Monty must stay

[Brightside]

We need time. We need players to show what they did tonight.

[Jones28]

Time, yes.

I’m not desperate for Monty to stay but I want my mind to be changed.

[Unseen work]

That’s exactly it thought, we need to see that every week.

What we’ve seen the last 7 games isn’t what we saw tonight.

7 games without a league win now, worst since 2019 according to the commentator

[CMac1988]

He's buys himself a minute. Got a few players back. Changed to a formation that suits and gets more out of certain players.

He really needs to start winning games though. Stick with that formation and get a win at the weekend. Get a little confidence and take that into the Aberdeen and Dundee games. If we can't get a win out of the next 3 league games then something's got to give.

[Tyler Durden]

Tonight was the first step with getting the formation changed. And also playing a higher line tbf. He needs to stick with this now and with a bit of luck he can turn this around

[lyonhibs]

He's bought himself a stay of execution to prove that wasn't a "flash in a pan" occurrence against a big team.

Let's see what performance the team turns in for the next 3 games......

[MrRobot]

We need time. We need players to show what they did tonight.

It’s madness to even consider wanting him gone already.

He changed the set up, he’s brought his own players in and that’s probably our best performance of the season.

Moriah-Welsh looks a great signing too. Him, Marcondes and Newell will make some midfield trio IMO.

Liked the look of Amos when he came on too.

[Northernhibee]

I still think we have a good manager. It’s not worked out so far, but I do still trust in his ability.

I hope he backs up my faith in him.

[LunasBoots]

He's got time, but he needs to pick up results and performances, play like tonight every game, don't just raise your game for the big ones. I hope he succeeds.

[Greencore]

Can't keep sacking managers.

I'm backing him. He will come good.

[Hibeesdaft16]

He's bought himself a stay of execution to prove that wasn't a "flash in a pan" occurrence against a big team.

Let's see what performance the team turns in for the next 3 games......

:agree:

[Johnny_Leith]

I posted not long into his tenure on the PM board that his tactical inflexibility was a big red flag.

Changing it to three in the middle of the park for a 4-3-3/4-5-1 helped us so much and helped lay the foundations for a good performance.

Monty coming good would be great but this is, imo, the first time we've had a good performance in a huge game. We need to see more of the good parts of tonight and more importantly, get some W's and into the next round of the cup.

[Stevie Reid]

He could, and should, have been using that shape for months. Players were much more comfortable and we looked a real threat. His stubbornness has cost us a lot to this point.

Let’s see if we can maintain that level of performance - and most importantly - start winning again.

Only then can we say he gets more time. Ultimately we still lost tonight, regardless of the much improved performance.

[thebausburst]

Let’s not forget it’s still no win since 9th of December and we’re virtually 10 points off 5th!! Europe is now long gone without a miracle run which looks unlikely.

[The Harp Awakes]

Took him a while but delighted to see the Manager changed the formation. 3 in midfield made a big difference. Play Levitt further up the park and he'll score goals.

[judas]

Can't keep sacking managers.

I'm backing him. He will come good.

This

[The Modfather]

He made tough decisions and has possibly made pragmatic decisions he didn’t want to in dropping the likes of Tavares and changing from his preferred 442/4231.

Getting Miller back, and Boyle. Being able to start Moriah-Welsh, who looks everything our midfield has lacked for years, getting Maolida up to speed as he is much more suited to playing on his own than Vente are all the little things that came together for tonight’s performance. One game at a time, but I’m still happy to give him more time.

Nectar also looked good once he settled.

[1875Sean]

Need to use this as a turning point, stay with the shape and take that forward, newell and levitt are alot better in a 3

[Mike Berry]

I don't care what anyone says, that was a rousing performance tonight, and something to build on.

Sent from my SM-S901B using Tapatalk

[HFC 0-7]

We have been here before with a struggling manager putting out a team that has a very good game then the next game it reverts back to a struggling disjointed team. It’s all about the next 3 or 4 games, we need to keep that level of performance up.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s almost like changing from his ridiculous system that he employed was a good idea.. imagine that?

That being said, it’s one game. Play like that every week and we’ll be fine. I can’t say I’m confident of that. I’m not even confident he’ll not go back to his failed system.

[HoboHarry]

Can't keep sacking managers.

I'm backing him. He will come good.

Exactly. Now he has the players to move forward and I expect him to do just that.

[beensaidbefore]

I don't care what anyone says, that was a rousing performance tonight, and something to build on.

Sent from my SM-S901B using Tapatalk

Agree 100%

[Scottie]

Just seen his interview and he’s totally gutted for the players and fans. Speaking from the heart. Hope he can turn this horrible run around now he has our big players back.

[Musselbound]

I'm not for sacking the manager at the moment (and wasn't for sacking the last two either) but he really needs a win at the weekend or the calls for him to go will be deafening. Tonight was probably more about the performance than the result. Saturday will be different and a really high pressure game.

[LunasBoots]

Just stick with this formation Monty, no going back.

[AL-Qaholik]

We are 22 points behind Hearts. TWENTY TWO.
One plucky defeat does not a manager make.
He has a long way to go to convince me he's the right man for the job.
But, if he is here for a bit longer, I sincerely hope he makes me eat my words!

[neil7908]

He needs time but Saturday is massive. If we go out then it's a huge blow as 3rd is long gone and 4th looks tough.

He's show tonight though he can motivate the team, be flexible in how we line up, and the new players need more time to get up to speed.

[Unseen work]

We are 22 points behind Hearts. TWENTY TWO.
One plucky defeat does not a manager make.
He has a long way to go to convince me he's the right man for the job.
But, if he is here for a bit longer, I sincerely hope he makes me eat my words!

The fact we were above them in December when we were playing St Johnstone and they had Celtic makes it so much worse.

[Greensunshine]

Monty showed he has a bit of nouse playing 443 against them. Gives them less room in the midfield were they usually dominate.

Very unlucky not to take anything from the game but can’t fault effort or tactics tonight.

We badly need a win though. Apply ourselves in the remaining games like we did tonight and we’ll finish top six.
👍🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬

[Jim44]

Tonight’s performance gives us hope for the rest of the season and it looks like we have got enough in the tank to secure a safe mid-table position. Whether that will be good enough for Monty’s survival is another story, but I am not so nervous about our prospects.

[Tyler Durden]

It’s almost like changing from his ridiculous system that he employed was a good idea.. imagine that?

That being said, it’s one game. Play like that every week and we’ll be fine. I can’t say I’m confident of that. I’m not even confident he’ll not go back to his failed system.

I’m starting to wonder if the players asked for the formation change in this meeting at the weekend 🤷🏼

Surely has to stick with it now

[GreenCastle]

Amazed it’s taken us this long to actually realise a 3 in midfield suits us more.

If he doesn’t beat ICT questions should be asked again ?

If he does win - the games after that..Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts will probably define him.

Not making the top 6 is still a total failure. We currently 10 points behind Killie and 9 behind Dundee!

22 behind Hearts which is a shambles and unacceptable- that gap could easily get worse also.

Still lots of work to do to convince me we are on the right track.

[One Day Soon]

He could, and should, have been using that shape for months. Players were much more comfortable and we looked a real threat. His stubbornness has cost us a lot to this point.

Let’s see if we can maintain that level of performance - and most importantly - start winning again.

Only then can we say he gets more time. Ultimately we still lost tonight, regardless of the much improved performance.


This. All of this.

Monty must stay? Not so sure. He needs to start winning and the ball is in his court. So whether he gets to stay or not is down to him.

[The Modfather]

Amazed it’s taken us this long to actually realise a 3 in midfield suits us more.

If he doesn’t beat ICT questions should be asked again ?

If he does win - the games after that..Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts will probably define him.

Not making the top 6 is still a total failure. We currently 10 points behind Killie and 9 behind Dundee!

22 behind Hearts which is a shambles and unacceptable- that gap could easily get worse also.

Still lots of work to do to convince me we are on the right track.

It’s not just 3 in midfield IMO it’s who the 3 are. If he had played 3 all season from Newell, Levitt, Campbell & Jeggo I’d not have expected too much more from midfield than we’ve seen. Players like Moriah-Welsh look like they have everything we’ve been missing for years and buck the trend by making the midfield more than the sum of its parts. Amos looks the same in that regard from the fleeting glimpses we’ve seen so far IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

Let’s not get carried away. It has taken him a ridiculous amount of time to play three in midfield. Amos and Moriah-Welsh look decent and Marcondes could make a midfield that can actually dominate the middle of the park.
His record is still awful and he has a lot of ground to make up. Tonight was better but it’s still a loss. And after Saturday it’s still just a small step.


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[GreenCastle]

It’s not just 3 in midfield IMO it’s who the 3 are. If he had played 3 all season from Newell, Levitt, Campbell & Jeggo I’d not have expected too much more from midfield than we’ve seen. Players like Moriah-Welsh look like they have everything we’ve been missing for years and buck the trend by making the midfield more than the sum of its parts. Amos looks the same in that regard from the fleeting glimpses we’ve seen so far IMO.

True.

Agree with other poster it’s annoying it’s taken us 4 months to get to this stage as Plan A was clearly not working.

[Unseen work]

I’m starting to wonder if the players asked for the formation change in this meeting at the weekend 🤷🏼

Surely has to stick with it now

Valid point tbf.

Wonder if the players were honest and said we just can’t do it.

Defending in a 442 is hard and trying to play out from the back in a 442 against a 451/433 is just as hard

[Unseen work]

Also how much better and more of a threat Youan looked in his best position of left of a front 3

[Broxburn Greens]

I was fuming on Saturday and really struggled to see a way back for him and I don’t think I was alone.

Tonight however has given the faint flame of hope but he needs to fan that flame now and we need to see more of tonight more often than not.

Himself and the players tonight have got him a bit of time but that flame could be quickly snuffed out if we lose our upcoming games.

Play against ICT, Aberdeen and Dundee the way we played tonight and we’ll be in the QF of the cup and chasing Killie and St. Mirren…

The manner in which we lost tonight was harsh and cruel but that’s football but those of us that watched that tonight after the humiliation of Saturday couldn’t fail to take heart from it.

I hope he gets it right from here.


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[Gorebridge Hibb]

Can't keep sacking managers.

I'm backing him. He will come good.

Totally agree 👍💚🥬

[K-Zazu]

Please just play 4-3-3 Monty

[B.H.F.C]

Tonight was a huge improvement.

Must win on Saturday. And I’d like us to win well to build a bit of confidence.

And then he has to get on a run in the league because it’s two months since we won a game.

Needs results now.

[Stevie Reid]

Let’s remember that his record is 5 wins and 7 defeats from 21 league games. 1.1 PPG and 1.05 GPG - extrapolate that over the course of a 38 game season and it’s awful.

2 points won from the last 21 available. We were one point behind Killie and Hearts when he took over.

Tonight may be a turning point, who knows. Given that it took him 24 games to work out that his preferred system doesn’t suit this squad, I remain unconvinced.

But let’s see what happens.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Totally agree ������

Even though we haven't won a league game since early December and the stadium was half empty for a big game this evening? Just can't keep sack managers so just keep because of that?

Unless there's a massive turn of improvement in the next month or so the club will have no option but to send the manager on his way. Not just 45 minutes in a game we ultimately lost on the back of Saturdays humiliation.

Lots of people get hounded upon for knee-jerk opinions when calling for the managers head although is been dreadful since the beginning, this thread is the definition of knee-jerk.

[Wheat Hound]

Tonight buys a little breathing space & time but he needs to get a similar performance and ultimately a win on Saturday followed by some wins in the league otherwise he won't deserve to stay in post.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We need to see more performances like that before he wins back my trust. It won’t happen overnight.

[VoltaireHibs]

A good win against ICT will go a long way to helping him. That's an important game for him now, momentum needs to be built.

[VoltaireHibs]

We need to see more performances like that before he wins back my trust. It won’t happen overnight.

I include a lot of the players in that too.

[skyehibee]

Has to keep that formation

[LewysGot2]

Has to keep that formation

Been a long time coming but delighted he finally got there

[jeffers]

Hopefully the penny has finally dropped for Monty and Sergio.

[Hibee Mac]

I find it very difficult to give praise to a manager for taking almost 6 months to do something every fan in the ground has been screaming for for months now.

That being said there is no question that was a very good performance, despite the result. First time in ages I can actually see progress.

We'll see what Monty does on Sat though, might well be back to normal.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

I include a lot of the players in that too.

