Var

[Gatecrasher]

Yes but we all know they are being checked. What for us neither here nor there. That was my point. Does it really matter?

I think it does, a very good looking goal got disallowed yesterday and until I got home and saw it on TV I had no idea why. A short message or explanation on the screen/PA to say why would improve the experience imo.

They aren't allowed to show replays which is a shame but a short message would do.

[Alfred E Newman]

Not to me it wasn't, this could depend on where you sit in the stadium.

That’s right but when you see the replay Cabraja is clearly off yet the stand side linesman missed it, just as the officials failed to spot about 4 foul throws into the penalty box.

[MWHIBBIES]

Because it's not a goal until VAR verifys it.

Each to their own I guess. Pretty clear there was nout wrong so I celebrated as usual.

[Scotty Leither]

So the Scottish system of VAR is the pound shop version with only one camera angle, and we also don't embrace goal-line technology? Colour me surprised.

[Dmas]

Depending on where you sit in the stadium it’s not obvious to everyone he was offside.

Yes we knew the goal was being checked but we had no idea why. Fans in the stadium are the last to find out what checks are for.


this is my issue with it, your so out of the picture being at the game its no real I'm sure the 4th official will be wired in to what's going on would it be so difficult for them to tell stadium announcer say so it can be put on the screen

[RyeSloan]

I think it does, a very good looking goal got disallowed yesterday and until I got home and saw it on TV I had no idea why. A short message or explanation on the screen/PA to say why would improve the experience imo.

They aren't allowed to show replays which is a shame but a short message would do.

The ref clearly indicated it was VAR and then put his hand up to signify offside and then the free kick was taken from that position. I’m not sure what was unclear about that for anyone in the stadium.

Sure they can and will improve the info on the screens I think but for yesterday it made no real difference as they goal was being checked and the ref told us why it was chalked off.

[greenlex]

I think it does, a very good looking goal got disallowed yesterday and until I got home and saw it on TV I had no idea why. A short message or explanation on the screen/PA to say why would improve the experience imo.

They aren't allowed to show replays which is a shame but a short message would do.
Agree an explanation is required on screen or pa for the goal being disallowed. It surely isn’t that hard. My original point/post was in response to the reason for the check rather than the outcome. We all know it’s going to be checked.

[Ryan91]

So the Scottish system of VAR is the pound shop version with only one camera angle, and we also don't embrace goal-line technology? Colour me surprised.

There are multiple angles available, but think they're only used if the ref requests it when at the pitchside monitor. Sometimes one angle is enough.

As for Goal line tech, I believe there are technical reasons that prevent it from being used at all Top-flight grounds. Is used at Hampden though

[basehibby]

Clearly VAR cannot resolve every contentious call. Even on Sat although VAR helped sort out a couple of important incidents, it still left many of us scratching our heads at times. Like the early Boyle penalty incident for example - I was shouting for it at the time and having watched the slomo I can't fathom how on earth the VAR could have failed to award a spot kick. Stonewaller in my eyes but obviously not in the eyes of Willie Colum!

[Tyler Durden]

Celtic 2nd goal should be disallowed today but it’s not merited a mention from Andy Walker yet.

Sort of thing that will just be ignored for them but any goal against them will be ruled out immediately

[Broken Gnome]

Was yesterday different to the St Johnstone game, where the big screens had 'VAR CHECKING' or such like for a good thirty seconds after each goal?

It should be simple - if it's a quick generic check with no apparent reason to rule it out, leave it to the ref to get the confirmation and start within ten seconds of the teams lining up. If there's something questionable, use the screens and say 'VAR CHECKING POTENTIAL OFFSIDE' or such like.

Is complicated to a degree given some grounds have better means of communicating messages to fans that others, but keeping everyone in the loop at Easter Road should really be a straightforward task than takes mere minutes of common sense planning.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m honestly struggling to understand what is not clear about the fact that every goal is checked and until confirmed can’t be assumed to be a goal.

What are you confused about?

I'm not now, i was yesterday :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Because it's not a goal until VAR verifys it.

The problem is, we do celebrate it.

Then have to stop and pause to see if we're making an arse of ourselves or if we were right in the first place!

[greenlex]

The problem is, we do celebrate it.

Then have to stop and pause to see if we're making an arse of ourselves or if we were right in the first place!
The problem is celebrating a goal? Celebrate it. Then celebrate it again once it’s confirmed. :agree:
last week folk were jumping about at our penalty award. I didn’t as I knew there was an offside and it would be that rather than the pen. Goals different right enough.

[Donegal Hibby]

Ross county v Hertz game today .The goal Ross county had chalked off for offside , I didn't see it myself so can't comment though some hibbys said it was harsh , I see Malky McKay seeking clarity on the matter .
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/ross-county/4962961/manager-malky-mackay-questions-offside-goal-as-ross-county-are-edged-out-by-hearts/

[HibsAnnouncer]

I think it does, a very good looking goal got disallowed yesterday and until I got home and saw it on TV I had no idea why. A short message or explanation on the screen/PA to say why would improve the experience imo.

They aren't allowed to show replays which is a shame but a short message would do.

Hi everyone

Thought I’d jump on and try give a little more context and explanation to our situation with VAR, the screens and our disallowed goal yesterday.

As mentioned previously, our screens come via a feed from a studio in Preston who then communicate with me on our production throughout a match day.

Preston receive a feed from Glasgow for VAR. When the game is delayed or stopped due to a VAR check, Preston receive a notification in the studio that there is a check. They will then give that feed to us and we will display it in the stadium. This relies on the Assistant VAR official (AVAR) to press a button that notifies us to display in the stadium that there is a VAR check.

Yesterday afternoon the assistant did not press the button in Glasgow which meant we had no comms in the studio, or pitchside that there was a VAR check for the goal. Which then caused in the stadium because we had no notification that they were checking the goal.

This is why there was no comms from me or the screens.

A lot of this relies on the comms from Glasgow to be spot on. We are in the very early stages of it. We had a chat with the officials after the game yesterday to discuss it and the feedback will continue. I am sure we will see improvements as time goes on, as we are on the understanding that England had alot of similar issues at the start.

As always, I’ll try jump on and give explanations where I can. Hope it helps.

Yesterday,

[Ryan91]

Hi everyone

Thought I’d jump on and try give a little more context and explanation to our situation with VAR, the screens and our disallowed goal yesterday.

As mentioned previously, our screens come via a feed from a studio in Preston who then communicate with me on our production throughout a match day.

Preston receive a feed from Glasgow for VAR. When the game is delayed or stopped due to a VAR check, Preston receive a notification in the studio that there is a check. They will then give that feed to us and we will display it in the stadium. This relies on the Assistant VAR official (AVAR) to press a button that notifies us to display in the stadium that there is a VAR check.

Yesterday afternoon the assistant did not press the button in Glasgow which meant we had no comms in the studio, or pitchside that there was a VAR check for the goal. Which then caused in the stadium because we had no notification that they were checking the goal.

This is why there was no comms from me or the screens.

A lot of this relies on the comms from Glasgow to be spot on. We are in the very early stages of it. We had a chat with the officials after the game yesterday to discuss it and the feedback will continue. I am sure we will see improvements as time goes on, as we are on the understanding that England had alot of similar issues at the start.

As always, I’ll try jump on and give explanations where I can. Hope it helps.

Yesterday,

Thanks for this Barrie, a bit annoying but good to see that you and the club are feeding back to the SPFL about them needing to press that VAR Check button.

Not sure if you would know the answer, but if they had pressed the button on Mykola's disallowed goal, would fans have been notified on the screens that it had been disallowed for offside?

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Hi everyone

Thought I’d jump on and try give a little more context and explanation to our situation with VAR, the screens and our disallowed goal yesterday.

As mentioned previously, our screens come via a feed from a studio in Preston who then communicate with me on our production throughout a match day.

Preston receive a feed from Glasgow for VAR. When the game is delayed or stopped due to a VAR check, Preston receive a notification in the studio that there is a check. They will then give that feed to us and we will display it in the stadium. This relies on the Assistant VAR official (AVAR) to press a button that notifies us to display in the stadium that there is a VAR check.

Yesterday afternoon the assistant did not press the button in Glasgow which meant we had no comms in the studio, or pitchside that there was a VAR check for the goal. Which then caused in the stadium because we had no notification that they were checking the goal.

This is why there was no comms from me or the screens.

A lot of this relies on the comms from Glasgow to be spot on. We are in the very early stages of it. We had a chat with the officials after the game yesterday to discuss it and the feedback will continue. I am sure we will see improvements as time goes on, as we are on the understanding that England had alot of similar issues at the start.

As always, I’ll try jump on and give explanations where I can. Hope it helps.

Yesterday,

Appreciate the difficulty with screens etc, but once the goal had been disallowed surely it would have been possible to announce "Goal disallowed by VAR"? After announcing the 'goal' to say nothing after it was removed seemed rather strange. Most people worked out what was happening, but others e.g. the couple behind me, presumably distracted by dealing with young kids, who were leaping about all over the place, missed what was going on, and thought we were 1-0 up!

[WhileTheChief..]

So it’s confirmed that the screens stayed blank for our disallowed goal because someone forgot to press a button.

That’s why some of us were confused :na na::na na:

[Greenbeard]

Time for the refs to be miked up for broadcast. Won't help those in the stadium, although in international rugby you can (or certainly used to be able) to buy a mini receiver/earpiece that was tuned in to the ref, touch judges and the Television Match Official.
I watched the rugby on Sat evening. They took a long time reviewing replays of a head collision and discussing a potential red card for a Scotland player and in the end only gave a yellow due to the contact to the head being made with the bicep. But throughout the process, you could hear everything they said to each other and it was totally clear how and why their final decision was reached. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzwrIvfJ27I

Would have been interesting to hear the equivalent conversation between Beaton and VAR over the Watt sending off.
VAR: Hey JB, take a look at what that huddie Watt does in that challenge back there.
JB: Aye ok. You boys nice and cosy there?
VAR: Aye. Nice doughnuts too.
JB: Well I'm out for a curry tonight so stick yer doughnut.
VAR: Right we've got a still for you to look at. Jeez, could've broke his leg there.
JB: Really? I didn't think there was any contact and he pulled out of it.
VAR: Aye but imagine how bad it would look for you if that still appears in the Record on Monday.
JB: True. Better red card him. It's only Motherwell so doesn't really matter anyway.
VAR: Better wear a disguise tonight when your munching on your curry in case of any unhappy Well fans.
JB: Think I'll get a carry-out instead.

[HibbyDave]

So, message flashed to Preston. Then relayed to Glasgow where someone “forgot” to press button allowing communication with the stadium staff.

As I previously said until we have clear communication and the ability to hear the conversation between ref and var then nowt will change.
I went to the rugby and yes you can buy an earpiece to let you listen to the ref ( costs £8).

[I'm Spartacus]

Hi everyone

Thought I’d jump on and try give a little more context and explanation to our situation with VAR, the screens and our disallowed goal yesterday.

As mentioned previously, our screens come via a feed from a studio in Preston who then communicate with me on our production throughout a match day.

Preston receive a feed from Glasgow for VAR. When the game is delayed or stopped due to a VAR check, Preston receive a notification in the studio that there is a check. They will then give that feed to us and we will display it in the stadium. This relies on the Assistant VAR official (AVAR) to press a button that notifies us to display in the stadium that there is a VAR check.

Yesterday afternoon the assistant did not press the button in Glasgow which meant we had no comms in the studio, or pitchside that there was a VAR check for the goal. Which then caused in the stadium because we had no notification that they were checking the goal.

This is why there was no comms from me or the screens.

A lot of this relies on the comms from Glasgow to be spot on. We are in the very early stages of it. We had a chat with the officials after the game yesterday to discuss it and the feedback will continue. I am sure we will see improvements as time goes on, as we are on the understanding that England had alot of similar issues at the start.

As always, I’ll try jump on and give explanations where I can. Hope it helps.

Yesterday,

Cheers Barrie! Appreciate the comms.

The 2 bits in bold above do make me wince though, all relying on the Glasgow filter :(

[Donegal Hibby]

Dermot Gallagher has his say on Hibs penalty?
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12735021/ref-watch-did-var-get-hibs-penalty-call-correct

[I'm Spartacus]

Dermot Gallagher has his say on Hibs penalty?
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12735021/ref-watch-did-var-get-hibs-penalty-call-correct

You're addicted to posting links now :)

[Hibbyradge]

You're addicted to posting links now :)

So he is! I blame myself. :hilarious

[Donegal Hibby]

You're addicted to posting links now :)
Aye your right it's a bit like being a smoker once you start you can't stop though I must try and cut back on them . Twenty -a-days too many 😂

[Donegal Hibby]

So he is! I blame myself. :hilarious
Just had a thought LJ has had a couple of problems with our lads on the old pasting side things too maybe you could have a word in his ear ,you did after all sort me out :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Just had a thought LJ has had a couple of problems with our lads on the old pasting side things too maybe you could have a word in his ear ,you did after all sort me out :wink:

Good one! :greengrin

[easty]

So Tony Watt gets a straight red, in a game where VAR is being used…and it’s been overturned on appeal.

Shambles.

[Johnny_Leith]

Dermot Gallagher has his say on Hibs penalty?
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12735021/ref-watch-did-var-get-hibs-penalty-call-correct

Difficult to be seen?! A blatant pen that was easy to spot, listen to the shout of handball by probably every Hibs fan in the ground! Even from other angles you can see St Mirren fans react to it!

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd happily go back to the days without VAR, although i know thats never going to happen.

[Greenbeard]

So Tony Watt gets a straight red, in a game where VAR is being used…and it’s been overturned on appeal.

Shambles.
Shambles is far too polite a description for that incident.
What action gets taken in regard to the VAR official and Beaton who got it so badly wrong? I mean in terms of their assessment and performance against whatever indicators are used.

[overdrive]

Shambles is far too polite a description for that incident.
What action gets taken in regard to the VAR official and Beaton who got it so badly wrong? I mean in terms of their assessment and performance against whatever indicators are used.

I saw a video where it looked like a stick on red card. I saw another one where it wasn't so stick on. We've got VAR light. Depends what is available to the VAR and the referee.

[ancient hibee]

So Tony Watt gets a straight red, in a game where VAR is being used…and it’s been overturned on appeal.

Shambles.


Has this happened anywhere else? I’ve seen the odd mistake down south being apologised for but don’t think there’s been anything to this extent.

[greenlex]

I saw a video where it looked like a stick on red card. I saw another one where it wasn't so stick on. We've got VAR light. Depends what is available to the VAR and the referee.
Absolutely. If VAR or the ref sees the angle Dundee Utd undoubtedly used in the appeal then it’s a yellow at the game if even that.

[Carheenlea]

Last nights farce has raised serious doubts as to whether VAR is workable in Scotland.

Long delays and fans in dark as to what was happening, and then awarding penalties when a player has clearly dived. It was obvious to everyone in the stand last night and if the ref didn’t get a good view (can’t recall where he was stood) then the linesman had the same view as us. Everyone assumed the player would be booked for simulation, but VAR was brought in to help refs and a quick glance at a monitor would have surely been all that was needed as confirmation.

The dynamic of the game was then changed and while we didn’t react in the way we would have liked, there’s no doubt that a VAR **** up has played a huge part in our undoing.

Perhaps it’s time to pause VAR with immediate effect and look to resume after World Cup. After a couple of games it’s obvious VAR in its current form isn’t going to work in Scotland.

Take a breather from it and have a serious discussion as to how we utilise VAR for the best in Scotland, and use the break to trial VAR in closed doors bounce games and come up with a workable system.
Let officials make their errors in those games as try get used to it instead of ruining games that fans have dug deep for.

It may be for the best just to abandon it altogether.

[Sir David Gray]

Last nights farce has raised serious doubts as to whether VAR is workable in Scotland.

Long delays and fans in dark as to what was happening, and then awarding penalties when a player has clearly dived. It was obvious to everyone in the stand last night and if the ref didn’t get a good view (can’t recall where he was stood) then the linesman had the same view as us. Everyone assumed the player would be booked for simulation, but VAR was brought in to help refs and a quick glance at a monitor would have surely been all that was needed as confirmation.

The dynamic of the game was then changed and while we didn’t react in the way we would have liked, there’s no doubt that a VAR **** up has played a huge part in our undoing.

Perhaps it’s time to pause VAR with immediate effect and look to resume after World Cup. After a couple of games it’s obvious VAR in its current form isn’t going to work in Scotland.

Take a breather from it and have a serious discussion as to how we utilise VAR for the best in Scotland, and use the break to trial VAR in closed doors bounce games and come up with a workable system.
Let officials make their errors in those games as try get used to it instead of ruining games that fans have dug deep for.

