COP26 Glasgow

[Moulin Yarns]

Bicycle tyres, handle bar grips , even shoes use oil bi products.

What do you use for wheel lubrication , if not oil.?

Silicon lubricant!!!!

Rubber, you must have heard of the rubber tree!!

Anyways, even the chemicals industries realise they need to change.

https://www.science.org/content/article/can-world-make-chemicals-it-needs-without-oil

They used to say ignorance is bliss, but I'm not sure anymore. 😉

[WhileTheChief..]

Let me know when they’ve figured out a way to use the internet that doesn’t involve using a product that was made by machines in a factory.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why you trying to pick an argument again? I’m not saying anything controversial whatsoever. Look around you, almost everything is made by machines these days. They’re made of metal. How do you mine ore without using oil?

I can’t believe I’m even having to type this. No oil means us going back to pre industrial revolution days.

[The Tubs]

Why you trying to pick an argument again? I’m not saying anything controversial whatsoever. Look around you, almost everything is made by machines these days. They’re made of metal. How do you mine ore without using oil?

I can’t believe I’m even having to type this. No oil means us going back to pre industrial revolution days.

Please excuse my ignorance with regards to geology. In what way is any kind of oil fundamental to the mining of an ore?

May I add that I am most interested in the combustion of said oil?

[greenginger]

Silicon lubricant!!!!

Rubber, you must have heard of the rubber tree!!

Anyways, even the chemicals industries realise they need to change.

https://www.science.org/content/article/can-world-make-chemicals-it-needs-without-oil

They used to say ignorance is bliss, but I'm not sure anymore. 😉

The majority of tyres are made of synthetic rubber , a product of the oil refining process .

[WhileTheChief..]

Please excuse my ignorance with regards to geology. In what way is any kind of oil fundamental to the mining of an ore?

May I add that I am most interested in the combustion of said oil?

When we first discovered oil, the main components of petrol were discarded as waste. Oil had so many more valuable uses.

Here's a good article on why we became so dependant on it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49499443

[The Tubs]

When we first discovered oil, the main components of petrol were discarded as waste. Oil had so many more valuable uses.

Here's a good article on why we became so dependant on it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49499443


As far as I could see, there’s no mention of this fundamental relationship between any kind of oil and the mining of metals. Have I missed something?

[WhileTheChief..]

As far as I could see, there’s no mention of this fundamental relationship between any kind of oil and the mining of metals. Have I missed something?

No, sorry, just thought that was interesting and you might have found it so too.

On the specific point, think of the machinery that is used. They need oil, it's a pretty simple point. YouTube has pretty cool vids of large scale mining operations. Some of the machines are gigantic!!

[The Tubs]

No, sorry, just thought that was interesting and you might have found it so too.

On the specific point, think of the machinery that is used. They need oil, it's a pretty simple point. YouTube has pretty cool vids of large scale mining operations. Some of the machines are gigantic!!

As a fuel in combustion processes that produce kinetic energy? For lubrication?

With specific regard to the generation of kinetic energy, are humans not developing alternatives that do not endanger many of the species on Earth?

[WhileTheChief..]

You can use google just the same as me to find your answers.

[Stairway 2 7]

When we first discovered oil, the main components of petrol were discarded as waste. Oil had so many more valuable uses.

Here's a good article on why we became so dependant on it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49499443

Good article 👍

[Moulin Yarns]

As a fuel in combustion processes that produce kinetic energy? For lubrication?

With specific regard to the generation of kinetic energy, are humans not developing alternatives that do not endanger many of the species on Earth?

The irony is, that 77% of all baryte mined worldwide is used to lubricate the oil and gas drilling. The mine in Perthshire supplies 120,000t to the oil and gas industry, and there is no substitute. Oil is not a lubricant in the oil and gas industry!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

We're obviously many decade's away from using petrol for vehicles, from planes, cars around the world, trucks, buses and heavy machinery. Changes and advancements will come and price will come down. But there is billions of vehicles to change. Its about pushing the change as fast as possible, investigating in research. Most plastics come from oil that will also take a long time too. But I'm sure we'll get there

[lapsedhibee]

We're obviously many decade's away from using petrol for vehicles, from planes, cars around the world, trucks, buses and heavy machinery. Changes and advancements will come and price will come down. But there is billions of vehicles to change. Its about pushing the change as fast as possible, investigating in research. Most plastics come from oil that will also take a long time too. But I'm sure we'll get there

Isn't it the burning of fossil fuels, rather than the taking them out of the ground, that's the problem? Is there a climate reason for not using oil to make plastics?

[Stairway 2 7]

Isn't it the burning of fossil fuels, rather than the taking them out of the ground, that's the problem? Is there a climate reason for not using oil to make plastics?

Was unsure had to Google but yeah as it's burnt.

"By 2050, plastic production and incineration could emit 2.8 gigatons of CO2 per year, releasing as many emissions as 615 five-hundred-megawatt coal plants"

[lapsedhibee]

Was unsure had to Google but yeah as it's burnt.

"By 2050, plastic production and incineration could emit 2.8 gigatons of CO2 per year, releasing as many emissions as 615 five-hundred-megawatt coal plants"

Don't have to burn the plastic though. Simply attach it to the concrete blocks of nucular waste that'll be getting dumped at the bottom of the sea anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

Was unsure had to Google but yeah as it's burnt.

"By 2050, plastic production and incineration could emit 2.8 gigatons of CO2 per year, releasing as many emissions as 615 five-hundred-megawatt coal plants"

3 links below the Wikipedia entry is this one, a bit of a long read but interesting suggestions about using co2 to make plastic!

https://www.bbcearth.com/news/turning-carbon-emissions-into-plastic

[Moulin Yarns]

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0085205

Now that sounds like a gamechanger!!

[WhileTheChief..]

Given that our towns and cities have so many flats, I wonder if it would be cost effective to fit them all with the newest forms of roof insulation, solar tiles, mini wind turbines or such like.

A typical stair has 8 households in a lot of cases, which brings the costs down, but would enough energy be saved to make it worthwhile?

[Oscar T Grouch]

Given that our towns and cities have so many flats, I wonder if it would be cost effective to fit them all with the newest forms of roof insulation, solar tiles, mini wind turbines or such like.

A typical stair has 8 households in a lot of cases, which brings the costs down, but would enough energy be saved to make it worthwhile?

What should be happening everywhere but only seems to happen in most Scandic countries is communal heating and heating using industrial sites. In Norway (I think it is Norway) if you are building public housing they must have a communal heating system. This means everyone who uses it pays towards it and when and if you need to change it, like now when gas prices are through the roof, it becomes much easier to do this across a country. With the tenements in Scotland it is almost as if we had preplanned for this, it would not be a hard conversion. Power plants and industry that also use water as a coolant can be converted. Instead of radiating the heat through cooling towers, radiate the heat through the local populations radiators. Communal heating has proved cheaper than all other forms of heating. Building codes and common sense in Scandic countries means every building put up is heavily insulated, have systems to ensure the minimal loss of heat, things as simple as small vestibules inside the outer doors of buildings to reduce heat loss are standard. The fact that almost every household in the UK has their own heating and hot water system is so inefficient and is something we can all push for on. While a wholistic approach to renewables is needed too, we need to start being much more efficient with our use of power and heat.

[hibsbollah]

What should be happening everywhere but only seems to happen in most Scandic countries is communal heating and heating using industrial sites. In Norway (I think it is Norway) if you are building public housing they must have a communal heating system. This means everyone who uses it pays towards it and when and if you need to change it, like now when gas prices are through the roof, it becomes much easier to do this across a country. With the tenements in Scotland it is almost as if we had preplanned for this, it would not be a hard conversion. Power plants and industry that also use water as a coolant can be converted. Instead of radiating the heat through cooling towers, radiate the heat through the local populations radiators. Communal heating has proved cheaper than all other forms of heating. Building codes and common sense in Scandic countries means every building put up is heavily insulated, have systems to ensure the minimal loss of heat, things as simple as small vestibules inside the outer doors of buildings to reduce heat loss are standard. The fact that almost every household in the UK has their own heating and hot water system is so inefficient and is something we can all push for on. While a wholistic approach to renewables is needed too, we need to start being much more efficient with our use of power and heat.


The only party proposing this nationally was Corbyns Labour in 2019. Starmers Labour initially said it would closely follow the manifesto pledges, remains to be seen if it’s still there.


https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/a-green-industrial-revolution/

[Oscar T Grouch]

The only party proposing this nationally was Corbyns Labour in 2019. Starmers Labour initially said it would closely follow the manifesto pledges, remains to be seen if it’s still there.


/

Yes unfortunately there is not a wholistic approach by many parties but Corbyn came closest to a good set of manifesto pledges by a major party in regards to the environment. The Greens do have all this in their party policies on Energy, Power and Building, these have been in place as they are now since 2018. If only there was PR in Westminster we could get more than just Caroline Lucas sitting there.

[hibsbollah]

Yes unfortunately there is not a wholistic approach by many parties but Corbyn came closest to a good set of manifesto pledges by a major party in regards to the environment. The Greens do have all this in their party policies on Energy, Power and Building, these have been in place as they are now since 2018. If only there was PR in Westminster we could get more than just Caroline Lucas sitting there.

It was Rebecca Long Bailey's portfolio, she's now a political outcast for supporting someones right to criticise Israel on twitter.

[Antifa Hibs]

Given that our towns and cities have so many flats, I wonder if it would be cost effective to fit them all with the newest forms of roof insulation, solar tiles, mini wind turbines or such like.

A typical stair has 8 households in a lot of cases, which brings the costs down, but would enough energy be saved to make it worthwhile?

That's kinda what Insulate Britain proposed (kinda). Insulate all council and housing association homes. Insulate all public buildings, then give proper grants for insulating owned homes. Reduces energy bills for the poorest in society while saving resources. But 99.9% of the population took the side of right wing commentators and politicians and took the piss out of them.