True

[Keepthefaith]

I really don't think tonight was about the formation per se. Sure hell play 442 against other teams, but marcondes being out may have influenced things.

Tonight for me was about effort and application. It was about an attack minded style, especially second half. For those saying he'd lost the players, that he's bland etc etc tonight showed that very much not to be the case.

Our upcoming fixtures are tough, and need exactly the same effort. Moriah Welsh has made a big impact for me and was pivotal to our success. Again those doubting the recruitment team for buying a young lad needs to accept that McDermott and Co have done a great bit of business to get this lad in.

The future I believe is promising.

[Unseen work]

https://x.com/leonrousseau10/status/1733540163827982398?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

This is from 2 months ago.

We’ve gained 2 points since then and are now 22 points behind hearts.

Need more than a good performance against Celtic which ultimately ended in defeat.

[sauzee1989]

Just wish he would improve his vocabulary during interviews! Says ‘ I thought’ about twenty times!

[VoltaireHibs]

Just wish he would improve his vocabulary during interviews! Says ‘ I thought’ about twenty times!

What he actually says is 'I Fought'. Drives me nuts.

[B.H.F.C]

https://x.com/leonrousseau10/status/1733540163827982398?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

This is from 2 months ago.

We’ve gained 2 points since then and are now 22 points behind hearts.

Need more than a good performance against Celtic which ultimately ended in defeat.

Absolute madness. There have been a few shockers in the run (St Johnstone, Rangers, St Mirren). The other games we should have got more than we did and have been undone by some dreadful defending. Mistake costs us a point against Hearts, two dreadful goals against Motherwell, two dreadful goals against Kilmarnock. Even tonight, the defending leading up to the first penalty was dreadful leaving a player totally alone from a set piece. We just struggle with balls in to the box so much.

It’s been a shocking run but the difference in 7 games is crazy.

[WeeRussell]

Just wish he would improve his vocabulary during interviews! Says ‘ I thought’ about twenty times!

If this is our biggest complaint with the gaffer tonight then there has definitely been improvement 😁

[Hibee Mac]

https://x.com/leonrousseau10/status/1733540163827982398?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

This is from 2 months ago.

We’ve gained 2 points since then and are now 22 points behind hearts.

Need more than a good performance against Celtic which ultimately ended in defeat.I've never known such a big swing in such a short space of time. Absolutely mental, season has gone from very interesting to over in that period of time

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[Hermit Crab]

We need time. We need players to show what they did tonight.


Defeat on Saturday puts him right back in the Eartha Kitt I'm afraid.

[tamig]

I've never known such a big swing in such a short space of time. Absolutely mental, season has gone from very interesting to over in that period of time

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Far from over. Not a chance its over.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Monty showed he has a bit of nouse playing 443 against them. Gives them less room in the midfield were they usually dominate.

Aye, that extra man makes a fair difference. 😉

[HoboHarry]

Monty showed he has a bit of nouse playing 443 against them. Gives them less room in the midfield were they usually dominate.

Very unlucky not to take anything from the game but can’t fault effort or tactics tonight.

We badly need a win though. Apply ourselves in the remaining games like we did tonight and we’ll finish top six.
👍🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬
That formation is foolproof as long as we don't get a referee who can count.

[houstonhibbee]

I’m starting to wonder if the players asked for the formation change in this meeting at the weekend 🤷🏼

Surely has to stick with it now


And Levitt pleaded to play in a more advanced position.....

[houstonhibbee]

That formation is foolproof as long as we don't get a referee who can count.


:wink:

[CallumHibs07]

another loss against a brutal Celtic most teams are taking points from. well done everyone, monty must stay!

[HoboHarry]

another loss against a brutal Celtic most teams are taking points from. well done everyone, monty must stay!
:blah:

[Since452]

That effort should be a pre requisite for every game. It's been missing for months. Remember we all patted ourselves on the back when Maloney got a draw against Hearts at ER. Last nights effort won't count for anything if we don't beat ICT and start picking up points in the league. More of the same please Montgomery.

Twice we've raised our game against Celtic at ER under him. Let's do it in every game.

[J-C]

Tonight was a start, we need to see more than 1 game with that amount of commitment from the players, a return to the weak gutless stuff will see him gone and more like last night will give him some time.

[Winston Ingram]

1st decent performance in 25 games.

Finally plays square pegs in square holes and we produce a performance.

I’m no convinced by him in the slightest but let’s not forget his utter stupidity and stubbornness has cost us £8m+ in European money and possibly a place in the top 6.

The encouraging thing was that with Marcondes injured, I thoroughly expected him to go back to that absolutely ridiculous 442 nonsense he’s inflicted on us.

I find those suggesting he’s a good manager quite amusing as he’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort since he’s been here.

We’ll see what happens next. If he sticks with formation, we may salvage something out of this car crash of a season he has inflicted on us.

[mcohibs]

1st decent performance in 25 games.

Finally plays square pegs in round holes and we produce a performance.

I’m no convinced by him in the slightest but let’s not forget his utter stupidity and stubbornness has cost us £8m+ in European money and possibly a place in the top 6.

The encouraging thing was that with Marcondes injured, I thoroughly expected him to go back to that absolutely ridiculous 442 nonsense he’s inflicted on us.

I find those suggesting he’s a good manager quite amusing as he’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort since he’s been here.

We’ll see what happens next. If he sticks with formation, we may salvage something out of this car crash of a season he has inflicted on us.

Can we stop with the 442 patter? Hibs haven’t played that formation for quite some time. It’s become a lazy stick to beat the manager with which is incorrect. Criticise team selection, style of play yes. But formation-wise we’ve no played 442 for ages.

[B.H.F.C]

Can talk formations all day long but we had players doing things last night that they simply haven’t been doing. The biggest difference in that was Moriah-Welsh and the rest followed his lead. Its ages since we’ve seen a midfielder as determined to win the ball.

Again, failure to deal with a simple ball in to the box costs us at the first penalty. It was just stood up to the back post and there was nobody near winning the first ball, same as for the corner 30’secomds earlier. Really don’t know what we can do to sort that out now.

[stantonhibby]

1st decent performance in 25 games.

Finally plays square pegs in round holes and we produce a performance.

I’m no convinced by him in the slightest but let’s not forget his utter stupidity and stubbornness has cost us £8m+ in European money and possibly a place in the top 6.

The encouraging thing was that with Marcondes injured, I thoroughly expected him to go back to that absolutely ridiculous 442 nonsense he’s inflicted on us.

I find those suggesting he’s a good manager quite amusing as he’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort since he’s been here.

We’ll see what happens next. If he sticks with formation, we may salvage something out of this car crash of a season he has inflicted on us.

Square pegs in square holes surely?

[Winston Ingram]

Can we stop with the 442 patter? Hibs haven’t played that formation for quite some time. It’s become a lazy stick to beat the manager with which is incorrect. Criticise team selection, style of play yes. But formation-wise we’ve no played 442 for ages.

I'm sorry but that's just utter nonsense. We last played it when we switched to in on Saturday when Le Fondre came on and stuck him at left midfield. Before that, we switched to it v Forfar with 35 minutes to go. Prior to that, it was Motherwell.

[Winston Ingram]

Square pegs in square holes surely?

Aye. Well spotted:greengrin

[Heisenberg]

Can talk formations all day long but we had players doing things last night that they simply haven’t been doing. The biggest difference in that was Moriah-Welsh and the rest followed his lead. Its ages since we’ve seen a midfielder as determined to win the ball.

Again, failure to deal with a simple ball in to the box costs us at the first penalty. It was just stood up to the back post and there was nobody near winning the first ball, same as for the corner 30’secomds earlier. Really don’t know what we can do to sort that out now.

Yep, we had players working hard for the team and showing a bit of fight and determination. The issue with defending crosses is really starting to become a worry though, every game we concede due to the same problem. Can’t see a clean sheet coming anytime soon.

[B.H.F.C]

Yep, we had players working hard for the team and showing a bit of fight and determination. The issue with defending crosses is really starting to become a worry though, every game we concede due to the same problem. Can’t see a clean sheet coming anytime soon.

It’s by far our biggest problem. Way more than style of play, formation etc (which has been a problem).

Conceded the penalty last night, penalty against St Mirren, two goals against St Mirren and two goals against Killie all from crosses in to the box with quite a number being set pieces. Go a bit further back and we lost goals against Motherwell from a throw in and a free kick in to the box where they won three headers on the trot. It doesn’t give us a chance.

[He's here!]

Defeat on Saturday puts him right back in the Eartha Kitt I'm afraid.

Yep. Hopefully that won't come to pass but it's a key test of whether he has any hope of turning things around.

We had a thread on here after the Luzern game which was along the lines of 'Let's get right behind Johnson'. That, at least, was on the back of a very good win. To suggest Monty's proved his detractors wrong with a narrow defeat against Celtic is jumping the gun.

[He's here!]

another loss against a brutal Celtic most teams are taking points from. well done everyone, monty must stay!

Hardly. They've lost two games all season.

We took a point from them last time at ER.

[He's here!]

Far from over. Not a chance its over.

We're nine points off fifth place, 10 behind Killie in fourth and Hearts have almost double our points tally in third. Considering we've won a mere six league games all season and there are only nine games left until the split are we really going to catch St Mirren or Killie?

We're in a battle just to get into the top six with Dundee, Motherwell, Aberdeen and St Johnstone.

[Carheenlea]

The team looked anything but a bottom six outfit last night.

I think a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that we know what kind of a team we can put out there with evidence from earlier in his tenure. The new additions coupled with a balanced and more natural looking line up for the personell at our disposal should augur well for the next stage of season.

Montgomery highlighted in his BBC interview last night that the need to show that desire and determination needs to be shown every time they pull on the shirts. Not just as a reaction to a poor performance or a game against the league leaders. We’ve seen how this isn’t always going to be the case but it’s a joint effort from management and players.

[Since452]

Yep. Hopefully that won't come to pass but it's a key test of whether he has any hope of turning things around.

We had a thread on here after the Luzern game which was along the lines of 'Let's get right behind Johnson'. That, at least, was on the back of a very good win. To suggest Monty's proved his detractors wrong with a narrow defeat against Celtic is jumping the gun.

A win against ICT is critical for him you feel. Win and folk will start to get behind him more. Lose and he's as good as gone.

[Centre Hawf]

In the same way getting pumped by them last night probably woudn't have changed much, getting narrowly beaten by them doesn't either. If we ***** the bed on Saturday he's still go to go for me. If we get through Saturday and he still fails to pick up points in the league games after he still has to go as well.

I've been following us long enough to know that a spirited loss against the Old Firm changes nothing.

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s not just 3 in midfield IMO it’s who the 3 are. If he had played 3 all season from Newell, Levitt, Campbell & Jeggo I’d not have expected too much more from midfield than we’ve seen. Players like Moriah-Welsh look like they have everything we’ve been missing for years and buck the trend by making the midfield more than the sum of its parts. Amos looks the same in that regard from the fleeting glimpses we’ve seen so far IMO.

Have to disagree a bit on that bit, but also agree too. :greengrin Of course having a 3 in there that are mobile and able to close down well, and also play a bit helps.

I also think even the infamous 3 of JDH Newell and Campbell would have been better than Newell and Levitt as a 2, as we've been so easy to get through and onto our shaky defence with just 2 in there.

I'm sure we would have picked up more points with a 3 in that midfield than we did, even that 3. :greengrin

[B.H.F.C]

I thought we played pretty well at Kilmarnock and were undone by two crap goals, as is standard. We created good chances, should have scored more and should have won. Same goes for last night as well.

The St Mirren game was as bad as anything I have ever seen but the performances either side have been decent and we should have had more points. I know it counts for little but if we can put in more performances like those two, I’d like to think results will improve.

[Forza Fred]

another loss against a brutal Celtic most teams are taking points from. well done everyone, monty must stay!

Wrong site mate!

[TheHibernator]

Well done for changing the formation tonight but it's taken him far too long. Dropped far too many points. Let's hope this is a turning point and he sticks with this formation going forward.

[Winston Ingram]

In the same way getting pumped by them last night probably woudn't have changed much, getting narrowly beaten by them doesn't either. If we ***** the bed on Saturday he's still go to go for me. If we get through Saturday and he still fails to pick up points in the league games after he still has to go as well.

I've been following us long enough to know that a spirited loss against the Old Firm changes nothing.

I'd still sack him now and I'm stunned he survived Saturday. Yesterday was his first impressive performance in 25 matches.