It may be for the best just to abandon it altogether.

:agree: The thing is though that most people saw this coming up here with regards to VAR. It's clear to anyone with a working pair of eyes that last night's decision was a disgrace and that the Aberdeen player dived and should have been booked.

However the officiating up here is just not good enough for VAR to make any difference and if anything it's just making things worse. At least when VAR wasn't in use we had a moan about incompetent officials and wrong decisions but we knew that the referee only had the one chance to view the incident. Now they can see various replays and have the opinion of a second official to rely on and we're still seeing awful decisions being made but I think fans will be less forgiving now given the fact that video footage is now available.

It beggars belief that any qualified referee can look at that incident last night and come to the conclusion that it was anything other than a dive. VAR is not workable up here unless we get some proper officials in charge and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

VAR isn't going anywhere though it's here to stay and is seen as part of the progression of the game. For that reason, sadly, I do think football in Scotland is in a very sorry state.

[Crunchie]

I'd happily go back to the days without VAR, although i know thats never going to happen.

We’ve had it what? a fortnight 😂

[KeithTheHibby]

Last nights farce has raised serious doubts as to whether VAR is workable in Scotland.

Long delays and fans in dark as to what was happening, and then awarding penalties when a player has clearly dived. It was obvious to everyone in the stand last night and if the ref didn’t get a good view (can’t recall where he was stood) then the linesman had the same view as us. Everyone assumed the player would be booked for simulation, but VAR was brought in to help refs and a quick glance at a monitor would have surely been all that was needed as confirmation.

The dynamic of the game was then changed and while we didn’t react in the way we would have liked, there’s no doubt that a VAR **** up has played a huge part in our undoing.

Perhaps it’s time to pause VAR with immediate effect and look to resume after World Cup. After a couple of games it’s obvious VAR in its current form isn’t going to work in Scotland.

Take a breather from it and have a serious discussion as to how we utilise VAR for the best in Scotland, and use the break to trial VAR in closed doors bounce games and come up with a workable system.
Let officials make their errors in those games as try get used to it instead of ruining games that fans have dug deep for.

It may be for the best just to abandon it altogether.

I can’t wait until they make a massive James Hunt of it in an old firm game.

[HibbyAndy]

:agree: The thing is though that most people saw this coming up here with regards to VAR. It's clear to anyone with a working pair of eyes that last night's decision was a disgrace and that the Aberdeen player dived and should have been booked.

However the officiating up here is just not good enough for VAR to make any difference and if anything it's just making things worse. At least when VAR wasn't in use we had a moan about incompetent officials and wrong decisions but we knew that the referee only had the one chance to view the incident. Now they can see various replays and have the opinion of a second official to rely on and we're still seeing awful decisions being made but I think fans will be less forgiving now given the fact that video footage is now available.

It beggars belief that any qualified referee can look at that incident last night and come to the conclusion that it was anything other than a dive. VAR is not workable up here unless we get some proper officials in charge and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

VAR isn't going anywhere though it's here to stay and is seen as part of the progression of the game. For that reason, sadly, I do think football in Scotland is in a very sorry state.



The referee last night also set a precedent with the retaken penalty , Every single penalty from now on in Scottish football the keeper will have to remain rooted to his spot until the kick is taken , Can you imagine Alan Mcgregor saving a last minute penalty against celtic and the referee giving a retake cause the goalkeeper is of his line ? Nah neither can i

[matty_f]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

[JimBHibees]

The referee last night also set a precedent with the retaken penalty , Every single penalty from now on in Scottish football the keeper will have to remain rooted to his spot until the kick is taken , Can you imagine Alan Mcgregor saving a last minute penalty against celtic and the referee giving a retake cause the goalkeeper is of his line ? Nah neither can i

Was clearly off his line so right call which was the only part of the penalty fiasco that was. How two referees can genuinely think that was a penalty is utterly mind blowing. A clear dive no contact with marshalls hands or anywhere that would bring him down. Some bizarre angle showing in mid dive there may have been a light brush with Marshall penalty given. Never seen anything like it. We are getting shafted by refs at present the goal chopped off at Tannadice and this penalty both huge game changing decisions lends me to think the refs want to do us over. We went through similar spells when Stubbs in charge two or three straight reds for no reason and under Butcher with incredible decisions given against us with the Forster goal at Tynecastle the most obvious. Some refs are just corrupt.

[JimBHibees]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

Two refs the guy on the pitch and the var ref looked at that and thought it was a penalty. Utterly unbelievable

[Carheenlea]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

You can’t have VAR without officials, ergo, VAR can’t work in Scotland. At least in its current form.

[matty_f]

Two refs the guy on the pitch and the var ref looked at that and thought it was a penalty. Utterly unbelievable

It is incredible, really. Even taking the green tinted glasses off, it’s never a penalty in a million years.

Longbangers did an episode on VAR, and the hope we had was that over the course of the season there’s enough video footage of incidents for referees to be able to calibrate decisions so that they have a reference point for decisions they have to make in game, which should lift the standard of refereeing.

I’m not holding my breath though.

[Hibees1973]

Based on last night's decision it seems that if a goalkeeper even touches (not fouls) an opposition player in the box, then it's a penalty.

The thing to do then is make this a rule. This will mean in future Marshall or any other keeper will come off his line but look to block the incoming shot or even try to shield the ball out of play without touching the opposition player. The goalkeeper shouldn't even contemplate trying to beat the opposition player to the ball first because he could touch the other player and give away a penalty.

This would place the onus on the goalkeeper to decide that if he cannot get to the ball first, he should just look to narrow the angle of the expected incoming shot.

Doing this would clarify what a goalkeeper should do in a similar situation in future.

[Chorley Hibee]

The referee last night also set a precedent with the retaken penalty , Every single penalty from now on in Scottish football the keeper will have to remain rooted to his spot until the kick is taken , Can you imagine Alan Mcgregor saving a last minute penalty against celtic and the referee giving a retake cause the goalkeeper is of his line ? Nah neither can i

I said similar last night at the game.

If VAR is getting involved with this then there'll be 20+ retaken penalties before the end of the season.

I can guarantee that won't happen though, and as you say, certainly not where certain teams are involved.

Also, let's see how much media time this decision gets compared to the Aberdeen red card at ER, or will this just be brushed under the carpet.

I may have missed it, but did Johnson have anything to say on the matter?

[GreenCastle]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

Yup - it’s who is using and how it’s being used.

They have been testing the system for months at games at Oriam etc but the time it’s taking plus the useless part time west coast refs means it turns into a farce.

I’m not even sure if a full time ref would make a difference- just something rubbish getting paid more.

[LaMotta]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

I'm going to defend the pitch referee slightly and say that the VAR ref has stitched him up - when he first goes to the screen he sees a still frozen image of half way through the incident where there is contact between Marshall's knee and Duk's leg/foot. This is bonkers and should never happen.

This will have planted the thought in the refs mind that its
a stick on pen, backed up by the fact that VAR ref has spent nearly 5 mins watching it over and over. I can almost see why the ref felt he had to award it after that, despite us all knowing it was a blatant dive. A ref should never be starting looking at a screen with a still image. The way the incident was dealt with by the VAR ref and how it was presented to the ref was a major factor.

[green day]

I dont think the way VAR is operating is helping anyone.

I dont follow it much, but occasionally see Intnl Rugby on the tv - if there is intervention, it seems more controlled by the on field ref - i.e. you hear them asking for different views, and going back to specific incidents to check for forward passes leading up to tries etc.

All the fans know what the ref is looking at, what he is asking and can make a reasonable assessment of why something is being checked.

We have a situation where - even in decent stadiums with screens like ours - we dont get decent information to see what is happening, and decisions like the Watt red card and the penalty last night are made with the fans having zero idea of what the process was to come to a decision.

That, for me, is the biggest frustration.

[Phil MaGlass]

I'm going to defend the pitch referee slightly and say that the VAR ref has stitched him up - when he first goes to the screen he sees a still frozen image of half way through the incident where there is contact between Marshall's knee and Duk's leg/foot. This is bonkers and should never happen.

This will have planted the thought in the refs mind that its
a stick on pen, backed up by the fact that VAR ref has spent nearly 5 mins watching it over and over. I can almost see why the ref felt he had to award it after that, despite us all knowing it was a blatant dive. A ref should never be starting looking at a screen with a still image. The way the incident was dealt with by the VAR ref and how it was presented to the ref was a major factor.
As soon as I saw the still screen I thought were done. This should never uave been allowed to happen, it gave a false look of what actually happened
I said this before VAR came in, the refs are useless in Scotland and will still see what they want to see. Talk aboot being stitched up. 5hit refs wont get any better with VAR

[B.H.F.C]

I'm going to defend the pitch referee slightly and say that the VAR ref has stitched him up - when he first goes to the screen he sees a still frozen image of half way through the incident where there is contact between Marshall's knee and Duk's leg/foot. This is bonkers and should never happen.

This will have planted the thought in the refs mind that its
a stick on pen, backed up by the fact that VAR ref has spent nearly 5 mins watching it over and over. I can almost see why the ref felt he had to award it after that, despite us all knowing it was a blatant dive. A ref should never be starting looking at a screen with a still image. The way the incident was dealt with by the VAR ref and how it was presented to the ref was a major factor.

I don’t think he was stitched up because I’m positive he was going to give the penalty in real time. The only reason he didn’t was because the linesman put the flag up. As soon as the offside was overturned he was always giving the penalty.

VAR showing up their incompetence again. Linesman gave two offsides for their penalty and our goal that weren’t offside.

[number9dream]

VAR wasn’t the issue last night, the incompetents officiating were the problem.

VAR intervened at the right moments but came to a terrible decision but actually that penalty award sits with the referee. He’s watched that back and decided it’s a penalty which just amazes me.

Watch it in real time, it’s never a penalty.
Watch it over and over again in slow-mo, with freeze frames and the ref convinces himself otherwise…
Surely that’s not how it’s supposed to work.

[LaMotta]

I don’t think he was stitched up because I’m positive he was going to give the penalty in real time. The only reason he didn’t was because the linesman put the flag up. As soon as the offside was overturned he was always giving the penalty.

VAR showing up their incompetence again. Linesman gave two offsides for their penalty and our goal that weren’t offside.

Yeah but if no offside flag and he had given the penalty in real time, there still would have been a review. And you can see why he might have given it in real time, I wouldnt have as much of an issue with that. Because the review should clear up.

Bizaarely it almost feels like if he had given it then it would be more likely to be overturned. It's as if you have a powerful god figure up in the sky desperate to get involved and find something to justify his position and influence the game.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't like VAR full stop but it wasn't the problem last night it was the officials . How the referee saw it as a penalty i will never know . We have amateur referees and officials In charge of our game and it shows most weeks time and time again with some really awful decisions being made that can only be described as amateurish at best , other leagues must be having a right laugh with our game being refereed by the likes of Beaton , Clancy, Walsh , Munro and a few others as well .You can have as much high tech technology in the game but when you have coco the clown I charge of it , it won't make a blind bit of difference.We need proper fully trained professional referees in our game imo and a few of what we have now put down to lower or Highland league which is about there level .

[gbhibby]

If Marshall had touched the ball it would have been no penalty according to what I have seen in similar incidents in English games. I find the game frustrating now as it is in danger of becoming a non contact sport. Players hitting the deck with little or contact.

[JohnM1875]

I don't like VAR full stop but it wasn't the problem last night it was the officials . How the referee saw it as a penalty i will never know . We have amateur referees and officials In charge of our game and it shows most weeks time and time again with some really awful decisions being made that can only be described as amateurish at best , other leagues must be having a right laugh with our game being refereed by the likes of Beaton , Clancy, Walsh , Munro and a few others as well .You can have as much high tech technology in the game but when you have coco the clown I charge of it , it won't make a blind bit of difference.We need proper fully trained professional referees in our game imo and a few of what we have now put down to lower or Highland league which is about there level .

Totally agree. Our league is currently in the top 10 of the rankings and we don't have full time professional referees and it shows.

[Eyrie]

I said before it was introduced that VAR should be restricted to clear and obvious errors and that there should be a time limit on how long a review takes to enforce that.

The fact that VAR took so long over their "penalty" means it can't have been clear and obvious. The freeze frame at the point of contact showed the Aberdeen player was already on his way down and the ball was almost out of play.

As regards the referee, he wasn't at fault last night because he didn't give the penalty at the time. Once VAR tells the referee that a review is require, the referee knows that his colleague thinks there should be a penalty and it is very difficult for him to overrule that.

On the other hand, VAR operated correctly for our goal. Live, the linesman did his job and gave a decision. VAR quickly identified that Kuharevich was clearly onside and corrected the mistake. I wouldn't have been happy if VAR had taken five minutes to decide regardless of the goal being given.

[blackpoolhibs]

We’ve had it what? a fortnight ��

I'm not sure if you are laughing because you know you are wrong, or just plain daft?

I've been watching football with VAR for at least 3 seasons, but maybe you just havent noticed it until Scotland introduced it?

[Carheenlea]

If any official needed TV footage to help determine whether or not that was a penalty then they are not fit to officiate at top level.

If they think that’s a penalty after viewing footage then they are actually not fit to officiate at any level.

[pollution]

I couldn't bring myself to watch the highlights last night, I was in such a foul mood.

Looking at the penalty today; the Aberdeen player did not have control of the ball when going down. It was going out of play without any possibility

of him regaining control. Does this fact not come into the decision of whether it was a penalty ?

[Hibees1973]

I couldn't bring myself to watch the highlights last night, I was in such a foul mood.

Looking at the penalty today; the Aberdeen player did not have control of the ball when going down. It was going out of play without any possibility

of him regaining control. Does this fact not come into the decision of whether it was a penalty ?

I don't think so. If the ref gave it as a foul then it should be a foul anywhere else on the pitch.

If it was on the halfway line and the player passed the ball, but then is fouled by the opposition following through then it is still deemed a foul. It doesn't really matter if the player is in possession of the ball or not.

[Donegal Hibby]

Hard to disagree with Johnson here
https://news.stv.tv/sport/they-want-to-play-because-theyve-got-a-new-toy-lee-johnson-unimpressed-by-var

[eastmainsmsh]

Some of the officials seem to be struggling with the VAR it’s embarrassing

[Donegal Hibby]

Some of the officials seem to be struggling with the VAR it’s embarrassing
Referees are amateurish at best and more than often they are just bloody awful as a another poster said giving them VAR is a bit like giving Stevie wonder contact lenses .

[Lago]

Should bring in English refs to run var, they've had more experience and frankly are more competent.

[Donegal Hibby]

Should bring in English refs to run var, they've had more experience and frankly are more competent.
Hell I'd take referees from Malta or the Faroe Islands compared to these clowns we have now , couldn't be any worse imo

[Real Emerald]

Hard to disagree with Johnson here
https://news.stv.tv/sport/they-want-to-play-because-theyve-got-a-new-toy-lee-johnson-unimpressed-by-var

I wish Lee would be a bit more honest and say it was a dive, one of 2 blatant dives Duk had in the game. The whole reason VAR has been introduced is to be able to look at these incidents and clear up the doubt. Anyone looking at replays from multiple angles can only conclude one thing from this and that is it’s a dive and no penalty.

It took several minutes for the VAR team to view the replays and then passed the decision to the ref who must have only looked at it for a few seconds before reaching the wrong decision, it’s farcical.

[Chorley Hibee]

I wish Lee would be a bit more honest and say it was a dive, one of 2 blatant dives Duk had in the game. The whole reason VAR has been introduced is to be able to look at these incidents and clear up the doubt. Anyone looking at replays from multiple angles can only conclude one thing from this and that is it’s a dive and no penalty.

It took several minutes for the VAR team to view the replays and then passed the decision to the ref who must have only looked at it for a few seconds before reaching the wrong decision, it’s farcical.

A typical Hibs response, diplomatic and don't upset anyone, instead of calling them out for the scandalous decision that it was.

3 ****ing referees, 7 minutes of analysis and still they couldn't get such a simple decision correct.

It's cheating, pure and simple.

[Baldy Foghorn]

VAR is already proving incompetent people running it, will continue to make incompetent decisions. Waiting for 4 or 5 minutes is so frustrating. It'll put fans off coming to games, killing the sponteniety

[marinello59]

VAR is already proving incompetent people running it, will continue to make incompetent decisions. Waiting for 4 or 5 minutes is so frustrating. It'll put fans off coming to games, killing the sponteniety

:agree:
It should never have been introduced, it takes away much from our game more than the little it adds.

[Donegal Hibby]

I wish Lee would be a bit more honest and say it was a dive, one of 2 blatant dives Duk had in the game. The whole reason VAR has been introduced is to be able to look at these incidents and clear up the doubt. Anyone looking at replays from multiple angles can only conclude one thing from this and that is it’s a dive and no penalty.

It took several minutes for the VAR team to view the replays and then passed the decision to the ref who must have only looked at it for a few seconds before reaching the wrong decision, it’s farcical.
I thought he spoke well and was smart about the way he approached the situation, stated he didn't think it was a penalty and said boy was on his way down before he got near our keeper also said the ball was probably out of play before he got to marshall as well now he could have come out and called the player a cheat but we all know were that gets you and so does Jim Goodwin😆

[gbhibby]

Watching the rugby and the ref is mic'd up.When there is a VAR decision in Rugby you hear the conversation, football could do with following Rugby's lead, refs and the VAR refs would gain much more respect if you heard the discussions taking place. Do not see a problem with this. Rugby seems to do things like this so much better than football.

[weecounty hibby]

Watching the rugby and the ref is mic'd up.When there is a VAR decision in Rugby you hear the conversation, football could do with following Rugby's lead, refs and the VAR refs would gain much more respect if you hear.d the discussions taking place. Do not see a problem with this. Rugby seems to do things like this so much better than football.
Was just about to post the same type of thing. I'd love to hear the conversation between dumb and dumber last night when reviewing the penalty.

[Sir David Gray]

VAR is already proving incompetent people running it, will continue to make incompetent decisions. Waiting for 4 or 5 minutes is so frustrating. It'll put fans off coming to games, killing the sponteniety

:agree: I'll probably still get a season ticket every year as that's just what I do but I do think my interest in attending away games will wane somewhat with VAR in operation.

Not a fan at all.

[gbhibby]

Was just about to post the same type of thing. I'd love to hear the conversation between dumb and dumber last night when reviewing the penalty.https://youtu.be/UR9wwqjbO1I
Video of Aussie ref
Football could do this starting with this world Cup


Sent from my SM-A127F using Tapatalk

[gaz1875]

It was a clear dive and shows the total incompetence of not only the hopeless Scottish officials, but officials worldwide. If nonprofessional football players and fans can see a clear dive, it is mindboggling how part time and professional officials can't. This throwing the leg out needs to be stopped, and VAR should be the process to do it, it is doing the opposite and rewarding the cheating!!

[GreenCastle]

Watching the rugby and the ref is mic'd up.When there is a VAR decision in Rugby you hear the conversation, football could do with following Rugby's lead, refs and the VAR refs would gain much more respect if you heard the discussions taking place. Do not see a problem with this. Rugby seems to do things like this so much better than football.

100% plus teams like Hibs who have screens can show replays so fans can see issue.

Clubs like Aberdeen who don’t spend any money on their stadium don’t get that luxury - will maybe force other clubs to actually spend money and improve stadia and infrastructure which is better for Scottish football.

[Sioux]

Watching the rugby and the ref is mic'd up.When there is a VAR decision in Rugby you hear the conversation, football could do with following Rugby's lead, refs and the VAR refs would gain much more respect if you heard the discussions taking place. Do not see a problem with this. Rugby seems to do things like this so much better than football.

That's because the ref gives the TMO his decision and TMO needs to come up with evidence as to why the ref might be wrong. There's none of this checking whether the ref has made an error in the first instance.

The ref asks for the TMO to intervene if he feels it necessary, not that the VAR will has a free reign to interrupt.

Offside is a different story, it either is or is not.

[Hibbyradge]

A typical Hibs response, diplomatic and don't upset anyone, instead of calling them out for the scandalous decision that it was.

3 ****ing referees, 7 minutes of analysis and still they couldn't get such a simple decision correct.

It's cheating, pure and simple.

He doesn't have to spell it out. He said there was no contact. It's not difficult to extrapolate.

[plhibs]

Kenny Clark, ex referee helps oversee VAR, was on sportsound today. He wouldn't answer any questions about specific incidents in games. I'd like to ask him why not but obviously that would be a waste time. Typical of anything concerning football in this country.

[green day]

He doesn't have to spell it out. He said there was no contact. It's not difficult to extrapolate.

Yep, and do we really want our manager to get a 5 match ban for calling Duk a cheat?

[CapitalGreen]

£100k per year we are paying for that *****, more money in the pockets of our incompetent officials.

[allmodcons]

VAR is already proving incompetent people running it, will continue to make incompetent decisions. Waiting for 4 or 5 minutes is so frustrating. It'll put fans off coming to games, killing the sponteniety

I'll not be back any time soon.

I'm not paying good money to watch a shambles like that unfold again.

Ridiculous length of time to get something horribly wrong.

I have quite a few mates who are Aberdeen fans and, so far, none of them have said they thought it was a penalty.

[GreenCastle]

Anyone got a link to the penalty incident ?

I’ve watched it several times from the main angle but what about behind the goals ?

Surely they didn’t look at only one tv angle to award it ?

[paddy1875]

Yep, and do we really want our manager to get a 5 match ban for calling Duk a cheat?

Aye, call it out and make a fuss.

It’s the people who are running it that is the problem.

Another shocking decision at Celtic park today for a handball. That same official against hearts who never even went to check the handball on the screen.

These guys are just proving the conspiracy theorists correct. The sad thing is that we all knew it would happen.


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[hibeg]

Out of interest I had a look at the Dons forum. The vast majority said it wasn’t a penalty, even after watching replays.
Our refs/ VAR officials are so incompetent it is unbelievable. The ref should have looked at it and booked Duk for diving.
I can’t remember the game but last season a ref in England did overrule VAR and got plaudits for it from the analysts.

[Carheenlea]

VAR is already proving incompetent people running it, will continue to make incompetent decisions. Waiting for 4 or 5 minutes is so frustrating. It'll put fans off coming to games, killing the sponteniety

I don’t think there’s enough emphasis being put on this point :agree:

[Carheenlea]

Yep, and do we really want our manager to get a 5 match ban for calling Duk a cheat?

Why not? He can sit behind dugout anyway.

[Sir David Gray]

Kenny Clark, ex referee helps oversee VAR, was on sportsound today. He wouldn't answer any questions about specific incidents in games. I'd like to ask him why not but obviously that would be a waste time. Typical of anything concerning football in this country.

I think that speaks volumes, if he thought VAR had gone well so far he would be falling over himself to point it out.

[green day]

Why not? He can sit behind dugout anyway.

That would only work at Easter Road.

[green day]

Aye, call it out and make a fuss.

It’s the people who are running it that is the problem.

Another shocking decision at Celtic park today for a handball. That same official against hearts who never even went to check the handball on the screen.

These guys are just proving the conspiracy theorists correct. The sad thing is that we all knew it would happen.


I dont disagree tha the handball rule is ridiculous..............but by the rules it was a penalty.

[Kato]

I heard that. He said he'd rather they take a long time to get to the right decision than get it wrong. That was the cue for one of the multiple pundits asking questions to say "what went wrong last night then?" - but no takers.

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[weecounty hibby]

I heard that. He said he'd rather they take a long time to get to the right decision than get it wrong. That was the cue for one of the multiple pundits asking questions to say "what went wrong last night then?" - but no takers.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

He would have circled the wagons and said that they did get the decision right. Refs in this countryvare a total joke

[ben johnson]

I'll not be back any time soon.

I'm not paying good money to watch a shambles like that unfold again.

Ridiculous length of time to get something horribly wrong.

I have quite a few mates who are Aberdeen fans and, so far, none of them have said they thought it was a penalty.

This is a great point. Why would you trail up to Aberdeen on a Friday night to have that served up. The people who run the game in this country should be sitting up and taking what happened extremely seriously. It’s bad enough watching a league dominated by the gruesome but to have to also put up with incompetence on that level could be the final straw.
The referees and VAR system will never be held responsible for their actions and that really needs to change. I would not blame anyone who just decides What is the point.

[JimBHibees]

Aye, call it out and make a fuss.

It’s the people who are running it that is the problem.

Another shocking decision at Celtic park today for a handball. That same official against hearts who never even went to check the handball on the screen.

These guys are just proving the conspiracy theorists correct. The sad thing is that we all knew it would happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dundee united penalty at celtic was a stick on. The commentary on Celtic tv beggars belief in its paranoia. Walsh is the var not the ref.

[bigwheel]

Dundee united penalty at celtic was a stick on. The commentary on Celtic tv beggars belief in its paranoia. Walsh is the var not the ref.

If that’s a penalty , then the rules are madder than ever …

[green day]

If that’s a penalty , then the rules are madder than ever …

I think the rules are mad as well, but it is as much a pen as ours v St Mirren

[bigwheel]

I think the rules are mad as well, but it is as much a pen as ours v St Mirren

He had his back to the ball …didn’t even know where it was

[JimBHibees]

Kenny Clark, ex referee helps oversee VAR, was on sportsound today. He wouldn't answer any questions about specific incidents in games. I'd like to ask him why not but obviously that would be a waste time. Typical of anything concerning football in this country.

Usually wheeled out when the refs have messed up. Happened after the Griffiths free kick non goal

[green day]

He had his back to the ball …didn’t even know where it was

I know, but the rule doesn't differentiate. It is absolutely crap!

[Carheenlea]

That would only work at Easter Road.

Pittodrie as well.

[basehibby]

Quite clearly VAR changes nothing in terms of controversy over incompetent refereeing and entirely subjective decision making.

The penalty award was extrordinary because the rules of VAR say it only comes into play when "it is believed that the on-pitch referee has made a clear and obvious error, or missed a serious incident relating to four specific circumstances, namely a straight red card, penalty incidents, goals (including offside decisions) and any cases of mistaken identity when the wrong player has been shown a yellow or red card."

On Friday the ref made an incorrect offside call and thus avoided making a real time decision on the penalty shout - which is basically why VAR was called into play.

After it was established that the offside was called incorrectly - which should have taken no more than 30 seconds - the ref should then have been allowed to make his own decision with reference to the pitch side screens.

This obviously was not the case as the refs in the video box must have poured over the footage of the dive for about 5 minutes until they had somehow convinced themselves there was some kind of contact imperceptible to the naked eye. They then presented the on-field ref with a fait acomplis in the shape of isolated stills and short clips from an angle that made things look as incriminating as possible - after which (surprise!) a penalty is awarded.

What we have here then is a case of OVERREACH by the power hungry attention seekers - sorry refs - in the remote video suite. They have effectively taken things out of the hands of the on field official regarding an incident that was anything but clear and obvious - resulting in a decision that mystified all and sundry and is still uttrerly contentious even with the benefit of replays. For the life of me I cannot see how this penalty was awarded using VAR while St Johnstone's equaliser two weeks previously was allowed to stand after a much clearer and more obvious contact was made by the goal scorer on our defender prior to his heading the ball. That would have been a very soft foul but not in the same ball park as this one.

That time they kept their council but this time the men in the video suite decided to impose their will on the situation. WHY? What is the difference? Both are game changing decisions. Both are utterly contentious - in one case they stand back and sit on their hands and in the next one they meddle - where is the consistency???

[DaveF]

Quite clearly VAR changes nothing in terms of controversy over incompetent refereeing and entirely subjective decision making.

The penalty award was extrordinary because the rules of VAR say it only comes into play when "it is believed that the on-pitch referee has made a clear and obvious error, or missed a serious incident relating to four specific circumstances, namely a straight red card, penalty incidents, goals (including offside decisions) and any cases of mistaken identity when the wrong player has been shown a yellow or red card."

On Friday the ref made an incorrect offside call and thus avoided making a real time decision on the penalty shout - which is basically why VAR was called into play.

After it was established that the offside was called incorrectly - which should have taken no more than 30 seconds - the ref should then have been allowed to make his own decision with reference to the pitch side screens.

This obviously was not the case as the refs in the video box must have poured over the footage of the dive for about 5 minutes until they had somehow convinced themselves there was some kind of contact imperceptible to the naked eye. They then presented the on-field ref with a fait acomplis in the shape of isolated stills and short clips from an angle that made things look as incriminating as possible - after which (surprise!) a penalty is awarded.

What we have here then is a case of OVERREACH by the power hungry attention seekers - sorry refs - in the remote video suite. They have effectively taken things out of the hands of the on field official regarding an incident that was anything but clear and obvious - resulting in a decision that mystified all and sundry and is still uttrerly contentious even with the benefit of replays. For the life of me I cannot see how this penalty was awarded using VAR while St Johnstone's equaliser two weeks previously was allowed to stand after a much clearer and more obvious contact was made by the goal scorer on our defender prior to his heading the ball. That would have been a very soft foul but not in the same ball park as this one.

That time they kept their council but this time the men in the video suite decided to impose their will on the situation. WHY? What is the difference? Both are game changing decisions. Both are utterly contentious - in one case they stand back and sit on their hands and in the next one they meddle - where is the consistency???

The alternative view is that the ref gave the penalty on field and after the offside was cleared, var asked him to go look at the monitor re the dive. Ref subsequently stuck with his on field decision.

I don't believe that for a moment but it's a view being offered by others.

[Northernhibee]

VAR can assist with incompetence in refereeing, but not impartiality.

We've seen enough dodgy decisions against Rangers, Celtic, and Hearts to know over the years that the latter is as big a problem in Scottish football as the former, if not bigger.

[A Hi-Bee]

2 wrongs will never make a right, all we have done is opened the door to more dodgy work from the west coast refs, the game is ****ed, in my humble, not got any spontaneous reactions as it goes through another inept human sitting in a caravan in the weedge. It should go through a machine analysis, then no human involvement just the machine telling the ref right or wrong. Dont need a second human to mess things up for us even more.

[Hibbyradge]

The alternative view is that the ref gave the penalty on field and after the offside was cleared, var asked him to go look at the monitor re the dive. Ref subsequently stuck with his on field decision.

I don't believe that for a moment but it's a view being offered by others.

No chance.

[Alfred E Newman]

Kenny Clark, ex referee helps oversee VAR, was on sportsound today. He wouldn't answer any questions about specific incidents in games. I'd like to ask him why not but obviously that would be a waste time. Typical of anything concerning football in this country.

The general consensus on that grim show was that so far VAR is “ working well” :brickwall

[ChilliEater]

26276

Hope I've managed to attach the screen grab of the offside decision - I took it from the You Tube highlights at 1min 49s. Looks clearly on, until you realise that the green line on Duk is not in the right place - it's level with his right knee rather than his right shoulder, which is he part of his body closest to goal that he can legally score with. Probably still just onside, but we're getting too close to call an obvious error, especially as the view of the ball is obscured by the Hibs defender, so can't be 100% sure that this is the exact moment the ball is struck. If they're wanting to measure offside to this level of accuracy, then the technology has to be up to the job - how high is the definition on the footage they're using and how fast is the frame rate to freeze it at the right moment? It's like the Jair one against St Johnstone - so tight it should revert to the original onfield decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR1w_aHkz_g&t=177s

[Sir David Gray]

26276

Hope I've managed to attach the screen grab of the offside decision - I took it from the You Tube highlights at 1min 49s. Looks clearly on, until you realise that the green line on Duk is not in the right place - it's level with his right knee rather than his right shoulder, which is he part of his body closest to goal that he can legally score with. Probably still just onside, but we're getting too close to call an obvious error, especially as the view of the ball is obscured by the Hibs defender, so can't be 100% sure that this is the exact moment the ball is struck. If they're wanting to measure offside to this level of accuracy, then the technology has to be up to the job - how high is the definition on the footage they're using and how fast is the frame rate to freeze it at the right moment? It's like the Jair one against St Johnstone - so tight it should revert to the original onfield decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR1w_aHkz_g&t=177s

The "clear and obvious" rule doesn't apply to offside decisions, it's either offside or it's not and on this occasion it's not.

[Jones28]

This may have been covered in the thread already, but shouldn’t it be standard that all stadiums must have screens to at least give the fans an indication of what’s going on with VAR?

Hibs have invested money in screens, so have Hearts and Ibrox and Celtic park already have them, surely other stadiums should have them to be VAR compliant?

[marinello59]

This may have been covered in the thread already, but shouldn’t it be standard that all stadiums must have screens to at least give the fans an indication of what’s going on with VAR?

Hibs have invested money in screens, so have Hearts and Ibrox and Celtic park already have them, surely other stadiums should have them to be VAR compliant?

Nowhere shows the fans in the stadium what is going on. It’s for TV viewers only. Paying customers don’t matter. It’s a rubbish state of affairs.
Scrap it now.

[Billy Whizz]

Nowhere shows the fans in the stadium what is going on. It’s for TV viewers only. Paying customers don’t matter. It’s a rubbish state of affairs.
Scrap it now.

I agree, just not good for the actual fans. I stood at Pittodrie last night wondering what was going on

[Hibeesforever]

I agree, just not good for the actual fans. I stood at Pittodrie last night wondering what was going on

Fans need to start some sort of protest to get this changed. Not right that fans don't see the pictures. They fo in rugby and cricket

[Sir David Gray]

Nowhere shows the fans in the stadium what is going on. It’s for TV viewers only. Paying customers don’t matter. It’s a rubbish state of affairs.
Scrap it now.

I would get rid of it but it's here to stay sadly. Top level football has been geared up for people watching at home over the fan at the stadium for years now and we're gradually moving in the same direction.

[Billy Whizz]

Fans need to start some sort of protest to get this changed. Not right that fans don't see the pictures. They fo in rugby and cricket

I didn’t even celebrate our goal last night, as I thought at the time it was offside😂

[Sir David Gray]

Fans need to start some sort of protest to get this changed. Not right that fans don't see the pictures. They fo in rugby and cricket

Same with tennis, when a player challenges a line call an image is immediately available on a big screen simulating the flight of the ball and where it's landed on the court along with a message immediately saying whether it's in or out.

Everyone within the stadium, including the players and the spectators, has complete clarity over the decision and they move on.

[Carheenlea]

Same with tennis, when a player challenges a line call an image is immediately available on a big screen simulating the flight of the ball and where it's landed on the court along with a message immediately saying whether it's in or out.

Everyone within the stadium, including the players and the spectators, has complete clarity over the decision and they move on.

VAR works great with tennis as it’s dealing with facts. In or out? Quick look at the graphic and on you go. Football is 95% interpretation, which renders the thing utterly pointless as last night proved.

Just scrap it. We’ve had a go, but ultimately brings nothing other than chaos to the game and an adverse affect on match attending fan experience.

[Jones28]

Nowhere shows the fans in the stadium what is going on. It’s for TV viewers only. Paying customers don’t matter. It’s a rubbish state of affairs.
Scrap it now.

I didn’t realise that. Surely to **** it’s got to be the same as it is in England? Don’t they get it shown on screens so fans know what they’re waiting for?

Only in Scotland could we balls it up like this and leave fans clueless for 5 minutes like that.

[GreenCastle]

I didn’t realise that. Surely to **** it’s got to be the same as it is in England? Don’t they get it shown on screens so fans know what they’re waiting for?

Only in Scotland could we balls it up like this and leave fans clueless for 5 minutes like that.

They don’t show replays in England as far as I’m aware.

This is where it’s a farce - replays should be shown on screen - rugby / rugby league seem to manage.

The lack of respect will get worse for the refs as they don’t explain what’s happening and the incompetence of what is happening will make the game even worse / feel more corrupt like last night.

[Sir David Gray]

VAR works great with tennis as it’s dealing with facts. In or out? Quick look at the graphic and on you go. Football is 95% interpretation, which renders the thing utterly pointless as last night proved.

Just scrap it. We’ve had a go, but ultimately brings nothing other than chaos to the game and an adverse affect on match attending fan experience.

I meant to add that my comparison with tennis works well with the offside rule in football, i.e. it's either offside or not. But there still seems to be a lot of delay with looking at offside calls in football with wasting time with drawing countless lines on a screen.

[Criswell]

If there was any justice in this world Puke would have a retrospective ban for clear simulation. Even with VAR decisions can be reviewed as see last week with Tony Watt.

[JimBHibees]

If that’s a penalty , then the rules are madder than ever …

The header was on goal he made himself bigger and stopped the ball with his hand. Correct decision

[Donegal Hibby]

I just can't see the benefits with VAR specially with amateur referees , linesman that we got . The other stuff i have against it is you score a goal and have to wait till it's checked out totally spoils the goal celebration for me . Fans at grounds haven't scoopy what's going on and in some other grounds like a crumbling stadium up in Aberdeen with bad tannoy system and basically bad technology its a disaster.Referee that watched the penalty claim for ages on it when 99% of us thought it was a dive and he still gave it after a long delay well what can you say ? Two weeks running massive problems with it and it's not just us , it's other clubs too . I just hate it full stop , probably drive fans away in all

[easty]

The officials in the EPL are professional aye?

Yet, de Bruyne got a penalty for chucking himself to the ground deep into injury time today. It’s an absolute shocker. The absolute minimum of contact to his foot, then a delayed reaction before both legs collapse to the ground.

Var would’ve looked at it. Pen given.

It’s never in a million years a penalty.

[Donegal Hibby]

The officials in the EPL are professional aye?

Yet, de Bruyne got a penalty for chucking himself to the ground deep into injury time today. It’s an absolute shocker. The absolute minimum of contact to his foot, then a delayed reaction before both legs collapse to the ground.

Var would’ve looked at it. Pen given.

It’s never in a million years a penalty.
I think they are a lot better referees than what's in our game by a mile .I watched the city game and thought Fulham player did connect with de bruyne at the back of his heel which could have been painful, I do agree that his reaction was OTT btw anyhow I only seen it once and thought there was contact and could see why VAR give it but maybe you seen it again easty so I not going to argue with you on it , what I will say is there was more contact on de bruyne than there was on Duk mate .

[paddy1875]

The header was on goal he made himself bigger and stopped the ball with his hand. Correct decision

Regardless, what was the difference between this and what happened with celtics non penalty for handball against hearts a couple of weeks previous?

The referee never even got a shout for that clear mistake he made.


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[GreenCastle]

I meant to add that my comparison with tennis works well with the offside rule in football, i.e. it's either offside or not. But there still seems to be a lot of delay with looking at offside calls in football with wasting time with drawing countless lines on a screen.

Qatar World Cup will have semi automated offside technology..

What could possibly go wrong….

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2022/07/01/how-semi-automated-offside-technology-will-change-qatar-2022-world-cup/amp/

[easty]

I think they are a lot better referees than what's in our game by a mile .I watched the city game and thought Fulham player did connect with de bruyne at the back of his heel which could have been painful, I do agree that his reaction was OTT btw anyhow I only seen it once and thought there was contact and could see why VAR give it but maybe you seen it again easty so I not going to argue with you on it , what I will say is there was more contact on de bruyne than there was on Duk mate .

I’m no a ref, so I’m maybe completely wrong, but “contact” itself cannae be justification for a foul. It has to impede. The contact has to be at a level that you’ve been barged/tripped/knocked of balance enough that you couldn’t continue what you were doing?

De Bruyne never loses control of the ball, his foot gets touched and he decides to collapse both his legs. His foot wasn’t stood on, his leg wasn’t cleared away…there was “contact”.

In real time I can understand the ref thinking it’s a foul, but VAR is there. How can anyone watch that and see anything other than a dive?

[WhileTheChief..]

They had someone on Sportsound yesterday trying to explain how and when VAR works here. I couldn’t follow it all, way too confusing.

They can change how it’s used though. If we want to use simply to tell if the ball crossed the line or something was offside, we could.

We’re now seeing a goal scored, and folk in an office on Glasgow going back a few mins before the goal to see if there was a foul so that the goal can be disallowed!

Think about that for a minute. They are actively looking for a reason to disallow every single goal by check what happened in the lead up to it.

If the ref hasn’t asked for any help, VAR shouldn’t be used unless it’s settling a definitive, factual, thing.

We’re screwed though. We’ve spent too much to ditch it, too many folk are involved with it, and as a club you just know that we will never complain about it.

[Pretty Boy]

I could almost tolerate it if it was getting all the big decisions correct.

It's crap. Interupts the game and it's still ultimately subjective. Never wanted it before it arrived and I don't want it now that I have seen it in action.

[Posh Swanny]

They had someone on Sportsound yesterday trying to explain how and when VAR works here. I couldn’t follow it all, way too confusing.

They can change how it’s used though. If we want to use simply to tell if the ball crossed the line or something was offside, we could.

We’re now seeing a goal scored, and folk in an office on Glasgow going back a few mins before the goal to see if there was a foul so that the goal can be disallowed!

Think about that for a minute. They are actively looking for a reason to disallow every single goal by check what happened in the lead up to it.

If the ref hasn’t asked for any help, VAR shouldn’t be used unless it’s settling a definitive, factual, thing.

We’re screwed though. We’ve spent too much to ditch it, too many folk are involved with it, and as a club you just know that we will never complain about it.

Anyone seen the highlights of yesterday's Nottingham Forest game? Check out the penalties NOT given by VAR in that one! Some perfect examples of contact not necessarily leading to a foul in Forest's favour. Followed by a shocker awarded to Brentford, obviously! 😂

[B.H.F.C]

I could almost tolerate it if it was getting all the big decisions correct.

It's crap. Interupts the game and it's still ultimately subjective. Never wanted it before it arrived and I don't want it now that I have seen it in action.

Totally agree with this.

It’s fine for the factual stuff. Is it on or offside. Is the goalie on or off his line.

But how on earth the referee can look at multiple replays of that penalty then give it is ridiculous. As for the factual stuff, it shows how bad the linesman is missing two offsides and Marshall being off his line.

[JimBHibees]

Regardless, what was the difference between this and what happened with celtics non penalty for handball against hearts a couple of weeks previous?

The referee never even got a shout for that clear mistake he made.


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Was only talking about the United one. Agree the Celtic one v Hearts should have been looked at and given.

[JimBHibees]

Got asked last night Do we have goal line technology as well as var?

[BlackSheep]

My biggest query with Scotland implementation of VAR is the offside use/non use… I’ll explain…

VAR up here isn’t used to determine offsides, yet offside decisions are checked if they happen in the build up to a goal or penalty. Can someone tell me where an offside matters outside of either of those situations….? So really we DO use VAR for offsides that matter!!

On top of this issue is the issue of play being halted before an incident happens… Ralston goal not counting as the ref blew for an infringement just before…. Whereas on Friday night the ref blows for offside before the alleged penalty… yet VAR checks the offside and in turn gives the pen…. But in the Hearts Celtic game, VAR wasn’t used to asses the infringement seen by the ref in that sequence…!!

It’s absolutely inconsistent… I had hope for VAR working up here but it seems our standard of officiating is the actual problem.

What a waste of time and money!

[BoomtownHibees]

My biggest query with Scotland implementation of VAR is the offside use/non use… I’ll explain…

VAR up here isn’t used to determine offsides, yet offside decisions are checked if they happen in the build up to a goal or penalty. Can someone tell me where an offside matters outside of either of those situations….? So really we DO use VAR for offsides that matter!!

On top of this issue is the issue of play being halted before an incident happens… Ralston goal not counting as the ref blew for an infringement just before…. Whereas on Friday night the ref blows for offside before the alleged penalty… yet VAR checks the offside and in turn gives the pen…. But in the Hearts Celtic game, VAR wasn’t used to asses the infringement seen by the ref in that sequence…!!

It’s absolutely inconsistent… I had hope for VAR working up here but it seems our standard of officiating is the actual problem.

What a waste of time and money!

VAR is only ever used for offside if it leads to a goal or a penalty, not just in Scotland

And on Friday, the ref never blew for offside before the “challenge” by Marshall. The flag didn’t go up until the ball had gone out of play following it

[paddy1875]

Was only talking about the United one. Agree the Celtic one v Hearts should have been looked at and given.

Yeh, fair play.

You’re actually maybe right after watching it back again. The ball is heading back towards the goal and there’s a chance it’s either going in the net or is forcing the keeper to make a save.


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[where'stheslope]

Anyone seen the highlights of yesterday's Nottingham Forest game? Check out the penalties NOT given by VAR in that one! Some perfect examples of contact not necessarily leading to a foul in Forest's favour. Followed by a shocker awarded to Brentford, obviously! 😂
You forgot to mention, they showed one of the VAR Forest penalty incidents on the big screens, and nearly caused a riot!!!!

[Donegal Hibby]

I’m no a ref, so I’m maybe completely wrong, but “contact” itself cannae be justification for a foul. It has to impede. The contact has to be at a level that you’ve been barged/tripped/knocked of balance enough that you couldn’t continue what you were doing?

De Bruyne never loses control of the ball, his foot gets touched and he decides to collapse both his legs. His foot wasn’t stood on, his leg wasn’t cleared away…there was “contact”.

In real time I can understand the ref thinking it’s a foul, but VAR is there. How can anyone watch that and see anything other than a dive?
I'm no ref either , that makes 3 of us , you , me and Munro. I thought there was contact on the back of heel how much to make de bruyne go down the way he did I'm not sure , the back of the heel would be quite a vulnerable area to get caught in even if it was the very slightest of contact though the way he went down looked away OTT so he could have been at it too.Var still decided it was a penalty which like you I'm Not 100% sure it was . One given against us I was fairly comfortable about it , thought refs going to look at it ,book Duk for diving and game continues ,how wrong was I after a minute or two looking at it on a monitor with different angles and ability to slow it down and freeze it munro still gave it .De bruyne one I'm dubious about , our one never a penalty even with VAR both were given . Crazy stuff

[Donegal Hibby]

Another article on VAR decisions against us
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/5005318/ref-watch-what-did-our-refereeing-expert-make-of-the-big-var-calls-in-aberdeens-win-against-hibernian/
The picture at the top of the article with Munro looking at the monitor to check the penalty decision. surely there's a another classic spec savers add in the making here ?

[LaMotta]

Another article on VAR decisions against us
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/5005318/ref-watch-what-did-our-refereeing-expert-make-of-the-big-var-calls-in-aberdeens-win-against-hibernian/
The picture at the top of the article with Munro looking at the monitor to check the penalty decision. surely there's a another classic spec savers add in the making here ?

A fair reflection of events from the ref writig the article.

[Donegal Hibby]

A fair reflection of events from the ref writig the article.
Do you not think Ref totally contradicts himself in article though ?

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/Zeshankenzo/status/1590459853965000704?t=YZja6xXQb2lnYMlLpnRpig&s=19

Surley that's no the angle var actually used here?

[emoji23]

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[LunasBoots]

https://twitter.com/Zeshankenzo/status/1590459853965000704?t=YZja6xXQb2lnYMlLpnRpig&s=19

Surley that's no the angle var actually used here?

[emoji23]

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Be interesting to see the angles being used in games because that doesn't look very conclusive, it certainly looks like they are guessing.

[Trinity Hibee]

It does look onside. If we aren’t getting decisions right after looking at it 2 or 3 times then what is the point. I didn’t think it would have this much of an impact on me but I really hate it and it kills the enjoyment at games when a decision is being checked with no information about what’s going on. Coupled with general time wasting and play acting which is getting worse, football is losing its appeal for me

[Broken Gnome]

See on Friday, correct in saying the linesman gave offside?

Given the flag always goes up late, did the ref ever look like giving a penalty in real-time?

Plausible that IF the linesman let play go and the ref didn't give the penalty, VAR wouldn't have overturned it? As the ref took the offside decision, the penalty only became a live possibility when Duk was shown to be onside?

Trying to assess to what degree we were shafted.

[Callum_62]

See on Friday, correct in saying the linesman gave offside?

Given the flag always goes up late, did the ref ever look like giving a penalty in real-time?

Plausible that IF the linesman let play go and the ref didn't give the penalty, VAR wouldn't have overturned it? As the ref took the offside decision, the penalty only became a live possibility when Duk was shown to be onside?

Trying to assess to what degree we were shafted.

with that call we were shafted to an inch of our life whatever way you look at it

[Carheenlea]

https://twitter.com/Zeshankenzo/status/1590459853965000704?t=YZja6xXQb2lnYMlLpnRpig&s=19

Surley that's no the angle var actually used here?

[emoji23]

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Angles like that are as much guesswork than that of a referee or linesman closer to the action. The players in line give or take a knees or toe either side. You were allowed to be level at one time, and attacking football should always be encouraged.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just seen the tackle against the celtic player that is a straight red in anyones book, the offside goal not given in the same game, and Hearts not getting a penalty and i'm left again wondering why we've introduced it in Scotland?

[Donegal Hibby]

I know this story of VAR is in the sun but I thought it was interesting so here it is
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/9743094/var-increase-penbalties-141-england/

[where'stheslope]

Just seen the tackle against the celtic player that is a straight red in anyones book, the offside goal not given in the same game, and Hearts not getting a penalty and i'm left again wondering why we've introduced it in Scotland?
I thought that tackle was worse than the one the St Johnstone player was sent off for, though it was sent to VAR and ref had to review before sending off?
I believe it is the same ref in the VAR studio watching both incidents, how can he see one different to the other???