So the runners and riders are...

[Santa Cruz]

Shona Robison is the new DFM.

Am I right in saying Humza's wife works in her constiuency office? I remember reading she worked for an MSP but not 100% sure.

[JeMeSouviens]

Am I right in saying Humza's wife works in her constiuency office? I remember reading she worked for an MSP but not 100% sure.

Could be, I think his wife is a Dundee councillor and Robison has a Dundee constituency iirc.

[Ozyhibby]

Shona Robison is the new DFM.

This looks like an early error. I’ll wait though and see full cabinet.


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[Santa Cruz]

Could be, I think his wife is a Dundee councillor and Robison has a Dundee constituency iirc.

Cheers. Googled it. Found a DM article (won't attach obvs :greengrin) she used to work for her. Your right she's now a Councillor.

[He's here!]

Shona Robison is the new DFM.

You've got to be kidding. Second only to Somerville when it comes to numptiness.

[Berwickhibby]

Boris Johnson already showed that.

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True :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Am I right in saying Humza's wife works in her constiuency office? I remember reading she worked for an MSP but not 100% sure.

Sorry,

Been off doing other things. I see you've got the answer. :aok:

[ronaldo7]

This looks like an early error. I’ll wait though and see full cabinet.


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He'll need to broaden that tent.

[Santa Cruz]

Sorry,

Been off doing other things. I see you've got the answer. :aok:

No probs, I should have just googled it, I'm getting lazy. No more cabinet appointments today according to STV.

[Ozyhibby]

He'll need to broaden that tent.

There are two ways to consolidate his power I guess. Bring in Forbes and share power to an extent or freeze her out and make the party smaller with a greater percentage of your followers left. Let’s wait and see which way he goes.


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[neil7908]

There are two ways to consolidate his power I guess. Bring in Forbes and share power to an extent or freeze her out and make the party smaller with a greater percentage of your followers left. Let’s wait and see which way he goes.


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We also don't know what has happened behind the scenes. Maybe he offered it to KF and she said no? Or she wants to stay on the finance side

[Ozyhibby]

We also don't know what has happened behind the scenes. Maybe he offered it to KF and she said no? Or she wants to stay on the finance side

Exactly. Plenty still to be decided over next couple of days.


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[Mibbes Aye]

Exactly. Plenty still to be decided over next couple of days.


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I’ve just heard she’s quit.

[SteveHFC]

I’ve just heard she’s quit.

https://twitter.com/chrismusson/status/1640753756336783360?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

Source on Kate Forbes rejecting Humza Yousaf's offer of a demotion to Rural Affairs Secretary:

"She told him where to stick it"

[marinello59]

https://twitter.com/chrismusson/status/1640753756336783360?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

Source on Kate Forbes rejecting Humza Yousaf's offer of a demotion to Rural Affairs Secretary:

"She told him where to stick it"

That’s an insulting offer if ever there was one.

[ronaldo7]

There are two ways to consolidate his power I guess. Bring in Forbes and share power to an extent or freeze her out and make the party smaller with a greater percentage of your followers left. Let’s wait and see which way he goes.


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He'll need someone else to batter those tent pegs back in. Wrong move not to keep Kate at Finance, but it's been rumoured that she wouldn't back the GRR.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve just heard she’s quit.

Looking like a very big error.[emoji35]


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[Pretty Boy]

Was there any way Forbes could take a position in Humza's cabinet?

She's spent the last few weeks essentially becoming the opposition Scotland has lacked for a decade. Tearing apart large parts of the record of the former FM, her party and the man who is now the FM. There's always an element of that in any such contest but she has gone above and beyond in highlighting every SNP failure and placed much of the blame at her new bosses door.

He had to ask her but it was never going to be a top job and she was never going to be able to accept.

[Ozyhibby]

Was there any way Forbes could take a position in Humza's cabinet?

She's spent the last few weeks essentially becoming the opposition Scotland has lacked for a decade. Tearing apart large parts of the record of the former FM, her party and the man who is now the FM. There's always an element of that in any such contest but she has gone above and beyond in highlighting every SNP failure and placed much of the blame at her new bosses door.

He had to ask her but it was never going to be a top job and she was never going to be able to accept.

The margin of the victory meant it really had to be a top job.
He has a problem now. This is worse than any insult she may have said during the campaign. And half the membership will see it that way. Talk about a self inflicted wound.


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[Just Alf]

The margin of the victory meant it really had to be a top job.
He has a problem now. This is worse than any insult she may have said during the campaign. And half the membership will see it that way. Talk about a self inflicted wound.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYup... almost feels petty (and unstatesmen like)

[ronaldo7]

The margin of the victory meant it really had to be a top job.
He has a problem now. This is worse than any insult she may have said during the campaign. And half the membership will see it that way. Talk about a self inflicted wound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She's responded...Classy.

https://twitter.com/_KateForbes/status/1640765979004108802

[Sergio sledge]

The margin of the victory meant it really had to be a top job.
He has a problem now. This is worse than any insult she may have said during the campaign. And half the membership will see it that way. Talk about a self inflicted wound.


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After appointing Robison as his DFM I don't think he could do much else, given her comments about KF during the campaign I don't think she'd have been very happy serving in the same government as KF.

Offer KF a demotion to look like you want her in your cabinet knowing full well that she will turn down that demotion and you can say it was her choice not to join.

He certainly seems to be going down the second route you suggested earlier in the thread.

[Mibbes Aye]

The margin of the victory meant it really had to be a top job.
He has a problem now. This is worse than any insult she may have said during the campaign. And half the membership will see it that way. Talk about a self inflicted wound.


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I posted just after the result and said I genuinely hoped he had the chance to enjoy winning as the reality of the job would soon kick in. I meant that. I had no idea he was going to pull the Robison decision and Forbes debacle out of the hat though.

[Moulin Yarns]

Was there any way Forbes could take a position in Humza's cabinet?

She's spent the last few weeks essentially becoming the opposition Scotland has lacked for a decade. Tearing apart large parts of the record of the former FM, her party and the man who is now the FM. There's always an element of that in any such contest but she has gone above and beyond in highlighting every SNP failure and placed much of the blame at her new bosses door.

He had to ask her but it was never going to be a top job and she was never going to be able to accept.

Shamelessly stolen from Jim Spence on twitter


Imagine thinking a good Christian wumman would accept a rural affair

[grunt]

Shamelessly stolen from Jim Spence on twitter ...The only person who ever blocked me on Twitter! :rolleyes:

[He's here!]

I’ve just heard she’s quit.

Can't blame her. She was never going to work with Robison after the way she attacked her during the campaign.

The unravelling of the SG/SNP just gets better by the day.

[Mibbes Aye]

Thinking more broadly about all this:

1) Was Marie Gougeon (no, me neither) going to be punted up or punted out?

2) Putting internal politics, ambitions and feuds aside, I think Forbes probably would have made a good minister for rural affairs.

[Ozyhibby]

Thinking more broadly about all this:

1) Was Marie Gougeon (no, me neither) going to be punted up or punted out?

2) Putting internal politics, ambitions and feuds aside, I think Forbes probably would have made a good minister for rural affairs.

I think she would have made a good fist of most jobs.

Edit:- equalities minister might have been problematic.[emoji23]


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[Stairway 2 7]

Can't believe what a self destructive first 24 hours he's had. She got 48% of members and was most liked by the public. Malcolm Chisholm was on the radio this morning saying he had no choice but to give her one of the top portfolios unless he wants a massive split.

He's either very daft or been told by the Murrells that they are continuing the path of the last 6 months

[Santa Cruz]

Thinking more broadly about all this:

1) Was Marie Gougeon (no, me neither) going to be punted up or punted out?

2) Putting internal politics, ambitions and feuds aside, I think Forbes probably would have made a good minister for rural affairs.

I watched a bit of SP TV earlier today, the Public Health Minister made a real mess of an answer, like she was obviously nervous. It was a bit strange, maybe been offered a promotion she doesn't really want?

[Mibbes Aye]

I think she would have made a good fist of most jobs.

Edit:- equalities minister might have been problematic.[emoji23]


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😂

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/she-told-him-where-to-stick-it-kate-forbes-rejects-yousaf-job-offer_uk_64231c12e4b0512ca92110bd

A senior SNP figure told HuffPost UK: “It’s a very poor start by Humza. He’s essentially ignoring the wishes of nearly half the party members

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/_kateforbes/status/1640787884671115275?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Forbes trying to calm things down. And Scotland just scored.[emoji102]


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[Mibbes Aye]

Would he perhaps have shown more guile to quickly engineer something she couldn’t vote for in conscience? With collective responsibility she would have to resign or he would be entitled to ask her to leave.

That might have been less ham-fisted and the focus would have been on her and her beliefs, rather than him exacting some sort of revenge?

[Glory Lurker]

Think I'm maybe done with the old politics for a bit. Stupid game.

[Smartie]

The only person who ever blocked me on Twitter! :rolleyes:

I used to play 5’s with him when I stayed in Dundee, about 20 years ago.

