The gaffer

[Hibernian Verse]

I don't think anyone is calling for his head. The chat is about the formation and he's played 442 in every game and it's clearly not working and showing no signs of doing so either.

He's come out and said he's not changing and there is little if any success of attacking 442 in over a decade which doesn't bode well for him.

I like a lot about him. He speaks well, he seems to have good leadership qualities and all I want him to do is bin the 442.

Re: the 4-4-2, I don't know where people are getting their info that no one plays it, and that there is little if any success playing.

Simeone uses it at Atletico, Emery has used it at Villa and Argentina won the World Cup playing it. It's not a 4-4-2 with the ball, it's more a 4-2-4 and it can morph into other formations during the game.

[J-C]

Re: the 4-4-2, I don't know where people are getting their info that no one plays it, and that there is little if any success playing.

Simeone uses it at Atletico, Emery has used it at Villa and Argentina won the World Cup playing it. It's not a 4-4-2 with the ball, it's more a 4-2-4 and it can morph into other formations during the game.

Our problem is squad depth, outside our top 11 the rest are poor to average and this is where the 442 fails, Tuesday was a prime example of that, also we have 3 top midfielders, one will set it out most games.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our problem is squad depth, outside our top 11 the rest are poor to average and this is where the 442 fails, Tuesday was a prime example of that, also we have 3 top midfielders, one will set it out most games.

Nothing to add except we were seriously weakened with the subs on tuesday, and a change of formation to make us stronger in midfield in my opinion would have been a much better thing to do than what Monty actually did.

[B.H.F.C]

Nothing to add except we were seriously weakened with the subs on tuesday, and a change of formation to make us stronger in midfield in my opinion would have been a much better thing to do than what Monty actually did.

To change shape would have meant another sub. Just bring on Newell for Jeggo, if you’re having to make a sub, instead of bringing on the far inferior player and the problem would have been avoided.

[Hibernian Verse]

Our problem is squad depth, outside our top 11 the rest are poor to average and this is where the 442 fails, Tuesday was a prime example of that, also we have 3 top midfielders, one will set it out most games.

Yep absolutely. He needs a couple of windows.

[blackpoolhibs]

To change shape would have meant another sub. Just bring on Newell for Jeggo, if you’re having to make a sub, instead of bringing on the far inferior player and the problem would have been avoided.

I said that yesterday, but he brought on Delf, so by doing that we needed a change in the system.

[JimBHibees]

We far from cruising. We were camped in our own half for most of the 2nd half hence the breakways.

We scored four goals in the half we were being dominated apparently plus Boyle missed a one on one. Suppose someone had to takeover your odd obsession with Nisbet. Bizarre take

[JimBHibees]

Nothing to add except we were seriously weakened with the subs on tuesday, and a change of formation to make us stronger in midfield in my opinion would have been a much better thing to do than what Monty actually did.

No doubt we were seriously weakened by the changes. Delferriere sub in particular made no sense.

[JimBHibees]

Killie we were hanging on at the end. Dundee created some tremendous chances and we had one shot on target on Tuesday.

All 3 fair results.

Killie and County we blew two goal leads against Dundee we missed numerous chances and should have won comfortably

[Libby Hibby]

There’s no debate that we should be 6 points better off under NM.

However, I like him, like his honesty and seems to have the ability to get players who many on here think are pish to play better.

I’m confident results will come.

[Winston Ingram]

Re: the 4-4-2, I don't know where people are getting their info that no one plays it, and that there is little if any success playing.

Simeone uses it at Atletico, Emery has used it at Villa and Argentina won the World Cup playing it. It's not a 4-4-2 with the ball, it's more a 4-2-4 and it can morph into other formations during the game.

442 is a horse for a course. It's used occasionally by a lot of teams. As for off-the-ball, most high-pressing teams will drop into that shape if they haven't won the ball back within a specific timescale.

Simeone has used it at Atletico, and it's usually against bigger teams in the Champions League when he's not expecting a lot of possession. He also uses plenty of others and his go-to right now is a back 3, just like he used at Celtic last week. Burnley used the exactly same approach and it kept them in the PL for nearly a decade.

Argentina didn't win the World Cup with it. They lost to Saudi and beat Croatia with it. They played a 433 for the rest of it with the exception of playing a 352 v the Dutch.

The difference is we are 442 every game, in and out of possession.

[Winston Ingram]

Killie and County we blew two goal leads against Dundee we missed numerous chances and should have won comfortably

Killie pumped us after Doidge went off. We got a goal against the run of play 2nd half but were inevitably pegged back.
Dundee missed 3 great chances v us.
We had 1 shot on target v Ross County.

[CapitalGreen]

442 is a horse for a course. It's used occasionally by a lot of teams. As for off-the-ball, most high-pressing teams will drop into that shape if they haven't won the ball back within a specific timescale.

Simeone has used it at Atletico, and it's usually against bigger teams in the Champions League when he's not expecting a lot of possession. He also uses plenty of others and his go-to right now is a back 3, just like he used at Celtic last week. Burnley used the exactly same approach and it kept them in the PL for nearly a decade.

Argentina didn't win the World Cup with it. They lost to Saudi and beat Croatia with it. They played a 433 for the rest of it with the exception of playing a 352 v the Dutch.

The difference is we are 442 every game, in and out of possession.

We don’t leave 2 up front out of possession though do we?

[Winston Ingram]

We don’t leave 2 up front out of possession though do we?

Absolutely.

[Heisenberg]

Killie pumped us after Doidge went off. We got a goal against the run of play 2nd half but were inevitably pegged back.
Dundee missed 3 great chances v us.
We had 1 shot on target v Ross County.

Still labouring this Dundee point I see. We had about 5 or 6 great chances against them. Should’ve pumped them.

[Since452]

Killie and County we blew two goal leads against Dundee we missed numerous chances and should have won comfortably

Montgomery has an incredible knack for not managing to win games that we really need to by hook or crook. Maloney also had the same knack.

[CapitalGreen]

Montgomery has an incredible knack for not managing to win games that we really need to by hook or crook. Maloney also had the same knack.

What games do what not need to win?

[500miles]

I think we'll stick with 4 4 2 until Montgomery has given the full squad an opportunity to adapt within his preferred system. After January he'll bring in some of own guys ( likely players who can move the ball quickly and a goalkeeper).

I think we might have a few surprise outgoings, good, senior players who maybe can't adapt to what is a very demanding system. If we get the right bodies in, we'll be worth the season ticket price.

[sauzeelegod]

Re: the 4-4-2, I don't know where people are getting their info that no one plays it, and that there is little if any success playing.

Simeone uses it at Atletico, Emery has used it at Villa and Argentina won the World Cup playing it. It's not a 4-4-2 with the ball, it's more a 4-2-4 and it can morph into other formations during the game.

Simeone hasn’t used it for about 2 years. He uses a 532/352 now.
Villa play 4231 and Argentina switched between 442 and 352 when winning the World Cup.

It’s an outdated system.
No team that wants to play attractive attacking football and have the ball uses it

[Donegal Hibby]

Monty’s recognised his errors, accepted responsibility and says he’ll learn from it.

Good enough for me.

True leader.

I want Monty to succeed at us though is he learning from his errors in the Ross county game and past games though? . My fear is he's not as he's totally unwilling to change the shape of the team to suit certain games or during games either. It will be 4-4-2 again against Aberdeen and every week after that ! . Hopefully I'm wrong though I think eventually this will lead to his downfall at us .

[TrinityHFC]

Yep absolutely. He needs a couple of windows.

We were pretty much a penalty kick away from third place last year. We can’t be two windows away from being more competitive in games against the likes of Ross County. We wouldn’t have sacked a manager if we just needed to make two windows worth of changes to the squad. We sacked a manager because we thought another one would do better.

[HoboHarry]

We were pretty much a penalty kick away from third place last year. We can’t be two windows away from being more competitive in games against the likes of Ross County. We wouldn’t have sacked a manager if we just needed to make two windows worth of changes to the squad. We sacked a manager because we thought another one would do better.
Hopefully at some everyone will learn that that rarely works long term if the squad has weaknesses. NM without a doubt needs a couple of windows or we'll be back here at this time next year.

[JimBHibees]

442 is a horse for a course. It's used occasionally by a lot of teams. As for off-the-ball, most high-pressing teams will drop into that shape if they haven't won the ball back within a specific timescale.

Simeone has used it at Atletico, and it's usually against bigger teams in the Champions League when he's not expecting a lot of possession. He also uses plenty of others and his go-to right now is a back 3, just like he used at Celtic last week. Burnley used the exactly same approach and it kept them in the PL for nearly a decade.

Argentina didn't win the World Cup with it. They lost to Saudi and beat Croatia with it. They played a 433 for the rest of it with the exception of playing a 352 v the Dutch.

The difference is we are 442 every game, in and out of possession.

Monty’s 442 seems a flexible one. Think formations have evolved since everyone played it. All about the quality of players though and all systems will have weaknesses and strengths up to the coach to get players to know their role but also have a system best suits the players at his disposal

[1620]

Monty’s 442 seems a flexible one. Think formations have evolved since everyone played it. All about the quality of players though and all systems will have weaknesses and strengths up to the coach to get players to know their role but also have a system best suits the players at his disposal

I agree completely with this statement.
I have said before that NM is trying to implement a system for which he doesn’t at the moment have the correct players. Everyone at his disposal is being given a chance to see if they can adapt to his system and in my opinion there are quite a lot who can’t. It remains to be seen if he can keep us around mid table until the January window when I would expect to see a few ins and outs.

[Winston Ingram]

Monty’s 442 seems a flexible one. Think formations have evolved since everyone played it. All about the quality of players though and all systems will have weaknesses and strengths up to the coach to get players to know their role but also have a system best suits the players at his disposal

How is it flexible? What’s different?

From what I’ve seen it’s the same as any other 442. Outnumbered in midfield, our wide attacking players playing too deep and being less effective as a result, very little creativity in the centre of midfield and more often than not, 2 centre forwards stood on the halfway line will balls are getting pumped into our box.

[JimBHibees]

How is it flexible? What’s different?

From what I’ve seen it’s the same as any other 442. Outnumbered in midfield, our wide attacking players playing too deep and being less effective as a result, very little creativity in the centre of midfield and more often than not, 2 centre forwards stood on the halfway line will balls are getting pumped into our box.

Interchanging of positions, one of the strikers sitting on a central mid, wingers coming inside allowing full backs to push up. Strengths and weaknesses in any system it isn't an exact science much more important the quality of the player.

[Donegal Hibby]

I was reading an article after our draw with Celtic were the St mirren manager said we showed that other teams can take points off Celtic though he wouldn't be setting his team up like us as they preferred to play either 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 which is probably a good thing for them that they have a different system to play when they need it .

[Since452]

Don't have any confidence this guy can find a way to grind out wins. He's getting opportunities handed to him on a plate and doesn't take them. We played ok today but we lost a semi against 10 men. We actually got worse after the red card. Yet again no game management.

[SeanWilson]

Interchanging of positions, one of the strikers sitting on a central mid, wingers coming inside allowing full backs to push up. Strengths and weaknesses in any system it isn't an exact science much more important the quality of the player.

A better Aberdeen team would have pummelled us today. We play most of the game with 2 sitting and 4 pressing. The rangers game showed how pathetic a formation it is. Going to levitt sitting against 10 men and 1 down was also criminal.

[The Captain....]

Don't have any confidence this guy can find a way to grind out wins. He's getting opportunities handed to him on a plate and doesn't take them. We played ok today but we lost a semi against 10 men. We actually got worse after the red card. Yet again no game management.Agreed..I was hopeful listening to him initially but his in game management and changes seem to help the opposition more than us. I'm losing faith in him with every passing game already.

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[Paulie Walnuts]

4-4-2 though. Absolutely nothing wrong with it etc.

We’ll still have folk saying the same crap when he gets binned.

[Trinity Hibee]

Realise this will just antagonise people but I’d be surprised if Monty is still here in a years time. This feels exactly like the Maloney period.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Realise this will just antagonise people but I’d be surprised if Monty is still here in a years time. This feels exactly like the Maloney period.

A year? I’d be surprised if he’s still here until the end of the season.

We’ll still have folk telling us he’s class and we’ve improved loads though.

[MWHIBBIES]

4-4-2 though. Absolutely nothing wrong with it etc.

We’ll still have folk saying the same crap when he gets binned.

Behave mate. You're one of the better ones on here, but you're being silly.

John beaten not given a stonewaller because Hibs were playing 442?

[Since452]

Realise this will just antagonise people but I’d be surprised if Monty is still here in a years time. This feels exactly like the Maloney period.

His record is now very comparable to Maloney and he has a far better squad than he did.

[AL-Qaholik]

A year? I’d be surprised if he’s still here until the end of the season.

We’ll still have folk telling us he’s class and we’ve improved loads though.

He’s on par with Maloney - be lucky to see Xmas at this rate.

[The Captain....]

Realise this will just antagonise people but I’d be surprised if Monty is still here in a years time. This feels exactly like the Maloney period.Just got a text from someone saying the same thing about it feeling like Maloney in that we don't look like winning games and are wedded to a system that doesn't suit us.

