So the runners and riders are...

[marinello59]

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Forbes would be a far bigger success than Robertson IMO.

She's bright, engaging, honest and has no political baggag.

I’d say Forbes was the outstanding candidate so far for the reasons you have given above.
I find it refreshing that she doesn’t try and hide her faith. It’s obviously heartfelt and an important part of who she is. The whole Indy movement leaves me cold right now, the politics of division and intolerance rule the day. I think Forbes can reverse that
She is on record as saying she will always be guided by her faith but would not make decisions based on the diktats of any church. That last phrase is crucial. For me as long as she is honest, and that is a rarity amongst todays politicians, then she deserves her chance.

[Ozyhibby]

5.30 and still not a single runner or rider. [emoji23] I guess it will be Monday now as they spend the weekend trying to build support teams.


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[Berwickhibby]

5.30 and still not a single runner or rider. [emoji23] I guess it will be Monday now as they spend the weekend trying to build support teams.


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According to Radio Scotland Humza has said he will be putting himself forward for leadership.

[marinello59]

According to Radio Scotland Humza has said he will be putting himself forward for leadership.

We all laughed when Truss put herself forward. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

5.30 and still not a single runner or rider. [emoji23] I guess it will be Monday now as they spend the weekend trying to build support teams.


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.... or find out how much of the £600k they're entitled to.


(someone had to say it.......)

[Ozyhibby]

According to Radio Scotland Humza has said he will be putting himself forward for leadership.

He’s not done it yet then because his name hasn’t appeared on the nominations page yet for members.


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[Ozyhibby]

.... or find out how much of the £600k they're entitled to.


(someone had to say it.......)

[emoji23]


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[Mibbes Aye]

5.30 and still not a single runner or rider. [emoji23] I guess it will be Monday now as they spend the weekend trying to build support teams.


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Go on son, plant your flag and declare first. Seize the initiative. You might even persuade me to vote for you!

Alternatively, there are a good few SNP supporters on here. We should start a thread where they get a post to make their campaign pitch, maybe their view on a preset range of policies. Only constructive replies allowed from others. I think it would be fascinating because there is clearly a lot of SNP supporters but I don’t think for a second they share a uniform outlook on all the matters of the day.

[James310]

Will those on here pushing this story have red faces if nothing comes of it?

No, because they have not said there is a definite case of fraud, while a few have said there is most certainly nothing in it.

[Skol]

What happens if no one throws their hat in the ring !

I think the contenders will be brown, Forbes, Robertson and yousuf with maybe another dark horse that emerges.

Yousuf I think would be a disaster

Brown would be more of the same, but even more bombastic and without the communication skills

Robertson would be too similar to sturgeon but I think most likely to get the party vote

Forbes I think is most likely to be the best option, but will her religious beliefs be her Achilles heel.

[Ozyhibby]

What happens if no one throws their hat in the ring !

I think the contenders will be brown, Forbes, Robertson and yousuf with maybe another dark horse that emerges.

Yousuf I think would be a disaster

Brown would be more of the same, but even more bombastic and without the communication skills

Robertson would be too similar to sturgeon but I think most likely to get the party vote

Forbes I think is most likely to be the best option, but will her religious beliefs be her Achilles heel.

I think there will probably be another couple on top of that who have no chance of winning but will want to increase their profile for future ministerial jobs and a future leadership campaign.


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[The Harp Awakes]

What happens if no one throws their hat in the ring !

I think the contenders will be brown, Forbes, Robertson and yousuf with maybe another dark horse that emerges.

Yousuf I think would be a disaster

Brown would be more of the same, but even more bombastic and without the communication skills

Robertson would be too similar to sturgeon but I think most likely to get the party vote

Forbes I think is most likely to be the best option, but will her religious beliefs be her Achilles heel.

Although Angus Robertson may have a similar political outlook to Nicola and also a great orator, the difference is he is a more outgoing character, is well respected in Westminster and has leadership experience.

He's also the most likely candidate to connect with undecided voters and build alliances at Westminster.

For me, the most likely way to secure indyref2 and gain independence is by connecting with those with opposing views, whether that be with the electorate or the Westminster Government; Tory or Labour. I think Robertson is the best option to achieve that.

He'll be getting my vote.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/kate-forbes-takes-an-early-lead-in-first-poll-since-nicola-sturgeons-resignation-4032286

Early poll lead for Forbes.


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[Ozyhibby]

Although Angus Robertson may have a similar political outlook to Nicola and also a great orator, the difference is he is a more outgoing character, is well respected in Westminster and has leadership experience.

He's also the most likely candidate to connect with undecided voters and build alliances at Westminster.

For me, the most likely way to secure indyref2 and gain independence is by connecting with those with opposing views, whether that be with the electorate or the Westminster Government; Tory or Labour. I think Robertson is the best option to achieve that.

He'll be getting my vote.

I wonder if he and Forbes do a deal much like Salmond and Sturgeon in 2004? No basis for me thinking that other than just speculating.


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[Stairway 2 7]

No way Robertson is achieving anything Sturgeon didn't in regards to independence, uninspiring. Another poll with no leading, something has to change, not more of the same

[The Harp Awakes]

I wonder if he and Forbes do a deal much like Salmond and Sturgeon in 2004? No basis for me thinking that other than just speculating.


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Would be a good double act for sure. Kate Forbes is certainly impressive but my worry is her inexperience. Would she be able to stand up to the hostile media who will be out to get her from day 1?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230217/f5627727d5ea0c9d529c3a096bc91cb2.jpg
Forbes out in front with Ipsos as well.


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

The new leader needs to have energy and be able to inspire people, can’t see Robertson doing that. I’ve already said who my preferred leader would be, but with it being so unlikely I can’t see any of the other candidates fulfilling that criteria? A balance needs to be struck between the younger voters who are overwhelming pro GRA (and other similar policies) and more traditional voters who are disillusioned by this sort of thing. Tough gig for whoever gets it


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[James310]

Although Angus Robertson may have a similar political outlook to Nicola and also a great orator, the difference is he is a more outgoing character, is well respected in Westminster and has leadership experience.

He's also the most likely candidate to connect with undecided voters and build alliances at Westminster.

For me, the most likely way to secure indyref2 and gain independence is by connecting with those with opposing views, whether that be with the electorate or the Westminster Government; Tory or Labour. I think Robertson is the best option to achieve that.

He'll be getting my vote.

The poll quoted above suggests 39% don't even know who he is.

[The Harp Awakes]

No way Robertson is achieving anything Sturgeon didn't in regards to independence, uninspiring. Another poll with no leading, something has to change, not more of the same

I take your point but an SNP FM is a really tough gig. At the same time as leading the Government, they are responsible for leading the independence movement.

Not a job for a startled rabbit.

[Ozyhibby]

The big numbers in those polls who say they don’t know the candidates mean it’s wide open for someone who has a good campaign and connects with the members.


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[The Harp Awakes]

The poll quoted above suggests 39% don't even know who he is.

Good, less baggage then.

As I said to you in another thread, he's been out of politics from 2018 for the most part, so not surprising he's not well known.

[Stairway 2 7]

Would be a good double act for sure. Kate Forbes is certainly impressive but my worry is her inexperience. Would she be able to stand up to the hostile media who will be out to get her from day 1?

Sanna Marin had similar experience and is smashing being Finnish leader and has huge issues like nato membership and misogynistic media, Jacinda Ardern not much more experience also and smashed covid. I think women make better leaders.

I'm not particularly a fan of Forbes but I think she would be capable

[The Harp Awakes]

Sanna Marin had similar experience and is smashing being Finnish leader and has huge issues like nato membership and misogynistic media, Jacinda Ardern not much more experience also and smashed covid. I think women make better leaders.

I'm not particularly a fan of Forbes but I think she would be capable

Good point. Being young and inexperienced doesn't automatically mean weakness. And I suppose her Christian values will mean the right wing media will have one less angle of attack on her.

I suspect the winner will be between Kate and Angus.

[Ozyhibby]

Salmond backing Forbes.


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[marinello59]

Salmond backing Forbes.


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Did she upset him? :greengrin

[grunt]

Whether you think the SNP have committed fraud or not with the so called ringfenced money you would have had to have been living on the moon not to have read about it or seen it reported on the mainstream media.

I've only seen it inferred on here. Not read about it elsewhere.

[Stairway 2 7]

Salmond backing Forbes.


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What's it got to do with him ha will they ask Sarwar

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/7303fcc86d4d2799a6a5924b055e68dd.jpg
Is anyone barred or is it just that only party members can vote?


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/7303fcc86d4d2799a6a5924b055e68dd.jpg
Is anyone barred or is it just that only party members can vote?


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I think I heard that those who were members at the time of nicola Sturgeon's announcement on Wednesday, it makes sense otherwise some people might join with the wrong intentions 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

I think I heard that those who were members at the time of nicola Sturgeon's announcement on Wednesday, it makes sense otherwise some people might join with the wrong intentions 😉

Yeah can't have the general public choosing our leaders who don't have a mandate from said public

[Stairway 2 7]

The UK's leading activaxer, grifter, conspiracy nut and Jacinda Ardern hater backs Robertson

James Melville
@JamesMelville
I hope that the next First Minister of Scotland is Angus Robertson /
@AngusRobertson
.
He’s a politician of real gravitas and has the ability to unite the country with his balanced approach and professionalism. He’s also a bloody decent bloke

[James310]

Will there be TV debates with the candidates? Angus Robertson having a go at Kate Forbes and vice versa.

