Tram extension

[danhibees1875]

I’m not sure adding a load of cars improves that though.


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I guess the argument is that with the lack of upside there's no need to inconvenience the driving options?

Perhaps they could just pedestrianise it for summer in that case. :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

I guess the argument is that with the lack of upside there's no need to inconvenience the driving options?

Perhaps they could just pedestrianise it for summer in that case. :dunno:

Just because it’s not sit out weather doesn’t mean it won’t be a more pleasant experience to walk there.


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[danhibees1875]

Just because it’s not sit out weather doesn’t mean it won’t be a more pleasant experience to walk there.


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I don't necessarily disagree, but it's all give and take. Those cars end up going somewhere and I've never found George St to be unpleasant, well not because of the cars anyway. :greengrin

[Just Alf]

I've always thought (ship has sailed tho!) The trams should have gone along George St, turned down at the east end to have a stop opposite the Waverly Station and then head off down Leith St onto Leith Walk....

On princes.st, the 'shop' side of the pavement could be extended out to the middle leaving loads of.room.for.pavement cafes etc... then to enable a shift that direction, council, business tax or whatever tweaked to make cafes/restaurants, even pubs, a more appealing option than a 'tartan shop' etc...

[Hibs4185]

I've always thought (ship has sailed tho!) The trams should have gone along George St, turned down at the east end to have a stop opposite the Waverly Station and then head off down Leith St onto Leith Walk....

On princes.st, the 'shop' side of the pavement could be extended out to the middle leaving loads of.room.for.pavement cafes etc... then to enable a shift that direction, council, business tax or whatever tweaked to make cafes/restaurants, even pubs, a more appealing option than a 'tartan shop' etc...

Your username has taken on a new meaning!

After what seems like 10 transfer windows, ALF eventually signs. Is justalf tye real Alf and been spying on us for 5 years??

[Kato]

Your username has taken on a new meaning!

After what seems like 10 transfer windows, ALF eventually signs. Is justalf tye real Alf and been spying on us for 5 years??More like 20 windows

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/5191230f482497a070ad492bf74a8e93.jpg
A good pic from Milan on benefit of getting rid of cars from streets.

And a couple from Oxford.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/b68c3d4c1eddfba4190651e48ee24941.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/31a177ec43f5de1d069167c7e8e9a5f4.jpg


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[gbhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/5191230f482497a070ad492bf74a8e93.jpg
A good pic from Milan on benefit of getting rid of cars from streets.

And a couple from Oxford.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/b68c3d4c1eddfba4190651e48ee24941.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230618/31a177ec43f5de1d069167c7e8e9a5f4.jpg


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First picture still has cars either side only got rid of car park.When you do something like this the pollution doesn't go away it just gets transferred elsewhere.

[Ozyhibby]

First picture still has cars either side only got rid of car park.When you do something like this the pollution doesn't go away it just gets transferred elsewhere.

It’s not just about pollution though, it’s about reclaiming the public space from the cars. Also with less parking spaces, less people will drive to the city centre.


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[gbhibby]

It’s not just about pollution though, it’s about reclaiming the public space from the cars. Also with less parking spaces, less people will drive to the city centre.


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Less people driving to the city centre means less revenue for businesses. You can't have a narrow blinkered view that cars in the city centre are bad. You have to strike a balance. A proper thought out transport strategy is not what we have at the moment in Edinburgh. The whole tram project is a dogs breakfast and is not the answer.

[Ozyhibby]

Less people driving to the city centre means less revenue for businesses. You can't have a narrow blinkered view that cars in the city centre are bad. You have to strike a balance. A proper thought out transport strategy is not what we have at the moment in Edinburgh. The whole tram project is a dogs breakfast and is not the answer.

I personally think if you make the city centre a pleasant place to be free of cars, more people will come.


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[gbhibby]

I personally think if you make the city centre a pleasant place to be free of cars, more people will come.


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Aye on their bikes😁
You end up with less footfall and the danger of your city centre becoming a ghost town

[Ozyhibby]

Aye on their bikes[emoji16]
You end up with less footfall and the danger of your city centre becoming a ghost town

And yet the evidence from around Europe is there that getting rid of cars has revitalised their city centres.

https://www.goodnet.org/articles/9-european-cities-that-are-making-great-strides-to-become-car-free

Half of people on Copenhagen cycle to work. Why can’t we do that?


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[superfurryhibby]

And yet the evidence from around Europe is there that getting rid of cars has revitalised their city centres.

https://www.goodnet.org/articles/9-european-cities-that-are-making-great-strides-to-become-car-free

Half of people on Copenhagen cycle to work. Why can’t we do that?


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Hills?

[Ozyhibby]

Hills?

I didn’t say it was effort free.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Hills?


I didn’t say it was effort free.


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I'm always struck by the reality that, in a hilly city like Edinburgh, hills aren't as much of a challenge as you'd think*. So many hills are bypassed by the cycle-tracks, which are themselves often on the old railways lines (ie designed and engineered to be fairly flat).

And then there's electric bikes.

*Disclaimer.... the cobbled New Town apart.....:greengrin

[Jack]

And yet the evidence from around Europe is there that getting rid of cars has revitalised their city centres.

https://www.goodnet.org/articles/9-european-cities-that-are-making-great-strides-to-become-car-free

Half of people on Copenhagen cycle to work. Why can’t we do that?


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Because we live in a city built around 7 hills for starters.

And aside from all the other things there was a young family came on my already crowded single decker bus yesterday tea time. A four(ish) year old, baby in the buggy and the dad had 4 pillows and a duvet! Public transport is great but not the full answer.

As cars have been driven out the city centres the city centres have died a slow and lingering death.

Princes Street has become a ghetto with just tat and tax evasion shops and empty stores with the joke for sale sign saying flagship store opportunity! There's no one reason but fewer cars and even fewer parking spaces isn't the answer.

[Gatecrasher]

Unless there is a mobility issue, there is absolutely no need to have cars in a large part of Edinburgh city centre, it has an extremely good transit system supporting it regardless if you live in the city or further afield.

[Pretty Boy]

Do people actually take their cars into the city centre? I mean I know there are cars in the city centre but I always assumed it was just people commuting or passing through.

I couldn't think of anything worse than taking my car into town, even thinking back 20+ years when I was a bairn it was always the bus with my parents or grandparents. I know I'm quite lucky in that I have Brunstane station a 10 minutes walk from me and can be at Waverley in 7 minutes on the train but the idea of navigating the town with my car, finding somewhere to park and paying for it seems far more hassle and more expensive than just using public transport. Obviously there will be people with mobility issues and the like who need a car but removing unnecessary traffic would free up space for those with such needs.

Far from putting me off going into the city centre I think I'd be more inclined to go if large areas were pedestrianised. I'm always fascinated by how well implemented bike lanes and walking routes are by our Scandinavian neighbours. They are the countries we should be aspiring to be like when it comes to public services and public transport but there is so much resistance to the idea that a car isn't the be all and end all that it will just never happen.

[Stairway 2 7]

Busses are tremendous in the city and cycling numbers have rocketed, maybe because electric bikes make the city easy to navigate. City centres around the world are suffering badly but there is positive news around the ones that are becoming more cycling/pedestrian centred like what Paris, Madrid, Copenhagen and even Beijing are planning

[SteveHFC]

And yet the evidence from around Europe is there that getting rid of cars has revitalised their city centres.

https://www.goodnet.org/articles/9-european-cities-that-are-making-great-strides-to-become-car-free

Half of people on Copenhagen cycle to work. Why can’t we do that?


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What about those who can’t cycle or can’t walk?

[Ozyhibby]

What about those who can’t cycle or can’t walk?

We have public transport. Plus there could be special access points for blue badge holders.


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[gbhibby]

We have public transport. Plus there could be special access points for blue badge holders.


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The majority of the City Centre of Edinburgh is residential so there will be a number of issues to be resolved. I am in favour of reducing cars in the city centre and pedestrian only areas. Because of the nature of the geography of Edinburgh the council need to tackle the access routes into the city centre Fairmilehead,Liberton ,Portobello Gilmerton etc.

[Ozyhibby]

Will be doing my bit this afternoon by using the tram for the first time to travel down to watch the Proclaimers. [emoji106]


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[Jack]

Will be doing my bit this afternoon by using the tram for the first time to travel down to watch the Proclaimers. [emoji106]


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Head for the Shore stop for your journey home. I passed the Fit of the Walk not long after the Proclaimers had finished last night. Never seen the area so busy. The bus stops were rammed and there was a huge queue at the tram stop despite the fact one had just left.

[gbhibby]

Will be doing my bit this afternoon by using the tram for the first time to travel down to watch the Proclaimers. [emoji106]


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Hope it's Air Conditioned oh wait they didn't order them with Air Conditioning. Enjoy the concert. Why are you not cycling 😁

[Ozyhibby]

Hope it's Air Conditioned oh wait they didn't order them with Air Conditioning. Enjoy the concert. Why are you not cycling [emoji16]

Because I’m a fat lazy b……..[emoji23]


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[gbhibby]

Because I’m a fat lazy b……..[emoji23]


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The do make lycra in larger sizes😁

[ACLeith]

Much of the conversation is around the City Centre. I can barely remember the last time I drove there, if I need to I get the bus (and the new Tram route this past week). But as a resident at the east end of Leith, public transport has been poor, and with travel in the last few weeks becoming a nightmare, it is set to get worse.

I smile at the notion that the city has great public transport. Certain parts have, but not the east end of Leith. For example, going up town tonight to meet relatives who are passing through, there is one bus we can take from close to our house and it's a 30 minute service. I know it's Sunday, but my point stands regardless of the day.

The Low Traffic Neighbourhood and Controlled Parking Zone initiatives have now been mainly introduced and are proving as bad for movement east-west through Leith as was predicted. And there is worse to come. Neither of these are directly connected to the tram extension, of course, but they have all resulted in there now being only 2 routes east-west, snarl ups and extra pollution here we come.

I do accept that things could not stay the same as they were, but a balanced programme of joined-up thinking should have been possible - probably a pipe dream with our local council.

Rant over! (for this week!)

[J-C]

George Street is simple, get rid of the centre street parking. Council complain about too many cars but allow on street parking in nearly all city centre street and have 3 large car parks in Castle Ter, Omni Centre and St James Quarter. All this raises a lot of income via parking charges and fines.

[Moulin Yarns]

The do make lycra in larger sizes😁

That's stretching it a bit 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

George Street is simple, get rid of the centre street parking. Council complain about too many cars but allow on street parking in nearly all city centre street and have 3 large car parks in Castle Ter, Omni Centre and St James Quarter. All this raises a lot of income via parking charges and fines.

All 3 car parks you mentioned are private enterprises. The council gets no revenue from them.

[Just Alf]

The do make lycra in larger sizes[emoji16]That's no fair on rest of us tho!

[Hibrandenburg]

What about those who can’t cycle or can’t walk?

What about those who can't drive?

[Hibs4185]

All 3 car parks you mentioned are private enterprises. The council gets no revenue from them.

So I won’t say how I know but I met the boss of NCP and the castle street car park is the best performing car park of all NCP car parks

[J-C]

All 3 car parks you mentioned are private enterprises. The council gets no revenue from them.

Do they not have to be licensed by the council.

[Since90+2]

Do they not have to be licensed by the council.

Yes. There is one near my work and it opens 6.30am -7.30am but then must close between 7.30am - 9.30am.

That was a condition of the licence being granted, I am assuming to stop a further build up of cars around the area at that time.

[Just Alf]

Yes. There is one near my work and it opens 6.30am -7.30am but then must close between 7.30am - 9.30am.

That was a condition of the licence being granted, I am assuming to stop a further build up of cars around the area at that time.Probably right, I wonder if it's also to deter commuters who start work at 9 from using it, would have the effect of leaving some spaces for shoppers/visitors? :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

tram was stuck for at least 30 mins on constitution street, give that tw@t of a van driver a hefty fine, prat

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354461259_6226940524085565_3916812690447718097_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TYaRJ7PbDRcAX-21iGa&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCTSB9XnpQP80o2TL2Lp6xO-Q4XGCUVMgJeZH7he3Pw8Q&oe=6497561E

[Smartie]

tram was stuck for at least 30 mins on constitution street, give that tw@t of a van driver a hefty fine, prat

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354461259_6226940524085565_3916812690447718097_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TYaRJ7PbDRcAX-21iGa&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCTSB9XnpQP80o2TL2Lp6xO-Q4XGCUVMgJeZH7he3Pw8Q&oe=6497561E

This is going to happen quite regularly imo.

I think they're going to need to do something more about it, if we're relying on van drivers not being prats for the tram to run then we're in trouble.

[Billy Whizz]

This is going to happen quite regularly imo.

I think they're going to need to do something more about it, if we're relying on van drivers not being prats for the tram to run then we're in trouble.

I think can drivers have made it clear for ages, they don’t have enough space to drop of the goods to their customers

[cabbageandribs1875]

This is going to happen quite regularly imo.

I think they're going to need to do something more about it, if we're relying on van drivers not being prats for the tram to run then we're in trouble.


you could get another tram on the other side of that Van, embarrassing parking

[hibee_girl]

I think can drivers have made it clear for ages, they don’t have enough space to drop of the goods to their customers

That van has got plenty space to park properly

[Billy Whizz]

That van has got plenty space to park properly

Must admit it is bad parking, but I’ve heard of a few complaining they don’t have enough space

[Mon Dieu4]

Must admit it is bad parking, but I’ve heard of a few complaining they don’t have enough space

I've seen a lorry on Leith Walk in the designated parking bay that was as close as you can possibly get to the kerb and was still sticking out on the road blocking it, he was chatting to a traffic warden about the bays being too wee

[Pretty Boy]

It's bad parking but it's bad design too.

You would be forgiven for thinking the lighter shade of grey that makes up the tramline is the entire footprint of the tram,clearly there is an overhang though as the van is clear of that but still blocking the tram.

The whole of the Leith Walk and Constitution Street design needs ironed out. Better spaced and more loading bays, street signs obstructing pavements moved, cycle lanes straightened, general pavement clutter like big planters removed and bollards to stop pavement parking (which there would be no excuse for if the loading areas were adequate).

[cabbageandribs1875]

after seeing that Van photo again i should maybe put this in the pet peeves thread but...

fair rips ma knittin when vehicle drivers park on the opposite side of the traffic flow, i'm sure in america drivers can get a ticket for doing that, or maybe it was just a certain city in which i was watching an episode of parking wars :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

after seeing that Van photo again i should maybe put this in the pet peeves thread but...

fair rips ma knittin when vehicle drivers park on the opposite side of the traffic flow, i'm sure in america drivers can get a ticket for doing that, or maybe it was just a certain city in which i was watching an episode of parking wars :greengrin

Illegal in New South Wales.[emoji106]


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Illegal in New South Wales.[emoji106]


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:thumbsup:it's just plain daft

[Just Alf]

after seeing that Van photo again i should maybe put this in the pet peeves thread but...

fair rips ma knittin when vehicle drivers park on the opposite side of the traffic flow, i'm sure in america drivers can get a ticket for doing that, or maybe it was just a certain city in which i was watching an episode of parking wars :greengrinIt's illegal here as well... £1000 fine!


Devil's in the detail though... doesn't apply if its a recognised parking space (and you're within it!) , also, the reason for the rule is to ensure the rear reflectors face oncoming traffic at night so very unlikely to be enforced during the day! .... or at night unless there's been an accident I guess.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Van from earlier photo

https://i2-prod.edinburghlive.co.uk/incoming/article27162997.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_Screenshot-2023-06-20-at-162924.png

[cabbageandribs1875]

It's illegal here as well... £1000 fine!


Devil's in the detail though... doesn't apply if its a recognised parking space (and you're within it!) , also, the reason for the rule is to ensure the rear reflectors face oncoming traffic at night so very unlikely to be enforced during the day! .... or at night unless there's been an accident I guess.


now you mention this it's something else that bugs me with those parking on the opposite side of the road.......... LIGHTS on :agree:

[Just Alf]

now you mention this it's something else that bugs me with those parking on the opposite side of the road.......... LIGHTS on :agree:One for the pet peeve thread :agree:

[gbhibby]

tram was stuck for at least 30 mins on constitution street, give that tw@t of a van driver a hefty fine, prat

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354461259_6226940524085565_3916812690447718097_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TYaRJ7PbDRcAX-21iGa&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCTSB9XnpQP80o2TL2Lp6xO-Q4XGCUVMgJeZH7he3Pw8Q&oe=6497561EThe Traminator

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[cabbageandribs1875]

The Traminator

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:greengrin


anyway, next...

great parking with this one but that is really so close to the Tram, lorries have been getting parking tickets for parking a bit on the pavement to avoid the Trams


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355151164_10167692988855408_8425560393036119820_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=T5VIUAre3KYAX9_uEDc&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDloIVqrsxTxk2_Xsd40EJm-mwEJRs-4ugg5QkIDM4TNw&oe=649F8B12

[lapsedhibee]

great parking with this one but that is really so close to the Tram, lorries have been getting parking tickets for parking a bit on the pavement to avoid the Trams


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355151164_10167692988855408_8425560393036119820_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=T5VIUAre3KYAX9_uEDc&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDloIVqrsxTxk2_Xsd40EJm-mwEJRs-4ugg5QkIDM4TNw&oe=649F8B12

There looks to be plenty of scope to have made that parking bay wider (what's the point of the gap between cycle lane and parking bay, for example? - paving there is too narrow to walk along, but maybe not wide enough to prevent a rashly-opened door whacking an unsuspecting cyclist).

[gbhibby]

There looks to be plenty of scope to have made that parking bay wider (what's the point of the gap between cycle lane and parking bay, for example? - paving there is too narrow to walk along, but maybe not wide enough to prevent a rashly-opened door whacking an unsuspecting cyclist).
Maybe they couldn't afford a measuring tape at the planning stage.They should have allow a decent buffer zone and sufficient run in space for delivery vehicles it not rocket science is it. The loading bay should be further away from the crossing point as well.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe they couldn't afford a measuring tape at the planning stage.They should have allow a decent buffer zone and sufficient run in space for delivery vehicles it not rocket science is it.

Maybe they are trying to discourage big vehicles like that?


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[gbhibby]

Maybe they are trying to discourage big vehicles like that?


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Businesses still need to function so provision needs to be made for delivery vehicles, maybe we need to go back to horse and cart then. If you are planning a major project you need to look at these things. Businesses pay rates as well.

[J-C]

:greengrin


anyway, next...

great parking with this one but that is really so close to the Tram, lorries have been getting parking tickets for parking a bit on the pavement to avoid the Trams


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355151164_10167692988855408_8425560393036119820_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=T5VIUAre3KYAX9_uEDc&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDloIVqrsxTxk2_Xsd40EJm-mwEJRs-4ugg5QkIDM4TNw&oe=649F8B12

I posted earlier in this thread that the bottom end of Leith Walk is a disgrace and is literally 2 tram tracks with the odd loading bay, almost nowhere to drop off or pick up and what there is is far too small and close to the tram lines, the council are a joke and need emptied asap, don't get me started on the closure of many roads in and around the shore like Burgess St, Coburg St and Sandport Br.

[Hibby Bairn]

Just bin the cycle lane. Looks empty to me anyway.

🙃

[gbhibby]

I know someone who lives on Constitution Street in a listed building who had applied for planning to knock down a wall in his flat to allow it to be more open plan and was refused 5 times. He was excited when he received a letter through the post thinking it was an OK from the council, but no it was a letter explaining that they would be drilling into the stonework of his listed building outside his window to hang cables for the tram and it had all been agreed.

[Moulin Yarns]

Just bin the cycle lane. Looks empty to me anyway.

🙃

Last time I was in Edinburgh, the week we hammered Celtc, I stayed in balfour Street and was amazed how many folk were cycling up and down the walk.

[gbhibby]

Last time I was in Edinburgh, the week we hammered Celtc, I stayed in balfour Street and was amazed how many folk were cycling up and down the walk.
Were they using the cycle lanes though? You still get cyclists who cycle on the roads when there is a cycle lane there for use.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I posted earlier in this thread that the bottom end of Leith Walk is a disgrace and is literally 2 tram tracks with the odd loading bay, almost nowhere to drop off or pick up and what there is is far too small and close to the tram lines, the council are a joke and need emptied asap, don't get me started on the closure of many roads in and around the shore like Burgess St, Coburg St and Sandport Br.

The shore is a ****ing disaster now.

[Jack]

Maybe they are trying to discourage big vehicles like that?


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Or perhaps park round the corner or in a more appropriate place. Too many delivery drivers in cars, vans and trucks these days appear not to be able to take what they're delivering any further than their erky!

[J-C]

Were they using the cycle lanes though? You still get cyclists who cycle on the roads when there is a cycle lane there for use.

Happens all the time, especially the licra clad ones that think they're part of the Tour de France.

[Ozyhibby]

Happens all the time, especially the licra clad ones that think they're part of the Tour de France.

Less anti social than people driving cars belching out fumes that everyone else has to breath in though.


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[lapsedhibee]

You still get cyclists who cycle on the roads when there is a cycle lane there for use.

I saw a bus driver use a normal piece of road yesterday too, the complete and utter ******* .

[J-C]

Less anti social than people driving cars belching out fumes that everyone else has to breath in though.


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That's not the point though, hundreds of thousands have gone onto creating cycle lanes to make cyclists safer, yet many cyclists still ignore them because they feel they're above using them due to having proper bikes and all the clobber. Just look at all the would be racers on a Sunday in their big peletons taking up half the road to go for a wee jolly down the coast.

[SteveHFC]

That's not the point though, hundreds of thousands have gone onto creating cycle lanes to make cyclists safer, yet many cyclists still ignore them because they feel they're above using them due to having proper bikes and all the clobber. Just look at all the would be racers on a Sunday in their big peletons taking up half the road to go for a wee jolly down the coast.

Have also seen plenty of cyclists going through red lights.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's not the point though, hundreds of thousands have gone onto creating cycle lanes to make cyclists safer, yet many cyclists still ignore them because they feel they're above using them due to having proper bikes and all the clobber. Just look at all the would be racers on a Sunday in their big peletons taking up half the road to go for a wee jolly down the coast.

Personally, I avoid some cycle lanes because I think they're dangerous. Too narrow, prone to potholes and (in the autumn) wet leaves, and those bollards are a death-trap.

I've never worn Lycra in ma puff. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Personally, I avoid some cycle lanes because I think they're dangerous. Too narrow, prone to potholes and (in the autumn) wet leaves, and those bollards are a death-trap.

I've never worn Lycra in ma puff. :greengrin

Many of the cycle lanes in Edinburgh roads are too narrow for overtaking. If you have someone in the best lycra cycling at 15mph or more, and the slowest of normally-clads doing maybe 5mph, that's a lot of congestion waiting to happen unless the lycra-clads take to the bits of the road which are owned by car drivers.

[J-C]

Personally, I avoid some cycle lanes because I think they're dangerous. Too narrow, prone to potholes and (in the autumn) wet leaves, and those bollards are a death-trap.

I've never worn Lycra in ma puff. :greengrin


You're not a true cyclist then. :greengrin

[gbhibby]

Many of the cycle lanes in Edinburgh roads are too narrow for overtaking. If you have someone in the best lycra cycling at 15mph or more, and the slowest of normally-clads doing maybe 5mph, that's a lot of congestion waiting to happen unless the lycra-clads take to the bits of the road which are owned by car drivers.

Let's make cycle lanes lycra only with facial recognition cameras to catch the culprits not wearing lycra😁
Getting back on track no pun intended, what's happening with the tram inquiry?

[Moulin Yarns]

Were they using the cycle lanes though? You still get cyclists who cycle on the roads when there is a cycle lane there for use.

Yep.

[BS44]

I posted earlier in this thread that the bottom end of Leith Walk is a disgrace and is literally 2 tram tracks with the odd loading bay, almost nowhere to drop off or pick up and what there is is far too small and close to the tram lines, the council are a joke and need emptied asap, don't get me started on the closure of many roads in and around the shore like Burgess St, Coburg St and Sandport Br.

Does the camera at the Shore pick up cars that are heading in the direction of Henderson Street? There's a lot of vehicles ignoring the sign and still using that road though it's buses only in both directions now

[Jack]

Personally, I avoid some cycle lanes because I think they're dangerous. Too narrow, prone to potholes and (in the autumn) wet leaves, and those bollards are a death-trap.

I've never worn Lycra in ma puff. :greengrin

Don't think the lycra would go with the Just Eat box on your back 😆

[lapsedhibee]

Let's make cycle lanes lycra only with facial recognition cameras to catch the culprits not wearing lycra😁


Would catch Delivery Cyclists not only not wearing lycra, which is fine, but also cycling with their saddle far too low, which is not fine. Epidemic of knee problems in retired delivery cyclists a-coming, hope the NHS is well prepared.

[gbhibby]

Would catch Delivery Cyclists not only not wearing lycra, which is fine, but also cycling with their saddle far too low, which is not fine. Epidemic of knee problems in retired delivery cyclists a-coming, hope the NHS is well prepared.
Hope they have a gel pad on the saddle. Best invention ever for cyclists.

[McD]

Or perhaps park round the corner or in a more appropriate place. Too many delivery drivers in cars, vans and trucks these days appear not to be able to take what they're delivering any further than their erky!


more appropriate than the loading bay outside/near the premises they’re delivering to?

what if the goods they’re delivering are heavy, awkward or or large?


folk trying to make an honest living getting a hard time because of piss poor design when the tram works we’re put in

[Ozyhibby]

more appropriate than the loading bay outside/near the premises they’re delivering to?

what if the goods they’re delivering are heavy, awkward or or large?


folk trying to make an honest living getting a hard time because of piss poor design when the tram works we’re put in

That’s what trollies are for. It’s not about making things harder for people but about making the city more comfortable to live in without cars everywhere.


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[McD]

That’s what trollies are for. It’s not about making things harder for people but about making the city more comfortable to live in without cars everywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


how far should delivery people have to push those trollies though? What’s a reasonable distance, and should that distance be calculated based on size, weight, value? Many deliveries come on pallets, where the pallet trucks cannot be easily manoeuvred or run across bumpy ground.

How many commercial premises have deliveries that arrive in cars?

the council have designed those streets to have loading bays, allowing these businesses (who pay significant rates) to operate and serve the communities. The issue here is the badly designed layout, the picture above shows a well parked truck that is obstructing a tram, not because either the truck driver or the tram driver have done anything wrong, but because someone can’t do their job by measuring distance properly.

[Paulie Walnuts]

how far should delivery people have to push those trollies though? What’s a reasonable distance, and should that distance be calculated based on size, weight, value? Many deliveries come on pallets, where the pallet trucks cannot be easily manoeuvred or run across bumpy ground.

How many commercial premises have deliveries that arrive in cars?

the council have designed those streets to have loading bays, allowing these businesses (who pay significant rates) to operate and serve the communities. The issue here is the badly designed layout, the picture above shows a well parked truck that is obstructing a tram, not because either the truck driver or the tram driver have done anything wrong, but because someone can’t do their job by measuring distance properly.

:agree:

A lot of people who criticise couriers etc would likely be up in arms when their deliveries from online start costing them £15 a pop because they take the drivers about 4x the amount of time and way more effort because they’ve had to park 2 blocks away.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:

A lot of people who criticise couriers etc would likely be up in arms when their deliveries from online start costing them £15 a pop because they take the drivers about 4x the amount of time and way more effort because they’ve had to park 2 blocks away.

Might make them walk to their local shop.[emoji106]


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[J-C]

Does the camera at the Shore pick up cars that are heading in the direction of Henderson Street? There's a lot of vehicles ignoring the sign and still using that road though it's buses only in both directions now

No, camera is entering the shore from there.

[Jack]

how far should delivery people have to push those trollies though? What’s a reasonable distance, and should that distance be calculated based on size, weight, value? Many deliveries come on pallets, where the pallet trucks cannot be easily manoeuvred or run across bumpy ground.

How many commercial premises have deliveries that arrive in cars?

the council have designed those streets to have loading bays, allowing these businesses (who pay significant rates) to operate and serve the communities. The issue here is the badly designed layout, the picture above shows a well parked truck that is obstructing a tram, not because either the truck driver or the tram driver have done anything wrong, but because someone can’t do their job by measuring distance properly.

I used to be a part-time courier of sorts and pushing a trolley through the streets of Glasgow, to avoid the numerous bus gates they have, was quite common. One delivery I had was a 10 minute push each way! Better that than their employer getting fines and seeing what a inconsiderate driver they are!

Anecdotally it is rare to see a liveried van (except Amazon obviously 😉) parking badly but quite normal to see one that has no livery parking like a prìck.

If the guys that deliver beer to the Windsor can park and deliver from Montgomery Street there's no reason other large delivery vehicles can't do the same.

Where there's a will, or a penalty, a way is found quite quickly.

[hibee_girl]

Does the camera at the Shore pick up cars that are heading in the direction of Henderson Street? There's a lot of vehicles ignoring the sign and still using that road though it's buses only in both directions now

I read that you can drive towards Henderson street from 6am to midday.

I haven’t tried it though :greengrin

[gbhibby]

That’s what trollies are for. It’s not about making things harder for people but about making the city more comfortable to live in without cars everywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And no businesses anywhere! we have moved on from the days when my dad had to push a trolley loaded with panes of glass up Leith Walk in the late 1940s. You have to strike a balance.

[Ozyhibby]

And no businesses anywhere! we have moved on from the days when my dad had to push a trolley loaded with panes of glass up Leith Walk in the late 1940s. You have to strike a balance.

There are pedestrian precincts all over Europe that show that it can be done. And businesses seem to be thriving in them.


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[Since90+2]

That’s what trollies are for. It’s not about making things harder for people but about making the city more comfortable to live in without cars everywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they've installed loading bays then they should be usable without blocking the trams. It's just bad design, nothing else.

[Since90+2]

There are pedestrian precincts all over Europe that show that it can be done. And businesses seem to be thriving in them.


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I'd imagine most are designed to allow deliveries to the back of the buildings though.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd imagine most are designed to allow deliveries to the back of the buildings though.

No most like the areas of Madrid and Beijing allow a small window, Madrid is going to be 2 hours when deliveries can be made in the area. After that it's electric bike vans only.

I was reading amazon use vans into the city of ghent then change to cargo vans in the old town where cars aren't allowed. Trade has shot up 20% in the city, same roughly with bike use, pollution is down 18%, hotels and bars are seeing 10% less bankruptcy. Public transport and emergency vehicles are still allowed in.

[Since90+2]

No most like the areas of Madrid and Beijing allow a small window, Madrid is going to be 2 hours when deliveries can be made in the area. After that it's electric bike vans only.

I was reading amazon use vans into the city of ghent then change to cargo vans in the old town where cars aren't allowed. Trade has shot up 20% in the city, same roughly with bike use, pollution is down 18%, hotels and bars are seeing 10% less bankruptcy. Public transport and emergency vehicles are still allowed in.

Well even that wouldn't be feasible here, unless you made the delivery window 3am-5am.

The trams start running at about 5.30am.

[Stairway 2 7]

Well even that wouldn't be feasible here, unless you made the delivery window 3am-5am.

The trams start running at about 5.30am.

Most windows are in the night and the also have to be smaller vehicles with zero emissions. but many cities have no windows and the companies have adapted. In ghent the street cleaners, amazon and tradesmen consolidate there deliveries outside the city then its only cargo bikes inside. Low emissions and a city coming alive again makes the difficulties worth it

[Since90+2]

Most windows are in the night and the also have to be smaller vehicles with zero emissions. but many cities have no windows and the companies have adapted. In ghent the street cleaners, amazon and tradesmen consolidate there deliveries outside the city then its only cargo bikes inside. Low emissions and a city coming alive again makes the difficulties worth it

You can't expect companies, both those delivering and those taking delivery of the stock, to suddenly start preparing for 3am deliveries.

Smaller independent stores especially simply don't have the staffing for that, are we now expecting these small businesses to staff from 3am? An additional cost added to them through no fault of their own. No doubt they'd also have additional delivery costs if they asked for deliveries at that time, thats even if it could be facilitated.

How about they just make the delivery bays wide enough to accommodate delivery vans. That would seem a far easier and fairer way to accommodate getting these stores essential deliveries so they can actually trade.

[Stairway 2 7]

You can't expect companies, both those delivering and those taking delivery of the stock, to suddenly start preparing for 3am deliveries.

Smaller independent stores especially simply don't have the staffing for that, are we now expecting these small businesses to staff from 3am? An additional cost added to them through no fault of their own. No doubt they'd also have additional delivery costs if they asked for deliveries at that time, thats even if it could be facilitated.

How about they just make the delivery bays wide enough to accommodate delivery vans. That would seem a far easier and fairer way to accommodate getting these stores essential deliveries so they can actually trade.

The flaw in your argument is these cities already have. Companies in some cities are getting all their deliveries by cargo bike. Ghent has hubs where lorries drop their deliveries and its gets put in electric cargo bikes. Companies aren't going bust there is 7% less closure in pubs and 20% more new businesses opening. The cities are places people want to be in with no vehicles.

Like the bottle return scheme, Scotland isn't too daft to manage what other countries do. Cities will go more car free regardless. With temperatures set to rise 4 degrees this year we can't play at being green we need to find the solutions

[Since90+2]

The flaw in your argument is these cities already have. Companies in some cities are getting all their deliveries by cargo bike. Ghent has hubs where lorries drop their deliveries and its gets put in electric cargo bikes. Companies aren't going bust there is 7% less closure in pubs and 20% more new businesses opening. The cities are places people want to be in with no vehicles.

Like the bottle return scheme, Scotland isn't too daft to manage what other countries do. Cities will go more car free regardless. With temperatures set to rise 4 degrees this year we can't play at being green we need to find the solutions

I don't think you understand how business works if you think that's a flaw in the argument.

If it were the case that we were moving towards needing compliant delivery vehicles only, cargo bikes after a certain time,delivery hubs, 3am deliveries ect then it should have been communicated to businesses and planned for years in advance.

You can't just pin that on a business overnight and expect them to change their operating procedures at a touch of a button.

They built loading bays which the businesses would have assumed would be for deliveries. Pretty simple.

Your idea is great but like most of what Edinburgh council do has absolutely no pre planning whatsoever.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think you understand how business works if you think that's a flaw in the argument.

If it were the case that we were moving towards needing compliant delivery vehicles only, cargo bikes after a certain time,delivery hubs, 3am deliveries ect then it should have been communicated to businesses and planned for years in advance.

You can't just pin that on a business overnight and expect them to change their operating procedures at a touch of a button.

They built loading bays which the businesses would have assumed would be for deliveries. Pretty simple.

Your idea is great but like most of what Edinburgh council do has absolutely no pre planning whatsoever.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we adopt such a policy tomorrow but it has to be a mid to long term aim.

I remember visiting a friend in Montpellier a few years back and was struck by how vibrant the city centre seemed. Pubs, cafes, restaurants all with outdoor space, people just sitting on benches and walls watching the world go by, families out walking together etc etc. They had implemented late night delivery windows and cargo bikes and locals (or at least the ones I spoke to) seemed to like it.

From a business point of view when the trams works were on Leith walk there was a cargo hub system at which drivers could drop goods and people were employed to use trolleys to walk the goods to their destination. There was one on Montgomery Street and I think another on Dalmeny or Iona Street. My work uses both 7.5T lorries and Sprinters and the drivers loved the system. Not so much the traffic and diversions with the roadworks but when they actually got to the cargo hubs it was so easy. Much preferable for them to just drop the stuff than try to find a loading bay, work their way into one, unload onto trolleys themselves and then cart the stuff a couple of hundred yards up the street. Probably more problematic for the guys delivering kegs of beer and the like but any system can have exceptions when required.

I look at cities I have visited, particularly in Scandinavia, and see this amazing infrastructure for cyclists and pedestrians that sits alongside busy cafes and restaurants and so on. They seem to make it work and I don't believe for a second that Scotland (or the UK as a whole) is too stupid to do similar. We need to move beyond the 'but this is how we have always done it' mentality and prioritise spaces in and around the city centre and other such areas for public transport and non motorised transport.

[Since90+2]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we adopt such a policy tomorrow but it has to be a mid to long term aim.

I remember visiting a friend in Montpellier a few years back and was struck by how vibrant the city centre seemed. Pubs, cafes, restaurants all with outdoor space, people just sitting on benches and walls watching the world go by, families out walking together etc etc. They had implemented late night delivery windows and cargo bikes and locals (or at least the ones I spoke to) seemed to like it.

From a business point of view when the trams works were on Leith walk there was a cargo hub system at which drivers could drop goods and people were employed to use trolleys to walk the goods to their destination. There was one on Montgomery Street and I think another on Dalmeny or Iona Street. My work uses both 7.5T lorries and Sprinters and the drivers loved the system. Not so much the traffic and diversions with the roadworks but when they actually got to the cargo hubs it was so easy. Much preferable for them to just drop the stuff than try to find a loading bay, work their way into one, unload onto trolleys themselves and then cart the stuff a couple of hundred yards up the street. Probably more problematic for the guys delivering kegs of beer and the like but any system can have exceptions when required.

I look at cities I have visited, particularly in Scandinavia, and see this amazing infrastructure for cyclists and pedestrians that sits alongside busy cafes and restaurants and so on. They seem to make it work and I don't believe for a second that Scotland (or the UK as a whole) is too stupid to do similar. We need to move beyond the 'but this is how we have always done it' mentality and prioritise spaces in and around the city centre and other such areas for public transport and non motorised transport.

Re your first paragraph.

That's all well and good, but atleast make the delivery bays wide enough until those plans are in place and workable.

[Pretty Boy]

Re your first paragraph.

That's all well and good, but atleast make the delivery bays wide enough until those plans are in place and workable.

Absolutely.

I wouldn't disagree that the current set up is a bit of a shambles for just about everyone. Poorly designed road layout, poorly designed loading bays, poorly designed pavement space, badly placed pavement clutter and poorly designed cycle lanes. It's quite an achievement to have a set up on a major thoroughfare that pleases almost no one who uses it.

The trams are very good mind you.

[Gatecrasher]

regarless of design, if you can't park in a way that won't bring the tram/traffic system then park somewhere else instead of being a completely selfish bellend.

One of the fundemental issues with travelling in this country at the moment is that a lot of people have little or no consideration for others, whether that be bad parking, running red lights or using phone speakers on public transport.

[Since90+2]

regarless of design, if you can't park in a way that won't bring the tram/traffic system then park somewhere else instead of being a completely selfish bellend.

The photo I see was of a delivery van who had parked perfectly in the space, right up against the curbside. They had done nothing wrong as far as I could see, but it still blocked the tram.

One of the issues is they can't just simply park elsewhere. There's nowhere else to park.

No deliveries means no stock and pretty soon the business is not able to trade. That's nobodies fault apart from the fol who have designed the whole thing.

[Gatecrasher]

The photo I see was of a delivery van who had parked perfectly in the space, right up against the curbside. They had done nothing wrong as far as I could see, but it still blocked the tram.

One of the issues is they can't just simply park elsewhere. There's nowhere else to park.

No deliveries means no stock and pretty soon the business is not able to trade. That's nobodies fault apart from the fol who have designed the whole thing.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, even if he did park perfectly, it's a design issue. He's still blocking the tram. Personally I would have noticed that and moved regardless. I would be completely embarrassed if I did that. I would have reported the issue to the council and moved on.

The lorry also has a lift for a trolly or pallet lifts so could have parked further away IMO.

[Since90+2]

Yes, that's what I'm saying, even if he did park perfectly, it's a design issue. He's still blocking the tram. Personally I would have noticed that and moved regardless. I would be completely embarrassed if I did that. I would have reported the issue to the council and moved on.

The lorry also has a lift for a trolly or pallet lifts so could have parked further away IMO.

Parked where though? If you know Leith at all, you'll know lorries can't just park up anywhere, probably the only viable place for a vehicle that size is in the loading bay.

I'm not sure I'd blame the driver here, what else is he meant to do? He's got to deliver stock so the shop can trade as normal. He might be blocking the road for a few minutes and that might inconvenience a few people, it's either that or don't deliver the stock and inconvenience the people who pay his wages. I know what I'd be doing.

It's not the fault of delivery drivers the mess the council have made of this.

[Stairway 2 7]

Parked where though? If you know Leith at all, you'll know lorries can't just park up anywhere, probably the only viable place for a vehicle that size is in the loading bay.

I'm not sure I'd blame the driver here, what else is he meant to do? He's got to deliver stock so the shop can trade as normal. He might be blocking the road for a few minutes and that might inconvenience a few people, it's either that or don't deliver the stock and inconvenience the people who pay his wages. I know what I'd be doing.

It's not the fault of delivery drivers the mess the council have made of this.

The picture of the lorry in the last page didn't block the tram? The only one that blocked the tram was the van that parked diagonal

[Gatecrasher]

Parked where though? If you know Leith at all, you'll know lorries can't just park up anywhere, probably the only viable place for a vehicle that size is in the loading bay.

I'm not sure I'd blame the driver here, what else is he meant to do? He's got to deliver stock so the shop can trade as normal. He might be blocking the road for a few minutes and that might inconvenience a few people, it's either that or don't deliver the stock and inconvenience the people who pay his wages. I know what I'd be doing.

It's not the fault of delivery drivers the mess the council have made of this.

I agree the bay size is too small and the council are to blame for that, however there is still an element of personal responsability and consideration for other road users here, usually the lorry driver would get away with this but because the trams can't move around and has therefore stopped somewhere he shouldn't have.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I agree the bay size is too small and the council are to blame for that, however there is still an element of personal responsability and consideration for other road users here, usually the lorry driver would get away with this but because the trams can't move around and has therefore stopped somewhere he shouldn't have.

The tram can wait a couple of minutes. It’s not the drivers fault, he’s got a job to do and he’s parked in the designated bay. If he doesn’t turn up with any stock then it could be a business going bust, numerous customers inconvenienced by them having no stock and a rollicking from their employer for not delivering it. If the tram is a couple of minutes late it’s a couple of minutes late. I know what one sounds like it could carry a bigger downside to me, and it’s not the slightly late tram.

[Stairway 2 7]

The tram can wait a couple of minutes. It’s not the drivers fault, he’s got a job to do and he’s parked in the designated bay. If he doesn’t turn up with any stock then it could be a business going bust, numerous customers inconvenienced by them having no stock and a rollicking from their employer for not delivering it. If the tram is a couple of minutes late it’s a couple of minutes late. I know what one sounds like it could carry a bigger downside to me, and it’s not the slightly late tram.

The tram didn't have to wait it went past. There are obviously hundreds of deliveries a day and so far only one stopped tram due to a van parking like an eegit

[Mon Dieu4]

I agree the bay size is too small and the council are to blame for that, however there is still an element of personal responsability and consideration for other road users here, usually the lorry driver would get away with this but because the trams can't move around and has therefore stopped somewhere he shouldn't have.

This is the only way the council will potentially get it sorted, if drivers just stated the bays are too wee then they would be fobbed off, the fact there was a delay actually proves the point in real time and hopefully will make them more likely to sort it, might just be me but measuring the size of the biggest lorries making deliveries and making sure the bays are fit for purpose sounds like the most obvious thing in the world to have done at the outset

[Paulie Walnuts]

The tram didn't have to wait it went past. There are obviously hundreds of deliveries a day and so far only one stopped tram due to a van parking like an eegit

Ah I presume it had to stop.

In that case.. are we just discussing a tram going past a van with no real issues? :greengrin

[overdrive]

This is the only way the council will potentially get it sorted, if drivers just stated the bays are too wee then they would be fobbed off, the fact there was a delay actually proves the point in real time and hopefully will make them more likely to sort it, might just be me but measuring the size of the biggest lorries making deliveries and making sure the bays are fit for purpose sounds like the most obvious thing in the world to have done at the outset

It might be obvious but it doesn’t surprise me. They clearly did no testing on some parts of the wider system. They clearly didn’t test the tram could get past with a lorry parked in these bays. They clearly didn’t test the m-ticket QR codes worked at the stops either. There’s some stops on the extended route where none of the QR codes worked at go live. I’m not sure whether they have been fixed yet.

Edit: maybe they did test the bays as I also assumed the tram had to stop.

[Pretty Boy]

It might be obvious but it doesn’t surprise me. They clearly did no testing on some parts of the wider system. They clearly didn’t test the tram could get past with a lorry parked in these bays. They clearly didn’t test the m-ticket QR codes worked at the stops either. There’s some stops on the extended route where none of the QR codes worked at go live. I’m not sure whether they have been fixed yet.

Edit: maybe they did test the bays as I also assumed the tram had to stop.

Do the trams have the 'tap, tap, cap' system the buses have? I know that wouldn't work for the airport but for journeys within the city zone it would seem a smart move. I've not used the tram that often but it's usually just a single journey so i just buy a ticket so don't know if such a contactless system is in place. It took long enough to get it on the buses but now it's in place it's brilliant.

More generally there is definitely snagging across the network and I'm surprised some of it wasn't identified during the extensive testing. At the Foot of the Walk it's not uncommon for a tram still to be heading down towards Constitution Street across the junction when the lights to pass from Great Junction Street to Duke Street (and vice versa) have already turned green. Same with the pedestrian crossing at the youth hostel at Annandale Street, at least twice I've been waiting to cross, the green man has activated but there is still half a tram trundling through the crossing. Of course it could be tram drivers gambling and running the lights just as they change but a wee tweak to the timings could make it all a bit safer and is surely the kind of thing testing should identify.

[Ozyhibby]

Do the trams have the 'tap, tap, cap' system the buses have? I know that wouldn't work for the airport but for journeys within the city zone it would seem a smart move. I've not used the tram that often but it's usually just a single journey so i just buy a ticket so don't know if such a contactless system is in place. It took long enough to get it on the buses but now it's in place it's brilliant.

More generally there is definitely snagging across the network and I'm surprised some of it wasn't identified during the extensive testing. At the Foot of the Walk it's not uncommon for a tram still to be heading down towards Constitution Street across the junction when the lights to pass from Great Junction Street to Duke Street (and vice versa) have already turned green. Same with the pedestrian crossing at the youth hostel at Annandale Street, at least twice I've been waiting to cross, the green man has activated but there is still half a tram trundling through the crossing. Of course it could be tram drivers gambling and running the lights just as they change but a wee tweak to the timings could make it all a bit safer and is surely the kind of thing testing should identify.

Only been on it once but ticketing needs work. It should be a lot easier than it is.


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[overdrive]

Do the trams have the 'tap, tap, cap' system the buses have? I know that wouldn't work for the airport but for journeys within the city zone it would seem a smart move. I've not used the tram that often but it's usually just a single journey so i just buy a ticket so don't know if such a contactless system is in place. It took long enough to get it on the buses but now it's in place it's brilliant.

More generally there is definitely snagging across the network and I'm surprised some of it wasn't identified during the extensive testing. At the Foot of the Walk it's not uncommon for a tram still to be heading down towards Constitution Street across the junction when the lights to pass from Great Junction Street to Duke Street (and vice versa) have already turned green. Same with the pedestrian crossing at the youth hostel at Annandale Street, at least twice I've been waiting to cross, the green man has activated but there is still half a tram trundling through the crossing. Of course it could be tram drivers gambling and running the lights just as they change but a wee tweak to the timings could make it all a bit safer and is surely the kind of thing testing should identify.

No, the tap tap cap doesn’t apply to the trams. You can pay contactless at the ticket machines but it doesn’t cap the amount which has the effect that a day ticket can be cheaper if you travel exclusively by bus. They used to do bundles of day tickets on the m-tickets app that brought the cost down of a day ticket down to the same as the tap tap cap one but they’ve done away with these now and replaced them with 3-5 day tickets (ie a ticket that lasts between 3 and 5 days) but these new tickets only apply to the tram and not the bus, so no use if you use both the tram and the bus.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ah I presume it had to stop.

In that case.. are we just discussing a tram going past a van with no real issues? :greengrin

Burst out laughing ta 🤣. Leith walk does look like it's been designed by a bairn though. Seeing as they had a chance of a whole new street it's mental that's what they came up with. The Bike lane is like a grand prix track so Bikes go on the road.

[gbhibby]

No, the tap tap cap doesn’t apply to the trams. You can pay contactless at the ticket machines but it doesn’t cap the amount which has the effect that a day ticket can be cheaper if you travel exclusively by bus. They used to do bundles of day tickets on the m-tickets app that brought the cost down of a day ticket down to the same as the tap tap cap one but they’ve done away with these now and replaced them with 3-5 day tickets (ie a ticket that lasts between 3 and 5 days) but these new tickets only apply to the tram and not the bus, so no use if you use both the tram and the bus.
If London can do it for the whole bus/underground network why couldn't Edinburgh, the ticketing arrangements for the trams is something out the dark ages compared to London.

[Jack]

If London can do it for the whole bus/underground network why couldn't Edinburgh, the ticketing arrangements for the trams is something out the dark ages compared to London.

I'm sure I read somewhere quite recently that it's something that will be introduced. As I've got an auld folks pass and don't pay anyway I paid little attention so couldn't even say when, just they will.

[The Tubs]

Burst out laughing ta 🤣. Leith walk does look like it's been designed by a bairn though. Seeing as they had a chance of a whole new street it's mental that's what they came up with. The Bike lane is like a grand prix track so Bikes go on the road.

From the bizarre temporary cycle lanes with bollards to the ones down Leith Walk, it seems like an attempt to sabotage cycling in Edinburgh and gain Conservative councilors votes.

[Scouse Hibee]

Just took the tram to Newhaven as I wanted to see the full route. Decent journey and handy for getting off at the shore.

[SHODAN]

Now I can get the tram straight from Leith Walk back to Ingliston for all home games instead of taking the bus lottery to Hermiston. Result!

[Scouse Hibee]

No, the tap tap cap doesn’t apply to the trams. You can pay contactless at the ticket machines but it doesn’t cap the amount which has the effect that a day ticket can be cheaper if you travel exclusively by bus. They used to do bundles of day tickets on the m-tickets app that brought the cost down of a day ticket down to the same as the tap tap cap one but they’ve done away with these now and replaced them with 3-5 day tickets (ie a ticket that lasts between 3 and 5 days) but these new tickets only apply to the tram and not the bus, so no use if you use both the tram and the bus.

You can still buy a day ticket from bus driver that you can use on buses and trams ( tram between Newhaven and Gogar) for £5. I have used one today on buses and tram.

[Smartie]

Do the trams have the 'tap, tap, cap' system the buses have? I know that wouldn't work for the airport but for journeys within the city zone it would seem a smart move. I've not used the tram that often but it's usually just a single journey so i just buy a ticket so don't know if such a contactless system is in place. It took long enough to get it on the buses but now it's in place it's brilliant.

More generally there is definitely snagging across the network and I'm surprised some of it wasn't identified during the extensive testing. At the Foot of the Walk it's not uncommon for a tram still to be heading down towards Constitution Street across the junction when the lights to pass from Great Junction Street to Duke Street (and vice versa) have already turned green. Same with the pedestrian crossing at the youth hostel at Annandale Street, at least twice I've been waiting to cross, the green man has activated but there is still half a tram trundling through the crossing. Of course it could be tram drivers gambling and running the lights just as they change but a wee tweak to the timings could make it all a bit safer and is surely the kind of thing testing should identify.

I've been really impressed by it so far and have used it loads but I accept the ticketing could be handier.

The closest stop to me is Ocean Terminal. There are 2 ticket machines and the one facing South can be hit and miss when the sun is glaring at it (I think that's the problem). The other machine is almost permanently out of order so it leaves a lot of people to use one machine, many who might be tourists or many who might be using one of the machines for the first time. It's infuriating when you arrive at the stop and need a ticket but have to wait for yonks for the single machine that works, whilst the trams come and go.

At least the service is frequent enough that it doesn't end up being a big deal but it just feels like there should be an easier alternative in this day and age, especially when I've got used to tapping my debit card on the bus over the past few years which is very handy.

There probably is a simpler way that stopping and buying a ticket at the machine but I've not really figured it out.

[Scouse Hibee]

I've been really impressed by it so far and have used it loads but I accept the ticketing could be handier.

The closest stop to me is Ocean Terminal. There are 2 ticket machines and the one facing South can be hit and miss when the sun is glaring at it (I think that's the problem). The other machine is almost permanently out of order so it leaves a lot of people to use one machine, many who might be tourists or many who might be using one of the machines for the first time. It's infuriating when you arrive at the stop and need a ticket but have to wait for yonks for the single machine that works, whilst the trams come and go.

At least the service is frequent enough that it doesn't end up being a big deal but it just feels like there should be an easier alternative in this day and age, especially when I've got used to tapping my debit card on the bus over the past few years which is very handy.

There probably is a simpler way that stopping and buying a ticket at the machine but I've not really figured it out.

There is, the m ticketsapp.

[overdrive]

You can still buy a day ticket from bus driver that you can use on buses and trams ( tram between Newhaven and Gogar) for £5. I have used one today on buses and tram.

Yep but it’s not as convenient as the tap tap cap and it costs more.

[overdrive]

There is, the m ticketsapp.

It is good on the old part of the network. A lot of the QR codes on the new section don’t work. A couple of times I’ve boarded at Foot of the Walk where no QR codes work (they might now it’s been a couple of weeks), told the conductor and the solution is you have jump off at Balfour Street, find the QR that works, scan it and get back on before the doors shut again.

[Scouse Hibee]

Yep but it’s not as convenient as the tap tap cap and it costs more.

Only 20p more and pretty convenient for me today, there is also the m ticket app so admittedly not as good as tap tap cap but still pretty good value.

[Scouse Hibee]

It is good on the old part of the network. A lot of the QR codes on the new section don’t work. A couple of times I’ve boarded at Foot of the Walk where no QR codes work (they might now it’s been a couple of weeks), told the conductor and the solution is you have jump off at Balfour Street, find the QR that works, scan it and get back on before the doors shut again.

FFS really? That’s not good, hopefully they have sorted it now. I also had a tourist ask me today why they had named the tram Newhaven!

[Mon Dieu4]

It is good on the old part of the network. A lot of the QR codes on the new section don’t work. A couple of times I’ve boarded at Foot of the Walk where no QR codes work (they might now it’s been a couple of weeks), told the conductor and the solution is you have jump off at Balfour Street, find the QR that works, scan it and get back on before the doors shut again.

I use the actual Edinburgh Trams app, it's called ET app, you can buy bulk day tickets, think it was £16 for 5 and you just activate it on your phone, no need to scan any QR codes but doesn't get you on buses

[Stairway 2 7]

I use the actual Edinburgh Trams app, it's called ET app, you can buy bulk day tickets, think it was £16 for 5 and you just activate it on your phone, no need to scan any QR codes

Yeah the app is good just buy the tickets there and use when you need, no need to use machine or qr codes. They obviously haven't advertised this well though

[Hibs4185]

Only been on it once but ticketing needs work. It should be a lot easier than it is.


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There was a tram at Haymarket and I had to buy a ticket before getting on board. I had to scan through the route and select my destination which took a few seconds. Doesn’t sound like a lot but when you’re stressed trying to get a ticket, it’s incredibly infuriating.

The point is….it’s a set fare whether it’s one stop or the whole route. Why not just have an option for a single or single to the airport? Far easier

[Stairway 2 7]

There was a tram at Haymarket and I had to buy a ticket before getting on board. I had to scan through the route and select my destination which took a few seconds. Doesn’t sound like a lot but when you’re stressed trying to get a ticket, it’s incredibly infuriating.

The point is….it’s a set fare whether it’s one stop or the whole route. Why not just have an option for a single or single to the airport? Far easier

Can buy a single on the app either city or airport. Can get city day ticket for £5 too, that covers bus and tram.

Last 180 days so can keep one spare

[Just Alf]

Just wish the tap tap cap extended to both trams and buses.... would be a game changer , especially as it not only caps your 'taps' to a day saver but if you use it a lot over the course of a full week it caps the whole lot to a weekly ticket. Can only dream

[Stairway 2 7]

Just wish the tap tap cap extended to both trams and buses.... would be a game changer , especially as it not only caps your 'taps' to a day saver but if you use it a lot over the course of a full week it caps the whole lot to a weekly ticket. Can only dream

Council convener said it would hopefully come in this year

[Ozyhibby]

Just wish the tap tap cap extended to both trams and buses.... would be a game changer , especially as it not only caps your 'taps' to a day saver but if you use it a lot over the course of a full week it caps the whole lot to a weekly ticket. Can only dream

The problem is likely the trams multiple doors for getting on and off. With the bus, the driver makes sure everyone taps. They can’t do that with the trams.
The tube in London is a much more closed system so you tap when you enter the station although the amount of people not paying there is huge anyway.
I’m sure they will try to work on a solution.


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[Pretty Boy]

The problem is likely the trams multiple doors for getting on and off. With the bus, the driver makes sure everyone taps. They can’t do that with the trams.
The tube in London is a much more closed system so you tap when you enter the station although the amount of people not paying there is huge anyway.
I’m sure they will try to work on a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fare dodging will happen on any system. I often get the train from Waverley to Brunstane and if the train isn't behind the ticket gates I know plenty people who don't pay. Contactless systems are a risk but maximum convenience for the honest majority should be the aim.

That or free public transport to encourage more people to use it. We can but dream......

[Just Alf]

Council convener said it would hopefully come in this year
Fingers crossed!


The problem is likely the trams multiple doors for getting on and off. With the bus, the driver makes sure everyone taps. They can’t do that with the trams.
The tube in London is a much more closed system so you tap when you enter the station although the amount of people not paying there is huge anyway.
I’m sure they will try to work on a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGood point... maybe the tram guy/gal that checks the tickets could get you to do a tap, if the system sees there's been a tap in the last hour it doesn't charge, if not it takes the price of a ticket (or more likely a penalty charge?) :dunno:

[Smartie]

Good point... maybe the tram guy/gal that checks the tickets could get you to do a tap, if the system sees there's been a tap in the last hour it doesn't charge, if not it takes the price of a ticket (or more likely a penalty charge?) :dunno:

In all fairness - the ticket checkers are pretty vigilant and persistent.

I can't see much getting past them.

The ticketing feels a bit clunky and new but I can't say anything other than I've been totally impressed by the tram so far. Living near Ocean Terminal and working at the West End, it's particularly handy for me and even allowing for ticketing mishaps it's miles better than the various buses have been over the past few years.

[gbhibby]

The problem is likely the trams multiple doors for getting on and off. With the bus, the driver makes sure everyone taps. They can’t do that with the trams.
The tube in London is a much more closed system so you tap when you enter the station although the amount of people not paying there is huge anyway.
I’m sure they will try to work on a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Multiple doors and taping areas on London Buses only the driver. When I was in London everyone tapped who got on at the back door. If there is a person on the tram they could go around with a hand held machine. No rocket science is it.

[overdrive]

Multiple doors and taping areas on London Buses only the driver. When I was in London everyone tapped who got on at the back door. If there is a person on the tram they could go around with a hand held machine. No rocket science is it.

They already do go round with a hand held machine to check ridacards/young person/senior entitlement cards have been tapped so it wouldn’t be a stretch to extend that to bank cards

[gbhibby]

They already do go round with a hand held machine to check ridacards/young person/senior entitlement cards have been tapped so it wouldn’t be a stretch to extend that to bank cards
Exactly! to cut down on cheats the trams could be tap tap.That would help, the tap out machines could be at all tram stops. If no tap out especially on westbound journeys you will be charged the full airport cost. Wouldn't be an issue around the airport Eastbound.

[overdrive]

I use the actual Edinburgh Trams app, it's called ET app, you can buy bulk day tickets, think it was £16 for 5 and you just activate it on your phone, no need to scan any QR codes but doesn't get you on buses

Yeah I know the day tickets you don’t need to scan but you do for singles.

I wasn’t aware of that app but just downloaded it and all the tickets on there are only valid on trams, not buses, including the day tickets.

You used to be able to bulk buy day tickets on the m-tickets app that were valid on both bus and tram which got you them at the same price as the tap tap cap day ticket rate on the buses.

Yet another app though - so you have one for tickets for bus and tram, one for tram only which seems to be completely different tickets to what you can get on the other one, and then an app for times, route planning etc. You have a capping system on buses but not trams. There are bundles of tram tickets you can buy on the website… some of which are the same as the ones on the ET app but are cheaper on the website vs the app. In fact there’s at least one other app as a tourist asked me for help with it the other week - no idea what it was but it wasn’t the ET or m-tickets app.

It is quite complicated. I can only imagine how confused tourists or casual users are.

Edit: my mistake (because it’s confusing)… the ones you can buy on the website are not the same as the ones on the app hence the difference in price… the ones on the website have to be used on consecutive days.

[Stairway 2 7]

The tender for the new system said it had to integrate the tap system across busses and trams. Last I heard was transport convener saying he was hoping it would be implemented by the end of the year. I'm sure they will have a system in place.

Until then buying a ticket on the app is really easy

[Stairway 2 7]

Yeah I know the day tickets you don’t need to scan but you do for singles.

I wasn’t aware of that app but just downloaded it and all the tickets on there are only valid on trams, not buses, including the day tickets.

You used to be able to bulk buy day tickets on the m-tickets app that were valid on both bus and tram which got you them at the same price as the tap tap cap day ticket rate on the buses.

Yet another app though - so you have one for tickets for bus and tram, one for tram only which seems to be completely different tickets to what you can get on the other one, and then an app for times, route planning etc. You have a capping system on buses but not trams. There are bundles of tram tickets you can buy on the website… some of which are the same as the ones on the ET app but are cheaper on the website vs the app. In fact there’s at least one other app as a tourist asked me for help with it the other week - no idea what it was but it wasn’t the ET or m-tickets app.

It is quite complicated. I can only imagine how confused tourists or casual users are.

On the m ticket app you can bulk buy day tickets that do bus and tram, or singles for either bus or tram

that's the app I have

[overdrive]

On the m ticket app you can bulk buy day tickets that do bus and tram, or singles for either bus or tram

that's the app I have

Have you tried recently? They were removed when the extension opened. I used to get them.

Unless you just mean adding 5 day tickets to your basket and buying them… which costs £5 x however many tickets. Previously you could buy a bundle at a discount.

[Stairway 2 7]

Have you tried recently? They were removed when the extension opened. I used to get them.

Unless you just mean adding 5 day tickets to your basket and buying them… which costs £5 x however many tickets. Previously you could buy a bundle at a discount.

Yes yesterday. Checked app just now can still buy them £5 a day ticket to be used on tram and bus

Ah saw the edit nah doesn't appear to be a bundle, might have to wait until tap cap gets rolled out

[Scouse Hibee]

Also noticed today they on the three trams we were on they never checked my wife’s Scottish entitlement card on their scanner just looked at it and said that’s fine yet they checked all other bus passes. Hardly any point in her scanning it before boarding if they don’t check it.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Also noticed today they on the three trams we were on they never checked my wife’s Scottish entitlement card on their scanner just looked at it and said that’s fine yet they checked all other bus passes. Hardly any point in her scanning it before boarding if they don’t check it.

I'm not sure what the point of scanning them is anyway.

[Jack]

Also noticed today they on the three trams we were on they never checked my wife’s Scottish entitlement card on their scanner just looked at it and said that’s fine yet they checked all other bus passes. Hardly any point in her scanning it before boarding if they don’t check it.

They've not scanned them for a few months now, handy if I'm in a hurry as I don't need to use the machine before I board.


I'm not sure what the point of scanning them is anyway.

If you don't scan your entitlement card before you board the tram LRT doesn't get the reimbursement for the journey by the local council/government.

[Since90+2]

Do council / government workers get free travel on the trams?

[staunchhibby]

Residents outside of Edinburgh with bus pass do not get free travel on trams.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Do council / government workers get free travel on the trams?

I work for the UK Government and I definitely don’t.

[Jack]

Residents outside of Edinburgh with bus pass do not get free travel on trams.

Residents outside of Edinburgh get other wee added benefits. As far as I know the weegies get their underground, Fifers get rail travel on the Fife Circle and I'm sure there's others that don't spring to mind at the moment.

A benefit that many don't know about is the NEC can be used on some ferries.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If you don't scan your entitlement card before you board the tram LRT doesn't get the reimbursement for the journey by the local council/government.

Aye, right enough. 👍

[J-C]

Old codgers bus passes used to be limited to local buses and inter city buses, that changed a wee bit ago so now you can use it on all local bus services.

[staunchhibby]

West lothian council stopped cheap rail travel and are now closing leisure centres.

[McD]

West lothian council stopped cheap rail travel and are now closing leisure centres.


strictly speaking, it’s West Lothian Leisure who are closing the pools/leisure centres.

the council told them their direct funding would be phased out over a few years, starting in 2024. It doesn’t seem like WLL have done a lot of searching for alternative funding, or are willing to use the time remaining before the funding begins to decrease to continue looking.

that’s not to let the council off the hook, given they’ve closed libraries, restricted dump opening times and (planning to?) charge anyone who wishes to use them, and the roads are a state

[cabbageandribs1875]

strictly speaking, it’s West Lothian Leisure who are closing the pools/leisure centres.

the council told them their direct funding would be phased out over a few years, starting in 2024. It doesn’t seem like WLL have done a lot of searching for alternative funding, or are willing to use the time remaining before the funding begins to decrease to continue looking.

that’s not to let the council off the hook, given they’ve closed libraries, restricted dump opening times and (planning to?) charge anyone who wishes to use them, and the roads are a state


supervisor at Blackburn recycling told me yesterday the council were starting a booking system in September, the staff aren't too happy about it either

i've forgotten already but i think he said Blackburn dump would be tues/thurs and sat 10am-2pm....or something like that, he did tell me Oakbank/Broxburn/Whitburn days but i'd forgotten by the time i left the dump :(

[Smartie]

I've been thinking about moving out to West Lothian, what with our second child on the way in August. My 2 bedroom flat in Leith isn't really big enough any more but I don't have the £££ for more.

It's a bit of a concern that the council are having to make such cuts to services. I'd have thought that with the houses being built in the area that there would be an increase in tax revenues, allowing for services to be - if not improved - then at least maintained, or only cut slightly? It sounds like the cuts are fairly hefty?

Makes me think twice about moving to the area.

And yes, I know, everything is getting more expensive and it's more difficult than ever to provide services, but still...

[Ozyhibby]

I've been thinking about moving out to West Lothian, what with our second child on the way in August. My 2 bedroom flat in Leith isn't really big enough any more but I don't have the £££ for more.

It's a bit of a concern that the council are having to make such cuts to services. I'd have thought that with the houses being built in the area that there would be an increase in tax revenues, allowing for services to be - if not improved - then at least maintained, or only cut slightly? It sounds like the cuts are fairly hefty?

Makes me think twice about moving to the area.

And yes, I know, everything is getting more expensive and it's more difficult than ever to provide services, but still...

The way local authorities are funded is ridiculous. Council tax only covers about a 1/4 of what they need.
The devolution that’s needed for the SG is also needed at local level as well. It’s all tied in though and you can’t have one without the other.


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[Since90+2]

supervisor at Blackburn recycling told me yesterday the council were starting a booking system in September, the staff aren't too happy about it either

i've forgotten already but i think he said Blackburn dump would be tues/thurs and sat 10am-2pm....or something like that, he did tell me Oakbank/Broxburn/Whitburn days but i'd forgotten by the time i left the dump :(

Edinburgh has been doing a booking system for a few years now for the tips.

[overdrive]

Edinburgh has been doing a booking system for a few years now for the tips.

I think it works well. I’ve never had an issue getting a booking when I want. They are really quick at checking your registration against the booking too.

[archie]

I think it works well. I’ve never had an issue getting a booking when I want. They are really quick at checking your registration against the booking too.

Never had an issue either. The checking is pretty low key these days too, just a quick swatch at the car numberplate.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230714/2dc49cb4a908fa75fa5d7b60be84bcc6.jpg

I just came across this pic on Twitter. I bet there was a fair bit of people against getting rid of this road but I def think it was worth it and I bet traders on that street do too and are still managing to get deliveries etc.


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[greenginger]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230714/2dc49cb4a908fa75fa5d7b60be84bcc6.jpg

I just came across this pic on Twitter. I bet there was a fair bit of people against getting rid of this road but I def think it was worth it and I bet traders on that street do too and are still managing to get deliveries etc.


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I don’t think they got rid of the road. Looking on google map the road goes into a tunnel under a large stretch of the river frontage.

Great improvement but the roads still there.

[Jack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230714/2dc49cb4a908fa75fa5d7b60be84bcc6.jpg

I just came across this pic on Twitter. I bet there was a fair bit of people against getting rid of this road but I def think it was worth it and I bet traders on that street do too and are still managing to get deliveries etc.


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Even if there is a road there, as Greenginger suggests, it's not really similar to what our council has done or wants to do.

CEC seem intent on closing, blocking, restricting streets around the city in a way that's pretty random and in some places plain weird.

They're making pedestrian only streets where very few pedestrians ever walked. Road layouts (foot of Easter Road an example) where larger vehicles, like buses, have to encroach onto the other side of the road to turn, go over the kerbs or both!

On the roads all these displaced vehicles are forced onto no account appears to have been made for increased traffic from a 'new' direction meaning hellish hold ups at traffic lights all over the place even at quiet times. It makes claims of reduced emissions a choke, sorry joke!

Too few turns left if you go up Leith Walk. The lights at the end of Albert Street are still functioning as if its open - its been fully closed for over a year for drain repairs.

In common with other controlled parking around the city the council are marking fewer spaces than they issue permits for in the new areas around Leith. On top of that the number of spaces themselves don't make best use of the road that's available.

So even where the council could do something to help the driver its seems there's no appetite.

Anyway what they've done in that picture is fabulous. The chances of CEC doing anything remotely as ambitious when all their planning departments approve is big glass box office blocks seems remote.

[Ozyhibby]

Even if there is a road there, as Greenginger suggests, it's not really similar to what our council has done or wants to do.

CEC seem intent on closing, blocking, restricting streets around the city in a way that's pretty random and in some places plain weird.

They're making pedestrian only streets where very few pedestrians ever walked. Road layouts (foot of Easter Road an example) where larger vehicles, like buses, have to encroach onto the other side of the road to turn, go over the kerbs or both!

On the roads all these displaced vehicles are forced onto no account appears to have been made for increased traffic from a 'new' direction meaning hellish hold ups at traffic lights all over the place even at quiet times. It makes claims of reduced emissions a choke, sorry joke!

Too few turns left if you go up Leith Walk. The lights at the end of Albert Street are still functioning as if its open - its been fully closed for over a year for drain repairs.

In common with other controlled parking around the city the council are marking fewer spaces than they issue permits for in the new areas around Leith. On top of that the number of spaces themselves don't make best use of the road that's available.

So even where the council could do something to help the driver its seems there's no appetite.

Anyway what they've done in that picture is fabulous. The chances of CEC doing anything remotely as ambitious when all their planning departments approve is big glass box office blocks seems remote.

Enough to make you want to give up your car.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Get a bike , can get a trailer to carry most things or pannier bag, feel fitter, easy to park anywhere with a decent lock, costs basically nothing after its bought, electric can make the hills seem flat.

[Jack]

Enough to make you want to give up your car.


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I did. About 12 years or more ago! I did have limited use of a van up till late last year but now it's 100% public transport.

It's a PITA for the shopping and very much limits getting to metal detecting rallies but apart from that no big deal.

[Pretty Boy]

I've started to look at the part of my Google timeline on my phone that details they way I have traveled (quite scary how it can do that, I'm sure I can turn it off if I really wanted to).

I'm quite surprised how little I actually use my car. Last month I travelled 178 miles walking, 110 miles on public transport, 120 running and only 62 in my car. I'm not sure of just how accurate it is but the only time I really use my car as a single occupant is to do my weekly shop (which I really wouldn't fancy doing by bus or on a bike) and one day a week to work. The other times are just ferrying the kids about to various clubs and activities or for long journeys. I probably could give it up and just hire a car when I really needed it and public transport wasn't an option. A big step but something to consider.

[Since90+2]

Get a bike , can get a trailer to carry most things or pannier bag, feel fitter, easy to park anywhere with a decent lock, costs basically nothing after its bought, electric can make the hills seem flat.

Not exactly wonderful for getting the kids around town though.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've started to look at the part of my Google timeline on my phone that details they way I have traveled (quite scary how it can do that, I'm sure I can turn it off if I really wanted to).

I'm quite surprised how little I actually use my car. Last month I travelled 178 miles walking, 110 miles on public transport, 120 running and only 62 in my car. I'm not sure of just how accurate it is but the only time I really use my car as a single occupant is to do my weekly shop (which I really wouldn't fancy doing by bus or on a bike) and one day a week to work. The other times are just ferrying the kids about to various clubs and activities or for long journeys. I probably could give it up and just hire a car when I really needed it and public transport wasn't an option. A big step but something to consider.

Could you use the car club in Edinburgh? Seems to be a good idea but I don't know much about it.

[Pretty Boy]

Could you use the car club in Edinburgh? Seems to be a good idea but I don't know much about it.

Aye probably worth exploring as well.

More than anything I think a car is just a bit of a habit for me rather than a real necessity.

[Hibs4185]

Could you use the car club in Edinburgh? Seems to be a good idea but I don't know much about it.

Registered my mum for this but she’s only used it once.

It’s ok, works out about £10 per hour and the car’s are pretty good.

She wanted it for the shops and heavy items but she needs it for more than an hour but less than two, so she can’t justify £20 for it.

She just gets a bus to the shops and a taxi home which is about £8.

[greenginger]

Enough to make you want to give up your car.


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or replace our Councillors.

[Mon Dieu4]

Not sure if this is really the thread for it but the Trams and Parking restrictions are causing carnage where I live, when people bought their houses they had parking spaces included, they are clearly shown and defined on their Title Deeds, over the years the council have adopted a couple of the roads but not all(not mine) my neighbours who had their road adopted have been told they will have to pay for a permit even though they 100% own their parking space

The council are blaming Taylor Wimpy who are saying it's nothing to do with them and that they do own their own spaces, Lawyers all involved and one councillor saying one thing and another saying something completely different

This has all been going on since before COVID but the guys are down doing the double yellows as we speak and it's still all up in the air, they really don't have a ****ing clue

[overdrive]

or replace our Councillors.

The thing with that is all of Labour, SNP, Lib Dems and Tory have all had some degree of power in recent memory and it all seems to be much of a muchness in terms of these sorts of policies. It would take a whole load of independent candidates with similar policies to be elected (difficult) or a new party to be formed to actually do anything about it assuming that Labour, SNP and the Lib Dems don't abruptly change tact. I left the Tories out of that as there's no way they are getting in regardless (I think they are against a lot of these policies).

Edit: I actually recently resigned my membership of the Labour Party because of how the are acting at Council level. I'll still vote for them at Holyrood and Westminster but I think I will be spoiling my paper at the council elections.

[overdrive]

Not sure if this is really the thread for it but the Trams and Parking restrictions are causing carnage where I live, when people bought their houses they had parking spaces included, they are clearly shown and defined on their Title Deeds, over the years the council have adopted a couple of the roads but not all(not mine) my neighbours who had their road adopted have been told they will have to pay for a permit even though they 100% own their parking space

The council are blaming Taylor Wimpy who are saying it's nothing to do with them and that they do own their own spaces, Lawyers all involved and one councillor saying one thing and another saying something completely different

This has all been going on since before COVID but the guys are down doing the double yellows as we speak and it's still all up in the air, they really don't have a ****ing clue

The Council tried to adopt the car park in my old development but the residents association resisted it for this very reason.

[Mon Dieu4]

The Council tried to adopt the car park in my old development but the residents association resisted it for this very reason.

To the best of my knowledge no one even knew it had been adopted by them until this all kicked off!

[Ozyhibby]

The thing with that is all of Labour, SNP, Lib Dems and Tory have all had some degree of power in recent memory and it all seems to be much of a muchness in terms of these sorts of policies. It would take a whole load of independent candidates with similar policies to be elected (difficult) or a new party to be formed to actually do anything about it assuming that Labour, SNP and the Lib Dems don't abruptly change tact. I left the Tories out of that as there's no way they are getting in regardless (I think they are against a lot of these policies).

Edit: I actually recently resigned my membership of the Labour Party because of how the are acting at Council level. I'll still vote for them at Holyrood and Westminster but I think I will be spoiling my paper at the council elections.

Is it possible a majority of people in the city are broadly supportive of measure to reduce car numbers in the city?


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[Since90+2]

Is it possible a majority of people in the city are broadly supportive of measure to reduce car numbers in the city?


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I think they had a response rate of 89% against the measures coming into place.

And I don't think you can use the measure of city wide.

If you live in Cramond and are unaffected you are far more likely to say you'd like to see reduce car usage, someone living in Leith who is directly impacted probably less so.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not exactly wonderful for getting the kids around town though.

Mrs has a trailer and electric bike says it's easy and everyone gives you loads of space. She's got an SUV too so hardly green, although we hardly use motors, takes half the time by bike. Although granted its easier as we live near the city centre, defo be harder out of the centre.

Edinburgh centre is easy to walk and cycle in.

Going to buy one electric car and get rid of the two cars, I'm wanting smaller, she's wanting big for the once a year we go to a festival or something or other. She'll probably win

[Jack]

Not sure if this is really the thread for it but the Trams and Parking restrictions are causing carnage where I live, when people bought their houses they had parking spaces included, they are clearly shown and defined on their Title Deeds, over the years the council have adopted a couple of the roads but not all(not mine) my neighbours who had their road adopted have been told they will have to pay for a permit even though they 100% own their parking space

The council are blaming Taylor Wimpy who are saying it's nothing to do with them and that they do own their own spaces, Lawyers all involved and one councillor saying one thing and another saying something completely different

This has all been going on since before COVID but the guys are down doing the double yellows as we speak and it's still all up in the air, they really don't have a ****ing clue

I saw this in the media recently. I just can't understand how the council can think that they adopted the road, that's OK, and also the private parking spaces included the flat owners title deeds. It's like they've just stolen that wee bit of land.

No idea how to fix it but good luck.

[greenginger]

I saw this in the media recently. I just can't understand how the council can think that they adopted the road, that's OK, and also the private parking spaces included the flat owners title deeds. It's like they've just stolen that wee bit of land.

No idea how to fix it but good luck.

It’s a bit like parking up in Weege to go to match and some wee toerag wants to mind your car for a couple of quid.

The council want you to pay to park on your own space or it costs you a lot more than a couple of quid

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/francesca_kms/status/1682071130750812160?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I noticed this when I was down there a few weeks back. They are ahead of us in getting people onto bikes.


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[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/francesca_kms/status/1682071130750812160?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I noticed this when I was down there a few weeks back. They are ahead of us in getting people onto bikes.



Johnson got one call right.

[Smartie]

https://twitter.com/francesca_kms/status/1682071130750812160?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I noticed this when I was down there a few weeks back. They are ahead of us in getting people onto bikes.


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They are, although it's not like nothing is being done about it up here. The streets around my work have been dug up for weeks / months as they work on upgrading the cycle routes in the city. It's been ridiculous expecting cars, trams, bikes and pedestrians to be sharing the same routes so I'd expect to see a greater number of people using bikes once that's properly up and running.

[gbhibby]

Not sure if this is really the thread for it but the Trams and Parking restrictions are causing carnage where I live, when people bought their houses they had parking spaces included, they are clearly shown and defined on their Title Deeds, over the years the council have adopted a couple of the roads but not all(not mine) my neighbours who had their road adopted have been told they will have to pay for a permit even though they 100% own their parking space

The council are blaming Taylor Wimpy who are saying it's nothing to do with them and that they do own their own spaces, Lawyers all involved and one councillor saying one thing and another saying something completely different

This has all been going on since before COVID but the guys are down doing the double yellows as we speak and it's still all up in the air, they really don't have a ****ing clue
Get hold of your title deeds this shows what is included in the purchase of your property copy the page and anything referring to this in your deeds and conditions
You can the ask for the Land registry to get involved and adjudicate. Would have thought they cannot charge you for parking on your own land.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/1685394528709038081?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Tories want to stop cities moving away from car use.


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[greenginger]

https://twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/1685394528709038081?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Tories want to stop cities moving away from car use.


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It could be read as Labour only want the rich who can afford new cars to be able to drive.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jonburkeuk/status/1685576094907277312?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread on the benefits of LTN’s.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/adambronkhorst/status/1684934468203585536?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jonburkeuk/status/1686651784268242945?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Always a nation of cyclists?


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[Jack]

https://twitter.com/jonburkeuk/status/1686651784268242945?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Always a nation of cyclists?


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Well they weren't during the war because the Nazis stole all their bikes and the Dutch have still not forgiven them!

They may not have always been a nation of cyclists but its always been popular - well at least since the invention of the bike 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/jonburkeuk/status/1686651784268242945?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Always a nation of cyclists?


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Article about Ulez and ltn's. Holland changed in part away from cars to cycling in the 70s, due to kids deaths. In 1971 over 400 kids were killed in accidents it was 21 last year a parents group Stop de Kindermoord (stop the child murder) pushed government

https://archive.ph/XNFR5

[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/jonburkeuk/status/1686651784268242945?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Always a nation of cyclists?


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Even if cycling isn't part of our culture and driving a car is then I would argue it's irrelevant, culture and habits can be changed and government policy can shape that. I think your link proves that. 'It's not part of our culture' is just an excuse and an aversion to change or possibly even being too lazy to want to change.

I was 19 before they banned smoking in pubs, it was part of our culture and there were predictions of anarchy with thousands of pubs ignoring the laws. It didn't happen. Fast forward almost 20 years and a 19 year old now would find the idea of smoking in a pub or other public places bizarre. I can vaguely remember my dad smoking on a flight in the very early 90s FFS. There are loads of other examples; a couple of pints then driving home, teachers assaulting children, dog owners leaving ***** on the street etc etc. These were all normalised behaviours in the UK and elsewhere and legislation means they now aren't.

It would be nice if 20 years from now a 19 year old would find the idea that a healthy able bodied person would drive a car a distance that they could cover on foot in 20 minutes as bizarre as I find the idea that a teacher could batter a bairn with a piece of leather. I'm not too hopeful sadly.

[lapsedhibee]

Even if cycling isn't part of our culture and driving a car is then I would argue it's irrelevant, culture and habits can be changed and government policy can shape that. I think your link proves that. 'It's not part of our culture' is just an excuse and an aversion to change or possibly even being too lazy to want to change.

I was 19 before they banned smoking in pubs, it was part of our culture and there were predictions of anarchy with thousands of pubs ignoring the laws. It didn't happen. Fast forward almost 20 years and a 19 year old now would find the idea of smoking in a pub or other public places bizarre. I can vaguely remember my dad smoking on a flight in the very early 90s FFS. There are loads of other examples; a couple of pints then driving home, teachers assaulting children, dog owners leaving ***** on the street etc etc. These were all normalised behaviours in the UK and elsewhere and legislation means they now aren't.

It would be nice if 20 years from now a 19 year old would find the idea that a healthy able bodied person would drive a car a distance that they could cover on foot in 20 minutes as bizarre as I find the idea that a teacher could batter a bairn with a piece of leather. I'm not too hopeful sadly.

All the advances you mention were opposed at the time, but the difference now is that clowns like Farage and Mogg adopt good ideas and turn them into culture war issues, which the media amplifies. This didn't used to happen. UK now seems a much stupider place than when seat belts were introduced.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/think_or_swim/status/1687785577754537984?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/think_or_swim/status/1687785577754537984?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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If it wasn't August that pic would be full of cars tour buses and taxis at the bottom. We only pedestrianise and give nice walking streets for the tourist in August.

[J-C]

https://twitter.com/think_or_swim/status/1687785577754537984?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Castlehill is closed permanently at the bottom this time of year and Johnson T/Lawnmarket has been made a one way street for the month of August, this is because of the amount of people in the area.

[Billy Whizz]

Think the trams are going 24 hours in August.

[overdrive]

Think the trams are going 24 hours in August.

Only at weekends

[Pretty Boy]

Castlehill is closed permanently at the bottom this time of year and Johnson T/Lawnmarket has been made a one way street for the month of August, this is because of the amount of people in the area.

Not that it really matters but Castlehill does allow limited traffic up before 8.30am for deliveries. My work deliver to 2 businesses up there and the drivers hate it because it messes their usual routes up. One of them missed the cut off by about a minute last year and had to barrow 2 pallet loads up the pavement. Let's just say he wasn't too chuffed.

[Billy Whizz]

Only at weekends

Is it ok? Loads of flights come into Edinburgh early morning 1/2am throughout the year. Think the latest airport departure is around 11.30pm normally

[Callum_62]

It could be read as Labour only want the rich who can afford new cars to be able to drive.New cars? You think ulez compatibility relates to new cars?

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[greenginger]

New cars? You think ulez compatibility relates to new cars?

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pre 2017 diesel and pre 2006 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car

* sorry misprint on my pesky phone.

[Ozyhibby]

pre 2017 diesel and pre 2017 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car

Not in Edinburgh?


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[J-C]

pre 2017 diesel and pre 2017 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car


Someone told me there's a glitch on the Gov website when you put your reg in, it's seemingly allowing nearly all cars, I put my O2 VW golf reg in and it says it's ok for the LEZ scheme in Scotland

[grunt]

pre 2017 diesel and pre 2017 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car
Not according to the ULEZ vehicle checkers for London and Scotland.

[Alfiembra]

pre 2017 diesel and pre 2017 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car

it would seem it’s only Euro 5 cars that are non compliant so basically between 2007 and 2015 older Euro 4 are ok.
Guess who’s got a 2014 non compliant car.

[Moulin Yarns]

pre 2017 diesel and pre 2017 petrol don’t comply , yes you need a newish car

Shows how much you (don't) know

[J-C]

it would seem it’s only Euro 5 cars that are non compliant so basically between 2007 and 2015 older Euro 4 are ok.
Guess who’s got a 2014 non compliant car.

I just put my O2 Golf reg into the Gov site and it says its fine to drive in LEZ areas?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66512629?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_id=C14B6A8E-3B74-11EE-BA5F-8DDC5B3BE886&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66512629?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_id=C14B6A8E-3B74-11EE-BA5F-8DDC5B3BE886&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial


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10% of the vehicles entering the zone effected seems insane, do people not realise they are effected

[Ozyhibby]

10% of the vehicles entering the zone effected seems insane, do people not realise they are effected

I imagine that some people are learning the hard way. After a couple of months though people will change their behaviour and that’s what we want.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Infrastructure projects in the UK are the dearest in the world. Why NIMBYs just like half of our problems. Consultations, debates, redraws. A good thread today and an article saying similar

https://twitter.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1694990887439233239

https://archive.ph/uGFtJ

[Kato]

Infrastructure projects in the UK are the dearest in the world. Why NIMBYs just like half of our problems. Consultations, debates, redraws. A good thread today and an article saying similar

https://twitter.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1694990887439233239

https://archive.ph/uGFtJAny large uk infrastructure project sees leeches like quangos and "consultants" latching and holding on for dear life until they have sucked as much cash from it as possible with little or no actual contribution to the project.

Its how things have came to be arranged here to allow useless people make a profit.

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[Ozyhibby]

Any large uk infrastructure project sees leeches like quangos and "consultants" latching and holding on for dear life until they have sucked as much cash from it as possible with little or no actual contribution to the project.

Its how things have came to be arranged here to allow useless people make a profit.

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Planning system in the UK has to be the most expensive in the world. Reform that and you could improve the nations fortunes tenfold.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230825/8a164f1ff508035bc85242facc0dc2b8.jpg

https://x.com/carsruinedcity/status/1695137693624307776?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Story in the thread
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[cabbageandribs1875]

next round of parking restrictions/permits etc etc in the offing, should maybe be on another thread



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369590479_10161261375676085_3098554890522033902_n. jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Xw1Z0CIbSK0AX8D0iSt&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCmg2NB954Mi7bAY3fCiKmeQv6r-qIqJ9hzNn9_kzwgWA&oe=64EF81B0

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/michaeldnes1/status/1696053199042723897?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread on why it takes us forever to build things in this country.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/wetherspoons-forced-to-close-after-damage-caused-during-edinburgh-tramline-works

Another benefit of the tram extension. 😁

[hibee]

Plans announced to discuss further extensions now.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13908/recommended-route-for-granton-to-bioquarter-tram

[Ozyhibby]

Plans announced to discuss further extensions now.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13908/recommended-route-for-granton-to-bioquarter-tram

Good news.[emoji106]


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[J-C]

Plans announced to discuss further extensions now.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13908/recommended-route-for-granton-to-bioquarter-tram

Enjoy months and years of chaos as this council spend even more money on this bloody vanity project, Edinburgh will be one huge traffic jam soon.

[Kato]

Enjoy months and years of chaos as this council spend even more money on this bloody vanity project, Edinburgh will be one huge traffic jam soon.Is this a post from 2006?

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[Just Alf]

Enjoy months and years of chaos as this council spend even more money on this bloody vanity project, Edinburgh will be one huge traffic jam soon.See the congestion charges thread.
Council is closing the proposed tram route to traffic anyway.

Then when they do start the tram works we can't blame that for the traffic issues lol

[BS44]

BBC News - Edinburgh trams and the mystery of the crumbling tenement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68109162

Has the tram construction at Newhaven caused this building to be so unsafe that residents have been told to move out and businesses closed?

[Jack]

BBC News - Edinburgh trams and the mystery of the crumbling tenement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68109162

Has the tram construction at Newhaven caused this building to be so unsafe that residents have been told to move out and businesses closed?

The jury is out as to the cause.

Why did the cracks only start appearing a couple of months ago and have so quickly become so bad that the building needs evacuated now?

Another rumour doing the rounds is of a DIY project in one of the first floor flats where an I beam was removed!

[Ozyhibby]

BBC News - Edinburgh trams and the mystery of the crumbling tenement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-68109162

Has the tram construction at Newhaven caused this building to be so unsafe that residents have been told to move out and businesses closed?

Given how far away the tram line is from the building I would be shocked if it was connected.


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[Pretty Boy]

I'm broadly supportive of extending the trams but losing the Roseburn Path in close to it's entirety is a big price to pay. It's a well used cycle commute route and also popular with pedestrians, dog walkers and so on. I'm not sure removing one of the cities most used cycle and walking routes is progress.

It also flies in the face of the councils own travel pyramid which places pedestrians and cyclists at the top.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm broadly supportive of extending the trams but losing the Roseburn Path in close to it's entirety is a big price to pay. It's a well used cycle commute route and also popular with pedestrians, dog walkers and so on. I'm not sure removing one of the cities most used cycle and walking routes is progress.

It also flies in the face of the councils own travel pyramid which places pedestrians and cyclists at the top.

Can they not fit the cycle lane in beside it?


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[overdrive]

Can they not fit the cycle lane in beside it?


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They are keeping a walking route next to it and “discouraging” cyclists. Don’t know how you can discourage cyclists without outright banning them.

[Pretty Boy]

Can they not fit the cycle lane in beside it?


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The plans seems to suggest a 'walking route' but there will be a loss of a sizeable area of green space. As far as I can see there is no preservation of a dedicated cycle path on that route and indeed there is mention of cycling being 'discouraged'. Whatever the **** that means.

I get that expansion of public transport is important and it's not complaining for the sake of complaining but adequate space for active commuting and active recreation is important too.

[overdrive]

The plans seems to suggest a 'walking route' but there will be a loss of a sizeable area of green space. As far as I can see there is no preservation of a dedicated cycle path on that route and indeed there is mention of cycling being 'discouraged'. Whatever the **** that means.

I get that expansion of public transport is important and it's not complaining for the sake of complaining but adequate space for active commuting and active recreation is important too.

The suggestion seems to be cycle lanes on the roads near the route

[Pretty Boy]

To add I don't believe the waffle about 'adequate provision for high quality 24/7 on road cycling provision'.

It took Edinburgh Council, under the control of various different parties, 9 years to provide less than a km of protected cycle provision between the Meadows and the Union Canal. You only have to look at the current farcical 'cycling infrastructure' to see how this will all go. A few lines on the road with priority still largely given over to private motorised transport.

[superfurryhibby]

No more trams please. There are other far more pressing things for the Council to spend our money on.

[Scouse Hibee]

The tram extension has opened up a whole new party of the city for me. Since it opened the shore pubs and restaurants have become regular venues to visit.

[Pretty Boy]

The tram extension has opened up a whole new party of the city for me. Since it opened the shore pubs and restaurants have become regular venues to visit.

The tram is brilliant which is why I don't like moaning about the new proposed route.

I've recently moved to Sighthill with work which does necessitate taking the car more often (soon to be replaced by a bike). However on days when I don't need the car I take a wander down to Edinburgh Park and will check both the tram and train times and just jump on whatever is due first. Into the city centre in between 8 and 15 minutes for £2 or £3 is brilliant.

I've always argued Edinburgh is already behind the curve on mass transit when you look at the rate the city is growing. Not falling further behind is crucial. I've always had a train route available into town from home and now seeing the benefits of the tram it's so much better than relying solely on the bus. It takes me almost an hour on a bus from home to work, going by train or by train and tram cuts that to about 25 minutes including connection time. That's invaluable.

[Jack]

No more trams please. There are other far more pressing things for the Council to spend our money on.

Is it actually council money that pays for the tram infrastructure?

I thought it was mostly capital monies from the Scottish Government which in turn comes from the UK government.

I appreciate its still 'our' money but it's only because the trams are being built that the money becomes available. Or to put it another way the money wouldn't be there to spend by the council on other stuff.

[Ozyhibby]

Is it actually council money that pays for the tram infrastructure?

I thought it was mostly capital monies from the Scottish Government which in turn comes from the UK government.

I appreciate its still 'our' money but it's only because the trams are being built that the money becomes available. Or to put it another way the money wouldn't be there to spend by the council on other stuff.

Not to mention the economic growth that can come from having efficient mass transit systems.


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[Hibs4185]

As long as it never goes along Gorgie! That part of town deserves to be left in the lurches 🤣

[Hibs4185]

Is it actually council money that pays for the tram infrastructure?

I thought it was mostly capital monies from the Scottish Government which in turn comes from the UK government.

I appreciate its still 'our' money but it's only because the trams are being built that the money becomes available. Or to put it another way the money wouldn't be there to spend by the council on other stuff.

A lot of it is financed from developers paying contributions, which is why there was a story years ago that it was going to cost more to cancel the trams than finish them. Basically the council would’ve had to refund £400 million of section 75 contributions paid by developers along the tram line.

Anything built within a certain distance of it, has to pay a contribution.

Also in the borders, developers pay Waverley contributions towards the borders railway.

There is also contributions to education as more houses places extra demands on the school system

[Jack]

A lot of it is financed from developers paying contributions, which is why there was a story years ago that it was going to cost more to cancel the trams than finish them. Basically the council would’ve had to refund £400 million of section 75 contributions paid by developers along the tram line.

Anything built within a certain distance of it, has to pay a contribution.

Also in the borders, developers pay Waverley contributions towards the borders railway.

There is also contributions to education as more houses places extra demands on the school system

Thanks for that, I remember it now.

That would have reduced the amount from the public purse.

[Stairway 2 7]

See they are looking at putting a cycle path next to the tram now, probably due to the cycling lobby. There was going to be a 3 metre path next to tram but cycling was to be discouraged. Everyone would have cycled as they do on the 3 metre path next to the tram at Balgreen just now

[Ozyhibby]

See they are looking at putting a cycle path next to the tram now, probably due to the cycling lobby. There was going to be a 3 metre path next to tram but cycling was to be discouraged. Everyone would have cycled as they do on the 3 metre path next to the tram at Balgreen just now

Great news. It will also make the cycle path feel safer at night with regular trams going past.


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[Itsnoteasy]

The tram extension has opened up a whole new party of the city for me. Since it opened the shore pubs and restaurants have become regular venues to visit.

I'm guessing you didnae ken that LRT buses have been going there for decades.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm guessing you didnae ken that LRT buses have been going there for decades.

If you're going from Princes Street it takes almost 10 minutes off the journey. They are also barry if you've got a buggy and presume disabled as you roll right on and plenty spaces, unlike busses where you usually get baby out and fold up pram.

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm guessing you didnae ken that LRT buses have been going there for decades.

I’m guessing you already know the answer to that.
To confirm though, the starting point for buses to the shore are not local to me, the tram is and the convenience of a tram directly to the shore has opened up a whole new experience for me. Hope that helps 👍

[Callum_62]

Finally dragging edinburgh into the 21st century

I know it's A heap of upheaval but a city with a functioning mass transit system really makes a world of difference

We are just back from Basel and the tram system there was absolutely fantastic - making all areas of the city accessible

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