COP26 Glasgow

[Smartie]

If you mean the Hydro, possibly. For me, it's sanitised and cold.

If you mean the SECC, nope :greengrin It's a barn of a place IMO, which was obviously built to be all things to all people. On the gig side, it fails on all measures.

I agree 100% about the SECC. Still enjoyed seeing the Beastie Boys there though.

But re the hydro - stuff at places like that tend to be corporate, sanitised and cold. Edgy comedians who toned it down to be a success on the telly. Bands who were epic making a racket in sweaty, small venues who end up pumping out banality to the masses.

If these folk are to have their payday, it’s better done in a place that’s built for that purpose (such as the hydro) than one that’s not (the SECC).

[Stairway 2 7]

Newhaven is a residential area. There would be too many planning objections.

There's miles of land down the docks empty could be next to the massive film studio they were going to build. Could put hotels round it like Liverpool have done with the echo

[gbhibby]

Or on the royal Highland show ground at ingliston. Tram almost to the door 😉
Good idea plenty of room out there.
There is the big hall at Ingliston which has hosted Queen, Rush, Genesis, Boston, Barry Manilow. Unfortunately missed Barry but was at the other gigs. Just think they could use that big white elephant the Edinburgh Gateway Station🐘🐘🐘. £30 MILLION well spent sorry wasted on that project

[Santa Cruz]

Multiple vehicle crash on M8 near slip off used for SEC COP26 access.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19695830.multiple-vehicle-crash-m8-near-slip-off-used-sec-cop26-access/?ref=nab


Susan Aitken, Glasgow Council, self isolating. Close contact of an L.A Mayor who apparently briefly met with the FM also.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19694874.susan-aitken-self-isolates-covid-close-contact-la-mayor-eric-garcetti-cop-26-glasgow/

[Keith_M]

Which is nice but uneconomical for a lot of acts. Edinburgh desperately needs a venue that holds around 8-10k.



I'm not sure I actually get the reasoning behind this.

Glasgow has very little going for it, compared to Edinburgh, so it needs venues like this a lot more. I think building stuff through here is what they call 'levelling up'.

[makaveli1875]

I'm not sure I actually get the reasoning behind this.

Glasgow has very little going for it, compared to Edinburgh, so it needs venues like this a lot more. I think building stuff through here is what they call 'levelling up'.

That's harsh, Glasgow has alot going for it. A healthy rat population, the natives won't have to rake in too many buckets to find 1 to eat these days

[LaMotta]

What about Princes Street? The Council could purchase the stores still in use in the strip from Jenners along to Hanover St and convert it. Easy access for public transport. Princes Street is all but finished as a main retail area. There used to be houses and pubs where the EICC was built which you would never think to look at it if you hadn't known the area beforehand.

Gary McKay's Centre Spot pub! Anyone ever go? I was too young - was it as classless as the owner?

[Santa Cruz]

Gary McKay's Centre Spot pub! Anyone ever go? I was too young - was it as classless as the owner?

I don't know about the Centre Spot part of the name but I was in it when it was just called McKay's. Just a regular boozer with quite a lot of Hibs supporters I knew who were regulars. I was trying to remember the other pubs name, I think it was the Barley Bree but could be wrong.

[LaMotta]

I don't know about the Centre Spot part of the name but I was in it when it was just called McKay's. Just a regular boozer with quite a lot of Hibs supporters I knew who were regulars. I was trying to remember the other pubs name, I think it was the Barley Bree but could be wrong.

:aok:

[Killiehibbie]

Gary McKay's Centre Spot pub! Anyone ever go? I was too young - was it as classless as the owner?

It often had no windows.

[Kato]

I don't know about the Centre Spot part of the name but I was in it when it was just called McKay's. Just a regular boozer with quite a lot of Hibs supporters I knew who were regulars. I was trying to remember the other pubs name, I think it was the Barley Bree but could be wrong.Barley Bree it was bud, tiny room . Spent many a pleasant Saturday evening there after away games.

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[Santa Cruz]

Barley Bree it was bud, tiny room . Spent many a pleasant Saturday evening there after away games.

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Lost Edinburgh on Facebook has some good old and new photo's, I could see the pub, just not the name. Shows the place Lord B mentioned in his post that used to be a bus depot but now Gov offices.

[lord bunberry]

I know, I had breakfast in Lowdens.

I've parked in that garage in the past, and the hotel is not part of it.

FWIW, it might have been a good location for a concert venue but obviously the money wasn't there.
The hotel 100% is above Loudens and round the side in the new development.

[Speedy]

There are loads of fields out Gilmerton way which could be an option?

Not exactly handy but close to the bypass and no further away from the centre than P&J live in Aberdeen.

[lord bunberry]

There are loads of fields out Gilmerton way which could be an option?

Not exactly handy but close to the bypass and no further away from the centre than P&J live in Aberdeen.
There’s also plenty places down in granton along west shore road, also leith docks has loads of room.

[hibsbollah]

**** me this thread breaks all records for sustained off topic. You’d think COP wasn’t a big deal :rolleyes:

[lord bunberry]

**** me this thread breaks all records for sustained off topic. You’d think COP wasn’t a big deal :rolleyes:
You’re welcome to bring it back on track if you want. There’s very little to talk about so far.

[CropleyWasGod]

You’re welcome to bring it back on track if you want. There’s very little to talk about so far.

I dunno.

I'm really worried about how I'm gonna restrict my methane emissions.

[Since90+2]

There’s also plenty places down in granton along west shore road, also leith docks has loads of room.

Yip. Plenty space in and around Edinburgh if the will from the council and business community was there.

[hibsbollah]

You’re welcome to bring it back on track if you want. There’s very little to talk about so far.

Well yes, obviously I can If I want, it’s a messageboard :greengrin Just seems two pages of possible sites for an Edinburgh music venue is a bit symptomatic of the lack of interest in the OP.

[LaMotta]

Greta Thunberg grabbing the headlines today. She is great at criticising leaders and saying nobody is doing anything, but I've yet to hear any meaningful solutions or ideas from her.

Maybe she has and I'm being harsh?

[lord bunberry]

Well yes, obviously I can If I want, it’s a messageboard :greengrin Just seems two pages of possible sites for an Edinburgh music venue is a bit symptomatic of the lack of interest in the OP.
I suspect there will be very little to talk about until it’s all finished, even then the debate will go on as to how much has been achieved.

[lord bunberry]

A lot of this has to do with affordability in this country. I’m pretty certain that almost everyone would if offered switch to an electric car and have solar panels on our roof. The government could make the solar panels happen if they wanted, they could also make electric cars more affordable if they were really serious about climate change, but they won’t do it because ultimately they don’t really don’t care enough beyond paying lip service. If it becomes a major vote winner(and it obviously will) they’ll do everything they can.

[hibsbollah]

Greta Thunberg grabbing the headlines today. She is great at criticising leaders and saying nobody is doing anything, but I've yet to hear any meaningful solutions or ideas from her.

Maybe she has and I'm being harsh?

She’s actually been pretty specific about what success looks like. A cast iron commitment to 1.5c increase in temperature, which at COP is being watered down to an ‘aim’, 1.9% is being discussed now as a ‘realistic’ figure, which scientists say will have severe and immediate consequences, and more importantly the actual policy changes that will allow these targets to be met. Lots of countries have good targets, but are simultaneously planning new coal fired power stations that will make the 1.5 figure impossible to reach. Countries like India are going for zero emissions but are setting the date at 2070, in fifty years by which time the damage will be done and the peak passed. A 2-3% increase in global temperature is inevitably going to lead to mass starvation, mass migration, end of days stuff. And that’s the result unless policies follow targets.

[The Tubs]

A lot of this has to do with affordability in this country. I’m pretty certain that almost everyone would if offered switch to an electric car and have solar panels on our roof. The government could make the solar panels happen if they wanted, they could also make electric cars more affordable if they were really serious about climate change, but they won’t do it because ultimately they don’t really don’t care enough beyond paying lip service. If it becomes a major vote winner(and it obviously will) they’ll do everything they can.

If it's to do with affordability, why do the poorest, or even middle-income, countries produce far fewer tonnes of greenhouse gases?

[lord bunberry]

If it's to do with affordability, why do the poorest, or even middle-income, countries produce far fewer tonnes of greenhouse gases?
I thought i made it clear I was talking about this country.

