguably a lot to ask these guys to bring their A game to a close-season tournament (and being asked to carry some distinctly average team-mates) when they should really be replenishing their energy. Ditto for a lot of the England players, who have been accused of looking knackered. Not sure if other nations' domestic schedules are as demanding but it would be interesting to see.


I was going to make a similar point last night. For the last 4 years, Robertson has effectively been playing non stop, between summer internationals and a club side that generally go far in Europe and are competing for trophies. Over a slightly longer timescale, for the last 6-7 years, the only extended break he’s had (injuries aside) was the covid stoppage of sports.

Whilst they may not have had as much European football, the likes of McGinn, mctominay, and mcgregor have been virtual mainstays of teams who have been playing a high level.

I dont keep much of an eye on the English championship, so don’t know how much those Scottish players have been playing, but more than a few have looked knackered, and that extends to other nations players as well.

[GreenCastle]

I think the days of Scotland squads having more than a few non Old Firm Scottish Premiership players are gone for good.

In fairness there weren’t any from the league missing from the squad that should have been there IMO.

You could nearly argue that all players should be selected from other leagues and avoid the SPL as they aren’t up to the speed / level of play required.

Even the Old Firm players often get found out on Euro nights.

It’s a worry though as Championship players are pretty bang average too at times - so it’s an issue we don’t have enough players playing at the required level to be successful…along with a manager who has no clue how to set up a positive team.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

You could nearly argue that all players should be selected from other leagues and avoid the SPL as they aren’t up to the speed / level of play required.

Even the Old Firm players often get found out on Euro nights.

It’s a worry though as Championship players are pretty bang average too at times - so it’s an issue we don’t have enough players playing at the required level to be successful…along with a manager who has no clue how to set up a positive team.

The guy in the Hungary team that caused us the most bother - and imo swung the game in their direction- plays in South Korea. If you’re good enough, you’re good enough regardless of the league you play in.


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[Viva_Palmeiras]

Paw Broon nursed an aging squad until the “night a team died” in a 5-0? Defeat against …. Portugal where McCoist broke his leg.

he didn’t from memory appear to blood young players enough. The old guard hung on. You could argue that held us back as we needed to rebuild but never he just realised that’ was the best aging quality we had. In the end we qualified if unspectacularly for 5 in a row (Billy Connolly even jokes about it in An Audience With…

so we’re minister in term of a pool and limited in term of ability. Mark? Wottr apparently left about 5 years in to a 10 year plan and claimed his job was done the academies were baring fruit he name checked James Forrest and Sibbald at the time….

I wonder how his tenure is views now and Malky - what’s the lag time in his influence?
if we look to the Elite status clubs in terms of youth development - are we not one? - we’ve underperformed no?

[Crunchie]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.
Absolutely bang on the money :top marks

[Forza Fred]

The guy in the Hungary team that caused us the most bother - and imo swung the game in their direction- plays in South Korea. If you’re good enough, you’re good enough regardless of the league you play in.


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Some strong sides in South Korea…..very difficult national side to knock over.

[neil7908]

I think looking at how some of the bigger nations have fared in the Euros should give the 'sack the manager' side some pause for thought.

Apart from Spain and maybe Germany, has any team played great football consistently or really shone?

England and France have some of the best attacking talents in the world - Kane, Bellingham, Mbappe, Griezmann etc. England have the same number in the 'goals for column' as Scotland in the group stage, and France have finished second.

The Euros is a tough tournament and plenty of teams are finding attacking, expansive football hard to come by.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Some strong sides in South Korea…..very difficult national side to knock over.

Absolutely, you’re not wrong! However on paper someone that plays for a good team in England should theoretically be better than someone playing in South Korea. That’s not always the case, is what I was getting at. Wasn’t trying to knock the Koreans or the league[emoji16]


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[Musselbound]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c9777vz1d08o

Tom English lays bare the stats here.