Good podcast here on UK energy > https://castbox.fm/episode/POWERED-BY-HOT-AIR--id3098516-id483820750?country=us

Regarding fossil fuels there's too much money in them for anyone to give them up. The largest banks of the US, UK and EU invested over £60 billion last year in them. It's almost as if capitalist societies only care about profits and nothing else. I for one am shocked!

[Stairway 2 7]

That's kinda what Insulate Britain proposed (kinda). Insulate all council and housing association homes. Insulate all public buildings, then give proper grants for insulating owned homes. Reduces energy bills for the poorest in society while saving resources. But 99.9% of the population took the side of right wing commentators and politicians and took the piss out of them.

Good podcast here on UK energy > https://castbox.fm/episode/POWERED-BY-HOT-AIR--id3098516-id483820750?country=us

Regarding fossil fuels there's too much money in them for anyone to give them up. The largest banks of the US, UK and EU invested over £60 billion last year in them. It's almost as if capitalist societies only care about profits and nothing else. I for one am shocked!

The time we're taking to switch to zero is too slow and too late. But it's student union fantasy stuff to say we won't need them for decades still. Everyone in the world including people, governments, councils and businesses ect can't afford to get electric cars straight away. Billions of homes and businesses need to switch heating and cooling to electric,

It's very good getting it done in Europe but we are tiny compared to the rest of the developing world. Developing technologies are great but decades away.

The way the corona vaccines went, I'm sure it will be every man for themselves on net zero too. Who is going to pay the massive bills to get Africa and Asia off fossil fuels? I believe in science though and think we will get there

[WhileTheChief..]

India’s population is set to grow by something like 500m by 2100.

The amount of additional energy required there is going to be mind blowing.

[grunt]

India’s population is set to grow by something like 500m by 2100.

The amount of additional energy required there is going to be mind blowing.
That seems a very strange thing to focus on in a discussion about global warming ...?

My understanding is that India's population growth rate is actually slowing, and the forecasts I could find had the 2100 estimate for India's population being some 200 million less than was estimated for 2050, and just about 100 million more than today.

https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/data/world-projections/projections-by-countries/

[WhileTheChief..]

Population is one of the most important factors when considering energy consumption and global warming.

Apologies, India's figures are shown below, you can look up any other country too.

Nigeria for example is to go from 206m to 790m by 2100.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/the-world-population-in-2100-by-country/#:~:text=India's%20population%20is%20set%20to%20ri se%20to%201.09%20billion%20people%20by%202100.&text=By%202100%2C%20the%20global%20population,to%2 0predictions%20by%20the%20UN.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/2100/

The point being, all these people need houses, transport, food, places to work etc. All of that uses energy. How is it not relevant to a discussion on climate change?

[grunt]

Apologies, India's figures are shown below, you can look up any other country too.
According to the link you provided, it says: "India emerges at the top of the leaderboard [highest population] despite an overall decline in numbers". The graph shows a decline in India's population from 1.38bn in 2017 to 1.09bn in 2100.

So where do you get your headline comment "India's population to increase by 500m", when the source you provided shows a decrease of almost 300m?

[WhileTheChief..]

According to the link you provided, it says: "India emerges at the top of the leaderboard [highest population] despite an overall decline in numbers". The graph shows a decline in India's population from 1.38bn in 2017 to 1.09bn in 2100.

So where do you get your headline comment "India's population to increase by 500m", when the source you provided shows a decrease of almost 300m?

You missed my apology where I corrected it to Nigeria?

Never mind.

I was just trying to make a point about population growth and climate change. The name of the actual country doesn't really matter does it?

[Stairway 2 7]

According to the link you provided, it says: "India emerges at the top of the leaderboard [highest population] despite an overall decline in numbers". The graph shows a decline in India's population from 1.38bn in 2017 to 1.09bn in 2100.

So where do you get your headline comment "India's population to increase by 500m", when the source you provided shows a decrease of almost 300m?

Numbers differ but un thinks population will go up a billion in the next 50 years. Also the developing countries are well developing and using lots more electricity and fuel. Africa will see massive growth and development.

[hibsbollah]

You missed my apology where I corrected it to Nigeria?

Never mind.

I was just trying to make a point about population growth and climate change. The name of the actual country doesn't really matter does it?

I actually agree with you that extreme population growth in relation to climate change is an under discussed problem, particularly re-access to water, food and other scarce resources. The problem is the internet discussions about this are generally infested with racist far right ‘Great replacement theory’ guys, because the largest population growth is happening in the south, where most people are underdeveloped and well, black, and it’s a useful peg to hang their racist coats on.

The problem is better understood as uneven population growth, where developed previously racially homogeneous societies like South Korea have declining populations as they have become richer, and now need im literally millions of immigrant labour not just to do their menial jobs, but all levels of employment. A lot of east Asia is now basically pensioners.

[Ozyhibby]

I actually agree with you that extreme population growth in relation to climate change is an under discussed problem, particularly re-access to water, food and other scarce resources. The problem is the internet discussions about this are generally infested with racist far right ‘Great replacement theory’ guys, because the largest population growth is happening in the south, where most people are underdeveloped and well, black, and it’s a useful peg to hang their coat on.

The problem is better understood as uneven population growth, where developed previously racially homogeneous societies like South Korea have declining populations as they have become richer, and now need im literally millions of immigrant labour not just to do their menial jobs, but all levels of employment. A lot of east Asia is now basically pensioners.

Population will only keep growing while food supply keeps growing. If that falls then population will fall as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Population will only keep growing while food supply keeps growing. If that falls then population will fall as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

…only if that supply falls uniformly across the globe, which it won’t. That’s why huge waves of migrations of hundreds of millions of people from the south to the north will be one of the consequences of global warming.

[grunt]

You missed my apology where I corrected it to Nigeria? Never mind.

I thought you were just apologising for not providing the source. I'd have thought that saying India's population was going to increase by 500m and blaming that on pressure regarding climate change, when in fact the source you provided shows that India's population was expected to do the opposite, and decrease, would have merited a clearer (and frankly, more abject) apology.

Never mind.


I was just trying to make a point about population growth and climate change. The name of the actual country doesn't really matter does it?Well yes it does, actually, when you use that country completely erroneously - a country that's forecast to reduce in population size - in your post to make a point about population growth.

[Ozyhibby]

…only if that supply falls uniformly across the globe, which it won’t. That’s why huge waves of migrations of hundreds of millions of people from the south to the north will be one of the consequences of global warming.

Absolutely. People won’t just starve quietly. There will be massive unrest, migration and wars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I thought you were just apologising for not providing the source. I'd have thought that saying India's population was going to increase by 500m and blaming that on pressure regarding climate change, when in fact the source you provided shows that India's population was expected to do the opposite, and decrease, would have merited a clearer (and frankly, more abject) apology.

Never mind.
Well yes it does, actually, when you use that country completely erroneously in your post to make a point.

World population will go up regardless in the next 50 years and energy use.

[grunt]

World population will go up regardless in the next 50 years and energy use.Indeed, although I found the links that WhileTheChief supplied interesting, as they show that although the global population will continue to increase, latest research thinks that the increase will be much smaller (2bn) than previously estimated.

Regardless, all this shows that we need to act now to address climate concerns. And that means no new North Sea oil fields thank you very much.

[WhileTheChief..]

A lot of east Asia is now basically pensioners.

Yup, with not enough youngsters coming through to fill the labour market.

There is going to be mass migration from Africa to Asia and Europe to plug the gap.

Besides the climate issue, it will have a devastating effect on China's economy but that's for another thread.

[Stairway 2 7]

I was in Thailand Vietnam and Cambodia just pre covid. It was like going back 20 years in thinking about climate. Single use plastic everywhere straw's bags ect, no recycling almost everywhere, just 1 bin. Loud old spluttering diesel engines everywhere also. Fumes were pretty bad in the massive cities. Its going to be some effort to get the developing nations to net zero

[WhileTheChief..]

Cars have around a 30 year lifespan on average i think.

I'm thinking that means around 50 years of petrol engines in cars at least.

I remember Top Gear talking about the number of old Mercs in Africa with 100s of 1000s of miles on the clock!

[Ozyhibby]

Cars have around a 30 year lifespan on average i think.

I'm thinking that means around 50 years of petrol engines in cars at least.

I remember Top Gear talking about the number of old Mercs in Africa with 100s of 1000s of miles on the clock!

Depends on how long the oil companies want to maintain all those service stations once electric cars reach critical mass? The attraction of keeping an old petrol motor on the road when you have to buy fuel from specialist suppliers and it’s in cans may wear a bit thin for some?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Depends on how long the oil companies want to maintain all those service stations once electric cars reach critical mass? The attraction of keeping an old petrol motor on the road when you have to buy fuel from specialist suppliers and it’s in cans may wear a bit thin for some?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2.1 million electric vehicles were bought in 2019 and apparently 7.2 million on the road. How many billions of vehicles world wide. I read that Saudi Arabia doesn't expect its crude oil demand to drop in the next 50 years. We get a bit of a sheltered view in the uk but we're insignificant over all

[WhileTheChief..]

Depends on how long the oil companies want to maintain all those service stations once electric cars reach critical mass? The attraction of keeping an old petrol motor on the road when you have to buy fuel from specialist suppliers and it’s in cans may wear a bit thin for some?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, i'd imagine that when the sale of electric vehicles overtakes petrol, things will pick up very quickly and many forecourts will disappear.

New cars in the west or far east today, are in Africa in 20 years time though.

So when we are fully electric, the developing world will still be 20 - 30 years behind.

[Oscar T Grouch]

World population will go up regardless in the next 50 years and energy use.

Nah the population will collapse once climate change turns half our farm land into un-arable dessert. That will happen well within 50 years because we are doing nothing to stop it. Even without climate change we are heading towards a disaster in terms of producing enough food for all humans and the animals they eat. Everyone going vegan would help but probably won't mitigate completely. I find it amazing people just think things will keep going on as before when the evidence is clear what is happening to the planet.

[Stairway 2 7]

Nah the population will collapse once climate change turns half our farm land into un-arable dessert. That will happen well within 50 years because we are doing nothing to stop it. Even without climate change we are heading towards a disaster in terms of producing enough food for all humans and the animals they eat. Everyone going vegan would help but probably won't mitigate completely. I find it amazing people just think things will keep going on as before when the evidence is clear what is happening to the planet.

