Congestion charges and low emission zones

[Edina Street]

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

[James310]

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-travel-parking/lez-penalty-charges#:~:text=Cars%2C%20vans%20and%20light%20goo ds,it%20increases%20to%20%C2%A3240.

The initial penalty charge is £60.
If the penalty is not paid within 28 days, the second time that vehicle enters the LEZ within 90 days, the penalty doubles to £120.
If the vehicle enters a third time within the same 90 days, it increases to £240.
The penalty will increase to £480 for a fourth time within the same 90 days.
It will not be increased for a fifth time the vehicle enters the LEZ.

[JeMeSouviens]

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.


Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

[Edina Street]

Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

[JeMeSouviens]

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

[Bristolhibby]

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

[Edina Street]

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

[Edina Street]

As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

So we now have zones in Bristol and Bath? That's good to know all the different locations these things are popping up. First thing I can look forward to doing when I get home from my journies is getting on my computer and paying for all those low emission charges I might have passed through. How much is the charge per day where you are at?

[JeMeSouviens]

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

[neil7908]

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

[Berwickhibby]

I am not financially in a position to buy a new van and there is no dispensation for businesses …I just will have to stop accepting events in Central Edinburgh come June next year.

[Gatecrasher]

I get your frustration but whether it deals with the climate issue or not the fact is there are too many vehicles on the road at the moment and the only way people will begin to leave the car/van at home is if it becomes too expensive to justify not taking public transport. I love driving and my car but every street is clogged with vehicles now and I really think it's got worse since the pandemic, which I feel was a wasted opportunity to reset some of the bad habits we had prior.

These LEZ's may be a money making opportunity but they are a policy with a good intention, anyway if you think that's bad just wait until you need to pay £500 just to park at your work.

[Ozyhibby]

I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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[Edina Street]

You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

[Edina Street]

I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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But it is not going to stop larger heavier vehicles from using the road. Removals companies are still going to be going in and out of the area. Goods are still going to get delivered to all the shops and supermarkets. People are still going to want their ebay items and antiques delivering to their doorsteps. The council knows this already, they have London to use as an example as all this has been in place in London for years now, and London is still a congested and polluted hellhole. The fact is, if you're a buisness you're just supposed to put the fees on to the customer. That is the very person that voted it in. This is why I am of the opinion that it is just a money making scheme.

[pollution]

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.


' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

[Edina Street]

' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

That's also true actually. I am also from Edinburgh and I do not recall getting a vote on this matter.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

[Stairway 2 7]

The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

It's a snp/labour policy backed by the greens, apposed by the tories

[neil7908]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

[Edina Street]

Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?

P.S

Whilst I am from Edinburgh, and live in Edinburgh, my buisness is partly based in London, so apologies for using the term "we".

[Moulin Yarns]

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

[Edina Street]

I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMG

[speedy_gonzales]

One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?



Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

[Edina Street]

Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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[Stairway 2 7]

Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

I'd doubt it. Is he doing it as regular now? If so it's no a good advert for the benefits of cycling, as he's still bigger than the beatles

[Just Alf]

This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMGThat last bit about auto accounts is a really good one... surely they should be considering a single payment facility to cover all areas?..... or 2/3 if they need to.split it by council areas e.g COSLA councils under one umbrella.

[Gatecrasher]

Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

[danhibees1875]

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.

[Ged]

There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

[Moulin Yarns]

Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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1st June, residents get to 1st June 2024

[Edina Street]

There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

Thanks for that link. That might come in handy for me in the near future. However I suspect you're right, I might have to wait until scientists have improved the distances of how far electric vehicles can travel.

[JeMeSouviens]

I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.

IT's NO MA FAULT! :grr:


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/emissions-of-air-pollutants/emissions-of-air-pollutants-in-the-uk-nitrogen-oxides-nox


Nitrogen oxides (NOx) are a group of gases that are mainly formed during the combustion of fossil fuels. The dominant portion of these gases is nitric oxide (NO). However, NO can react with other gases in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which is harmful to health. These reactions take place very quickly and are reversible, so the two gases are referred to together as NOx.

In the most recent annual air quality assessment (for 2020), the UK was non-compliant with the limit value placed on the annual mean NO2 concentration at a small number of roadside locations in urban areas. A large reduction in road traffic activity in 2020 following the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic contributed to a substantial reduction in average roadside NO2 concentrations in 2020 compared to previous years. It has been estimated that on average 68 per cent of roadside NOx concentrations originated from road transport emissions in 2020.

Short-term exposure to concentrations of NO2 can cause inflammation of the airways and increase susceptibility to respiratory infections and to allergens. NO2 can exacerbate the symptoms of those already suffering from lung or heart conditions. In addition, NOx can cause changes to the environment. Deposition of Nitrogen to the environment both directly as a gas (dry deposition) and in precipitation (wet deposition) can change soil chemistry and affect biodiversity in sensitive habitats.

Nitrogen oxides are also precursors for the formation of ozone. Ozone is a gas which is also damaging to human health and can trigger inflammation of the respiratory tract, eyes, nose and throat as well as asthma attacks. Moreover, ozone can have adverse effects on the environment through oxidative damage to vegetation including crops.

[grunt]

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.
Indeed. Here he is providing invaluable input to the discussions at COP26 in Glasgow.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaWoQveWIAMpEBb?format=jpg&name=medium

[JeMeSouviens]

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

If the inside chatter of political gossip is true, it's Carrie Antoinette that's the environmentalist and he does what he's telt. tbh, I doubt he has an actual principled position on anything other than his own aggrandisement.

[danhibees1875]

IT's NO MA FAULT! :grr:


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/emissions-of-air-pollutants/emissions-of-air-pollutants-in-the-uk-nitrogen-oxides-nox

Thanks. :aok:

Quite a significant jump in the numbers for a petrol motor between euro 3 and 4!

I'm not sure how many pre-05 cars are still going about right enough.

[Edina Street]

Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3uOCzblpQk

[lapsedhibee]

Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3uOCzblpQk

Take note and do what? Draft in a whole lot more polis?

[Ozyhibby]

Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


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[Edina Street]

Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


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Yeah, idiots are tearing down the cameras, whilst smart London traders are getting the train upto Scotland, buying a ULEZ compliant car in Scotland for £13,000, then driving it down the A1 and M1 and selling it for £15,000 in London that evening. I actually know a Londoner that is making a lot of money doing this. But he says that it will not go on forever. I should imagine the closer we come to June in Edinburgh, the more it will cost to purchase a compliant vehicle in our area, and we may even have a few smart traders that make a lot of money out of this simply by travelling to other areas where compliant vehicles are not in such high demand.

I am not sure I am 100% impressed with this though. There must be something wrong when wideboys are able to get rich quick out of council by-laws. Sounds like a cash cow to me.

[hibee]

My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe a catalyst. 1 in 5 new cars in August fully electric

https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4124005/selling-hot-cakes-cars-sold-august-electric

[greenginger]

My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

I just checked my other car, a 2002 convertible Peugeot , which was noted previously as non compliant for ULEZ now has a compliant tick on it.

Thanks for your investigation efforts.

[wookie70]

I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

[Ozyhibby]

I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


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[Edina Street]

As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something else that will happen here to, like what is happening in London right now, is that the LEZ will be expanded to cover the whole of Edinburgh, and the requirements for compliance will become stricter and stricter.

The people of Greater London are currently up in arms about the expansion of the ULEZ being spread out across the Suburbs all the way to the M25, and are taking to the streets.

They were ok with it when it was just Central London however, just like we currently are.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?

[Edina Street]

Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?



The ULEZ standards are:



Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles (L category)
Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles.
Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles.



That only tells half the story though:

Upto £400 per day for Lorries.

Also, it is untrue that you get 24 hours for your £400, as it operates from midnight. This puts lorries into "real" trouble, as a lot of them importing and exporting goods in and out of London do so late at night, as getting in and out of London during peak times before their tachographs expire is not always possible, so Lorries could actually face up to £800 for one single trip. Perhaps we have overestimated how rich haulage firms are, because many haulage firms are already taking a huge risk by not paying the charges, and instead going to court, and it is either win in court, or their haulage firm will need to close.

This is also true for cars. They advertise £12.50 per day. But this is only for day shift workers. For nightshift workers, such as NHS workers, it is actually £25 per day.

Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads. And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

If they had any common sense they would allow a person 24hrs from the moment they enter the zone.
In fact, if they had any common sense, they would have launched a Grandfather scheme in 2015, whereby everyone would be allowed to drive their cars for as long as they wish, but when they decide to change their car, they must change it to a compliant car. If they had done this, most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.

[speedy_gonzales]

Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.

As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.



And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

[Edina Street]

As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.



Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/environment/london-tube-air-pollution-cair-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.

[Just Alf]

A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/environment/london-tube-air-pollution-cair-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

[Ozyhibby]

Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


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[Moulin Yarns]

most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.


According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-transport-today/news/73299/over-90-cars-in-outer-london-now-meet-the-ulez-standards-data-reveals/

[Just Alf]

Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAh... I do remember it being dusty right enough!

[grunt]

However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.
Oh really?

[Edina Street]

[/LIST]

According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-transport-today/news/73299/over-90-cars-in-outer-london-now-meet-the-ulez-standards-data-reveals/

You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security. So it sounds like Sadiq Khan himself is worried that he may have made some enemies that have resources which stretch beyond that of those in the lowest uncompliant 10%. The level of security he is currently employing would suggest he fears that he could have made enemies that can afford guns, or even afford to pay for assassinations.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

Here is an example of a Hotel owner with a compliant car whom is against ULEZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lISP1U4u-ko&lc=Ugw0a-a5WGFlrwrUtmV4AaABAg.9uGyCU5JbQ19uHeQF1Lckr

[Ozyhibby]

You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant land-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-hurts-poorest-most#:~:text=From%20Lagos%20and%20Lahore%20to,and% 20air%20quality%20is%20better.


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[Edina Street]

The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-hurts-poorest-most#:~:text=From%20Lagos%20and%20Lahore%20to,and% 20air%20quality%20is%20better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, so why is he not banning Petrol and Diesel vehicles completely all over London? Why is it ok to pollute so long as you pay £12.50? (Or £400 if you are a 40 tonne lorry). Why is it ok to pollute and just have less Asthma sufferers rather than no Asthma sufferers?

Like other ULEZ campaigners in London, I personally either want to see a grandfather scheme put in place, or a complete ban on Petrol and Diesel vehicles. We all dance and go down together for the betterment of society at large. But the 90% don't appear to like this idea. What i don't want to see is anyone make Billions of pounds out of allowing people to die.