[Ozyhibby]

I think I heard that those who were members at the time of nicola Sturgeon's announcement on Wednesday, it makes sense otherwise some people might join with the wrong intentions [emoji6]


Yeah can't have the general public choosing our leaders who don't have a mandate from said public

I don’t think you have to look much further than the Labour Party in 2015 to see how damaging it can be to let your opponents choose your leader. And the damage was done to the whole country, not just Labour.
I’d prefer the leader of the party to be chosen by the MSP’s but 2nd to that has to be party members.


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[Ozyhibby]

The UK's leading activaxer, grifter, conspiracy nut and Jacinda Ardern hater backs Robertson

James Melville
@JamesMelville
I hope that the next First Minister of Scotland is Angus Robertson /
@AngusRobertson
.
He’s a politician of real gravitas and has the ability to unite the country with his balanced approach and professionalism. He’s also a bloody decent bloke

I think the last word is the most important there.[emoji23]


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think the last word is the most important there.[emoji23]


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The tweet has a picture of them having a drink together. Hopefully bumped into each other and he doesn't like the nut job

[Stairway 2 7]

I don’t think you have to look much further than the Labour Party in 2015 to see how damaging it can be to let your opponents choose your leader. And the damage was done to the whole country, not just Labour.
I’d prefer the leader of the party to be chosen by the MSP’s but 2nd to that has to be party members.


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Party members are fine for picking but it simply has to go to the public once chosen. The winner could go in a completely different direction on policies if they wished

[Ozyhibby]

Party members are fine for picking but it simply has to go to the public once chosen. The winner could go in a completely different direction on policies if they wished

I agree 100% and really hope they call an election for later this year. Wait enough time for Ross and Sarwar to call for you to call the election and then do so. Takes away the attack that calling the election at this time is a distraction.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I agree 100% and really hope they call an election for later this year. Wait enough time for Ross and Sarwar to call for you to call the election and then do so. Takes away the attack that calling the election at this time is a distraction.


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It's certainly different to down south in that snp will end up with similar seats, but if Sunak called one he'd be out

[Stairway 2 7]

In this poll Kate forbes, John Swinney and Anas Sarwar come out on who would do a good job as FM

John Swinney, Humza Yousef and Douglas Ross out in front on who would do a bad job, Ross way out in front

Look out for Stuart Lewis

James Withers
@JamesRWithers
3% of the Scottish electorate believe Stuart Lewis would do a good job as First Minister. But twice as many believe he would do a bad job as FM.
Stuart Lewis is a fictional name in the survey.😂
#StuartLewis4FM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesRWithers/status/1626652144337096707

[Glory Lurker]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/7303fcc86d4d2799a6a5924b055e68dd.jpg



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Desperate anti-SNP "journalism".

[James310]

Mhairi Black saying any move to the right would end the SNP. The briefings against Kate Forbes have started.

[Skol]

Mhairi Black saying any move to the right would end the SNP. The briefings against Kate Forbes have started.

It looks like the murrells want humza at the helm. I cannot see that he would advance the cause in any way and he is a risk of causing huge damage.

[Smartie]

It looks like the murrells want humza at the helm. I cannot see that he would advance the cause in any way and he is a risk of causing huge damage.

Agreed.

[James310]

It looks like the murrells want humza at the helm. I cannot see that he would advance the cause in any way and he is a risk of causing huge damage.

Because they can control him behind the scenes?

[He's here!]

Mhairi Black saying any move to the right would end the SNP. The briefings against Kate Forbes have started.

Interesting to note that Forbes' faith prevents her from working on the Sabbath. I'd also imagine her opposition to same sex marriage and abortion might count against her, although her Oxbridge/worldly (think she was brought up in India?) background might garner her more respect than Sturgeon among Tory types at Westminster and enable her to foster a less abrasive relationship.

[WhileTheChief..]

I know nothing about Forbes, I’d never heard her name until this thread started.

There seems to be a lot of focus on her religion and how that might sit with voters.

My own view is that very few, as in so few for it matter, will give one iota what here religion is. Topics like gender recognition or abortion won’t be vote winners or losers at the next election. They’re great topics for the media but I doubt the general public care that much at all.

Schools, hospitals and cost of living. They’re the things that will decide where the votes go, far more than anything else.

[Ozyhibby]

Joanna Cherry can’t put down the Twitter this week telling everyone what the party needs. If it’s that important to her, why isn’t she standing?


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[Sergio sledge]

It looks like the murrells want humza at the helm. I cannot see that he would advance the cause in any way and he is a risk of causing huge damage.

I'm pretty sure Nicola Sturgeon views Kate Forbes as a future FM, wouldn't expect her to be in Humza's corner.

[Smartie]

Joanna Cherry can’t put down the Twitter this week telling everyone what the party needs. If it’s that important to her, why isn’t she standing?


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Self-awareness?

That she is clearly very intelligent and can be a huge asset who makes many excellent points sniping from the sidelines but who has zero chance of uniting the disparate parts of a divided party?

[weecounty hibby]

Joanna Cherry can’t put down the Twitter this week telling everyone what the party needs. If it’s that important to her, why isn’t she standing?


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Cherry would join Alba but she knows it's electoral suicide. She may be critical of the party but she 100% knows where her bread is butteres

[degenerated]

Joanna Cherry can’t put down the Twitter this week telling everyone what the party needs. If it’s that important to her, why isn’t she standing?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkShe is desperate to keep her snout in the westminster trough.

[Keith_M]

Lorraine Kelly
Ewan McGregor
Jack n Victor

They would win the votes needed to get independence


Has to be Lorraine Kelly.

[neil7908]

Because they can control him behind the scenes?

Why would Sturgeon give up power by resigning as FM if she wanted to retain power? Sounds a bit QAnon

[Since90+2]

Why would Sturgeon give up power by resigning as FM if she wanted to retain power? Sounds a bit QAnon

Because, in the minds of some folk, she's Emperor Palpatine.

[He's here!]

Why would Sturgeon give up power by resigning as FM if she wanted to retain power? Sounds a bit QAnon

Already posted this on another thread but the Common Weal director certainly reckons it's a stich-up:

https://robinmcalpine.org/stop-murrells-corruption-now/

[James310]

Why would Sturgeon give up power by resigning as FM if she wanted to retain power? Sounds a bit QAnon

You don't really know how politics works do you. Her husband stays on as CEO and their chat at the dinner table is about the weather and what's on TV tonight?

She left because she was becoming a liability, if she had left along with her husband then fair enough. As long as he remains CEO she will have significant influence.

[LewysGot2]

I'm pretty sure Nicola Sturgeon views Kate Forbes as a future FM, wouldn't expect her to be in Humza's corner.

The Robertson bid will surely be her continuity candidate. He's someone who is like marmite though - he lost his seat up north for a reason.

[neil7908]

You don't really know how politics works do you. Her husband stays on as CEO and their chat at the dinner table is about the weather and what's on TV tonight?

She left because she was becoming a liability, if she had left along with her husband then fair enough. As long as he remains CEO she will have significant influence.

Cracking first line, doesn't come across as pompous at all - you a secret MSP then? Cause you must have some serious experience to come out with a line like that.

Let me get this straight if I can. Sturgeon resigns from the most powerful role in Government so she can sit at the dinner table and plot things from behind the scenes? Do you honestly believe that?

Why do you think Murrell will have more power than the new leader? Do you think Greg Hands is telling Sunak what to do?

[James310]

Cracking first line, doesn't come across as pompous at all - you a secret MSP then? Cause you must have some serious experience to come out with a line like that.

Let me get this straight if I can. Sturgeon resigns from the most powerful role in Government so she can sit at the dinner table and plot things from behind the scenes? Do you honestly believe that?

Why do you think Murrell will have more power than the new leader? Do you think Greg Hands is telling Sunak what to do?

Peter Murrell has been CEO of the SNP since 1999, apologies for the opening line but if you think Sturgeon will be taking a back seat while her husband remains the CEO then I have some magic beans for you. Greg Hands is not married to Rishi Sunak so it's not a valid comparison to make.

You don't think politics is full of plotting and back room deals? As long as Peter Murrell is the CEO the shadow of Nicola Sturgeon will still be looming large and it's naive to suggest otherwise.

It would actually benefit the new leader to have a fresh start rather than having the husband of the ex FM and the person you have taken over from as being your new boss.

[Ozyhibby]

Cracking first line, doesn't come across as pompous at all - you a secret MSP then? Cause you must have some serious experience to come out with a line like that.

Let me get this straight if I can. Sturgeon resigns from the most powerful role in Government so she can sit at the dinner table and plot things from behind the scenes? Do you honestly believe that?

Why do you think Murrell will have more power than the new leader? Do you think Greg Hands is telling Sunak what to do?

Don’t you know that she is part of the illuminati?