I'm not really a fan of Tom English, but does he have a point about tiredness, especially for the likes of McGinn and Robertson? The guys who play for the top English clubs are competing at a very high level over the course of a very long season when you factor in the many European ties they play. The likes of Liverpool and Villa would, I imagine, beat Scotland comfortably so it's arguably a lot to ask these guys to bring their A game to a close-season tournament (and being asked to carry some distinctly average team-mates) when they should really be replenishing their energy. Ditto for a lot of the England players, who have been accused of looking knackered. Not sure if other nations' domestic schedules are as demanding but it would be interesting to see.

I really don't get this line of argument. The likes of La Liga and Serie A play the same number of games as the top leagues in England and Scotland. The Bundesliga plays a bit less (34) but you've had Dortmund and Leverkusen progressing to European finals. How many games do Real Madrid play over the course of a season including pre season foreign tours, world club championships etc?

It's maybe not ideal for the players but the ones from these clubs or countries seem to be holding up ok. Seems to me like yet another excuse for the performances of Scotland and England so far.

[Greenio]

Expected reaction to going out - it's the managers fault, sack the manager, another manager would do better.

Has any manager done better in the last 26 years? No.

So, what makes anyone think another manager would do better? Given that no other manager has

[Onion]

Expected reaction to going out - it's the managers fault, sack the manager, another manager would do better.

Has any manager done better in the last 26 years? No.

So, what makes anyone think another manager would do better? Given that no other manager has

Agreed. Clarke has done a fantastic job for Scotland, beating teams on the way to Euro 24 we had no expectation or right to. Yes, the finals were a let down but there are many reasons for that - poor form going into them, injuries to important players, reliance on too few stars who didn't perform.

Big yellow taxi for Clarke ?

I'm with Joni Mitchell.

[JimBHibees]

I’m going to defend him.

He did well to qualify.

Once we were there - we had the 4th best group of players in our group and he finished 4th. That’s before injuries got involved.

Yes, his approach is quite negative… but what do you do against quality opposition with a bunch of central midfielders, left backs and little else?

He might have opened up or made subs 10 minutes or so earlier in the 2nd and third games but those arguing that we should have opened up more - we were ironically picked off by the Hungarians only after we’d opened up.

I like Clarke and imo he’s wringing everything out of a limited group of players. It’s tempting to look for a scapegoat when we’re hurting but I don’t think anyone else has much more chance of giving us what we want than Clarke.

Agree with that think some of the reaction has been poor. Listened to the bbc sportsound podcast couple of days back you had luminaries of the game like Macintyre Crichton and Steven Thompson ripping into him. Hugely disrespectful imo

[B.H.F.C]

You look at Austria topping a group with France and the Netherlands in it. Slovenia getting through in a group with England and Denmark in it. Teams that are squeezing everything they can out of their players. Clarke was nowhere near doing that with ours.

[easty]

I don’t think anyone would argue against the fact that he did brilliantly to get us there. It wasn’t so brilliant that it gets him a free pass forever more though.

It’s nothing to do with tiredness, the majority of the players at the tournament play the same number of games.

It’s nothing to do with the SPL not being good enough. We’re just as good as the Swiss league, Slovakian, Slovenian, Georgian, Czech leagues.

We were terrible. Adams up front on his own was always going to be difficult. Didnae work v Germany. Didnae work v Switzerland. Why did Clarke even try it again v Hungary?

We got nothing right at this tournament.

1 win in 12 games, and that came in a terrible performance v Gibraltar.

It’s time for him to go.

[KeithTheHibby]

Expected reaction to going out - it's the managers fault, sack the manager, another manager would do better.

Has any manager done better in the last 26 years? No.

So, what makes anyone think another manager would do better? Given that no other manager has

His recent run of 1 win in 12 would get a club manager sacked.
If you add in his inability to get a win in major games then there is every right for calls for him to be sacked.

[Greenio]

His recent run of 1 win in 12 would get a club manager sacked.
If you add in his inability to get a win in major games then there is every right for calls for him to be sacked.

Overall results have dropped for sure but there are friendly games in that 12 no? Can't bring them into it surely

I feel if you are judging someone you have to judge them against expectations. For Scotland, like it or not, the bar is set at getting us to major tournaments - hes done that, twice...no other manager for the last 26 years did that.