At least in Scotland it is a £60 fine which only increases every time you enter the zone, so that pretty much is as good as a blanket ban on non compliant vehicles, and they can't be accused of it just being a cash-cow, and it does not really effect me that much anymore as I have enough money saved up to buy a compliant van without even requiring finance. This was my initial main gripe with the LEZ in the first place, I feared that it would force me to have to turn my back on my philosophy of responsible living, which is to always stay out of debt, and pay everything upfront. Fortunately after a good year and no cruises, I am now in that position where I can afford a compliant van and remain out of the clutches of bankers and lenders having anything over me.

However I will watch this page with interest over the next few years and see if people from Edinburgh and Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen, are as happy when they first hear that the council are planning to extend the zone over the entire city with stricter regulations.

[lapsedhibee]

But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security.

Complete mystery to me why Johnson, a white racist, didn't receive death threats from white racists. :dunno:

[Stairway 2 7]

Khan has been using a armoured car for 4 years it's provided by police. Boris used the same one. Its nothing to do with would be Robin Hood super assassin groups, that's just Facebook facts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/400k-bulletproof-range-rover-used-19927900.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8323259/amp/Sadiq-Khan-catches-chauffeur-driven-ride-work-luxury-Range-Rover.html

I don't like that this policy effect overwhelmingly poorer people. I'd like a fairer grant like the 7.5k for heatpumps, so people could replace their cars. I'm all for green policies and would go further with banning cars at certain times in the city

[Stairway 2 7]

Complete mystery to me why Johnson, a white racist, didn't receive death threats from white racists. :dunno:

Don't believe GB news rehashes. Khan didn't buy a car it's a police vehicle, boris used one too. Daily Mail tried it too saying the bullet proof car Khan has been provided will be exempt from charges. They don't mention that's because it meets omission standards to be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12447855/amp/Sadiq-Khan-wont-pay-ULEZ-charge-London-mayors-taxpayer-funded-luxury-2020-Range-Rover-exempt-12-50-day-fee.html

[Edina Street]

Oh really?

I am not a Scientist, I am just getting my information from the hundreds of YouTube videos currently available on the internet during this period when the topic is hottest.

According to this researcher here, air pollution went from 2.3 at ground level, to 313.50 at underground level.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/84vXwaNO5qY

Does this mean that Electric vehicles might not be as healthy as we think?

[lapsedhibee]

Don't believe GB news rehashes. Khan didn't buy a car it's a police vehicle, boris used one too. Daily Mail tried it too saying the bullet proof car Khan has been provided will be exempt from charges. They don't mention that's because it meets omission standards to be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12447855/amp/Sadiq-Khan-wont-pay-ULEZ-charge-London-mayors-taxpayer-funded-luxury-2020-Range-Rover-exempt-12-50-day-fee.html

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

[Stairway 2 7]

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

I'm sure he has but as you say nowt to do with ULEZ and boris also used the same vehicle anyway

[Edina Street]

Sadiq Khan spent an insane amount of taxpayers money to get his favourite Science institution to file a report on car pollution. The report he received suited his agenda. However another department of the same institution tested this theory, and came to the conclusion that in actual fact the ULEZ scheme would be useless. Sadiq Khan tried to bribe the institution with yet more insane amounts of taxpayers money to change the wording, but the institution refused. So what did Sadiq Khan do? He tore up the report from the Scientists of this institution that said the ULEZ scheme would not save lives, and proceeded with the debunked report from the same institution which said the ULEZ would save lives.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POTfXLsfn-c

Now whether or not the Scientists of this institution are correct or incorrect is not my point. My point is that the Scientific institution which Sadiq Khan is using as proof of his cause, do not actually share the views Sadiq Khan is citing.

[Edina Street]

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

Maybe it is because some believe him to be a racist? Such as recently when a picture of a White family appeared on his Website under the headline, "White people do not represent Londoners".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O-Wjz_JrHc

[Ozyhibby]

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


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[lapsedhibee]

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?



Concrete's in the news. It's only natural that Mike Graham's being consulted for his expertise.

[Kato]

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'd believe the readings from my tea leaves before that lot.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Edina Street]

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It has all been written in MSM. But those are in written form.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-ulez-city-hall-frank-kelly-london-b2396312.html

[Edina Street]

"I know nothing"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSkSuukO6SU

[lapsedhibee]

It has all been written in MSM. But those are in written form.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-ulez-city-hall-frank-kelly-london-b2396312.html

I can't quite see what is the main point you're making in this thread.
Is it that (a) cars don't pollute (b) old cars don't pollute more than new cars (c) Khan is corrupt (d) if two scientists disagree one of them is corrupt?

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.

Farage and The Daily Telegraph are full of ****.

[Moulin Yarns]

Khan has been using a armoured car for 4 years it's provided by police. Boris used the same one. Its nothing to do with would be Robin Hood super assassin groups, that's just Facebook facts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/400k-bulletproof-range-rover-used-19927900.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8323259/amp/Sadiq-Khan-catches-chauffeur-driven-ride-work-luxury-Range-Rover.html

I don't like that this policy effect overwhelmingly poorer people. I'd like a fairer grant like the 7.5k for heatpumps, so people could replace their cars. I'm all for green policies and would go further with banning cars at certain times in the city

The UK government stopped the ev grants, but you can get an interest free loan in Scotland.


https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

[hibee]

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.


I think the point is the poor people who don’t have cars and can’t afford to live in the nice clean Ulez zones pay with their lives and die early, if you read the linked unep article it’s not really about the UK.

[Edina Street]

I can't quite see what is the main point you're making in this thread.
Is it that (a) cars don't pollute (b) old cars don't pollute more than new cars (c) Khan is corrupt (d) if two scientists disagree one of them is corrupt?

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.

Farage and The Daily Telegraph are full of ****.

I am not making any point. I never form concrete opinions and am always changing my opinions with every new bit of information. I am simply sharing what I am reading or watching, and all sides of the argument should be considered.

I think I might be bordering upon opposing the current ULEZ schemes however, especially the one in London. I am more supportive of the Scottish ones as those are not cash grabs, however I am looking forward to seeing how much consensus changes in Scotland should our councils decide to expand the schemes city wide any time in the next few years.

I doubt citizens in Muirhouse, Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Pilton, Drylaw would be quite so happy to wake up tomorrow to find out it is £60 to turn their ignition key on, as those in the City Centre appear to be.

[lapsedhibee]

I think the point is the poor people who don’t have cars and can’t afford to live in the nice clean Ulez zones pay with their lives and die early, if you read the linked article it’s not really about the UK.

Yes I get that, I'm objecting to the idea that ULEZ charging is unfair on the poorest people.

[Edina Street]

Yes I get that, I'm objecting to the idea that ULEZ charging is unfair on the poorest people.

Our poorest people are currently living in hotels such as the once posh Almond House Lodge in Silverknowes. The Firth of Forth is their back garden and Silverknowes beach their place for recreation. Car pollution does not exist here.
https://theferret.scot/meet-the-people-existing-in-edinburgh-homeless-hostels/

Even illegal immigrants are getting put up in four star hotels.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10380855/Migrants-staying-four-star-hotel-rooms-125-night-British-taxpayer.html

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

Also, how much pollution does Essex, Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Kent, get compared to Central London? Because all those areas out in the sticks, as Ronnie and Reggie would have referred to them as being, are also effected by the ULEZ expansion.

It takes not much research whatsoever to conclude that the local residents of those areas are arguing "but we don't have pollution out here".

[Ozyhibby]

Our poorest people are currently living in hotels such as the once posh Almond House Lodge in Silverknowes. The Firth of Forth is their back garden and Silverknowes beach their place for recreation. Car pollution does not exist here.
https://theferret.scot/meet-the-people-existing-in-edinburgh-homeless-hostels/

Even illegal immigrants are getting put up in four star hotels.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10380855/Migrants-staying-four-star-hotel-rooms-125-night-British-taxpayer.html

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

Also, how much pollution does Essex, Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Kent, get compared to Central London? Because all those areas out in the sticks, as Ronnie and Reggie would have referred to them as being, are also effected by the ULEZ expansion.

It takes not much research whatsoever to conclude that the local residents of those areas are arguing "but we don't have pollution out here".

Almond house 4 or 5 star?[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

No. But I was so envious of what I read in your link about the Almond House Lodge that I'm now planning on going to France, which I could afford, crossing the channel in a small boat and claiming asylum. If I see Farage on the beach should I give him your regards?

[Stairway 2 7]

The UK government stopped the ev grants, but you can get an interest free loan in Scotland.


https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

It's disproportionately the poorest 20% that have the old non compliant cars. 20% of the uk are living in poverty. They will be finding it hard to heat and eat right now. A 5 figure loan for a used car is a dream to most, even if they passed the credit check. Its a great deal for us that are very fortunate to be able to afford to buy a car in this climate

[Edina Street]

It's disproportionately the poorest 20% that have the old non compliant cars. 20% of the uk are living in poverty. They will be finding it hard to heat and eat right now. A 5 figure loan for a used car is a dream to most, even if they passed the credit check. Its a great deal for us that are very fortunate to be able to afford to buy a car in this climate

Exactly! That is my point. It is not all about how fortunate we are, but what about those less fortunate than us!

[Edina Street]

With the amount of Haulage firms not paying their ULEZ charges in London just now, and instead taking their chances in court, which will mean bankrupcy for them should they lose their court cases, how on earth is London going to get their imports and exports? I assume that Sadiq Khan must have already thought of this? There obviously must be some International Giant Haulage Corporation ready to step in and replace the local Hauliers with fleets of compliant lorries with Green coloured trees sketched on the sides. I just hope this corporation's name is something less cheesy than Deliveroo.

Apparently Eddie Stobart is also up in arms, with many haulage firms threatening strike action.
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/2017/04/25/ultra-low-emission-zone-see-hauliers-turn-backs-london/

[Hibrandenburg]

I am not a Scientist, I am just getting my information from the hundreds of YouTube videos currently available on the internet during this period when the topic is hottest.

According to this researcher here, air pollution went from 2.3 at ground level, to 313.50 at underground level.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/84vXwaNO5qY

Does this mean that Electric vehicles might not be as healthy as we think?

I'm not a scientist either but without studying the University of YouTube, I'd take a stab in the dark and say that there is more air pollution in the underground because pollutants and fine particles are heavier than air and with the help of gravity they will effectively be sucked into the underground which is a confined space and thus increasing the pollution density.

[Moulin Yarns]

With the amount of Haulage firms not paying their ULEZ charges in London just now, and instead taking their chances in court, which will mean bankrupcy for them should they lose their court cases, how on earth is London going to get their imports and exports? I assume that Sadiq Khan must have already thought of this? There obviously must be some International Giant Haulage Corporation ready to step in and replace the local Hauliers with fleets of compliant lorries with Green coloured trees sketched on the sides. I just hope this corporation's name is something less cheesy than Deliveroo.