To be fair it's the UN that estimates population will rise by over a billion I the next 50 years. I'm sure they will be in the ball park

[Antifa Hibs]

I was in Thailand Vietnam and Cambodia just pre covid. It was like going back 20 years in thinking about climate. Single use plastic everywhere straw's bags ect, no recycling almost everywhere, just 1 bin. Loud old spluttering diesel engines everywhere also. Fumes were pretty bad in the massive cities. Its going to be some effort to get the developing nations to net zero

And the developed world - don't let them fool you.

Easy to blame poorer nations about recycling but at my work the bins are split/segregated into landfill and recycleable but both bags end up in the same Biffa skip round the back that goes to landfill! Compostable coffee cups and plastic bags, next time you have a coffee bury the "green" cup in the ground and see how long it lasts under there for. The needless consumption because we can't or refuse to repair things.

The developed nations have have done a great job into convincing people that 'cos plastic straws are banned and we have electric cars for the middle classes we're the leaders on climate change. Infact I can picture it now, being ramped up in the future about how brilliant we have done and that its those bloody Chinese and Africans causing all the climate issues (as we lease our 3rd brand new car in the decade, taking 40 flights in the same period replacing the wardrobe every other month cos there is a new fashion trend insisting on eating fish even though the seas are *****d etc etc etc)

[Stairway 2 7]

And the developed world - don't let them fool you.

Easy to blame poorer nations about recycling but at my work the bins are split/segregated into landfill and recycleable but both bags end up in the same Biffa skip round the back that goes to landfill! Compostable coffee cups and plastic bags, next time you have a coffee bury the "green" cup in the ground and see how long it lasts under there for. The needless consumption because we can't or refuse to repair things.

The developed nations have have done a great job into convincing people that 'cos plastic straws are banned and we have electric cars for the middle classes we're the leaders on climate change. Infact I can picture it now, being ramped up in the future about how brilliant we have done and that its those bloody Chinese and Africans causing all the climate issues (as we lease our 3rd brand new car in the decade, taking 40 flights in the same period replacing the wardrobe every other month cos there is a new fashion trend insisting on eating fish even though the seas are *****d etc etc etc)

Agree no blame should go to the developing world. We are privileged that we can choose eco ways but generally won't. Its just it will take a lot of money to get say Africa to net zero. But like the vaccines it will be every man for themselves. Its in everyone's interests to help, but we won't

[lapsedhibee]

next time you have a coffee bury the "green" cup in the ground and see how long it lasts under there for

Not being lazy or anything, but when I do this experiment, how long should I leave it before looking the first time to see if it's started to decompose?

[Stairway 2 7]

Not being lazy or anything, but when I do this experiment, how long should I leave it before looking the first time to see if it's started to decompose?

Next time hibs win the Scottish, so just over a month

[Moulin Yarns]

Not being lazy or anything, but when I do this experiment, how long should I leave it before looking the first time to see if it's started to decompose?

I assume, because it's a compostable cup it should go in the compost heap. The heat generated will break it down faster than just burying it in the ground.

Mind you, a truly green coffee cup is reusable. 😉

[lapsedhibee]

I assume, because it's a compostable cup it should go in the compost heap. The heat generated will break it down faster than just burying it in the ground.

Mind you, a truly green coffee cup is reusable. ��

So for belt and braces I'll bury my regular coffee cup, that I use every day, in the compost heap until the next time Hibs win a cup. (Getting the hang of saving the planet now :agree:)

[Moulin Yarns]

So for belt and braces I'll bury my regular coffee cup, that I use every day, in the compost heap until the next time Hibs win a cup. (Getting the hang of saving the planet now :agree:)

Then you'd have to dig it up every time you want a coffee 🤔

[lapsedhibee]

Then you'd have to dig it up every time you want a coffee ��

No problem with that. I've already accepted that we all need to make sacrifices to get to Net Zero, or even Net Much Lower Than We're At Now.

[Antifa Hibs]

This might be of interest to some on here, a wee push to get their 75,000 volunteers > https://thebigplasticcount.com/sign-up :aok:

[Antifa Hibs]

Not being lazy or anything, but when I do this experiment, how long should I leave it before looking the first time to see if it's started to decompose?

I done mine during lockdown for about 9 months. I put a wee cube of potato, a shavings of paper, half a coffee cup and a few inches of a co-op carrier bag and just buried it under ground. Marked the area with a flag (pent pole and string). The shavings and potato had completely de-composed as expected, but the coffee cup and carrier bag hadn't changed a bit.

As another poster said they're likely for compost heaps, infact, they would've been designed and approved in perfect laboratory conditions.

Not an exact science but a bit of fun and quite interesting none-the-less.

[Antifa Hibs]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220425/Rich-countries-must-reduce-meat-consumption-by-at-least-7525-study-suggests.aspx

https://www.eating2extinction.com/the-movie/

[hibsbollah]

45 degrees at 7pm in Indian cities tonight in April. Absolutely unprecedented.

https://earthsky.org/earth/heatwave-in-india-breaks-records/

[Oscar T Grouch]

45 degrees at 7pm in Indian cities tonight in April. Absolutely unprecedented.

https://earthsky.org/earth/heatwave-in-india-breaks-records/

People in general think this climate change won't effect them, or it will take so much time it will be hard to notice. There is proof in the ice core records that climate change has happened quickly in the past. The worrying thing is there is nothing in the ice cores showing such dramatic changes happening in the past that are happening now. As you said it's unprecedented and not just in recent history, we have ice core records going back 800000 years that do not show these sorts of changes in climate. This year for the first time ever temperature increases were recorded at both the North and South poles.
Once we step off the cliff everything goes, our ability to grow enough food for everyone, the ability to stay in certain regions of the world, currently where over a billion people live, we have the knowledge but we do not have the will to actually do anything about it. I wonder if we start telling people there is a fair to good chance your children will be killed by the effects of climate change they might stop and listen and actually do something. I think the main problem is the rich and powerful think their money and power will protect them from the worst of it, it won't.:brickwall

[Antifa Hibs]

People in general think this climate change won't effect them, or it will take so much time it will be hard to notice. There is proof in the ice core records that climate change has happened quickly in the past. The worrying thing is there is nothing in the ice cores showing such dramatic changes happening in the past that are happening now. As you said it's unprecedented and not just in recent history, we have ice core records going back 800000 years that do not show these sorts of changes in climate. This year for the first time ever temperature increases were recorded at both the North and South poles.
Once we step off the cliff everything goes, our ability to grow enough food for everyone, the ability to stay in certain regions of the world, currently where over a billion people live, we have the knowledge but we do not have the will to actually do anything about it. I wonder if we start telling people there is a fair to good chance your children will be killed by the effects of climate change they might stop and listen and actually do something. I think the main problem is the rich and powerful think their money and power will protect them from the worst of it, it won't.:brickwall

It's that - plus people don't think there actions are causing it but someone elses. We watched Sea Spiracy 2 weeks ago, missus struggled to watch bits of it. Last week she came in with fish for her tea, when asked about her nearly crying at trapped turtles, baby whales and dolphins in fishing nets her response was "its only 1 fillet of swordfish what difference is that going to make" :doh:

Not affecting them and believing they're not contributing to the problem is definitely exacerbating things.

[lapsedhibee]

It's that - plus people don't think there actions are causing it but someone elses. We watched Sea Spiracy 2 weeks ago, missus struggled to watch bits of it. Last week she came in with fish for her tea, when asked about her nearly crying at trapped turtles, baby whales and dolphins in fishing nets her response was "its only 1 fillet of swordfish what difference is that going to make" :doh:

Not affecting them and believing they're not contributing to the problem is definitely exacerbating things.

I'm with Mrs Antifa on that one. There isn't time for everyone to make their individual minds up about whether or not to eat swordfish. Governments need to introduce and enforce laws, now.

Don't care so much about the trapped turtles, so long as the giant one that's holding up the elephants that're holding up the world is fine.

[Antifa Hibs]

I'm with Mrs Antifa on that one. There isn't time for everyone to make their individual minds up about whether or not to eat swordfish. Governments need to introduce and enforce laws, now.

Don't care so much about the trapped turtles, so long as the giant one that's holding up the elephants that're holding up the world is fine.

Disagree completely. If you know the facts, and by now most people do, then it absolutely is up to individuals to make choices. It's a "COP" out to just carry on as if nothing is happening waiting for government to make the correct choices - and if history has shown us anything we shouldn't assume that government is going to act in the best interests of its people and our planet.

I've already said on this thread we need governments all over the world to act. But ultimately the state the planet is in just now, a lot of that is down to how you me and a few billion others live their life's.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm with Mrs Antifa on that one. There isn't time for everyone to make their individual minds up about whether or not to eat swordfish. Governments need to introduce and enforce laws, now.

Don't care so much about the trapped turtles, so long as the giant one that's holding up the elephants that're holding up the world is fine.

Agreed. It needs to be government policy. In practice the masses don't just change, they all say myself on my own won't change anything or he's doing it so I will. Cop out for governments if they say people can choose to do the right thing

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm with Mrs Antifa on that one. There isn't time for everyone to make their individual minds up about whether or not to eat swordfish. Governments need to introduce and enforce laws, now.

Don't care so much about the trapped turtles, so long as the giant one that's holding up the elephants that're holding up the world is fine.

😁👍

[hibsbollah]

Land surface temperatures of 65 degrees C in several Indian cities, that means melting roads and malfunctioning tech. Images from Copernicus satellite.

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2022/04/Heatwave_across_India

[wookie70]

It's that - plus people don't think there actions are causing it but someone elses. We watched Sea Spiracy 2 weeks ago, missus struggled to watch bits of it. Last week she came in with fish for her tea, when asked about her nearly crying at trapped turtles, baby whales and dolphins in fishing nets her response was "its only 1 fillet of swordfish what difference is that going to make" :doh:

Not affecting them and believing they're not contributing to the problem is definitely exacerbating things.

