Congestion charges and low emission zones

[Berwickhibby]

For what it's worth, I have total sympathy with you here, and with the challenges you've had to face over the last few years.

I don't know what the solution is as doing nothing doesn't feel right, the day passes feel a bit tokenistic, and this feels excessive... presumably a better mix of support, grants, exemptions, etc that allows for this to be rolled out to an appropriate level without impacting so drastically on people like yourself.

I hope you find a solution to this that works for you. :aok:

Appreciate your understanding, my van is completely legal and compliant for the Road Traffic Act, as it’s taxed, business insured and has an MOT certificate. I have had to give up lucrative contracts and find work elsewhere due to the inflexible Edinburgh ULEZ legislation. The problem is the clients will end up paying a lot more for services if they choose a venue within the ULEZ zone.

I have this week been contacted by a bride who has moved her wedding to another venue as both I, the cake maker, Photo Booth and light up dance floor have increased our prices to accommodate van hire.

[Hibs4185]

My family Audi a4 estate which averages 48mpg is banned but my Mercedes SL and my Daimler double six V12 are exempt so not all bad 🤣🤣

Happy to do my bit and leave the Audi at home

[J-C]

My 20yr old Golf is OK to drive in the town but the 9yr old taxi I drive isn't.

[Berwickhibby]

My 20yr old Golf is OK to drive in the town but the 9yr old taxi I drive isn't.

Which obviously makes sense to some dimwit at the Council but not to everyone else

[Itsnoteasy]

My brother got a new van recently due to Ulez. He had known years ago it was coming but left it to last minute. Cost him £15k but he’s delighted with his new van. Had to go down to England to pick it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What make & model did he get for that price? & just oot the wrapper.

[Ozyhibby]

What make & model did he get for that price? & just oot the wrapper.

2nd hand Mercedes 2018 model I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Itsnoteasy]

2nd hand Mercedes 2018 model I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So he got himself a new vehicle that is used 👍🏻

[J-C]

So he got himself a new vehicle that is used 👍🏻

Or one that's new to him 😁

[Ozyhibby]

So he got himself a new vehicle that is used [emoji1303]

It’s new to him and Ulez compliant. That’s all he cares about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Which obviously makes sense to some dimwit at the Council but not to everyone else

Would an estate car not do the job, be cheaper too.

[hibee]

My family Audi a4 estate which averages 48mpg is banned but my Mercedes SL and my Daimler double six V12 are exempt so not all bad [emoji1787][emoji1787]

Happy to do my bit and leave the Audi at home

Following this theme maybe the way forward is buying a classic van which is already exempt, would look cool turning up to a job in this which is for sale in Bonnyrigg and under £10k!

These are also exempt from road tax and MOT.

https://www.carcavescotland.co.uk/classic-cars-stock/ford-transit-mk1-lhd-0

[Itsnoteasy]

Following this theme maybe the way forward is buying a classic van which is already exempt, would look cool turning up to a job in this which is for sale in Bonnyrigg and under £10k!

These are also exempt from road tax and MOT.

https://www.carcavescotland.co.uk/classic-cars-stock/ford-transit-mk1-lhd-0

That does look good, but nae power steering I'm guessing. How would this be exempt from Ulez charges?

[hibee]

That does look good, but nae power steering I'm guessing. How would this be exempt from Ulez charges?

Anything over 30yr old is exempt as it’s classed as historic.

[Hibs4185]

Aye get to a classic car auction and pick up a retro van!

[Stairway 2 7]

Anything over 30yr old is exempt as it’s classed as historic.

Must be to satisfy the toffs in the new town with their old Rollers and E Types. It's mental. Also showmans vehicles must be to not discriminate against a community because how can some professions be told to modernize and others not

[hibee]

Must be to satisfy the toffs in the new town with their old Rollers and E Types. It's mental. Also showmans vehicles must be to not discriminate against a community because how can some professions be told to modernize and others not

These cars should be protected, you can’t just scrap an E-Type because it doesn’t comply with modern regulations!

It’s not just toffs that run classics, I had an old Porsche as a second car for 8 years, it was cheap to buy and cheap to run and I sold it for a profit when it was 33 years old. Over 70% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road today, they may only do a couple of thousand miles a year so surely better on the planet than scrapping them and building a new car.

[Stairway 2 7]

These cars should be protected, you can’t just scrap an E-Type because it doesn’t comply with modern regulations!

It’s not just toffs that run classics, I had an old Porsche as a second car for 8 years, it was cheap to buy and cheap to run and I sold it for a profit when it was 33 years old. Over 70% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road today, they may only do a couple of thousand miles a year so surely better on the planet than scrapping them and building a new car.

I have a miniscule amount of sympathy for classic cars being in the centre than someone's motor that their livelihood depends on.

Plus no one is saying scrap then just don't take them in the city centre you'll still have 99.9% of Scotland to roam. You could also get them converted if you need to be in the centre

[hibee]

I have a miniscule amount of sympathy for classic cars being in the centre than someone's motor that their livelihood depends on.

Plus no one is saying scrap then just don't take them in the city centre you'll still have 99.9% of Scotland to roam. You could also get them converted if you need to be in the centre

Fair enough, I personally don’t have any need to ever take a car into the city centre but if you happen to live within the LEZ then you’ve not got much choice other than moving or selling the car.

[Itsnoteasy]

Just read the latest road closures that will come into effect for 2025. Half the centre of toon, mound, bottom of cowgate outside parliament etc being pedestrianised 🙄

[Stairway 2 7]

Just read the latest road closures that will come into effect for 2025. Half the centre of toon, mound, bottom of cowgate outside parliament etc being pedestrianised 🙄

They are trying to copy the car free centre Ghent brought in.
https://www.simagazin.com/en/si-urban-en/topics-urban/urban/gent-the-car-free-city/

After ghent created car free centre and no through traffic car use in the city went from 55% to 27%
Bike traffic went from 22% to 35%
Public transport from 20% to 31%, they used the extra money from public transport to create more routes and decrease price
Pedestrians in the centre grew 5%
Air pollution dropped 25%

Biggest positive was businesses flourished in the centre. Bankruptcies down 20% in food and drink industry and 7% more new businesses in the centre. I think people must want to be in the city centre more when it's focused on people and not cars

[Ozyhibby]

They are trying to copy the car free centre Ghent brought in.
https://www.simagazin.com/en/si-urban-en/topics-urban/urban/gent-the-car-free-city/

After ghent created car free centre and no through traffic car use in the city went from 55% to 27%
Bike traffic went from 22% to 35%
Public transport from 20% to 31%, they used the extra money from public transport to create more routes and decrease price
Pedestrians in the centre grew 5%
Air pollution dropped 25%

Biggest positive was businesses flourished in the centre. Bankruptcies down 20% in food and drink industry and 7% more new businesses in the centre. I think people must want to be in the city centre more when it's focused on people and not cars

There are a few working examples in Europe where this works and improves cities. I’m sure they have the same opposition at first as we have as well. None of them will switch back though.
Business in Leith will be starting to see the benefits of the move away from cars in Leith walk which is why we are hearing complaints about parking so much. And the more we move away from cars in the city centre, the quicker the trams and buses will be able to get through it, making getting through Edinburgh better for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

There are a few working examples in Europe where this works and improves cities. I’m sure they have the same opposition at first as we have as well. None of them will switch back though.
Business in Leith will be starting to see the benefits of the move away from cars in Leith walk which is why we are hearing complaints about parking so much. And the more we move away from cars in the city centre, the quicker the trams and buses will be able to get through it, making getting through Edinburgh better for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

An article I read says there was riots at the townhall in Ghent before it was implemented. 4 years later 74% of this polled wanted it extended further (12% abstained)

[SteveHFC]

Cowgate apparently being closed to traffic for a trial period and possibly permanent if it goes well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68170323

[grunt]

Cowgate apparently being closed to traffic for a trial period and possibly permanent if it goes well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68170323
Personally and selfishly I'm against this, Cowgate is my main route through town. It means East to West traffic will need to either go Queen Street - single lane for the York Place section, six sets of traffic lights - or the Meadows, which ends up at the complete traffic disaster which is Tollcross.

[Berwickhibby]

Cowgate apparently being closed to traffic for a trial period and possibly permanent if it goes well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68170323

The Caves, Rowantree and Apex will lose a lot of wedding business if the Cowgate closes….considering that’s the main income for the unusual event’s company which also includes Marilyn’s Wynd on Blair Street

[Just Alf]

Personally and selfishly I'm against this, Cowgate is my main route through town. It means East to West traffic will need to either go Queen Street - single lane for the York Place section, six sets of traffic lights - or the Meadows, which ends up at the complete traffic disaster which is Tollcross.I'm the same.... through Grassmarket, up onto royal Mile and down through cowgate eventually hitting top of Easter Road.... both Grassmarket and Cowgate are being closed! [emoji20]

Even my bus (35) will be impacted

[Stairway 2 7]

There is still access for deliveries just no through traffic for cars. Cars will have to go round or better get public transport which will still be able to pass through but now quicker.

As for pubs and venues in Ghent there was a 20% increase in new businesses in the hotel and restaurant industry with 7% fewer bankruptcies. People want to spend time uptown when it's not filled with cars it seems

[grunt]

There is still access for deliveries just no through traffic for cars. Cars will have to go round or better get public transport which will still be able to pass through but now quicker.
Which buses go along the Cowgate? Answer: No buses go along the Cowgate. Me driving through Cowgate was holding up precisely no buses.


As for pubs and venues in Ghent there was a 20% increase in new businesses in the hotel and restaurant industry with 7% fewer bankruptcies. People want to spend time uptown when it's not filled with cars it seemsI'm not talking about travel to the pubs and clubs in the Cowgate. I'm talking about the Cowgate being a major road connecting East of Edinburgh to the West side.

[Stairway 2 7]

Which buses go along the Cowgate? Answer: No buses go along the Cowgate. Me driving through Cowgate was holding up precisely no buses.

I'm not talking about travel to the pubs and clubs in the Cowgate. I'm talking about the Cowgate being a major road connecting East of Edinburgh to the West side.

You don't teleport into the cowgate though so slow down tlb7s traffic heading to town. The point is to stop traffic heading towards town. They also say decreasing cars will enable them to add routes and capacity.

You weren't talking about businesses in the area but they are effected by cars. People like to go where there are no cars in cities, trade improves without them.

The fact is we need cars of the road and this is a way with good benefits. We don't want it to be easy for cars we want people cycling and using public transport. We can't sit and watch the world's temperatures increase and say but I prefer my convenience

[SteveHFC]

You don't teleport into the cowgate though so slow down tlb7s traffic heading to town. The point is to stop traffic heading towards town. They also say decreasing cars will enable them to add routes and capacity.

You weren't talking about businesses in the area but they are effected by cars. People like to go where there are no cars in cities, trade improves without them.

The fact is we need cars of the road and this is a way with good benefits. We don't want it to be easy for cars we want people cycling and using public transport. We can't sit and watch the world's temperatures increase and say but I prefer my convenience

I know plenty of people who can’t cycle due to health or disability reasons. I rely on buses but they need to improve the transport system outside of Edinburgh to make this work.

[Stairway 2 7]

I know plenty of people who can’t cycle due to health or disability reasons. I rely on buses but they need to improve the transport system out of Edinburgh to make this work.

If they are disabled they can still park up town. For those without blue badges park and rides will get you up town. This is only a problem for going through the town centre you can still travel round but it might take 10 minutes more

[Hibs4185]

No danger I’m taking my classic car into the city centre, it breaks down too often! I’d cause carnage

[superfurryhibby]

You don't teleport into the cowgate though so slow down tlb7s traffic heading to town. The point is to stop traffic heading towards town. They also say decreasing cars will enable them to add routes and capacity.

You weren't talking about businesses in the area but they are effected by cars. People like to go where there are no cars in cities, trade improves without them.

The fact is we need cars of the road and this is a way with good benefits. We don't want it to be easy for cars we want people cycling and using public transport. We can't sit and watch the world's temperatures increase and say but I prefer my convenience

You could also say that people who live and work in the city need not be as inconvenienced by unnecessary road closures. Edinburgh isn't Disneyland and whilst tourism is a huge part of our economy, this can't always take precedence at all times. There's a huge challenge in the city around the impact of tourism, gentrification and questions around when the city centre reaches saturation point.