[Ronniekirk]

Monty showed he has a bit of nouse playing 443 against them. Gives them less room in the midfield were they usually dominate.

Very unlucky not to take anything from the game but can’t fault effort or tactics tonight.

We badly need a win though. Apply ourselves in the remaining games like we did tonight and we’ll finish top six.
����������������������

I wonder if the meeting on Monday with the players after that st Mirren debacle brought about this change
We are now nine points behind st Mirren who are fifth
So we really could do with a couple of back to back wins in the league Hiwever although I could of walked out at halftime v st Mirren I saw enough last night to suggest if they can repeat that level of performance results will come
But oh to have a forward that scores regularly The game was there for the winning last night
Celtic were very poor second half
Mikey Stewart was right though If Youan had shown the same desire to win a 50 50 ball the move that led to penalty doesn’t start Instead we could of been on a counter attack

[Winston Ingram]

I wonder if the meeting on Monday with the players after that st Mirren debacle brought about this change
We are now nine points behind st Mirren who are fifth
So we really could do with a couple of back to back wins in the league Hiwever although I could of walked out at halftime v st Mirren I saw enough last night to suggest if they can repeat that level of performance results will come
But oh to have a forward that scores regularly The game was there for the winning last night
Celtic were very poor second half
Mikey Stewart was right though If Youan had shown the same desire to win a 50 50 ball the move that led to penalty doesn’t start Instead we could of been on a counter attack

I saw a Whatsapp from very well-connected former player suggesting this was the case and the detail that was shared wasn't pretty.

[lyonhibs]

I saw a Whatsapp from very well-connected former player suggesting this was the case and the detail that was shared wasn't pretty.

Pray do tell for us mere mortals that aren't in the inner sanctum

[Winston Ingram]

Pray do tell for us mere mortals that aren't in the inner sanctum

It's already about 4th hand with me mentioning it and if I put the detail on here it'll soon become Hibs net fact when it may not be.

[Keith_M]

Well done for changing the formation tonight but it's taken him far too long. Dropped far too many points. Let's hope this is a turning point and he sticks with this formation going forward.


Have to agree with this. Also, persisting with a 16 year old when the poor lad was clearly struggling was total madness.

Yeah, we had a narrow defeat and a reasonable display last night but I'll wait to see if we really have turned a corner.

-----
Have a look at the league table and it's pretty damning.

27676

[jacomo]

He could, and should, have been using that shape for months. Players were much more comfortable and we looked a real threat. His stubbornness has cost us a lot to this point.

Let’s see if we can maintain that level of performance - and most importantly - start winning again.

Only then can we say he gets more time. Ultimately we still lost tonight, regardless of the much improved performance.


Stubbornness and arrogance are, in the right amounts, actually desirable qualities in pro sports. Otherwise known as self-belief.

He’s not the finished article but hopefully it now starts to come together.

[The Modfather]

Have to agree with this. Also, persisting with a 16 year old when the poor lad was clearly struggling was total madness.

Yeah, we had a narrow defeat and a reasonable display last night but I'll wait to see if we really have turned a corner.

-----
Have a look at the league table and it's pretty damning.

27676

He was only persisting with Whittaker out of necessity was he not? Other than the St Mirren game when his other option was Megwa. For all the talk of Whittaker, or “shoehorning youngsters” etc. Once we got Miller and a few other back/new signings the likes of Whittaker, Landers, Johnson etc are back in their age groups and not on the bench last night.

[Donegal Hibby]

I hope the manager turns things around and remains at us , theres been to much upheaval at the club now for quite some time when it comes to managers .

Though since he's came in his stubbornness not to change the team as cost us points and the football has been really poor, I don't think i remember once we've looked like giving anyone a doing .

Like our previous manager or any other Hibs manager for that matter wither I want him to stay or not depends on if we make the top 6 or not , not making the top 6 would be an absolute disaster considering our squad and how much investment there's been made in it and that will be down to the manager.

I am in the Monty must stay camp though Monty must start picking up results and quick. Hopefully with him changing the team he's finely becoming abit more flexible with team selections and we will start to improve.
One can only hope 👍

[Carheenlea]

I know a lot of fans will feel that Saturday is the first “Must Win” game of Montgomery’s tenure, and anything other than a win should result in managerial change.

On the evidence of last night, we have the makings of a pretty decent side who given time, should have the tools to build up some momentum and get our points tally and hopefully league position to something a bit more respectable.

The Cup throws up all sorts of surprise results, and we saw more than just ourselves struggle to see off “lesser” opposition in last round.
Inverness away won’t be easy and the nature of the cup could throw up an uncomfortable afternoon. I think we’ll win, but if we didn’t, I’d hope we don’t press the panic button.

Let’s see this one through with Montgomery and ride it out regardless of outcome in the Highlands.

[H18 SFR]

I know a lot of fans will feel that Saturday is the first “Must Win” game of Montgomery’s tenure, and anything other than a win should result in managerial change.

On the evidence of last night, we have the makings of a pretty decent side who given time, should have the tools to build up some momentum and get our points tally and hopefully league position to something a bit more respectable.

The Cup throws up all sorts of surprise results, and we saw more than just ourselves struggle to see off “lesser” opposition in last round.
Inverness away won’t be easy and the nature of the cup could throw up an uncomfortable afternoon. I think we’ll win, but if we didn’t, I’d hope we don’t press the panic button.

Let’s see this one through with Montgomery and ride it out regardless of outcome in the Highlands.

First paragraph - I totally agree and personally feel there is a must win feel to it.

Second paragraph - I totally agree, however I can see the inner Monty coming to the fore and him ditching 4-3-3. Time after time he shared his views and commitment to 4-4-2. I can just see it happening.

I think Saturday is going to be a tough day but regardless of 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, we surely win.

[easty]

I know a lot of fans will feel that Saturday is the first “Must Win” game of Montgomery’s tenure, and anything other than a win should result in managerial change.

On the evidence of last night, we have the makings of a pretty decent side who given time, should have the tools to build up some momentum and get our points tally and hopefully league position to something a bit more respectable.

The Cup throws up all sorts of surprise results, and we saw more than just ourselves struggle to see off “lesser” opposition in last round.
Inverness away won’t be easy and the nature of the cup could throw up an uncomfortable afternoon. I think we’ll win, but if we didn’t, I’d hope we don’t press the panic button.

Let’s see this one through with Montgomery and ride it out regardless of outcome in the Highlands.

If we don’t win (I think we will), then I hope he’s sacked before the bus gets back to Edinburgh.

[Alex Trager]

Have to agree with this. Also, persisting with a 16 year old when the poor lad was clearly struggling was total madness.

Yeah, we had a narrow defeat and a reasonable display last night but I'll wait to see if we really have turned a corner.

-----
Have a look at the league table and it's pretty damning.

27676

Did he have any option but to play Whit?

Folk are pointing to the change in formation whilst ignoring the right side went from a 16YO RB and Jair to Miller and Boyle last night.

[WhileTheChief..]

If we don’t win (I think we will), then I hope he’s sacked before the bus gets back to Edinburgh.

I wanted him gone after the St M game and was thinking he'll definitely be away if we lose to ICT.

I then thought his interview after the Celtic game was terrible and that he looks completely lost, but I also now think we'll stick with him like we did with LJ into the new season.

Having calmed down after Saturday, I'm not too fussed whether he stays or goes. I'm more interested to see how the squad looks after the summer.

[Joe6-2]

If we don’t win (I think we will), then I hope he’s sacked before the bus gets back to Edinburgh.

We can’t play as we did last night then revert back, pure suicide

[Paulie Walnuts]

If we don’t win (I think we will), then I hope he’s sacked before the bus gets back to Edinburgh.

:agree:

And he could have no complaints.

[Bakerman]

I know a lot of fans will feel that Saturday is the first “Must Win” game of Montgomery’s tenure, and anything other than a win should result in managerial change.

On the evidence of last night, we have the makings of a pretty decent side who given time, should have the tools to build up some momentum and get our points tally and hopefully league position to something a bit more respectable.

The Cup throws up all sorts of surprise results, and we saw more than just ourselves struggle to see off “lesser” opposition in last round.
Inverness away won’t be easy and the nature of the cup could throw up an uncomfortable afternoon. I think we’ll win, but if we didn’t, I’d hope we don’t press the panic button.

Let’s see this one through with Montgomery and ride it out regardless of outcome in the Highlands.

I agree with this. Montgomery deserves a longer period of time. We saw a different team last night. One that had fight, determination, tempo, and a desire to rise above the (deserved) criticism. We've all seen Hibs teams in the past that were simply woeful, that didn't have the skill or talent to improve on dire runs of defeats and mediocrity.

They turned up last night, and played as a unit, with belief and an edge. Maybe behind the scenes, there was leadership booting ***** into gear. Instilling it into them, that it was imperative for them and the club that they do so. If so it worked a treat, and showed green shoots.

Beating Inverness will galvanise the support. Giving hope that last night wasn't just a flash in the pan, but a glimpse of the future, under Montgomery.

We live in hope.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree with this. Montgomery deserves a longer period of time. We saw a different team last night. One that had fight, determination, tempo, and a desire to rise above the (deserved) criticism. We've all seen Hibs teams in the past that were simply woeful, that didn't have the skill or talent to improve on dire runs of defeats and mediocrity.

They turned up last night, and played as a unit, with belief and an edge. Maybe behind the scenes, there was leadership booting ***** into gear. Instilling it into them, that it was imperative for them and the club that they do so. If so it worked a treat, and showed green shoots.

Beating Inverness will galvanise the support. Giving hope that last night wasn't just a flash in the pan, but a glimpse of the future, under Montgomery.

We live in hope.

I’m not so sure a win on Saturday will galvanise the support. There is a hell of a lot of apathy and it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than that. Needs to start somewhere though. We deserved more last night but, ultimately, it was another defeat and the results really need to start coming quickly and consistently between now and the end of the season.

[easty]

I agree with this. Montgomery deserves a longer period of time. We saw a different team last night. One that had fight, determination, tempo, and a desire to rise above the (deserved) criticism. We've all seen Hibs teams in the past that were simply woeful, that didn't have the skill or talent to improve on dire runs of defeats and mediocrity.

They turned up last night, and played as a unit, with belief and an edge. Maybe behind the scenes, there was leadership booting ***** into gear. Instilling it into them, that it was imperative for them and the club that they do so. If so it worked a treat, and showed green shoots.

Beating Inverness will galvanise the support. Giving hope that last night wasn't just a flash in the pan, but a glimpse of the future, under Montgomery.

We live in hope.

Last night was one game. He doesn’t get a clean slate because of a good performance in a game that we still lost, we’ve been absolutely ***** for months under him.

I’m hoping for a continuation of last nights effort and performance, but it’s definitely more in hope than expectation, given his management of Hibs up to this point.

[easty]

I’m not so sure a win on Saturday will galvanise the support. There is a hell of a lot of apathy and it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than that. Needs to start somewhere though. We deserved more last night but, ultimately, it was another defeat and the results really need to start coming quickly and consistently between now and the end of the season.

Hibs fans will be expecting a win this weekend. I’m not too concerned about it being good to watch. An away cup game is usually a hard fought game, but we have to be winning.

It’s the next few games where Montgomery needs performances. The Hearts game (if he’s still in charge) will be massive.

[One Day Soon]

The only way he deserves to keep his job is if we play like we did in the second half last night in every match from now on and start winning regularly. He's out of second chances, he used them all up prior to last night.

Either the first six months were all leading up to this and we're now turning a corner, or last night was a one-off. I know which one I fear it is but let's see.

[Unseen work]

Saturday for me is obviously a must win.

But even if he does I would say Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts needs to be about 7 points for him to have any hope.

I don’t think some realise just how awful our form is.

To be this far behind hearts is mental, never mind the fact we were above them in mid December.

[IanM]

Montydog will be fine

[B.H.F.C]

Saturday for me is obviously a must win.

But even if he does I would say Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts needs to be about 7 points for him to have any hope.

I don’t think some realise just how awful our form is.

To be this far behind hearts is mental, never mind the fact we were above them in mid December.

It’s been a dreadful couple of months. To go from being ahead of Hearts to 22 points behind them over the course of 7 games is incredible though. You couldn’t make it up, our worst run of form in a long time coinciding with their best.

[Kato]

Last night was one game. He doesn’t get a clean slate because of a good performance in a game that we still lost, we’ve been absolutely ***** for months under him.

I’m hoping for a continuation of last nights effort and performance, but it’s definitely more in hope than expectation, given his management of Hibs up to this point.Everybody has their own slate.

