Boyle goal onside

[McGruber]

Don't care what the computer says, that goal is onside. Liverpool/Spurs all over

Worst decision since deciding to leave Levitt last man back at the half way line playing with a man extra

[MWHIBBIES]

When I saw loads on here laughing at klopp calling out the refs, I knew we were in for a big time shafting in a big game.

Fans and clubs need to grow up, put their colours aside and get rid of these refs.

[HarpOnHibee]

The computer says whatever they want it to say.

[Since452]

It was marginal. Probably was offside but when you're taking 10 mins to look at it and splitting hairs then surely it goes in the favour of the attacking team? Sucking all the enjoyment from football.

[SeanWilson]

5 minutes to take a decision that was 3 yards offside 😂 ….. nonsense.

[nonshinyfinish]

It was marginal. Probably was offside but when you're taking 10 mins to look at it and splitting hairs then surely it goes in the favour of the attacking team? Sucking all the enjoyment from football.

Thing is it looked really tight, but the lines that they showed were anything but marginal. Lines must have been at least a yard apart. It almost looked like they'd drawn Boyle's line from his shoulder but the defender's line from his feet. Can't understand why a simple offside with no complicating factors could take so long.

Would like to see it again, someone will have a screengrab.

[Trinity Hibee]

It was marginal. Probably was offside but when you're taking 10 mins to look at it and splitting hairs then surely it goes in the favour of the attacking team? Sucking all the enjoyment from football.

You would think so but not with these idiots operating it

[eastmainsmsh]

On a mile the only thing is Boyler is too fast

[Carheenlea]

VAR is largely anti football. Most purists know that, but ultimately, we need to work harder than others to source those big wins.

Hearts will face similar tomorrow. If they prevail then fair play to them.

They want an Aberdeen v Rangers final. It’s so corrupt I’m actually half hoping Hearts do upset the plans.

[Lee Marvin]

Are some seriously saying that was off??? I've seen it about ten times and can't see anyway it's offside.

VAR has ruined football for me.

[nonshinyfinish]

They want an Aberdeen v Rangers final.

Why?

[neil7908]

Thing is it looked really tight, but the lines that they showed were anything but marginal. Lines must have been at least a yard apart. It almost looked like they'd drawn Boyle's line from his shoulder but the defender's line from his feet. Can't understand why a simple offside with no complicating factors could take so long.

Would like to see it again, someone will have a screengrab.

Saw one on Twitter and it's literally that - Boyle's line is on his shoulder and the Aberdeen player is from his foot.

I have to say as soon as Boyle picked up the ball I assumed he was offside but the length of time it took was a disgrace.

[#2 Double Tap]

5 minutes to take a decision that was 3 yards offside 😂 ….. nonsense.

na it was 1 sec to make the decision, the rest of the time to photoshop the still ;(

[Carheenlea]

Why?

2016 still hits hard for many in the game.

[nonshinyfinish]

Saw one on Twitter and it's literally that - Boyle's line is on his shoulder and the Aberdeen player is from his foot.

I have to say as soon as Boyle picked up the ball I assumed he was offside but the length of time it took was a disgrace.

Just seen it again (https://twitter.com/viaplaysportsuk/status/1720871650684527061) and that part makes sense – for the defender the line comes from, his foot is his furthest body part back. I was actually thinking about the defender nearer Boyle – to me it looks like his shoulder is further back than the other defender's foot and the line should be drawn from there. Boyle might still be off, but the whole thing looks weird particularly once you factor in the time taken.

[Wull]

Was there any news of Boyles injury after the game, hoping it was just a tweak

[Exuberance1875]

Absolutely pointless having VAR in Scottish football. Benefits nobody, slows the game down and it’s still so so corrupt

[Waxy]

Can we see the lines?
Looked onside to me

[gbhibby]

Just seen it again (https://twitter.com/viaplaysportsuk/status/1720871650684527061) and that part makes sense – for the defender the line comes from, his foot is his furthest body part back. I was actually thinking about the defender nearer Boyle – to me it looks like his shoulder is further back than the other defender's foot and the line should be drawn from there. Boyle might still be off, but the whole thing looks weird particularly once you factor in the time taken.
This is why the offside rule needs to be changed. The attacking player's body will always be angled forward . It needs changed to favour the attacking side. This is sucking the life out the game. The law law needs to he the whole of the attacking player's body must be offside
It should not take that length of time to draw the lines with the current stop frame technology

[Hibs90]

Can we see the lines?
Looked onside to me

They spent 5 minutes trying to draw lines that made it clear it was offside, so it didn't look as contentious to people.

They are corrupt as ****.

[Kato]

https://i.ibb.co/Pcf7pnH/artflow-202311041945.jpg (https://ibb.co/pf9tD8F)

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[Carheenlea]

Absolutely pointless having VAR in Scottish football. Benefits nobody, slows the game down and it’s still so so corrupt

Of great benefit too the few with influence. Was never going to be something we would reap any reward from.

[Hibs90]

https://i.ibb.co/Pcf7pnH/artflow-202311041945.jpg (https://ibb.co/pf9tD8F)

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Being played on by the right back, clearly.

Just cheats. What's the point in all honesty?

[GonzoReturns]

Spend more time trying to find out why not to award a goal. Games over when that’s called offside.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Devlin played him onside



but don't tell Mr Var or Brother Beaton

[Waxy]

Its onside.
There’s clearly a matter of inches involved and they dont have a clue either way.
It’s onside.

[Eyrie]

Yet another VARce.

VAR is for clear and obvious errors, so by definition if it takes over four minutes to make the decision it cannot be clear and obvious so the goal should have stood.

And for a follow up VARce, they decided to completely ignore Vente being clipped by their keeper.

[Carheenlea]

https://i.ibb.co/Pcf7pnH/artflow-202311041945.jpg (https://ibb.co/pf9tD8F)

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Has the skill of playing off the shoulder of defenders and staying bang on line gone from the game now?

You’re either on or off - level doesn’t seem to exist anymore. Much to the joy of the anti football VAR enthusiasts who find huge satisfaction forensically examining perfectly good goals for possible minuscule infringements not visible to the naked eye in order to suck the life out of any enjoyment the lovers of raw football may enjoy.

[expresso]

Robbed

[BoomtownHibees]

Devlin played him onside



but don't tell Mr Var or Brother Beaton

.

[danhibees1875]

Being played on by the right back, clearly.

Just cheats. What's the point in all honesty?

Left back?

I think the camera angle is playing some tricks, looking at the distance from the different shade of grass then it doesn't look like there is much in it either way.

I'm inclined to believe he probably was offside but would rather these were just given as perceived at the time and let the game flow without VAR looking into it to the Nth degree.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

I thought straight away he was offside (watching on TV) outrageous that it took so long to make a decision - albeit it was probably the right one, but if it really takes that long to decide they should be going by the initial decision in my view.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Looked well on to me, wouldn’t be the first time VAR has made a decision that ended up to be incorrect


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[Johnny_Leith]

He looked offside in real time at the game.

The pictures provided for VAR, it's hard to tell. Could go either way I guess.

The pen on vente though, looked a stonewaller at the game and can't believe it wasn't checked by var.

[ChuckNor]

I can’t believe people on here aren’t making a bigger deal of this. He was blatantly onside. The lines drawn were clearly wrong. The club should be out demanding an apology.

[Irish_Steve]

Just back, I thought it was offside at the time. I was sitting at the very top row so could watch the TV replays, it always looked really close to me and when they eventually showed the lines, Martin's shoulder was in an offside position.

Now, I know you can technically score with your shoulder but why on earth did it take four minutes. Even with the farce at Liverpool, the lines were drawn within seconds but this lot up here take ages.

I don't think they are corrupt, I just think they are effing useless.

[douglashibs]

Regardless of whether the decision is right or wrong, it cannot take 4 minutes to see a clear and obvious error. The “clear and obvious” part of the rule seems to have been quietly binned.

[Onceinawhile]

Regardless of whether the decision is right or wrong, it cannot take 4 minutes to see a clear and obvious error. The “clear and obvious” part of the rule seems to have been quietly binned.

Its clear and obvious for issues that aren't factual.

Offside is factual.

[SlickShoes]

Its clear and obvious for issues that aren't factual.

Offside is factual.

It still takes too long, placing lines on a still image is not a difficult task on a computer. Who do they have doing these? Are the refs remotely computer literate? The decision should be decided by the time the celebration is over, the current wait time can change the momentum of the game, it’s absolutely ridiculous to wait 4 minutes to see if a man was ahead of another man on a straight line.

[Swedish hibee]

Var is anti football. It's never about goals. The clubs got what the clubs wanted. Sadly.

[Kato]

it’s absolutely ridiculous to wait 4 minutes to see if a man was ahead of another man on a straight line.

Stinks.

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[weecounty hibby]

The offside rule needs to change to take into account VAR. The object of the game is to score goals and we are now trying very very hard to come up with reasons to disallow goals. I still do not think that should have been overturned and I'd say that if it was scored against us.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Looking at the screenshot I can't tell if he's on or off

[Skol]

At the game I thought it was offside and I was right in line with it. However when you take the time of the celebration a standing about waiting there mst have been enough doubt to leave the decision with on field team.

[BH Hibs]

Something stinks about this. Everyone says it was close and the time taken to get the decision would indicate it was close however they’ve indicated that Boyle was about a yard offside when the final outcome is shown. Also was the penalty incident or the challenge on Miller even checked?

[SlickShoes]

Something stinks about this. Everyone says it was close and the time taken to get the decision would indicate it was close however they’ve indicated that Boyle was about a yard offside when the final outcome is shown. Also was the penalty incident or the challenge on Miller even checked?

Penalty definitely wasn’t checked because there was no pause in play we just continued

[Chorley Hibee]

We'll just roll over and accept it, as usual.

[SerenityGreen]

You jest, however. The conspiracy theorist in me agrees that given the time it takes to decide whether it's offside or not takes too long to convince me that it's anything other than an opportunity to alter the "technology" to suit the agenda.
I wasn't at the game so bad the advantage of tv viewing. When the tv is paused boyler looks onside. When the lines are drawn he looks miles off. Or they "make it" look miles off.
One final conspiracy theory, it was a stick on penalty against vente. No var intervention there.
Why not?

[Johnny_Leith]

I'd love to hear the audio on the decision.

[SlickShoes]

You jest, however. The conspiracy theorist in me agrees that given the time it takes to decide whether it's offside or not takes too long to convince me that it's anything other than an opportunity to alter the "technology" to suit the agenda.
I wasn't at the game so bad the advantage of tv viewing. When the tv is paused boyler looks onside. When the lines are drawn he looks miles off. Or they "make it" look miles off.
One final conspiracy theory, it was a stick on penalty against vente. No var intervention there.
Why not?

You know that the situation with Vente is going to happen against us in one of the next few games, it’ll go to VAR and it’ll be given as a penalty.

[SerenityGreen]

It still takes too long, placing lines on a still image is not a difficult task on a computer. Who do they have doing these? Are the refs remotely computer literate? The decision should be decided by the time the celebration is over, the current wait time can change the momentum of the game, it’s absolutely ridiculous to wait 4 minutes to see if a man was ahead of another man on a straight line.
Cos it takes time to reposition the footage to suit!

[Ron D Hibbie]

We'll just roll over and accept it, as usual.

Surprised nobody has mentioned the cheat of a refs injury time. If var took nearly 5 mins.that means he played 2 mins for everthing else.

[Chorley Hibee]

You know that the situation with Vente is going to happen against us in one of the next few games, it’ll go to VAR and it’ll be given as a penalty.

Look at the penalty they gave Aberdeen (Duk) against us at Pittodrie last season.

Yet, incredibly, Vente's wasn't even looked at.

Will our cowardly club say anything?

[GreenCastle]

It's a shambles.

They only have 1 camera doing looking at it. It was situated at front of south upper.

Scottish Football has the cheap version of VAR with less cameras.

They can't even get decisions right in England with all the money and technology so we have no chance up here with the West Coast bias.

What about the penalty claims?

Our officials are so useless in Scotland - it ruins the game and it wasn't that long ago Duk got a penalty in Aberdeen for diving against Hibs.

I've even looked at the picture of the line and look at the right back of Aberdeen - draw a line down and due to the angle it's very similar to Boyle.

[SerenityGreen]

I'd love to hear the audio on the decision.

Mikey Stewart, commentating, that's a definite penalty.

[SaulGoodman]

The non-penalty decision annoyed me more than the offside.

[Hibees1973]

It's a shambles.

They only have 1 camera doing looking at it. It was situated at front of south upper.

Scottish Football has the cheap version of VAR with less cameras.

They can't even get decisions right in England with all the money and technology so we have no chance up here with the West Coast bias.

What about the penalty claims?

Our officials are so useless in Scotland - it ruins the game and it wasn't that long ago Duk got a penalty in Aberdeen for diving against Hibs.

I've even looked at the picture of the line and look at the right back of Aberdeen - draw a line down and due to the angle it's very similar to Boyle.

Eaxctly.

If they can't have a camera close in line, it's not accurate.

No point in having VAR if it's this watered down version.

[green day]

I thought Boyle was offside at the game (from North Stand) and didn't think the Vente one was worthy of a second look.

Appreciate others will have different opinions, but let's not pretend that these are why we lost that tonight.

Aberdeen were garbage, but we are frankly not good enough to capitalise.

[SerenityGreen]

The non-penalty decision annoyed me more than the offside.

You can always tell with Beaton, he won't give the decisions that will make a difference to the outcome of the game. In our favour I mean.
Look at the pen he gave the rankers against hearts. Play continued a good bit before it was called back to look at.
Why ventes one not looked at

[sean04]

I thought Boyle was offside at the game (from North Stand) and didn't think the Vente one was worthy of a second look.

Appreciate others will have different opinions, but let's not pretend that these are why we lost that tonight.

Aberdeen were garbage, but we are frankly not good enough to capitalise.

Have you seen the vente incident back?

[tamig]

Don't care what the computer says, that goal is onside. Liverpool/Spurs all over

Worst decision since deciding to leave Levitt last man back at the half way line playing with a man extra

No. It was clearly offside.

[Hibees1973]

I thought Boyle was offside at the game (from North Stand) and didn't think the Vente one was worthy of a second look.

Appreciate others will have different opinions, but let's not pretend that these are why we lost that tonight.

Aberdeen were garbage, but we are frankly not good enough to capitalise.

Fair enough.

But in tight games like this you need the breaks to go for you.

We didn't score a clear goal or one from 25 yards. But it is fact that the breaks didn't got for us tonight which contributed to why we lost.

[B.H.F.C]

I thought Boyle was offside at the game (from North Stand) and didn't think the Vente one was worthy of a second look.

Appreciate others will have different opinions, but let's not pretend that these are why we lost that tonight.

Aberdeen were garbage, but we are frankly not good enough to capitalise.

Aberdeen were crap, and we did have our own failings, but those decisions did have a huge impact on the outcome. The penalty, seeing it back, was absolutely nailed on.

[wookie70]

We were right in line in teh North stand and most around us never celebrated the goal because it looked a yard offside. As it turns out after 5 minutes and a few crayon lines it was a yard offside. The Vente pen is an error and I would argue Shinnie should have been sent off for two clear bookings withing a few seconds of each other. Anti football with the assistance of the officials won. It usually does in Scotland and after initially being in favour of VAR I just want it gone now as we don't have nearly enough bearable referees to officiate on the pitch never mind in a studio somewhere.

[Golden Bear]

If "the evidence" is based on a "brownie instamatic" camera then what else can we expect?

It's time for the football authorities up here to move into the 21st century and properly utilise modern technologies - especially at our so called national stadium.

[GreenCastle]

Was behind the goals for the penalty on Vente and looked like a penalty at the time and the replay.

Also looked like a handball and even possible foul on Rocky when Doidge header nearly went in.

Even Beaten taking ages to write the yellow cards and stopping the flow of the game was amateur reffing.

7 mins added time?

Close to 4 mins for the VAR check? Then add in subs / injuries / both teams celebrating a goal.

[LaMotta]

We were right in line in teh North stand and most around us never celebrated the goal because it looked a yard offside. As it turns out after 5 minutes and a few crayon lines it was a yard offside. The Vente pen is an error and I would argue Shinnie should have been sent off for two clear bookings withing a few seconds of each other. Anti football with the assistance of the officials won. It usually does in Scotland and after initially being in favour of VAR I just want it gone now as we don't have nearly enough bearable referees to officiate on the pitch never mind in a studio somewhere.

A yard offside? Are you sure???

[Skol]

We were right in line in teh North stand and most around us never celebrated the goal because it looked a yard offside. As it turns out after 5 minutes and a few crayon lines it was a yard offside. The Vente pen is an error and I would argue Shinnie should have been sent off for two clear bookings withing a few seconds of each other. Anti football with the assistance of the officials won. It usually does in Scotland and after initially being in favour of VAR I just want it gone now as we don't have nearly enough bearable referees to officiate on the pitch never mind in a studio somewhere.

I celebrated the goal as it was given, albeit my feeling is it was offside. I was shocked it wasnt flagged at the game

Pictures i have seen are inconclusive. However, my got feel being directly in line was it was off so i am ok with that call

[GreenCastle]

We were right in line in teh North stand and most around us never celebrated the goal because it looked a yard offside. As it turns out after 5 minutes and a few crayon lines it was a yard offside. The Vente pen is an error and I would argue Shinnie should have been sent off for two clear bookings withing a few seconds of each other. Anti football with the assistance of the officials won. It usually does in Scotland and after initially being in favour of VAR I just want it gone now as we don't have nearly enough bearable referees to officiate on the pitch never mind in a studio somewhere.

I want the opposite - we hear ALL the VAR conversations during the game which can be heard at home or downloaded after game.

Any dubious decisions are explained with a reason to the fans at the game who can VIEW the incident as we pay to attend. Being in the stadium not knowing is ****.

The audio is recorded and transparent for every game.

No hiding - just clear accountability of decisions.

[sean04]

On vente penalty incident, I remember aberdeen getting a very similar pen against us at Pittodrie. Marshall came out and duk knock it past him and took a dive, went to var and was giving

[LewysGot2]

On vente penalty incident, I remember aberdeen getting a very similar pen against us at Pittodrie. Marshall came out and duk knock it past him and took a dive, went to var and was giving

Good comparison actually in that the went to VAR - the Friday night game up there.

[wookie70]

A yard offside? Are you sure??? Look at the lines where the linesman is nearest the camera. That is the distance of the offside and it looks about a yard to me. Maybe 2 and a bit foot would be more accurate but it is clearly offside. The way I read the match day thread walking balk to the car I assumed the lines must have been on top of each other. It isn't even one that is dubious.

[Glory Lurker]

Was in the south, a bit ahead of Boyle taking the pass. Thought it was tight but, like the good old days, gave a moment's look at the lino to check and went doolaly.

Watching the clip, not only did the lino not have an issue, not one of the Aberdeen team did.

I know they check all goals. Fair enough. But what were they doing for four minutes? What sort of car boot sale, Commodore 64 VAR system have we got that lines take that long to draw? And if it takes that long to do a simple task, is it reliable?

[wookie70]

On vente penalty incident, I remember aberdeen getting a very similar pen against us at Pittodrie. Marshall came out and duk knock it past him and took a dive, went to var and was giving

That wasn't similar as Marshall never went near that diving cheat Duk. I was photographing that game and there was a good amount of daylight between them. Unbelievable decision and I think Vente was fouled in teh box today for a clear pen.

[HibeeMackenzie]

They drew the lines on the 3rd defender up, and even he was playing him on. Blatant corruption

[Tyler Durden]

There’s an angle from a bit deeper (not the one behind the goal) where it seems pretty clear that Vente dives.

The keeper doesn’t make contact with him.

It wasn’t a penalty. Don’t base your opinion on the angle from behind the goal, it’s deceptive

[NC1875]

There’s an angle from a bit deeper (not the one behind the goal) where it seems pretty clear that Vente dives.

The keeper doesn’t make contact with him.

It wasn’t a penalty. Don’t base your opinion on the angle from behind the goal, it’s deceptive

My mate mentioned this as well. But he’s a *** so I thought he was at the wind up and didn’t reply to him 😂

[Greenbeard]

This is why the offside rule needs to be changed. The attacking player's body will always be angled forward . It needs changed to favour the attacking side. This is sucking the life out the game. The law law needs to he the whole of the attacking player's body must be offside
It should not take that length of time to draw the lines with the current stop frame technology
Wherever you draw the offside line, be it back foot, front knee, or whatever, there will always be borderline cases.
I favour using the trunk, like a photo finish in athletics. Takes away the unfairness of your stride pattern and where your feet/knees are at the moment the pass is hit.

[Biggie]

JHC Bournemouth get their goal and ours is chalked off......it's just me, right ?

[number9dream]

Yet another VARce.

VAR is for clear and obvious errors, so by definition if it takes over four minutes to make the decision it cannot be clear and obvious so the goal should have stood.

And for a follow up VARce, they decided to completely ignore Vente being clipped by their keeper.


Clear and obvious does not apply to offside. You either are or you ain’t.
Embarrassing how long the decision took though.

[SanFranHibs]

Being played on by the right back, clearly.

Just cheats. What's the point in all honesty?

That is what I thought. His foot is inline with Boyle. Boyle's arm does not count, does it?

27353

[wookie70]

That is what I thought. His foot is inline with Boyle. Boyle's arm does not count, does it?

27353

Any part of the body that can legally score a goal. In this case his shoulder and no doubt he is offside.

[Glory Lurker]

Is the line for Boyle's pinky or whatever drawn from the angle of the camera? You can draw a line at right angles from the wings okay from any angle as it's on the ground but surely you need to be in line with the pinky to work out where it is?

[SanFranHibs]

Any part of the body that can legally score a goal. In this case his shoulder and no doubt he is offside.

That is my understnding. Did not think his shoulder was ahead of the defenders foot. Maybe just seeing what I want to see. Specsavers for me perhaps.

[greenginger]

what gets me is the frame they choose to take to draw the lines on.

The ball looks like it’s left Fish’s foot therefore the pass was made a couple of frames earlier which might show Boyle being on side.

[heretoday]

Scrap VAR. It's a piece of nonsense.

[Forza Fred]

This is why the offside rule needs to be changed. The attacking player's body will always be angled forward . It needs changed to favour the attacking side. This is sucking the life out the game. The law law needs to he the whole of the attacking player's body must be offside
It should not take that length of time to draw the lines with the current stop frame technology

I agree.

The introduction of VAR and its forensic like review has removed the possibility of an attacker and defender from being ‘in line with each other’ and therefore onside, as linesmen used to call ‘too close to call’ situations in the past.

Today it is basically a case of part of your body, no matter how minute, being ‘in front’ or ‘behind’.

The offside law was never designed with ‘millimetres’ in mind, and needs to be refined to fit in with today’s technology…or the technology removed.

[snedzuk]

what gets me is the frame they choose to take to draw the lines on.

The ball looks like it’s left Fish’s foot therefore the pass was made a couple of frames earlier which might show Boyle being on side.

This - the ball is blurred and elongated so it's already left Fish's foot.

That aside, it's meant to be a Video Assistant Referee, not a Video Referee. So why does Beaton go nowhere near a monitor. That call has been made by the Assistant and the actual Referee didn't even check it.

[Salisbury Hibby]

This crap about being able to score with his shoulder does my head in.

It's FOOTball. Just take the lines from the feet.

Or whichever part the player initially uses or scores with.

Use a line from the furthest forward part of the defender.

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[Salisbury Hibby]

This crap about being able to score with his shoulder does my head in.

It's FOOTball. Just take the lines from the feet.

Or whichever part the player initially uses or scores with.

Use a line from the furthest forward part of the defender.

Sent from my SM-A536B using TapatalkI meant furthest back!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[LaMotta]

Fifa already know that the current offside law is a joke, outlawing countless good goals like Boyles last night.

Pre var thats a goal everytime as he is deemed in line with the defender. Under the new proposed Fifa rules then it would be a goal again

Explained here:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/arsene-wenger-offside-rule-change-221240

Just taking them too long to implement it.

[Posh Swanny]

We must at the very least demand the VAR audio so we can hear what took so long.

[Salisbury Hibby]

Fifa already know that the current offside law is a joke, outlawing countless good goals like Boyles last night.

Pre var thats a goal everytime as he is deemed in line with the defender. Under the new proposed Fifa rules then it would be a goal again

Explaind here:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/arsene-wenger-offside-rule-change-221240

Just taking them too long to implement it.I agree with Arsene's proposal. It's in the spirit of the game to favour the offense with the offside rule.

I too am sick of var looking for the minutest of details to disallow a goal.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[LaMotta]

I agree with Arsene's proposal. It's in the spirit of the game to favour the offense with the offside rule.

I too am sick of var looking for the minutest of details to disallow a goal.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Took my daughter to her first Hampden trip last night, first huge game. That stupid rule has robbed me of a glorious moment with her. Her wee face when she thought we had scored and then the difference after I explained it had been ruled out :boo hoo:

[Hibs90]

Any part of the body that can legally score a goal. In this case his shoulder and no doubt he is offside.

The lines aren't straight or at the right angle?

https://x.com/SirNotTomFarmer/status/1720947508883701876?s=20

[CentreLine]

Took my daughter to her first Hampden trip last night, first huge game. That stupid rule has robbed me of a glorious moment with her. Her wee face when she thought we had scored and then the difference after I explained it had been ruled out :boo hoo:

When you look back you realise the whole daywas a good one with your daughter regardless.
I was there with my 3 and 5 year old grandchildren and they had a fabulous day. It will always be their first pro football match and it was a privilege and a pleasure to have survived long enough to be there with them. Not that I have any known medical issues, I just feel so many parents and grandparents never get that moment.

[LaMotta]

When you look back you realise the whole daywas a good one with your daughter regardless.
I was there with my 3 and 5 year old grandchildren and they had a fabulous day. It will always be their first pro football match and it was a privilege and a pleasure to have survived long enough to be there with them. Not that I have any known medical issues, I just feel so many parents and grandparents never get that moment.


You are right mate still a good day overall. Gutting that a daft rule didnt make it a great day.

I wonder how many great/important goals over the years pre var wouldnt have counted under the current rules? There must be hundreds.

[B.H.F.C]

Took my daughter to her first Hampden trip last night, first huge game. That stupid rule has robbed me of a glorious moment with her. Her wee face when she thought we had scored and then the difference after I explained it had been ruled out :boo hoo:

Think having my laddie at his first game made it even worse. Bad enough when you feel **** yourself and you turn round and he’s standing with tears streaming down the face.

[147lothian]

This was a game that was ruined by VAR. If there was no VAR there the Boyle goal stands, IF it was offside it could only have been a micrometer. Two penalty calls, one for Handball from the Vente shot, the second one when their goalkeeper loses the ball and brings down the Hibs player, these calls never went to VAR. VAR would have most likely have gave both penalties because VAR looks at everything in slow motion.

[Since90+2]

This was a game that was ruined by VAR. If there was no VAR there the Boyle goal stands, IF it was offside it could only have been a micrometer. Two penalty calls, one for Handball from the Vente shot, the second one when their goalkeeper loses the ball and brings down the Hibs player, these calls never went to VAR. VAR would have most likely have gave both penalties because VAR looks at everything in slow motion.

It's not that var didn't look at the penalties. Everything gets checked, they just didn't send it to the referee to check. If it's given on field by Beaton though I highly doubt var overturns the decision.

[LewysGot2]

The goal being scored then taken away was the single biggest moment of the game. If it was technically or marginally offside, so be it, but the psychology of it destroyed us. We never looked like repeating it and they got the biggest lift, having been awful all game. It was like a shot of adrenalin for them.

[greenginger]

This - the ball is blurred and elongated so it's already left Fish's foot.

That aside, it's meant to be a Video Assistant Referee, not a Video Referee. So why does Beaton go nowhere near a monitor. That call has been made by the Assistant and the actual Referee didn't even check it.

That’s probably what took the 4 minute var check.

Find a frame that shows Boyle offside but the ball still near enough Fish’s foot to not look ridiculous.

Also 7 added minutes, take away the 4 minute var check and you are left with 3 minutes added on for the numerous subs and injuries :grr:

[Greenbeard]

Fifa already know that the current offside law is a joke, outlawing countless good goals like Boyles last night.

Pre var thats a goal everytime as he is deemed in line with the defender. Under the new proposed Fifa rules then it would be a goal again

Explained here:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/arsene-wenger-offside-rule-change-221240

Just taking them too long to implement it.
Cue specialist running coaches teaching players to run with one arm outstretched behind them.

[LaMotta]

Think having my laddie at his first game made it even worse. Bad enough when you feel **** yourself and you turn round and he’s standing with tears streaming down the face.

Aww mate dinny. Add in the hangover and I'm getting emotional.

[LaMotta]

The goal being scored then taken away was the single biggest moment of the game. If it was technically or marginally offside, so be it, but the psychology of it destroyed us. We never looked like repeating it and they got the biggest lift, having been awful all game. It was like a shot of adrenalin for them.

Said that at the time how it gives the opposition such a huge boost and leaves us feeling deflated. Was similar with McTominays non goal v Spain. Pre Var a goal gets ruled out immediately and the psychological effect on both teams isnt as big as a result.
.

[B.H.F.C]

Aww mate dinny. Add in the hangover and I'm getting emotional.

At least he can’t say he wasn’t warned. Had a good day running about inside and outside the pub with his pals thinking he was the big man. Then the game happens. Gutting.

[Northernhibee]

The line on Boyle appears to be drawn from his elbow - not a legal part of his body - but it also doesn’t look like the Aberdeen players line is taken from the elbow.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Not sure it it would work but you would think a trackside camera running the length of the pitch either side could help with this.

The two cameras aligned would pinpoint whether offside or not

[Speedy]

Its clear and obvious for issues that aren't factual.

Offside is factual.

Not sure offside is 100% factual. You either are or aren't closer to the goals at any point in time. But there will be an element of subjectivity on deciding when the pass was played. A frame/split second can make all the difference.

[LewysGot2]

Not sure it it would work but you would think a trackside camera running the length of the pitch either side could help with this.

The two cameras aligned would pinpoint whether offside or not

Works in athletics but people only ever run in one plane, one direction...so not sure how it'd work in football where players can move 360.

[MKHIBEE]

Why?
Because Rangers seldom beat Hibs at Hampden

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

The goal being scored then taken away was the single biggest moment of the game. If it was technically or marginally offside, so be it, but the psychology of it destroyed us. We never looked like repeating it and they got the biggest lift, having been awful all game. It was like a shot of adrenalin for them.

You are right. The disallowed goal sucked the life out of us and they got a massive morale boost out of nothing. Mental.

[Waxy]

If that was Rangers it wouldnt have been called offside

[Glory Lurker]

Works in athletics but people only ever run in one plane, one direction...so not sure how it'd work in football where players can move 360.

Not disagreeing but offside is the equivalent of a photo finish. It looks like Boyle's positioning has been worked out from a camera a good bit in front of him. It's impossible surely to align his upper body with the Aberdeen defender's unless the photo is taken directly along the line.

[Eyrie]

If that was Rangers it wouldnt have been called offside

Sevco would also have got the penalty that wasn't even looked at.

[LewysGot2]

Not disagreeing but offside is the equivalent of a photo finish. It looks like Boyle's positioning has been worked out from a camera a good bit in front of him. It's impossible surely to align his upper body with the Aberdeen defender's unless the photo is taken directly along the line.

Just not sure how camera tech along the touch line would work...or how the linesmen don't interfere with its placing. Would have to be suspended in the air or run along the roof?

[Glory Lurker]

Just not sure how camera tech along the touch line would work...or how the linesmen don't interfere with its placing. Would have to be suspended in the air or run along the roof?

Oh, agree 100%. What I'm trying to say is that the VAR last night was guess work.

[LewysGot2]

Oh, agree 100%. What I'm trying to say is that the VAR last night was guess work.

Indeed, and if it takes 4 mins then it can't be clear - so the referees judgement should stand. Absolutely changed the whole direction of the game, not least the delay...

We're ruining the game further, not improving it, the way it's being mishandled in our competitions

[Eyrie]

Just not sure how camera tech along the touch line would work...or how the linesmen don't interfere with its placing. Would have to be suspended in the air or run along the roof?

I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to have an AI solution that automatically draws a line directly across the pitch. Match that with the deepest part of a defender and the decision is clear.

[147lothian]

It's not that var didn't look at the penalties. Everything gets checked, they just didn't send it to the referee to check. If it's given on field by Beaton though I highly doubt var overturns the decision.

This is actually my point, if Beaton had pointed to the spot, for Vente's shot touching a hand and when the goalie spilling the ball and bringing down Vente, it would have went to VAR and have been looked at in slow motion and there would have been no way these two penalties would have been overturned. So I blame Beaton.

[wookie70]

I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to have an AI solution that automatically draws a line directly across the pitch. Match that with the deepest part of a defender and the decision is clear.

That is what I am hoping will happen. Perhaps some sort of markers down the side of the pitch so that lines are proven to be parallel to goal line, AI to draw the two lines based on the current rules. The final decision should be mathematical like the goal line technology.

[Carheenlea]

If that was Rangers it wouldnt have been called offside


Sevco would also have got the penalty that wasn't even looked at.

100%

It’s just a sad matter of fact that some clubs have to work that bit harder or do a bit more than others in order to prevail.

Hearts will experience the same today. They’ll need to be way better than Rangers if they are to win. If it’s tight, Rangers will hold the advantage.

[Stanton Spence]

I genuinely don’t understand why people or fans still want this VAR what happened today is happening in multiple games in every league that has it and it’s the same arguments every week just a different game
I was all for var especially for offsides and goal line technology but today proves they still can’t get it right
They have basically took being level with the defender now out the game because they feel they need to make a decision
I wish it was scrapped but I think it’s here to stay sadly

[soul_driver]

That is what I am hoping will happen. Perhaps some sort of markers down the side of the pitch so that lines are proven to be parallel to goal line, AI to draw the two lines based on the current rules. The final decision should be mathematical like the goal line technology.

A very good idea and a simple solution. At least we'd then know the line is accurate. Would rather we binned VAR completely but that's not going to happen after they spent all that money on it.

[Ryan91]

Indeed, and if it takes 4 mins then it can't be clear - so the referees judgement should stand. Absolutely changed the whole direction of the game, not least the delay...

We're ruining the game further, not improving it, the way it's being mishandled in our competitions

4+ minutes to determine whether a player is offside or not just reeks of over-officiating the game and looking for the one frame that gives the best chance to over turn it.

Offside VAR reviews ought to be sorted within 2 minutes at most, but it's unlikely to happen.

Though worth noting that if it had been Rangers or Celtic that scored that goal yesterday there's not a chance they overturn it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure it it would work but you would think a trackside camera running the length of the pitch either side could help with this.

The two cameras aligned would pinpoint whether offside or not

I was thinking about the same, only need one opposite the linesman.

[Moulin Yarns]

That is what I am hoping will happen. Perhaps some sort of markers down the side of the pitch so that lines are proven to be parallel to goal line, AI to draw the two lines based on the current rules. The final decision should be mathematical like the goal line technology.

A check mark every 10m from the half way line?

[Islington Hibs]

This was a game that was ruined by VAR. If there was no VAR there the Boyle goal stands, IF it was offside it could only have been a micrometer. Two penalty calls, one for Handball from the Vente shot, the second one when their goalkeeper loses the ball and brings down the Hibs player, these calls never went to VAR. VAR would have most likely have gave both penalties because VAR looks at everything in slow motion.

100% agree. It ruins the game. Much prefer that there was a decent game flow with the referee making the decision. Sure sometimes he gets it wrong but VARs a joke. It too makes numerous mistakes, is arbitrary in what it examines (ie not our penalty claims) and has a huge psychological impact on the outcome.

Frankly if Aberdeen had scored under those circumstances while I would have been delighted I would still argue the same. Scrap VAR please/ it’s a bad joke.

[HarpOnHibee]

I genuinely don’t understand why people or fans still want this VAR what happened today is happening in multiple games in every league that has it and it’s the same arguments every week just a different game
I was all for var especially for offsides and goal line technology but today proves they still can’t get it right
They have basically took being level with the defender now out the game because they feel they need to make a decision
I wish it was scrapped but I think it’s here to stay sadly

So is the issue VAR? Or is it that they can't/don't want to get it right?

[Kato]

So is the issue VAR? Or is it that they can't/don't want to get it right?The latter. VAR isn't biased or able to make decisions.

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[HarpOnHibee]

The latter. VAR isn't biased or able to make decisions.

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Which means that without VAR we still ultimately run into the same issues. The linesman never put his flag up for the Boyle goal, because they're instructed to leave it to VAR. But who wants to hazard a bet that he would have put the flag up had VAR not been in place? Resulting in the same outcome anyway.

[Greenbeard]

A check mark every 10m from the half way line?
Or every 5m. Could double-up as throw-in sectors to stop the thrower-in stealing yards.

[Stanton Spence]

So is the issue VAR? Or is it that they can't/don't want to get it right?

I think it’s more down to the frustration at the way it’s being used than the idea of VAR itself
I’m not technical wizard but surely there’s a more defined way for offside decisions?
It’s the part where who decides when the split millisecond the ball goes forward is not definite enough and as for these lines they could be at different angles etc or put up just after the initial pass. It was brought out to help eliminate human error but it’s not doing so


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[Kato]

Or every 5m. Could double-up as throw-in sectors to stop the thrower-in stealing yards.Great idea which would make a few things clearer. Prepare yourself for it never to happen and if it happens elsewhere it won't in Scotland.

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[HarpOnHibee]

I think it’s more down to the frustration at the way it’s being used than the idea of VAR itself
I’m not technical wizard but surely there’s a more defined way for offside decisions?
It’s the part where who decides when the split millisecond the ball goes forward is not definite enough and as for these lines they could be at different angles etc or put up just after the initial pass. It was brought out to help eliminate human error but it’s not doing so


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As long as there are human involvements over the decisions, human "error" will continue to occur. They will never remove human involvement from these things, because they want these "errors" to occur.

[Stanton Spence]

As long as there are human involvements over the decisions, human "error" will continue to occur. They will never remove human involvement from these things, because they want these "errors" to occur.

I also think there’s now some referees waiting on VAR to make a decision when pre VAR the same referees would have giving a decision themselves and occasionally var doesn’t and then the referee will doubt himself and play on
As someone as said on the thread they have spent fortunes on it so it’s here to stay so I just hope it improves and you would think it would

[greenginger]

The latter. VAR isn't biased or able to make decisions.

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But someone has to choose the frame when they consider the pass to be made.

That choice has huge implications on close calls like yesterday .Choose the frame when Fish’s foot first connects with the ball and Boyle is onside.

[Kato]

But someone has to choose the frame when they consider the pass to be made.

That choice has huge implications on close calls like yesterday .Choose the frame when Fish’s foot first connects with the ball and Boyle is onside.Someone has to choose, I know. Someone from the cabal that officiates Scottish football.

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[Victor]

Which means that without VAR we still ultimately run into the same issues. The linesman never put his flag up for the Boyle goal, because they're instructed to leave it to VAR. But who wants to hazard a bet that he would have put the flag up had VAR not been in place? Resulting in the same outcome anyway.

That’s a good point, but I have a feeling that he didn’t think it was offside, or surely he would have told Beaton that he thought it was. If he had then it wouldn’t have taken 4 minutes to reach a decision. From viewing it on TV Beaton didn’t have a clue whether it was on or off and relied on the VAR ref to make the decision, with no input from the linesman.


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[jakedance]

My solution is thicker lines, if they overlap at all you’re onside. The rules need to favour the attacking team and reintroduce the concept that being level with the last defender is onside.

Not even checking the penalty appeal is a disgrace.

[neil7908]

My solution is thicker lines, if they overlap at all you’re onside. The rules need to favour the attacking team and reintroduce the concept that being level with the last defender is onside.

Not even checking the penalty appeal is a disgrace.

Something like this is the answer for me.

Simply put, they need to update the rules for 2023. Offside was not designed for a game that's as fast as it is now, has as much money riding on the outcome, and crucially, for a time with VAR checking in minute detail.

VAR is here to stay - the laws of the game need updated to reflect that.

[LaMotta]

That’s a good point, but I have a feeling that he didn’t think it was offside, or surely he would have told Beaton that he thought it was. If he had then it wouldn’t have taken 4 minutes to reach a decision. From viewing it on TV Beaton didn’t have a clue whether it was on or off and relied on the VAR ref to make the decision, with no input from the linesman.


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They are all wired up with mics etc so the linesman can speak to the ref.

[Victor]

They are all wired up with mics etc so the linesman can speak to the ref.

I know, but I don’t think the linesman was contributing!


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[BoomtownHibees]

I know, but I don’t think the linesman was contributing!


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He wouldn’t contribute if he thought it was onside at the time. No sure what you expected him to get involved in

[Sprouleflyer]

4+ minutes to determine whether a player is offside or not just reeks of over-officiating the game and looking for the one frame that gives the best chance to over turn it.

Offside VAR reviews ought to be sorted within 2 minutes at most, but it's unlikely to happen.

Though worth noting that if it had been Rangers or Celtic that scored that goal yesterday there's not a chance they overturn it.

Should there be a time limit with var for goal decisions? 3 minutes from the point of the incident. If they can’t make a decision within that allotted time then on field decision stands. Waiting 4 + minutes for the var assistants to draw lines to make the is it or isn’t it offside decision is killing the game. The allotted time can be extended if the ref is called over to the monitor…..would this work better?

[Victor]

He wouldn’t contribute if he thought it was onside at the time. No sure what you expected him to get involved in

Which was my original point. I don’t think the linesman thought he was offside. This decision would appear to have been made solely by VAR, which makes it more frustrating as they took four minutes to decide and even then it’s not conclusive.


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[LaMotta]

I know, but I don’t think the linesman was contributing!


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He wouldn’t contribute if he thought it was onside at the time. No sure what you expected him to get involved in

Exactly - no need for him to contribute. VAR is there to take the pressure off Linesmen in offside decisions.

[Baader]

My solution is thicker lines, if they overlap at all you’re onside. The rules need to favour the attacking team and reintroduce the concept that being level with the last defender is onside.

Not even checking the penalty appeal is a disgrace.

Think the Eridivise use thicker lines. FIFA didn't want them to.

The accepted margin of movement involving a player running at speed between frames is too much to be drawing fine lines. VAR operates at 50 frames per second.

It's an absolute nonsense.

[h185forever]

I thought that idea of VAR was to correct “obvious” mistakes or omissions by the referee.

If after 4-5 minutes they are still trying to decide if it offside then I would argue it’s not an “obvious” mistake, onfield decision should stand. They should a set time, say 90 seconds, and if no decision by VAR, onfield decision stands.

Penalty was more of an issue for me.

guess what !.. the **** just got a penalty for the one we were robbed of.

[jeffers]

Agree with the time limit chat. If they can’t make a decision within two minutes then it’s not obviously offside. In fact I’d apply that to all VAR decisions.

[LewysGot2]

I thought that idea of VAR was to correct “obvious” mistakes or omissions by the referee.

.

Not re offside. Every goal is checked and "getting it right" is the priority. Regardless of clear and obvious.

[Rumble de Thump]

The issue of VAR was always going to be that, one way or another, the same group of corrupt officials were still going to be making the decisons. Also, before it was introduced we were told it would only be used for clear and obvious errors. That would have been fine. But as soon as it was introduced that idea went out the window. Spending minutes agonising over different angles, dozens of slow motion replays, millimetres...at that point a decision is obviously going to be subjective so don't even bother. If fans knew it was goig to be so badly misused as is happening now then they wouldn't have wanted it.

[BoomtownHibees]

Which was my original point. I don’t think the linesman thought he was offside. This decision would appear to have been made solely by VAR, which makes it more frustrating as they took four minutes to decide and even then it’s not conclusive.


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If he thought it was offside he would have put his flag up after the goal was scored. He didn’t so of course it was the VAR official and him alone that decided it was no goal

[Victor]

If he thought it was offside he would have put his flag up after the goal was scored. He didn’t so of course it was the VAR official and him alone that decided it was no goal

Agree. Although even he wasn’t sure………….for 4 minutes!


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[Moulin Yarns]

Which means that without VAR we still ultimately run into the same issues. The linesman never put his flag up for the Boyle goal, because they're instructed to leave it to VAR. But who wants to hazard a bet that he would have put the flag up had VAR not been in place? Resulting in the same outcome anyway.

Which begs the question, what are linesmen actually doing?

[Kato]

Which begs the question, what are linesmen actually doing?Cheering the Rangers goals today.

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[LaMotta]

Which begs the question, what are linesmen actually doing?

There to assist the ref on thrown in, corner and foul decisions as they previously did.

[Moulin Yarns]

guess what !.. the **** just got a penalty for the one we were robbed of.

That's called correcting yesterday's mistake, these things even themselves out over a season, dontcha know!!!

[Sprouleflyer]

Which means that without VAR we still ultimately run into the same issues. The linesman never put his flag up for the Boyle goal, because they're instructed to leave it to VAR. But who wants to hazard a bet that he would have put the flag up had VAR not been in place? Resulting in the same outcome anyway.

If the keeper saved Boyle’s effort and ball went out for a corner, would the Lino have raised the flag? So why not just raise the flag anyway once the ball hit the net? Var would still have checked anyway. And if the Lino thought he was onside and keeper saved conceding a corner, the corner would not have been checked by var and Hibs would have benefited by having a corner.

My own thoughts are var is not the clear cut decision maker that the governing bodies think it is.

[Glory Lurker]

None of the Aberdeen defenders or their keeper claimed offside.

[MWHIBBIES]

Arsenal calling out yesterday's poor refereeing performance in their match. It can be done @hibs

[Kato]

https://i.ibb.co/N3tK2P3/Screenshot-20231106-010844-Art-Flow.jpg


Half way line straight, offside line curved?

As an aside do you think Scottish football makes you paranoid or are you entitled to be?

[Donegal Hibby]

Arsenal calling out yesterday's poor refereeing performance in their match. It can be done @hibs

:faf:

[Criswell]

There was no way that they were ever going to allow that goal to stand. They spent 4 minutes trying to find a non-existant angle to justify disallowing it. Horrible shower. VAR is a cheats charter.

[greenbelly]

Agreed that 5 mins pissin about to make their decision is OTT.

Reckon even 2 mins, as some are suggesting, is too much.

I reckon for 3 professionals, looking at video footage, ability to stop, rewind, freezeframe, same as the TV producers have at their disposal, should mean they can all make their good / no good call, within 60 secs of the incident. Think of speed chess players hitting their clock. If they haven't hit their green / light red light in those 60 secs, then the decision goes in favour of the attacker.

Maybe for cases where they're actually looking at more than one incident in a passage of play, that should be communicated to the ref, and ideally relayed to the big screens too, just so players and fans are aware of what's going on. Not leaving folks scratchin their heads as to why it takes 3 morons, 5 mins to all come to a decision.

[Musselbound]

The issue of VAR was always going to be that, one way or another, the same group of corrupt officials were still going to be making the decisons. Also, before it was introduced we were told it would only be used for clear and obvious errors. That would have been fine. But as soon as it was introduced that idea went out the window. Spending minutes agonising over different angles, dozens of slow motion replays, millimetres...at that point a decision is obviously going to be subjective so don't even bother. If fans knew it was goig to be so badly misused as is happening now then they wouldn't have wanted it.

Are you suggesting the officials are corrupt in favour of Aberdeen or just biased against Hibs?

[kiwihibby]

Ever since Hibs complained about doubtful refereeing a few years ago they appear to be very harsh in their treatment to the club.

[Skol]

At the game I called it offside. The pictures without the lines to me also look offside. The addition of lines though brings in all the doubt. But it is those lines they have used to make the decision. It was the length of time taken though and if they can’t decide in 60’seconds then the decision goes in favour of the attacker.

[DinkyTwo]

Are you suggesting the officials are corrupt in favour of Aberdeen or just biased against Hibs?I don't think it's quite as organised as that. Sure, I think in some cases officials will have their preferences and their bias shines through in the decisions that they make, especially for borderline cases.

More often than not though, like the McTominay goal vs Spain, I think we are seeing officials stubbornly double down and desperately try to find an angle that justifies whatever their initial thoughts were.

The length it takes to come to these decisions suggests that a lot of manual messing around is involved. That to me says that the technology can't accurately measure what the officials are trying to prove. In this case, considering the height of each player, their depth on the pitch, the position of the camera and the player's body angle, is the top of the attacker's shoulder beyond where the top of the defender's shoulder would be, if they were both touching the ground. That simply is not an easy calculation to make and one that isn't possible by manually dragging lines about a screen.



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[Danderhall Hibs]

Which means that without VAR we still ultimately run into the same issues. The linesman never put his flag up for the Boyle goal, because they're instructed to leave it to VAR. But who wants to hazard a bet that he would have put the flag up had VAR not been in place? Resulting in the same outcome anyway.

They don’t wait for VAR to make a decision they wait until the player touches the ball before they flag - that’s how we have so many folk complaining about the late flags every week.

[nonshinyfinish]

They don’t wait for VAR to make a decision they wait until the player touches the ball before they flag - that’s how we have so many folk complaining about the late flags every week.

Yep. In this case, if the linesman thought it was offside he would have put his flag up after it hit the net, the ref would initially signal no goal, and VAR would check whether the offside was right.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yep. In this case, if the linesman thought it was offside he would have put his flag up after it hit the net, the ref would initially signal no goal, and VAR would check whether the offside was right.

The misinformation and understanding of what VAR is there for is as big a problem as the referees imo.

[Callum_62]

I still can't for the life of me understand why it took 5 mins and looking at the VAR images with the lines provided Boyle is well offside

If it was so clear cut, why did it take 5 mins?

What were they doing for 5 mins when the still image makes it look like a fairly clear offside?

I can only think the angle there were trying to work with was making it much harder to get right



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[Paulie Walnuts]

I still can't for the life of me understand why it took 5 mins and looking at the VAR images with the lines provided Boyle is well offside

If it was so clear cut, why did it take 5 mins?

What were they doing for 5 mins when the still image makes it look like a fairly clear offside?

I can only think the angle there were trying to work with was making it much harder to get right



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Wondered the same.

I’m fairly comfortable with him being offside, I thought at the time he was off and from looking at the replays I think the correct call has been made.

That being said, VAR shows him as being quite clearly offside. Unless they don’t trust the system, which makes the whole thing a farce in itself, then I can’t see why that took so long.

[Rumble de Thump]

Are you suggesting the officials are corrupt in favour of Aberdeen or just biased against Hibs?

Nope. I'm acknowledging that they are corrupt. Who their decisions will favour and why would be for them to explain but don't expect them to do that until they hit the after dinner circuit in a few decades.

[LaMotta]

They don’t wait for VAR to make a decision they wait until the player touches the ball before they flag - that’s how we have so many folk complaining about the late flags every week.

Post VAR introduction they wait for the passage of play to end before flagging, rather than wait for the player to touch the ball ( unless it's blatantly offside).

[JimBHibees]

Suppose one of the other queries is why was there only 7 mins injury time when this huge delay for Boyle goal, many subs, red card Boyle injury, two goal celebrations. Should have been abt 10 minimum you would have thought. Last game we had Beaton he only gave us 3 mins v Dundee when should have been much more. Ironically Rangers had 9 mins last week v Hearts.

[wookie70]

The lines aren't straight or at the right angle?

https://x.com/SirNotTomFarmer/status/1720947508883701876?s=20 They are at right angles but perspective comes into play. I looked at a larger image of teh lines and they are poker straight. Don't use your eyes use a straight edge. The crown on the pitch probably explains them looking curved.

[Kato]

They are at right angles but perspective comes into play. I looked at a larger image of teh lines and they are poker straight. Don't use your eyes use a straight edge. The crown on the pitch probably explains them looking curved.What kind of poker do you use?

https://i.ibb.co/N3tK2P3/Screenshot-20231106-010844-Art-Flow.jpg

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[greenlex]

27358All these railway tracks are bullet straight and in line. All 4 of them.
What kind of poker do you use?

https://i.ibb.co/N3tK2P3/Screenshot-20231106-010844-Art-Flow.jpg

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[Kato]

27358And?

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[Kato]

https://i.ibb.co/YBg4LqL/artflow-202311061330.jpg

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[wookie70]

And?

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And teh lines are both straight, parallel to each other and at right angles to the touchline. It might not look that way but that is how perspective and the vanishing point works. I dare say Father Ted would say the gap between the lines was far away

[snedzuk]

https://i.ibb.co/N3tK2P3/Screenshot-20231106-010844-Art-Flow.jpg


Half way line straight, offside line curved?

As an aside do you think Scottish football makes you paranoid or are you entitled to be?

If Fish had the ball at his feet in this frame, 4 of the 5 Aberdeen defenders wouldnt be running back to their goal. So the ball is in the air at this point and the decision should be made on a few seconds prior.

[Kato]

If Fish had the ball at his feet in this frame, 4 of the 5 Aberdeen defenders wouldnt be running back to their goal. So the ball is in the air at this point and the decision should be made on a few seconds prior.It's the official var photo .

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[Paulie Walnuts]

If Fish had the ball at his feet in this frame, 4 of the 5 Aberdeen defenders wouldnt be running back to their goal. So the ball is in the air at this point and the decision should be made on a few seconds prior.

Not sure about that.

Obviously without seeing the ball it’s impossible to say but just because they’re making a move backwards it doesn’t mean that Fish has already released the ball. Players will make runs, both offensively and defensively before the ball is released all the time.

[Kato]

And teh lines are both straight, parallel to each other and at right angles to the touchline. It might not look that way but that is how perspective and the vanishing point works. I dare say Father Ted would say the gap between the lines was far away

The half way line comes out straight.

The line superimposed over the VAR line is touching the VAR line at either end but it bellys out in the middle. Perspective doesn't work that way. 50% of my work is on CAD software so I'm pretty familiar as to how perspective works. Perspective doesn't create a curved line. Lines towards vanishing points don't curve.

The VAR line isn't straight but the halfway line is.

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[Paulie Walnuts]

Seeing the debate going on between Kato and Wookie makes me think it maybe wasn’t all that ridiculous that we waited so long for a decision :greengrin

[worcesterhibby]

It was on. We were cheated, Simple.

27360

[wookie70]

I just drew a line(faint line in centre) on the orange offside line using Photoshop. The line I drew was drawn with two single points either end. The line is straight as far as I can see and the small file size allows. That small file size and the fact it would have been saved a few times mean the pixels will have been added and subtracted when saving. It is straight though as far as I can see. He is still offside. The only thing that I am not sure about is how accurate the line is from his shoulder to the pitch but in this case I don't think it matters as he is off by a fair way

27362

[flash]

I just drew a line(faint line in centre) on the orange offside line using Photoshop. The line I drew was drawn with two single points either end. The line is straight as far as I can see and the small file size allows. That small file size and the fact it would have been saved a few times mean the pixels will have been added and subtracted when saving. It is straight though as far as I can see. He is still offside. The only thing that I am not sure about is how accurate the line is from his shoulder to the pitch but in this case I don't think it matters as he is off by a fair way

27362

I must be going mad. According to that orange line he is level at worst with the guy at the top of the picture.

[nonshinyfinish]

I just drew a line(faint line in centre) on the orange offside line using Photoshop. The line I drew was drawn with two single points either end. The line is straight as far as I can see and the small file size allows. That small file size and the fact it would have been saved a few times mean the pixels will have been added and subtracted when saving. It is straight though as far as I can see. He is still offside. The only thing that I am not sure about is how accurate the line is from his shoulder to the pitch but in this case I don't think it matters as he is off by a fair way

27362

The orange line isn't VAR's offside line, it's another line added to illustrate that the VAR line (the edge of the dark section) appears curved.

[BoomtownHibees]

I just drew a line(faint line in centre) on the orange offside line using Photoshop. The line I drew was drawn with two single points either end. The line is straight as far as I can see and the small file size allows. That small file size and the fact it would have been saved a few times mean the pixels will have been added and subtracted when saving. It is straight though as far as I can see. He is still offside. The only thing that I am not sure about is how accurate the line is from his shoulder to the pitch but in this case I don't think it matters as he is off by a fair way

27362

The actual offside line is the dark line. The orange line has been added to show the actual line isn’t straight

[weecounty hibby]

See when you need to use the latest gadgetry, throw in sone if the most complex quadratic equations known to man, use a wee bit of mathematical physics aligned with some quantum dynamics then you just know that this is all bull****. Its not offside, football is about scoring goals, the benefit if the doubt should be with the attacking team and we need to stop looking for ways to disallow goals. And yes, I'd say the same if ut was against us. VAR is an absolute ****show and only football could get it so wrong

[flash]

The actual offside line is the dark line. The orange line has been added to show the actual line isn’t straight

Isn't he onside either way? The guy at the top is at worst level.

[BoomtownHibees]

Isn't he onside either way? The guy at the top is at worst level.

The point I was making is that the orange line shows that the actual VAR line isn’t straight

To your point I agree. I think the VAR line is drawn against the wrong defender

[gbhibby]

Not against VAR, but there is a number of problems with it. I have seen quite a number of pictures of offsides where the ball is shown at least 3 to 4 feet away from the last touch o
f the player making the pass. This is a lazy
approach by the VAR operatives. To get a true and accurate indication you need to have a line drawn at the player playing the ball as well.There is too much distortion on the image of the ball. The VAR operatives should have the ability to roll back frame by frame. Also the cameras for VAR need to be the highest definition possible as there are huge picture distortion and motion capture. Offside is made up of two parts so it is important that both end of the incidents are checked and verified.

[greenlex]

Rather than scrap VAR we should just scrap offside. Better still going back to the old dry burgh cup lines on the pitch and the offside rule adjustment in place then.

[DIXIHIBS]

Rather than scrap VAR we should just scrap offside. Better still going back to the old dry burgh cup lines on the pitch and the offside rule adjustment in place then.

Would that not just move the offside argument further up the pitch? The offside rule causes so much argument/ controversy i wonder how it would work if it was scrapped all together.

[wookie70]

The half way line comes out straight.

The line superimposed over the VAR line is touching the VAR line at either end but it bellys out in the middle. Perspective doesn't work that way. 50% of my work is on CAD software so I'm pretty familiar as to how perspective works. Perspective doesn't create a curved line. Lines towards vanishing points don't curve.

The VAR line isn't straight but the halfway line is.

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I get what you are talking about now. The orange line was straight but the offside line bellied out. I couldn't see that as the quality was so poor. Here is a screenshot taken straight from the TV coverage with two lines I have added yellow and white. Both original lines seem to bellow out equally. Not sure why that would be but still convinced he is offside. Hard to trust technology that can't draw a straight line though.

27363

[LaMotta]

Someone like Ruud Van Nistelrooy who played on the shoulder of defenders would have had about a third of his career goals ruled out if he'd been playing in VAR times. Its a ridiculous thought five years ago that the goal from Boyle would ever be ruled out.

[wookie70]

Someone like Ruud Van Nistelrooy who played on the shoulder of defenders would have had about a third of his career goals ruled out if he'd been playing in VAR times. Its a ridiculous thought five years ago that the goal from Boyle would ever be ruled out. It would have been ruled out by linesman a percentage of the time and they would have got it wrong more often than VAR does. That doesn't mean I don't want to see the back of VAR. Boyles goal is the first goal I can ever remember not celebrating. I had no doubt he was off from my viewpoint and therefore thought it would be ruled out. At that point I think my original views on VAR changed. If you don't celebrate a goal that puts your team in the lead at Hampden then something is badly wrong. I think VAR should be shelved for offside until AI can do it and the decision is pretty much instant

[superfurryhibby]

Looks like Boyle was level, at worst to me. HTF can they not get these decisions right, they must have cameras on either side of the field or technology that takes into account camera angles.

I was debating offside with my laddie. It should be based on the feet position, not any part of body. Either way, benefit of the doubt should be with the attacking team, that doesn't seem to have happened here.

[LaMotta]

It would have been ruled out by linesman a percentage of the time and they would have got it wrong more often than VAR does. That doesn't mean I don't want to see the back of VAR. Boyles goal is the first goal I can ever remember not celebrating. I had no doubt he was off from my viewpoint and therefore thought it would be ruled out. At that point I think my original views on VAR changed. If you don't celebrate a goal that puts your team in the lead at Hampden then something is badly wrong. I think VAR should be shelved for offside until AI can do it and the decision is pretty much instant

I dont think they would have though, because you just had to have a part of your body in line with defender to be onside. Its with intro of Var that the opposite is true. It was much harder to be offside pre var.

[greenlex]

It would have been ruled out by linesman a percentage of the time and they would have got it wrong more often than VAR does. That doesn't mean I don't want to see the back of VAR. Boyles goal is the first goal I can ever remember not celebrating. I had no doubt he was off from my viewpoint and therefore thought it would be ruled out. At that point I think my original views on VAR changed. If you don't celebrate a goal that puts your team in the lead at Hampden then something is badly wrong. I think VAR should be shelved for offside until AI can do it and the decision is pretty much instant
I don’t get your logic. You saw it was offside so didn’t celebrate. You were correct and saved the disappointment. If you were wrong you could celebrate when the goals given. You would/should be even more delighted when given.
If you celebrated like the rest of us you’d be as gutted as the rest of us. Had it been given we’d all have celebrated twice. Don’t forget you get to celebrate a non goal on the back of seeing the opposition getting one chalked off that you wouldn’t have previously. There’s as many positives as negatives in the VAR offside calls or should I say if it’s used consistently and fairly.

[worcesterhibby]

I don’t get your logic. You saw it was offside so didn’t celebrate. You were correct and saved the disappointment. If you were wrong you could celebrate when the goals given. You would/should be even more delighted when given.
If you celebrated like the rest of us you’d be as gutted as the rest of us. Had it been given we’d all have celebrated twice. Don’t forget you get to celebrate a non goal on the back of seeing the opposition getting one chalked off that you wouldn’t have previously. There’s as many positives as negatives in the VAR offside calls or should I say if it’s used consistently and fairly.

He didn't see it was offside. He was onside. I've watched the footage 100 times. He's onside. VAR is utter bollocks.

[flash]

I get what you are talking about now. The orange line was straight but the offside line bellied out. I couldn't see that as the quality was so poor. Here is a screenshot taken straight from the TV coverage with two lines I have added yellow and white. Both original lines seem to bellow out equally. Not sure why that would be but still convinced he is offside. Hard to trust technology that can't draw a straight line though.

27363

Peak Scottish fitba to show him onside as conclusive proof he is offside.

[wookie70]

I don’t get your logic. You saw it was offside so didn’t celebrate. You were correct and saved the disappointment. If you were wrong you could celebrate when the goals given. You would/should be even more delighted when given.
If you celebrated like the rest of us you’d be as gutted as the rest of us. Had it been given we’d all have celebrated twice. Don’t forget you get to celebrate a non goal on the back of seeing the opposition getting one chalked off that you wouldn’t have previously. There’s as many positives as negatives in the VAR offside calls or should I say if it’s used consistently and fairly.

What was the point in celebrating when it was going to be chalked off. I wasn't alone quite a few round me(in line with Boyle in North) were the same. Not something I thought about just something that happened

[greenlex]

What was the point in celebrating when it was going to be chalked off. I wasn't alone quite a few round me(in line with Boyle in North) were the same. Not something I thought about just something that happened
None whatsoever but you would celebrate it if you were wrong when VAR confirm he’s onside.

[wookie70]

None whatsoever but you would celebrate it if you were wrong when VAR confirm he’s onside. I would but at no point did I think there was any chance of it being awarded

[ruthven_raiders]

Looks like Boyle was level, at worst to me. HTF can they not get these decisions right, they must have cameras on either side of the field or technology that takes into account camera angles.

I was debating offside with my laddie. It should be based on the feet position, not any part of body. Either way, benefit of the doubt should be with the attacking team, that doesn't seem to have happened here.

See quote below from this article:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/offside-fifa-arsene-wenger-rule-30371474

However, FIFA are set to tweak the offside law. Wenger's proposal will see that changed to the whole goal-scoring body of the player. This means that if any part of the body is behind the last defender, the attacker will remain onside.

[GreenCastle]

Watching the spurs game and they have various camera angle for VAR.

We only have 1 angle for the offside.

It’s so tinpot at times.

Incompetent officials making the Scottish game worse and I said this back when Duk dived and won the penalty last season.

[Skol]

What was the point in celebrating when it was going to be chalked off. I wasn't alone quite a few round me(in line with Boyle in North) were the same. Not something I thought about just something that happened

I was in the north in line and immediately thought it was offside. As it wasn’t flagged I celebrated but immediately after the celebrations stopped stated it was off and Var would change it.

[California-Hibs]

People can say we were this and that on Saturday and get angry, but the fact is we were cheated. It's that simple, no sour grapes, we were just cheated of a goal that was level and also a challenge on Vente that VAR absolutely should have looked at.

[Skol]

We were not cheated. Goal was offside. Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.

[flash]

We were not cheated. Goal was offside. Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.

It has been pretty conclusively, in my eyes at least, shown that the offside was level at worst.

[Silky]

Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.

We would have blamed Marshall for coming out like that and giving the officials a decision to make.

[degenerated]

We were not cheated. Goal was offside. Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.We have had to accept penalties given against us which were exactly like that

[Leithenhibby]

See quote below from this article:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/offside-fifa-arsene-wenger-rule-30371474

However, FIFA are set to tweak the offside law. Wenger's proposal will see that changed to the whole goal-scoring body of the player. This means that if any part of the body is behind the last defender, the attacker will remain onside.


I'm all for this change and can't come quick enough.....:aok:

[HFC 0-7]

See quote below from this article:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/offside-fifa-arsene-wenger-rule-30371474

However, FIFA are set to tweak the offside law. Wenger's proposal will see that changed to the whole goal-scoring body of the player. This means that if any part of the body is behind the last defender, the attacker will remain onside.

Will still have the same issue of lines being drawn to see if any part of the body is behind the defender. Unless the incident happens exactly in line with the bar camera we will end up with the lines drawn and an age to get to the decision.

[500miles]

We would have blamed Marshall for coming out like that and giving the officials a decision to make.

Marshall would be slated for the spill and the elbow on the attackers foot would be highlighted everywhere.

[basehibby]

It's the official var photo .

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Why the bendy line? Was their ruler broken???

[Paulie Walnuts]

Will still have the same issue of lines being drawn to see if any part of the body is behind the defender. Unless the incident happens exactly in line with the bar camera we will end up with the lines drawn and an age to get to the decision.

:agree:

By its very nature offside will always cause these issues as there’s always going to be two lines and whether they’re in line or not to be considered.

I’d much rather see Wengers version of offside played but it’ll do nothing to solve the problems with offsides.

[Callum_62]

Var said Boyle was off, fair enough

But until I hear what they were doing for 5 minutes I'm somewhat sceptical of it to be honest

He looks yards offside on the var photo which make more more sceptical of it based on the still with no lines and the fact it took them 5 minutes to come up with an offside that ended up being pretty clear (according to VAR)

Why did it take 5 minutes? What were they unsure of?

I'd love to hear the audio but I suspect that won't see the light of day

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[Kato]

Marshall would be slated for the spill and the elbow on the attackers foot would be highlighted everywhere....with a little circle around it.

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[LaMotta]

Var said Boyle was off, fair enough

But until I hear what they were doing for 5 minutes I'm somewhat sceptical of it to be honest

He looks yards offside on the var photo which make more more sceptical of it based on the still with no lines and the fact it took them 5 minutes to come up with an offside that ended up being pretty clear (according to VAR)

Why did it take 5 minutes? What were they unsure of?

I'd love to hear the audio but I suspect that won't see the light of day

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


Haven't seen any image where he looks yards offside. The official VAR still shows his shoulder being half a yard at most off.

The main think that needs explained is how they draw the lines from funny camera angles. Not sure there is anyway to categorically ensure those lines are straight. Looks/like they do it differently down South. Offside on Var can be just as subjective as other decisions, not the fact based decision that some people claim it is.

[greenginger]

Will still have the same issue of lines being drawn to see if any part of the body is behind the defender. Unless the incident happens exactly in line with the bar camera we will end up with the lines drawn and an age to get to the decision.

The biggest issue for me is the choice of frame chosen to draw the VAR lines.

Seemingly ,in England it’s the computer that identifies exactly when the pass is deemed to have been made.

Up here it’s the VAR operators who flick back and forward to decide the timing of the pass.

Ample opportunity for personal bias to come into play.

[soul_driver]

Haven't seen any image where he looks yards offside. The official VAR still shows his shoulder being half a yard at most off.

The main think that needs explained is how they draw the lines from funny camera angles. Not sure there is anyway to categorically ensure those lines are straight. Looks/like they do it differently down South. Offside on Var can be just as subjective as other decisions, not the fact based decision that some people claim it is.

Not only that but where they draw the lines too. The dotted line from Boyles shoulder appears to be in front of his shoulder whereas the Aberdeen defenders line is on top of his foot. Ball appears to have left Fish's foot already too.

[GreenCastle]

It’s only a matter of time before an incident happens in Scotland and someone asks for the audio.

I’m pretty certain it will be one of the the old firm who will ask for the audio in the near future to be released 100%.

Hibs should be asking to hear the audio for the offside decision - let them be transparent and let fans know what was discussed in that time frame.

[Callum_62]

Haven't seen any image where he looks yards offside. The official VAR still shows his shoulder being half a yard at most off.

The main think that needs explained is how they draw the lines from funny camera angles. Not sure there is anyway to categorically ensure those lines are straight. Looks/like they do it differently down South. Offside on Var can be just as subjective as other decisions, not the fact based decision that some people claim it is.Either way there was clear daylight between the lines

I'm not sure if it was the same image shown on viaplay at the time but I couldn't believe it when I seen it

It's enough daylight to question why it took 5 minutes that's for sure

Id love to hear the discussion on what was going on and why it took so long

It's not usual to take 5 minutes - I'm pretty sure melkersons leg hair being offside at Killie took less time than that and his was much tighter than what we are being shown for Boyle

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[number9dream]

Watching the spurs game and they have various camera angle for VAR.

We only have 1 angle for the offside.

It’s so tinpot at times.

Incompetent officials making the Scottish game worse and I said this back when Duk dived and won the penalty last season.


We have the cheapest possible option, which is understandable given the parlous financial condition of many top flight clubs. Six cameras minimum, but there must have been more at Hampden, so that's not an excuse.
The cameras must all be in roughly the same positions when it is done on a shoestring, yet the angles at Motherwell and Ross County in particular tend to be rather wonky. Maybe some pillars in the way or something...
Offside calls, even it was by a toe nail, were made very swiftly at the World Cup since all the cameras helped make the system semi-automated.
Of course, we could save money by ditching the whole thing and go back to refs and linesman making calls, but putting it all back in the box seems highly unlikely now.

[LaMotta]

Either way there was clear daylight between the lines

I'm not sure if it was the same image shown on viaplay at the time but I couldn't believe it when I seen it

It's enough daylight to question why it took 5 minutes that's for sure

Id love to hear the discussion on what was going on and why it took so long

It's not usual to take 5 minutes - I'm pretty sure melkersons leg hair being offside at Killie took less time than that and his was much tighter than what we are being shown for Boyle

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Yeah, ridiculous!

[LaMotta]

Not only that but where they draw the lines too. The dotted line from Boyles shoulder appears to be in front of his shoulder whereas the Aberdeen defenders line is on top of his foot. Ball appears to have left Fish's foot already too.

:agree:

[McGruber]

We were not cheated. Goal was offside. Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.

I don't believe the goal was offside. It's onside as far as I can see.

This notion that because we have VAR it is proven by that technology like an exact science. The VAR tech & images don't prove it either way.

The ball looks like an elongated blurred rugby ball at Fish's foot. The camera angle is not in line with play. The line to ground from shoulder is guess work. The dark line isn't straight.

Account from fans naked eye accounts saying they thought it was off or on from their vantage point don't prove either way.

What they have used doesn't prove whether he was off or on - just that it is guesswork, has to be given we don't have the tech to show it for certain.

Would also love to hear the audio on it, we never will.

Doubling down though - he was on... we wiz robbed

[flash]

To be honest I genuinely don't know if he was on or not.

What I do know is that none of the released images show that he was conclusively offside.

[Chorley Hibee]

To be honest I genuinely don't know if he was on or not.

What I do know is that none of the released images show that he was conclusively offside.

Exactly where I am, and in that instance, for the sake of the game, I'd always advocate the benefit of the doubt being with the attacker.

[basehibby]

We were not cheated. Goal was offside. Penalty was one we would not have accepted if given against us.
We absolutely DID have to accept an almost identical penalty being awarded against us vs same opposition last season at Pittodrie (Duc). As I recall that incident was subject to a lengthy VAR check - it was utterly farcical and indicative of either incompetence or cheating that no check was carried out at Hampden.

[Baader]

Nothing conclusive about the offside at all. Goal should have stood. Said before, VAR is a false science as the technology isn't there to be drawing fine lines and making such marginal calls like this.

The way it's being used is completely wrong.

[Ronniekirk]

I am with Monty on this one If it’s clear snd o buoys it shouldn’t tsken give minutes it’s as simple as that
Clubs need to looking for the guidelines given to var to be simple and clear and Striker needs to be given benefit of the doubt
The longer it takes it makes you think they are just looking at a different angle to call it offside
Having said all that the game was still there to win against 10 men and we shot ourselves in the foot yet again

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm all for this change and can't come quick enough.....:aok:

Me too, it will solve the majority of offsides right away, there will be the odd time where they will have to look closer but 99% of offsides will be decided in seconds.:top marks

[BoomtownHibees]

I am with Monty on this one If it’s clear snd o buoys it shouldn’t tsken give minutes it’s as simple as that
Clubs need to looking for the guidelines given to var to be simple and clear and Striker needs to be given benefit of the doubt
The longer it takes it makes you think they are just looking at a different angle to call it offside
Having said all that the game was still there to win against 10 men and we shot ourselves in the foot yet again

The general point is correct around how long it took etc however ‘clear and obvious’ is not taken in to account for offsides. It’s meant to be a “factual” decision

[Northernhibee]

The general point is correct around how long it took etc however ‘clear and obvious’ is not taken in to account for offsides. It’s meant to be a “factual” decision

When our VAR is the wish.com version and we’ve seen multiple contentious decisions, we don’t have the technology to make factual decisions. You can see from the one on Saturday that the ball is blurred and so it’s already been played, and in such a tight scenario that could be the difference between onside and offside. Killie away last season was the same.

[BoomtownHibees]

When our VAR is the wish.com version and we’ve seen multiple contentious decisions, we don’t have the technology to make factual decisions. You can see from the one on Saturday that the ball is blurred and so it’s already been played, and in such a tight scenario that could be the difference between onside and offside. Killie away last season was the same.

100% agree

[Northernhibee]

100% agree

If some clubs in the league can’t afford a suitable level of VAR the option comes down to either forcing them to run the expensive version and potentially see clubs going bust as they drop out of the league from costs being cut on the field, or scrapping it altogether.

The problem before VAR wasn’t referees making errors in getting marginal decisions wrong, it was questions of whether there is genuine impartiality. VAR exacerbates that, it doesn’t fix it.

Scrap VAR, let referees in the top flight go full time, and are appointed and scrutinised by a body independent of the SFA.

[Carheenlea]

The art of strikers playing on the shoulder of defenders while keeping level to keep onside is now redundant.

Basically just luck now or you have to be more cautious and sit a yard further back to be safe. Keeping level isn’t a thing any more.

Great for technophiles sitting in their homes studying lines and forensically examining footage desperately looking for things to overrule perfectly good goals. Good news for defensive football too.

Not such good news for traditionalist who enjoy exciting and attacking football.

[Skol]

The art of strikers playing on the shoulder of defenders while keeping level to keep onside is now redundant.

Basically just luck now or you have to be more cautious and sit a yard further back to be safe. Keeping level isn’t a thing any more.

Great for technophiles sitting in their homes studying lines and forensically examining footage desperately looking for things to overrule perfectly good goals. Good news for defensive football too.

Not such good news for traditionalist who enjoy exciting and attacking football.

That art is relatively new is it not as the offside rule has evolved over time where at one stage you had to be behind the defender?

[LaMotta]

That art is relatively new is it not as the offside rule has evolved over time where at one stage you had to be behind the defender?

That rule was introduced in 1990. So if by relatively new you mean 33 years ago then yes:greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

In the Dutch league I believe Ajax and PSV dupport the lesser clubs with finance to ensure they have grass pitches. Do we think that celtic and the Attilas could help out with BAR financially? You know, I'm sure they are desperate to make sure all decisions are given fairly. Yeah, I know..............

[SickBoy32]

The art of strikers playing on the shoulder of defenders while keeping level to keep onside is now redundant.

Basically just luck now or you have to be more cautious and sit a yard further back to be safe. Keeping level isn’t a thing any more.

Great for technophiles sitting in their homes studying lines and forensically examining footage desperately looking for things to overrule perfectly good goals. Good news for defensive football too.

Not such good news for traditionalist who enjoy exciting and attacking football.

Spot on, the baws burst unfortunately

Frightening to read that there are actually folk on here who think he was offside! Step away from the EPL forensic analysis please guys

[B.H.F.C]

The art of strikers playing on the shoulder of defenders while keeping level to keep onside is now redundant.

Basically just luck now or you have to be more cautious and sit a yard further back to be safe. Keeping level isn’t a thing any more.

Great for technophiles sitting in their homes studying lines and forensically examining footage desperately looking for things to overrule perfectly good goals. Good news for defensive football too.

Not such good news for traditionalist who enjoy exciting and attacking football.

Good summary. VAR is totally killing the flow of games and making people think twice about celebrating goals FFS. Neither of those things can be good for the game .

You look at the Spurs game last night, 21 extra minutes, constant stoppages. Nobody wants that surely.

They ultimately got to the right place with the calls in that game but we can all point to times where they don’t. Just let the guys on the pitch get on with it.