The most ballgreedy player I ever played with, he’d have been as well bringing his own ball along and running around with it for an hour by himself.

Other than that I quite liked him though.

[JeMeSouviens]

Think I'm maybe done with the old politics for a bit. Stupid game.

I’m with you. Rehashing my plan of moving somewhere where I can’t understand the news.

Seems like he wants to double down on everything that undid NS.

See you back here in a decade or so.

[Smartie]

I’m with you. Rehashing my plan of moving somewhere where I can’t understand the news.

Seems like he wants to double down on everything that undid NS.

See you back here in a decade or so.

Sadly I feel the same.

[Ozyhibby]

To be fair to Humza, he’s brought about an immediate improvement in the football team.


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[Glory Lurker]

To be fair to Humza, he’s brought about an immediate improvement in the football team.


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Aye. That's me back into the politics again!

[Hiber-nation]

Sadly I feel the same.

Me too. Things are bad enough as they are but this "Labour are Tories" nonsense various SNP politicians are now spouting is just not going to cut it in Scotland. Call out Labour on Brexit aye but we're not that daft.

[Mibbes Aye]

To be fair to Humza, he’s brought about an immediate improvement in the football team.


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If Humza was manager he would do pressers talking about Team Scotiand and then tell John McGinn he could play but he would have to go in goals 😀

[Berwickhibby]

If Humza was manager he would do pressers talking about Team Scotiand and then tell John McGinn he could play but he would have to go in goals 😀

Nah, if he was manager he probably would not let players based in England make the squad as they are unable to vote Esss Ennn peeee :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

Has Mairi McAllan been given a cabinet post?

[marinello59]

Has Mairi McAllan been given a cabinet post?

Given how shallow the SNP talent pool is it’s odds on she will be offered something.

[Andy Bee]

Given how shallow the SNP talent pool is it’s odds on she will be offered something.


:greengrin Not a fan then?

[Hibby Bairn]

With several "big guns" retired today's cabinet announcement will show just how poor our political talent base is now in the SP.

Looking forward to Yousaf and his new ministers getting tied in knots in SP and on TV and radio.

Overpromoted.

[He's here!]

With several "big guns" retired today's cabinet announcement will show just how poor our political talent base is now in the SP.

Looking forward to Yousaf and his new ministers getting tied in knots in SP and on TV and radio.

Overpromoted.

He's lucky the Scotland football team won last night to dilute the flak on the front pages after yesterday's cack-handed first day in charge. A masterclass in how to cement the split down the middle of the SNP.

[Santa Cruz]

Has Mairi McAllan been given a cabinet post?

This mornings Record tipping her for a promotion to Cabinet. She was appointed a junior minister post as soon as she became an MSP for the first time at the last election. Used to be a Special Advisor to NS before that, sometimes no a bad thing, think the SPADS sometimes know more than the elected politicians :greengrin. Michael Matheson being tipped for health minister. It's the Record so who knows :rolleyes:

[Stairway 2 7]

Ooft wow he's burning the 48%'s choices to the ground, "team snp" is for the winners and the greens. Magnanimous behaviour is for loosers it seems

British Electoral Politics
@electpoliticsuk
·
NEW:

Scottish Trade Minister Ivan McKee has resigned from the Scottish government after being offered “a lesser job”.

He was Kate Forbes’ campaign manager

[Ozyhibby]

Ooft wow he's burning the 48%'s choices to the ground, "team snp" is for the winners and the greens. Magnanimous behaviour is for loosers it seems

British Electoral Politics
@electpoliticsuk
·
NEW:

Scottish Trade Minister Ivan McKee has resigned from the Scottish government after being offered “a lesser job”.

He was Kate Forbes’ campaign manager

The ‘well being economy’ is now going to be tested to the max. It’s all been theory up till now. Will be interesting.
Smart from Forbes and McKee to sit back and offer full support. Never be seen to undermine.


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[He's here!]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/29/kate-forbes-leaving-scottish-government-personal-reasons-insists-yousaf-deputy

Robison trotting out the 'family reasons' line for Forbes quitting. Coupled with McKee resigning after also being offered a lesser role it smacks more of forcing them out. So much for the 'broad tent' approach he talked about...it's certainly shaping up to be 'continuity Sturgeon' ie my way or else.

I do wonder if, for all the public displays of warmth between them, Yousaf was privately stung by Forbes' attacks on his record. Her 'continuity won't cut it' mantra was certainly deployed to the max by opposition leaders against the new FM yesterday.

[grunt]

Robison trotting out the 'family reasons' line for Forbes quitting. Coupled with McKee resigning after also being offered a lesser role it smacks more of forcing them out. So much for the 'broad tent' approach he talked about...it's certainly shaping up to be 'continuity Sturgeon' ie my way or else.
If it was continuity Sturgeon wouldn't he have kept Kate Forbes in the Finance role?

[AgentDaleCooper]

He could hardly offer Forbes a top position after she slated him in the debates, simply because of the ammo she handed over to critics, which would immediately be hurled back at him.

I've heard folk criticise Yousaf as a carrer politician, but quitting cabinet because you've been demoted due to stuff you yourself said says nothing about public service and everything about career and ego.

[neil7908]

He could hardly offer Forbes a top position after she slated him in the debates, simply because of the ammo she handed over to critics, which would immediately be hurled back at him.

I've heard folk criticise Yousaf as a carrer politician, but quitting cabinet because you've been demoted due to stuff you yourself said says nothing about public service and everything about career and ego.

I agree. Forbes came out swinging in a very personal way.

She made it impossible for herself to be part of a government with Yousaf given how scathing she was.
If she took a prominent role, every question would be about why she is working in a Government with someone she criticised a few weeks ago. It would be impossible to do her job.

From Yousaf’s perspective, it would potentially overshadow his agenda.

He's played this very well. Forbes bet all on winning. Now she is dealing with the consequences.

[neil7908]

The book 'Team of Rivals' was en vouge a few years back about the best way to run a good government.

However, this was written about Abe Lincoln governing in the mid 19th century, and in 2005, way before 24 news cycle, Twitter etc.

The reality is that in 2023 it's impossible to govern effectively unless you have a cabinet united behind. Look at what divisions have done to the Tories.

Again, Forbes set the tone and has backed herself into a corner, where the only way out is victory. Despite all the 'competent' stuff, I thought her campaign was poor in a number of ways and not convinced Scottish politics will greatly miss her. I hope in exile she doesn't become the Messiah

[AgentDaleCooper]

The ‘well being economy’ is now going to be tested to the max. It’s all been theory up till now. Will be interesting.
Smart from Forbes and McKee to sit back and offer full support. Never be seen to undermine.


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think that boat has sailed. all opposition campaign leaflets at the next election are going to be quoting her heavily. Her campaign was incredibly naive, and actually quite incompetent. Had she won, she would have been a very loose cannon, albeit one with good graces and great confidence.

[Stairway 2 7]

think that boat has sailed. all opposition campaign leaflets at the next election are going to be quoting her heavily. Her campaign was incredibly naive, and actually quite incompetent. Had she won, she would have been a very loose cannon, albeit one with good graces and great confidence.

I think you and Neil are the only two people I've seen anywhere that has said it isn't a crazy move. She is much more popular than Yousaf with the public and almost half of votes wanted her rather than him to lead the party. Alienating her is saying to all they snp voters that wanted her, you lost its my way.

You need to remember things aren't going well. Member numbers have fallen of a cliff, the polls on independence have taken a big drop for the worse as has Westminster voting intention. He should have gave her a cabinet position like transport that doesn't set the agenda. For a decent number of SNP and green politicians I think independence is far down in their priorities as this isn't how you win no voters.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I think you and Neil are the only two people I've seen anywhere that has said it isn't a crazy move. She is much more popular than Yousaf with the public and almost half of votes wanted her rather than him to lead the party. Alienating her is saying to all they snp voters that wanted her, you lost its my way.

You need to remember things aren't going well. Member numbers have fallen of a cliff, the polls on independence have taken a big drop for the worse as has Westminster voting intention. He should have gave her a cabinet position like transport that doesn't set the agenda. For a decent number of SNP and green politicians I think independence is far down in their priorities as this isn't how you win no voters.

Rural affairs and islands is exactly the brief that she would excel in, and an opportunity to sort out a significant part of Scotland that is close to her heart.

If she had any prominent position, Humza would be instantly fielding questions about whether his own cabinet had confidence in him. This is entirely her own doing.

[Ozyhibby]

Rural affairs and islands is exactly the brief that she would excel in, and an opportunity to sort out a significant part of Scotland that is close to her heart.

If she had any prominent position, Humza would be instantly fielding questions about whether his own cabinet had confidence in him. This is entirely her own doing.

There are reports that because of the deal with the greens she would not have been able to reform things within the dept that she wanted to.

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/1641007115417387008?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Taking a job without proper power is a ticket to failure.


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[neil7908]

There are reports that because of the deal with the greens she would not have been able to reform things within the dept that she wanted to.

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/1641007115417387008?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Taking a job without proper power is a ticket to failure.