Some have even got their own jury which they send in and out depending on that weeks' results. Must be a busy hoose on a Saturday.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

I saw a Whatsapp from very well-connected former player suggesting this was the case and the detail that was shared wasn't pretty.
Well if true at least he listened and changed things and clearly the players responded Judg need to get them playing like that in every game

[Keepthefaith]

We can’t play as we did last night then revert back, pure suicide

its a bit odd to think that the performance last night was down to a change of shape - far too simplistic. if the players had shown even half the effort in applying themselves on Saturday then we wouldn't have been subbed. equally you need to take into account the personnel. Mariah welsh was outstanding and Miller / Boyle combination much stronger. Obita and Levitt looked different players and that wasn't about shape.

I've no problem with him reverting back, so long as the players apply themselves in a similar way commitment wise.

[Unseen work]

It’s been a dreadful couple of months. To go from being ahead of Hearts to 22 points behind them over the course of 7 games is incredible though. You couldn’t make it up, our worst run of form in a long time coinciding with their best.

Yep, the thought of taking only 2 points from St Johnston, Hearts, Motherwell,Rangers, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and Celtic is mental.

On paper (I know) you’d be hopeful of around 12/13 points from them.

Especially with Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers, St Mirren and Celtic all being at home

[Centre Hawf]

Yep, the thought of taking only 2 points from St Johnston, Hearts, Motherwell,Rangers, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and Celtic is mental.

On paper (I know) you’d be hopeful of around 12/13 points from them.

Especially with Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers, St Mirren and Celtic all being at home

The run we've had has forced us to now expect points in the next run of games before we next face an ugly sister come the end of March -

Aberdeen
Dundee
Hearts
Ross County
Ross County
Livingston

Out of they 18 available points I think you need to pick up 12 to realistically have a chance of doing anything for the rest of this season such as pushing for a European spot, even the top 6 ambitions would take a real dent if we were to go lose to Dundee and Aberdeen I think.

But it would be near unforgivable to go through the final 3 of they games without taking 7 or 9 points. I wont even bother souring the mood by talking about the state we'd be in if we lost the County double header.

[Stevie Reid]

Stubbornness and arrogance are, in the right amounts, actually desirable qualities in pro sports. Otherwise known as self-belief.

He’s not the finished article but hopefully it now starts to come together.

I’d say learning from your mistakes is a much more valuable trait. Hopefully NM has now, but it took way too long.

Plenty of arrogant folk in the world, who are full of self belief, but have little or no talent.

[HoboHarry]

Well if true at least he listened and changed things and clearly the players responded Judg need to get them playing like that in every game
Posters seem to be assuming that NM was on the receiving end - I'd bet money he was flinging a few grenades himself. He doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet.

[JimBHibees]

Posters seem to be assuming that NM was on the receiving end - I'd bet money he was flinging a few grenades himself. He doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet.

Absolutely a tough wee guy from Leeds

[WeeRussell]

Posters seem to be assuming that NM was on the receiving end - I'd bet money he was flinging a few grenades himself. He doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet.

Exactly. I’m struggling to imagine a realistic scenario where players have went radge at the manager shouting “don’t play 442” and he’s therefore decided to change formation for the next game.

[Keith_M]

Did he have any option but to play Whit?

Folk are pointing to the change in formation whilst ignoring the right side went from a 16YO RB and Jair to Miller and Boyle last night.


Fair enough, I suppose he had few other options.

[HoboHarry]

Exactly. I’m struggling to imagine a realistic scenario where players have went radge at the manager shouting “don’t play 442” and he’s therefore decided to change formation for the next game.
Exactly, any manager who buckled like that wouldn't last a week. I suspect NM is a wee bit stronger than some on here wish he was.

[WhileTheChief..]

Exactly, any manager who buckled like that wouldn't last a week. I suspect NM is a wee bit stronger than some on here wish he was.

You think some people would rather he was weak??

Bizarre take on things. I think everyone on here wants to see NM and Hibs do well.

[Unseen work]

The run we've had has forced us to now expect points in the next run of games before we next face an ugly sister come the end of March -

Aberdeen
Dundee
Hearts
Ross County
Ross County
Livingston

Out of they 18 available points I think you need to pick up 12 to realistically have a chance of doing anything for the rest of this season such as pushing for a European spot, even the top 6 ambitions would take a real dent if we were to go lose to Dundee and Aberdeen I think.

But it would be near unforgivable to go through the final 3 of they games without taking 7 or 9 points. I wont even bother souring the mood by talking about the state we'd be in if we lost the County double header.

100%

Unfortunately for Montgomery he’s made it difficult for himself considering the Hearts game is away and is a must not lose. Aberdeen away is always difficult never mind the fact they’ve just got a new manager and will likely have a bounce.

But we absolutely need to beat Livi, Ross County twice and Dundee, a draw against Aberdeen and hearts would in total be respectable and enough to win over a large section of the support again

Will it happen? Let’s see if we beat Livi first

[Hibeesdaft16]

You think some people would rather he was weak??

Bizarre take on things. I think everyone on here wants to see NM and Hibs do well.

Just an excuse to rip other posters as per. I'm sure you have noticed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

100%

Unfortunately for Montgomery he’s made it difficult for himself considering the Hearts game is away and is a must not lose. Aberdeen away is always difficult never mind the fact they’ve just got a new manager and will likely have a bounce.

But we absolutely need to beat Livi, Ross County twice and Dundee, a draw against Aberdeen and hearts would in total be respectable and enough to win over a large section of the support again

Will it happen? Let’s see if we beat Livi first

Think Hearts away is one where we have to accept they’re absolute lightyears ahead of us. If we get beat, so be it, as long as it’s not embarrassing.

The others though, there can be no excuses. He needs at least 3 wins and 2 draws from the other 5 imo.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Exactly. I’m struggling to imagine a realistic scenario where players have went radge at the manager shouting “don’t play 442” and he’s therefore decided to change formation for the next game.

Really?

If the players aren’t comfortable playing his system, which it’s been suggested they don’t feel like they are, and results and performances would definitely suggest they’re not, then im not sure its that outlandish that a bit of a crisis meeting has lead to players and management deciding a change of approach was needed.

The idea it’s ‘buckling’ or ‘weak’ as was suggested in a subsequent post to yours is miles off the mark imo.

[Bakerman]

Think Hearts away is one where we have to accept they’re absolute lightyears ahead of us. If we get beat, so be it, as long as it’s not embarrassing.

The others though, there can be no excuses. He needs at least 3 wins and 2 draws from the other 5 imo.

I don't think Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. If it hadn't been for Shankland's goals, they would be struggling, and naebadges sacked by now.

[Bakerman]

Exactly. I’m struggling to imagine a realistic scenario where players have went radge at the manager shouting “don’t play 442” and he’s therefore decided to change formation for the next game.

Seems very unlikely. Probably a controlled, frank exchange of views, and a boot up the erchie for those who weren't pulling their weight. All good.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't think Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. If it hadn't been for Shankland's goals, they would be struggling, and naebadges sacked by now.

They’ve got nearly double our points total. To put it into perspective, they pick up 1.85 points for every 1 we pick up. Last season Celtic picked up 1.9 points for every 1 of ours and Rangers picked up 1.77 points for every 1 we picked up and nobody would ever dream of suggesting either of them weren’t lightyears ahead of us last season.

You’re maybe right about Shankland. They do have him though and he forms a massive part of their team. If you just remove all the best bits of any team then of course they’ll get worse.

[jacomo]

I don't think Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. If it hadn't been for Shankland's goals, they would be struggling, and naebadges sacked by now.


This played out in the last derby… if anything we were marginally the better side but a Rocky mistake and a Shankland finish decided it in their favour.

[Donegal Hibby]

Think Hearts away is one where we have to accept they’re absolute lightyears ahead of us. If we get beat, so be it, as long as it’s not embarrassing.

The others though, there can be no excuses. He needs at least 3 wins and 2 draws from the other 5 imo.

I don't think they are absolutely lightyears ahead of us , more than matched them in the last derby which we were extremely lucky not to get at least a point in .

[Since452]

I don't think they are absolutely lightyears ahead of us , more than matched them in the last derby which we were extremely lucky not to get at least a point in .

To be fair we more than matched Celtic on Wednesday too. Doesn't mean we're anywhere near as good as them. Hearts are 22 points ahead of us because they're a much better team. It hurts but they are.

[Bakerman]

This played out in the last derby… if anything we were marginally the better side but a Rocky mistake and a Shankland finish decided it in their favour.

He has definitely been the singular difference between Hearts success or failure this season. Without him they would have struggled massively, their fans up in arms and naebadges either under severe pressure or replaced. They have a fair amount of dross on their books. They'll be looking to shift a few on in the summer too, just like us.

[WhileTheChief..]

Just an excuse to rip other posters as per. I'm sure you have noticed.

Yup, it's on a lot threads.

We all want what's best for Hibs. Some folk think NM is the man, others would rather someone else. Not really that big a deal.

[Donegal Hibby]

To be fair we more than matched Celtic on Wednesday too. Doesn't mean we're anywhere near as good as them. Hearts are 22 points ahead of us because they're a much better team. It hurts but they are.

Celtic financially are on a different planet to us who are able to spend 5 , 6 million or more on one player , hertz and Aberdeen are not . Hertz have a big lead on us because they've grinded out more results and in some cases rode there luck while we have been on a terrible run though as to them being lightyears ahead of us like they are Celtic is nonsense imo.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Celtic financially are on a different planet to us who are able to spend 5 , 6 million or more on one player , hertz and Aberdeen are not . Hertz have a big lead on us because they've grinded out more results and in some cases rode there luck while we have been on a terrible run though as to them being lightyears ahead of us like they are Celtic is nonsense imo.

The reasons you’ve given for them having a big lead are the reason they’re lightyears ahead of us. They win loads of games, we win very few.

Grinding out results etc is part of being a good team. You don’t get 2/3rds of the way through a season with nearly the double the points total and a +21 goal difference of another side because you’re not actually much better and you’ve just rode your luck a bit.

[Stevie Reid]

The reasons you’ve given for them having a big lead are the reason they’re lightyears ahead of us. They win loads of games, we win very few.

Grinding out results etc is part of being a good team. You don’t get 2/3rds of the way through a season with nearly the double the points total and a +21 goal difference of another side because you’re not actually much better and you’ve just rode your luck a bit.

Yep. In all of my years on this board, there has unfortunately been a fair amount of that time where Hearts have been better than us.

Anytime that is the case you get a bunch of posters telling you that they wouldn’t take any of their players, they’re crap/they’re cloggers/we wouldn’t want to play like them, and that they’re just lucky. A lot of the same things are said about McInnes’ Aberdeen team on here too. It’s all very juvenile tbh (see also: the Graeme Shinnie thread).

The most obvious answer is that they have better players in key areas, and are better managed. They also play in such a manner that allows them to be competitive in every type of game that the league throws up - from facing relegation strugglers to the OF.

Any team finishing third in this league needs to be able to grind out wins and pick up points when they’re not playing well. And a healthy dose of pragmatism is required when facing up to about 50% of the teams in the league.

So many fans don’t understand that, which is why some of the guys who have finished 3rd in this league most recently - Ross, Neilson, McInnes - are just labelled my many as dour and negative.

It’s pretty shameful how far ahead Hearts are above us now, but that’s the reality.

[Donegal Hibby]

The reasons you’ve given for them having a big lead are the reason they’re lightyears ahead of us. They win loads of games, we win very few.

Grinding out results etc is part of being a good team. You don’t get 2/3rds of the way through a season with nearly the double the points total and a +21 goal difference of another side because you’re not actually much better and you’ve just rode your luck a bit.

I totally disagree with your wording of they are " lightyears " ahead of us , yes they've been better and more consistent and been lucky too this season though i don't believe theres to much difference between the teams quality wise .

If you had said the old firm are lightyears ahead of us I'd agree though not hertz or Aberdeen .

What I would say is they are probably getting run better than us in they have a settled squad and there recruitment doesn't go chasing after the next wonder kid the way ours has been doing .

Along with the folly deal and the announcement of massive losses I think we are getting badly run imo and there's to much uncertainty on and off the park . Personally I've lost abit of faith in the people running our club tbh .

Next year again we will have another major rebuilding job to do to the team between players out of contract and a lot of loan deals coming to a end while across the road probably won't have the same upheaval as we will have once again.