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[James310]

Is it really so odd to suggest that while Nicola Sturgeons husband remains as CEO of the SNP she won't have some kind of influence on what's going on?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Mhairi Black saying any move to the right would end the SNP. The briefings against Kate Forbes have started.

She’s spot on


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[Andy Bee]

Don’t you know that she is part of the illuminati?


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She's sitting in her submersible octopus shaped control centre as we speak, just off the coast of Portobello, stroking her cat and pulling her hair out trying to find a Mini Mini Me, bloody freedom of movement curtailed that gig.

[He's here!]

Humza Yousef the first to declare.

[Stairway 2 7]

Humza Yousef the first to declare.

Jeez. Confident he won't get it, well hopefully

[Stairway 2 7]

Ash Regan declared too

[Ozyhibby]

Humza Yousef the first to declare.


Ash Regan declared too

Gets them the Sunday morning shows. Both will need it and I doubt they will be successful.


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[SteveHFC]

Gets them the Sunday morning shows. Both will need it and I doubt they will be successful.


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Agreed, won't be any of them.

[Colr]

Is Humza not supposed to be a bit of a canute?

[Stairway 2 7]

Is Humza not supposed to be a bit of a canute?

Incompetent in every role he's had, no chance he'll win though

[Stairway 2 7]

https://archive.ph/YrZZT

Kate Forbes, a frontrunner to succeed Nicola Sturgeon as SNP leader, is preparing to put a rescue plan for the Scottish economy and a focus on government doing less, better at the heart of her leadership bid.
The finance secretary, who is expected to launch her campaign in the coming days, intends to set out an agenda for economic growth to better support Scotland’s business community and, through a stronger tax base, tackle poverty and help to create a fairer society.

[heretoday]

Definitely need to hear a lot from the candidates and what makes them tick.
Sturgeon has left a bunch of empty vessels behind - she's been all over Scots politics for eight years so it's hardly surprising.

[James310]

https://twitter.com/AshtenRegan/status/1627238466470699008?t=XG4_mcpjLKUcXhiaNT8m-A&s=19

Great start from Ash Regan, let's have a never ending series of de facto referendums and then declare UDI if we get 50.1%.

(She deleted her first statement as it was riddled with spelling mistakes)

[Ozyhibby]

https://archive.ph/YrZZT

Kate Forbes, a frontrunner to succeed Nicola Sturgeon as SNP leader, is preparing to put a rescue plan for the Scottish economy and a focus on government doing less, better at the heart of her leadership bid.
The finance secretary, who is expected to launch her campaign in the coming days, intends to set out an agenda for economic growth to better support Scotland’s business community and, through a stronger tax base, tackle poverty and help to create a fairer society.

Still to hear from Robertson but that’s more in line with what I want to hear.


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[He's here!]

Still to hear from Robertson but that’s more in line with what I want to hear.


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Not convinced Robertson will stand.

[James310]

Still to hear from Robertson but that’s more in line with what I want to hear.


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Less government? That's a Tory policy through and through.

[Ozyhibby]

Not convinced Robertson will stand.

Be a shame if he doesn’t just because I think a wide field would be good for the party.


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[James310]

Neil Gray backs Humza.

https://twitter.com/neilgraysnp/status/1627250504253288449?t=_guKY4cEsur92eK_nj1BWQ&s=19

So does Anne McLaughlin.

https://twitter.com/AnneMcLaughlin/status/1627091871045681154?t=pSc0DoimQSHQ45SZL2i_uQ&s=19

[Berwickhibby]

Humza Yousef the first to declare.

:faf::faf::faf: the man is a first class idiot

[Paul1642]

:faf::faf::faf: the man is a first class idiot

Regardless or what party you support and your opinion on the union, the only thing I think everyone can agree on is that Humza Yousef is the worst possible candidate.

He had done a terrible job in every role he has held.

[heretoday]

Less government? That's a Tory policy through and through.

We're not all Rob Roys.

[LewysGot2]

Blackford on TV mentioned 4 possible leadership candidates he says are dignified and of the right calibre - Robertson, Forbes, Yousaf, Brown.

Looks like endorsing a continuity candidate

[Ozyhibby]

Keith Brown rules himself out.


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[Skol]

Keith Brown rules himself out.


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I hope that’s true as brown would be the worst option all round

[BroxburnHibee]

No gonna end up with Useless are we.....

[Ozyhibby]

I hope that’s true as brown would be the worst option all round

It’s confirmed on his own Twitter.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/02/ash-regan-says-she-will-address-the-democratic-deficit-on-independence/

Ash Regan doubles down on de-facto referendum. With all the talk about bringing back Alba members, I had already ruled her out for my vote and this confirms it.


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[Ozyhibby]

Mairi McAllan not running.


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[archie]

Mairi McAllan not running.


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Do you think she was just putting down a marker for a job?

[Ozyhibby]

Do you think she was just putting down a marker for a job?

Not sure? Has she endorsed anyone yet?


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[archie]

Not sure? Has she endorsed anyone yet?


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Dunno. Maybe she just didn't have the support?

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1627221397159174144

Having Cherry's hearty backing will probably count against Regan and Forbes.

[James310]

https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1627229832340770818?t=lS_hFQiZc5_0O0L7PaaWQw&s=19

Hearing it’s “unlikely” that Angus Robertson will throw his hat into the ring in the SNP leadership contest, although his supporters are still trying to persuade him to stand.

[Ozyhibby]

Dunno. Maybe she just didn't have the support?

She is still very young and possibly doesn’t feel ready yet?


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[marinello59]

She is desperate to keep her snout in the westminster trough.

Didn't she want to stand against Robertson for the chance to represent the seat at Holyrood he now holds? The allegation then was that she was effectively blocked by the party machine who did not want here in a position where she could challenge for the leadership. I have no idea if that is true or not. :greengrin

As an aside is the Westminster trough any different from the Holyrood trough when it comes to politicians feasting on public money?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230219/88362b1e1f687e3204681b42fb75933b.jpg
Ballot box Scotland running an endorsement tracker.

https://ballotbox.scot/scottish-parliament/snp-leadership-election-2023


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[SteveHFC]

https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1627229832340770818?t=lS_hFQiZc5_0O0L7PaaWQw&s=19

Hearing it’s “unlikely” that Angus Robertson will throw his hat into the ring in the SNP leadership contest, although his supporters are still trying to persuade him to stand.

Would rather have him than the 2 announced so far.

[One Day Soon]

From an SNP contact: The SNP added about 100,000 members post referendum though a lot have left again since then. In the old days the leadership could look out from the conference platform and know almost every face in the hall by name. Now they have absolutely no idea what all those extra members - who they rarely see at meetings or anywhere else - are thinking. This is the first leadership campaign in the devolution era where the outcome isn't essentially a foregone conclusion.

I wanted rid of Sturgeon but I almost want it to be Yousaf as much...

[degenerated]

Didn't she want to stand against Robertson for the chance to represent the seat at Holyrood he now holds? The allegation then was that she was effectively blocked by the party machine who did not want here in a position where she could challenge for the leadership. I have no idea if that is true or not. :greengrin

As an aside is the Westminster trough any different from the Holyrood trough when it comes to politicians feasting on public money?She did indeed, she wasn't so keen to give up her Westminster seat without a guarantee that she would be successful in being the candidate though.

So perhaps I should said she wanted to ensure her snout was in the trough, whichever country that trough happened to be.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/kennyfarq/status/1627356394323079169?s=46&t=pduprWkpdvWpJ6OmETpfJw


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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/kennyfarq/status/1627356394323079169?s=46&t=pduprWkpdvWpJ6OmETpfJw

Kenny Farquharson is a toad. Ian Blackford is a member of the same church - don't remember him calling for these questions to be put to him?

[Ozyhibby]

Kenny Farquharson is a toad. Ian Blackford is a member of the same church - don't remember him calling for these questions to be put to him?

He’s an elder in the same church. Also a bloke though.


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[Mibbes Aye]

From an SNP contact: The SNP added about 100,000 members post referendum though a lot have left again since then. In the old days the leadership could look out from the conference platform and know almost every face in the hall by name. Now they have absolutely no idea what all those extra members - who they rarely see at meetings or anywhere else - are thinking. This is the first leadership campaign in the devolution era where the outcome isn't essentially a foregone conclusion.

I wanted rid of Sturgeon but I almost want it to be Yousaf as much...

Arguably, if he was leader he would have less opportunity to inflict damage on health and care, due to all the other business of government.

A Yousaf ascendancy could be in the national interest.

[Mibbes Aye]

Serious question, as I don’t have a copy of the SNP constitution.

Are the leadership/deputy leadership tied? Does Brown have to submit himself for re-election because Sturgeon quit?

[Glory Lurker]

The religion bit is getting frantic push from ne'er-do-wells. I subscribe to what some pope (yes, I know he's on another team to Forbes) or other called a militant atheist. I'm fine with Forbes.

There's folk who would rightly run a mile from arguing against a Muslim or Jewish candidate because of their religion chucking themselves joyfully in to this fray. I'm sure the UK establishment appreciates their efforts.

[Ozyhibby]

Serious question, as I don’t have a copy of the SNP constitution.

Are the leadership/deputy leadership tied? Does Brown have to submit himself for re-election because Sturgeon quit?

I don’t think so. Which makes any double act unlikely. Unless Brown can be persuaded to stand aside.


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[Pretty Boy]

The religion bit is getting frantic push from ne'er-do-wells. I subscribe to what some pope (yes, I know he's on another team to Forbes) or other called a militant atheist. I'm fine with Forbes.

There's folk who would rightly run a mile from arguing against a Muslim or Jewish candidate because of their religion chucking themselves joyfully in to this fray. I'm sure the UK establishment appreciates their efforts.

Benedict XVI.

'Aggresive secularism', 'militant atheism' and 'atheist extremism' were the phrases used.

The speech in question was delivered in Edinburgh incidentally. I'm passing zero comment on the content.

[James310]

The religion bit is getting frantic push from ne'er-do-wells. I subscribe to what some pope (yes, I know he's on another team to Forbes) or other called a militant atheist. I'm fine with Forbes.

There's folk who would rightly run a mile from arguing against a Muslim or Jewish candidate because of their religion chucking themselves joyfully in to this fray. I'm sure the UK establishment appreciates their efforts.

These are people within the SNP as well, why would they be assisting the UK establishment?

This guy for example is now a SNP councillor but was previously a SNP Minister.

https://twitter.com/MarcoGBiagi/status/1626974173196169216?t=TXFRwSzt8pB1yVM8joJIpw&s=19

[Glory Lurker]

These are people within the SNP as well, why would they be assisting the UK establishment?

This guy for example is now a SNP councillor but was previously a SNP Minister.

https://twitter.com/MarcoGBiagi/status/1626974173196169216?t=TXFRwSzt8pB1yVM8joJIpw&s=19

I never said assisting.

[James310]

I never said assisting.

Well appreciating their efforts.

It's probably something new for many SNP supporters, to see their politicians actually be asked to have a view on a variety of things and then find out they actually disagree on many things. Independence had obviously been the one thing they agree on and the differences have always been kept below the surface but no more. I hope they debate head to head and we the public get to see it, but I suspect there will be a nervousness about a yellow on yellow public debate.

[Glory Lurker]

Well appreciating their efforts.

It's probably something new for many SNP supporters, to see their politicians actually be asked to have a view on a variety of things and then find out they actually disagree on many things. Independence had obviously been the one thing they agree on and the differences have always been kept below the surface but no more. I hope they debate head to head and we the public get to see it, but I suspect there will be a nervousness about a yellow on yellow public debate.

Is religion fair game?

[James310]

Is religion fair game?

Not particularly for me personally, but I can understand for some people why it might. If I was a gay man and fought hard for equal marriage it would concern me that the new FM has refused to say she supports it. She also gave a pro life speech so again if I was a pro woman's choice that may concern me. But I don't think it's anything to do with the British Establishment, it's time for these people to stand up and tell us where they stand on a whole range of issues, something they have never been asked before.

[Skol]

As someone who doesn’t favour independence it’s an odd position. On the one hand it would be great to see Yousaf installed as leader and first minister, but on the other hand whoever is in charge has three years til the next election so you need someone competent. I am favouring Forbes on that basis right now assuming she stands.

[Stairway 2 7]

London has a Hindu PM a Muslim mayor and Buddhist home secretary. I know Scotland is less multicultural but surely we don't care what faith someone is. She's not daft she knows what her parties views are. I don't think any politician whether it be Yousef, Forbes or Sarwar would govern to scripture

[Kato]

Not particularly for me personally, but I can understand for some people why it might. If I was a gay man and fought hard for equal marriage it would concern me that the new FM has refused to say she supports it. She also gave a pro life speech so again if I was a pro woman's choice that may concern me. But I don't think it's anything to do with the British Establishment, it's time for these people to stand up and tell us where they stand on a whole range of issues, something they have never been asked before.

Like the politicians who want to leave the ECHR?

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[James310]

Like the politicians who want to leave the ECHR?

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What religion is that then?

[Glory Lurker]

Not particularly for me personally, but I can understand for some people why it might. If I was a gay man and fought hard for equal marriage it would concern me that the new FM has refused to say she supports it. She also gave a pro life speech so again if I was a pro woman's choice that may concern me. But I don't think it's anything to do with the British Establishment, it's time for these people to stand up and tell us where they stand on a whole range of issues, something they have never been asked before.

Okay.

Again though, I'm not saying it's the UK establishment that's leading the argument. What I do detect though is that she scares the unionists. She's got a business narrative that will feed straight into the soft no's. I've no doubt that active social media types on the unionist side will be quick to flag up religious objections within the yes side in the hope it fans the division. Us good guys need to be smarter than to offer the charcoal ;-)

[archie]

Okay.

Again though, I'm not saying it's the UK establishment that's leading the argument. What I do detect though is that she scares the unionists. She's got a business narrative that will feed straight into the soft no's. I've no doubt that active social media types on the unionist side will be quick to flag up religious objections within the yes side in the hope it fans the division. Us good guys need to be smarter than to offer the charcoal ;-)

I think a lot of the briefing is coming from members of her own party. A pro-business ethos might appear to soft no's. TBH I think it's the hard yes's she needs to worry about.

[Kato]

What religion is that then?
Does it have to be a religious issue for people to be questioned on "a whole range of issues"?

You were expressing concern for people in gay marriages and those who may require abortion. So the question is in the spirit of that concern, theological or not.

If we leave the ECHR people would lose far more rights than the above.

Those who want to leave it are claiming its to do with people claiming refuge in our country yet the ECHR is way more than that and covers the most basic rights a human can expect.

I would have thought if you were concerned about rights you would have posted on this long before now.

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[James310]

Okay.

Again though, I'm not saying it's the UK establishment that's leading the argument. What I do detect though is that she scares the unionists. She's got a business narrative that will feed straight into the soft no's. I've no doubt that active social media types on the unionist side will be quick to flag up religious objections within the yes side in the hope it fans the division. Us good guys need to be smarter than to offer the charcoal ;-)

Other than seeing her deliver a few budgets I am struggling to see what else she has done of note. What's been her biggest achievements to date? (That's not particularly aimed at you)

[James310]

Does it have to be a religious issue for people to be questioned on "a whole range of issues"?

You were expressing concern for people in gay marriages and those who may require abortion. So the question is in the spirit of that concern, theological or not.

If we leave the ECHR people would lose far more rights than the above.

Those who want to leave it are claiming its to do with people claiming refuge in our country yet the ECHR is way more than that and covers the most basic rights a human can expect.

I would have thought if you were concerned about rights you would have posted on this long before now.

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I wasn't expressing concern, I was saying I could understand why they may have concerns. Start a thread on the ECHR and you can get your points across on there. I don't think it's policy so it's just speculation and probably scaremongering from the hostile left wing biased media...or something like that.

I just think it's interesting to actually see SNP politicians being questioned on a whole range of issues we probably would never get to hear before.

[Glory Lurker]

Other than seeing her deliver a few budgets I am struggling to see what else she has done of note. What's been her biggest achievements to date? (That's not particularly aimed at you)

Are public arena achievements relevant when apparently we need to start afresh? In fact, given how useless NS and her team were supposed to have been, is it not a benefit to not have a significant policy impact so far?

You're supportive of Starmer. What were his political achievements?

[James310]

Are public arena achievements relevant when apparently we need to start afresh? In fact, given how useless NS and her team were supposed to have been, is it not a benefit to not have a significant policy impact so far?

You're supportive of Starmer. What were his political achievements?

He has turned a Labour party around to being unelectable to looking like winning one of the biggest majorities ever? Is that good enough.

Anyway this is about the runners and riders for the SNP. So I am guessing you can't name any, neither could I.

[Ozyhibby]

Are public arena achievements relevant when apparently we need to start afresh? In fact, given how useless NS and her team were supposed to have been, is it not a benefit to not have a significant policy impact so far?

You're supportive of Starmer. What were his political achievements?

He’s helping get Brexit done?


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[James310]

He’s helping get Brexit done?


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That poll you quoted earlier showed only 8% of Scots felt Brexit was in the top 3 issues facing Scotland. Labour are up significantly in the polls in Scotland so whatever he is doing it's working.

But this is about the next SNP leader.

[Glory Lurker]

He has turned a Labour party around to being unelectable to looking like winning one of the biggest majorities ever? Is that good enough.

Anyway this is about the runners and riders for the SNP. So I am guessing you can't name any, neither could I.

Hang on. You asked (in fairness not me specifically) what her achievements are that support her being elected leader. What you've highlighted for Starmer is what he's done *after* becoming leader.

Like Starmer, and really any "fresh start" leader, Forbes should be able to differentiate herself from what went before.

And, anyway, she's not even declared yet so you might never need to worry yourself ;-)

[He's here!]

Serious question, as I don’t have a copy of the SNP constitution.

Are the leadership/deputy leadership tied? Does Brown have to submit himself for re-election because Sturgeon quit?

Another question. Are the candidates doing televised debates? I know it's only SNP members who can vote but pretty sure the PM candidates did them when Truss got in and Labour when Corbyn got in (can't actually remember if Starmer had anyone standing against him).

[Crunchie]

That poll you quoted earlier showed only 8% of Scots felt Brexit was in the top 3 issues facing Scotland. Labour are up significantly in the polls in Scotland so whatever he is doing it's working.

But this is about the next SNP leader.
There's no one of note to talk about obviously :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Hang on. You asked (in fairness not me specifically) what her achievements are that support her being elected leader. What you've highlighted for Starmer is what he's done *after* becoming leader.

Like Starmer, and really any "fresh start" leader, Forbes should be able to differentiate herself from what went before.

And, anyway, she's not even declared yet so you might never need to worry yourself ;-)

I’m not certain she will either. Very young family. If it was me, I wouldn’t.


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[He's here!]

I think a lot of the briefing is coming from members of her own party. A pro-business ethos might appear to soft no's. TBH I think it's the hard yes's she needs to worry about.

No question. The 'progressive' clique at the top of the tree will be uniting behind Yousef.

[He's here!]

I’m not certain she will either. Very young family. If it was me, I wouldn’t.


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It's something folk seem to be underestimating. She's not even finished her maternity leave. Not sure what her husband does but it's a big decision for new parents to leave their baby with a minder for what wouldn't be short working days in her case.

[Stairway 2 7]

About every right wing media organisation is going big with Forbes won't get it because her religion and it will cause splits in the snp due to her. It makes me feel I'm being stitched up and a large amount of snp voters won't be bothered.

[Glory Lurker]

About every right wing media organisation is going big with Forbes won't get it because her religion and it will cause splits in the snp due to her. It makes me feel I'm being stitched up and a large amount of snp voters won't be bothered.

No way. As if.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

No question. The 'progressive' clique at the top of the tree will be uniting behind Yousef.

I’ll humour you, why?


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[Ozyhibby]

Robertson not standing. His endorsement will be important.


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[James310]

The story's about Angus Robertson may be true after all then, he would surely win if he stood.

Humza is going to get it isn't he.

[Ozyhibby]

I suspect that Forbes will have spent weekend getting her backers all sorted so that she can announce with a strong support right from the off.
I imagine she will very quickly give an interview to explain what effect her religion will have on how she leads the govt.


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[J-C]

He has turned a Labour party around to being unelectable to looking like winning one of the biggest majorities ever? Is that good enough.

Anyway this is about the runners and riders for the SNP. So I am guessing you can't name any, neither could I.

I think you'll find an atrocious Tory government has aided this process and not the "genius" of Starmer. The Labour Party just happens to be the only alternative in England, it's amazed me it taken them this long to overtake them in the polls.

[He's here!]

The story's about Angus Robertson may be true after all then, he would surely win if he stood.

Humza is going to get it isn't he.

He must be the favourite.

Yes, there appear to be reasons other than those he cites for Robertson not standing.

[The Harp Awakes]

The story's about Angus Robertson may be true after all then, he would surely win if he stood.

Humza is going to get it isn't he.

I'll need a re-think then.

Can't see Humza having a chance. Kate Forbes must be odds on now. Ash Regan seems a bit of a wild card. I like her idea of aligning the independence movement. Easier said than done though.

[CropleyWasGod]

The story's about Angus Robertson may be true after all then, he would surely win if he stood.

Humza is going to get it isn't he.


He must be the favourite.

Yes, there appear to be reasons other than those he cites for Robertson not standing.

What are these stories and other reasons?

[James310]

I'll need a re-think then.

Can't see Humza having a chance. Kate Forbes must be odds on now. Ash Regan seems a bit of a wild card. I like her idea of aligning the independence movement. Easier said than done though.

I think Humza would be the SNPs Liz Truss, I think Kate Forbes would be competent at her job and would appeal to the public more but it's a definite move to the right with her and she is already getting abused by the SNP youth wing. Ash Regan is the Alba candidate so make of that what you will. Her policy of having never ending de facto referendums is mental.

Humza will get the important nominations I reckon so it's a straight shoot out between him and Forbes.

[James310]

What are these stories and other reasons?

If you know, you know. That's really all I can say.

He has significant baggage as well, the botched census, his knowing about Salmonds behavior and sitting on it etc.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you know, you know. That's really all I can say.

He has significant baggage as well, the botched census, his knowing about Salmonds behavior and sitting on it etc.

Why?

[One Day Soon]

Why?

Because contempt of court for one thing.

[James310]

Why?

Just because.

[archie]

What are these stories and other reasons?
There's a lot of Internet chatter. I'd strongly advise we don't get into it here.

[ElginHibbie]

All getting a bit too like the Scottish version of QAnon in here

[Ozyhibby]

I'll need a re-think then.

Can't see Humza having a chance. Kate Forbes must be odds on now. Ash Regan seems a bit of a wild card. I like her idea of aligning the independence movement. Easier said than done though.

Forbes is the centrist candidate.[emoji3][emoji106]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/finance-secretary-kate-forbes-announces-bid-to-replace-nicola-sturgeon-as-first-minister

Forbes announces.[emoji106]


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[archie]

Forbes is the centrist candidate.[emoji3][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkReally? Are you saying Humza is to the right of her?

[Ozyhibby]

Really? Are you saying Humza is to the right of her?

Apologies, I was thinking about the GRR too much. [emoji23]


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[James310]

The replies to her tweet with her video are interesting. Range from good luck and I hope you win to I will never vote SNP again if you win.

It's going to be wild.

[Mon Dieu4]

The replies to her tweet with her video are interesting. Range from good luck and I hope you win to I will never vote SNP again if you win.

It's going to be wild.

So basically the internet in a nutshell then? You could put a picture of a kitten online and some folk would reply that they hate cats

[One Day Soon]

So basically the internet in a nutshell then? You could put a picture of a kitten online and some folk would reply that they hate cats


In political Scotland now even people who love cats would find a reason to hate your particular cat.

[archie]

So basically the internet in a nutshell then? You could put a picture of a kitten online and some folk would reply that they hate cats

I think there is a pretty concerted activist campaign against her.

[CropleyWasGod]

In political Scotland now even people who love cats would find a reason to hate your particular cat.


Does a neutered cat have a gender? :cb

[Ozyhibby]

Forbes will be happy will the replies to her announcement videos. Massive amount of support.


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[Mon Dieu4]

In political Scotland now even people who love cats would find a reason to hate your particular cat.

Haha pretty spot on there

[archie]

Does a neutered cat have a gender? :cb

Well it has a sex!

[Santa Cruz]

Think Humza will be the winning candidate. The press are making a big deal out of KF's religious beliefs, which is unfair imo. The MSP who's name I've forgot but used to be NS's SPAD will be the next Health Sec. I'd keep KF as Finance Sec she reportedly said before going on maternity leave the Greens were to have no input in any economic decisions while she was absent from post, she's no daft. :wink::greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

I think there is a pretty concerted activist campaign against her.

That's it all in a nutshell though, there are people that will be convinced that the handmaid's tale will be a documentary on Scotland if she gets it, all nonsense, she's seemed pretty sensible and more than capable any time I've heard her speak

[CropleyWasGod]

Well it has a sex!

When I was a lad, before the world changed, there were 4 genders... of which neuter was one.

Curiously, a neutered cat would arguably be of the common gender.

However, that's an old pedant (common gender, until proved otherwise) howling at the (common) moon.

[Zambernardi1875]

So basically the internet in a nutshell then? You could put a picture of a kitten online and some folk would reply that they hate cats

How dare you just presume that the cat identifies as a cat.

[Paul1642]

It’s now looking like coming down to Yousef or Forbes.

Whilst I am generally not a SNP voter I have no strong political alignment and just want want best for the country both short and long term.

For me that means Forbes by a mile. Yousef is horribly incompetent and the thought of him being FM gives me the absolute fear for our country. He gets most of his bad press from doing a bad job as Health secretary but don’t forget that he is still strongly disliked by most in the justice sector for the mess he made there.

[archie]

How dare you just presume that the cat identifies as a cat.

Even worse, when a dog sees the cat it will treat it as...a cat!

[SHODAN]

Yousaf, Forbes, or R***n. Uninspiring at best, dangerous at worst. Really concerned about the future of my country now.

[archie]

Yousaf, Forbes, or R***n. Uninspiring at best, dangerous at worst. Really concerned about the future of my country now.

Care to expand?

[Mon Dieu4]

Yousaf, Forbes, or R***n. Uninspiring at best, dangerous at worst. Really concerned about the future of my country now.

the SNP have romped election after election with being an alternative to both Labour and the Tories, none of these candidates are going to stray too far away from how things are currently being done as it would be political suicide to do so

[Smartie]

It's a bit mad that a party who enjoy such firm backing from the electorate has such a dearth of strong candidates to lead the party.

You'd think that they would sit on top of a fairly robust pyramid but that really doesn't seem to be the case. Everyone mentioned so far is either flawed or hopeless imo.

[Ozyhibby]

It's a bit mad that a party who enjoy such firm backing from the electorate has such a dearth of strong candidates to lead the party.

You'd think that they would sit on top of a fairly robust pyramid but that really doesn't seem to be the case. Everyone mentioned so far is either flawed or hopeless imo.

Isn’t that the same for all parties?


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[Smartie]

Isn’t that the same for all parties?


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I guess so.

And maybe it's a new phenomenon. Thinking back to maybe the early to mid nineties, think how many competent Labour politicians there would have been and they weren't even in government. There would have been plenty of people potentially up to the task of being either FM or PM in future within their ranks.

It just seems a bit weird to me.

[He's here!]

It’s now looking like coming down to Yousef or Forbes.

Whilst I am generally not a SNP voter I have no strong political alignment and just want want best for the country both short and long term.

For me that means Forbes by a mile. Yousef is horribly incompetent and the thought of him being FM gives me the absolute fear for our country. He gets most of his bad press from doing a bad job as Health secretary but don’t forget that he is still strongly disliked by most in the justice sector for the mess he made there.

He's the only one with a genuine breadth of ministerial roles though. Overall a pretty raw bunch. Quite surprised nobody with more experience is standing,

[Hibrandenburg]

London has a Hindu PM a Muslim mayor and Buddhist home secretary. I know Scotland is less multicultural but surely we don't care what faith someone is. She's not daft she knows what her parties views are. I don't think any politician whether it be Yousef, Forbes or Sarwar would govern to scripture

I don't think what faith they are is the issue, I think many people are wary of politicians of ANY faith. I admit that I don't like the idea of someone's beliefs influencing their decision making. As an atheist it's difficult for me to accept that decisions made on religious grounds are equal to those based on science, regardless if that religion is Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Jedi Warriors.

[Hibrandenburg]

All getting a bit too like the Scottish version of QAnon in here

Is it Scottish though? :hmmm:

[Stairway 2 7]

If it Yousef, Forbes and Reagen then I think Reagan and Forbes will split each others vote. Would be gutted if Yousef gets it as I would be sure of no chance for independence or even a swing in the polls until he's replaced

[SteveHFC]

If it Yousef, Forbes and Reagen then I think Reagan and Forbes will split each others vote. Would be gutted if Yousef gets it as I would be sure of no chance for independence or even a swing in the polls until he's replaced

Forbes
Regan
Yousef

In that order for me.

[Stairway 2 7]

Forbes
Regan
Yousef

In that order for me.

Poor options, I think there is better in Westminster. I like Reagan wants to start a conversation over a wider group pushing independence, its the Labour voters needing won and I'm sure many can be with a coalition

[Ozyhibby]

If it Yousef, Forbes and Reagen then I think Reagan and Forbes will split each others vote. Would be gutted if Yousef gets it as I would be sure of no chance for independence or even a swing in the polls until he's replaced

I don’t think Regan will make it all the way through the campaign. She just doesn’t have the support.


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[Smartie]

Poor options, I think there is better in Westminster. I like Reagan wants to start a conversation over a wider group pushing independence, its the Labour voters needing won and I'm sure many can be with a coalition

I often find the animosity at times towards Labour bewildering.

Ok, I get that "rather be governed by Tories at Westminster than a left wing government from Holyrood" is a slightly mad outlook but I often see part of the Labour Party as being the most likely to be tempted away, even if emotions have run high and entrenched positions adopted post 2014.

Salmond, for all his faults, was probably cuter when it came to how to talk with those of a different persuasion.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bookmakers have got Forbes 10/11 Yousef 6/4 Reagan 8/1.

I think public vote would heavily go Forbes, but that matters nowt as members will chose Yousef I reckon

[Stairway 2 7]

I often find the animosity at times towards Labour bewildering.

Ok, I get that "rather be governed by Tories at Westminster than a left wing government from Holyrood" is a slightly mad outlook but I often see part of the Labour Party as being the most likely to be tempted away, even if emotions have run high and entrenched positions adopted post 2014.

Salmond, for all his faults, was probably cuter when it came to how to talk with those of a different persuasion.

I agree. Independence will be won or lost on Labour voters I think and they won't be won by being demonised or talked down to

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I agree. Independence will be won or lost on Labour voters I think and they won't be won by being demonised or talked down to

As long as they vote Labour, it will never be won.

[One Day Soon]

Poor options, I think there is better in Westminster. I like Reagan wants to start a conversation over a wider group pushing independence, its the Labour voters needing won and I'm sure many can be with a coalition

Which coalition?

[Ozyhibby]

Yousef and Forbes coming out against de-facto referendum, Regan very much in favour and want UDI after even a Holyrood success.


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[SHODAN]

Pretty simple for me.

Will continue to vote SNP: Yousaf, despite my misgivings.
Will vote Green (or Labour if they stand a left winger in my constituency): Forbes, Regan. I'm pro-independence but there's no point if we have a reactionary leading the country.

If my MP or MSP endorses Regan (which looks likely re the former, as he liked the Sturgeon conga video on Twitter for some reason), I won't vote for them regardless of who wins.

Hopefully Yousaf will get in and keep things ticking over until Mhairi Black decides to head up here.

[Stairway 2 7]

Which coalition?

Reagans statement. She wants a convention for independence with a broad group of independence supporters. There's thousands of Labour voters that voted for independence, it would be good for there to be an official group and would also split Labour vote

[Ozyhibby]

Reagans statement. She wants a convention for independence with a broad group of independence supporters. There's thousands of Labour voters that voted for independence, it would be good for there to be an official group and would also split Labour vote

Surely that’s up to Labour Party members to organise themselves. They haven’t done anything so far so unlikely ever to happen.


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[Stairway 2 7]

As long as they vote Labour, it will never be won.

Not true. A decent proportion of them voted for independence. Some people will simply always vote Labour but more could be won over to independence

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely that’s up to Labour Party members to organise themselves. They haven’t done anything so far so unlikely ever to happen.


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You could wait on that and watch nothing happen or try something yourself. We could do the same as we have done the last 5 years for the next 5 years and it'll still be 50/50

[Hiber-nation]

As expected pretty dismal times if you're an SNP supporter.

I hope it's Forbes although the religion thing will always be an issue for me.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Not true. A decent proportion of them voted for independence. Some people will simply always vote Labour but more could be won over to independence

Labour will always use those votes as an argument never to allow another independence referendum to take place.

[One Day Soon]

Reagans statement. She wants a convention for independence with a broad group of independence supporters. There's thousands of Labour voters that voted for independence, it would be good for there to be an official group and would also split Labour vote

That sounds quite a lot like all the people who already agree with one another over independence carrying on talking to each other about independence. Not sure that's a lot different to the status quo. We are locked into our blocks now, barring that small group that moves backward and forward between Yes and No, and have been for ages.

You're not winning over many more to Yes and we're not winning over many more to No. I don't think there's a short cut here. Either everyone downs tools and agrees to stick with where we are at or one side or the other finds a way to address the concerns of a chunk of the others voting group.

My best guess would be that No needs to realign the UK and the way it functions over the next decade in such a way that Yessers start to soften and Yes needs to close Scotland's structural deficit over the next decade in such a way that Noes worry less about the economic calamity. Either way, strap yourself in for a long haul which may yet end up back where we are now.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230220/ca76da2a245bccfd5ad15b0c8e5aff1b.jpg

Forbes jumps over Regan up to 9 endorsements. Yousef on 12.


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[Mon Dieu4]

Genuinely don't see what people see in Yousaf, I'm a SNP supporter and think he's pretty useless to be honest, can talk a good game but that's about it

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Genuinely don't see what people see in Yousaf, I'm a SNP supporter and think he's pretty useless to be honest, can talk a good game but that's about it

He's taken an endless amount of flack from his time as Health Secretary. But I struggle to see what choices he personally could have taken differently that would have been less damaging to the sector.

[Santa Cruz]

Reagans statement. She wants a convention for independence with a broad group of independence supporters. There's thousands of Labour voters that voted for independence, it would be good for there to be an official group and would also split Labour vote

Sounds like the same plan Salmond proposed. He won't split any vote imo. I'm wondering how closely linked they are and if he's advising her in the background.

[Hiber-nation]

Genuinely don't see what people see in Yousaf, I'm a SNP supporter and think he's pretty useless to be honest, can talk a good game but that's about it

He's never a party leader in a million years and it would go down like a lead balloon with voters.

[One Day Soon]

He's never a party leader in a million years and it would go down like a lead balloon with voters.

This is actually quite a big test for the SNP membership. There's no good answer to the question in many respects but Yousaf or Regan would, from an opponents point of view, be hilarious.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

This is actually quite a big test for the SNP membership. There's no good answer to the question in many respects but Yousaf or Regan would, from an opponents point of view, be hilarious.

As would Forbes.

Would much rather have Blackford over any of those 3.

[Smartie]

Salmond had 2 stints, did he not?

Is there maybe an element of bluff calling by Sturgeon? She takes some time out, re-energises. We get one of a few vastly inferior alternatives to Sturgeon. Labour get in at WM, we’re still not in Europe and lives for Scots fail to get better in any measurable way.

Sturgeon returns, points out that it’s not that easy but she’s been the best we’ve had for a while and picks back up with a new impetus that wouldn’t have been possible from where we are now?

[Ozyhibby]

Salmond had 2 stints, did he not?

Is there maybe an element of bluff calling by Sturgeon? She takes some time out, re-energises. We get one of a few vastly inferior alternatives to Sturgeon. Labour get in at WM, we’re still not in Europe and lives for Scots fail to get better in any measurable way.

Sturgeon returns, points out that it’s not that easy but she’s been the best we’ve had for a while and picks back up with a new impetus that wouldn’t have been possible from where we are now?

No.


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[Ozyhibby]

As would Forbes.

Would much rather have Blackford over any of those 3.

Have you seen Forbes fail yet?


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[Smartie]

No.


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Did Swinney not have a brief spell between 2 stints from Salmond?

[One Day Soon]

Salmond had 2 stints, did he not?

Is there maybe an element of bluff calling by Sturgeon? She takes some time out, re-energises. We get one of a few vastly inferior alternatives to Sturgeon. Labour get in at WM, we’re still not in Europe and lives for Scots fail to get better in any measurable way.

Sturgeon returns, points out that it’s not that easy but she’s been the best we’ve had for a while and picks back up with a new impetus that wouldn’t have been possible from where we are now?


That is highly improbable, for a number of reasons.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Have you seen Forbes fail yet?


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She's been successful at remaining out of the British Media limelight. She won't have that luxury as party leader.

[Smartie]

That is highly improbable, for a number of reasons.

Sure, but I do think it’s less improbable than Humza Yousaf leading Scotland to independence.

[Ozyhibby]

She's been successful at remaining out of the British Media limelight. She won't have that luxury as party leader.

So, that’s a no then?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/ashtenregan/status/1627653377046839301?s=46&t=3YKvba4B-kKCDrw9YR5HNw


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[SHODAN]

Genuinely don't see what people see in Yousaf, I'm a SNP supporter and think he's pretty useless to be honest, can talk a good game but that's about it

He's the least bad.

That's it.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

So, that’s a no then?


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It isn't a no. Failure and success are often subjective and spun for political reasons. The mainstream media focus has been predominantly on Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Yousaf. Doesn't mean either of them have been more or less of a failure than Kate Forbes. The moment she becomes SNP leader (assuming she does), she'll be a massive failure in the eyes of the British Media Press as will be the narrative regardless of who takes up the position.

[Mon Dieu4]

He's the least bad.

That's it.

I get it, less competent but less evil is better than disagreeing with someone on munitia and them being able to carry out a role better in the eyes of most

[Ozyhibby]

It isn't a no. Failure and success are often subjective and spun for political reasons. The mainstream media focus has been predominantly on Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Yousaf. Doesn't mean either of them have been more or less of a failure than Kate Forbes. The moment she becomes SNP leader (assuming she does), she'll be a massive failure in the eyes of the British Media Press as will be the narrative regardless of who takes up the position.

I don’t consider Yousaf a failure at all. He managed to run the best health service in the UK. We have not had any nurses strike in Scotland. Those are impressive achievements. I’m happy to give him a fair hearing especially now he has said he’ll drop de-facto referendum chat.
Forbes still got a bit to do to convince me but I would like a bit more focus on economics and business for Scotland and she offers that.
Both decent candidates.


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[Smartie]

I don’t consider Yousaf a failure at all. He managed to run the best health service in the UK. We have not had any nurses strike in Scotland. Those are impressive achievements. I’m happy to give him a fair hearing especially now he has said he’ll drop de-facto referendum chat.
Forbes still got a bit to do to convince me but I would like a bit more focus on economics and business for Scotland and she offers that.
Both decent candidates.


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It's weird because I have absolutely no idea what success as a health minister in Scotland would even look like. It's an impossible job that is only ever going to succeed in making you look foolish.

Which unfortunately I think he often does.

I work in healthcare and he's not highly thought of, although people in my line of work aren't normally interested in health beyond being paid much more to do much less and he's one of the guys who can't very easily make that happen.

[Stairway 2 7]

As transport minister Yousef was fined for driving without insurance

As justice minister he pushed through giving unhackable mobile phones to prisoners. They were hacked 2000 times a year one year and helped keep drug dealers working.

As health minister he got a warning from the statistics watchdog. He said people shouldn't travel to different areas to use children's entertainment as the new variant had caused 10 children to be hospitalised due to covid. It turned out to be complete nonsense and he just didn't understand the figures.

Most problematic is when people are asked him and Swinney come out by far in front of the rest in both who people don't want and say will do the worst job. Your replacing someone who many didn't like who most think was competent for someone who many don't like but think is incompetent.

If independence is your main objective I can't see how Yousef is your choice. For many independence is secondary to policies they like, hence some saying they would jump to labour or greens going it alone. Both are legitimate.

Some saying Sturgeon coming back is more appealing by the day

[Smartie]

As transport minister Yousef was fined for driving without insurance

As justice minister he pushed through giving unhackable mobile phones to prisoners. They were hacked 2000 times a year one year and helped keep drug dealers working.

As health minister he got a warning from the statistics watchdog. He said people shouldn't travel to different areas to use children's entertainment as the new variant had caused 10 children to be hospitalised due to covid. It turned out to be complete nonsense and he just didn't understand the figures.

Most problematic is when people are asked him and Swinney come out by far in front of the rest in both who people don't want and say will do the worst job. Your replacing someone who many didn't like who most think was competent for someone who many don't like but think is incompetent.

If independence is your main objective I can't see how Yousef is your choice. For many independence is secondary to policies they like, hence some saying they would jump to labour or greens going it alone. Both are legitimate.

Some saying Sturgeon coming back is more appealing by the day

I actually think his biggest problem was that he had a "Miliband eating a bacon sandwich" moment when he fell off his scooter.

He looked like a twat and unfortunately these are the times we live in.

[James310]

"Kate Forbes was asked in her BBC interview if someone should simply be able to declare they are a woman if they were born a biological male.

She replies: "I don't think self-identification is sufficient."

The UK government blocked the Scottish government's gender recognition reform bill from becoming law on grounds it would interfere with the operation of equalities law south of the border.

Forbes says as first minister she would engage with Westminster about the amendments that need to be made to make the bill "compatible" UK equalities legislation."

All the people who said it was compatible with UK legislation looking a bit foolish now. And it puts to bed that the opponents were only against it because of some anti SNP narrative, unless the potential new SNP leader is anti SNP.

[Stairway 2 7]

"Kate Forbes was asked in her BBC interview if someone should simply be able to declare they are a woman if they were born a biological male.

She replies: "I don't think self-identification is sufficient."

The UK government blocked the Scottish government's gender recognition reform bill from becoming law on grounds it would interfere with the operation of equalities law south of the border.

Forbes says as first minister she would engage with Westminster about the amendments that need to be made to make the bill "compatible" UK equalities legislation."

All the people who said it was compatible with UK legislation looking a bit foolish now. And it puts to bed that the opponents were only against it because of some anti SNP narrative, unless the potential new SNP leader is anti SNP.

If she can tweek it and get it through the SNP should be delighted. Humza on the news today was having a nightmare talking about Bryson, it will continue if he's leader and he's not as polished as NS

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I actually think his biggest problem was that he had a "Miliband eating a bacon sandwich" moment when he fell off his scooter.

He looked like a twat and unfortunately these are the times we live in.

Indeed. However, Boris Johnson has looked like a twat every day of his life and still managed to be Mayor of London and Prime Minister.

[Stairway 2 7]

Indeed. However, Boris Johnson has looked like a twat every day of his life and still managed to be Mayor of London and Prime Minister.

That was a part of his plan, he had a stylist that did his hair to look like an erse. It was he's a great laugh so don't look at his messing up

[James310]

Ms Forbes, a member of the Free Church of Scotland, was asked whether a man should be able to marry another man.

She says: "Equal marriage is a legal right and therefore I would defend that legal commitment.

"Incidentally though I would hope that others can defend the rights of other minorities, including religious minorities that might take a different view."

She said there was a distinction to be made between personal morality and practice - and a person's political responsibilities as a lawmaker.

Quote Message: In terms of the morality of the issue I am a practising Christian and I practice the teachings of most mainstream religions - whether that is Islam, Judaism or Christianity - that marriage is between a man and a woman. But that's what I practice. As a servant of democracy in a country where there is law I would defend to the hilt your right and anybody else's right to live and to love without harassment or fear."

[Stairway 2 7]

Ms Forbes, a member of the Free Church of Scotland, was asked whether a man should be able to marry another man.

She says: "Equal marriage is a legal right and therefore I would defend that legal commitment.

"Incidentally though I would hope that others can defend the rights of other minorities, including religious minorities that might take a different view."

She said there was a distinction to be made between personal morality and practice - and a person's political responsibilities as a lawmaker.

Quote Message: In terms of the morality of the issue I am a practising Christian and I practice the teachings of most mainstream religions - whether that is Islam, Judaism or Christianity - that marriage is between a man and a woman. But that's what I practice. As a servant of democracy in a country where there is law I would defend to the hilt your right and anybody else's right to live and to love without harassment or fear."

Seems fair enough

[He's here!]

She's been successful at remaining out of the British Media limelight. She won't have that luxury as party leader.

Ducked out of the GRA vote by being on maternity leave when she could have voted remotely but didn't want to have to resign her ministerial post. Now admitting she'd have voted against it when public opinion, rather than party loyalty is front of mind.

I find it hard to imagine being anti-abortion and anti-same sex marriage won't count against her (certainly with younger members) even if she claims to be 'bound by democracy'. Still, she might appeal to some Tory voters at election time.

Heard both her and Yousef speaking on Drivetime just now. Both sound pretty feeble (with annoying voices to boot). Haven't heard from Regan yet but her views chime most with my own so she has no chance.

[James310]

Seems fair enough

Good answer yes.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/stvnews/status/1627710305240219649?s=46&t=3YKvba4B-kKCDrw9YR5HNw


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[Ozyhibby]

Ducked out of the GRA vote by being on maternity leave when she could have voted remotely but didn't want to have to resign her ministerial post. Now admitting she'd have voted against it when public opinion, rather than party loyalty is front of mind.

I find it hard to imagine being anti-abortion and anti-same sex marriage won't count against her (certainly with younger members) even if she claims to be 'bound by democracy'. Still, she might appeal to some Tory voters at election time.

Heard both her and Yousef speaking on Drivetime just now. Both sound pretty feeble (with annoying voices to boot). Haven't heard from Regan yet but her views chime most with my own so she has no chance.

Scottish accents do tend to grate on some people.


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[James310]

Ms Forbes tells the BBC the SNP needs "a reset" over its strategy for independence, which she says has been "largely determined by a few people".

She also says she has the "vision, the experience and the competence" to inspire voters within the party and across the country.

Asked whether the next UK election should be treated as a de facto referendum on independence, the finance secretary says the issue is "not that simple".

She tells BBC Scotland: "I think in Scotland we need to build support so that it is unstoppable from Westminster's perspective."

Unstoppable...wonder what she means? Almost like you need like 60% in the polls for a sustainable period of time, who would have thought!

[Stairway 2 7]

Both favourites speak two languages which is cool, Yousef speaks Urdu and Forbes Gaelic

[James310]

"Yousaf says it's not good enough to have polls showing 50% 51% in support of independence. He says SNP has to grow that grassroots support so that we can definitively see that independence has become the settled will of the Scottish people."

I wonder what his target is, maybe 60%?

[He's here!]

Incidentally, bearing in mind how she banged on about a general election being 'a democratic imperative' when Johnson quit how come Sturgeon hasn't announced a Holyrood election?

[heretoday]

"Yousaf says it's not good enough to have polls showing 50% 51% in support of independence. He says SNP has to grow that grassroots support so that we can definitively see that independence has become the settled will of the Scottish people."

I wonder what his target is, maybe 60%?

More than that surely? It's a massive step.

[Pretty Boy]

Regan clearly positioning herself as the independence at any cost candidate.

Endorsing the de facto referendum where Yousef has distanced himself from it and she has blown any ongoing deal with the Greens clean out the water with her tweets today.

I don't think she has a hope in hell so it's looking like a 2 horse race and in that scenario Forbes will stroll it.

[Pretty Boy]

Incidentally, bearing in mind how she banged on about a general election being 'a democratic imperative' when Johnson quit how come Sturgeon hasn't announced a Holyrood election?

It's not really her decision to make now.

The new leader may well go to the polls to seek endorsement of their manifesto. It's what Brown should have done when he took over from Blair and we would have been spared the coalition from hell and potentially what followed. He delayed and the rest is history. A real sliding doors moment.

[James310]

More than that surely? It's a massive step.

I think if the polls show 60% or higher for a sustainable period of time we should have that referendum and both parties can make their cases.

I got dogs abuse for this only a few months ago but it looks like both Forbes and Yousaf agree.

[Ozyhibby]

Regan clearly positioning herself as the independence at any cost candidate.

Endorsing the de facto referendum where Yousef has distanced himself from it and she has blown any ongoing deal with the Greens clean out the water with her tweets today.

I don't think she has a hope in hell so it's looking like a 2 horse race and in that scenario Forbes will stroll it.

What I thought was interesting today was Angus McNeil didn’t back Regan even though she seems closely aligned to his Indy strategy. He has backed Forbes. Weird.
The universal Declaration of Independence strategy is the dumbest idea of all and even I would move away from SNP in those circumstances.


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[James310]

It's not really her decision to make now.

The new leader may well go to the polls to seek endorsement of their manifesto. It's what Brown should have done when he took over fron Blair and we would have been speared the coalition from hell and potentially what followed. He delayed and the rest is history. A real sliding doors moment.

Talking of manifestos, Forbes stood on the SNP manifesto that included gender reform changes but it seems she was against it all along.

[Ozyhibby]

It's not really her decision to make now.

The new leader may well go to the polls to seek endorsement of their manifesto. It's what Brown should have done when he took over fron Blair and we would have been speared the coalition from hell and potentially what followed. He delayed and the rest is history. A real sliding doors moment.

I really think new leader should go to the polls reasonably quickly.


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[Smartie]

Ducked out of the GRA vote by being on maternity leave when she could have voted remotely but didn't want to have to resign her ministerial post. Now admitting she'd have voted against it when public opinion, rather than party loyalty is front of mind.

I find it hard to imagine being anti-abortion and anti-same sex marriage won't count against her (certainly with younger members) even if she claims to be 'bound by democracy'. Still, she might appeal to some Tory voters at election time.

Heard both her and Yousef speaking on Drivetime just now. Both sound pretty feeble (with annoying voices to boot). Haven't heard from Regan yet but her views chime most with my own so she has no chance.

Is it that controversial for a politician to take public opinion into account when forming their position on a subject?

I suspect your take on her will be that of a witch hunter - if she goes one way you'll drown her, if she goes the other way you burn her.

[Pretty Boy]

Talking of manifestos, Forbes stood on the SNP manifesto that included gender reform changes but it seems she was against it all along.

It's something she is going to have to answer, probably repeatedly.

I was reading a bit about Blackford earlier and he appears to have consistently backed pro choice positions, same sex marriage etc. in spite of his Free Church membership. I'll say it again; Forbes has to be honest, if she states she will support the progressive side on such issues then she has to act accordingly, if she states opposition then people can make an informed choice. I think she is smart enough to know that personal faith and public service have to be distinct and separate on certain issues.

[Ozyhibby]

It's something she is going to have to answer, probably repeatedly.

I was reading a bit about Blackford earlier and he appears to have consistently backed pro choice positions, same sex marriage etc. in spite of his Free Church membership. I'll say it again; Forbes has to be honest, if she states she will support the progressive side on such issues then she has to act accordingly, if she states opposition then people can make an informed choice. I think she is smart enough to know that personal faith and public service have to be distinct and separate on certain issues.

She has already said today that she will support buffer zones around abortion clinics when it comes before parliament.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It's something she is going to have to answer, probably repeatedly.

I was reading a bit about Blackford earlier and he appears to have consistently backed pro choice positions, same sex marriage etc. in spite of his Free Church membership. I'll say it again; Forbes has to be honest, if she states she will support the progressive side on such issues then she has to act accordingly, if she states opposition then people can make an informed choice. I think she is smart enough to know that personal faith and public service have to be distinct and separate on certain issues.

I think she's said repeatedly she separates the two and and goes with the will of the party, some won't accept that. I doubt Yousef will have to answer if he will move Scotland towards the teachings of the Quran.

[Pretty Boy]

She has already said today that she will support buffer zones around abortion clinics when it comes before parliament.


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I had little doubt that would be the case and said as much earlier in the thread.

She's not stupid.

[Pretty Boy]

I think she's said repeatedly she separates the two and and goes with the will of the party, some won't accept that. I doubt Yousef will have to answer if he will move Scotland towards the teachings of the Quran.

I think anyone with a brain is able to separate the two.

The Pope, Moderator of the Church of Scotland and Archbishop of Canterbury were together in South Sudan the other week (this isn't the start of an Irishman, Englishman, Scotsman joke btw) and spoke out against laws which criminalise homosexuality FFS.

[SteveHFC]

I think she's said repeatedly she separates the two and and goes with the will of the party, some won't accept that. I doubt Yousef will have to answer if he will move Scotland towards the teachings of the Quran.

Twitter and the Scotland sub on Reddit saying they will not vote for the SNP if Forbes is appointed.

[Ozyhibby]

Twitter and the Scotland sub on Reddit saying they will not vote for the SNP if Forbes is appointed.

Who?


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[SteveHFC]

Who?


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Mostly SNP supporters.

[Ozyhibby]

On GRR it looks like the stances are

Yousaf - go to court.
Forbes - not go to court but find a way to get it passed with amendment that suit UK govt.
Regan - scrap it altogether.

I’m comfy with both Yousaf and Forbes position although Forbes is closer. Not comfy with scrapping the bill altogether.

And I’ve heard enough from them all on the subject. Would like to here some of their other policies.


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[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/ashtenregan/status/1627653377046839301?s=46&t=3YKvba4B-kKCDrw9YR5HNw


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So Forbes' faith may condemn a load of us to burn in hell.

Regan's policies may condemn us to burn to a crisp from global warming.

Or Yousaf's complete ineptitude will make our cheeks burn with embarrassment.

[James310]

On GRR it looks like the stances are

Yousaf - go to court.
Forbes - not go to court but find a way to get it passed with amendment that suit UK govt.
Regan - scrap it altogether.

I’m comfy with both Yousaf and Forbes position although Forbes is closer. Not comfy with scrapping the bill altogether.

And I’ve heard enough from them all on the subject. Would like to here some of their other policies.


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Forbes doesn't support self ID, which is pretty fundamental to the Bill.