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Hmmmm, I'll take that with a massive pinch of salt without any explanation of how a pact with a minor party would make a genuine difference. Sorry but to me it comes across as more political maneuvering from her.

[Stairway 2 7]

Rural affairs and islands is exactly the brief that she would excel in, and an opportunity to sort out a significant part of Scotland that is close to her heart.

If she had any prominent position, Humza would be instantly fielding questions about whether his own cabinet had confidence in him. This is entirely her own doing.

Once again its only you I've seen that doesn't say its a large demotion and a much smaller portfolio. I'd be wasting both our time going back and forwards with you. I personally agree with most that its a crazy move. The proof will be when there's three of four polls. I'm pretty certain and despondent in the fact that it will be more of the same or worse, falling member numbers and falling polling.

I like many might switch off from it for a bit. It's depressing but the snp won't be increasing the chances of independence in the next year and it will just be culture war arguments with humza and the greens on one side

[He's here!]

If it was continuity Sturgeon wouldn't he have kept Kate Forbes in the Finance role?

Publicly calling out Sturgeon's government's record as mediocre won't have endeared her to the ex-FM. Wouldn't be surprised if Sturgeon had a hand in her being offered a lesser role by Yousaf.

[Ozyhibby]

Hmmmm, I'll take that with a massive pinch of salt without any explanation of how a pact with a minor party would make a genuine difference. Sorry but to me it comes across as more political maneuvering from her.

It doesn’t really matter now I guess. This is a sign if any move to the left from Yousaf now. It’s all about the well being economy. He’ll have to prove it can work. A significant chunk of his own party are sceptical. And the vast majority of the public even more so. He has time on his side now as it’s a while till the next Holyrood election.


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[He's here!]

There are reports that because of the deal with the greens she would not have been able to reform things within the dept that she wanted to.

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/1641007115417387008?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Taking a job without proper power is a ticket to failure.


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If that's true it just underlines Sturgeon's folly in shacking up with those bampots for the sake of a majority. Letting the tail wag the dog.

[Stairway 2 7]

It doesn’t really matter now I guess. This is a sign if any move to the left from Yousaf now. It’s all about the well being economy. He’ll have to prove it can work. A significant chunk of his own party are sceptical. And the vast majority of the public even more so. He has time on his side now as it’s a while till the next Holyrood election.


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Year and a half until a general election. Although it's not policy eyes will still be on if independence parties get 50% of votes. If the vote share goes down and they lose seats he'll be toast, if he makes it until then

[grunt]

Publicly calling out Sturgeon's government's record as mediocre won't have endeared her to the ex-FM. Wouldn't be surprised if Sturgeon had a hand in her being offered a lesser role by Yousaf.
So, not continuity Sturgeon then?

[Ozyhibby]

So, not continuity Sturgeon then?

It’s definitely not continuity now. This is a shift to the left.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It’s definitely not continuity now. This is a shift to the left.


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What makes it left. Private school humza is as socialist as I'm a world class 100 metre runner. It's culture war issues I've not seen any movement to the left on issues that the public care about, I'd bet the vast majority see it that way also

[Ozyhibby]

What makes it left. Private school humza is as socialist as I'm a world class 100 metre runner. It's culture war issues I've not seen any movement to the left on issues that the public care about, I'd bet the vast majority see it that way also

I haven’t seen anything on things the public care about at all?
Talk of well being economy sounds very wishy washy left wing to me though. Maybe not because I don’t actually know what it means.[emoji23]


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Once again its only you I've seen that doesn't say its a large demotion and a much smaller portfolio. I'd be wasting both our time going back and forwards with you. I personally agree with most that its a crazy move. The proof will be when there's three of four polls. I'm pretty certain and despondent in the fact that it will be more of the same or worse, falling member numbers and falling polling.

I like many might switch off from it for a bit. It's depressing but the snp won't be increasing the chances of independence in the next year and it will just be culture war arguments with humza and the greens on one side

i'm not saying that it isn't - of course it's a step down. I just don't think that the deal that people are saying Humza should have struck with her would have been in any way viable, because he would have been constantly fielding questions about whether his finance minister, transport minister or whatever had confidence in him, when she has explicitly, publicly, unambiguously and emphatically said that she doesn't, on a number of occasions. Can you not see how that would present a problem for him?

My other, separate point was that if she truly isn't a career politician, and the person of principle that people make her out to be, then why not accept the Rural affairs role? There's an awful lot of good she could do there.

I think the reason so many people seem to take a different view on this is that people still can't see how genuinely incompetent she's been in the campaign. She's been personable, confident and smiled a lot, but she's burned a lot of bridges that she didn't need to. How people could see her as a unifying candidate utterly baffles me.

[Ozyhibby]

And I actually don’t mind going to centre left if it’s proper things that can change lives. If he says we are going to start building 10k houses a year in order to ease the housing crisis than I’m all for it. If he’s going to improve schools then I’m all for it.


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[Ozyhibby]

i'm not saying that it isn't - of course it's a step down. I just don't think that the deal that people are saying Humza should have struck with her would have been in any way viable, because he would have been constantly fielding questions about whether his finance minister, transport minister or whatever had confidence in him, when she has explicitly, publicly, unambiguously and emphatically said that she doesn't, on a number of occasions. Can you not see how that would present a problem for him?

My other, separate point was that if she truly isn't a career politician, and the person of principle that people make her out to be, then why not accept the Rural affairs role? There's an awful lot of good she could do there.

I think the reason so many people seem to take a different view on this is that people still can't see how genuinely incompetent she's been in the campaign. She's been personable, confident and smiled a lot, but she's burned a lot of bridges that she didn't need to. How people could see her as a unifying candidate utterly baffles me.

You deal with the opposition heckling you by being a grown up and striking a compromise that strengthens your position in both the party and the country. You accept that she made fair points during the campaign and you set out a course to improve govt for all.
You think by getting rid of her the opposition parties will now give him an easy ride?


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[Stairway 2 7]

i'm not saying that it isn't - of course it's a step down. I just don't think that the deal that people are saying Humza should have struck with her would have been in any way viable, because he would have been constantly fielding questions about whether his finance minister, transport minister or whatever had confidence in him, when she has explicitly, publicly, unambiguously and emphatically said that she doesn't, on a number of occasions. Can you not see how that would present a problem for him?

My other, separate point was that if she truly isn't a career politician, and the person of principle that people make her out to be, then why not accept the Rural affairs role? There's an awful lot of good she could do there.

I think the reason so many people seem to take a different view on this is that people still can't see how genuinely incompetent she's been in the campaign. She's been personable, confident and smiled a lot, but she's burned a lot of bridges that she didn't need to. How people could see her as a unifying candidate utterly baffles me.
You keep saying her campaign was a disaster. She said she was against sex before marriage and other crazy victorian things and yet lost by 1000 votes and got almost half of all votes. She was also clearly more liked by the general public in every poll. I'm sure you'll agree if you think hers was bad for being too honest and not very political, his must have been an absolute bin fire to just win by playing continuity.

The public preferred the handmaid's tail to what we've had the last year. Why couldn't we have had just a normal competent person focused on the things that the public care about. Robertson or flynn would have got about 80% if they had ran I reckon

[Since90+2]

i'm not saying that it isn't - of course it's a step down. I just don't think that the deal that people are saying Humza should have struck with her would have been in any way viable, because he would have been constantly fielding questions about whether his finance minister, transport minister or whatever had confidence in him, when she has explicitly, publicly, unambiguously and emphatically said that she doesn't, on a number of occasions. Can you not see how that would present a problem for him?

My other, separate point was that if she truly isn't a career politician, and the person of principle that people make her out to be, then why not accept the Rural affairs role? There's an awful lot of good she could do there.

I think the reason so many people seem to take a different view on this is that people still can't see how genuinely incompetent she's been in the campaign. She's been personable, confident and smiled a lot, but she's burned alot of bridges that she didn't need to. How people could see her as a unifying candidate utterly baffles me.

If she was a career politician, she'd have dodged the questions on gay marriage and GRC.

Given how narrowly she lost out by, you'd have to say she'd be First Minister by now if she'd done what most politicians do and not answer it at all or not give an honest answer.

The fact she was totally honest, despite probably knowing it would hurt her campaign, says to me she is person of principle.

Humza dodged the vote on gay marriage for political purposes IMO. Of the two, he's definitely more a career politician.

[Hibby Bairn]

Outside of the SNP, Forbes is more endearing and likeable to the broader general public than Yousaf.

This idea that Scotland wants more left leaning policies is also coming from within the converted. Outside of that bubble, Scotland is actually quite a conservative country.

Just like the folk who belt out Flower of Scotland at Hampden and Murrayfield. The like to think they believe the words but most don't.

[Mibbes Aye]

I haven’t seen anything on things the public care about at all?
Talk of well being economy sounds very wishy washy left wing to me though. Maybe not because I don’t actually know what it means.[emoji23]


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If Humza is serious about the well-being economy rather than it being a soundbite (soundbute?), then we need to don the crash helmets.

The global markets would absolutely ragdoll an independent Scotland as things stand. I don’t think for a second he knows what he means.

[Mibbes Aye]

He could hardly offer Forbes a top position after she slated him in the debates, simply because of the ammo she handed over to critics, which would immediately be hurled back at him.

I've heard folk criticise Yousaf as a carrer politician, but quitting cabinet because you've been demoted due to stuff you yourself said says nothing about public service and everything about career and ego.

She didn’t give any ammo to critics, they had it already! 😀

[Since90+2]

Outside of the SNP, Forbes is more endearing and likeable to the broader general public than Yousaf.

This idea that Scotland wants more left leaning policies is also coming from within the converted. Outside of that bubble, Scotland is actually quite a conservative country.

Just like the folk who belt out Flower of Scotland at Hampden and Murrayfield. The like to think they believe the words but most don't.

Scotland is not a conservative country. Certainly not these days anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

Talk of career politicians, simply look at the respective qualifications and decide who is likely to be one. #justsaying

[Berwickhibby]

As well as being Deputy FM Shona Robison is to become Humza Yousaf's next Finance Secretary 🤦*♂️🤦*♂️🤦*♂️ madness.

What have the people of Scotland done to deserve this?

[Santa Cruz]

I'm a bit lost looking at the Cabinet list, can't see a Transport Sec. Was this a junior minister post?

[SteveHFC]

I'm a bit lost looking at the Cabinet list, can't see a Transport Sec. Was this a junior minister post?

Just came to post this.

Wonder who will take over.

[Santa Cruz]

Just came to post this.

Wonder who will take over.

Must be Keith Brown, he's missing from the list, he's been replaced by Angela Constance.

Edit - thought transport was a senior post, got confused not seeing it listed.

[Hibby Bairn]

What a waste of money all these posts are. Fannying about doing sweet fa. Plus SP. Plus Bute House.

[Ozyhibby]

What a waste of money all these posts are. Fannying about doing sweet fa. Plus SP. Plus Bute House.

Hilarious. [emoji23]


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[AgentDaleCooper]

You keep saying her campaign was a disaster. She said she was against sex before marriage and other crazy victorian things and yet lost by 1000 votes and got almost half of all votes. She was also clearly more liked by the general public in every poll. I'm sure you'll agree if you think hers was bad for being too honest and not very political, his must have been an absolute bin fire to just win by playing continuity.

The public preferred the handmaid's tail to what we've had the last year. Why couldn't we have had just a normal competent person focused on the things that the public care about. Robertson or flynn would have got about 80% if they had ran I reckon

i'd say his was more or less a bin fire, yeah. We got the least of three evils though, IMO. I just think she was unbelievably naive, sh@t in her own nest, and is now wondering why she's not been offered a top position.

this is the crux of my point though - how the hell could Humza appoint someone to a top position when they have absolutely condemned his record in every job he's held? This would be a complete own goal, more so than demoting her, as he'd be, from the outset, fielding questions about whether his own cabinet had faith in him. Forbes forced his hand with this.

[ronaldo7]

What a waste of money all these posts are. Fannying about doing sweet fa. Plus SP. Plus Bute House.

I take it you don't like devolution?

[Hibby Bairn]

I take it you don't like devolution?
When the SP was first established we had some real political heavyweights elected. It seemed visionary and outward looking. A chance to do things differently.

Not so anymore. Very average people now in that chamber. Not least Yousaf. Hopeless.

[ronaldo7]

When the SP was first established we had some real political heavyweights elected. It seemed visionary and outward looking. A chance to do things differently.

Not so anymore. Very average people now in that chamber. Not least Yousaf. Hopeless.

I suppose we could look at parliament's the world over and make the same argument. When the parliament was resumed it did feel like a new way to do politics with the rainbow parliament. Maybe we'll get back to that when Alba get a couple of MSPs elected. 🙈

[Stairway 2 7]

As well as being Deputy FM Shona Robison is to become Humza Yousaf's next Finance Secretary 🤦*♂️🤦*♂️🤦*♂️ madness.

What have the people of Scotland done to deserve this?

Jumped before being sacked from her last big role in health, it's simply mental that Yousaf thinks she would do a better job than Forbes. It's not a bowling club you can't just pick your pals or the people that like you, this is our countries economy

[weecounty hibby]

If Humza is serious about the well-being economy rather than it being a soundbite (soundbute?), then we need to don the crash helmets.

The global markets would absolutely ragdoll an independent Scotland as things stand. I don’t think for a second he knows what he means.
Maybe you could explain what he means. Maybe you should get in touch with him as you obviously know what he means but he doesn't. He is forming a government so maybe someone who knows what he actually means would be a benefit to him. On the other hand.............

[Mibbes Aye]

I suppose we could look at parliament's the world over and make the same argument. When the parliament was resumed it did feel like a new way to do politics with the rainbow parliament. Maybe we'll get back to that when Alba get a couple of MSPs elected. 🙈

A rainbow Parliament you say? Well, we have already got Bungle as FM 😀

[Mibbes Aye]

Maybe you could explain what he means. Maybe you should get in touch with him as you obviously know what he means but he doesn't. He is forming a government so maybe someone who knows what he actually means would be a benefit to him. On the other hand.............

Or maybe the people of Scotland should know what he means? You know, the ones he was elected to serve?

[Stairway 2 7]

Housing and transport not given cabinet posts weird no?

[weecounty hibby]

Or maybe the people of Scotland should know what he means? You know, the ones he was elected to serve?
You specifically said he doesn't know what he means. I would like you to clarify what he means as you know best. What you posted in response us your usual deflection after a nonsense statement. So I'll ask again fir you to explain what he means as you seem to k ow best

[Since90+2]

Or maybe the people of Scotland should know what he means? You know, the ones he was elected to serve?

Gee him a chance, man.

He's literally only in the door.

I don't think he'll do particularly well but I genuinely hope he does because it will benefit the people of this country.

I get the impression some people actually want him to be an absolute disaster, despite that not being a good thing for any of us. That's a rather odd mindset IMO.

[He's here!]

Jumped before being sacked from her last big role in health, it's simply mental that Yousaf thinks she would do a better job than Forbes. It's not a bowling club you can't just pick your pals or the people that like you, this is our countries economy

Thank **** he's bumped Somerville off the education beat (I actually think Gilruth might salvage some hope for Scottish schools), but to retain both her and Robison in the cabinet can only come down to an old pals act (or an alarming reflection of the dearth of talent otherwise available).

Good to see the back of Keith Brown, although I'm guessing he retains his deputy party leader role in which case we'll not be completely spared his repellent presence on our screens.

[Ozyhibby]

Gee him a chance, man.

He's literally only in the door.

I don't think he'll do particularly well but I genuinely hope he does because it will benefit the people of this country.

I get the impression some people actually want him to be an absolute disaster, despite that not being a good thing for any of us. That's a rather odd mindset IMO.

There are people on both sides like that. It’s grim.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Jumped before being sacked from her last big role in health, it's simply mental that Yousaf thinks she would do a better job than Forbes. It's not a bowling club you can't just pick your pals or the people that like you, this is our countries economy

how the **** could he pick forbes though? how could anyone appoint someone to that position when they have demonstrated so publicly that they have no faith in him?

it would immediately become a massive distraction, and she'd end up having to go anyway. she created this situation herself.

[Santa Cruz]

Housing and transport not given cabinet posts weird no?

Aye, who was in charge of Housing? Keith Brown is ofski recruiting party members :greengrin

[ElginHibbie]

Gee him a chance, man.

He's literally only in the door.

I don't think he'll do particularly well but I genuinely hope he does because it will benefit the people of this country.

I get the impression some people actually want him to be an absolute disaster, despite that not being a good thing for any of us. That's a rather odd mindset IMO.

Change country for club and this post could have been from any of the new manager threads over the years on here :greengrin

[He's here!]

how the **** could he pick forbes though? how could anyone appoint someone to that position when they have demonstrated so publicly that they have no faith in him?

it would immediately become a massive distraction, and she'd end up having to go anyway. she created this situation herself.


Sir John Curtice's view:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-65098644?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64243d556c5d023ff8d50057%26Is%20tensio n%20better%20inside%20the%20cabinet%20than%20out%3 F%262023-03-29T14%3A33%3A16.579Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e85d4869-6e70-4483-b66e-df86ecf809f1&pinned_post_asset_id=64243d556c5d023ff8d50057&pinned_post_type=share

[Stairway 2 7]

how the **** could he pick forbes though? how could anyone appoint someone to that position when they have demonstrated so publicly that they have no faith in him?

it would immediately become a massive distraction, and she'd end up having to go anyway. she created this situation herself.

We get it 👍

[weecounty hibby]

Aye, who was in charge of Housing? Keith Brown is ofski recruiting party members :greengrin

Might be wrong but I think these are both junior ministerial posts so will be announced later
Edit. Replied to this but we were talking about housing and transport

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/holyrood-sources/id1673972192?i=1000606457593

Today’s Holyrood sources is a great listen.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

We get it 👍

but you've not actually addressed the point i keep making once, hence me repeating myself.

how could a first minister appoint a finance secretary that has explicitly said that they see him as incompetent and a failure in all of his previous roles? would that not create a massive problem going forward? genuinely want to know what you think.

[Stairway 2 7]

Might be wrong but I think these are both junior ministerial posts so will be announced later

Didn't used to be I think but might be wrong. I think Ivan McKee is a big loss for his business acumen. Very respected and did well with the Common Weal who I like

[Ozyhibby]

Might be wrong but I think these are both junior ministerial posts so will be announced later
Edit. Replied to this but we were talking about housing and transport

Housing shouldn’t be.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Sir John Curtice's view:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-65098644?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64243d556c5d023ff8d50057%26Is%20tensio n%20better%20inside%20the%20cabinet%20than%20out%3 F%262023-03-29T14%3A33%3A16.579Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e85d4869-6e70-4483-b66e-df86ecf809f1&pinned_post_asset_id=64243d556c5d023ff8d50057&pinned_post_type=share

honestly don't know what else he could have done, though.

[Mibbes Aye]

You specifically said he doesn't know what he means. I would like you to clarify what he means as you know best. What you posted in response us your usual deflection after a nonsense statement. So I'll ask again fir you to explain what he means as you seem to k ow best

I said I don’t think he knows what he means, Now you are asking me to explain what he means???

[Since90+2]

but you've not actually addressed the point i keep making once, hence me repeating myself.

how could a first minister appoint a finance secretary that has explicitly said that they see him as incompetent and a failure in all of his previous roles? would that not create a massive problem going forward? genuinely want to know what you think.

Perhaps to indicate he's prepared to overlook personal criticism for the overall good of the country? Playing devil's advocate here, an argument can be made either way.

KF is generally seen as having done a decent job as Finance Minister. She's clearly a competent operator.

[Stairway 2 7]

but you've not actually addressed the point i keep making once, hence me repeating myself.

how could a first minister appoint a finance secretary that has explicitly said that they see him as incompetent and a failure in all of his previous roles? would that not create a massive problem going forward? genuinely want to know what you think.

No sure if you're kidding. I've replied disagreeing about five times and you just keep coming back saying your wrong I'm right. It's bold since about every commentator agrees with me.

Every leadership election has people attacking each other they then kiss and make up. 48% wanted Forbes it's mental to slap them down just to defend against an opposition attack line that will still come regardless.

We disagree there is not much more to say, your welcome to your view it's valid and I understand it but I disagree

[Mibbes Aye]

Gee him a chance, man.

He's literally only in the door.

I don't think he'll do particularly well but I genuinely hope he does because it will benefit the people of this country.

I get the impression some people actually want him to be an absolute disaster, despite that not being a good thing for any of us. That's a rather odd mindset IMO.

He talked about a well-being economy all through the leadership campaign but I don’t think anyone asked him what that means for people, businesses, local and central government etc.

Putting yourself up for FM shouldn’t lead to a guessing game about your vision for the future.

[He's here!]

Gee him a chance, man.

He's literally only in the door.

I don't think he'll do particularly well but I genuinely hope he does because it will benefit the people of this country.

I get the impression some people actually want him to be an absolute disaster, despite that not being a good thing for any of us. That's a rather odd mindset IMO.

For half the country (or more, judging by recent polls) the removal of the SNP from government and with it their power to maintain the dead weight of independence on Scottish politics would be a good thing. It's over to Labour to prove that they can capitalise on the SG's unravalling post-Sturgeon though - and, as you say, govern more effectively than the SNP.

[ronaldo7]

Didn't used to be I think but might be wrong. I think Ivan McKee is a big loss for his business acumen. Very respected and did well with the Common Weal who I like

Agreed. He did well during the covid pandemic getting lines of PPE sourced quickly, and reasonably priced. He's got a good business acumen.

[ronaldo7]

For half the country (or more, judging by recent polls) the removal of the SNP from government and with it their power to maintain the dead weight of independence on Scottish politics would be a good thing. It's over to Labour to prove that they can capitalise on the SG's unravalling post-Sturgeon though - and, as you say, govern more effectively than the SNP.

Step forward the PFI people. Gawd no.

[Ozyhibby]

For half the country (or more, judging by recent polls) the removal of the SNP from government and with it their power to maintain the dead weight of independence on Scottish politics would be a good thing. It's over to Labour to prove that they can capitalise on the SG's unravalling post-Sturgeon though - and, as you say, govern more effectively than the SNP.

For all the bother the SNP is having just now, I don’t see a path to victory for Labour just now.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

No sure if you're kidding. I've replied disagreeing about five times and you just keep coming back saying your wrong I'm right. It's bold since about every commentator agrees with me.

Every leadership election has people attacking each other they then kiss and make up. 48% wanted Forbes it's mental to slap them down just to defend against an opposition attack line that will still come regardless.

We disagree there is not much more to say, your welcome to your view it's valid and I understand it but I disagree

right, ok - apologies if I've been an irritation, I've just genuinely not seen a direct answer to what I've been saying in any of my posts, i.e. that Forbes went beyond anything I've seen in leadership debates and really, genuinely crapped all over everything Humza has ever done.

I've got that you disagree, but your given reason seems extremely general, and ignores the severity of the criticism that Forbes threw at Yousaf, and the amount of ammunition that she has handed opposition parties.

if you're response to this is simply 'i don't think it's that big a deal', then we do indeed just have very different points of view, i just find yours rather unfathomable and would genuinely like to understand it.

to my mind, 'lots of clever people agree with me' just isn't an argument or a premise, it's just a flex.

[archie]

Step forward the PFI people. Gawd no.So the Scottish Government doesn't do PFI type schemes?

[Stairway 2 7]

For all the bother the SNP is having just now, I don’t see a path to victory for Labour just now.


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Enough will vote for snp regardless to be biggest party probably. But if this free fall continues they could definitely lose seats. If that happens and the majority asked don't want independence then they have failed in the one job that should be central, getting independence.

[ronaldo7]

So the Scottish Government doesn't do PFI type schemes?

You know they do. Just not the ones done previously by the labour party.

[archie]

You know they do. Just not the ones done previously by the labour party.
Like this? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23347394.revealed-8-5bn-bill-2-9bn-scots-infrastructure-projects/

[Moulin Yarns]

What a waste of money all these posts are. Fannying about doing sweet fa. Plus SP. Plus Bute House.

Could say the same about the Scottish office on New Street!

[Stairway 2 7]

SNP/greens £20 billion PFI for trees, decent article. All the major parties are big business asset strippers

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-money-trees-are-making-us-poorer/

Is there no aspect of Scotland which isn’t there mainly to make the very rich richer? Is there no limit to how much the Scottish Government will bust a gut to increase the pace at which Scotland is asset-stripped by the wealthy

I ask because last week the Scottish Government announced that we were going to be force-fed ‘PFI For Trees’. I shall only give you a quick explanation of the scheme here – if you want more detail on how its meant to work and why it isn’t the right approach for nature this piece by Andy Wightman will help you out and if you want to know about the economics and the finance networks involved this piece by Nick Kemp will give you the basics

Lorna Slater has signed off on a deal to run a private finance project to secure what she claims will be an investment of up to £20 billion for nature restoration. Please do not get the impression that this is selfless act of generosity. It is not philanthropy, it is just another opportunity for Big Finance profit-gouging based on Scotland’s natural assets.

[ronaldo7]

Like this? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23347394.revealed-8-5bn-bill-2-9bn-scots-infrastructure-projects/

Good for you. 👍

I could offer up several more during the labour governments showing multiple billions we're still paying, they left office 16 years ago. The point made was that the British labour party are in no fit shape to run Scotland, unless Jackie baillie is your answer. Good luck with that. 👍

[Berwickhibby]

Like this? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23347394.revealed-8-5bn-bill-2-9bn-scots-infrastructure-projects/

And don’t mention ferries :greengrin:greengrin:wink:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/chrismceleny/status/1641006832759058436?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[archie]

Good for you. 👍

I could offer up several more during the labour governments showing multiple billions we're still paying, they left office 16 years ago. The point made was that the British labour party are in no fit shape to run Scotland, unless Jackie baillie is your answer. Good luck with that. 👍

I think there's a legitimate discussion about PFI to be had. It seems your issue isn't PFI per se, but ones brought in by different parties?

[ronaldo7]

I think there's a legitimate discussion about PFI to be had. It seems your issue isn't PFI per se, but ones brought in by different parties?

It's already been had on here. If you use the search function you should be able to find it. 👍

[archie]

It's already been had on here. If you use the search function you should be able to find it. 👍

Oh well!

[marinello59]

I think there's a legitimate discussion about PFI to be had.

It is worrying that our present Government seems to have learned nothing from the mistakes made by previous administrations. I really can’t understand just how we have fallen in to the same traps again.

[Santa Cruz]

Ben McPherson away from his position now, wasn't happy with what he was offered according to STV, never heard what it was though cos Colin Mackay was going a hundred miles an hour, I couldn't keep up.

[archie]

It is worrying that our present Government seems to have learned nothing from the mistakes made by previous administrations. I really can’t understand just how we have fallen in to the same traps again.

I think it comes into play for politicians when they see the scale of challenges that need addresed in the short to medium term. I'm not defending the model, but it could be argued that, while we criticise the cost of an asset built through PFI, we have the asset. Would it have been built otherwise?

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it comes into play for politicians when they see the scale of challenges that need addresed in the short to medium term. I'm not defending the model, but it could be argued that, while we criticise the cost of an asset built through PFI, we have the asset. Would it have been built otherwise?

Like if you bought an item on yourself credit yourself it depends if it worth the final price.

[archie]

Like if you bought an item on yourself credit yourself it depends if it worth the final price.And what alternative mechanisms were available to you.

[He's here!]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-humza-yousaf-destined-for-liz-trusss-fate/

'Is Yousaf destined for Liz Truss's fate?'

[Kato]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-humza-yousaf-destined-for-liz-trusss-fate/

'Is Yousaf destined for Liz Truss's fate?'What? A PM's lifetime pension for doing nowt and a personal honours list to dole out to his pals?

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[Hibby Bairn]

BTW...what is the Wellbeing Economy?

And do we have a Minister for the Economy?

[Since90+2]

BTW...what is the Wellbeing Economy?

And do we have a Minister for the Economy?

It would be impossible to have a "Minister for the Economy". The mechanics of government and the various departments make that impossible.

The closest thing you might have is a Finance Minister.

[Hibby Bairn]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-humza-yousaf-destined-for-liz-trusss-fate/

'Is Yousaf destined for Liz Truss's fate?'

Good article that. Little to disagree with.

[Mibbes Aye]

It would be impossible to have a "Minister for the Economy". The mechanics of government and the various departments make that impossible.

The closest thing you might have is a Finance Minister.

Lots of countries have a Finance Ministry and a Ministry for Economic Affairs, two separate and distinct departments.

Off the top of my head, there’s the Dutch and the Finnish for example, plenty more out there.

The UK had a Ministry for Economic Affairs as well as a finance ministry (the Treasury) under Harold Wilson. And Blair gave at least some thought to setting up a MEA to wrest power back from Brown and the Treasury, notwithstanding the fact that one of the key levers of monetary policy, the setting of interest rates, had been delegated to the Bank of England.

[Santa Cruz]

BTW...what is the Wellbeing Economy?

And do we have a Minister for the Economy?

Aye, Cab Sec for Wellbeing Economy, Fair Work and Energy is Neil Gray. Don't know what it is though.

[Ozyhibby]

Aye, Cab Sec for Wellbeing Economy, Fair Work and Energy is Neil Gray. Don't know what it is though.

Energy should be it’s own ministry you would think? Too important to be thrown in with other stuff. Although I guess it’s not devolved so less work.


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[Santa Cruz]

Energy should be it’s own ministry you would think? Too important to be thrown in with other stuff. Although I guess it’s not devolved so less work.


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I would have thought the same about transport, think it was mentioned on the news earlier it's a junior position under the net zero portfolio.

[Stairway 2 7]

Energy should be it’s own ministry you would think? Too important to be thrown in with other stuff. Although I guess it’s not devolved so less work.


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I'd just give it to the common weal to deal with. The SNP have gave away our rights for a few million so big energy companies can make tens of billions

https://commonweal.scot/policies/scotwind-privatising-scotlands-future-again/

[Stairway 2 7]

I would have thought the same about transport, think it was mentioned on the news earlier it's a junior position under the net zero portfolio.

Probably one of the greens 500 red lines

[Kato]

Lots of countries have a Finance Ministry and a Ministry for Economic Affairs, two separate and distinct departments.

Off the top of my head, there’s the Dutch and the Finnish for example, plenty more out there.

The UK had a Ministry for Economic Affairs as well as a finance ministry (the Treasury) under Harold Wilson. And Blair gave at least some thought to setting up a MEA to wrest power back from Brown and the Treasury, notwithstanding the fact that one of the key levers of monetary policy, the setting of interest rates, had been delegated to the Bank of England.We've got all those billionaire fascist think-tanks to sort all those things out these days. No need for any politician to think about anything.

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[archie]

We've got all those billionaire fascist think-tanks to sort all those things out these days. No need for any politician to think about anything.

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Getting them involved is a bit of a u turn from Humza!

[Hibby Bairn]

It would be impossible to have a "Minister for the Economy". The mechanics of government and the various departments make that impossible.

The closest thing you might have is a Finance Minister.

Surely it should be a priority area building consensus, collaboration and coalition to build the economic strategy for Independence?

Or is that too difficult an area for our esteemed FM and his Cabinet to foster? Big bad business etc.

[Mibbes Aye]

We've got all those billionaire fascist think-tanks to sort all those things out these days. No need for any politician to think about anything.

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Sir Humphrey would be appalled if he could see what was going on. Outsiders getting in the way of civil servants running the country 😀

[archie]

Sir Humphrey would be appalled if he could see what was going on. Outsiders getting in the way of civil servants running the country 😀

Or getting in the way of civil servants ruining the country...

[Mibbes Aye]

Energy should be it’s own ministry you would think? Too important to be thrown in with other stuff. Although I guess it’s not devolved so less work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Some aspects are devolved but not all. I struggle to see why Net Zero isn’t connected to it. It seems to work well for Labour with Ed Miliband.

[He's here!]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-is-exposed-as-half-full-of-tartan-tories-rwqj2qmmq

'SNP exposed as half full of Tartan Tories'

[grunt]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-is-exposed-as-half-full-of-tartan-tories-rwqj2qmmq

'SNP exposed as half full of Tartan Tories'Kenny Farq. Opinionated jerk.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-is-exposed-as-half-full-of-tartan-tories-rwqj2qmmq

'SNP exposed as half full of Tartan Tories'

2 minutes wasted reading that

[He's here!]

Sorry if already posted but who is now responsible for transport in the SG? Seems quite a biggie to be a junior post.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sorry if already posted but who is now responsible for transport in the SG? Seems quite a biggie to be a junior post.

It's a huge role road rail boats. Really surprising

Does anyone know if lorna Slater is still employed, hopefully not.

I notice Angela Constance the drugs minister who has been in charge when Scottish drug deaths (Europe's worst) have risen and stayed there, has been promoted to justice. Backbenchers are far superior to the clown car front bench

[Santa Cruz]

Sorry if already posted but who is now responsible for transport in the SG? Seems quite a biggie to be a junior post.

No idea. Ben MacPherson offered it and declined. Look at the MSP's from other parties comments wishing him well.

https://twitter.com/BenMacpherson/status/1641129171278610444?cxt=HHwWmIC-yaiSu8YtAAAA

[Santa Cruz]

Public being chucked out the SP viewing gallery. There's been 4 suspensions during FMQ's all due to disruption from the public gallery. Douglas Ross hasn't even managed to finish his q's yet. Seems to be females shouting, hard to make out what or who they're shouting at.

Edit - 5 disruptions the PO confirmed. Letting school kids stay - they behave better. Now suspended again to consider if some adults can return, a point of order was raised by an MSP.

[Ozyhibby]

Humza at least showing that he is at least better than the two opposition leaders. Decent performance. Although it’s not a high bar.


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[SteveHFC]

No idea. Ben MacPherson offered it and declined. Look at the MSP's from other parties comments wishing him well.

https://twitter.com/BenMacpherson/status/1641129171278610444?cxt=HHwWmIC-yaiSu8YtAAAA

https://twitter.com/kevinstewartsnp/status/1641394236816777216?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

Kevin Stewart new transport minister.

[ronaldo7]

Humza at least showing that he is at least better than the two opposition leaders. Decent performance. Although it’s not a high bar.


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Opposition leaders offered the usual lines, which allowed the FM to bat away easily. He was very robust and soon put them in their place.

An easy start for him.

[Ozyhibby]

Opposition leaders offered the usual lines, which allowed the FM to bat away easily. He was very robust and soon put them in their place.

An easy start for him.

I doubt it will get any harder with Sarwar and Ross. I guess it’s better to be lucky than good and with opposition like those two he has had a lucky start.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/kevinstewartsnp/status/1641394236816777216?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

Kevin Stewart new transport minister.

https://archive.ph/vuxh1

Only know him from being called creepy.

Notice there is now 28 paid ministers

[Curried]

Opposition leaders offered the usual lines, which allowed the FM to bat away easily. He was very robust and soon put them in their place.

An easy start for him.

Agree with this. Pretty solid start by Yousaf. Enjoyed the line to Murray Ross about him being a third-rate politician leading a third-rate party :-)

[Stairway 2 7]

I doubt it will get any harder with Sarwar and Ross. I guess it’s better to be lucky than good and with opposition like those two he has had a lucky start.


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He isn't up against they two he is up against gaining independence it's literally the parties aim. Sturgeon was up against they two the last 6 months when things were falling apart. That was nothing to do with they two being good or not

[Ozyhibby]

He isn't up against they two he is up against gaining independence it's literally the parties aim. Sturgeon was up against they two the last 6 months when things were falling apart. That was nothing to do with they two being good or not

I’m only talking about in order to stabilise things in order to regain re-election. I don’t think he’s capable of the bigger stuff although he might surprise me yet, hopefully.


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[Santa Cruz]

https://archive.ph/vuxh1

Only know him from being called creepy.

Notice there is now 28 paid ministers

Out of 64 SNP MSP's. Nearly half. All junior ministers get an extra £30k on top of their MSP salaries. Cab Secs an additional £50k. Add in support staff and expenses etc. No bad for some, no so good for others. :cb

[Stairway 2 7]

Out of 64 SNP MSP's. Nearly half. All junior ministers get an extra £30k on top of their MSP salaries. Cab Secs an additional £50k. Add in support staff and expenses etc. No bad for some, no so good for others. :cb

Obscene amounts. Almost 100,000 each for junior ministers. Doubt they will notice the cost of living crisis

[ronaldo7]

Obscene amounts. Almost 100,000 each for junior ministers. Doubt they will notice the cost of living crisis

Do they still take their salary at 2007 levels, with the rest going into the public purse?

[Stairway 2 7]

Do they still take their salary at 2007 levels, with the rest going into the public purse?

There £67,000 wage is safe, it's the top up that's frozen so juniors still come out with almost 90k. Ministers are over 100k.

Think about half of msps have second jobs I'd read, Labour's Neil Findlay tried to put a motion to ban them but it didn't get support. If Starmer bans them I'd bet the pressure will be on

[Ozyhibby]

There £67,000 wage is safe, it's the top up that's frozen so juniors still come out with almost 90k. Ministers are over 100k.

Think about half of msps have second jobs I'd read, Labour's Neil Findlay tried to put a motion to ban them but it didn't get support. If Starmer bans them I'd bet the pressure will be on

Think they’re safe then. Starmer won’t ban them.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Think they’re safe then. Starmer won’t ban them.


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If he backtracks they should do it themselves but its the turkeys voting for Christmas. They are paid enough to concentrate on the job they have.

Here's what Starmer said
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-59311123

[weecounty hibby]

If he backtracks they should do it themselves but its the turkeys voting for Christmas. They are paid enough to concentrate on the job they have.

Here's what Starmer said
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-59311123
It's another debate but I don't think they are paid enough. My boss is on a higher wage that MPs and her boss is most likely paid more than the PM. That is why the temptation is there to have 2nd, 3rd jobs that can then lead to real conflicts of interest. Pay them a much higher salary and ban 2nd jobs completely.

[Ozyhibby]

It's another debate but I don't think they are paid enough. My boss is on a higher wage that MPs and her boss is most likely paid more than the PM. That is why the temptation is there to have 2nd, 3rd jobs that can then lead to real conflicts of interest. Pay them a much higher salary and ban 2nd jobs completely.

I can live with that. I would also stop all money going to political parties and have them funded only from members fees and some state funding.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It's another debate but I don't think they are paid enough. My boss is on a higher wage that MPs and her boss is most likely paid more than the PM. That is why the temptation is there to have 2nd, 3rd jobs that can then lead to real conflicts of interest. Pay them a much higher salary and ban 2nd jobs completely.

The majority of these chancers aren't getting high paid jobs elsewhere. Half of them haven't had a real job and went into politics after some degree. Junior doctors get 27k and I know they rise up but everyone knows mps big bucks come when they leave the job as well.

[archie]

It's another debate but I don't think they are paid enough. My boss is on a higher wage that MPs and her boss is most likely paid more than the PM. That is why the temptation is there to have 2nd, 3rd jobs that can then lead to real conflicts of interest. Pay them a much higher salary and ban 2nd jobs completely.

What do you think would be a reasonable salary for an MP, MSP, Cabinett Secretary etc?

[weecounty hibby]

What do you think would be a reasonable salary for an MP, MSP, Cabinett Secretary etc?
No idea. But if we want them to stop being compromised by lobbying and their second jobs being a conflict of interest they should be paid more. Regardless of what we think of them they are the people who make the laws, decide on our wealth, health and futures, if we go to war etc. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. And often monkeys who will take other paid jobs to top up their salary because they can. And often these 2nd jobs are at odds with their main one

[weecounty hibby]

The majority of these chancers aren't getting high paid jobs elsewhere. Half of them haven't had a real job and went into politics after some degree. Junior doctors get 27k and I know they rise up but everyone knows mps big bucks come when they leave the job as well.

Sounds as if it's a pretty easy job. Why do t more people try it?

[Stairway 2 7]

Sounds as if it's a pretty easy job. Why do t more people try it?

They do their has never been a shortage there's hundreds on the wings for each party. Most other jobs don't have the perks either, 11k housing allowance, 50p per mile travel allowance, free gym, 10% of salary pension, 16 weeks a year holiday, subsidised meals, expenses account ect

[Ozyhibby]

They do their has never been a shortage there's hundreds on the wings for each party. Most other jobs don't have the perks either, 11k housing allowance, 50p per mile travel allowance, free gym, 10% of salary pension, 16 weeks a year holiday, subsidised meals, expenses account ect

Agree. We’ll never run out of people wanting to do that job.


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[Just_Jimmy]

What do you think would be a reasonable salary for an MP, MSP, Cabinett Secretary etc?The minimum wage. Watch it shoot up then.

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[AgentDaleCooper]

The minimum wage. Watch it shoot up then.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

or watch the number of second jobs taken by MSPs shoot up.

[He's here!]

It's a huge role road rail boats. Really surprising

Does anyone know if lorna Slater is still employed, hopefully not.


Anger grows at latest CalMac ferry disruption - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65122952)

Kevin Stewart appears to be the new transport minister. Don't envy him that role.

I think I read Slater had retained whatever role she was supposed to be performing.

[Mibbes Aye]

So, Humza and Kevin Stewart have left Health, Micheal Matheson is in and the directorate has been renamed ‘NHS Recovery’? 😀

[makaveli1875]

No idea. But if we want them to stop being compromised by lobbying and their second jobs being a conflict of interest they should be paid more. Regardless of what we think of them they are the people who make the laws, decide on our wealth, health and futures, if we go to war etc. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. And often monkeys who will take other paid jobs to top up their salary because they can. And often these 2nd jobs are at odds with their main one

We pay them a fortune and still get monkeys so might as well just give them peanuts

[Stairway 2 7]

Savanta shows independence not moved much in first poll post Humza

Savanta UK
@Savanta_UK

First IndyRef2 VI since Yousaf elected SNP leader

✅ Yes 45% (+1)
❎ No 47% (+1)
❓ Undec. 8% (-1)

w/o Undec.
✅ Yes 48% (-1)
❎ No 52% (+1)

1,009 Scottish adults, 28-31 March

(change from 15-17 Feb


Scottish Westminster VI

🎗️SNP 39% (-3)
🌹LAB 33% (+1)
🌳CON 19% (+2)
🔶LD 6% (=)
⬜️Other 4% (+1)

Holyrood Constituency
🎗️SNP 39% (-4)
🌹LAB 32% (+2)
🌳CON 19% (+2)
🔶LD 7% (-1)
⬜️Other 3% (+1)

Holyrood list
🎗️SNP 33% (+1)
🌹LAB 30% (+3)
🌳CON 18% (+2)
🌍Green 10% (-4)
🔶LD 7% (-2)
⬜️Other 2% (=)

[Stairway 2 7]

Third Westminster poll in a row showing a big swing to Labour. Only a year and a half, the direction has to change

@ElectionMapsUK
My Seat Estimate:

SNP: 25 (-23)
LAB: 24 (+23)
LDM: 5 (+1)
CON: 5 (-1)

Changes w/ GE2019

[marinello59]

So, Humza and Kevin Stewart have left Health, Micheal Matheson is in and the directorate has been renamed ‘NHS Recovery’? 😀

Good grief, talk about setting yourself up for ridicule. :greengrin

[AgentDaleCooper]

Third Westminster poll in a row showing a big swing to Labour. Only a year and a half, the direction has to change

@ElectionMapsUK
My Seat Estimate:

SNP: 25 (-23)
LAB: 24 (+23)
LDM: 5 (+1)
CON: 5 (-1)

Changes w/ GE2019

I'd expect a big swing towards labour in the GE just to try to get rid of the Tories - with independence looking like it might be a long term rather than short/medium term prospect, folk will probably want big changes ASAP, given the damage over a decade of Tory government has done. This could well be pretty disastrous going forward for the SNP, as if Labour are anything other than immediately awful, that'll probably reflect well on the Scottish wing of the party. In an ideal world, we'd have the Tories out in Westminster and a massive pro Indy supermajority in Holyrood, but I can't see that being very likely.

[Just_Jimmy]

or watch the number of second jobs taken by MSPs shoot up.I was being flippant but in reality what should happen, is they should be held to the same standards certain other public servants are.

No second jobs
No business agreements that are a conflict of interest
Vetting
Full disclosure

Anything that falls below that should be investigated by an independent body

Criminal charges for misconduct in a public office should follow anyone who breaks the rules.

It's time to clean up politics across the board. They work for us, not us for them.


They're paid enough right now without second jobs etc. Our other public servants see year on year pay cuts on a much smaller basic wage than most MPs and MSPs.

It's public service, nothing more or less. Thousands of people do it without the ability to implicate change for the better. They have a privileged position. Its time they acted like it.

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[marinello59]

I’ve just noticed Fitzpatrick is part of the new team. Yousaf is trolling us now. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Sunday Heralds main headline tomorrow is 15 rebel Kate forbes backing MSPs are going to release rival policy papers. Be interested to see the detail

https://mobile.twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1642271426911535106

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/indigofast/status/1642149408048283649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/holyrood-sources/id1673972192?i=1000606895881

A link to full interview with Kate Forbes.
Holyrood Sources probably the best of the Scottish political podcasts.


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[makaveli1875]

Humza vs lettuce , who lasts longer ? Iv stuck a tenner on the lettuce

[Ozyhibby]

Really good interview. She spells out clearly why she couldn’t take rural job and that she wanted to stay in finance job.


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[archie]

Really good interview. She spells out clearly why she couldn’t take rural job and that she wanted to stay in finance job.


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So the spin about her wanting a better work life balance was, to adopt the prevailing tone here, lies?

[Ozyhibby]

So the spin about her wanting a better work life balance was, to adopt the prevailing tone here, lies?

I never believed it. She had just gone for the FM gig. That doesn’t indicate a concern over work life balance.


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[archie]

I never believed it. She had just gone for the FM gig. That doesn’t indicate a concern over work life balance.


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So the SNP lied?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23427971.humza-yousaf-faces-15-rebel-snp-msps-prepared-challenge-government/


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[Skol]

So the SNP lied?

Pretty much, and on something that is so obvious as well. You wonder why they would bother

[marinello59]

Pretty much, and on something that is so obvious as well. You wonder why they would bother

They didn’t want their 120k strong membership to think Yousaf was settling scores rather than doing what was best for the country?

[He's here!]

They didn’t want their 120k strong membership to think Yousaf was settling scores rather than doing what was best for the country?

I imagine she's just trying to make sure she comes across as an all-round reasonable sort bearing in mind she might stand again one day if Yousaf proves to be a disaster. She told him 'where to stick' the demotion in private according to her allies.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/snp-leadership-candidate-kate-forbes-to-do-heavy-thinking-over-policy-while-out-of-scottish-government


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[Mibbes Aye]

So, I'm going to paraphrase a bit here, but Humza's first couple of acts in office were to alienate nearly half his parrty with his ttreatment of Forbes; and then appoint Shona Robison as deputy FM and Finance Secretary?

And Robison's first act was to lie about why Forbes was out the Cabinet?

Oh, and in his ministerial team Humza then picked all his own supporters bar one- so 27 out of 28 had backed him?

And he scrapped the post of Minister for Social Security but appointed a Minister for Independence?

What happens next then?

Do Mike Russell and John Swinney appear in leotards and do a flying trapeze? Does Nicola Sturgeon go round a Wall of Death on a mini motorcycle?

[WeeRussell]

What happens next then?

Do Mike Russell and John Swinney appear in leotards and do a flying trapeze? Does Nicola Sturgeon go round a Wall of Death on a mini motorcycle?

I wouldn’t have thought so.

[Kato]

I wouldn’t have thought so.It would be good if our politicians had a talent though. A wee song, a magic trick or two. Just to brighten up a drab calling. Ditto the royals. They should get trained as jugglers or fire eaters, boring gits.

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[Smartie]

It would be good if our politicians had a talent though. A wee song, a magic trick or two. Just to brighten up a drab calling. Ditto the royals. They should get trained as jugglers or fire eaters, boring gits.

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Young Prince Edward was on the right track with that “It’s a Royal Knockout” malarkey.

[Kato]

Young Prince Edward was on the right track with that “It’s a Royal Knockout” malarkey.I said "talent".

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[Mibbes Aye]

I wouldn’t have thought so.

That's a shame, it would have created a distraction from the ****show at Bute House :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

That's a shame, it would have created a distraction from the ****show at Bute House :greengrin

Lucky we have such stability elsewhere.[emoji106]


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[Berwickhibby]

Lucky we have such stability elsewhere.[emoji106]


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And the standard SNP response arrives….look at them down there….don’t look at us ��

[Kato]

And the standard SNP response arrives….look at them down there….don’t look at us ��There is a difference between playing the cards you are dealt and being the house dealer, no?

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[archie]

There is a difference between playing the cards you are dealt and being the house dealer, no?

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Yes, but you can play the hand you are dealt with varying degrees of success.

[WeeRussell]

Yes, but you can play the hand you are dealt with varying degrees of success.

That’s true. You’d have more chance if you got rid of the dodgy dealer and ran the game yourself though.

[He's here!]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/04/snp-mp-karen-adam-humza-yousaf-competence-racist/

It's 'racist' to criticise Yousaf apparently.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/04/snp-mp-karen-adam-humza-yousaf-competence-racist/

It's 'racist' to criticise Yousaf apparently.

Adam sounds like a bampot:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5579743/karen-adam-gender-reform/

That’s not what she actually said, though. She said he’s been unfairly criticised because of his skin colour. If you have a swatch at social media, you’ll see that’s not such a wild take.


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[WeeRussell]

That’s not what she actually said, though.
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I assumed that would be the case when they allowed the headline to be seen but the article hidden behind a paywall. Presumably the poster intended the same thing or forgot to actually read an article before sharing it.. again.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I assumed that would be the case when they allowed the headline to be seen but the article hidden behind a paywall. Presumably the poster intended the same thing or forgot to actually read an article before sharing it.. again.

You only need to read the first few lines of the article to see that’s not what she said, which is not behind a paywall. Right wing click bait designed to cause outrage.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Whilst I'm sure there has been loads of racist pish, the vast majority aren't calling him useless due to his skin colour

"The racist tropes used about him have been utterly disgusting,” she said. “I’m not opposed to people being scrutinised, particularly in public roles, but the level of racism and the sheer ignorance was astounding.

“Just to be clear, calling somebody lazy who clearly isn’t, who has had some of the hardest jobs in government and has been successful in many ways in those remits, is racism.”

“The terminology is used by racists to smear ethnic minorities all the time – ‘lazy’ or ‘useless’.”

[Stairway 2 7]

Karen Adam in the papers today for wrongly trying to get a bikini waxing salon done for hate crimes 😆

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5579743/karen-adam-gender-reform/

[He's here!]

Karen Adam in the papers today for wrongly trying to get a bikini waxing salon done for hate crimes 😆

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5579743/karen-adam-gender-reform/

Yep, she got booked in for a 'malicious' bikini wax because she backed the GRR...that's the obvious conclusion anyone would jump to. What a bampot.

[Santa Cruz]

Yep, she got booked in for a 'malicious' bikini wax because she backed the GRR...that's the obvious conclusion anyone would jump to. What a bampot.

Think Alex Salmond will stand for election in this seat at the next election? He might as well, after reading that article I'd say he has a good chance there.

[He's here!]

Think Alex Salmond will stand for election in this seat at the next election? He might as well, after reading that article I'd say he has a good chance there.

Alba will be hoping to capitalise on the SNP in-fighting but whether that will translate to seats is debatable.

I'm wondering if Adam apologised to the beauty salon client with a similar name who got questioned by the police! It doesn't appear so.

[Stairway 2 7]

Think Emily Maitlis smells s%/×

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1644000421407600640

[grunt]

Think Emily Maitlis smells s%/×

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1644000421407600640

I think she - and the rest of the News Agents team - are generally very good, but like so many London based journalists she has a huge blind spot when it comes to Scottish politics. She was poor here, IMO.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think she - and the rest of the News Agents team - are generally very good, but like so many London based journalists she has a huge blind spot when it comes to Scottish politics. She was poor here, IMO.

I wouldn't say you're views are quite subjective, many would say she's spot on I'd bet

[grunt]

I wouldn't say you're views are quite subjective, many would say she's spot on I'd bet

No idea.

[overdrive]

Yep, she got booked in for a 'malicious' bikini wax because she backed the GRR...that's the obvious conclusion anyone would jump to. What a bampot.

What a waste of police time.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I think she - and the rest of the News Agents team - are generally very good, but like so many London based journalists she has a huge blind spot when it comes to Scottish politics. She was poor here, IMO.

I think it was a decent interview, in so far as that she did her upmost to hold the leader of the SNP in Westminster to account for what's going on in his party and he did a pretty decent job of answering her questions IMO.

[Stairway 2 7]

Inside footage of the picking of Humzas cabinet 😆

https://mobile.twitter.com/shiny02/status/1643902741935190018

[marinello59]

Inside footage of the picking of Humzas cabinet 😆

https://mobile.twitter.com/shiny02/status/1643902741935190018

:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Snp mp calls for election re run

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-urged-bin-ballot-senior-29664765

Senior SNP MP calls for leadership re-run after claims Peter Murrell shortened race
Angus MacNeil says the leadership contest should be done again, believing the timing of Murrell's arrest compromised its legitimacy