LeVain v Hibees

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

That mistake isn’t on anyone apart from Levitt.it summed up his performance, seems to think you can play football at walking pace.

We don't have the players who can olay this game that Montgomery wants, at the moment. I intend to agree that playing from the back has its benefits, but you have to have the players who are comfortable in doing that. We just don't have that team the now. Levitt today showed that. We gave the opposition a goal from nothing.

[LaMotta]

That mistake isn’t on anyone apart from Levitt.it summed up his performance, seems to think you can play football at walking pace.

I like Levitt but wtf was he doing there????:confused: No logic to it at all. Not even a pass on in the direction he plays it.

[Crazyhorse]

61% possession, not a single effort on goal, barely a chance created, and the opposition having countless chances to score.

Much the same last week at Livingston.

Produce as little over the next two games and we're in dangerous territory yet again.

Those stats are worrying.

[WeeRussell]

If we're a 442 team then it's Operation Sell Levitt in Jan as he offers too little defensively & doesn't do enough going forward to justify being carried

Just to make sure you’re not relying on it. I can assure you that there won’t be an operation of any sort in January 👍

[Unseen work]

I like Levitt but wtf was he doing there????:confused: No logic to it at all. Not even a pass on in the direction he plays it.

He was trying to clip it into Campbell, Marshall tries that pass often and tried it 5 mins in today.

[Crunchie]

Not fragile in the slightest.

Even last Saturday when he was good rather than give him credit you just ripped into him

I didn’t rip into him at all mate, that’s just you being fragile again. I suggest you go back to last weeks thread and show me where I ripped into him. I think Hanlon’s time is well up and he should not be in before Rocky, you feel differently let’s just leave it at that.

[scoopyboy]

I didn’t rip into him at all mate, that’s just you being fragile again. I suggest you go back to last weeks thread and show me where I ripped into him. I think Hanlon’s time is well up and he should not be in before Rocky, you feel differently let’s just leave it at that.

You’ve been wrong on two counts regarding Hanlon in the last week.

Last week you stated the manager for the SJ game would start Rocky before himand last night in another wee dig you said Hibs were getting beat by Rangers in the Scottish Cup Final when he was substituted

You don’t want him playing for Hibs and I get that but I just feel you are a bit relentless in your criticism of him. I’m not fragile about the subject in the slightest and happy to debate but I agree with you and we should just let it go

[Crunchie]

You’ve been wrong on two counts regarding Hanlon in the last week.

Last week you stated the manager for the SJ game would start Rocky before himand last night in another wee dig you said Hibs were getting beat by Rangers in the Scottish Cup Final when he was substituted

You don’t want him playing for Hibs and I get that but I just feel you are a bit relentless in your criticism of him. I’m not fragile about the subject in the slightest and happy to debate but I agree with you and we should just let it go
👍

[LaMotta]

He was trying to clip it into Campbell, Marshall tries that pass often and tried it 5 mins in today.

That pass was never on.

[Springbank]

That pass was never on.

I do wonder where Levitt goes from here

[Since90+2]

Around this time last year we basically had Nisbet, Youan and Melkersen available most weeks.

I think we have more options now.

Even just taking this season before NM arrived we I think averaged 1.75 goals per league game and 2 goals per game in our European games. We are down to 1.2 now.

My own eyes can tell me we aren’t creating many chances. I think the match stats for attempts on goal will be down overall too. We haven’t always taken chances over last year and a bit but we did tend to create a lot.

That's not effective attacking then is it?

It's only effective if the ball actually ends up in the back of the net. If it doesn't, it's obviously not effective.

[JimBHibees]

That pass was never on.

Think it probably was if he connected properly however a very risky pass that is for sure.

[JimBHibees]

We’ve gone from rock bottom and no points to joint 5th (where Johnson finished last season) and 2 points off 3rd.

We have moved from selection and formation bingo to a structured and recognisable formation and shape.

We have only lost 3 league games under Montgomery. 2 in Glasgow and a horror show today having now played every team (stand to be corrected). We lost to every team in the league under Johnson last season.

We’ve been to Hampden under both Maloney and Montgomery. Johnson went out the group stages to Falkirk, Morton and someone else I can’t remember who, and out the Scottish cup after our first game.

Players previously exiled have been developed and others have improved.