Apparently Eddie Stobart is also up in arms, with many haulage firms threatening strike action.
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/2017/04/25/ultra-low-emission-zone-see-hauliers-turn-backs-london/

https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products/attributes/electrification.html?cid=sep-487151&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qoaCYd7A3Ebkbvmw-15CSNP44mYH2MeIFEr0QKpZNkk2TEBgK7S3QaAiLOEALw_wcB


https://forms.mbtrucks.co.uk/request-a-callback-eactros?mtm_campaign=eActros%20PPC%20campaign&mtm_source=PPC&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=electric%20lorry&hsa_kw=electric%20lorry&hsa_tgt=kwd-343903183165&hsa_ver=3&hsa_grp=149198683631&hsa_mt=p&hsa_ad=657682519602&hsa_acc=8086597668&hsa_cam=19721794463&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_src=g&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qOJoZxYBUbAH5asqQlJAizcuf-1Ld6pv-sLvQe8DUl6WM9K234xlQaAn2HEALw_wcB



https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65812980.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16940165106254&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com


It's almost like someone has already thought of it 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products/attributes/electrification.html?cid=sep-487151&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qoaCYd7A3Ebkbvmw-15CSNP44mYH2MeIFEr0QKpZNkk2TEBgK7S3QaAiLOEALw_wcB


https://forms.mbtrucks.co.uk/request-a-callback-eactros?mtm_campaign=eActros%20PPC%20campaign&mtm_source=PPC&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=electric%20lorry&hsa_kw=electric%20lorry&hsa_tgt=kwd-343903183165&hsa_ver=3&hsa_grp=149198683631&hsa_mt=p&hsa_ad=657682519602&hsa_acc=8086597668&hsa_cam=19721794463&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_src=g&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qOJoZxYBUbAH5asqQlJAizcuf-1Ld6pv-sLvQe8DUl6WM9K234xlQaAn2HEALw_wcB



https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65812980.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16940165106254&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com


It's almost like someone has already thought of it 😂

First one says 150 mile range with a 65t load. Not there yet.

I'd do what other cities that have banned cars are doing. Haulage hubs on outskirts then transported by electric cargo bikes, this could be replicated with electric van if allowing green vehicles though

[grunt]

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

[Edina Street]

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.

[grunt]

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.
Think for yourself.

[Jack]

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

To be fair it was the University of YouTube graduates that kept us right during the pandemic.

[Kato]

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/controversial-edinburgh-car-free-zone-27686132#google_vignette


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1701898524315541564?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/one-year-good-move-brussels-city-25-less-car-traffic-and-36-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

[Ozyhibby]

Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/one-year-good-move-brussels-city-25-less-car-traffic-and-36-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

Yeh, but that could never work here.[emoji849]


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[Edina Street]

I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

[Moulin Yarns]

I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

[Edina Street]

Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/132399-is-sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-supported-by-science-or-not/

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/132399-is-sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-supported-by-science-or-not/

Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

[Edina Street]

Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

Interesting. Feel free to present the findings of your own research. Or don't, if you don't want to.

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting. Feel free to present the findings of your own research. Or don't, if you don't want to.

As expected. Nothing to back up your case. I'll take whatever you say with a bucket of salt because you can't provide any evidence that confirms your point of view.

[Edina Street]

As expected. Nothing to back up your case. I'll take whatever you say with a bucket of salt because you can't provide any evidence that confirms your point of view.

My only real point of view is that the ULEZ in its current guise is a cash cow. Far better would have been a Grandfathering scheme to make it easier for poorer people to acquire better cars. Failing that, a complete ban on polluting vehicles, so that everyone with a polluting vehicle is affected, rather than just a minority. Charging £12.50 is not the answer, that is just a cash grab.

Anything else, I do not present as fact anyway, it is very much up for debate, so take it with a pinch of salt by all means.

If you think I am a climate change denialist or global warming denialist or car pollution denialist then you have read my argument wrong. I am actually very supportive of a very strict car pollution scheme. I merely think that the solution should either effect all motorists, or no motorists. I am in favour of everyone with a polluting vehicle having to upgrade tomorrow, regardless of what EURO it is, or what age it is. Most people should be ok with this, because it is 2023, and bank loans for tens of thousands of pounds can be obtained in 1 minute through online banking. I obtained one this morning, and seriously, it took 90 seconds max!

[grunt]

I am in favour of everyone with a polluting vehicle having to upgrade tomorrow, regardless of what EURO it is, or what age it is. Most people should be ok with this, because it is 2023, and bank loans for tens of thousands of pounds can be obtained in 1 minute through online banking. I obtained one this morning, and seriously, it took 90 seconds max!
Ok.

[Edina Street]

Ok.

Well if we are concerned about car pollution then surely a brand spanking new Hybrid should be the minimum requirement. Should be compulsory part exchange on a yearly basis until long distance electricity is a possiblity. Why should it be considered any better to drive a polluting 2020 Diesel on the road, than a 2015? If car pollution is killing people then only the strictest measures should do. Total national ban on anyone with less than a 2023 Hybrid, and less of this £12.50 to kill nonsense.

[RyeSloan]

Well if we are concerned about car pollution then surely a brand spanking new Hybrid should be the minimum requirement. Should be compulsory part exchange on a yearly basis until long distance electricity is a possiblity. Why should it be considered any better to drive a polluting 2020 Diesel on the road, than a 2015? If car pollution is killing people then only the strictest measures should do. Total national ban on anyone with less than a 2023 Hybrid, and less of this £12.50 to kill nonsense.

Hyperbole is rarely useful when trying to get a point across.

The discussion around why a huge 4x4 or a super car that does 10mpg is compliant while an slightly too old Ford fiesta is not is certainly a valid one. But I’d suggest the above is probably not the best way of having said discussion.

To some degree you have to start somewhere and you have to use some sort of measure. And doing an even imperfect something is often better than doing nothing.

These schemes are changing behaviours and literally driving some of the dirtiest vehicles out of town…I struggle to argue against that concept despite agreeing that some of the application of it might be flawed or has unintended consequences or indeed effects some more than others.

Just because that may be true doesn’t mean it shouldn’t still be done.

[Edina Street]

Hyperbole is rarely useful when trying to get a point across.

The discussion around why a huge 4x4 or a super car that does 10mpg is compliant while an slightly too old Ford fiesta is not is certainly a valid one. But I’d suggest the above is probably not the best way of having said discussion.

To some degree you have to start somewhere and you have to use some sort of measure. And doing an even imperfect something is often better than doing nothing.

These schemes are changing behaviours and literally driving some of the dirtiest vehicles out of town…I struggle to argue against that concept despite agreeing that some of the application of it might be flawed or has unintended consequences or indeed effects some more than others.

Just because that may be true doesn’t mean it shouldn’t still be done.

I am being perfectly serious that the ULEZ and LEZ does not affect me anymore.

So if people don't want to support a grandfathering scheme, and continue to support a cash cow instead, then I am perfectly in a position myself to campaign for, and insist that everyone suffer stricter laws, and not only those with older than ten year vehicles. I am being serious.

I personally have been to court against TFL in 2016 concerning his congestion charges, and have campaigned online against Sadiq Khan ever since. His ULEZ is a cash cow, and it does not prevent pollution. The court ruled against me, but I chanced that they would not use tax payers money to pursue me in Scotland, and I chucked the court decision in the bin. I was proven correct, as they did not pursue me, and I don't have to worry about admitting it in public anymore as their five years to take me to a civil court are up. But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.

But I really am ok Jack! I was not ok when I first made this thread. But circumstances change. I am now due to my dislike for Sadiq Khan willing to side with ANTI-ULEZ protesters from the poorer areas that believe that they should be given more time. But if they are not willing to support themselves, then I am equally willing to protest against Sadiq Khan onside of ANTI-ULEZ protesters of a different sort. And that is that the ULEZ is not strict enough.

[RyeSloan]

I am being perfectly serious that the ULEZ and LEZ does not affect me anymore.

So if people don't want to support a grandfathering scheme, and continue to support a cash cow instead, then I am perfectly in a position myself to campaign for, and insist that everyone suffer stricter laws, and not only those with older than ten year vehicles. I am being serious.

I personally have been to court against TFL in 2016 concerning his congestion charges, and have campaigned online against Sadiq Khan ever since. His ULEZ is a cash cow, and it does not prevent pollution. The court ruled against me, but I chanced that they would not use tax payers money to pursue me in Scotland, and I chucked the court decision in the bin. I was proven correct, as they did not pursue me, and I don't have to worry about admitting it in public anymore as their five years to take me to a civil court are up. But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.

But I really am ok Jack! I was not ok when I first made this thread. But circumstances change. I am now due to my dislike for Sadiq Khan willing to side with ANTI-ULEZ protesters from the poorer areas that believe that they should be given more time. But if they are not willing to support themselves, then I am equally willing to protest against Sadiq Khan onside of ANTI-ULEZ protesters of a different sort. And that is that the ULEZ is not strict enough.

I see hyperbole is somewhat in your nature.

I did like the line about going to court against TFL regarding the congestion charge…sounds way better than saying you didn’t pay some fines.

Anyhoo if you are now going to campaign for even cleaner air and tougher ULEZ then I’d suggest the policy is already working.

You’ll need to come up with a name for whatever is more Ultra than Ultra though to describe what you are now going to campaign for….just channel that inner hyperbole and I’m sure you’ll come up with something rather snappy soon enough [emoji2957]

[grunt]

But I really do despise the Mayor of London, I must admit.
Ok.

[lapsedhibee]

Ok.

To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars. (https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/new-cars-emit-more-climate-changing-co2-than-old-according-to-which-tests-aj0MV1u4ZF4h)

[grunt]

To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars. (https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/new-cars-emit-more-climate-changing-co2-than-old-according-to-which-tests-aj0MV1u4ZF4h)Doh!

[Stairway 2 7]

To be fair, Khan is killing the planet with his demand for newer cars. (https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/new-cars-emit-more-climate-changing-co2-than-old-according-to-which-tests-aj0MV1u4ZF4h)

Ulez has been shown to not really reduce co2, it does reduce no2. So as the article says good for our lungs but not the planet. The only thing that has reduced so2 via less travel is congestion charges and no car zones. London saw a 30% reduction after the congestion charge

[silverhibee]

Manse Road back open to traffic, bus gate temporarily closed.

[speedy_gonzales]

Manse Road back open to traffic, bus gate temporarily closed.

Before anyone gets excited, it's only temporary as the only other exit from the Featherhall area was blocked/obstructed by roadworks.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-low-emission-zone-signs-cameras-and-road-changes-to-be-installed-soon-ahead-of-next-years-start-4353833

Progress.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1708412631558525139?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[neil7908]

https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1708412631558525139?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We now have the Daily Mail and Express literally setting Government policy.

Actually, it's worse than that as Sunak is pushing against 15 minute cities, which is delving into heavy fringe conspiracy theory territory.

And baffling as 15 minute cities are just generally a great idea all round, and are actually much closer to the "good old days" where you shop locally in your community than what we have now (folk driving using half their Saturday to drive to Costco and back to buy 8 years worth of toilet paper for 5% less).

[Ozyhibby]

We now have the Daily Mail and Express literally setting Government policy.

Actually, it's worse than that as Sunak is pushing against 15 minute cities, which is delving into heavy fringe conspiracy theory territory.

And baffling as 15 minute cities are just generally a great idea all round, and are actually much closer to the "good old days" where you shop locally in your community than what we have now (folk driving using half their Saturday to drive to Costco and back to buy 8 years worth of toilet paper for 5% less).

It’s the weirdest conspiracy of them all. Having shops near your house is a way of oppressing the masses.[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edinburgh-council-backs-calls-to-explore-banning-gas-guzzling-suvs-from-city

As a former SUV driver who switched to something smaller, I support this.[emoji106]


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[Jack]

Does anyone know how old foreign vehicles will be affected by LEZ and ULEZ?

Are they "exempt"?

I dare say all the crooks that don't properly register their vehicles won't be getting fined either!

[speedy_gonzales]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edinburgh-council-backs-calls-to-explore-banning-gas-guzzling-suvs-from-city

As a former SUV driver who switched to something smaller, I support this.[emoji106]
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The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).

[hibee]

Does anyone know how old foreign vehicles will be affected by LEZ and ULEZ?

Are they "exempt"?

I dare say all the crooks that don't properly register their vehicles won't be getting fined either!

Doesn’t matter if they are foreign or not but generally cars over 30yr old will be exempt in Scotland.

[overdrive]

The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).

Quite a lot of older folk prefer them too as they are easier to get in and out of.

Yep, I agree it isn’t clear what the intention is here. Is it to stop polluting cars? Is it to stop physically large vehicles? Both? You get electric and hybrid SUVs which will be less polluting than a lot of smaller cars.

[hibee]

The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).

The gas guzzling part is odd, they suggest a couple of reasons for banning them is that they cause potholes and are a danger to pedestrians.

I’m sure that anyone being knocked down by an SUV will receive the same injuries whatever it’s powered by and the road can still be damaged by large electric cars. In fact the electric cars will be heavier because of all the batteries so they will probably do more damage to pedestrians and road surfaces, not that we’d notice if the roads in Edinburgh got any worse.

[Jack]

Doesn’t matter if they are foreign or not but generally cars over 30yr old will be exempt in Scotland.

Thank you, that's the simple answer.

When a car goes through the checkpoint its registration number is checked against a database (DVLA) to see if it complies with the LEZ. If it does all is good. If it doesn't then a fine is sent to the owners registered address.

Foreign vehicles won't be on the database so it won't matter if they comply or not.

Miscreants who do not properly register their vehicle or update the owners address will not receive their penalty notice.

And therein lies the problem.

[hibee]

Thank you, that's the simple answer.

When a car goes through the checkpoint its registration number is checked against a database (DVLA) to see if it complies with the LEZ. If it does all is good. If it doesn't then a fine is sent to the owners registered address.

Foreign vehicles won't be on the database so it won't matter if they comply or not.

Miscreants who do not properly register their vehicle or update the owners address will not receive their penalty notice.

And therein lies the problem.

Currently they can find the owner of a foreign registered vehicle but have no way to check if it complies or not but they did say they would add that in when they have developed it.

Unregistered cars generally cause more serious issues with crime etc so I’d imagine dodging the congestion charge is just another bonus but I doubt the driver would be someone who would pay it anyway!

[McD]

The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).


Gas guzzling is a sweeping generalisation at best - my wife has an SUV which is a 1l engine!

It also is beneficial to her due to higher ride height, she has health issues which are alleviated to a degree by the easier entry and exit

[Ozyhibby]

The larger size of vehicle makes congestion more likely which increases everyone’s fuel use. They are also heavier and damage roads and are more dangerous for pedestrians. I’m in favour of anything which encourages people to go for smaller vehicles or out of their cars altogether.


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[RyeSloan]

The emotive language is all over the place in that article.
What exactly is "gas guzzling".
Are they against SUV's or 4x4's? They're not necessarily the same thing.
Pretty sure there was a Top Gear episode that decreed the best 4x4 was actually a Fiat Panda. Hardly a gas guzzling SUV style of vehicle.

Most of those large SUV's are actually faux by faux's rather than 4x4's.
Re size, the general size of vehicles have grown massively over the last 30 years. I took a pic of a Austin mini next to a BMW mini, maybe 15 years in age between them and the BMW looked to be about 50% bigger in bulk (not necessarily 50% bigger in length/width). I don't agree with it myself but I can understand why some drivers think larger vehicles are safer for them (not necessarily safer for those on the outside).

Cars are, to degree, bigger for exactly the safety reason.

That Austin mini would be lucky to get a single star on NACAP…all that safety stuff has to go somewhere.

The article is ridiculous in the extreme for the reasons you and others have mentioned. Suggesting an SUV is the same as a farmers 4x4 shows just how little the idiot knows about anything.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/pmdfoster/status/1721795785916899480?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[SteveHFC]

Cllr Arthur posted on Twitter earlier today that on the 26th of January they will publish plans to work with residents and businesses to significantly reduce the amount of non-essential car traffic driving through the city centre.

[J-C]

Cllr Arthur posted on Twitter earlier today that on the 26th of January they will publish plans to work with residents and businesses to significantly reduce the amount of non-essential car traffic driving through the city centre.

This man and his his colleagues have systematically ruined this city, detours, roads closed in certain areas for no reasons, which then in turn causes congestion and in turn raises pollution.

[Jack]

Cllr Arthur posted on Twitter earlier today that on the 26th of January they will publish plans to work with residents and businesses to significantly reduce the amount of non-essential car traffic driving through the city centre.

I wonder what he's planning to impose this time.

[SteveHFC]

I wonder what he's planning to impose this time.

Will be interesting to find out what he’s planning.

[Berwickhibby]

The cameras go live on 1st June, so I had to inform 3 venues that I could not provide a service to them, due the draconian way that this is being rolled out. Unlike major cities in England and Wales there is no option for small businesses to purchase a day ticket.

Non-compliant cars (M1), vans (N1) and special purpose vehicles
We will

issue an initial PCN set at £60, per vehicle
issue a second PCN set at £120, if the same vehicle is driven a second time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a third PCN set at £240, if the same vehicle is driven a third time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a fourth PCN set at £480, if the same vehicle is driven a fourth time within 90 days of the first breach

[Ozyhibby]

The cameras go live on 1st June, so I had to inform 3 venues that I could not provide a service to them, due the draconian way that this is being rolled out. Unlike major cities in England and Wales there is no option for small businesses to purchase a day ticket.

Non-compliant cars (M1), vans (N1) and special purpose vehicles
We will

issue an initial PCN set at £60, per vehicle
issue a second PCN set at £120, if the same vehicle is driven a second time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a third PCN set at £240, if the same vehicle is driven a third time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a fourth PCN set at £480, if the same vehicle is driven a fourth time within 90 days of the first breach

Someone with newer vehicles will step in to serve your customers and we’ll all have cleaner air in Edinburgh.


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[Berwickhibby]

Someone with newer vehicles will step in to serve your customers and we’ll all have cleaner air in Edinburgh.


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Great attitude…. Let’s screw small businesses …hopefully your employment does not suffer due the changes in legislation

[Ozyhibby]

Great attitude…. Let’s screw small businesses …hopefully your employment does not suffer due the changes in legislation

As opposed to your great attitude to kids with asthma or old people with other respiratory problems?
This legislation has been planned for a very long time. Business has had plenty time to prepare for it.


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[J-C]

Someone with newer vehicles will step in to serve your customers and we’ll all have cleaner air in Edinburgh.


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Meanwhile the council **** about with road reconstruction, tram extension and cycle ways, which in turn creates traffic problems and emission problems.

[Berwickhibby]

As opposed to your great attitude to kids with asthma or old people with other respiratory problems?
This legislation has been planned for a very long time. Business has had plenty time to prepare for it.


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What utter guff!!! I can drive around 90% of the city, into housing schemes etc where people live, but the city centre where i go once or twice a month to work has been cut off because of the stupid legislation. Unfortunately I don’t have a spare £30k to but a new van. I imagine I won’t be the only business in this predicament.

[Ozyhibby]

What utter guff!!! I can drive around 90% of the city, into housing schemes etc where people live, but the city centre where i go once or twice a month to work has been cut off because of the stupid legislation. Unfortunately I don’t have a spare £30k to but a new van. I imagine I won’t be the only business in this predicament.

In your opinion it’s stupid. Lots of people are in favour.


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[Berwickhibby]

In your opinion it’s stupid. Lots of people are in favour.


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It’s stupid as unlike Newcastle, London, Birmingham Manchester Cardiff etc there is no option to purchase a day ticket…straight into enforcement and fines….

[Ozyhibby]

It’s stupid as unlike Newcastle, London, Birmingham Manchester Cardiff etc there is no option to purchase a day ticket…straight into enforcement and fines….

So pollution is ok so long as you can afford to pay? Kind of defeats the purpose?
About 30,000 people a year die from pollution, mostly in our cities. Many of them children.
Govts across the UK are legally obliged to act on this. They have been ordered to do so by the Supreme Court. Failure to do so would open them up to all sorts of legal problems.
And this isn’t party political. Edinburgh is a Labour/tory coalition. Authorities of all parties in the UK are having to act on this. There are legal obligations to protect citizens from harm.


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[Mon Dieu4]

What utter guff!!! I can drive around 90% of the city, into housing schemes etc where people live, but the city centre where i go once or twice a month to work has been cut off because of the stupid legislation. Unfortunately I don’t have a spare £30k to but a new van. I imagine I won’t be the only business in this predicament.

Does seem silly not to offer small businesses some kind of daily permit etc, but with Edinburgh City Council common sense never seems to be an option

[Ozyhibby]

Does seem silly not to offer small businesses some kind of daily permit etc, but with Edinburgh City Council common sense never seems to be an option

And if everybody just pays and emissions don’t come down?


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[Mon Dieu4]

And if everybody just pays and emissions don’t come down?


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I've just read the Air Quality Index for Edinburgh and for the last 3 years it's not been anything other than good, well below the WHO guidelines and substantially better than the UK average

[Berwickhibby]

So pollution is ok so long as you can afford to pay? Kind of defeats the purpose?
About 30,000 people a year die from pollution, mostly in our cities. Many of them children.
Govts across the UK are legally obliged to act on this. They have been ordered to do so by the Supreme Court. Failure to do so would open them up to all sorts of legal problems.
And this isn’t party political. Edinburgh is a Labour/tory coalition. Authorities of all parties in the UK are having to act on this. There are legal obligations to protect citizens from harm.