I just watched Seaspiracy. What a world we live in. I had no idea about the shear numbers of animals being destroyed and the issue with lost nets etc. I did however realise that the vast majority of charities in that arena were about generating money for the charities. That is pretty much the case for all charities imo and the sooner they are stopped from being the moral compass the better.

[hibsbollah]

I just watched Seaspiracy. What a world we live in. I had no idea about the shear numbers of animals being destroyed and the issue with lost nets etc. I did however realise that the vast majority of charities in that arena were about generating money for the charities. That is pretty much the case for all charities imo and the sooner they are stopped from being the moral compass the better.

I also was really moved by it. Some of the stats were debunked afterwards, particularly the claim about the oceans being emptied in 10 years or whatever at current pace. That wasn’t based on good science so that claim and a few others need to be treated with caution. Didn’t detract from the main message that moving from meat to fish isn’t any more sustainable.

[hibsbollah]

These 'carbon bomb' projects would make a <1.5 degree+ increase impossible, you can forgot about the COP targets if this is accurate, most of these are in the west or the middle east, not China, and are gas, not coal.

Revealed: the ‘carbon bombs’ set to trigger catastrophic climate breakdown | Fossil fuels | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2022/may/11/fossil-fuel-carbon-bombs-climate-breakdown-oil-gas)

[Stairway 2 7]

Madness. To make sure Germany can end its 3 nuclear power plants, they will replace the 15% of the nations energy from them with coal! Greenpeace say they will protest

@mark_lynas
·
It's over for nuclear in Germany. The SDP-Green coalition has won a vote in the Bundestag backing more coal burning so that the three remaining nuclear plants can be switched off as planned this year. Climate targets may have to be abandoned as a result.

https://faz.net/aktuell/wirtsc

Finally, there's an environmental group dedicated to stopping this madness. If this makes you as angry as it does me, please join
@letsreplanet
http://replanet.ngo We've just won on the EU taxonomy. Most Germans support keeping nuclear switched on - the tide is turning

Oh, and nuclear in the UK is now planned to be carbon NEGATIVE, with the new Sizewell C plant potentially deploying air capture technology to use waste heat to sequester 1.5 million tonnes of CO2 a year. Eat your heart out, coal-addicted Germany!
https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/%E2%8

[grunt]

Have any of the contenders for Tory leader / PM even mentioned green or climate change issues during their pitches today?
It's almost as though COP26 never happened.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Have any of the contenders for Tory leader / PM even mentioned green or climate change issues during their pitches today?
It's almost as though COP26 never happened.


tbf Big Dog put an appearance in but unfortunately he just thought it was just one big p*ss up for dignitaries to get noticed on the world stage, but it was also a great chance to show as per his lack of awareness and moral compass


https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/6180fe4c210000c1686fe496.jpg?ops=scalefit_720_noup scale

[weecounty hibby]

Sadly it doesn't appeal to their supporters or the peopke/corporations thatbgive them big money donations so climate change won't be mentioned at all. But things like withdrawing from ECHR are seen as vote winners.

[Kato]

tbf Big Dog put an appearance in but unfortunately he just thought it was just one big p*ss up for dignitaries to get noticed on the world stage, but it was also a great chance to show as per his lack of awareness and moral compass


https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/6180fe4c210000c1686fe496.jpg?ops=scalefit_720_noup scaleTalking about it is fine, actually doing anything about it is "woke".

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/18/britain-hothouse-extreme-weather

A frightening prospect.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/18/britain-hothouse-extreme-weather

A frightening prospect.

He totally under estimates the effect the climate wars will have upon us.


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[hibsbollah]

He totally under estimates the effect the climate wars will have upon us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I suppose he’s a climate scientist not a geo politician so his focus is on the actual direct environmental implications. But yes, movement of peoples north and wars for access to water will happen.

[Scorrie]

I suppose he’s a climate scientist not a geo politician so his focus is on the actual direct environmental implications. But yes, movement of peoples north and wars for access to water will happen.

And this is likely to make Scotland hugely important to the south of England given projected water shortages there in coming years

[hibsbollah]

And this is likely to make Scotland hugely important to the south of England given projected water shortages there in coming years

Have you got a link? I hadn’t heard about that.

[hibsbollah]

The Met Offices mocked up 2050 forecast from a few years ago. Not far off.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/services/insights/future-weather-forecast-for-2050

[Scorrie]

Have you got a link? I hadn’t heard about that.

No direct link I’m afraid but I recall seeing a couple of articles a few years ago talking about water shortages in the south east of England due to climate change and over development and the need for some sort of “national grid” for water with Scotland making a significant contribution. When I worked in town planning until a few years ago, the issue of future water shortages was already being highlighted and being one of the reasons why development should be more evenly spread around the country; what we now call levelling up I suppose

[Scorrie]

[QUOTE=hibsbollah;7027901]Have you got a link? I hadn’t heard about that.

[/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18890231.pipe-dream-ministers-block-boris-johnson-inspired-bid-export-scots-water-england/

Here was an article in the Herald a couple of years ago

[hibsbollah]

[QUOTE=hibsbollah;7027901]Have you got a link? I hadn’t heard about that.

[/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18890231.pipe-dream-ministers-block-boris-johnson-inspired-bid-export-scots-water-england/

Here was an article in the Herald a couple of years ago

Interesting, thanks.

[Antifa Hibs]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/07/plant-based-meat-by-far-the-best-climate-investment-report-finds

Incase anyone needs a little extra persuasion ;)

99.9% most likely the result of this heatwave but this is the first time i've properly felt we are now totally ****ed.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/07/plant-based-meat-by-far-the-best-climate-investment-report-finds



:wink::thumbsup:


The only plant based meat is a beafstake tomato 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

Dutch farmers at war with the government over fertiliser use

https://unherd.com/2022/07/why-dutch-farmers-are-revolting/

[Paul1642]

Not to sound like I’m saying “well, at least I’m okay”, but I really am grateful to live in Scotland. If things get as bad as predicted we would hopefully be one of the least affected countries.

The heatwave we just had was a slight inconvenience in Scotland.

[Kato]

Not to sound like I’m saying “well, at least I’m okay”, but I really am grateful to live in Scotland. If things get as bad as predicted we would hopefully be one of the least affected countries.

The heatwave we just had was a slight inconvenience in Scotland.The floods though.

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[Paul1642]

Dutch farmers at war with the government over fertiliser use

https://unherd.com/2022/07/why-dutch-farmers-are-revolting/

There are a lot of life’s luxury’s that we’re going to need to reduce / cut if we are going to make a difference. I’m not sure food production is where we should be starting.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.ft.com/content/e7b5bf76-37ec-4be5-aa85-db03891c1066?shareType=nongift

Will parts of Spain become unlivable

[Keith_M]

https://www.ft.com/content/e7b5bf76-37ec-4be5-aa85-db03891c1066?shareType=nongift

Will parts of Spain become unlivable


There's actually a fairly large (semi) desert area in central Spain, and I'd imagine it's going to spread over a much wider area.

If you've ever visited Madrid in the summer, you'd get some idea why :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

The drought continues, dryest July on record for lots of places continues into August with no rain in sight. forecast for next weekend is 34 or 35 degrees in the SE, we’re just back from the south of France and the whole region is like a tinderbox, no rain for months, lakes almost disappearing, more forest fires all across Southern Europe seem inevitable. Situation sounds dire in Ethiopia/Sudan, underreported crop failures will mean more movement of people north.

It will be lovely weather up here all next week (especially if we win today, a week of sunshine on Leith etc), but it feels less joyful than normal, some of the realities are starting to kick in about the climate catastrophe. One of my jobs next week will be to install a water butt for our downpipe. I’ve been reusing grey water from showers and washing up to water plants in pots outside, plants are surprisingly tolerant of detergents etc and grey water absolutely fine.

[Paul1642]

The drought continues, dryest July on record for lots of places continues into August with no rain in sight. forecast for next weekend is 34 or 35 degrees in the SE, we’re just back from the south of France and the whole region is like a tinderbox, no rain for months, lakes almost disappearing, more forest fires all across Southern Europe seem inevitable. Situation sounds dire in Ethiopia/Sudan, underreported crop failures will mean more movement of people north.

It will be lovely weather up here all next week (especially if we win today, a week of sunshine on Leith etc), but it feels less joyful than normal, some of the realities are starting to kick in about the climate catastrophe. One of my jobs next week will be to install a water butt for our downpipe. I’ve been reusing grey water from showers and washing up to water plants in pots outside, plants are surprisingly tolerant of detergents etc and grey water absolutely fine.

The part about feeing less joyful than usual hits home. For my whole life a Scottish heatwave has felt like a great novelty and something to embrace.

Whilst I’m not being miserable and still enjoying it, this year strangely feels like a small taste of times to come rather than a rarely, and the problems that will come with that will not be nice.

[Stairway 2 7]

Scotlands biggest untapped oil field about to be mined

https://news.stv.tv/north/rosebank-north-sea-oil-and-gas-field-could-be-worth-over-24bn-to-economy-says-equinor

[Moulin Yarns]

Scotlands biggest untapped oil field about to be mined

https://news.stv.tv/north/rosebank-north-sea-oil-and-gas-field-could-be-worth-over-24bn-to-economy-says-equinor

https://www.worldoil.com/news/2022/8/5/equinor-rosebank-oil-and-gas-project-can-unlock-4-1-billion-uk-investment/


So, which is it, £24bn or 'only' £4bn

Oh aye, and the profit goes to the Norwegian state owned Equinor ASA not Scotland!! Or even the UK, but Norway, where electricity is something like a quarter of what us mugs are paying!!!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.worldoil.com/news/2022/8/5/equinor-rosebank-oil-and-gas-project-can-unlock-4-1-billion-uk-investment/


So, which is it, £24bn or 'only' £4bn

Oh aye, and the profit goes to the Norwegian state owned Equinor ASA not Scotland!! Or even the UK, but Norway, where electricity is something like a quarter of what us mugs are paying!!!!!

It's not just the oil we sold off its renewables and we're still doing it, with giving away the rights to huge amounts of our sea bed this year.

Norways electricity is much cheaper than Scotlands yet Scotland electricity is mostly from our renewables.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's not just the oil we sold off its renewables and we're still doing it, with giving away the rights to huge amounts of our sea bed this year.

Norways electricity is much cheaper than Scotlands yet Scotland electricity is mostly from our renewables.

I'm on the same page as you. My point was the difference between 24 and 4 in the articles we posted.




And Scotland has not given away the rights to huge amounts of the seabed, the Scottish government sold the lease to chunks of the seabed to offshore wind generation. We will get some benefits from this.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm on the same page as you. My point was the difference between 24 and 4 in the articles we posted.

Probably downplayed it to not show it as an independence bonus before. They get tongue tied trying to paint the oil as a burden, that's looking silly in a energy crisis. The oil has made many people rich unfortunately not Scots its a tragedy

As for the sea bed it's a tiny amount compared to what shell and BP will make from it, should have been a private company

[hibsbollah]

In one of the most developed countries in the world, major floods in city of over 12 million people.

Record rainfall kills at least 8 in Seoul as water floods buildings, submerges cars (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/record-rainfall-kills-at-least-eight-in-seoul-as-water-floods-buildings-submerges-cars/ar-AA10sHlA)

[Antifa Hibs]

It's not just the oil we sold off its renewables and we're still doing it, with giving away the rights to huge amounts of our sea bed this year.

Norways electricity is much cheaper than Scotlands yet Scotland electricity is mostly from our renewables.

Happy to be corrected but I think that is wrong. We can generate around 98% of our energy needs from renewables but because there is little to no storage of that electricity that has been generated we still rely and gas mostly for our energy needs (around 45-50%), then nuclear accounts for around 20%, biomass (burning stuff) is around 7-10%, with the remainder coming from renewables.

[Ozyhibby]

Happy to be corrected but I think that is wrong. We can generate around 98% of our energy needs from renewables but because there is little to no storage of that electricity that has been generated we still rely and gas mostly for our energy needs (around 45-50%), then nuclear accounts for around 20%, biomass (burning stuff) is around 7-10%, with the remainder coming from renewables.

We produce significantly more than we need and export it to England. We have a good bit to go to get to fully renewable but the renewables we have are almost equivalent to our needs just now. It’s just that we export a fair bit of it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Happy to be corrected but I think that is wrong. We can generate around 98% of our energy needs from renewables but because there is little to no storage of that electricity that has been generated we still rely and gas mostly for our energy needs (around 45-50%), then nuclear accounts for around 20%, biomass (burning stuff) is around 7-10%, with the remainder coming from renewables.

Think about 60% of our energy use is renewable, 30% nuclear 20% gas. But I was talking about electricity only which the majority will be renewable, certainly in the summer. It really should have been nationalised instead of sold of like our oil. There was a potential gold mine in Scotlands renewables and we should be getting all the profits

[Moulin Yarns]

We produce significantly more than we need and export it to England. We have a good bit to go to get to fully renewable but the renewables we have are almost equivalent to our needs just now. It’s just that we export a fair bit of it.


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This crosses over with the energy crisis thread. I'm with Bulb and my bills tell me that all of my electricity is generated from renewables, so can anyone explain why my electricity bill is going up because of wholesale oil and gas prices?

[Kato]

This crosses over with the energy crisis thread. I'm with Bulb and my bills tell me that all of my electricity is generated from renewables, so can anyone explain why my electricity bill is going up because of wholesale oil and gas prices?Because all the energy goes into the hands of a privately owned company whether its generated by wind, oil, sun or gas.

The privately owned companies want to maximise their return to their shareholders so charge as much as they are able.

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[nonshinyfinish]

This crosses over with the energy crisis thread. I'm with Bulb and my bills tell me that all of my electricity is generated from renewables, so can anyone explain why my electricity bill is going up because of wholesale oil and gas prices?

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/why-does-the-price-of-gas-drive-electricity-prices-including-renewables/

As that article says, you'd need to restructure the energy market to change it, e.g. by separating renewables out into their own market.

[lapsedhibee]

Think about 60% of our energy use is renewable, 30% nuclear 20% gas.

:hmmm:

[Stairway 2 7]

:hmmm:

And 70% from jambo hot air on top. Fat fingers 20% nuclear too

[Antifa Hibs]

Think about 60% of our energy use is renewable, 30% nuclear 20% gas. But I was talking about electricity only which the majority will be renewable, certainly in the summer. It really should have been nationalised instead of sold of like our oil. There was a potential gold mine in Scotlands renewables and we should be getting all the profits

Again happy to be corrected but i'm 99% sure thats electricity usage, with natural gas mostly used for heating on top of that. We still rely on gas powered electricity plants for some of our consumption.

Am i also correct in thinking we now only have one nuclear power plant after Hunterson B was wound down for decommission earlier this year? Think Torness only has 5 years left of running time too. Interesting to see what happens, we can obviously create enough renewable energy for our needs but don't think we're any closer to solving the storing it problem.

[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840

French climate protesters fill golf holes with cement in protest at golf courses being exempt from a water ban.

Seems fair to me considering that an average golf course can require anything from 40,000 to a staggering 300,000 lites of water each day!

Even if Scottish golf courses are at the lower end of the scale, work out the annual consumption and multiply that number by the 587 golf courses in Scotland, we must be using a frightening amount of water of Golf courses alone. I would imagine that in places like Aberlady and Gullane the local golf courses use almost as much water as the town’s residents do.

It must be frustrating as hell to be running low on drinking water and seeing your own garden die, and local farms go dry, only to see the sprinklers in full flow at the local golf course.

It won’t be a popular opinion given the sports popularity, especially among the wealthy and influential but maybe golf is a sport that is going to need to be confined to the past as water shortages become more and more common.

I imagine Americans might need to start reconsidering there garden swimming pools soon too.

No doubt we will have a nice wet winter and won’t have a summer as hot and dry as this one for a few years and these issues will be forgotten about until next time with no real action taken but there really can be no doubt that climate change is really starting to kick in close to home and and we need to make changes to our lives. Most of us have always taken unlimited clean water for granted and that’s not going to last. Those of us in Scotland are lucky to live where we do and we will be among the least affected but it doesn’t mean we won’t have issues.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840

French climate protesters fill golf holes with cement in protest at golf courses being exempt from a water ban.

Seems fair to me considering that an average golf course can require anything from 40,000 to a staggering 300,000 lites of water each day!

Even if Scottish golf courses are at the lower end of the scale, work out the annual consumption and multiply that number by the 587 golf courses in Scotland, we must be using a frightening amount of water of Golf courses alone. I would imagine that in places like Aberlady and Gullane the local golf courses use almost as much water as the town’s residents do.

It must be frustrating as hell to be running low on drinking water and seeing your own garden die, and local farms go dry, only to see the sprinklers in full flow at the local golf course.

It won’t be a popular opinion given the sports popularity, especially among the wealthy and influential but maybe golf is a sport that is going to need to be confined to the past as water shortages become more and more common.

I imagine Americans might need to start reconsidering there garden swimming pools soon too.

No doubt we will have a nice wet winter and won’t have a summer as hot and dry as this one for a few years and these issues will be forgotten about until next time with no real action taken but there really can be no doubt that climate change is really starting to kick in close to home and and we need to make changes to our lives. Most of us have always taken unlimited clean water for granted and that’s not going to last. Those of us in Scotland are lucky to live where we do and we will be among the least affected but it doesn’t mean we won’t have issues.

The golf lobby is like the dog lobby in this country. People love their golf as they live their dogs and would go full Al Qaeda if you proposed sensible legislation that would slightly curb their ability to do whatever they pleased. They’d mobilise voters in their powerful older demographic who actually bother to turn out and vote.

I’ve just been round to my 76 year old mothers for breakfast, she informed me that ‘everyone’s persuading themselves that the planet is on its last legs, and I really don’t think it is’. Not sure where the confidence for this prediction comes from but there you go.

[Paul1642]

The golf lobby is like the dog lobby in this country. People love their golf as they live their dogs and would go full Al Qaeda if you proposed sensible legislation that would slightly curb their ability to do whatever they pleased. They’d mobilise voters in their powerful older demographic who actually bother to turn out and vote.

I’ve just been round to my 76 year old mothers for breakfast, she informed me that ‘everyone’s persuading themselves that the planet is on its last legs, and I really don’t think it is’. Not sure where the confidence for this prediction comes from but there you go.

Not to insult the elderly but it’s probably easier to be confident when your not going to be around in 50 years time to see the consequences.

The planet is not on its last legs but it’s on a steep slope towards life as we know it being irreversibly changed for a long time to come.

[hibsbollah]

Not to insult the elderly but it’s probably easier to be confident when your not going to be around in 50 years time to see the consequences.

The planet is not on its last legs but it’s on a steep slope towards life as we know it being irreversibly changed for a long time to come.

You can insult my mother as much as you like, I do :greengrin
She (and others with a similar mentality, regardless of age) also have grandchildren whos future you might think would be on their minds also.

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840

French climate protesters fill golf holes with cement in protest at golf courses being exempt from a water ban.

Seems fair to me considering that an average golf course can require anything from 40,000 to a staggering 300,000 lites of water each day!

Even if Scottish golf courses are at the lower end of the scale, work out the annual consumption and multiply that number by the 587 golf courses in Scotland, we must be using a frightening amount of water of Golf courses alone. I would imagine that in places like Aberlady and Gullane the local golf courses use almost as much water as the town’s residents do.

It must be frustrating as hell to be running low on drinking water and seeing your own garden die, and local farms go dry, only to see the sprinklers in full flow at the local golf course.

It won’t be a popular opinion given the sports popularity, especially among the wealthy and influential but maybe golf is a sport that is going to need to be confined to the past as water shortages become more and more common.

I imagine Americans might need to start reconsidering there garden swimming pools soon too.