Youngsters are getting meaningful minutes and game time when games are in the balance and not just when we’re comfortably winning. Johnson had no intention to bring youngsters through.

Montgomery hasn’t even had a transfer window yet. There’s lots of valid questions and criticism of Montgomery. Today was as bad as what we saw under previous managers and questions about our attacking threat and how we’re using Boyle, Vente, Youan etc are fair.

I don’t believe you really think it hasn’t improved under Montgomery. What is it you see that was better overall under Johnson?

Totally agree with all that today was very poor however to me we have definitely improved in terms of style of play trying to control the game with possession however just like every game if individuals aren't on it and make poor mistakes we will struggle.

[LaMotta]

Think it probably was if he connected properly however a very risky pass that is for sure.

Even if he does connect properly hes putting Campbell in a difficult position as he has a Saints defender close enough to make it hard for him. Awful decision to attempt that pass.

[JimBHibees]

Even if he does connect properly hes putting Campbell in a difficult position as he has a Saints defender close enough to make it hard for him. Awful decision to attempt that pass.

Absolutely

[Paulie Walnuts]

That mistake isn’t on anyone apart from Levitt.it summed up his performance, seems to think you can play football at walking pace.

I’ve read numerous posts on here saying that you just need to have eyes or something along those lines to see how exceptional a player he is.

He’s offered nowhere near enough imo. He shouldn’t be anywhere near a team looking to challenge for third based on what we’ve seen imo.

[B.H.F.C]

We don't have the players who can olay this game that Montgomery wants, at the moment. I intend to agree that playing from the back has its benefits, but you have to have the players who are comfortable in doing that. We just don't have that team the now. Levitt today showed that. We gave the opposition a goal from nothing.

I agree on the whole playing out from the back thing, or rather the slowness with which we try to do it, being really poor at times. But you won’t find players much more comfortable on the ball than Levitt. The mistake he made yesterday was little to do with how we’re being asked to play though IMO. He was under absolutely no pressure and tried to play a ridiculous pass. We’re not getting our money's worth from him.

[Chorley Hibee]

I’ve read numerous posts on here saying that you just need to have eyes or something along those lines to see how exceptional a player he is.

He’s offered nowhere near enough imo. He shouldn’t be anywhere near a team looking to challenge for third based on what we’ve seen imo.

I agree in general, but I honestly think he'd be better utilised further up the pitch, and would help bring the likes of Vente into the game by playing passes in behind for him to feed on.

Him taking passes off the goalkeeper on his own six yard box and attempting passes from there is utter madness.

[Since452]

We’ve gone from rock bottom and no points to joint 5th (where Johnson finished last season) and 2 points off 3rd.

We have moved from selection and formation bingo to a structured and recognisable formation and shape.

We have only lost 3 league games under Montgomery. 2 in Glasgow and a horror show today having now played every team (stand to be corrected). We lost to every team in the league under Johnson last season.

We’ve been to Hampden under both Maloney and Montgomery. Johnson went out the group stages to Falkirk, Morton and someone else I can’t remember who, and out the Scottish cup after our first game.

Players previously exiled have been developed and others have improved.

Youngsters are getting meaningful minutes and game time when games are in the balance and not just when we’re comfortably winning. Johnson had no intention to bring youngsters through.

Montgomery hasn’t even had a transfer window yet. There’s lots of valid questions and criticism of Montgomery. Today was as bad as what we saw under previous managers and questions about our attacking threat and how we’re using Boyle, Vente, Youan etc are fair.

I don’t believe you really think it hasn’t improved under Montgomery. What is it you see that was better overall under Johnson?

Your last paragraph I don't agree with. At least we had the occasional bit of excitement under LJ. We are mind numbingly boring under Montgomery. If LJ had stayed I don't think we'd be any worse than we are right now. Or particularly better for that matter. As soon as we were out of Europe we'd have picked up slightly regardless of who was in charge. Be barely create a chance these days which with the attacking players we have I can't get my head around.

[LaMotta]

Absolutely

:aok:

[B.H.F.C]

Your last paragraph I don't agree with. At least we had the occasional bit of excitement under LJ. We are mind numbingly boring under Montgomery. If LJ had stayed I don't think we'd be any worse than we are right now. Or particularly better for that matter. As soon as we were out of Europe we'd have picked up slightly regardless of who was in charge. Be barely create a chance these days which with the attacking players we have I can't get my head around.

We were worse under LJ. If you just look at it purely based on points taken, Montgomery is out performing what LJ did.. And we were an absolute shambles at the start of this season.

There are real and valid questions to be asked of Montgomery because performances like yesterday are absolutely garbage.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think NM needs to take stock of his I only play a 442 formation policy.

It's too predictable and gives opposite managers a head start

Spot on 👏👏👏

[cabbageandribs1875]

does anyone know why NM was giving it tight to miller yesterday, cliff said NM had a go at him a couple of times before hooking him at HT

what was he doing/not doing

[scoopyboy]

does anyone know why NM was giving it tight to miller yesterday, cliff said NM had a go at him a couple of times before hooking him at HT

what was he doing/not doing

He was subbed because he was ill

[K-Zazu]

I agree in general, but I honestly think he'd be better utilised further up the pitch, and would help bring the likes of Vente into the game by playing passes in behind for him to feed on.

Him taking passes off the goalkeeper on his own six yard box and attempting passes from there is utter madness.

He’s a defensive midfielder

[J-C]

He’s a defensive midfielder

Are we talking about Levitt here, if so then a he's a poor excuse for a defensive midfielder, he can't tackle, isn't strong enough on the ball and his positioning is poor, he'll need more than just being able to pick a decent pass to make it here or at a higher level, so far he's been a big disappointment as far as I'm concerned.

[Since452]

We were worse under LJ. If you just look at it purely based on points taken, Montgomery is out performing what LJ did.. And we were an absolute shambles at the start of this season.

There are real and valid questions to be asked of Montgomery because performances like yesterday are absolutely garbage.

In all honestly i preferred the football last season under LJ than this season under Montgomery. Montgomery is maybe out performing him but the football is eye bleeding. As was the case with LJ last season, tHings may improve after the winter break.

[Stuart93]

In all honestly i preferred the football last season under LJ than this season under Montgomery. Montgomery is maybe out performing him but the football is eye bleeding. As was the case with LJ last season, tHings may improve after the winter break.

I reckon NM’s first port of call was to make us harder to beat whilst working with the same group of players as we were getting beat frequently before LJ was sacked.

He’s managed that to an extent.

I don’t reckon it’s too fair to judge him without any of his own players in the door but admittedly the performances haven’t been exciting.

Hopefully fresh investment means we can get 3 or 4 over the line quality wise that we initially might’ve not been able to. If we do and performances don’t get better, that’s when I’ll start worrying.

[cabbageandribs1875]

He was subbed because he was ill


ah ok, was just reading the match report, i did wonder at the time if it was possibly to do with him being at risk of a red card


St Johnstone had enjoyed a lot of success down their left in the first half and to counter that Josh Campbell replaced Miller at the interval, who was on a booking.

[Chorley Hibee]

He’s a defensive midfielder

He's not doing a very good job of being one.

I look at his attributes and I just don't see a defensive midfielder there.

I'm definitely of the opinion he'd be more useful further forward.

[Trinity Hibee]

He's not doing a very good job of being one.

I look at his attributes and I just don't see a defensive midfielder there.

I'm definitely of the opinion he'd be more useful further forward.

I agree I don’t see him as a DM

[JimBHibees]

In all honestly i preferred the football last season under LJ than this season under Montgomery. Montgomery is maybe out performing him but the football is eye bleeding. As was the case with LJ last season, tHings may improve after the winter break.

Genuinely don't get the eye bleeding chat. Last two games have been poor however quite happy in general we are trying to pass the ball and control a game. Eye bleeding was basically Andorran team away, St Mirren and Motherwell at home where genuinely we turned into the worst version of hoofball.

[B.H.F.C]

I reckon NM’s first port of call was to make us harder to beat whilst working with the same group of players as we were getting beat frequently before LJ was sacked.

He’s managed that to an extent.

I don’t reckon it’s too fair to judge him without any of his own players in the door but admittedly the performances haven’t been exciting.

Hopefully fresh investment means we can get 3 or 4 over the line quality wise that we initially might’ve not been able to. If we do and performances don’t get better, that’s when I’ll start worrying.