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I never suggested it was party political, bad legislation is bad legislation, regardless who introduces it

[Ozyhibby]

I never suggested it was party political, bad legislation is bad legislation, regardless who introduces it

I don’t see it as bad legislation. Unless your car is more than 18 years old or your van more than 9 years old then you will be fine (at first). There are not that many vehicles on the road older than that anyway. The vast majority of people will be unaffected.


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[Berwickhibby]

I don’t see it as bad legislation. Unless your car is more than 18 years old or your van more than 9 years old then you will be fine (at first). There are not that many vehicles on the road older than that anyway. The vast majority of people will be unaffected.


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The difference is I am affected…. My van has less than 45k on the clock but being over 9 years old I lose clients and business. The Legislation is an absolute farce.

[superfurryhibby]

I don’t see it as bad legislation. Unless your car is more than 18 years old or your van more than 9 years old then you will be fine (at first). There are not that many vehicles on the road older than that anyway. The vast majority of people will be unaffected.


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Except you never included all Diesel cars made before 2015.

[Moulin Yarns]

What utter guff!!! I can drive around 90% of the city, into housing schemes etc where people live, but the city centre where i go once or twice a month to work has been cut off because of the stupid legislation. Unfortunately I don’t have a spare £30k to but a new van. I imagine I won’t be the only business in this predicament.

Obviously I don't know what you charge but couldn't you hire a van for the few occasions and up the charge for Edinburgh Central? £45 a night should get you a transit van. Rather than turning down gigs for the cost of hiring a van. Just a thought.

[Berwickhibby]

Obviously I don't know what you charge but couldn't you hire a van for the few occasions and up the charge for Edinburgh Central? £45 a night should get you a transit van. Rather than turning down gigs for the cost of hiring a van. Just a thought.

I did look into van hire, by the time you add on the compulsory insurance a transit size van is in excess of £100 for 24 hours. Margins and competition are tight enough without trying to add another £100 to the clients bill.

[Moulin Yarns]

I did look into van hire, by the time you add on the compulsory insurance a transit size van is in excess of £100 for 24 hours. Margins and competition are tight enough without trying to add another £100 to the clients bill.

Fair enough, at least you checked.

[Moulin Yarns]

I did look into van hire, by the time you add on the compulsory insurance a transit size van is in excess of £100 for 24 hours. Margins and competition are tight enough without trying to add another £100 to the clients bill.

I see there are some exemptions, you could get an ex army truck or become a circus performer. 🎪😉

[Berwickhibby]

I see there are some exemptions, you could get an ex army truck or become a circus performer. 🎪😉

I will leave the circus clown performing to Yousless and his Government

[Paul1642]

I don’t see it as bad legislation. Unless your car is more than 18 years old or your van more than 9 years old then you will be fine (at first). There are not that many vehicles on the road older than that anyway. The vast majority of people will be unaffected.


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9 year vehicles are now a 15 plate which is by no means considered an old van for many people. If it’s been well maintained and it’s not got high mileage vans this age will run for other 9 years. Without having the actually numbers I suspect keeping that van for another 9 years is better for the planet than scrapping it and producing a new one.

People’s issue with this legalisation isn’t that it’s trying to reduce pollution. I think we’re all on board with that.

The issue is that the richer folk who can afford to own new vehicles suffer no penalty but people who can’t afford a new van are being legislated out of working in the city centre.

[superfurryhibby]

9 year vehicles are now a 15 plate which is by no means considered an old van for many people. If it’s been well maintained and it’s not got high mileage vans this age will run for other 9 years. Without having the actually numbers I suspect keeping that van for another 9 years is better for the planet than scrapping it and producing a new one.

People’s issue with this legalisation isn’t that it’s trying to reduce pollution. I think we’re all on board with that.

The issue is that the richer folk who can afford to own new vehicles suffer no penalty but people who can’t afford a new van are being legislated out of working in the city centre.

Or for a Diesel car.

I appreciate the emphasis behind this change is on air quality, but if the council were so keen, why is the ULEZ zone so small? I have a big Mondeo, 2.2 ltr engine. It's a 2012 car. I can't drive through the city centre from April. Fine, I'll just skirt around it, bringing more congestion to the areas on the fringe of ULEZ. I only drive through town on rare occasions, so it's not too much of a hassle. For guys like the Berwick fellae, it's a bit more of a challenge.

[Just Alf]

And this isn’t party political. Edinburgh is a Labour/tory coalition. Authorities of all parties in the UK are having to act on this. There are legal obligations to protect citizens from harm.

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I never suggested it was party political, bad legislation is bad legislation, regardless who introduces it




I will leave the circus clown performing to Yousless and his Government

Hmmm ....

[Just Alf]

Or for a Diesel car.

I appreciate the emphasis behind this change is on air quality, but if the council were so keen, why is the ULEZ zone so small? I have a big Mondeo, 2.2 ltr engine. It's a 2012 car. I can't drive through the city centre from April. Fine, I'll just skirt around it, bringing more congestion to the areas on the fringe of ULEZ. I only drive through town on rare occasions, so it's not too much of a hassle. For guys like the Berwick fellae, it's a bit more of a challenge.Yup, it's bad enough getting across town.

Can't help thinking, like the slowly expanding parking zones the ULEZ zone will grow in future :-(

[Moulin Yarns]

I will leave the circus clown performing to Yousless and his Government

So says the one who didn't want to bring politics into it. 🤡

[Berwickhibby]

So says the one who didn't want to bring politics into it. 🤡

You started with the Clown 🤡 quote…. I just filled in the gaps :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

You started with the Clown 🤡 quote…. I just filled in the gaps :greengrin

Actually, I didn't. I gave examples of exempt vehicles.

You have to remember that this has been in the pipeline since 2002, when the SNP were not in government, seeing how you brought politics into it. 22 years to prepare.

[Ozyhibby]

Or for a Diesel car.

I appreciate the emphasis behind this change is on air quality, but if the council were so keen, why is the ULEZ zone so small? I have a big Mondeo, 2.2 ltr engine. It's a 2012 car. I can't drive through the city centre from April. Fine, I'll just skirt around it, bringing more congestion to the areas on the fringe of ULEZ. I only drive through town on rare occasions, so it's not too much of a hassle. For guys like the Berwick fellae, it's a bit more of a challenge.

The area covered will eventually expand to cover the whole city. It’s a gradual introduction I would think would be welcomed.
This has been planned for a very long time and should surprise nobody.
In future we will be getting rid of fossil fuels altogether and to do that there will be changes in the things we can and can’t do. We should prepare accordingly.
The problems with diesel engines have been known about for a very long time and the UK govt has been very slow to act on it. These changes should have happened long ago.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Offering another hand of friendship to Berwickhibby the DJ.

Not sure how you do your tax return, but just a thought, are ULEZ fines able to be 'expenses'??? Maybe one for the accountants on here? I know when I was at events in the centre of Dundee car parking was an allowable expense.

[Berwickhibby]

Offering another hand of friendship to Berwickhibby the DJ.

Not sure how you do your tax return, but just a thought, are ULEZ fines able to be 'expenses'??? Maybe one for the accountants on here? I know when I was at events in the centre of Dundee car parking was an allowable expense.

Unfortunately fines for law breaking are not are not accepted by HMRC as an expense, where as car parking can be reclaimed. To highlight how ludicrous this is, if I drove into London it’s £12 a day, Edinburgh is £60, £120, £240, £480, £480, £480 etc

[Moulin Yarns]

Unfortunately fines for law breaking are not are not accepted by HMRC as an expense, where as car parking can be reclaimed. To highlight how ludicrous this is, if I drove into London it’s £12 a day, Edinburgh is £60, £120, £240, £480, £480, £480 etc

Where are the venues you won't be able to go to? I notice Summerhall is in the ULEZ, but the road outside isn't as an example.

I have friends who upgraded their 9 year old vehicle last year because they have one event a year in Glasgow Trade Hall, obviously worth their while.

[Berwickhibby]

Where are the venues you won't be able to go to? I notice Summerhall is in the ULEZ, but the road outside isn't as an example.

I have friends who upgraded their 9 year old vehicle last year because they have one event a year in Glasgow Trade Hall, obviously worth their while.

I play regularly the Glasshouse, Rowantree, The Caves, Marlyns Wynd and National Museum of Scotland which are all in the zone.

[Moulin Yarns]

I play regularly the Glasshouse, Rowantree, The Caves, Marlyns Wynd and National Museum of Scotland which are all in the zone.

The Glasshouse hotel next to the playhouse? Like Summerhall, roads are not in the ULEZ.

[Berwickhibby]

The Glasshouse hotel next to the playhouse? Like Summerhall, roads are not in the ULEZ.

They are …camera is going in at top of Broughton Street and London Road roundabout

[Moulin Yarns]

They are …camera is going in at top of Broughton Street and London Road roundabout

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-travel-parking/lez-works/3

[Berwickhibby]

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-travel-parking/lez-works/3

Yup the map clearly shows that the Glasshouse is within the LEZ area, thanks for your input but central Edinburgh is going to be a no no and travelling to Easter Road I will have to change my route.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yup the map clearly shows that the Glasshouse is within the LEZ area, thanks for your input but central Edinburgh is going to be a no no and travelling to Easter Road I will have to change my route.

Again, the hotel building is but Leith Walk and Picardy place isn't.


Anyways, you are unwilling to upgrade your van, the ULEZ fines are not deductible for tax purposes, but the hire of a van is a legitimate expense, so that's your answer if you want to do gigs in central Edinburgh. Sorted Sergey.

[Berwickhibby]

Again, the hotel building is but Leith Walk and Picardy place isn't.


Anyways, you are unwilling to upgrade your van, the ULEZ fines are not deductible for tax purposes, but the hire of a van is a legitimate expense, so that's your answer if you want to do gigs in central Edinburgh. Sorted Sergey.

I won’t be able to compete by adding a minimum of £100 to the customer and the access area for the Glasshouse is at the rear of the building therefore I would be ticketed. Plus it’s not being unwilling to upgrade my van, it’s the cost of purchasing a newer compliant van. I will stick with my opinion that is poor legislation that is stifling small businesses.

[superfurryhibby]

The area covered will eventually expand to cover the whole city. It’s a gradual introduction I would think would be welcomed.
This has been planned for a very long time and should surprise nobody.
In future we will be getting rid of fossil fuels altogether and to do that there will be changes in the things we can and can’t do. We should prepare accordingly.
The problems with diesel engines have been known about for a very long time and the UK govt has been very slow to act on it. These changes should have happened long ago.


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If it's so widely welcomed then maybe the council should have a local referendum on it? Unless there is a legislative change which compels it, then I don't think any Edinburgh council will be in a rush to expand the zone.

As for fossil fuels, we're decades off it. Oil is being extracted from the North Sea, licences granted to extract even more.