No doubt we will have a nice wet winter and won’t have a summer as hot and dry as this one for a few years and these issues will be forgotten about until next time with no real action taken but there really can be no doubt that climate change is really starting to kick in close to home and and we need to make changes to our lives. Most of us have always taken unlimited clean water for granted and that’s not going to last. Those of us in Scotland are lucky to live where we do and we will be among the least affected but it doesn’t mean we won’t have issues.

I don't think the overall amount of water on the planet is reducing, is it? Wouldn't the wealthy golf clubs just be able to introduce storage facilities for water so that they could retain it from the wet/flood times and use it in the dry/drought times? Maybe very large underground facilities, which they could call 'bunkers'.

[Paul1642]

I don't think the overall amount of water on the planet is reducing, is it? Wouldn't the wealthy golf clubs just be able to introduce storage facilities for water so that they could retain it from the wet/flood times and use it in the dry/drought times? Maybe very large underground facilities, which they could call 'bunkers'.

Sounds reasonable enough although to store enough water for a couple of weeks they would presumably need over a million litres of storage. That sounds pretty expensive and difficult to construct / maintain underground. It would probably be easier to have it above ground more like a mini reservoir.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sounds reasonable enough although to store enough water for a couple of weeks they would presumably need over a million litres of storage. That sounds pretty expensive and difficult to construct / maintain underground. It would probably be easier to have it above ground more like a mini reservoir.

Don't you mean 'water hazard'? :greengrin

[Antifa Hibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840

French climate protesters fill golf holes with cement in protest at golf courses being exempt from a water ban.

Seems fair to me considering that an average golf course can require anything from 40,000 to a staggering 300,000 lites of water each day!

Even if Scottish golf courses are at the lower end of the scale, work out the annual consumption and multiply that number by the 587 golf courses in Scotland, we must be using a frightening amount of water of Golf courses alone. I would imagine that in places like Aberlady and Gullane the local golf courses use almost as much water as the town’s residents do.

It must be frustrating as hell to be running low on drinking water and seeing your own garden die, and local farms go dry, only to see the sprinklers in full flow at the local golf course.

It won’t be a popular opinion given the sports popularity, especially among the wealthy and influential but maybe golf is a sport that is going to need to be confined to the past as water shortages become more and more common.

I imagine Americans might need to start reconsidering there garden swimming pools soon too.

No doubt we will have a nice wet winter and won’t have a summer as hot and dry as this one for a few years and these issues will be forgotten about until next time with no real action taken but there really can be no doubt that climate change is really starting to kick in close to home and and we need to make changes to our lives. Most of us have always taken unlimited clean water for granted and that’s not going to last. Those of us in Scotland are lucky to live where we do and we will be among the least affected but it doesn’t mean we won’t have issues.

Not just golf but its incredible when you learn about water usage for all industries. Can take anything from 8000-10000 litres of water to grow enough cotton for one pair of jeans (plus god knows how much chemical sprays on top of that). You've then got Primark, Shein and Boohoo and the likes pretty much encouraging you to buy a pair of jeans for your holiday, wear them a few times and just leave them across there.

[hibsbollah]

Not just golf but its incredible when you learn about water usage for all industries. Can take anything from 8000-10000 litres of water to grow enough cotton for one pair of jeans (plus god knows how much chemical sprays on top of that). You've then got Primark, Shein and Boohoo and the likes pretty much encouraging you to buy a pair of jeans for your holiday, wear them a few times and just leave them across there.

There’s been a lot of talk recently about how prescient France was to invest in nuclear power, when the rest of Europe was building its dependence on natural gas. The big problem now is that nuclear reactors require incredible amounts of water to cool the rods, from the article I was reading recently. And because French rivers are now drying up, there isn’t enough water to cool the reactors, hence power cuts are happening in French regions at quiet use times to conserve the supply.

They are praying for rain ‘dans Le Sud’ just now. Two months without rain and some of the worst fires in history. And good luck getting a decent 2022 vintage that doesn’t taste like crap.

[Paul1642]

There’s been a lot of talk recently about how prescient France was to invest in nuclear power, when the rest of Europe was building its dependence on natural gas. The big problem now is that nuclear reactors require incredible amounts of water to cool the rods, from the article I was reading recently. And because French rivers are now drying up, there isn’t enough water to cool the reactors, hence power cuts are happening in French regions at quiet use times to conserve the supply.

They are praying for rain ‘dans Le Sud’ just now. Two months without rain and some of the worst fires in history. And good luck getting a decent 2022 vintage that doesn’t taste like crap.

The knock on effects of climate change seem to be endless and much more far reaching than the commonly talked about warmer weather / rising sea levels.

[The_Exile]

The knock on effects of climate change seem to be endless and much more far reaching than the commonly talked about warmer weather / rising sea levels.

Absolutely, essential parts of our infrastructure just isn’t planned or built to cope with what’s happening and what’s still to come. There is absolutely no appetite from governments far and wide to fix things as it won’t win them votes to spend money on it. IMHO, we are doomed as a species as we aren’t collectively bright enough to adapt and overcome.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thread of a compilation of major studies showing although this could be one of the worst European droughts in centuries. There is no trend and climate change is actually making less drought conditions in northern Europe.

Looks like this will be the 3rd worst UK drought of the century (1976 alot worse and 1921 unbelievably dry).

Climate change still causing a catastrophe though

https://mobile.twitter.com/RogerPielkeJr/status/1559179341937856512

[hibsbollah]

In more stats, Over 1 million acres of woodland in Europe destroyed in wildfires this year, thats 56% higher than any other previous year.

EFFIS - Statistics Portal (europa.eu) (https://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/apps/effis.statistics/seasonaltrend?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=94014bfbbd-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_08_15_03_07&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-94014bfbbd-189498069)

Also quite a cool graphic where you can move a concentric circle representing the area destroyed by wildfires in France over where you live to see the scale of whats happened. It represents a fair chunk of Midlothian, or most of London say Ealing in the West to Ilford or Romford in the East.

Une carte pour visualiser la taille des feux de forêt par rapport à votre ville (lemonde.fr) (https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2022/08/15/une-carte-pour-visualiser-la-taille-des-feux-de-foret-par-rapport-a-votre-ville_6138109_4355770.html)

[Stairway 2 7]

In more stats, Over 1 million acres of woodland in Europe destroyed in wildfires this year, thats 56% higher than any other previous year.

EFFIS - Statistics Portal (europa.eu) (https://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/apps/effis.statistics/seasonaltrend?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=94014bfbbd-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_08_15_03_07&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-94014bfbbd-189498069)

Also quite a cool graphic where you can move a concentric circle representing the area destroyed by wildfires in France over where you live to see the scale of whats happened. It represents a fair chunk of Midlothian, or most of London say Ealing in the West to Ilford or Romford in the East.

Une carte pour visualiser la taille des feux de forêt par rapport à votre ville (lemonde.fr) (https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2022/08/15/une-carte-pour-visualiser-la-taille-des-feux-de-foret-par-rapport-a-votre-ville_6138109_4355770.html)

Think that goes to 2006? And it does say this will be one of the worst droughts in centuries, but it isn't so far a part of a trend. In fact Northern Europe will probably see less chance of drought going forward. Although that will cause flooding and erosion and other problems.

[hibsbollah]

Think that goes to 2006? And it does say this will be one of the worst droughts in centuries, but it isn't so far a part of a trend. In fact Northern Europe will probably see less chance of drought going forward. Although that will cause flooding and erosion and other problems.

From 2006.
It depends what you mean by 'Northern Europe'. The Nordics has seen some of the highest increases in temperature in the last 10 years, glaciers on the melt, wine being grown in Sweden. If you mean the British Isles, climate change is predicted to result in more extreme weather of all kinds, including storms and flooding. But that's also complicated by the presence of the gulf stream and how reduced salination there will impact on our temperatures. The situation in Southern Europe is more severe and they are impacted by drought more severely because of the alpine glacier disappearing (as welll as their obvious proximity to the African continent). Theres lots of subtleties but the one constant is severity and unpredictability.

[Stairway 2 7]

From 2006.
It depends what you mean by 'Northern Europe'. The Nordics has seen some of the highest increases in temperature in the last 10 years, glaciers on the melt, wine being grown in Sweden. If you mean the British Isles, climate change is predicted to result in more extreme weather of all kinds, including storms and flooding. But that's also complicated by the presence of the gulf stream and how reduced salination there will impact on our temperatures. The situation in Southern Europe is more severe and they are impacted by drought more severely because of the alpine glacier disappearing (as welll as their obvious proximity to the African continent). Theres lots of subtleties but the one constant is severity and unpredictability.

Read the thread again it's all about predictability. It's one metric drought. It's isn't about other forms of catastrophes that climate change will undoubtedly cause.

[Stairway 2 7]

Great thread on the mass extinction that is currently happening

https://mobile.twitter.com/bidetmarxman/status/1559191234899415040

@bidetmarxman
There is a curious phenomenon that results from the relatively brief window of time a single human lifetime provides: we perceive the current state of the natural world as “normal”.

This is known as the Shifting Baseline Syndrome

[hibsbollah]

Read the thread again it's all about predictability. It's one metric drought. It's isn't about other forms of catastrophes that climate change will undoubtedly cause.

:dunno: I didn’t say it was, I was making the point that climate change will affect different geographies in different ways. Hence unpredictability.

I don’t need to read the link again, I wouldn’t have posted it if I hadn’t read it, understood it, and thought the contents were interesting enough to share.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/artificially-inducing-phytoplankton-blooms-could-lower-carbon-dioxide-levels-and-fight-climate-change?ref=scroll

The Mad Plan to Save Earth by Flooding It With Phytoplankton

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/aug/18/century-climate-crisis-migration-why-we-need-plan-great-upheaval

An excellent, long read. Definitely thinking about buying this guys book when it’s out.

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/aug/18/century-climate-crisis-migration-why-we-need-plan-great-upheaval

An excellent, long read. Definitely thinking about buying this guys book when it’s out.Gaia is a she/her. :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Gaia is a she/her. :wink:

:greengrin ‘Guy’ is a non gender noun, just like Gaia probably!