We all want a cleaner , greener city, but closing main arterial roads in central Edinburgh isn't always the answer.

[Stairway 2 7]

You could also say that people who live and work in the city need not be as inconvenienced by unnecessary road closures. Edinburgh isn't Disneyland and whilst tourism is a huge part of our economy, this can't always take precedence at all times. There's a huge challenge in the city around the impact of tourism, gentrification and questions around when the city centre reaches saturation point.

We all want a cleaner , greener city, but closing main arterial roads in central Edinburgh isn't always the answer.

It is if if we are to reduce driving by 20% by 2030, driving makes up 25% of our co2. We need to make it as difficult as possible for drivers. The planet is on a knife edge and people don't want to inconvenience themselves.

I don't think this is about gentrification as 40% of the lowest 20% earners don't have cars compared to 9% of the top 20%. Quicker more plentiful buses and trams will disproportionately help the working class.

No one is stopping public transport going in and through the city, use a park and ride or walk for a bit if you can. There will be more bus services due to this yes it's an inconvenience but we have no choice

[superfurryhibby]

It is if if we are to reduce driving by 20% by 2030, driving makes up 25% of our co2. We need to make it as difficult as possible for drivers. The planet is on a knife edge and people don't want to inconvenience themselves.

I don't think this is about gentrification as 40% of the lowest 20% earners don't have cars compared to 9% of the top 20%. Quicker more plentiful buses and trams will disproportionately help the working class.

No one is stopping public transport going in and through the city, use a park and ride or walk for a bit if you can. There will be more bus services due to this yes it's an inconvenience but we have no choice

Being concerned about the imp-act of over saturation of tourism isn't necessarily the same as concerns about gentrification, although no doubt there are social ramifications.

Climate change is complex and I feel ordinary people are often part of a blame game-guilt trip. WE can recycle all we want, but there is a relentless economic focus on consuming. Buy new compliant (electric-not so green) cars, build loads of new houses on the green belt (with no infrastructure of course), encourage a tourist economy and visitors at all costs (who of course will mostly fly, drive, cruise ship). Do you not see any irony around this?

For a planet on a knife edge , I'm not aware of much radical change. Still going to be driving cars (electric vehicle, carbon footprint), still importing huge amounts of food from all over the place, flying around on holidays.

There's a lot of lip service though.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm in Glasgow just now for a few gigs in celtic connections and it's a relative pleasure to wander along large section of Argyll St, all of Buchanan St and sauchiehall St with no traffic, just having to worry about traffic at streets that cross them. I imagine George street will be like this. The bit of the high street in Edinburgh between George IV Bridge and the Bridges is the same relaxed traffic free environment. Rose street is a disaster though.

[hibee]

It is if if we are to reduce driving by 20% by 2030, driving makes up 25% of our co2. We need to make it as difficult as possible for drivers. The planet is on a knife edge and people don't want to inconvenience themselves.


I thought it was all transport types that made up 25% of CO2 not just us driving cars.

The planet may be on a knife edge but if we continue to ignore China and make it worse by buying everything from them and sending it here on filthy ships there’s not much point in us closing a few roads in the city centre.

They did try to clean up ships but instead of using cleaner fuel they now just use scrubbers to divert the pollution into the sea as it’s so much cheaper for them.

I don’t know what the solution is but if the worst polluters don’t care then the planet is in trouble no matter what we do in our little country.

[Stairway 2 7]

I thought it was all transport types that made up 25% of CO2 not just us driving cars.

The planet may be on a knife edge but if we continue to ignore China and make it worse by buying everything from them and sending it here on filthy ships there’s not much point in us closing a few roads in the city centre.

They did try to clean up ships but instead of using cleaner fuel they now just use scrubbers to divert the pollution into the sea as it’s so much cheaper for them.

I don’t know what the solution is but if the worst polluters don’t care then the planet is in trouble no matter what we do in our little country.

It's domestic transport that makes up 25% so cars vans lorries but cars makes up 90 odd % of that. There is no better way of us cutting carbon than reducing our driving. People won't do that on their own so the gov and council have to. It's not popular to do this so I'm glad all parties bar tories and lib dems are wanting to do this.

We could say what about them to everything we can only do what we can and that is reach net zero. We can't as a nation be a net carbon producer and look at people dying in the global South with our conscience clear. Why should we give aid to countries abroad who have war or famine if other nations don't ect ect

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm in Glasgow just now for a few gigs in celtic connections and it's a relative pleasure to wander along large section of Argyll St, all of Buchanan St and sauchiehall St with no traffic, just having to worry about traffic at streets that cross them. I imagine George street will be like this. The bit of the high street in Edinburgh between George IV Bridge and the Bridges is the same relaxed traffic free environment. Rose street is a disaster though.

Every city that has brought in measures that I've seen has had anger against and then the public approve post.

I said yesterday but Ghent had riots and anger when they brought this in. Then 3 years post the vast majority wanted it extended. Its not just for tourists it's for us to have a centre worth spending time in. Just now the city is dying and it's a car park. Obviously the climate is the most important factor but a city we can all enjoy will be great

[RyeSloan]

Every city that has brought in measures that I've seen has had anger against and then the public approve post.

I said yesterday but Ghent had riots and anger when they brought this in. Then 3 years post the vast majority wanted it extended. Its not just for tourists it's for us to have a centre worth spending time in. Just now the city is dying and it's a car park. Obviously the climate is the most important factor but a city we can all enjoy will be great

Was Ghent left with just two very poor options for their traffic to get East / West though?

While I get your point surely each City has its own challenges so a direct read across is not really possible.

Closing the cowgate creates a real challenge esp. if and when it’s combined with closing the park and the bridges and the mound.

And while cutting car use is a worthy objective of the actions just pushing cars onto the very few already congested and poorly designed routes that remain you achieve nothing but even more congestion and pollution.

[Ozyhibby]

Was Ghent left with just two very poor options for their traffic to get East / West though?

While I get your point surely each City has its own challenges so a direct read across is not really possible.

Closing the cowgate creates a real challenge esp. if and when it’s combined with closing the park and the bridges and the mound.

And while cutting car use is a worthy objective of the actions just pushing cars onto the very few already congested and poorly designed routes that remain you achieve nothing but even more congestion and pollution.

I’m pretty sure every city that this happens to will have people saying ‘you can’t do that here’ or ‘our city just isn’t designed for that’. Dublin is having the exact same discussions now and you could almost copy and paste the same discussions from message boards and newspaper comment sections.
Once it’s all done we will wonder why we gave over so much of our city to cars.
Amsterdam did this 30 years ago and they have never looked back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.fastcompany.com/90321627/these-8-cities-are-taking-bold-steps-to-get-rid-of-cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Amsterdam did this 30 years ago and they have never looked back.
Amsterdam has somewhat fewer hills than Edinburgh. And they have a ready made alternative means of navigating around the city in canals. Plus a long established tram system. Not the best example.

[Stairway 2 7]

Was Ghent left with just two very poor options for their traffic to get East / West though?

While I get your point surely each City has its own challenges so a direct read across is not really possible.

Closing the cowgate creates a real challenge esp. if and when it’s combined with closing the park and the bridges and the mound.

And while cutting car use is a worthy objective of the actions just pushing cars onto the very few already congested and poorly designed routes that remain you achieve nothing but even more congestion and pollution.

Ghent allowed no through access at all they were much stricter than us. They split their city into 7 sections and you can only go into one section, you can't travel from one section to another you need to go out then back in another sector. You have to drive round the centre rather than goingthrough. The very centre section is no cars at all bar deliveries early morning

[grunt]

Ghent allowed no through access at all they were much stricter than us. They split their city into 7 sections and you can only go into one section, you can't travel from one section to another you need to go out then back in another sector. You have to drive round the centre rather than goingthrough. The very centre section is no cars at all bar deliveries early morning
Ghent is less than half the size of Edinburgh. I'm not sure in what other ways they are comparable.

[Ozyhibby]

Ghent is less than half the size of Edinburgh. I'm not sure in what other ways they are comparable.

They are doing this in London, Paris, Madrid etc. Not small cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Amsterdam has somewhat fewer hills than Edinburgh. And they have a ready made alternative means of navigating around the city in canals. Plus a long established tram system. Not the best example.

Amsterdam is a good example as everyone drove , tram use was limited and cycling non existent, canals have never been a serious mode of public transport their and still isn't. The great tram system grew from less cars. Electric bikes are booming in the uk and make Edinburgh a doddle cost pennies compared to cars too. In Ghent the car drivers mostly switched to public transport but bike use did increase too

Look at the pics what would you prefer
2766427665

[Stairway 2 7]

They are doing this in London, Paris, Madrid etc. Not small cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paris are going heavily with this Barcelona, Oslo, Helsinki,
San Francisco too, new York looking at it in Manhattan

[grunt]

They are doing this in London, Paris, Madrid etc. Not small cities.


Paris are going heavily with this Barcelona, Oslo, Helsinki,
San Francisco too, new York looking at it in Manhattan
None of these are closing the Cowgate to traffic.

[J-C]

In the mean time the council are issuing around 15 new PHC licenses per week when the roads are crammed with PHC cars already, add in the council giving a license to Bright buses to operate a regular bus service to the airport from Waterloo Pl adding further to the congestion, this city and this council are a joke.

[tamig]

In the mean time the council are issuing around 15 new PHC licenses per week when the roads are crammed with PHC cars already, add in the council giving a license to Bright buses to operate a regular bus service to the airport from Waterloo Pl adding further to the congestion, this city and this council are a joke.

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.

[grunt]

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken.
They did go round the city and they did a survey identifying streets where it would be a problem. They went ahead anyway.

[tamig]

They did go round the city and they did a survey identifying streets where it would be a problem. They went ahead anyway.

Absolutely mental.

[J-C]

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.

Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've just been in the transport museum in Glasgow this morning, how did they manage with horse drawn carriages, they are as wide as Hummers!!!

[Ozyhibby]

I've just been in the transport museum in Glasgow this morning, how did they manage with horse drawn carriages, they are as wide as Hummers!!!

Only millionaires had them so it wasn’t such a big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibee]

Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

Both problem streets now have cones down one side in preparation for double yellow lines being painted next week.

[Stairway 2 7]

Both problem streets now have cones down one side in preparation for double yellow lines being painted next week.

Best way to do it. The amount of times I've had to walk along the road with a buggy is unreal, scary. Loads of times the dropped curb is blocked, it must be a nightmare to be in a wheelchair in Edinburgh which is embarrassing. Hopefully it will get better with the ban

[speedy_gonzales]

Last week in Marlborough St in Porty a bucket lorry and a fire engine had to reverse out as they couldn't get through because of parked cars.

I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

[J-C]

I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.

[hibee]

I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.

Probably most of them, you’d have to be a bit mad to even try and drive down never mind park there if you didn’t live in the street, plenty more suitable streets for non residents to park in.

[speedy_gonzales]

I live in Portobello and there's a pic of a reversing bin lorry on Porty people on FB from a resident there, how many of those cars are for residents.
Apologies, I don't doubt the bin lorry had to reverse up the (Marlborough) street but the fire engine was staged. It wasn't on a call, it was there to prove a point.

[SteveHFC]

I can't be sure about the bin lorry, but the fire engine was a test conducted by the emergency services, the council and the local residents(I think there was a SPOKES person behind it too). Just to be clear, this wasn't an emergency call out and demonstrated the need for further restrictions such as the lines being implemented under a temporary road traffic order.

Cllr Arthur? Sure he's a member of Spokes.

[J-C]

Apologies, I don't doubt the bin lorry had to reverse up the (Marlborough) street but the fire engine was staged. It wasn't on a call, it was there to prove a point.

Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

[Ozyhibby]

Yellow lines and parking meters should sort out a few of these issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Itsnoteasy]

Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

Just because you don't live in Porty your still allowed to walk your dog wherever you want to in public & park your car there.

[Jack]

Just because you don't live in Porty your still allowed to walk your dog wherever you want to in public & park your car there.

Wherever you park, for whatever reason you should do so responsibly taking into account other road (and pavement) users.

If a fire engine or bin lorry can't get down the street because of parked vehicles that's irresponsible.

[hibee]

Not denying the fire engine one, that was to prove a point after the complaint about the bin lorry not able to empty the bins in the street. If you go down to the prom you'll dozens of dog walkers along the beach, many of them don't live in Portobello, they go down by car and park in the surrounding streets, summertime is a complete shambles down there.

The people without dogs massively outnumber the people with dogs, unless it’s a day like today when everyone is hiding in their house apart from the dog walkers and joggers.

It’s mainly the residents that are blocking the streets and parking on both sides of the road because they don’t want a walk to their door. Yes there’s some visitors in the daytime but they’re not responsible for the streets still being blocked overnight.

I don’t understand the people who are going for a 3 mile walk but insist on trying to get parked as close to the beach as possible. I’ve moved away from Porty now but when I do go back for a walk with the dog I park at the other end of Seaview Terrace, it’s only an extra 5 minutes on the walk and saves a lot of hassle or the car getting damaged!

[J-C]

The people without dogs massively outnumber the people with dogs, unless it’s a day like today when everyone is hiding in their house apart from the dog walkers and joggers.

It’s mainly the residents that are blocking the streets and parking on both sides of the road because they don’t want a walk to their door. Yes there’s some visitors in the daytime but they’re not responsible for the streets still being blocked overnight.

I don’t understand the people who are going for a 3 mile walk but insist on trying to get parked as close to the beach as possible. I’ve moved away from Porty now but when I do go back for a walk with the dog I park at the other end of Seaview Terrace, it’s only an extra 5 minutes on the walk and saves a lot of hassle or the car getting damaged!

My point is we already have the residents taking up a very large amount of space, add in dog walkers, joggers and general tourists out for a prom walk and the surrounding streets are carnage, Portobello has become extremely popular this past few years and it's bulging at the seams, I live 10min walk from the beach so thankfully don't need a car. :greengrin

[Pete70]

Agreed. The latest no pavement parking fiasco shows their basic lack of planning skills and no forward thinking. They should have gone round every street in the city beforehand and decided where it could be implemented rather than the blanket approach taken. I was driving along Lochend Avenue last night and my wee motor could barely get through. Fire engines would have no chance. And Lothian Buses have had to divert away from that street. Just one example of the lack of thinking involved.


The Lothian Buses 25 has been diverted from Lochend Drive onto restalrig Road South, Marionville Road then down Lochend Road South. The 21 still goes along Lochend Avenue.

[tamig]

The Lothian Buses 25 has been diverted from Lochend Drive onto restalrig Road South, Marionville Road then down Lochend Road South. The 21 still goes along Lochend Avenue.

I actually meant Lochend Drive.

[Itsnoteasy]

Just noticed on EC trade parking permits, there is an annual fee of £50 added to the cost of your monthly permit for diesel vans, even if it is Ulez compliant 🙄

[Stairway 2 7]

This won't help good old Edinburgh Council not helping the transition to cycling

https://discerningcyclist.com/worst-bike-lanes/?fbclid=IwAR3H1vlLXZFOPSObZJbUyT8Gc3l7-zob6dcNVs8xQOUaP42tgLB55ehtDUg

13 Worst Bike Lanes in the World

[Ozyhibby]

This won't help good old Edinburgh Council not helping the transition to cycling

https://discerningcyclist.com/worst-bike-lanes/?fbclid=IwAR3H1vlLXZFOPSObZJbUyT8Gc3l7-zob6dcNVs8xQOUaP42tgLB55ehtDUg

13 Worst Bike Lanes in the World

There are plans in to fix the problem. I walked up the walk last night after the game and there needs to be better separation of pedestrians and cyclists. Easy fixed with some planter boxes and benches etc but def needs done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mon Dieu4]

There are plans in to fix the problem. I walked up the walk last night after the game and there needs to be better separation of pedestrians and cyclists. Easy fixed with some planter boxes and benches etc but def needs done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The fix should be to scrap it and redo it with the cycle lane beside the road, the way it should have been from the start

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1759791686656655450?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1759791686656655450?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Only one comment so far, from a driver complaining that it makes his life difficult. :faint:

[Itsnoteasy]

Only one comment so far, from a driver complaining that it makes his life difficult. :faint:

There's more cyclists in that 3 minute clip than I have ever seen in Edinburgh

[Ozyhibby]

There's more cyclists in that 3 minute clip than I have ever seen in Edinburgh

Yes, we have a long way to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Itsnoteasy]

Yes, we have a long way to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

[hibee]

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

Or too cold and wet?

[Ozyhibby]

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

No, I think it’s culture. It takes time to change behaviour but slowly it is happening. I’m seeing a lot more folk on bikes than I did 5 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Do you think it's a case of Edinburgh not being flat enough or that people don't feel safe to cycle on these roads

Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

[superfurryhibby]

Poor cycling infrastructure, which is improving in fairness. The rise in cycling in Edinburgh has been huge in the last 10 years, probably helped by electric bikes making the worst hills a doddle.

Amsterdam was 100% a car city before the council decided it would be a cycling city, closed roads to cars and added miles of cycling lanes. If Edinburgh closes uptown to cars as planned then cycling will rocket their

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

[Ozyhibby]

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Not really seeing a huge rise in cyclists tbh, I think you’re exaggerating the level of increase, same with e-bikes. There are more but still massively outnumbered by conventional bikes.

There’s no comparison between Amsterdam and Edinburgh, one is opretty flat and already had a strong cycle culture, always has done. The other is a very hilly city with a miserable windy climate.

In the uk in the 40s 40% of uk journeys were by bike and Holland did cycle more with 60%. It collapsed in both countries in Holland down to 20% uk totally to 1%. In Amsterdam journeys went from 25% in 1970 to 48% now

We'll probably never reach that but we should be trying to increase it as much as we can not compare ourselves to the most cycled city in the world. Spokes records city centre cycling twice a year and they say cycling numbers have doubled at commuting times, I'm not sure the accuracy but it certainly seems to be increasing massively
http://www.spokes.org.uk/2023/05/city-centre-traffic-count-bike-numbers-keep-growing/

Under 10% of bikes sold are ebikes but they must do a much higher mileage. Must be a good quarter or higher in the centre being ebikes but that's due to most delivery drivers having zoomos.

If the city centre goes car free I'm hopeful the numbers will finally make a move from the low point they are at. If we can even get 10% off cars onto bikes then that'll be thousands of miles of less carbon emissions and the NHS will be delighted too

[Stairway 2 7]

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

[Ozyhibby]

What about London in February in the rain, look what happens when you put in good cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/CS3Count/status/1757898106266595708

London cycle lanes are absolutely mobbed. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

I’d imagine the weather isn’t great in Scandinavia and yet they cycle far more than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

[lapsedhibee]

Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Edinburgh hills would probably be an insurmountable challenge for the sit-up-and-beg bikes that many flat-city people ride, but with the right gearing on bikes the hills are really not that scary. Largely single-digit percentage inclines.

[speedy_gonzales]

I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.
I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/300613871/got-hills-no-problem-these-cities-with-inclines-have-embraced-bikes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

I had to check a couple of online resources to reassure myself, but there isn't a massive difference in weather between Edinburgh & Amsterdam, no more than a few degrees when it comes to min/max average temps. Same goes for precipitation. Wind is a bit bigger difficult to measure but both are temperate/maritime climates.
As someone who is a utility cyclist (only cycle to work/back) I found wind and hills were the enemy but a very low level e-bike has levelled the playing field over the last year.
I love my 15 minutes (regardless of weather) commute. It's no slower than taking the car, much faster than the bus and it's good for my mental well being.

I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-loving-finnish-city-that-keeps-pedalling-even-in-the-snow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I think in your imagination is about right.

Maybe their cities are less hilly or maybe you’re just saying anything for the sake of being contrary?

Comparison between cycling in a city built on hills and one that is largely flat is not a great starting point. That’s before you take into account a climate that is very different. Amsterdam is warmer, drier and as a result, much more cycle friendly than Edinburgh.

I suspect your lack of insight comes from not really having much experience of cycling in Edinburgh? Anyone who has actually done this knows that the hills and weather are a challenge.

Amsterdam is a city I have known well for many decades, cycling has always been a huge part of city life. Whilst there is potential to make Edinburgh more cycle friendly, it’s never going to become as widespread as it is in the Dam.

He said they cycle more in Scandinavia which is colder than us and you continued to speak about Amsterdam the greatest cycling city in the world. 30% of travel in Copenhagenis by bike a massive number although its much colder and with heavier snow in winter, it also has and about the same amount of rain as us so that obviously isn't a factor.

Zurich a hilly city got its cycle rates from 2% of journeys to 8% of journeys in 10 years, it's also got almost double the rain we have that was all down to cycling infrastructure. Lisbon much hillyer than us has managed to double the cycling rate through adding miles of cycling lanes and pedestrianising. Antwerp has increased cycling 59% in 10 years, mostly due to the plan we are trying to copy in the city centre

Just comparing against Amsterdam is daft we'll never match that and aren't aiming to. We only should worry about ourselves. There is no reason that Scotland can't increase its cycling rates by double or quadruple like other wetter, hillyer and colder cities have managed

[Paul1642]

The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

[Ozyhibby]

The weather is no doubt a factor but not as big as infrastructure. The hills can’t be changed so just gotta enjoy them when you’re on the way down :). I don’t cycle as much as a I would like to, mainly due to

1) Shift work. Don’t enjoy cycling home in the early hours of the morning and then having to shower imperially before going to bed.

2) Training for running events means I need to save the legs for runs at times.

Disregarding these two factors though and I tend to cycle most day shifts from mid spring through to mid Autumn as it’s generally enjoyable whereas winter cycling is a slog for me.

The infrastructure is also a huge game changer. I choose to cycle to work a route (shawfair cycle path) which is around double the distance on a route that is majority cycle path over the much shorter but all road route (which includes a chuck of the a7 and sheriff hall). The enjoyment is so much more on a route which is designed for cycling rather than dodging the giant potholes at the side of every road and knowing that when you swerve to avoid them your taking your life into your own hands.

We can’t change the weather, we can’t change the hills, but we can invest in better infrastructure because at the moment it’s pretty terrible really.

Infrastructure could transform cycling in Edinburgh. Just need people to get behind it. Need less space for cars and more for bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[speedy_gonzales]

I did the same and the level of rainfall is significantly higher in Edinburgh. The average temp difference may not be huge, but Edinburgh has colder wintersand as you say, wind chill is a factor.
Genuinely don't wish to distract from the thread or be a pedant but a simple Google search for "average Edinburgh rainfall" Vs "average Amsterdam rainfall" returns 685mm to Edinburgh and 850mm to Amsterdam.
I'm not sure why we always compare any town/city that wishes to improve cycling uptake to Amsterdam, but it does always seem to be the sole point of reference.
I cycle all year round and very rarely need to wear full waterproofs. Genuinely, I reckon less than 10 times a year.
Anyhoo, back to Congestion charging and LEZ's....

[Berwickhibby]

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

[Stairway 2 7]

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

[Stairway 2 7]

Tram passengers have doubled since Newhaven route opening. It's hugely popular thanks to more of the city being covered

https://edinburghtrams.com/news/millions-more-tram-trips-following-launch-new-line

More than seven million tram trips were recorded by the operator in the second half of 2023, compared to 3.4 million during the same period the previous year.

[speedy_gonzales]

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

The vast majority of cyclists already have the 3rd party insurance, almost all unknowingly.
Most home insurance policies cover first party property and third party liability claims if your out on your bike.

[hibee]

So electric cars should pay no road tax but bikes should? Its linked to emissions. Never understood people saying they should pay it

Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

[Stairway 2 7]

Electric cars will be paying road tax from next year.

Too many new cars were exempt so they’ve changed the rules so they can still tax us, not sure exactly what the changes are but I think only the first years tax will be based on emissions now.

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

[Ozyhibby]

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

Absolutely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[speedy_gonzales]

Didn't realise that not surprised with the Tories in charge. It still should be heavily weighted on emissions. It also should be vehicle weight and size like France is doing, as that is what damages the road. You'd need 100 bikes to compare with the average car weight, some SUVs are just ridiculous

Damage to the road due to the weight of the vehicle needs to be factored in. Private transport in general is subsidised, we don't pay anything close to the actual true cost (health, environmental, infrastructure).
A lot of folk are quite rightly complaining about the state of the roads around Edinburgh & beyond, the collapsed culvert at Cameron Toll a significant case in point. However, few folk want to concede that vehicle ownership has more than doubled in the last 30 years, and over the same time, the weight of the "average" vehicle has increased 25-30%. Basic maths means the roads are getting 2.5 times the damage, 2.5 times the potholes, they won't be getting 2.5 times the funding (inflation adjusted).