Pretty much how I see it. He’s got us up the league and picked up a decent number of points with a squad that I still think is unbalanced and really lacking in certain areas.

I’m not expecting anything major in January despite the investment chat. We saw last year that it doesn’t need wholesale changes in January to improve you for the remainder of the season though. Last year it was Jeggo and CJ. Hopefully we can use the Melkersen money to get a couple of really decent players as a minimum.

[Chorley Hibee]

Genuinely don't get the eye bleeding chat. Last two games have been poor however quite happy in general we are trying to pass the ball and control a game. Eye bleeding was basically Andorran team away, St Mirren and Motherwell at home where genuinely we turned into the worst version of hoofball.

The last two games have been dreadful and has left me bored stiff if truth be told.

If it continues, then it will turn even more people away.

I go home and away, but last Saturday really has left me questioning Dingwall this Saturday.

[J-C]

In all honestly i preferred the football last season under LJ than this season under Montgomery. Montgomery is maybe out performing him but the football is eye bleeding. As was the case with LJ last season, tHings may improve after the winter break.

Yea we know, you keep harping on about it 🙄

[theonlywayisup]

In all honestly i preferred the football last season under LJ than this season under Montgomery. Montgomery is maybe out performing him but the football is eye bleeding. As was the case with LJ last season, tHings may improve after the winter break.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that I spent the whole of the LJ era walking away from games saying that I had no idea what the game plan was. I still remember those games that we seemed to have zero creativity to break down a well drilled team. Now, at least, I can see a game plan. Some may not like it, but he's adopting what many other teams are doing. I'm encouraged by what he's trying, but he needs better players to make it work.

That said, Saturday (and the one before) was grim to watch!

[WeeRussell]

Your last paragraph I don't agree with. At least we had the occasional bit of excitement under LJ. We are mind numbingly boring under Montgomery. If LJ had stayed I don't think we'd be any worse than we are right now. Or particularly better for that matter. As soon as we were out of Europe we'd have picked up slightly regardless of who was in charge. Be barely create a chance these days which with the attacking players we have I can't get my head around.

When you say you don’t think we’d be any worse under LJ - you don’t think we’d be discussing a race for third at Christmas time if he’d remained in charge, do you?

We’re far from perfect - but we’re in a significantly better place for Monty coming in.

[Smartie]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that I spent the whole of the LJ era walking away from games saying that I had no idea what the game plan was. I still remember those games that we seemed to have zero creativity to break down a well drilled team. Now, at least, I can see a game plan. Some may not like it, but he's adopting what many other teams are doing. I'm encouraged by what he's trying, but he needs better players to make it work.

That said, Saturday (and the one before) was grim to watch!

Under LJ last season there were a few times I felt like we'd done well but that he was wringing just about every drop possible out of a limited group of players. He didn't change the line up that much during some spells and he didn't make subs (as there was f all on the bench) very often. When he did through necessity (Tynecastle last game) his choice not to shake it up more earlier was vindicated.

I don't really feel like Monty is getting the best from our current group of players, especially those who we might have reason to believe are our best ones.

Rather than enter the whole "LJ great / Monty bad" (and vice versa) stuff, I'd say they're both managers who have grappled with a limited squad, achieving a mixed bag of results along the way, with pros and cons from the pair of them.

I actually have optimism re Monty and think he could be excellent for us in the long term once he gets his own players in (and some youngsters kick on), his ceiling is higher than LJ's imo so it was a change worth making. He'll need to keep the natives happy with results and performances in the short term though because it's quite early for him to be receiving some of the criticism he is receiving.

They're both quite markedly different which is interesting from the point of view of a club being meant to have some sort of a stable vision.

[Since452]

When you say you don’t think we’d be any worse under LJ - you don’t think we’d be discussing a race for third at Christmas time if he’d remained in charge, do you?

We’re far from perfect - but we’re in a significantly better place for Monty coming in.

We weren't far off 3rd last season under LJ to be fair. If it wasn't for some horrendous VAR decisions we would have been. The second half of last season after the January window was actually pretty decent. He didn't follow it up though and deserved the sack in the end.

I don't think we currently have the players to play the way Montgomery wants to play. In a season where finishing 3rd place is gigantic, someone at the club has taken the decision to appoint him knowing he will stick religiously to 442 and playing out from the back effectively sacrificing half the season until he can bring players in that can do it, maybe. After spending an absolute fortune to suit LJ's preferred system. Madness. It's not Montgomery's fault if we've employed him knowing that is how he'd play.

In my opinion, we have a decent squad and some terrific attacking players who are being nullified more and more by each passing game. Something isn't right. I feel we're more likely to take a bad beating than hand one out.

Luckily the rest of the league is pretty crap as well.

[B.H.F.C]

We weren't far off 3rd last season under LJ to be fair. If it wasn't for some horrendous VAR decisions we would have been. The second half of last season after the January window was actually pretty decent. He didn't follow it up though and deserved the sack in the end.

I don't think we currently have the players to play the way Montgomery wants to play. In a season where finishing 3rd place is gigantic, someone at the club has taken the decision to appoint him knowing he will stick religiously to 442 and playing out from the back effectively sacrificing half the season until he can bring players in that can do it, maybe. After spending an absolute fortune to suit LJ's preferred system. Madness. It's not Montgomery's fault if we've employed him knowing that is how he'd play.

In my opinion, we have a decent squad and some terrific attacking players who are being nullified more and more by each passing game. Something isn't right. I feel we're more likely to take a bad beating than hand one out.

We’re no sacrificing anything. He’s got us up the league, we’re two points off third, he’s taken more points than the vast majority of the teams in the league since he came in and is taking more points per game than the previous manager did over his time in charge.

I can appreciate that folk might not think it’s been great, I don’t, but some of the stuff being posted by people who have made up their mind and don’t want to budge is utterly ridiculous. Sacrificing half the season ffs.

[jeffers]

We’re no sacrificing anything. He’s got us up the league, we’re two points off third, he’s taken more points than the vast majority of the teams in the league since he came in and is taking more points per game than the previous manager did over his time in charge.

I can appreciate that folk might not think it’s been great, I don’t, but some of the stuff being posted by people who have made up their mind and don’t want to budge is utterly ridiculous. Sacrificing half the season ffs.

It’s mental. We had posters telling us Johnson needed more windows. Monty hasn’t had any and has improved us. Yeah it’s a hard watch at times and I’d like to see a bit more flexibility but he has his way of playing and he’s sticking to it. I’d like him to get that chance. He’ll live and die by that.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s mental. We had posters telling us Johnson needed more windows. Monty hasn’t had any and has improved us. Yeah it’s a hard watch at times and I’d like to see a bit more flexibility but he has his way of playing and he’s sticking to it. I’d like him to get that chance. He’ll live and die by that.

Saturday was as bad as anything I’ve seen in a long time. You could tell how it was going to go after about two minutes, it just had that feel about it. But where we are now, to where we were three months ago is good.

If he gets the opportunity to make changes, we continue to see the same type of performances as we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks and/or results get worse, there is a different conversation to be had. As I say, I can totally appreciate criticism and questions being asked because the last couple of games have been grim but I read some posts and wonder if folk actually believe what they’re writing, or if they’re writing it because they feel they should.

[jeffers]

Saturday was as bad as anything I’ve seen in a long time. You could tell how it was going to go after about two minutes, it just had that feel about it. But where we are now, to where we were three months ago is good.

If he gets the opportunity to make changes, we continue to see the same type of performances as we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks and/or results get worse, there is a different conversation to be had. As I say, I can totally appreciate criticism and questions being asked because the last couple of games have been grim but I read some posts and wonder if folk actually believe what they’re writing, or if they’re writing it because they feel they should.

Totally agree. Saturday was awful, we all know it, I’m sure Monty does too.

Had we stayed the same or got worse than we started the league campaign under Johnson then it would be a different story. I never agreed with the multiple windows chat or x number of games required to judge him that we kept hearing from Johnson. We are better under Monty and I expect improvement when he gets to bring in a few and he deserves that opportunity based on what he’s done up until this point. Doesn’t mean it’s perfect or I’m totally happy though.

[SHODAN]

Hibs win/loss percentages after first fourteen league games (Montgomery's total so far), last five managers:

Montgomery: 36%/21%
Johnson: 43%/43%
Maloney: 21%/36%
Ross: 43%/36%
Heckingbottom: 50%/21%

Hecky the clear winner here. Under Montgomery we're generally tough to beat but have been struggling to grind out wins.