[Moulin Yarns]

:greengrin ‘Guy’ is a non gender noun, just like Gaia probably!

Gaia is the Greek Goddess of Earth, the mother of all things. Definitely a she/her

[hibsbollah]

Regardless of gender of said author :greengrin It’s a very good piece and I will be searching out more of her work soon.

[grunt]

Regardless of gender of said author :greengrin It’s a very good piece and I will be searching out more of her work soon.
:thumbsup:

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1560655871629074433

@LizSpecht
It's finally happening, but still not fast enough. Major inflection point coming in the alt protein space as plant-based products start outcompeting animal products on price.

2 examples of this starting to happen, in different product categories, and why it matters:..

[Moulin Yarns]

https://mobile.twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1560655871629074433

@LizSpecht
It's finally happening, but still not fast enough. Major inflection point coming in the alt protein space as plant-based products start outcompeting animal products on price.

2 examples of this starting to happen, in different product categories, and why it matters:..

A link to an 'alternative to meat' advocate is not going to convince many people that she is unbiased.

[Stairway 2 7]

A link to an 'alternative to meat' advocate is not going to convince many people that she is unbiased.

I'd hope she is biased and I hope her bias pushes people to consider less meat intake. Non meat protein alternatives being cheaper than the meat equivalents will be huge

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.wired.com/story/alt-meat-trounces-animal-meats-massive-inefficiencies/

The article she was linking is good

Alt-Meat Trounces Animal Meat's Massive Inefficiencies
Opinion: Animal meat production is slow, rigid, and wasteful. Plant- and cell-based meat production is swift, nimble, and sustainable

https://archive.ph/XNfY7
Newly published figures show for first time how US-style factory farms have spread across British countryside
There are more than 1,000 US-style mega-farms in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, including some holding as many as a million animals, according to a new investigation.

Lab grown meat has massive potential also

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.corporateknights.com/food-beverage/why-is-plant-based-protein-still-more-expensive-than-meat/

You can find all sorts of things to support your point of view on the Internet.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.corporateknights.com/food-beverage/why-is-plant-based-protein-still-more-expensive-than-meat/

You can find all sorts of things to support your point of view on the Internet.

You actually spent time to look for that brilliant. She was literally saying price parity isn't happening fast enough. But gave a couple of examples where its getting close.

If people can afford it it would be great if they even swapped a day or two of meat for alternatives. It is much better for the environment. Hopefully the price will go down so its affordable, its definitely moving that way. The more people buy the more likely companies will push it which should help prices.

[Antifa Hibs]

The bin strikes in Edinburgh have been an eye-opener.

The amount of single use products we use on a daily basis without a seconds thought is staggering. Normally its hidden out of sight in bins so we don't see the full picture but its crazy when its there in front of us for all to see littering the streets. Plastic cups, juice bottles, coffee cups, wrappers - plastics galore. All of which will be existing and buried under a field for the next 1000 years. Crazy. And that's just the city centre which is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the city then what we use and chuck out globally.

[Smartie]

The bin strikes in Edinburgh have been an eye-opener.

The amount of single use products we use on a daily basis without a seconds thought is staggering. Normally its hidden out of sight in bins so we don't see the full picture but its crazy when its there in front of us for all to see littering the streets. Plastic cups, juice bottles, coffee cups, wrappers - plastics galore. All of which will be existing and buried under a field for the next 1000 years. Crazy. And that's just the city centre which is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the city then what we use and chuck out globally.

Very good point.

Although from a personal point of view I'm much more aware of these things than I was 5, 10, 20 years ago, when it would all be hoyed in the bin without any thought. I remember at first the idea of recycling seemed excessive, and anyone who showed even a vague interest in making an effort would be dubbed "Swampy" or chuckled at for being part of the green welly brigade.

Obviously we've got a very long way to go but we've been going in the right direction in many ways.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/three-offshore-wind-farm-projects-announced-for-waters-near-shetland

£56m bonus to the Scottish Government with rental income while operational 👍

[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/three-offshore-wind-farm-projects-announced-for-waters-near-shetland

£56m bonus to the Scottish Government with rental income while operational 👍

Do you think these will make massive profit for the operators with the winning bids. If the answer is yes why the f are we giving away profit that could be nationalised. BP and Shell won't be outbidding others out of charity

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you think these will make massive profit for the operators with the winning bids. If the answer is yes why the f are we giving away profit that could be nationalised. BP and Shell won't be outbidding others out of charity

That's not possible just now, energy policy is a reserved matter.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's not possible just now, energy policy is a reserved matter.

I don't think it is. For 5 years we've said we were thinking of a national power company with plans for it to create power. They also want to create 2gw of power in the form of public owned community groups.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't think it is. For 5 years we've said we were thinking of a national power company with plans for it to create power. They also want to create 2gw of power in the form of public owned community groups.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Scotland#:~:text=Energy%20policy% 20in%20Scotland%20is,created%20the%20devolved%20Sc ottish%20Parliament.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Scotland#:~:text=Energy%20policy% 20in%20Scotland%20is,created%20the%20devolved%20Sc ottish%20Parliament.

Doesn't say that Scotland can't create a private company

[Moulin Yarns]

Doesn't say that Scotland can't create a private company

What about nationalising the energy industry though. That's what you said.

Energy is a reserved matter.

[Stairway 2 7]

What about nationalising the energy industry though. That's what you said.

Energy is a reserved matter.

So why has she said for 5 years they are going to set up a nationalised company. And why is she and you praising this new sell off as having the potential to make billions, should yous be praising Westminster for that?

[Ozyhibby]

So why has she said for 5 years they are going to set up a nationalised company. And why is she and you praising this new sell off as having the potential to make billions, should yous be praising Westminster for that?

It would be pointless anyway. The idea the SNP had was for a retail energy company. That’s not where the excess profits are. It’s in the generating. A better idea would be for the govt to start building and operating their own wind farms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

It would be pointless anyway. The idea the SNP had was for a retail energy company. That’s not where the excess profits are. It’s in the generating. A better idea would be for the govt to start building and operating their own wind farms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree. Sickening that our resources will be lost again all be it with a small slice of the profit. I believe Scotland has the proverbial gold mine in renewables, we need to start getting all the profits from it

[Moulin Yarns]

So why has she said for 5 years they are going to set up a nationalised company. And why is she and you praising this new sell off as having the potential to make billions, should yous be praising Westminster for that?

I'm sure you understand that we are talking about two different things. Energy generation is reserved to Westminster. Energy supply is in private hands. By leasing the sea bed the government is raising funds that wouldn't be available otherwise.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm sure you understand that we are talking about two different things. Energy generation is reserved to Westminster. Energy supply is in private hands. By leasing the sea bed the government is raising funds that wouldn't be available otherwise.

Scotland can lease the sea beds to whoever it wants including a nationalised company. It can also set the terms on leases it gives. I think our terms are more favorable the England's last sell off, but both are weighted to profiting the energy companies

[Ozyhibby]

Scotland can lease the sea beds to whoever it wants including a nationalised company. It can also set the terms on leases it gives. I think our terms are more favorable the England's last sell off, but both are weighted to profiting the energy companies

Can we set up a nationalised generating company though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Can we set up a nationalised generating company though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not without the permission of Westminster, because it is a reserved matter!

[Stairway 2 7]

Can we set up a nationalised generating company though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://commonweal.scot/how-to-nationalise-scotwind/
A good article from the commonweal on how we get the profits from taking controlling stakes of the companies and also starting the energy company we said we would

From this thread on the poor energy sell of we just did
https://mobile.twitter.com/thecommongreen/status/1561993564711751680

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty depressing. I've noticed before the great secure street bike parking in marchmount. Seeing as leith walk is the most densely populated area in Scotland, you'd think it would be packed with them

https://mobile.twitter.com/david_mccraw/status/1562052459530420224

@david_mccraw
TFW you plot the location of Edinburgh's bike hangers against areas of multiple deprivation, because you're sure there's no correlation, and oh

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty depressing. I've noticed before the great secure street bike parking in marchmount. Seeing as leith walk is the most densely populated area in Scotland, you'd think it would be packed with them

https://mobile.twitter.com/david_mccraw/status/1562052459530420224

@david_mccraw
TFW you plot the location of Edinburgh's bike hangers against areas of multiple deprivation, because you're sure there's no correlation, and oh

Now would have been a good time to fix that with all the tram works going on in leith walk. You also need these things at destinations for cyclists as well, so they should be all over the city centre.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/mack-rutherford-teenager-youngest-person-fly-solo-around-world

I used to find these kind of stories interesting and inspiring in some cases. With the world as it is it just seems like a ridiculous bit of pet vanity from the rich and privileged and creating a load of unnecessary pollution at the same time.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting but totally depressing thread

https://mobile.twitter.com/RoachSN/status/1562512812802703360

@RoachSN
Oil and gas companies say they’re going green. Yesterday I looked through some of their accounts to see if it’s true.

In the first half of this year, 4 companies made £74.4bn and reinvested £3.4bn in low carbon energy. On average, that’s equivalent to 5% of their profits

[Kato]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/mack-rutherford-teenager-youngest-person-fly-solo-around-world

I used to find these kind of stories interesting and inspiring in some cases. With the world as it is it just seems like a ridiculous bit of pet vanity from the rich and privileged and creating a load of unnecessary pollution at the same time.-- see space ships and lighting up buildings all night--

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

-- see space ships and lighting up buildings all night--

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

...and this need for a certain breed of entitled (usually) white middle aged rich person to get a bit fitter than they were, fly across the world and shuffle up Mount Everest with hundreds of other middle aged persons in an industrial process of unethical tourism, and shuffle back down again, leaving tonne bags of rubbish and excrement behind them, just so they can put it on their facebook? Its not even that physically demanding anymore, by all accounts.

[grunt]

...and this need for a certain breed of entitled (usually) white middle aged rich person to get a bit fitter than they were, fly across the world and shuffle up Mount Everest with hundreds of other middle aged persons in an industrial process of unethical tourism, and shuffle back down again, leaving tonne bags of rubbish and excrement behind them, just so they can put it on their facebook? Its not even that physically demanding anymore, by all accounts.
Too hard for me thanks.


On average, around five climbers die every year trying to summit Mount Everest. There have been 311 recorded deaths on Everest since 1922. In 2019, 11 people died on Everest during a record season with a huge number of climbers.

[hibsbollah]

Too hard for me thanks.

It’s true that some climbers have died, i read a bit about it. Almost of the 2021 deaths were caused by the queues grinding to a halt far from base camp, and the groups not being able to move fast enough to escape the weather coming in. Strewn with rubbish but the companies are charging anywhere up to $100k for a guided assent so they’re raking it in.

Some peaks on Skye are way more challenging.

[Stairway 2 7]

Too hard for me thanks.

About 800 climb and 5 die a year is a bit much for me too

[grunt]

If I'm completely honest, I'm not sure about the value of having an Extinction Rebellion demo in Edinburgh during the festival ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbLZbswVUAAXpjx?format=jpg&name=large

[Antifa Hibs]

If I'm completely honest, I'm not sure about the value of having an Extinction Rebellion demo in Edinburgh during the festival ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbLZbswVUAAXpjx?format=jpg&name=large


Even though you're talking about it, on a fitba forum? Could say job done for XR :wink:


Pakistan has taken a hit with the climate recently. 50 degrees plus a few months back now over 30 million people displaced with the flash floods they#re now encountering https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/27/pakistan-floods-death-toll-nearing-1000-say-officials

[Stairway 2 7]

Going a cruise generates more co2 than any other holiday, including a flight and hotel. Train the least

https://www.ft.com/content/9f261daa-dabb-4549-82da-67d01026f099

[hibsbollah]

Even though you're talking about it, on a fitba forum? Could say job done for XR :wink:


Pakistan has taken a hit with the climate recently. 50 degrees plus a few months back now over 30 million people displaced with the flash floods they#re now encountering https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/27/pakistan-floods-death-toll-nearing-1000-say-officials

A third of Pakistan underwater. Absolutely terrible scenes on the news tonight. This planetary breakdown thing really is all starting to happen isn’t it?

[Oscar T Grouch]

Going a cruise generates more co2 than any other holiday, including a flight and hotel. Train the least

https://www.ft.com/content/9f261daa-dabb-4549-82da-67d01026f099

The Mail on Sunday printed this in their latest edition;
Save cash on household bills...by taking a cruise! It is now almost cheaper to go on an all-inclusive holiday than it is to stay at home!

What planet do these people live on? it's a bit like Eggwina Curry telling us to put tin foil behind the radiators that people can no longer afford to turn on in order to reflect heat back into the room! SMFH!

Sorry for leaking the wrong topic in to this thread, just when I saw the bit about cruises it brought this to mind.

[hibsbollah]

Rees Mogg the climate change denier, becomes the Energy Minister.

I think we know where this is going. Fracking, fossil fuel companies will be cracking open the Moët.

[grunt]

Rees Mogg the climate change denier, becomes the Energy Minister.

I think we know where this is going. Fracking, fossil fuel companies will be cracking open the Moët.
:agree:

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesGDyke/status/1585535170387607552

30 degrees in France in November...

[wookie70]

New PM can't be arsed to go to COP27. A bit ambitious, he might not last that long

[Ozyhibby]

New PM can't be arsed to go to COP27. A bit ambitious, he might not last that long

Chucked the Cop 26 President and the climate change minister out of cabinet as well. UK is going in a different direction now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Julia Hartley Brewer on BBCQT on unbelievable climate change denying form last night, on the panel with a Tory cabinet minister, Labour MP David Lammy and Ianuuci. ‘It’s just the weather’ was the headline grabbing line. And pathetic from Fiona Bruce not to push JHH on what exactly, the UN scientists ARE saying, if ‘they are not saying that?’ as she claimed? If there is a conspiracy of ‘cancelling’ these kind of insane views, why are they all over the BBC these days?

[degenerated]

New PM can't be arsed to go to COP27. A bit ambitious, he might not last that longNicola Sturgeon is attending, there will be a few burst blood vessels caused by that :greengrin26260

[Berwickhibby]

Nicola Sturgeon is attending, there will be a few burst blood vessels caused by that :greengrin26260

She cannot miss a good photo opportunity 🙄

[ronaldo7]

Nicola Sturgeon is attending, there will be a few burst blood vessels caused by that :greengrin26260

Only one up until now. 😂

[cabbageandribs1875]

Johnson planning to attend Cop27, is that because he slept throughout Cop26, drunken fat bare-faced lying PoS

[Ozyhibby]

Johnson planning to attend Cop27, is that because he slept throughout Cop26, drunken fat bare-faced lying PoS

He’s going because he hates Sunak and Sunak left an open goal. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Starmer say he’s going.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

He’s going because he hates Sunak and Sunak left an open goal. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Starmer say he’s going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


oh it's absolutely a PR stunt for the chase to next Tory leadership event


but it's quite laughable when this is given as the reason



Several sources said they had been told that Johnson is intending to go to the crucial meeting of world leaders in Egypt to show his solidarity with the battle against the climate crisis (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-crisis).


he didn't show too much solidarity with other world leaders when he was p@ssed in Glasgow, the **** has no idea what other speakers said

[ballengeich]

oh it's absolutely a PR stunt for the chase to next Tory leadership event


but it's quite laughable when this is given as the reason



Several sources said they had been told that Johnson is intending to go to the crucial meeting of world leaders in Egypt to show his solidarity with the battle against the climate crisis (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-crisis).


he didn't show too much solidarity with other world leaders when he was p@ssed in Glasgow, the **** has no idea what other speakers said
He could give a talk about the danger of human over-population.

[cabbageandribs1875]

He could give a talk about the danger of human over-population.



and why half the population has probably came from his seeds :greengrin

[He's here!]

New PM can't be arsed to go to COP27. A bit ambitious, he might not last that long

I don't get the need for world leaders to congregate for a gathering like this which is focused on a green global future yet entails thousands of attendees racking up countless air miles to get there. Why can't they host the meetings online? The PM and King Charles have the right idea IMHO.

[He's here!]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/mack-rutherford-teenager-youngest-person-fly-solo-around-world

I used to find these kind of stories interesting and inspiring in some cases. With the world as it is it just seems like a ridiculous bit of pet vanity from the rich and privileged and creating a load of unnecessary pollution at the same time.

Agreed.

Also agree re Everest. There should be a ban on climbing it.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't get the need for world leaders to congregate for a gathering like this which is focused on a green global future yet entails thousands of attendees racking up countless air miles to get there. Why can't they host the meetings online? The PM and King Charles have the right idea IMHO.

Charlie wanted and was intending to go, tories said no. Climate is the main political drive of Charles apparently and the government are concerned about it

[Ozyhibby]

I don't get the need for world leaders to congregate for a gathering like this which is focused on a green global future yet entails thousands of attendees racking up countless air miles to get there. Why can't they host the meetings online? The PM and King Charles have the right idea IMHO.

Because online meetings don’t get things done the same way.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221030/c7ed816e7f7f4fd0b385a40020b0e5e9.jpg

Bit of a power move by the new King v Sunak.


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[Hibbyradge]

I don't get the need for world leaders to congregate for a gathering like this which is focused on a green global future yet entails thousands of attendees racking up countless air miles to get there. Why can't they host the meetings online? The PM and King Charles have the right idea IMHO.

More work gets done during breaks and at the end of the day than can happen during the actual conference.

It also underlined the huge importance of the issue and the participants commitment.

[degenerated]

I don't get the need for world leaders to congregate for a gathering like this which is focused on a green global future yet entails thousands of attendees racking up countless air miles to get there. Why can't they host the meetings online? The PM and King Charles have the right idea IMHO.

The PM is going now, I assume you think that's the wrong decision?

[AgentDaleCooper]

If I'm completely honest, I'm not sure about the value of having an Extinction Rebellion demo in Edinburgh during the festival ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbLZbswVUAAXpjx?format=jpg&name=large

i don't really see the point of not having one. They aren't seeming to be extremely effective, yet, but I honestly can't see what else can be done at this point - if nothing else, they are an annoying stone in society's shoe, reminding everyone that we are absolutely not doing enough. We should all be doing what they are doing - demanding that the government completely changes its policies to ensure environmental sustainability, and that this should be paid for by the rich, not the poor.

Kemi Badenoch said it best, though she meant it as a bad thing - that dealing with the climate emergency would require 'unilateral economic disarmament'. She's right, and the stakes are literally apocalyptic.

TBH, I honestly don't know how anyone can have a considered position of being against ExR - objections tend to amount to little more than 'this is really annoying'.

[hibsbollah]

i don't really see the point of not having one. They aren't seeming to be extremely effective, yet, but I honestly can't see what else can be done at this point - if nothing else, they are an annoying stone in society's shoe, reminding everyone that we are absolutely not doing enough. We should all be doing what they are doing - demanding that the government completely changes its policies to ensure environmental sustainability, and that this should be paid for by the rich, not the poor.

Kemi Badenoch said it best, though she meant it as a bad thing - that dealing with the climate emergency would require 'unilateral economic disarmament'. She's right, and the stakes are literally apocalyptic.

TBH, I honestly don't know how anyone can have a considered position of being against ExR - objections tend to amount to little more than 'this is really annoying'.

Agree 100%. Most objections to ExR tend to come, in my opinion, from people who have been culture-warred into thinking the protestors aren’t part of their group, wear different clothes, are too young or middle class or something, while not actually thinking about the power of the message, which is indisputably right.

[AgentDaleCooper]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/04/un-chief-antonio-guterres-climate-crisis-cop27?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR1lKihZIsA4PKWwoAlo-2uKej3-_YxpDsNqeJGvPgKyMoPm3W0sVkK2clk

article about how utterly ****ed we are if we don't radically change.

...yet people are more exercised about the price of a pint in Edinburgh.

Those who find Extinction Rebellion annoying - do you not find it more annoying that we're all sleepwalking into the apocalypse? :confused: