Nhs

[Allant1981]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1609864817300639746?s=46&t=JkJflG1sQT1aNiSdzLJVOw

This is an interesting thread. Put it in here as wasn’t sure it merited its own thread and ties into NHS anyway.


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Interesting point, my wife stopped working for a while(she is not nhs but I am) as childcare costs and her travelling etc meant she was working for almost nothing. Was only worth her while working when the youngest went to nursery

[Santa Cruz]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1609864817300639746?s=46&t=JkJflG1sQT1aNiSdzLJVOw

This is an interesting thread. Put it in here as wasn’t sure it merited its own thread and ties into NHS anyway.


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It's more to do with social mobility than just a single issue. Affordable childcare to allow parents to work is one important factor, but there are many more issues to consider imo. Explains a bit about it in this link.

https://www.oecd.org/stories/social-mobility#3

Also had a quick shifty at vacancies in the third sector. There are so many ways people help reduce the workload of the NHS by giving their own time for free, saves Gov's billions of pounds each year. Can't remember the exact figure but think there is something like a couple of hundred thousand citizens who work in the third sector in Scotland.

https://www.volunteeredinburgh.org.uk/volunteer/find-opportunities/?cpage=1

[Paul1642]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1609864817300639746?s=46&t=JkJflG1sQT1aNiSdzLJVOw

This is an interesting thread. Put it in here as wasn’t sure it merited its own thread and ties into NHS anyway.


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In Scotland the 1140 free hours for 3 year old plus is great although has the same issues with school holidays as parent of older children face.

For younger kids maybe part of the issue is the state pension age being 66. If Grandparents have a child aged 30, and that child then has a child aged 30, the grandkid is aged 6 and already at school by the time the grandparent retires and could then realistically help out a lot more with childcare.

Maybe a scheme could be put in place to allow early receipt of state pension in return for providing childcare for their children who work and have a child aged under 3? It would be very open to abuse I suppose (and would need to be time limited, perhaps as a benefit rather than state pension as you could realistically be a grandparent at 40) but would be a real lifeline to family’s who can neither afford childcare yet can’t afford to be out of work.

[Ozyhibby]

In Scotland the 1140 free hours for 3 year old plus is great although has the same issues with school holidays as parent of older children face.

For younger kids maybe part of the issue is the state pension age being 66. If Grandparents have a child aged 30, and that child then has a child aged 30, the grandkid is aged 6 and already at school by the time the grandparent retires and could then realistically help out a lot more with childcare.

Maybe a scheme could be put in place to allow early receipt of state pension in return for providing childcare for their children who work and have a child aged under 3? It would be very open to abuse I suppose (and would need to be time limited, perhaps as a benefit rather than state pension as you could realistically be a grandparent at 40) but would be a real lifeline to family’s who can neither afford childcare yet can’t afford to be out of work.

We are trying keep people in the workforce though? The solution to a lot of Scotlands demographic problems is more immigration and more childcare.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321788640_762918091832316_6993561488764752710_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jZFnlqYc_q4AX-pr_M9&_nc_oc=AQkpHsX8qN7ZClWoTnBCL0oqOLWaE7e7mO2ojq9TZGO BW9rRKraBnaUbNF117Ve8-x0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBD0wOokQ6rBCgFCgymYx3GuKfRMo9KqXDi5avt9XAH 0g&oe=63B84534

[Kato]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321788640_762918091832316_6993561488764752710_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jZFnlqYc_q4AX-pr_M9&_nc_oc=AQkpHsX8qN7ZClWoTnBCL0oqOLWaE7e7mO2ojq9TZGO BW9rRKraBnaUbNF117Ve8-x0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBD0wOokQ6rBCgFCgymYx3GuKfRMo9KqXDi5avt9XAH 0g&oe=63B84534Sneaks, liars and carpetbaggers.

Does anyone not know this yet?

Harold MacMillan was a dinosaur of ancient proportions by the early 80's but even he saw the folly of the nation not owning vital infrastructure. They are the fabric of a country and allowing the highest bidder to own and run them affects its security. Dosh though.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/peteneville65/status/1609907691912298497?s=46&t=t2Trl9UqqjP5dh4M-p2HUg

Great thread explaining the problems in the nhs.


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[Smartie]

I was at Uni from 1995 to the early part of this century studying a healthcare related degree.

Dundee Uni (where I studied) does have a good reputation for the degree that I studied, and the demographic shift that was going on was very much drummed into us at that time, as well as what we should expect going forward as a consequence of that.

I just find it astonishing that we find ourselves where we do, given we've known about this ticking time bomb for so long.

We have an ageing population. Circumstance (covid) hasn't helped, we've made certain poor decisions (Brexit, electing Tory Governments in perpetuity) whilst trying to live in denial about the situation.

I just wish I had an answer.

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-news-agents/id1640878689?i=1000592162163

A horrible listen.


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[neil7908]

https://twitter.com/peteneville65/status/1609907691912298497?s=46&t=t2Trl9UqqjP5dh4M-p2HUg

Great thread explaining the problems in the nhs.


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Thanks for sharing. This was one of the key reasons I was so annoyed at Starmer's talk of more nurses and doctors in his big announcement a few weeks ago on Labour's plan for the NHS.

They can't fill the current vacancies and he doesn't want to reverse Brexit or increase immigration from other means or to give inflation linked pay rises. So where will these extra staff come from?

[Ozyhibby]

Thanks for sharing. This was one of the key reasons I was so annoyed at Starmer's talk of more nurses and doctors in his big announcement a few weeks ago on Labour's plan for the NHS.

They can't fill the current vacancies and he doesn't want to reverse Brexit or increase immigration from other means or to give inflation linked pay rises. So where will these extra staff come from?

If supply fall short of demand then the price has to rise. Basic economics. If the won’t increase immigration then wages will have to rise to tempt people out of other jobs and into healthcare. There will be other costs of that as well though. Increasing immigration to bring more young people into the UK is the actual solution but we can’t upset English brexit voters so it won’t happen.


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[Kato]

Tories deliberately making health services more expensive (and more profitable for their chums).

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/tory-links-of-health-agencies-exposed-as-hunt-lines-up-next-nhs-selloff-in-england/

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[grunt]

https://t.co/Nmmc3Hl0ql

"Be under no illusion: the hundreds of avoidable deaths in the NHS every week are the result of political decisions".

Vital piece on the political choices behind the current NHS crisis from Dr Rachel Clarke

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlyPy3CXgAAqhZ2?format=jpg&name=large

[grunt]

Seems like a great time to introduce a law allowing the UK Tory Government to fire striking nurses.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlzZCItWIAEBEQ5?format=jpg&name=medium

[Mibbes Aye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlyPy3CXgAAqhZ2?format=jpg&name=large


I'm guessing you are posting this to highlight a perceived flaw, which is fair enough. I certainly don't think the health care system in Scotland or the UK is in anything other than dire straits, and I think this is in part political but in part structural as well - systems and processes that encourage perverse outcomes etc.

My issue with this graph is that it there is nothing wrong with it, in itself. It merely shows the number of beds on a pro rata scale. There is an inference, which I think you are drawing, that this shows the UK in a poor light. This graph doesn't do that though.

If you look at the comparable nations - the nations around us at the 'bottom' - it is the Scandics and the Netherlands. The Dutch are particularly relevant because for a good many years now, it has been government policy, especially in Scotland but in the UK as well, to try and replicate lots of elements of the Dutch healthcare model. This is because the Dutch models are seen as efficient, economical and effective but also much more person-centred and much more focused on upstream activity and resourcing that reduces the need for hospital beds in the first place.

Ten years ago the agenda was very much about investment in social care, health inequalities and broader interventions to address the root causes of hospital admissions. These services were the early victims of austerity but even before that they had an uphill fight to gain investment against very powerful lobbying forces who wanted money going straight into the acute hospital sector. All this despite lofty rhetoric about being able to close wards and shift the money out to communities.

When it comes down to it, scoring 'low' on the table in your graph can as easily be a good thing as it could be a bad thing. I would say that ultimately, we should be aiming to be low if the other parts of the system are right, but we are so far away from that.

The target should be enough hospital beds for purely medical admissions only, plus a bit of flex built into the system.

A better measure is what is driving bed occupancy in the first place and also what the beds are being used for - for some of the countries on that graph, those beds wouldn't exist in the UK, they would be care home places.

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure if this really contributes to the debate but was on a night out tonight with my sister in law and she has worked in care sector since she left school over 20 year ago and she was telling me that she could leave tomorrow and work in Tesco for more money. The only reason she doesn’t is sense of duty and felling like she is a professional.
It’s no wonder we can’t staff the nhs when it’s like this.


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[Mibbes Aye]

https://t.co/Nmmc3Hl0ql

"Be under no illusion: the hundreds of avoidable deaths in the NHS every week are the result of political decisions".

Vital piece on the political choices behind the current NHS crisis from Dr Rachel Clarke

It's an interesting article, albeit two articles in one.

I tend to agree with her analysis about the narrative around deaths although I think she is rather courageous given that medics were throwing DNACPR notices around like confetti during the pandemic - the regulator in England identified several hundred cases where patients' human rights had been breached and as the expression goes, ...that's only the ones we know about".

Her three-pronged approach to solving issues is facile though. First up, she wants care homes to be block-booked to provide greater capacity. Issue one - that was already the case with a lot of care homes, that they held their vacancies for the placing authority. Second, it is unethical and a breach of human rights to simply move people to care homes arbitrarily to free up hospital beds. Third, if there are care homes with capacity to take new residents this is often because they are currently under operating restrictions - not enough staff to meet safe staffing levels; temporary ban on admissions die to poor grades from inspectors etc etc. And where does it stop - do you move someone two hundred miles from their original home bcause that's the nearest vacancy A hundred miles? Fifty miles?

Second up, she says we can "...mobilise an energency crisis force of volunteers to support patients at home after discharge". What planet is she on?
Where are all these volunteers going to come from? One assumes that if they are providing support at home then they need all the associated checks and training - PVG, moving and handling, basic first aid, adult protection. Who does that? Who regulates them? If they dont have that then they are just onlookers who the formal carers have to supervise, on top of everything else they are already doing.

And thirdly, medical pensions, which at least she probably is fit to talk to. It is a complicated issue I am happy to acknowledge, but essentially it seems to boil down to the fact that medic pensions were and are generous, 100% secure, inflation-proofed and with spousal and lump sum benefits as well as AVC scope. And of course many medics do private work as well, boosting their income/savings/pension. The trap as far as it goes seems to be a case of making the tax breaks less generous. So, it's about pounds not patients which I know sounds harsh but at the end of the day they have bills to pay, same as everyone else I suppose.

Her piece overall doesnt really stand up, which is unfortunate as she can claim some sort of informed perspective. Her grasp of what can be done undermines that somewhat.

[Mibbes Aye]

Not sure if this really contributes to the debate but was on a night out tonight with my sister in law and she has worked in care sector since she left school over 20 year ago and she was telling me that she could leave tomorrow and work in Tesco for more money. The only reason she doesn’t is sense of duty and felling like she is a professional.
It’s no wonder we can’t staff the nhs when it’s like this.


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It can be vastly rewarding and enriching work and I think that's right, it does and should feel like a profession or a vocation.

The flipside is that it can be very hard and demanding work physically, mentally and emotionally.

Overall it has nowhere near the status and recognition it deserves.

[James310]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2023/01/snp-scottish-nhs-crisis-humza-yousaf

[Allant1981]

Not sure if this really contributes to the debate but was on a night out tonight with my sister in law and she has worked in care sector since she left school over 20 year ago and she was telling me that she could leave tomorrow and work in Tesco for more money. The only reason she doesn’t is sense of duty and felling like she is a professional.
It’s no wonder we can’t staff the nhs when it’s like this.


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Tesco must be paying some decent wages now, they only put up their minimum wage to £10.10 this year which is the same as a bottom of band 2 in the nhs(before the new pay rise goes in and someone with 20 years service is obviously not the bottom of a band)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2023/01/snp-scottish-nhs-crisis-humza-yousaf

Can’t read the article but to be fair to Humza, he does appear to be running the best run NHS in the UK.


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[grunt]

Her three-pronged approach to solving issues is facile though. This reminds me of endless meetings I used to sit through, where whenever someone suggested a potential solution, there was always this one person who sat in the corner and said, "that'll never work". They never offered any alternative solution, just soul destroying negative criticism.


Her piece overall doesnt really stand up, which is unfortunate as she can claim some sort of informed perspective. Her grasp of what can be done undermines that somewhat.Do you do condescending in some professional capacity, or is it just a hobby with you?

[James310]

Can’t read the article but to be fair to Humza, he does appear to be running the best run NHS in the UK.


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I am not sure what basis you make that assertion on?

Back in 1994, Harry Redknapp was in charge of a West Ham side playing against Oxford United in a pre-season friendly. A heavily tattooed fan spent the first half screaming abuse at the West Ham players, and so Redknapp told the man “let’s see if you can play as good as you talk”, sent him away to get stripped and put him on for the second half.

At times, it feels like Nicola Sturgeon has done an ‘Arry with the Scottish NHS. Humza Yousaf, the beleaguered Scottish Health Secretary, might have been plucked randomly from a crowd. As the health crisis deepens and Yousaf’s floundering becomes ever-more apparent, he gives every impression of wishing he was back there.

Yousaf, 37, has long been a puzzle to politics watchers. He was appointed to his current post despite an undistinguished track record as a junior minister at transport and then as justice secretary, where his main claim to fame was introducing the farcical Hate Crime Bill. He has spent most of his time in ministerial office being asked by opposition politicians to resign from it – and not because they view him as an electoral danger.

As Scots watch their NHS blow up like the Hindenburg, Yousaf, never much of an orator in the first place, seems to be losing the ability to speak at all. From the brace position he has now adopted – “save yourself” has always appeared to be his motto – there emerges only the occasional whelp of “it’s just as bad in England!”

It’s not our fault” – if there is one phrase that sums up 15 years of SNP rule, it is this. Never has a government been so passionately committed to body-swerving responsibility and accountability, to leap-frogging the consequences of its own actions. Holyrood has been left in suspended juvenilia by the Nationalists’ inability or unwillingness to face up to reality. Sadly, this stroppy teen approach, this insistence that someone else must always be to blame, has infected Yes voters as a whole. It is an outlook that strips Scotland of agency and dignity.

The stretched, stressed workers in the NHS deserve better leadership, as do the patients who are waiting ever longer for treatment. It is indeed true that health services across the UK are at breaking point, and for much the same reasons – Covid, flu, reduced staffing levels, bed-blocking, etc – but the Scottish NHS is the SNP’s responsibility, and no one else’s. It was up to them to do in advance what they could to mitigate this winter’s crisis – after all, it was blindingly obviously it was going to happen – and it’s now up to them to deal with it in real time. Perhaps, if the First Minister hadn’t spent recent months working obsessively on her latest cunning plan to achieve independence, she might instead have stepped in and lifted some of the weight from her hapless Health Secretary before he came to resemble a man squashed by a falling piano.

The Nationalist approach to public services has always been to take the laziest route – to lavish money on them, and to lambast Westminster for not sending even more money to lavish further. This has never been accompanied by necessary reform and modernisation – in education as well as health – because the SNP has been unwilling to risk its popularity by asking state workers to change their working practices and outmoded habits. It has never been important to the Nats that they govern well, only that they are thought by Scottish voters to govern better than whoever is in power at Westminster. Perception and rhetoric have always been what matter to them above fact and delivery: just catch a senior Scottish civil servant in an unguarded moment and you’ll hear the truth.

After 15 years, the inevitable result of this relentless prioritisation of perception above fact is that Scotland’s public services are rotting. They have been starved of the tough love that is any government’s basic job. The systems in which workers such as teachers, doctors and nurses are asked to operate are unfit for purpose, and fall far behind international best practice – in the highest-performing countries, hard conversations between the state and its employees are always being had and resolved, and compromises reached to ensure the outcome is what’s best for the pupil or patient, rather than the politician. Scotland is decades behind, due to the deliberate intellectual impoverishment of our national debate and leadership.

We seemingly will not wake up to this neglect because the SNP’s greatest trick of all has been the secret behind all magic: diversion. As long as Westminster can be blamed for all bad things, and as long as all sorts of prospective wonders can be cooked up for an independent Scotland, it is easier for the voters to simply look past the uncomfortable truth, which is that the devolved government you elect will deliver the public services you deserve.

[Ozyhibby]

Tesco must be paying some decent wages now, they only put up their minimum wage to £10.10 this year which is the same as a bottom of band 2 in the nhs(before the new pay rise goes in and someone with 20 years service is obviously not the bottom of a band)

Apologies, she doesn’t work in the nhs, she works in a care home.


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[Allant1981]

Apologies, she doesn’t work in the nhs, she works in a care home.


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Take my hat off to care home staff,not a job I think I could do

[grunt]

We seemingly will not wake up to this neglect because the SNP’s greatest trick of all has been the secret behind all magic: diversion.
Ok, so I wondered who wrote this crazily unbalanced article on the Scottish NHS.

The answer is Chris Deerin. Now I'm not saying he's biased against the SNP and independence, but let's just have a look at his recent articles in the New Statesman ...


The SNP has no one but itself to blame for the Scottish NHS crisis


Will the SNP's tax raising gamble pay off?


Nicola Sturgeon has stoked needless division over trans rights


The SNP must end its addiction to centralisation


Ian Blackford's resignation shows Nicola Sturgeon's grip is slipping


The SNP can do better than Ian Blackford

Actually, I take that back. He is stupidly biased against the SNP, and every story is tilted to criticise them. He is in no way a balanced and fair reporter, and consequently I will not pay any attention whatsoever to his comments on the SNHS or Hamza Yousaf. It must hurt to wake up every day with all that bile inside him.

[James310]

Ok, so I wondered who wrote this crazily unbalanced article on the Scottish NHS.

The answer is Chris Deerin. Now I'm not saying he's biased against the SNP and independence, but let's just have a look at his recent articles in the New Statesman ...













Actually, I take that back. He is stupidly biased against the SNP, and every story is tilted to criticise them. He is in no way a balanced and fair reporter, and consequently I will not pay any attention whatsoever to his comments on the SNHS or Hamza Yousaf. It must hurt to wake up every day with all that bile inside him.

Opinions against the government will not be tolerated! How dare he put his personal opinions in writing! He should be writing glowing sycophant articles saying how wonderful everything is. 😂

You wake up and seem to post story after story about the Tory's, how are you different to him? Are you in fact not very similar....

[ronaldo7]

Ok, so I wondered who wrote this crazily unbalanced article on the Scottish NHS.

The answer is Chris Deerin. Now I'm not saying he's biased against the SNP and independence, but let's just have a look at his recent articles in the New Statesman ...













Actually, I take that back. He is stupidly biased against the SNP, and every story is tilted to criticise them. He is in no way a balanced and fair reporter, and consequently I will not pay any attention whatsoever to his comments on the SNHS or Hamza Yousaf. It must hurt to wake up every day with all that bile inside him.


Mr Deerin has been about a bit. :greengrin He's picked up a load of cash for doing the same thing over and over again. Something the same as Alex Massie. The regurgetants in the media are loved by many a wooden top.

Back on track though.

This piece in the Beeb by Nick Triggle takes us back a bit, but maybe gives us all a clue on how we got here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64190440

Of course, that is when a Conservative-led government came into power, although it is worth bearing in mind Labour were also signed up to this squeeze following the 2008 financial crash.

Labour - despite previous big increases in funding - were promising less for the health service than the Tories in the 2010 election, while in 2015 there was little between the two parties.

The government points to extra funding for the NHS during this parliament and topped up further in the Autumn Statement but a decade of austerity has come at a cost.

Bed numbers have fallen, while staffing shortages have increased.

[He's here!]

I had personal experience of how stretched things appear to have become during the week when I sustained a nasty bite at work from a child with ASN. Schools don't keep anything other than prescribed medication on the premises and I knew from past similar experiences (both my own and those of colleagues) that I needed to guard against infection. The local pharmacist took a look and said the wound required medical attention, with a tetanus jab likely to be required. I called my GP but they were fully booked and could only offer a phone consultation two hours later which was obviously not going to help, so I spent the next 40 minutes on the phone waiting to speak to NHS 24. They booked me an appointment at A&E, where the waiting area was as busy as ever. Fortunately after an hour I was diverted to the minor injuries unit where the wait time was relatively short and was attended to there.

The process took up most of the afternoon and early evening, whereas the last time something similar happened, pre-Covid, I was seen within half an hour by my local GP. What I would say, however, was that despite the obvious pressures they were under everyone who attended to me did so with ultimate, upbeat professionalism. Great people.

[Mibbes Aye]

Mr Deerin has been about a bit. :greengrin He's picked up a load of cash for doing the same thing over and over again. Something the same as Alex Massie. The regurgetants in the media are loved by many a wooden top.

Back on track though.

This piece in the Beeb by Nick Triggle takes us back a bit, but maybe gives us all a clue on how we got here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64190440

Of course, that is when a Conservative-led government came into power, although it is worth bearing in mind Labour were also signed up to this squeeze following the 2008 financial crash.

Labour - despite previous big increases in funding - were promising less for the health service than the Tories in the 2010 election, while in 2015 there was little between the two parties.

The government points to extra funding for the NHS during this parliament and topped up further in the Autumn Statement but a decade of austerity has come at a cost.

Bed numbers have fallen, while staffing shortages have increased.

Two things that make me smile before I get on to the serious point. Firstly, I like how you don't use inverted commas, so it reads like it is you saying the words you have copy and pasted from somewhere else :greengrin

Secondly, I love your use of this BBC article - I thought the BBC were anathema to you because of their evil MSM plotting to undermine the good ship SNP and all who sail in it :greengrin That's before we even look at who wrote it - the famous Mr Triggle who has incurred the wrath of various 'non-MSM' sources, including the National I believe, amid general accusations of him being a Tory propagandist/Covid herd mentality zealot etc etc. Strange bedfellows indeed!

But anyway, getting serious, let's look at his statement in bold more closely.

In their 2010 mnifesto the Tories promised annual real-terms increases in NHS spending. This wasn't exactly going out on a limb. Health spending went up every year under Thatcher and I would hazard that the rate of rise has been steeper this century as a result of medical advancement -basically we are a lot better at keeping people alive, even if they are chronically ill. So all in all, a meaningless, vacuous promise.

The Tories also said they would reduce administrative spend by a third. I don't have the figures for that in my head or to hand but I am very confident that they failed to do this, if nothing else because of the sheer cost of trying to implement Lansley's reforms in the early 2010s. It's grimly amusing that there is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about public money being siphoned off to private businesses run by Tory donors and chums, and privatisation by stealth. It's as if there is a collective amnesia to what happened by letting the Tories back in, after 2010, when they did exponentially more damage through their introduction of clinical commissioning groups.

Labour didnt make specific promises about monies in 2010, that's true. Perhaps there was more realism from having been in power two years earlier when the global economic crisis took hold. What they did promise was legally binding maximum waits for all treatment and other targets around cancer referrals and scans, annual 'health' MOTs for 40-74 year-olds, a massive expansion in mental health therapy and provision, and access to a GP at weekends and evenings.

But when it's all said and done, you would have to either really, really hate Labour, or be really, really scared of Labour to ever suggest the Tories would be the same or a better choice on the NHS.

[One Day Soon]

Two things that make me smile before I get on to the serious point. Firstly, I like how you don't use inverted commas, so it reads like it is you saying the words you have copy and pasted from somewhere else :greengrin

Secondly, I love your use of this BBC article - I thought the BBC were anathema to you because of their evil MSM plotting to undermine the good ship SNP and all who sail in it :greengrin That's before we even look at who wrote it - the famous Mr Triggle who has incurred the wrath of various 'non-MSM' sources, including the National I believe, amid general accusations of him being a Tory propagandist/Covid herd mentality zealot etc etc. Strange bedfellows indeed!

But anyway, getting serious, let's look at his statement in bold more closely.

In their 2010 mnifesto the Tories promised annual real-terms increases in NHS spending. This wasn't exactly going out on a limb. Health spending went up every year under Thatcher and I would hazard that the rate of rise has been steeper this century as a result of medical advancement -basically we are a lot better at keeping people alive, even if they are chronically ill. So all in all, a meaningless, vacuous promise.

The Tories also said they would reduce administrative spend by a third. I don't have the figures for that in my head or to hand but I am very confident that they failed to do this, if nothing else because of the sheer cost of trying to implement Lansley's reforms in the early 2010s. It's grimly amusing that there is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about public money being siphoned off to private businesses run by Tory donors and chums, and privatisation by stealth. It's as if there is a collective amnesia to what happened by letting the Tories back in, after 2010, when they did exponentially more damage through their introduction of clinical commissioning groups.

Labour didnt make specific promises about monies in 2010, that's true. Perhaps there was more realism from having been in power two years earlier when the global economic crisis took hold. What they did promise was legally binding maximum waits for all treatment and other targets around cancer referrals and scans, annual 'health' MOTs for 40-74 year-olds, a massive expansion in mental health therapy and provision, and access to a GP at weekends and evenings.

But when it's all said and done, you would have to either really, really hate Labour, or be really, really scared of Labour to ever suggest the Tories would be the same or a better choice on the NHS.


I don't visit this godforsaken space very often these days but that post was worth it.

[Smartie]

I don't visit this godforsaken space very often these days but that post was worth it.

Even if only for the final paragraph, which is the bottom line when it comes to the subject matter of this thread really.

[Hibrandenburg]

Opinions against the government will not be tolerated! How dare he put his personal opinions in writing! He should be writing glowing sycophant articles saying how wonderful everything is. 😂

You wake up and seem to post story after story about the Tory's, how are you different to him? Are you in fact not very similar....

I think the links you post are tolerated, it's just not everyone agrees with them or thinks the author is balanced. Two very different things, disagreeing with something thing doesn't mean it's not being tolerated. You do this quite a lot James.

[Mibbes Aye]

I've not veen able to read the whole interview as it is behind a firewall in The Times and I don't subscribe to it, but the Guardian have summarised the contents here

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/07/labour-would-tear-up-contract-with-gps-and-make-them-salaried-nhs-staff

Interestingly, Labour's shadow health secretary Wes Streeting is making some very pointed comments about how GP services are offered, which echoes some of the discussion that has taken place on here. Even more interestingly, the BMA appear to be making noises about accepting the need for change on their part.

[grunt]

You wake up and seem to post story after story about the Tory's, how are you different to him? Are you in fact not very similar....
I don't get paid to do this. I do it for love.

[grunt]

Fortunately after an hour I was diverted to the minor injuries unit where the wait time was relatively short and was attended to there.Sounds like you got sorted without too much of a delay. Glad you were able to get seen to.


Great people.Indeed.

[James310]

Two things that make me smile before I get on to the serious point. Firstly, I like how you don't use inverted commas, so it reads like it is you saying the words you have copy and pasted from somewhere else :greengrin

Secondly, I love your use of this BBC article - I thought the BBC were anathema to you because of their evil MSM plotting to undermine the good ship SNP and all who sail in it :greengrin That's before we even look at who wrote it - the famous Mr Triggle who has incurred the wrath of various 'non-MSM' sources, including the National I believe, amid general accusations of him being a Tory propagandist/Covid herd mentality zealot etc etc. Strange bedfellows indeed!

But anyway, getting serious, let's look at his statement in bold more closely.

In their 2010 mnifesto the Tories promised annual real-terms increases in NHS spending. This wasn't exactly going out on a limb. Health spending went up every year under Thatcher and I would hazard that the rate of rise has been steeper this century as a result of medical advancement -basically we are a lot better at keeping people alive, even if they are chronically ill. So all in all, a meaningless, vacuous promise.

The Tories also said they would reduce administrative spend by a third. I don't have the figures for that in my head or to hand but I am very confident that they failed to do this, if nothing else because of the sheer cost of trying to implement Lansley's reforms in the early 2010s. It's grimly amusing that there is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about public money being siphoned off to private businesses run by Tory donors and chums, and privatisation by stealth. It's as if there is a collective amnesia to what happened by letting the Tories back in, after 2010, when they did exponentially more damage through their introduction of clinical commissioning groups.

Labour didnt make specific promises about monies in 2010, that's true. Perhaps there was more realism from having been in power two years earlier when the global economic crisis took hold. What they did promise was legally binding maximum waits for all treatment and other targets around cancer referrals and scans, annual 'health' MOTs for 40-74 year-olds, a massive expansion in mental health therapy and provision, and access to a GP at weekends and evenings.

But when it's all said and done, you would have to either really, really hate Labour, or be really, really scared of Labour to ever suggest the Tories would be the same or a better choice on the NHS.

Yes the BBC reference was surprising, I think I have worked it out though. Anything SNP bad is biased and unbalanced (that can be made to anything anti SNP these days it seems, even opinion pieces that aren't supposed to be balanced) but anything anti Tory/Labour is obviously a great example of fair and balanced journalism.

[Kato]

I think the links you post are tolerated, it's just not everyone agrees with them or thinks the author is balanced. Two very different things, disagreeing with something thing doesn't mean it's not being tolerated. You do this quite a lot James.James likes to portray disagreement as intolerance.

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[James310]

James likes to portray disagreement as intolerance.

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I didn't see anyone take the points in the article and argue against them or point out where he was wrong, nobody was making any points to disagree, it was just immediately dismissed as not credible as it was anti SNP that's all. We see it all the time, whether it's Alex Massie, Kenny Farquason etc. The BBC (sometimes now it seems 😂) The Spectator and now the left leaning New Statesman.

I guess we have different opinions, I see plenty of people on here being intolerant of SNP criticism.

[Kato]

I didn't see anyone take the points in the article and argue against them or point out where he was wrong, nobody was making any points to disagree, it was just immediately dismissed as not credible as it was anti SNP that's all. We see it all the time, whether it's Alex Massie, Kenny Farquason etc. The BBC (sometimes now it seems [emoji23]) The Spectator and now the left leaning New Statesman.

I guess we have different opinions, I see plenty of people on here being intolerant of SNP criticism....and some taking the criticism, some oblivious and some nonplussed as in the scheme of things compared to the actual govt of the UK the Scottish local govt aren't all the bad.

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[James310]

...and some taking the criticism, some oblivious and some nonplussed as in the scheme of things compared to the actual govt of the UK the Scottish local govt aren't all the bad.

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https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail/status/1611843800988532739?t=wA7S-Yn6EFtahNxIFReQzg&s=19

"Tomorrow's front page leads on the crisis engulfing Scotland's A&E wards costing 40 lives a week"

40 deaths a week due to the A&E crisis isn't what I would describe as "aren't all that bad".

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64196889

800 people taken to hospital due to hypothermia in the first 2 weeks of December. Thanks tories!

[Glory Lurker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64196889

800 people taken to hospital due to hypothermia in the first 2 weeks of December. Thanks tories!

I don't think it was the Tories that took them to hospital.

[LunasBoots]

https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail/status/1611843800988532739?t=wA7S-Yn6EFtahNxIFReQzg&s=19

"Tomorrow's front page leads on the crisis engulfing Scotland's A&E wards costing 40 lives a week"

40 deaths a week due to the A&E crisis isn't what I would describe as "aren't all that bad".

Not surprised, got sent up there tonight and was sat in a ambulance for a hour, finally got into the waiting room which was filled to the brim, people everhwhere, it gave me an idea of what a third world countries hospital may look like, decided to sign myself out when I was told I'd be waiting 10 hours for anti biotics.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't think it was the Tories that took them to hospital.

No, but it's the tories that put them there with their policies.

Three word slogan "eat or heat"

[Jack]

No, but it's the tories that put them there with their policies.

Three word slogan "eat or heat"

I wonder when the malnutrition stats will be published 🤔

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/LindaGreenisms/status/1610275655064735745?t=KaCTHW7h7ZT4UVOEQZTJ4w&s=19

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[Santa Cruz]

I wonder when the malnutrition stats will be published 🤔

They were reported last year, think it was covering 4-5 years data? Says in this article malnutrition is an under reported stat as most cases are dealt with by GP's without further referrals. Also never realised until I read it that malnutrition includes over eating unhealthy food, it's a lack of nutrition not always a lack of food.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/as-malnutrition-among-scotlands-children-soars-our-snp-and-tory-governments-put-their-ideologies-before-people-susan-dalgety-3854065

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/08/rishi-sunak-signals-he-is-open-to-discussing-this-years-pay-with-nurses?CMP=twt_gu&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium#Echobox=1673175543

Let’s hope this deal gets done which will mean more money for Scotland to do the same. Mad that our funding is tied to theirs but we just need to hope.[emoji1696]


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[stu in nottingham]

This was the scene at a GP practice in Derby last week after an angry patient trashed it. Apparently, the fourth such incident at the practice of late. The practice is now considering hiring security to keep staff and patients safe. Where on earth will this all end.


26379

[ronaldo7]

Two things that make me smile before I get on to the serious point. Firstly, I like how you don't use inverted commas, so it reads like it is you saying the words you have copy and pasted from somewhere else :greengrin

Secondly, I love your use of this BBC article - I thought the BBC were anathema to you because of their evil MSM plotting to undermine the good ship SNP and all who sail in it :greengrin That's before we even look at who wrote it - the famous Mr Triggle who has incurred the wrath of various 'non-MSM' sources, including the National I believe, amid general accusations of him being a Tory propagandist/Covid herd mentality zealot etc etc. Strange bedfellows indeed!

But anyway, getting serious, let's look at his statement in bold more closely.

In their 2010 mnifesto the Tories promised annual real-terms increases in NHS spending. This wasn't exactly going out on a limb. Health spending went up every year under Thatcher and I would hazard that the rate of rise has been steeper this century as a result of medical advancement -basically we are a lot better at keeping people alive, even if they are chronically ill. So all in all, a meaningless, vacuous promise.

The Tories also said they would reduce administrative spend by a third. I don't have the figures for that in my head or to hand but I am very confident that they failed to do this, if nothing else because of the sheer cost of trying to implement Lansley's reforms in the early 2010s. It's grimly amusing that there is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about public money being siphoned off to private businesses run by Tory donors and chums, and privatisation by stealth. It's as if there is a collective amnesia to what happened by letting the Tories back in, after 2010, when they did exponentially more damage through their introduction of clinical commissioning groups.

Labour didnt make specific promises about monies in 2010, that's true. Perhaps there was more realism from having been in power two years earlier when the global economic crisis took hold. What they did promise was legally binding maximum waits for all treatment and other targets around cancer referrals and scans, annual 'health' MOTs for 40-74 year-olds, a massive expansion in mental health therapy and provision, and access to a GP at weekends and evenings.

But when it's all said and done, you would have to either really, really hate Labour, or be really, really scared of Labour to ever suggest the Tories would be the same or a better choice on the NHS.


Come down from your high horse for a minute whilst I respond, then you can go back up to look down on us with that condescending frown of yours. :greengrin

My post was from the Beeb. Are we still allowed to link to such articles to move the discussion forward. It is useful to be able to discern from the facts in the article that the Tories and indeed the Lib dems and Labour all underfunded the Health service in the term he noted. The guy who wrote the article is of no consequence to me, it's the substance of the article. I can do without the regurgitated articles of SNP Bad which are fawned over by some on here in the Scottish press.

What numbers are wrong in his article?

England will eventually get round to voting in a "Labour party" in the next couple of years, and I hope they plough loads of money into the system down there, as it'll have a knock on effect up here. What's not to like. :greengrin

On your last paragraph, I don't think anyone on here really, really hates Labour or are even scared of an incoming Labour government. Bring it on, I say. Sir Keir will be offered the chance to put his "pledges" into action. Let's see if he follows through on some of them at least. I won't be holding my breath. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

Yes the BBC reference was surprising, I think I have worked it out though. Anything SNP bad is biased and unbalanced (that can be made to anything anti SNP these days it seems, even opinion pieces that aren't supposed to be balanced) but anything anti Tory/Labour is obviously a great example of fair and balanced journalism.

It's the Union voice. However it's still allowed to sometimes throw a light onto a subject which allows one to agree with.

Back to Wings with you. :na na:

[James310]

It's the Union voice. However it's still allowed to sometimes throw a light onto a subject which allows one to agree with.

Back to Wings with you. :na na:

I don't think I will ever beat the number of Wings links from yourself. I have maybe posted 2 or 3, back in the old days it was a weekly occurrence on here and his "wee blue book" or whatever it was called. It was mainly full of misinformation so glad you see him for what he is now.

[ronaldo7]

I don't think I will ever beat the number of Wings links from yourself. I have maybe posted 2 or 3, back in the old days it was a weekly occurrence on here and his "wee blue book" or whatever it was called. It was mainly full of misinformation so glad you see him for what he is now.

I think you'll find the wings links I posted were indeed factual. The article is the thing to behold not the writer.

You'll be disappointed to hear that your Bath pal has been suspended on the twittersphere again. Where are you going to find those naughty articles. :greengrin

[James310]

I think you'll find the wings links I posted were indeed factual. The article is the thing to behold not the writer.

You'll be disappointed to hear that your Bath pal has been suspended on the twittersphere again. Where are you going to find those naughty articles. :greengrin

They were not factual at all, mainly misinformation.

As I say glad you see him for what he is now, maybe you should of listened to those who were calling him out back in the day.

Anyway back on track, this is about the NHS not Wings.

[ronaldo7]

They were not factual at all, mainly misinformation.

As I say glad you see him for what he is now, maybe you should of listened to those who were calling him out back in the day.

Anyway back on track, this is about the NHS not Wings.

Wrong.

You don't know how I see him so please stop saying so. :greengrin

Back on track.

[James310]

Wrong.

You don't know how I see him so please stop saying so. :greengrin

Back on track.

No, it was incorrect and misinformation. We will just agree to disagree.

Stick his analysis on the Indy thread if you wish, prove me wrong.

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/two-glasgow-hospitals-close-collapse-25921554?utm_source=glasgow_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=breaking_daily_newsletter2&utm_medium=email

Two Glasgow hospitals 'close to collapse' as 27 ambulances queue outside Royal Infirmary

Top A&E medics have demanded “critical incident status” options for Scotland's crisis-hit hospitals as patients face waits of over 12 hours and being treated in corridors.


Back on track!

[He's here!]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/08/rishi-sunak-signals-he-is-open-to-discussing-this-years-pay-with-nurses?CMP=twt_gu&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium#Echobox=1673175543

Let’s hope this deal gets done which will mean more money for Scotland to do the same. Mad that our funding is tied to theirs but we just need to hope.[emoji1696]


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Does Scotland not already spend more on healthcare per head of population than England? IIRC it's the biggest devolved sector of public spending we have.

Worrying news re our A&E depts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64203211

I've rarely found the waiting area at ERI to be anything other than heaving, but when I was there the other day there was a palpable sense of things being over-stretched.

[James310]

Does Scotland not already spend more on healthcare per head of population than England? IIRC it's the biggest devolved sector of public spending we have.

Worrying news re our A&E depts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64203211

I've rarely found the waiting area at ERI to be anything other than heaving, but when I was there the other day there was a palpable sense of things being over-stretched.

When the SNP came to power we were spending way more per person on health than England, now it's nowhere near as much. It did start to decline under Labour though and the SNP just continued the trend.

https://ifs.org.uk/news/official-estimates-suggest-scottish-health-spending-person-now-3-higher-england-compared-22


Pretty much all areas of public spending in Scotland is higher in Scotland than in England as the report shows.

The actual budget for Health and Social care in Scotland is a record high of £18BN and the Scottish Government can spend that on what they see fit. Breakdown here of what it's spent on.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-budget-2022-23/pages/5/

[Mibbes Aye]

Come down from your high horse for a minute whilst I respond, then you can go back up to look down on us with that condescending frown of yours. :greengrin

My post was from the Beeb. Are we still allowed to link to such articles to move the discussion forward. It is useful to be able to discern from the facts in the article that the Tories and indeed the Lib dems and Labour all underfunded the Health service in the term he noted. The guy who wrote the article is of no consequence to me, it's the substance of the article. I can do without the regurgitated articles of SNP Bad which are fawned over by some on here in the Scottish press.

What numbers are wrong in his article?

England will eventually get round to voting in a "Labour party" in the next couple of years, and I hope they plough loads of money into the system down there, as it'll have a knock on effect up here. What's not to like. :greengrin

On your last paragraph, I don't think anyone on here really, really hates Labour or are even scared of an incoming Labour government. Bring it on, I say. Sir Keir will be offered the chance to put his "pledges" into action. Let's see if he follows through on some of them at least. I won't be holding my breath. :wink:

Your first response was easier to understand, you shouldn't have deleted it :greengrin

Re your question (in bold) - I don't know - what is wrong with the numbers? It looks like they are from reliable sources.

My issue, as was plain to see in my post, was what the writer presented the figures as meaning. In fact, similar to something I posted earlier on the thread- you can't just post out-of-context stats, pretend they are making a genuine point and expect it to go unchallenged. It's about as far away from genuine debate as those posts that simply contain a link to Wings or the National or whatever. In this case it's a Tory who was in the 'happy to let the bodies pile high' camp making outlandish claims,

I'm surprised you would give his work the time of day, let alone repost it as something relevant. Strange bedfellows and all that..

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230110/dea2c153824e77284d972104bfa2bfcd.jpg


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[James310]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230110/dea2c153824e77284d972104bfa2bfcd.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bit of context is required surely? The Tories said they should go straight to questions as the Health Minister and First Minister felt it more important to announce the NHS plans to the media yesterday rather than in Parliament where these things are normally done.

[Ozyhibby]

Bit of context is required surely? The Tories said they should go straight to questions as the Health Minister and First Minister felt it more important to announce the NHS plans to the media yesterday rather than in Parliament where these things are normally done.

The plans were not announced to the media yesterday though. She specifically refused to answer that question during the press conference so that Yousef could announce in parliament. I watched it.


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[James310]

The plans were not announced to the media yesterday though. She specifically refused to answer that question during the press conference so that Yousef could announce in parliament. I watched it.


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Weird, how was this known yesterday then?

Staffing of the NHS 24 helpline is to be increased, while health boards will be backed in maximising capacity by opening GP practices on Saturdays.

Extra funds are being given to health and social care partnerships to book extra care home beds, with the goal of freeing up capacity on wards.

Non plans that sound like plans? Anyway point being that original tweet was misleading, but it's from a SNP employee so not surprising.

[Mibbes Aye]

The plans were not announced to the media yesterday though. She specifically refused to answer that question during the press conference so that Yousef could announce in parliament. I watched it.


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They were plastered all over the BBC News website last night. Maybe it was one of those things that John Swinney didn't authorise.

[Stairway 2 7]

Didn't see it, did the speaker go nuts about it being leaked before being shown in parliament. Hoyle is a tit but he always pulls them up for leaked info

[ronaldo7]

The plans were not announced to the media yesterday though. She specifically refused to answer that question during the press conference so that Yousef could announce in parliament. I watched it.


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Yup.

Tories trying to pull a fast one, but the presiding officer ruled them offside.

[Ozyhibby]

Didn't see it, did the speaker go nuts about it being leaked before being shown in parliament. Hoyle is a tit but he always pulls them up for leaked info

The speaker did not go nuts which tells you that the two statements were different.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The speaker did not go nuts which tells you that the two statements were different.


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Information was undoubtedly leaked to the press. The statement was obviously fuller as its a statement and not info about the statement. Its happened a few times. Was rife around covid from snp and tories. We knew half the new policies the day before the announcements, very poor

[marinello59]

Information was undoubtedly leaked to the press. The statement was obviously fuller as its a statement and not info about the statement. Its happened a few times. Was rife around covid from snp and tories. We knew half the new policies the day before the announcements, very poor

Aye, definitely leaked and as you say poor, no matter who is doing it. Seems to be the norm from both Governments these days though.

[James310]

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1613176265124585474?t=nL6GbYVoDuMi0wkUeJrUFA&s=19

Why would staff be scared to speak openly about their experiences, scared of who? What repercussions would there be?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1613176265124585474?t=nL6GbYVoDuMi0wkUeJrUFA&s=19

Why would staff be scared to speak openly about their experiences, scared of who? What repercussions would there be?

No evidence?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/msm_monitor/status/1612725714507137024?s=46&t=VdkO_wcfuLjSFH21ey1ntw

Tory MSP making a fool of himself.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230112/725c922ef175ef1a06560c67d3c1482f.jpg


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[James310]

https://twitter.com/msm_monitor/status/1612725714507137024?s=46&t=VdkO_wcfuLjSFH21ey1ntw

Tory MSP making a fool of himself.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230112/725c922ef175ef1a06560c67d3c1482f.jpg


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Not sure we can trust the waiting time statistics.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-rebuked-for-misleading-a-e-comparison-pwqgwt7vd

[grunt]

Not sure we can trust the waiting time statistics.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-rebuked-for-misleading-a-e-comparison-pwqgwt7vdAh that Tory Sandesh Gulhane :wink:.

Not sure we can trust Tory politicians.





(Actually, I am sure. We can't).

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure we can trust the waiting time statistics.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-rebuked-for-misleading-a-e-comparison-pwqgwt7vd

I tend to think the A&E waiting times are a problem because if you turn up at A&E with something like a sprain or anything not life threatening then of course you will be waiting a lot longer than someone brought in from an RTC or heart attack and these are the ones that bump the waiting times. I have been to Perth Royal Infirmary twice in the last 3 weeks for appointments and both times I saw no ambulances waiting at A&E. I've been pulled up for mentioning this before but some areas are definately better (or worse) than others and there are many factors such as staffing and population density but too many people turn up at A&E when it is a minor injury or possibly an ailment that is neither an accident or an emergency.

[Ozyhibby]

I tend to think the A&E waiting times are a problem because if you turn up at A&E with something like a sprain or anything not life threatening then of course you will be waiting a lot longer than someone brought in from an RTC or heart attack and these are the ones that bump the waiting times. I have been to Perth Royal Infirmary twice in the last 3 weeks for appointments and both times I saw no ambulances waiting at A&E. I've been pulled up for mentioning this before but some areas are definately better (or worse) than others and there are many factors such as staffing and population density but too many people turn up at A&E when it is a minor injury or possibly an ailment that is neither an accident or an emergency.

I think in both healthcare systems, a major problem is people showing up at A&E with non urgent problems. I think GP services need to start operating on a more 24/7 basis to prevent this happening.


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[grunt]

I think in both healthcare systems, a major problem is people showing up at A&E with non urgent problems. I think GP services need to start operating on a more 24/7 basis to prevent this happening.
And yet Wes Streeting wants to bypass the GPs and allow people to go direct to specialists?

[Stairway 2 7]

I think in both healthcare systems, a major problem is people showing up at A&E with non urgent problems. I think GP services need to start operating on a more 24/7 basis to prevent this happening.


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I think labour are correct to try and limit or end private practices. They should be under the NHS fully and not for profit. Later hours and weekends should be as standard

[Smartie]

I think labour are correct to try and limit or end private practices. They should be under the NHS fully and not for profit. Later hours and weekends should be as standard

And the money to fund such a service and the "reallocation" of private practices comes from...

[Moulin Yarns]

And the money to fund such a service and the "reallocation" of private practices comes from...

Increased income tax, as per usual 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

Increased income tax, as per usual 😉

Of course but the whole suite of taxes as Westminster has that capability. That's where the money for every service comes from.

The English say the same about free prescriptions and education. They say where does the money come from a magic money tree. No taxes preferably from those people and businesses that can afford it most.

[Jack]

And the money to fund such a service and the "reallocation" of private practices comes from...

I worked in SG Primary Care 10 years ago.

I had a brief look at the number of GP Practices recently and they've reduced by around 100 since I was there. That could be for many reasons like single handed GPs retiring, amalgamations etc.

What I also noticed was a large number of Practices which have moved from independent to being run by the health board. I can't remember the figure when I was there but it seems to be much larger than it was, from scrolling down the spreadsheet, it was slowly increasing in my time there.

I'd imagine in years to come the number of independent Practices will continue to fall until there will be a natural tipping point where there are none or so few there won't be the unnecessary fuss there seems to be now.

[James310]

https://twitter.com/ProstateUK/status/1613445726515625986?t=6v1rkED2DX8VyoObsmdYrQ&s=19

Seems odd, why would Scotland be such an outlier.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/ProstateUK/status/1613445726515625986?t=6v1rkED2DX8VyoObsmdYrQ&s=19

Seems odd, why would Scotland be such an outlier.

Can only give an anecdotal explanation in that a mate of mine was diagnosed a couple of year back but his diagnosis was delayed over a year because his GP would not send him for a PSA test due to him not being old enough. He knew himself that he wasn’t right and also that it ran through his family, so good chance he would get it sometime. An earlier diagnosis would have been much better for him.
Once he got his diagnosis, the treatment was pretty swift.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/ProstateUK/status/1613445726515625986?t=6v1rkED2DX8VyoObsmdYrQ&s=19

Seems odd, why would Scotland be such an outlier.

My thoughts are that Scotsmen and Yorkshiremen are more reticent to go to the doctor.

[grunt]

Staggering, almost unbelievable figures from England.


How many A&E patients wait more than 12 hours between a decision to admit them to hospital and actually being admitted?

In August 2010, England's NHS recorded one case of this. Not 100, not 1,000. Just one.

In December 2022, it was 54,532.

[Moulin Yarns]

Staggering, almost unbelievable figures from England.

On top of that...

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/01/up-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_ct=167356259 0999&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16735625371333&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsocie ty%2F2023%2Fjan%2F01%2Fup-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic

500 deaths a week

[Stairway 2 7]

On top of that...

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/01/up-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_ct=167356259 0999&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16735625371333&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsocie ty%2F2023%2Fjan%2F01%2Fup-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic

500 deaths a week

40 in Scotland, truly pathetic when you look at the rest of Europe not having these deaths post covid.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/humzayousaf/status/1613976909473251333?s=46&t=hVy8yVOgOdjGo_drHkMOWw

Brilliant news. Well done Humza.[emoji122]


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[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmeHTyOWQAAhdwb?format=jpg&name=small

[James310]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmeHTyOWQAAhdwb?format=jpg&name=small

Shocking, it's happening all over the country.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23234059.probe-patient-deaths-ambulances-outside-e/

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/sajid-javid-calls-for-patients-to-pay-for-gp-and-ae-visits?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1674258426

Time to start charging?


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[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1616466007903567875?t=mW47xyoHa7_awEO9bLGXlw&s=19

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[neil7908]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/sajid-javid-calls-for-patients-to-pay-for-gp-and-ae-visits?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1674258426

Time to start charging?


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But the Tories definitely aren't after the NHS.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1617475787015290880?s=46&t=r2Sf84pudUJfFgpFARFxwQ

Is she wrong?


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[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1617475787015290880?s=46&t=r2Sf84pudUJfFgpFARFxwQ

Is she wrong?


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Baseless scaremongering. 😏

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64385872?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=D502D24A-9BDA-11ED-8BF4-CBA04744363C&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_ptr_name=twitter

Good news.[emoji106]


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[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64385872?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=D502D24A-9BDA-11ED-8BF4-CBA04744363C&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_ptr_name=twitter

Good news.[emoji106]

Not according to Scottish Tories and Scottish Labour.

[Ozyhibby]

Not according to Scottish Tories and Scottish Labour.

I can see how it might be a disappointment for some but for most people it’s good news.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64752526?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=3074690C-B3CF-11ED-91B4-CD924744363C&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link


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[silverhibee]

I thought things had improved in the hospitals, my missus was taken in to the Royal yesterday about 3 o’clock where she was put on a bed and left at the side of the corridor, we were told they were just waiting for a bed to become available for her in a ward, I left at 11 last night and was told she would be getting moved shortly, she phoned me this morning to say she was still sitting in the corridor and waiting for a certain doctor to come see her, she was moved to a ward this afternoon.

[Mibbes Aye]

I thought things had improved in the hospitals, my missus was taken in to the Royal yesterday about 3 o’clock where she was put on a bed and left at the side of the corridor, we were told they were just waiting for a bed to become available for her in a ward, I left at 11 last night and was told she would be getting moved shortly, she phoned me this morning to say she was still sitting in the corridor and waiting for a certain doctor to come see her, she was moved to a ward this afternoon.

That’s appalling, I hope things are going better now she is in a ward, with proper cover.

Things are pretty awful across the board but the Royal is especially struggling. I know somebody who was down in Edinburgh, from Perth, last weekend. She tripped on a paving stone at the West End, split her eyebrow and her lip open, bad bruising, etc etc. Her son drove her to A&E as a walk-in, she was seen, still bleeding and told she needed a dozen stitches. Then she was told she would have make her way to Ninewells, in Dundee, to get stitched up. She is a pensioner, doesn’t drive, was lucky that there was family on hand. Perth to Edinburgh, get injured, get told to go to Dundee for treatment. That’s not right.

Something gets lost when people bang on about success in the NHS (or failure for that matter) and I hold my hand up as often being very vocal in my criticism. What gets lost is behind each one of those numbers that gets paraded about, is a human story, a story of someone sitting all evening, all night and all morning in a corridor. A story of a pensioner needing stitches to sew her face together getting told to go to Dundee for it. None of that is right.

[Peanut Shaz]

My 89 year Dad who has Alzheimers had a nasty fall at home the week before Christmas. We sat for 9 hours from 8pm in the waiting room before he was seen. I explained to every person we saw, Receptionist, Nurses, Radiographer, Doctors that he had dementia and would not be able to give clear answers to there questions as he wouldn't understand. I explained I had POA and was his main carer and could answer on his behalf. They continued to ask him the questions and wait for his response. It was obvious he was getting frustrated. I was not allowed to accompany him for his x rays which meant he was taken away by a complete stranger to a stressful situation. Long story short I was told to go home about 4 hours later as he was being admitted and would be safe. Lo and behold I'm home for 2 hours to be told he's being discharged by patient transport and will need an evac chair to get him up the stairs and all is good and there no are no fractures but he will have a zimmer frame and painkillers with him. 5 hours later he comes home but the patient transport staff have no evac chair as they weren't told there were stairs and no zimmer or painkillers. They had to call another vehicle with an evac chair and we had to go back to A and E later that night to collect the zimmer etc which had been placed in the discharge lounge with him but due to the dementia when asked if they were for him he had said no and that was accepted. He also had a bag with a sandwich pack and a carton if juice he had been given but left alone with and he couldn't work out how to open them so hadn't eaten now for almost 24 hours. His glasses were also lost. Two days later I get a call from the Orthopaefic Trauma team at the RIE to say he shouldn't have been discharged as he had two hairline fractures in his knee and pelvis and was high risk fall patient. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have left him but I was out on my feet having worked all day then sat all night in A and E without any sleep. I trusted them when they said he would be safe and looked after. Not so.

[Smartie]

My 89 year Dad who has Alzheimers had a nasty fall at home the week before Christmas. We sat for 9 hours from 8pm in the waiting room before he was seen. I explained to every person we saw, Receptionist, Nurses, Radiographer, Doctors that he had dementia and would not be able to give clear answers to there questions as he wouldn't understand. I explained I had POA and was his main carer and could answer on his behalf. They continued to ask him the questions and wait for his response. It was obvious he was getting frustrated. I was not allowed to accompany him for his x rays which meant he was taken away by a complete stranger to a stressful situation. Long story short I was told to go home about 4 hours later as he was being admitted and would be safe. Lo and behold I'm home for 2 hours to be told he's being discharged by patient transport and will need an evac chair to get him up the stairs and all is good and there no are no fractures but he will have a zimmer frame and painkillers with him. 5 hours later he comes home but the patient transport staff have no evac chair as they weren't told there were stairs and no zimmer or painkillers. They had to call another vehicle with an evac chair and we had to go back to A and E later that night to collect the zimmer etc which had been placed in the discharge lounge with him but due to the dementia when asked if they were for him he had said no and that was accepted. He also had a bag with a sandwich pack and a carton if juice he had been given but left alone with and he couldn't work out how to open them so hadn't eaten now for almost 24 hours. His glasses were also lost. Two days later I get a call from the Orthopaefic Trauma team at the RIE to say he shouldn't have been discharged as he had two hairline fractures in his knee and pelvis and was high risk fall patient. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have left him but I was out on my feet having worked all day then sat all night in A and E without any sleep. I trusted them when they said he would be safe and looked after. Not so.

I just despair at stories like this.

We’ll retreat to our usual bunkers and argue about independence, party politics etc but stories like this aren’t uncommon and they’re appalling on SO many levels.

We’re failing our most vulnerable whilst patting ourselves on the back for the fact that the NHS simply exists.

[Peanut Shaz]

I just despair at stories like this.

We’ll retreat to our usual bunkers and argue about independence, party politics etc but stories like this aren’t uncommon and they’re appalling on SO many levels.

We’re failing our most vulnerable whilst patting ourselves on the back for the fact that the NHS simply exists.

The irony is my Daughter is a senior staff nurse in A and E at the Sick Kids. When I started to tell her the story and my frustrations she got quite upset and said "welcome to my life, I have to deal with stuff like this every shift, every day albeit with different issues. Don't blame the staff, blame the system" She then proceeded to tell me the abuse she takes from Parents, Grandparents and carers when they have to wait for hours to be seen. She understands their frustrations but has to follow the triage guidelines with no room for common sense and professional knowledge to override this.

[heretoday]

We had a very unpleasant experience at Royal A/E in the autumn. Wednesday night waiting room for five hours. Most folk were half asleep. There were several junkie types running around engaged in some sort of attention-seeking drama and upsetting everyone else. There should have been some security about. The staff looked as miserable as the patients. God knows what it's like at weekends.

[Dalianwanda]

Here i pay 50 quid for a gp visit. 80 for starters if i go to hospital for a treatment (max 800 a year and then it’s free). dentist was cheaper to fly back to musselburgh and get treatment..paying for prescriptions…nhs is amazing and fck those who are taring it apart

[Ozyhibby]

Here i pay 50 quid for a gp visit. 80 for starters if i go to hospital for a treatment (max 800 a year and then it’s free). dentist was cheaper to fly back to musselburgh and get treatment..paying for prescriptions…nhs is amazing and fck those who are taring it apart

Where is here?


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[Santa Cruz]

Where is here?


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Think it's Ireland. There's a discussion on Ireland's health service on BBC Scotland tonight. It's either the Nine or the Seven, get these programmes mixed up.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bloody Socialists and their amazing health service

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65048962.amp

Cuban doctors asked to help at Fermanagh hospital

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Bloody Socialists and their amazing health service

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65048962.amp

Cuban doctors asked to help at Fermanagh hospital

Slightly off topic here but there was protests in Miami last week when the Cuban National Baseball team played there, loads of signs in the stadium about human rights etc. This in a country where medical bills can put you in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, protesting against a country with free top class healthcare and free education. Some folk, eh.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Slightly off topic here but there was protests in Miami last week when the Cuban National Baseball team played there, loads of signs in the stadium about human rights etc. This in a country where medical bills can put you in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, protesting against a country with free top class healthcare and free education. Some folk, eh.


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Disgusting tons of drinks and food thrown at the Cuban fans until the left the stadium early

[Ozyhibby]

Slightly off topic here but there was protests in Miami last week when the Cuban National Baseball team played there, loads of signs in the stadium about human rights etc. This in a country where medical bills can put you in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, protesting against a country with free top class healthcare and free education. Some folk, eh.


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Let’s not kid on Cuba is a great place to live.[emoji849]


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[speedy_gonzales]

Let’s not kid on Cuba is a great place to live.[emoji849]


Parts of Miami aren't that great either.
Visited there a few years back, multi-million dollar apartments (that lie empty a lot of the time because the rich & famous use it as a tax dodge) then next to them are hundreds of homeless folk sheltering from the sun under the freeway on-ramps with their shopping carts full of recyclables.
I know rich & poor live cheek by jowl the world over but the disparity of wealth distribution there is on another level.

[Stairway 2 7]

Let’s not kid on Cuba is a great place to live.[emoji849]


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It's similar to other Caribbean countries that are very poor. Although it's the only one hamstrung by a draconian embargo with the areas superpower

[Santa Cruz]

More health related than NHS.

Read this sad news about the charity HIV Scotland closing after 30 years due to funding and governance issues.

https://www.hiv.scot/

[grunt]

Read this sad news about the charity HIV Scotland closing after 30 years due to funding and governance issues.

https://www.hiv.scot/


... there have been some recent changes within the organisation’s governance which have caused concern. This has led to the Chair and a significant number of the Board resigning from their positions.

Do you know what they are referring to here?

[Santa Cruz]

Do you know what they are referring to here?

No idea.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Let’s not kid on Cuba is a great place to live.[emoji849]


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I don’t think I did


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Disgusting tons of drinks and food thrown at the Cuban fans until the left the stadium early

Was clearly visible on BT Sport, who were broadcasting the programme filmed by ESPN. I assume this is acceptable to both broadcasters, then. I’m not going to kid on Cuba is perfect but would I give up Coca-Cola and other named brands for free healthcare and education? Obviously.


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[silverhibee]

Heard this last night, don’t know if true though, big outbreak of Covid in the Western hospital that has closed down several wards and that some patients have been moved in to the Village hotel down the road from the hospital.

[Santa Cruz]

Heard this last night, don’t know if true though, big outbreak of Covid in the Western hospital that has closed down several wards and that some patients have been moved in to the Village hotel down the road from the hospital.

I hope it's not true. It's making me feel less reluctant to go to an appt I've recieved.

[Just Alf]

Don't know about the Western but I do know there loads of Covid kicking around in Livingston again.. half my family out there are down with it :-(
Compared to previous waves this is the most widespread its been... as far as friends and family are concerned at least.

[Bridge hibs]

I hope it's not true. It's making me feel less reluctant to go to an appt I've recieved.

Ive just received my appointment too at the WGH, strangely enough its on Sunday

[Santa Cruz]

Ive just received my appointment too at the WGH, strangely enough its on Sunday

I know someone who was there at a Sunday appt recently in the Urology Dept.

[Bridge hibs]

I know someone who was there at a Sunday appt recently in the Urology Dept.

Thats where my appointment is mate, they must be working through their backlog as Ive been waiting 18 months on this ‘urgent’ appointment

[Santa Cruz]

Thats where my appointment is mate, they must be working through their backlog as Ive been waiting 18 months on this ‘urgent’ appointment

Glad you've got yours now.

[Bridge hibs]

Glad you've got yours now.

Thanks mate 👍

[McD]

Don't know about the Western but I do know there loads of Covid kicking around in Livingston again.. half my family out there are down with it :-(
Compared to previous waves this is the most widespread its been... as far as friends and family are concerned at least.


that’s very anecdotal, and a bit of a leap to say loads

I live in Livingston, as do almost my entire extended family, and many friends, neighbours and acquaintances, and I don’t know a single person with covid

[Jay]

that’s very anecdotal, and a bit of a leap to say loads

I live in Livingston, as do almost my entire extended family, and many friends, neighbours and acquaintances, and I don’t know a single person with covid

I'm west lothian too, couple of weeks ago it seemed everybody I knew was ill with cold type symptoms and headaches, those who tested were positive for covid but I work in Edinburgh and it ran through my workplace like wildfire around the same time , we are NHS so still test. Its not a Livingston issue for sure

[Just Alf]

that’s very anecdotal, and a bit of a leap to say loads

I live in Livingston, as do almost my entire extended family, and many friends, neighbours and acquaintances, and I don’t know a single person with covidIt's why I caveated it with friends and family :agree:


And.like Jay above, I'm Edinburgh and my work seems to be similar with higher than normal folks off.

[Stairway 2 7]

Covid level is pretty low in Scotland right now, pretty steady at one level now pretty much everyone has had it.

I think this is the last time we'll know the definite level as the covid infection survey is ending this week

26559

[Glory Lurker]

Surely we don't close hospital facilities because of covid anymore?

[Skol]

Heard this last night, don’t know if true though, big outbreak of Covid in the Western hospital that has closed down several wards and that some patients have been moved in to the Village hotel down the road from the hospital.

My MiL is in the western right now with pneumonia. In a covid ward. Not been any talk of this when I have been visiting this weekend.

[HibeeSince85]

Don't know about the Western but I do know there loads of Covid kicking around in Livingston again.. half my family out there are down with it :-(
Compared to previous waves this is the most widespread its been... as far as friends and family are concerned at least.

I live in Livi too and the missus is a nurse at St John's. COVID is rampant just now in there with over half of the staff on her ward coming down with it this weekend. At 8 months pregnant and only two weeks away from maternity leave she is thinking about just starting mat leave early and I fully support that idea.

[Mibbes Aye]

Surely we don't close hospital facilities because of covid anymore?

My nearest general hospital has had ward and bays closed on and off throughout the winter and into this period. It’s usually been attributed to Covid, Covid and flu, or Covid, flu and norovirus.

The worst-hit or most frequent seem to be the stroke and stroke rehab ward, and the gastro-intestinal ward, although the knock-on effect has been wider and seen all elective and routine surgery cancelled.

[silverhibee]

My MiL is in the western right now with pneumonia. In a covid ward. Not been any talk of this when I have been visiting this weekend.

It was a friends wife’s dad who went in for a operation last week, they seemingly offered him to go to the Village hotel to recover in case he caught covid as they have had to close down some wards, I don’t think they would be moving covid patients about the place or in to hotels.

[silverhibee]

Covid level is pretty low in Scotland right now, pretty steady at one level now pretty much everyone has had it.

I think this is the last time we'll know the definite level as the covid infection survey is ending this week

26559

I’m still adamant that I have not caught it yet.

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m still adamant that I have not caught it yet.

I think 2% haven't I'd read so you might not have, although a third of people are completely asymptomatic so hopefully your one of they lucky ones

[Pretty Boy]

My wife has not long finished work in Asda.

Tonight they had a guy come in dressed in hospital scrub trousers, a t shirt and shoes with no socks. He had a hospital wristband on. He was a bit confused and disorientated. A few members of staff asked if he was ok and a first aider was called. They called an ambulance which appeared a couple of hours later. The paramedics assessed him, said he was 'mentally capable' and left. The guy wouldn't leave the store and an announcement was put out for a manager as the poor guy was now walking about naked from the waist down and had a colostomy bag leaking all over the floor. He was also very agitated, dropping his possessions all over the floor and struggling to stay awake. Another ambulance was called and they again said this wasn't an issue that required their assistance and it was a police matter. The police arrived, said the guy wasn't reported missing and it wasn't an issue for them, told the store manager to call an ambulance and left him with the store security. A 2nd ambulance arrived, wheeled him out the store, assessed him in the ambulance then wheeled him back in said it wasn't an acute situation.

As of my wife leaving at 10pm the guy was still in store and had been for 5 hours with no one really sure what to do with him. No one wants to turn him out onto the street on a cold night wearing what he was and in the state he was in. The Police don't want to know and 2 ambulance crews have said he is fine and there is no need for medical assistance.

I can't get my head around that but it screams of a system that is totally fractured. It does sound like a social work issue and someone who requires some kind of care package but surely there is a short term duty of care? I'm not sure how 2 branches of the emergency services can just abdicate responsibility. How guilty would someone in the store feel decanting him back onto the street if anything happened to him overnight?

[Santa Cruz]

That's an awful story PB. A vulnerable person is always the responsibility of the Police. I watched a woman on TV earlier this week, think maybe a segment on the news can't actually mind her story there's so many heartbreaking ones now, her exact words were everythings broken.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

My wife has not long finished work in Asda.

Tonight they had a guy come in dressed in hospital scrub trousers, a t shirt and shoes with no socks. He had a hospital wristband on. He was a bit confused and disorientated. A few members of staff asked if he was ok and a first aider was called. They called an ambulance which appeared a couple of hours later. The paramedics assessed him, said he was 'mentally capable' and left. The guy wouldn't leave the store and an announcement was put out for a manager as the poor guy was now walking about naked from the waist down and had a colostomy bag leaking all over the floor. He was also very agitated, dropping his possessions all over the floor and struggling to stay awake. Another ambulance was called and they again said this wasn't an issue that required their assistance and it was a police matter. The police arrived, said the guy wasn't reported missing and it wasn't an issue for them, told the store manager to call an ambulance and left him with the store security. A 2nd ambulance arrived, wheeled him out the store, assessed him in the ambulance then wheeled him back in said it wasn't an acute situation.

As of my wife leaving at 10pm the guy was still in store and had been for 5 hours with no one really sure what to do with him. No one wants to turn him out onto the street on a cold night wearing what he was and in the state he was in. The Police don't want to know and 2 ambulance crews have said he is fine and there is no need for medical assistance.

I can't get my head around that but it screams of a system that is totally fractured. It does sound like a social work issue and someone who requires some kind of care package but surely there is a short term duty of care? I'm not sure how 2 branches of the emergency services can just abdicate responsibility. How guilty would someone in the store feel decanting him back onto the street if anything happened to him overnight?

Terrible story, never mind how guilty they’d feel… how guilty might they actually BE in a court of law? Emergency services are a joke in this country atm, my wife is a midwife and she’s at breaking point with the state of the hospital she’s working in. It’s not just a lack of beds, it’s the standard of higher up staff that concerns her most.


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[marinello59]

My wife has not long finished work in Asda.

Tonight they had a guy come in dressed in hospital scrub trousers, a t shirt and shoes with no socks. He had a hospital wristband on. He was a bit confused and disorientated. A few members of staff asked if he was ok and a first aider was called. They called an ambulance which appeared a couple of hours later. The paramedics assessed him, said he was 'mentally capable' and left. The guy wouldn't leave the store and an announcement was put out for a manager as the poor guy was now walking about naked from the waist down and had a colostomy bag leaking all over the floor. He was also very agitated, dropping his possessions all over the floor and struggling to stay awake. Another ambulance was called and they again said this wasn't an issue that required their assistance and it was a police matter. The police arrived, said the guy wasn't reported missing and it wasn't an issue for them, told the store manager to call an ambulance and left him with the store security. A 2nd ambulance arrived, wheeled him out the store, assessed him in the ambulance then wheeled him back in said it wasn't an acute situation.

As of my wife leaving at 10pm the guy was still in store and had been for 5 hours with no one really sure what to do with him. No one wants to turn him out onto the street on a cold night wearing what he was and in the state he was in. The Police don't want to know and 2 ambulance crews have said he is fine and there is no need for medical assistance.

I can't get my head around that but it screams of a system that is totally fractured. It does sound like a social work issue and someone who requires some kind of care package but surely there is a short term duty of care? I'm not sure how 2 branches of the emergency services can just abdicate responsibility. How guilty would someone in the store feel decanting him back onto the street if anything happened to him overnight?

There are massive cracks in the system that appear to be getting bigger. Ambulance crews can’t just take people to hospital now, they are becoming mobile treatment centres and holding areas. Your story illustrates just how peoples lives are being adversely affected by the failure of our politicians to get to grips with things. Our most vulnerable people are being let down and neglected. The answer isn’t merely throwing more money at things, radical reform is needed. Unfortunately we have lacked leaders with the courage and vision required to take that task on.

[Smartie]

Without wishing to turn this into another independence thread - things have been pretty awful down South for some time, the system has been broken for a while. At least until recently things have been almost able to function in Scotland. It now appears that we’re crossing that line where we have to accept that our services are no longer fit for purpose, ask ourselves if we’re prepared to accept it and if not, what are we going to do about it?

[Santa Cruz]

Do you know what they are referring to here?

The answer in this morning's Record.

How disappointing are people in position of trust who's dishonest actions affect so many other decent people whether that's service users, volunteers, employees or other board members.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/former-scots-hiv-charity-chief-29608705

[JimBHibees]

My wife has not long finished work in Asda.

Tonight they had a guy come in dressed in hospital scrub trousers, a t shirt and shoes with no socks. He had a hospital wristband on. He was a bit confused and disorientated. A few members of staff asked if he was ok and a first aider was called. They called an ambulance which appeared a couple of hours later. The paramedics assessed him, said he was 'mentally capable' and left. The guy wouldn't leave the store and an announcement was put out for a manager as the poor guy was now walking about naked from the waist down and had a colostomy bag leaking all over the floor. He was also very agitated, dropping his possessions all over the floor and struggling to stay awake. Another ambulance was called and they again said this wasn't an issue that required their assistance and it was a police matter. The police arrived, said the guy wasn't reported missing and it wasn't an issue for them, told the store manager to call an ambulance and left him with the store security. A 2nd ambulance arrived, wheeled him out the store, assessed him in the ambulance then wheeled him back in said it wasn't an acute situation.

As of my wife leaving at 10pm the guy was still in store and had been for 5 hours with no one really sure what to do with him. No one wants to turn him out onto the street on a cold night wearing what he was and in the state he was in. The Police don't want to know and 2 ambulance crews have said he is fine and there is no need for medical assistance.

I can't get my head around that but it screams of a system that is totally fractured. It does sound like a social work issue and someone who requires some kind of care package but surely there is a short term duty of care? I'm not sure how 2 branches of the emergency services can just abdicate responsibility. How guilty would someone in the store feel decanting him back onto the street if anything happened to him overnight?

What a despicable endictment that is. Heads should roll for that. Sounds like he just wandered out a hospital. How two ambulances and the police don't think he needed help is simply shameful. What e eventually happened to him?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1642788115533246466?s=12

This nonsense needs to stop. The nhs should have their own bank of staff that get sent to plug gaps.


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[Jay]

https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1642788115533246466?s=12

This nonsense needs to stop. The nhs should have their own bank of staff that get sent to plug gaps.


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We do but there's not enough of us and so many are leaving the NHS to do agency because they earn so much more. Its a vicious circle.

[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1642788115533246466?s=12

This nonsense needs to stop. The nhs should have their own bank of staff that get sent to plug gaps.


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The NHS boards do have their own staff banks. I think a fair number of staff do bank on top of existing. That’s supplemented by others. One of my offspring works on the bank of two health boards whilst studying.

What i I couldn’t see there, maybe just missed it, was what type of staff were agency-provided. I don’t think it was specifically nurses - which means we could be talking about clinicians as well, or we could be talking domestics, drivers, security, porters. As you can imagine, short-term, temporary cover for a medic costs silly money.

As far as it goes, the figure quoted equates to around £100m a year. I wouldn’t say I was I shocked to be honest. That doesn’t make it right by any stretch of the imagination, I’m just not surprised is all.

Edit - just saw the post above and would echo that. For nurses especially, probably a higher risk of MSK conditions forcing them out earlier, plus accumulated stress. And agencies found themselves able to pay better by charging more, not just in hospitals, but in nursing homes and sometimes for social care packages for people with very complex care and/or challenging behaviours.

[Ozyhibby]

We do but there's not enough of us and so many are leaving the NHS to do agency because they earn so much more. Its a vicious circle.

The nhs has all the power though. They need to commit to only using their own staff. The agencies would not exist without the nhs. The nhs is a monopoly which doesn’t know how to act like one.
The deal should be, if you want to work in the nhs, you can only do so directly.


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[H18 SFR]

My sister had a 35 hour contract and her line manager was literally begging folk to reduce to 27 hours. She registered with the two best paying agencies and took the reduction. She is now £200 a week better off for a 35 hour week.

[wookie70]

The nhs has all the power though. They need to commit to only using their own staff. The agencies would not exist without the nhs. The nhs is a monopoly which doesn’t know how to act like one.
The deal should be, if you want to work in the nhs, you can only do so directly.


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Contingent workers are a massive feature of public service in Scotland. Part of it is year and years of falling wages, stolen pensions and other conditions meaning staff are leaving and the lack of training and the forward thinking from managers. The agencies make a fortune for not really doing anything and quite a lot of the IT workers are living in England, paying less tax and none of the money is going back into the Scottish economy. We are getting dragged down by Westminster and without borrowing powers there is little any Scottish Government, regardless of rosette colour could do about it.

It is a horrible story told by Pretty Boy and I can't understand how the Police can walk away from that. Someone has to take responsibility and even if it is a matter for Social Services teh Police would surely have contacts there and could make a call. The whole system has been deliberately broken though and citizens in Westminster election have voted for it to be dismantled. We are getting what the electorate want in some ways although most of them are voting on a dog whistle rather than a manifesto or prior track record.

[Jay]

The nhs has all the power though. They need to commit to only using their own staff. The agencies would not exist without the nhs. The nhs is a monopoly which doesn’t know how to act like one.
The deal should be, if you want to work in the nhs, you can only do so directly.


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Shifts get put out to nhs staff first. Agency staff are used to plug the gaps. The deal is that you cant do agency work in your area so if you have a contract with nhs lothian you have to go to another health board to do agency but many gave up their contracts to do only agency work as it pays so much more so can work wherever they want. Loads ended up doing agency in the same nhs ward as they worked .

[Mibbes Aye]

The nhs has all the power though. They need to commit to only using their own staff. The agencies would not exist without the nhs. The nhs is a monopoly which doesn’t know how to act like one.
The deal should be, if you want to work in the nhs, you can only do so directly.


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The challenges in that are plenty. If you are to have enough NHS staff to cover every sickness absence, every extended leave, every shortfall due to turnaround times in recruitment etc etc etc then you would be over-employing. Staff who aren’t utilised correctly will understandably lose skills and morale. And you are essentially wasting taxpayers’ money - I’m hoping that no one jumps in on that and says yeah, but what about Trident, or MPs’ expenses, or HS2 or whatever, it’s not relevant to the point - you are wasting taxpayers’ money employing people where there is no work for them. I am surprised at you OH, government subsidies for people to do nothing :greengrin.

But it really comes down to your first sentence. I think it is a sellers’ market. If a hospital or a nursing home requires x nurses to meet a safe staffing ratio, then x is how many it is required to have. Its staffing budget is a separate thing and will generate a pot of money for a staffing establishment that in theory should accommodate annual leave and an assumed sickness rate (generally lower than realistic). However it almost certainly doesn’t cover true sickness rate, nor will it include the costs for cover during recruitment turnaround. In fact that is often viewed as a guaranteed efficiency on the staffing budget!

If there are real solutions, then they are about good workforce planning, good, timely and supportive absence management, slicker recruitment processes and a host of other structural remedies, as well as a cold, hard look at cultures and working practices across the whole system. That entails a risk however because some of it potentially threatens hard-won employment rights that the unions would understandably oppose.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Shifts get put out to nhs staff first. Agency staff are used to plug the gaps. The deal is that you cant do agency work in your area so if you have a contract with nhs lothian you have to go to another health board to do agency but many gave up their contracts to do only agency work as it pays so much more so can work wherever they want. Loads ended up doing agency in the same nhs ward as they worked .

In the short term, that would kill loads of patients.

[Jay]

In the short term, that would kill loads of patients.

I'm not sure what you mean? What would? I stated what's actually happening. Same nurses working agency for higher money. Whether you agree with the ethics of it or not I can see why they do it.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I'm not sure what you mean? What would? I stated what's actually happening. Same nurses working agency for higher money. Whether you agree with the ethics of it or not I can see why they do it.

sorry, I replied to the wrong post there.

[Jay]

sorry, I replied to the wrong post there.

No bother. I'm easily confused :greengrin

[AgentDaleCooper]

No bother. I'm easily confused :greengrin

so am i clearly! :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/dr_deans/status/1645546065213497344?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Interesting thread.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/dr_deans/status/1645546065213497344?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Interesting thread.


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Tories going to offer 2% to try stop strikes. Why offer it the day before, why make it deliberately poor. Polling shows the public support the doctors so it's a strange tactic

[Kato]

Tories going to offer 2% to try stop strikes. Why offer it the day before, why make it deliberately poor. Polling shows the public support the doctors so it's a strange tactic

Hoping more leave to go to the gig economy. The more private doctors, the more the NHS changes to being a privatised part of the national infrastructure.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1646514864955994112?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The madness of the current pay dispute. Govt say we can’t afford to pay more when we can’t afford not to pay more.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-tories-boris-johnson-prime-minister-politico-b2319218.html

The solution?


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[Kato]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-tories-boris-johnson-prime-minister-politico-b2319218.html

The solution?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere's a surprise. It's a Culture War against anything remotely being seen to provide a semblance of a social contract. 500 patients dying earlier than they would have done per week because of their deliberate tactic to run down, make it seem like there is no alternative then privatise. A culture war with clear and ongoing casualties.

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[AgentDaleCooper]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-tories-boris-johnson-prime-minister-politico-b2319218.html

The solution?


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it's another step towards what the Tories want - a fully privatised, insurance based health services.

State provision has never been the problem with the NHS. Since the organisation's inception, the Tories have been chipping away, and are now at the end game - convincing the public that there is no alternative other than privatisation.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/boris-johnson-told-donald-trump-to-keep-discussions-about-privatising-the-nhs-just-between-them-347320/


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[grunt]

Court orders nurse strike in England to be cut short

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65380385?at_link_id=105F68B2-E4EC-11ED-82AC-F5A4FF7C7F44&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_campaign_type=owned&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_format=link

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1651901173216038913?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Always worth a read.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230510/3f4ef064a237524a676c69f503bd6608.jpg


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[degenerated]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230510/3f4ef064a237524a676c69f503bd6608.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt would take a lot to convince me that's a sensible plan. Potentially that would mean an idiot like me could be a doctor :greengrin26721

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230510/3f4ef064a237524a676c69f503bd6608.jpg


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Is that a parody, I'm unsure with the tories

[degenerated]

Is that a parody, I'm unsure with the toriesYou'd hope so, but it's not

[Stairway 2 7]

You'd hope so, but it's not

One of the radgest ideas I've read in a while, bravo. Hope the 18 year old that operates on me, hasn't been on the play station or playing with his pals all night before my op.

[hibee]

It would take a lot to convince me that's a sensible plan. Potentially that would mean an idiot like me could be a doctor :greengrin]

They would still have to pass the same medical exams as any of the university students so as long as the apprenticeship training is good enough I don’t see a problem with it.

[marinello59]

They would still have to pass the same medical exams as any of the university students so as long as the apprenticeship training is good enough I don’t see a problem with it.

There is no problem. There is more than one way in to every other profession. It’s surprising this hasn’t been proposed before.
Edit- I don’t think they are proposing a Youth Opportunity style training scheme.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is no problem. There is more than one way in to every other profession. It’s surprising this hasn’t been proposed before.
Edit- I don’t think they are proposing a Youth Opportunity style training scheme.

Nurses didn't used to go to university so you could say that they are turning back the clock or reinventing the wheel 😉

[marinello59]

Nurses didn't used to go to university so you could say that they are turning back the clock or reinventing the wheel 😉

Aye, maybe . Some would argue the old SEN and SRN system was better.

[Stairway 2 7]

Medical students do 6 years of the most intense study of any degree particularly the first three years. There is no way you could mix that into working. Students spend years of learning before they step foot in the hospital in a meaningful way and for good reason. You need a grounding in anatomy and physiology

When an apprentice comes on ward not knowing where the liver is, what do you do with them, make tea. They can't just follow one on one so who teaches them doctors don't have the time to work as it is.

I'm reading its being laughed out of town by doctors groups tonight, as something that can never happen. Many doctors are saying the same the same joke on twitter tonight, this will sort the brain drain of UK doctors as Australia and Canada ect simply would never take a doctor without a university degree.

This is substandard and make no mistake is all about massive underfunding in getting new doctors and paying them well to retain them. The litigation fees will outway the benefit

As doctor Rachel Clarke says it's crass pre election nonsense from the tories

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1656165947571314689

[AgentDaleCooper]

doable for nurses, awful idea for doctors

[Moulin Yarns]

Watching Malpractice on itv. Junior doctor misunderstood instructions from senior doctor. Patient dies. And that's going to happen if this goes ahead.

[JimBHibees]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230510/3f4ef064a237524a676c69f503bd6608.jpg


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Seems like a good plan 😂

[Mibbes Aye]

Given some people had shared their recent experience of care at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary, I thought this may be of interest. Inspectors have just published the report from the unannounced inspection that took place a couple of months back. There was a particular focus on the ED but the team were also in and about other wards.

It makes for grim reading - the greatest concerns were around patient safety, expecially how the hospital would cope in the event of a fire. Unfortunately it also highlights failings across a number of different areas here, in a way that makes clear that the problems are systemic. I should add the report highlighted staff worked in a compassionate and caring manner, within the limitations placed on them.

The summary of the report is in this link, with the full report linked at the bottom of the page, as well as the formal excalation letter sent to NHS Lothian's chief executive, because of the inspection findings.

https://www.healthcareimprovementscotland.org/our_work/inspecting_and_regulating_care/hosp_nhs_lothian/rie_may_23.aspx

The link below is to the BBC coverage which does a fairly accurate summary, although it foregrounds and backgrounds specific concerns a little differently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65633399

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/danielgoyal/status/1660576193710641153?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/danielgoyal/status/1660576193710641153?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Scottish Junior Doctors vote overwhelmingly (71%) to reject SG pay offer of 14.5% over two years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65892937

[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/danielgoyal/status/1660576193710641153?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Ooopsie!! :greengrin

Serious point though, I’ve seen you link to this guy before and two questions from me

1) Does he routinely hide people’s replies because he doesn’t like them :faf:

2) Has he ever shared all these metrics he says support his arguments?

[Chorley Hibee]

9 weeks I've been awaiting the results of biopsies for suspected oesophageal cancer.

The NHS guidelines suggest I should have had the results within 2 weeks.

It's incomprehensible the mess that the service is in.

[Pretty Boy]

9 weeks I've been awaiting the results of biopsies for suspected oesophageal cancer.

The NHS guidelines suggest I should have had the results within 2 weeks.

It's icomprehensible the mess that the service is in.

I've posted before that I had a similar delay when waiting on biopsy results for a suspected melanoma. Repeated phone calls to both dermatology and my GP got me nowhere as they both blamed each other, all the while causing me increasing worry and stress.

In the end I wrote an old fashioned letter and got a phone call with the results within 2 days and dates for follow up appointments. Might be worth a try.

[Ozyhibby]

I've posted before that I had a similar delay when waiting on biopsy results for a suspected melanoma. Repeated phone calls to both dermatology and my GP got me nowhere as they both blamed each other, all the while causing me increasing worry and stress.

In the end I wrote an old fashioned letter and got a phone call with the results within 2 days and dates for follow up appointments. Might be worth a try.

I would always advocate communicating in writing whether a letter or email. It leaves a trail and people know it and act accordingly.


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[Hibby Bairn]

9 weeks I've been awaiting the results of biopsies for suspected oesophageal cancer.

The NHS guidelines suggest I should have had the results within 2 weeks.

It's icomprehensible the mess that the service is in.

Absolutely shocking mate. I can't imagine the worry this will have caused you.

Hope you get good news and soon.

[Mibbes Aye]

Absolutely shocking mate. I can't imagine the worry this will have caused you.

Hope you get good news and soon.

I will second that.

[Chorley Hibee]

Thanks everyone.

I'll write an email/letter tomorrow and hope that achieves some sort of conclusion.

Stress and anxiety has been off the scale these past few weeks.

[McD]

Thanks everyone.

I'll write an email/letter tomorrow and hope that achieves some sort of conclusion.

Stress and anxiety has been off the scale these past few weeks.


awful to see your experience mate, hopefully you get good news very soon

[Ozyhibby]

I see the UK govt are scrapping waiting time targets now. Unionists will be insisting we follow I assume?


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[Callum_62]

I see the UK govt are scrapping waiting time targets now. Unionists will be insisting we follow I assume?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey will demand we keep them

Then bring them up every quarter when they are not met 100%

Claiming the rest of the UK have missed their targets 0% of the time

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[archie]

I see the UK govt are scrapping waiting time targets now. Unionists will be insisting we follow I assume?


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Why? People who don't want separation aren't a homogeneous block.

[archie]

They will demand we keep them

Then bring them up every quarter when they are met 100%

Claiming the rest of the UK have missed their targets 0% of the time

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Can you not just focus on the real issues that people are raising here?

[Callum_62]

Can you not just focus on the real issues that people are raising here?The government are changing something - we are commenting

Why isn't that a real issue?

If it's not a real issue to you why don't you just not comment?

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[Just Alf]

The government are changing something - we are commenting

Why isn't that a real issue?

If it's not a real issue to you why don't you just not comment?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using TapatalkIndeed...

At one point Scottish A&E targets were set higher than England/Wales and the SNP were getting slated for missing their target.
Despite the fact that if they'd not upped the target "to drive performance" they'd have hit the targets used elsewhere.

Clearly not hitting 100% means more needed done to improve things!

[grunt]

"We're not hitting our targets. What should we do?"

A. Implement improved processes, more investment in staff and facilities, more training and more funding.

B. Do away with the targets.

Which option do you think the lying Tories would choose?

[Ozyhibby]

Surprised they never attacked the Scottish NHS on first day of their NHS week?


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[lapsedhibee]

"We're not hitting our targets. What should we do?"

A. Implement improved processes, more investment in staff and facilities, more training and more funding.

B. Do away with the targets.

Which option do you think the lying Tories would choose?

Pretty surprised they did actually make a choice, tbh. Isn't Sunak's normal MO to not make choices at all but start spouting culture wars bolloc*s instead?

[archie]

The government are changing something - we are commenting

Why isn't that a real issue?

If it's not a real issue to you why don't you just not comment?

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There's people here raising very real issues about their personal experience of the NHS. Don't you think that's important?

[Callum_62]

There's people here raising very real issues about their personal experience of the NHS. Don't you think that's important?Oh sorry, please list the appropriate posts that I am allowed to comment on

Thanks

Anyway stop derailing the thread with this nonsense

You don't think it's important so ignore it

Simple.

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[archie]

Oh sorry, please list the appropriate posts that I am allowed to comment on

Thanks

Anyway stop derailing the thread with this nonsense

You don't think it's important so ignore it

Simple.

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It's hardly derailing a thread by referencing posts on it!

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-health-secretary-offers-to-mediate-talks-between-uk-government-and-junior-doctors


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[degenerated]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-health-secretary-offers-to-mediate-talks-between-uk-government-and-junior-doctors


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteve Barclays face would have been a picture when he read that letter

[Jack]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-health-secretary-offers-to-mediate-talks-between-uk-government-and-junior-doctors


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Back in the early days of the SNP being in power GP rewards (basically income) was negotiated on the UK wide basis.

As usual in these things the Department of Health and their Ministers took the lead, although it was supposed to be a joint effort.

After a couple of acrimonious meetings in London (obviously) the new Scottish Ministers stood up and walked out with their officials in tow, the Scottish BMA etc followed.

After a couple of meetings in Edinburgh the Scottish GPs were sorted. It was some weeks later the English deal was eventually concluded.

In Scotland the GPs and Scottish Government worked together to see how revised targets could be achieved. In England very similar targets were imposed.

[Keith_M]

There was a quite scathing article in the EEN earlier in the week about the surge in Covid numbers and how it looks like we might (yet again) be unprepared to deal with it this winter.

If that turns out the be the case, then heads need to roll, as there can be no excuse.

[silverhibee]

Anyone ever had problems with Diverticulitis and how they get on with it.

[Allant1981]

Anyone ever had problems with Diverticulitis and how they get on with it.

Haven't personally but my dad did, he ended up with laxatives for a while and antibiotics, had to look at his diet also, was told to increase his fibre intake. He seems to be ok now. Sorry not much help probably!

[silverhibee]

Haven't personally but my dad did, he ended up with laxatives for a while and antibiotics, had to look at his diet also, was told to increase his fibre intake. He seems to be ok now. Sorry not much help probably!

I was diagnosed with it about 5 years a go, now at the point where I get flare ups of it about every couple of months and have constant pain in the left side of my stomach, due to covid my referrals were put back and put back, finally seen a surgeon on Monday, surgery is the only option to resolve it but it is major surgery which the surgeon said would resolve it but huge risks come with it, he said he would see me again in 6 months to see how I am, no more antibiotics and try to stick to the diet I have been on for a few years now, looks like it is something that I will have to put up with as surgery would see me in hospital for 3-4 weeks and 3 months to recover at home and would have a colostomy bag for rest of life.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/danielgoyal/status/1703784395243434361?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[silverhibee]

My missus was taken into A&E by ambulance on Thursday night at about 8 at night, she got seen by a doctor at 4 in the morning, I’m not here to moan about staff or anything like that as I could see for myself how chaotic the place was and staff were run of their feet, the nurse that was dealing with the wife said it was just last week that things started to get worse and her words were the staff are terrified of what the winter brings for them and she thinks they won’t cope with the influx of OAPS that come in over the winter, her biggest gripe was that there was only one A&E to cover a huge area and that needed sorting, people from as far away as Berwick the Borders South Queensferry to as far out as Livingston, yes we have them at western and St John’s but are for minor injuries only, the Government really need to address this issue and get more A&E departments opened to take some pressure of the Royal, my missus has been transferred to the Western and it is quiet compared to the Royal, the A&E needs to be opened full time at western for all patients and St John’s.

[grunt]

My missus was taken into A&E by ambulance on Thursday night at about 8 at night ...
Hope she's ok.

[Ozyhibby]

My missus was taken into A&E by ambulance on Thursday night at about 8 at night, she got seen by a doctor at 4 in the morning, I’m not here to moan about staff or anything like that as I could see for myself how chaotic the place was and staff were run of their feet, the nurse that was dealing with the wife said it was just last week that things started to get worse and her words were the staff are terrified of what the winter brings for them and she thinks they won’t cope with the influx of OAPS that come in over the winter, her biggest gripe was that there was only one A&E to cover a huge area and that needed sorting, people from as far away as Berwick the Borders South Queensferry to as far out as Livingston, yes we have them at western and St John’s but are for minor injuries only, the Government really need to address this issue and get more A&E departments opened to take some pressure of the Royal, my missus has been transferred to the Western and it is quiet compared to the Royal, the A&E needs to be opened full time at western for all patients and St John’s.

Agree. We can talk about reform etc but sometimes you just need more capacity. And we have less than most European nations.


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[Pretty Boy]

My missus was taken into A&E by ambulance on Thursday night at about 8 at night, she got seen by a doctor at 4 in the morning, I’m not here to moan about staff or anything like that as I could see for myself how chaotic the place was and staff were run of their feet, the nurse that was dealing with the wife said it was just last week that things started to get worse and her words were the staff are terrified of what the winter brings for them and she thinks they won’t cope with the influx of OAPS that come in over the winter, her biggest gripe was that there was only one A&E to cover a huge area and that needed sorting, people from as far away as Berwick the Borders South Queensferry to as far out as Livingston, yes we have them at western and St John’s but are for minor injuries only, the Government really need to address this issue and get more A&E departments opened to take some pressure of the Royal, my missus has been transferred to the Western and it is quiet compared to the Royal, the A&E needs to be opened full time at western for all patients and St John’s.

My Grandad was in hospital earlier this week after another suspected TIA. He was seen quickly, tests were run and he was discharged that evening with transport home. As far as things go admittance early morning, assesment and tests late morning then results and decision by mid afternoon is good.

My mum was with him though and said two things stood out. One was how busy it was and how that impacted care, more on the compassionate side rather than the critical side. He has dementia and needs to be walked through everything now. A nurse left him a call button thing and said 'push the button if you need us' then left. The remote or whatever it is had 5 buttons on it none of which were particularly clearly marked. Had he needed them he wouldn't have had a clue. Likewise just when lunch was about to be served my mum nipped away to make a couple of calls to update us on the situation. Went back about 30 minutes later and my grandad was sitting with a sandwich in front of him but no one had removed the cellophane wrap. He isn't capable of doing that himself. No big deal for him because my mum was there but if someone was alone with the limited communication skills dementia can cause they could well have went hungry for the sake of an act that takes 5 seconds. There was no blame attributed to those doing the caring on our part. They were stretched to breaking point, almost 3 times over capacity I think was said, but those little slips in care are the result. My sister was working in the Sick Kids A&E and nipped over on her break and said she was stunned at how busy it was, said you would normally only expect that right in the depths of winter.

The second notable thing was how old most people waiting were. My Grandad is 91 and my mum said about 85% of people seemed off similar age and a lot of the issues when talking to others waiting was the same. 'My dad felt really lightheaded and faint', 'we struggled to wake my mum this morning', 'my aunt was really confused and disorientated'. It always feels to me that as face the reality of an increasingly elderly population a return of something like the cottage hospital in local communities might be useful. A first point of call for semi acute care and convalescence aimed primarily at geriatric patients that frees up A&E capacity and ward space in the bigger hospitals.

On the whole the care and outcome for my grandad was as good as it can be at his age and with a long term condition. Loads of people will have god experiences with the NHS and be happy with their care but it doesn't detract from the systemic issues the service faces and ploughing more money into more of the same isn't going to resolve those issues.

[sleeping giant]

Anyone ever had problems with Diverticulitis and how they get on with it.

I had that 2 months ago and got sent to the Western. They gave me a scan and then antibiotics.
No advice at all from them on how to manage it and advice about diet.
My GP did not follow up after sending me to hospital. I then called the surgery for a sick line and they put " abdominal pain". They didn't even check my notes.
I think that's pretty bad considering I'm in my 50's.

My mother in law was taken into the Western by ambulance and waited 36 hours for treatment for breathing issues. They ended up giving her a nebuliser to take home but did not show her what to do with it and how to get the medication in.
She deteriorated and phoned 111 where the Doctor hung up on her saying he couldn't help and further.
She then phoned an ambulance a few hours later and died the following day.

You won't be surprised that I am not impressed with the NHS.

[silverhibee]

My Grandad was in hospital earlier this week after another suspected TIA. He was seen quickly, tests were run and he was discharged that evening with transport home. As far as things go admittance early morning, assesment and tests late morning then results and decision by mid afternoon is good.

My mum was with him though and said two things stood out. One was how busy it was and how that impacted care, more on the compassionate side rather than the critical side. He has dementia and needs to be walked through everything now. A nurse left him a call button thing and said 'push the button if you need us' then left. The remote or whatever it is had 5 buttons on it none of which were particularly clearly marked. Had he needed them he wouldn't have had a clue. Likewise just when lunch was about to be served my mum nipped away to make a couple of calls to update us on the situation. Went back about 30 minutes later and my grandad was sitting with a sandwich in front of him but no one had removed the cellophane wrap. He isn't capable of doing that himself. No big deal for him because my mum was there but if someone was alone with the limited communication skills dementia can cause they could well have went hungry for the sake of an act that takes 5 seconds. There was no blame attributed to those doing the caring on our part. They were stretched to breaking point, almost 3 times over capacity I think was said, but those little slips in care are the result. My sister was working in the Sick Kids A&E and nipped over on her break and said she was stunned at how busy it was, said you would normally only expect that right in the depths of winter.

The second notable thing was how old most people waiting were. My Grandad is 91 and my mum said about 85% of people seemed off similar age and a lot of the issues when talking to others waiting was the same. 'My dad felt really lightheaded and faint', 'we struggled to wake my mum this morning', 'my aunt was really confused and disorientated'. It always feels to me that as face the reality of an increasingly elderly population a return of something like the cottage hospital in local communities might be useful. A first point of call for semi acute care and convalescence aimed primarily at geriatric patients that frees up A&E capacity and ward space in the bigger hospitals.

On the whole the care and outcome for my grandad was as good as it can be at his age and with a long term condition. Loads of people will have god experiences with the NHS and be happy with their care but it doesn't detract from the systemic issues the service faces and ploughing more money into more of the same isn't going to resolve those issues.

After the long wait to see a doctor he came in and asked a few questions about her speech and the weakness in her right side, I said she had a stroke a long time ago, he said he would be back in a minute, took him about 15 but he was away having a look at her medical history something he should have done before coming in, she was then whipped away for a ct scan, came back put on fluids antibiotics and was being given morphine, she was moved down to the western as something showed up regarding her bowel, but I am still waiting to find out what is wrong with her as they just say they are waiting for results coming back.

These waiting times will get worse as the winter comes in and the worry is that folk will just not attend hospital knowing how long the wait is, the waiting room is chaos, old people just sit and wait to be called while folk with drink and drug problems think that they are a priority because they ain’t had drugs that day, it’s a depressing place to be.

[silverhibee]

I had that 2 months ago and got sent to the Western. They gave me a scan and then antibiotics.
No advice at all from them on how to manage it and advice about diet.
My GP did not follow up after sending me to hospital. I then called the surgery for a sick line and they put " abdominal pain". They didn't even check my notes.
I think that's pretty bad considering I'm in my 50's.

My mother in law was taken into the Western by ambulance and waited 36 hours for treatment for breathing issues. They ended up giving her a nebuliser to take home but did not show her what to do with it and how to get the medication in.
She deteriorated and phoned 111 where the Doctor hung up on her saying he couldn't help and further.
She then phoned an ambulance a few hours later and died the following day.

You won't be surprised that I am not impressed with the NHS.

That is so sad to read about your mother in law.

As for diverticulitis I stopped eating takeaways and anything that is unhealthy for you at the start of the year and stuck with potatoes chicken veg pasta and it has helped, nothing greasy. A high fibre diet is the best for it.

[sleeping giant]

That is so sad to read about your mother in law.

As for diverticulitis I stopped eating takeaways and anything that is unhealthy for you at the start of the year and stuck with potatoes chicken veg pasta and it has helped, nothing greasy. A high fibre diet is the best for it.

I've totally changed my shocking diet.
All fruit and veg packed stuff now.
Saved a fortune not buying bacon and cheese nearly everyday.

[Bridge hibs]

I went into A and E a couple of years ago on the advice of my GP with a suspected pneumothorax, I was triaged in at 0930 and left at 1600. Even early in the morning midweek the place was rammed and only to get more rammed and a lot of undesirables causing bother due to the wait time. Its a ****ing grim place and I feel heartfelt sorry for the overworked staff, with the added hassle of dealing with ********s.

[McD]

My missus was taken into A&E by ambulance on Thursday night at about 8 at night, she got seen by a doctor at 4 in the morning, I’m not here to moan about staff or anything like that as I could see for myself how chaotic the place was and staff were run of their feet, the nurse that was dealing with the wife said it was just last week that things started to get worse and her words were the staff are terrified of what the winter brings for them and she thinks they won’t cope with the influx of OAPS that come in over the winter, her biggest gripe was that there was only one A&E to cover a huge area and that needed sorting, people from as far away as Berwick the Borders South Queensferry to as far out as Livingston, yes we have them at western and St John’s but are for minor injuries only, the Government really need to address this issue and get more A&E departments opened to take some pressure of the Royal, my missus has been transferred to the Western and it is quiet compared to the Royal, the A&E needs to be opened full time at western for all patients and St John’s.



Hope she’s keeping better mate



Totally agree about reopening the other A&E depts. I live quite near St John’s, a few years ago there was a car crash on a road just next to hospital, as the crow flies about 300 yards. All involved were taken straight to the ERI, this was during the day on a weekend. Surely a poor use of facilities, and a possible waste of ambulance availability

[Peanut Shaz]

Just to add to Pretty Boys post re his Grandad. It is actually my Dad who was admitted and can confirm everything he says. Staff were pleasant and professional but just completely overrun. One thing he didn’t mention was that we arrived approx 15 minutes after Dad had been admitted and sat with him for nearly 4 hours. When the Dr came to see him he said he had been trying to calll me since 11am. I explained I had no signal and he said “ oh, I didn’t know you were here, no one told me you had arrived”. So in effect he had the test results by 11 but we were left sitting until 3pm because he didn’t know we were there. As I say no real complaints because we could see for ourselves the pressure they were under..

[DaveF]

Bit of a daft situation at St Johns where they have guys at the car park entrance checking people on entry. I asked what was going on and they said they were keeping staff out as they normally fill the car park by 8am.

I get the need for visitor / patient parking but without staff, it's not much of a hospital.

[McD]

Bit of a daft situation at St Johns where they have guys at the car park entrance checking people on entry. I asked what was going on and they said they were keeping staff out as they normally fill the car park by 8am.

I get the need for visitor / patient parking but without staff, it's not much of a hospital.



It is daft mate, my wife works there, it’s the same every morning, backing traffic up towards the main road. Yet if you say you have an appointment at either the hospital or health centre, you’re waved through without any question. There’s been murmurs for years about building a multi-storey carpark for staff, but there’s no money for it. Staff are supposed to apply for a parking permit to park there.


The checks at the gate were started a few years ago as there was a decent number of staff parking there to get a free shuttle through to the ERI, and people using it for a free place to park and carshare elsewhere, which was clogging up the limited parking spaces for people who actually worked/patients there.


The parking situation there needs to be looked at, but they have no funds for building anything. At certain times of day it can be virtually impossible to get parked.

[Andy Bee]

It is daft mate, my wife works there, it’s the same every morning, backing traffic up towards the main road. Yet if you say you have an appointment at either the hospital or health centre, you’re waved through without any question. There’s been murmurs for years about building a multi-storey carpark for staff, but there’s no money for it. Staff are supposed to apply for a parking permit to park there.


The checks at the gate were started a few years ago as there was a decent number of staff parking there to get a free shuttle through to the ERI, and people using it for a free place to park and carshare elsewhere, which was clogging up the limited parking spaces for people who actually worked/patients there.


The parking situation there needs to be looked at, but they have no funds for building anything. At certain times of day it can be virtually impossible to get parked.


My sons partner is a nurse, she has to park down Livi Village way and walk to the hospital. Apparently if you stay a certain number of miles away you get a parking pass to park round the back of the hospital.

[McD]

My sons partner is a nurse, she has to park down Livi Village way and walk to the hospital. Apparently if you stay a certain number of miles away you get a parking pass to park round the back of the hospital.



Yeah there’s various rules and regs around the staff parking. My wife has a pass as she has a disability, and technically works in the health centre rather than the hospital (also apparently there’s all sorts of politics around who ‘owns’ the main carpark, hospital or health centre :rolleyes:). The car parking at the back of this hospital wasn’t there originally, and was added for staff, but still struggling to cope with the volume of vehicles. There’s been instances of hospital staff’s cars being vandalised in residential streets nearby.


A good while back the nhs arranged to use the carpark at Livingston stadium as an overflow, but the gist of it was that nhs staff would be expected to walk down a dark quiet(ish) road and across a dark carpark late in the evening, which caused a backlash at the thought of women (and men tbf) having to do that alone and potentially vulnerable.

[hibee]

Bit of a daft situation at St Johns where they have guys at the car park entrance checking people on entry. I asked what was going on and they said they were keeping staff out as they normally fill the car park by 8am.

I get the need for visitor / patient parking but without staff, it's not much of a hospital.

You could argue it’s not much of a hospital if the patients can’t get there either.

East Lothian community hospital is the same, if your appointment is between around 9-2 there’s no chance of a patient getting parked because the staff have taken all the spaces and they don’t do anything about it there so no checks on the way in.

[JimBHibees]

Was wondering if there was any analysis done on whether brexit has resulted in a significant loss in foreign staff across the uk. Seems it significantly has. Wonder how this will ever likely to be improved enough to fulfil the required capacity. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was seen as a positive outcome by the wealthy and influential cabal who pushed Brexit.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/27/brexit-worsened-shortage-nhs-doctors-eu

[Stairway 2 7]

Was wondering if there was any analysis done on whether brexit has resulted in a significant loss in foreign staff across the uk. Seems it significantly has

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/27/brexit-worsened-shortage-nhs-doctors-eu

Seems a fair rebuttal of the statistics at the end though. The article seems daft if it doesn't include the number of non EU doctors and nurses. Brexit caused an explosion of immigration 2.1 million net increase in migration in 3 years, mostly from outside EU. The problem is we're about to undo that with making it harder for migrants to bring dependents, being stricter on foreign students, raising the wages threshold and decreasing net migration to a few hundred thousand per year. Looking at the figures the amount of foreign nurses registered last year was more than double the year before brexit, it's just they are mainly from India and the Philippines

The Department of Health and Social Care rejected the thinktank’s findings.

A spokesperson said: “This analysis is inaccurate and we don’t recognise or agree with its key conclusions. We are making significant progress in training and recruiting a record number of nurses, doctors and healthcare professionals. There are over 9,000 more nurses working in the NHS and there are over 26,000 more hospital doctors now than in 2016.”

In 2022/23, over 24,000 new nurses were registered who were trained outside the UK, which is a 32-year high

The proportion of new international nurse registrants as a total of all new annual registrants on the UK register has increased substantially in the past 5 years and reached a two-decade high in 2021/22

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-reliant-is-the-nhs-in-england-on-international-nurse-recruitment

[overdrive]

Phoned the GP this morning. Receptionist asked what’s wrong. She then told me to go to the pharmacist and hung up on me. Just been to the pharmacist and he said I need to see a GP. Can see me going round in circles here

[Moulin Yarns]

Phoned the GP this morning. Receptionist asked what’s wrong. She then told me to go to the pharmacist and hung up on me. Just been to the pharmacist and he said I need to see a GP. Can see me going round in circles here

Next stop, A&E. 😉

[hibee]

Phoned the GP this morning. Receptionist asked what’s wrong. She then told me to go to the pharmacist and hung up on me. Just been to the pharmacist and he said I need to see a GP. Can see me going round in circles here

And if you do eventually get an appointment you’ll likely be the only person in the waiting room, no idea what the GP’s are doing all day.

[Bridge hibs]

Phoned the GP this morning. Receptionist asked what’s wrong. She then told me to go to the pharmacist and hung up on me. Just been to the pharmacist and he said I need to see a GP. Can see me going round in circles here

Same happened to me a few years ago, round and round and round in ****ing circles, that was the whole reason for seeing my GP in the first place

****ing dizziness !

[Andy Bee]

Robin McAlpine letting loose on the SG and more specifically Neil Gray over the National Care Service. He aint holding back.

https://robinmcalpine.org/fix-your-care-service-what-a-brass-neck/

[Sergio sledge]

Next stop, A&E. 😉

I know you are joking, but therein lies one of the problems facing A&E at the minute, too many people passed round the houses end up just going to A&E in order to just get someone to see them because the GP can't or won't.

[Jack]

I've taken this from elsewhere. It's a sad set of affairs compared to the SNP who took office all these years ago.

(The LMC = Lothian Local Medical Committee is the representative body for all NHS General Medical Practitioners within Lothian Health Board area. Our basic principles are to support, represent and communicate with General Practice.)

This was issued by the LMC earlier this year and explains why the whole thing is a mess. Please do get in touch with your MP as this isn’t going to get better. A long read but well worth it.

STATEMENT FROM LOTHIAN LMC (Local Medical Committee)

Why are your GP practices now unable to do everything they once were?

General Practice across the country has been struggling for years. However it has now reached a critical situation with less money, less doctors and less staff to meet the growing needs of the Scottish population. So how did we get here?
In 2017, the Scottish Government recognised this and promised to introduce a new contract, starting in 2018 and to be fully implemented within 3 years. At the time, the then Health Secretary Shona Robison MSP (now Deputy First Minister) said “We equally recognised the fundamental challenges faced by general practice, not least growing workload and increasing risk”.
Unfortunately, for the first time in the history of the NHS, large parts of this contract have not been implemented. Even worse, when Health Boards haven’t been able to spend the money that they were given to employ additional pharmacists and other professionals to support General Practice, the money has had to be returned to Scottish Government rather than being able to be spent supporting your local practice.
Scottish Government promised transitional payments to practices to recognise the non-delivery of this contract, but then withdrew that funding, even after some practices had already used the money for additional cover.
There have been many further challenges both local and national since then;
• Over half of the practices in Lothian have recently received huge bills for their facilities from NHS Lothian, over and above what they were already paying. This will amount to £1.6 million per year across the practices affected and, without any additional funding coming into practices, it’s likely this will lead to reduced staffing, with fewer appointments and longer waits to be seen.

• All practices in Lothian are impacted by Scottish Government not funding an increase in compulsory pension contributions. This is only occurring in General Practice in Scotland as English and Welsh Governments have already committed to paying this, and there is funding in place for all staff in hospitals. Again, this comes out of the funding available to practices to pay for administrative staff, nurses and doctors.

• Many people don’t know that the funding for practices comes through a national formula and doesn’t reflect how many times patients are seen. Practices are paid the same whether you are seen once or a hundred times per year. In 2017, the Scottish Government recognised that it wasn’t sufficient and promised to move towards a new funding model. This still hasn’t happened, and the funding uplifts have been substantially below inflation since then.

• The average patient used to contact their practice 3-4 times per year. This has increased to 6-7. The reasons for this are multiple and include more elderly, more people with illness (often multiple) and more treatment options. The large growth in waiting lists has also had a big impact, with GP appointments being taken up with ongoing management whilst awaiting definitive procedures.

• We all know how much energy costs have risen over the last couple of years and with insufficient funding to cover this, again this money comes out of the services practices can provide.

• Part of the funding which comes from government every year is earmarked for non-GP staff pay rises e.g. receptionists, nursing staff, practice managers. This has always matched what was given to staff working elsewhere in the NHS. But for the first time last year, the Scottish Government decided to break this link, meaning practices had to fund the shortfall or risk losing staff.

• The number of GPs in Scotland is falling. As part of the 2017 contract the Scottish Government promised that numbers would rise by 800, however when doctors in training are excluded from the figures, the numbers are actually reducing! Since 2013, the GP WTE (whole time equivalent) workforce has fallen by 5.35% - a fall of 196.7 WTE GPs. In that same time period, the number of practices has fallen by 9%, average list sizes have increased by 18% and the total patient population has increased by 7%. 42% of practices in Scotland report at least one GP vacancy. The number of GP partners has reduced by 14% between 2012 and 2022. In the last 20 years the ratio of GPs to hospital consultants has halved, despite many things which used to be done in hospital now commonly being done in practice, and this reflects the falling share of the NHS budget spent in General Practice.

• In many areas, practice buildings are too small and are outdated. Unfortunately, Scottish Government has now cancelled all funding for new builds, leaving many working out of buildings no longer fit for purpose. Scottish Government has also withdrawn sustainability loans, a scheme to reduce the risk for GPs who own their building. This leads to financial loss which again impacts on the services they can deliver.

• With less staff and more work, better IT would help improve efficiency. Our IT is cumbersome and unreliable which often impacts on the care of our patients, increasing inefficiency and damaging staff morale. We are the only country in Britain still using paper prescriptions - this alone costs a huge amount of clinical, administrative and patient time.

• In order to make systems better we need time to learn and develop. We used to receive ten half days per year to work with our teams on making practices better for everyone. The support for this was withdrawn by NHS24 and Scottish Government have done very little to reintroduce any form of reliable support.

Incredibly, despite all that we have just described, your practice remains absolutely committed to provide the best service that it can.

However, if you’re not satisfied with the service you receive, look beyond the practice and instead hold those with the power to improve matters to account. Scottish Government needs to do more to directly support General Practice, the bedrock of the NHS. Please contact your MSP. Their contact details can be found at Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs) | Scottish Parliament Website

Lothian LMC
May 2024

[Stairway 2 7]

My niece works as a receptionist. She's 22 worked there a year and now is the longest lasting in the team as it's hellish. She says doctors work about 3 days a week mostly and are constantly on long weekends. She said last Monday only one GP was in and was only coming in from 12. The spaces for him were full in seconds but she had to spend all day saying sorry no availability. I said can they not just put on a message saying full but they need to vet each calls for emergencies ect but generally just listen to abuse all day.

She says some days no GPs are in so they send mass texts about staff training or repairs happening.

She also says everyone thinks Monday will be busiest time to call so people call on a Tuesday which is actually the busiest day

[J-C]

Got my flu/covid winter job text through, offered me Haddington or N Berwick, eh that'll be right, went online to get the Musselburgh health centre, earliest is Sunday 10th Nov ffs.

[silverhibee]

My niece works as a receptionist. She's 22 worked there a year and now is the longest lasting in the team as it's hellish. She says doctors work about 3 days a week mostly and are constantly on long weekends. She said last Monday only one GP was in and was only coming in from 12. The spaces for him were full in seconds but she had to spend all day saying sorry no availability. I said can they not just put on a message saying full but they need to vet each calls for emergencies ect but generally just listen to abuse all day.

She says some days no GPs are in so they send mass texts about staff training or repairs happening.

She also says everyone thinks Monday will be busiest time to call so people call on a Tuesday which is actually the busiest day

No problems at my GP, I phone in the morning and get to see a doctor that day, that’s at Murrayfield, but even at Muirhouse surgery there was never a problem with getting an appointment.

[Stairway 2 7]

No problems at my GP, I phone in the morning and get to see a doctor that day, that’s at Murrayfield, but even at Muirhouse surgery there was never a problem with getting an appointment.

Your very lucky there's more chance of winning the league cup than me getting a same day appointment at my doctors. Probably shouldn't name the practice but it's a less affluent area of east Edinburgh she works at

No idea why GPs are allowed to be basically privatised contractors.

[Jack]

Your very lucky there's more chance of winning the league cup than me getting a same day appointment at my doctors. Probably shouldn't name the practice but it's a less affluent area of east Edinburgh she works at

No idea why GPs are allowed to be basically privatised contractors.

Much will depend on what's wrong with you as to whether you'll be seen that day.

GPs wouldn't have joined the NHS in 1947 if they hadn't been allowed to maintain their private contractor status. Having said that the number of them is decreasing every year as the health boards take them over.