[easty]

Overall results have dropped for sure but there are friendly games in that 12 no? Can't bring them into it surely

I feel if you are judging someone you have to judge them against expectations. For Scotland, like it or not, the bar is set at getting us to major tournaments - hes done that, twice...no other manager for the last 26 years did that.

I wouldn’t judge club managers on friendlies but I think it’s fair game with international managers.

As for expectations - weren’t yours higher for this tournament than what we got? There’s more to meeting expectations than winning games, for me. We could’ve failed to qualify out of the group stage and still shown up well. We did neither.

[hibsbollah]

Ewan Murray, not a hack i like, gets it right here. Yes Clarke got a lot wrong but our structure and our talent pool is the problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/24/scotland-exit-with-a-whimper-with-worrying-questions-about-future-of-the-team

[Smartie]

I don’t think anyone would argue against the fact that he did brilliantly to get us there. It wasn’t so brilliant that it gets him a free pass forever more though.

It’s nothing to do with tiredness, the majority of the players at the tournament play the same number of games.

It’s nothing to do with the SPL not being good enough. We’re just as good as the Swiss league, Slovakian, Slovenian, Georgian, Czech leagues.

We were terrible. Adams up front on his own was always going to be difficult. Didnae work v Germany. Didnae work v Switzerland. Why did Clarke even try it again v Hungary?

We got nothing right at this tournament.

1 win in 12 games, and that came in a terrible performance v Gibraltar.

It’s time for him to go.

I do think Clarke brings some of the criticism on himself.

When you adopt an ultra negative approach (or even a fairly cautious approach) it doesn't exactly excite the fans and get them on your side. If it gets results then everybody is happy but if it doesn't - you're often then open to extreme criticism.

I sort of understood Clarke's approach - and we were a dubious penalty call from being firmly in the driving seat for going further than we've ever done in our history. That would have been the statistic that mattered, not shots on target or XG or whatever.

When the fine margins don't go your way though, he knows as well as anyone that all sorts of potential criticisms then come your way.

And it does feel extra galling to go out with a relative whimper rather than a bang.

[matty_f]

I do think Clarke brings some of the criticism on himself.

When you adopt an ultra negative approach (or even a fairly cautious approach) it doesn't exactly excite the fans and get them on your side. If it gets results then everybody is happy but if it doesn't - you're often then open to extreme criticism.

I sort of understood Clarke's approach - and we were a dubious penalty call from being firmly in the driving seat for going further than we've ever done in our history. That would have been the statistic that mattered, not shots on target or XG or whatever.

When the fine margins don't go your way though, he knows as well as anyone that all sorts of potential criticisms then come your way.

And it does feel extra galling to go out with a relative whimper rather than a bang.

That’s always the risk of the approach that Clarke took, when it doesn’t work everyone thinks we didn’t give it a proper go. Had we ground out a result he’d have got the plaudits for trying over the line even though it wasn’t pretty.

I wouldn’t sack him, he’s very popular with the players who are all on board with him, he’s clearly very capable given two successful qualifying campaigns so I think it would be change for change sake and I’m not convinced there are many managers out there who could get more out the squad.

[J-C]

In a must win game we had 1 yes one shot on target, forget any penalty claim, we did nothing in a game we needed to win and his subs again added nothing, probably made us worse.

[Bushwoof]

In a must win game we had 1 yes one shot on target, forget any penalty claim, we did nothing in a game we needed to win and his subs again added nothing, probably made us worse.

100%. We were woeful from the 1st minute, and Clarke has to take responsibility. We should have made changes at half time, if not before, when it was apparent that Hungary were going to sit back. When the subs were finally made it was as if a 10-year old had chosen them, we were a shambles and lucky not to concede sooner. We should remember that it's much easier to qualify for the Euros now than it used to be. Clarke has done fairly well, but his time's up.

[KeithTheHibby]

Overall results have dropped for sure but there are friendly games in that 12 no? Can't bring them into it surely

I feel if you are judging someone you have to judge them against expectations. For Scotland, like it or not, the bar is set at getting us to major tournaments - hes done that, twice...no other manager for the last 26 years did that.


How much of qualifying is down to just generally having better players? I’d say quite a lot. I’m not knocking his record at getting us to competitions however his record when there is atrocious. Chuck in the WC play off game against Ukraine and it’s clear he isn’t learning from these games.

[He's here!]

How much of qualifying is down to just generally having better players? I’d say quite a lot. I’m not knocking his record at getting us to competitions however his record when there is atrocious. Chuck in the WC play off game against Ukraine and it’s clear he isn’t learning from these games.

Maybe having these tournaments during the domestic season, like the most recent World Cup, is the the way forward? Scotland seemed to play better during the qualifiers which took place when the players were turning out each week for their clubs and are at peak fitness, not at the end of a long season.

[JimBHibees]

In a must win game we had 1 yes one shot on target, forget any penalty claim, we did nothing in a game we needed to win and his subs again added nothing, probably made us worse.

Why forget any penalty claim it is highly important. Many teams struggle in games and nick a goal and then gain confidence for it. It is inconceivable that wasn’t given imo

[J-C]

Why forget any penalty claim it is highly important. Many teams struggle in games and nick a goal and then gain confidence for it. It is inconceivable that wasn’t given imo

The penalty has nothing to do with the fact the tactics were poor and the team were inept, we should not be relying on penalty claims.

[easty]

Why forget any penalty claim it is highly important. Many teams struggle in games and nick a goal and then gain confidence for it. It is inconceivable that wasn’t given imo

The penalty claim came in the 80th min of our 3rd game. It's a bit late in the day for hoping to gain a bit of confidence...

[blackpoolhibs]

The penalty has nothing to do with the fact the tactics were poor and the team were inept, we should not be relying on penalty claims.

Small margins.

If we had rightly been given that penalty and scored, these players and manager would have recieved the freedom of the country.

[Since452]

Small margins.

If we had rightly been given that penalty and scored, these players and manager would have recieved the freedom of the country.

Very fine margins. Would he have done better with all players fit and available? Probably. Our form has been abysmal for quite a while now though. Clarke has done a brilliant job and can be proud of his achievements but it's probably time for a change now.

[Mark05]

Now that I have had a few days to calm down,thought about the injuries we had I think For me Steve Clarke has just about enough credit left in the bank to keep his job.But he must realise now he has to be more forward thinking or the fans will turn very quickly and it could get ugly which would be a shame considering what he has done getting us to tournaments

[Smartie]

The penalty has nothing to do with the fact the tactics were poor and the team were inept, we should not be relying on penalty claims.

What should we be doing with our inferior set of players though?

If we're more open we may well get picked off defensively and give ourselves more to do going forward.

I don't think it's just as simple as do something different, play better, get more chances, win. There's another team trying to beat you to take into consideration.

Ultimately the plan failed and Clarke will take appropriate criticism but whilst it really wasn't easy on the eye, I don't think it was a mad approach to take with the players available - and it wasn't a million miles off being successful.

[easty]

What should we be doing with our inferior set of players though?

If we're more open we may well get picked off defensively and give ourselves more to do going forward.

I don't think it's just as simple as do something different, play better, get more chances, win. There's another team trying to beat you to take into consideration.

Ultimately the plan failed and Clarke will take appropriate criticism but whilst it really wasn't easy on the eye, I don't think it was a mad approach to take with the players available - and it wasn't a million miles off being successful.

Inferior to that Hungary side? Nah, not for me.

[Since90+2]

Hungary were better on the ball than us, sure I read they had 62% possession. Of course that isn't the be all and end all but does indicate we are still technically behind these nations.

Our striking options were Adams who gives his all but just doesn't have any goal threat and Shankland who's a good goal scorer at SPL level but is so slow at the top level. We were always fighting a losing battle with those options.

[One Day Soon]

Small margins.

If we had rightly been given that penalty and scored, these players and manager would have recieved the freedom of the country.


Part of me watching that Hungary game was thinking that it almost wouldn't feel right if that group of Scotland players, playing that grim way, was the first ever Scotland side to make it out of the group stage of a major tournament.

[J-C]

What should we be doing with our inferior set of players though?

If we're more open we may well get picked off defensively and give ourselves more to do going forward.

I don't think it's just as simple as do something different, play better, get more chances, win. There's another team trying to beat you to take into consideration.

Ultimately the plan failed and Clarke will take appropriate criticism but whilst it really wasn't easy on the eye, I don't think it was a mad approach to take with the players available - and it wasn't a million miles off being successful.

Inferior, we have players plying their trade in the EPL, top Championship and Scottish champions, nonsense to say not good enough, poor tactics and poor team performances.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hungary were better on the ball than us, sure I read they had 62% possession. Of course that isn't the be all and end all but does indicate we are still technically behind these nations.

Our striking options were Adams who gives his all but just doesn't have any goal threat and Shankland who's a good goal scorer at SPL level but is so slow at the top level. We were always fighting a losing battle with those options.

Scotland had 58% possession and 150 more passes.

Scotland had 4 attempts, Hungary had 14.

[Smartie]

Inferior, we have players plying their trade in the EPL, top Championship and Scottish champions, nonsense to say not good enough, poor tactics and poor team performances.

There's quite a jump between our better players - who I grant you, are very good - and our poorer players.

Overall - it's not a great squad after the injuries.

[Since90+2]

Scotland had 58% possession and 150 more passes.

Scotland had 4 attempts, Hungary had 14.

I was obviously more pished than I thought leaving the ground in Stuttgart in that case 🤣

[B.H.F.C]

I was obviously more pished than I thought leaving the ground in Stuttgart in that case 🤣

We might have had more of the ball but they were definitely better with it, without doing much themselves.

It was very like Hibs last season. Loads of the ball, nothing much happening, lose a crap goal late on.

[MWHIBBIES]

We might have had more of the ball but they were definitely better with it, without doing much themselves.

It was very like Hibs last season. Loads of the ball, nothing much happening, lose a crap goal late on.

I don't think that describes Hibs. We had no problem scoring goals.

[matty_f]

I don't think that describes Hibs. We had no problem scoring goals.

It was very like a number of our performances last season where we failed to get the keeper in the game.

[B.H.F.C]

Look at the way Georgia have approached their games in comparison to us. We were the most negative team in the tournament. In the one game where were more positive and played on the front foot, we did well and got a good result. Sometimes just a bit of endeavour and willingness to run forward goes a long way.

Albania were similar in their games, even if they ended up with nothing to show for it in a very tough group.

[Colr]

Look at the way Georgia have approached their games in comparison to us. We were the most negative team in the tournament. In the one game where were more positive and played on the front foot, we did well and got a good result. Sometimes just a bit of endeavour and willingness to run forward goes a long way.

Albania were similar in their games, even if they ended up with nothing to show for it in a very tough group.

We did well in the qualifiers. Too cagey there after. Nobody much expects Scotland to get out of the group so no need to be defensive. Rather go down with some fight than with a whimper.

We could deffo do with a decent striker or two.

[Stuart93]

Look at the way Georgia have approached their games in comparison to us. We were the most negative team in the tournament. In the one game where were more positive and played on the front foot, we did well and got a good result. Sometimes just a bit of endeavour and willingness to run forward goes a long way.

Albania were similar in their games, even if they ended up with nothing to show for it in a very tough group.

Correct

The negativity in our performances stems straight from the manager imo

[Smartie]

It's easier to play on the front foot when you're up against a reserve team who are already in the second round.

[007]

5 of the 6 teams ranked lower in the FIFA rankings than us have made it through. Romania, Turkey, Georgia, Slovakia and Slovenia.

[hibsbollah]

5 of the 6 teams ranked lower in the FIFA rankings than us have made it through. Romania, Turkey, Georgia, Slovakia and Slovenia.

Gaun the Central Europe/Eastern Mediterranean cool: