So the runners and riders are...

[archie]

Anyone who has seen my posts here will know I have no inside track on how this might play out. But as an interested observer, here's my initial thoughts on potential candidates.

Kate Forbes: Comes over quite well and is clearly bright. Young and obviously would have a strong appeal in the Highlands. Has already been the subject of negative briefing on how she rose so quickly and was invisible on GRR. Some members may have views on her faith.

Humsa Yousaf: Comes over well in a slightly laddish way. Has had big jobs, though there are conflicting views on how successful. Would show inclusivity. Probably regrets suing the nursery. His trolling of Rangers fans will appeal to some, but might put others off. Does he have the gravitas?

Ash Regan: Youngish, relatable and has a recent history of principled action. Comes from a left background. Not much profile before resigning. Some members may see her as disloyal and wouldn't be popular with supporters of the GR legislation (which could lead to issues on the FM vote). Had some pushback on privately educating her kids. Don't know if that's an issue now.


Angus Robertson: Comes over as quite cerebral. I'm less sure how much he connects 'ordinary members'. Loyal to NS, but does carry some baggage , including with Joanna Cherry over the selection for his seat.

Keith Brown: Been around and has held key posts. Comes over OK I think? Maybe seen as too much back to the future?

Mhari Black: I think she would be popular with some sections of the party. Very inexperienced and crucially, is in Westminster. I just don't see how that would work. It would need a deputy in Holyrood who would get all the attention. So I would suspect it won't be an MP.

As ever look forward to reading views and comments.

[Stairway 2 7]

Anyone who has seen my posts here will know I have no inside track on how this might play out. But as an interested observer, here's my initial thoughts on potential candidates.

Kate Forbes: Comes over quite well and is clearly bright. Young and obviously would have a strong appeal in the Highlands. Has already been the subject of negative briefing on how she rose so quickly and was invisible on GRR. Some members may have views on her faith.

Humsa Yousaf: Comes over well in a slightly laddish way. Has had big jobs, though there are conflicting views on how successful. Would show inclusivity. Probably regrets suing the nursery. His trolling of Rangers fans will appeal to some, but might put others off. Does he have the gravitas?

Ash Regan: Youngish, relatable and has a recent history of principled action. Comes from a left background. Not much profile before resigning. Some members may see her as disloyal and wouldn't be popular with supporters of the GR legislation (which could lead to issues on the FM vote). Had some pushback on privately educating her kids. Don't know if that's an issue now.


Angus Robertson: Comes over as quite cerebral. I'm less sure how much he connects 'ordinary members'. Loyal to NS, but does carry some baggage , including with Joanna Cherry over the selection for his seat.

Keith Brown: Been around and has held key posts. Comes over OK I think? Maybe seen as too much back to the future?

Mhari Black: I think she would be popular with some sections of the party. Very inexperienced and crucially, is in Westminster. I just don't see how that would work. It would need a deputy in Holyrood who would get all the attention. So I would suspect it won't be an MP.

As ever look forward to reading views and comments.

Thinking more on it. The right wing media were Sturgeons biggest attackers. Kate Forbes might be an absolute nightmare for them as they absolutely don't want to touch mocking the religious

[James310]

Who elects the next leader? The party members or the MSPs?

[Ryan91]

Thinking more on it. The right wing media were Sturgeons biggest attackers. Kate Forbes might be an absolute nightmare for them as they absolutely don't want to touch mocking the religious

They'd probably still find a way, the mere fact that Ms Forbes is female, Scottish and pro-independence, is enough to boil their blood.

She seems like a good candidate, but will her religious affiliation cause issues with younger members of the SNP who are overwhelmingly pro-LGBT+, I wonder?

Whomever succeeds NS as FM has massive shoes to fill

[Ozyhibby]

Anyone who has seen my posts here will know I have no inside track on how this might play out. But as an interested observer, here's my initial thoughts on potential candidates.

Kate Forbes: Comes over quite well and is clearly bright. Young and obviously would have a strong appeal in the Highlands. Has already been the subject of negative briefing on how she rose so quickly and was invisible on GRR. Some members may have views on her faith.

Humsa Yousaf: Comes over well in a slightly laddish way. Has had big jobs, though there are conflicting views on how successful. Would show inclusivity. Probably regrets suing the nursery. His trolling of Rangers fans will appeal to some, but might put others off. Does he have the gravitas?

Ash Regan: Youngish, relatable and has a recent history of principled action. Comes from a left background. Not much profile before resigning. Some members may see her as disloyal and wouldn't be popular with supporters of the GR legislation (which could lead to issues on the FM vote). Had some pushback on privately educating her kids. Don't know if that's an issue now.


Angus Robertson: Comes over as quite cerebral. I'm less sure how much he connects 'ordinary members'. Loyal to NS, but does carry some baggage , including with Joanna Cherry over the selection for his seat.

Keith Brown: Been around and has held key posts. Comes over OK I think? Maybe seen as too much back to the future?

Mhari Black: I think she would be popular with some sections of the party. Very inexperienced and crucially, is in Westminster. I just don't see how that would work. It would need a deputy in Holyrood who would get all the attention. So I would suspect it won't be an MP.

As ever look forward to reading views and comments.

Forbes :- could be good, needs to get back to work.(sexist comment[emoji6])
Yousef:- nope, not good enough.
Regan:- no support in the party.
Robertson:- no, needs to move to the next generation now.
Brown:- same.
Black:- looks good at ‘winning’ debates but can she persuade? I doubt she brings in floating voters to the tent.
Macdonald:- like a lot of what he has said recently. Gradualist like me, so has that in his favour. Low profile.
Flynn:- been quietly impressed with him so far but might be too early after taking a top job.


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[Lendo]

Has Cherry ruled out running? Thought she would be on the list and would get my vote.

[Ozyhibby]

Has Cherry ruled out running? Thought she would be on the list and would get my vote.

I wouldn’t have her. Don’t think the party will either. It would be a short leadership.


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[Santa Cruz]

Has Cherry ruled out running? Thought she would be on the list and would get my vote.


She's need a seat to become available and then there's the Party selection process to go through to be able to stand as a candidate. I'd back her for her FM, she's very intelligent, doesn't appear to give a hoot about personal popularity ratings and more importantly doesn't strike me as someone who suffers fools. She'd get the country moving and would demand high standards of governance. Actually wish she'd jump ship to Labour but never gonna happen :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

She's need a seat to become available and then there's the Party selection process to go through to be able to stand as a candidate. I'd back her for her FM, she's very intelligent, doesn't appear to give a hoot about personal popularity ratings and more importantly doesn't strike me as someone who suffers fools. She'd get the country moving and would demand high standards of governance. Actually wish she'd jump ship to Labour but never gonna happen :greengrin

A politician not worried about popularity is why she won’t get it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Forbes :- could be good, needs to get back to work.(sexist comment[emoji6])
Yousef:- nope, not good enough.
Regan:- no support in the party.
Robertson:- no, needs to move to the next generation now.
Brown:- same.
Black:- looks good at ‘winning’ debates but can she persuade? I doubt she brings in floating voters to the tent.
Macdonald:- like a lot of what he has said recently. Gradualist like me, so has that in his favour. Low profile.
Flynn:- been quietly impressed with him so far but might be too early after taking a top job.


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I said similar on the other thread but it's a pity it'd early for Flynn. Perhaps NS will stay on for a while and it will increase his chances. Getting photoed with Zelensky last week and making an impression at Westminster, another 6 months of hammering the sitting duck Sunak on TV and I think he'd be a favourite

[Zambernardi1875]

Lorraine Kelly
Ewan McGregor
Jack n Victor

They would win the votes needed to get independence

[Ozyhibby]

I said similar on the other thread but it's a pity it'd early for Flynn. Perhaps NS will stay on for a while and it will increase his chances. Getting photoed with Zelensky last week and making an impression at Westminster, another 6 months of hammering the sitting duck Sunak on TV and I think he'd be a favourite

He might still go for it.
To be honest, I’m not quite sure of the rules for the race.


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[grunt]

She's need a seat to become available and then there's the Party selection process to go through to be able to stand as a candidate. I'd back her for her FM, she's very intelligent, doesn't appear to give a hoot about personal popularity ratings and more importantly doesn't strike me as someone who suffers fools. She'd get the country moving and would demand high standards of governance. Actually wish she'd jump ship to Labour but never gonna happen :greengrinWhy does she seem to have such an intense dislike for NS? Do you know?

[Ozyhibby]

He might still go for it.
To be honest, I’m not quite sure of the rules for the race.


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Just looked it up and it’s just a flat out vote among the members. One member one vote.


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[James310]

We can surely assume we are heading for an election then as it would be fairly hypocritical of the SNP to elect the new FM based on a tiny % of the population. I have no idea how many members the SNP have but I am guessing it's nowhere near as many they had a few years back.

[Santa Cruz]

Why does she seem to have such an intense dislike for NS? Do you know?

Only what I've read, so couldn't say how accurate it is. She felt let down that the FM didn't speak out when she received death threats over her views on women's safe spaces re: gender reform legislation. Think she feels she was isolated by the Party when moved to the back benches and that decision could have came from more senior people in the SNP not necessarily a WM SNP decision. Does sound like NS didn't have a lot of time for her, but who knows how true the articles are you read. I haven't heard her speak about it, maybe other have?

[weecounty hibby]

We can surely assume we are heading for an election then as it would be fairly hypocritical of the SNP to elect the new FM based on a tiny % of the population. I have no idea how many members the SNP have but I am guessing it's nowhere near as many they had a few years back.

The members elect the leader of the party the MSPs will elect the FM. If you remember when Nicola was elected she stood against Ruth Davidson. So actually the MSPS elect the FM. Nominations for FM will be asked for. I'm sure Douglas Ross will put himself forward

[James310]

The members elect the leader the MSPs will elect the FM. If you remember when Nicola was elected she stood against Ruth Davidson. So actually the MSPS elect the FM

But it's a fait accompli whoever is elected as leader will become FM.

[weecounty hibby]

But it's a fait accompli whoever is elected as leader will become FM.

But that's not what you said

[James310]

But that's not what you said

Oh ok.

[Stairway 2 7]

The members elect the leader of the party the MSPs will elect the FM. If you remember when Nicola was elected she stood against Ruth Davidson. So actually the MSPS elect the FM. Nominations for FM will be asked for. I'm sure Douglas Ross will put himself forward

It should get put to the public NS had the mandate, I said the same when that bam Truss waltzed in

[weecounty hibby]

Oh ok.

Its not. You said that the SNP members would elect the next FM. That statement is false. They will elect a leader, MSPs of all parties will vote for the new FM. Even you must be able to see the difference in what you said and what will actually happen

[James310]

Its not. You said that the SNP members would elect the next FM. That statement is false. They will elect a leader, MSPs of all parties will vote for the new FM. Even you must be able to see the difference in what you said and what will actually happen

Ok

[grunt]

Only what I've read, so couldn't say how accurate it is. She felt let down that the FM didn't speak out when she received death threats over her views on women's safe spaces re: gender reform legislation.
Ive heard this too, but her beef with NS goes back long before the GRR bill. I think that JC seemed to be in the Salmond camp and she thinks NS had something to do with his downfall. Whatever, JC is hardly a candidate for FM IMO. She has too many people she's angry with.

[weecounty hibby]

Ok

Hahaha. You are funny. Can you not just for once in your life admit when you have made **** up. You categorically said that a small percentage of the electorate, snp members, will elect the FM. That is 100% factually incorrect. The next FM will be voted in by a majority of MPs

[James310]

Hahaha. You are funny. Can you not just for once in your life admit when you have made **** up. You categorically said that a small percentage of the electorate, snp members, will elect the FM. That is 100% factually incorrect. The next FM will be voted in by a majority of MPs

👍

[grunt]

I have no idea how many members the SNP have but I am guessing it's nowhere near as many they had a few years back.:greengrin

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05125/assets/99a81cdc-88df-4993-8992-3668bf00bb89.png

[archie]

Hahaha. You are funny. Can you not just for once in your life admit when you have made **** up. You categorically said that a small percentage of the electorate, snp members, will elect the FM. That is 100% factually incorrect. The next FM will be voted in by a majority of MPsIn normal times I would say you were being a bit nit-picking (although FM is voted for by MSPs ;-). But do you see a circumstance where someone could be elected as the leader of the party by members, but the parliamentary party wouldn't? I'm thinking if someone stood on a water down gender reform. Might there be a problem as the Greens and some SNP MSPs would have issues with that?

[James310]

:greengrin

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05125/assets/99a81cdc-88df-4993-8992-3668bf00bb89.png

What was the most recent membership data? Is that last year, the year before? Seems to be no source at all for that graph which is odd.

[Stairway 2 7]

Any snp member who was shouting about Truss needing a mandate from the public at large, who now says the first minister won't is simply a hypocrite

[grunt]

What was the most recent membership data? Is that last year, the year before? Seems to be no source at all for that graph which is odd.
The graph is from the House of Commons library. Do you think they're lying?
Latest numbers I can find - 31/12/2020 105,000 members, 31/12/2021 103,000 members.

[Ozyhibby]

In normal times I would say you were being a bit nit-picking (although FM is voted for by MSPs ;-). But do you see a circumstance where someone could be elected as the leader of the party by members, but the parliamentary party wouldn't? I'm thinking if someone stood on a water down gender reform. Might there be a problem as the Greens and some SNP MSPs would have issues with that?

Yes. I don’t like omov for leaders. Should be the parliamentary group. They are the people who will have to work with the new leader and support the new leader.


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[Santa Cruz]

The graph is from the Electoral Commission. Do you think they're lying?
Latest numbers I can find - 31/12/2020 105,000 members, 31/12/2021 103,000 members.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05125/

[James310]

The graph is from the Electoral Commission. Do you think they're lying?
Latest numbers I can find - 31/12/2020 105,000 members, 31/12/2021 103,000 members.

No I don't, normally there is a source but you supplied that so thanks. I was correct then in thinking the numbers had declined as it was 125,000 at end of 2019.

[grunt]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05125/You're right, it was the HoC Library, not the Electoral Commission.

[Hibrandenburg]

Hahaha. You are funny. Can you not just for once in your life admit when you have made **** up. You categorically said that a small percentage of the electorate, snp members, will elect the FM. That is 100% factually incorrect. The next FM will be voted in by a majority of MPs

Don't feed the :troll:

[Ozyhibby]

Don't feed the :troll:

Putting trolls on ignore is good for you.[emoji106] Makes reading the opinions of others a lot more pleasant experience.


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[hibby rae]

Anyone who has seen my posts here will know I have no inside track on how this might play out. But as an interested observer, here's my initial thoughts on potential candidates.

Kate Forbes: Comes over quite well and is clearly bright. Young and obviously would have a strong appeal in the Highlands. Has already been the subject of negative briefing on how she rose so quickly and was invisible on GRR. Some members may have views on her faith.

Humsa Yousaf: Comes over well in a slightly laddish way. Has had big jobs, though there are conflicting views on how successful. Would show inclusivity. Probably regrets suing the nursery. His trolling of Rangers fans will appeal to some, but might put others off. Does he have the gravitas?

Ash Regan: Youngish, relatable and has a recent history of principled action. Comes from a left background. Not much profile before resigning. Some members may see her as disloyal and wouldn't be popular with supporters of the GR legislation (which could lead to issues on the FM vote). Had some pushback on privately educating her kids. Don't know if that's an issue now.


Angus Robertson: Comes over as quite cerebral. I'm less sure how much he connects 'ordinary members'. Loyal to NS, but does carry some baggage , including with Joanna Cherry over the selection for his seat.

Keith Brown: Been around and has held key posts. Comes over OK I think? Maybe seen as too much back to the future?

Mhari Black: I think she would be popular with some sections of the party. Very inexperienced and crucially, is in Westminster. I just don't see how that would work. It would need a deputy in Holyrood who would get all the attention. So I would suspect it won't be an MP.

As ever look forward to reading views and comments.

Obama only did one term as a US Senator before becoming POTUS, only 11 years in total including Illinois Senate. Black is 7 years in already.

[Ozyhibby]

Obama only did one term as a US Senator before becoming POTUS, only 11 years in total including Illinois Senate. Black is 7 years in already.

Just don’t see her as a vote winner type. More attack dog.


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[Pretty Boy]

It will never happen and it's something that many will argue would be political suicide but I'd like to see a new leader take any timescale for a referendum and independence off the table in the short to medium term.

Increasingly my fear has been that there just isn't the scope to change the opinions off the tens, if not hundreds of thousands the yes side needs to move to secure a resounding victory. Scraping a victory by 1% or whatever would be hollow and much like with the slim margin of Brexit wouldn't really see any willingness to move on (that shouldn't be read as tacit approval of Brexit btw). Whether people like it or not support for independence is largely stagnant, every shift in the UK political landscape, every new PM, the Supreme Court decision etc etc was definitely going to be the thing that saw a huge surge in support but it has never materialised at any sustained level. The vast majority of people are quite evidently stuck in their viewpoint and that isn't changing in the next couple of years.

I'd genuinely like to see a period of 5 years of trying to grow support for independence to consistently upwards of 55-60% without actively campaigning for a referendum. Achieve it by undertaking a real drive to build Scotland into a country with the base principles of democratic socialism, accepting the limitations of working both within the free market and as part of the UK, but using the economy as a slave rather than it being the master. Continued attempts to bring vital public services into nationalised ownership, a commitment to free public transport, high quality social housing, reforming the housing market etc etc.

There are people who won't like or ever accept a pause. The people with their Civil Rights Movement badges desperately invoking imagery and language more suited to Northern Ireland in the 60s and 70s rather than Scotland in the 2020s. I believe that is a lunatic fringe though and whilst more moderate voices may not like it, perhaps they could be convinced if support for independence started to tick upwards steadily.

Nicola Sturgeon deserves credit for the part she played in growing support for independence since 2011, few could have expected that was possible. The limitations of that approach are clear now though and we have reached the point where continuing down the same path is not having any significant impact. my approach may well be folly and I daresay few will have any enthusiasm for it but anyone coming in and trying to demand de facto referendums and put a timescale on achieving a binding one is guilty of an equal folly imo.

[GreenGray]

Any snp member who was shouting about Truss needing a mandate from the public at large, who now says the first minister won't is simply a hypocrite

Only because Truss’ policies were completely different from those before her. You’d imagine anyone following Sturgeon will be broadly of the same views.


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[Ozyhibby]

It will never happen and it's something that many will argue would be political suicide but I'd like to see a new leader take any timescale for a referendum and independence off the table in the short to medium term.

Increasingly my fear has been that there just isn't the scope to change the opinions off the tens, if not hundreds of thousands the yes side needs to move to secure a resounding victory. Scraping a victory by 1% or whatever would be hollow and much like with the slim margin of Brexit wouldn't really see any willingness to move on (that shouldn't be read as tacit approval of Brexit btw). Whether people like it or not support for independence is largely stagnant, every shift in the UK political landscape, every new PM, the Supreme Court decision etc etc was definitely going to be the thing that saw a huge surge in support but it has never materialised at any sustained level. The vast majority of people are quite evidently stuck in their viewpoint and that isn't changing in the next couple of years.

I'd genuinely like to see a period of 5 years of trying to grow support for independence to consistently upwards of 55-60% without actively campaigning for a referendum. Achieve it by undertaking a real drive to build Scotland into a country with the base principles of democratic socialism, accepting the limitations of working both within the free market and as part of the UK, but using the economy as a slave rather than it being the master. Continued attempts to bring vital public services into nationalised ownership, a commitment to free public transport, high quality social housing, reforming the housing market etc etc.

There are people who won't like or ever accept a pause. The people with their Civil Rights Movement badges desperately invoking imagery and language more suited to Northern Ireland in the 60s and 70s rather than Scotland in the 2020s. I believe that is a lunatic fringe though and whilst more moderate voices may not like it, perhaps they could be convinced if support for independence started to tick upwards steadily.

Nicola Sturgeon deserves credit for the part she played in growing support for independence since 2011, few could have expected that was possible. The limitations of that approach are clear now though and we have reached the point where continuing down the same path is not having any significant impact. my approach may well be folly and I daresay few will have any enthusiasm for it but anyone coming in and trying to demand de facto referendums and put a timescale on achieving a binding one is guilty of an equal folly imo.

I would say any timetable is dead now anyway. The answer is No, we can’t have a referendum.


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[Ozyhibby]

Only because Truss’ policies were completely different from those before her. You’d imagine anyone following Sturgeon will be broadly of the same views.


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I think it would be good to call an election anyway.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Only because Truss’ policies were completely different from those before her. You’d imagine anyone following Sturgeon will be broadly of the same views.


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Same was said for Sunak and his is similar to the mandate. If I could be bothered there would be dozens of brilliant posts saying how can you be leader of the nation without the public deciding

[hibby rae]

Just don’t see her as a vote winner type. More attack dog.


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Maybe not straight away, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone new into parliament like Kaukab Stewart becoming more prominent

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Thinking more on it. The right wing media were Sturgeons biggest attackers. Kate Forbes might be an absolute nightmare for them as they absolutely don't want to touch mocking the religious

Okay yeah, but central Scotland is the area the SNP need to keep a hold of, is a staunchly religious leader really a good idea, all things considered?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Okay yeah, but central Scotland is the area the SNP need to keep a hold of, is a staunchly religious leader really a good idea, all things considered?


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It's depressing if our only way of getting independence is placating bigots then that is depressing, but you could be right

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I feel I really relate to Mhairi Black as a younger SNP voter/nationalist. I’ve always voted SNP since I turned 16 but there’s a few candidates on that list that’d turn me away from the party (one of those is Kate Forbes, as a lapsed catholic) and probably towards a harder left pro Indy party, if such a thing still exists out-with the greens and their champagne socialism. They’d have my vote for as long as Mhairi Black was leader if it was to happen, I’d wager many people my age from the central belt would feel the same.


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[Ozyhibby]

An amazing amount of sectarianism where Forbes is concerned. Really dis-heartening. Not sure I want her either but really don’t care about what church she goes to.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Ash Regan saying she will run according to the herald

[James310]

I feel I really relate to Mhairi Black as a younger SNP voter/nationalist. I’ve always voted SNP since I turned 16 but there’s a few candidates on that list that’d turn me away from the party (one of those is Kate Forbes, as a lapsed catholic) and probably towards a harder left pro Indy party, if such a thing still exists out-with the greens and their champagne socialism. They’d have my vote for as long as Mhairi Black was leader if it was to happen, I’d wager many people my age from the central belt would feel the same.


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Mhairi Black could not be FM as long as she was in Westminster so she won't be the next leader. It has to be someone in Holyrood to lead the Scottish Government and appear at FMs questions etc.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Mhairi Black could not be FM as long as she was in Westminster so she won't be the next leader. It has to be someone in Holyrood to lead the Scottish Government and appear at FMs questions etc.

Yep understand that, but she could still be leader


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[James310]

Yep understand that, but she could still be leader


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Sorry I see, would be unlikely I think.

[hibby rae]

An amazing amount of sectarianism where Forbes is concerned. Really dis-heartening. Not sure I want her either but really don’t care about what church she goes to.


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Yeah I don't care really if a leader is religious as long as they agree with the principle of separation of church and state, and their decision-making is based on logic and reason

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

An amazing amount of sectarianism where Forbes is concerned. Really dis-heartening. Not sure I want her either but really don’t care about what church she goes to.


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I don’t care what church she goes to either, I care how vocal she is about it. Leave religion out of the running of our country and I’ll be happy enough, so far in her political career she’s shown no intention of putting her religious views to one side and governing for the good of the people in her constituency imo (read GRA, whether I agree with her or not is irrelevant it’s not something that should be justified by religious beliefs and her opinions on abortion). I’d like to think I’m the furthest thing from bigoted, my mothers side are as orange as they come and my fathers are Irish catholic, I’ve many close friends of both sides of the “divide” but I just do not want someone who could be swayed by their own religious beliefs being first minister of 21st century Scotland, and I’d say the same if she was a catholic


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[Ozyhibby]

Ash Regan saying she will run according to the herald

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-msp-ash-regan-expected-29227194?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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[hibby rae]

I feel I really relate to Mhairi Black as a younger SNP voter/nationalist. I’ve always voted SNP since I turned 16 but there’s a few candidates on that list that’d turn me away from the party (one of those is Kate Forbes, as a lapsed catholic) and probably towards a harder left pro Indy party, if such a thing still exists out-with the greens and their champagne socialism. They’d have my vote for as long as Mhairi Black was leader if it was to happen, I’d wager many people my age from the central belt would feel the same.


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I would disagree they are champagne socialists. But also wouldn't really care if they were, surely the more rich people, and those from priviliged backgrounds, there are who support left wing policies the better and fairer society will be!

Two people who were key to my political outlook, George Orwell and Joe Strummer, could have been labelled that way

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-msp-ash-regan-expected-29227194?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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Can't see her having any chance with the membership, perhaps if it was the public but its not so..

[hibby rae]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-msp-ash-regan-expected-29227194?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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One issue someone like Regan would find is they nailed their colours to the mast on the GRA, but as FM one of their key responsibilities would be to defend the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament against outside interference from Westminster. So how would they play that one?

[Pretty Boy]

An amazing amount of sectarianism where Forbes is concerned. Really dis-heartening. Not sure I want her either but really don’t care about what church she goes to.


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It's not nice at all. One person stated those who have a religious faith should not be allowed any positions of power or leadership. WTF? That's just bigotry and if it was someone saying, as an example, Jews shouldn't be allowed positions of power or leadership then it would be called out as such.

It is going to be an issue that will arise if she stands and she will have to be honest about her stance on issues that see politics and church mix but she deserves a fair hearing. Someone like Tim Farron tried to dodge a position on certain issues, you can't do that and he paid the price. If Forbes is honest then firstly the SNP membership and potentially then the Scottish electorate will decide if they agree with or can overlook some of her views.

I think people often have the mistaken belief that every person with a faith is ruled by it rather using it as something to compliment or perhaps guide their own morals. There are approx 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide and in the region of a billion Christians of other denominations. It would be mightily strange if they all had the same views on social, economic and cultural issues. It's also utter bollocks to believe that's the case.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's not nice at all. One person stated those who have a religious faith should not be allowed any positions of power or leadership. WTF? That's just bigotry and if it was someone saying, as an example, Jews shouldn't be allowed positions of power or leadership then it would be called out as such.

It is going to be an issue that will arise if she stands and she will have to be honest about her stance on issues that see politics and church mix but she deserves a fair hearing. Someone like Tim Farron tried to dodge a position on certain issues, you can't do that and he paid the price. If Forbes is honest and then firstly the SNP membership and potentially then the Scottish electorate will decide if they agree with or can overlook some of her views.

I think people often have the mistaken belief that every person with a faith is ruled by it rather using it as something to compliment or perhaps guide their own morals. There are approx 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide and in the region of a billion Christians of other denominations. It would be mightily strange if they all had the same views or social, economic and cultural issues. It's also utter bollocks to believe that's the case.

It's wild eh. Imagine saying Sadiq Khan should stand again for London mayor as he is practicing Muslim. Then defending it by saying I don't mind Muslims myself I just don't want that religion ruling how he thinks

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

It's wild eh. Imagine saying Sadiq Khan should stand again for London mayor as he is practicing Muslim. Then defending it by saying I don't mind Muslims myself I just don't want that religion ruling how he thinks

That’s up to the people of London to decide, I don’t live in London I live in Scotland and I’d prefer (in a pretty secular country, btw) our FM not to be potentially led by the religious beliefs of her particular brand of the Church of Scotland, of which the majority of the country do not attend or have any affinity with? I’m not saying nobody who is CoS/RC/FCoS etc can’t be a political candidate, I’m saying I’d most likely not vote for someone with a history of appearing to condemn abortion and lgbtq+ rights in a modern, secular nation


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[wookie70]

It will never happen and it's something that many will argue would be political suicide but I'd like to see a new leader take any timescale for a referendum and independence off the table in the short to medium term.

Increasingly my fear has been that there just isn't the scope to change the opinions off the tens, if not hundreds of thousands the yes side needs to move to secure a resounding victory. Scraping a victory by 1% or whatever would be hollow and much like with the slim margin of Brexit wouldn't really see any willingness to move on (that shouldn't be read as tacit approval of Brexit btw). Whether people like it or not support for independence is largely stagnant, every shift in the UK political landscape, every new PM, the Supreme Court decision etc etc was definitely going to be the thing that saw a huge surge in support but it has never materialised at any sustained level. The vast majority of people are quite evidently stuck in their viewpoint and that isn't changing in the next couple of years.

I'd genuinely like to see a period of 5 years of trying to grow support for independence to consistently upwards of 55-60% without actively campaigning for a referendum. Achieve it by undertaking a real drive to build Scotland into a country with the base principles of democratic socialism, accepting the limitations of working both within the free market and as part of the UK, but using the economy as a slave rather than it being the master. Continued attempts to bring vital public services into nationalised ownership, a commitment to free public transport, high quality social housing, reforming the housing market etc etc.

There are people who won't like or ever accept a pause. The people with their Civil Rights Movement badges desperately invoking imagery and language more suited to Northern Ireland in the 60s and 70s rather than Scotland in the 2020s. I believe that is a lunatic fringe though and whilst more moderate voices may not like it, perhaps they could be convinced if support for independence started to tick upwards steadily.

Nicola Sturgeon deserves credit for the part she played in growing support for independence since 2011, few could have expected that was possible. The limitations of that approach are clear now though and we have reached the point where continuing down the same path is not having any significant impact. my approach may well be folly and I daresay few will have any enthusiasm for it but anyone coming in and trying to demand de facto referendums and put a timescale on achieving a binding one is guilty of an equal folly imo.

I would be with you on that unless if made getting back into the EU harder due to the delay.

On the other hand the SNP could be very bold, if allowed, and elect a leader from the members and call an election. Make it all about Indi and try and force a referendum or just go with the election as de facto.

I got the feeling Sturgeon had someone plotting behind her back regardless of what way she faced. She had the smarts, power and experience to hold it together. I wonder if the next leader will fair as well, I suspect not and I can see Indi taking a big hit. So difficult to forecast without knowing who will be leader and what they express as their priorities.

However, if they change anything from the manifesto that got this government elected then I want to see another election. I wanted an election for Truss not because of the change of leader but because what she stood for was not why the Tories were elected.

[Hibbyradge]

That’s up to the people of London to decide, I don’t live in London I live in Scotland and I’d prefer (in a pretty secular country, btw) our FM not to be potentially led by the religious beliefs of her particular brand of the Church of Scotland, of which the majority of the country do not attend or have any affinity with? I’m not saying nobody who is CoS/RC/FCoS etc can’t be a political candidate, I’m saying I’d most likely not vote for someone with a history of appearing to condemn abortion and lgbtq+ rights in a modern, secular nation


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Would she be your MSP?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Would she be your MSP?

Not but theoretically she’d be my first minister?

Edit: I know what you’re saying I’d not be voting for her technically, however I’d be voting for a representative of her party based on the ideas she presents in the manifesto.

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[Sergio sledge]

Not but theoretically she’d be my first minister?

Edit: I know what you’re saying I’d not be voting for her technically, however I’d be voting for a representative of her party based on the ideas she presents in the manifesto.

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Isn't it the party manifesto rather than her manifesto though? She couldn't suddenly roll back abortion laws, or marriage equality for example just because she would be FM. As far as I'm aware this isn't like the president of the USA who can make executive orders (I stand to be corrected on that though if it is the case).

I'd say the more pertinent question would be whether she'd be prepared to lead a party in Parliament with manifesto promises which she may fundamentally disagree with.

[Ozyhibby]

Isn't it the party manifesto rather than her manifesto though? She couldn't suddenly roll back abortion laws, or marriage equality for example just because she would be FM. As far as I'm aware this isn't like the president of the USA who can make executive orders (I stand to be corrected on that though if it is the case).

I'd say the more pertinent question would be whether she'd be prepared to lead a party in Parliament with manifesto promises which she may fundamentally disagree with.

She already has said that. And as finance minister she agreed funding for services that likely would not have been popular with her church.
Who knows if she will even stand though so not worth worrying about yet.


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[Ozyhibby]

One issue someone like Regan would find is they nailed their colours to the mast on the GRA, but as FM one of their key responsibilities would be to defend the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament against outside interference from Westminster. So how would they play that one?

Regan will have a problem with her fellow MSP’s I think. The membership is what counts with the voting but they will be looking to make sure the candidates can lead a team.


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[Hibbyradge]

Not but theoretically she’d be my first minister?

Edit: I know what you’re saying I’d not be voting for her technically, however I’d be voting for a representative of her party based on the ideas she presents in the manifesto.

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Yes you'd be voting for your MSP and their party's manifesto, but I realise the electorate doesn't normally think like that unless the candidate is particularly popular locally.

[Glory Lurker]

Disappointed to remember that you need to be an MSP to stand. I'd skoosh it.

[Ozyhibby]

Disappointed to remember that you need to be an MSP to stand. I'd skoosh it.

Or an MP.


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[Glory Lurker]

Or an MP.


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Nope. I don't do that either. Good news for the union.

[wookie70]

An amazing amount of sectarianism where Forbes is concerned. Really dis-heartening. Not sure I want her either but really don’t care about what church she goes to.


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I would probably use a candidate's belief in God(it wouldn't matter to me what one) as a matter of consideration when voting. I would absolutely support their right to stand and I may well be fairly neutral in my thoughts if they also believed in science but it would definitely make me think twice about voting for them. I have no idea which church Forbes is in by the way nor do I care.

[Stairway 2 7]

I would probably use a candidate's belief in God(it wouldn't matter to me what one) as a matter of consideration when voting. I would absolutely support their right to stand and I may well be fairly neutral in my thoughts if they also believed in science but it would definitely make me think twice about voting for them. I have no idea which church Forbes is in by the way nor do I care.

This conversation rightly wouldn't happen if she was Muslim, because we would look like bigoted people.

[heretoday]

Sturgeon has dominated Scottish politics for so long that her SNP colleagues seem rather empty vessels.
It's a big blow for Indy and there's no denying it.

[marinello59]

It's not nice at all. One person stated those who have a religious faith should not be allowed any positions of power or leadership. WTF? That's just bigotry and if it was someone saying, as an example, Jews shouldn't be allowed positions of power or leadership then it would be called out as such.

It is going to be an issue that will arise if she stands and she will have to be honest about her stance on issues that see politics and church mix but she deserves a fair hearing. Someone like Tim Farron tried to dodge a position on certain issues, you can't do that and he paid the price. If Forbes is honest then firstly the SNP membership and potentially then the Scottish electorate will decide if they agree with or can overlook some of her views.

I think people often have the mistaken belief that every person with a faith is ruled by it rather using it as something to compliment or perhaps guide their own morals. There are approx 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide and in the region of a billion Christians of other denominations. It would be mightily strange if they all had the same views on social, economic and cultural issues. It's also utter bollocks to believe that's the case.

Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Sturgeon has dominated Scottish politics for so long that her SNP colleagues seem rather empty vessels.
It's a big blow for Indy and there's no denying it.

I actually think it’ll be a shot in the arm, IF the next leader is likeable, relatable and progressive. We’ll see.


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[Ozyhibby]

Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.

Maybe being a female?


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[wookie70]

This conversation rightly wouldn't happen if she was Muslim, because we would look like bigoted people.

She could be Muslim for all I know. Being religious, to the exclusion of science, is very much something I would vote against. Again this is my view on religion in general not a religion in particular. Is Forbes being attacked because of her particular religion. I had a quick look on Twitter but nothing jumped out. Actually when I used her name as a hashtag it appeared there was quite a bit of support because she was religious

[Sylar]

Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.

Perhaps because he was never in a position to potentially pass policies, fund initiatives etc, whereas IF Forbes were to run for FM, she would be?

Or as Ozy says, perhaps pure misogyny.

I don't care which deity people choose to believe in - so long as their belief system/prejudices don't impact services for all people in Scotland, it doesn't matter, surely?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Perhaps because he was never in a position to potentially pass policies, fund initiatives etc, whereas IF Forbes were to run for FM, she would be?

Or as Ozy says, perhaps pure misogyny.

I don't care which deity people choose to believe in - so long as their belief system/prejudices don't impact services for all people in Scotland, it doesn't matter, surely?

Just to clear up any doubt, I’d say the same as I have if she happened to be a man, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Catholic or any other religion or gender.


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[heretoday]

Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.

It's a shame Blackford can't stand for the job, being an MP.

[degenerated]

Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.I think Forbes is extremely capable of being able to take that role on, probably more so than Blackford and most of those being mentioned.

I have no issue with her religion, I don't agree with her pro life views espoused in her public speech at souttars event, but she's as entitled to have those views as I am to not agree with them .

For me, it isn't an issue with Forbes, it's that she wouldn't stand a chance because it's an open goal for a belligerent unionist media who would have her hounded out in no time at all.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Forbes is extremely capable of being able to take that role on, probably more so than Blackford and most of those being mentioned.

I have no issue with her religion, I don't agree with her pro life views espoused in her public speech at souttars event, but she's as entitled to have those views as I am to not agree with them .

For me, it isn't an issue with Forbes, it's that she wouldn't stand a chance because it's an open goal for a belligerent unionist media who would have her hounded out in no time at all.

She is also very pro business and has a good grasp of economics. That might be good for the SNP to have at the top but will it get her the job?


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[degenerated]

She is also very pro business and has a good grasp of economics. That might be good for the SNP to have at the top but will it get her the job?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAs I said, I think she's very competent and capable.

[Crunchie]

Executive meeting tonight to see if anyone wants the job, as yet there's no candidates :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Executive meeting tonight to see if anyone wants the job, as yet there's no candidates :greengrin

What do you expect? Nominations opened yesterday afternoon, then they need at least 100 names. It will be a slow process unless 1 person stands out as the obvious candidate

[James310]

What do you expect? Nominations opened yesterday afternoon, then they need at least 100 names. It will be a slow process unless 1 person stands out as the obvious candidate

Why 100? They don't even have 100 MSPs.

[Santa Cruz]

Why 100? They don't even have 100 MSPs.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23323655.snp-leadership-election-works-nicola-sturgeon-resigns/

[James310]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23323655.snp-leadership-election-works-nicola-sturgeon-resigns/

Ah ok, I thought it meant 100 candidates.

It will be Angus Robertson I reckon.

[He's here!]

What do you expect? Nominations opened yesterday afternoon, then they need at least 100 names. It will be a slow process unless 1 person stands out as the obvious candidate

According to Radio Scotland, SNP leadership election regulations require an eye-watering 133 days for the process to be completed...but it's hoped the timetable can be speeded up.

[Ozyhibby]

What do you expect? Nominations opened yesterday afternoon, then they need at least 100 names. It will be a slow process unless 1 person stands out as the obvious candidate

I would think anyone who wants to stand will be able to. 100 names is a pretty low bar to set. What will be happening now is potential candidates will be trying to gage support among other MSP’s and MP’s. That’s going to be very important even if their votes don’t carry extra weight. Any candidate is going to have to be both popular and competent.


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[He's here!]

Ah ok, I thought it meant 100 candidates.

It will be Angus Robertson I reckon.

I note Craig Murray has alluded in his blog to some info he has on Robertson that would make him standing 'somewhat difficult'. Not sure if he's alluding to the leaked emails he says he's going to publish - nor how seriously he can be taken.

[Crunchie]

What do you expect? Nominations opened yesterday afternoon, then they need at least 100 names. It will be a slow process unless 1 person stands out as the obvious candidate
As is the norm with every other party when a leader resigns, hats are thrown into the ring almost immediately.

[Hibbyradge]

As is the norm with every other party when a leader resigns, hats are thrown into the ring almost immediately.

Normally, the hat wearers are prepared for the vacancy arising and have given thought to their candidacy. No-one saw the resignation coming yesterday.

[ElginHibbie]

As is the norm with every other party when a leader resigns, hats are thrown into the ring almost immediately.

And the people who did that are the ones who have been sharpening their knives waiting to stab the leader in back at first opportunity, clearly Nicola still well liked by the party and so not giving her her day wouldn't be a good look any candidate

Only one I could imagine having done that would be Cherry, but I doubt she'll stand as no chance she'd win

[Ozyhibby]

And the people who did that are the ones who have been sharpening their knives waiting to stab the leader in back at first opportunity, clearly Nicola still well liked by the party and so not giving her her day wouldn't be a good look any candidate

Only one I could imagine having done that would be Cherry, but I doubt she'll stand as no chance she'd win

She already calling for all the Alba leavers to be allowed back into the party. She has zero chance being leader.


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[James310]

I note Craig Murray has alluded in his blog to some info he has on Robertson that would make him standing 'somewhat difficult'. Not sure if he's alluding to the leaked emails he says he's going to publish - nor how seriously he can be taken.

It's to do with the Salmond thing. If it's true Craig Murray is correct it will make it difficult for Angus Robertson. I have no idea if it's true though.

[degenerated]

I note Craig Murray has alluded in his blog to some info he has on Robertson that would make him standing 'somewhat difficult'. Not sure if he's alluding to the leaked emails he says he's going to publish - nor how seriously he can be taken.Wings over Bath, Craig Murray. You pick some sources :hilarious

[Ozyhibby]

Flynn rules himself out and calls for delay in special conference. I agree with that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/16/snp-nicola-sturgeon-stephen-flynn-independence-plan-rethink?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1676538547


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[overdrive]

That’s up to the people of London to decide, I don’t live in London I live in Scotland and I’d prefer (in a pretty secular country, btw) our FM not to be potentially led by the religious beliefs of her particular brand of the Church of Scotland, of which the majority of the country do not attend or have any affinity with? I’m not saying nobody who is CoS/RC/FCoS etc can’t be a political candidate, I’m saying I’d most likely not vote for someone with a history of appearing to condemn abortion and lgbtq+ rights in a modern, secular nation

Her church isn't the Church of Scotland.


Good post.
I would also wonder why Forbes is being singled out here. Blackford is a member of the same church and was leader of the party in Westminster. I don’t remember his faith ever being an issue.

Blackford didn't let his religion influence a lot of his political views. He didn't come out with anti-abortion rhetoric. He voted for abortion and same sex marriage. In fact he seemed to enrage his church minister that he did.

I'm not too sure if the strict observation of the Sabbath is still as widely observed among "Wee Frees" as it was even few years ago, but Blackford clearly doesn't observe that either as he was sat behind me at Hampden at the Boyle hattrick game which was on a Sunday. I'm not too sure if his religion that big a deal to him.

[The Harp Awakes]

Anyone who has seen my posts here will know I have no inside track on how this might play out. But as an interested observer, here's my initial thoughts on potential candidates.

Kate Forbes: Comes over quite well and is clearly bright. Young and obviously would have a strong appeal in the Highlands. Has already been the subject of negative briefing on how she rose so quickly and was invisible on GRR. Some members may have views on her faith.

Humsa Yousaf: Comes over well in a slightly laddish way. Has had big jobs, though there are conflicting views on how successful. Would show inclusivity. Probably regrets suing the nursery. His trolling of Rangers fans will appeal to some, but might put others off. Does he have the gravitas?

Ash Regan: Youngish, relatable and has a recent history of principled action. Comes from a left background. Not much profile before resigning. Some members may see her as disloyal and wouldn't be popular with supporters of the GR legislation (which could lead to issues on the FM vote). Had some pushback on privately educating her kids. Don't know if that's an issue now.


Angus Robertson: Comes over as quite cerebral. I'm less sure how much he connects 'ordinary members'. Loyal to NS, but does carry some baggage , including with Joanna Cherry over the selection for his seat.

Keith Brown: Been around and has held key posts. Comes over OK I think? Maybe seen as too much back to the future?

Mhari Black: I think she would be popular with some sections of the party. Very inexperienced and crucially, is in Westminster. I just don't see how that would work. It would need a deputy in Holyrood who would get all the attention. So I would suspect it won't be an MP.

As ever look forward to reading views and comments.

From an SNP and pro independence perspective, the next leader has to be someone who will win over undecided/floating voters to the cause. Someone who can turn 50% backing for independence into closer to 60%.

I think the new leader needs to have gravitas and solid political experience. Someone who can stand up to the overwhelmingly hostile right wing media.

Out of the candidates you mention, Angus Robertson is head and shoulders above the rest. A respected figure in both Westminster and Holyrood, stacks of political experience and a great orator.

[Moulin Yarns]

Someone who I would like to be the leader, but is at Westminster is Phillipa Whitford.

[Santa Cruz]

Someone who I would like to be the leader, but is at Westminster is Phillipa Whitford.

Could still be the Leader of the SNP just not the FM, if I'm undestanding this correctly?

[Crunchie]

From an SNP and pro independence perspective, the next leader has to be someone who will win over undecided/floating voters to the cause. Someone who can turn 50% backing for independence into closer to 60%.

I think the new leader needs to have gravitas and solid political experience. Someone who can stand up to the overwhelmingly hostile right wing media.

Out of the candidates you mention, Angus Robertson is head and shoulders above the rest. A respected figure in both Westminster and Holyrood, stacks of political experience and a great orator.
That's where the movement will always fall short imo, it shouldn't be about 'the cause' it should be about building a better country first and foremost.
Under devolution we have powers to do a wide range of things to better the country and if that were to happen I'm sure independence would follow if that was the will of the people.
Sturgeon failed miserably on education, nhs, policing and so many other things in her drive for independence. She wanted it that desperately she aligned herself to the greens to get a majority. That imo was the beginning of the end for her.

[James310]

From an SNP and pro independence perspective, the next leader has to be someone who will win over undecided/floating voters to the cause. Someone who can turn 50% backing for independence into closer to 60%.

I think the new leader needs to have gravitas and solid political experience. Someone who can stand up to the overwhelmingly hostile right wing media.

Out of the candidates you mention, Angus Robertson is head and shoulders above the rest. A respected figure in both Westminster and Holyrood, stacks of political experience and a great orator.

He oversaw the census shambles and seems to spend more time abroad than at home. I am not sure he is respected as you seem to think, respected by who?

[Ozyhibby]

That's where the movement will always fall short imo, it shouldn't be about 'the cause' it should be about building a better country first and foremost.
Under devolution we have powers to do a wide range of things to better the country and if that were to happen I'm sure independence would follow if that was the will of the people.
Sturgeon failed miserably on education, nhs, policing and so many other things in her drive for independence. She wanted it that desperately she aligned herself to the greens to get a majority. That imo was the beginning of the end for her.

Best public services in the UK.


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[He's here!]

Flynn rules himself out and calls for delay in special conference. I agree with that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/16/snp-nicola-sturgeon-stephen-flynn-independence-plan-rethink?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1676538547


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BBC suggesting it will be ditched altogether. With Sturgeon's de facto plan all but off the table what's the rush? If the new leader isn't going to be elected until at least April it gives them a bit of breathing space until the usual autumn conference.

[The Harp Awakes]

That's where the movement will always fall short imo, it shouldn't be about 'the cause' it should be about building a better country first and foremost.
Under devolution we have powers to do a wide range of things to better the country and if that were to happen I'm sure independence would follow if that was the will of the people.
Sturgeon failed miserably on education, nhs, policing and so many other things in her drive for independence. She wanted it that desperately she aligned herself to the greens to get a majority. That imo was the beginning of the end for her.

Totally disagree. If your starting point is that independence is a pre-requisite to building a better country, then independence will be and should be, a key focus.

[James310]

Best public services in the UK.


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Best funded so I would hope so, but I am not sure they are.

Salmond had his faults but he governed well.

[Ozyhibby]

BBC suggesting it will be ditched altogether. With Sturgeon's de facto plan all but off the table what's the rush? If the new leader isn't going to be elected until at least April it gives them a bit of breathing space until the usual autumn conference.

I think it’s dead anyway. I think that was most important reason for Sturgeon going. I think she could see Party we’re not keen on it but she could probably have pushed it through. The problem being was that she didn’t really believe in it herself. It was a rare mid-step from her to box herself in like that.


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[The Harp Awakes]

He oversaw the census shambles and seems to spend more time abroad than at home. I am not sure he is respected as you seem to think, respected by who?

He's recognised as being effective across parties during his time as SNP Westminster leader. Just one account from one of the many SNP hostile media outlets:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/who-will-replace-angus-robertson-snp-leader-westminster-1447493

[The Harp Awakes]

I think it’s dead anyway. I think that was most important reason for Sturgeon going. I think she could see Party we’re not keen on it but she could probably have pushed it through. The problem being was that she didn’t really believe in it herself. It was a rare mid-step from her to box herself in like that.


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If it is to happen at all, I actually think it makes far more sense (from a Yes perspective) for the defacto referendum to be the next Holyrood election, as there's a far greater prospect of the SNP winning more than 50% of the vote. The Scottish electorate is proportionally younger (16 yo+ get vote) and foreign nationals can vote. Both these factors would likely boost the SNP vote compared to a Westminster election.

[James310]

He's recognised as being effective across parties during his time as SNP Westminster leader. Just one account from one of the many SNP hostile media outlets:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/who-will-replace-angus-robertson-snp-leader-westminster-1447493

That article is 6 years old, he was so well respected he lost his seat at Westminster to Douglas Ross! He has hardly set the world on fire since becoming a MSP in 2021. He greatest achievement so far seems to be the botched census.

[Ozyhibby]

If it is to happen at all, I actually think it makes far more sense (from a Yes perspective) for the defacto referendum to be the next Holyrood election, as there's a far greater prospect of the SNP winning more than 50% of the vote. The Scottish electorate is proportionally younger (16 yo+ get vote) and foreign nationals can vote. Both these factors would likely boost the SNP vote compared to a Westminster election.

There are two votes though. Last election saw yes parties fall short on constituency vote but get the 50% on the list vote.
I just don’t think de-facto works.


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[Hibrandenburg]

He oversaw the census shambles and seems to spend more time abroad than at home. I am not sure he is respected as you seem to think, respected by who?

The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture spending time abroad, whatever next, a Defence Secretary spending time with the military?

[grunt]

Sturgeon failed miserably on education, nhs, policing and so many other things in her drive for independence. She wanted it that desperately she aligned herself to the greens to get a majority. That imo was the beginning of the end for her.
You keep tediously saying this, which I assume you've parroted without thinking from some frothing unionist website. Can you actually support this assertion with any facts?

[Ozyhibby]

You keep tediously saying this, which I assume you've parroted without thinking from some frothing unionist website. Can you actually support this assertion with any facts?

Of course not.


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[The Harp Awakes]

That article is 6 years old, he was so well respected he lost his seat at Westminster to Douglas Ross! He has hardly set the world on fire since becoming a MSP in 2021. He greatest achievement so far seems to be the botched census.

He also held the seat 4 times and was ousted in the 2017 GE as part of an unusually poor election result for the SNP and has been out of politics for the majority of those 6 years.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I note Craig Murray has alluded in his blog to some info he has on Robertson that would make him standing 'somewhat difficult'. Not sure if he's alluding to the leaked emails he says he's going to publish - nor how seriously he can be taken.

Craig Murray is a joke IMO. He was banging on about MI6 involvement in one of the jurors being kicked off the Salmond trial, when i know for a fact that it was my ex-gf's mum, a retired lady who looks after chickens. Some moron from the jury just blabbed about the case to her when she was picking up a purchase from a facebook group, she reported it, and he was thrown off. Meanwhile, Murray dons a tinfoil cap and starts making **** up like a lunatic.

It's a shame, because he's also done good and important work...but he's a self important gimp.

[heretoday]

Her church isn't the Church of Scotland.



Blackford didn't let his religion influence a lot of his political views. He didn't come out with anti-abortion rhetoric. He voted for abortion and same sex marriage. In fact he seemed to enrage his church minister that he did.

I'm not too sure if the strict observation of the Sabbath is still as widely observed among "Wee Frees" as it was even few years ago, but Blackford clearly doesn't observe that either as he was sat behind me at Hampden at the Boyle hattrick game which was on a Sunday. I'm not too sure if his religion that big a deal to him.

Good post. I like him a lot. He's knocked about a bit and he has a twinkle in his eye!

[Crunchie]

Of course not.


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You came up with The Promise as her greatest achievement :faf:, that says it all.

[James310]

You keep tediously saying this, which I assume you've parroted without thinking from some frothing unionist website. Can you actually support this assertion with any facts?

Stolen from The Scotsman but based in facts.

Scotland’s educational results have plummeted and the gap between rich and poor has widened. Scotland has the worst drug deaths record in Europe — again. The Scottish NHS is in tatters, carrying out 24 per cent fewer operations than it was before Covid. Back in November, there were 474,600 people on the waiting list, with more than 2,000 having endured delays of over two years. ScotRail was so disastrously managed by Abellio that the railways were renationalised — and the same man was put in charge. The publicly-owned, not-for-profit energy company which Nicola Sturgeon promised us never turned up. The vow to give free bikes to Scottish kids has so far cost just under £1million and provided fewer than 1,000 cycles. That’s £500 per wheel. She pledged free laptops for every school pupil. Has your kid got one yet? The promise to make the deadly A9 a dual carriageway has come to nothing. The deposit return scheme — *set to see Scots charged a refundable 20p to recycle drinks containers — looks like it’s about to crash and burn. Then there’s the whole ferries fiasco. Gross mismanagement has cost the Scottish taxpayer hundreds of millions in return for zero boats.

[Crunchie]

Stolen from The Scotsman but based in facts.

Scotland’s educational results have plummeted and the gap between rich and poor has widened. Scotland has the worst drug deaths record in Europe — again. The Scottish NHS is in tatters, carrying out 24 per cent fewer operations than it was before Covid. Back in November, there were 474,600 people on the waiting list, with more than 2,000 having endured delays of over two years. ScotRail was so disastrously managed by Abellio that the railways were renationalised — and the same man was put in charge. The publicly-owned, not-for-profit energy company which Nicola Sturgeon promised us never turned up. The vow to give free bikes to Scottish kids has so far cost just under £1million and provided fewer than 1,000 cycles. That’s £500 per wheel. She pledged free laptops for every school pupil. Has your kid got one yet? The promise to make the deadly A9 a dual carriageway has come to nothing. The deposit return scheme — *set to see Scots charged a refundable 20p to recycle drinks containers — looks like it’s about to crash and burn. Then there’s the whole ferries fiasco. Gross mismanagement has cost the Scottish taxpayer hundreds of millions in return for zero boats.
She'll be remembered for nothing other than being the first female and the longest serving FM. If they stay in power let's hope the next leader fares better for the sake of the country.

[Ozyhibby]

You came up with The Promise as her greatest achievement :faf:, that says it all.

I what?


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[Zambernardi1875]

She'll be remembered for nothing other than being the first female and the longest serving FM. If they stay in power let's hope the next leader fares better for the sake of the country.

With the outpouring of delight at her leaving from you and the rest over the past 24 hours it only proves how great she was as a leader and person.

[Stairway 2 7]

With the outpouring of delight at her leaving from you and the rest over the past 24 hours it only proves how great she was as a leader and person.

Does the same apply for when we celebrated boris getting the boot, because I think he was a imbecile and a criminal

[James310]

With the outpouring of delight at her leaving from you and the rest over the past 24 hours it only proves how great she was as a leader and person.

So when you celebrated the removal of Boris Johnson or Liz Truss it's showed how great a leader they were.....not sure your analogy works.

[Crunchie]

With the outpouring of delight at her leaving from you and the rest over the past 24 hours it only proves how great she was as a leader and person.
I await a list of her great achievements, I won't hold my breath.
I'm not arguing that she wasn't a vg politician but she's wasted 8 years of her life on a pipe dream instead of getting on with making Scotland a better country for everyone. I've a feeling she'll be regretting that as well.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see that the A9 was mentioned,


The promise to make the deadly A9 a dual carriageway has come to nothing.

That's a lie, I know because I was a member of the team assessing the impact of different options between Perth and Drumochter. The route was divided into 11 sections, 2 are open and contracts for 2 other sections are out for bids. The pandemic meant work was halted on one section, and the costs of materials has rocketed

[Kato]

So when you celebrated the removal of Boris Johnson or Liz Truss it's showed how great a leader they were.....not sure your analogy works.Did people really "celebrate" Truss or Johnson leaving? I can't remember conga lines and suchlike.

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[Zambernardi1875]

Does the same apply for when we celebrated boris getting the boot, because I think he was a imbecile and a criminal

When we? Who’s we

[Zambernardi1875]

So when you celebrated the removal of Boris Johnson or Liz Truss it's showed how great a leader they were.....not sure your analogy works.

I never gave it a second thought

[Zambernardi1875]

Did people really "celebrate" Truss or Johnson leaving? I can't remember conga lines and suchlike.

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The only comparison is when the queen died and that’s probably quite accurate

[Crunchie]

The only comparison is when the queen died and that’s probably quite accurate
You did the conga when the Queen died?

[Stairway 2 7]

When we? Who’s we

Dozens on here millions around the UK delighted in his fall. I had champagne when Thatcher died I don't think she was a good person or politician. Unfairly mostly bur Sturgeon was disliked by many and that is a major reason its better she is gone for independence sake

[Sergio sledge]

I see that the A9 was mentioned,


The promise to make the deadly A9 a dual carriageway has come to nothing.

That's a lie, I know because I was a member of the team assessing the impact of different options between Perth and Drumochter. The route was divided into 11 sections, 2 are open and contracts for 2 other sections are out for bids. The pandemic meant work was halted on one section, and the costs of materials has rocketed

The problem with the A9 dualling is that the promise was made and an unrealistic timetable set. Even before COVID most people could see that the timetable was never going to be met given how long it took to complete two of the simplest (logistically) sections. When given the chance to amend the timetable, the SG stuck rigidly to it. Managing expectations is a vital part of promises like this and the SG haven't done this, leading to a lot of people feeling very let down when the recent announcement was made.

It is not a surprise that only 1 bidder was left on the tomatin to moy section and that the SG didn't feel they were getting value for money when all risks are passed on to the contractor as part of the contract. The contractor will, quite rightly, put a hefty mark up on costs to cover unforseen ground works etc. When they know they'll have to pay for them should they happen.

You also have to question what influence the SNP's coalition with the greens has had on this project given that the greens have always been against it.

[Zambernardi1875]

You did the conga when the Queen died?

The news past me quicker than chippy wrapper but People did celebrate

[SHODAN]

Of the candidates mentioned so far:
Fine: McAllan, Robertson
Meh: Brown, Gray, Swinney, Yousaf
Would vote for another party: Cherry, Forbes, Regan

[Just Alf]

With the outpouring of delight at her leaving from you and the rest over the past 24 hours it only proves how great she was as a leader and person.Also proves the point that politics and debate have descended to personal attacks rather than debating policy.

It was quite telling on the radio yesterday that many people getting interviewed from all sounds found something positive to say, even if it was her policies were rubbish but she had a good humour in the parliamentary restaurant... Chris Hoy(?) The Scottish Conservative party chairman could bring himself to say a single positive thing about her. He really came across like he simply didn't like her because of her policies ignoring the human element.

Notice he'd toned it down a bit today.. must've been told bad he sounded and that he'd proved Sturgeon's point!

[Hiber-nation]

Also proves the point that politics and debate have descended to personal attacks rather than debating policy.

It was quite telling on the radio yesterday that many people getting interviewed from all sounds found something positive to say, even if it was her policies were rubbish but she had a good humour in the parliamentary restaurant... Chris Hoy(?) The Scottish Conservative party chairman could bring himself to say a single positive thing about her. He really came across like he simply didn't like her because of her policies ignoring the human element.

Notice he'd toned it down a bit today.. must've been told bad he sounded and that he'd proved Sturgeon's point!

On yer bike....it's Craig Hoy :greengrin

[Just Alf]

On yer bike....it's Craig Hoy :greengrinHa ha.. thank you... glad I added that "?"!

[Moulin Yarns]

Cherry rules herself out

[Ozyhibby]

Cherry rules herself out

Shocked. Agitates for change for years and when the chance comes to be the change, runs a mile.


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[Crunchie]

Cherry rules herself out
The executive will have told her there's no point in her running.

Have a look at the latest bookie odds

Robertson 6/5

Forbes 10/3

Swinney 9/1


Yousaf 10/1

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/petewishart/status/1626288402424365063?s=46&t=TmOpmnyVdzyceuIRkUb_SQ

And Wishart is another twat the party could do with losing.


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[Berwickhibby]

https://twitter.com/petewishart/status/1626288402424365063?s=46&t=TmOpmnyVdzyceuIRkUb_SQ

And Wishart is another twat the party could do with losing.


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Can you post what he said as his post is restricted

[Berwickhibby]

The executive will have told her there's no point in her running.

Have a look at the latest bookie odds

Robertson 6/5

Forbes 10/3

Swinney 9/1


Yousaf 10/1

Yousless 10/1 lol :faf: :faf: Jings I hope he gets the job

[Crunchie]

Can you post what he said as his post is restricted
I guess we'll all just have to live with this crushing news and move on.

[Crunchie]

Yousless 10/1 lol :faf: :faf: Jings I hope he gets the job
Swinney being in the betting was more funny I thought, his track record of failure should see him nowhere near the job.

[WhileTheChief..]

It's not nice at all. One person stated those who have a religious faith should not be allowed any positions of power or leadership. WTF? That's just bigotry and if it was someone saying, as an example, Jews shouldn't be allowed positions of power or leadership then it would be called out as such.

Whilst I'd agree that's going too far, it surely depends on which religion and how strongly they feel about aspects of it.

What about religions that think gay people are an abomination? The world rightly condemned Qatar for their views. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people with beliefs like this shouldn't hold public office in the UK.

There's millions of us that aren't religious at all. The thought of someone governing us based on their religion should terrify everyone.

[WhileTheChief..]

I see that the A9 was mentioned,


The promise to make the deadly A9 a dual carriageway has come to nothing.

That's a lie, I know because I was a member of the team assessing the impact of different options between Perth and Drumochter. The route was divided into 11 sections, 2 are open and contracts for 2 other sections are out for bids. The pandemic meant work was halted on one section, and the costs of materials has rocketed

On the news it showed they've done about 15 miles or so.

Quite a bit to go!!

[H18 SFR]

Swinney being in the betting was more funny I thought, his track record of failure should see him nowhere near the job.

Yousaf can’t be serious about running. Surely he knows he is a laughing stock?

[Crunchie]

Yousaf can’t be serious about running. Surely he knows he is a laughing stock?
I doubt he will run, but they're that short of candidates the bookies have him as 1 of 4.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Whilst I'd agree that's going too far, it surely depends on which religion and how strongly they feel about aspects of it.

What about religions that think gay people are an abomination? The world rightly condemned Qatar for their views. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people with beliefs like this shouldn't hold public office in the UK.

There's millions of us that aren't religious at all. The thought of someone governing us based on their religion should terrify everyone.

The last sentence there, is exactly what I was trying to say, perhaps now quite so well.


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Her church isn't the Church of Scotland.



Blackford didn't let his religion influence a lot of his political views. He didn't come out with anti-abortion rhetoric. He voted for abortion and same sex marriage. In fact he seemed to enrage his church minister that he did.

I'm not too sure if the strict observation of the Sabbath is still as widely observed among "Wee Frees" as it was even few years ago, but Blackford clearly doesn't observe that either as he was sat behind me at Hampden at the Boyle hattrick game which was on a Sunday. I'm not too sure if his religion that big a deal to him.

I’ll be honest I know very little regarding the history of both the wee frees and the CoS, but looking up on Google they were founded by a bunch of evangelicals who split from the mainstream church, if they were American we’d call them religious fanatics no doubt. I’ll pass on that having any influence on the running of the country tbh


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[Kato]

What about religions that think gay people are an abomination?

That's them all is not, all the Abrahamic sects anyway.





There's millions of us that aren't religious at all. The thought of someone governing us based on their religion should terrify everyone.

Is this really going to happen? There are politicians who claim to have faith in a religion but they don't allow it to colour their political decisions. Rees-Mogg, for example - he claims to be christian but there is no sign of it in his political life.

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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Rees-Mogg, for example - he claims to be christian but there is no sign of it in his political life.

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Not sure about that, to be fair.


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[nairn hibee]

On the news it showed they've done about 15 miles or so.

Quite a bit to go!!
I think it’s actually 11 miles in 10 years.could probably have dug it myself with a shovel in that time.

[Kato]

Not sure about that, to be fair.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhich aspects of Christianity has come through in the way he acts?

Love thy neighbour?
Thou shalt not kill?

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[CropleyWasGod]

Which aspects of Christianity has come through in the way he acts?

Love thy neighbour?
Thou shalt not kill?

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Coveting his nanny's ass?

[James310]

Yousaf can’t be serious about running. Surely he knows he is a laughing stock?

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1626293039181209600?t=GjfGaRu1yKuxtQdBtIkozg&s=19

NEW:

Scottish Health Secretary Humza Yousaf is to stand to become the next SNP leader

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1626293039181209600?t=GjfGaRu1yKuxtQdBtIkozg&s=19

NEW:

Scottish Health Secretary Humza Yousaf is to stand to become the next SNP leader

Please no. Independence will simply have no chance

[Moulin Yarns]

Swinney being in the betting was more funny I thought, his track record of failure should see him nowhere near the job.

His family life will rule him out.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Which aspects of Christianity has come through in the way he acts?

Love thy neighbour?
Thou shalt not kill?

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Have a look and decide for yourself.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes


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[grunt]

Stolen from The Scotsman .
As I said, frothing unionist website.

[James310]

As I said, frothing unionist website.

It's full of the facts you wanted though, although if you think any are wrong you can easily correct them.

[Kato]

Have a look and decide for yourself.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah, can't see much christian sentiment in there, told you.

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[Kato]

Coveting his nanny's ass?Seems to me like he just covets.

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[xyz23jc]

It's depressing if our only way of getting independence is placating bigots then that is depressing, but you could be right

Tactics Comrade, tactics..! Hearts & Minds etc...LOL! :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

Tactics Comrade, tactics..! Hearts & Minds etc...LOL! :greengrin

Hold... Hold... Hold...

:-)

[Mibbes Aye]

Which aspects of Christianity has come through in the way he acts?

Love thy neighbour?
Thou shalt not kill?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;
When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.
Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.

Psalms 26 24-26

[James310]

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1626321286745018374?t=gvk2b24rwLCRdCXnXEKVdg&s=19

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1626326563028447232?t=MTSoQnil0FMHqJMogvqVjA&s=19


All is not well.

[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1626321286745018374?t=gvk2b24rwLCRdCXnXEKVdg&s=19

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1626326563028447232?t=MTSoQnil0FMHqJMogvqVjA&s=19

All is not well.

We'd miss neither and still be by far the third biggest party at WM.

[James310]

We'd miss neither and still be by far the third biggest party at WM.

Isn't the point to not be at Westminster?

[Kato]

He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;
When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.
Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.

Psalms 26 24-26See I'm sure Rees-Mogg follows that in his private life but when it come to his political life he doesn't allow his "deeply-held" Catholicism to get in the way and just lies, bare-faced to whole country. A man of ethics.

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[Glory Lurker]

Isn't the point to not be at Westminster?

Absolutely. But while we're there I'd not lose sleep over losing either or both of them.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/snp-conference-postponed-as-nicola-sturgeons-successor-announced-next-month

Timetable announced.


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Yeah, can't see much christian sentiment in there, told you.

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Voted against gay marriage and against allowing abortion under certain circumstances in NI at just a glance, neither of those are issues commonly associated with Abrahamic religions then? Come on mate


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[SteveHFC]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/snp-conference-postponed-as-nicola-sturgeons-successor-announced-next-month

Timetable announced.


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Wonder when the ‘de facto’ referendum will happen?

[Kato]

Voted against gay marriage and against allowing abortion under certain circumstances in NI at just a glance, neither of those are issues commonly associated with Abrahamic religions then? Come on mate


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere you go. What a hypocrite.

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[Ozyhibby]

We'd miss neither and still be by far the third biggest party at WM.

I’d happily see them both gone.


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[He's here!]

Absolutely. But while we're there I'd not lose sleep over losing either or both of them.

Cherry should be a top asset for the SNP so I'm glad they're too blinkered to see it. She has been shabbily treated by her party for daring to have a voice of her own. She'd have morons like Wishart on toast any day of the week.

[Zambernardi1875]

Cherry should be a top asset for the SNP so I'm glad they're too blinkered to see it. She has been shabbily treated by her party for daring to have a voice of her own. She'd have morons like Wishart on toast any day of the week.

i dont want anyone running the country who starts a slagging match on twitter. pathetic stuff, both stale bread both need binned

[Glory Lurker]

Cherry should be a top asset for the SNP so I'm glad they're too blinkered to see it. She has been shabbily treated by her party for daring to have a voice of her own. She'd have morons like Wishart on toast any day of the week.

Get her to join your lot then.

[Ozyhibby]

Cherry should be a top asset for the SNP so I'm glad they're too blinkered to see it. She has been shabbily treated by her party for daring to have a voice of her own. She'd have morons like Wishart on toast any day of the week.

Cherry might be a good lawyer but she is a terrible politician. And can start a fight in an empty room. Which is why she knows she has zero chance of being leader. She is deeply unpopular among her colleagues she works with daily. Fact is, she desperately wanted to go to Alba but lacked the bottle.


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[Ozyhibby]

i dont want anyone running the country who starts a slagging match on twitter. pathetic stuff, both stale bread both need binned

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/john-swinney-will-not-run-to-become-snp-leader-4030763

Swinney is out. Nobody out so far that I’m unhappy with.[emoji106]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.ft.com/content/e89d9e4b-df87-493e-9798-f9f96de8d11d?shareType=nongift

Ben Macpherson moves up in my estimation.


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[Glory Lurker]

https://www.ft.com/content/e89d9e4b-df87-493e-9798-f9f96de8d11d?shareType=nongift

Ben Macpherson moves up in my estimation.


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Paywalled out but he's a canny lad, like.

[Ryan91]

Paywalled out but he's a canny lad, like.

Here's the full text of the article


The Scottish National party should consider “more evolutionary” constitutional change an alternative to the “de facto” independence referendum proposed by Nicola Sturgeon, a member of the outgoing first minister’s government has said.

The call by Ben Macpherson, minister for social security and local government, highlights the intensifying debate inside the SNP over future strategy following Sturgeon’s shock resignation announcement on Wednesday.

The SNP’s national executive announced on Thursday that members would vote to elect Sturgeon’s successor as party leader and first minister between March 13 and March 27. It also decided to postpone a party conference scheduled for next month that had been intended to set the strategy for ending Scotland’s three-century-old union with England.

Sturgeon has called for the next UK general election to be used as a “de facto” referendum on Scottish independence, following the British government’s refusal to permit any rerun of the 2014 vote in which Scots backed staying in the union by 55 per cent to 45 per cent.

In the first public questioning of Sturgeon’s plan from a member of her administration, Macpherson told the Financial Times that other approaches should be considered.

“The question for the SNP now is whether we continue to seek to make progress through a short-term event like a de facto referendum election, or pivot to a more evolutionary process of delivering further constitutional change, working with others to build consensus and move forward,” he said.

Macpherson’s call is likely to dismay the more radical SNP members already impatient with what they see as Sturgeon’s overly cautious approach and her strong commitment to a legal and consensual independence process.

However, it will be welcomed by party colleagues who think a de facto referendum is unlikely to yield real progress towards ending the union, given that Westminster would be highly unlikely to accept even a majority vote for pro-independence parties as a mandate for separation.

Stewart McDonald, an SNP member in the UK parliament, published a paper last week arguing that a de facto referendum would be ineffective and calling for the party to focus instead on building support for independence.

Opinion polls suggest low support in Scotland for using an election as a proxy vote for constitutional change, dubbed by the SNP a “plebiscite election”. Many party members are also sceptical.

The SNP’s leader in Westminster, Stephen Flynn, had called on Thursday for next month’s strategy conference to be postponed. “The party should give the new leader the opportunity to set out their stance, their vision at how they see us getting to that independent future,” Flynn told Radio 4’s Today programme.

Sturgeon’s embrace of a plebiscite election was a response to a ruling from the UK Supreme Court last year that the Scottish parliament did not have the legal authority to hold an independence referendum without London’s approval.

Some of her MPs feared that turning the election into a single-issue vote could cost them their seats. In her resignation speech, Sturgeon acknowledged the disagreements, saying she wanted to “free” the party to make its own decision rather than go with her preferred position.

Flynn, who is not standing to replace Sturgeon, said he supported her position on the de facto referendum as a way to break the stalemate after the UK government had “defied democracy” by refusing a second plebiscite.

Sturgeon has also been privately criticised by some colleagues for failing to deliver a decisive boost in support for independence, with polls consistently showing the country almost evenly divided.

Some pro-union parties have hailed the impending departure of Sturgeon, whom her opponents concede is one of the most effective politicians of her generation, as a big blow to independence.

But while Sturgeon has no clear successor, Michael Russell, SNP president, said the party’s first contested leadership election since 2004 would be good for it and the wider campaign for independence.

“Rather than damaging the cause, I think it is an opportunity to renew and refresh the cause,” said Russell, a former cabinet secretary for the constitution who has supported the plebiscite election plan.

“I am very fond of Nicola and I think she has done enormously well, but the guard always changes and if the guard changes, you move on,” he said.

Others in the party see Sturgeon’s exit as a chance to ease the controversy over the Scottish parliament’s attempt to pass a law which would make it easier to obtain official recognition for changes of gender.

Polls suggest the legislation was opposed by most Scots, while a significant minority of the SNP’s own members agreed with London’s decision to veto the Scottish bill.

“It’s incumbent upon a new leader to try and find a path that allows us to have that positive discussion as to why this legislation is necessary, whilst of course addressing the understandable concerns,” Flynn said.

[Crunchie]

Cherry should be a top asset for the SNP so I'm glad they're too blinkered to see it. She has been shabbily treated by her party for daring to have a voice of her own. She'd have morons like Wishart on toast any day of the week.
She most definitely is streets ahead of anyone at Holyrood, and Westminster for that matter.

Speak out against any of the failed leaders policies will see you ostracised though and now they're left with no one of note.

The way they've treated that woman is shocking and I can't wait to read her book if and when it comes out.

[neil7908]

Whilst I'd agree that's going too far, it surely depends on which religion and how strongly they feel about aspects of it.

What about religions that think gay people are an abomination? The world rightly condemned Qatar for their views. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people with beliefs like this shouldn't hold public office in the UK.

There's millions of us that aren't religious at all. The thought of someone governing us based on their religion should terrify everyone.

I'm not against someone religious as FM but some of Forbes comments around how her beliefs influence her politics worry me slightly.

The below is from a Guardian article on her:

"Forbes has brushed off questions about whether her faith conflicts with SNP policies – such as establishing buffer zones around abortion clinics – by saying she stands by collective responsibility. But during a leadership contest, her own views would come under greater scrutiny given she would be the one ultimately making decisions.

“Politics will pass,” Forbes told the BBC’s Political Thinking podcast in May 2021. “I am a person before I was a politician and that person will continue to believe that I am made in the image of God.”

The line on collective responsibility works when you are a minister in cabinet. But as FM, she will be setting policy and deciding what areas to focus on, battles to fight etc. And I don't have much faith (pun intended) that she is the person to fight tooth and nail for abortion rights, gay rights etc. Yes she won't bin existing protections but there are many more battles to be fought, the culture wars are sadly not going away and new legislation will likely still be needed in the future around equalities. Again I struggle to see her championing that.

The second paragraph I've quoted is one I, as an atheist struggle to understand. How can you truly believe in the Almighty, and all that goes with organised religion, but then choose to wilfully ignore that in how you lead your professional life. That probably betrays an ignorance on my part but I find that tension hard to understand and it leaves me slightly wary.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not against someone religious as FM but some of Forbes comments around how her beliefs influence her politics worry me slightly.

The below is from a Guardian article on her:

"Forbes has brushed off questions about whether her faith conflicts with SNP policies – such as establishing buffer zones around abortion clinics – by saying she stands by collective responsibility. But during a leadership contest, her own views would come under greater scrutiny given she would be the one ultimately making decisions.

“Politics will pass,” Forbes told the BBC’s Political Thinking podcast in May 2021. “I am a person before I was a politician and that person will continue to believe that I am made in the image of God.”

The line on collective responsibility works when you are a minister in cabinet. But as FM, she will be setting policy and deciding what areas to focus on, battles to fight etc. And I don't have much faith (pun intended) that she is the person to fight tooth and nail for abortion rights, gay rights etc. Yes she won't bin existing protections but there are many more battles to be fought, the culture wars are sadly not going away and new legislation will likely still be needed in the future around equalities. Again I struggle to see her championing that.

The second paragraph I've quoted is one I, as an atheist struggle to understand. How can you truly believe in the Almighty, and all that goes with organised religion, but then choose to wilfully ignore that in how you lead your professional life. That probably betrays an ignorance on my part but I find that tension hard to understand and it leaves me slightly wary.

I think whoever gets the gig will stay well clear of any legislation regarding minority groups.


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[James310]

I think whoever gets the gig will stay well clear of any legislation regarding minority groups.


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That's the spirit, who cares about them when there is Independence to be won. I hope that doesn't extend to the current consultation on things like the Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodiversity Bill.

The GRA with some collaboration and compromise could have worked, it probably still could.

[Stairway 2 7]

The hypocrisy of calling for two GE when the last two tories took over PM due to no public mandate, then saying no Scottish election. Politicians really are all the same, you just vote for the least sleekit

Michael Blackley
@Mike_Blackley
·
53m
John Swinney on #bbcgms admits GRR has left his party divided
+ rejects calls for those who left over the issue to get vote in leadership contest
+ denies there should be an election despite SNP demanding a general election when PMs have quit

[Ozyhibby]

The hypocrisy of calling for two GE when the last two tories took over PM due to no public mandate, then saying no Scottish election. Politicians really are all the same, you just vote for the least sleekit

Michael Blackley
@Mike_Blackley
·
53m
John Swinney on #bbcgms admits GRR has left his party divided
+ rejects calls for those who left over the issue to get vote in leadership contest
+ denies there should be an election despite SNP demanding a general election when PMs have quit

I’d happily call a new election once new leader is in place. No point talking about it just now though. Hardly likely to call an election now when there is no leader.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think by now, given she has been away on maternity leave and has a very young family, that if Forbes wasn’t thinking of running she would have ruled herself out by now.
And I must admit, I’m beginning to think she might be perfect for the job. She’s more towards the centre and has a stronger grasp of economics than NS and I think the govt could do with a bit of that. She is very capable and has been a high achiever throughout her career.
The religion thing isn’t a problem for me as I don’t see the govt going near any social issues for a while now. And she has never shown it affecting her decision making so far.
She represents a change in direction and a new generation as well.
Might change my mind when campaign start but for now I think maybe.


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[Crunchie]

I think by now, given she has been away on maternity leave and has a very young family, that if Forbes wasn’t thinking of running she would have ruled herself out by now.
And I must admit, I’m beginning to think she might be perfect for the job. She’s more towards the centre and has a stronger grasp of economics than NS and I think the govt could do with a bit of that. She is very capable and has been a high achiever throughout her career.
The religion thing isn’t a problem for me as I don’t see the govt going near any social issues for a while now. And she has never shown it affecting her decision making so far.
She represents a change in direction and a new generation as well.
Might change my mind when campaign start but for now I think maybe.


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Having a better grasp of economics than NS isn't exactly a great endorsement for becoming FM, a pretty damning reflection on the possible candidates imo.
What's this change in direction you talk about? Surely NS wasn't taking you in the wrong direction? she could do no wrong in your eyes.

[wookie70]

The second paragraph I've quoted is one I, as an atheist struggle to understand. How can you truly believe in the Almighty, and all that goes with organised religion, but then choose to wilfully ignore that in how you lead your professional life. That probably betrays an ignorance on my part but I find that tension hard to understand and it leaves me slightly wary.

That is how I feel too. She will either go with science and against what she says she believes in or go with what she believes in and against science. Both positions make her unelectable to an atheist like me. I would like to know her views on evolution etc and how far her views go. Does she literally think we are an image of god or does she mean something different by that.

[Ozyhibby]

Having a better grasp of economics than NS isn't exactly a great endorsement for becoming FM, a pretty damning reflection on the possible candidates imo.
What's this change in direction you talk about? Surely NS wasn't taking you in the wrong direction? she could do no wrong in your eyes.

That last sentence just isn’t true, is it? I have made clear a few times that I think that things like rent controls not only don’t work but actually put up rents. I’ve said it on here many times. Fair enough if you were not paying attention. My kids don’t pay much attention to me either.


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[Ozyhibby]

That is how I feel too. She will either go with science and against what she says she believes in or go with what she believes in and against science. Both positions make her unelectable to an atheist like me. I would like to know her views on evolution etc and how far her views go. Does she literally think we are an image of god or does she mean something different by that.

Or she believes the church and state are separate and she will go with the advice of her ministers, civil servants, health professionals etc.
I am very much an atheist and think all religions are complete nonsense up there with believing the world is flat. I think they are that stupid.
But I am nowhere near the point where I want to ban religious people from elected positions. That is just crazy. I don’t see anyone complaining about Church of Scotland goers in govt? Catholics? Muslims? Buddhists?
Why is it such a big deal that this woman is religious but it’s alright for all those men?


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[Crunchie]

That last sentence just isn’t true, is it? I have made clear a few times that I think that things like rent controls not only don’t work but actually put up rents. I’ve said it on here many times. Fair enough if you were not paying attention. My kids don’t pay much attention to me either.


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I'm not on here anywhere near as much as you Oz,apologies for missing the rare occurrence when you disagreed with your beloved ex leader :greengrin.

[grunt]

I'm not on here anywhere near as much as you Oz,apologies for missing the rare occurrence when you disagreed with your beloved ex leader :greengrin.
This makes no sense. How can you say it's a rare occurrence in the same sentence as saying you're not on here to notice? Logical inconsistency.

[James310]

Ian Hyslop that well known far right commentator....said "What we’ll lose is the cult of personality, which I think will be a good thing"

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1626352694548918273?t=n7kw_f2EGN9fC5n0l0SVWQ&s=19

There was definitely a bit of a cult mentality built up around Nicola Sturgeon. Hopefully as he says that comes to an end with a new leader.

[Since90+2]

By the time the new leader is in place Kate Forbes will have been off on maternity for around 9 months.

That's either a coincidence or it's been timed to coincide with her return .

[weecounty hibby]

Ian Hyslop that well known far right commentator....said "What we’ll lose is the cult of personality, which I think will be a good thing"

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1626352694548918273?t=n7kw_f2EGN9fC5n0l0SVWQ&s=19

There was definitely a bit of a cult mentality built up around Nicola Sturgeon. Hopefully as he says that comes to an end with a new leader.

Was it a cult or was it that she was actually a pretty generous person who actually cared and was well liked by most. I have seen many stories from people who have had experiences with her going well out of her way for them on an individual basis. One in particular from a Herald journalist regarding his daughter. When you consider that and then look at the slave like devotion given to Johnson who had absolutely no redeeming features which one was cult like?

[Since90+2]

Was it a cult or was it that she was actually a pretty generous person who actually cared and was well liked by most. I have seen many stories from people who have had experiences with her going well out of her way for them on an individual basis. One in particular from a Herald journalist regarding his daughter. When you consider that and then look at the slave like devotion given to Johnson who had absolutely no redeeming features which one was cult like?

People liked her because you can tell she genuinely cares for the people of Scotland. You don't have to agree with her policies, but I don't think even her biggest critics can deny she wants nothing but the best for the people of Scotland.

If anyone thinks the same of Boris and co then they need help.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I think by now, given she has been away on maternity leave and has a very young family, that if Forbes wasn’t thinking of running she would have ruled herself out by now.
And I must admit, I’m beginning to think she might be perfect for the job. She’s more towards the centre and has a stronger grasp of economics than NS and I think the govt could do with a bit of that. She is very capable and has been a high achiever throughout her career.
The religion thing isn’t a problem for me as I don’t see the govt going near any social issues for a while now. And she has never shown it affecting her decision making so far.
She represents a change in direction and a new generation as well.
Might change my mind when campaign start but for now I think maybe.


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The fact she’s more towards the e centre economically and issues surrounding her views on social matters like abortion and lgbtq+ rights would mean losing swathes of young voters, especially in Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow imo


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[Ozyhibby]

The fact she’s more towards the e centre economically and issues surrounding her views on social matters like abortion and lgbtq+ rights would mean losing swathes of young voters, especially in Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow imo


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She is still left of centre. I don’t think that will be a problem.


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

She is still left of centre. I don’t think that will be a problem.


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Maybe I’m just a raging commie, I know for a fact I’m probably further to the left than most on here and in UK society in general but any move further to the right would be to the detriment of the party considering the SNP are one of the few actual left wing parties in UK politics at the moment?


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[neil7908]

Or she believes the church and state are separate and she will go with the advice of her ministers, civil servants, health professionals etc.
I am very much an atheist and think all religions are complete nonsense up there with believing the world is flat. I think they are that stupid.
But I am nowhere near the point where I want to ban religious people from elected positions. That is just crazy. I don’t see anyone complaining about Church of Scotland goers in govt? Catholics? Muslims? Buddhists?
Why is it such a big deal that this woman is religious but it’s alright for all those men?


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I don't think myself or Wookie are looking to ban religious people from office.

I think it's completely reasonable though to want more information and reassurance on their opinions and beliefs and some clarity on how they make political decisions in light of those competing interests.

[ElginHibbie]

Or she believes the church and state are separate and she will go with the advice of her ministers, civil servants, health professionals etc.
I am very much an atheist and think all religions are complete nonsense up there with believing the world is flat. I think they are that stupid.
But I am nowhere near the point where I want to ban religious people from elected positions. That is just crazy. I don’t see anyone complaining about Church of Scotland goers in govt? Catholics? Muslims? Buddhists?
Why is it such a big deal that this woman is religious but it’s alright for all those men?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She's a Ross County fan and we are still upset about their goal?

[hibsbollah]

I don't think myself or Wookie are looking to ban religious people from office.

I think it's completely reasonable though to want more information and reassurance on their opinions and beliefs and some clarity on how they make political decisions in light of those competing interests.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6nG9BeV48EJKsQeFm6Mhwb?si=tMP676llSESoqiBtmjMUuA

Posting this interview again, from a couple of years ago. Her perspective on her beliefs.

[SHODAN]

She is still left of centre. I don’t think that will be a problem.


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https://i.imgur.com/H0sW7hh.png

Her religion isn't the problem. Stuff like this is, and the links between the ever-more influential transphobe lobby and the anti-abortion lobby are well documented. We can kiss goodbye any hope of buffer zones if she gets in, for starters.

The SNP will lose a lot of young people if Forbes is elected leader. They might hold onto a majority with the Greens (if willing to work with Forbes), but it'll deal a severe blow to independence.

[Since90+2]

https://i.imgur.com/H0sW7hh.png

Her religion isn't the problem. Stuff like this is, and the links between the ever-more influential transphobe lobby and the anti-abortion lobby are well documented. We can kiss goodbye any hope of buffer zones if she gets in, for starters.

The SNP will lose a lot of young people if Forbes is elected leader. They might hold onto a majority with the Greens (if willing to work with Forbes), but it'll deal a severe blow to independence.

Who do you think is a bigger vote winner than her in the leadership contest?

[WhileTheChief..]

People liked her because you can tell she genuinely cares for the people of Scotland. You don't have to agree with her policies, but I don't think even her biggest critics can deny she wants nothing but the best for the people of Scotland.

If anyone thinks the same of Boris and co then they need help.

I'm not so sure about that. Her take on Scots that voted Conservative was pretty disgusting.

She was right in her speech about the tone of politics being kinda nasty nowadays but she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives at every turn.

We see it on here too. You rarely see the posters here who are against Indy having a pop at anyone else. But there a few fervent Indy supporters that take digs at anyone who even slightly suggests the SNP aren't 100% correct on everything.

If the new leader is more amicable to all of us, I hope SNP supporters can follow suit.

Alex Salmond talked about the need to keep the Gov separate form the Indy movement. He's 100% correct there.

The Gov should concentrate on trying to improve the country whilst in office and leave others to fight the case for Indy.

[neil7908]

https://i.imgur.com/H0sW7hh.png

Her religion isn't the problem. Stuff like this is, and the links between the ever-more influential transphobe lobby and the anti-abortion lobby are well documented. We can kiss goodbye any hope of buffer zones if she gets in, for starters.

The SNP will lose a lot of young people if Forbes is elected leader. They might hold onto a majority with the Greens (if willing to work with Forbes), but it'll deal a severe blow to independence.

Yeah that's the kind of thing that worries me. Sturgeon has rightly distanced the SNP from Soutar and he's not someone I want anywhere near politicians with decision making powers.

[Santa Cruz]

I'm not so sure about that. Her take on Scots that voted Conservative was pretty disgusting.

She was right in her speech about the tone of politics being kinda nasty nowadays but she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives at every turn.

We see it on here too. You rarely see the posters here who are against Indy having a pop at anyone else. But there a few fervent Indy supporters that take digs at anyone who even slightly suggests the SNP aren't 100% correct on everything.

If the new leader is more amicable to all of us, I hope SNP supporters can follow suit.

Alex Salmond talked about the need to keep the Gov separate form the Indy movement. He's 100% correct there.

The Gov should concentrate on trying to improve the country whilst in office and leave others to fight the case for Indy.

I wouldn't be fooled by this. Suits him to say that seeing as he sits outside Gov, it would create an opening for him to re-enter as leading a Yes movement seperate from the SG. He's as calculating as they come. He can't handle being out of the lime light, he's finally found an opening for his gargantuan ego.

[WhileTheChief..]

I wouldn't be fooled by this. Suits him to say that seeing as he sits outside Gov, it would create an opening for him to re-enter as leading a Yes movement seperate from the SG. He's as calculating as they come. He can't handle being out of the lime light, he's finally found an opening for his gargantuan ego.

Would that be a bad thing?I'm not in favour of Indy but I think Salmond puts the case for it way better than NS ever did.

He's talked a lot of sense about it this week.

[Santa Cruz]

Would that be a bad thing?I'm not in favour of Indy but I think Salmond puts the case for it way better than NS ever did.

He's talked a lot of sense about it this week.

Don't see where their platform comes from. He would appeal to current Yes voters, undecided voters aren't turning up at conferences, events etc to be won over, they will watch to see how the country is being run and take a decision based on the SG's performance. Would have thought their best chance was working together as a Government. As a poster pointed out Alba don't get enough votes to win seats, so he's just looking for a way back into a prominent position on a public stage imo. He''s a skilled orator, but lacks the likeability factor NS had with a high % of voters, added to her own impressive comms skills.

[SHODAN]

Who do you think is a bigger vote winner than her in the leadership contest?

To be honest, probably only Robertson.

[James310]

I'm not so sure about that. Her take on Scots that voted Conservative was pretty disgusting.

She was right in her speech about the tone of politics being kinda nasty nowadays but she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives at every turn.

We see it on here too. You rarely see the posters here who are against Indy having a pop at anyone else. But there a few fervent Indy supporters that take digs at anyone who even slightly suggests the SNP aren't 100% correct on everything.

If the new leader is more amicable to all of us, I hope SNP supporters can follow suit.

Alex Salmond talked about the need to keep the Gov separate form the Indy movement. He's 100% correct there.

The Gov should concentrate on trying to improve the country whilst in office and leave others to fight the case for Indy.

Would agree with pretty much this. I have said that there are a small minority of Indy supporters who actually prefer the fight with the Tories/Labour more than they do to getting Independence. I am suspecting they are older ex Labour voters but I might be wrong.

Independence will be won by governing well and making positive and lasting change for the people of Scotland, show us what you can do rather than always moaning about what you can't do.

[Since90+2]

To be honest, probably only Robertson.

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Forbes would be a far bigger success than Robertson IMO.

She's bright, engaging, honest and has no political baggag.

[Pretty Boy]

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Forbes would be a far bigger success than Robertson IMO.

She's bright, engaging, honest and has no political baggag.

It's also worth considering she's a politician and one who seems fairly ambitious at that.

Given her rise through the ranks it is probably fair to assume she is a pragmatist, quite possibly with a ruthless streak as well. It's almost impossible to succeed in frontline politics without at least one of those traits.

As such she'll be aware of what is popular and what is not. Whilst she may have personal reservations around abortion or gay marriage or whatever she will also be smart enough to know repealing progressive legislation or blocking legislation around things like buffer zones is a guaranteed vote loser. Active campaigning against such issues is a minority activity even among people who practice their religion so there is no trade off between votes lost versus votes gained.

As I've said before she deserves a fair hearing rather than assumptions and generalisations about her personal politics based on her church membership or an event she spoke at 5 years ago. If her views are genuinely abhorrent or regressive then she will be unsuccessful in any leadership bid and/or at the ballot box. Beyond that she would govern with collective responsibility, she simply won't have the power to block or repeal legislation on a whim based on her personal beliefs.

There are people in many walks of life that directly impact others; medicine, science, law, education, politics etc etc. who hold religious and spiritual beliefs but also possess an ability to think logically, compassionately and scientifically when making crucial decisions. It's not one or the other.

[Stairway 2 7]

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Forbes would be a far bigger success than Robertson IMO.

She's bright, engaging, honest and has no political baggag.

I'm becoming confident Forbes is the best chance of independence. Not sure if she's what's wanted from the people who will decide our new FM, the snp members.

[grunt]

She was right in her speech about the tone of politics being kinda nasty nowadays but she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives at every turn.
This is kind of funny. Sturgeon is to blame for the division in the country by "hating on Conservatives".

These are the Conservatives who (list from the top of my head, no looking stuff up):


called a UK wide referendum on an issue that was nowhere near the top of anyone's concerns, in order to deal with an internal Party issue
decided to implement the hardest of Brexits based on a marginal result in a non-binding advisory referendum
tried to prorogue Parliament in order to avoid scrutiny
broke international law (admittedly only in a limited and specific way)
created the Home Office hostile environment
is trying to send immigrants 7000 miles away to Rwanda
broke the Home Office to such an extent it no longer functions
are guilty of a loooooong list of corrupt practices including taking money from Russia, cheating on planning rules, billions on PPE contracts for their mates
partying against their own guidance while we were all complying with lockdown and while our elderly relatives were dying alone
and laughing about it
Rees Mogg and his Victorian views
Nadine Dorries and her stupid ignorance
Raab and his bullying
Hancock and his simpering vanity
Patel and her support for capital punishment
Braverman (say no more)
links to far Right organisations and white supremacists
the Russia report
Conservative MPs with second jobs and lobbying for money
decade long running down of law courts, police and NHS
Truss and breaking the UK economy, crashing mortgage rates and pensions
Sunak and his non-dom wife
All the other non-dom Tory donors - what do they get for their donations do you think?
Johnson and his courting of KGB hoods
**** in the rivers and seas
the active support of gas and oil companies despite scientific evidence of their damage
mismanagement of covid leading to tens of thousands of excess deaths
underpaying public workers and refusing to negotiate with them
breaking - everything - in the UK
Lee Anderson and his far right chums
Kwarteng seemingly on drugs during the Queen's funeral
the treatment of the SNP in the HoC whenever Blackford rose to speak
Zahawi's tax evasion


I could go on. But you think it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault for calling this out and "creating division"? Deary me.

[He's here!]

To be honest, probably only Robertson.

Smarminess personified. Although, without divulging details, I gather his wife may be more of a hindrance than a help to his ambitions when it comes to popularity within the party. Having had the misfortune to once work with her I can understand such a view.

On another issue, I'm bemused that sleekit Murrell seems to be remaining in post to oversee the election. Seems wrong for a number of reasons, conflict of interest being the most obvious one.

[WhileTheChief..]

This is kind of funny. Sturgeon is to blame for the division in the country by "hating on Conservatives".

These are the Conservatives who (list from the top of my head, no looking stuff up):


called a UK wide referendum on an issue that was nowhere near the top of anyone's concerns, in order to deal with an internal Party issue
decided to implement the hardest of Brexits based on a marginal result in a non-binding advisory referendum
tried to prorogue Parliament in order to avoid scrutiny
broke international law (admittedly only in a limited and specific way)
created the Home Office hostile environment
is trying to send immigrants 7000 miles away to Rwanda
broke the Home Office to such an extent it no longer functions
are guilty of a loooooong list of corrupt practices including taking money from Russia, cheating on planning rules, billions on PPE contracts for their mates
partying against their own guidance while we were all complying with lockdown and while our elderly relatives were dying alone
and laughing about it
Rees Mogg and his Victorian views
Nadine Dorries and her stupid ignorance
Raab and his bullying
Hancock and his simpering vanity
Patel and her support for capital punishment
Braverman (say no more)
links to far Right organisations and white supremacists
the Russia report
Conservative MPs with second jobs and lobbying for money
decade long running down of law courts, police and NHS
Truss and breaking the UK economy, crashing mortgage rates and pensions
Sunak and his non-dom wife
All the other non-dom Tory donors - what do they get for their donations do you think?
Johnson and his courting of KGB hoods
**** in the rivers and seas
the active support of gas and oil companies despite scientific evidence of their damage
mismanagement of covid leading to tens of thousands of excess deaths
underpaying public workers and refusing to negotiate with them
breaking - everything - in the UK
Lee Anderson and his far right chums
Kwarteng seemingly on drugs during the Queen's funeral
the treatment of the SNP in the HoC whenever Blackford rose to speak
Zahawi's tax evasion


I could go on. But you think it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault for calling this out and "creating division"? Deary me.

Once again you miss the point entirely in your continued need for an argument.

I'm talking about the people of Scotland who voted conservative. They didn't do any of the things on that list.

You're only happy when fighting and arguing and constantly take digs at me for absolutely no reason.

Just stop with the constant digs. The rest of us are trying to discuss things but you bring it down to this kind of crap all the time.

[Ozyhibby]

Smarminess personified. Although, without divulging details, I gather his wife may be more of a hindrance than a help to his ambitions when it comes to popularity within the party. Having had the misfortune to once work with her I can understand such a view.

On another issue, I'm bemused that sleekit Murrell seems to be remaining in post to oversee the election. Seems wrong for a number of reasons, conflict of interest being the most obvious one.

Surely only a conflict if his wife was standing again?


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[James310]

Smarminess personified. Although, without divulging details, I gather his wife may be more of a hindrance than a help to his ambitions when it comes to popularity within the party. Having had the misfortune to once work with her I can understand such a view.

On another issue, I'm bemused that sleekit Murrell seems to be remaining in post to oversee the election. Seems wrong for a number of reasons, conflict of interest being the most obvious one.

It was weird he was the CEO while she was the leader, it's even weirder he remains in post and will I assume remain as the CEO and the "boss" of the new leader. It's messed up and if it happened with any other party people would be like WTF.

The rumours are he may be soon be interviewed under police caution regarding the missing Independence money.

If the SNP are serious of a clean start he goes and the National Executive Committee is refreshed, otherwise it's more of the same and he will probably be pulling the strings behind the scenes with his wife.

[One Day Soon]

When a politician resigns suddenly and unexpectedly with no very obvious reason for doing so it is generally not a good sign. Particularly when almost everyone close to them is caught unawares.

That she had been courting a number of individuals and organisations about a future role was well known. That she has gone so quickly without securing that role is curious. I would expect a lot more to emerge in the coming weeks and months.

In the meantime it is a wide open field of not particularly strong looking candidates. The better of them are dragging around some personal stuff which would inevitably come into the spotlight and be difficult. For example I like Forbes but how she will square the personal with the political is difficult to see. The weaker ones are all a bit 'meh'.

I'll guess it will ultimately be Robertson. Followed by a long, drawn out series of internecine fights and disagreements between personalities and over tactics and policy. With Salmond on the sidelines, nursing his wrath. Like John Smith he has 'unfinished business' and I doubt he'll be letting it go - and there are some who should probably be quite worried about that.

[grunt]

I'm talking about the people of Scotland who voted conservative. They didn't do any of the things on that list.


You said (see below) "she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives ..." You weren't talking about the people in Scotland who voted Conservative. It's very clear that there's no qualification in the sentence I quoted. Let's just look at your words again, "hating on Conservatives".
The people in Scotland who voted Conservative have enabled and continue to ignore / tacitly agree with the things I listed. Unless you're trying to say that voting Conservative doesn't mean you espouse Conservative policies?



She was right in her speech about the tone of politics being kinda nasty nowadays but she did as much as anyone to create the divide in our country by hating on Conservatives at every turn.

If you don't like "my kind of crap" put me on ignore. But I would like to point out that the crap you so clearly dislike is my list of a sample of Conservative actions over the last 10 years.

[grunt]

The rumours are he may be soon be interviewed under police caution regarding the missing Independence money.
Where have you heard these rumours? Wings? Or Craig Murray?

[Ozyhibby]

Where have you heard these rumours? Wings? Or Craig Murray?

I wouldn’t pay any attention to that clown.


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[He's here!]

Surely only a conflict if his wife was standing again?


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http://robinmcalpine.org/stop-murrells-corruption-now/

'Stop Murrell's corruption NOW.'

[Ozyhibby]

Prob should try keep this thread for the runners and riders?


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[grunt]

Prob should try keep this thread for the runners and riders?Sorry. Mea culpa.

[Glory Lurker]

http://robinmcalpine.org/stop-murrells-corruption-now/

'Stop Murrell's corruption NOW.'

As a member I'm pleased that we're not drawing out the contest. Get it done and get on with it. I'm not seeing it as corrupt at all.

[Mibbes Aye]

When a politician resigns suddenly and unexpectedly with no very obvious reason for doing so it is generally not a good sign. Particularly when almost everyone close to them is caught unawares.

That she had been courting a number of individuals and organisations about a future role was well known. That she has gone so quickly without securing that role is curious. I would expect a lot more to emerge in the coming weeks and months.

In the meantime it is a wide open field of not particularly strong looking candidates. The better of them are dragging around some personal stuff which would inevitably come into the spotlight and be difficult. For example I like Forbes but how she will square the personal with the political is difficult to see. The weaker ones are all a bit 'meh'.

I'll guess it will ultimately be Robertson. Followed by a long, drawn out series of internecine fights and disagreements between personalities and over tactics and policy. With Salmond on the sidelines, nursing his wrath. Like John Smith he has 'unfinished business' and I doubt he'll be letting it go - and there are some who should probably be quite worried about that.

I had heard there was £1million of South African diamonds in a safe in Bute House but of course it's only a rumour.

[Mibbes Aye]

I wouldn’t pay any attention to that clown.


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Slightly off-topic but there was a time when Wings and Murray were very favourably linked to by nationalist brethren on here. Mind you I used to reckon Andy Dow was an unrecognised talent for us at one time as well :greengrin

[He's here!]

Where have you heard these rumours? Wings? Or Craig Murray?

It's common knowledge there's an ongoing police investigation into this issue (it was what the final question in Sturgeons' resignation press conference related to):

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19905466.police-receive-key-documents-600k-raised-snp-independence-campaign-fraud-inquiry/

Certainly more than a whiff of financial scandal but we await proof.

[Ozyhibby]

Slightly off-topic but there was a time when Wings and Murray were very favourably linked to by nationalist brethren on here. Mind you I used to reckon Andy Dow was an unrecognised talent for us at one time as well :greengrin

How things change. I’ve only ever seen links to them posted NO posters over the last few years. To be honest Murray always struck me as an oddball and the wings site doesn’t really match my more centrist outlook economically and I’m very much a gradualist when it comes to Indy. They both appear to have gone full mentalist recently. Up there with the long haired geology guy who used to be on TV and is now on GB news.
I used to think that maybe people like that have just lost it but I’m starting to realise that it can be very lucrative spinning conspiracy theories on the web if you can build up a following. It’s maybe just a commercial decision.


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[James310]

Where have you heard these rumours? Wings? Or Craig Murray?

She was asked a couple of times at her press conference, off camera your favourite journalist Glenn Campbell could be heard saying "all sorts of stuff are swirling around" with regards the police and the missing money.

It was widely reported in the media as well the police have recently stepped up their investigation. A few on here will have red faces if anything becomes of it.

[Kato]

This is kind of funny. Sturgeon is to blame for the division in the country by "hating on Conservatives".

These are the Conservatives who (list from the top of my head, no looking stuff up):


called a UK wide referendum on an issue that was nowhere near the top of anyone's concerns, in order to deal with an internal Party issue
decided to implement the hardest of Brexits based on a marginal result in a non-binding advisory referendum
tried to prorogue Parliament in order to avoid scrutiny
broke international law (admittedly only in a limited and specific way)
created the Home Office hostile environment
is trying to send immigrants 7000 miles away to Rwanda
broke the Home Office to such an extent it no longer functions
are guilty of a loooooong list of corrupt practices including taking money from Russia, cheating on planning rules, billions on PPE contracts for their mates
partying against their own guidance while we were all complying with lockdown and while our elderly relatives were dying alone
and laughing about it
Rees Mogg and his Victorian views
Nadine Dorries and her stupid ignorance
Raab and his bullying
Hancock and his simpering vanity
Patel and her support for capital punishment
Braverman (say no more)
links to far Right organisations and white supremacists
the Russia report
Conservative MPs with second jobs and lobbying for money
decade long running down of law courts, police and NHS
Truss and breaking the UK economy, crashing mortgage rates and pensions
Sunak and his non-dom wife
All the other non-dom Tory donors - what do they get for their donations do you think?
Johnson and his courting of KGB hoods
**** in the rivers and seas
the active support of gas and oil companies despite scientific evidence of their damage
mismanagement of covid leading to tens of thousands of excess deaths
underpaying public workers and refusing to negotiate with them
breaking - everything - in the UK
Lee Anderson and his far right chums
Kwarteng seemingly on drugs during the Queen's funeral
the treatment of the SNP in the HoC whenever Blackford rose to speak
Zahawi's tax evasion


I could go on. But you think it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault for calling this out and "creating division"? Deary me....and there are journalists in the press, who we supposed to believe are in good faith, want Johnson back....

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[marinello59]

How things change. I’ve only ever seen links to them posted NO posters over the last few years. To be honest Murray always struck me as an oddball and the wings site doesn’t really match my more centrist outlook economically and I’m very much a gradualist when it comes to Indy. They both appear to have gone full mentalist recently. Up there with the long haired geology guy who used to be on TV and is now on GB news.
I used to think that maybe people like that have just lost it but I’m starting to realise that it can be very lucrative spinning conspiracy theories on the web if you can build up a following. It’s maybe just a commercial decision.


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Wings has not changed his style at all, he just stopped telling one group what they wanted to hear as he has found another more lucrative group. I could never get my head round anyone thinking he was some sort of crusading journalist. I took a glance at wings yesterday for the first time in ages and I’m struggling to se why he isn’t getting done for hate crimes.
As for Murray he had plenty of support during the Salmond trial before rather belatedly people realised what an utter chancer he was and that his real target was Sturgeon.

[Kato]

Wings has not changed his style at all, he just stopped telling one group what they wanted to hear as he has found another more lucrative group. I could never get my head round anyone thinking he was some sort of crusading journalist. I took a glance at wings yesterday for the first time in ages and I’m struggling to se why he isn’t getting done for hate crimes.
As for Murray he had plenty of support during the Salmond trial before rather belatedly people realised what an utter chancer he was and that his real target was Sturgeon.WoS changed tack after he was taken into police custody and subsequently. His u-turn pivoted on that incident, by coincidence of course.

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[James310]

Slightly off-topic but there was a time when Wings and Murray were very favourably linked to by nationalist brethren on here. Mind you I used to reckon Andy Dow was an unrecognised talent for us at one time as well :greengrin

Wings has his many faults, like the nonsense stuff he published in 2014 that Senior SNP figures used to promote, but in recent times he has said there won't be any referendum in 2023 despite Nicola Sturgeon saying there would and he called the Trans Bill shambles years ago. He has proven to be right a number of times and it makes Yes voters very uncomfortable so they tend to rubbish him.

[marinello59]

She was asked a couple of times at her press conference, off camera your favourite journalist Glenn Campbell could be heard saying "all sorts of stuff are swirling around" with regards the police and the missing money.

It was widely reported in the media as well the police have recently stepped up their investigation. A few on here will have red faces if anything becomes of it.

Whether you think the SNP have committed fraud or not with the so called ringfenced money you would have had to have been living on the moon not to have read about it or seen it reported on the mainstream media.

[neil7908]

She was asked a couple of times at her press conference, off camera your favourite journalist Glenn Campbell could be heard saying "all sorts of stuff are swirling around" with regards the police and the missing money.

It was widely reported in the media as well the police have recently stepped up their investigation. A few on here will have red faces if anything becomes of it.

Will those on here pushing this story have red faces if nothing comes of it?