Things can change quickly in football though especially when teams are on a par . I don't honestly for a minute think hertz are lightyears ahead of us though maybe that's just me that thinks that though.👍

[The Modfather]

I totally disagree with your wording of they are " lightyears " ahead of us , yes they've been better and more consistent and been lucky too this season though i don't believe theres to much difference between the teams quality wise .

If you had said the old firm are lightyears ahead of us I'd agree though not hertz or Aberdeen .

What I would say is they are probably getting run better than us in they have a settled squad and there recruitment doesn't go chasing after the next wonder kid the way ours has been doing .

Along with the folly deal and the announcement of massive losses I think we are getting badly run imo and there's to much uncertainty on and off the park . Personally I've lost abit of faith in the people running our club tbh .

Next year again we will have another major rebuilding job to do to the team between players out of contract and a lot of loan deals coming to a end while across the road probably won't have the same upheaval as we will have once again.

Things can change quickly in football though especially when teams are on a par . I don't honestly for a minute think hertz are lightyears ahead of us though maybe that's just me that thinks that though.👍

They have finished 3rd, 4th and running away with 3rd since they came back up. During that period we have been 8th, 5th and wherever we end up this season. Light years is just terminology, but we have a long way to go to match them on the park next season and a further way to go to match them over more than individual seasons.

[Sparrows tongue]

Good stuff again today, Monty, :thumbsup:

[Since452]

Massive win for him today. Defeat would probably have seen him away. Hopefully this is the start of things changing.

[Stevie Reid]

Can’t argue with that result. Hopefully some momentum building at a key stage in the season.

[Centre Hawf]

A solid professional win (admittedly only listened on the radio). Need to go and build on this now and win some points on the table and we'll be happy.

[Northernhibee]

Very impressive to turn Monday into a positive - very way for that to lead to a spiral out of control.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I totally disagree with your wording of they are " lightyears " ahead of us , yes they've been better and more consistent and been lucky too this season though i don't believe theres to much difference between the teams quality wise .

If you had said the old firm are lightyears ahead of us I'd agree though not hertz or Aberdeen .

What I would say is they are probably getting run better than us in they have a settled squad and there recruitment doesn't go chasing after the next wonder kid the way ours has been doing .

Along with the folly deal and the announcement of massive losses I think we are getting badly run imo and there's to much uncertainty on and off the park . Personally I've lost abit of faith in the people running our club tbh .

Next year again we will have another major rebuilding job to do to the team between players out of contract and a lot of loan deals coming to a end while across the road probably won't have the same upheaval as we will have once again.

Things can change quickly in football though especially when teams are on a par . I don't honestly for a minute think hertz are lightyears ahead of us though maybe that's just me that thinks that though.👍

Again though, you’re essentially arguing that if you remove all the parts they’re doing better than us that they’re not much better. It’s daft. You’re even arguing that despite the fact we’ll have all the upheaval that it’s to our benefit (or at least I presume that’s what you’re arguing based on the rest of your arguments? :confused:)

You don’t gather double the points and end up 21 goals better off by luck.
They’re absolutely miles ahead of us.

I didnt see the game today. Beating a team like Inverness should be a given though. The proof will be in the games against teams at our level.

[Gordy M]

Again though, you’re essentially arguing that if you remove all the parts they’re doing better than us that they’re not much better. It’s daft. You’re even arguing that despite the fact we’ll have all the upheaval that it’s to our benefit (or at least I presume that’s what you’re arguing based on the rest of your arguments? :confused:)

You don’t gather double the points and end up 21 goals better off by luck.
They’re absolutely miles ahead of us.

I didnt see the game today. Beating a team like Inverness should be a given though. The proof will be in the games against teams at our level.

Dont remember you posting that we were better than Hearts in December when we were above them? Hearts have done what Aberdeen did last year, won several games in a row whilst others dropped points. Aberdeen werent light years ahead of us, and neither are Hearts.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Dont remember you posting that we were better than Hearts in December when we were above them? Hearts have done what Aberdeen did last year, won several games in a row whilst others dropped points. Aberdeen werent light years ahead of us, and neither are Hearts.

Do you not remember that, no? What were we ahead of hearts? 1 week? A point? That might explain why.

Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. Literally every statistical measure shows that.

Folk get themselves all antsy at the thought of it but the forum is a much better place for people able to take a realistic view of things than it is for people claiming there’s not much between teams despite the fact they’re almost taking double the points as us over two thirds of the season. It pretty much makes any debate on here pointless if folk are going to argue a standpoint that has absolutely no basis to it short of the fantasy world of ‘if Hearts didn’t have all the best parts of their team then they would be crap’.

[Tambo]

A couple of adjustments and looked like two acceptable performances with one unlucky to leave the game empty handed.

Some good challenges coming up to see if we can continue.

[Gordy M]

Do you not remember that, no? What were we ahead of hearts? 1 week? A point? That might explain why.

Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. Literally every statistical measure shows that.

Folk get themselves all antsy at the thought of it but the forum is a much better place for people able to take a realistic view of things than it is for people claiming there’s not much between teams despite the fact they’re almost taking double the points as us over two thirds of the season. It pretty much makes any debate on here pointless if folk are going to argue a standpoint that has absolutely no basis to it short of the fantasy world of ‘if Hearts didn’t have all the best parts of their team then they would be crap’.
If you cant see why a team who were behind us 2 months ago are not "light years" ahead of us now, then yes you are right, no point in discussing it at all. Are they better than us at the moment, yes.....light years is a ridiculous term and you know it......

[Centre Hawf]

Hearts having Shankland banging goals in obviously will help massively, but then so to do Aberdeen have Miovski and they've been worse than us for large spells this season, although I'm not certain they'll be as bad this half of the season. The point is Hearts are clearly doing something better than us outside of having a prolific goal scorer, conceding nearly 20 goals less than us is a start for example.

Off the park though I think we're still massively playing catch up and we've been getting it wrong time and time again the last 3/4 years and the people who make the decisions at the club need to start getting more of them right than they currently are or else the gap will only grow larger unfortunately.

[IberianHibernian]

Do you not remember that, no? What were we ahead of hearts? 1 week? A point? That might explain why.

Hearts are lightyears ahead of us. Literally every statistical measure shows that.

Folk get themselves all antsy at the thought of it but the forum is a much better place for people able to take a realistic view of things than it is for people claiming there’s not much between teams despite the fact they’re almost taking double the points as us over two thirds of the season. It pretty much makes any debate on here pointless if folk are going to argue a standpoint that has absolutely no basis to it short of the fantasy world of ‘if Hearts didn’t have all the best parts of their team then they would be crap’.Think folk are questioning use of " light years ahead " less than 2 months after teams met in a terrible match in which both teams were terrible but we were slightly less terrible . More importantly , we`ve signed half a team and are gradually getting internationalists and injured players who have been missing while we`ve been a bad run back . In the league we could still finish anywhere from 4th to 11th but with 4 league games for new and injured players to pick up form before the quarter finals we could still fancy our chances in most possible quarter final draws .

[B.H.F.C]

If you cant see why a team who were behind us 2 months ago are not "light years" ahead of us now, then yes you are right, no point in discussing it at all. Are they better than us at the moment, yes.....light years is a ridiculous term and you know it......

We’ve had a shocking run over 7 games, our worst run in years. That’s coincided with them having their best run in years, over 8 games.

It’s all happened Over a really short period of time. Unfortunately, as we saw with Aberdeen last season when they made up 15 points or something on Hearts, that’s all it takes to get you where you need to be in this league, one really good run.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If you cant see why a team who were behind us 2 months ago are not "light years" ahead of us now, then yes you are right, no point in discussing it at all. Are they better than us at the moment, yes.....light years is a ridiculous term and you know it......

Your argument is based on a position from months ago whilst my argument is based on our current positions.

If you can’t see why our current position is more relevant at this point in time than our position 2 months ago then yes, I’m absolutely right. I’ve given statistical evidence for why it’s not a ridiculous term. They’re significantly further ahead of us in terms of PPG than rangers ended up ahead of us last year. It does nobody any favours to blindly argue something that’s blatantly obvious.

[Since452]

It's pretty hard to argue that a team 22 points above us in the league in February aren't "light years" ahead of us. It's not a couple of points. Shankland is a major reason but he's part of their team and they're playing to his strengths. Hopefully by the end of the season the gap is closer as it's embarrassing at the minute. Hopefully we've turned a bit of a corner.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hearts having Shankland banging goals in obviously will help massively, but then so to do Aberdeen have Miovski and they've been worse than us for large spells this season, although I'm not certain they'll be as bad this half of the season. The point is Hearts are clearly doing something better than us outside of having a prolific goal scorer, conceding nearly 20 goals less than us is a start for example.

Off the park though I think we're still massively playing catch up and we've been getting it wrong time and time again the last 3/4 years and the people who make the decisions at the club need to start getting more of them right than they currently are or else the gap will only grow larger unfortunately.
:agree:
I don’t know what the current figure is but in the not too distant past, a media outlet suggested Shankland had been responsible for 7 points that Hearts picked up.

Considering they’re 22 ahead of us it kind of flies in the face of the idea that he’s the sole difference.

[Bakerman]

Your argument is based on a position from months ago whilst my argument is based on our current positions.

If you can’t see why our current position is more relevant at this point in time than our position 2 months ago then yes, I’m absolutely right. I’ve given statistical evidence for why it’s not a ridiculous term. They’re further ahead of us in terms of PPG than rangers ended up ahead of us last year. It does nobody any favours to blindly argue something that’s blatantly obvious.

They are totally dependent on Anderson's millions. If not for his 'philanthropy' they would be in the doo dahs again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They are totally dependent on Anderson's millions. If not for his 'philanthropy' they would be in the doo dahs again.

Again though, they get his millions. Any arguments about ‘if they didn’t get Anderson’s millions’ or ‘if they didn’t get fan donations’ or ‘if they didn’t have Shanklands goals’ are irrelevant. Because they have all those things.

[Bakerman]

It's pretty hard to argue that a team 22 points above us in the league in February aren't "light years" ahead of us. It's not a couple of points. Shankland is a major reason but he's part of their team and they're playing to his strengths. Hopefully by the end of the season the gap is closer as it's embarrassing at the minute. Hopefully we've turned a bit of a corner.

Embarrassing was the Hearts fans wearing Russian Fur Hats, and pretending Romanov wasn't a money launderer. That was truly embarrassing.

[B.H.F.C]

:agree:
I don’t know what the current figure is but in the not too distant past, a media outlet suggested Shankland had been responsible for 7 points that Hearts picked up.

Considering they’re 22 ahead of us it kind of flies in the face of the idea that he’s the sole difference.

He’s no the sole difference, a reasonably competent defence helps. But he’s scored over half their league goals. He’s been worth more than 7 points to them.

[Bakerman]

Again though, they get his millions. Any arguments about ‘if they didn’t get Anderson’s millions’ or ‘if they didn’t get fan donations’ or ‘if they didn’t have Shanklands goals’ are irrelevant. Because they have all those things.

Still not won the League Diddy Cup for over 60 years though. :greengrin

[007]

He’s no the sole difference, a reasonably competent defence helps. But he’s scored over half their league goals. He’s been worth more than 7 points to them.

It's 17 points now but it's a nonsense stat anyway because if he hadn't been in the team we've no idea how well whoever would have been in instead would have done.

[Itsnoteasy]

Embarrassing was the Hearts fans wearing Russian Fur Hats, and pretending Romanov wasn't a money launderer. That was truly embarrassing.

What did Duff & Gray do with Hibs money, were they not embarrassing?

[Bakerman]

What did Duff & Gray do with Hibs money, were they not embarrassing?

What on earth have they got to do with my calling out Romanov, Hearts supporters wearing Russian Hats, and criminal money laundry?

This is a Hibs supporters website, no? Dearie me.

[Big90inOz]

What did Duff & Gray do with Hibs money, were they not embarrassing?

Didn't know Duff however from ppl who knew him he was in it for the right reason, Gray was definately in it for the right reason as he was a friend of my old man. Their problem was being conned by Rowland.

[judas]

They are totally dependent on Anderson's millions. If not for his 'philanthropy' they would be in the doo dahs again.

They aren’t though. They also have a large inflow of cash via their fan membership scheme (or whatever it’s called), bigger crowds and other revenue streams.

Hearts are a bigger club than us. That’s a fact. For some reason some of us can’t accept that and we become all upset about the idea as if it should somehow affect our love of our own club.

But the fact that they do better than us because they are bigger with more resources, has to be considered.

[Murphys Touch]

So is Minty staying?

[007]

They aren’t though. They also have a large inflow of cash from via their fan membership scheme (or whatever it’s called), bigger crowds and other revenue streams.

Hearts are a bigger club than us. That’s a fact. For some reason some of us can’t accept that and we become all upset about the idea as if it should somehow affect our love of our own club.

But the fact that they do better than us because they are bigger with more resources, has to be considered.

Judas!

[Brightside]

Another thread ruined by people more concerned about Hearts.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Another thread ruined by people more concerned about Hearts.

They are our main rivals and measuring stick. The performance of the team and manager will always be judged at how we are doing in comparison to them. If we were miles ahead of them and the manager was getting everyone gushing over him because of that I'm sure you would be happy to bring them into it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Dont remember you posting that we were better than Hearts in December when we were above them? Hearts have done what Aberdeen did last year, won several games in a row whilst others dropped points. Aberdeen werent light years ahead of us, and neither are Hearts.

:faf: Are you serious?!!

You're upset that someone is pointing out Hearts are better than us this season when It's staring us all in the face?!

[Gordy M]

:faf: Are you serious?!!

You're upset that someone is pointing out Hearts are better than us this season when It's staring us all in the face?!

Nope, i posted that they were better than us, they are not "light years" ahead though. Or did you not read that bit......No surprise you are on backing up posters who like to critisize hibs.......its your thing. Crack on.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Nope, i posted that they were better than us, they are not "light years" ahead though. Or did you not read that bit......No surprise you are on backing up posters who like to critisize hibs.......its your thing. Crack on.

They are 22 points ahead of us mate. Look up lightyears in the dictionary and it would probably have a picture of the table. Baffling anyone can dispute this.

[Jim44]

I think a good gauge of the present gap between them and us is the decrease in their interest in us. In a normal year, when the gap is not so blatant, the Jambo acquaintances I come into contact with are very vocal and scathing of us. At the moment, hardly a word is uttered and, to me, speaks volumes.

[Keith_M]

I'm confused... is the question now about whether Monty should be the new Hearts manager?


:dunno:

[Hibeesdaft16]

I'm confused... is the question now about whether Monty should be the new Hearts manager?


:dunno:


No it's mainly about should a manager so far behind them early February still be in charge of us.

[Is It On....]

Didn't know Duff however from ppl who knew him he was in it for the right reason, Gray was definately in it for the right reason as he was a friend of my old man. Their problem was being conned by Rowland.

Buying pubs in Swindon wasn't a great idea though.

[flash]

No it's mainly about should a manager so far behind them early February still be in charge of us.

Are you inferring that he shouldn't be?

[Hibeesdaft16]

Are you inferring that he shouldn't be?

Unless he turns the season around pronto then no. Bottom six and worried about who will win between Dundee and St Johnstone is simply not good enough.

[Forza Fred]

Another thread ruined by people more concerned about Hearts.

The place is infested with them

[flash]

Unless he turns the season around pronto then no. Bottom six and worried about who will win between Dundee and St Johnstone is simply not good enough.

Right you are. Will let you get on with it.

[Northernhibee]

No it's mainly about should a manager so far behind them early February still be in charge of us.

Look at the start to our league season, getting pumped off of all and sundry. Some of the decisions we’ve had to make in terms of who starts and some of our weakest benches we’ve had in years and years - Rome wasn’t built in a day.

We’ve had a few youngsters make their debut, made the semi final of the League Cup and are one game away from Hampden in the other.


There’s been a mid season slump in form but there are signs that’s being turned around.


It would be madness to even think about a change of manager right now.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Right you are. Will let you get on with it.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but fair play.

[Centre Hawf]

Look at the start to our league season, getting pumped off of all and sundry. Some of the decisions we’ve had to make in terms of who starts and some of our weakest benches we’ve had in years and years - Rome wasn’t built in a day.

We’ve had a few youngsters make their debut, made the semi final of the League Cup and are one game away from Hampden in the other.


There’s been a mid season slump in form but there are signs that’s being turned around.


It would be madness to even think about a change of manager right now.

There is a more than realistic chance we could be 10th come 5pm next Saturday with a double header coming up against the team in 11th soon. If we get ourselves into that position I'm no so sure I'd fancy the current gaffer to manage those games.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Look at the start to our league season, getting pumped off of all and sundry. Some of the decisions we’ve had to make in terms of who starts and some of our weakest benches we’ve had in years and years - Rome wasn’t built in a day.

We’ve had a few youngsters make their debut, made the semi final of the League Cup and are one game away from Hampden in the other.


There’s been a mid season slump in form but there are signs that’s being turned around.


It would be madness to even think about a change of manager right now.

We are still getting pumped off all and sundry, nothing has changed?

A mid season slump? We haven't won a league game in over two months. There has been signs in 45 minutes against a team in our league that we ultimately lost to. We should just forget the shambles the week before because of that?

It would be madness to keep a manager just because when overall there's been literally no improvement. If there's improvement in terms of league position in the next month then perhaps stick with him, if not and top six is in complete danger he should be gone.

[Hibeesdaft16]

There is a more than realistic chance we could be 10th come 5pm next Saturday with a double header coming up against the team in 11th soon. If we get ourselves into that position I'm no so sure I'd fancy the current gaffer to manage those games.


People are clutching, I understand that. But the reality is different.

[Centre Hawf]

People are clutching, I understand that. But the reality is different.

I don't think it's clutching when we've been in free fall points wise for 2 months straight. If we don't get our act together pronto in the league then making top 6 is the least of our worries.

[Hibeesdaft16]

I don't think it's clutching when we've been in free fall points wise for 2 months straight. If we don't get our act together pronto in the league then making top 6 is the least of our worries.

No I agree with you and I was meaning the opposite way.

[Centre Hawf]

No I agree with you and I was meaning the opposite way.

Apologies. Misread the post.

[flash]

People are clutching, I understand that. But the reality is different.

Nobody is "clutching". They are using their eyes to see that the team looks much improved now we are getting new players back along with bedding in the new signings.

To suggest otherwise reeks of mischief making in my opinion.

[Kato]

Buying pubs in Swindon wasn't a great idea though.Rowland tacked the pubs onto the deal. It wasn't a choice made by Duff/Gray.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibeesdaft16]

Nobody is "clutching". They are using their eyes to see that the team looks much improved now we are getting new players back along with bedding in the new signings.

To suggest otherwise reeks of mischief making in my opinion.

The team looked much improved v Celtc after we scored and confidence grew. I completely agree with that. It's clutching to suggest the manager now must stay on the back of that though.

Why would I want to mischief make? I want the best Hibernian as possible, not stuck in 7th in the league hoping we can kick on from a performance we ultimately lost in.

There was signs the new signings made the team improved in our latter European games too under Johnson, that was ultimately clutching at straws was it not?

[Hibeesdaft16]

Apologies. Misread the post.

No bother buddy. :aok:

[Centre Hawf]

Nobody is "clutching". They are using their eyes to see that the team looks much improved now we are getting new players back along with bedding in the new signings.

To suggest otherwise reeks of mischief making in my opinion.

I don't think it's mischief making to still be dubious on how we are as a side after one horrendous 90 minutes against St Mirren, a spirited 45/60 against Celtic and beating quite a poor Scottish Championship side.

Next Saturday is still a huge test for NM and anything but a win will only allow these feelings to fester.

[Keith_M]

No it's mainly about should a manager so far behind them early February still be in charge of us.


I wasn't being serious, honest

😁

[Hibeesdaft16]

I wasn't being serious, honest

😁



:greengrin sorry mate.

[Keith_M]

:greengrin sorry mate.


Don't worry about it, it's an emotive subject

😬

[Donegal Hibby]

Next Saturday is still a huge test for NM and anything but a win will only allow these feelings to fester.

Would a draw away to Aberdeen not be acceptable like?

[hibeerealist]

They are our main rivals and measuring stick. The performance of the team and manager will always be judged at how we are doing in comparison to them. If we were miles ahead of them and the manager was getting everyone gushing over him because of that I'm sure you would be happy to bring them into it.

Reverse the current league positions and derby record and the pink bus shelter is empty! They win nowt but better us in the derbies then the cants are more than happy.

[Centre Hawf]

Would a draw away to Aberdeen not be acceptable like?

In my mind potentially not. Fail to win next week and we’re 8 league games without a win. You can of course choose to look at it up to the derby and say he needs 6/7 points from 9.

We need to start winning games of league football. Drawing games and writing them off as “tough places to go” won’t fly anymore if we want to achieve something this season.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Reverse the current league positions and derby record and the pink bus shelter is empty! They win nowt but better us in the derbies then the cants are more than happy.


So would we be :confused:

[Hibeesdaft16]

In my mind potentially not. Fail to win next week and we’re 8 league games without a win. You can of course choose to look at it up to the derby and say he needs 6/7 points from 9.

We need to start winning games of league football. Drawing games and writing them off as “tough places to go” won’t fly anymore if we want to achieve something this season.

:agree:

[B.H.F.C]

In my mind potentially not. Fail to win next week and we’re 8 league games without a win. You can of course choose to look at it up to the derby and say he needs 6/7 points from 9.

We need to start winning games of league football. Drawing games and writing them off as “tough places to go” won’t fly anymore if we want to achieve something this season.

We absolutely need to start winning. Really to do anything, we probably need to be winning at least half a dozen games between now and the split. Folk will say that’s unlikely given that’s all we’ve won all season but I’m hopeful with the games we’ve got, the change of shape, and the new players settling we can pick up a decent number of points.

It’s never been brilliant at any point this season but, really, it’s went totally downwards over the course of the last 7 games. Just looking at the squad yesterday and it’s transformed to what we were looking at a couple of weeks ago when you add in the returning and new players. That’s got to offer some hope.

[Alex Trager]

In my mind potentially not. Fail to win next week and we’re 8 league games without a win. You can of course choose to look at it up to the derby and say he needs 6/7 points from 9.

We need to start winning games of league football. Drawing games and writing them off as “tough places to go” won’t fly anymore if we want to achieve something this season.
Sadly I agree.

We’ve blown a lot of chances to be ‘lesser’ teams recently.

The team are looking better though so here’s hoping we’re down the road with 3 points next week.

It IS a difficult place for Hibs historically though, so a draw would be reasonable.

[J-C]

Amazing the amount of brand new members causing friction and creating arguments with trolling posts, aye Hibs fans right enough. :confused:

[Hibeesdaft16]

Amazing the amount of brand new members causing friction and creating arguments with trolling posts, aye Hibs fans right enough. :confused:


There's been nothing trolling about any of my posts.

You are insinuating new posters are trolling and questioning if they are Hibs fans. The very definition of trolling. All because you don't agree with anyone that doesn't pretend everything is great.

[VoltaireHibs]

Sadly I agree.

We’ve blown a lot of chances to be ‘lesser’ teams recently.

The team are looking better though so here’s hoping we’re down the road with 3 points next week.

It IS a difficult place for Hibs historically though, so a draw would be reasonable.


David Gray made it look pretty simple. Tough gig, Warnock has another week to drill them. It will be hard fought, that's for sure.

[Since452]

Would a draw away to Aberdeen not be acceptable like?

They are one of the few teams struggling as much as we are so it presents a great opportunity for a win. With them having a new manager and getting a bit of a lift, I wouldn't be disappointed with a draw.

[VoltaireHibs]

There's been nothing trolling about any of my posts.

You are insinuating new posters are trolling and questioning if they are Hibs fans. The very definition of trolling. All because you don't agree with anyone that doesn't pretend everything is great.


I don't doubt you're a Hibby, and I see where you're coming from, but there are a lot of posters on here that set targets for managers mainly so they can further their anti management agenda when they fail to reach them. When posters say 'anything less than a win at Aberdeen and blah blah blah' is really just lining their ducks up.

I'm hot and cold on Monty, but I want to give him a bit of time with the new players, players returning from abroad and injury, see if he, and the much increased competition for places, can build something from the rubble of the current season. I also think it's important for any club to have a bit of unity between the support and the team, and the constant bickering about NM (and I'm as guilty as anyone at times), doesn't help that at all.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't doubt you're a Hibby, and I see where you're coming from, but there are a lot of posters on here that set targets for managers mainly so they can further their anti management agenda when they fail to reach them. When posters say 'anything less than a win at Aberdeen and blah blah blah' is really just lining their ducks up.

I'm hot and cold on Monty, but I want to give him a bit of time with the new players, players returning from abroad and injury, see if he, and the much increased competition for places, can build something from the rubble of the current season. I also think it's important for any club to have a bit of unity between the support and the team, and the constant bickering about NM (and I'm as guilty as anyone at times), doesn't help that at all.

In normal circumstances a draw away to Aberdeen would be fine. In normal circumstances, a draw away to near enough anyone in the league is fine.

When you take the team on a run like we’re on though then draws to teams beneath you stop being fine imo. We’ve 9 games pre split and I’d argue on a game by game basis, Aberdeen away, Hearts away, RC away, Rangers away and Motherwell away would all be acceptable draws but because of the run we’ve been on we’ve left ourselves needing more than that. We need to start winning games. People aren’t setting these targets because they want the manager to fail. They’re setting them because we need to win these games to have any chance of a decent season, that’s down to the manager.

[B.H.F.C]

David Gray made it look pretty simple. Tough gig, Warnock has another week to drill them. It will be hard fought, that's for sure.

They have a game this Wednesday so he’ll no get that much time with them on the training pitch. They were meant to have been really poor against Bonnyrigg yesterday although you never know how much they did, or didn’t, put in to the game.

We need to go up there next week and get a result. More minutes in to some of the new players yesterday, Boyle back and looking dangerous, and another week of getting them up to speed. This is a huge game for Montgomery, and us.

[Johnny_Leith]

In normal circumstances a draw away to Aberdeen would be fine. In normal circumstances, a draw away to near enough anyone in the league is fine.

When you take the team on a run like we’re on though then draws to teams beneath you stop being fine imo. We’ve 9 games pre split and I’d argue on a game by game basis, Aberdeen away, Hearts away, RC away, Rangers away and Motherwell away would all be acceptable draws but because of the run we’ve been on we’ve left ourselves needing more than that. We need to start winning games. People aren’t setting these targets because they want the manager to fail. They’re setting them because we need to win these games to have any chance of a decent season, that’s down to the manager.

Agreed. Naming games as must wins and setting targets such as getting past forfar and Inverness aren't posters (myself included) as building an agenda against Montgomery, it's calling it as we see it. If he's winning games he'll get praise, if he's not and we're left mulling around somewhere between 7th and 10th there will rightly be discontent because it's not been good enough.

[Donegal Hibby]

Out of our next 6 games I'd take a draw against Aberdeen and hertz away right now . That still leaves us Dundee( H) , Ross county (H & A ) and livvy at (H ) which are four winnable games. Don't think Aberdeen is a must win for the manager at all , would be nice if we did though.

[ChilliEater]

Agreed. Naming games as must wins and setting targets such as getting past forfar and Inverness aren't posters (myself included) as building an agenda against Montgomery, it's calling it as we see it. If he's winning games he'll get praise, if he's not and we're left mulling around somewhere between 7th and 10th there will rightly be discontent because it's not been good enough.
Do you not think, though, that we've been disappointing for a few seasons now and we need a bit of an overhaul? A rethink on the squad, the style of play, the culture at the club, and whatever else might have contributed to that underachievement? Even if Montgomery is the best person to oversee that, and I'm not saying that he is, don't you think we might have to suffer some short term pain to see long term gain? On paper he definitely had a squad that should have done better, but he was missing senior players through long term injury (Cadden, JDH, McKirdy, Campbell etc), senior squad players out on loan (Melkerson, Henderson), promising youngsters on loan (Megwa, Aitken, O'Connor), senior players on international duty (Boyle, Miller, Rocky) leaving him with a thin squad forcing him to play fringe players. I'm not sure Hanlon is ever 100 percent fit, Levitt had an injury early, Stevenson is well into the veteran stage, Boyle pre Asian cup was returning from long term injury - the list goes on. Barring an horrific injury/suspension crisis, we will only get any idea if we're heading in the right direction in the next few months to the end of this season. Add to that - we're not in a position to attract a manager who is the finished article. Our best hope is spotting them early on their way up. He ticks all the boxes and this last month or so has been the first glitch in his coaching career. I think he's entitled to get the chance to work through it and learn from it to become a better manager.

[Hibeesdaft16]

I don't doubt you're a Hibby, and I see where you're coming from, but there are a lot of posters on here that set targets for managers mainly so they can further their anti management agenda when they fail to reach them. When posters say 'anything less than a win at Aberdeen and blah blah blah' is really just lining their ducks up.

I'm hot and cold on Monty, but I want to give him a bit of time with the new players, players returning from abroad and injury, see if he, and the much increased competition for places, can build something from the rubble of the current season. I also think it's important for any club to have a bit of unity between the support and the team, and the constant bickering about NM (and I'm as guilty as anyone at times), doesn't help that at all.

Thanks, there's nothing worse than being called one of them or whatever.

I haven't said anything but a win in Aberdeen but I do think that we need to win to have much of a chance of having European football next season. Also the fact we haven't won in the league since early December makes it imperative we start winning soon. Dundee at home will be tough enough and that is a must win, without the added pressure that would be on us if we fail to pick up three points next week against a rotten Aberdeen side lower in the table than us.

I would love Monty to work out, and winning games of football is what will make the relationship work out. But it has to happen in the league very, very soon. I also agree with unity in the support, but that's a two way street and calling anyone's Hibs credentials who doesn't think the manager will work out based on what the results have been so far is a lot more damaging at fracturing the support than sharing a difference of opinion. Check the clown on the other thread giving me abuse for example.

[Johnny_Leith]

Do you not think, though, that we've been disappointing for a few seasons now and we need a bit of an overhaul? A rethink on the squad, the style of play, the culture at the club, and whatever else might have contributed to that underachievement? Even if Montgomery is the best person to oversee that, and I'm not saying that he is, don't you think we might have to suffer some short term pain to see long term gain? On paper he definitely had a squad that should have done better, but he was missing senior players through long term injury (Cadden, JDH, McKirdy, Campbell etc), senior squad players out on loan (Melkerson, Henderson), promising youngsters on loan (Megwa, Aitken, O'Connor), senior players on international duty (Boyle, Miller, Rocky) leaving him with a thin squad forcing him to play fringe players. I'm not sure Hanlon is ever 100 percent fit, Levitt had an injury early, Stevenson is well into the veteran stage, Boyle pre Asian cup was returning from long term injury - the list goes on. Barring an horrific injury/suspension crisis, we will only get any idea if we're heading in the right direction in the next few months to the end of this season. Add to that - we're not in a position to attract a manager who is the finished article. Our best hope is spotting them early on their way up. He ticks all the boxes and this last month or so has been the first glitch in his coaching career. I think he's entitled to get the chance to work through it and learn from it to become a better manager.

Pre Foley investment I didn't feel we needed an overhaul, we challenged for third last year and, in my eyes, were unfortunate not to get it, the squad has talent and is suited to a different style and formation to the one Montgomery was playing. I'm glad the last two games have been better, despite losing one of them but that doesn't detract that we should have changed formation much earlier.

Every team in the league goes through periods of having players unavailable, hell we challenged for third last season with Boyle only fit for two months. Yes that should be considered, but St Mirren spanked us as ER recently and a lot was made about us missing players due to international duty but nothing was said about the buddies missing their best two midfielders and right back via the same.

I do somewhat agree that we are in a position where might find success by appointing a manager that is at the earlier stages of his career might pay dividends. We're looking for a Mowbray rather than a Maloney. I think the red flags around Montgomery are all things that Hibs fans and Scottish football fans and pundits have been very quick to point out. Thankfully he seems to be learning. I am not in the Montgomery out camp, but I don't think his reign has been without mistakes and I believe he should have gotten us better results, especially being flexible to see games out in which we've dropped points.

My hope is that he'll continue to learn, at a quicker pace, and we can have a strong end to the season like we did last year. It's up to Montgomery to show he's the man to get the summer because, whether he's here or now, I think we will see a big turnover due to thr increase in resources.

[He's here!]

Thanks, there's nothing worse than being called one of them or whatever.

I haven't said anything but a win in Aberdeen but I do think that we need to win to have much of a chance of having European football next season. Also the fact we haven't won in the league since early December makes it imperative we start winning soon. Dundee at home will be tough enough and that is a must win, without the added pressure that would be on us if we fail to pick up three points next week against a rotten Aberdeen side lower in the table than us.

I would love Monty to work out, and winning games of football is what will make the relationship work out. But it has to happen in the league very, very soon. I also agree with unity in the support, but that's a two way street and calling anyone's Hibs credentials who doesn't think the manager will work out based on what the results have been so far is a lot more damaging at fracturing the support than sharing a difference of opinion. Check the clown on the other thread giving me abuse for example.

There will be no 'added pressure' if we don't win at Pittodrie. It's a tough game and a draw would be fine.

Personally I'm just looking for signs that we're going to be stronger going forward than we have been until now. The signs against Celtic and Inverness have been good following the St Mirren debacle. Maintain that form and we'll be OK.

[Hibeesdaft16]

There will be no 'added pressure' if we don't win at Pittodrie. It's a tough game and a draw would be fine.

Personally I'm just looking for signs that we're going to be stronger going forward than we have been until now. The signs against Celtic and Inverness have been good following the St Mirren debacle. Maintain that form and we'll be OK.

There will be added pressure to win our home game against Dundee before the derby 100% if we don't win on Saturday considering Dundee are three points ahead of us already.

So you are happy finishing bottom 6 this season as long as there are signs we are improving? Then it comes to the end of the season and a few of the loans leave and we need to start again? What is ok for you? Because bottom 6 with the budget and the players we have would be nothing but total failure for our club.

[VoltaireHibs]

Do you not think, though, that we've been disappointing for a few seasons now and we need a bit of an overhaul? A rethink on the squad, the style of play, the culture at the club, and whatever else might have contributed to that underachievement? Even if Montgomery is the best person to oversee that, and I'm not saying that he is, don't you think we might have to suffer some short term pain to see long term gain? On paper he definitely had a squad that should have done better, but he was missing senior players through long term injury (Cadden, JDH, McKirdy, Campbell etc), senior squad players out on loan (Melkerson, Henderson), promising youngsters on loan (Megwa, Aitken, O'Connor), senior players on international duty (Boyle, Miller, Rocky) leaving him with a thin squad forcing him to play fringe players. I'm not sure Hanlon is ever 100 percent fit, Levitt had an injury early, Stevenson is well into the veteran stage, Boyle pre Asian cup was returning from long term injury - the list goes on. Barring an horrific injury/suspension crisis, we will only get any idea if we're heading in the right direction in the next few months to the end of this season. Add to that - we're not in a position to attract a manager who is the finished article. Our best hope is spotting them early on their way up. He ticks all the boxes and this last month or so has been the first glitch in his coaching career. I think he's entitled to get the chance to work through it and learn from it to become a better manager.


Really well thought out post. Agree entirely. Unless the results are horrendous then I'd give NM until the end of the season.

[VoltaireHibs]

Thanks, there's nothing worse than being called one of them or whatever.

I haven't said anything but a win in Aberdeen but I do think that we need to win to have much of a chance of having European football next season. Also the fact we haven't won in the league since early December makes it imperative we start winning soon. Dundee at home will be tough enough and that is a must win, without the added pressure that would be on us if we fail to pick up three points next week against a rotten Aberdeen side lower in the table than us.

I would love Monty to work out, and winning games of football is what will make the relationship work out. But it has to happen in the league very, very soon. I also agree with unity in the support, but that's a two way street and calling anyone's Hibs credentials who doesn't think the manager will work out based on what the results have been so far is a lot more damaging at fracturing the support than sharing a difference of opinion. Check the clown on the other thread giving me abuse for example.

As much as European football is welcome, if we have a big turnover of players in the summer then it may be a big distraction. I'd love it if we qualified, but can see the upside if we fail.

[Iain G]

There will be added pressure to win our home game against Dundee before the derby 100% if we don't win on Saturday considering Dundee are three points ahead of us already.

So you are happy finishing bottom 6 this season as long as there are signs we are improving? Then it comes to the end of the season and a few of the loans leave and we need to start again? What is ok for you? Because bottom 6 with the budget and the players we have would be nothing but total failure for our club.

It wouldn't be total failure, it wouldn't be a great season but if, as you say, we improve, new players bed in, we play better at pace more energy football and our new signings give us a better place to build on for next year, then I would take that. Laying down actual strong foundations for next year wouldn't be a bad thing. And this summer is always going to be a great chance to reshape the team and squad, which is a major positive.

However I still think we will finish top 6 and at least get to the semi finals 😁

[HoboHarry]

It wouldn't be total failure, it wouldn't be a great season but if, as you say, we improve, new players bed in, we play better at pace more energy football and our new signings give us a better place to build on for next year, then I would take that. Laying down actual strong foundations for next year wouldn't be a bad thing. And this summer is always going to be a great chance to reshape the team and squad, which is a major positive.

However I still think we will finish top 6 and at least get to the semi finals 😁
Correct, correct and 1000 times correct. I've said it before, a house gets built from the foundation upwards and not the roof downwards.

[Iain G]

Correct, correct and 1000 times correct. I've said it before, a house gets built from the foundation upwards and not the roof downwards.

25-ish years in the construction industry and I had kinda noticed this 😁🤣

[Paulie Walnuts]

It wouldn't be total failure, it wouldn't be a great season but if, as you say, we improve, new players bed in, we play better at pace more energy football and our new signings give us a better place to build on for next year, then I would take that. Laying down actual strong foundations for next year wouldn't be a bad thing. And this summer is always going to be a great chance to reshape the team and squad, which is a major positive.

However I still think we will finish top 6 and at least get to the semi finals 😁

Finishing bottom 6 is a total failure imo.

[Hibs4185]

25-ish years in the construction industry and I had kinda noticed this 😁🤣

Aye but who checks the foundations to make sure it’s a solid base to build from?

[MKHIBEE]

25-ish years in the construction industry and I had kinda noticed this 😁🤣

You obviously didn’t work for the guy who built my house.

[Iain G]

Finishing bottom 6 is a total failure imo.

So what happened if we do? Sack the manager and roll the dice again? Or stick with the current plan and try to develop and build it up? One step back this season to go several steps forward would not be a failure for me, as long as there are good solid signs of improvement in player and style over the rest of the season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So what happened if we do? Sack the manager and roll the dice again? Or stick with the current plan and try to develop and build it up? One step back this season to go several steps forward would not be a failure for me, as long as there are good solid signs of improvement in player and style over the rest of the season.

Yes. That’s exactly what we should do imo. He’ll have been in charge for 4 games short of a full season. If we end up bottom 6 then he should be gone. Trying to build up his current plan that’s seen us finish bottom 6 (if that comes to pass) isn’t a plan I’d want to see built up.

Keep in mind that finishing bottom 6 will likely mean more of the same crap we’ve been subjected to. So bottom 6 but clear signs of progression can’t really go together. If we end up bottom 6 then there’ll have been no clear signs of progress. If we show clear signs of progression then we’ll likely be top 6.

[Wilson]

Yes. That’s exactly what we should do imo. He’ll have been in charge for 4 games short of a full season. If we end up bottom 6 then he should be gone. Trying to build up his current plan that’s seen us finish bottom 6 (if that comes to pass) isn’t a plan I’d want to see built up.

Keep in mind that finishing bottom 6 will likely mean more of the same crap we’ve been subjected to. So bottom 6 but clear signs of progression can’t really go together. If we end up bottom 6 then there’ll have been no clear signs of progress. If we show clear signs of progression then we’ll likely be top 6.

The form we were in bottom six was a certainty and the manager was unlikely to survive. If we see the kind of results that secure bottom six I don't he'll survive that either. It's all very well trying to be pragmatic regarding table positions now. It is how the fanbase reacts during the grind that will count.

I'm hoping that encouraging recent displays are the start of something. A few positive results and we'll be targeting fourth rather than worrying about bottom six.

[Iain G]

Aye but who checks the foundations to make sure it’s a solid base to build from?

Usually the structural engineer, or at least some fresh out of uni graduate who doesn't know the difference between concrete and steel 😁

[Billy Whizz]

The form we were in bottom six was a certainty and the manager was unlikely to survive. If we see the kind of results that secure bottom six I don't he'll survive that either. It's all very well trying to be pragmatic regarding table positions now. It is how the fanbase reacts during the grind that will count.

I'm hoping that encouraging recent displays are the start of something. A few positive results and we'll be targeting fourth rather than worrying about bottom six.

3 massive games this month, 2 against the teams who we are fighting for a Top 6 spot, and of course the derby at Tynie

[JimBHibees]

3 massive games this month, 2 against the teams who we are fighting for a Top 6 spot, and of course the derby at Tynie

Yep need to be coming out on the right side of they games.

[Northernhibee]

Yes. That’s exactly what we should do imo. He’ll have been in charge for 4 games short of a full season. If we end up bottom 6 then he should be gone. Trying to build up his current plan that’s seen us finish bottom 6 (if that comes to pass) isn’t a plan I’d want to see built up.

Keep in mind that finishing bottom 6 will likely mean more of the same crap we’ve been subjected to. So bottom 6 but clear signs of progression can’t really go together. If we end up bottom 6 then there’ll have been no clear signs of progress. If we show clear signs of progression then we’ll likely be top 6.

Very harsh. He was given a mess of a squad with a weak spine, from which we lost three key players for a few weeks leaving us with a sixteen year old at right back and next to no options off the bench.


You can point to a fifth placed finish last season but Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, Motherwell, and Dundee United all had bad enough runs to sack their manager, fifth wasn’t exactly any great shakes at all. We also lost Nisbet, big Myko, Egan Riley from that team too.


IMO the squad we’ve had recently was easily relegation quality, but with better midfielders and extra depth my expectations are going up the way from what we get here.


The damage was done in the summer by not strengthening the spine of the team sufficiently then sacking LJ after it was too late to change the squad.

[andyf5]

Finishing bottom 6 is a total failure imo.
100% agree. But if our form continues to improve I would be open to keeping Monty. Can't keep changing manager.

[The Modfather]

Very harsh. He was given a mess of a squad with a weak spine, from which we lost three key players for a few weeks leaving us with a sixteen year old at right back and next to no options off the bench.


You can point to a fifth placed finish last season but Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, Motherwell, and Dundee United all had bad enough runs to sack their manager, fifth wasn’t exactly any great shakes at all. We also lost Nisbet, big Myko, Egan Riley from that team too.


IMO the squad we’ve had recently was easily relegation quality, but with better midfielders and extra depth my expectations are going up the way from what we get here.


The damage was done in the summer by not strengthening the spine of the team sufficiently then sacking LJ after it was too late to change the squad.

This is close to where I am. If things don’t improve, or post January signings we’ve given ourselves too much to do to make the top 6, I’d not make a strong case for keeping Montgomery, but I’d also not be calling for his head given what he inherited.

The team picked itself over December & January, it was just a few games back we rested 1 or 2 players and had to name a team with a spine of Hanlon, Newell & Dodge. With Stevenson and the only available RB in Whittaker also playing.

Our team in that 2 month period was essentially (and if it was in the fabled 433):

Marshall

Whittaker
Fish
Hanlon
Obita

Jeggo
Newell
Levitt

Youan
Vente
Tavares

With the bench being either Stevenson & Doidge or kids. I’d not expect many managers to get much out of that.

[Johnny_Leith]

Very harsh. He was given a mess of a squad with a weak spine, from which we lost three key players for a few weeks leaving us with a sixteen year old at right back and next to no options off the bench.


You can point to a fifth placed finish last season but Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, Motherwell, and Dundee United all had bad enough runs to sack their manager, fifth wasn’t exactly any great shakes at all. We also lost Nisbet, big Myko, Egan Riley from that team too.


IMO the squad we’ve had recently was easily relegation quality, but with better midfielders and extra depth my expectations are going up the way from what we get here.


The damage was done in the summer by not strengthening the spine of the team sufficiently then sacking LJ after it was too late to change the squad.

If our recent squads were relegation quality then we would have been relegated, not finishing top 6.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Very harsh. He was given a mess of a squad with a weak spine, from which we lost three key players for a few weeks leaving us with a sixteen year old at right back and next to no options off the bench.


You can point to a fifth placed finish last season but Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, Motherwell, and Dundee United all had bad enough runs to sack their manager, fifth wasn’t exactly any great shakes at all. We also lost Nisbet, big Myko, Egan Riley from that team too.


IMO the squad we’ve had recently was easily relegation quality, but with better midfielders and extra depth my expectations are going up the way from what we get here.


The damage was done in the summer by not strengthening the spine of the team sufficiently then sacking LJ after it was too late to change the squad.

Couldn’t disagree with that more. The idea the squad he’s had has been relegation standard is absolutely miles off it imo but each to their own.

Surely by the same logic, the fact that numerous teams have also sacked managers this year means that finishing bottom 6 wouldn’t just be no great shakes, it would be catastrophic? We can’t point to the fact teams sacked their managers so 5th wasn’t exciting but in the same breath claim a bottom 6 finish in a season where clubs have sacked their managers wouldn’t be all that bad?

[matty_f]

Couldn’t disagree with that more. The idea the squad he’s had has been relegation standard is absolutely miles off it imo but each to their own.

Surely by the same logic, the fact that numerous teams have also sacked managers this year means that finishing bottom 6 wouldn’t just be no great shakes, it would be catastrophic? We can’t point to the fact teams sacked their managers so 5th wasn’t exciting but in the same breath claim a bottom 6 finish in a season where clubs have sacked their managers wouldn’t be all that bad?

You don't think it made a difference taking three starting players out of the team?

Monty was doing ok, January was catastrophic but there was significant mitigation for it. Not only the players away on international duty, but he also lost ALF to injury as well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You don't think it made a difference taking three starting players out of the team?

Monty was doing ok, January was catastrophic but there was significant mitigation for it. Not only the players away on international duty, but he also lost ALF to injury as well.

I never said it didn’t make a difference. It didn’t make us a relegation standard squad though imo. Massive underperformance has made us a relegation standard team over the last couple of months.

[matty_f]

I never said it didn’t make a difference. It didn’t make us a relegation standard squad though imo. Massive underperformance has made us a relegation standard team over the last couple of months.

And the lack of those players contributed massively to the underperformance that made the form relegation standard.

Our performances improved as soon as Miller and Boyle came back into the team, along with adding other players to improve the squad.

[Paulie Walnuts]

And the lack of those players contributed massively to the underperformance that made the form relegation standard.

Our performances improved as soon as Miller and Boyle came back into the team, along with adding other players to improve the squad.

The system we employed also massively contributed to it. Our performances also improved when we went to 4-3-3. That was something that was within the managers control.

[Northernhibee]

And the lack of those players contributed massively to the underperformance that made the form relegation standard.

Our performances improved as soon as Miller and Boyle came back into the team, along with adding other players to improve the squad.

We were back to where we were at the start of the season under LJ - attack our right hand side, get a cross in, goal. Instead of being Delferierre, it was young Whittaker who teams targeted.

That’s not anything against Rory btw, he’s got lots of potential but expecting him to do any more against some of the more physical attackers in this league at his age is unreasonable.

[Northernhibee]

The system we employed also massively contributed to it. Our performances also improved when we went to 4-3-3. That was something that was within the managers control.

We went 4-3-3 with Boyle, Miller, and the new signings though.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We went 4-3-3 with Boyle, Miller, and the new signings though.

We did. We could have done it previously though but NM refused to. It didn’t take those players coming back for it to be an option.

Numerous people were insistent that Boyle wasn’t the player he once was etc. Now his return is the reason for two improved performances. It would seem more likely to me that the change in formation to a system that was staring everyone in the face for months has had at least an equal say in our improvement.

[matty_f]

We did. We could have done it previously though but NM refused to. It didn’t take those players coming back for it to be an option.

I don't think he thought he had the players to do it. He changed once he brought players in.

[Brizo]

3 massive games this month, 2 against the teams who we are fighting for a Top 6 spot, and of course the derby at Tynie

I'm reserving judgement on Montgomerys longevity, or lack of it, until I see how we perform over the course of these three games. The performance and mindset we showed against Celtc and ICT has to be present in these next three fixtures and even if its a mixed bag of results , increased performance, fight and commitment will be a positive improvement on the St Mirren fiasco.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't think he thought he had the players to do it. He changed once he brought players in.

He did imo. He also had Boyle and Miller earlier in the season and still refused to do it. It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest he was just waiting for the return of Boyle and Miller to change from his previous system, one which he openly said he’d be sticking to and one which he stuck to even when Boyle and Miller were available previously.

[The Modfather]

We did. We could have done it previously though but NM refused to. It didn’t take those players coming back for it to be an option.

How much of a difference would 433 have made with Whittaker at RB, Tavares as one of the two wide players and probably on the right, and Vente who doesn’t look like he has the all round game to play up front on his own? With a midfield 3 of Jeggo, Newell & Levit behind them. Without any subs to bring on that don’t weaken us further.