The non hysterical case for a new manager

[mcfly]

We've always been rubbish so don't complain if we continue to be rubbish?

Club have raised the bar by talking a good game. It's their fault expectations have gone up. Maybe club have been unrealistic by talking about pipedreams while delivering the usual stuff?

I won't be only one but apathy and boredom with Hibs has seriously crept in and all the debating around that being a reality is pointless. The stands being half empty (or worse) shows quite a few people can't be bothered turning up to watch Hibs.

I totally agree

The empty stands are a real worry as that is a lot of lost revenue

We need to get those lost fans back

[blackpoolhibs]

All teams get injuries and have bad luck, they’re not unique to Hibs. Ross was definitely let down with the summer recruitment and that is a valid factor to this season. It should also be noted that the team that finished 3rd wasn’t broken up as is often the reason for a slump the following season. You can’t be talking about writing seasons off without questioning whether the manager is getting the most out of what he has available. For me he isn’t.

We spent most of the first part of the season up near the top of the league, then two of our most influential players are out injured for a long period.

Doidge and McGennis were scoring our goals, and creating chances for others but sadly they were out.

This showed everyone the bad window we had in the summer with squad size and quality, who's fault was it, well only one man was sacked.

I'm sure we will see us strengthen and get better with Ross in charge and the right backing, he's already shown he can produce a good side.

[Iain G]

We spent most of the first part of the season up near the top of the league, then two of our most influential players are out injured for a long period.

Doidge and McGennis were scoring our goals, and creating chances for others but sadly they were out.

This showed everyone the bad window we had in the summer with squad size and quality, who's fault was it, well only one man was sacked.

I'm sure we will see us strengthen and get better with Ross in charge and the right backing, he's already shown he can produce a good side.

He needs another transfer window and to rebalance the team and squad and to get back to the early season football where we took the game to the opposition.

With Nisbet, Doidge, Boyle, Magennis all fit and playing we have a great goal threat.

I do think that Jack is a safety first manager and isn't one to roll the dice and gamble as much as he could or should, maybe without that ability to take a risk we won't move forward?

[blackpoolhibs]

He needs another transfer window and to rebalance the team and squad and to get back to the early season football where we took the game to the opposition.

With Nisbet, Doidge, Boyle, Magennis all fit and playing we have a great goal threat.

I do think that Jack is a safety first manager and isn't one to roll the dice and gamble as much as he could or should, maybe without that ability to take a risk we won't move forward?

I keep reading this about him being a safety first manager, i dont see it myself. Only recently have we had Doidge and Murphy back from injuries, Murphy has played when fit, but always seems to be coming back from one injury or another.

We have Boyle who is our other main threat with Nisbet being off form, we've hardly had any game changers on the bench, but when everyone was fit, most people were commenting on how well we were playing and the play was more open and entertaining.

We do need more bodies in, but they do have to be a better quality than some of the bench currently are.

[Steve88]

Jack Ross's football is boring

It's all about ball retention. pass it from one side to the other. Be conservative.

And if you're not sure, give it to Hanlon/Porto to route 1 it.

Grow some B**ls JR. Be direct with your passing. Attack. Stop trying to play this "pretty" modern football

Next manager. Ideally someone with who's won something to install a better mentality in this squad

[MWHIBBIES]

Jack Ross's football is boring

It's all about ball retention. pass it from one side to the other. Be conservative.

And if you're not sure, give it to Hanlon/Porto to route 1 it.

Grow some B**ls JR. Be direct with your passing. Attack. Stop trying to play this "pretty" modern football

Next manager. Ideally someone with who's won something to install a better mentality in this squad

Yep, hopefully a neil lennon type. His big mentally won us loads. Got Celtic their 10IAR too.

[Allant1981]

Jack Ross's football is boring

It's all about ball retention. pass it from one side to the other. Be conservative.

And if you're not sure, give it to Hanlon/Porto to route 1 it.

Grow some B**ls JR. Be direct with your passing. Attack. Stop trying to play this "pretty" modern football

Next manager. Ideally someone with who's won something to install a better mentality in this squad

You do know JR won the championship, or does it only count as winning something if its in a higher league

Think he may also have won manager of the year that season

[Steve88]

You do know JR won the championship, or does it only count as winning something if its in a higher league

Think he may also have won manager of the year that season

No group of players in the premiership look at a manager and think " wow, this guy won manager of the year... the championship"

If Ron is as ambitious as he says he is about the club, the next appointment when it comes needs to be something very very impressive..

(I'm still in the camp of keeping JR for now until the end of the season..)

[Steve88]

Yep, hopefully a neil lennon type. His big mentally won us loads. Got Celtic their 10IAR too.

You're confusing ego with winning mentality here..

[Allant1981]

No group of players in the premiership look at a manager and think " wow, this guy won manager of the year... the championship"

If Ron is as ambitious as he says he is about the club, the next appointment when it comes needs to be something very very impressive..

(I'm still in the camp of keeping JR for now until the end of the season..)

Do you realise how daft that sounds, some of the best coaches/managers in the world didnt win much or anything as players, glad clubs dont think like that any longer

[eastterrace]

Stubbs won the Scottish Cup for us but didn't get us promoted, it could be Ross wins the League Cup for us but doesn't get us into the top 3. Early days yet though, a long way to go in the season.
Stubbs had us playing decent football no like the mince we are served now.

[Steve88]

Do you realise how daft that sounds, some of the best coaches/managers in the world didnt win much or anything as players, glad clubs dont think like that any longer

I'm talking about winning as a manager, not a player.

Zero interest in what a former player turned manager achieved in their playing career

Dafty..

[Allant1981]

I'm talking about winning as a manager, not a player.

Zero interest in what a former player turned manager achieved in their playing career

Dafty..


Ok lets bring john hughes back, he won the scottish cup, and less of the dafty comment

[blackpoolhibs]

Stubbs had us playing decent football no like the mince we are served now.
We were playing that well we had 4 attendances over 10k that season we won the cup at easter road, one as low as 6686.

[GreenCastle]

Jack Ross / Hibs need to sign some creative exciting players.

This will go a long way to help make the team more exciting to watch plus make us less predictable to play against.

If we sign average - dull / safe players we will continue to get the similar type of performances. Boyle and Allan have X factor - fans want them playing every week. Nisbet maybe too but we need more creativity with end product.

Hearts recruitment was so much better than ours this summer and look what a few changes have made.

We have several squad players not contributing enough and are lineups are so predictable.

If Jack Ross can add more quality and depth he will keep his job - if he doesn’t for whatever reason this will get worse and the pressure will mount.

Surely if we sign exciting players fans won’t have the “boring” excuse they keep coming out with.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm sort of in the can't make my mind up camp. Hibs aren't terrible by any means, even in the games we have lost with the exception of Dundee Utd at home where we were frankly terrible we have had decent periods in the games we have lost. For all we were rank in the first half against Celtic we were far far better in the second half and against Rangers the other night we were far far better than some folk seemed determined to paint us.

What we are absolutely missing is a penalty box finisher, I've lost count of the number of decent, sometimes excellent, balls we have flashed across goal in this miserable run with nobody getting near them, not least of all yesterday when the only guy who got near to putting in one of these excellent crosses was Ryan Porteous, a centre half.

In the end managers are judged on results, not performances, and the longer this miserable run continues it wont matter how unlucky we have been or how well we have played in defeat after defeat with the odd win against 10 men and home draw chucked in, Jack Ross will be out and he won't have enough credit in the bank for many folk to cry over it. Don't get me wrong, if we can hit the heights we did last time out at Hampden and actually win the League Cup he will make it into next season just so long as we avoid a relegation battle and deservedly so.

But history is against him. In the near 50 years since beating Celtic in the 1972 League cup final Hibs record against Celtic at Hampden,and once at Ibrox, is nothing short of abysmal, it seems all they ever have to do is turn up to gain an easy by the numbers 3 goal victory. If that happens again and we can't even claim bad luck as a reason for defeat he had better turn this league form around quick, because that game is followed by a home match with Aberdeen and a derby .... lose them, especially the derby, and the fans will turn big time ... especially the ones who can still be bothered to turn up.

Edit. Yes I know Nisbet had a fabulous finish yesterday from a good cross, but when it comes to him that's very much the exception to the rule, 9 times out of 10 he's nowhere to be seen when the ball is flashed across the 6 yard box.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm pretty much where PB is with regards to Ross, it's all just a bit meh. If Boyle isn't on form we basically don't win.

[LunasBoots]

This season for me now is a bit of a damp squib, 'the players are still performing for the manager but we lack a couple good players, need to give Ross at least another transfer window but i do see what alot of Sunderland fans said about his side, good play and not enough goals/to many draws.

[MWHIBBIES]

This season for me now is a bit of a damp squib, 'the players are still performing for the manager but we lack a couple good players, need to give Ross at least another transfer window.

We're in a cup final, still in the Scottish and over 20 league games to go. Not even remotely a damp squib.

[A Hi-Bee]

We lack the quality players that bigger money would allow us to go for, we can laugh all we want at the manky neighbors (**** the hertz) but the higher financial level they can operate at is starting to show its ugly face. Money means quality we lack both.
:flag::flag::flag:

[MWHIBBIES]

We lack the quality players that bigger money would allow us to go for, we can laugh all we want at the manky neighbors (**** the hertz) but the higher financial level they can operate at is starting to show its ugly face. Money means quality we lack both.
:flag::flag::flag:

Hearts don't have better players than us.

[A Hi-Bee]

Hearts don't have better players than us.

I said that they can now operate at a higher financial level than we can right now, our league position is just all down to bad luck is it? or is it just a poor manager.......

[Yorkshire HFC]

I think we did once in the early 70s and that would be it.

But if Jack does it and wins a Cup then the experts on here want him sacked?

This place is bonkers.

[A Hi-Bee]

But if Jack does it and wins a Cup then the experts on here want him sacked?

This place is bonkers.

No incorrect, not bonkers at all, just irrational, hysterical along with a fair old mix of shiete stirrers who may or not support Hibs, perfect for a football forum.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I don’t know any Sunderland fans so I don’t think
I’m able to comment on this.

[MWHIBBIES]

I said that they can now operate at a higher financial level than we can right now, our league position is just all down to bad luck is it? or is it just a poor manager.......
It's not all down to bad luck, but a lot of it us. A covid outbreak and serious injuries aren't bad management.

[heretoday]

It's easy to say why can't we reproduce the spirit that beat Rangers in the semi - harder to do on a dreich afternoon at Easter Road. It shouldn't be.

Ross obviously finds it hard to fire up his team at home.

[loanheadhibby]

It's not all down to bad luck, but a lot of it us. A covid outbreak and serious injuries aren't bad management.

You (along with others) have put up a stout defence of JR and the team.

I’m wondering when is the tipping point for the guys who want the manager to stay? If we get to January and are still struggling? If we lost cup final? Is it now a game by game situation?

I hope we do go on a run but for JR’s own situation, it needs to start soon.

[greenlex]

You (along with others) have put up a stout defence of JR and the team.

I’m wondering when is the tipping point for the guys who want the manager to stay? If we get to January and are still struggling? If we lost cup final? Is it now a game by game situation?

I hope we do go on a run but for JR’s own situation, it needs to start soon.
For me if the performances drop to the stage we are being beaten regularly by teams we should be winning against whilst not creating chances. When I say regularly it would need to over s sustained period. Form even for the best teams dip. The really good teams have enough quality to cope and usually grind out daws or even wins. We aren’t a really good team. We don’t have the resources. It’s a fine line some games but other than Dundee Utd at ER and Aberdeen away we gave had decent spells in most games if not long enough or sustained enough. Ross deserves a window or three yet before we should be remotely thinking about replacing him if there isn’t sustained performances and results. Him and the team deserve much more support than we are currently giving them.

[Mainstandman]

It's easy to say why can't we reproduce the spirit that beat Rangers in the semi - harder to do on a dreich afternoon at Easter Road. It shouldn't be.

Ross obviously finds it hard to fire up his team at home.

I think it’s the fact they are not a team, there’s individual effort but it takes a full cohesive team to consistently perform well. The question on the motivational powers of Ross is really a moot point, as i think the root cause is a poor team unit, we clearly can’t control games. They need to focus on the basics of a team and not just trying to be up for it. Too often passes are astray, slow to a stationary target, there’s little movement and that easy to defend against. We don’t retain the ball as our efforts are from crosses or individual effort that all too often gives the ball away. Because of this we are easy to score against and give the ball up often

[MWHIBBIES]

You (along with others) have put up a stout defence of JR and the team.

I’m wondering when is the tipping point for the guys who want the manager to stay? If we get to January and are still struggling? If we lost cup final? Is it now a game by game situation?

I hope we do go on a run but for JR’s own situation, it needs to start soon.

I'd like to know what it would take for folk to fully support him. Because it's never happened from day 1.

[loanheadhibby]

For me if the performances drop to the stage we are being beaten regularly by teams we should be winning against whilst not creating chances. When I say regularly it would need to over s sustained period. Form even for the best teams dip. The really good teams have enough quality to cope and usually grind out daws or even wins. We aren’t a really good team. We don’t have the resources. It’s a fine line some games but other than Dundee Utd at ER and Aberdeen away we gave had decent spells in most games if not long enough or sustained enough. Ross deserves a window or three yet before we should be remotely thinking about replacing him if there isn’t sustained performances and results. Him and the team deserve much more support than we are currently giving them.

My immediate worry is we have had a run of poor losing performances, then a few good performances without getting the win. You could stumble in to relegation form when you are playing well but not winning.

i think with the ****bos doing well, it also puts additional pressure on the club and magnifies our own inadequacies.

These things can change quickly. We really need a win on Wednesday night.

[Hermit Crab]

I'd like to know what it would take for folk to fully support him. Because it's never happened from day 1.


Winning games and not losing to teams like Ross County and Dundee Utd without as much as whimper would be a start.

[MWHIBBIES]

Winning games and not losing to teams like Ross County and Dundee Utd without as much as whimper would be a start.

He's beat Dundee United 4 times, including a cup semi and quarter final. Lost 1.

Poor record vs county, that's for sure.

So basically you're just upset with his recent bad run, which is fine. I am too. But your man Doidge securing 3rd for us last season surely outweighs a poor 7 game run?

[loanheadhibby]

I'd like to know what it would take for folk to fully support him. Because it's never happened from day 1.

i am reading this as you will 100% back him whatever he does.

I doubt any Hibs manager has ever had the full support of the fans. it’s just human nature. I remember when Miller was appointed and the fans were up in arms because he was a Hun.

I think JR probably still has the backing of the majority of fans. That will evaporate quickly tho if form does not pick up before the winter break. He needs to convince people he has the ability to turn this retched form around.

[LaMotta]

I'd like to know what it would take for folk to fully support him. Because it's never happened from day 1.


I think people were generally all behind him at the start - after the 3-1 defeat to Stendel's shambolic Hearts team I would agree with you that he hasn't had everyone on side.

The derby on Jan 3rd is huge for him in terms of fan support.

His record so far is: played 4, won 1, drew 1, lost 2. If he loses that I think he would have a really difficult time recovering ( unless we win the cup).

[MWHIBBIES]

i am reading this as you will 100% back him whatever he does.

I doubt any Hibs manager has ever had the full support of the fans. it’s just human nature. I remember when Miller was appointed and the fans were up in arms because he was a Hun.

I think JR probably still has the backing of the majority of fans. That will evaporate quickly tho if form does not pick up before the winter break. He needs to convince people he has the ability to turn this retched form around.
No idea why you're reading it that way, because that's obviously not the case. I've already said that's not the case.

[easty]

Winning games and not losing to teams like Ross County and Dundee Utd without as much as whimper would be a start.

We’ve lost to teams like that (and worse) every year I can remember, under every manager.

Mowbrays team in his first season was pumped 3-0 off of Livi (at home!) and Inverness. Lost home and away to Killie. Second season beat 4-0, 4-0 and 4-1 by Hearts, lost at home to Inverness (twice!), pumped by Dunfermline in cup, lost at home to Falkirk.

Under Stubbs in his first season we lose at home to Falkirk three times, lost to Alloa, QotS twice, Raith. Second season, lost to Dumbarton, pumped at home by Morton, beat by Dumbarton, QotS, Raith, Alloa.

They were our good managers!

If you’re not going to be happy until we have a gaffer who makes sure we don’t lose to the “smaller” teams, then you’re never ever going to be happy.

[Ronniekirk]

The issues of why we weren’t doing that well and had gone into a losing streak, were well rehearsed at the time and widely accepted by the majority on here
Yes Doidge is now back but in reality it will take weeks snd more game time just to get him match fit
Murphy will need to be eased back in so he gets stronger and match fit
Mcgennis we won’t see back this year
None of the fringe players ( Campbell excepted ) have managed to stake a first team place
So three games a week was always going to be difficult to navigate
In reality we aren’t playing as badly as we did in a couple of the early games that started the poor run of form
But the frustration clearly felt by a lot of fans is that in itself isn’t leading to us returning to winning ways
With a fit on form Doidge and Mcgennis and and a few new players being brought in that can improve the team there is a hope we will then start to win games again
But the new backroom staff tasked with recruitment have yet to prove thier worth
If McGennis injury is not healing do we need a short term replacement for him ?
If Hanlon or Porto go out with an injury for a few weeks at present we are in trouble
Some say Ross is too risk averse Yet we wee were comfortably in third place a few months back
His record of getting us to Hampden is good but to finally win a Cup we need our best team on form He is going to be deprived of that for Celtic game
So unless Ron Gordon is so Ambitious he has a better manager in mind that he can throw money at Ross will be given the next window to see if he can get us back up the league and how new players settle in and make an impact
In the meantime it’s a case of trying not to loose games snd find a way to win a few
For me that’s where we are at
Am not happy about it , but I understand why it’s happened and can see a way forward
The one thing that could change that is if we go on another five game losing streak ,but am not expecting that to happen



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[MWHIBBIES]

We’ve lost to teams like that (and worse) every year I can remember, under every manager.

Mowbrays team in his first season was pumped 3-0 off of Livi (at home!) and Inverness. Lost home and away to Killie. Second season beat 4-0, 4-0 and 4-1 by Hearts, lost at home to Inverness (twice!), pumped by Dunfermline in cup, lost at home to Falkirk.

Under Stubbs in his first season we lose at home to Falkirk three times, lost to Alloa, QotS twice, Raith. Second season, lost to Dumbarton, pumped at home by Morton, beat by Dumbarton, QotS, Raith, Alloa.

They were our good managers!

If you’re not going to be happy until we have a gaffer who makes sure we don’t lose to the “smaller” teams, then you’re never ever going to be happy.

Yep.. Utter bloody fantasy stuff for Hibs to never have a bad day.

[H18 SFR]

The good thing is that he isn’t getting sacked anytime soon. A couple of wins and we can all pull together behind the team - at the end of the day, it’s what we are here for, to support.

[The Modfather]

I'd like to know what it would take for folk to fully support him. Because it's never happened from day 1.

For me, a different style of football. One that doesn’t involve playing both JDH and Newell closer to our own goal than the oppositions goal whether we’re playing Ross County or Rangers. Start games with a much higher tempo and intensity. More consistent performances. We can go from awful to great from game to game and even half to half. Less reliance on either Nisbet, Doidge or particularly Boyle for all our goals. We have 2 or 3 players that we rely on for goals and that’s about it as far as the whole squad is concerned, rarely does anyone else chip in. Change all/some of that, alongside generally good results and signings and I’ll begin to connect with Ross and this team.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

Who do you bring in.

I don’t know.

Tommy Wright left St Johnstone and nobody rated Davidson. Look where he got.

There’ll be plenty guys out there hungry for success like Tam Courts at United.

As Hibs fans we tread a fine line between success (points) and seeking attractive football. What this period has shown me is I enjoy the latter, win or lose. This brand of football is horrific.

Perhaps what fold are struggling with here is that we are on this slump with a good bunch of players. We should be doing better.


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[HoboHarry]

Winning games and not losing to teams like Ross County and Dundee Utd without as much as whimper would be a start.
It's hard to know where to even start with a comment like that. Is reality just non existent in your world?

[Leith Green]

Hopefully Jack Ross is given a decent wedge in January to bring in a couple of good signings.. To be fair , the club made an arse of the last transfer window.

[H18 SFR]

Hopefully Jack Ross is given a decent wedge in January to bring in a couple of good signings.. To be fair , the club made an arse of the last transfer window.

I think this is an absolute stick on.

[Leith Green]

I think this is an absolute stick on.

Fingers crossed.. Ideally we bring some quality in and get shot of a few squad players, drey wright and gogic spring to mind to get the ball rolling and also the early termination of that james scotts loan deal

[Since452]

It's easy to say why can't we reproduce the spirit that beat Rangers in the semi - harder to do on a dreich afternoon at Easter Road. It shouldn't be.

Ross obviously finds it hard to fire up his team at home.

Ross shouldn't have to fire up the players at home. If the players can't get up for a home game themselves they shouldn't be playing football.