Boyle goal onside

[wookie70]

The biggest issue for me is the choice of frame chosen to draw the VAR lines.

Seemingly ,in England it’s the computer that identifies exactly when the pass is deemed to have been made.

Up here it’s the VAR operators who flick back and forward to decide the timing of the pass.

Ample opportunity for personal bias to come into play.

I brought this up before VAR came in. I don't know how many frames per second the footage is shot at but it is incredible how much movement there can be between frames. For me it is always going to be likely that the kick of the ball is between frames and in that case it should go back one frame. Everything should be done to make goals stand. For instance if the fps is 100 and Boyle is moving at 20 mph then each frame would be around 4 inches of movement for the whole body. Maybe more for a part of it. You can then double it if the footage is 50 frames a second and then it is likely the defenders are moving in the opposite direction too so even more potential for the wrong decision. That is all before they draw lines in a 3d space with limited points of reference. My view has always been that there should be a set of rules based on the margin of error the system has based on frame rates, anchor points etc etc. Once that is known that error rate is applied in favour of teh forward. The process is so secretive and that just leads to the accusations that it is biased. For me everything in Scottish Football is biased anyway so no reason to think VAR would be any different. It is one thing where AI might actually improve things assuming the The Rangers Chairman doesn't have a hand in the algorithm.

[Baader]

I brought this up before VAR came in. I don't know how many frames per second the footage is shot at but it is incredible how much movement there can be between frames. For me it is always going to be likely that the kick of the ball is between frames and in that case it should go back one frame. Everything should be done to make goals stand. For instance if the fps is 100 and Boyle is moving at 20 mph then each frame would be around 4 inches of movement for the whole body. Maybe more for a part of it. You can then double it if the footage is 50 frames a second and then it is likely the defenders are moving in the opposite direction too so even more potential for the wrong decision. That is all before they draw lines in a 3d space with limited points of reference. My view has always been that there should be a set of rules based on the margin of error the system has based on frame rates, anchor points etc etc. Once that is known that error rate is applied in favour of teh forward. The process is so secretive and that just leads to the accusations that it is biased. For me everything in Scottish Football is biased anyway so no reason to think VAR would be any different. It is one thing where AI might actually improve things assuming the The Rangers Chairman doesn't have a hand in the algorithm.

VAR operates at 50 fps. That's UHD. And yes accepted movement at speed between frames is too much to be drawing fine lines like that.

[wookie70]

VAR operates at 50 fps. That's UHD. And yes accepted movement at speed between frames is too much to be drawing fine lines like that. Thanks for that. 50fps means the margin for error is way too high for 50-50 decisions. Perhaps they should calculate the margin for error based on a player running forward and defenders stepping out. Make the width of the line the thickness of that margin of error for both attacker and last defender. If the lines touch the player is onside. If the lines have a gap showing the attacker is offside even taking the error into account then they are virtually flagged. As it is Fisher Price VAR causes as many issues as it solves.

[worcesterhibby]

Thanks for that. 50fps means the margin for error is way too high for 50-50 decisions. Perhaps they should calculate the margin for error based on a player running forward and defenders stepping out. Make the width of the line the thickness of that margin of error for both attacker and last defender. If the lines touch the player is onside. If the lines have a gap showing the attacker is offside even taking the error into account then they are virtually flagged. As it is Fisher Price VAR causes as many issues as it solves.

Maybe they should just scrap it

[wookie70]

Maybe they should just scrap it I'm beginning to think that too but it isn't going to happen so it needs to be quicker, more accurate and any margin for error in favour of the attacking team imo

[HFC 0-7]

I'm beginning to think that too but it isn't going to happen so it needs to be quicker, more accurate and any margin for error in favour of the attacking team imo

Scrap it for offsides but keep it for pen decisions, bad tackles, sendings offs etc.

[Skol]

That rule was introduced in 1990. So if by relatively new you mean 33 years ago then yes:greengrin

Yeah, thats new as in it happened after I started watching games back in the mid 70s.

[Helensburghhibs]

Good summary. VAR is totally killing the flow of games and making people think twice about celebrating goals FFS. Neither of those things can be good for the game .

You look at the Spurs game last night, 21 extra minutes, constant stoppages. Nobody wants that surely.

They ultimately got to the right place with the calls in that game but we can all point to times where they don’t. Just let the guys on the pitch get on with it.

Still matter of opinion tho.... For example i think stirling should have been punished for diving,, free kick against him means no pen, no red

[ruthven_raiders]

Maybe they should just scrap it

They are trialing a new orfisde, where the whole body has to be in front of last defender, arsene Wenger recommendation, so can only be offside if part of attacker clashes with defender

[Unseen work]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

[JimBHibees]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

Where you hearing that?

[SaulGoodman]

They are trialing a new orfisde, where the whole body has to be in front of last defender, arsene Wenger recommendation, so can only be offside if part of attacker clashes with defender

Problem with that is it means instead of drawing lines in front of the attacker to see if he’s offside they’ll be drawing lines behind him, can’t see it changing much tbh.

[Chorley Hibee]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

If that's in any way true (and I'm not suggesting otherwise) then Hibs should be all over this.

I'll not hold my breath.

[Unseen work]

If that's in any way true (and I'm not suggesting otherwise) then Hibs should be all over this.

I'll not hold my breath.

Unfortunately it is true, obviously can’t confirm how I know it.

Thing is I imagine the SFA would have some form of rationale to try explain it

[Kato]

"wasn't working properly"

Yeah, sounds legit.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[McGruber]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

Explains why a) it took so long and b) the lines look hand drawn, bent and not looking at the right angle. It was a guess, all this exact science guff is nonesense - Fish kicking what looks like a rugby ball aswell. Shafted.

[Stonewall]

Problem with that is it means instead of drawing lines in front of the attacker to see if he’s offside they’ll be drawing lines behind him, can’t see it changing much tbh.

Maybe make it so that if you have to draw a line to decide an offside then it’s not.

[JimBHibees]

"wasn't working properly"

Yeah, sounds legit.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Wasn't working properly is subtext for we made a mistake and are now covering our erse except of course nothing will be made public as per the secret squirrel ways of Scottish football. If genuinely wasn't working goal should have stood.

[Not In The Know]

Unfortunately it is true, obviously can’t confirm how I know it.

Thing is I imagine the SFA would have some form of rationale to try explain it

This can't be left to fade into nothing, an investigation must be announced.

[basehibby]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

That is utterly astonishing!
If the system was not working properly then the f***ing clowns should NOT have been using it. They are referees - not experts on trigonometry!

Nb - now the bendy lines make sense - couldny make this up- only in Scottish Football eh?!? What an absolute **** show!

[Moulin Yarns]

The camera they were meant to use wasn’t working correctly, hence why they used the one at a horrendous angle and essentially guessed

If so then the clubs should have been made aware before kick off. It's happened before.