You mentioned deaths caused by pollution before, but it's conjectural "The 40,000 early deaths figure is a statistical construct, which originated in a report from the Royal College of Physicians last year" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39129270

Using your rationale, should we be banning smoking? Perhaps making alcohol less accessible? Ban sugar rich and fat intensive foods? What about limiting car speeds, why should vehicles be able to travel faster than the speed limits?

I'm happy to skirt round the ULEZ, a minor inconvenience, nothing more. I love my big diesel motor, fast and great fuel economy.

(some of the above, I'm in favour btw).

[lapsedhibee]

If it's so widely welcomed then maybe the council should have a local referendum on it? Unless there is a legislative change which compels it, then I don't think any Edinburgh council will be in a rush to expand the zone.

As for fossil fuels, we're decades off it. Oil is being extracted from the North Sea, licences granted to extract even more.

You mentioned deaths caused by pollution before, but it's conjectural "The 40,000 early deaths figure is a statistical construct, which originated in a report from the Royal College of Physicians last year" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39129270

Using your rationale, should we be banning smoking? Perhaps making alcohol less accessible? What about limiting car speeds, why should vehicles be able to travel faster than the speed limits?

I'm happy to skirt round the ULEZ, a minor inconvenience, nothing more. I love my big diesel motor, fast and great fuel economy.

Yes please.

[hibee]

You could also add the filthy polluting cruise ships to the list of things to be banned, in some countries the visiting ships produce more NOX than all of their cars put together yet we’re still desperate for more of them to visit Edinburgh because they bring tourists.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yup the map clearly shows that the Glasshouse is within the LEZ area, thanks for your input but central Edinburgh is going to be a no no and travelling to Easter Road I will have to change my route.

Now I'm curious, I also travel across the Queensferry crossing and I would never contemplate driving south of Queen street to get to Easter Road. What way do you go?

[Berwickhibby]

Now I'm curious, I also travel across the Queensferry crossing and I would never contemplate driving south of Queen street to get to Easter Road. What way do you go?

Normally I drive Queensferry Road, Craigleith down to Crew Road South, passed Fettes and Botanics to Cannonmills, up Rodney Street, Broughton Street, Picardy Place, right onto London Road then left onto Easter Road. Found this to be quickest…as they are installing the camera at j/w Broughton Street and Picardy place suggest vehicles will get ticketed.

[overdrive]

Normally I drive Queensferry Road, Craigleith down to Crew Road South, passed Fettes and Botanics to Cannonmills, up Rodney Street, Broughton Street, Picardy Place, right onto London Road then left onto Easter Road. Found this to be quickest…as they are installing the camera at j/w Broughton Street and Picardy place suggest vehicles will get ticketed.

Your best bet would be to either continue onto Ferry Rd from Crew Road then up Newhaven Rd/Pilrig St, right onto Leith Walk, left onto Albert St or go your usual way but instead of Broughton St, turn left onto Bellevue Place, continue onto Green St/Hopetoun St, right onto McDonald Rd, left onto Leith Walk, right onto Albert St.

[Moulin Yarns]

Normally I drive Queensferry Road, Craigleith down to Crew Road South, passed Fettes and Botanics to Cannonmills, up Rodney Street, Broughton Street, Picardy Place, right onto London Road then left onto Easter Road. Found this to be quickest…as they are installing the camera at j/w Broughton Street and Picardy place suggest vehicles will get ticketed.

Looking again at the map of the ULEZ picardy place is NOT in the ULEZ. Another question, are you driving your disco van to Easter Road? If so then you are exactly the kind of vehicle that the ULEZ is aimed at.

[Berwickhibby]

Looking again at the map of the ULEZ picardy place is NOT in the ULEZ. Another question, are you driving your disco van to Easter Road? If so then you are exactly the kind of vehicle that the ULEZ is aimed at.

I do drive my van as I then head to off to do a gig after the game… you are right my vehicle is the kind ULEZ is aimed at ….small businesses earning a living.

[hibee]

I do drive my van as I then head to off to do a gig after the game… you are right my vehicle is the kind ULEZ is aimed at ….small businesses earning a living.

They’re hitting you twice with this one too, if you can’t afford to upgrade now you lose business in town but I’d imagine the value of your van will drop like a stone when this comes in too.

I successfully challenged them on my 2005 car and got it changed to compliant as the figures showed it was but I know they’ll just continue to move the target, it’s alright for me as I don’t visit Edinburgh city centre at all now but trying to make a living must be a nightmare.

[J-C]

I drive a 15 plate Euro 5 black taxi which won't be allowed in June, £10k for a new upgraded exhaust system, £12k to make it LPG or £70k for a new LEV taxi. The owner is just getting rid, also getting shot of his too.

[CropleyWasGod]

I drive a 15 plate Euro 5 black taxi which won't be allowed in June, £10k for a new upgraded exhaust system, £12k to make it LPG or £70k for a new LEV taxi. The owner is just getting rid, also getting shot of his too.

Is that a common story?

If it is, will the "too many cabs on the road" complaint that is often made... not be a thing anymore?

Or will it push even more passengers to the PHC/Ubers?

[Just Alf]

Is that a common story?

If it is, will the "too many cabs on the road" complaint that is often made... not be a thing anymore?

Or will it push even more passengers to the PHC/Ubers?I've heard similar from a few different people.
Was also told the market has dropped through the foor for the resale of taxi plates as so many are leaving the industry (or converting to PHC)

[Ozyhibby]

I've heard similar from a few different people.
Was also told the market has dropped through the foor for the resale of taxi plates as so many are leaving the industry (or converting to PHC)

Market for plates dropped through the floor at first lock down and never recovered. Plates used to go for about £40k and now change hands for less than £5k. PHC dominating now.


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[overdrive]

Is that a common story?

If it is, will the "too many cabs on the road" complaint that is often made... not be a thing anymore?

Or will it push even more passengers to the PHC/Ubers?

Don't think they can make that argument anymore. It is a nightmare trying to get a cab these days. Even pre-bookings don't seem to be honoured. I was charged for a pre-booking that showed up hours late that was meant to take me to my own wedding because I booked it through the cab company's app - you are meant to wait indefinitely for it to turn up apparently. A relative had one no-show recently and was told "we prioritise on-street business over pre-bookings"

[Moulin Yarns]

They’re hitting you twice with this one too, if you can’t afford to upgrade now you lose business in town but I’d imagine the value of your van will drop like a stone when this comes in too.

I successfully challenged them on my 2005 car and got it changed to compliant as the figures showed it was but I know they’ll just continue to move the target, it’s alright for me as I don’t visit Edinburgh city centre at all now but trying to make a living must be a nightmare.

Simple solution


Is leasing a vehicle tax deductable?
Leasing (or hiring) a car is an allowable expense (ie tax deductable), but CO2 emissions should be carefully considered when you're choosing a vehicle to lease. As explained by HMRC: "In some cases, if you lease or hire a car you cannot claim all of the hire charges or rental payments. For example, if you leased a car on or after 6 April 2020 and the CO2 emissions are more than 110g/km, you must disallow 15% of the hire charge or rental cost."

[J-C]

Is that a common story?

If it is, will the "too many cabs on the road" complaint that is often made... not be a thing anymore?

Or will it push even more passengers to the PHC/Ubers?


I've heard similar from a few different people.
Was also told the market has dropped through the foor for the resale of taxi plates as so many are leaving the industry (or converting to PHC)


Market for plates dropped through the floor at first lock down and never recovered. Plates used to go for about £40k and now change hands for less than £5k. PHC dominating now.


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Don't think they can make that argument anymore. It is a nightmare trying to get a cab these days. Even pre-bookings don't seem to be honoured. I was charged for a pre-booking that showed up hours late that was meant to take me to my own wedding because I booked it through the cab company's app - you are meant to wait indefinitely for it to turn up apparently. A relative had one no-show recently and was told "we prioritise on-street business over pre-bookings"


Simple solution


Is leasing a vehicle tax deductable?
Leasing (or hiring) a car is an allowable expense (ie tax deductable), but CO2 emissions should be carefully considered when you're choosing a vehicle to lease. As explained by HMRC: "In some cases, if you lease or hire a car you cannot claim all of the hire charges or rental payments. For example, if you leased a car on or after 6 April 2020 and the CO2 emissions are more than 110g/km, you must disallow 15% of the hire charge or rental cost."


I sold up 16 years ago to become a personal trainer, I got £35K for my plate and taxi, unfortunately had to return to the trade when I got arthritis in both hips and needed replaced.

The pandemic has hit the trade hard and the price of the plate has dropped to just a few hundred pounds now, so yes there are less taxis on the road as more guys left to do other jobs and never returned and fewer going through the test.

New LEVC electric taxi is around £66K and a Mercedes Vito around £40K.

Euro 5 engines can be upgraded to a Euro 6 for £10.5K upgraded exhaust system and a TX4 can be changed into LPG vehicle for £12.5K but there is no Government grants for that anymore. Problem with LPG is getting it, not many garages have it now and if you do a long journey you have to know exactly where you can fill up.

The other problem for guys wanting to upgrade is the availability of 2nd hand taxis that are Euro 6, their prices have rocketed due to demand.

The taxi trade is goosed and it won't be long till everyone is driving a normal car using Uber, the problem with them is space with luggage. I was sat at the Caley hotel last week and the Uber couldn't get the passengers and all their luggage into his car, the concierge called me over and I easily put 4 big suitcases, 3 hand luggage and 4 people into the taxi and had them at the airport in 20mins.

[Berwickhibby]

I sold up 16 years ago to become a personal trainer, I got £35K for my plate and taxi, unfortunately had to return to the trade when I got arthritis in both hips and needed replaced.

The pandemic has hit the trade hard and the price of the plate has dropped to just a few hundred pounds now, so yes there are less taxis on the road as more guys left to do other jobs and never returned and fewer going through the test.

New LEVC electric taxi is around £66K and a Mercedes Vito around £40K.

Euro 5 engines can be upgraded to a Euro 6 for £10.5K upgraded exhaust system and a TX4 can be changed into LPG vehicle for £12.5K but there is no Government grants for that anymore. Problem with LPG is getting it, not many garages have it now and if you do a long journey you have to know exactly where you can fill up.

The other problem for guys wanting to upgrade is the availability of 2nd hand taxis that are Euro 6, their prices have rocketed due to demand.

The taxi trade is goosed and it won't be long till everyone is driving a normal car using Uber, the problem with them is space with luggage. I was sat at the Caley hotel last week and the Uber couldn't get the passengers and all their luggage into his car, the concierge called me over and I easily put 4 big suitcases, 3 hand luggage and 4 people into the taxi and had them at the airport in 20mins.

But come June that will no longer be an option you can provide

[J-C]

But come June that will no longer be an option you can provide

Exactly, that's the point of my post, the cost to upgrade because of this ridiculous rule is extortionate, either buy an overly expensive vehicle or buy a excessively priced 2nd hand vehicle that complies, this council is brutal. They create congestion and emission problem than complain about the problems they've actually created, couldn't make it up.

[Berwickhibby]

Exactly, that's the point of my post, the cost to upgrade because of this ridiculous rule is extortionate, either buy an overly expensive vehicle or buy a excessively priced 2nd hand vehicle that complies, this council is brutal. They create congestion and emission problem than complain about the problems they've actually created, couldn't make it up.

As I tried to highlight in my previous posts this absolute draconian legislation which will effect small businesses who require to enter the city centre.

[Moulin Yarns]

As I tried to highlight in my previous posts this absolute draconian legislation which will effect small businesses who require to enter the city centre.

Except it's not just small businesses, it is everyone who has had their head in the sand for over 20 years since this legislation was first talked about!!

[Berwickhibby]

Except it's not just small businesses, it is everyone who has had their head in the sand for over 20 years since this legislation was first talked about!!

Brutal legislation…. With absolute no flexibility… unlike the other major UK cities outside Scotland

[Stairway 2 7]

Middle classes will sneer and say just get on with it and spend the money. This is the same with electric cars and heat pumps. Some people are toiling in the cost of living crisis thousands of pounds are just not available.

If we're all in it together surely the more well off would pay a tax to get everyone effected to upgrade by way of a full grant or don't they care about the kids dying ect.

This disproportionately effects those who can afford it the least

[Ozyhibby]

Middle classes will sneer and say just get on with it and spend the money. This is the same with electric cars and heat pumps. Some people are toiling in the cost of living crisis thousands of pounds are just not available.

If we're all in it together surely the more well off would pay a tax to get everyone effected to upgrade by way of a full grant or don't they care about the kids dying ect.

This disproportionately effects those who can afford it the least

Life disproportionately affects those who can afford it least. That will never change.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Life disproportionately affects those who can afford it least. That will never change.


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That's on the government. There is a green tax on our fuel bills we could have green tax or we could just use what we do better. Everyone regardless of wealth can use various green grants we should be focusing on the people who are effected if we really care. If someone is toiling to pay their bills sneering isn't going to change their non compliant van.

I'm also dubious if it's better for the environment scrapping a working car and producing a new car. Most people I know say they will just drive round it. We should just have a rule that effects everyone equally like a car free centre bar public transport and disabilities

[Ozyhibby]

That's on the government. There is a green tax on our fuel bills we could have green tax or we could just use what we do better. Everyone regardless of wealth can use various green grants we should be focusing on the people who are effected if we really care. If someone is toiling to pay their bills sneering isn't going to change their non compliant van.

I'm also dubious if it's better for the environment scrapping a working car and producing a new car. Most people I know say they will just drive round it. We should just have a rule that effects everyone equally like a car free centre bar public transport and disabilities

I would say that a car free centre is not far away.
There are def better ways to go about doing what we need to do but we have a govt who are not really interested in the issue.


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[Just Alf]

Re BH's predicament, it does seem contrary to reducing waste overalk to not have some sort of permit system allowing occasionally going into the ULEZ for work with a non compliant van.

Surely, looking at the big picture BH getting a permit for his van 7-8 times a year , as an example, is better than forcing said prefectly operational van to be put off the road and scrapped with all the waste that entails?

[Ozyhibby]

Re BH's predicament, it does seem contrary to reducing waste overalk to not have some sort of permit system allowing occasionally going into the ULEZ for work with a non compliant van.

Surely, looking at the big picture BH getting a permit for his van 7-8 times a year , as an example, is better than forcing said prefectly operational van to be put off the road and scrapped with all the waste that entails?

The problem with that is that everyone will have an exception that they should be allowed. The cost of the scheme then goes through the roof.
This is much the same as the smoking ban when there were constant complaints from business owners that their business was a special case and they should be given an exemption. In the end it was implemented and I doubt anyone would wish to go back.
Fumes from non compliant vehicles are harming people’s health right now. Is that fair on pedestrians in the city centre? Is it just a case of tough, I’ve got money to make?


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[Berwickhibby]

The problem with that is that everyone will have an exception that they should be allowed. The cost of the scheme then goes through the roof.
This is much the same as the smoking ban when there were constant complaints from business owners that their business was a special case and they should be given an exemption. In the end it was implemented and I doubt anyone would wish to go back.
Fumes from non compliant vehicles are harming people’s health right now. Is that fair on pedestrians in the city centre? Is it just a case of tough, I’ve got money to make?


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Yet the other major cities in England and Wales offer a scheme where you pay to enter if your vehicle is non compliant, not huge fines like Scotland

[greenlex]

Yet the other major cities in England and Wales offer a scheme where you pay to enter if your vehicle is non compliant, not huge fines like Scotland
Think of the fines as payment and jobs a good un.

[Berwickhibby]

Think of the fines as payment and jobs a good un.

Aye £12 for London ..up to £480 for after the third visit….great value

[lapsedhibee]

Yet the other major cities in England and Wales offer a scheme where you pay to enter if your vehicle is non compliant, not huge fines like Scotland

Have some sympathy with your plight but am not convinced that we should do something just because that's what they do dan sarf. Do believe there are some people down there who don't give a stuff about the health of the hoi polloi.

[greenlex]

Aye £12 for London ..up to £480 for after the third visit….great value
Great deterrent. At £12 a pop it’s just a money making exercise ( not a very good one it has to be said) rather than actually having an effect. It’ll be chalked up as a business expense.

[Berwickhibby]

Great deterrent. At £12 a pop it’s just a money making exercise ( nit Avery good one it has to be said) rather than actually having an effect.

Fantastic …. Killing the city centre, pricing it that only the wealthy can use it.

[Ozyhibby]

Fantastic …. Killing the city centre, pricing it that only the wealthy can use it.

Only the wealthy can use it?


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[SteveHFC]

Major roads through the centre of Edinburgh will be closed to through traffic under blueprint to cut car use in the capital. Council also want to look at the possiblity of charging drivers to use certain roads as part of efforts to cut out congestion.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-roads-through-traffic-to-be-banned-from-key-routes-across-city-centre-4495063

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24078499.edinburgh-council-government-talks-pay-as-you-drive-plans/

[Ozyhibby]

Major roads through the centre of Edinburgh will be closed to through traffic under blueprint to cut car use in the capital. Council also want to look at the possiblity of charging drivers to use certain roads as part of efforts to cut out congestion.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-roads-through-traffic-to-be-banned-from-key-routes-across-city-centre-4495063

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24078499.edinburgh-council-government-talks-pay-as-you-drive-plans/

Bring in a congestion charge and make buses and trams free. Would change behaviour massively and really open up the city centre for people again.


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[Berwickhibby]

Major roads through the centre of Edinburgh will be closed to through traffic under blueprint to cut car use in the capital. Council also want to look at the possiblity of charging drivers to use certain roads as part of efforts to cut out congestion.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-roads-through-traffic-to-be-banned-from-key-routes-across-city-centre-4495063

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24078499.edinburgh-council-government-talks-pay-as-you-drive-plans/

God help wedding venues and hotels etc getting vendors in Edinburgh

[Moulin Yarns]

Good help wedding venues and hotels etc getting vendors in Edinburgh

It might well do. 😉

[Just Alf]

Good help wedding venues and hotels etc getting vendors in EdinburghWhat a nightmare, mentions there will still be local access mind you.... but if you remember, they said that when the trams were being built down Leith Walk, delivery firms were complaining despite that they were still having to cart stuff a good distance :-(

Actually, on the trams, if they close the proposed new route to traffic with this scheme, then drivers won't be able to blame the tram construction for any traffic delays!

A cunning plan by the council! [emoji1787]

[Ozyhibby]

What a nightmare, mentions there will still be local access mind you.... but if you remember, they said that when the trams were being built down Leith Walk, delivery firms were complaining despite that they were still having to cart stuff a good distance :-(

Actually, on the trams, if they close the proposed new route to traffic with this scheme, then drivers won't be able to blame the tram construction for any traffic delays!

A cunning plan by the council! [emoji1787]

Was down Leith Walk the other day. All the businesses seemed to be open as normal and have adapted to the new set up. I dare say some might be enjoying the extra footfall the tram brings.


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[Mon Dieu4]

Was down Leith Walk the other day. All the businesses seemed to be open as normal and have adapted to the new set up. I dare say some might be enjoying the extra footfall the tram brings.


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They have adapted to the new set up, mainly because delivery drivers have ignored the useless parking bays and are just parking on the pavement in front of where they are delivering to, I like the trams, I use them lots but let's not pretend the current state of walking, cycling, getting on and off buses or delivering goods in Leith walk is anything other than a farce

[Just Alf]

Was down Leith Walk the other day. All the businesses seemed to be open as normal and have adapted to the new set up. I dare say some might be enjoying the extra footfall the tram brings.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm talking about when the road was closed and provision was made for local access.

Edit: and for what it's worth, I totally agree.... now they're in place they've been a success a getting people into the area and spending their money

[Jack]

They have adapted to the new set up, mainly because delivery drivers have ignored the useless parking bays and are just parking on the pavement in front of where they are delivering to, I like the trams, I use them lots but let's not pretend the current state of walking, cycling, getting on and off buses or delivering goods in Leith walk is anything other than a farce

The behaviour of motorists, cyclists and pedestrians on Leith Walk has, not unsurprisingly, improved considerably since the trams started running. It just took a bit of getting used to.

Yes there are still vehicles parking as they shouldn't.

Pedestrians, I'd suggest mostly lost tourists, walking in the cycle paths.

The biggest miscreants are the cyclists. Still too many cycling on the wrong side of the road; cycling on the pavement section; not using/having lights on when it's dark and wearing dark clothing making them very difficult to see. Most of these are the food delivery people.

I'd agree it was a farce. I'd suggest now it's 'still room for improvement'.

[lapsedhibee]

The biggest miscreants are the cyclists. Still too many cycling on the wrong side of the road; cycling on the pavement section; not using/having lights on when it's dark and wearing dark clothing making them very difficult to see. Most of these are the food delivery people.

Wonder if some of that is because the cycling bit has been laid so lumpy.

[Jack]

Wonder if some of that is because the cycling bit has been laid so lumpy.

Not particularly on the bits I was thinking about when I was writing the post although I'm just a pedestrian these days and there may well be lumpy bits. Would slowing down at these lumpy bits not help?

[lapsedhibee]

Not particularly on the bits I was thinking about when I was writing the post although I'm just a pedestrian these days and there may well be lumpy bits. Would slowing down at these lumpy bits not help?

No doubt. Not been on all of it, but going downhill from London Road, there's long, long sections of lumpy, which you'd end up doing at little more than walking speed. Ideal for pedestrians but not much of an incentive for cyclists to cycle on. Have been quite tempted to take my chances on the tramlines for a smoother ride, but the Driving Pet Peeves thread might explode.

[Itsnoteasy]

What utter guff!!! I can drive around 90% of the city, into housing schemes etc where people live, but the city centre where i go once or twice a month to work has been cut off because of the stupid legislation. Unfortunately I don’t have a spare £30k to but a new van. I imagine I won’t be the only business in this predicament.

I'm in the same boat. Same van b4 lockdown £16k, now £30k as you've said. £90 when you enter the zone then double every time until it reaches about £400. Then after 3 months the fines start again.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm in the same boat. Same van b4 lockdown £16k, now £30k as you've said. £90 when you enter the zone then double every time until it reaches about £400. Then after 3 months the fines start again.

I think you need check the cost of ULEZ fines

🤔

[Berwickhibby]

I think you need check the cost of ULEZ fines

🤔

Itsnoteasy is close enough with his post

issue an initial PCN set at £60, per vehicle
issue a second PCN set at £120, if the same vehicle is driven a second time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a third PCN set at £240, if the same vehicle is driven a third time within 90 days of the first breach
issue a fourth PCN set at £480, if the same vehicle is driven a fourth time within 90 days of the first breach

[Itsnoteasy]

I think you need check the cost of ULEZ fines

🤔

My first fine was a tad to high & last fine was a tad to low. I'll make sure I dot the i's & cross the t's right the next time.

[Berwickhibby]

I'm in the same boat. Same van b4 lockdown £16k, now £30k as you've said. £90 when you enter the zone then double every time until it reaches about £400. Then after 3 months the fines start again.

I just did a calculation on the fines for December if ULEZ had been in force….£2820 by the time I paid my tax on earnings I would be in minus.

[Ozyhibby]

I just did a calculation on the fines for December if ULEZ had been in force….£2820 by the time I paid my tax on earnings I would be in minus.

New van would be a lot cheaper than that per month.


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[Moulin Yarns]

New van would be a lot cheaper than that per month.


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Don't be so logical 😉

[Berwickhibby]

New van would be a lot cheaper than that per month.


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It would!! but I own a van with less than 45k on the clock, regularly serviced. I will find work elsewhere and Edinburgh council can GTF.

[Jack]

It would!! but I own a van with less than 45k on the clock, regularly serviced. I will find work elsewhere and Edinburgh council can GTF.

If business in Edinburgh was so important why did you buy a non compliant van?

[Berwickhibby]

If business in Edinburgh was so important why did you buy a non compliant van?

Had my van 9 years …was compliant when I bought it 🙄

[speedy_gonzales]

Had my van 9 years …was compliant when I bought it 🙄

9 year old van with 45K on the clock. I'd invest in an electric cargo bike. No idea what you do for a trade but I've seen these modern e-bikes do some serious hauling with the right trailer. Less than 5K a year makes it sound like a lot of urban miles.

[Berwickhibby]

9 year old van with 45K on the clock. I'd invest in an electric cargo bike. No idea what you do for a trade but I've seen these modern e-bikes do some serious hauling with the right trailer. Less than 5K a year makes it sound like a lot of urban miles.

Bit hard to transport a full disco rig lighting, PA plus spares from Fife on a cargo bike

[speedy_gonzales]

Bit hard to transport a full disco rig lighting, PA plus spares from Fife on a cargo bike

Yeah, hard but not impossible. I was surprised when I seen some of the loads these bikes could carry.
But seriously, you're looking at a final mile solution or a change of vehicle. It'd be ridiculous to cut yourself off from potential business when there are solutions out there.

[Berwickhibby]

Yeah, hard but not impossible. I was surprised when I seen some of the loads these bikes could carry.
But seriously, you're looking at a final mile solution or a change of vehicle. It'd be ridiculous to cut yourself off from potential business when there are solutions out there.

Cant take an electric bike on a motorway…and I am not forking out £30k on a new van. I am getting bookings outwith the zone so I will take the initial hit. The people who will suffer most are the wedding venues in Edinburgh. Also the couples who are paying more for their big day.

The solution is for the Council not be so inflexible for businesses to enter Edinburgh to work.

[Ozyhibby]

Cant take an electric bike on a motorway…and I am not forking out £30k on a new van. I am getting bookings outwith the zone so I will take the initial hit. The people who will suffer most are the wedding venues in Edinburgh. Also the couples who are paying more for their big day.

The solution is for the Council not be so inflexible for businesses to enter Edinburgh to work.

The improvement in air quality will benefit everyone in the city though.


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[Itsnoteasy]

Cant take an electric bike on a motorway…and I am not forking out £30k on a new van. I am getting bookings outwith the zone so I will take the initial hit. The people who will suffer most are the wedding venues in Edinburgh. Also the couples who are paying more for their big day.

The solution is for the Council not be so inflexible for businesses to enter Edinburgh to work.

Not sure if mentioned previously BH, but showmans vehicles ie the gypsy community are exempt. A high percent of those vehicles are ancient. How did they come to that decision.

[Itsnoteasy]

If business in Edinburgh was so important why did you buy a non compliant van?

What a ridiculous statement. Every vehicle was compliant till ULEZ was introduced into Scotland last year.

[Itsnoteasy]

The improvement in air quality will benefit everyone in the city though.


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No it will only improve it in the city centre. As every other vehicle will navigate around the zone making the air quality far worse outside the zone.

[speedy_gonzales]

Cant take an electric bike on a motorway

You miss understand me, when I said "final mile" I meant you could drive the vehicle of your choosing to the periphery of the ULEZ zone then complete the last section by any compliant means.


The people who will suffer most are the wedding venues in Edinburgh. Also the couples who are paying more for their big day.


Where there's a will there's a way, I've seen a lot more electric commercial vehicles on the city's streets recently. Tradesmen will adapt, whether that's their area of business or how they carry it out. Any voids left behind will eventually be filled, they always are.


The solution is for the Council not be so inflexible for businesses to enter Edinburgh to work.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath on that point, they're not known for making u-turns.

[Berwickhibby]

Not sure if mentioned previously BH, but showmans vehicles ie the gypsy community are exempt. A high percent of those vehicles are ancient. How did they come to that decision.

I assume the council don’t want to upset the travelling community 🤷*♂️

[lapsedhibee]

You miss understand me, when I said "final mile" I meant you could drive the vehicle of your choosing to the periphery of the ULEZ zone then complete the last section by any compliant means.

Would that mean carrying a cargo bike and ramp in the van then rolling it out of the van at the ULEZ periphery?

[speedy_gonzales]

Would that mean carrying a cargo bike and ramp in the van then rolling it out of the van at the ULEZ periphery?

That would be one option.

[Itsnoteasy]

Yeah, hard but not impossible. I was surprised when I seen some of the loads these bikes could carry.
But seriously, you're looking at a final mile solution or a change of vehicle. It'd be ridiculous to cut yourself off from potential business when there are solutions out there.


Surely if the bike is pulling heavy loads the distance the bike could travel would be limited.

Are you sure it's legal for these ebikes to pull trailers.

As a motorcycle under 125cc is not allowed to pull a trailer. These ebikes can't be as powerful as a 125cc bike.

[Jack]

What a ridiculous statement. Every vehicle was compliant till ULEZ was introduced into Scotland last year.

Not at all.

First discussed for London in 2008 its naive to think other councils around the UK wouldn't be jumping on the money making bandwagon saying it's great for the environment.

The legislation process started in Scotland in 2016.

(U)LEZ being introduced was inevitable.

[Berwickhibby]

Not at all.

First discussed for London in 2008 its naive to think other councils around the UK wouldn't be jumping on the money making bandwagon saying it's great for the environment.

The legislation process started in Scotland in 2016.

(U)LEZ being introduced was inevitable.

Accept your point but London Birmingham etc allow the purchase of day tickets for vehicles to enter if they need to, the straight to fines and excessive fines for breaches is draconian to say the least.

[Itsnoteasy]

Not at all.

First discussed for London in 2008 its naive to think other councils around the UK wouldn't be jumping on the money making bandwagon saying it's great for the environment.

The legislation process started in Scotland in 2016.

(U)LEZ being introduced was inevitable.

Yes 1st discussed, but look how long it has taken for it to be implemented. Surely its the vehicle manufacturers issue for not making the vehicles compliant earlier. Or will they say the same, that no definite date was given to start Ulez.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes 1st discussed, but look how long it has taken for it to be implemented. Surely its the vehicle manufacturers issue for not making the vehicles compliant earlier. Or will they say the same, that no definite date was given to start Ulez.

My brother got a new van recently due to Ulez. He had known years ago it was coming but left it to last minute. Cost him £15k but he’s delighted with his new van. Had to go down to England to pick it up.


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[speedy_gonzales]

Surely if the bike is pulling heavy loads the distance the bike could travel would be limited.

Are you sure it's legal for these ebikes to pull trailers.

As a motorcycle under 125cc is not allowed to pull a trailer. These ebikes can't be as powerful as a 125cc bike.
Absolutely legal for bicycles to have trailers.
Bikes can also be bespoke built to carry loads. Please note these kegs are empty, but point remains.

Edited to add this solution probably isn't practical for BerwickHibby so the idea that will be moot.

[J-C]

The improvement in air quality will benefit everyone in the city though.


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Worst air quality is in St John's Rd nowhere near the centre and due to commuters doing the daily drive. Closing off roads in the centre will only cause congestion and emission problems elsewhere, the LEZ is actually quite small an area. Oh BTW does the emissions from heavy traffic know not to float from Picardy Pl to the top of Leith St where the zone begins.

[Ozyhibby]

Worst air quality is in St John's Rd nowhere near the centre abd due to commuters doing the daily drive. Closing off roads in the centre will only cause congestion and emission problems elsewhere, the LEZ is actually quite small an area. Oh BTW does the emissions from heavy traffic know not to float from Picardy Pl to the top of Leith St where the zone begins.

And I think the ULEZ will expand once it’s in operation until it covers the whole city. And it will encourage people to use less polluting vehicles.


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[Berwickhibby]

After being unable to work during pandemic, cost of living crisis, fuel crisis, tax rises, insurance going sky high this feel like another unnecessary kick in the stanes ….be better just sitting at home living on benefits than actually working.

Edinburgh Council can GTF

[danhibees1875]

After being unable to work during pandemic, cost of living crisis, fuel crisis, tax rises, insurance going sky high this feel like another unnecessary kick in the stanes ….be better just sitting at home living on benefits than actually working.

Edinburgh Council can GTF

For what it's worth, I have total sympathy with you here, and with the challenges you've had to face over the last few years.

I don't know what the solution is as doing nothing doesn't feel right, the day passes feel a bit tokenistic, and this feels excessive... presumably a better mix of support, grants, exemptions, etc that allows for this to be rolled out to an appropriate level without impacting so drastically on people like yourself.

I hope you find a solution to this that works for you. :aok: