Housing

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67006468?at_medium=social&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_link_id=72D97014-637C-11EE-9218-7E1ED99D5CC3&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned


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[Hibs4185]

Some landlords are richer than others.


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I’m not remotely rich, it pays the mortgage and covers any maintenance that’s about it.

[superfurryhibby]

Im a landlord and just reduced my tenants rent by £200 for the next 6 months because he’s had a bit of a setback and he has a new baby on the way. He already pays below market rent for it.

There are good landlords out there!

'Mon the good landlords, sounds very decent of you.

[Hibs4185]

'Mon the good landlords, sounds very decent of you.

Makes up for the black mould, leaking ceilings and no hot water!

Joking

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67018446?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=D8E03C3A-6633-11EE-9EE2-7859681DE14E&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter

Rent cap working a treat. [emoji849]
It’s not the only issue unfortunately. The UK govt have been forcing landlords out the industry for a decade now. This is the results you get.


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[Ozyhibby]

BBC 1 just now


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[Ozyhibby]

BBC 1 just now


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And BBC 2 just now has another show about the failure of the property market.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001rkmp/britains-housing-crisis-what-went-wrong-series-1-episode-1

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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edinburgh-council-to-declare-housing-emergency-due-to-homelessness-crisis

Edinburgh declaring a housing emergency.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/edinburgh-council-to-declare-housing-emergency-due-to-homelessness-crisis

Edinburgh declaring a housing emergency.


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We need to build high quality apartments imo not 4 bed semi detached. Build up and further out. It's a disaster in Edinburgh. The biggest issue facing many in Edinburgh, prices up 15%

[Ozyhibby]

We need to build high quality apartments imo not 4 bed semi detached. Build up and further out. It's a disaster in Edinburgh. The biggest issue facing many in Edinburgh, prices up 15%

We need a bit of everything but I agree that more dense housing, especially near the centre of Edinburgh is needed. Most developments have a proportion of flats as you enter the development.
People still want gardens when they have a family and there is no shortage of space. We have enough land. It’s political will that is lacking.


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[Stairway 2 7]

We need a bit of everything but I agree that more dense housing, especially near the centre of Edinburgh is needed. Most developments have a proportion of flats as you enter the development.
People still want gardens when they have a family and there is no shortage of space. We have enough land. It’s political will that is lacking.


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You might like this simply for it being one of the worst things written on housing. It's went viral for being hilariously bad, it is the Torygraph after all. She says we don't need new houses the problem is houses are too expensive ehhh...

UK also has the second lowest number of unused housing stock, under 2% Iceland is only lower and average is 10%.

She'll be glad she's blocked since many homes and I'm not surprised someone has found she owns a £3.5 million pound home

https://archive.ph/IZiTg

[greenginger]

You might like this simply for it being one of the worst things written on housing. It's went viral for being hilariously bad, it is the Torygraph after all. She says we don't need new houses the problem is houses are too expensive ehhh...

UK also has the second lowest number of unused housing stock, under 2% Iceland is only lower and average is 10%.

She'll be glad she's blocked since many homes and I'm not surprised someone has found she owns a £3.5 million pound home

https://archive.ph/IZiTg


According to Shelter there are over a quarter of a million long term empty homes in England.

There are 43,000 empty homes in Scotland.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-empty-homes-are-there-in-the-uk/

[Ozyhibby]

According to Shelter there are over a quarter of a million long term empty homes in England.

There are 43,000 empty homes in Scotland.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-empty-homes-are-there-in-the-uk/

I would treble the council tax on empty homes after 6 months. And I would bring in a tourist tax for short term lets.


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[Ozyhibby]

You might like this simply for it being one of the worst things written on housing. It's went viral for being hilariously bad, it is the Torygraph after all. She says we don't need new houses the problem is houses are too expensive ehhh...

UK also has the second lowest number of unused housing stock, under 2% Iceland is only lower and average is 10%.

She'll be glad she's blocked since many homes and I'm not surprised someone has found she owns a £3.5 million pound home

https://archive.ph/IZiTg

Imagine you passion in life was stopping houses getting built.[emoji2369]


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[danhibees1875]

We need a bit of everything but I agree that more dense housing, especially near the centre of Edinburgh is needed. Most developments have a proportion of flats as you enter the development.
People still want gardens when they have a family and there is no shortage of space. We have enough land. It’s political will that is lacking.


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I'm certainly no expert, but from what I see spacious family homes are being built at a significant rate around Edinburgh already. Anecdotally a little slower right now because the market is so stagnant and so builders presumably aren't throwing up houses as quickly as they can when people aren't as quick to buy them with interest rates as high as they are.

But in terms of continuously growing developments/areas: Cammo, Queensferry, Wallyford, The wisp, Shawfair, Calderwood, Kirkliston, Winchburgh all seem to have sprung up with hundreds/thousands of new family homes.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I see spacious family homes are being built at a significant rate around Edinburgh already. Anecdotally a little slower right now because the market is so stagnant and so builders presumably aren't throwing up houses as quickly as they can when people aren't as quick to buy them with interest rates as high as they are.

But in terms of continuously growing developments/areas: Cammo, Queensferry, Wallyford, The wisp, Shawfair, Calderwood, Kirkliston, Winchburgh all seem to have sprung up with hundreds/thousands of new family homes.

I think that there are some positive things happening, we just need more.
To speed builders up, I would start taxing the properties from 18 months after planning is granted.
If they are not ready to build after planning is granted then they should be required to sell the land on.


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[Stairway 2 7]

According to Shelter there are over a quarter of a million long term empty homes in England.

There are 43,000 empty homes in Scotland.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-empty-homes-are-there-in-the-uk/

30 mill homes so that's closer to 1%. Germany, Ireland, France and Holland have around 8%. That would mean millions of vacant homes, slashed prices and no housing problem.

With half a million net immigrants in the next few years and a fraction of that in homes being built. We'll soon have zero available homes. It's a disaster

[danhibees1875]

I think that there are some positive things happening, we just need more.
To speed builders up, I would start taxing the properties from 18 months after planning is granted.
If they are not ready to build after planning is granted then they should be required to sell the land on.


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I'm looking to move to a new development that won't be finished for c.3 years. Planning was probably approved some time ago too I would imagine. I think Developments do, and always will, take longer than 18 months from planning to completion just through normal process.

I guess they could just create admin by applying for permission to build 100 smaller developments and spread out their applications over several years. :greengrin

[greenginger]

I'm looking to move to a new development that won't be finished for c.3 years. Planning was probably approved some time ago too I would imagine. I think Developments do, and always will, take longer than 18 months from planning to completion just through normal process.

I guess they could just create admin by applying for permission to build 100 smaller developments and spread out their applications over several years. :greengrin

Often developments are held up waiting for power , drainage being supplied to sites.
or schools, medical etc services being made available.

It’s not always the developers who delay developments

[danhibees1875]

Often developments are held up waiting for power , drainage being supplied to sites.
or schools, medical etc services being made available.

It’s not always the developers who delay developments

I'm sure that's true also. :agree:

It just seems like fundamentally, you're not going to have 100 houses built in such a short time. Even if you did, you'd then struggle to sell them all so quickly.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure that's true also. :agree:

It just seems like fundamentally, you're not going to have 100 houses built in such a short time. Even if you did, you'd then struggle to sell them all so quickly.

Struggle to sell houses?[emoji102]
Seriously though, whatever the reasons, we are building too slowly and it needs to change.


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[danhibees1875]

Struggle to sell houses?[emoji102]
Seriously though, whatever the reasons, we are building too slowly and it needs to change.


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Yes. Houses are moving relatively slowly at the moment.

[hibee]

Yes. Houses are moving relatively slowly at the moment.

Agree, I’ve just moved into a new build estate and I think they’ve only sold two houses in the last three months. Building houses faster won’t change that unless they’re giving them away under market value.

There’s been several houses here that have gone to reserved then a few weeks later have become available again, I guess the buyers have struggled to sell their own house or can’t get a mortgage.

When we were looking some builders wouldn’t even take a deposit from us unless we sold our own house and moved in to rented which we weren’t willing to do.

[Ozyhibby]

Agree, I’ve just moved into a new build estate and I think they’ve only sold two houses in the last three months. Building houses faster won’t change that unless they’re giving them away under market value.

There’s been several houses here that have gone to reserved then a few weeks later have become available again, I guess the buyers have struggled to sell their own house or can’t get a mortgage.

When we were looking some builders wouldn’t even take a deposit from us unless we sold our own house and moved in to rented which we weren’t willing to do.

If you can’t sell then maybe you are higher than market value?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Agree, I’ve just moved into a new build estate and I think they’ve only sold two houses in the last three months. Building houses faster won’t change that unless they’re giving them away under market value.

There’s been several houses here that have gone to reserved then a few weeks later have become available again, I guess the buyers have struggled to sell their own house or can’t get a mortgage.

When we were looking some builders wouldn’t even take a deposit from us unless we sold our own house and moved in to rented which we weren’t willing to do.

Building more houses lowers the price, I know that is obvious but some don't get that. The interest rates are probably the biggest deterrent, they should drop early next year although it will take a year for them to drop to nearer what they were pre pandemic.

If there is 250k empty homes, 250k were built last year and net migration is estimated to be 500k in the next 2 years, there soon won't be a house spare. Going to see homelessness numbers breaking records unless someone gets their finger out on housebuilding

[RyeSloan]

Building more houses lowers the price, I know that is obvious but some don't get that. The interest rates are probably the biggest deterrent, they should drop early next year although it will take a year for them to drop to nearer what they were pre pandemic.

If there is 250k empty homes, 250k were built last year and net migration is estimated to be 500k in the next 2 years, there soon won't be a house spare. Going to see homelessness numbers breaking records unless someone gets their finger out on housebuilding

Yet the only thing that’s actually lowered prices in the last 30 or so years has been the cost of money or availability of money.

The 89 crash was at least in part due to MIRAS removal…ergo having a mortgage cost more.

The 2008 crash was caused by a liquidity crunch (no lending = no borrowing)

This time it’s due to super fast interest rate rises. Cost of ownership up = price paid down.


On the flip side you have had a myriad of government interventions that have added liquidity to the market Help to Buy, Stamp duty holidays etc etc. and super low interest rates that have driven up prices over a very long time.

Then you add in punitive stamp rates higher up the ladder that help to squash availability in the secondary market and you can see that saying the volume of building is directly correlated to prices, and is the primary driver of them, is ignoring a huge number of other factors and drivers on the overall market.

It’s hard to imagine prices would have been so stretched if the government had left well alone and interest rates had been at ‘normal’ levels for the last decade.

So sure building numbers do matter, or actually maybe more the mix of building matters (as Edinburgh has just proven building more than anyone else does not a housing crisis avert).

But the cost of housing is not simply driven by new build housing numbers (not least due to the fact new builds are often priced as premium products and thus raise the average costs). It is of course A factor but just building more is far from a silver bullet.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yet the only thing that’s actually lowered prices in the last 30 or so years has been the cost of money or availability of money.

The 89 crash was at least in part due to MIRAS removal…ergo having a mortgage cost more.

The 2008 crash was caused by a liquidity crunch (no lending = no borrowing)

This time it’s due to super fast interest rate rises. Cost of ownership up = price paid down.


On the flip side you have had a myriad of government interventions that have added liquidity to the market Help to Buy, Stamp duty holidays etc etc. and super low interest rates that have driven up prices over a very long time.

Then you add in punitive stamp rates higher up the ladder that help to squash availability in the secondary market and you can see that saying the volume of building is directly correlated to prices, and is the primary driver of them, is ignoring a huge number of other factors and drivers on the overall market.

It’s hard to imagine prices would have been so stretched if the government had left well alone and interest rates had been at ‘normal’ levels for the last decade.

So sure building numbers do matter, or actually maybe more the mix of building matters (as Edinburgh has just proven building more than anyone else does not a housing crisis avert).

But the cost of housing is not simply driven by new build housing numbers (not least due to the fact new builds are often priced as premium products and thus raise the average costs). It is of course A factor but just building more is far from a silver bullet.

It's definitely not only decided by building more many things change the market, as i saidthe biggest factor just now is inflation. The list of events you put up were major events that changed prices. But more houses obviously help lower prices.

Also not helping is British people want big houses with gardens whilst in Europe there is much more good quality apartments. Its depressing seeing these semi detached villages with next to no social housing and ludicrous prices.

[RyeSloan]

It's definitely not only decided by building more many things change the market, as i saidthe biggest factor just now is inflation. The list of events you put up were major events that changed prices. But more houses obviously help lower prices.

Also not helping is British people want big houses with gardens whilst in Europe there is much more good quality apartments. Its depressing seeing these semi detached villages with next to no social housing and ludicrous prices.

Does Britain not typically have smaller houses than elsewhere?

But looking at Scotland the number of dwellings has risen roughly inline with the number of households in the last 20 years so you could argue that the supply has kept up with the demand.

Yet prices have increased substantially. So it could be argued that actually the supply side is the least of the factors and it has been other influences that have caused the increase.

Of course the mix of households and the type of supply etc. need to be factored in but ultimately my point is that largely focussing on new build numbers is not really the correct way to go about solving the issue.

It would be substantially better to ensure the myriad of other factors get equal weighting in the discussion.

I can agree tho that empty homes (3% in Scotland) and even second homes (1% in Scotland) are not the problem or the solution at a macro level.

[Stairway 2 7]

Does Britain not typically have smaller houses than elsewhere?

But looking at Scotland the number of dwellings has risen roughly inline with the number of households in the last 20 years so you could argue that the supply has kept up with the demand.

Yet prices have increased substantially. So it could be argued that actually the supply side is the least of the factors and it has been other influences that have caused the increase.

Of course the mix of households and the type of supply etc. need to be factored in but ultimately my point is that largely focussing on new build numbers is not really the correct way to go about solving the issue.

It would be substantially better to ensure the myriad of other factors get equal weighting in the discussion.

I can agree tho that empty homes (3% in Scotland) and even second homes (1% in Scotland) are not the problem or the solution at a macro level.

But we can't fix the biggest problems easily. Global pandemic and war caused our inflation. A war in the middle east won't help gas prices. What we can fix and easily is building houses which will of course ease prices. Fact is we need to build anyway net migration will decrease stock and raise prices further

A John Burn Murdoch article has been up previously on the subject, really good graphs on cities that built huge numbers to lower costs
https://archive.ph/jv1iH

All economists agree supply increase will decrease prices
https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-can-uk-policy-makers-make-homes-more-affordable

They won't build enough to change the market though, we need millions. The FT asked 80 economists how much house prices would decrease if we built 300k houses per year for 20 years, the average was a 10% decrease.

They extra could possibly be eaten up by net migration so we see no decrease

[hibee]

Also not helping is British people want big houses with gardens whilst in Europe there is much more good quality apartments. Its depressing seeing these semi detached villages with next to no social housing and ludicrous prices.

I don’t see the issue with people wanting a nice house with a decent garden, we spend most of our lives in the house nowadays so why would you want to be stuck in a tiny apartment.

Maybe if I lived in a warmer part of Europe where I could spend a large proportion of the day outside I’d be happy with an apartment but not in this country!

I probably now live in one of these depressing semi detached villages as you call them and I’ve never been happier.

The government or councils should be building social housing rather than forcing developers to stick a few token homes at the front of their developments.

[Ozyhibby]

It's definitely not only decided by building more many things change the market, as i saidthe biggest factor just now is inflation. The list of events you put up were major events that changed prices. But more houses obviously help lower prices.

Also not helping is British people want big houses with gardens whilst in Europe there is much more good quality apartments. Its depressing seeing these semi detached villages with next to no social housing and ludicrous prices.

British houses are some of the smallest in Europe?

https://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-house/


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[Stairway 2 7]

British houses are some of the smallest in Europe?

https://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-house/


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We want big detached houses but what we get is big estates with tiny houses and nothing else in them. I didn't realise how small our detached houses were. 20% of us live in apartments in the UK, Germany is 60% and 50% in cold sweeden live in apartments but they have a better level of housing satisfaction when surveyed.

Low density housing means huge sprawls that's worse for the environment and also leads to you needing a car.

[Ozyhibby]

We want big detached houses but what we get is big estates with tiny houses and nothing else in them. I didn't realise how small our detached houses were. 20% of us live in apartments in the UK, Germany is 60% and 50% in cold sweeden live in apartments but they have a better level of housing satisfaction when surveyed.

Low density housing means huge sprawls that's worse for the environment and also leads to you needing a car.

I agree. Modern tenements is the way to go for city living but the quality and size needs to improve.


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[danhibees1875]

I don’t see the issue with people wanting a nice house with a decent garden, we spend most of our lives in the house nowadays so why would you want to be stuck in a tiny apartment.

Maybe if I lived in a warmer part of Europe where I could spend a large proportion of the day outside I’d be happy with an apartment but not in this country!

I probably now live in one of these depressing semi detached villages as you call them and I’ve never been happier.

The government or councils should be building social housing rather than forcing developers to stick a few token homes at the front of their developments.

:agree:

Space, inside and out, is certainly my preference.

[Moulin Yarns]

Often developments are held up waiting for power , drainage being supplied to sites.
or schools, medical etc services being made available.

It’s not always the developers who delay developments

https://www.springfield.co.uk/homes-for-sale/3-perth

This is a totally new village of 3,500 houses, the school was built before anything else and include shops offices doctor surgery. That's what every decent development should be like.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-67305146
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231104/d3431ae10ccced4ac50688de0b60fb15.png

Well who could have predicted that?
Article is worth a read.


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[Hibs4185]

I got planning over a year ago for a site and I’m still getting paperwork and stuff done before I can build.

I’d build tomorrow but it’s a bit of a minefield

[StevieC]

https://www.springfield.co.uk/homes-for-sale/3-perth

This is a totally new village of 3,500 houses, the school was built before anything else and include shops offices doctor surgery. That's what every decent development should be like.

And a new Primary School in the pipeline 😉

Don’t get me started on the developers and the road to the Cross Tay Link Road though 🙄

[Moulin Yarns]

And a new Primary School in the pipeline 😉

Don’t get me started on the developers and the road to the Cross Tay Link Road though 🙄

As I understand it the CTLR is to reduce congestion and improve air quality in Bridgend. I thought Springfield were decent developers, fairly good environmentally.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1721491635110887522?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Not housing but principle is the same.


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[grunt]

I got planning over a year ago for a site and I’m still getting paperwork and stuff done before I can build.

I’d build tomorrow but it’s a bit of a minefield
Suggestion: don't build on a minefield.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/second-home-owners-set-to-be-charged-double-council-tax-in-scotland

Progress.


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[superfurryhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-67305146
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231104/d3431ae10ccced4ac50688de0b60fb15.png

Well who could have predicted that?
Article is worth a read.


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Yep, once more highlighting how we can't trust the private rented sector, particularly it's corporate investment division to act responsibly.

From the same article,

"The two councils face some housing problems in common, but also contrasting ones. Argyll's are based around the rural economy and its appeal to those who want a second home, or to own a holiday let. That has pushed up prices for ownership and for rent, in a county which does not have high earnings".

"Getting hold of land for development can be a problem where landowners are reluctant to co-operate".

"Edinburgh's housing problems have a lot to do with its success, in attracting people to live and work there, drawing in investors, a very large number of students and also tourists. Short-term lets are a challenge for Argyll and Edinburgh more than most others, where AirBnB landlords have turned so many homes into visitor accommodation".

"Council house sales, starting in the 1980s, allowed tenants to buy the homes they rented, at reduced cost. That was seen by some as hugely successful, in giving people a stake in their homes, more security than they had as tenants and an asset base. More widely, it stripped a large number of properties out of the reach of those who rent, and often the best quality ones.

Since then, councils and housing associations have struggled to meet demand with new building and refurbishments. The number of those who look to them for social housing - broadly speaking, below market prices - far outstrips the number of homes available.

That is the main cause of homelessness, where Edinburgh is housing 5000 households in temporary accommodation, and there are 200 applications for the average social tenancy."

"The rent freeze does not apply to new tenancies. So landlords use the opportunity of new tenancy contracts to raise rent in anticipation of future rent controls. And new contracts are often required when one person in a shared flat leaves and another comes in. There's more explanation in the Disclosure investigation for BBC Scotland".

"As usual, it is worst for those at the precarious margins, who are unable to get the housing they need. Housing benefits are vital for many, but insufficient to solve the problem. Those people's problems are connected to the wider private market - to a private rented sector in which rents for new tenancies are rising faster than any other part of the UK.

And the growth of private rentals is connected to the scale of demand outstripping supply of homes to own in the capital, which continues to push up prices, far beyond the starter flats and into every part of the market.


Basically, it's all down to greedy landlords, central and Scottish government failure over many years to invest in social housing and the an obsessive predisposition to promoting home ownership, which drives up the prices of property. That creates the cycle of unaffordability which faces many young people in employment, who are obliged to rent.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I’m sure you can give an example to show I’m wrong?


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Bit of a late reply, but council accommodation stays the same price regardless of demand, doesn't it? Also, properties where the landlord has remembered that their morals don't NEED to supervene completely on the whims of the market.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bit of a late reply, but council accommodation stays the same price regardless of demand, doesn't it? Also, properties where the landlord has remembered that their morals don't NEED to supervene completely on the whims of the market.

A large percentage of Edinburgh private rentals are controlled by a handful of groups. You need these massive groups to have a conscience and then the supermarkets, then power companies ect ect.

Unfortunately in the real world with capitalism every company and business maximises profits and will charge what people will pay.

It's up to the government to set rules or change the market to keep prices down.

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/itv-news-what-you-need-to-know/id1503075715?i=1000634399603

Horrific listening.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/redditchrachel/status/1724044040029585794?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yet another new housing minister. [emoji849]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/aarmstrong_says/status/1724104216388448377?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

16th housing minister since 2010. Lucky housing isn’t that important.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23953368.rents-scotland-soar-22-despite-scotgov-rent-freeze/

Misleading headline. It should say ‘because of’ instead of ‘despite’.
If this policy isn’t gone by next Holyrood election I won’t be voting for the SNP or Greens.


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[grunt]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23953368.rents-scotland-soar-22-despite-scotgov-rent-freeze/

Misleading headline. It should say ‘because of’ instead of ‘despite’.
If this policy isn’t gone by next Holyrood election I won’t be voting for the SNP or Greens.

You're right, it's hugely misleading. These figures relate to new tenancies, the vast majority of renters in continuing tenancies are capped at 3%. Not perfect I know, but the story and the headline reads as though all tenants are suffering these levels of increase.

It is of course entirely up to you who you vote for.

[Ozyhibby]

You're right, it's hugely misleading. These figures relate to new tenancies, the vast majority of renters in continuing tenancies are capped at 3%. Not perfect I know, but the story and the headline reads as though all tenants are suffering these levels of increase.

It is of course entirely up to you who you vote for.

So the increases are only happening to young people, newly arrived immigrants or anyone that has to move house. Guess that’s ok then.


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[grunt]

So the increases are only happening to young people, newly arrived immigrants or anyone that has to move house. Guess that’s ok then.
Please don't misquote me. I said it was misleading, I didn't say it was ok.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23953368.rents-scotland-soar-22-despite-scotgov-rent-freeze/

Misleading headline. It should say ‘because of’ instead of ‘despite’.
If this policy isn’t gone by next Holyrood election I won’t be voting for the SNP or Greens.


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I disagreed with you before it was implemented and you were right in what happened. I've since seen it has happened pretty much everywhere its been tried. The rises are not sustainable. The good work on Airbnbs will easily get swallowed up by this. It'll also put off what we desperately need, development

[Andy Bee]

Lothian showing the highest average rent for a two bed property at a whopping £1192 per month, wow just wow. Greater Glasgow showing the biggest increase by 22% since last year and 86% since 2010. Lothian being a close second.

[hibee]

Lothian showing the highest average rent for a two bed property at a whopping £1192 per month, wow just wow. Greater Glasgow showing the biggest increase by 22% since last year and 86% since 2010. Lothian being a close second.

86% since 2010 is probably less of an increase than the cost of buying the house.

I can understand students renting but if a family has £1200pm to pay rent I don’t understand why they don’t just buy a place.

[Ozyhibby]

86% since 2010 is probably less of an increase than the cost of buying the house.

I can understand students renting but if a family has £1200pm to pay rent I don’t understand why they don’t just buy a place.

Deposit? Credit rating? Earning multiples?
There are lots of reasons people can’t buy and lots of reasons some people don’t want to buy.


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[Stairway 2 7]

86% since 2010 is probably less of an increase than the cost of buying the house.

I can understand students renting but if a family has £1200pm to pay rent I don’t understand why they don’t just buy a place.

Because they can barely survive let alone save. The proof is in the fact that people are living with their parents 10 years longer than the millennium and house ownership is plummeting. I can see renting very much being the norm in a few decades

[Scouse Hibee]

86% since 2010 is probably less of an increase than the cost of buying the house.

I can understand students renting but if a family has £1200pm to pay rent I don’t understand why they don’t just buy a place.

If only they could, they probably would.

[Hibs4185]

I saw a 2 bed flat advertised today in Brunswick Road.

£1850 a month. Absolutely brutal

[Pretty Boy]

86% since 2010 is probably less of an increase than the cost of buying the house.

I can understand students renting but if a family has £1200pm to pay rent I don’t understand why they don’t just buy a place.

The 'double deposit' is the killer for many in Scotland.

You can just about save for a deposit. You can get a mortgage agreement in principle. However the mortgage provider will only loan you up to the home report valuation. I'm not sure on the current figure but for a while the average Edinburgh home was going for 15-20% above that. So say you have a house valued at £200K, a deposit of £20K then your lender will 'only' lend you £180K. That can potentially leave you looking for another £30-40K on top of that from your own resources.

Good luck finding that when you are shelling out 4 figures every month on rent. The whole system is broken.

The idea that home ownership is stagnating across the board and falling among the younger generations because people are choosing to rent rather than buy is flawed.

[hibee]

I saw a 2 bed flat advertised today in Brunswick Road.

£1850 a month. Absolutely brutal

Wow, my Mum and Dad sold our 2 bed in Brunswick Road for around £4000 a long long time ago, how times have changed!

[hibee]

The 'double deposit' is the killer for many in Scotland.

You can just about save for a deposit. You can get a mortgage agreement in principle. However the mortgage provider will only loan you up to the home report valuation. I'm not sure on the current figure but for a while the average Edinburgh home was going for 15-20% above that. So say you have a house valued at £200K, a deposit of £20K then your lender will 'only' lend you £180K. That can potentially leave you looking for another £30-40K on top of that from your own resources.

Good luck finding that when you are shelling out 4 figures every month on rent. The whole system is broken.

The idea that home ownership is stagnating across the board and falling among the younger generations because people are choosing to rent rather than buy is flawed.

Yes that’s definitely going to be difficult or more than likely impossible for most.

We moved in the summer but didn’t get any offers above the home report so I didn’t think that was as much of an issue now but we weren’t dealing with the centre of Edinburgh.

The double deposit probably explains why so many young folk we know are buying in huge new build estates like Wallyford.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/mwilliamsht/status/1730194715151089856?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Edinburgh did this a couple of weeks ago and I’m not sure a single thing changed?


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[Hibs4185]

As a developer, I have no idea why the government abolish the offers over system.

It just creates a million problems.

Yes you get more money for your house but then you loose it when buying your new house.

I’m sure there would be problems that would arise or reasons you can’t but thousands of people end up paying well over the odds or ending up heartbroken.

Then when a property sells for £20k over the value. Say £370,000 instead of £350,000. Surveyors then use the £3700,000 as the valuation for the equivalent property in the street.

So it’s a double whammy.

[grunt]

https://x.com/mwilliamsht/status/1730194715151089856?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Edinburgh did this a couple of weeks ago and I’m not sure a single thing changed?
I'm no expert, but presumably by having the Council declare something an emergency it allows them to access emergency plans, perhaps an emergency budget?

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm no expert, but presumably by having the Council declare something an emergency it allows them to access emergency plans, perhaps an emergency budget?

It doesn’t. It is really just them going on the record as saying they need more money from Holyrood.

[grunt]

It doesn’t. It is really just them going on the record as saying they need more money from Holyrood.
Thanks. :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

It doesn’t. It is really just them going on the record as saying they need more money from Holyrood.

That’s the problem with the UK. Every level of govt has to beg for money from above until you get to the UK govt which doesn’t give a monkeys anyway.


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[danhibees1875]

The 'double deposit' is the killer for many in Scotland.

You can just about save for a deposit. You can get a mortgage agreement in principle. However the mortgage provider will only loan you up to the home report valuation. I'm not sure on the current figure but for a while the average Edinburgh home was going for 15-20% above that. So say you have a house valued at £200K, a deposit of £20K then your lender will 'only' lend you £180K. That can potentially leave you looking for another £30-40K on top of that from your own resources.

Good luck finding that when you are shelling out 4 figures every month on rent. The whole system is broken.

The idea that home ownership is stagnating across the board and falling among the younger generations because people are choosing to rent rather than buy is flawed.

Things are a bit calmer now, anecdotally and from my experience selling (and monitoring similar houses selling) recently anyway. Maybe not the case everywhere across Edinburgh, but the average achieved is more around 4% over, so some areas will be in that 10%+ zone and some will be 0% or negative.

We sold ours for home report value after 2 bids from people unwilling or unable to go above for the reasons you highlight and were happy with that price so decided not to push any longer.

The value increase and the interest rates bringing about higher monthly payments are what looks incredible to me, we bought our house with a 10% deposit (new build, so no home report discrepancy to deal with*) and had a mortgage of £970 - if the couple who bought our house now done so with a 10% deposit the mortgage would be £1,800+.

*New builds have a similar issue though where you then pay the deposit again for carpets, flooring, upgrades, etc.
Although again that's calming, as house builders have plenty incentives to hand out currently.

[Pretty Boy]

I see the student accommodation at Jock's Lodge has had planning permission granted after the developer appealed to the SG who have now overturned the councils rejection.

[Ozyhibby]

I see the student accommodation at Jock's Lodge has had planning permission granted after the developer appealed to the SG who have now overturned the councils rejection.

Great news. I can see no reason why that would have been rejected in the first place.[emoji106]


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[Keyser Sauzee]

Great news. I can see no reason why that would have been rejected in the first place.[emoji106]


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Where about at Jocks Lodge is the hosing going to be?

[Ozyhibby]

Where about at Jocks Lodge is the hosing going to be?

I think where the pub was?


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[Pretty Boy]

Where about at Jocks Lodge is the hosing going to be?

The whole drag where the Willow/Old Jock's Lodge pub is.

Replacing the Willow, Limelite, Ball Room, bookies etc. Owner of Limelite will be running a new venture in the development.

Tbh it's had a lot of opposition and I understand some of the lamenting the fact that a pub or inn has stood on the site for centuries. However the space looks increasingly run down and whilst I'm a huge supporter of any drive to build more social housing I'm unaware of any rival bid to do so on this site so it's an irrelevant argument that will be overused.

[RyeSloan]

Great news. I can see no reason why that would have been rejected in the first place.[emoji106]


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Might have been due to the 1,000 objections made and the three local councillors for the area being against it after canvassing their electorate?

It’s also going to be 7 stories tall which is a rather gargantuan building for that site.

Owner of Limelite will be happy tho…he gets a brand new mega pub out of it.

[hibee]

Owner of Limelite will be happy tho…he gets a brand new mega pub out of it.

And hundreds of potential customers living right next door!

[Mon Dieu4]

I see the student accommodation at Jock's Lodge has had planning permission granted after the developer appealed to the SG who have now overturned the councils rejection.

Without even seeing any of the plans I'm 100% sure I know exactly what it will look like as well

[RyeSloan]

Without even seeing any of the plans I'm 100% sure I know exactly what it will look like as well

Were you thinking of this level of ugliness?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231214/af88dad1a944830a8b1156848accc63b.jpg

[Mon Dieu4]

Were you thinking of this level of ugliness?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231214/af88dad1a944830a8b1156848accc63b.jpg

Amazing how so many different architects can churn out the exact same ***** time and time again, copy and paste

[greenginger]

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/12/permanent-protection-for-trees-approved-on-housing-site/

I see our councillors are digging another hole for themselves .

A tree preservation order on building plots with planning permission and the roads , drains etc already in situ. :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/12/permanent-protection-for-trees-approved-on-housing-site/

I see our councillors are digging another hole for themselves .

A tree preservation order on building plots with planning permission and the roads , drains etc already in situ. :confused:

The same people will be complaining about high house prices soon enough. Ridiculous.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Housing emergency in Edinburgh, rents flying up, homelessness growing and large population growth expected in the future. But houses get objections from people who have a house already, I'm alright Jack. We need a planning overhaul soon, the one place UK is world beating is awful planning.

I don't understand the constant objections to student housing. These people are paying 10k+ a year for education, usually close to 1k a month in rent for these tiny rooms. If they don't get these they will outbid your average family for a rent every time. We can either let them buy every flat available or put them in huge rabbit hutches.

I notice Glasgow is building an 800 room 36 story skyscraper for students. We should do the same away from the centre perhaps down Newhaven beside the tram
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23974414.glasgow-development-plans-36-storey-student-skyscraper-put-forward/

[Ozyhibby]

Housing emergency in Edinburgh, rents flying up, homelessness growing and large population growth expected in the future. But houses get objections from people who have a house already, I'm alright Jack. We need a planning overhaul soon, the one place UK is world beating is awful planning.

I don't understand the constant objections to student housing. These people are paying 10k+ a year for education, usually close to 1k a month in rent for these tiny rooms. If they don't get these they will outbid your average family for a rent every time. We can either let them buy every flat available or put them in huge rabbit hutches.

I notice Glasgow is building an 800 room 36 story skyscraper for students. We should do the same away from the centre perhaps down Newhaven beside the tram
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23974414.glasgow-development-plans-36-storey-student-skyscraper-put-forward/

Totally agree. We need just about every category of housing. Even new luxury homes.
The biggest thing holding Edinburgh back is high housing costs.


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[Speedy]

Housing emergency in Edinburgh, rents flying up, homelessness growing and large population growth expected in the future. But houses get objections from people who have a house already, I'm alright Jack. We need a planning overhaul soon, the one place UK is world beating is awful planning.

I don't understand the constant objections to student housing. These people are paying 10k+ a year for education, usually close to 1k a month in rent for these tiny rooms. If they don't get these they will outbid your average family for a rent every time. We can either let them buy every flat available or put them in huge rabbit hutches.

I notice Glasgow is building an 800 room 36 story skyscraper for students. We should do the same away from the centre perhaps down Newhaven beside the tram
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23974414.glasgow-development-plans-36-storey-student-skyscraper-put-forward/

Agreed. I often think I'm missing something.

Loads of objections to student housing around gorgie/dalry in preference of affordable housing. If the students are in student accomodation, does that not free up tenement flats for non students?

[Ozyhibby]

Agreed. I often think I'm missing something.

Loads of objections to student housing around gorgie/dalry in preference of affordable housing. If the students are in student accomodation, does that not free up tenement flats for non students?

Absolutely. We just need more houses full stop.
Our problem is that everything just takes so long. I was down at Ferry road yesterday and the have now started work on the new houses where the old Craigroyston ash pitch used to be. That has been ear marked for houses since the school closed but it’s only getting built on now? Why on earth has it taken so long?
Fettes police station is being sold off now. That’s a massive piece of land that could fit a lot of houses/flats on. I bet it’s at least ten years before a brick is laid on that site.


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[greenginger]

The site just up from Fettes Police station on Craigleith Road, the old Victoria hospital, has been closed and the site cleared for about 15 years.

Every so often the various uses get brought up and discussed and put away for another survey , study, or consultation.

Still it keeps council officials in a job. :confused:

[The Modfather]

The whole drag where the Willow/Old Jock's Lodge pub is.

Replacing the Willow, Limelite, Ball Room, bookies etc. Owner of Limelite will be running a new venture in the development.

Tbh it's had a lot of opposition and I understand some of the lamenting the fact that a pub or inn has stood on the site for centuries. However the space looks increasingly run down and whilst I'm a huge supporter of any drive to build more social housing I'm unaware of any rival bid to do so on this site so it's an irrelevant argument that will be overused.

Dissapointing to hear that The Ball Room will be getting knocked down for student flats. Spent most of my teens in there playing snooker when it was called The Angle Club and then The New Yorker. If I lived that side of town again I’d genuinely not know where I could go for a game of snooker. Saying that locations are thin on the ground throughout the city.

[Ozyhibby]

Dissapointing to hear that The Ball Room will be getting knocked down for student flats. Spent most of my teens in there playing snooker when it was called The Angle Club and then The New Yorker. If I lived that side of town again I’d genuinely not know where I could go for a game of snooker. Saying that locations are thin on the ground throughout the city.

Same in the west of the city. Snooker just not as popular these days.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/historic-edinburgh-snooker-club-bar-26006043.amp


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[greenginger]

The whole drag where the Willow/Old Jock's Lodge pub is.

Replacing the Willow, Limelite, Ball Room, bookies etc. Owner of Limelite will be running a new venture in the development.

Tbh it's had a lot of opposition and I understand some of the lamenting the fact that a pub or inn has stood on the site for centuries. However the space looks increasingly run down and whilst I'm a huge supporter of any drive to build more social housing I'm unaware of any rival bid to do so on this site so it's an irrelevant argument that will be overused.


I’ve got some old maps, 1817 Kirkwood plans of Edinburgh and Jock’s Lodge is noted on that corner back then.

I hope the name is not lost, I remember it as a marker on my way to Easter Road on the 44 bus , back in the days when you got your ticket punched :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

The site just up from Fettes Police station on Craigleith Road, the old Victoria hospital, has been closed and the site cleared for about 15 years.

Every so often the various uses get brought up and discussed and put away for another survey , study, or consultation.



Early 2017.

[Ozyhibby]

Early 2017.

Even 6 years is too long. Council crying their eyes out about a housing emergency but not getting houses built.[emoji849]


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[lapsedhibee]

Even 6 years is too long.

:agree:

[Stairway 2 7]

Read something about different planning timescales in Europe, UK has years on everyone else. Planning, surveys, reviews plans, disputes, discussions someone will be making cash out. Think the housing emergency is like the climate emergency. Things need done today not talked about, we just aren't up to that.

Covid showed us similar, needed action now. Instead we got plan, look elsewhere, talk, then panic and still give jobs and bungs to mates businesses before anything meaningful is done. Sorry about the tangent

[Stairway 2 7]

Could the council or government build student flats the scale of Glasgow. Use the huge profits to build social housing and amenities for the areas with high influx of population?

[Ozyhibby]

Could the council or government build student flats the scale of Glasgow. Use the huge profits to build social housing and amenities for the areas with high influx of population?

Yes.


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[Ozyhibby]

Read something about different planning timescales in Europe, UK has years on everyone else. Planning, surveys, reviews plans, disputes, discussions someone will be making cash out. Think the housing emergency is like the climate emergency. Things need done today not talked about, we just aren't up to that.

Covid showed us similar, needed action now. Instead we got plan, look elsewhere, talk, then panic and still give jobs and bungs to mates businesses before anything meaningful is done. Sorry about the tangent

There will be more people employed talking about a development than there will be in the eventual building of it. That’s why we have such terrible productivity in the UK.


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[overdrive]

The site just up from Fettes Police station on Craigleith Road, the old Victoria hospital, has been closed and the site cleared for about 15 years.

Every so often the various uses get brought up and discussed and put away for another survey , study, or consultation.

Still it keeps council officials in a job. :confused:

I read that the council want one of Fettes or the Victoria Hospital to build a Gaelic High School.

[lapsedhibee]

I read that the council want one of Fettes or the Victoria Hospital to build a Gaelic High School.

Seem to have been considering this in 2021 (https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13278/council-re-examining-two-potential-central-edinburgh-sites-for-gaelic-secondary-school) but ruling it out in 2022 (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/gaelic-high-school-sites-edinburgh-25027389).

[Ozyhibby]

Seem to have been considering this in 2021 (https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13278/council-re-examining-two-potential-central-edinburgh-sites-for-gaelic-secondary-school) but ruling it out in 2022 (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/gaelic-high-school-sites-edinburgh-25027389).

They need to focus on bringing money in. A couple of hundred houses brings in much needed council tax. And helps house the population.


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[Mibbes Aye]

It’s got less attention because of the income tax changes but there were some serious steps taken on housing in today’s Scottish budget.

The overall housing budget was cut by nearly 30%.

The budget for new homes is now half of what it was in 2022-23. Nearly £200m taken out for this year coming, a similar amount already taken out this year

The budget for fuel poverty and housing quality is going to be cut to 8% (eight) of what it was last year.

If it wasn’t working before it’s not going to be working any better now.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s got less attention because of the income tax changes but there were some serious steps taken on housing in today’s Scottish budget.

The overall housing budget was cut by nearly 30%.

The budget for new homes is now half of what it was in 2022-23. Nearly £200m taken out for this year coming, a similar amount already taken out this year

The budget for fuel poverty and housing quality is going to be cut to 8% (eight) of what it was last year.

If it wasn’t working before it’s not going to be working any better now.

Not to mention the fact they keep ignoring planning reform (I know this isn’t a budget issue). It’s the one thing that costs nothing, delivers economic growth and also helps solve housing problem.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Not to mention the fact they keep ignoring planning reform (I know this isn’t a budget issue). It’s the one thing that costs nothing, delivers economic growth and also helps solve housing problem.


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https://www.transformingplanning.scot/

Every local authority has a duty to produce a local plan for development every 5 years. It identifies future opportunities for all development.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67944481

Not sure how long it will take though.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67944481

Not sure how long it will take though.

Great news and exactly what we need. Terrible name though.[emoji23]


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[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67944481

Not sure how long it will take though.

Is this the site that was knocked back from the Scottish government a few years ago? Think Edinburgh council approved it first!
Biggest problem with that area are the roads. They’ll need to do something substantial on the A8, or it will gridlock around the airport

[Ozyhibby]

Is this the site that was knocked back from the Scottish government a few years ago? Think Edinburgh council approved it first!
Biggest problem with that area are the roads. They’ll need to do something substantial on the A8, or it will gridlock around the airport

Already got a train and tram stop though so not as much infrastructure needed. I’m sure road will be upgraded as well.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Is this the site that was knocked back from the Scottish government a few years ago? Think Edinburgh council approved it first!
Biggest problem with that area are the roads. They’ll need to do something substantial on the A8, or it will gridlock around the airport

According to the article


The development is designed so residents could live there without needing a car.

Developers said the site would also have 27 acres of parks and a network of cycle, running and walking tracks.

[hibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67944481

Not sure how long it will take though.

They should be made to build all the promised parks, schools etc before any houses to stop them backing out of them once the house building starts.

I would hate to live on that stretch of road but I’m sure it will suit plenty of people.

[Stairway 2 7]

Great news and exactly what we need. Terrible name though.[emoji23]


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Read the link and was almost going to word for word write your reply, ****** West Town

[Ozyhibby]

Read the link and was almost going to word for word write your reply, ****** West Town

That surely won’t survive the first marketing meeting.


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[speedy_gonzales]

Is this the site that was knocked back from the Scottish government a few years ago? Think Edinburgh council approved it first!
Biggest problem with that area are the roads. They’ll need to do something substantial on the A8, or it will gridlock around the airport

This is a fairly new development/site proposal due to Edinburgh Airport giving up their crosswind runway and associated land.
There was another proposal a good few years back, across the A8. Land owned by David Murray and being touted as a "garden city".

[nonshinyfinish]

They should be made to build all the promised parks, schools etc before any houses to stop them backing out of them once the house building starts.

I would hate to live on that stretch of road but I’m sure it will suit plenty of people.

Absolutely.

This place is near me: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-66156561

Promised shops, cafes, sports facilities and a GP, then just built the houses and pissed off.

[Billy Whizz]

Noticed there’s a director called John Fyfe Hyland, listed as a director of this new build at the airport
Is he the ex Hibs man

[Moulin Yarns]

Absolutely.

This place is near me: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-66156561

Promised shops, cafes, sports facilities and a GP, then just built the houses and pissed off.

The new village at Bertha Park on the outskirts of Perth, the first thing built was the high school.

[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely.

This place is near me: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-66156561

Promised shops, cafes, sports facilities and a GP, then just built the houses and pissed off.

To be fair, they put in a train station here long before anyone needed it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I argued for a living rent on here in good faith, oz said it would increase rents as it has in every city that has tried it. It obviously did. Argentina has deregulated rent and prices have fallen 20% and availability has doubled. Supply and demand

https://twitter.com/MrRBourne/status/1745972753851728055

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/24062530.developer-axes-edinburgh-homes-snp-greens-rents-curb/?ref=eb&nid=1224&u=d038e6226499266bed3d90944eb30f83&date=200124


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[Berwickhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/24062530.developer-axes-edinburgh-homes-snp-greens-rents-curb/?ref=eb&nid=1224&u=d038e6226499266bed3d90944eb30f83&date=200124


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Correct me if I am wrong, because of legislation introduced by the Scottish Government being so rigid, the developers are not building family homes but student accommodation instead.

[Ozyhibby]

Correct me if I am wrong, because of legislation introduced by the Scottish Government being so rigid, the developers are not building family homes but student accommodation instead.

Yes. It’s perfectly logical. Build a family home and you can’t raise the rent in line with inflation then eventually you are going to be losing money. Build student accomodation and you can raise the rent because students move out every summer and you are allowed to raise rent on new tenancies.
That’s not the biggest problem though. The biggest issue is developers not building in Scotland at all. Why build in Scotland when England offers a less risky environment?
This is already happening with several developments being cancelled.
The more this happens, the higher rents will rise for new tenancies and the more landlords will leave the industry.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Yes. It’s perfectly logical. Build a family home and you can’t raise the rent in line with inflation then eventually you are going to be losing money. Build student accomodation and you can raise the rent because students move out every summer and you are allowed to raise rent on new tenancies.
That’s not the biggest problem though. The biggest issue is developers not building in Scotland at all. Why build in Scotland when England offers a less risky environment?
This is already happening with several developments being cancelled.
The more this happens, the higher rents will rise for new tenancies and the more landlords will leave the industry.


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I think housing is possibly the biggest issue in the UK if not now certainly the next 50 years. I don't understand why it doesn't get the press. Possibly as its easier to deflect, possibly as no major party can hold there head up in having helped the matter

[Ozyhibby]

I think housing is possibly the biggest issue in the UK if not now certainly the next 50 years. I don't understand why it doesn't get the press. Possibly as its easier to deflect, possibly as no major party can hold there head up in having helped the matter

No major party even has an interest in it at the moment. It’s baffling.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/danielhewittitv/status/1749739614934380777?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I imagine this won’t be much different in Scotland.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24072193.scottish-rent-cap-end-everything-need-know/
Rent freeze is being ditched. A move towards common sense.


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[hibee]

Even the Scottish Government are struggling to find good value rentals in Edinburgh now, according to this they spent £29,546.67 renting a 3 bed flat for Humza and his family for 5 months.


https://news.stv.tv/east-central/scottish-government-spent-855000-on-first-ministers-bute-house-repairs

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/abandoned-glasgow-flats-to-be-turned-into-homes-for-homeless-after-council-takeover

A tiny move but it's in the right direction, and if other owners aren't willing to use the property then get them bought up.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/abandoned-glasgow-flats-to-be-turned-into-homes-for-homeless-after-council-takeover

A tiny move but it's in the right direction, and if other owners aren't willing to use the property then get them bought up.

I’m sure there is a reason for it but why don’t the council just rent them out themselves rather than hand to housing association?


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[Moulin Yarns]

I’m sure there is a reason for it but why don’t the council just rent them out themselves rather than hand to housing association?


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Answer is in the article.

[greenginger]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/abandoned-glasgow-flats-to-be-turned-into-homes-for-homeless-after-council-takeover

A tiny move but it's in the right direction, and if other owners aren't willing to use the property then get them bought up.


I read an article that said Edinburgh Council had 1500 empty flats but did not have the funds to bring them up to rentable standards.

Can I CPO some of them ? :greengrin

[w pilton hibby]

I’m sure there is a reason for it but why don’t the council just rent them out themselves rather than hand to housing association?


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Check out Wheatley Homes.

[hibee]

Check out Wheatley Homes.

Just had a quick look at what’s available, there’s a 2 bed flat for £76pw, no wonder they get so many applications at that price.

[hibee]

Another article explaining the rush to switch to student flats, Gordon Smith and Hibs even get a mention.

https://www.cockburnassociation.org.uk/news/why-are-we-building-student-flats-and-not-affordable-homes/

[Ozyhibby]

Another article explaining the rush to switch to student flats, Gordon Smith and Hibs even get a mention.

https://www.cockburnassociation.org.uk/news/why-are-we-building-student-flats-and-not-affordable-homes/

The rent freeze will be over soon so hopefully things will get moving again. A terrible policy that even the Greens don’t seem to be fighting too hard to bring back.


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[superfurryhibby]

Worth noting that it's not some landlord feeding frenzy after 31 March.

"If a tenant is concerned about the level of a proposed rent increase, they can raise it with their landlord or agent and apply to a rent officer at Rent Service Scotland, or to the First-tier Tribunal if applicable, for a rent adjudication.

The regulations would temporarily modify the rent adjudication process for 12 months so that on making a decision on adjudication, the rent officer would use a rent taper formula which can be summarised as below:

If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is 6% or less, then the landlord can increase the rent by the proposed amount, as long as this is not more than the market level.

If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is more than 6%, the landlord can increase the rent by 6% plus an additional 0.33% for each percent that the gap between the current rent and market rent exceeds 6%, as per the formula set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. However, the total rent increase cannot exceed 12% of the current rent.

https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/articles/transitional-measures-proposed-as-private-rent-cap-ends

[Ozyhibby]

Worth noting that it's not some landlord feeding frenzy after 31 March.

"If a tenant is concerned about the level of a proposed rent increase, they can raise it with their landlord or agent and apply to a rent officer at Rent Service Scotland, or to the First-tier Tribunal if applicable, for a rent adjudication.

The regulations would temporarily modify the rent adjudication process for 12 months so that on making a decision on adjudication, the rent officer would use a rent taper formula which can be summarised as below:

If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is 6% or less, then the landlord can increase the rent by the proposed amount, as long as this is not more than the market level.

If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is more than 6%, the landlord can increase the rent by 6% plus an additional 0.33% for each percent that the gap between the current rent and market rent exceeds 6%, as per the formula set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. However, the total rent increase cannot exceed 12% of the current rent.

https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/articles/transitional-measures-proposed-as-private-rent-cap-ends

The madness of this policy has pushed market rents up for new tenancies so far that many existing tenants are now sitting well below market rate.
I suspect lots of tenants will be getting emails on 1st April with substantial increases. Although I don’t think they will bring the policy back, until it’s ruled out officially then landlords will not want to be caught out again.
The whole idea has been a disaster for tenants and not great for landlords either.
And it’s not like there wasn’t evidence from around the world showing what a disaster it would be.


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[superfurryhibby]

The madness of this policy has pushed market rents up for new tenancies so far that many existing tenants are now sitting well below market rate.
I suspect lots of tenants will be getting emails on 1st April with substantial increases. Although I don’t think they will bring the policy back, until it’s ruled out officially then landlords will not want to be caught out again.
The whole idea has been a disaster for tenants and not great for landlords either.
And it’s not like there wasn’t evidence from around the world showing what a disaster it would be.


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No they won't because there are still controls around rent rises.

"If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is more than 6%, the landlord can increase the rent by 6% plus an additional 0.33% for each percent that the gap between the current rent and market rent exceeds 6%, as per the formula set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. However, the total rent increase cannot exceed 12% of the current rent".

https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/...-rent-cap-ends

Evidence from around the world (as in two places, Argentina and Australia is it ?) that fits your agenda and is totally irrelevant to property in Scotland.

It's landlords that have pushed rents up, not a policy. You seem to struggle with distinguishing the impact of greed with the effect of legislation attempting to reduce the impact of that greed.

[Ozyhibby]

No they won't because there are still controls around rent rises.

"If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is more than 6%, the landlord can increase the rent by 6% plus an additional 0.33% for each percent that the gap between the current rent and market rent exceeds 6%, as per the formula set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. However, the total rent increase cannot exceed 12% of the current rent".

https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/...-rent-cap-ends

Evidence from around the world (as in two places, Argentina and Australia is it ?) that fits your agenda and is totally irrelevant to property in Scotland.

It's landlords that have pushed rents up, not a policy. You seem to struggle with distinguishing the impact of greed with the effect of legislation attempting to reduce the impact of that greed.

The controls limit rises to 12%. That will be small consolation for a tenant whose rent goes up by 10%.
Everywhere rent controls have been attempted has ended in failure. Look it up if you like. Better still, show me an example of them working.
Govt setting prices in anything doesn’t work. Otherwise, wouldn’t all govts do it? Surely it would be an election winner to say steaks will now only cost £1 maximum. Who could possibly be against that?


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[RyeSloan]

No they won't because there are still controls around rent rises.

"If the gap between the market rent and the current rent is more than 6%, the landlord can increase the rent by 6% plus an additional 0.33% for each percent that the gap between the current rent and market rent exceeds 6%, as per the formula set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. However, the total rent increase cannot exceed 12% of the current rent".

https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/...-rent-cap-ends

Evidence from around the world (as in two places, Argentina and Australia is it ?) that fits your agenda and is totally irrelevant to property in Scotland.

It's landlords that have pushed rents up, not a policy. You seem to struggle with distinguishing the impact of greed with the effect of legislation attempting to reduce the impact of that greed.

You equate every Landlord to being greedy..doesn’t help the argument to come across as balanced.

What would be balanced is providing evidence of where rental control have worked.

You are right that though that specific read across from where they have been tried is not always easy as planning and housing varies so much in countries. That would hold for where (if?) they have been proven to be successful as well.

Berlin is also a great example of what havoc controls can have.

But it’s hard to see what this policy has done in terms of long term benefit and the article above re student accommodation shows just the danger of such things and their unintended consequences.

[superfurryhibby]

You equate every Landlord to being greedy..doesn’t help the argument to come across as balanced.

What would be balanced is providing evidence of where rental control have worked.

You are right that though that specific read across from where they have been tried is not always easy as planning and housing varies so much in countries. That would hold for where (if?) they have been proven to be successful as well.

Berlin is also a great example of what havoc controls can have.

But it’s hard to see what this policy has done in terms of long term benefit and the article above re student accommodation shows just the danger of such things and their unintended consequences.

I think what I said is correct and I definitely didn't suggest that all landlords are greedy, did I?

"It's landlords that have pushed rents up, not a policy. You seem to struggle with distinguishing the impact of greed with the effect of legislation attempting to reduce the impact of that greed".



I think rent controls were well intended in Scotland and the on-going efforts to minimise the impact of exploitative rent rises is well considered.

The issue of rent controls is complex. Berlin, Buenos Aires, Melbourne (not sure if that was the Australian example), vastly different cities, with very different housing cultures from Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

I think what I said is correct and I definitely didn't suggest that all landlords are greedy, did I?

"It's landlords that have pushed rents up, not a policy. You seem to struggle with distinguishing the impact of greed with the effect of legislation attempting to reduce the impact of that greed".



I think rent controls were well intended in Scotland and the on-going efforts to minimise the impact of exploitative rent rises is well considered.

The issue of rent controls is complex. Berlin, Buenos Aires, Melbourne (not sure if that was the Australian example), vastly different cities, with very different housing cultures from Scotland.

If a landlords costs go up then he is going to have to pass that on or he will go bust. Same as any business. That’s not greed.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/scottish-labour-pledges-new-build-discounts-for-first-time-buyers

Scottish Labour get on on the market distorting nonsense of discounts for first time buyers. It won’t work.
There is a train away line about planning on there so maybe there is some hope?
Just come out and say you are going to build more houses and show us how you plan to do it. All the rest is just noise or worse, something the makes the problem worse.


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[RyeSloan]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/scottish-labour-pledges-new-build-discounts-for-first-time-buyers

Scottish Labour get on on the market distorting nonsense of discounts for first time buyers. It won’t work.
There is a train away line about planning on there so maybe there is some hope?
Just come out and say you are going to build more houses and show us how you plan to do it. All the rest is just noise or worse, something the makes the problem worse.


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And maybe look to cut the punitive taxation charged at higher levels via LBTT as well…the impact of that in the likes of Edinburgh must be substantial in terms of discouraging people to move (upsize or downsize or even sideways).

This relentless (and as you say often counter productive) focus on ‘helping’ just the ‘first time buyer’ totally ignores the fact that supply of existing stock is just as important as new stock.

Enabling more existing owners to move more freely (I.e. not have to find a large tax lump to pay for the privilege of moving) would surely help to increase availability and suitability. Which in turn can help moderate prices as there is more supply on the secondary market.

But my meander aside I agree in general…more hot air and more false promises while also pretending it’s all in the politicians hands to solve it all quickly.

[Stairway 2 7]

Edinburgh is ridiculous, boy at work pays 500 for a room but this takes the biscuit

https://twitter.com/AlternativeEdin/status/1760394748655780063

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/DPh4PN8e0ds?si=iUWSOm2J0QOh_Pj2

Great video about how Finland set about eradicating homelessness.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/homebuilders-investigated-over-sharing-information-which-could-influence-prices


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/politicians-hammered-landlords-unprecedented-rent-crisis/

Won’t happen but it would definitely help.


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[superfurryhibby]

https://www.ft.com/content/a1ec4f19-ff00-4675-bbaa-e42f6b0f3846

https://www.ft.com/content/a1ec4f19-ff00-4675-bbaa-e42f6b0f3846

From Simon Kuper-Financial Times

How to reduce homelessness? The frustrating thing is that we know what works. Statutory homelessness fell 69 per cent from 2003 to 2010, largely because the Labour government prioritised an unpopular issue. The solution: build social housing, while providing treatment and counselling to help people recover.

Prevention is better. We could plug the holes in the safety net, such as the point of exit from care or prison, when many become homeless. That would reduce the fortunes we’re spending on temporary housing, emergency healthcare, addiction treatment and prison, which all serve to keep people “just not homeless”. Tucker marvels at how much she cost society during nearly 20 years of addiction. Bird asks: “Why do we put an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, not a fence at the top?”

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.ft.com/content/a1ec4f19-ff00-4675-bbaa-e42f6b0f3846

https://www.ft.com/content/a1ec4f19-ff00-4675-bbaa-e42f6b0f3846

From Simon Kuper-Financial Times

How to reduce homelessness? The frustrating thing is that we know what works. Statutory homelessness fell 69 per cent from 2003 to 2010, largely because the Labour government prioritised an unpopular issue. The solution: build social housing, while providing treatment and counselling to help people recover.

Prevention is better. We could plug the holes in the safety net, such as the point of exit from care or prison, when many become homeless. That would reduce the fortunes we’re spending on temporary housing, emergency healthcare, addiction treatment and prison, which all serve to keep people “just not homeless”. Tucker marvels at how much she cost society during nearly 20 years of addiction. Bird asks: “Why do we put an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, not a fence at the top?”

All the solutions are known and available to us.


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[superfurryhibby]

https://www.ft.com/content/5c49931e-9ddd-3db3-8a67-3fc2bc18f0d2


From 2005, but still relevant?

Why the housing ladder doesn't exist anymore


The calculations above are overly generous to the case for buying a flat, because they leave out the often very large maintenance costs incurred by owning property, the need to buy home insurance, transaction costs (and their risks) and so on. In the same way repayments are smaller earlier on, to counteract higher interest on a larger principal amount, the maintenance costs for older flats are often front-loaded on buyers. For many new-build flats which do not have front-loaded maintenance costs, the buyer is subject to high service fees built into the contract.

Buying a flat might seem an attractive strategy because it combines the consumption of housing services with investment. But this is also one reason it is a dangerous strategy. Whereas a highly-levered investment in equities with the £30,000 could result in, say, £100,000 or nothing, the highly-levered investment in the flat is worse in the bad scenario than it is good in the good scenario. In the scenarios in which the price falls, it is not only true that capital has been lost, as with the stocks. The owner of the capital is likely to be trapped in the flat, forced to consume a type of housing service they no longer want, indefinitely, precisely because they combined their living arrangement with their investment. This is a kind of unanticipated purgatorial externality.

[AgentDaleCooper]

All the solutions are known and available to us.


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Is a massive wealth tax on the super-rich one of them? Cause that's the only thing that's going to stop them buying up assets if the cost of living keeps on rising. Any solution simply has to see massive property portfolios being broken up.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1772190228691722603?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread.

If I thought Labour were serious about proper reform of this I would vote for them.

https://www.ft.com/content/bef934b4-7474-4381-8195-447d5346dc1f

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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1772190228691722603?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread.

If I thought Labour were serious about proper reform of this I would vote for them.

https://www.ft.com/content/bef934b4-7474-4381-8195-447d5346dc1f

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Uk has one of the lowest rates of second home ownership and also the one of the lowest rates of homes lying empty. I just wonder if it really is about supply like everyone with a slight clue has been screaming.

Yes no party is interested as far as i can see, even though its the biggest issue facing the under 30s

[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1772190228691722603?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread.

If I thought Labour were serious about proper reform of this I would vote for them.

https://www.ft.com/content/bef934b4-7474-4381-8195-447d5346dc1f

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If I thought they were serious about not being a Tory Lite party I wou…………nah, I just couldn’t trust them to do anything radical enough to force real change

[Ozyhibby]

If I thought they were serious about not being a Tory Lite party I wou…………nah, I just couldn’t trust them to do anything radical enough to force real change

Thing is, this is pro business, pro growth stuff. It’s just needs somebody to get it done.


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[Andy Bee]

Uk has one of the lowest rates of second home ownership and also the one of the lowest rates of homes lying empty. I just wonder if it really is about supply like everyone with a slight clue has been screaming.

Yes no party is interested as far as i can see, even though its the biggest issue facing the under 30s

Not sure where you're getting your figures from and I'm not disputing them but TBF most if not all Scandinavian countries have a very high second home ownership figure due to them having Summer houses, houses/huts (hytte) they own and holiday in which probably skews the figures.

Lesley Riddoch does a very interesting series on various Nations, the Norway one includes an interview with a couple who explain the "hytte"


https://lesleyriddoch.com/films

[Stairway 2 7]

Not sure where you're getting your figures from and I'm not disputing them but TBF most if not all Scandinavian countries have a very high second home ownership figure due to them having Summer houses, houses/huts (hytte) they own and holiday in which probably skews the figures.

Lesley Riddoch does a very interesting series on various Nations, the Norway one includes an interview with a couple who explain the "hytte"


https://lesleyriddoch.com/films

The article I replied to? We've one of the lowest second home ownership in the whole of Europe

"It cited a study showing 4 per cent of British households owned second homes for their own use, compared with 9 per cent in France, 17 per cent in Finland and 22 per cent in Spain"

"Share of adults who are landlords:
• UK 4.6%
• US 7%
• Austria 10%
• Germany 12%
• France 13%"

[Ozyhibby]

The article I replied to? We've one of the lowest second home ownership in the whole of Europe

"It cited a study showing 4 per cent of British households owned second homes for their own use, compared with 9 per cent in France, 17 per cent in Finland and 22 per cent in Spain"

"Share of adults who are landlords:
• UK 4.6%
• US 7%
• Austria 10%
• Germany 12%
• France 13%"

It’s a lot of fun to attack landlords and blame them for the housing shortage rather than our own nimbyism. Even if there are not enough of them and they actually provide housing.


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[MKHIBEE]

Thing is, this is pro business, pro growth stuff. It’s just needs somebody to get it done.


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Couldn’t agree more. The problem is who is going to get it done? I cannot see where the political will is to force the changes needed. It’s more of the same nonsense that created the present climate in the first place

[marinello59]

Another take.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/19/end-of-landlords-surprisingly-simple-solution-to-uk-housing-crisis?CMP=share_btn_url

[MKHIBEE]

Thing is, this is pro business, pro growth stuff. It’s just needs somebody to get it done.


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Couldn’t agree more. The problem is who is going to get it done? I cannot see where the political will is to force the changes needed. It’s more of the same nonsense that created the present climate in the first place

[superfurryhibby]

Another take.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/19/end-of-landlords-surprisingly-simple-solution-to-uk-housing-crisis?CMP=share_btn_url

"Here, as in the US, we have been lured into a fruitless debate about supply. There is a confected dispute between anti-housebuilding “nimbys” and pro-housebuilding “yimbys”, led by energetic planning-law abolitionists, which seeks to distract us from talking about the ultimate sources of the housing crisis. The supply issue continues to dominate the discourse despite the US having more homes per capita than at any point in its history, and the UK’s homes-per-capita ratio actually exceeds the US’s.

The yimby argument has always seemed flimsy. Its strange logic is that speculative developers would build homes in order to devalue them: that they would somehow act against their own interests by producing enough surplus homes to bring down the average price of land and housing. That would be surprisingly philanthropic behaviour"

[Ozyhibby]

"Here, as in the US, we have been lured into a fruitless debate about supply. There is a confected dispute between anti-housebuilding “nimbys” and pro-housebuilding “yimbys”, led by energetic planning-law abolitionists, which seeks to distract us from talking about the ultimate sources of the housing crisis. The supply issue continues to dominate the discourse despite the US having more homes per capita than at any point in its history, and the UK’s homes-per-capita ratio actually exceeds the US’s.

The yimby argument has always seemed flimsy. Its strange logic is that speculative developers would build homes in order to devalue them: that they would somehow act against their own interests by producing enough surplus homes to bring down the average price of land and housing. That would be surprisingly philanthropic behaviour"

Homes per capita?
Families are nowhere near the size they once were? People are no longer living in multi generational households?
Do you want to go back to that? Five kids sharing a bedroom?
Because that’s why home per capita doesn’t really tell us much?
And the article also states that London’s population hasn’t risen in 70 years?


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[lapsedhibee]

I cannot see where the political will is to force the changes needed.

Does Big Housing pay political parties directly, on a register available for the public to inspect, to ensure that their interests stay protected, or is it done by nods and winks at The Garrick? :dunno:

[Stairway 2 7]

Another take.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/19/end-of-landlords-surprisingly-simple-solution-to-uk-housing-crisis?CMP=share_btn_url

It's utter nonsense and similar to the guardians bizarre take on this multiple times this year. It simply goes against supply and demand to say more housing won't decrease house prices. In every city that has relaxed housing laws and built, prices have came down of course

It also doesn't factor that immigration is running at net 700k the last few years. We've got one of the smallest amount of spare homes in Europe if we don't build homelessness is going to continue to increase in the dramatic way it has. The way uk works just now people happy with a home are the ones who decide if we build homes for those who don't, I can understand the tories being NIMBY but not others.

In only 10 years 700,000 more adults are living with parents than before and over 30s living with parents has went from 8% to 11%. The number of 30 year olds owning a home has went from 65% in 1960 to 30% now

We need to build all types of homes, private rental and purchase, student homes and most importantly social housing. No party is interested because young people are the ones suffering and they don't vote I suppose

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/housebuilding-in-scotland-plummets-official-figures-reveal

This is what failure looks like. The SNP need to start focussing on what actually matters to people and stop all the culture war nonsense.


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[superfurryhibby]

It's utter nonsense and similar to the guardians bizarre take on this multiple times this year. It simply goes against supply and demand to say more housing won't decrease house prices. In every city that has relaxed housing laws and built, prices have came down of course

It also doesn't factor that immigration is running at net 700k the last few years. We've got one of the smallest amount of spare homes in Europe if we don't build homelessness is going to continue to increase in the dramatic way it has. The way uk works just now people happy with a home are the ones who decide if we build homes for those who don't, I can understand the tories being NIMBY but not others.

In only 10 years 700,000 more adults are living with parents than before and over 30s living with parents has went from 8% to 11%. The number of 30 year olds owning a home has went from 65% in 1960 to 30% now

We need to build all types of homes, private rental and purchase, student homes and most importantly social housing. No party is interested because young people are the ones suffering and they don't vote I suppose

Shows us examples from British cities where what you say is borne out?

[Stairway 2 7]

Shows us examples from British cities where what you say is borne out?

Oz previously put up a study with about 8 different cities that had changed rules from neighbouring cities to increase housing and the prices dropped markedly in every one compared to the ones that did nothing. It's in this thread look back you commented on it im sure.

How could I show uk examples when each city is governed by the same archaic planning laws. Housebuilding is ludicrously low nationwide. We have one of the lowest amount of spare homes in Europe, the lowest amount of landlords and one of largest net immigration figures and there is some people saying we don't need massive Housebuilding. The youth staying with their parents are saying it the boomers not so much

[superfurryhibby]

Oz previously put up a study with about 8 different cities that had changed rules from neighbouring cities to increase housing and the prices dropped markedly in every one compared to the ones that did nothing. It's in this thread look back you commented on it im sure.

How could I show uk examples when each city is governed by the same archaic planning laws. Housebuilding is ludicrously low nationwide. We have one of the lowest amount of spare homes in Europe, the lowest amount of landlords and one of largest net immigration figures and there is some people saying we don't need massive Housebuilding. The youth staying with their parents are saying it the boomers not so much

:aok:

[superfurryhibby]

The proponents of relaxing planning restrictions and believers in the free market capacity to resolve the housing crisis are influenced by the likes of this. Clearly massively driven by ideology and anti socialist thinking from the right.

"The fashionable idea that Thatcherism caused Britain’s housing crisis is an extremely insular perspective, which assumes that state housebuilding is the norm, and deviating from it after 1980 was a crazed ideological experiment. In reality, it was postwar Britain that was the outlier, in that it relied on public housebuilding to an unusual extent. Far from being a golden age, the postwar decades were a period of relative decline, in housing as in so many other areas. We can argue about when precisely the rot set in, but it was definitely before 1980. The culprit is the planning system, and the focus on Thatcherism is a distraction. If you feel socially obliged to blame Thatcher – blame her for her failure to do anything on planning, not for the Right To Buy".

Written by HEAD OF POLITICAL ECONOMY

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA's Editorial Director, and Head of Political Economy. Kristian studied Economics at the Humboldt Universität zu Berlin and the Universidad de Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). He also studied Political Economy at King's College London, graduating in 2013 with a PhD. Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and taught Economics at King's College London. He is the author of the books "Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies" (2019), "Universal Healthcare Without The NHS" (2016), "Redefining The Poverty Debate" (2012) and "A New Understanding of Poverty" (2011).



His other articles quoted here give a sense of where he's coming from. Universal Healthcare without the NHS....GTF

[Ozyhibby]

The proponents of relaxing planning restrictions and believers in the free market capacity to resolve the housing crisis are influenced by the likes of this. Clearly massively driven by ideology and anti socialist thinking from the right.

"The fashionable idea that Thatcherism caused Britain’s housing crisis is an extremely insular perspective, which assumes that state housebuilding is the norm, and deviating from it after 1980 was a crazed ideological experiment. In reality, it was postwar Britain that was the outlier, in that it relied on public housebuilding to an unusual extent. Far from being a golden age, the postwar decades were a period of relative decline, in housing as in so many other areas. We can argue about when precisely the rot set in, but it was definitely before 1980. The culprit is the planning system, and the focus on Thatcherism is a distraction. If you feel socially obliged to blame Thatcher – blame her for her failure to do anything on planning, not for the Right To Buy".

Written by HEAD OF POLITICAL ECONOMY

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA's Editorial Director, and Head of Political Economy. Kristian studied Economics at the Humboldt Universität zu Berlin and the Universidad de Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). He also studied Political Economy at King's College London, graduating in 2013 with a PhD. Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and taught Economics at King's College London. He is the author of the books "Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies" (2019), "Universal Healthcare Without The NHS" (2016), "Redefining The Poverty Debate" (2012) and "A New Understanding of Poverty" (2011).



His other articles quoted here give a sense of where he's coming from. Universal Healthcare without the NHS....GTF

I’m massively in favour of freeing up the planning system, especially denser living in cities. I’m also in favour of a massive expansion in the building of state housing.
I don’t think any party is serious about either issue.
Arguing about ideologies is a waste of time.


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[superfurryhibby]

I’m massively in favour of freeing up the planning system, especially denser living in cities. I’m also in favour of a massive expansion in the building of state housing.
I don’t think any party is serious about either issue.
Arguing about ideologies is a waste of time.


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Nah, the guy is profoundly ideologically motivated, that informs his argument.

Planning does need reform, particularly to allow individuals more freedom to build there own homes in rural areas.

I agree with that. I also agree that there seems to be no political will in Britain to tackle the housing crisis through building social housing (no surprise, given the main parties are effectively cheeks of the same Neo-Liberal erse).

I think there our views probably part ways :-) .

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/patrickharvie/status/1772914704547033115?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Here is a man who can’t learn a lesson. Fresh from forcing Scottish rents up faster than anywhere else in the UK, he’s going to try and do it all again.


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[RyeSloan]

https://x.com/patrickharvie/status/1772914704547033115?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Here is a man who can’t learn a lesson. Fresh from forcing Scottish rents up faster than anywhere else in the UK, he’s going to try and do it all again.


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Quite a feat so far…lambasted by Shelter Scotland and the Association of Landlords. Bravo!

[Ozyhibby]

Quite a feat so far…lambasted by Shelter Scotland and the Association of Landlords. Bravo!

Must take a special type of confidence in yourself always being right to be able to ignore all the evidence around you and plough on anyway.


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[One Day Soon]

Must take a special type of confidence in yourself always being right to be able to ignore all the evidence around you and plough on anyway.


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I had a fascinating chat with a pal who is a relatively senior Green Party insider a few weeks back and who isn't a fan of their leadership. There's apparently next to no internal division about the rent freeze policy they are trying to set in stone. It's expected to impact across all types of properties in the private rented sector, the vast majority of which are flats.

The person I was speaking with then asked me what type of tenure and property I thought the vast majority of Green Party membership live in...

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nJfQwDt-AHE?si=6Qog-iOsDMdKXfuW


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[superfurryhibby]

"This housing emergency has been decades in the making, and one born out of political choices. Through long-term, insufficient regulation in the private rented sector, Scotland has seen an extortionate rise in private rents year-on-year: rises which far exceed both inflation and wage increases. This is a trend across the UK, and Scotland’s people need to see parliament’s devolved powers on housing meaningfully put to work.

While the unaffordability of renting is a historical problem, the cost of living crisis has made the pressures on tenants far more acute. In the past year rents across Scotland increased by 14.3%, amounting to an average rent of £841 per month. Open market rent is significantly higher at an average of £1097 per month. This pressure is heightened in urban areas, with Greater Glasgow rents rising by 22.3%. In Lothian rents rose by 18.4% in the last year. It is important to note that these significant above-inflation rent hikes happened in the context of Scottish private rental sector stock increasing in number by 5,000 properties since Aug 2022.

We know that unaffordable rents are a major driver of poverty. Housing is the largest financial outgoing in most households, and while low pay is the main cause of escalating poverty rates, our market-driven housing system is the main driver of both poverty and wealth. Scotland’s lowest paid workers are forced to pay a significant proportion of their incomes on rent, with those on the minimum wage paying 50% or more of their take home pay, often on poor quality, badly insulated housing. When measured against the existing repairing standard in 2019, 50% of Scotland’s housing stock - across all tenures - had disrepair to a critical element.

This pressure is exacerbated by over a decade of wage stagnation and increasing costs for essentials including energy, fuel, food, and childcare. This further impacts on poverty levels. An estimated 11% of households in poverty were experiencing ‘very low’ food security – meaning that meals were skipped, or food intake reduced because the family could not afford enough food. The Scottish Government must deliver affordable, secure, quality housing in both the private and social sector if it is serious about achieving its 2030 poverty reduction targets.

The scale of this housing emergency has also placed considerable strain on our already-struggling local services. Local authorities in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Argyll and Bute have stated that they cannot fulfil their statutory duties of housing all who present homeless. Ensuring that everyone has access to a safe and affordable home is vital for alleviating pressure on other local services. The 2024 Scottish Homelessness Monitor suggests that homelessness will rise by 33% in Scotland this year.

With bold leadership and vision, this can be prevented. We ask that you introduce a national rent cap until the introduction of permanent and robust rent controls. Tenants across Scotland cannot afford to wait for change. The proposed ‘transitional’ rent adjudication measures announced in January are confusing and difficult to enforce. As a result we will see people facing unaffordable rent increases up and down the country, which will act as de facto evictions and push more people into poverty.

You have the power to address this crisis. We urge you to consider the emergency that tenants are facing post March 2024 and intervene before it reaches every local authority in Scotland".

https://www.livingrent.org/living_rent_launch_open_letter

[lapsedhibee]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nJfQwDt-AHE?si=6Qog-iOsDMdKXfuW


The fact that the IEA agrees so exactly with you tends to make me question your long-standing view on this subject!

[superfurryhibby]

The fact that the IEA agrees so exactly with you tends to make me question your long-standing view on this subject!

Hugely influenced by right wing, Neo-Liberal thinking.

[lapsedhibee]

Hugely influenced by right wing, Neo-Liberal thinking.

IEA are the ones doing the influencing. Didn't they put Truss up to her great experiment with the UK economy?

[Ozyhibby]

IEA are the ones doing the influencing. Didn't they put Truss up to her great experiment with the UK economy?

Right wing, left wing doesn’t really matter. What matters here is what works. There are zero successful rent cap system anywhere in the world. All they do is kill house building stone dead.
Try not to worry about who is saying what and look at the problem itself.
If price caps worked, why don’t we use them for everything? Shouldn’t we cap the price of a pint of milk? In fact why don’t we cap the price of all food? It’s a human right after all to eat?


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[lapsedhibee]

Right wing, left wing doesn’t really matter. What matters here is what works. There are zero successful rent cap system anywhere in the world. All they do is kill house building stone dead.
Try not to worry about who is saying what and look at the problem itself.
If price caps worked, why don’t we use them for everything? Shouldn’t we cap the price of a pint of milk? In fact why don’t we cap the price of all food? It’s a human right after all to eat?


UKGov regulated the price of bread in the 1910s and 1920s. A period during which we won a World War and ran an Empire. So that worked, at least.

[RyeSloan]

UKGov regulated the price of bread in the 1910s and 1920s. A period during which we won a World War and ran an Empire. So that worked, at least.

Yes and they rationed food in the Second World War and won that as well!

So anyone involved in a war just needs to cap the price of bread, bring out some ration books and hey presto they win the war and solve a housing crisis at the same time. Simples!

[Ozyhibby]

UKGov regulated the price of bread in the 1910s and 1920s. A period during which we won a World War and ran an Empire. So that worked, at least.

And had to ration bread. [emoji106]


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[superfurryhibby]

IEA are the ones doing the influencing. Didn't they put Truss up to her great experiment with the UK economy?

Ozzy likes to parrot the ideas that arise from right wing think tanks and guys that have very right wing views and thinks they apply to the Scottish issues.

[Ozyhibby]

Ozzy likes to parrot the ideas that arise from right wing think tanks and guys that have very right wing views and thinks they apply to the Scottish issues.

I’m sure you are about to share with us an example of successful rent cap policy from around the world? There are plenty of places which have tried it?


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[Andy Bee]

I’m sure you are about to share with us an example of successful rent cap policy from around the world? There are plenty of places which have tried it?


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Germany :dunno: Landlords can't raise the rent in the first 12 months and they cannot raise the rent above 15% over 3 years. Also rent cannot be more than 20% higher than comparable households in the area which is calculated every 4 years. I'm not sure of house prices over there though and whether landlords get tax relief or pay the rip off LBBT we have here.

[Ozyhibby]

Germany :dunno: Landlords can't raise the rent in the first 12 months and they cannot raise the rent above 15% over 3 years. Also rent cannot be more than 20% higher than comparable households in the area which is calculated every 4 years. I'm not sure of house prices over there though and whether landlords get tax relief or pay the rip off LBBT we have here.

That’s a system that landlords could live with no problem. Not a rent cap though. And importantly it would not discourage investment in new houses.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87zgx42m5go

The Resolution Foundation think tank recently said that the most common living arrangement for an adult aged between 18 and 34 in 1997 was being in a couple with children, but now it was living with your parents.


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[superfurryhibby]

Pushed to the edge: Living Rent publishes findings from renters survey.

Some very concerning findings here, particularly around poor quality and unsafe accommodation and the impact on people's well being.

We don't need more private sector housing, Edinburgh is already bursting to the seams with new homes, most of which are unaffordable to citizens on minimum wage and low wage incomes. The green belt has been massively breached and you have to laugh at the nimby cliche. Like ordinary people have the power to object to development and have a voice that's listened to, when we know all too well the Scottish Government routinely overturn objections.

We need more social housing.


https://www.livingrent.org/pushed_to_the_edge


49.5% of private tenants have experienced a rent increase since January 2023. Just under three-quarters (73.5%) of these rent rises were limited to 3%, while the rest went up by an average of 25.7%. Higher rent increases were mostly due to landlords using loopholes in the rent cap, namely joint tenancy swaps as well as illegal rent increases following landlord pressuring a tenant.


84.2% are concerned that their landlord will increase the rent when the rent cap ends on 31 March 2024 with the majority (59.2%) expecting it will go up by 10% or higher.

More than 85% of renters concerned about their rent rising believe it will impact on their quality of life in various ways: 73.1% will have to cut back on non-essentials; 48.49% will have to cut back on essentials; 47.6% will be displaced from their neighbourhood or city; 36.9% might have to borrow money; 20.4% say they will be forced to move to another neighbourhood; 27.2% say they will be forced to leave the city altogether; 25.7% will have to take on more shifts at work; and 25.2% will be forced to take a second job.

73% of tenants said that worrying about rent increase has had an impact on their mental health (of which 46% said that worrying about rent increases has had a huge impact on their mental health).

61% of private tenants have outstanding disrepair problems in their home, averaging more than two issues per affected tenancy; 13.7% of private tenants have between 3 and 7 outstanding disrepair issues. 33.7% of private tenants are living with an outstanding structural disrepair (e.g. ceiling, windows, walls, roofs) and 31.7% of private renters are living with damp and mould. Just under half of private tenancies with disrepair experienced a rent increase after January 2023, and almost all suspect their landlord will put the rent up after 1 April 2024.

99.1% of tenants with disrepair say it has impacted their mental health. 62.2% of tenants with disrepair say it has adversely impacted their physical health. The vast majority of these health effects relate to respiratory (chest infections, asthma, colds, coughs, breathing) and skin conditions from the excessive cold, damp and mould issues tenants experience.

[Ozyhibby]

Pushed to the edge: Living Rent publishes findings from renters survey.

Some very concerning findings here, particularly around poor quality and unsafe accommodation and the impact on people's well being.

We don't need more private sector housing, Edinburgh is already bursting to the seams with new homes, most of which are unaffordable to citizens on minimum wage and low wage incomes. The green belt has been massively breached and you have to laugh at the nimby cliche. Like ordinary people have the power to object to development and have a voice that's listened to, when we know all too well the Scottish Government routinely overturn objections.

We need more social housing.


https://www.livingrent.org/pushed_to_the_edge


49.5% of private tenants have experienced a rent increase since January 2023. Just under three-quarters (73.5%) of these rent rises were limited to 3%, while the rest went up by an average of 25.7%. Higher rent increases were mostly due to landlords using loopholes in the rent cap, namely joint tenancy swaps as well as illegal rent increases following landlord pressuring a tenant.


84.2% are concerned that their landlord will increase the rent when the rent cap ends on 31 March 2024 with the majority (59.2%) expecting it will go up by 10% or higher.

More than 85% of renters concerned about their rent rising believe it will impact on their quality of life in various ways: 73.1% will have to cut back on non-essentials; 48.49% will have to cut back on essentials; 47.6% will be displaced from their neighbourhood or city; 36.9% might have to borrow money; 20.4% say they will be forced to move to another neighbourhood; 27.2% say they will be forced to leave the city altogether; 25.7% will have to take on more shifts at work; and 25.2% will be forced to take a second job.

73% of tenants said that worrying about rent increase has had an impact on their mental health (of which 46% said that worrying about rent increases has had a huge impact on their mental health).

61% of private tenants have outstanding disrepair problems in their home, averaging more than two issues per affected tenancy; 13.7% of private tenants have between 3 and 7 outstanding disrepair issues. 33.7% of private tenants are living with an outstanding structural disrepair (e.g. ceiling, windows, walls, roofs) and 31.7% of private renters are living with damp and mould. Just under half of private tenancies with disrepair experienced a rent increase after January 2023, and almost all suspect their landlord will put the rent up after 1 April 2024.

99.1% of tenants with disrepair say it has impacted their mental health. 62.2% of tenants with disrepair say it has adversely impacted their physical health. The vast majority of these health effects relate to respiratory (chest infections, asthma, colds, coughs, breathing) and skin conditions from the excessive cold, damp and mould issues tenants experience.

I agree we need more social housing.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Germany :dunno: Landlords can't raise the rent in the first 12 months and they cannot raise the rent above 15% over 3 years. Also rent cannot be more than 20% higher than comparable households in the area which is calculated every 4 years. I'm not sure of house prices over there though and whether landlords get tax relief or pay the rip off LBBT we have here.

Shelter have previously said they want this policy and are against a rent cap.

As Shelter says
"Rent levels are high because there are too many people who have to rent, and not enough homes available. Rents can only be reduced sustainably by increasing the overall supply of all types of homes, so that more people can get a social home or buy their own with a mortgage, and fewer private renters have to compete over each available home."

I find it utterly bizarre people (usually who have a home themselves) are against house building. We need all homes badly if we want prices to drop because er economics
https://blog.shelter.org.uk/2014/02/are-rent-caps-the-answer/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.shelter.org.uk/2015/05/a-rent-cap-in-name-only/%3famp=1

[lapsedhibee]

I find it utterly bizarre people (usually who have a home themselves) are against house building.

Usually quite rational, no? People who are eventually going to downsize want there to be as large a gap as possible between the value of their big house and their wee house, and that is best achieved if the value of both stays high, rather than both lowered by a glut of houses. Rational self-interest.

[JimBHibees]

I see a lot of chat here about the lack of house building. I stay in West Lothian and there has been enormous amount of vast new estates being thrown up all over the place. Also other large estates in east Lothian both Musselburgh and next to A1 near the pans. Assume not enough particularly social housing.

[Ozyhibby]

I see a lot of chat here about the lack of house building. I stay in West Lothian and there has been enormous amount of vast new estates being thrown up all over the place. Also other large estates in east Lothian both Musselburgh and next to A1 near the pans. Assume not enough particularly social housing.

We need all type of housing and all types of tenure. There needs to be more flats built in the city of Edinburgh as well.


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[Pretty Boy]

Usually quite rational, no? People who are eventually going to downsize want there to be as large a gap as possible between the value of their big house and their wee house, and that is best achieved if the value of both stays high, rather than both lowered by a glut of houses. Rational self-interest.

I think that is the system working exactly as it was intended to work.

I'm not convinced mass home ownership was ever meant to last more than a generation or 2 and relying on peoples inherent desire to protect their own equity/financial well being as a tool to control that was quite probably a big part of the plan. A bit of inter generational conflict that sees the proles fighting among themselves is a decent distraction from focusing on the real 'enemy'.

The fact the state managed to shed responsibility for huge swathes of social housing and put the replacement into the hands of the private sector is a nice little bonus. The slow but steady shift to housing being provided by for profit associations either as stand alone or in partnership with the more typical not for profits is a sad but inevitable next step.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.cala.co.uk/homes-for-sale/scotland/edinburgh/waterfront-plaza-leith/

These properties are not serving the housing needs of those on low incomes. We can build on every green space, destroy many of the qualities that made Edinburgh a good place to live and still prices won't come down.

Does anyone, other than those with a vested interest, really believe that building more flats, houses in the private sector will make homes more accessible? It's a myth.

The answer is more social housing. This country has done it before, it can be done again. It needs political will, sadly lacking in the mainstream parties. They can find the money when they need to.


How much did the banking crisis cost the UK taxpayer? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout

Last December, the National Audit Office published a second report into the costs of the bail-out. That report concluded:

The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.

But the NAO also concluded that costs would continue for years to come (i'll bet it did).

[Pretty Boy]

https://www.cala.co.uk/homes-for-sale/scotland/edinburgh/waterfront-plaza-leith/

These properties are not serving the housing needs of those on low incomes. We can build on every green space, destroy many of the qualities that made Edinburgh a good place to live and still prices won't come down.

Does anyone, other than those with a vested interest, really believe that building more flats, houses in the private sector will make homes more accessible? It's a myth.

The answer is more social housing. This country has done it before, it can be done again. It needs political will, sadly lacking in the mainstream parties. They can find the money when they need to.


How much did the banking crisis cost the UK taxpayer? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout

Last December, the National Audit Office published a second report into the costs of the bail-out. That report concluded:

The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.

But the NAO also concluded that costs would continue for years to come (i'll bet it did).

I've always felt when it comes to new builds there is a huge gap in the market for modest 2 and 3 bedroom homes at genuinely affordable prices. It's like people know but just won't accept that a huge number of people desperate to get on the property ladder are young to middle aged couples with school age children. People who can't afford 'luxury 3, 4 and 5 bedroom homes and apartments in one of Edinburgh's most sought after neighbourhoods' or for whom a 1 or 2 bedroom flat just isn't suitable. I suppose the obvious retort is that beggars can't be choosers but wanting a compact 2 or 3 bedroom house that is semi detached or a maisonette hardly screams 'ideas above their station' to me.

There are 'affordable' home schemes in Edinburgh where the price range is set at between £230K and 370K. Who exactly is that affordable to? A couple on the average salary in Scotland (£27000ish) would be stretched pretty much at the extremes of what any responsible lender would give as a mortgage at the lower end of that scale. Of course wealthy people need homes to but don't market something as 'affordable' when it is quite clearly aimed at those on salaries significantly above what the average person earns.

It's the same with schemes like mid market rent. They were nominally aimed at couples looking to save for a deposit, as a short term measure to allow them to save on rent and thus save for a deposit. It's farcical; there are MMR flats behind the Jack Kane Centre that are charging £1100-1300 a month for a 2 bedroom flat. Again who is that aimed at that? Who is going to have enough disposable income after shelling out £1300 on rent and a further £150+ on council tax to make any meaningful progress on saving for a 5-10% deposit on an 'affordable' £300K home?

No one in a position to actually influence things wants there to be a massive shift when it comes to housing. It's why we have seen a lot of schemes that help a few people into ownership (and I'm sure those people are exceptionally grateful for them) but are largely focused on maintaining high prices and high value for existing owners. In all the years politicians of various shades have been sloganeering about 'creating generation buy' home ownership continues to stagnate overall and drop in those under 40. Only a fool would think that isn't by design.

[JimBHibees]

I've always felt when it comes to new builds there is a huge gap in the market for modest 2 and 3 bedroom homes at genuinely affordable prices. It's like people know but just won't accept that a huge number of people desperate to get on the property ladder are young to middle aged couples with school age children. People who can't afford 'luxury 3, 4 and 5 bedroom homes and apartments in one of Edinburgh's most sought after neighbourhoods' or for whom a 1 or 2 bedroom flat just isn't suitable. I suppose the obvious retort is that beggars can't be choosers but wanting a compact 2 or 3 bedroom house that is semi detached or a maisonette hardly screams 'ideas above their station' to me.

There are 'affordable' home schemes in Edinburgh where the price range is set at between £230K and 370K. Who exactly is that affordable to? A couple on the average salary in Scotland (£27000ish) would be stretched pretty much at the extremes of what any responsible lender would give as a mortgage at the lower end of that scale. Of course wealthy people need homes to but don't market something as 'affordable' when it is quite clearly aimed at those on salaries significantly above what the average person earns.

It's the same with schemes like mid market rent. They were nominally aimed at couples looking to save for a deposit, as a short term measure to allow them to save on rent and thus save for a deposit. It's farcical; there are MMR flats behind the Jack Kane Centre that are charging £1100-1300 a month for a 2 bedroom flat. Again who is that aimed at that? Who is going to have enough disposable income after shelling out £1300 on rent and a further £150+ on council tax to make any meaningful progress on saving for a 5-10% deposit on an 'affordable' £300K home?

No one in a position to actually influence things wants there to be a massive shift when it comes to housing. It's why we have seen a lot of schemes that help a few people into ownership (and I'm sure those people are exceptionally grateful for them) but are largely focused on maintaining high prices and high value for existing owners. In all the years politicians of various shades have been sloganeering about 'creating generation buy' home ownership continues to stagnate overall and drop in those under 40. Only a fool would think that isn't by design.

Excellent post it is a scandal how difficult it is for young people to get on the property ladder or even a reasonably priced rented one.

[Stairway 2 7]

We need all homes built 3,4 beds, student accommodation, flats, social housing.

We have one of the smallest amount of empty homes in Europe and an explosion of 30yo and under now living with their parents. Add in one of the highest net immigration in Europe and where are these people going to move into.

We need an enormous amount of houses built but no political party is interested.

[superfurryhibby]

I've always felt when it comes to new builds there is a huge gap in the market for modest 2 and 3 bedroom homes at genuinely affordable prices. It's like people know but just won't accept that a huge number of people desperate to get on the property ladder are young to middle aged couples with school age children. People who can't afford 'luxury 3, 4 and 5 bedroom homes and apartments in one of Edinburgh's most sought after neighbourhoods' or for whom a 1 or 2 bedroom flat just isn't suitable. I suppose the obvious retort is that beggars can't be choosers but wanting a compact 2 or 3 bedroom house that is semi detached or a maisonette hardly screams 'ideas above their station' to me.

There are 'affordable' home schemes in Edinburgh where the price range is set at between £230K and 370K. Who exactly is that affordable to? A couple on the average salary in Scotland (£27000ish) would be stretched pretty much at the extremes of what any responsible lender would give as a mortgage at the lower end of that scale. Of course wealthy people need homes to but don't market something as 'affordable' when it is quite clearly aimed at those on salaries significantly above what the average person earns.

It's the same with schemes like mid market rent. They were nominally aimed at couples looking to save for a deposit, as a short term measure to allow them to save on rent and thus save for a deposit. It's farcical; there are MMR flats behind the Jack Kane Centre that are charging £1100-1300 a month for a 2 bedroom flat. Again who is that aimed at that? Who is going to have enough disposable income after shelling out £1300 on rent and a further £150+ on council tax to make any meaningful progress on saving for a 5-10% deposit on an 'affordable' £300K home?

No one in a position to actually influence things wants there to be a massive shift when it comes to housing. It's why we have seen a lot of schemes that help a few people into ownership (and I'm sure those people are exceptionally grateful for them) but are largely focused on maintaining high prices and high value for existing owners. In all the years politicians of various shades have been sloganeering about 'creating generation buy' home ownership continues to stagnate overall and drop in those under 40. Only a fool would think that isn't by design.

Good post PB, mirrors many of my own thoughts.

We were once sold the "dream" of home ownership so the Tories could flog our social housing stock on the cheap. Now we have a generational housing crisis whereby young people in work cannot buy property in the communities where they grew up. Instead they are forced into a cycle of rental which consumes a significant part of their incomes. The only winners here are the people who see property as a commodity, something to make profit from. I'm not talking individual landlords here, more corporate investment (like the 285 new flats being built solely for rental in Fountainbridge or the vast swathes of student flats appearing all over the city, like the development proposed and opposed at Dalton's scrappies on Salamander St (I wonder if the Living Rent movement and the many individuals who oppose this are Nimby's?).

[superfurryhibby]

We need all homes built 3,4 beds, student accommodation, flats, social housing.

We have one of the smallest amount of empty homes in Europe and an explosion of 30yo and under now living with their parents. Add in one of the highest net immigration in Europe and where are these people going to move into.

We need an enormous amount of houses built but no political party is interested.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburgh-housing-crisis-more-than-9000-properties-sitting-empty-amid-soaring-demand-for-housing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-thousands-more-empty-homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2024/02/10/sheffield-has-almost-7000-empty-homes-and-its-an-absolute-disgrace-says-councillor/

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburgh-housing-crisis-more-than-9000-properties-sitting-empty-amid-soaring-demand-for-housing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-thousands-more-empty-homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2024/02/10/sheffield-has-almost-7000-empty-homes-and-its-an-absolute-disgrace-says-councillor/

Empty homes should be taxed to within an inch of their lives. Council tax should also be due when planning permission is granted to stop builders sitting on plots for years.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburgh-housing-crisis-more-than-9000-properties-sitting-empty-amid-soaring-demand-for-housing-3966840

More than 9000 empty homes in Edinburgh, I wonder why that can be?

Do you have a link to the stats on empty homes across Europe? I suppose it would only be meaningful if compared to cities of a similar size.

"More than 4,500 properties in Liverpool have been empty for at least six months, recent government figures show". https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-thousands-more-empty-homes-21234082

"There are currently 2641 long term-empty homes in Glasgow, and the Local Housing Strategy 2023-28 has a target of 1800 empty homes being re-occupied over that period" https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=30758

" At a full council meeting earlier this week, Coun Mike Levery asked a series of questions on empty homes in Sheffield and he was told the total number of empty homes in the A-H tax band range was 6,922 at the end of 2023"-

https://thesouthyorkshirescoop.com/2024/02/10/sheffield-has-almost-7000-empty-homes-and-its-an-absolute-disgrace-says-councillor/

Yes I found it by going back on this thread.

Scotland has about 2% of homes lying empty that's thousands but only Switzerland and Iceland has less in Europe, England 3% Ireland 12%, Germany France 10%. Edinburgh is closer to 3%

https://www.gov.scot/publications/bringing-empty-homes-back-use-audit-privately-owned-empty-homes-scotland/pages/4/

Some graphs just to so how much further behind the rest of the world uk is for empty homes. Add into that we are expected to have net 400k immigration the next 5 years and ours will drop to the least in Europe

[Stairway 2 7]

Article on UK having one of the lowest amount of empty homes in Europe, therfore highest rents

If we were to match the EU average for empty homes per 100k in the UK, we would have to build 3.5 million homes, to match German speaking Europe we would need 5 million. This is for UK Scotland has 50% less available

We also have one of the lowest percentage of people owning second homes and lowest percentage of landlords in Europe, as discussed a few pages back

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-britain-needs-more-empty-homes/

[superfurryhibby]

Article on UK having one of the lowest amount of empty homes in Europe, therfore highest rents

If we were to match the EU average for empty homes per 100k in the UK, we would have to build 3.5 million homes, to match German speaking Europe we would need 5 million. This is for UK Scotland has 50% less available

We also have one of the lowest percentage of people owning second homes and lowest percentage of landlords in Europe, as discussed a few pages back

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-britain-needs-more-empty-homes/

We've discussed this guy before. He is ultra right wing proponent of neoliberal social policy, not credible in my view.

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA’s Editorial Director and Head of Political Economy at the IEA.

He studied Economics at the Humboldt University Berlin and the University of Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). In 2013, he completed a PhD in Political Economy at King’s College London.

Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and at King’s College London, where he taught Economics throughout his postgraduate studies.

He is the author of the books A New Understanding of Poverty (2011), Redefining the Poverty Debate (2012), Universal Healthcare Without The NHS (2016) and Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies (2019).

[Stairway 2 7]

We've discussed this guy before. He is ultra right wing proponent of neoliberal social policy, not credible in my view.

Dr Kristian Niemietz is the IEA’s Editorial Director and Head of Political Economy at the IEA.

He studied Economics at the Humboldt University Berlin and the University of Salamanca, graduating in 2007 as Diplom-Volkswirt (≈MSc in Economics). During his studies, he interned at the Central Bank of Bolivia (2004), the National Statistics Office of Paraguay (2005), and at the IEA (2006). In 2013, he completed a PhD in Political Economy at King’s College London.

Kristian previously worked as a Research Fellow at the Berlin-based Institute for Free Enterprise (IUF), and at King’s College London, where he taught Economics throughout his postgraduate studies.

He is the author of the books A New Understanding of Poverty (2011), Redefining the Poverty Debate (2012), Universal Healthcare Without The NHS (2016) and Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies (2019).

Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

[superfurryhibby]

Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

[Stairway 2 7]

I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising 😆

[Ozyhibby]

Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising [emoji38]

That’s it in a nutshell. We either need less people or more houses.


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[Ozyhibby]

I'll definitely dismiss views from someone who is a senior figure in ultra right think tanks and a proponent of healthcare without an NHS :agree:

Fair points about homes that are empty. However statistics aren't the full story. Britain has always had a greater incidence of reliance on the rented property (social and private sector) than comparable European countries, How does that influence those statistics? Does it really matter how many homes are empty in Lithuania or Poland? I'm not so sure about your statement about empty houses driving down rents. Are rents really cheaper in the likes of Dublin (comparable ?) and Edinburgh?

TBH, I'm only really interested in Scotland and the impact of gentrification and social cleansing in the communities I know best. Housing is only one, albeit significant, manifestation of massive and social, health and economic inequality. There are many others.

I'm much more interested to know why Edinburgh has 9000 empty homes. As the statistics I posted show, that is a significantly higher number than other British cities of a similar size (Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle). Is it because property and home ownership is more commoditised than in comparable cities. People buying just for investment, or do we have lots more minted people who live in their second homes? Given the lucrative nature of the rental market here, compared to those other cities, you would imagine our empty house numbers to be lower.....maybe they're all being air b'nb by tax avoidant ruthless capitalist pigs? :wink:

Dublin situation worse than here.


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[Andy Bee]

I passed by the Cala development today at Maybury, out of interest I looked up the prices and the cheapest 2 bed flat is £340k going upto £1.265m for a five beddy house. It'd be interesting to see the ratio of these flats purchased for private rental. They just screamed foreign investor rental properties to me and at that price I shudder to think the rent they would command. Edinburgh seems to be going the same as Manchester in building thousands of flats which are useless for families and less decent family sized homes, pension funds financing huge tower blocks solely for private rentals. It wasn't that long ago that we moved out of Edinburgh to West Lothian into a Scottish Special new build along with thousands of others and also witnessed LDC build 10's of thousands of affordable rental properties in Livingston so it's doable. Council yards in every town which created 1,000's of good well paid jobs for school leavers to upkeep the stock and it's all gone.

[superfurryhibby]

Loads in Europe have a much higher percentage of renters like Germany where its the norm. They also have over 4 times the spare homes than Scotland, three times Edinburgh.

9000 sounds a lot but at 3% of homes free that would still be the third smallest of any oecd nation.

Uk has one of the lowest amount of landlords in Europe and people owning second homes so we can't really blame that for prices. What we do have is a fraction of the spare homes compared with every nation. Where are the youth living with parents going to move into when we also have massive immigration figures. It's a sellers market. The most simple of economics says bild more and the landlords have less power to charge what they want.

If we are expecting 400k net immigration per year we obviously need that as a minimum that but it should be nearer 1 million. We've been averaging close to 700k net migration and building 200k homes them wondering why house prices are rising ��

Looking at population and housing across the UK us very different from considering population and housing in Scotland. Clearly, England is a very different entity ( massive densely populated) to the other home nations and that creates a very skewed picture. Housing is a devolved responsibility, what applies to our 57 million neighbours doesn’t always translate to Scotland and it’s much less densely populated 5.5 million. The net migration stats you quote are hugely influenced by the scandalous social care sponsorship programme. It’s a temporary measure and I know it’s already beginning to unravel, with systemic issues with modern day slavery, totally **** care and of course the denial of a decent living wage to our non sponsorship social care staff

[Hibrandenburg]

Dismiss his point if you want, what about the figures they are from Scottish government and the oecd. You asked where I got the figures that we have one of the least empty homes in Europe, we actually have one of the least in the world

Scotland has 2% of homes lying empty, Edinburgh 3%

Only Switzerland and Iceland are bellow Scotland according to the oecd. Germany, France, Ireland and the US all have 4 to 5 times more empty houses driving down rents.

We would need millions of empty homes to match the EU average.

Just look at the graph.

I'm not sure what the home ownership figures are in Germany and am on the bounce so no time to look, but there's definitely a cultural difference when it comes to owning your own home over here. Germans tend to move around more than Brits, I guess that makes renting more attractive than buying. I think the laws governing landlords and what standards they have to hold makes it less attractive as a business model too.

Like I said, just a gut feeling and happy to be corrected.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nearly-10000-council-houses-empty-32654358?utm_source=app

Everyone seems to thing council houses are the solution but surely not if they leave them empty?


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[MKHIBEE]

I think that is the system working exactly as it was intended to work.

I'm not convinced mass home ownership was ever meant to last more than a generation or 2 and relying on peoples inherent desire to protect their own equity/financial well being as a tool to control that was quite probably a big part of the plan. A bit of inter generational conflict that sees the proles fighting among themselves is a decent distraction from focusing on the real 'enemy'.

The fact the state managed to shed responsibility for huge swathes of social housing and put the replacement into the hands of the private sector is a nice little bonus. The slow but steady shift to housing being provided by for profit associations either as stand alone or in partnership with the more typical not for profits is a sad but inevitable next step.

Unfortunately political parties and the media are adept at creating such situations, and, even more unfortunately, many of the public fall for it

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2024/02/austin-apartments-boomed-and-rents-went-down-now-some-builders-are-dismantling-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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[Colr]

https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2024/02/austin-apartments-boomed-and-rents-went-down-now-some-builders-are-dismantling-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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Demand v supply! Who would guess? Worked in Vienna as well.

[MKHIBEE]

https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2024/02/austin-apartments-boomed-and-rents-went-down-now-some-builders-are-dismantling-the-cranes/

Austin in Texas freed up planning and started building lots of housing. And rents plummeted as a result. We know what works, it just needs political will.


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Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/19/austin-housing-affordability-zoning/

[Ozyhibby]

Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/19/austin-housing-affordability-zoning/

Is that from before they changed the planning rules?


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[MKHIBEE]

Is that from before they changed the planning rules?


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The article is dated September 2023, I imagine the information would have been current at that time. It’s unlikely that planning rule changes after that date would have resulted in a significant change in such a short time

[superfurryhibby]

Another view on Austin’s housing issues
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/19/austin-housing-affordability-zoning/

Interesting article, presenting different views and perspectives on the impact of the housing crisis, gentrification and planning restrictions.

Not sure how much of it relates to Scotland, where we have a very different approach to planning and in Edinburgh in particular where prices are influenced by other factors too, like the huge market for student accommodation and the impact of short term, tourist lets.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/housing-bill-new-fm-john-swinney-faces-demands-to-prioritise-housing-bill-amid-astronomical-rent-increases

Unconcerned by the evidence it forced rents up, they are back for more. I don’t think what’s good for tenants is actually what matters to them.[emoji35]
Just build more bloody houses you idiots.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Housing emergency, homelessness and house prices rising, no new affordable homes being built in Edinburgh in the next year..

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/no-new-affordable-homes-approved-29132668?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


Edinburgh Council says it does not expect to green light any new affordable homes for at least the next year, after £200m was slashed from the Scottish Government’s housing budget.

The cut will leave the capital £11m worse off – with anticipated central grant funding for affordable housebuilding reduced by nearly a quarter

[Ozyhibby]

SG to declare national housing emergency today. All very good but it needs to be accompanied by an actual plan to build more houses. And that means serious planning reform.


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[Andy Bee]

Average rent also up 8.8% in the year to £1223 per month, London at £2121 and Edinburgh at £1259. Wow

[Andy Bee]

Someone seems to have the completely opposite problem.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1790800146952782056

[Stairway 2 7]

Someone seems to have the completely opposite problem.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1790800146952782056

Too many homes so house prices fall. They have a demographic nightmare, the population halving to 750 million by 2100. Cities of 10 million going down to 5 with half of homes lying empty is mad

[marinello59]

SG to declare national housing emergency today. All very good but it needs to be accompanied by an actual plan to build more houses. And that means serious planning reform.


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They called it six months after refusing to do so, after cutting nearly £200 from the affordable housing budget and only when they realised they may lose a vote in Holyrood as Labour pushed for it. That doesn’t look like the actions of a Government acting with genuine urgency. No wonder people are so cynical about the priorities of politicians.

[Ozyhibby]

They called it six months after refusing to do so, after cutting nearly £200 from the affordable housing budget and only when they realised they may lose a vote in Holyrood as Labour pushed for it. That doesn’t look like the actions of a Government acting with genuine urgency. No wonder people are so cynical about the priorities of politicians.

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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We get 30% more than England to spend surely we cab find the money if its an emergency, that is what creating a budget is.

Calling a housing emergency is just words if it isn't followed with action. SNP have previously called a climate emergency then cut climate targets, called a drug deaths emergency then had the highest drug deaths in Europe still 3 years later. I don't think Labour will do anything in any meaningful way on housing either in fact they are talking about introducing caps so expect rents to rocket in England like it did here

[marinello59]

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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Yet Yousaf found another £80 million the day it became obvious that his job was under threat? Again, no wonder people are cynical about our politicians.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good article. It's crazy we don't have a massive public house building program during a housing emergency

110,000 families in Scotland on a waiting list for a social rented house. Scot gov promise 77,000 new social rental houses in Scotland… by 2032.

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-housing-policy-is-nuts/

Scotland’s housing policy is nuts

Robin McAlpine

[GlesgaeHibby]

The capital budget at Westminster was cut and that forced the same levels of cuts on the SG. It’s a direct consequence. If the SG were to mitigate this then they would either need to put up taxes or cut from education or health. At some point, you just can’t mitigate every single cut imposed on us.


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The SG's capital budget was cut by 7.1% in real terms, yet the housing budget was cut by 27% in real terms. It was a political choice by the SNP to cut the housing budget so significantly.

https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2024/1/4/d19ce079-c10b-4a0f-b526-448852face3e#ec1b3806-2443-4424-b281-22a926ad7f0c.dita

[Ozyhibby]

Good article. It's crazy we don't have a massive public house building program during a housing emergency

110,000 families in Scotland on a waiting list for a social rented house. Scot gov promise 77,000 new social rental houses in Scotland… by 2032.

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-housing-policy-is-nuts/

Scotland’s housing policy is nuts

Robin McAlpine

Good article mostly. The bit about borrowing to invest in housing is just common sense. What I’m not sure about is if the SG is allowed to do this?


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[Andy Bee]

Good article mostly. The bit about borrowing to invest in housing is just common sense. What I’m not sure about is if the SG is allowed to do this?


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I don't think the SG could borrow the amounts needed here but can't the local councils do it?

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1791412160532197606?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I’m a bit of a broken record on this but it does now appear that the problems are starting to be noticed by the media and politicians. We are still some way from the politicians offering proper solutions but it’s a start.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1791412160532197606?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I’m a bit of a broken record on this but it does now appear that the problems are starting to be noticed by the media and politicians. We are still some way from the politicians offering proper solutions but it’s a start.


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That's horrifying. Uk the home of homelessness since 2010, tories should put that on the side of a bus

[danhibees1875]

I used to (co)rent a flat in bruntsfield when I was a student - £1,300 for a 4 bed. £325 each. (2011)

Inflationary increase would make it £1,850. It's back on the marke for £3,200 - £800 a head.

I left a wall clock there accidentally and it's still there in the photos so it's not had a drastic makeover in that time.

[Ozyhibby]

I used to (co)rent a flat in bruntsfield when I was a student - £1,300 for a 4 bed. £325 each. (2011)

Inflationary increase would make it £1,850. It's back on the marke for £3,200 - £800 a head.

I left a wall clock there accidentally and it's still there in the photos so it's not had a drastic makeover in that time.

The rent cap has rocketed rent over the last year. The reality is there is a massive shortage of supply. UK govt tax policy not helping either. There are a lack of new landlords willing to buy properties off plan which is curtailing new developments.
Housing policy in this country is designed to create a shortage.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c9d724fe-858b-4eec-b7ba-ebcf1019f9ee?shareToken=bc3f3284d659aa5eb4b2c531ba f5b2bb
More on the harm caused to renters from the rent cap. A disastrous policy.


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[superfurryhibby]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c9d724fe-858b-4eec-b7ba-ebcf1019f9ee?shareToken=bc3f3284d659aa5eb4b2c531ba f5b2bb
More on the harm caused to renters from the rent cap. A disastrous policy.


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"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/livingrent/pages/1780/attachments/original/1715964750/Organisational_response_Parliament_consultation_%2 81%29.pdf?1715964750

[Ozyhibby]

"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/livingrent/pages/1780/attachments/original/1715964750/Organisational_response_Parliament_consultation_%2 81%29.pdf?1715964750

This is always a problem with rent caps though and the longer they last, the worse the problem gets. They protect older existing Scottish tenants at the expense of younger Scot’s and immigrants to Scotland. How is that fair?
Price fixing never works and always leads to the collapse of supply, whether it’s houses, tractors, pints of milk or carrots. It doesn’t matter the product, once the price you can charge drops below the price of producing then people naturally stop supplying.
That’s why house building projects are currently being cancelled or put on hold in Scotland.
This thread has been running a long time and in all that time, with many requests made, nobody has posted an example of a successful rent cap policy from anywhere in the world? Wonder why that is?


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[Andy Bee]

The rent cap has rocketed rent over the last year. The reality is there is a massive shortage of supply. UK govt tax policy not helping either. There are a lack of new landlords willing to buy properties off plan which is curtailing new developments.
Housing policy in this country is designed to create a shortage.


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I know a letting agent who was given 10 brand new flats from one of his existing clients to manage, they're foreign and he's never met them. I'm not sure if foreign investors pay the same Landlords LBT or not but obviously they don't pay the same income tax I wouldn't of thought.

[Ozyhibby]

"Paul McLennan, the housing minister, said: “These statistics for Scotland are based predominantly on newly advertised rents and do not take into account in-tenancy rent increases, which were initially frozen and then kept at 3 per cent in most cases while our emergency legislation was in place.

“They do not represent the whole private rented sector in Scotland, so are not suitable for making like-for-like comparisons with other parts of the UK.”


Importantly this data is based on advertised rents or new market rents, which
only cover about 35% of the private renters population (Scottish Household
survey 2022, 2019). A more accurate understand of rent increases throughout
both new and existing properties would take into account new market rent
increase (+14.3%) as well as the rent cap (3%) and find an average increase of
7.6% increase

● According to the Office of National Statistics, in the last 12 months to
December 2023, average rents increased by 8.8% in England, 9% in Wales and
10.9% in Scotland. Again, only new market rents were considered in Scotland
when both new market rents and existing rents were measured elsewhere.
This leads to a picture of over inflated rents in Scotland
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/livingrent/pages/1780/attachments/original/1715964750/Organisational_response_Parliament_consultation_%2 81%29.pdf?1715964750

Btw, I work in this industry and I’m seeing rent rises higher than the figures above. They have started to ease slightly now that the cap is mostly gone but a lot of damage has been done. It’s a real shame for tenants.


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[Ozyhibby]

I know a letting agent who was given 10 brand new flats from one of his existing clients to manage, they're foreign and he's never met them. I'm not sure if foreign investors pay the same Landlords LBT or not but obviously they don't pay the same income tax I wouldn't of thought.

They will pay LBTT but not income tax if they are not resident here.
Think of it positively in that their commitment to buy 10 flats, probably off plan, may have been what got the project green lit by the banks in the first place.


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[superfurryhibby]

Btw, I work in this industry and I’m seeing rent rises higher than the figures above. They have started to ease slightly now that the cap is mostly gone but a lot of damage has been done. It’s a real shame for tenants.


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Of course you do, and you also know better than the Office of National Statistics.

I agree, it is shame for the tenants.

[superfurryhibby]

For anyone concerned about rent rises, poor quality rented accommodation and any other tenancy issues, there is support out there.

Living Rent have been doing fantastic work at local and national level.

https://www.livingrent.org/the_peoples_rent_freeze

[Andy Bee]

A bit of a read but an action plan put forward by former housing minister Alex Neil. Certainly interesting, whether you agree if it's possible or not is debatable but it's at least a step forward from just declaring an emergency.

https://www.yesthink.scot/p/former-housing-minister-launches

[Ozyhibby]

A bit of a read but an action plan put forward by former housing minister Alex Neil. Certainly interesting, whether you agree if it's possible or not is debatable but it's at least a step forward from just declaring an emergency.

https://www.yesthink.scot/p/former-housing-minister-launches

One of the best articles I’ve read from a politician on the issue. There is very little to disagree on in there? What is needed now is political will.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24363542.thousands-new-houses-near-stirling-coming-much-sooner/


Another Springfield village of 3000 homes near Stirling. IMHO Springfield are a good developer as they provide the infrastructure for shops, offices and small businesses within their departments.