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[dp00]

We have to give someone a chance to build there own team , it’s clear he has a way he wants to play. Let him get his players in and clear out the dead wood that’s been hanging about for too long

What we one out 5/6th manager now that we have sacked… surely they can’t all be rubbish and we need to give someone a chance and clear out the dead wood


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[Chorley Hibee]

Time to start asking questions of the folk who keep employing failure after failure, whilst treating us as a "project".

[LunasBoots]

Not even got his own players yet....

[B.H.F.C]

Absolutely **** all to do with playing a 442 tonight.

Dominated the game but don’t have the ability in the team to do the critical things.

The same ***** will let us down time after time after. Look at the team on the park at full time.

[LaMotta]

Worrying stuff.

Another manager who doesnt have a clue what to do against 10 men.

Shocking subs again.

He seems like a good guy, but when will some people on Hibs.net learn not to profess that a manager is a genius after one home game win against a woeful St Johnstone team?

[Tambo]

So far for Monty.

Games in charge 9

Goals for 12

Goals against 13

Wins vs Kilmarnock and Ross County would have had us looking a lot better in the league standings. There's been some good and not so good so far.

[B.H.F.C]

4-4-2 though. Absolutely nothing wrong with it etc.

We’ll still have folk saying the same crap when he gets binned.

You are desperate to make that point. Desperate. If you watch that game tonight and think it was anything tactical that lost us the game you’re off your head man.

[neil7908]

Absolutely **** all to do with playing a 442 tonight.

Dominated the game but don’t have the ability in the team to do the critical things.

The same ***** will let us down time after time after. Look at the team on the park at full time.

Not so sure. We got loads of balls into the box tonight but there seemed to be no Hibs players looking to get on with end. We have two strikers but they don't play as a pair.

I like our front 6 but judging by results, it's not working.

He needs to find a way to start winning games and hope we can get 3-4 players in quickly once the window opens in January. That said, who drops out?

[Heisenberg]

Anyone trying to pin that on the formation is at it.

[Hiber-nation]

The 4-4-2 argument is obviously ludicrous, it worked really well. But his subs were diabolical. Vente and Tavares were doing well. Madness.

But of course we were done by the officials. Look who was on VAR....

[B.H.F.C]

Worrying stuff.

Another manager who doesnt have a clue what to do against 10 men.

Shocking subs again.

He seems like a good guy, but when will some people on Hibs.net learn not to profess that a manager is a genius genius after one home game win against a woeful St Johnstone team?

The game was done as soon as they scored. Wouldn’t matter who the manager was when you look at the options available.

So many utter failures in that squad.

[ruthven_raiders]

Not even got his own players yet....

Exactly, the nonsense from some Hibs supporters saying it's like watching Maloney's team, OMG! He needs a chance to build his own team. We can't keep sacking managers every few months, it's beyond a joke. Been watching Hibs for over 55 years, and believe me I've seen horrendous football, especially in the 80s...

[Heisenberg]

The 4-4-2 argument is obviously ludicrous, it worked really well. But his subs were diabolical. Vente and Tavares were doing well. Madness.

But of course we were done by the officials. Look who was on VAR....

I don’t think either of them staying on makes a difference. The players panicked and started lumping the ball into the box from all angles.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You are desperate to make that point. Desperate. If you watch that game tonight and think it was anything tactical that lost us the game you’re off your head man.

No, I’m really not.

People have claimed the same for weeks now. It’s nothing to do with 4-4-2 etc. well what is it? 4-4-2 is a ****ing disaster.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Behave mate. You're one of the better ones on here, but you're being silly.

John beaten not given a stonewaller because Hibs were playing 442?

Blaming everyone but 4-4-2 is becoming a theme yet it’s the consistent in our results.

Folk claim I’ve nailed my colours to the mast yet no matter how often we see us look absolutely garbage the same folk will claim it’s not 4-4-2 that’s the issue.

[Since452]

I don't think we'll finish top six under him. Not winning games is becoming a habit.

[richard_pitts]

How is it flexible? What’s different?

From what I’ve seen it’s the same as any other 442. Outnumbered in midfield, our wide attacking players playing too deep and being less effective as a result, very little creativity in the centre of midfield and more often than not, 2 centre forwards stood on the halfway line will balls are getting pumped into our box.

The Man U team of 1999 played 442 and won the treble playing scintillating football. Mind you, Giggs Cole and Yorke would be good in any system. We are better than under the silly spiv but still got work to do.

[LunasBoots]

Exactly, the nonsense from some Hibs supporters saying it's like watching Maloney's team, OMG! He needs a chance to build his own team. We can't keep sacking managers every few months, it's beyond a joke. Been watching Hibs for over 55 years, and believe me I've seen horrendous football, especially in the 80s...

Exactly mate, it's very hard to judge a manager when he's just using what's currently at his disposal, he's at the minute just trying to install some confidence in the current lads, still needs the time ahead to install his own players and toughen things up a bit.

[B.H.F.C]

No, I’m really not.

People have claimed the same for weeks now. It’s nothing to do with 4-4-2 etc. well what is it? 4-4-2 is a ****ing disaster.

You are. You repeatedly make the same point on any thread.

Do you really think that is what cost us the game tonight? We dominated the game, we didn’t take our chances and have a goalie who never makes a save.

Still, just keep saying the same thing over and over again if it keeps you happy.

[LaMotta]

The game was done as soon as they scored. Wouldn’t matter who the manager was when you look at the options available.

So many utter failures in that squad.

How can the team not know how to play against 10 men though? Thats on the manager.

Taking off a clinical finsher that cost a million quid (according to Kensell) and putting on a 16 year old thats never played senior football? Sorry that's criminal.

[sauzeelegod]

The Man U team of 1999 played 442 and won the treble playing scintillating football. Mind you, Giggs Cole and Yorke would be good in any system. We are better than under the silly spiv but still got work to do.

Yeah but everyone else played 442 as well

[blackpoolhibs]

Not even got his own players yet....

Some managers come into clubs and improve them, actually get them winning games they were not winning under the previous man.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You are. You repeatedly make the same point on any thread.

Do you really think that is what cost us the game tonight? We dominated the game, we didn’t take our chances and have a goalie who never makes a save.

Still, just keep saying the same thing over and over again if it keeps you happy.

Because the same point is repeatedly relevant. We’ve not won in 7 games. If we’d won in those games you could maybe argue it’s irrelevant. It’s more and more obvious every week if it wasn’t obvious enough already.

[Hibs90]

No, I’m really not.

People have claimed the same for weeks now. It’s nothing to do with 4-4-2 etc. well what is it? 4-4-2 is a ****ing disaster.

The goalies, defence and midfield are absolutely murder.

The players are not good enough. It's got **** all to do with formation.

[B.H.F.C]

How can the team not know how to play against 10 men though? Thats on the manager.

Taking off a clinical finsher that cost a million quid (according to Kensell) and putting on a 16 year old thats never played senior football? Sorry that's criminal.

I thought the goal going in almost as soon as the sending off happened killed it. Would be as well blowing for full time then. Sending off never changes anything the way they were set up.

We simply don’t have the players. Squad is abysmal and the same ones continually fail.

[sauzeelegod]

Subbing Vente with 4 mins to go when we need a goal and bringing on a 16 year old is absolutely baffling.

I didn’t want him in the first place, as soon as I researched him and seen he was 442 and nothing else was a massive red flag for me.

He hasn’t got a plan B.
I’ve no idea why so many Hibs fans seem to think he’s the messiah.
His record so far is poor.

[Vault Boy]

- Hasn’t signed a single player
- Already faced Celtic, Rangers, and Hearts, coming out with a even record in those games
- Revitalised players like Jair and is giving actual opportunities to youngsters

Of course it’s not been an ideal start, and some of the results have been so frustrating because of our propensity to give away leads - but I honestly can’t believe we’re seeing genuine calls for Monty’s head. There’s massive amounts of work for him and his staff to do yet before we can make a clear judgement.

[LaMotta]

I thought the goal going in almost as soon as the sending off happened killed it. Would be as well blowing for full time then. Sending off never changes anything the way they were set up.

We simply don’t have the players. Squad is abysmal and the same ones continually fail.

We still had nearly 20 minutes a man up though and were utterly clueless with it. Honestly raging with that . No different from Tynie with Johnston. Actually we somehow conceded so it was worse.

[Hibees1973]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this.

It's the same movie, just with different people in it.

I still maintain Hibs are in a mess which is down to the Gordon's & Kensell's incompetence for the last couple of years. It's down to them our bench was dire tonight. So many players bought in the last couple of years and either now out on loan or no longer here.

I'm still 100% with Montgomery, however there are going to be more down's than up's due the squad he has got to work with.

Hibs supporters have always had to be patient. Give Montgomery a couple of transfer windows alongside McDermott and I think we will be much better this time next year.

[Hibs90]

Subbing Vente with 4 mins to go when we need a goal and bringing on a 16 year old is absolutely baffling.

I didn’t want him in the first place, as soon as I researched him and seen he was 442 and nothing else was a massive red flag for me.

He hasn’t got a plan B.
I’ve no idea why so many Hibs fans seem to think he’s the messiah.
His record so far is poor.

I could give you a huge list of managers who play the same formation every single week regardless of results. Managers don't chop and change formations. Infact, if they do it usually signals they haven't got a clue.

[Since452]

Some managers come into clubs and improve them, actually get them winning games they were not winning under the previous man.

Lennon left us an absolute train wreck. Hecky came in and got us top 6 out of nowhere, won manager of the month and beat the flumps at Tynecastle. This guy can't get a tune out of them. If this is the new manager bounce I'm dreading next season.

[Eyrie]

442/424 wasn't the issue today.

Not taking our chances, another couple of VARces and a lack of options on the bench were the issues.

[B.H.F.C]

We still had nearly 20 minutes a man up though and were utterly clueless with it. Honestly raging with that . No different from Tynie with Johnston. Actually we somehow conceded so it was worse.

We don’t have the players. Until we change them, it’ll be the same thing.

Nobody there who is going to step up and take responsibility when the going gets tough.

[JimBHibees]

A better Aberdeen team would have pummelled us today. We play most of the game with 2 sitting and 4 pressing. The rangers game showed how pathetic a formation it is. Going to levitt sitting against 10 men and 1 down was also criminal.

We were by far the better team but yes got ridiculously done on the break..

[JimBHibees]

4-4-2 though. Absolutely nothing wrong with it etc.

We’ll still have folk saying the same crap when he gets binned.

We were the better team absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the team we lost but I get the impression you know that anyway.

[LaMotta]

We don’t have the players. Until we change them, it’ll be the same thing.

Nobody there who is going to step up and take responsibility when the going gets tough.

I agree mate to a certain extent but taking Vente off and putting on a ypung boy with zero experience??

I also think the players have zero game intelligence.

[Helensburghhibs]

I agree mate to a certain extent but taking Vente off and putting on a ypung boy with zero experience??

I also think the players have zero game intelligence.

This is my bugbear,,, the double sub was brutal. Case in point..... Campbell had an identical chance as vente did earlier. Vente hit target and was unlucky. Josh almost failed to make any contact.

[Since452]

Vente has gone from looking like our best signing in years to barely even noticing he's on the park since Montgomery came in. Aye but he's improved Jair...

[sauzeelegod]

I could give you a huge list of managers who play the same formation every single week regardless of results. Managers don't chop and change formations. Infact, if they do it usually signals they haven't got a clue.

You’d be wrong

[B.H.F.C]

I agree mate to a certain extent but taking Vente off and putting on a ypung boy with zero experience??

I also think the players have zero game intelligence.

I do agree with the bit about taking Vente off.

Also think Vente needs to be better. A lot getting put down to system but his touch was crap first half and I think he needs to do a bit more to get in to the box at times. There was one Youan put across the box second half and they were all standing at the edge of the box watching. Still wouldn’t have taken him off for Landers though.

[Hibs90]

You’d be wrong

Prove it.

[john18722]

How can the team not know how to play against 10 men though? Thats on the manager.

Taking off a clinical finsher that cost a million quid (according to Kensell) and putting on a 16 year old thats never played senior football? Sorry that's criminal.
Totally agreed. Keep finishers on the pitch. Ridiculous decision.

[B.H.F.C]

Vente has gone from looking like our best signing in years to barely even noticing he's on the park since Montgomery came in. Aye but he's improved Jair...

He scored two goals pre Monty and three goals since he came in.

Funnily enough, all have come when playing in the infamous 442, even before Monty’s time.

[LaMotta]

I do agree with the bit about taking Vente off.

Also think Vente needs to be better. A lot getting put down to system but his touch was crap first half and I think he needs to do a bit more to get in to the box at times. There was one Youan put across the box second half and they were all standing at the edge of the box watching. Still wouldn’t have taken him off for Landers though.

:aok:

To be fair I dont think Vente has ever had a really great game - he got five clinical goals from 5 chances. Which is why he has to be on that pitch at the end.

Josh Campbell was woeful, he can contribute as a starter but is an awful sub to bring on.

[Unseen work]

Vente has gone from looking like our best signing in years to barely even noticing he's on the park since Montgomery came in. Aye but he's improved Jair...

No league goals before Montgomery but 3 since Monty has came in?

Odd take

[FC1875]

Realise this will just antagonise people but I’d be surprised if Monty is still here in a years time. This feels exactly like the Maloney period.

Yes. Another dud.

[Since452]

No league goals before Montgomery but 3 since Monty has came in?

Odd take

To be fair he'd only played 70 minutes in the league when Montgomery arrived. He'd scored 2 in other games before that and looked a threat. I was more alluding to the fact he looks completely anonymous in most games now. 6 games without a goal. Montgomery had been here 11 days when he got his last one. The system doesn't suit him. He's progressively become more anonymous as we've barely created a chance.

[B.H.F.C]

To be fair he'd only played 70 minutes in the league when Montgomery arrived. He'd scored 2 in other games before that and looked a threat. I was more alluding to the fact he looks completely anonymous in most games now. 6 games without a goal. Montgomery had been here 11 days when he got his last one. The system doesn't suit him. He's progressively become more anonymous as we've barely created a chance.

His goals pre Montgomery were in a 442 as well, Luzern and Raith at home.

Whatever the merits of the system, he needs to do more himself but there are few games, in any system, where he’s been heavily involved.

[TrinityHFC]

His goals pre Montgomery were in a 442 as well, Luzern and Raith at home.

Whatever the merits of the system, he needs to do more himself but there are few games, in any system, where he’s been heavily involved.

Yeah they were 442 but with a more direct style with our two quick wingers playing high and wide. Think we need to be trying to play more to the strengths of those two again.

[B.H.F.C]

Yeah they were 442 but with a more direct style with our two quick wingers playing high and wide. Think we need to be trying to play more to the strengths of those two again.

I just think everything seems to come back to 442 for some people.

Get the Vente thread up from Montgomery’s first few games, when Vente scored in all three, and nobody was talking about him not being suited to the system.

For me, I think it’s crying out for us just to play Vente with Boyle and Youan either side but I don’t think the way we are set up is the complete determining factor in some of his poor performances. The three goals he scored in those games he was in the box between the posts. I don’t see him doing enough of that at the moment. There were times today when he should have been taking the ball in but his touch was poor and times where I thought he should have been bursting a gut to get in to the box but he didn’t.

[sean]

I just think everything seems to come back to 442 for some people.

Get the Vente thread up from Montgomery’s first few games, when Vente scored in all three, and nobody was talking about him not being suited to the system.

For me, I think it’s crying out for us just to play Vente with Boyle and Youan either side but I don’t think the way we are set up is the complete determining factor in some of his poor performances. The three goals he scored in those games he was in the box between the posts. I don’t see him doing enough of that at the moment. There were times today when he should have been taking the ball in but his touch was poor and times where I thought he should have been bursting a gut to get in to the box but he didn’t.


Vente scored 5 in 5 shots at the start of the season. He hardly touched the ball in games but as you say played between the posts where he looks lethal. he's way deeper now and although working his arse off isn't getting in these killer positions like earlier in the season.

[B.H.F.C]

Vente scored 5 in 5 shots at the start of the season. He hardly touched the ball in games but as you say played between the posts where he looks lethal. he's way deeper now and although working his arse off isn't getting in these killer positions like earlier in the season.

I just don’t think him being deeper is all down to the system. He scored 3 in Monty’s first 3 games, in the same system. There’s no way he’s been asked to play completely different thereafter, maybe Celtic game aside when he did a job on McGregor. I just think players need to take some responsibility as well.

[sean]

I just don’t think him being deeper is all down to the system. He scored 3 in Monty’s first 3 games, in the same system. There’s no way he’s been asked to play completely different thereafter, maybe Celtic game aside when he did a job on McGregor. I just think players need to take some responsibility as well.

Agreed but again today I thought it was the same. how many times did he enter the box? just seems miles away from the penalty box at times. Not blaming monty either just feel we need our best players doing what they do best.

[TrinityHFC]

I just don’t think him being deeper is all down to the system. He scored 3 in Monty’s first 3 games, in the same system. There’s no way he’s been asked to play completely different thereafter, maybe Celtic game aside when he did a job on McGregor. I just think players need to take some responsibility as well.

Think in those earlier games he was the one that stayed higher up with Doidge or ALF dropping in a bit. Boyle isn’t really a proper striking partner for him.

[J-C]

I have one or two worries about Montgomery, the 1st is not having a plan B when things aren't working out, now I know we have a very poor squad depth and 442 struggles when you have no one good enough to bring on except 2-3 very young lads who are still learning their trade. The 2nd is the fact that Montgomery is still very inexperienced, especially at this level, came from the A League which is about our championship level and has only been a manager for 2 years and was a coach at CCM for 2 years prior to being their manager.

Yesterday we were shafted by the officials but the game management by the players and the manager was very poor when they went down to 10 men and a couple of the subs were baffling also.

[Stuart93]

Said it after the ross county game and yesterday only backs it up, he needs to start winning more games.

This hard luck, he will learn pish needs to stop.

If we don’t start picking up wins and putting more points on the board, questions will start being asked

Not good enough so far

[Nicho87]

One league win
Failed to beat Dundee, Ross county at home
Failed to beat a ten man Aberdeen team
Refuses to change formation
Not the best

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Lenny and Broonie next? 🤔

[coldingham hibs]

One league win
Failed to beat Dundee, Ross county at home
Failed to beat a ten man Aberdeen team
Refuses to change formation
Not the best

Add, haven’t scored in 4 of the last 6 games. No surprise when your centre forward spends most of his time defending.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We were the better team absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the team we lost but I get the impression you know that anyway.

Were we aye?

How many times have I read you post that? Killie,
Dundee, Hearts, Ross County, Aberdeen. According to you were the better team every week yet we never win.

[B.H.F.C]

Were we aye?

How many times have I read you post that? Killie,
Dundee, Hearts, Ross County, Aberdeen. According to you were the better team every week yet we never win.

Do you not think we were the better team over the course of the game last night?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Do you not think we were the better team over the course of the game last night?

We offered next to no threat. Their goalie had nothing to do. We were crap.

[easty]

Do you not think we were the better team over the course of the game last night?

First half I thought both teams were terrible. Second half we’re the better team, but in terms of creating real chances…it’s just not good enough. We set up with a load of attacking players but create so little. Especially for Vente.

[B.H.F.C]

We offered next to no threat. Their goalie had nothing to do. We were crap.

We were the better team. We should have won the game. It’s not bad luck or anything like that, that caused us not to, it’s lack of quality. Disallowed goal aside, at least one of Youan, Vente or a Tavares should have scored with the opportunities they had. We got in to numerous good positions otherwise but we’re totally wasteful. Do I think we were brilliant, naw. But the way the game went we should have won it and it was entirely down to our own lack of quality that we didn’t, nothing else.

[B.H.F.C]

First half I thought both teams were terrible. Second half we’re the better team, but in terms of creating real chances…it’s just not good enough. We set up with a load of attacking players but create so little. Especially for Vente.

Vente needs to be in the box more often. He’s running about all over the place but I don’t think that’s a Montgomery thing. Before he came in he’d had 2 shots (both goals) in his first 7 appearances. He then had another 3 shots (all goals) in Montgomery’s first 3 games. Whether it’s pre Monty or since he came in I he’s never been heavily involved in an attacking sense. I think we need to look at how we get more from him but I also think there is more the player can do, just a bit of desire to get on the end of things when balls are being rolled across the front of goal like happened 2 or 3 times last night.

[LewysGot2]

Lenny and Broonie next? 🤔

In midfield? 🎯👏

[Winston Ingram]

Yeah they were 442 but with a more direct style with our two quick wingers playing high and wide. Think we need to be trying to play more to the strengths of those two again.

This

[Winston Ingram]

The Man U team of 1999 played 442 and won the treble playing scintillating football. Mind you, Giggs Cole and Yorke would be good in any system. We are better than under the silly spiv but still got work to do.

So yer argument is 24 years ago someone won a trophy playing 442. Thanks for that.

[raeburnhibs]

In midfield? 🎯👏

we could do worse than Scott Brown for a year

[lucky]

I’m not convinced by him. He just doesn’t win games. As for putting 2 16 year olds on in a semi final while chasing the game was baffling. I think he’ll be away by Christmas as he looks out his depth. Macinnes or Robinson were always better options.

[Since452]

I'm not buying the better team line. We were apparently the better team last night, the better team in the semi v Hearts, the better team in the semi v St Johnstone. Lost, lost lost. The better team finds a way to win. Give me being the worst team and winning semi finals every time. Sick of it.

[JimBHibees]

Were we aye?

How many times have I read you post that? Killie,
Dundee, Hearts, Ross County, Aberdeen. According to you were the better team every week yet we never win.

Yes we clearly were. We weren't against Hearts. Clearly trolling.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not buying the better team line. We were apparently the better team last night, the better team in the semi v Hearts, the better team in the semi v St Johnstone. Lost, lost lost. The better team finds a way to win. Give me being the worst team and winning semi finals every time. Sick of it.

Exactly, we are the best team that always get beat ever.Give us the trophy now.

[B.H.F.C]

I’m not convinced by him. He just doesn’t win games. As for putting 2 16 year olds on in a semi final while chasing the game was baffling. I think he’ll be away by Christmas as he looks out his depth. Macinnes or Robinson were always better options.

Robinson mentioned a lot but worth remembering he got off to a terrible start at St Mirren. And he didn’t come in to a struggling team.

When he took over from Goodwin the remainder of the league season went P12, W3, L7, D2. Then they got knocked out at the group stages in the League Cup and lost their first two league games last season. They were wanting him out at that point.

I think we have dropped silly points since Montgomery came in but for whatever reason I think he’ll turn things round given time. Never felt that with the last couple. January critical for him which we say every year.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yes we clearly were. We weren't against Hearts. Clearly trolling.

We clearly weren’t.

[JohnM1875]

We clearly weren’t.

Aw come on. We were very clearly the better team yesterday. Absolutely mental to suggest otherwise. Best team doesn't always win.

[Allant1981]

Aw come on. We were very clearly the better team yesterday. Absolutely mental to suggest otherwise. Best team doesn't always win.

Yip there was not really any point in the game where we were under real pressure, that's the annoying thing. Marshall had next to nothing to do apart from pick the ball out the net, they let themselves down big time with that goal

[Paulie Walnuts]

Aw come on. We were very clearly the better team yesterday. Absolutely mental to suggest otherwise. Best team doesn't always win.

What did we create? Jair had his chance and Vente had a blocked shot. Other than that we offered very little.

Aberdeen had the two best chances of the game, they weren’t great either though. Can’t see how anyone can claim we were clearly the better team when we created next to nothing and the other team had the best chances of the game.

[dp00]

I’m not convinced by him. He just doesn’t win games. As for putting 2 16 year olds on in a semi final while chasing the game was baffling. I think he’ll be away by Christmas as he looks out his depth. Macinnes or Robinson were always better options.

He out the 2 16year olds on off the bench cause he had no one else … hanlon and Stevenson are hardly attacking threats


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eastmainsmsh]

John Collins summed up yesterday perfectly Miovski was difference would love a finisher of that quality

[ekhibee]

For me it's clearly the midfield that's the problem, there's just not enough quality balls coming to the likes of Vente who seems to do his best work in the penalty box. Newell is probably our best midfielder but for me he too often chooses the wrong option when passing. The forwards are constantly having to retreat back into midfield to get the ball because they're not getting on the ball otherwise, apart from possibly Youan. Vente was having to do this, and he probably doesn't have the pace Youan does so when Youan crosses the ball in he's nowhere near it. Unfortunately Boyle, apart from his dissalowed goal, seems to have recently reverted back to his headless chicken mode when he's running around at pace but not really achieiving anything. Would always play him though, his pace is dangerous for any team to play against and he will score his fair share of goals.i still maintain that we shouldn't be overly reliant on him, but he's still a great option to have.

[1620]

John Collins summed up yesterday perfectly Miovski was difference would love a finisher of that quality

That’s just a JC sound bite for the media. Marsh made it easy for him by simply blocking off the near post shot without giving any thought to the low shot across him to the far post. Vente is a finisher of Miovski’s quality but we as a team seem incapable of providing him with similar chances.

[KWJ]

What did we create? Jair had his chance and Vente had a blocked shot. Other than that we offered very little.

Aberdeen had the two best chances of the game, they weren’t great either though. Can’t see how anyone can claim we were clearly the better team when we created next to nothing and the other team had the best chances of the game.

Are you intentionally forgetting Ellie's blaze over the bar from about 8 yards in the first half. Oh and scoring a goal that some folk still don't think was offside. Vente hitting one that Aberdeen player threw himself at to block. Or Newell tamely right footing one straight at Roos.

But apart from all those glaring chances, you're right we didn't do much.

[BoomtownHibees]

Are you intentionally forgetting Ellie's blaze over the bar from about 8 yards in the first half. Oh and scoring a goal that some folk still don't think was offside. Vente hitting one that Aberdeen player threw himself at to block. Or Newell tamely right footing one straight at Roos.

But apart from all those glaring chances, you're right we didn't do much.

Aye but 442 bad

[flash]

What did we create? Jair had his chance and Vente had a blocked shot. Other than that we offered very little.

Aberdeen had the two best chances of the game, they weren’t great either though. Can’t see how anyone can claim we were clearly the better team when we created next to nothing and the other team had the best chances of the game.
Jair had 2 shots blocked, we scored a very marginally if at all, offside goal, should have had a penalty and there were a couple of other near things, all of which happened before they scored.
We had 10 corners to their 1. To suggest we weren't comfortably the better team is nothing short of ludicrous.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Are you intentionally forgetting Ellie's blaze over the bar from about 8 yards in the first half. Oh and scoring a goal that some folk still don't think was offside. Vente hitting one that Aberdeen player threw himself at to block. Or Newell tamely right footing one straight at Roos.

But apart from all those glaring chances, you're right we didn't do much.

I can’t remember Youan blazing over the bar from 8 yards, I’ll take your word for it though. If it was that good a chance I’m surprised it’s not in the highlights.

An offside goal isn’t a chance. It’s offside.

I mentioned the Vente chance.

Newells ‘chance’ was 25 yards out on his weak foot. It’s a huge stretch to make out like it was a glaring chance. In fact it’s not a stretch, it’s absolute nonsense.

[eastmainsmsh]

That’s just a JC sound bite for the media. Marsh made it easy for him by simply blocking off the near post shot without giving any thought to the low shot across him to the far post. Vente is a finisher of Miovski’s quality but we as a team seem incapable of providing him with similar chances.

True Vente always looking for ball service for him is poor

[Allant1981]

I can’t remember Youan blazing over the bar from 8 yards, I’ll take your word for it though. If it was that good a chance I’m surprised it’s not in the highlights.

An offside goal isn’t a chance. It’s offside.

I mentioned the Vente chance.

Newells ‘chance’ was 25 yards out on his weak foot. It’s a huge stretch to make out like it was a glaring chance. In fact it’s not a stretch, it’s absolute nonsense.

It was a very good chance, not sure how you can't remember it but remember aberdeens, and newell wasn't 25 yards out with his chance either

[Paulie Walnuts]

It was a very good chance, not sure how you can't remember it but remember aberdeens, and newell wasn't 25 yards out with his chance either

The highlights team don’t seem to have remembered it either.

You’re not sure how I can remember Aberdeens? Maybe cause it was the only goal of the game?

Newell was about 25 yards out. He’s on the edge of the box (18 yards) and a decent bit wide of the goals (about 6 or 7 yards). So about 25 yards out.

[easty]

John Collins summed up yesterday perfectly Miovski was difference would love a finisher of that quality

The only time I can remember us creating a goal scoring chance, like Miovski had, where it’s forward v keeper, was Boyle when he was offside.

Miovski got another chance after his goal and made an utter **** of it.

[LaMotta]

The highlights team don’t seem to have remembered it either.

You’re not sure how I can remember Aberdeens? Maybe cause it was the only goal of the game?

Newell was about 25 yards out. He’s on the edge of the box (18 yards) and a decent bit wide of the goals (about 6 or 7 yards). So about 25 yards out.

First half Youan blasted over with his left foot inside the box. Poor effort from him, should have scored probably.

[B.H.F.C]

The highlights team don’t seem to have remembered it either.

You’re not sure how I can remember Aberdeens? Maybe cause it was the only goal of the game?

Newell was about 25 yards out. He’s on the edge of the box (18 yards) and a decent bit wide of the goals (about 6 or 7 yards). So about 25 yards out.

We had 3 clear cut chances inside the box (Youan, Tavares, Vente) in a 50/50 semi final, including Youan’s one which did happen early in the game, plus numerous other positions that we didn’t make the most of throughout. That was all before Aberdeen got their couple of breakaways in the last 15 minutes. We should have won the game, we had more than ample opportunity to do so. Creating or getting in to good positions wasn’t an issue last night, lack of ability to execute when we got there was. It’s not unlucky or anything like that, it’s pish. But there’s nae point in pretending it didn’t happen like that.

[B.H.F.C]

The only time I can remember us creating a goal scoring chance, like Miovski had, where it’s forward v keeper, was Boyle when he was offside.

Miovski got another chance after his goal and made an utter **** of it.

Vente should have scored. Tavares good chance from similar position to the one Miovski scored from but their goalie stood in the right position. Youan should have scored first half as well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

First half Youan blasted over with his left foot inside the box. Poor effort from him, should have scored probably.

Genuinely can’t remember it. If it was in the highlights it would likely jog my memory but I have no recollection of it at all.

[Allant1981]

The highlights team don’t seem to have remembered it either.

You’re not sure how I can remember Aberdeens? Maybe cause it was the only goal of the game?

Newell was about 25 yards out. He’s on the edge of the box (18 yards) and a decent bit wide of the goals (about 6 or 7 yards). So about 25 yards out.

I wasn't talking about the goal, you mentioned aberdeen had the 2 best chances, I can't say I'm shocked that you choose to ignore one of if not hibs best chance as you can then come on here and moan as usual

[BoomtownHibees]

Genuinely can’t remember it. If it was in the highlights it would likely jog my memory but I have no recollection of it at all.

You must have had a shocker of a view at the game if you can’t remember the Youan chance

[Smartie]

That’s just a JC sound bite for the media. Marsh made it easy for him by simply blocking off the near post shot without giving any thought to the low shot across him to the far post. Vente is a finisher of Miovski’s quality but we as a team seem incapable of providing him with similar chances.

You could argue that Marshall was the difference. The chance Jair had when he took it on his left would probably have found a way past his own goalkeeper whereas the Aberdeen goalkeeper would have made a much better effort at saving Miovski's shot.

[B.H.F.C]

You could argue that Marshall was the difference. The chance Jair had when he took it on his left would probably have found a way past his own goalkeeper whereas the Aberdeen goalkeeper would have made a much better effort at saving Miovski's shot.

Very much this. They shot from near identical positions. Seeing the goal back this morning and Miovski should never have been able to just pass the ball in the way he did. The more you see it the more shocking it looks.

[LaMotta]

Genuinely can’t remember it. If it was in the highlights it would likely jog my memory but I have no recollection of it at all.

Yeh to be fair I'd forgot about it til after the game my when my mate mentioned it. Surprised it wasn't in the highlights.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wasn't talking about the goal, you mentioned aberdeen had the 2 best chances, I can't say I'm shocked that you choose to ignore one of if not hibs best chance as you can then come on here and moan as usual

And yet I mentioned other chances. Kind of blows your conspiracy theory out the water, if I had some ulterior motive I wouldn’t have mentioned those ones either.

And trust me, after yet another game without a win I don’t need to ignore one chance to have a moan.

[Allant1981]

And yet I mentioned other chances. Kind of blows your conspiracy theory out the water, if I had some ulterior motive I wouldn’t have mentioned those ones either.

And trust me, after yet another game without a win I don’t need to ignore one chance to have a moan.

Aww I know you don't need a chance to moan, we see it often enough

[Tambo]

I think Monty will be well aware of our track record with manager's and knows the fans want better.

[jacomo]

We clearly weren’t.


You and since452 will no doubt be campaigning hard against the gaffer from now on. It’s very predictable.

[Since452]

You and since452 will no doubt be campaigning hard against the gaffer from now on. It’s very predictable.

I recently heaped praise on him and the team after the Celtic game. If he goes and beats St Mirren he'll be praised again. Montgomery is bringing many of the poor results on himself so he'll continue to be criticised for it. He's managing a big club with big expectations. These results would have anyone under pressure.

[Crunchie]

I recently heaped praise on him and the team after the Celtic game. If he goes and beats St Mirren he'll be praised again. Montgomery is bringing many of the poor results on himself so he'll continue to be criticised for it. He's managing a big club with big expectations. These results would have anyone under pressure.

He’s just in the door ffs give the man a chance. I despair at some of our supporters.

[Allant1981]

He’s just in the door ffs give the man a chance. I despair at some of our supporters.

There are a couple of posters clearly upset that johnson has gone and won't take to the new manager at all, especially one of them

[JimBHibees]

He’s just in the door ffs give the man a chance. I despair at some of our supporters.

Exactly in the door taking over someone's squad with no opportunity as yet to bring in. Needs to be given a little patience and understanding. He is a professional and will understand the importance of results though could certainly do with a bit more support and understanding at present. Seems like some desperate for him to fail. Maybe as a support we get the team we deserve to get with the levels of over criticality and negativity at times.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He’s just in the door ffs give the man a chance. I despair at some of our supporters.

That doesn’t mean he gets a free hit.

His record since he came in is dreadful. We’ve 9 games until the January window opens. If we keep going at the rate we’re going the season will be as good as over by the time that rolls round.

Put simply, he needs to get so much more out of the squad he has.

[Allant1981]

That doesn’t mean he gets a free hit.

His record since he came in is dreadful. We’ve 9 games until the January window opens. If we keep going at the rate we’re going the season will be as good as over by the time that rolls round.

Is it not only something like 2 defeats? Yes to many draws but I'd rather that than defeats when trying to implement his own style and way of playing

[Paulie Walnuts]

Is it not only something like 2 defeats? Yes to many draws but I'd rather that than defeats when trying to implement his own style and way of playing

I think everyone would rather draws than defeats, that goes without saying. The draws are absolutely killing us though and have contributed to his poor start.

[jacomo]

There are a couple of posters clearly upset that johnson has gone and won't take to the new manager at all, especially one of them


It goes back further than that.

[J-C]

It goes back further than that.

Ross fan boys who wanted Maloney out and then fell in love with LJ, they now want Montgomery out, I never understand this doting over managers, they come and go all the time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ross fan boys who wanted Maloney out and then fell in love with LJ, they now want Montgomery out, I never understand this doting over managers, they come and go all the time.

I’ve yet to see anyone say they want Montgomery out. It almost seems more of a fantasy for some posters who claim they despair at our support etc yet they make up scenarios in their head for them to despair at.

[Allant1981]

I think everyone would rather draws than defeats, that goes without saying. The draws are absolutely killing us though and have contributed to his poor start.

not really a dreadful start though, dreadful would be continually losing? Slow start would probably be a better description

[Paulie Walnuts]

not really a dreadful start though, dreadful would be continually losing? Slow start would probably be a better description

I’d say it’s been fairly dreadful but each to their own.

[Winston Ingram]

not really a dreadful start though, dreadful would be continually losing? Slow start would probably be a better description

2 wins in 9 and 1 of those at home to the worst team in the league. We've not scored in 4 of our last 6 games. That's dreadful.

[Winston Ingram]

Ross fan boys who wanted Maloney out and then fell in love with LJ, they now want Montgomery out, I never understand this doting over managers, they come and go all the time.

Has anyone said they want him out. All I've seen is people en masse questioning his ridiculous tactics.

[B.H.F.C]

Has anyone said they want him out. All I've seen is people en masse questioning his ridiculous tactics.

When I look at our team, I would play a front three of Boyle, Youan and Vente.

Genuine question though, do you think it was the way we set up that cost us on Saturday?

[Centre Hawf]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

However tactically we've been a right mixed bag and the results and performances I think highlight that:

Killie 2-2 - We blew a 2 goal lead but fair enough it's his first game. But he chose to take off Vente for Campbell, something he continues to do at times leaving us with no real threat for the final 20 minutes or so.
St Johnstone 2-0 - We were in control throughout and very good, I thought St Johnstone were rotten though.
St Mirren 4-2 - We did win the tie and over the piece deserved it. But once again he made some daft subs at 2-1 (Campbell for Vente again, Whittaker for Elie) and it looked to have backfired and were lucky to catch St Mirren pushing to win the tie in the 90 on the counter.
Hearts 2-2 - Scrappy derby that we done well to come back in.
Rangers 4-0 - A disastrous display overall, didn't lay a glove on them and poor defensively. Sometimes take your medicine through west and move on.
Celtic 0-0 - A solid defensive display in comparison to the week before, a few flashes going forward as well. Well played.
Ross County 2-2 - Probably one the somehow felt worse to me than the Rangers defeat, silly subs allowed Ross County back into the game and we never recovered from conceding the first.
Aberdeen 1-0 - Looked arguably the worst I've seen us this season in terms of thought and plan in an attacking sense once Aberdeen went down to 10 men. Until then it was a good contest, but I honestly struggle to comprehend how we got a numerical advantage and abandoned any aspect of our wide/wing play that we'd got some joy out of for the first 60/70 minutes.

The honeymoon period is over for Nick Montgomery, I'll chalk some of those negatives in the run so far to him learning about the league, the squad, and generally just feeling things out. But we're 1 point off the relegation play-off after the first round of fixtures and there can be no mistake that if come closer to January we're still in a similar position people will begin looking at his position and no amount of "giving the manager time" shouts will save him from that.

[JimBHibees]

Has anyone said they want him out. All I've seen is people en masse questioning his ridiculous tactics.

442 had us dominating the game

[HH81]

Aberdeen game was fine until the red card. We controlled the game in full and they had created nothing.

Unlucky with the Boyle goal. If pen was given it wouldn't have been overturned by VAR.

Shot deflected wide when was going in, another shot saved by keeper, a few others just past the post.

Then the red card and then ran out of ideas. Thier goal meant could sit in and defend which they did without breaking sweat.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

Whilst there’s no debating that some of these players have improved under Monty, I think there’s also a good few who have went the other way.

Boyle hasn’t been performing nearly as well imo to the point folk are advocating dropping him, Youan likewise. Newell has went from starting the season very well to being fairly poor since he’s come in, again to the point of some people suggesting dropping him, Vente isn’t offering half as much recently and Hanlons form has fell off a cliff. The concern for me is they’re our better players. Dragging the likes of Jair, Rocky, Jeggo etc up a level is to be commended, no doubt, but managing to reduce the effectiveness of all our best players is a massive concern.

Nobody will be surprised to hear that I think the system is massively to blame for that but we’re sticking with it so I don’t see their form changing all that much, hence why I said weeks ago that I don’t think he’ll last at Hibs if he persists with it.

[#2 Double Tap]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

However tactically we've been a right mixed bag and the results and performances I think highlight that:

Killie 2-2 - We blew a 2 goal lead but fair enough it's his first game. But he chose to take off Vente for Campbell, something he continues to do at times leaving us with no real threat for the final 20 minutes or so.
St Johnstone 2-0 - We were in control throughout and very good, I thought St Johnstone were rotten though.
St Mirren 4-2 - We did win the tie and over the piece deserved it. But once again he made some daft subs at 2-1 (Campbell for Vente again, Whittaker for Elie) and it looked to have backfired and were lucky to catch St Mirren pushing to win the tie in the 90 on the counter.
Hearts 2-2 - Scrappy derby that we done well to come back in.
Rangers 4-0 - A disastrous display overall, didn't lay a glove on them and poor defensively. Sometimes take your medicine through west and move on.
Celtic 0-0 - A solid defensive display in comparison to the week before, a few flashes going forward as well. Well played.
Ross County 2-2 - Probably one the somehow felt worse to me than the Rangers defeat, silly subs allowed Ross County back into the game and we never recovered from conceding the first.
Aberdeen 1-0 - Looked arguably the worst I've seen us this season in terms of thought and plan in an attacking sense once Aberdeen went down to 10 men. Until then it was a good contest, but I honestly struggle to comprehend how we got a numerical advantage and abandoned any aspect of our wide/wing play that we'd got some joy out of for the first 60/70 minutes.

The honeymoon period is over for Nick Montgomery, I'll chalk some of those negatives in the run so far to him learning about the league, the squad, and generally just feeling things out. But we're 1 point off the relegation play-off after the first round of fixtures and there can be no mistake that if come closer to January we're still in a similar position people will begin looking at his position and no amount of "giving the manager time" shouts will save him from that.

Top posting!

[MWHIBBIES]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

However tactically we've been a right mixed bag and the results and performances I think highlight that:

Killie 2-2 - We blew a 2 goal lead but fair enough it's his first game. But he chose to take off Vente for Campbell, something he continues to do at times leaving us with no real threat for the final 20 minutes or so.
St Johnstone 2-0 - We were in control throughout and very good, I thought St Johnstone were rotten though.
St Mirren 4-2 - We did win the tie and over the piece deserved it. But once again he made some daft subs at 2-1 (Campbell for Vente again, Whittaker for Elie) and it looked to have backfired and were lucky to catch St Mirren pushing to win the tie in the 90 on the counter.
Hearts 2-2 - Scrappy derby that we done well to come back in.
Rangers 4-0 - A disastrous display overall, didn't lay a glove on them and poor defensively. Sometimes take your medicine through west and move on.
Celtic 0-0 - A solid defensive display in comparison to the week before, a few flashes going forward as well. Well played.
Ross County 2-2 - Probably one the somehow felt worse to me than the Rangers defeat, silly subs allowed Ross County back into the game and we never recovered from conceding the first.
Aberdeen 1-0 - Looked arguably the worst I've seen us this season in terms of thought and plan in an attacking sense once Aberdeen went down to 10 men. Until then it was a good contest, but I honestly struggle to comprehend how we got a numerical advantage and abandoned any aspect of our wide/wing play that we'd got some joy out of for the first 60/70 minutes.

The honeymoon period is over for Nick Montgomery, I'll chalk some of those negatives in the run so far to him learning about the league, the squad, and generally just feeling things out. But we're 1 point off the relegation play-off after the first round of fixtures and there can be no mistake that if come closer to January we're still in a similar position people will begin looking at his position and no amount of "giving the manager time" shouts will save him from that.

Was nothing lucky about St mirren win. We were easily the better side and his subs won us the game.

[Smartie]

Whilst there’s no debating that some of these players have improved under Monty, I think there’s also a good few who have went the other way.

Boyle hasn’t been performing nearly as well imo to the point folk are advocating dropping him, Youan likewise. Newell has went from starting the season very well to being fairly poor since he’s come in, again to the point of some people suggesting dropping him, Vente isn’t offering half as much recently and Hanlons form has fell off a cliff. The concern for me is they’re our better players. Dragging the likes of Jair, Rocky, Jeggo etc up a level is to be commended, no doubt, but managing to reduce the effectiveness of all our best players is a massive concern.

Nobody will be surprised to hear that I think the system is massively to blame for that but we’re sticking with it so I don’t see their form changing all that much, hence why I said weeks ago that I don’t think he’ll last at Hibs if he persists with it.

Good points, especially when you consider the performance immediately before Montgomery came in when Gray took charge at Pittodrie - a spirited 2-0 away win at a tough venue where the defence looked stout and we carried a threat going forward. The team Gray picked looked like one most fans would probably be happy with.

It's felt a bit like that's been chucked away to get on board with another experiment, not unlike Maloney was. Whilst it's fair to acknowledge the positives and achievements I do think it's reasonable to point out that a few big players' performances have dropped off.

[LaMotta]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

However tactically we've been a right mixed bag and the results and performances I think highlight that:

Killie 2-2 - We blew a 2 goal lead but fair enough it's his first game. But he chose to take off Vente for Campbell, something he continues to do at times leaving us with no real threat for the final 20 minutes or so.
St Johnstone 2-0 - We were in control throughout and very good, I thought St Johnstone were rotten though.
St Mirren 4-2 - We did win the tie and over the piece deserved it. But once again he made some daft subs at 2-1 (Campbell for Vente again, Whittaker for Elie) and it looked to have backfired and were lucky to catch St Mirren pushing to win the tie in the 90 on the counter.
Hearts 2-2 - Scrappy derby that we done well to come back in.
Rangers 4-0 - A disastrous display overall, didn't lay a glove on them and poor defensively. Sometimes take your medicine through west and move on.
Celtic 0-0 - A solid defensive display in comparison to the week before, a few flashes going forward as well. Well played.
Ross County 2-2 - Probably one the somehow felt worse to me than the Rangers defeat, silly subs allowed Ross County back into the game and we never recovered from conceding the first.
Aberdeen 1-0 - Looked arguably the worst I've seen us this season in terms of thought and plan in an attacking sense once Aberdeen went down to 10 men. Until then it was a good contest, but I honestly struggle to comprehend how we got a numerical advantage and abandoned any aspect of our wide/wing play that we'd got some joy out of for the first 60/70 minutes.

The honeymoon period is over for Nick Montgomery, I'll chalk some of those negatives in the run so far to him learning about the league, the squad, and generally just feeling things out. But we're 1 point off the relegation play-off after the first round of fixtures and there can be no mistake that if come closer to January we're still in a similar position people will begin looking at his position and no amount of "giving the manager time" shouts will save him from that.
:


Excellent post agree with every word.:cb

[LaMotta]

Was nothing lucky about St mirren win. We were easily the better side and his subs won us the game.

Wondering how you think the subs won us that game? Genuine question.

He made 3 subs in the 75th minute and the shape of the team went to pot (as per Ross County) and we lost a goal within 2 minutes.

Boyle then got us out of jail.

[Centre Hawf]

Whilst there’s no debating that some of these players have improved under Monty, I think there’s also a good few who have went the other way.

Boyle hasn’t been performing nearly as well imo to the point folk are advocating dropping him, Youan likewise. Newell has went from starting the season very well to being fairly poor since he’s come in, again to the point of some people suggesting dropping him, Vente isn’t offering half as much recently and Hanlons form has fell off a cliff. The concern for me is they’re our better players. Dragging the likes of Jair, Rocky, Jeggo etc up a level is to be commended, no doubt, but managing to reduce the effectiveness of all our best players is a massive concern.

Nobody will be surprised to hear that I think the system is massively to blame for that but we’re sticking with it so I don’t see their form changing all that much, hence why I said weeks ago that I don’t think he’ll last at Hibs if he persists with it.

I would agree with what you've said to be fair. I think the only thing is Vente is a proper centre forward and offers us something even when he's not involved and makes defences think about him, the same way we looked instantly better once Kevin Nisbet was back or when Mykola was fit and playing regularly last season but yet looked dire when a few others lead the line in their place. Having these guys on the park sometimes make you instantly better.

I think the system doesn't work overall either and it asks too much of the 4 in midfield at both ends of the park. Newell perhaps can't cover the ground adequately enough, Elie is asked to actually help his full-back (which he falls asleep with) and while I heaped praise on Jeggo he's not massively good enough on the ball to be part of a two man midfield set up.


Was nothing lucky about St mirren win. We were easily the better side and his subs won us the game.

Maybe lucky was a harsh word to use for that game, but I can't be the only one who raised an eyebrow when the subs were rolling out at 2-1 then left frustrated to see us concede minutes later and wondering if we had enough out there to find a win. We were the better side over the 90 for sure but we were also the better side over Ross County, it doesn't guarantee you anything if you get your tactics and decisions wrong, which mid-game he has done on a few occasions and been punished for.

[Allant1981]

2 wins in 9 and 1 of those at home to the worst team in the league. We've not scored in 4 of our last 6 games. That's dreadful.

It hasn't been dreadful at all, very selective also stating the goals scored, we have also scored 8 in the last 7 games, yes the draws have been poor, especially last week but only 2 defeats suggest it hasn't been dreadful

[Nicho87]

Honeymoon defo over

Now tin hat on, there are similarities to maloney.

Tippy tappy, no real goal threat, lack of bite and drive.

Pressure is defo on

[TrinityHFC]

442 had us dominating the game

What happened to the formation doesn’t make any difference chat?

We had less possession than Aberdeen, they had more shots on target. They scored against us with a man less and missed an easier chance to make it two.

I think we played okay but there’s definitely room to improve on all the above. A different formation, say a 433 may have seen us more dominant, making more chances? Who knows but not sure we should be thanking the formation to leading us to just a narrow loss v 10 men.

[Winston Ingram]

Honeymoon defo over

Now tin hat on, there are similarities to maloney.

Tippy tappy, no real goal threat, lack of bite and drive.

Pressure is defo on

He's very similar to Maloney, Butcher and Hecky. All 3 had baffling tactical approaches and stubbornly stuck to them and they rightly got their jotters.

Maloney to the ridiculous 343 all possession, very little attacking. Butcher with his hoofing into the channels to win throws and corners and Hecky decided he didn't need a defensive midfielder(interestingly now he has finally worked this out).

We all know what the definition of insanity is and if he decides to stick to this approach, he'll be going in the same direction as the other 3.

[Winston Ingram]

It hasn't been dreadful at all, very selective also stating the goals scored, we have also scored 8 in the last 7 games, yes the draws have been poor, especially last week but only 2 defeats suggest it hasn't been dreadful

8 in 7 games. Hud me back.

We've also conceded 11.

[B.H.F.C]

What happened to the formation doesn’t make any difference chat?

We had less possession than Aberdeen, they had more shots on target. They scored against us with a man less and missed an easier chance to make it two.

I think we played okay but there’s definitely room to improve on all the above. A different formation, say a 433 may have seen us more dominant, making more chances? Who knows but not sure we should be thanking the formation to leading us to just a narrow loss v 10 men.

Aberdeen might have had more shots on target but we had more clear cut chances, our execution just wasn’t good enough.

Youan should have scored in the first half. Vente should have scored, Tavares should have done better with his chance. That’s three huge chances in a game like that all before Miovski had, and took, his chance. Chuck in the VAR intervention and non intervention as well. Then there was the chance Youan had right after they scored when Newell played him in and he took a bad touch. I didn’t realise until I saw it back but it’s probably the biggest chance of the lot, even if it didn’t even result in a shot. If he takes a proper touch he’s got a free shot from about 8 yards out.

I think it’s far too simplistic to say that a change of shape has us more dominant. We were playing against a back 5 and still managed to create a number of clear openings inside their box. The issue was not taking those chances.

If I’m picking a Hibs team from what we have I’m going with a front three of Vente, Boyle and Youan. But I’m still sceptical that playing a different shape would have things looking much different, we’re just not clinical enough at either end of the pitch.

[Superfurry72]

I think overall we've seen an improvement in some players since he's arrived, so there's clear signs he's a good coach and man manager. Players like Rocky, Jair, Jeggo, have all looked better than perhaps people thought they could be at either the start of this season or approaching the end of last. Similarly I'm still seeing the likes of Obita, Miller, Levitt (when he gets the chance) and Vente (again when he gets the service) still performing well and give me faith in their contributions to the club going forward.

However tactically we've been a right mixed bag and the results and performances I think highlight that:

Killie 2-2 - We blew a 2 goal lead but fair enough it's his first game. But he chose to take off Vente for Campbell, something he continues to do at times leaving us with no real threat for the final 20 minutes or so.
St Johnstone 2-0 - We were in control throughout and very good, I thought St Johnstone were rotten though.
St Mirren 4-2 - We did win the tie and over the piece deserved it. But once again he made some daft subs at 2-1 (Campbell for Vente again, Whittaker for Elie) and it looked to have backfired and were lucky to catch St Mirren pushing to win the tie in the 90 on the counter.
Hearts 2-2 - Scrappy derby that we done well to come back in.
Rangers 4-0 - A disastrous display overall, didn't lay a glove on them and poor defensively. Sometimes take your medicine through west and move on.
Celtic 0-0 - A solid defensive display in comparison to the week before, a few flashes going forward as well. Well played.
Ross County 2-2 - Probably one the somehow felt worse to me than the Rangers defeat, silly subs allowed Ross County back into the game and we never recovered from conceding the first.
Aberdeen 1-0 - Looked arguably the worst I've seen us this season in terms of thought and plan in an attacking sense once Aberdeen went down to 10 men. Until then it was a good contest, but I honestly struggle to comprehend how we got a numerical advantage and abandoned any aspect of our wide/wing play that we'd got some joy out of for the first 60/70 minutes.

The honeymoon period is over for Nick Montgomery, I'll chalk some of those negatives in the run so far to him learning about the league, the squad, and generally just feeling things out. But we're 1 point off the relegation play-off after the first round of fixtures and there can be no mistake that if come closer to January we're still in a similar position people will begin looking at his position and no amount of "giving the manager time" shouts will save him from that.

Excellent post but you missed a game - the 0-0 home draw with Dundee, which was a frustrating one.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If I’m picking a Hibs team from what we have I’m going with a front three of Vente, Boyle and Youan. But I’m still sceptical that playing a different shape would have things looking much different, we’re just not clinical enough at either end of the pitch.

This is what I don’t get when we’ve had people claiming 4-4-2 isn’t the issue, formations don’t matter etc.

Defensively we’re abysmal. Offensively, we’re pretty poor as well. All our best players aren’t performing in this system.

If we moved to a 4-3-3, we’d likely get a better hold of games from having an extra man in the middle and I’d suspect we’d be more solid defensively as a result. We’d also hopefully get more from Boyle and Youan as I think their abilities are being blunted by playing in a 4-4-2 and being asked to do more defensive work, something which isn’t either of their strong points. It would also mean Vente can focus more on being our number 9, rather than whatever it is Montgomery has him doing just now, which really isn’t doing him any favours. I’d also expect Newell to offer more as part of a 3 than he is in a 2 which clearly isn’t suiting him.

Obviously we’d only know that if we tried it and from the sounds of things Montgomery has no interest in doing that, so it’ll all just be guess work. We could change to 4-3-3 and lose every game, we’ll never know, but I fully expect we’d be a better side for it. This squad is screaming out to play 4-3-3 with not just the players we have, but the positions of all our best players in particular who are all imo playing a role which doesn’t get the best out them. Doing that ti your best players is madness imo.

I completely agree with you about us not being clinical enough, but we’re also not creating nearly enough. We’re leaving ourselves a small amount of chances each game which we have to take or else we’ll get nothing out of it. We need to create so much more.

[Centre Hawf]

Excellent post but you missed a game - the 0-0 home draw with Dundee, which was a frustrating one.

You're right, an afternoon I chose to wipe from my memory it seems.

[Allant1981]

8 in 7 games. Hud me back.

We've also conceded 11.

Yet still only lost 2, its not great but no where near dreadful

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yet still only lost 2, its not great but no where near dreadful

Whilst I’m not getting into comparisons with Maloney as I don’t believe they’re particularly similar in the way they manage, Maloney could also point to not losing a massive amount of games. The problem was we never won nearly enough. At this point in time, things are going the same sort of way under Monty in that he just can’t win games.

I don’t think you’d find anyone arguing Maloney was anything but dreadful despite not losing a massive amount of games and I don’t think using one type of result gives any worthwhile indication as to how we’re doing. When you look at all the results, win, lose and draw, it’s been desperately poor.

It’s a bit like when people use win percentages to show how a manager is doing. It tells you how well they’re doing at winning games, but doesn’t tell you how they’re doing overall. For example Monty has managed 7 league games and has a 14% win ratio. That doesn’t tell us though whether he’s picked up 3 points or 9 points or anywhere in between though. Picking out one type of result, such as amount of losses in this case doesn’t come close to telling the whole picture.

[B.H.F.C]

This is what I don’t get when we’ve had people claiming 4-4-2 isn’t the issue, formations don’t matter etc.

Defensively we’re abysmal. Offensively, we’re pretty poor as well. All our best players aren’t performing in this system.

If we moved to a 4-3-3, we’d likely get a better hold of games from having an extra man in the middle and I’d suspect we’d be more solid defensively as a result. We’d also hopefully get more from Boyle and Youan as I think their abilities are being blunted by playing in a 4-4-2 and being asked to do more defensive work, something which isn’t either of their strong points. It would also mean Vente can focus more on being our number 9, rather than whatever it is Montgomery has him doing just now, which really isn’t doing him any favours. I’d also expect Newell to offer more as part of a 3 than he is in a 2 which clearly isn’t suiting him.

Obviously we’d only know that if we tried it and from the sounds of things Montgomery has no interest in doing that, so it’ll all just be guess work. We could change to 4-3-3 and lose every game, we’ll never know, but I fully expect we’d be a better side for it. This squad is screaming out to play 4-3-3 with not just the players we have, but the positions of all our best players in particular who are all imo playing a role which doesn’t get the best out them. Doing that ti your best players is madness imo.

I completely agree with you about us not being clinical enough, but we’re also not creating nearly enough. We’re leaving ourselves a small amount of chances each game which we have to take or else we’ll get nothing out of it. We need to create so much more.

I just think the problems are bigger than the shape of the team.

There are a lot of things being put down to the system when I don’t think the system is the main reason for it. Vente is a good example. A lot is spoken about him not getting service, the system not suiting him etc. But in his 7 appearances prior to Monty coming in he’d had 2 shots (scored with both). He’s rarely been heavily involved and it’s not as if he was running about doing things in different systems that he isn’t doing now. I think there is a player in there but I don’t think the lack of contribution with him is all down to system, especially when the only goals he’s scored have been playing in this system. Youan is another one where I read a lot about him not being high enough up the park yet he’s still made a decent contribution and was wasteful in good positions on Saturday when he could hardly have been any higher.

I disagree that we’re only giving ourselves a small opportunity to win games as well. Twice we’ve been 2-0 up with an hour played, that’s giving yourself a huge opportunity. Again, on Saturday, the game was there for us to win but we failed to take 3 or 4 good chances and they take their first one. That is just us being pish in the first and final third of the pitch.

There are things that concern me about Montgomery so don’t take the above as me saying he’s doing everything right and he knows best. His use of subs has baffled me at times. I don’t get why he regularly changes a centre half during a game. I thought last Tuesday was entirely on him wheras I didn’t think Saturday was, a couple of strange subs aside but the players had already done the damage by then.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I just think the problems are bigger than the shape of the team.

There are a lot of things being put down to the system when I don’t think the system is the main reason for it. Vente is a good example. A lot is spoken about him not getting service, the system not suiting him etc. But in his 7 appearances prior to Monty coming in he’d had 2 shots (scored with both). He’s rarely been heavily involved and it’s not as if he was running about doing things in different systems that he isn’t doing now. I think there is a player in there but I don’t think the lack of contribution with him is all down to system, especially when the only goals he’s scored have been playing in this system. Youan is another one where I read a lot about him not being high enough up the park yet he’s still made a decent contribution and was wasteful in good positions on Saturday when he could hardly have been any higher.

I disagree that we’re only giving ourselves a small opportunity to win games as well. Twice we’ve been 2-0 up with an hour played, that’s giving yourself a huge opportunity. Again, on Saturday, the game was there for us to win but we failed to take 3 or 4 good chances and they take their first one. That is just us being pish in the first and final third of the pitch.

There are things that concern me about Montgomery so don’t take the above as me saying he’s doing everything right and he knows best. His use of subs has baffled me at times. I don’t get why he regularly changes a centre half during a game. I thought last Tuesday was entirely on him wheras I didn’t think Saturday was, a couple of strange subs aside but the players had already done the damage by then.

Fair points.

To be clear, when I criticise the 4-4-2, I’m in no way saying it’s our only issue. Theres plenty others on top of that. The formation is the only one we can really address just now though and I fear sticking with it will see Montgomery getting to January with a record that he’ll find difficult to come back from. We’ll likely have played 19 games without much happening signing wise unless we have a mass of players ready to play 2nd January before the break kicks in. That’s the same amount of games as Maloney got and people were fairly unanimous in thinking his time was up when he got sacked. I’d argue the majority had made up their mind after about game 14 or 15, and Monty is only 5 or 6 games away from that point with a much better squad and a worse record.

If he wants to be a success here then he’ll need to have a big turnaround before January imo or else he’ll not recover from it.

[Smartie]

Fair points.

To be clear, when I criticise the 4-4-2, I’m in no way saying it’s our only issue. Theres plenty others on top of that. The formation is the only one we can really address just now though and I fear sticking with it will see Montgomery getting to January with a record that he’ll find difficult to come back from. We’ll likely have played 19 games without much happening signing wise unless we have a mass of players ready to play 2nd January before the break kicks in. That’s the same amount of games as Maloney got and people were fairly unanimous in thinking his time was up.

If he wants to be a success here then he’ll need to have a big turnaround before January imo or else he’ll not recover from it.

I'm pretty sure he's a good manager but I am concerned that he's very quickly digging a bit of a hole for himself. Heckingbottom was a good manager who managed to do similar.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'm pretty sure he's a good manager but I am concerned that he's very quickly digging a bit of a hole for himself. Heckingbottom was a good manager who managed to do similar.

Not sure whether he’s a good manager or not, there’s not a lot to base it on. The A-League is dreadful and his time here has been poor. Poor results and bizarre substitutions, I think he’s got it all to prove here.

Theres a hell of a lot of football to be played before any signings can be made so it’s certainly not a free hit until January. If things carry on as they are he’ll likely be as good as finished before he even gets to make a signing.

Agree with your point re digging a hole for himself though. Resolutely sticking to something that isn’t working and publicly declaring he’ll continue to do so isn’t a good look, especially when you’re looking at a fan base who have watched so many bad managerial appointments recently.

[JimBHibees]

Not sure whether he’s a good manager or not, there’s not a lot to base it on. The A-League is dreadful and his time here has been poor. Poor results and bizarre substitutions, I think he’s got it all to prove here.

Theres a hell of a lot of football to be played before any signings can be made so it’s certainly not a free hit until January. If things carry on as they are he’ll likely be as good as finished before he even gets to make a signing.

Your relentless I will give you that. The A league is not dreadful a fair number of players walk into our league and cope fine from there. Desperate for him to fail. Calm down and give the guy a chance.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Your relentless I will give you that. The A league is not dreadful a fair number of players walk into our league and cope fine from there. Desperate for him to fail. Calm down and give the guy a chance.

As are you. ‘DeSpErAtE fOr HiM tO fAiL’. How many times you going to come out with this pish when someone says something you don’t agree with?

As for the A league being dreadful, some of the better players in that league have come over here like Rowes and Devlin at Hearts and they are no more than decent players for mid table teams. It’s a dreadful league at best on a par with our Championship.

[Since452]

My worry when he appointed him was his lack of experience. I can see why we took a chance on him but for me there was the underlying issue of where he was managing and how many games he had under his belt. This is the big boys league with some very good managers in it that will easily find weaknesses to exploit. I thought there were better options available who knew the league but like i said, i can also see why we went for him. The learning needs to be quick though as i have huge doubts we'll finish top six and could easily be sucked in to a battle at the bottom. I'm not sure we're capable of grinding out wins if that were to happen.

The start of pre season would have been a better time to bring him in but at that time there was still a bit of hope LJ could hit the ground running in the league after a good final 3rd of last season.

Anyway, lets hope he gets a run of results.

[JimBHibees]

As are you. ‘DeSpErAtE fOr HiM tO fAiL’. How many times you going to come out with this pish when someone says something you don’t agree with?

As for the A league being dreadful, some of the better players in that league have come over here like Rowes and Devlin at Hearts and they are no more than decent players for mid table teams. It’s a dreadful league at best on a par with our Championship.

You OK. Think you need to calm down it is only a game of football.

[J-C]

My worry when he appointed him was his lack of experience. I can see why we took a chance on him but for me there was the underlying issue of where he was managing and how many games he had under his belt. This is the big boys league with some very good managers in it that will easily find weaknesses to exploit. I thought there were better options available who knew the league but like i said, i can also see why we went for him. The learning needs to be quick though as i have huge doubts we'll finish top six and could easily be sucked in to a battle at the bottom. I'm not sure we're capable of grinding out wins if that were to happen.

The start of pre season would have been a better time to bring him in but at that time there was still a bit of hope LJ could hit the ground running in the league after a good final 3rd of last season.

Anyway, lets hope he gets a run of results.

Aye, lets go back to the experienced Lee Johnson, that worked out well, no defensive tactics, senior players, in fact nearly all the players not liking him or his tactics but hey ho he had experience. Mowbray and Stubbs were both U21 coaches when they came here but had experience playing at a high level, so too does Montgomery so he knows what it takes to do well at this level. Our squad outside the top 11 is pretty poor as was seen on Saturday, we need 5-6 players which will take at least 2 windows, or we could just scrap it all now and start afresh looking for a new manager, making us even more a laughing stock with the media.

[The Modfather]

My worry when he appointed him was his lack of experience. I can see why we took a chance on him but for me there was the underlying issue of where he was managing and how many games he had under his belt. This is the big boys league with some very good managers in it that will easily find weaknesses to exploit. I thought there were better options available who knew the league but like i said, i can also see why we went for him. The learning needs to be quick though as i have huge doubts we'll finish top six and could easily be sucked in to a battle at the bottom. I'm not sure we're capable of grinding out wins if that were to happen.

The start of pre season would have been a better time to bring him in but at that time there was still a bit of hope LJ could hit the ground running in the league after a good final 3rd of last season.

Anyway, lets hope he gets a run of results.

Lee Johnson was vastly experienced but still finished behind rookies with less experience than Montgomery, in Barry Robson and Steven Naismith, last season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You OK. Think you need to calm down it is only a game of football.

Says the person who goes around hiding behind a faceless account having non stop digs at people giving their opinion on the internet over games of football.

The irony.

[J-C]

Says the person who goes around hiding behind a faceless account having non stop digs at people giving their opinion on the internet over games of football.

The irony.

Says the man commenting from a faceless account 🙄

[Paulie Walnuts]

Says the man commenting from a faceless account 🙄

An account I largely stick to discussing the football from. That’s the difference. :aok:

Other folk have called out JimBHibees recently for his crap as well. I’ll say no more.

[HFC93]

Says the person who goes around hiding behind a faceless account having non stop digs at people giving their opinion on the internet over games of football.

The irony.

I've not been following this but a faceless account acussing someone else of having a faceless acoiunt on forum made up of 90% faceless accounts is quite funny.

[snedzuk]

You're right, an afternoon I chose to wipe from my memory it seems.

Also meaning no goals in 4 out of 5. I spent some time yesterday just thinking through each of our outfield players and came to the conclusion that every one of our starting ten on Saturday would probably get a place in most if not all other squads outside The Rangers and Celtc.

Getting a tune out of them as a team though requires us to appoint Mozart next. It'll be interesting to see how we get on, on Wednesday.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've not been following this but a faceless account acussing someone else of having a faceless acoiunt on forum made up of 90% faceless accounts is quite funny.

Again, the difference is that 90% of the accounts remain civil and discuss the football as the site is intended.

Then you get others who go around making stupid accusations against others because they don’t agree with them, not as the site is intended. Something which I bet they wouldn’t be doing if it wasn’t faceless.

I’ve popped Jim on ignore though so they can make accusations about folk wanting Hibs to fail/being Hearts fans/whatever top piece of patter they come up with next to their hearts content.

Time to get the thread back on topic.

[Allant1981]

Whilst I’m not getting into comparisons with Maloney as I don’t believe they’re particularly similar in the way they manage, Maloney could also point to not losing a massive amount of games. The problem was we never won nearly enough. At this point in time, things are going the same sort of way under Monty in that he just can’t win games.

I don’t think you’d find anyone arguing Maloney was anything but dreadful despite not losing a massive amount of games and I don’t think using one type of result gives any worthwhile indication as to how we’re doing. When you look at all the results, win, lose and draw, it’s been desperately poor.

It’s a bit like when people use win percentages to show how a manager is doing. It tells you how well they’re doing at winning games, but doesn’t tell you how they’re doing overall. For example Monty has managed 7 league games and has a 14% win ratio. That doesn’t tell us though whether he’s picked up 3 points or 9 points or anywhere in between though. Picking out one type of result, such as amount of losses in this case doesn’t come close to telling the whole picture.

Yip not winning is a problem just now but he needs to take the positives to push them on, if we were getting out played and beaten every week I'd he worried(still gutted about saturday) but that's not been the case. Fingers crossed he gets it sorted and we go on a decent run of wins

[JimBHibees]

An account I largely stick to discussing the football from. That’s the difference. :aok:

Other folk have called out JimBHibees recently for his crap as well. I’ll say no more.

:clown:

[One Day Soon]

Faceless accounts, clowns, accusations, earnest debate, amateur investigation, speculation…

This thread is one giant animated dog and some TDD snacks away from being Scooby Doo. I can’t wait for the final reveal with a mask removal and surprised cries of ‘Old man Heckingbottom!’

[JimBHibees]

Faceless accounts, clowns, accusations, earnest debate, amateur investigation, speculation…

This thread is one giant animated dog and some TDD snacks away from being Scooby Doo. I can’t wait for the final reveal with a mask removal and surprised cries of ‘Old man Heckingbottom!’

I blame the meddling kids :greengrin

[Sergio sledge]

Fair points.

To be clear, when I criticise the 4-4-2, I’m in no way saying it’s our only issue. Theres plenty others on top of that. The formation is the only one we can really address just now though and I fear sticking with it will see Montgomery getting to January with a record that he’ll find difficult to come back from. We’ll likely have played 19 games without much happening signing wise unless we have a mass of players ready to play 2nd January before the break kicks in. That’s the same amount of games as Maloney got and people were fairly unanimous in thinking his time was up when he got sacked. I’d argue the majority had made up their mind after about game 14 or 15, and Monty is only 5 or 6 games away from that point with a much better squad and a worse record.

If he wants to be a success here then he’ll need to have a big turnaround before January imo or else he’ll not recover from it.

I 100% agree that NM's record could, and probably should, be better than it is at the minute, and I appreciate that this is probably going to be a bit like two bald men arguing over a comb but.... I think it is a bit unfair to suggest NM's record is worse than Maloney's at this stage.

Taking all games into account they are almost identical, Maloney is 0.04ppg better than NM, NM's team is scoring more goals, but also conceding more goals, interestingly the goal difference per game is almost exactly the same (-0.11).

None of that sounds very good for either, but it is important to note that Maloney had 2 games against lower league opposition in the cup in his run of games (both wins) which NM hasn't had the benefit of. To fairly compare apples with apples, if we take those two games out of his record and only count games against top flight opposition (treating any cup games as league games and assigning league points to them) it is worse than NM's, by 0.16ppg and goal difference is worse by 0.18 goals per game. Meaning that if they both had a full season of 38 games at that rate, NM's team would get 6 points more than Maloney's. NM also has had 22% of his games against the OF (bang on what you would expect over the season if we are making the top 6), whereas Maloney only had 18% so that will make a bit of a difference as well.

It really isn't much to shout about :greengrin, but is slightly better.

[WhileTheChief..]

Then you get others who go around making stupid accusations against others because they don’t agree with them, not as the site is intended.

:top marks

Happens way too often these days.

[Bridge hibs]

Aberdeen might have had more shots on target but we had more clear cut chances, our execution just wasn’t good enough.

Youan should have scored in the first half. Vente should have scored, Tavares should have done better with his chance. That’s three huge chances in a game like that all before Miovski had, and took, his chance. Chuck in the VAR intervention and non intervention as well. Then there was the chance Youan had right after they scored when Newell played him in and he took a bad touch. I didn’t realise until I saw it back but it’s probably the biggest chance of the lot, even if it didn’t even result in a shot. If he takes a proper touch he’s got a free shot from about 8 yards out.

I think it’s far too simplistic to say that a change of shape has us more dominant. We were playing against a back 5 and still managed to create a number of clear openings inside their box. The issue was not taking those chances.

If I’m picking a Hibs team from what we have I’m going with a front three of Vente, Boyle and Youan. But I’m still sceptical that playing a different shape would have things looking much different, we’re just not clinical enough at either end of the pitch.Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things but if Livescore is to be believed then they didnt have more shots on target and overall they didnt have more shots than hibs throughout the 90+ mins played

They got the all important winning goal and we didnt which is gutting

27364

[Paulie Walnuts]

I 100% agree that NM's record could, and probably should, be better than it is at the minute, and I appreciate that this is probably going to be a bit like two bald men arguing over a comb but.... I think it is a bit unfair to suggest NM's record is worse than Maloney's at this stage.

Taking all games into account they are almost identical, Maloney is 0.04ppg better than NM, NM's team is scoring more goals, but also conceding more goals, interestingly the goal difference per game is almost exactly the same (-0.11).

None of that sounds very good for either, but it is important to note that Maloney had 2 games against lower league opposition in the cup in his run of games (both wins) which NM hasn't had the benefit of. To fairly compare apples with apples, if we take those two games out of his record and only count games against top flight opposition (treating any cup games as league games and assigning league points to them) it is worse than NM's, by 0.16ppg and goal difference is worse by 0.18 goals per game. Meaning that if they both had a full season of 38 games at that rate, NM's team would get 6 points more than Maloney's. NM also has had 22% of his games against the OF (bang on what you would expect over the season if we are making the top 6), whereas Maloney only had 18% so that will make a bit of a difference as well.

It really isn't much to shout about :greengrin, but is slightly better.

All fair points :agree:

Like you said, still not necessarily anything to shout about. I just look at Monty and his pig headed refusal to change from 4-4-2 as being something that could ruin him before he even gets to the transfer window. If results don’t pick up he’ll be 18 games deep and by that point peoples minds are made up, especially if we keep not winning games and he doesn’t appear to do anything to change it as has been the case so far.

Hes got a squad that’s had a hell of a lot of money ploughed into it and scrapping about in the bottom 6 whilst he can’t get most of our best players playing all that well won’t be enough to stop the inevitable calls for him to go if things don’t change imo. The calls for Maloney to go started after about 12 games, the calls for LJ started after about 15 or 20 (sure it was about October that it was first suggested). History would suggest he’s starting to get closer and closer to those sort of amounts of games where folk start to make their mind up and his current record isn’t going him any favours.

Again, just to be clear, I’m not comparing him as a manager to Maloney, more the situations they inherited.

[LaMotta]

I 100% agree that NM's record could, and probably should, be better than it is at the minute, and I appreciate that this is probably going to be a bit like two bald men arguing over a comb but.... I think it is a bit unfair to suggest NM's record is worse than Maloney's at this stage.

Taking all games into account they are almost identical, Maloney is 0.04ppg better than NM, NM's team is scoring more goals, but also conceding more goals, interestingly the goal difference per game is almost exactly the same (-0.11).

None of that sounds very good for either, but it is important to note that Maloney had 2 games against lower league opposition in the cup in his run of games (both wins) which NM hasn't had the benefit of. To fairly compare apples with apples, if we take those two games out of his record and only count games against top flight opposition (treating any cup games as league games and assigning league points to them) it is worse than NM's, by 0.16ppg and goal difference is worse by 0.18 goals per game. Meaning that if they both had a full season of 38 games at that rate, NM's team would get 6 points more than Maloney's. NM also has had 22% of his games against the OF (bang on what you would expect over the season if we are making the top 6), whereas Maloney only had 18% so that will make a bit of a difference as well.

It really isn't much to shout about :greengrin, but is slightly better.

Couple of reasons why I'm far more confident with NM in charge over Maloney.

1) NM is a far better communicator than Maloney. Maloney was hard to take seriously on this front.
2) I've read that people love working under him and there is a felgood factor at ER. With Maloney Id heard morale was not great in the camp.
3) NM has built a succesful team before.

[Sergio sledge]

Couple of reasons why I'm far more confident with NM in charge over Maloney.

1) NM is a far better communicator than Maloney. Maloney was hard to take seriously on this front.
2) I've read that people love working under him and there is a felgood factor at ER. With Maloney Id heard morale was not great in the camp.
3) NM has built a succesful team before.

Yeah agree with this. I have more confidence than I had with Maloney, but this is based purely on watching and listening to both, so could be completely wrong... :greengrin

[Sergio sledge]

All fair points :agree:

Like you said, still not necessarily anything to shout about. I just look at Monty and his pig headed refusal to change from 4-4-2 as being something that could ruin him before he even gets to the transfer window. If results don’t pick up he’ll be 18 games deep and by that point peoples minds are made up, especially if we keep not winning games and he doesn’t appear to do anything to change it as has been the case so far.

Hes got a squad that’s had a hell of a lot of money ploughed into it and scrapping about in the bottom 6 whilst he can’t get most of our best players playing all that well won’t be enough to stop the inevitable calls for him to go if things don’t change imo. The calls for Maloney to go started after about 12 games, the calls for LJ started after about 15 or 20 (sure it was about October that it was first suggested). History would suggest he’s starting to get closer and closer to those sort of amounts of games where folk start to make their mind up and his current record isn’t going him any favours.

Again, just to be clear, I’m not comparing him as a manager to Maloney, more the situations they inherited.

Yeah, unfortunately the nature of football now means that people make their minds up on people after no time at all, and it is extremely difficult to win people back once you've started to lose them.

A couple of wins this week and things will look a lot better. :agree:

[FC1875]

Will he be a success? Yet another draw when we need wins to climb the table?

I'm not convinced personally, and think its clear we are a poorer team from last season.

[Jones28]

Will he be a success? Yet another draw when we need wins to climb the table?

I'm not convinced personally, and think its clear we are a poorer team from last season.

I think it’s mental to say we look a poorer team.

[Trinity Hibee]

Will he be a success? Yet another draw when we need wins to climb the table?

I'm not convinced personally, and think its clear we are a poorer team from last season.

Said it the other day that this has the Maloney appointment written all over it. What we needed was a man manager who can get more out of what we have and organise a side. Mcinnes was that man for me but that ship has sailed. Far too many experimental appointments causing us massive long term headaches on the playing side

[AL-Qaholik]

Youan screwed us again but Montgomery’s substitutions are amateur at best.

[ChuckNor]

He’s done it again with the subs. Why oh why are you bringing Landers on in that situation? Utterly bizarre. He’s got a lot to do to convince me now. An unbelievably poor start.

[Nicho87]

He’s been there two months.

Any decent coach improves a team fairly quickly, call it even new manager bounce.

One win at home to st Johnstone is alarming.

Genuine question, at what point do hibs push the panic button? February once he has got a few bodies in and still languishing near the wrong end?

[Keepthefaith]

Youan screwed us again but Montgomery’s substitutions are amateur at best.

how is bringing on jeggo and miller amateur? two defensive established players? you only appear when the chips are down...

[Trinity Hibee]

He’s been there two months.

Any decent coach improves a team fairly quickly, call it even new manager bounce.

One win at home to st Johnstone is alarming.

Genuine question, at what point do hibs push the panic button? February once he has got a few bodies in and still languishing near the wrong end?

We are chaotic as a club with recruitment of managers and players. Fan power will push another manager out before the end of the season rightly or wrongly.

[H18 SFR]

NM is going to substitute his way towards the bottom end of the table and ultimately out of a job.

[Since452]

Sick of hearing this guy is a good manager. The good managers make players believe they can win games. How many have we bottled under this guy now? The buck stops with him.

[flash]

Sick of hearing this guy is a good manager. The good managers make players believe they can win games. How many have we bottled under this guy now? The buck stops with him.
You said before the game you would be happy with a draw.

[AL-Qaholik]

how is bringing on jeggo and miller amateur? two defensive established players? you only appear when the chips are down...

The Landers substitution is amateur.
His subs against Ross County killed us.

Couldn’t give a flying **** about your opinion on my appearances.

[Nicho87]

We are chaotic as a club with recruitment of managers and players. Fan power will push another manager out before the end of the season rightly or wrongly.

If hibs are roughly 4/5 points above the play off position in feb / March time I hope hibs are looking at removing him.

[Trinity Hibee]

If hibs are finishing 4/5 points above the play off position in feb / March time I hope hibs are looking at removing him.

In that scenario we would be right to punt him. We’ll probably end up being safe from bottom 2 but be nowhere near 3rd so we’ll roll into the start of next season as we did this year.

[NC1875]

Youans lax attitude has cost us again. Not NM

[H18 SFR]

He’s not going to be here long term, it’s a matter of when. He just can’t win games.

[Heisenberg]

Sick of hearing this guy is a good manager. The good managers make players believe they can win games. How many have we bottled under this guy now? The buck stops with him.

Sick of you not giving him the slightest chance. Been after him since day one.

[Baader]

Was excited by the Monty appointment and he has my backing, will need time. But it's fair to say I expected better than this.

My main concern stems from his refusal to even contemplate another system or formation. A manager may have his preference but his job right now is to get the best out of the squad he has. If that means playing a system he doesn't like then he needs to do that. Coaches should be flexible and dynamic and it just makes him look one dimensional - like he doesn't know any other way to play and that's a worry.

Hoping it all clicks into place soon. It probably has to for his sake to be honest.

[Nicho87]

Youans lax attitude has cost us again. Not NM

What about the other defeats and draws.

All bad luck?

[truehibernian]

He’s inherited a team of individuals with no winners or leaders. Something he’ll sort in the next two windows 👍

[Boyle89]

Vente sub you can probably say was wrong but the goals were all on the players. Brainless obita, after his pathetic effort on Saturday to track back. Then youan just losing the ball and not bothering his arse to try get back. I have my doubt about NM but that wasn't his fault tonight.

[Unseen work]

He just seems to make subs that refuse to make the game that but easier.

I’m not saying Landers is at fault btw, but 2-1 up with a short amount of time left and you take Vente off. Surely it’s Boyle that goes on?

Would make the st Mirren defence scared, threaten in behind and hold on to it

[RossScott1991]

Here they all come the doom and gloomers. Youan cost us tonight not Monty. It was a fairly decent performance at a tough place to go. He brought on miller and jeggo at the right time. Youan with a stupid attempt at dribbling getting caught has cost his team tonight

[tonyrougier123]

The positives are there for anyone who wants to see them,for the ones who never see them same dire posts,same usernames.

Individual error has cost us in last two games,we are a better organised side now than we have been since Ross was manager.

I’m not happy at results but I’m happy with how team is looking.

Folk forget st mirren are ripping it up just now and we’ve nearly slipped them if not for an unfortunate error,again.

Be patient and see the positives. So many posters far too negative by default.

[Malthibby]

how is bringing on jeggo and miller amateur? two defensive established players? you only appear when the chips are down...

He means Landers of course, we are down to the bare bones when we bring a young guy with almost no experience to lead the line near the end of a game like that, the bench had no experience up front given Boyle clearly wasn't fit to start. Boyle, Le Fondre, Doidge, McKirdy all out. No-one left.
Defenders? Harbottle? Cadden, Lewis & Paul.
Folk are entitled to feel sore at the moment but we just have no depth. Our first eleven are a match for anyone outside Them but you can't last a season with eleven guys.
Persevere.

[LaMotta]

Here they all come the doom and gloomers. Youan cost us tonight not Monty. It was a fairly decent performance at a tough place to go. He brought on miller and jeggo at the right time. Youan with a stupid attempt at dribbling getting caught has cost his team tonight

Why not take Youan off? Everyone knows he has a mistake in him and is poor defensively.

Youan is there for a bit of magic to help you score and win games. He did that bit that got us in the lead - so take him off.

[JammyDoidger]

His game management is shocking, i said from his very first home game when he brought on Whittaker he's either brave or stupid, his subs now are pointing towards the latter, he's costing us points with his game management.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It'll be OK. We can't continue being this unlucky. NM hasn't helped himself with some of his subs and game management but I do like a lot of what I'm seeing. I think the results will come, and of course this isn't his team.

[Winston Ingram]

I think it’s mental to say we look a poorer team.

It’s just as mental to suggest we’ve improved.

[Hibs90]

Sick of hearing this guy is a good manager. The good managers make players believe they can win games. How many have we bottled under this guy now? The buck stops with him.

You literally said you’d be happy with the draw and you’ve had your knives out for him since day 1.

It’s not his fault the squad lacks quality and depth in many positions. The players are simply not good enough to be where we expect to be. Marshall is past his best and has the worst save % in the league. Fish has been woeful. Obita okay going forward but terrible defensively. Hanlon past his best. Miller has been okay but there are multiple weaknesses in his game. The midfield is poor and Newell shoes up once every 3 or 4 games. Jeggo does his role perfectly fine but is not up to the quality required to get us to third. Only Boyle, who has returned from a serious injury, Youan who we know is hit or miss and Vente have the quality required. Levitt is still early days.

The bench with or without injuries is weak. This was a squad that lost in Andorra and lost the first three games of the season against supposed weaker teams. The effort and commitment is there but they lack the quality and mental strength required. None of that is on NM.

[McGruber]

Fully expected Hibs to win tonight beforehand. Game played out exactly as I thought it would. Good performance after the disappointment of the semi and winning away to a very decent St Mirren team with 90 played. Late individual error has cost us the 3 points (some subs with a bit of a supporting role in it).

Yes the mood is distraught to be throwing it away again, piss poor game management and frustration and anger.

Lots to like in it aswell as the negatives.

I think we are coming to a real crossroad for the season - 4 points out of St Mirren and Killie is good, international break to regroup and use that momentum to go on a good run. Fail to beat Killie and it could send us into the break on a low and send us into a tailspin.

All games are big games, they are all 3 points - this Killie game could be pivitol in setting the tone.

[HibbyDave]

I’m very comfy with NM.

We have to give time to see change.

[Not In The Know]

I think he’s the man for the job. He’s a million miles better than our last few managers. I am tho slightly perplexed how all of a sudden we only have mostly 16 year old subs these days?

[Hibeewilly]

He just seems to make subs that refuse to make the game that but easier.

I’m not saying Landers is at fault btw, but 2-1 up with a short amount of time left and you take Vente off. Surely it’s Boyle that goes on?

Would make the st Mirren defence scared, threaten in behind and hold on to it
Spot on UW. His substitutions have been rank since he came in. And his insistence on playing youngsters who are out of their depth bothers me. Let's see what he does in the January window. The trouble is hardly any good players become available then unless you're prepared to spend money

[GreenCastle]

Change shape and bring experience on - it’s really not that hard.

There is a time and place for 16 year olds and it’s not semi finals and St Mirren away when we need to keep the ball.

[coldingham hibs]

Sick of hearing NM saying it’s a good point in all these games we are throwing away 3 points. It’s not a good point it’s dire.

[TrinityHFC]

I think he’s the man for the job. He’s a million miles better than our last few managers. I am tho slightly perplexed how all of a sudden we only have mostly 16 year old subs these days?

Okay, I get the argument for time but I really don’t get what anyone can have seen so far to say he’s a million times better than recent managers. That’s just not credible.

[Crunchie]

Sick of you not giving him the slightest chance. Been after him since day one.
He's not the only one either, it's crap patter.

[K-Zazu]

Why bring a 16 year old striker on?

[Nicho87]

His stubborness to change how we play even after we lead is costing us.

I’m still recovering from the Ross county the most out of the last 3 results.

If he brings a midfielder on for a striker we would win that game 2-0.

Gray must be saying to him you would think we need to change it when leading.

[Greenio]

It's your standard overreacting wet the bed sack em all never a player relegation material chat from people that love to moan and point the finger kinda stuff.

Can't deny anyone their chance to vent really it's what footballs for

[Carheenlea]

Desperately needs a win.

We’re good to watch at times and the style he’s trying to implement is clear to see. Worryingly though he’s on a similar run of games without a win that was to cost Maloney his job. If we don’t win on Saturday I think that run is matched.

What kind of funds will be available to make January changes isn’t really that clear, but he’ll hopefully have some targets in mind that can step things up a bit. A couple of points off of second bottom after a dozen games is not where I was expecting us to be.

I think we would probably have won a game or two with LJ, but we need to play the long game. Let the manager rebuild his squad over January and see where we go.
If we’re still a couple of points ahead of second bottom in March then that’ll be the time for David Gray to get his emergency managers kitbag looked out again. Im sure this’ll come good and that the kit won’t be required.

[Keepthefaith]

Change shape and bring experience on - it’s really not that hard.

There is a time and place for 16 year olds and it’s not semi finals and St Mirren away when we need to keep the ball.

FFS two out of 3 subs were our first choice players! Can't legislate for youan giving up possession again to go on and concede. Only argument you could have is that he should have come off given what happened on Saturday.

We played well and should have won. We need to build something sustainable not something which has the new manager bounce and tails off.

When folk slate him for leads list no one praises him for coming back at tynecastle or being just the second team to take a point off Celtic in that run!

Support base needs some perspective. I find it interesting that hecky is so far being given time at Sheffield utd, he may yet save them from relegation. Our fans would have him punted from there too!

[AL-Qaholik]

His interviews also make him sound like he’s been completely beaten down by the ineptitude/corruption in Scottish football already.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he walks sooner rather than later.

[The Spaceman]

It'll be OK. We can't continue being this unlucky. NM hasn't helped himself with some of his subs and game management but I do like a lot of what I'm seeing. I think the results will come, and of course this isn't his team.

Agreed. He can’t help Youan miss-dribbling with nobody near him.

[LaMotta]

FFS two out of 3 subs were our first choice players! Can't legislate for youan giving up possession again to go on and concede. Only argument you could have is that he should have come off given what happened on Saturday.

We played well and should have won. We need to build something sustainable not something which has the new manager bounce and tails off.

When folk slate him for leads list no one praises him for coming back at tynecastle or being just the second team to take a point off Celtic in that run!

Support base needs some perspective. I find it interesting that hecky is so far being given time at Sheffield utd, he may yet save them from relegation. Our fans would have him punted from there too!


Sheffield United are gone - no way are they staying up!

[Lago]

He's not the only one either, it's crap patter.
Yip there are a few, went quiet for a short while, but back with a vengeance.