The non hysterical case for a new manager

[Northernhibee]

This form is now no longer just a bad run, you could see in the first half that confidence was low. The longer it goes on for, the bigger the task to turn it around.

From 2011-2014, we were in a slump that spiralled and led to our ultimate relegation. We’re in nothing like as bad a situation like the 13-14 season but the general trend for us is that we’re getting weaker. The longer we leave this untreated the more ingrained it becomes in the team.

We don’t seem to be able to put together 90 minutes of consistent football as a rule and although there have been exceptions to this, they’re few and far between.

Commercially we need to give fans some hope to latch onto. The attendances reflect a lack of hope and although attendances for a lot of events are reduced, it’s a bit alarming. We need to invest money in the team and season ticket sales are in danger of being disasterous.

We’ve shown a bit more endeavour recently and if the club want to give him the cup final then fair enough, but it feels like the rot is beginning to set in and we need to look in a new direction. I’ve defended Jack in more emotionally charged arguments over his time here but don’t see how he wins the fans back nor he gets us into Europe.

Thanks Jack - you’re a good guy and I’d like a beer with you, but we need something different going forward.

[WeeRussell]

A sensible and constructive post. I think the vast majority of folk that disagree with you (and I may still be one of those) will have no issue with your case and they way you’ve presented it.

[Pretty Boy]

I thought Ross reacted well to the situation today.

We could have been dead and buried after half an hour. He made a proactive change and we were the better side from then on.

I'm still in the camp of not really being that bothered about him staying or going. I'm not sure today pushed me any further towards wanting a change though.

[Since452]

I think it would be a massive own goal if we got rid of Ross. My opinion may change if we are toiling beyond the winter break.

[GoalsMcGinley]

I think it would be a massive own goal if we got rid of Ross. My opinion may change if we are toiling beyond the winter break.

We are toiling before the winter break.


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[Since452]

We are toiling before the winter break.


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I know

[Gerard]

I think JR has had plenty of time to make his mark at our club. It is time to look at a new HC for our club.

[MWHIBBIES]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

[Northernhibee]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

Bad luck is rarely a long term thing, it’s usually a problem that needs resolved.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I know

Newsflash - we're in a Cup Final in 2 weeks time.

[madhatter]

If stadium gets any more empty then club won't really have a choice.

I don't think many fans, certainly on here, actually hate Jack Ross. I suppose in fairness to him, club and Ron Gordon keep talking about ambitious plans, already talking about bringing back the infrastructure days by getting an indoor facility at HTC, all while our ST numbers are going down, our attendances are going down, we are on an awful run of form and many people just have a "meh" feeling about Hibs.

I couldn't wait to get back to the football after all the lockdown business. Since the passport business came into play and new Covid concerns combined with our performances, judge me if you will but I've just not been bothered to go along. I've paid my money in the ST, Hibs store, HSL and HibsTV so I think I've done the necessary financial support side of this. Must admit, not solely down to current form, but I'm already questioning whether I renew for next season. I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Club need to stop talking all the positive vibes stuff and actually do something to strengthen our position as a football club. Feels a lot like Farmer and Petrie days - infrastructure and things around the club rather than the players on the pitch.

Club need to step up their game, with Jack Ross or without.

[GoalsMcGinley]

If stadium gets any more empty then club won't really have a choice.

I don't think many fans, certainly on here, actually hate Jack Ross. I suppose in fairness to him, club and Ron Gordon keep talking about ambitious plans, already talking about bringing back the infrastructure days by getting an indoor facility at HTC, all while our ST numbers are going down, our attendances are going down, we are on an awful run of form and many people just have a "meh" feeling about Hibs.

I couldn't wait to get back to the football after all the lockdown business. Since the passport business came into play and new Covid concerns combined with our performances, judge me if you will but I've just not been bothered to go along. I've paid my money in the ST, Hibs store, HSL and HibsTV so I think I've done the necessary financial support side of this. Must admit, not solely down to current form, but I'm already questioning whether I renew for next season. I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Club need to stop talking all the positive vibes stuff and actually do something to strengthen our position as a football club. Feels a lot like Farmer and Petrie days - infrastructure and things around the club rather than the players on the pitch.

Club need to step up their game, with Jack Ross or without.

As the OP said this is no longer a bad run of form and those who can’t see it need to take a right hard look at the situation.


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[Since452]

Newsflash - we're in a Cup Final in 2 weeks time.

That's great but the league form is atrocious. There are mitigating circumstances though which is why I've said I'd like to see him get the January window then see how we get on after the break. I have a feeling this could be a season of two halves.

[loanheadhibby]

I think it would be a massive own goal if we got rid of Ross. My opinion may change if we are toiling beyond the winter break.
You must feel that JR will turn things around then.
Personally I don't see it but hopefully I'm wrong.

[SlickShoes]

We had a terrible summer recruitment period which has been acknowledged and we can’t rectify that yet, we have the players we have. Sometimes they let the manager down and sometimes they don’t, the way we set up today wasn’t bad, we created more chances and should have won, the big players we have are missing key chances we create and the defenders are making costly mistakes. Without being able to currently replace anyone in the playing staff not much is going to change.

[Yorkshire HFC]

That's great but the league form is atrocious. There are mitigating circumstances though which is why I've said I'd like to see him get the January window then see how we get on after the break. I have a feeling this could be a season of two halves.

If we can win the cup and finish 1 place above relegation, then it will have been a great season.

[The Modfather]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

It’s not a bad Hibs team, it’s not a good or exciting team either IMO. We’ve invested more than most other Hibs teams so expectations should also align with the increased invest IMO.

[loanheadhibby]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.
I agree with you regarding the game today but our league form is atrocious and Jack Ross has a huge job on his hands starting with improving our record at ER.

[Nicho87]

Quite simple now

Ross must go

[Vini1875]

Although we have a lot of very decent players, we still look like a very poor team. JR does not seem able to gel the team into an inspired unit. We are dull, with the occassional bright spot.

[Lancs Harp]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

one win, one draw and six defeats or whatever it is now in the league isnt what a good team is like thats for sure. We should be doing a lot better. Our first half performance against Rangers in the semi a few weeks ago was great, so we know we can play, too many turgid or moderate league performances over the last cuple of months. I'm not Jacks greatest fan, never have been, Im not calling for his head or making a song and dance about it but things need to improve and quickly. Hopefully we'll make a couple of key signings in the January window but that window is nororiously difficult to make good signings in.

[Vault Boy]

I said in October that I felt we were a good while from seriously considering the manager's position. We're significantly closer to that point here in December.

The club have publicly said they didn't back the manager properly in the summer, I'd imagine that buys him until just after January. Unless we continue to drop like a stone before then, of course.

[Since452]

You must feel that JR will turn things around then.
Personally I don't see it but hopefully I'm wrong.

I don't think we're playing badly at the moment but we need to start winning and winning soon. Very unlucky today but I'm getting a bit tired of saying that. Someone on the match day thread mentioned we were well on top and I said that that'll be a Motherwell goal incoming. 2 mins later that happened. It's so predictable. Ross must be pulling his hair out as much as me. It's a results driven business though so it needs to change soon.

[neil7908]

I always felt that JR would eventually have a problem when we started hitting a bad spell of results.

The style of football has never been great, but he's improved us and he win record is impressive.

However, now that results have turned and winter is upon us, I (and it looks like many others) are finding other things to do than get down to ER on a Saturday. I just don't feel a massive affinity with the manager and although I realise this is unfair, I still have a lot of anger at the missed chances for glory last season.

I think he needs a bit more time but lose the cup final, and continue to struggle for the rest of December and I'd be wary about having him still in charge when we will hopefully invest in January.

[Jim44]

It appears that a vocal minority want JR out immediately. The majority, while disappointed, are willing to stick by him for the foreseeable future. I think RG will stick by him. I honestly think that if we got a new guy in now, we might move upwards but are equally, if not more likely to sink even further. A new manager now would be a gamble. I think we should stick by him and see how things pan out in the second half of the season. If we continue to drift downwards, while I don’t think there is the remotest chance of a relegation struggle, I would support the case for a change for next season.

[SChibs]

To the people who want Jack Ross out who do they suggest Hibs bring in?

[madhatter]

It appears that a vocal minority want JR out immediately. The majority, while disappointed, are willing to stick by him for the foreseeable future. I think RG will stick by him. I honestly think that if we got a new guy in now, we might move upwards but are equally, if not more likely to sink even further. A new manager now would be a gamble. I think we should stick by him and see how things pan out in the second half of the season. If we continue to drift downwards, while I don’t think there is the remotest chance of a relegation struggle, I would support the case for a change for next season.

How have you weighed up "minority" and "majority"? A sizeable number of fans are not turning up to games. Based on our attendances and atmosphere at ER, I think this "vocal minority" are actually not that vocal (unless booing) and are quickly changing their status from "minority" to "majority". More than likely most will be staying at home or finding better things to do. Not turning up and not coming on here or social media platforms to have a go or a debate. Apathy has crept in, quite a few fans are getting to stage of not caring what the club does with regards to JR or otherwise. I wouldn't mistake the apathy and general likeable nature of JR as willingness to stick by him. Willingness to stick by him would surely mean they would turn up to ER?

[GoalsMcGinley]

It appears that a vocal minority want JR out immediately. The majority, while disappointed, are willing to stick by him for the foreseeable future. I think RG will stick by him. I honestly think that if we got a new guy in now, we might move upwards but are equally, if not more likely to sink even further. A new manager now would be a gamble. I think we should stick by him and see how things pan out in the second half of the season. If we continue to drift downwards, while I don’t think there is the remotest chance of a relegation struggle, I would support the case for a change for next season.

This sounds familiar


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[big gogs]

Quite simple now

Ross must go
Who do you bring in.

[The Modfather]

To the people who want Jack Ross out who do they suggest Hibs bring in?

I’d use the same thorough recruitment process as the club would use if someone came in for Ross tomorrow or if he was to resign. Failing that I could just list some names, like Alex Neil, without any knowledge of what budget we are working to or how obtainable those names are.

[MWHIBBIES]

This sounds familiar


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Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

[A Hi-Bee]

Should he stay or should he go, I dont know I am getting to the stage that I dont care either way, things will not change anytime soon, building a team is a long haul but not sure just how long he may have left if the league position dont start to get better.

:flag::flag::flag:

[Since452]

Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

[MWHIBBIES]

Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

Correct

[GreenCastle]

I thought Ross reacted well to the situation today.

We could have been dead and buried after half an hour. He made a proactive change and we were the better side from then on.

I'm still in the camp of not really being that bothered about him staying or going. I'm not sure today pushed me any further towards wanting a change though.

That last paragraph is kind of an issue.

Should we not be happy with the manager and wanting him to stay.

He seems to be like marmite or something in between. Some can’t stand him..some think he’s doing ok..some think he’s fantastic.

The poll on here recently showed most didn’t mind him or wanted a change and the semi final has definitely shown when he gets it right it’s very good and that’s got him some time in the bank.

How this team does between now and cup final will decide his future - even maybe up till the derby.

I said we over achieved last season and would be hard to follow - we didn’t improve / strengthen the player pool in summer and it’s hurting us / has hurt us with key players missing - not enough goals / conceding too many from crosses.

[GreenCastle]

Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

Yeah we aren’t at Butcher levels - the players are playing for the manger but the lack of creativity and goals - plus poor defending is costing us. Inconsistent performances = inconsistent results = mid table.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Whether the players stopped playing for Ross or not is irrelevant. The similarities between the 2 seasons are clear. We’re on our worst run of form since that season. If you think JR can turn it around fair enough but I’ve a sinking feeling in my stomach that says you’re wrong (people saying we’re too good to get relegated have short memories. I don’t think we will tbf but it’s bottom 6 for us this season).


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[madhatter]

To the people who want Jack Ross out who do they suggest Hibs bring in?

A new person? Really confused at this question.