[Paul1642]

Perhaps the time is right to introduce bike tax for using public highways and cycle paths, also a cyclists must have minimum 3rd party insurance.

To what benefit? We should be trying to get as many people cycling as possible, not making it more expensive.

It would also be a near unenforceable decision. Are we suggesting putting registration plates on bikes? See the complete lack of enforcement in regards to e-scooters which technically should be registered, insured and the rider have a licence to drive on a road. Times that by 100 for the number of cyclists.

I assume kids go free in this plan? 😂

[Moulin Yarns]

Just been to Dundee, ULEZ comes into effect end of May. Everyone needs to be ready as they become more normal.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1773377290371531263?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1773377290371531263?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They all moved away because of the smell of horse ****!

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68768598?at_link_id=490379AE-F654-11EE-94A2-A2D98B997A01&at_campaign_type=owned&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_format=link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_link_type=web_link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Damage to the road due to the weight of the vehicle needs to be factored in. Private transport in general is subsidised, we don't pay anything close to the actual true cost (health, environmental, infrastructure).
A lot of folk are quite rightly complaining about the state of the roads around Edinburgh & beyond, the collapsed culvert at Cameron Toll a significant case in point. However, few folk want to concede that vehicle ownership has more than doubled in the last 30 years, and over the same time, the weight of the "average" vehicle has increased 25-30%. Basic maths means the roads are getting 2.5 times the damage, 2.5 times the potholes, they won't be getting 2.5 times the funding (inflation adjusted).
I'd wager the weather is at least a big a factor as well as the quality of the workmanship in building and maintaining the roads. Everything is now done on cost rather than value and the UK infrastructure is dreadful. There may well be double the cars on the road but they are much more efficient and produce far less emissions than cars back in the day. Totally agree with your point about weight of vehicles. I'd love to see how many cars drive through Edinburgh City Centre now compared to 30 years ago. The city as a whole (https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/local-authorities/29) hasn't seen the growth in traffic you have described and I suspect the centre of Edinburgh will have less miles travelled than the 1990s as it is so painful to drive through.

I am actually in favour of trying to reduce car use in cities and encourage cycling and lower impact forms of transport. The problem for me is that there is no real vision and no bravery to change Edinburgh completely. Everything is half-hearted and just causes resentment from both sides. Be bold and if you want central Edinburgh to be car free then let residents know win good time(5-10 years) and come up with a plan that can make it happen.

A few years old but since the Scottish Parliament was formed until 2020 car ownership (https://spice-spotlight.scot/2022/08/26/is-there-a-war-on-the-motorist/) had only increased by 38%

[Hibs4185]

I seen people down south putting bat boxes over the cameras. Council can’t remove them due to bat boxes being protected.

[superfurryhibby]

Edinburgh's emission zone charges appear ridiculously high, another easy source of cash for the council no doubt.

[Ozyhibby]

Edinburgh's emission zone charges appear ridiculously high, another easy source of cash for the council no doubt.

I don’t think councils have many ‘easy’ sources of cash?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

I seen people down south putting bat boxes over the cameras. Council can’t remove them due to bat boxes being protected.

Bat boxes aren't protected if there is no evidence of bats. Very easy to check.

[superfurryhibby]

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

[Ozyhibby]

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

I’d say the opposite. The charges are too high to provide a long term income stream. People with non compliant vehicle will avoid Edinburgh and the charge. Just ask Berwickhibby. It looks designed to stop the most polluting vehicles from coming into the city.
Should help Edinburgh council not be sued by a bunch of old ladies in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

People may not realise this but cities around Britain are taking very different approaches to ULEZ and how it's implemented. We are going down the cash cow and milking it senseless route . Our charges are not reasonable.


https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research 😅

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

[Callum_62]

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research [emoji28]

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.I think vans may be the main issue

Doesn't affect me in the slightest though

Smug electric driver [emoji6][emoji38]

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research ��

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

My car is compliant, however my van is not even though it’s regularly serviced, low milage lawfully compliant with MOT, business insurance and taxed. The Ulez lack of dispensation will force prices up for the public …I have lost a few central Edinburgh contracts and the slack has been picked up by others…the extra cost will be met by the client.

[overdrive]

Does anyone know anyone with a non LEZ compliant car? Apart from Berwickhibby.

I know 2. One said he's never near the zones so it won't affect him. The other lives in the zone and although very faux angry knew his clapped out old banger should have been changed years ago!

I've just done a wee bit of Google research ��

The average car in the UK is less than 10 years old and on average will be scrapped when 16. I tried to find the number or percentage of vehicles actually affected. Alas, I couldn't find it but while I suspect the number will look big the percentage will be very low.

Diesel cars are not compliant at average age and most petrol cars will have been scrapped.

A guy I know has one. He commutes into the LEZ zone and parks in his work car park which is, unfortunately for him, not that far into the LEZ. He's ordered a new car but it won't be ready until September so I think he's getting the train until then.

[Ozyhibby]

My car is compliant, however my van is not even though it’s regularly serviced, low milage lawfully compliant with MOT, business insurance and taxed. The Ulez lack of dispensation will force prices up for the public …I have lost a few central Edinburgh contracts and the slack has been picked up by others…the extra cost will be met by the client.

I doubt the number of non compliant vehicles will affect price inflation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers

[Ozyhibby]

Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers

One thing opponents have correct about this is it is the thin end of the wedge. Once the infrastructure is in place then it will be used to gradually reduce the number of cars that can use the city centre. And the area covered by it will grow.
And we’ll all be better for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[McD]

Know a car driver and she says she never drives in centre and its easy to go round. About 3 boys with work vans two of who are constantly fuming on twitter. Think the numbers of cars effected are so low that it'll make no difference in what it's wanting to achieve.

The plan next is that no cars will be able to drive through town just in and out of one quarter. If that passes I think that will have more impact to car and environment numbers


If that comes to pass, the bypass will be overwhelmed, causing massive queues and more pollution

[Ozyhibby]

If that comes to pass, the bypass will be overwhelmed, causing massive queues and more pollution

Or more people will get the bus?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

I doubt the number of non compliant vehicles will affect price inflation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Try telling that to the couples booking music for their weddings, it has increased by £250 in 2024.

[Stairway 2 7]

Mass building of cycleways and closing streets has created a cycling revolution in Paris

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2024/04/06/french-revolution-cyclists-now-outnumber-motorists-in-paris/?sh=342a1dda3640

[Ozyhibby]

Mass building of cycleways and closing streets has created a cycling revolution in Paris

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2024/04/06/french-revolution-cyclists-now-outnumber-motorists-in-paris/?sh=342a1dda3640

Yes but that wouldn’t work here.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

I’d say the opposite. The charges are too high to provide a long term income stream. People with non compliant vehicle will avoid Edinburgh and the charge. Just ask Berwickhibby. It looks designed to stop the most polluting vehicles from coming into the city.
Should help Edinburgh council not be sued by a bunch of old ladies in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a non compliant vehicle and live in Edinburgh.

In case anyone other than Oz is interested Edinburgh charges are exorbitant. Many cities across the UK are taking a different route. Some are exempting cars and only focusing on commercial vehicles. Some are charging the likes of £10.00 day (initially at least) for non compliant vans, higher for buses. Edinburgh seems to have the highest and most restrictive approach.

Speaking personally, I'll just drive around the ULez. It will make my journey longer and no doubt I'll use more Diesel in doing so and cause more congestion in peripheral areas. My car is a 13 years old and has only done 90,000k, I'll not be selling it. I don't routinely drive through town that often, so a bit of a compromise for me, but not that hard to overcome.

Nothing easier than introducing punitive charges for non compliant vehicles.

There are widely varying approaches to implementing ULEZ, Edinburgh has opted for the cash cow and a right good milking.

https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk read this and weep :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

I have a non compliant vehicle and live in Edinburgh.

In case anyone other than Oz is interested Edinburgh charges are exorbitant. Many cities across the UK are taking a different route. Some are exempting cars and only focusing on commercial vehicles. Some are charging the likes of £10.00 day (initially at least) for non compliant vans, higher for buses. Edinburgh seems to have the highest and most restrictive approach.

Speaking personally, I'll just drive around the ULez. It will make my journey longer and no doubt I'll use more Diesel in doing so and cause more congestion in peripheral areas. My car is a 13 years old and has only done 90,000k, I'll not be selling it. I don't routinely drive through town that often, so a bit of a compromise for me, but not that hard to overcome.

Nothing easier than introducing punitive charges for non compliant vehicles.

There are widely varying approaches to implementing ULEZ, Edinburgh has opted for the cash cow and a right good milking.

https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk read this and weep :greengrin

I think charging £8 would be a cash cow as people might pay it. No one will pay Edinburghs huge fines.

I'd prefer all cars penalised but I'm sure that will come, hopefully the plan for through traffic comes

[Berwickhibby]

I think charging £8 would be a cash cow as people might pay it. No one will pay Edinburghs huge fines.

I'd prefer all cars penalised but I'm sure that will come, hopefully the plan for through traffic comes

Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

[Ozyhibby]

Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

Absolutely, which is why accusations of the council doing it to make money are wide of the mark. They genuinely want to stop pollution in the city centre. There are legal requirements on them to do so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Rather pay £8 voluntary than being punished with fines up to £480 for 3 breaches within 10 months

Yeah defo most will be the same very few will pay the huge fine deliberately.

[Moulin Yarns]

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

[Ozyhibby]

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

It’s everywhere across Europe and everywhere will need to start complying or else people will start to bring legal action against authorities who don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

Can we clear up the misconception that this edinburgh council.

Here is Glasgow

https://glasgow.gov.uk/30224

I imagine Dundee and Aberdeen are the same. So get it out of your minds that edinburgh is any different to other ULEZ fines.

Yes but Scotland is the only country in the UK that do not offer dispensation for vehicles to enter for a fee…straight to enforcement and punishment

[Moulin Yarns]

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

[Stairway 2 7]

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

That's if you don't pay the £8 the other link said. Not that it matters Scotland are free to make different rules to England if they want, I prefer ours although I'd have restrictions for all drivers if we want to make a difference

[Berwickhibby]

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

You can pay an £8 charge to take a no compliant vehicle into Birmingham

[Ozyhibby]

You can pay an £8 charge to take a no compliant vehicle into Birmingham

No consolation for the people who have to breathe in the poisonous fumes from the offending vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[McD]

Or more people will get the bus?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



More probably will, but many won’t, some may not be able to. And commercial vehicles won’t be able to get the bus.

I’m not against ulez, I’m just not convinced we’ve applied it in the best way. For the record, my car is compliant, and even then it never goes into the city centre. I get the train whether it’s for work (my office is right in the city centre) or pleasure

[Pretty Boy]

Am I the only person who wouldn't dream of taking their car into town regardless of this?

It's not designed for cars, parking and traffic are a nightmare and the only real motive I have to go near the centre of Edinburgh as a destination in itself is to get pished anyway.

Obviously there are issues for those working or passing through for work or commuting purposes and also those with mobility issues and so on. I'd struggle to believe that the majority of people actively travelling into town as a destination in itself aren't already using undertaking at least part of the journey on public transport or on foot currently though. It seems almost impossible from an infrastructure point of view that wouldn't be the case.

[superfurryhibby]

Birmingham ULEZ fines


The standard penalty charge is £120 and you have up to 28 days to pay the standard charge from the date of issue of the PCN

https://www.bumper.co/blog/ulez-cities-uk

ow much is the Birmingham CAZ charge?
The Birmingham CAZ costs £9 for non-compliant petrol and diesel cars. This is operated 24/7 on every day of the year. Larger vehicles such as buses and HGVs pay £50.

Just as the ULEZ, the charging period runs from midnight to midnight, meaning you’ll have to pay £18 if your journey extends past midnight.

How to pay the Birmingham CAZ charge?
The general gov.uk clean air zone portal is the best tool for checking and paying CAZ charges. It allows you to pay up to 6 days before and after the journey.

To check if your car will be charged, and pay the Birmingham CAZ fee, use the gov.uk website.

[superfurryhibby]

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

[Moulin Yarns]

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

According to Google maps you could do it by bike in 30 minutes. 🚲😉

[Stairway 2 7]

According to Google maps you could do it by bike in 30 minutes. 🚲😉

Close to 20 minutes by electric bike, heard Edinburgh is close to getting getting a new bike sharing system set up with lots of them electric which should be good

[wookie70]

Took the bus to my office today. 1hour and six minutes door to door, from the Inch to Victoria Quay. That was with me watching the live app and leaving with only a 5 minutes waiting time. There was a ten minute walk at the end of the trip.

My observations were that the slow speed was mostly caused by waiting at bus stops with people alighting and queues of buses at the same stop, traffic wasn't very heavy at all.

By contrast my car journey would have been around 30 mins tops door to door. I'll not be taking the bus again anytime soon.

I live in Midlothian and my office is at Meadowbank. An average bus journey would be 90 minutes and cost the price of a day ticket, maybe around a fiver. My car would take around 30 minutes and cost about 2 quid in fuel(servicing etc won't cost extra as it is done once a year but brakes etc would have additional cost) and to cycle it would take around 35-40 minutes. Walking would be around 3 hours. I think a reasonably fit runner would beat the bus quite easily. I would rule out walking on time, rule out running on fitness and would only ever take the bus if my car and bike were out of commission. It is slow, uncomfortable and a horrible way to travel. Imo bus journeys are the lowest form of transport so I avoid if possible.

I used to cycle to work unless the weather was terrible but that stopped with the Borders railways stealing the initial part of my route. Still waiting to see the promised replacement of all the routes that were lost. I'm lucky to now work from home and apart from Hibs and any photography jobs I avoid Edinburgh as much as possible. If the city was designed around cycling and buses and it banned the vast majority of vehicles then I think that would work well. As it is it is the worst of all scenarios for all forms of transport.

[Pretty Boy]

I live in Midlothian and my office is at Meadowbank. An average bus journey would be 90 minutes and cost the price of a day ticket, maybe around a fiver. My car would take around 30 minutes and cost about 2 quid in fuel(servicing etc won't cost extra as it is done once a year but brakes etc would have additional cost) and to cycle it would take around 35-40 minutes. Walking would be around 3 hours. I think a reasonably fit runner would beat the bus quite easily. I would rule out walking on time, rule out running on fitness and would only ever take the bus if my car and bike were out of commission. It is slow, uncomfortable and a horrible way to travel. Imo bus journeys are the lowest form of transport so I avoid if possible.

I used to cycle to work unless the weather was terrible but that stopped with the Borders railways stealing the initial part of my route. Still waiting to see the promised replacement of all the routes that were lost. I'm lucky to now work from home and apart from Hibs and any photography jobs I avoid Edinburgh as much as possible. If the city was designed around cycling and buses and it banned the vast majority of vehicles then I think that would work well. As it is it is the worst of all scenarios for all forms of transport.

I used to walk or run to my old workplace and the latter was much quicker than the bus (30 mins v about 45 mins). Walking was not that much slower. On a good day it was a 12-15 minute drive. I chose to walk or run most days as it was personal preference, even in the cold of winter it was usually more pleasant than the bus.

I'm now about 12 miles from work so walking is really out of the question. (from a time rather than fitness perspective) I currently get the train some days, Brunstane to Waverley then on to Edinburgh park, which is about half an hour all in including connections if you time it right. Add another 10-15 minutes total for walking either end. That's about £4.20 return so on a par with the prices of the bus. Driving is about 25 minutes at the times I drive in, it would be longer if I was at rush hour but I start early and finish early. I've cycled once so far and that was about 50 minutes and was pleasant enough, will definitely do it more in the summer months.

I've tried 3 different buses and the quickest I have managed is 70 minutes not including the walk at either end. That basically means getting up at 4.45 if I want to make work for 7 or 3.45 if I want to do the gym first. One is a single decker only route as well so even at non peak times is totally rammed. I appreciate the need to use public transport more and become less reliant on private cars but public transport just isn't in a good enough place for any sudden increase in demand. Edinburgh has a pretty decent bus service as well, I've lived places far worse off so god only knows what people in those places must think. I will use the bus, there's no snobbery or whatever involved, I just find them slow, unpleasant and increasingly unreliable which means if I really can't afford to be late for something I would explore all other options first.

[superfurryhibby]

Close to 20 minutes by electric bike, heard Edinburgh is close to getting getting a new bike sharing system set up with lots of them electric which should be good


20 mins my erchie. Why even bother making stuff up...... made me laugh though.

I cycled lots, even to VQ. 30 minutes is about right. It's mostly downhill to Leith, certainly after Newington. Of course, then you need to change , shower etc at the end of your journey. Then there is all the kit I carry. Laptop, mobile phones, packed lunch, towel, clothes etc.

No advantage really on an electric bike and not everyone can afford one either.

I'll be taking the car.

[Stairway 2 7]

20 mins my erchie. Why even bother making stuff up...... made me laugh though.

I cycled lots, even to VQ. 30 minutes is about right. It's mostly downhill to Leith, certainly after Newington. Of course, then you need to change , shower etc at the end of your journey. Then there is all the kit I carry. Laptop, mobile phones, packed lunch, towel, clothes etc.

No advantage really on an electric bike and not everyone can afford one either.

I'll be taking the car.

Google is usually close to spot on with cycling times I've found and it says 28 minutes journey, I find electric bikes knock of a third compared to my city bike or my car in town. I did ocean terminal to King's buildings similar distance at just over 20 minutes this week. You nip to the front of traffic and sit at its 16mph limit most of the way. You can get anything you want in saddle bags and your keeping fit and help save the planet. Electric bikes journeys are similar and faster than most journeys in the city, will be much faster through the city if the driving restrictions come in to the centre

You've called me and Oz a liar today just because we have disagreed with the one who knows, some lad

[superfurryhibby]

Google is usually close to spot on with cycling times I've found and it says 28 minutes journey, I find electric bikes knock of a third compared to my city bike or my car in town. I did ocean terminal to King's buildings similar distance at just over 20 minutes this week. You nip to the front of traffic and sit at its 16mph limit most of the way. You can get anything you want in saddle bags and your keeping fit and help save the planet. Electric bikes journeys are similar and faster than most journeys in the city, will be much faster through the city if the driving restrictions come in to the centre

You've called me and Oz a liar today just because we have disagreed with the one who knows, some lad

Calm down. If Oz doesn't like anything I've said , |I sure they are well able to speak for themselves.....unless of course you and they are in fact one person.

You initially said the journey would be 20 mins, someone else said that Google said 30 mins, you now say 28 mins on Google and 20 mins from your experience. I know from travelling from VQ to the Inch for years that it can't be done in 20 mins though, even on my motorcycle. I'll trust my own experience on this one over yours.

[Hibrandenburg]

Google is usually close to spot on with cycling times I've found and it says 28 minutes journey, I find electric bikes knock of a third compared to my city bike or my car in town. I did ocean terminal to King's buildings similar distance at just over 20 minutes this week. You nip to the front of traffic and sit at its 16mph limit most of the way. You can get anything you want in saddle bags and your keeping fit and help save the planet. Electric bikes journeys are similar and faster than most journeys in the city, will be much faster through the city if the driving restrictions come in to the centre

You've called me and Oz a liar today just because we have disagreed with the one who knows, some lad

A pedalec was my best investment last year. I work pretty much bang in the centre of Berlin but live about 10km outside of town. I used to cycle both ways but hated the waste of time it took to shower and change twice a day, now I cycle to the next train station from my village and take the train into work and then cycle home. Bike/train takes about 55 minutes and the cycle home about 75 minutes but the 20 minutes is acceptable because I've exercised 75 minutes in total. ¾ of the journey is on decent cycle paths about half of which are like bike motorways next to the rail lines with no need to stop at lights or junctions. If I want to get a good workout I just need to travel faster than 25kph and the electric motor cuts out or if I want an easy ride then I can cruise at under that speed with little effort.

[Stairway 2 7]

What are you talking about? I don't agree with you, that's all. Sounds like you're being a bit of a drama queen.

There's disagreeing and saying people are making stuff up. There's no drama here the site is full of opinions and mine is as wrong as any other its but Friday and I'm meeting the box of toys, have a braw weekend

[Ozyhibby]

There's disagreeing and saying people are making stuff up. There's no drama here the site is full of opinions and mine is as wrong as any other its but Friday and I'm meeting the box of toys, have a braw weekend

That’s what I’m doing? Wait, hang on a minute…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

There's disagreeing and saying people are making stuff up. There's no drama here the site is full of opinions and mine is as wrong as any other its but Friday and I'm meeting the box of toys, have a braw weekend

You two, have a good one.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/school-streets-1/school-streets
More car free zones being implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[speedy_gonzales]

https://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/school-streets-1/school-streets
More car free zones being implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't have a massively strong opinion either way about these schemes but there's zero point installing them if there's no enforcement.
The one around Gylemuir Primary was regularly ignored by parents that knew better and this morning I was nearly taken out by a PHC that turned in to Barton Mains Wynd (Juniper Green PS) on the wrong side of the road to get around the planter that's placed there.

[jamie_1875]

I saw a post from a local councillor saying 95% of vehicles are already compliant. Does it make business sense to develop a scheme costing millions for the 5%?

Generally if you have 95% compliance then most people would say job done.

[Ozyhibby]

I saw a post from a local councillor saying 95% of vehicles are already compliant. Does it make business sense to develop a scheme costing millions for the 5%?

Generally if you have 95% compliance then most people would say job done.

Nobody would admit it but I imagine the infrastructure is being put in place to increase the conditions on vehicles as time goes by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edina Street]

I saw a post from a local councillor saying 95% of vehicles are already compliant. Does it make business sense to develop a scheme costing millions for the 5%?

Generally if you have 95% compliance then most people would say job done.

It doesn't.

And I don't want to get on my high horse about this subject as I might have a bias regarding this subject due to a vested interest that clouds my judgement and has me crying first and researching and thinking later.

However I truly believe that the council are actually not stupid, and would not spend millions on going after the 5%.

I suspect that they are merely using the fact that 95% of people will not give two hoots about the 5% and will not campaign against the installment of Cameras that will later be used against the 95% that don't have electric cars.

But then, perhaps even if that were true, it might not be a bad thing in order to save the planet.

[SteveHFC]

Elm Row left turn ban to be lifted. Great news.

[speedy_gonzales]

Elm Row left turn ban to be lifted. Great news.

Does this mean that pedestrians are going to have a much longer wait to cross(this was one of the main reasons given for the current sequence)?

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/glasgow-city-council-make-1m-in-low-emission-zone-fines-in-ten-months

Hope they fund more cycle ways with the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/glasgow-city-council-make-1m-in-low-emission-zone-fines-in-ten-months

Hope they fund more cycle ways with the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fleecing motorists …lawful robbery in my opinion

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/new-poll-shows-increasing-support-for-low-emission-zones-across-scotland

60% support for the ULEZ in Scotland 👍

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/new-poll-shows-increasing-support-for-low-emission-zones-across-scotland

60% support for the ULEZ in Scotland [emoji106]

Beware of noisy minorities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibee]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/new-poll-shows-increasing-support-for-low-emission-zones-across-scotland

60% support for the ULEZ in Scotland [emoji106]

600 people from a survey conducted by an Asthma charity is hardly a majority of Scottish people, sounds like one of Edinburgh councils consultation schemes!

[Ozyhibby]

600 people from a survey conducted by an Asthma charity is hardly a majority of Scottish people, sounds like one of Edinburgh councils consultation schemes!

Fake news.[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

600 people from a survey conducted by an Asthma charity is hardly a majority of Scottish people, sounds like one of Edinburgh councils consultation schemes!

Survey commissioned by athsma charity but conducted by market research company.

[Mon Dieu4]

Does this mean that pedestrians are going to have a much longer wait to cross(this was one of the main reasons given for the current sequence)?

The current sequence was based on total lies, I remember reading the study they did at the time and they claimed that in an hour long spell only about 8 cars had turned from Leith Walk into London Road, I mentioned at the time it was total bull**** and now they have had to backtrack as 900 cars have done it in a week when it's banned

[J-C]

Funnily enough the most congested street in Edinburgh with the highest emissions is Costorphine Rd/St John Rd, there will be zero enforcements or changes to make that area better, why?

[Just Alf]

Funnily enough the most congested street in Edinburgh with the highest emissions is Costorphine Rd/St John Rd, there will be zero enforcements or changes to make that area better, why?It makes you wonder why the tram didn't come in that way.

[Ozyhibby]

Funnily enough the most congested street in Edinburgh with the highest emissions is Costorphine Rd/St John Rd, there will be zero enforcements or changes to make that area better, why?

No changes in Corstorphine?[emoji102]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

It makes you wonder why the tram didn't come in that way.

The main road heading west from the city and each rush hour you'll see nose to tale traffic in both directions, same can also be said about Stockbridge almost all day from 8am onwards. The new zone is so small it'll make absolutely no difference to emissions in the town, it's simply the councils way to annoy drivers to get them off the road to push through their Tram/Cycle vanity project. We have Park and rides all around Edinburgh that are hardly used, city centre parking and city centre multi storey carparks literally inviting drivers into Edinburgh city centre, and then the council complain about congestion, they create it and then moan about it.

Edinburgh is a **** show nowadays, most people hate coming here due to the hassle of it, add in the overly expensive hotels/airbnb's too, the city has been gradually ruined over the past 10-15 years.

[Ozyhibby]

The main road heading west from the city and each rush hour you'll see nose to tale traffic in both directions, same can also be said about Stockbridge almost all day from 8am onwards. The new zone is so small it'll make absolutely no difference to emissions in the town, it's simply the councils way to annoy drivers to get them off the road to push through their Tram/Cycle vanity project. We have Park and rides all around Edinburgh that are hardly used, city centre parking and city centre multi storey carparks literally inviting drivers into Edinburgh city centre, and then the council complain about congestion, they create it and then moan about it.

Edinburgh is a **** show nowadays, most people hate coming here due to the hassle of it, add in the overly expensive hotels/airbnb's too, the city has been gradually ruined over the past 10-15 years.

You say nobody comes but also how busy it is and how over priced it is?
Edinburgh is bursting at the seems with both tourists and citizens. It needs more housing and more hotels. It also needs a lot less cars. Our roads can’t cope with the amount we have now. The more we force people onto public transport or active travel the better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edina Street]

You say nobody comes but also how busy it is and how over priced it is?
Edinburgh is bursting at the seems with both tourists and citizens. It needs more housing and more hotels. It also needs a lot less cars. Our roads can’t cope with the amount we have now. The more we force people onto public transport or active travel the better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We need more Bus Gates.

More plant pots blocking off roads as well.

Btw.

Does anyone know a practical route from Queen Charlotte Street to Dundas Street nowadays? I am currently driving round and round in circles in an alternate reality.

[J-C]

You say nobody comes but also how busy it is and how over priced it is?
Edinburgh is bursting at the seems with both tourists and citizens. It needs more housing and more hotels. It also needs a lot less cars. Our roads can’t cope with the amount we have now. The more we force people onto public transport or active travel the better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Currently sitting in big queue of traffic in the Pleasance while there's 4 way lights at the junction of Holyrood Rd as 2 guys sit in there works van on their phones doing sod all.

Then we have the massive amount of private tour buses crawling around doing their private tours, to add to the big red and orange tours creeping around.

I speak to tourists all the time in my job, they love Edinburgh but hate the traffic and the costs for a holiday here.

[Ozyhibby]

Currently sitting in big queue of traffic in the Pleasance while there's 4 way lights at the junction of Holyrood Rd as 2 guys sit in there works van on their phones doing sod all.

Then we have the massive amount of private tour buses crawling around doing their private tours, to add to the big red and orange tours creeping around.

I speak to tourists all the time in my job, they love Edinburgh but hate the traffic and the costs for a holiday here.

Yip, it’s time to get rid of the traffic and build more accommodation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Yip, it’s time to get rid of the traffic and build more accommodation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There has to be a balance, trams and bikes at all cost isn't the answer,get all these wee women in massive 4x4 SUV's taking their 1 kid to the Academy off the streets, most live in the New Town.

Edinburgh has become hugely popular with tourists in the last 15 years or so, great for trade and businesses but we have a council he'll bent on closing roads for no reason and sticking planters on streets just to seemingly annoy the locals. Perfect example is the Shore area and Coburg St, no right turn at the foot of Constitution St so you then go straight ahead, do a u turn and then left turn into Baltic St, genius.

[Ozyhibby]

There has to be a balance, trams and bikes at all cost isn't the answer,get all these wee women in massive 4x4 SUV's taking their 1 kid to the Academy off the streets, most live in the New Town.

Edinburgh has become hugely popular with tourists in the last 15 years or so, great for trade and businesses but we have a council he'll bent on closing roads for no reason and sticking planters on streets just to seemingly annoy the locals. Perfect example is the Shore area and Coburg St, no right turn at the foot of Constitution St so you then go straight ahead, do a u turn and then left turn into Baltic St, genius.

I suppose the council are doing what they can with the powers they have. They should go full congestion charge though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

I suppose the council are doing what they can with the powers they have. They should go full congestion charge though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The LEZ is tiny, all its doing is pushing all the traffic onto other streets, just wait for the next stage of the trams going up Nth Br.towards RIE, all traffic forced up and down Lothian Road, oh joy.

[Ozyhibby]

The LEZ is tiny, all its doing is pushing all the traffic onto other streets, just wait for the next stage of the trams going up Nth Br.towards RIE, all traffic forced up and down Lothian Road, oh joy.

Almost make you want to get the bus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Almost make you want to get the bus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thing is there's plenty buses all over the city, always have been but now they're competing with trams abs cycle lanes in small narrow Edinburgh streets.

[lapsedhibee]

There has to be a balance, trams and bikes at all cost isn't the answer,get all these wee women in massive 4x4 SUV's taking their 1 kid to the Academy off the streets, most live in the New Town.

Edinburgh has become hugely popular with tourists in the last 15 years or so, great for trade and businesses but we have a council he'll bent on closing roads for no reason and sticking planters on streets just to seemingly annoy the locals. Perfect example is the Shore area and Coburg St, no right turn at the foot of Constitution St so you then go straight ahead, do a u turn and then left turn into Baltic St, genius.
Definitely women's fault. :agree:

[hibee]

Almost make you want to get the bus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t believe the constant bullying of drivers and council made congestion will push many more onto the bus.

Councillors always go on about what a great bus service there is in Edinburgh and it may be great if you’re travelling a mile in the city but buses are not the answer for people further out of town.

I tried the bus for a while when I lived in Musselburgh, 7 miles could take 1.5hrs, there’s far too many stops. It’s just a horrible way to travel and nothing will persuade me to return to them regularly. I prefer to stay out of Edinburgh completely now and give my business to other more welcoming places.

[J-C]

Definitely women's fault. :agree:

Wasn't meant to come across that way, I just see so much of it in my job, huge massive SUV's with wee women driving a car that's far too big for them to park and get through traffic and mostly living in the new town, go along Cumberland St, Northumberland St, Gt King St and you'll see every 2nd car is a big 4x4 of some sort parked up taking up half the width of the wee street, Chelsea tractors I think they were called.

[McD]

Wasn't meant to come across that way, I just see so much of it in my job, huge massive SUV's with wee women driving a car that's far too big for them to park and get through traffic and mostly living in the new town, go along Cumberland St, Northumberland St, Gt King St and you'll see every 2nd car is a big 4x4 of some sort parked up taking up half the width of the wee street, Chelsea tractors I think they were called.



Do you keep a tally of their size and gender? Presumably it’s only women who can’t park them, and that you’re able to tell where they live just by looking at the them or their car?


The valid point you’re making is being drowned out by your prejudice, you say your original comment wasn’t meant to come across that way, then doubled down on it in the same sentence.


Also, many SUVs aren’t 4x4, they’re not the same thing.

[Ozyhibby]

Do you keep a tally of their size and gender? Presumably it’s only women who can’t park them, and that you’re able to tell where they live just by looking at the them or their car?


The valid point you’re making is being drowned out by your prejudice, you say your original comment wasn’t meant to come across that way, then doubled down on it in the same sentence.


Also, many SUVs aren’t 4x4, they’re not the same thing.

Those cars need taxed out of the cities. It’s no just the pollution but also the increased congestion due to their size and the damage they do to the roads costs us all more than they are worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

Those cars need taxed out of the cities. It’s no just the pollution but also the increased congestion due to their size and the damage they do to the roads costs us all more than they are worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used to own a huge 7 series BMW and there were regular debates about the alleged damage caused by bigger cars on the forums I was on then.

The counter argument to yours is that the larger cars have almost always had the best tech and that included to minimise pollution. Indeed there was the oft quoted Lamborgini that actually produced cleaner exhaust than the air it took in in larger cities like London, pre ULEZ.

Because these cars have huge tyres the weight is distributed as evenly on the road as smaller cars with narrower tyres, some claimed fancy suspension on the bigger cars made them better.

Just because a car is bigger it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad for the environment. Just as no-one could ever suggest the tiny Trabant was environmentally friendly!

That was some years ago, I've gone car free.

[Ozyhibby]

I used to own a huge 7 series BMW and there were regular debates about the alleged damage caused by bigger cars on the forums I was on then.

The counter argument to yours is that the larger cars have almost always had the best tech and that included to minimise pollution. Indeed there was the oft quoted Lamborgini that actually produced cleaner exhaust than the air it took in in larger cities like London, pre ULEZ.

Because these cars have huge tyres the weight is distributed as evenly on the road as smaller cars with narrower tyres, some claimed fancy suspension on the bigger cars made them better.

Just because a car is bigger it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad for the environment. Just as no-one could ever suggest the tiny Trabant was environmentally friendly!

That was some years ago, I've gone car free.

I have never seen any report saying heavier vehicles damage roads less than lighter ones? They also take up huge amounts of parking space and cause longer traffic congestion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[McD]

Those cars need taxed out of the cities. It’s no just the pollution but also the increased congestion due to their size and the damage they do to the roads costs us all more than they are worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


None of which has anything to do with points I made though.


I don’t disagree with things needing to change, there does need to be a balance struck, for example, a large family will likely need a larger car.


I'm honestly not sure what the best solution is, I don’t think we’ve found it yet, but I am in favour of change.

[McD]

I have never seen any report saying heavier vehicles damage roads less than lighter ones? They also take up huge amounts of parking space and cause longer traffic congestion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No disagreement here. What does need to be called out is that the average size of cars has increased over the last couple of decades, a Corsa now is as big as an Astra was not that long ago, whilst the roads haven’t got any bigger (smaller in some cases with extended pavements, cycle lanes etc), and I think it’s also a fair comment to say that the authorities don’t repair roads as well/use the same quality of road elements as previously

[Stairway 2 7]

I have never seen any report saying heavier vehicles damage roads less than lighter ones? They also take up huge amounts of parking space and cause longer traffic congestion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Usually use more petrol which is obviously the main thing for net zero. Driving takes up such a large part of our co2 make up that we simply have to reduce our miles driven. People say they want net zero but at the same time don't want to sit on a bus when car is quicker or walk or cycle 20 minutes.

Obviously cars will be needed for some journeys but we can all drive less. Its not popular for politicians but the public aren't doing it voluntarily in fact we're driving more each year, so politicians have to take the unpopular decision and close roads and make driving in the city a nightmare. Symbolism and words won't get net zero cutting driving will

[lapsedhibee]

Those cars need taxed out of the cities. It’s no just the pollution but also the increased congestion due to their size and the damage they do to the roads costs us all more than they are worth.


All very well suggesting that people stop driving Chelsea tractors in the town, and suggesting they use smaller cars, bicycles, their feet, public transport, etc, but you've not provided any suggestion at all how to deal with the main driver of their use, namely, how to display excess wealth outside your own postcode.

[Ozyhibby]

All very well suggesting that people stop driving Chelsea tractors in the town, and suggesting they use smaller cars, bicycles, their feet, public transport, etc, but you've not provided any suggestion at all how to deal with the main driver of their use, namely, how to display excess wealth outside your own postcode.

A VW Golf with gold rims.[emoji6][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Do you keep a tally of their size and gender? Presumably it’s only women who can’t park them, and that you’re able to tell where they live just by looking at the them or their car?


The valid point you’re making is being drowned out by your prejudice, you say your original comment wasn’t meant to come across that way, then doubled down on it in the same sentence.


Also, many SUVs aren’t 4x4, they’re not the same thing.

I drive a taxi and see these vehicles every day in the New Town of Edinburgh, try driving along some of these narrow streets taken up by huge petrol guzzling 3ltr SUV's, not just the New Town BTW but all over the centre of town, as has been said the size of cars has increased and with small narrow streets that we have, these vehicles are unsuitable for city centre travel, purely a status symbol nowadays.

[Stairway 2 7]

I drive a taxi and see these vehicles every day in the New Town of Edinburgh, try driving along some of these narrow streets taken up by huge petrol guzzling 3ltr SUV's, not just the New Town BTW but all over the centre of town, as has been said the size of cars has increased and with small narrow streets that we have, these vehicles are unsuitable for city centre travel, purely a status symbol nowadays.

Worse is the 4x4 all terrain monsters that haven't seen mud in their lives. The amount of people that take their kids to school by car is shocking, not all will have no choice, same with football training ect at weekends

[Itsnoteasy]

Wasn't meant to come across that way, I just see so much of it in my job, huge massive SUV's with wee women driving a car that's far too big for them to park and get through traffic and mostly living in the new town, go along Cumberland St, Northumberland St, Gt King St and you'll see every 2nd car is a big 4x4 of some sort parked up taking up half the width of the wee street, Chelsea tractors I think they were called.

It can't be women driving in all the above streets mentioned as 9.5/10 chances are the car needs reversed into a space 😉

[McD]

I drive a taxi and see these vehicles every day in the New Town of Edinburgh, try driving along some of these narrow streets taken up by huge petrol guzzling 3ltr SUV's, not just the New Town BTW but all over the centre of town, as has been said the size of cars has increased and with small narrow streets that we have, these vehicles are unsuitable for city centre travel, purely a status symbol nowadays.



I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here.

The only addition I’d make to this point, is that those huge SUV’s do cause a huge amount of problems, but there are many smaller SUV style cars that aren’t any bigger than other cars’ footprints, of which a huge proportion have 1ltr and 1.2ltr engines. For example, a Vauxhall cross lane has a similar footprint to a Corsa, the Grandland similar to an Astra, in terms of the space they take up.

I completely agree about the huge Audi Q7s and similar sized vehicles, they are unnecessarily oversized, as are some saloon cars.


Many manufacturers are turning to SUV type cars, Volkswagen for example must have about 7 of those styles in their range when you include crossover types. Perhaps some government legislation about maximum car sizes could help? More heavily tax the purchase and use of cars over a certain physical size and/or engine size? I’m asking that as a genuine point, I’m keen to hear other’s viewpoints on how we fix a growing problem whilst still supporting people’s abilities to move themselves and families around towns and cities.

I think a multi-tier approach may be the best way to address the situation - traffic infrastructure given better investment and maintenance, affordable, reliable and not overly time consuming public transport, incentives (positive and negative) to get out the car and use public transport, huge efforts put into public awareness of the damage (on all levels) caused by excessive traffic, joined up approaches with governments and local authorities all singing from the same hymn sheet across Scotland and the uk, and probably more than that. All of that costs a lot of money though.


On a related point, I’m interested in your thoughts J-C, as a taxi driver, and anyone else who is on the city centre frequently - logic would suggest that in this new age of hybrid working and working from home being much more prevalent than pre-covid, that the volume of traffic would be less than pre-covid, but evidence such as you’ve given here, and from others, and my own experience, is that traffic seems even busier/greater than before covid, what do you think?

[Pretty Boy]

I've long been primarily a pedestrian in Edinburgh. I have a car and use it but for years my 5 mile each way commute was a walk. I've recently moved location and my 10 mile (also each way) commute is now a cycle. One of the things that has always got me over the years is the claim that Edinburgh as a city 'hates motorists'. The city is still massively carcentric and infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists, whilst improved, is still miles behind cities in Scandinavia, the Netherlands or even London.

Add to that the stigma around cycling. Even guys I get on well with in work have started with the 'bike nonce' patter. I can take a joke so just laugh it off but it's something that seems to transcend political divides. I saw a well kent lefty talking about 'pedalphiles' the other day and suggesting that active travel was somehow 'bourgeois' (ironic really because I largely made the choice to cycle to my new office because the additional petrol costs were excessive). I can have a laugh and know some of that is banter but I'm not convinced fuelling the fire of a conflict between motorists and cyclist and pedestrians is healthy and there is undoubtedly groups for whom it's not a joke and it a deep seated nastiness.

I don't think either our public transport or non motorised infrastructure is anywhere near good enough to tempt enough people out of their cars yet. At the time I travel I can drive my commute in 20 minutes or cycle it in 40. The bus takes 65 minutes on a good day. Until that improves people are going to persist with their cars as plenty won't be willing or simply won't have the time to add 90 minutes to their working day in travel time.

[J-C]

I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here.

The only addition I’d make to this point, is that those huge SUV’s do cause a huge amount of problems, but there are many smaller SUV style cars that aren’t any bigger than other cars’ footprints, of which a huge proportion have 1ltr and 1.2ltr engines. For example, a Vauxhall cross lane has a similar footprint to a Corsa, the Grandland similar to an Astra, in terms of the space they take up.

I completely agree about the huge Audi Q7s and similar sized vehicles, they are unnecessarily oversized, as are some saloon cars.


Many manufacturers are turning to SUV type cars, Volkswagen for example must have about 7 of those styles in their range when you include crossover types. Perhaps some government legislation about maximum car sizes could help? More heavily tax the purchase and use of cars over a certain physical size and/or engine size? I’m asking that as a genuine point, I’m keen to hear other’s viewpoints on how we fix a growing problem whilst still supporting people’s abilities to move themselves and families around towns and cities.

I think a multi-tier approach may be the best way to address the situation - traffic infrastructure given better investment and maintenance, affordable, reliable and not overly time consuming public transport, incentives (positive and negative) to get out the car and use public transport, huge efforts put into public awareness of the damage (on all levels) caused by excessive traffic, joined up approaches with governments and local authorities all singing from the same hymn sheet across Scotland and the uk, and probably more than that. All of that costs a lot of money though.


On a related point, I’m interested in your thoughts J-C, as a taxi driver, and anyone else who is on the city centre frequently - logic would suggest that in this new age of hybrid working and working from home being much more prevalent than pre-covid, that the volume of traffic would be less than pre-covid, but evidence such as you’ve given here, and from others, and my own experience, is that traffic seems even busier/greater than before covid, what do you think?

Rush hour traffic on certain days is less but the main problem is the new tram system, road closures, diversions and roadworks makes getting about the place a nightmare. Someone mentioned getting from Queen Charlotte St to Dundas St and what way would be easiest. As there is no left on Constitution St or any way through to the shore it's a joke, either right at Constitution St, Bernard St, Shore, Cables Wynd, Bonnington Rd, Broughton Rd, Eyre Pl and then Dundas St. Or through the Links to Duke St, Leith Walk, McDonald Rd, the Bonnington Rd etc.

I'd also add that with all the new tramways and cycleways narrowing all the main thoroughfares, these routes are crammed with cars even outwith the rush hour due to less lanes for the cars to drive in causing bottlenecks, add in new traffic light sequences that seem to fight against each other meaning it's all stop and go (if you've driven down Leith walk you'll know what I mean).

[lapsedhibee]

Add to that the stigma around cycling. Even guys I get on well with in work have started with the 'bike nonce' patter. I can take a joke so just laugh it off but it's something that seems to transcend political divides. I saw a well kent lefty talking about 'pedalphiles' the other day and suggesting that active travel was somehow 'bourgeois' (ironic really because I largely made the choice to cycle to my new office because the additional petrol costs were excessive). I can have a laugh and know some of that is banter but I'm not convinced fuelling the fire of a conflict between motorists and cyclist and pedestrians is healthy and there is undoubtedly groups for whom it's not a joke and it a deep seated nastiness.

Such a shame that social media, and the internet in general, allow the 'thoughts' of Joey Barton to disseminate so quickly and so widely. Or indeed at all.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've long been primarily a pedestrian in Edinburgh. I have a car and use it but for years my 5 mile each way commute was a walk. I've recently moved location and my 10 mile (also each way) commute is now a cycle. One of the things that has always got me over the years is the claim that Edinburgh as a city 'hates motorists'. The city is still massively carcentric and infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists, whilst improved, is still miles behind cities in Scandinavia, the Netherlands or even London.

Add to that the stigma around cycling. Even guys I get on well with in work have started with the 'bike nonce' patter. I can take a joke so just laugh it off but it's something that seems to transcend political divides. I saw a well kent lefty talking about 'pedalphiles' the other day and suggesting that active travel was somehow 'bourgeois' (ironic really because I largely made the choice to cycle to my new office because the additional petrol costs were excessive). I can have a laugh and know some of that is banter but I'm not convinced fuelling the fire of a conflict between motorists and cyclist and pedestrians is healthy and there is undoubtedly groups for whom it's not a joke and it a deep seated nastiness.

I don't think either our public transport or non motorised infrastructure is anywhere near good enough to tempt enough people out of their cars yet. At the time I travel I can drive my commute in 20 minutes or cycle it in 40. The bus takes 65 minutes on a good day. Until that improves people are going to persist with their cars as plenty won't be willing or simply won't have the time to add 90 minutes to their working day in travel time.

Admittedly this is from the 1970s, but I lived in wester hailes and worked at the west end. My mum worked at John menzies in the middle of Princes Street. There were no bus lanes back then. I could walk to and from work in less time than my mum on the bus.

[Just Alf]

It can't be women driving in all the above streets mentioned as 9.5/10 chances are the car needs reversed into a space [emoji6]Oh oh!

[RyeSloan]

So LEZ landed today and guess what…High Street and surrounding areas nose to tail top to bottom all day. Thousands of tourists being forced to suck in all the idling traffic emissions.

Why?

Park closed (hardly a soul in sight near the road)

Temp traffic lights at bottom of St Mary’s St.


God knows that the tourists must have thought of clean air Edinburgh if they were anywhere near there today!

[Ozyhibby]

So LEZ landed today and guess what…High Street and surrounding areas nose to tail top to bottom all day. Thousands of tourists being forced to suck in all the idling traffic emissions.

Why?

Park closed (hardly a soul in sight near the road)

Temp traffic lights at bottom of St Mary’s St.


God knows that the tourists must have thought of clean air Edinburgh if they were anywhere near there today!

Sounds like it’s best leave the car at home if you want to go into the city.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/number-of-people-using-edinburgh-cycle-path-named-worst-in-the-world-increases

Even poorly designed cycle ways increase the amount of people using bikes. The more we build cycle lanes the better for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/number-of-people-using-edinburgh-cycle-path-named-worst-in-the-world-increases

Even poorly designed cycle ways increase the amount of people using bikes. The more we build cycle lanes the better for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't looked back since getting my bike a couple of months ago.

Most of my commute is off road but there is a nice wee cycle lane at St Leonards and again approaching the Meadows that I use and they definitely help make everything feel a bit safer.

I had to drive to work the other day and was pining for my bike, I had forgotten how much the Bypass annoys me. In terms of time the bike only adds about 5-7 minutes each way to my day and on days when there is a breakdown or accident on the Bypass it's quicker.

[Bristolhibby]

Why not electric busses and Taxies? Got off at Heathrow on Monday coming back from Germany and waiting for my bus, nearly every taxi was an e Taxi. Solves the clean air issue and good for carbon neutrality.

J

[Ozyhibby]

Why not electric busses and Taxies? Got off at Heathrow on Monday coming back from Germany and waiting for my bus, nearly every taxi was an e Taxi. Solves the clean air issue and good for carbon neutrality.

J

E vehicles solve the air issue but not the congestion issue. There are just too many vehicles for our roads. And it’s not helped by them all getting bigger and heavier.
Buses and Taxis help but not as much as bikes and e-bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Why not electric busses and Taxies? Got off at Heathrow on Monday coming back from Germany and waiting for my bus, nearly every taxi was an e Taxi. Solves the clean air issue and good for carbon neutrality.

J

LEV taxis have range of around 80 miles, then it's over to a petrol engine, cost around £70k.

[grunt]

Recognise these Edinburgh houses, this Edinburgh street with the LTN in place?

It's in the quiet Edinburgh suburb called Manchester ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVmDnWjWgAAGDNU?format=png&name=900x900

[Jack]

Recognise these Edinburgh houses, this Edinburgh street with the LTN in place?

It's in the quiet Edinburgh suburb called Manchester ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVmDnWjWgAAGDNU?format=png&name=900x900

Edinburgh Live do this so often it's ridiculous.

It's as if they don't expect anyone from Edinburgh will notice their stories or photos or both are unrelated to Edinburgh!

Who cares these days? It's just about the clicks.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wales reducing the speed limit to 20mph in all built up areas caused a 32% reduction in casualties. Insurance claims dropped 20% and it saved the NHS and other emergency services millions. It's a no brainer really

https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-transport-today/news/76112/large-reduction-in-road-casualties-in-welsh-built-up-areas-after-20mph-limit

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw8envvv0do

Unexpected consequences. 40% of children walked or cycled to school in London since the introduction of the ULEZ. Win,win.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw8envvv0do

Unexpected consequences. 40% of children walked or cycled to school in London since the introduction of the ULEZ. Win,win.

The more we discourage cars from our cities, the better our quality of life will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

The more we discourage cars from our cities, the better our quality of life will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saw a study that said 2000 people switched from driving to cycling half an hour each way. At the end of 12 months they lost on average 14 lbs. Obesity costs the NHS £6.5 billion per year yet people complain about the money spent on active travel, it's money in the bank from saving the NHS. That's not including money spent on mental health which exercise shows to benefit or cities that seem to flourish with less cars

[Stairway 2 7]

17,000 LEZ fines in the first 3 months in Edinburgh. Surprised the numbers are consistent across the 3 months thought there would be a larger drop off

https://archive.is/6hQdv

[J-C]

17,000 LEZ fines in the first 3 months in Edinburgh. Surprised the numbers are consistent across the 3 months thought there would be a larger drop off

https://archive.is/6hQdv

I see absolutely no difference in traffic congestion since it all kicked in, a big money making scheme.

[tamig]

I see absolutely no difference in traffic congestion since it all kicked in, a big money making scheme.

Agreed.

[CropleyWasGod]

I see absolutely no difference in traffic congestion since it all kicked in, a big money making scheme.

Is it about congestion, though? If emissions have been reduced in the centre, that's the main aim, isn't it? Money, and less congestion, would be a bonus.

I think there needs to be a longer-term study of (all) its effects before we can properly assess whether it has been successful.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is it about congestion, though? If emissions have been reduced in the centre, that's the main aim, isn't it? Money, and less congestion, would be a bonus.

I think there needs to be a longer-term study of (all) its effects before we can properly assess whether it has been successful.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/children-switch-to-walking-and-cycling-to-school-after-introduction-of-londons-ultra-low-emission

The first study of London LEZ is positive.

[J-C]

Is it about congestion, though? If emissions have been reduced in the centre, that's the main aim, isn't it? Money, and less congestion, would be a bonus.

I think there needs to be a longer-term study of (all) its effects before we can properly assess whether it has been successful.

Congestion causes pollution, does the air realise it's not allowed over the city centre, when the wind blows, pollution travels, there are as many cars now as there was prior to the exclusion zones, moving it from George St to Queen St doesn't get rid of it, it just moves it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Funny enough just now in the Herald. I do think it's a shame generally the people with less income have older cars. I think it'll just be getting set up as this and when older cars naturally get phased out they will switch to congestion charge. Especially as they will get used to that money being in the budget

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24608391.glasgows-lez-makes-promising-start-air-pollution-levels-drop/

Glasgow’s Low Emission Zone is having a promising impact on air pollution according to new data released.

The latest Air Quality Annual Progress Report shows that levels of nitrogen dioxide in the city centre and LEZ area has dropped by 20 percent compared to diffusion tube monitoring from the previous year

[lapsedhibee]

Congestion causes pollution, does the air realise it's not allowed over the city centre, when the wind blows, pollution travels, there are as many cars now as there was prior to the exclusion zones, moving it from George St to Queen St doesn't get rid of it, it just moves it.

Are you missing the main point of LEZ, that it discourages the worst of polluting vehicles from coming in to the city centre? Don't think anyone was pretending that it would stop pollution. (1) Every little helps. (2) Rome wasn't built in three months.

[J-C]

Are you missing the main point of LEZ, that it discourages the worst of polluting vehicles from coming in to the city centre? Don't think anyone was pretending that it would stop pollution. (1) Every little helps. (2) Rome wasn't built in three months.

I realise that but the size of the LEZ is ridiculous, to make a proper impact it has to be a much wider area, certain part of Edinburgh has not changed and in fact seem worse, Corstorphine and Stockbridge as examples, I drive a taxi and have seen almost little difference in the amount of traffic still coming through the city centre area. During the summer the huge increase tour buses and tourist cars caused the usual mayhem around the Mound, St Andrews Sq, Waterloo Pl and Nth Bridge/E End. Just look at the carnage around Picardy area with the new traffic system around the tram stop where everything comes to a halt as all the cars slowly bit by bit make their way around that area. The ideas are well meaning but the implementation of the traffic systems in Edinburgh are just shocking.

[lapsedhibee]

I realise that but the size of the LEZ is ridiculous, to make a proper impact it has to be a much wider area, certain part of Edinburgh has not changed and in fact seem worse, Corstorphine and Stockbridge as examples, I drive a taxi and have seen almost little difference in the amount of traffic still coming through the city centre area. During the summer the huge increase tour buses and tourist cars caused the usual mayhem around the Mound, St Andrews Sq, Waterloo Pl and Nth Bridge/E End. Just look at the carnage around Picardy area with the new traffic system around the tram stop where everything comes to a halt as all the cars slowly bit by bit make their way around that area. The ideas are well meaning but the implementation of the traffic systems in Edinburgh are just shocking.

Yes, Picardy Place is not great (or York Place, feeding in to it). Are you arguing for the introduction of a prohibitive congestion charge, to help solve the problems you mention?

[J-C]

Yes, Picardy Place is not great (or York Place, feeding in to it). Are you arguing for the introduction of a prohibitive congestion charge, to help solve the problems you mention?

The LEZ isn't big enough to really make much difference and only shifts the problems to nearby streets, their should have been a total ban on cars in the city centre but remember the council make a fortune in meter prices and parking tickets, they don't want to lose that source of income.

You cannot invite cars into the city centre by having multi storey car parks and street parking and then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars entering the city.

[Ozyhibby]

The LEZ isn't big enough to really make much difference and only shifts the problems to nearby streets, their should have been a total ban on cars in the city centre but remember the council make a fortune in meter prices and parking tickets, they don't want to lose that source of income.

You cannot invite cars into the city centre by having multi storey car parks and street parking and then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars entering the city.

Agree. The council are inconsistent.
A congestion charge will be needed. The traffic in town is horrific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

The LEZ isn't big enough to really make much difference and only shifts the problems to nearby streets, their should have been a total ban on cars in the city centre but remember the council make a fortune in meter prices and parking tickets, they don't want to lose that source of income.

You cannot invite cars into the city centre by having multi storey car parks and street parking and then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars entering the city.

:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1844223100747120722?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1844223100747120722?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We would need double that for the consultation and objections process

[J-C]

https://x.com/brenttoderian/status/1844223100747120722?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edinburgh allows parking on George St, Queen ST and surrounding areas, multi storey city centre car parks, basically telling people to bring in their cars as there are plenty spaces for them, then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars coming into the city centre. I'd lie to know how much money Edinburgh actually makes through parking charges.

[hibee]

Edinburgh allows parking on George St, Queen ST and surrounding areas, multi storey city centre car parks, basically telling people to bring in their cars as there are plenty spaces for them, then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars coming into the city centre. I'd lie to know how much money Edinburgh actually makes through parking charges.

£22m from pay and display, £6pm from permits, £8m from parking fines and £2m from bus lane fines.

It costs around £8m to run so they only make £30m!

[J-C]

£22m from pay and display, £6pm from permits, £8m from parking fines and £2m from bus lane fines.

It costs around £8m to run so they only make £30m!

Precisely, they don't want to through away that nice we income, hence not banning cars.

[lapsedhibee]

£22m from pay and display, £6pm from permits, £8m from parking fines and £2m from bus lane fines.

It costs around £8m to run so they only make £30m!


Precisely, they don't want to through away that nice we income, hence not banning cars.

£30m's obviously a lot of money, but is it a very big chunk of the council's total income? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

£30m's obviously a lot of money, but is it a very big chunk of the council's total income? :dunno:

And does it cover the costs that our congested roads have? £30m won’t touch the sides of the road budget?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

Edinburgh allows parking on George St, Queen ST and surrounding areas, multi storey city centre car parks, basically telling people to bring in their cars as there are plenty spaces for them, then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars coming into the city centre. I'd lie to know how much money Edinburgh actually makes through parking charges.


Yes, it's a very hypocritical stance.

If the council were serious about congestion and clean air, surely they would be restricting all private car use in the city centre.

Since I received my bus pass I've been using public transport a lot more. There's still way too many cars on the streets. Maybe they could start by restricting private car use at peak times, they cause much of the congestion I see.

[Moulin Yarns]

Edinburgh allows parking on George St, Queen ST and surrounding areas, multi storey city centre car parks, basically telling people to bring in their cars as there are plenty spaces for them, then in the same breath complain about the amount of cars coming into the city centre. I'd lie to know how much money Edinburgh actually makes through parking charges.

Aren't there plans to pedestrianise George Street?

[SteveHFC]

Aren't there plans to pedestrianise George Street?

Apparently so but they are struggling to raise money for it.

Wouldn’t be surprised if the council scrap all these plans they have for the city centre due to funding issues.

[Jack]

"Vandals who target bus lane cameras cost Edinburgh Council around £300,000 last year, new figures show. It comes following a string of incidents which saw traffic enforcement cameras cut down or otherwise damaged. Council officials said it was an “ongoing problem” which they are working with the police to try and resolve. The local authority expected bus lane fines to generate around £600k in the 2023-24 financial year, however only half that was actually collected....

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2024/10/vandals-who-target-bus-lane-cameras-cost-edinburgh-council-around-300000-last-year/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14bXU5-bmuE6qBxZDg30SW-j4RHZNfVvjRizntILW4aSOd4hbm_xlw0gM_aem_UlC7btdoaMe zs0lvUH7NCw

[overdrive]

Corstorphine LTN approved by the Council but the Manse Road Bus gate has been scrapped

[SteveHFC]

GB news are reporting (if true), petrol and diesel car owners could be banned from parking in Edinburgh.

[Stairway 2 7]

Corstorphine LTN approved by the Council but the Manse Road Bus gate has been scrapped

Labour and greens vote to keep it, SNP Lib Dems and tories vote to scrap. Surprised by SNP seeing as they say we need a 40% reduction in miles driven

[Moulin Yarns]

GB news are reporting (if true), petrol and diesel car owners could be banned from parking in Edinburgh.


https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/motoring/motoring-news/petrol-diesel-drivers-face-being-30223368


Petrol and diesel drivers could be BANNED from parking*in a major UK city in a blow.*Edinburgh City Council warns private car parking will not be permitted within the council's LEZ, except for accessible spaces, under a bold new scheme.


Nowhere does it say petrol and diesel cars will be banned!!!!!!

[silverhibee]

Corstorphine LTN approved by the Council but the Manse Road Bus gate has been scrapped

Will they reimburse folk who got fixed penalty fines. :cb

[silverhibee]

Corstorphine LTN approved by the Council but the Manse Road Bus gate has been scrapped

And yet the council still have the signs up, they should be removed.

[J-C]

Still waiting on Elm Row left turn to be re opened after they admitted it was a mistake, wonder how long it'll take. Still nothing at the top of Braid Rd where they also said it would re open, around a year ago, still waiting.