English National League Standards

[Nitten]

Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.

[EGL2000]

Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.


Money talks, the top teams/players in that league are paid 2/3k a week. Teams like Arbroath can't get anywhere near that.

[WeeRussell]

No offence to the OP but seems very much like a case of turning “there’s a very exciting one-off 4-4 game on just now” into a few paragraphs of knocking Scottish football.

[Sir David Gray]

It helps when a lot of the players in the National League will be paid more than any player in Scotland outside of the Premiership.

[Lancs Harp]

Im a self confessed football addict and watch a huge variety of games from leagues across the world. Its safe to say I see good games and crap games in all the leagues I watch.
Has been a cracker this Wrexham Grimsby game. Going into extra time now.

[HFC93]

Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.

Money.

[RyeSloan]

Money talks, the top teams/players in that league are paid 2/3k a week. Teams like Arbroath can't get anywhere near that.

Got to be more than that though as otherwise players form that league and the couple would walk into most Scottish teams…as we know that’s not the case.

As the OP says some of the football is good to watch and maybe it’s more about style and desire to play a certain way rather than just ‘they pay players more so they are better’.

[Nitten]

No offence to the OP but seems very much like a case of turning “there’s a very exciting one-off 4-4 game on just now” into a few paragraphs of knocking Scottish football.

Disagree, I’m not knocking Scottish Football, merely comparing the quality of football on display in our 2nd top division compared to non league teams. I accept that money does count but irrespective of budget hoofball is certainly far more prevalent up here compared to games I have seen , which is more than a few BTW.

[Northern Hibby]

Went to see Derby Millwall couple of seasons ago it was crap.

[DC_Hibs]

Some comparison!!

Wrexham and Stockport have taken players from English league one teams with Wrexham on a promotion bonus pot of 250k.

Meanwhile Arbroath……

[NAE NOOKIE]

Cant say I've seen a lot of English non league football ... well none actually :greengrin

Even without the comparison I have to say that even though it was quite exciting because of what was at stake and a decent atmosphere backing it up, the Kilmarnock v Arbroath match that decided the league was pretty bloody brutal, the ball barely touched the ground and I remember remarking to my extremely disinterested partner that it was a wonder the bloody thing hadn't sprouted wings it spent so long in the air.

On the other side of that I can't say I saw much hoofball in the premiership last season, pretty well every team that came to Easter Road kept the ball on the deck.

[MKHIBEE]

I spent 6 seasons watching watching the 5th tier, non league football in England. It was a lesson in accepting mediocrity

[H18 SFR]

Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.

Went to Wrexham v Ayr in the challenge cup a couple of years ago (I live in Ayr). To say that Wrexham were streets ahead would be really misleading.

[StarryPloughHSC]

great game to watch but the defending was lowland league level

[Michael]

I go to a lot of premier league and national league matches. PL standard is obviously very good and we rarely have players at Hibs at this level. National League standards are probably about the same as lower half Scottish Premiership/Top half of the Scottish Championship. I quite like the National League games because it feels like watching Scottish football!

[brog]

I've watched many games at National level, and lower. My local team is Bromley. To compare them to any of the top tier in Scotland is IMO total nonsense. I think we're confusing a great game with great quality.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

This is a pick and choose debate. I don't see the relevance of comparing the Scottish Leagues to the English Ones.

[B.H.F.C]

League 2 play off final had quite a few players playing today who haven’t cut it up here. Murphy was underwhelming, at best, for us. James Wilson was crap at Aberdeen. Matty Longstaff couldn’t get a game for them this year and they’re brutal.

Their leagues are competitive, the quality is crap.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I go to a lot of premier league and national league matches. PL standard is obviously very good and we rarely have players at Hibs at this level. National League standards are probably about the same as lower half Scottish Premiership/Top half of the Scottish Championship. I quite like the National League games because it feels like watching Scottish football!

Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break :faf:

[StarryPloughHSC]

Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break :faf:

was thinking that myself mate haha falkirk and dunfermilne are bigger than wrexham and grimsby ffs

[Michael]

Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break :faf:

For what it's worth I don't think there's that much difference across the English divisions under championship. I think we're usually better than league 1 level, but I think a lot of the national league players could be mediocre lower Scottish Premiership players.

Maybe I'm talking nonsense, but just my feelings from watching the games.

[Edina Street]

Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.

[Tommy75]

I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.

[brog]

Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.

Having lived in London for over 40 years I think you're spot on.

[Jones28]

Went to see Grimsby regularly when they were in the national league and they were ****ing crap.

[Nitten]

I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.

The very point I was trying to make…..I’m not trying to knock Hibs or Scottish Football in general, rather Campbell and McInnes have shown no desire to actually play football and a lot of teams I might just have been lucky to watch, have been coached to get it down and pass.
it doesn’t really matter what budget you have as a coach, you either want to have a passing style or not.

[brog]

I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.

I've been playing, coaching and refereeing football in Greater London area for over 40 years. Trust me, the fundamentals are identical to those being coached in Scotland.

[BILLYHIBS]

English lower leagues ?

I give you Tom James and raise you Josh Vela ! 😀

[Baader]

Seen plenty of lower league and non league games down here. The standard of League 2 or even League 1 isn't better than top flight Scottish. No way. The standard of non league English football isn't great. Not better than Scottish Championship.

[Glory Lurker]

Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.

Yip.

[Hermit Crab]

Wrexham were in involved in a game v Dover Athletic this season who were relegated with only 1 point on the board after being deducted 12 points for failing to fulfil last seasons fixtures, they barely had a squad this season as well. It finished Wrexham 6-5 Dover and Dover were leading 4-5 going into stoppage time. When your luck is down its down eh, I'm sure I read that Dover never brought any travelling fans to that game either.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1JwGQldSWk

[Keith_M]

It does sound like the OP has judged the standard of that league based on one game.

[BILLYHIBS]

Started to fear for us they way Hecky lined us up against Celtic in the Cup at Easter Road :confused:

[StarryPloughHSC]

Started to fear for us they way Hecky lined us up against Celtic in the Cup at Easter Road :confused:

and look how well hes done down south haha thats my only fear with johnson atm hopefully doesnt come up here with the same attitude as hecky cause the way they weegies are playing the now we could be in for some cricket score defeats lol hopefully no though

[stu in nottingham]

I'e attended National League games regularly for the past three seasons at Notts County's Meadow Lane. After they got relegated from League 2 me and my pal who goes questioned whether we wanted to watch that level of football, envisaging constant long ball stuff with huge strikers and centre backs predominant. I can only speak as I find and whilst that is certainly a part of it there is some decent football played as well. We were both pleasantly surprised at the relative quality and agreed that there really wasn't much difference in quality between League 2 and National League in general.

There are certainly a good few National League teams I've seen that are in my opinion better than League 2 sides I've watched. Part of that may be due to the fact that it's insanely difficult to get promoted from the National Leage with only one automatic promotion spot. I think that provides for quite a few 'bigger' club, ex-Football League as an example, lining up for a few years to escape from it. The National League is like a booby trap once sunken into it.

Notts have some good and skilled players and consistently play 'good' passing football, often to their detriment as their long-suffering fans will attest who would often like a more direct, physical style and see that as more likely to win promotion.

I think it's hard to make comparisons between English and Scottish football in general and by focusing on individuals who've played both sides of the border in particular. An example might be someone like former Notts player Kristian Dennis who couldn't get into Notts' side but was scooped up by St Mirren and played 30 games in the SPFL. I think it tells us little, apart from a reference to the relative wages players earn and the markets in which their teams operate. I suppose, if pushed, I'd say there would be quite a few National League sides who might be competitive in the Scottish Championship. There'd be a few also who would struggle. There is quite a difference between the Stockports and Wrexhams and the now relegated Dover and Kings Lynn in terms of club infrastructure, crowds and playing quality on the pitch.

[Hibbyradge]

I've been to see York City a few times this season. They've just won the play off to gain promotion to the National League.

They were awful every time I went and I don't remember seeing their keeper give the ball to a defender once!

He just hammers it straight up the park and let's them get on with it. They'll need to invest in some footballers if they want to stay up and eventually try to get back into the league.

[StarryPloughHSC]

I'e attended National League games regularly for the past three seasons at Notts County's Meadow Lane. After they got relegated from League 2 me and my pal who goes questioned whether we wanted to watch that level of football, envisaging constant long ball stuff with huge strikers and centre backs predominant. I can only speak as I find and whilst that is certainly a part of it there is some decent football played as well. We were both pleasantly surprised at the relative quality and agreed that there really wasn't much difference in quality between League 2 and National League in general.

There are certainly a good few National League teams I've seen that are in my opinion better than League 2 sides I've watched. Part of that may be due to the fact that it's insanely difficult to get promoted from the National Leage with only one automatic promotion spot. I think that provides for quite a few 'bigger' club, ex-Football League as an example, lining up for a few years to escape from it. The National League is like a booby trap once sunken into it.

Notts have some good and skilled players and consistently play 'good' passing football, often to their detriment as their long-suffering fans will attest who would often like a more direct, physical style and see that as more likely to win promotion.

I think it's hard to make comparisons between English and Scottish football in general and by focusing on individuals who've played both sides of the border in particular. An example might be someone like former Notts player Kristian Dennis who couldn't get into Notts' side but was scooped up by St Mirren and played 30 games in the SPFL. I think it tells us little, apart from a reference to the relative wages players earn and the markets in which their teams operate. I suppose, if pushed, I'd say there would be quite a few National League sides who might be competitive in the Scottish Championship. There'd be a few also who would struggle. There is quite a difference between the Stockports and Wrexhams and the now relegated Dover and Kings Lynn in terms of club infrastructure, crowds and playing quality on the pitch.

its the first time this weekend ive ever watched non league in england and the standard of football has been very decent mate enjoyed both semi finals more than that soulless snoozefest CL final last night will be keeping an eye on the national league next season

[WeeRussell]

The very point I was trying to make…..I’m not trying to knock Hibs or Scottish Football in general, rather Campbell and McInnes have shown no desire to actually play football and a lot of teams I might just have been lucky to watch, have been coached to get it down and pass.
it doesn’t really matter what budget you have as a coach, you either want to have a passing style or not.

I think it will be luck, Nitten. As teams from amateur level all the way to the top vary in styles in both England and Scotland.

[Hibbyradge]

its the first time this weekend ive ever watched non league in england and the standard of football has been very decent mate enjoyed both semi finals more than that soulless snoozefest CL final last night will be keeping an eye on the national league next season

I really enjoyed the CL final and there was nothing soulless about it, imo.

The league below League 2 might produce some decent games, but the one below that is woeful.

[cameronw-hfc]

I'd say Celtic and Rangers are good enough to be lower Prem teams, the rest of the SPL is more akin to English Champ imo. The Scottish champ at the top pushes English L1 bottom sides, but the leagues from there and down up here aren't close to even national league level imo.

[The dalmeny]

(I include youth games I have watched as well).

at what level

[StarryPloughHSC]

I really enjoyed the CL final and there was nothing soulless about it, imo.

The league below League 2 might produce some decent games, but the one below that is woeful.

each to their own mate at the end of the day its night ae