Are we really at the stage as a club that during a long run of bad form with dwindling support at ER contemplation among supporters about a new manager is thwarted by a "better the devil you know" type of thing? Are we genuinely expecting an Alex Ferguson moment with Jack Ross and the club? Club talk about stability and not having a 3rd place finish one season and then bottom 6 the next. Talk is cheap and, evidently, unless we somehow go on a complete stormer thumping every team we will struggle to avoid what now seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jack Ross is not solely to blame for this. However, if club have the drive and confidence to get rid of Graeme Mathie then Jack Ross shouldn't be untouchable. On that note, club got rid of Graeme Mathie, did we all question the club on who they suggested came in to replace? Who has replaced him?

[Nicho87]

Who do you bring in.

Alex Neil

[GreenCastle]

He 100% won’t be going anywhere before the cup final.

The derby could be interesting to see how we handle that.

[Since452]

What a refreshing thread this is. No daft arguments just a good debate. Well done the OP.

[MWHIBBIES]

Whether the players stopped playing for Ross or not is irrelevant. The similarities between the 2 seasons are clear. We’re on our worst run of form since that season. If you think JR can turn it around fair enough but I’ve a sinking feeling in my stomach that says you’re wrong (people saying we’re too good to get relegated have short memories. I don’t think we will tbf but it’s bottom 6 for us this season).


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No similarities at all. That fact you've not mentioned any tells me that.

You genuinely did not watch that hopeless team if you think this is the same.

[Jim44]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

This is the most telling sentence I’ve read here for several weeks.

[GreenCastle]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

I just think people have raised expectations and why not.

Some still remember the awful football with Butcher etc but keeping it in perspective we should be doing better with the resources and after last season.

Having not pushed on means frustration and feels like we are going backwards and others forwards.

I’m not for changing the manager but I definitely think we need improved players.

[BlackSheep]

I’m definitely in the camp that doesn’t see any real reason to change manager.

I actually think Ross is doing a good job, but the squad is missing a couple of key players and competition for first team places.

I hope Mueller hits the ground running and perhaps adds a finishing touch to our attacking play… which generally is where I feel we seem to be underperforming, not creating clear cut chance or finishing off the few we do!

Today showed exactly that… good crosses and attacking play with no one finishing them off, I mean 2 off the line and 1 smashed off the bar. A bit of luck would help but you can’t bank on luck!

I’m happy to give JR more time.

[Northernhibee]

It appears that a vocal minority want JR out immediately. The majority, while disappointed, are willing to stick by him for the foreseeable future. I think RG will stick by him. I honestly think that if we got a new guy in now, we might move upwards but are equally, if not more likely to sink even further. A new manager now would be a gamble. I think we should stick by him and see how things pan out in the second half of the season. If we continue to drift downwards, while I don’t think there is the remotest chance of a relegation struggle, I would support the case for a change for next season.

It’s not a vocal minority, you’ll find that I’ve been supportive of JR up to last month.

Going by attendances it’s not hysteria, it’s not anger but a large chunk of the support has absolute apathy which is the most difficult to appease.

[One Day Soon]

My previous position on this was pretty much not fussed if he stays and not fussed if he goes. The fact that I'm now trying to work out what looks like it is improving or on an upward trend under JR probably moves me substantially towards 'this isn't working'.

Our league form is terrible.
Our performances seem to range between awful on the one hand and adequate and promising on the other without actually improving particularly.
Our squad remains frustratingly full of potentially decent players who largely seem to consistently under perform.
Our tactics look questionable (particularly substitutions) and we definitely seem risk averse in our match day approach.
The squad is imbalanced - we have nowhere near enough pace and we massively over rely on Boyle up front.
The quality of football we play seems to reflect the manager's public persona; unexciting, passionless and generally a bit insipid.
We are prone to very costly self-inflicted defensive mistakes.
I don't see a recognisable captain figure on the park.
ER is the opposite of a fortress.
The atmosphere and numbers at ER are now very tepid - partly the fault of Covid and winter but mostly, I think, due to our results and our performances

He's had two years in charge and four transfer windows so far to develop his squad and playing style. I'm not sure I can see a clearl plan in action in terms of the squad and the playing style he is looking for.

If we lose the cup final we will likely be in the position of having very little to show for this season other than a good cup run. And that is in a league which contains mostly indifferent teams.

I'm left asking the question, 'what is the Jack Ross plan for transforming our squad and playing style from here and what has he put in the goodwill bank in the two years he's had so far to make us think this is going somewhere?'

[Allant1981]

Quite simple now

Ross must go

Dont think you have mentioned it before now

[Sir David Gray]

Lose the cup final, the derby and less than 10 points from our remaining matches between now and the derby and I think he should go.

[Heisenberg]

I think he’s pretty much nailed on to get the January window to try and sort it. Only way I can see that changing is if he doesn’t get another win between now and then.

[WhileTheChief..]

Whilst we might not be a bad team, we are in the middle of a disastrous run of results that even our worst managers probably never endured.

I still don’t really blame JR though. We’re just back to being a nice comfy club to come play football. There’s no real pressure on anyone to perform.

The recent extended contracts for players just means more of the same for another couple of seasons.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I thought Motherwell scored when we were at our strongest, we also had 2/3 blatant chances that we squandered.

Ross isn’t daft, I think we give him January to see how the squad shapes up without Mathies influence and then that’ll give us a clear indicator whether he is the guy or not.

Away from current form he is clearly an intelligent guy and I suspect that whether or not he finishes in failure or is poached from Easter Road he will have success elsewhere.

Edit - As an aside we’ve had some shocking managers in the past, my opinion is we should trust someone with their head screwed on to pick things up again.

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[MWHIBBIES]

Lose the cup final, the derby and less than 10 points from our remaining matches between now and the derby and I think he should go.

Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

[Since452]

We had a very poor summer window then had injuries to key players all at once which showed that up. The Covid outbreak has just compounded matters. I think Ross has been very unlucky with all that. Mentioned earlier that I think this could be a season of two halves. I can see us being very strong after the winter break with the new faces and the likes of Magennis back, Doidge up to speed etc. This might come back to haunt me but I think we're going to hand someone a heavy beating very soon.

[PolmontHibby]

Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Correct - Butcher/Malpas was a masterclass in how not to manage a team - we are nowhere near that in my view (though the St Mirren/Allan saga was very poor, as was Watford/Doig for different reasons).

[Northernhibee]

Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

I don’t think he has loads more losses in the bank. We have to start winning now.

[LeithMike]

I don't think mid-season is a time to change manager unless you are desperate in need of turnaround - which we aren't. Sometimes you get a new manager bounce but often you don't.

Let's wait until the end of the season. I'm not his biggest fan but JR has earned until the end of the season unless we get in relegation trouble.

Who also would we get? There is no obvious candidate. I wouldn't mind McInnes but he would split the support and most probably dont want him.

We are starting to look a bit better again (although only played in bursts today). Nisbet, in particular, looking a lot more interested. I though today was the perfect game to start Scott Allan though.

Again, what's letting us down is the midfield. We aren't able to control the game and the balance just isn't right yet.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm happy to give him a bit more time, as I think he's earned that right. That said, our form is terrible, which can't continue indefinitely. Four points from twenty-four isn't sustainable for any manager. The next three league games are huge for the manager: Livi, St Mirren and Dundee are teams we should be beating. If we don't win any of those, I don't see how he survives.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

Absolutely.

However I don't think he would (or necessarily should) go if we got the run of results I outlined above but we were currently sitting clear in 3rd place.

We're not though, we're in a real slump in the league and it is becoming quite alarming. A continuation of that slump over the next month should probably see him replaced.

[MWHIBBIES]

I don’t think he has loads more losses in the bank. We have to start winning now.

We didn't lose today you know?

[Northernhibee]

We didn't lose today you know?

That’s a very low bar you’re setting there.

[GreenCastle]

I think he’s pretty much nailed on to get the January window to try and sort it. Only way I can see that changing is if he doesn’t get another win between now and then.

Ben likes Jack and I you would expect work is well underway to identify abs bring in new players.

Though history tells us that January is usually short term loans rather than long term signings. Ok we have Mueller but we need more and I expect a few to move on to create space.

I think the contracts of new players will surely add some stability rather than worry. Thought JDH has been back to his better level of performances recently. But I get the new contract and get comfortable situation but what we need is competition for places and we don’t have enough of that - hence why the same team nearly plays every week.

[Stuart93]

Jack Ross must be under pressure now

4 points from 24 available is a very poor run

[Magpie]

More defeats than wins and a negative goal difference after 15 games isn’t great. I agree we have a good team, I feel they could be utilised better though. Season tickets will be the lowest we have had in years next season.

[MWHIBBIES]

That’s a very low bar you’re setting there.

Not really. If Campbell scores instead of hitting underside of bar you'd have to find something else to moan about. Fine margins between. Net meltdown and great result. That's standard though.

[MWHIBBIES]

More defeats than wins and a negative goal difference after 15 games isn’t great. I agree we have a good team, I feel they could be utilised better though. Season tickets will be the lowest we have had in years next season.

If we win the league Cup and start turning performances into results, we'll sell plenty. Far too early for claims like that.

[B.H.F.C]

Not really. If Campbell scores instead of hitting underside of bar you'd have to find something else to moan about. Fine margins between. Net meltdown and great result. That's standard though.

If. Big word that. Folk aren’t just reacting to the game today, are they?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Jack Ross must be under pressure now

4 points from 24 available is a very poor run

Any manager in the SPL would be under pressure in the same circumstances, not just at Hibs. This is a poor league and such a run isn't good enough. As I said, we have several of the weaker teams coming up, so let's see how it goes. He needs a couple of wins from somewhere at this point.

[Greenworld]

I though Josh Campbell had his best game today . Perhaps other young players might be the answer to save his skin. If we hit xmas without any wins I think its goodbye.
That said we have been very very unlucky not to win tday

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[loanheadhibby]

We didn't lose today you know?

Did not win either tho. Pressure surely has to be building?

[MWHIBBIES]

If. Big word that. Folk aren’t just reacting to the game today, are they?

It's not a big word. Their goal woodwork and in, our shot woodwork and out. You think a manager should be binned on that?

What else are they reacting to? Results from weeks and months ago?

[Nicho87]

Dont think you have mentioned it before now

Until we are out of this mess, it will keep on getting mentioned.

[Stuart93]

It's not a big word. Their goal woodwork and in, our shot woodwork and out. You think a manager should be binned on that?

What else are they reacting to? Results from weeks and months ago?

Probably reacting to 4 points out of 24 available most likely

[MWHIBBIES]

Until we are out of this mess, it will keep on getting mentioned.

Yeah, what on earth are you going to post about when we turn this round?

[Northernhibee]

Not really. If Campbell scores instead of hitting underside of bar you'd have to find something else to moan about. Fine margins between. Net meltdown and great result. That's standard though.

If’s don’t keep you in jobs though, results do.

[Heisenberg]

It's not a big word. Their goal woodwork and in, our shot woodwork and out. You think a manager should be binned on that?

What else are they reacting to? Results from weeks and months ago?

You make a good point and it’s back to those fine margins that folk hate so much.

I will say I understand where the angst is coming from, JR needs to start winning games again. European qualification is looking like a long shot at the minute which is a poor place to be given the base we had to build from.

[MWHIBBIES]

If’s don’t keep you in jobs though, results do.

Na, good results just keep miserable folk quiet until you get a few bad ones.

[Inconsequential]

Here we go. Change the manager, let's go again, hire and fire. The way it's always been done at Hibs. Why keep doing the same things and expect different results? Pay compensation to the former employee, pay compensation to the new employee's club. Less money for new players, have a clear out and start again. I am sick of that carry-on. Why not stick for once and see what happens. Things can change quickly in football the club could be cup winners in a couple of weeks. Persevere.

[B.H.F.C]

It's not a big word. Their goal woodwork and in, our shot woodwork and out. You think a manager should be binned on that?

What else are they reacting to? Results from weeks and months ago?

You know fine we’ll that folk aren’t just basing their opinions on JR from today. You might not agree with the views of others but you know they haven’t formed them based on today. And those views are why we’re currently playing in a half empty stadium.

[Magpie]

It’s a results driven business, if we take another 4 from our next 24 available points he be gone. We should be taking at least 7 points from our next 3 games though.

[One Day Soon]

Not really. If Campbell scores instead of hitting underside of bar you'd have to find something else to moan about. Fine margins between. Net meltdown and great result. That's standard though.


'If' has been doing quite a lot of work in these discussions for a while now.

We have won just 2 of our last 9 league games and more worryingly we've lost 6 out of those 9. A look at the Flashscores form guide over the last ten games puts us bottom of the league with only 8 points from a possible 30 and a goal difference in that period showing us conceding twice what we have scored.

Like opinion polls in politics what we should really be worrying about is the trend, not the individual snapshot. The trend is terrible and 'coulda, shoulda' doesn't get us away from that.

[MWHIBBIES]

You make a good point and it’s back to those fine margins that folk hate so much.

I will say I understand where the angst is coming from, JR needs to start winning games again. European qualification is looking like a long shot at the minute which is a poor place to be given the base we had to build from.

We have 3 very winnable games in the next 10 days. 7 or 9 points and we're right in for euro spots. Far too early mate.

[J-C]

I thought Ross reacted well to the situation today.

We could have been dead and buried after half an hour. He made a proactive change and we were the better side from then on.

I'm still in the camp of not really being that bothered about him staying or going. I'm not sure today pushed me any further towards wanting a change though.


I'm with you on this, thought they had a good few chances until Ross changed it and we got the goal against the run of play and a good goal it was too. They had a right decent go at them in the 2nd and Watt's goal was a very good strike although some poor defending to allow him it. We really are in need of a win and I'm like you, not fussed if he stays or goes, I feel we need a lot of investment in this team, it's all very well giving out longer contacts to younger players but we need quality in now, far too many just not good enough. The one bright spark for me is the emergence of Campbell over the past few weeks.

[Scotty Leither]

Without stating the obvious, the LC Final is massive for Ross, not just in terms of pulling off a win against the odds, but how we perform on the day as well.

I was pleasantly surprised at the semi-final display as I thought he would start really cautious, but that's maybe the best first half of football I've seen from a Hibs team at Hampden.

Fast forward ten days or so against the same opponents as the SF, and to my mind he reverts to type and looks to be happy with a draw until the late sucker-punch, which then leads to him (rightly in my view) getting flak for the lateness of his subs. Frustrating doesn't cover it, and then he compounds it with his standard emotionless post-match interview.

Today we started the same; lethargic, side-to-side passing with a defence that looks like it'll leak a goal at any time, and while the second half was better, you can't keep bemoaning bad luck because we've not won a game at home now since September, and that bluntly is relegation form.

The recruitment has been poor and it's well documented that the club are p1ssed off too, and the blame for that was put on Mathie, which might well be the case, but the recruitment has been patchy at the club for the last 4 or 5 seasons; we seem to want to run with the bare minimum of a squad, especially in the forward areas. the whole culture of the club seems still to be based on operating on a totally risk-averse model, and that certainly appears to be the way we operate in the transfer market.

For example, there's a great fanfare around the boy Mueller now arrived in the UK and training with the club -what was wrong with paying a fee and bringing him in in August? - As for the loan signings of Scott and Wood, the least said about these two particular bits of business, the better.

So I really hope we defy the odds and win the League Cup in two weeks time,but i'd say at the moment we'll travel more in hope than expectation; and he's got to win the next three league games to try and generate some positivity around the place, and he's got the perfect opportunity to do that with the teams he's facing, but he's got to let the team off the leash from the start of matches if he's going to come close to achieving that.

[eastterrace]

Not really. If Campbell scores instead of hitting underside of bar you'd have to find something else to moan about. Fine margins between. Net meltdown and great result. That's standard though.
Is that you jack fine margins and all that.

[gbhibby]

The football being played is OK. The summer transfer window was not good. Win the cup and Jack Ross is a hero. I think there are problems with aspects of our play in transitioning. Players need to show better positioning when we have the ball and finding space and being available. Thought we did well at Hampden in these aspects of play but need to be at that level every week. The January transfer window needs to be very good and I think he wiil get to the end of the season. Anything less than 4th is not acceptable.

[Crunchie]

Jack Ross must be under pressure now

4 points from 24 available is a very poor run
Hearts sitting pretty in 3rd have won how many games more than us? I seriously hope Jack doesn't do social media and read any of this drivel or he'll be away the first chance he gets.
He's got us to another final and fans want rid because of a bad league run, when will you ever learn.

[Waxy]

I like Jack Ross. Perhaps there’s other things we should change at the club that we dont see or think about?

[Northernhibee]

I like Jack Ross. Perhaps there’s other things we should change at the club that we dont see or think about?

I like him too.

[jeffers]

I don’t want him gone. Not because I particularly rate him, I’ve never felt he’s more than an OK manager. The board clearly do rate him, have allowed him to extend the contracts of a decent number of the squad (and are trying with others) and intend backing him in the January window. Not from what I understand with suggestions from the recruitment team, but players he has specifically targeted. To allow him to do that then get rid of him would be a bad decision imo.

I think ultimately it will be the reduction in attendances that will be his downfall. I was there today, 3 season ticket holders who sit beside me weren’t. That wasn’t down to it being December or due to COVID.

[H18S NX]

My previous position on this was pretty much not fussed if he stays and not fussed if he goes. The fact that I'm now trying to work out what looks like it is improving or on an upward trend under JR probably moves me substantially towards 'this isn't working'.

Our league form is terrible.
Our performances seem to range between awful on the one hand and adequate and promising on the other without actually improving particularly.
Our squad remains frustratingly full of potentially decent players who largely seem to consistently under perform.
Our tactics look questionable (particularly substitutions) and we definitely seem risk averse in our match day approach.
The squad is imbalanced - we have nowhere near enough pace and we massively over rely on Boyle up front.
The quality of football we play seems to reflect the manager's public persona; unexciting, passionless and generally a bit insipid.
We are prone to very costly self-inflicted defensive mistakes.
I don't see a recognisable captain figure on the park.
ER is the opposite of a fortress.
The atmosphere and numbers at ER are now very tepid - partly the fault of Covid and winter but mostly, I think, due to our results and our performances

He's had two years in charge and four transfer windows so far to develop his squad and playing style. I'm not sure I can see a clearl plan in action in terms of the squad and the playing style he is looking for.

If we lose the cup final we will likely be in the position of having very little to show for this season other than a good cup run. And that is in a league which contains mostly indifferent teams.

I'm left asking the question, 'what is the Jack Ross plan for transforming our squad and playing style from here and what has he put in the goodwill bank in the two years he's had so far to make us think this is going somewhere?'...Very good post sir:top marks

[bigwheel]

Hearts sitting pretty in 3rd have won how many games more than us? I seriously hope Jack doesn't do social media and read any of this drivel or he'll be away the first chance he gets.
He's got us to another final and fans want rid because of a bad league run, when will you ever learn.

Two more games won than us


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Stuart93]

Hearts sitting pretty in 3rd have won how many games more than us? I seriously hope Jack doesn't do social media and read any of this drivel or he'll be away the first chance he gets.
He's got us to another final and fans want rid because of a bad league run, when will you ever learn.

I don’t want rid but he’s under pressure due to the run we’re on. It’s a terrible run of form

[One Day Soon]

I like him too.


So do I and I would imagine most of us do, he seems thoughtful, focussed and intelligent. Unfortunately that isn't really the point.

[jeffers]

Without stating the obvious, the LC Final is massive for Ross, not just in terms of pulling off a win against the odds, but how we perform on the day as well.

I was pleasantly surprised at the semi-final display as I thought he would start really cautious, but that's maybe the best first half of football I've seen from a Hibs team at Hampden.

Fast forward ten days or so against the same opponents as the SF, and to my mind he reverts to type and looks to be happy with a draw until the late sucker-punch, which then leads to him (rightly in my view) getting flak for the lateness of his subs. Frustrating doesn't cover it, and then he compounds it with his standard emotionless post-match interview.

Today we started the same; lethargic, side-to-side passing with a defence that looks like it'll leak a goal at any time, and while the second half was better, you can't keep bemoaning bad luck because we've not won a game at home now since September, and that bluntly is relegation form.

The recruitment has been poor and it's well documented that the club are p1ssed off too, and the blame for that was put on Mathie, which might well be the case, but the recruitment has been patchy at the club for the last 4 or 5 seasons; we seem to want to run with the bare minimum of a squad, especially in the forward areas. the whole culture of the club seems still to be based on operating on a totally risk-averse model, and that certainly appears to be the way we operate in the transfer market.

For example, there's a great fanfare around the boy Mueller now arrived in the UK and training with the club -what was wrong with paying a fee and bringing him in in August? - As for the loan signings of Scott and Wood, the least said about these two particular bits of business, the better.

So I really hope we defy the odds and win the League Cup in two weeks time,but i'd say at the moment we'll travel more in hope than expectation; and he's got to win the next three league games to try and generate some positivity around the place, and he's got the perfect opportunity to do that with the teams he's facing, but he's got to let the team off the leash from the start of matches if he's going to come close to achieving that.

Regarding Mueller we did try to get him in this summer, the US setup is different regarding player registration and it was their league that stopped it happening as far as I am aware.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I think Steve Kean was brought in for this reason, I like JR but think he will be gone soon.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t want him gone. Not because I particularly rate him, I’ve never felt he’s more than an OK manager. The board clearly do rate him, have allowed him to extend the contracts of a decent number of the squad (and are trying with others) and intend backing him in the January window. Not from what I understand with suggestions from the recruitment team, but players he has specifically targeted. To allow him to do that then get rid of him would be a bad decision imo.

I think ultimately it will be the reduction in attendances that will be his downfall. I was there today, 3 season ticket holders who sit beside me weren’t. That wasn’t down to it being December or due to COVID.

Two next to me missing for the same reasons. Number of folk missing is growing and agree that’s what the CEO/Owner will be paying attention to more than anything else, if it continues.

[Crunchie]

I don’t want rid but he’s under pressure due to the run we’re on. It’s a terrible run of form
We just humped the league champions and reached another final, there are mitigating circumstances to our league form. We've had a brutal run of injuries and bad luck, sometimes a season has to be written off and start afresh.
Ask anyone who has ever managed a team and they'll tell you no different.

[greenlex]

We are not playing terribly and the players by and large are grafting and playing and dare I say it with confidence. I’m another five run game five losses from being anywhere close to wanting him removed. We are in good hands. If we’re t creating chances I’d be more concerned.

[Crunchie]

We are not playing terribly and the players by and large are grafting and playing and dare I say it with confidence. I’m another five run game five losses from being anywhere close to wanting him removed. We are in good hands. If we’re t creating chances I’d be more concerned.
:top marks

[jeffers]

Two next to me missing for the same reasons. Number of folk missing is growing and agree that’s what the CEO/Owner will be paying attention to more than anything else, if it continues.

Tbh mate driving to the game today in the snow/sleet I was half considering turning back. At the moment it’s more out of loyalty than any enjoyment. In fact it was actually 4 who sit beside that weren’t there today, 3 of those 4 not in attendance on Wednesday. I don’t suppose the fact the home games are still being shown on Hibs TV is helping with attendances though.

[sleeping giant]

We are not playing terribly and the players by and large are grafting and playing and dare I say it with confidence. I’m another five run game five losses from being anywhere close to wanting him removed. We are in good hands. If we’re t creating chances I’d be more concerned.

👍

[The Modfather]

We just humped the league champions and reached another final, there are mitigating circumstances to our league form. We've had a brutal run of injuries and bad luck, sometimes a season has to be written off and start afresh.
Ask anyone who has ever managed a team and they'll tell you no different.

All teams get injuries and have bad luck, they’re not unique to Hibs. Ross was definitely let down with the summer recruitment and that is a valid factor to this season. It should also be noted that the team that finished 3rd wasn’t broken up as is often the reason for a slump the following season. You can’t be talking about writing seasons off without questioning whether the manager is getting the most out of what he has available. For me he isn’t.

[greenlex]

All teams get injuries and have bad luck, they’re not unique to Hibs. Ross was definitely let down with the summer recruitment and that is a valid factor to this season. It should also be noted that the team that finished 3rd wasn’t broken up as is often the reason for a slump the following season. You can’t be talking about writing seasons off without questioning whether the manager is getting the most out of what he has available. For me he isn’t.
I’m not so sure we should be writing any league aspirations off at this stage. We certainly need a few wins to get back in the chase but we’re certainly capable of that.

[Mutu]

The non hysterical case for a new manager is that we clearly aren't going anywhere with Ross in charge. It's been clear for well over a year now. Last seasons 3rd place looked great on paper but on the field it was turgid turgid stuff.

Attendances are the proof.

He'll be gone after this season. Well done to him, the job is one of the hardest is Scottish football, but that is no reason to accept the continued mediocrity we are seeing now.

[Leith Green]

I thought Ross reacted well to the situation today.

We could have been dead and buried after half an hour. He made a proactive change and we were the better side from then on.

I'm still in the camp of not really being that bothered about him staying or going. I'm not sure today pushed me any further towards wanting a change though.


What you say about not being bothered if Jack Ross staying or going sums up perfectly the mood amongst a lot of supporters. There is an apathy amongst a lot of Hibs supporters just now. As the original poster said , Ross seems a nice guy but i dont see him as being much of a motivator and find his approach very cautious. I think this dull boring atmosphere is why the fans aren’t that interested

[Nicho87]

Yeah, what on earth are you going to post about when we turn this round?

How are you seriously unable to take crisiticm towards a manager who hasn’t won a home league at since September and only won one in seven league games?

Is the football good?
Are attendances rising?
Are you genuinely excited watching the current style of football?

[Crunchie]

I’m not so sure we should be writing any league aspirations off at this stage. We certainly need a few wins to get back in the chase but we’re certainly capable of that.
I'm not saying we should either but as long as we're nowhere near the foot of the table any talk of getting rid of a guy who has regularly taken us to Hampden is just nuts. He's clearly shown he's more than capable of finishing high up the table, but that's not going to happen every season and if it does you usually find our manager has gone on to a bigger club.

[Allant1981]

How are you seriously unable to take crisiticm towards a manager who hasn’t won a home league at since September and only won one in seven league games?

Is the football good?
Are attendances rising?
Are you genuinely excited watching the current style of football?

Football was good today yet you still moan, although you would need to be at ER to notice that

[Leith Green]

Football was good today yet you still moan, although you would need to be at ER to notice that


Football was good today? Thats stretching it a little , we were awful in the first half and pretty much played nowt anywhere near good enough. Second half we played far better but I certainly wouldn’t be shouting to loudly about is playing good football.

[Crunchie]

Football was good today yet you still moan, although you would need to be at ER to notice that
We played some great stuff in the 2nd half especially, if 1 of the many chances we created went in this board would be quiet right now and he wouldn't be here.

[Allant1981]

Football was good today? Thats stretching it a little , we were awful in the first half and pretty much played nowt anywhere near good enough. Second half we played far better but I certainly wouldn’t be shouting to loudly about is playing good football.

The football was good today, created plenty, on another day could have scored 3 or 4

[Nicho87]

We played some great stuff in the 2nd half especially, if 1 of the many chances we created went in this board would be quiet right now and he wouldn't be here.

🤣

[chrisski33]

Its worrying we cant seem to win at home tbh. I like Ross but where is the passion? Cant the players show the same amount of passion they did when they won the semi against The Rangers? Or was that their cup final? Does Ross instil any passion? Does our Captain do either?

[Leith Green]

We played some great stuff in the 2nd half especially, if 1 of the many chances we created went in this board would be quiet right now and he wouldn't be here.



Are you just going to ignore the first half performance?

[degenerated]

To the people who want Jack Ross out who do they suggest Hibs bring in?You'll get the stock answer that its the club's job to identify a replacement, not theirs.

[greenlex]

Are you just going to ignore the first half performance?
It was no where near as bad as you are indicating. Their best chances came from individual errors on our part.

[Crunchie]

Are you just going to ignore the first half performance?
I've seen a lot worse against weaker opposition, are you going to ignore the 2nd?

[Nicho87]

So

Ross in camp: are allowed to focus on the positives

Ross out camp: point out it’s poor results regardless of performances

And Ross out voters are deemed surplus to requirements on the forum and told they don’t attend games

Love this forum

[Leith Green]

I've seen a lot worse against weaker opposition, are you going to ignore the 2nd?

I have already said we played well second half in an earlier post.

[Leith Green]

It was no where near as bad as you are indicating. Their best chances came from individual errors on our part.


Which chance? I can remember 5 or 6 of their chances 1st half.

[7heaven]

Bad luck is rarely a long term thing, it’s usually a problem that needs resolved.

Totally agree.

[Mikey_1875]

I’d still keep Ross and believe he deserves the January window to get the reinforcements in and see if he can take us forward from there.

Unfortunately outside of our cup run things feel a bit grim just now and our league targets are slipping week by week. If results were to continue like this beyond the January window into Feb/March then I would be looking to part company at the end of the season.

[greenlex]

Which chance? I can remember 5 or 6 of their chances 1st half.
The biggest one that springs to mind was when McGinn played the boy through for a one on one.

[WeeRussell]

Whether the players stopped playing for Ross or not is irrelevant. The similarities between the 2 seasons are clear. We’re on our worst run of form since that season. If you think JR can turn it around fair enough but I’ve a sinking feeling in my stomach that says you’re wrong (people saying we’re too good to get relegated have short memories. I don’t think we will tbf but it’s bottom 6 for us this season).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nah it’s not. Likelihood is we won’t be bottom six this time next weekend. I’m very confident we won’t be by the end of the season, and talk of relegation or Terry Butcher is daft.

[Leith Green]

The biggest one that springs to mind was when McGinn played the boy through for a one on one.

One thing that jumps out was mcginns last ditch tackle in the box during the first half.. As good a tackle as ur likely to see in modern football.

[loanheadhibby]

We just humped the league champions and reached another final, there are mitigating circumstances to our league form. We've had a brutal run of injuries and bad luck, sometimes a season has to be written off and start afresh.
Ask anyone who has ever managed a team and they'll tell you no different.
What bad luck have we had?

[MWHIBBIES]

One thing that jumps out was mcginns last ditch tackle in the box during the first half.. As good a tackle as ur likely to see in modern football.

Which came from a Hanlon mistake. Motherwell didn't create much, more we make mistakes. Hibs definitely created the better chances, and could've scored a few in the 2nd half.

Motherwell fans at Waverley felt we battered them a bit 2nd half.

[Allant1981]

Which came from a Hanlon mistake. Motherwell didn't create much, more we make mistakes. Hibs definitely created the better chances, and could've scored a few in the 2nd half.

Motherwell fans at Waverley felt we battered them a bit 2nd half.

Nah it was boring, and jack ross needs to go

[greenlex]

What bad luck have we had?
Doidge injury the biggest but I’ll chuck in Magennis too. Covid outbreak. I was going to chuck in poor refereeing decisions not going in our favour but it’s supposed to even itself out. I’m still waiting:greengrin

[Waxy]

I like him too.

Who would you have as manager?

[greenlex]

One thing that jumps out was mcginns last ditch tackle in the box during the first half.. As good a tackle as ur likely to see in modern football.
I’m sure that was from a Hanlon mistake tho.

[Leith Green]

Which came from a Hanlon mistake. Motherwell didn't create much, more we make mistakes. Hibs definitely created the better chances, and could've scored a few in the 2nd half.

Motherwell fans at Waverley felt we battered them a bit 2nd half.


Im not disagreeing with you about the mistakes or about the 2nd half , far from it. What im saying is that we were really poor first half , struggled to get going and thought we lacked any real drive or tempo to our play. We were lucky that motherwell didnt take advantage with their many chances before we scored.

My opinion is that this has been the case in the vast majority of our home league games this season , we struggle to get going and seem overly cautious, rubbish to watch to be perfectly honest and its not as if we are picking up the points playing this way. Something majorly wrong in the way the players are being coached and set up to play because this is almost every home game we are talking about

[JohnM1875]

I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

Unlucky? We could have been four down inside 30 minutes and couldn't have had any real complaints.

[Leith Green]

I’m sure that was from a Hanlon mistake tho.

Yeah it was , i wasn’t referencing it to how poor we were playing.. I was just saying how good a tackle it was ..

[greenlex]

Yeah it was , i wasn’t referencing it to how poor we were playing.. I was just saying how good a tackle it was ..:aok:

[MWHIBBIES]

Unlucky? We could have been four down inside 30 minutes and couldn't have had any real complaints.

No chance. They had a few chances of our creating. Doig had a free header yards out. Nisbet had a header blocked. We scored a great goal. Motherwell had a few shots at our goalie and wide.

We hit the bar, and had 2 off the line. 4 down ffs, behave. We could've scored at least 3 second half if that's your logic.

[marleyhib]

The writing is on the wall, his teams are boring to watch and he is risk averse . Was sacked from Sunderland for that very reason.

[Lancs Harp]

Well the thread started out as "the non hysterical case for a new manager" A noble and novel idea.

Predictably turned into my opinion is right and yours is wrong. Good debate is give and take. If you dont like that idea FO :greengrin:wink::greengrin:wink:

[MWHIBBIES]

The writing is on the wall, his teams are boring to watch and he is risk averse . Was sacked from Sunderland for that very reason.

Yeah, Doyle hayes and newall off for Allan and Murphy, boring and risk averse :faf:

[Leith Green]

No chance. They had a few chances of our creating. Doig had a free header yards out. Nisbet had a header blocked. We scored a great goal. Motherwell had a few shots at our goalie and wide.

We hit the bar, and had 2 off the line. 4 down ffs, behave. We could've scored at least 3 second half if that's your logic.


I think the point he is making is that the game could easily have already been lost before we had even got started. We cant go on this way and expect to pick up points. Its been the same all season. Games versus motherwell , dundee utd , st johnstone, st mirren off the top off my head have been the same and thats not including the first half against celtic and possibly the huns

[bigwheel]

The writing is on the wall, his teams are boring to watch and he is risk averse . Was sacked from Sunderland for that very reason.

How did that work for them ?

[inglisavhibs]

If stadium gets any more empty then club won't really have a choice.

I don't think many fans, certainly on here, actually hate Jack Ross. I suppose in fairness to him, club and Ron Gordon keep talking about ambitious plans, already talking about bringing back the infrastructure days by getting an indoor facility at HTC, all while our ST numbers are going down, our attendances are going down, we are on an awful run of form and many people just have a "meh" feeling about Hibs.

I couldn't wait to get back to the football after all the lockdown business. Since the passport business came into play and new Covid concerns combined with our performances, judge me if you will but I've just not been bothered to go along. I've paid my money in the ST, Hibs store, HSL and HibsTV so I think I've done the necessary financial support side of this. Must admit, not solely down to current form, but I'm already questioning whether I renew for next season. I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Club need to stop talking all the positive vibes stuff and actually do something to strengthen our position as a football club. Feels a lot like Farmer and Petrie days - infrastructure and things around the club rather than the players on the pitch.

Club need to step up their game, with Jack Ross or without.
Where’s the money going to come from? Unlike Hearts and Aberdeen we don’t have 4 and 5 million donations to play with. In all the time I have been supporting Hibs we have never had an individual or otherwise willing to throw spare cash at our team. I have come to accept that and just enjoy watching football without too much expectation. Today for example was a cracking game of football with both teams hell bent on winning. Hibs will continue to be inconsistent as they always have been but there are always some great surprises along the way. The semi final was one of these occasions.

[inglisavhibs]

The writing is on the wall, his teams are boring to watch and he is risk averse . Was sacked from Sunderland for that very reason.
Today was anything but boring.

[Jim44]

Here we go. Change the manager, let's go again, hire and fire. The way it's always been done at Hibs. Why keep doing the same things and expect different results? Pay compensation to the former employee, pay compensation to the new employee's club. Less money for new players, have a clear out and start again. I am sick of that carry-on. Why not stick for once and see what happens. Things can change quickly in football the club could be cup winners in a couple of weeks. Persevere.

Refreshing.

[Scotty Leither]

Where’s the money going to come from? Unlike Hearts and Aberdeen we don’t have 4 and 5 million donations to play with. In all the time I have been supporting Hibs we have never had an individual or otherwise willing to throw spare cash at our team. I have come to accept that and just enjoy watching football without too much expectation. Today for example was a cracking game of football with both teams hell bent on winning. Hibs will continue to be inconsistent as they always have been but there are always some great surprises along the way. The semi final was one of these occasions.

Ron Gordon shouldn't have made a rod for his back then by saying when he came in that he wanted the club to eventually challenge for the league. That's an ambition that chimes with mine, as I would love to see the club win the league at least once in my lifetime.

I read that as someone who wasn't going to inure to the club to mediocrity and who maybe, just maybe had a bit of spark and ambition about him. If there's no "expectation" at Easter Road, what's the point then?

I'm sincerely not trying to pick your post apart, but I really think that a Capital city club, with the fanbase that we have shouldn't really settle for a cup win once every twenty years and the odd sojourn into Europe once every 5 seasons either; problem is though is that successive managers haven't been set much in the way of lofty goals in the past 20 years, and I get the impression the current incumbent is another one in a long line who thinks he's doing us a favour by being our manager.

[RossScott1991]

JDH and Newell in midfield is a hard watch at times.

Main tactic seems to be hope for moments in every match for Boyle and Nisbet to do damage. The current system and approach is fine for big games like rangers in semi or Celtic in a final were you need to be resolute and play off moments. But not at home to most teams in the league. He really needs to let the handbrake off and stop picking the same 11 every week and mix it up abit

It’s becoming borderline just insulting for guys Scott Allan now were they get watch conservative football from guys like JDH and Newell and then get thrown on for 5/10mins every week and asked to take the pressure off him and save his job. I’m just getting abit bored now. A lot of games coming up and there’s a high chance he will just choose the same team again today despite voicing his thoughts on the amount of games.

[Jim44]

I think Steve Kean was brought in for this reason, I like JR but think he will be gone soon.

Nah. Jack Ross was very instrumental in bringing Kean in. Talk about hiring your own executioner.

[bigwheel]

Nah. Jack Ross was very instrumental in bringing Kean in. Talk about hiring your own executioner.

I can’t buy the theory that Kean will be the replacement (I realise that wasn’t your point ) …his managerial record makes Levein look like Pep ….his last gig was as assistant to Grant Brebner

[jacomo]

one win, one draw and six defeats or whatever it is now in the league isnt what a good team is like thats for sure. We should be doing a lot better. Our first half performance against Rangers in the semi a few weeks ago was great, so we know we can play, too many turgid or moderate league performances over the last cuple of months. I'm not Jacks greatest fan, never have been, Im not calling for his head or making a song and dance about it but things need to improve and quickly. Hopefully we'll make a couple of key signings in the January window but that window is nororiously difficult to make good signings in.


It’s very poor form no doubt.

To be fair to Jack, key injuries have really hurt us. With Doidge and Magennis we’d have a few more wins on the board.

[B.H.F.C]

JDH and Newell in midfield is a hard watch at times.

Main tactic seems to be hope for moments in every match for Boyle and Nisbet to do damage. The current system and approach is fine for big games like rangers in semi or Celtic in a final were you need to be resolute and play off moments. But not at home to most teams in the league. He really needs to let the handbrake off and stop picking the same 11 every week and mix it up abit

It’s becoming borderline just insulting for guys Scott Allan now were they get watch conservative football from guys like JDH and Newell and then get thrown on for 5/10mins every week and asked to take the pressure off him and save his job. I’m just getting abit bored now. A lot of games coming up and there’s a high chance he will just choose the same team again today despite voicing his thoughts on the amount of games.

Totally agree with that. With all the games and the impact Allan/Murphy made last week I’d hoped we’d see some changes today. Would understand continuing to pick the same team if it was a winning one but it’s not. Wasn’t surprised that it was same again though.

[Stuart93]

Can’t remember the last time I’ve seen us as poor as we were in the first half. A massive regress from the last home game I was at against Ross county (work related)

2nd half we were better and probably should’ve scored a couple but that’s ifs and buts, we never and it’s more dropped points.

Said it through the week and it still remains the case, we need points on the board and quickly. We’re starting to fall behind and games in hand doesn’t exactly equal 3 points for us in current form. Any other hibs manager in this run of form would be under huge pressure.

[JohnM1875]

No chance. They had a few chances of our creating. Doig had a free header yards out. Nisbet had a header blocked. We scored a great goal. Motherwell had a few shots at our goalie and wide.

We hit the bar, and had 2 off the line. 4 down ffs, behave. We could've scored at least 3 second half if that's your logic.

Totally disagree. Not saying we didn't have chances second half. But before we scored they should have been a few goals up.

[GreenCastle]

JDH and Newell in midfield is a hard watch at times.

Main tactic seems to be hope for moments in every match for Boyle and Nisbet to do damage. The current system and approach is fine for big games like rangers in semi or Celtic in a final were you need to be resolute and play off moments. But not at home to most teams in the league. He really needs to let the handbrake off and stop picking the same 11 every week and mix it up abit

It’s becoming borderline just insulting for guys Scott Allan now were they get watch conservative football from guys like JDH and Newell and then get thrown on for 5/10mins every week and asked to take the pressure off him and save his job. I’m just getting abit bored now. A lot of games coming up and there’s a high chance he will just choose the same team again today despite voicing his thoughts on the amount of games.

It’s a fair point about Allan - trying to loan him out then going to him to try save points / win a game must be quite demoralising at times.

Last few games Allan has played...

8 mins - Motherwell
4 mins - Rangers
20 mins - St J - which we won and he made the difference
15 mins - Ross County
30 mins - Aberdeen

We also have the issue of other players hardly contributing to the team..

Gullan - around 150 mins of league football
Wright - 58 mins of league football
Hallberg - 0 mins
Mackie - 0 mins
Gogic - around 180 mins of league football
Mackay - 27 mins of league football
James Scott

7 players we aren’t getting anything from at all in the squad.

Obviously Hallberg, McKay and Mackie been injured and Magennis hasn’t lost a league game when he played.

We also have an issue of lack of goals from central midfield - except Boyle.

Overall shows we are carrying passengers and players who aren’t offering competition for places let alone anything to the performance or outcome of the result.

We need to freshen the squad up and January and summer I expect changes or we will get worse.

1-0 never seems to be enough with this team and it’s very rare if we lose the 1st goal we come back to win.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Another fickle fan thread.
Seriously, if its not a win then we get a thread wanting the manager sacked.
If we win, he's doing great.

Maybe Hibs could message every fan after not winning to tell them they're great, at least it gives them some sort of gratification that they so greatly desire.

[Northernhibee]

Who would you have as manager?

That, I have no answer for. I do think that if a realistic candidate becomes available then Jack is in trouble.

I’m not pretending I have the answers on this, but I find a degree of concern that whether we play well or badly, we’re not winning. If the team has a stinker and lose, that can be coached out of a team. Playing well and not getting results on a regular basis is much more concerning.

[Stuart93]

Another fickle fan thread.
Seriously, if its not a win then we get a thread wanting the manager sacked.
If we win, he's doing great.

Maybe Hibs could message every fan after not winning to tell them they're great, at least it gives them some sort of gratification that they so greatly desire.

People seem to be missing the fact it’s not because it’s not a win. It’s the 4 points gained out of 21 available.

It’s fine, we have posters on here to tell us everything’s really great & the things people are seeing with their own eyes aren’t actually true

For anyone to call that game today exciting is lost on me completely.

[The Modfather]

Another fickle fan thread.
Seriously, if its not a win then we get a thread wanting the manager sacked.
If we win, he's doing great.

Maybe Hibs could message every fan after not winning to tell them they're great, at least it gives them some sort of gratification that they so greatly desire.

What’s the point in posts like these that are deliberately obtuse? It’s fine to disagree with those question Ross and a constructive counter argument makes for an interesting debate. Pretending the discontent is based solely on the previous game in isolation is closer to trolling than joining in a constructive debate IMO.

[JohnM1875]

People seem to be missing the fact it’s not because it’s not a win. It’s the 4 points gained out of 21 available.

It’s fine, we have posters on here to tell us everything’s really great & the things people are seeing with their own eyes aren’t actually true

Genuinely no idea where I am with Ross right now. Finishing third was impressive last season. But this season has some serious Hecky vibes and I kinda want out.

[NC1875]

So many fans now saying, give him the January window.

Ask any Sunderland fan there opinion of Jack Ross…

Boring
Draw specialist
Uninspiring

That’s exactly what we are seeing now, well some of us anyway.

Yet yous want to give him more time ? This is a terrible run and if it goes on any longer the manager should go. I genuinely cannot believe there are so many people blindly backing him.

[stoneyburn hibs]

What’s the point in posts like these that are deliberately obtuse? It’s fine to disagree with those question Ross and a constructive counter argument makes for an interesting debate. Pretending the discontent is based solely on the previous game in isolation is closer to trolling than joining in a constructive debate IMO.

Trolling?, do one.
It's my opinion on a message board.
You don't agree with it, that's entirely your choice.
Certainly not trolling.

[MWHIBBIES]

I think the point he is making is that the game could easily have already been lost before we had even got started. We cant go on this way and expect to pick up points. Its been the same all season. Games versus motherwell , dundee utd , st johnstone, st mirren off the top off my head have been the same and thats not including the first half against celtic and possibly the huns

Thats not true, though. We created chances in the first half too. Doig header, goal we scored, Nisbet chance. Both st Johnstone games we've been the better side and won so no idea what you're talking about there.

I agree we've not been great for 90 minutes often enough, but to say we could've been 4 down at half time is absolute bull****. Go find me the last time Hibs were 4-0 down at half time at home.

[Northernhibee]

Trolling?, do one.
It's my opinion on a message board.
You don't agree with it, that's entirely your choice.
Certainly not trolling.

This entire forum is opinions on a message board, play nicely or don’t play at all.

[MWHIBBIES]

So many fans now saying, give him the January window.

Ask any Sunderland fan there opinion of Jack Ross…

Boring
Draw specialist
Uninspiring

That’s exactly what we are seeing now, well some of us anyway.

Yet yous want to give him more time ? This is a terrible run and if it goes on any longer the manager should go. I genuinely cannot believe there are so many people blindly backing him.

Ah yes, Sunderland that got significantly worse after he left. A fantastic example. Let's do what they did.

[Northernhibee]

Ah yes, Sunderland that got significantly worse after he left. A fantastic example. Let's do what they did.

But this comes dangerously close to the “you won’t get better than Neil Lennon “ argument that plays on “things could get worse” rather than “if we’re going to take action then let’s make sure we take the correct step forward”.

[stoneyburn hibs]

This entire forum is opinions on a message board, play nicely or don’t play at all.

And as I said before it's my opinion.

[Northernhibee]

And as I said before it's my opinion.

And my opinion is mine and you’ve chosen to throw around phrases like “fickle fans” when I’ve defended Jack Ross for quite some time and brought up a number of valid points.

If you’re not trolling then you’re certainly coming across like you are.

[SteveHFC]

People seem to be missing the fact it’s not because it’s not a win. It’s the 4 points gained out of 21 available.

It’s fine, we have posters on here to tell us everything’s really great & the things people are seeing with their own eyes aren’t actually true

For anyone to call that game today exciting is lost on me completely.

try 4pts out of 24
Cinch Premiership | Form Guide | Last 8 Matches | Football Web Pages (https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/scottish-premiership/form-guide/eight)

[stoneyburn hibs]

And my opinion is mine and you’ve chosen to throw around phrases like “fickle fans” when I’ve defended Jack Ross for quite some time and brought up a number of valid points.

If you’re not trolling then you’re certainly coming across like you are.

If you equate trolling to having a different pov to yourself then crack on.

[Stuart93]

try 4pts out of 24
Cinch Premiership | Form Guide | Last 8 Matches | Football Web Pages (https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/scottish-premiership/form-guide/eight)

Ah right, well even worse than I thought. Sure I said 4 out of 24 only earlier tonight as well haha, tough times

[Northernhibee]

The main problem is apathy. I think most felt anger at the thumping by Hearts at home and the three cup games. I defended Jack on those times as you can turn around anger reasonably easy.

The fact so many are apathetic to this team is hugely concerning. Thousands of people are missing in the stadium and the club can’t be a mile away from the panic button over potential season ticket sales. Apathy is really, really difficult to recover from and that’s where a lot of the support seem to be.

[MWHIBBIES]

But this comes dangerously close to the “you won’t get better than Neil Lennon “ argument that plays on “things could get worse” rather than “if we’re going to take action then let’s make sure we take the correct step forward”.

But it doesn't. Ross is a good manager, proven in this league. We've had a bad run, no doubt. Now, we're playing better and getting back to better performance, and missing chances. Today was a significantly better performance than United or Celtic for example. We made individual mistakes in the first half, and created great chances 2nd half while Motherwell created nothing and scored a goal from nothing. We had 3 guild edge chances 2md half to win it and then were all delighted.

If you separate the results pre covid outbreak and post covid outbreak, we're turning the corner imo. Performance is clearly improving. Sacking a manager who just pumped rangers 3-1 in a semi final is not getting sacked. He can do this. Back him, get him what he needs, and build something

[NC1875]

Ah yes, Sunderland that got significantly worse after he left. A fantastic example. Let's do what they did.

Significantly worse ? Aye the team that is 2 points off top of League tonight. Don’t make stuff up.

I hope he turns things around but I just can’t see it. And as each week passes more people are starting to realise he’s not all that.

[Northernhibee]

But it doesn't. Ross is a good manager, proven in this league. We've had a bad run, no doubt. Now, we're playing better and getting back to better performance, and missing chances. Today was a significantly better performance than United or Celtic for example. We made individual mistakes in the first half, and created great chances 2nd half while Motherwell created nothing and scored a goal from nothing. We had 3 guild edge chances 2md half to win it and then were all delighted.

If you separate the results pre covid outbreak and post covid outbreak, we're turning the corner imo. Performance is clearly improving. Sacking a manager who just pumped rangers 3-1 in a semi final is not getting sacked. He can do this. Back him, get him what he needs, and build something

I think we’re both agreed that he needs to start winning in the league and building up a head of steam very soon though.

I genuinely would love to be wrong on this as he’s a good guy and I like him, but I’m pretty open minded. I wonder how many of the people who feel the same about the recent run of form simply won’t come back.

[Coco Bryce]

But it doesn't. Ross is a good manager, proven in this league. We've had a bad run, no doubt. Now, we're playing better and getting back to better performance, and missing chances. Today was a significantly better performance than United or Celtic for example. We made individual mistakes in the first half, and created great chances 2nd half while Motherwell created nothing and scored a goal from nothing. We had 3 guild edge chances 2md half to win it and then were all delighted.

If you separate the results pre covid outbreak and post covid outbreak, we're turning the corner imo. Performance is clearly improving. Sacking a manager who just pumped rangers 3-1 in a semi final is not getting sacked. He can do this. Back him, get him what he needs, and build something

I'm starting to think you are actually Jack Ross.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm starting to think you are actually Jack Ross.boring


Significantly worse ? Aye the team that is 2 points off top of League tonight. Don’t make stuff up.

I hope he turns things around but I just can’t see it. And as each week passes more people are starting to realise he’s not all that.
Sunderland were dog**** after Ross left. Look at their results under Simon grayson.

He is already turning it around. 3 decent performances in 3 hard games this week passed.

[Squealing pig]

Trust Ron Gordon will do what’s best

[Coco Bryce]

boring

Correct.

[NC1875]

boring


Sunderland were dog**** after Ross left. Look at their results under Simon grayson.

He is already turning it around. 3 decent performances in 3 hard games this week passed.

With a whole 4 points out of 9. And the 3 came against 10 men. I’ve said it already, and someone else has said it, I’m sure you are Jack Ross.

[MWHIBBIES]

With a whole 4 points out of 9. And the 3 came against 10 men. I’ve said it already, and someone else has said it, I’m sure you are Jack Ross.

Yeah, I'm definitely jack Ross. Great work.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Hearts sitting pretty in 3rd have won how many games more than us? I seriously hope Jack doesn't do social media and read any of this drivel or he'll be away the first chance he gets.
He's got us to another final and fans want rid because of a bad league run, when will you ever learn.

Finals mean hee haw unless you win them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoalsMcGinley]

We played some great stuff in the 2nd half especially, if 1 of the many chances we created went in this board would be quiet right now and he wouldn't be here.

If my aunty had baws she’d be my uncle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnM1875]

We'll fanny about giving Jack Ross time, lose the final and end up finishing fifth missing out on europe.

I obviously hope I'm wrong cause I genuinely like the guy and do think he's a decent manager. It just isn't working for us right now.

Most annoying thing is we haven't kicked on from finishing third last year.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Ron Gordon shouldn't have made a rod for his back then by saying when he came in that he wanted the club to eventually challenge for the league. That's an ambition that chimes with mine, as I would love to see the club win the league at least once in my lifetime.

I read that as someone who wasn't going to inure to the club to mediocrity and who maybe, just maybe had a bit of spark and ambition about him. If there's no "expectation" at Easter Road, what's the point then?

I'm sincerely not trying to pick your post apart, but I really think that a Capital city club, with the fanbase that we have shouldn't really settle for a cup win once every twenty years and the odd sojourn into Europe once every 5 seasons either; problem is though is that successive managers haven't been set much in the way of lofty goals in the past 20 years, and I get the impression the current incumbent is another one in a long line who thinks he's doing us a favour by being our manager.

[emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]


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[MWHIBBIES]

We'll fanny about giving Jack Ross time, lose the final and end up finishing fifth missing out on europe.

I obviously hope I'm wrong cause I genuinely like the guy and do think he's a decent manager. It just isn't working for us right now.

Most annoying thing is we haven't kicked on from finishing third last year.

Who could we get right now who would guarantee better than 5th and a cup final?

[GoalsMcGinley]

Who could we get right now who would guarantee better than 5th and a cup final?

Cup finals mean nada if you don’t win them.


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[MWHIBBIES]

Cup finals mean nada if you don’t win them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good to see you've already written us off.

[Torto7]

We need new players in. Im still in favour of keeping him. I think our core is good but the depth is awful.

[Hero76]

***** fitbaw - empty stands

[Nitten]

Nisbet scores from his site or Campbell scores from his Schaffer and it’s game done and dusted! How the Fei is JR to blame for that?
Supporters need a reality check, players need to step up and take the chances we are creating. Those crying for JR to be repalced are delusional buck stops and starts with the players end off!

[JohnM1875]

Who could we get right now who would guarantee better than 5th and a cup final?

Absolutely no idea. Not really my job to figure that out. But there are thousands of managers out there that I'm sure the recruitment team are monitoring.

[JohnM1875]

Nisbet scores from his site or Campbell scores from his Schaffer and it’s game done and dusted! How the Fei is JR to blame for that?
Supporters need a reality check, players need to step up and take the chances we are creating. Those crying for JR to be repalced are delusional buck stops and starts with the players end off!

Nisbet or Campbell didn't score though. Jack Ross is to blame because he's the manager in charge of a team on a horrendous run of form. That's the reality.

I bet if you were to look back on the Butcher run there would be plenty of 'if he scored there etc'. They didn't and we were relegated.

We're rank just now. Boring to watch predictable to play against lacking of any creativity.

[Wakeyhibee]

***** fitbaw - empty stands

Some people have short memories. Apart from the 3 years after the Cup Final and maybe a brief spell under Mowbray, when did Hibs get more than 10k for this match. Probably the 70s

[FilipinoHibs]

Some people have short memories. Apart from the 3 years after the Cup Final and maybe a brief spell under Mowbray, when did Hibs get more than 10k for this match. Probably the 70s

Early 70s

[Allant1981]

Cup finals mean nada if you don’t win them.


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Funny how you only pop up when we dont win

[Allant1981]

Nisbet or Campbell didn't score though. Jack Ross is to blame because he's the manager in charge of a team on a horrendous run of form. That's the reality.

I bet if you were to look back on the Butcher run there would be plenty of 'if he scored there etc'. They didn't and we were relegated.

We're rank just now. Boring to watch predictable to play against lacking of any creativity.

If we were that predicatble to play against the how come we managed umpteen crosses into the box yesterday without them stopping then, it was our own failings in front of goal that let us down

[Skol]

I get the point that we are on an indifferent run of form right now.

However if you look back over history we have only won four cups in my lifetime. I don’t know him many third places but it won’t be many more than four. We have had more European campaigns but not that many

Set against that backdrop Ross is about as successful as it gets for a hibs manager outside turnbull, miller, Collins and Stubbs. He has a third place and European campaign and although not a cup winner we have been pretty consistent in the cup. There are of course questions over two of those cup winning managers being classed as successful but that’s another debate

I keeep reading about the poor quality of football and I think back to butcher, Fenlon, calderwood, heckinbotom as recent examples when it was much worse than it is now. There were some good spells of football from hibs yesterday. Granted some not so good

If hibs decide to replace Ross it would be a huge risk and in my view one that is not necessary right now.

[mcfly]

But it doesn't. Ross is a good manager, proven in this league. We've had a bad run, no doubt. Now, we're playing better and getting back to better performance, and missing chances. Today was a significantly better performance than United or Celtic for example. We made individual mistakes in the first half, and created great chances 2nd half while Motherwell created nothing and scored a goal from nothing. We had 3 guild edge chances 2md half to win it and then were all delighted.

If you separate the results pre covid outbreak and post covid outbreak, we're turning the corner imo. Performance is clearly improving. Sacking a manager who just pumped rangers 3-1 in a semi final is not getting sacked. He can do this. Back him, get him what he needs, and build something

He may be a good manager at this level.

Yes he was let down during summer transfer window but surely he had a say in what was going on.

However we have not kicked on from last years 3rd position. Our home form over last 2 years is terrible.

Crowds are down, you can say that may be covid related but his style of football is dull, boring, unappealing.

If season ticket holders don’t go then walk ups certainly won’t.

Hibs are a business - American owners will look at why were crowds 15k 3 yrs ago now they are 10k!

Worrying times. The support is there but you need a dynamic entertaining manager to galvanise fans into returning

Jack standing there saying the same things after each game won’t cut it anymore

[Crunchie]

I get the point that we are on an indifferent run of form right now.

However if you look back over history we have only won four cups in my lifetime. I don’t know him many third places but it won’t be many more than four. We have had more European campaigns but not that many

Set against that backdrop Ross is about as successful as it gets for a hibs manager outside turnbull, miller, Collins and Stubbs. He has a third place and European campaign and although not a cup winner we have been pretty consistent in the cup. There are of course questions over two of those cup winning managers being classed as successful but that’s another debate

I keeep reading about the poor quality of football and I think back to butcher, Fenlon, calderwood, heckinbotom as recent examples when it was much worse than it is now. There were some good spells of football from hibs yesterday. Granted some not so good

If hibs decide to replace Ross it would be a huge risk and in my view one that is not necessary right now.

:aok: Finishing 3rd is a tremendous achievement and one very few Hibs teams/managers have achieved, people might do well to remember that.

[LeithMike]

Thats not true, though. We created chances in the first half too. Doig header, goal we scored, Nisbet chance. Both st Johnstone games we've been the better side and won so no idea what you're talking about there.

I agree we've not been great for 90 minutes often enough, but to say we could've been 4 down at half time is absolute bull****. Go find me the last time Hibs were 4-0 down at half time at home.On the balance of the play and chances in the first half, we certainly could have been at least a couple down. Motherwell were by far the better team in the first half. A draw was about right overall but Hibs didn't dominate the second half and had two short good spells in my view. A bit like Livingston at home which was good enough to win that game.

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[Leith Green]

Thats not true, though. We created chances in the first half too. Doig header, goal we scored, Nisbet chance. Both st Johnstone games we've been the better side and won so no idea what you're talking about there.

I agree we've not been great for 90 minutes often enough, but to say we could've been 4 down at half time is absolute bull****. Go find me the last time Hibs were 4-0 down at half time at home.


We were toiling big time to break st johnstone down until we were awarded a fortuitous penalty , it wan actually one of the most boring games of the lot. To say im talking bull **** says more about you than it does me. Motherwell had 4 guilt edged chances to score , so you
Know exactly what i mean. Lets not isolate the st johnstone or motherwell games , what about livingston , st mirren and dundee utd games as well , thats before we throw in the celtic first half which was the same passive rubbish although one thing you can argue is the level of opponent was significantly better than the catalogue of of others. Also worth noting our display up at pittodrie where we couldnt muster a shot on goal in 90 minutes against a side who hadnt won in 10 games.

I have no axe to grind with jack ross , I actually quite like the guy. But I certainly wont let that cloud my judgement of what ive witnessed so far
This season . We have for the largest part been a team who are comfortable passing the ball about the back and into newell or JDH , then back again before a launch upfield. We have been found out with no doidge to compete for the headers . Our style of play if you can call it that is awful to watch , dull and definitely not exciting. Other people may see differently , and thats their opinion.. mines is that we are rubbish to watch , it’s basically boyle or nothing to generate a spark, and that aint good enough

[mcfly]

:aok: Finishing 3rd is a tremendous achievement and one very few Hibs teams/managers have achieved, people might do well to remember that.

We can’t live off one season finishing 3rd.
Where are we now?

We should be aiming to finish 3rd consistently not just a 1 off

[Allant1981]

We can’t live off one season finishing 3rd.
Where are we now?

We should be aiming to finish 3rd consistently not just a 1 off

Do you think the club arent aiming to finish 3rd again?

[Crunchie]

We can’t live off one season finishing 3rd.
Where are we now?

We should be aiming to finish 3rd consistently not just a 1 off
The season hasn't finished yet, but I'll be disappointed if we don't finish top 5. Next year with a full squad we'll be bang up there I've no doubt about that.

[B.H.F.C]

The season hasn't finished yet, but I'll be disappointed if we don't finish top 5. Next year with a full squad we'll be bang up there I've no doubt about that.

Injuries and suspensions happen in fitbaw. Likelihood of having a full squad is pretty slim. Our problem isn’t just lack of depth, it’s lack of quality. If we continue to sign the safety first type and don’t make room for any of the creative type, we’ll not be up anywhere or providing much in the way of entertainment.

[BILLYHIBS]

LAST 8 LEAGUE MATCHES :

Celtic +11 goals for 22 points

The Rangers +14 for 20

Aberdeen +3 for 13

Dundee -4 for 13

Dundee United 0 for 11

Motherwell -4 for 11

Hearts +1 for 9

Livingston -1 for 9

Ross County +1 for 8

St Johnstone-4 for 8

St Mirren -7 for 4

Hibernian -8 for 4


Lies damned lies and statistics

I’m not getting hysterical YET! :greengrin

[mcfly]

The season hasn't finished yet, but I'll be disappointed if we don't finish top 5. Next year with a full squad we'll be bang up there I've no doubt about that.

Top 5 isn’t an improvement-

However the alarming fall in the crowds has to be a concern and that’s something the club should be contacting everyone on their database to ask why they

(1) didn’t renew season tickets
(2) bought season tickets but don’t go
(3) used to have season tickets but stopped
(4) what could club do to entice them back

We have a marketing department- they need to engage with lost fans.

Apologies if they do but I’ve pals that used to go regularly but stopped and hibs never contact them

[Crunchie]

Injuries and suspensions happen in fitbaw. Likelihood of having a full squad is pretty slim. Our problem isn’t just lack of depth, it’s lack of quality. If we continue to sign the safety first type and don’t make room for any of the creative type, we’ll not be up anywhere or providing much in the way of entertainment.
Who's signing safety first types? If you want entertainment I suggest you stay in and watch strictly or jungle shows. All Hibs fans want is a team on the park giving 100% and hopefully winning.

[Coco Bryce]

LAST 8 LEAGUE MATCHES :

Celtic +11 goals for 22 points

The Rangers +14 for 20

Aberdeen +3 for 13

Dundee -4 for 13

Dundee United 0 for 11

Motherwell -4 for 11

Hearts +1 for 9

Livingston -1 for 9

Ross County +1 for 8

St Johnstone-4 for 8

St Mirren -7 for 4

Hibernian -8 for 4


Lies damned lies and statistics

I’m not getting hysterical YET! :greengrin

That's horrendous stats. We're playing well though 🙄 Should have seen how bad we were in the early 70s and 80s... blah blah blah.

[Brooster]

Is this the way of of the world now or cancel culture or whatever they call it. Unreal to think that some Hibs 'fans' were high as a kite after a great performance in the semi the 2 weeks later want the manager sacked. We are under performing in some areas but personally I think we were unlucky not to get more than 1 pont from the last 2 games. Raise performances 10% and get a bit of luck and I think we will be fine.

[Crunchie]

That's horrendous stats. We're playing well though 🙄 Should have seen how bad we were in the early 70s and 80s... blah blah blah.
Let's see what the stats are like the next 8 games :aok:

[Crunchie]

Is this the way of of the world now or cancel culture or whatever they call it. Unreal to think that some Hibs 'fans' were high as a kite after a great performance in the semi the 2 weeks later want the manager sacked. We are under performing in some areas but personally I think we were unlucky not to get more than 1 pont from the last 2 games. Raise performances 10% and get a bit of luck and I think we will be fine.
Absolutely mate :aok:, we were outstanding against the rangers and have a cup final to look forward to.

[Coco Bryce]

Let's see what the stats are like the next 8 games :aok:

I'm still attending the games. Just not enjoying them Crunchie.
Failing to beat Livi on Wednesday could be my last game for the foreseeable. Would rather do something else now to be honest.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is this the way of of the world now or cancel culture or whatever they call it. Unreal to think that some Hibs 'fans' were high as a kite after a great performance in the semi the 2 weeks later want the manager sacked. We are under performing in some areas but personally I think we were unlucky not to get more than 1 pont from the last 2 games. Raise performances 10% and get a bit of luck and I think we will be fine.

:agree: much the same was being said about Aberdeen/Glass a few weeks ago.

[lucky]

JR will get to the Hearts game. If loses the cup final followed but a defeat to Hearts two weeks later he will be gone. The club will have no choice our current league form of 4 points out of 24 is relegation form. I’d also question the amount of extended contracts Hibs have been handing out. JDH and Newell have done nothing to deserve longer deals. Since Dempster left Hibs seem to be going backwards at an alarming rate.

[Northernhibee]

Is this the way of of the world now or cancel culture or whatever they call it. Unreal to think that some Hibs 'fans' were high as a kite after a great performance in the semi the 2 weeks later want the manager sacked. We are under performing in some areas but personally I think we were unlucky not to get more than 1 pont from the last 2 games. Raise performances 10% and get a bit of luck and I think we will be fine.

Using the phrase “cancel culture” for a discussion on whether or not Jack Ross is the most suitable man for the job is potentially the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever read on here.

Congratulations, that takes some doing.

[The Modfather]

Is this the way of of the world now or cancel culture or whatever they call it. Unreal to think that some Hibs 'fans' were high as a kite after a great performance in the semi the 2 weeks later want the manager sacked. We are under performing in some areas but personally I think we were unlucky not to get more than 1 pont from the last 2 games. Raise performances 10% and get a bit of luck and I think we will be fine.

What about all the debate and concerns from the last season and a half that aren’t directly related to results? A sizeable number of people, me included, didn’t enjoy watching us last season. Being able to be there in person hasn’t changed the fact I don’t enjoy watching this team. The trend seems to be fewer and fewer people attending than the missing numbers coming back. I’m not sure the apathy and disconnect with a sizeable portion of the fan base and the team/manager changes with an upturn in results. Price, style, enjoyment are all elements alongside results that are impacting attendances IMO.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I've been with JR from the start and want him to stay. But his post match comments for me that we played well and dominated large periods were a warning sign.

I never felt like we had any real control over the game for any sustained period. We never controlled the ball and possession to pass our way through the opposition. We are as careless in possession as I can remember us since he came in. Seemed to me more and more we relied on our quality up top latching on to hopeful long balls into channels to create something.

I was surprised to hear on the radio on the way home just how entertaining they all thought the game was. Thinking back there were chances at both ends but I thought the quality on offer was so poor and way below standards that we have set previous.

Important run for us now up to and including the cup final.

[Allant1981]

I've been with JR from the start and want him to stay. But his post match comments for me that we played well and dominated large periods were a warning sign.

I never felt like we had any real control over the game for any sustained period. We never controlled the ball and possession to pass our way through the opposition. We are as careless in possession as I can remember us since he came in. Seemed to me more and more we relied on our quality up top latching on to hopeful long balls into channels to create something.

I was surprised to hear on the radio on the way home just how entertaining they all thought the game was. Thinking back there were chances at both ends but I thought the quality on offer was so poor and way below standards that we have set previous.

Important run for us now up to and including the cup final.

We had just short of 70% possession i think, we more than controlled most of the game, some scary defending in the 1st half is probably making the game look worse than it was, there wasnt many long balls in the 2nd half that i can remember but think hypothermia was setting in by then!!

[H18 SFR]

I am enjoying Jack Ross as manager. We had a shocker of a transfer window last time which we have addressed. We lost our most influential midfielder this year and then our striker. We’ve suffered for that big time.

Solid January window and we will have a strong second half of the season.

Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

There is not one solitary side other than arguably Celtic in our league that play open and expansive football. Not one.

[Brooster]

Using the phrase “cancel culture” for a discussion on whether or not Jack Ross is the most suitable man for the job is potentially the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever read on here.

Congratulations, that takes some doing.

Is that right aye, the most ludicrous thing you've ever read on here aye, sensationalism at it's best.

[B.H.F.C]

Who's signing safety first types? If you want entertainment I suggest you stay in and watch strictly or jungle shows. All Hibs fans want is a team on the park giving 100% and hopefully winning.

Look at the midfield 5 that have started the last 5 games, 1 goal between them all season. I want more than just a team that give 100%. Players like Cadden are good at running up and down the park, not going to create anything or get you off your seat though.

[Brooster]

JR will get to the Hearts game. If loses the cup final followed but a defeat to Hearts two weeks later he will be gone. The club will have no choice our current league form of 4 points out of 24 is relegation form. I’d also question the amount of extended contracts Hibs have been handing out. JDH and Newell have done nothing to deserve longer deals. Since Dempster left Hibs seem to be going backwards at an alarming rate.

Does 4 points from 9 make it sound any better?

[mcfly]

I am enjoying Jack Ross as manager. We had a shocker of a transfer window last time which we have addressed. We lost our most influential midfielder this year and then our striker. We’ve suffered for that big time.

Solid January window and we will have a strong second half of the season.

Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

There is not one solitary side other than arguably Celtic in our league that play open and expansive football. Not one.

I’m glad you are enjoying him as a manger.

Maybe you can tell the 4K people that no longer go how great a watch hibs are at the moment.

🙄🙄🙄

[Allant1981]

So

Ross in camp: are allowed to focus on the positives

Ross out camp: point out it’s poor results regardless of performances

And Ross out voters are deemed surplus to requirements on the forum and told they don’t attend games

Love this forum

And yet by your own admission you dont go to games so kind of proves the point

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m glad you are enjoying him as a manger.

Maybe you can tell the 4K people that no longer go how great a watch hibs are at the moment.

🙄🙄🙄

They'll come flooding back after a good few wins. They always do. Then they'll moan when we lose a couple. Then they'll stop going. Repeat.

[Northernhibee]

They'll come flooding back after a good few wins. They always do. Then they'll moan when we lose a couple. Then they'll stop going. Repeat.

I’m not convinced that’s the case. It’s way more difficult to get people back into the habit of going to games than to keep them in the habit and with the squeeze on finances I think you’d be surprised.

[Northernhibee]

Is that right aye, the most ludicrous thing you've ever read on here aye, sensationalism at it's best.

😂 WTF does a calm discussion on whether a manager is up to the job or not “cancel culture”?

Put down the newspaper. “Cancel culture” doesn’t exist.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m not convinced that’s the case. It’s way more difficult to get people back into the habit of going to games than to keep them in the habit and with the squeeze on finances I think you’d be surprised.

They money aspect is definitely a good point, one I do agree with. Its causing me to miss away games I wouldn't normally. It's not a reason for st holders to miss games, not really.

It's all about winning. A good next couple weeks, we'll be selling out the derby and everyone will be buzzing. Football fans are extremely fickle, and watching them saying they're not is a laugh. Why do you think the teams who win every week get the biggest crowds? It's that simple.

[Northernhibee]

They money aspect is definitely a good point, one I do agree with. Its causing me to miss away games I wouldn't normally. It's not a reason for st holders to miss games, not really.

It's all about winning. A good next couple weeks, we'll be selling out the derby and everyone will be buzzing. Football fans are extremely fickle, and watching them saying they're not is a laugh. Why do you think the teams who win every week get the biggest crowds? It's that simple.

We seen a massive bump after the SC16 because it was a once in several lifetimes moment that will likely never be replicated. The league cup this year? I’m not so sure.

What alarmed me that led to starting the thread is the total lack of anger that comes with a run of terrible form, it’s just absolute apathy. JR has had several high profile embarrassing results and I don’t know if the support care enough to return even with a few wins over Livi and Dundee.

I’m not sure this cycle of fan apathy is going to be as easy to crack as we think.

[H18 SFR]

I’m glad you are enjoying him as a manger.

Maybe you can tell the 4K people that no longer go how great a watch hibs are at the moment.

🙄🙄🙄

I’m not an apologist for anyone.

[J-C]

:aok: Finishing 3rd is a tremendous achievement and one very few Hibs teams/managers have achieved, people might do well to remember that.


Hearts in the championship, Aberdeen in transition, the rest of the teams decidedly average and no crowds to get on the players backs, it was a perfect opportunity to grab 3rd, add in a poor Celtic to the equation.

Biggest mistakes was not winning at least 1 cup, beaten by a poor Hearts and humbled twice by an average St Johnstone, we should be kicking on after the good cup runs and 3rd in the league, instead we are on a horrendous league run and struggling to stay in the top 6. No matter what Ron and company say, they will be looking very closely at all this and will be contemplating Ross's future very soon, if not already.

[MWHIBBIES]

We seen a massive bump after the SC16 because it was a once in several lifetimes moment that will likely never be replicated. The league cup this year? I’m not so sure.

What alarmed me that led to starting the thread is the total lack of anger that comes with a run of terrible form, it’s just absolute apathy. JR has had several high profile embarrassing results and I don’t know if the support care enough to return even with a few wins over Livi and Dundee.

I’m not sure this cycle of fan apathy is going to be as easy to crack as we think.
Name any Hibs manager ever who hasn't had several high profile awful results?

This is just the most awful argument. If Ross turns this around and folk still don't get behind him, they're not Hibs fans.

[The Modfather]

They money aspect is definitely a good point, one I do agree with. Its causing me to miss away games I wouldn't normally. It's not a reason for st holders to miss games, not really.

It's all about winning. A good next couple weeks, we'll be selling out the derby and everyone will be buzzing. Football fans are extremely fickle, and watching them saying they're not is a laugh. Why do you think the teams who win every week get the biggest crowds? It's that simple.

What about those that have consistently said they didn’t enjoy last season despite finishing 3rd? Results are important, but not the be all and end all for everyone. I just want to enjoy my 90 minutes more often than not, any success on the back of that is a bonus. I’ve not enjoyed much of the last season and a half despite the success.

[Northernhibee]

Name any Hibs manager ever who hasn't had several high profile awful results?

This is just the most awful argument. If Ross turns this around and folk still don't get behind him, they're not Hibs fans.

Completely disagree with your last sentence.

Ross has had three Hampden visits that were dreadful and an absolute horsing at home in a derby. Four horrendous performances and results in the space of a couple of years. That’s not a good ratio. We’ve also seen trouncings by three or more goals against the likes of Livi and Dundee United.

You can never quite escape the feeling that another howler is just around the corner.

You can call people Hibs fans or not, but we need their money. I’ll still go as much as I can but it feels like a chore as of late. Clearly is the same for others.

[bigwheel]

Name any Hibs manager ever who hasn't had several high profile awful results?

This is just the most awful argument. If Ross turns this around and folk still don't get behind him, they're not Hibs fans.

MWH you’ve been brilliant and resilient on this thread. I’m completely with you on your position - just didn’t have the energy to get involved tbh …

I think Ross , despite recent results, has notably improved us , in ways we’ve not got right for some time .

I really hope he turns this around, as he and the team deserve it. My one worry is for him, and perhaps the only real risk is “is he an unlucky manager”? As it often seems things go against him when he most needs it to go for him .

Come on Jack and team , let’s see us grind out some points and put this noise behind us !

[MWHIBBIES]

What about those that have consistently said they didn’t enjoy last season despite finishing 3rd? Results are important, but not the be all and end all for everyone. I just want to enjoy my 90 minutes more often than not, any success on the back of that is a bonus. I’ve not enjoyed much of the last season and a half despite the success.

Most of them are the ones who consistently moan about our playstyle, regardless of manager. Probably got tornadoes posters in their room still.


Hibs play decent football, every start backs this up. Not wonderful stuff, but decent enough. The Hibs teams who played better football were either soft boybands (not my words) or won absolutely nothing.

[Tambo]

They money aspect is definitely a good point, one I do agree with. Its causing me to miss away games I wouldn't normally. It's not a reason for st holders to miss games, not really.

It's all about winning. A good next couple weeks, we'll be selling out the derby and everyone will be buzzing. Football fans are extremely fickle, and watching them saying they're not is a laugh. Why do you think the teams who win every week get the biggest crowds? It's that simple.

Ive only managed one game so far this season from the south east of england as when I could have went the price of accomodation was ridiculous. I thought the prices could have been due to the cop26 as the first few months of next year is much cheaper.

Can't wait to get back to Easter Road in 2022 and would love to do a house swap if someone is that bored 😁

[The Modfather]

Most of them are the ones who consistently moan about our playstyle, regardless of manager. Probably got tornadoes posters in their room still.


Hibs play decent football, every start backs this up. Not wonderful stuff, but decent enough. The Hibs teams who played better football were either soft boybands (not my words) or won absolutely nothing.

I’m not sure making sweeping generalisations like your first paragraph, because it aligns to your argument, makes for a constructive debate. There’s lots of balanced and respected posters on here who have said for a long time they don’t particularly enjoy watching this Hibs team. Or that they don’t feel an affinity with the team or manager and as a result are very, meh, as to Ross staying or going. I think simply equating fans not attending due to short term results and that they’ll be back again when we’re winning doesn’t scratch the surface of some real issues facing Hibs.

Anyway, I’ve said my piece about how I feel about the style and enjoyment etc on enough threads so I’m just repeating myself now and I’ll bow out of the debates.

[Skol]

We can’t live off one season finishing 3rd.
Where are we now?

We should be aiming to finish 3rd consistently not just a 1 off

Since the famous five have we ever finished top three two years in a row ? I doubt it very much. I agree we should aim for that but to say it’s a failure if we don’t is unrealistic

[Crunchie]

Since the famous five have we ever finished top three two years in a row ? I doubt it very much. I agree we should aim for that but to say it’s a failure if we don’t is unrealistic
I think we did once in the early 70s and that would be it.

[Spike Mandela]

This reminds me of Hearts fans clamour to get rid of Nielson. Didn't know what they had till they got rid. Bottom six finishes and relegation beckoned.

[Since452]

I'm looking forward to Ross continuing to progress us over the next two or three seasons. One bad transfer window, injuries to key players and a Covid outbreak doesn't change my opinion. The players are still playing for him, we aren't playing badly just now and just need a break. Only two weeks ago he gave me my most enjoyable game since 21/5/16.

[Alfred E Newman]

JR will get to the Hearts game. If loses the cup final followed but a defeat to Hearts two weeks later he will be gone. The club will have no choice our current league form of 4 points out of 24 is relegation form. I’d also question the amount of extended contracts Hibs have been handing out. JDH and Newell have done nothing to deserve longer deals. Since Dempster left Hibs seem to be going backwards at an alarming rate.

I get the impression that you will be disappointed if it doesn’t pan out this way.
Recent league results may have been poor but this thread is ridiculous and embarrassing especially when we are only a couple of weeks away from a cup final.

[ekhibee]

Stubbs won the Scottish Cup for us but didn't get us promoted, it could be Ross wins the League Cup for us but doesn't get us into the top 3. Early days yet though, a long way to go in the season.

[Lancs Harp]

Since the famous five have we ever finished top three two years in a row ? I doubt it very much. I agree we should aim for that but to say it’s a failure if we don’t is unrealistic

Get the jiste of the point you are making but from 1972/3 over the next four seasons we finished 3rd, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd on the trot.

[Skol]

Get the jiste of the point you are making but from 1972/3 over the next four seasons we finished 3rd, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd on the trot.

Almost 50 years ago and also in the days before the old firm had the advantages they gave today.

[Since452]

Stubbs won the Scottish Cup for us but didn't get us promoted, it could be Ross wins the League Cup for us but doesn't get us into the top 3. Early days yet though, a long way to go in the season.

Winning the League Cup and finishing 4th would go down as one of the best in our history. Even the swashbuckling team that battered Killie 5-1 in the final and everyone looks upon fondly only finished 6th, 6 points behind that same Killie team. A hell of a lot of work to do to get to that stage though.

[greenlex]

Almost 50 years ago and also in the days before the old firm had the advantages they gave today.
Add in the change to three points for a win a smaller league and it’s almost impossible to shift the two uglies from their perch.

[madhatter]

Since the famous five have we ever finished top three two years in a row ? I doubt it very much. I agree we should aim for that but to say it’s a failure if we don’t is unrealistic

We've always been rubbish so don't complain if we continue to be rubbish?

Club have raised the bar by talking a good game. It's their fault expectations have gone up. Maybe club have been unrealistic by talking about pipedreams while delivering the usual stuff?

I won't be only one but apathy and boredom with Hibs has seriously crept in and all the debating around that being a reality is pointless. The stands being half empty (or worse) shows quite a few people can't be bothered turning up to watch Hibs.