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  1. #1

    English National League Standards

    Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
    Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.


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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitten View Post
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    Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
    Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.

    Money talks, the top teams/players in that league are paid 2/3k a week. Teams like Arbroath can't get anywhere near that.

  4. #3
    No offence to the OP but seems very much like a case of turning “there’s a very exciting one-off 4-4 game on just now” into a few paragraphs of knocking Scottish football.

  5. #4
    It helps when a lot of the players in the National League will be paid more than any player in Scotland outside of the Premiership.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

    21.05.2016

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    @hibs.net private member Lancs Harp's Avatar
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    Im a self confessed football addict and watch a huge variety of games from leagues across the world. Its safe to say I see good games and crap games in all the leagues I watch.
    Has been a cracker this Wrexham Grimsby game. Going into extra time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitten View Post
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    Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
    Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.
    Money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGL2000 View Post
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    Money talks, the top teams/players in that league are paid 2/3k a week. Teams like Arbroath can't get anywhere near that.
    Got to be more than that though as otherwise players form that league and the couple would walk into most Scottish teams…as we know that’s not the case.

    As the OP says some of the football is good to watch and maybe it’s more about style and desire to play a certain way rather than just ‘they pay players more so they are better’.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    No offence to the OP but seems very much like a case of turning “there’s a very exciting one-off 4-4 game on just now” into a few paragraphs of knocking Scottish football.
    Disagree, I’m not knocking Scottish Football, merely comparing the quality of football on display in our 2nd top division compared to non league teams. I accept that money does count but irrespective of budget hoofball is certainly far more prevalent up here compared to games I have seen , which is more than a few BTW.

  10. #9
    Testimonial Due Northern Hibby's Avatar
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    Went to see Derby Millwall couple of seasons ago it was crap.

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    Some comparison!!

    Wrexham and Stockport have taken players from English league one teams with Wrexham on a promotion bonus pot of 250k.

    Meanwhile Arbroath……

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Cant say I've seen a lot of English non league football ... well none actually

    Even without the comparison I have to say that even though it was quite exciting because of what was at stake and a decent atmosphere backing it up, the Kilmarnock v Arbroath match that decided the league was pretty bloody brutal, the ball barely touched the ground and I remember remarking to my extremely disinterested partner that it was a wonder the bloody thing hadn't sprouted wings it spent so long in the air.

    On the other side of that I can't say I saw much hoofball in the premiership last season, pretty well every team that came to Easter Road kept the ball on the deck.

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    I spent 6 seasons watching watching the 5th tier, non league football in England. It was a lesson in accepting mediocrity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitten View Post
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    Compared to the absolute hoofball witnesses in our domestic Championship in particular, the quality of football delivered from these lower league teams is of a standard far superior to the Scottish product.
    Having viewed nearly every Friday night Championship games, the quality or lack of it displayed by Arbroath and Kilmarnock in particular was brutal. IMHO the quality of coaching and acceptance of hoofball is poor in comparison with National League games. Admittedly I have not seen a huge amount of games but those I have have been entertaining with most teams at least trying to play football.The Wrexham v Grimsby game has been outstanding.
    Went to Wrexham v Ayr in the challenge cup a couple of years ago (I live in Ayr). To say that Wrexham were streets ahead would be really misleading.

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    great game to watch but the defending was lowland league level

  16. #15
    I go to a lot of premier league and national league matches. PL standard is obviously very good and we rarely have players at Hibs at this level. National League standards are probably about the same as lower half Scottish Premiership/Top half of the Scottish Championship. I quite like the National League games because it feels like watching Scottish football!

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    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    I've watched many games at National level, and lower. My local team is Bromley. To compare them to any of the top tier in Scotland is IMO total nonsense. I think we're confusing a great game with great quality.

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    @hibs.net private member NORTHERNHIBBY's Avatar
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    This is a pick and choose debate. I don't see the relevance of comparing the Scottish Leagues to the English Ones.

  19. #18
    League 2 play off final had quite a few players playing today who haven’t cut it up here. Murphy was underwhelming, at best, for us. James Wilson was crap at Aberdeen. Matty Longstaff couldn’t get a game for them this year and they’re brutal.

    Their leagues are competitive, the quality is crap.

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
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    I go to a lot of premier league and national league matches. PL standard is obviously very good and we rarely have players at Hibs at this level. National League standards are probably about the same as lower half Scottish Premiership/Top half of the Scottish Championship. I quite like the National League games because it feels like watching Scottish football!
    Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break
    was thinking that myself mate haha falkirk and dunfermilne are bigger than wrexham and grimsby ffs

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Well at the moment mate Hibs are lower half of the Scottish premiership as are Aberdeen, are you saying the 5th tier of English football is our level. FFS I'm prepared to accept folk who say some of our teams are lower EFL championship / upper end division one, but 5th tier English football, geeza bloody break
    For what it's worth I don't think there's that much difference across the English divisions under championship. I think we're usually better than league 1 level, but I think a lot of the national league players could be mediocre lower Scottish Premiership players.

    Maybe I'm talking nonsense, but just my feelings from watching the games.

  23. #22
    Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.
    Last edited by Edina Street; 28-05-2022 at 06:25 PM.

  24. #23
    First Team Breakthrough Tommy75's Avatar
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    I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edina Street View Post
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    Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.
    Having lived in London for over 40 years I think you're spot on.

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    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
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    Went to see Grimsby regularly when they were in the national league and they were ****ing crap.
    "...when Hibs won the Scottish Cup final and that celebration, Sunshine on Leith? I don’t think there’s a better football celebration ever in the game.”

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  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy75 View Post
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    I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.
    The very point I was trying to make…..I’m not trying to knock Hibs or Scottish Football in general, rather Campbell and McInnes have shown no desire to actually play football and a lot of teams I might just have been lucky to watch, have been coached to get it down and pass.
    it doesn’t really matter what budget you have as a coach, you either want to have a passing style or not.

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy75 View Post
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    I don't think it is just down to money. Teams and coaches in England are more likely to try and get their teams to play football. Obviously that is easier with better, higher paid players, but the vast majority of teams in Scotland I have watched have shown absolutely no desire to get the ball down and at least try and play (I include youth games I have watched as well). Different culture I guess.
    I've been playing, coaching and refereeing football in Greater London area for over 40 years. Trust me, the fundamentals are identical to those being coached in Scotland.

  29. #28
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    English lower leagues ?

    I give you Tom James and raise you Josh Vela ! 😀

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member Baader's Avatar
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    Seen plenty of lower league and non league games down here. The standard of League 2 or even League 1 isn't better than top flight Scottish. No way. The standard of non league English football isn't great. Not better than Scottish Championship.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edina Street View Post
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    Paul Heckingbottom has proven he is a good manager. But I think one of the biggest mistakes he made as an Englishman, that ultimately got him sacked, was disrespecting and underestimating the Scottish game by seemingly thinking that just about any player from the English league one or two could be an automatic success in a Hibernian team. Paul Heckingbottom would have been a better manager for Hibs if he had came in to the Hibernian set up believing that Hibernian are at least the equivalent of an English championship side. His signings might have been better.
    Yip.

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