[The Tubs]

I thought i made it clear I was talking about this country.

It is clear. I was interested in hearing your opinion about other countries. How can they afford to release fewer tonnes if they have less money?

[Kato]

The whole thing has been useless. Driving at a wall at 60mph and discussing whether we should be slamming the brakes on a just few inches away from the brick.

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[The Tubs]

The whole thing has been useless. Driving at a wall at 60mph and discussing whether we should be slamming the brakes on a just few inches away from the brick.

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I think we have to try. If it chops a few billions or millions off the number of lives lost, then it hasn't been in vain.

[Santa Cruz]

Well yes, obviously I can If I want, it’s a messageboard :greengrin Just seems two pages of possible sites for an Edinburgh music venue is a bit symptomatic of the lack of interest in the OP.

Are you going to the Jeremy Corbyn "Alternative COP26" event in Edinburgh next week?

[hibsbollah]

Are you going to the Jeremy Corbyn "Alternative COP26" event in Edinburgh next week?

No, it’s sold out but I’m very happy for the Southside Community Centre, who my close friend now sadly passed away, managed by himself as a volunteer not too long ago, is getting these kind of high profile speakers. The green new deal that was in the 2017 Labour manifesto was far more ambitious than anything we’ve seen from a major UK party.

[Santa Cruz]

No, it’s sold out but I’m very happy for the Southside Community Centre, who my close friend now sadly passed away, managed by himself as a volunteer not too long ago, is getting these kind of high profile speakers. The green new deal that was in the 2017 Labour manifesto was far more ambitious than anything we’ve seen from a major UK party.

It's good to have events like this in both Edinburgh and Glasgow.

[Moulin Yarns]

I dunno.

I'm really worried about how I'm gonna restrict my methane emissions.

I think that's the same for most old farts. Me included 😉

[Antifa Hibs]

Greta Thunberg grabbing the headlines today. She is great at criticising leaders and saying nobody is doing anything, but I've yet to hear any meaningful solutions or ideas from her.

Maybe she has and I'm being harsh?

We essentially have the brains of the world at cop26 - and you're expecting solutions from a 17 year old lassie? And not those who yield the power (being governments, scientists and business leaders?)

[Pretty Boy]

We essentially have the brains of the world at cop26 - and you're expecting solutions from a 17 year old lassie? And not those who yield the power (being governments, scientists and business leaders?)

I do wonder if what will actually kick start meaningful action on climate change is the passage of time.

At 35 I'm far from young but I'm the youngest in my office and far more switched on about climate change and sympathetic to protestors and the like than those I work with in their 50s and 60s. The people I know in their teens are far more clued up than me.

I think part of that is education. I was taught about 'global warming' at school albeit in a patchy and unstructured way. The generations older than me didn't have that but the generations after are now aware of it from a very young age.

Throughout COP26 the stories about the conference and climate change in general have failed to make the most read section on the BBC website despite near saturation of coverage. Compare that to social media and new media where it is everywhere.

There is a log of generalising from me there and I know plenty people older than me who are switched on about climate change and passionate about changing it but it's something which I think is largely going to be driven by the youth. If we are willing to listen to them.

[heretoday]

Loads of cyclists heading west on Glasgow Road. Where are they heading? Some of them have little kids in buggies hooked on to the back. It's a very cold journey for them if they're heading for Glasgow. Not a good idea.

[lapsedhibee]

Loads of cyclists heading west on Glasgow Road. Where are they heading? Some of them have little kids in buggies hooked on to the back. It's a very cold journey for them if they're heading for Glasgow. Not a good idea.

Why not? Because people that know about climate change don't know how to dress their children properly? :confused:

[hibsbollah]

The whole thing has been useless. Driving at a wall at 60mph and discussing whether we should be slamming the brakes on a just few inches away from the brick.

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I don’t agree with that. Climate crisis is definitely going to happen regardless but the difference between a1.5% rise in temperatures and 3% rise is literally the difference between a) real problems that are manageable and b) collapse of whole societies.

[heretoday]

Why not? Because people that know about climate change don't know how to dress their children properly? :confused:

Yes, I'm worried about the kids. They've got to come back later too remember! One of the cyclists stopped and took his jacket off to put it over his kid in the buggy. That leaves him with a thin top on. Mad.
I must be getting old.

[Santa Cruz]

Loads of cyclists heading west on Glasgow Road. Where are they heading? Some of them have little kids in buggies hooked on to the back. It's a very cold journey for them if they're heading for Glasgow. Not a good idea.

There's a massive protest n Glasgow today. I think they're expecting crowds of 50,000. I understand what you're saying about concerns with weather. I personally would be more concerned about taking small kids to such a crowded event for safety reasons. That's just me though and others view things differently, which is their right.

[lord bunberry]

It is clear. I was interested in hearing your opinion about other countries. How can they afford to release fewer tonnes if they have less money?
I suppose it will require the richer countries to fund it. It’s obviously more difficult for for poorer countries as often burning fossil fuels is part of the process of raising the quality of life of the people in that country.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes, I'm worried about the kids. They've got to come back later too remember! One of the cyclists stopped and took his jacket off to put it over his kid in the buggy. That leaves him with a thin top on. Mad.
I must be getting old.

He'll be warm enough, cycling 50 miles into a 20+mph headwind. :boo hoo:

Be surprised if they come back on a bike same day with children though.

[Moulin Yarns]

He'll be warm enough, cycling 50 miles into a 20+mph headwind. :boo hoo:

Be surprised if they come back on a bike same day with children though.

My local branch of the Scottish Green Party are cycling there and there is transport back, could be the same thing for an organised trip from Edinburgh.

PS I've just cycled to my local Parkrun, done 5k then cycled back. Raining on both cycle trips but dry for the run. Appropriate clothing is essential.

[Glory Lurker]

I suppose it will require the richer countries to fund it. It’s obviously more difficult for for poorer countries as often burning fossil fuels is part of the process of raising the quality of life of the people in that country.

It certainly is up to the rich countries to fund it. We won't though, or at least not adequately, and it will be too late.

[Moulin Yarns]

My local branch of the Scottish Green Party are cycling there and there is transport back, could be the same thing for an organised trip from Edinburgh.

PS I've just cycled to my local Parkrun, done 5k then cycled back. Raining on both cycle trips but dry for the run. Appropriate clothing is essential.

I can't remember if it was on this thread where there was a discussion on walking speed. Think it was, anyways, I walked the Parkrun because I have an achilles injury, so with an injury, I walked 5km or 3.1 miles while talking to another person who was also walking, over a hilly woodland course in 46 minutes and 53 seconds. I would have been faster if I had been on my own. That's around 4 miles an hour which is a good walking pace 👍

[hibsbollah]

He'll be warm enough, cycling 50 miles into a 20+mph headwind. :boo hoo:

Be surprised if they come back on a bike same day with children though.

40mph winds gusting up to 50mph now forecast. Yon treehugging families with young children on bikes will be struggling…

[Moulin Yarns]

40mph winds gusting up to 50mph now forecast. Yon treehugging families with young children on bikes will be struggling…

I would just turn the battery on 😉

[Kato]

I think we have to try. If it chops a few billions or millions off the number of lives lost, then it hasn't been in vain.

Agreed.

[lapsedhibee]

I would just turn the battery on 😉

"HYPOCRITE!" :grr::panic:

[hibsbollah]

I would just turn the battery on 😉

Hipster alert :faf:

[Paul1642]

Why in every photo of the climate prostrate are there Lebanon flags? Are they world leaders in net zero or are the usual lot hijacking a cause cause that people are actually paying attention to.

[Glory Lurker]

Why in every photo of the climate prostrate are there Lebanon flags? Are they world leaders in net zero or are the usual lot hijacking a cause cause that people are actually paying attention to.

Palestinian. Tibetan flags and "yes" saltires. Not the time or place. I'd probably extend that to saltires, full stop. It's a global crisis that doesn't give a stuff about borders. All that sort of stuff does is give folk who want an easy excuse to dismiss it that very excuse.

[vincipernoi]

Why in every photo of the climate prostrate are there Lebanon flags? Are they world leaders in net zero or are the usual lot hijacking a cause cause that people are actually paying attention to.

Are they not Palestinian flags ? Don't know the relevance to COP26 though

[Moulin Yarns]

Hipster alert :faf:

Less of the hipster, more an issue with my knees and the huge hill I have to climb to get home. It's an age thing dontcha know! :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Are they not Palestinian flags ? Don't know the relevance to COP26 though

They are Palestinian flags. The Lebanon flag has a tree in the middle, I my opinion the best flag of any planet Earth country.

[hibsbollah]

Less of the hipster, more an issue with my knees and the huge hill I have to climb to get home. It's an age thing dontcha know! :wink:

I’ve just done Dundas Street top to bottom on my old Cayo with a dodgy knee in 50 mph gusts. If I can do it etc….

[Moulin Yarns]

They are Palestinian flags. The Lebanon flag has a tree in the middle, I my opinion the best flag of any planet Earth country.

Cedrus libani if you are interested :wink:

[Glory Lurker]

They are Palestinian flags. The Lebanon flag has a tree in the middle, I my opinion the best flag of any planet Earth country.

It's a cracker. It'd be second if California was to go independent though.

[Moulin Yarns]

I’ve just done Dundas Street top to bottom on my old Cayo with a dodgy knee in 50 mph gusts. If I can do it etc….

I've got 15 years on you though :wink: and top to bottom is easy, the return journey though? I'd wait on the bus :greengrin

[grunt]

For me, the SECC and the Hydro are the worst of all possible venues. The acoustics at the SECC are horrendous, and the sightlines poor. The Hydro feels like any stadium gig. Half a mile away from the stage, with the consequent sound issues and a need to watch the screen because the stage is so far away.

IMO, there are much better venues in Glasgow and Edinburgh for gigs. If we're advocating for a Hydro-type place in Edinburgh, I wouldn't thank you for it.Totally agree.


We are on the same page. Queen's Hall, Oran Mor. Nice intimate gigs.Totally agree.

My comment about Ingliston being a shed wasn't to praise the SECC and Hydro (OVO?). I dislike them also, but Ingliston doesn't even have the amenities that those two have. I don't personally enjoy arena concerts any more, and thankfully the bands I follow no longer draw those crowds, but if you need to have a venue to cater for crowds of 8000+, then I'd prefer to go virtually anywhere other than Ingliston.

[Pretty Boy]

It's a cracker. It'd be second if California was to go independent though.

Kiribati for me. Effortlessly cool.

[Moulin Yarns]

Totally agree.

Totally agree.

My comment about Ingliston being a shed wasn't to praise the SECC and Hydro (OVO?). I dislike them also, but Ingliston doesn't even have the amenities that those two have. I don't personally enjoy arena concerts any more, and thankfully the bands I follow no longer draw those crowds, but if you need to have a venue to cater for crowds of 8000+, then I'd prefer to go virtually anywhere other than Ingliston.

Here is some info on the different venues that exist at the Royal Highland Showground

outdoors 35,000 https://www.royalhighlandcentre.co.uk/hire-venue/our-venues/south-arena/

seated 5,250 standing 6,000 https://www.royalhighlandcentre.co.uk/hire-venue/our-venues/lowland-hall/

seated 10,500 standing 12,000 https://www.royalhighlandcentre.co.uk/hire-venue/our-venues/highland-hall/

Add to that the huge area for parking, or even developing a purpose built concert venue.

If I had to list my favourite venues then in Edinburgh, Queen's hall, La Belle Angel (pre fire). I would like to see a gig in St Stephen's Church at the bottom of Fredrick Street, amazing space.

Glasgow, Oran Mor, St Lukes and the concert Hall.

Pitlochry Theatre, Perth Concert Hall are also decent venues.

[grunt]

Here is some info on the different venues that exist at the Royal Highland Showground...

If I had to list my favourite venues then in Edinburgh, Queen's hall, La Belle Angel (pre fire). I would like to see a gig in St Stephen's Church at the bottom of Fredrick Street, amazing space.

Glasgow, Oran Mor, St Lukes and the concert Hall.

Pitlochry Theatre, Perth Concert Hall are also decent venues.Thanks for the info re Ingliston. Agree with these, particularly those in bold, Queens Hall being my overall favourite with almost 100 gigs there (that I remember). Was at Perth Concert Hall last week to see Richard Thompson. I also like Backstage at the Green Hotel Kinross, and I like Edinburgh Playhouse too. Never been to the Pitlochry Theatre.

I saw a gig at St Stephens in the 1990s but I don't seem to have a note of it. A largely circular church I think it was.

This post should probably be in the Upcoming Gigs thread, sorry.

[Moulin Yarns]

Thanks for the info re Ingliston. Agree with these, particularly those in bold, Queens Hall being my overall favourite with almost 100 gigs there (that I remember). Was at Perth Concert Hall last week to see Richard Thompson. I also like Backstage at the Green Hotel Kinross, and I like Edinburgh Playhouse too. Never been to the Pitlochry Theatre.

I saw a gig at St Stephens in the 1990s but I don't seem to have a note of it. A largely circular church I think it was.

This post should probably be in the Upcoming Gigs thread, sorry.

:aok:

I attended St Stephens as a boy, probably until I was about 14/15 and the interior is fantastic, and I think it would be a good venue.

Pitlochry is a 600 seat theatre, sightlines are superb. Not been to the Playhouse for a gig in decades, might even have been The Carpenters in the 1970s. Been to other things more recently. Seen some good ones at the Usher Hall as well. I do remember gigs at the Odeon in Clerk Street and the Empire (Festival Theatre). The latter is now too sanitized and the former is a total waste of a building.

It's noticable that a lot of the venues are former churches.

[Moulin Yarns]

45 minutes equates to about 3 miles, that's a short drive.




Your average person in this country wouldn't be able to walk anywhere near 3 miles in 45 minutes, could you?


4mph is brisk but doable with surprisingly little practice.

I Knew it was here somewhere!

I walked a 5km Parkrun today, with a tendon injury. That's 3.1 miles in 46 minutes and 53 seconds. Equates to 4 miles an hour near as damn it!


https://www.parkrun.org.uk/faskallyforest/results/weeklyresults/?runSeqNumber=15&utm_medium=email&utm_source=resultsemail&utm_campaign=systememail

[Pretty Boy]

I Knew it was here somewhere!

I walked a 5km Parkrun today, with a tendon injury. That's 3.1 miles in 46 minutes and 53 seconds. Equates to 4 miles an hour near as damn it!


https://www.parkrun.org.uk/faskallyforest/results/weeklyresults/?runSeqNumber=15&utm_medium=email&utm_source=resultsemail&utm_campaign=systememail

I must make a wee trip to this Parkrun. I'm a regular at Portobello which is 200+ people most weeks.

This looks a lot more spacious which suits me just fine.

[hibsbollah]

Cedrus libani if you are interested :wink:

I’m aware. One of the classic cedars, Usually seen framing an ancestral pile in a Capability Brown inspired landscape garden.

Way to digress :not worth

[Moulin Yarns]

I must make a wee trip to this Parkrun. I'm a regular at Portobello which is 200+ people most weeks.

This looks a lot more spacious which suits me just fine.

Please do, just not next Saturday because I'm away. But if you do make it up ask any of the volunteers to point out the Grim Reaper to you. That was me last week Marshalling on the course.

We've had folk from silverknowes and portobello who have enjoyed the course, picturesque and challenging!!

[Keith_M]

I do wonder if what will actually kick start meaningful action on climate change is the passage of time.

At 35 I'm far from young but I'm the youngest in my office and far more switched on about climate change and sympathetic to protestors and the like than those I work with in their 50s and 60s. The people I know in their teens are far more clued up than me.

I think part of that is education. I was taught about 'global warming' at school albeit in a patchy and unstructured way. The generations older than me didn't have that but the generations after are now aware of it from a very young age.

Throughout COP26 the stories about the conference and climate change in general have failed to make the most read section on the BBC website despite near saturation of coverage. Compare that to social media and new media where it is everywhere.

There is a log of generalising from me there and I know plenty people older than me who are switched on about climate change and passionate about changing it but it's something which I think is largely going to be driven by the youth. If we are willing to listen to them.



I'd just like to point out that old fogies like myself have been clued up on environmental issues since the 70s, and actually took part in an environmental protest in the 80s.

:greengrin


But I do agree that there's a lot more emphasis on these types of subjects in schools and in the media, which is very welcome

[Hibrandenburg]

I can't remember if it was on this thread where there was a discussion on walking speed. Think it was, anyways, I walked the Parkrun because I have an achilles injury, so with an injury, I walked 5km or 3.1 miles while talking to another person who was also walking, over a hilly woodland course in 46 minutes and 53 seconds. I would have been faster if I had been on my own. That's around 4 miles an hour which is a good walking pace 👍

One of the Army basic fitness tests used to be 8 miles over undulating terrain, wearing full combat gear including helmet and personal weapon, weighted rucksack and at the end you had to carry someone around the same size with his gear for 100 meters and then finally climb into a truck within 2 hours.

It was the easiest physical test of them all and the pace of 8 miles in two hours was like a brisk stroll in the park.

[hibsbollah]

One of the Army basic fitness tests used to be 8 miles over undulating terrain, wearing full combat gear including helmet and personal weapon, weighted rucksack and at the end you had to carry someone around the same size with his gear for 100 meters and then finally climb into a truck within 2 hours.

It was the easiest physical test of them all and the pace of 8 miles in two hours was like a brisk stroll in the park.

:agree: Yomping. I did a walk in the Lake District with mrs bollah and some mates, an ex soldier there was Welsh and demanded I yomp for the last few miles because the pub we were going to was showing the rugby. Not difficult at all, especially when you focus on a pint.

[Keith_M]

Are they not Palestinian flags ? Don't know the relevance to COP26 though


I disagree with the way Israel treats Palestine and I'm in favour of Independence for Scotland, but I think it distracts from the environmental message to be making protests on subjects like that at Cop26

Sticking to the subject at hand would definitely be my preference.

[lapsedhibee]

One of the Army basic fitness tests used to be 8 miles over undulating terrain, wearing full combat gear including helmet and personal weapon, weighted rucksack and at the end you had to carry someone around the same size with his gear for 100 meters and then finally climb into a truck within 2 hours.

It was the easiest physical test of them all and the pace of 8 miles in two hours was like a brisk stroll in the park.

What, does the army not train people to wait till they see a little green man before they cross things? That'd slow them down all right.

[Antifa Hibs]

I do wonder if what will actually kick start meaningful action on climate change is the passage of time.

At 35 I'm far from young but I'm the youngest in my office and far more switched on about climate change and sympathetic to protestors and the like than those I work with in their 50s and 60s. The people I know in their teens are far more clued up than me.

I think part of that is education. I was taught about 'global warming' at school albeit in a patchy and unstructured way. The generations older than me didn't have that but the generations after are now aware of it from a very young age.

Throughout COP26 the stories about the conference and climate change in general have failed to make the most read section on the BBC website despite near saturation of coverage. Compare that to social media and new media where it is everywhere.

There is a log of generalising from me there and I know plenty people older than me who are switched on about climate change and passionate about changing it but it's something which I think is largely going to be driven by the youth. If we are willing to listen to them.

I'm a pessimistic fudger (shock horror :greengrin). In my workplace that has alot of people from a range of backgrounds for every young person who's aware of the climate and the world, there's 5 who just want to "cop" the latest Moncler Maya via Klarna, pop to Gaucho for a few steaks for instagram and fly to Ibiza 3 times a year so they can meet Wayne Linekar. On an individual scale some people will change their habits but the remaining will carry on as normal.

On a global scale when we need governments to step up for things like finance and infrastructure, the timescales announced during Cop26 are shocking. "We'll do this by 2030, aim to do this by 2040 and this by 2050". Has anyone committed to doing things... now?

I expected plenty soundbites and greenwashing and that's why we're getting.



On another note I was reading a brochure from Volvo for their new EV. Absolutely fair play to them they have broken down the environmental impact of their new electric crossover even going as far saying that a modern petrol car is more environmentally friendly than the EV until the EV does 70k miles. After its reached 70,000 miles the EV is better for the planet. The stupid part, they're offering this car on a 3 year lease. The stupidest part, its a 3 year lease with 8000 miles a year maximum. Couldn't make it up.

Regarding flags, I kinda get Palestinian ones. The climate crisis is a humanitarian one much like the Palestinian situation, or the situation in Yemen etc. The saltires are weird though, climate change doesn't know borders and couldn't give a **** about saltires or union jacks. Flags and Yes/No should be put aside to fight Westminster AND Holyrood on climate change (aswell as things like housing and minimum wage/cost of living).

[Keith_M]

What, does the army not train people to wait till they see a little green man before they cross things? ....


Only when they're in Area 51

[wookie70]

In another note I was reading a brochure from Volvo for their new EV. Absolutely fair play to them they have broken down the environmental impact of their new electric crossover even going as far saying that a modern petrol car is more environmentally friendly than the EV until the EV does 70k miles. After its reached 70,000 miles the EV is better for the planet. The stupid part, they're offering this car on a 3 year lease. The stupidest part, its a 3 year lease with 8000 miles a year maximum. Couldn't make it up.


Not sure if this is the document (https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/Market-Assets/INTL/Applications/DotCom/PDF/C40/Volvo-C40-Recharge-LCA-report.pdf)you were reading but this one says that an EV powered on wind generated electricity would start to make environmental sense after 49,000KM or 77,000KM using the EU mix of electricity mix.

I think one of the big issues, after range, of EVs is that they tend to be city cars so might not do huge mileages. I am thinking of a Nissan Leaf and not that many have high mileages so the benefit might be far less than I imagined. Although as a second user I would be adding to the mileage and hopefully get it beyond the efficiency of a petrol car. I like the way Volvo have done the figures though and I will help me in making a decision in the future

[Allant1981]

Not sure if this is the document (https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/Market-Assets/INTL/Applications/DotCom/PDF/C40/Volvo-C40-Recharge-LCA-report.pdf)you were reading but this one says that an EV powered on wind generated electricity would start to make environmental sense after 49,000KM or 77,000KM using the EU mix of electricity mix.

I think one of the big issues, after range, of EVs is that they tend to be city cars so might not do huge mileages. I am thinking of a Nissan Leaf and not that many have high mileages so the benefit might be far less than I imagined. Although as a second user I would be adding to the mileage and hopefully get it beyond the efficiency of a petrol car. I like the way Volvo have done the figures though and I will help me in making a decision in the future

I had the leaf for about 8 months there for work, absolutely cracking car, although never really understood why you would need a heated steering wheel but hey ho, would definitely recommend buying one although trying to get a charging point in and around edinburgh was quite difficult

[lapsedhibee]

I had the leaf for about 8 months there for work, absolutely cracking car, although never really understood why you would need a heated steering wheel but hey ho, would definitely recommend buying one although trying to get a charging point in and around edinburgh was quite difficult

Heated steering wheel's great at 5 on a winter morning until the car's had a chance to warm up!

[Keith_M]

When I lived in Munich, I don't think I ever had to drive my car to work. Same with going to the football, cinema, days out in town, etc. The reason for that was the level of convenient, integrated public transport.


I understand there's a push to use EV's or Hybrid cars but I think our focus should be more on enticing people away from the car by making the alternative a much more convenient (and affordable) option.


The first thing they could do is look at getting more trains running on existing lines at the weekend, to reduce the need to use a car to get into town. Longer term, how about reopening the South Suburban line, maybe adding a few stations long the way (e.g. Niddrie/Craigmillar)

[danhibees1875]

When I lived in Munich, I don't think I ever had to drive my car to work. Same with going to the football, cinema, days out in town, etc. The reason for that was the level of convenient, integrated public transport.


I understand there's a push to use EV's or Hybrid cars but I think our focus should be more on enticing people away from the car by making the alternative a much more convenient (and affordable) option.


The first thing they could do is look at getting more trains running on existing lines at the weekend, to reduce the need to use a car to get into town. Longer term, how about reopening the South Suburban line, maybe adding a few stations long the way (e.g. Niddrie/Craigmillar)

Agree with the concept but I think Edinburgh's bus network is already so well established it just needs a few tweaks (have they electrified all of the buses yet?) and a bit of help with town planning to ease the pinch points of congestion which slow the journey down.


Maybe I'm missing something, as it's an idea that's popped up often, but I'm not sure how much a suburban rail line would help with things Vs improving the buses?

[lord bunberry]

Agree with the concept but I think Edinburgh's bus network is already so well established it just needs a few tweaks (have they electrified all of the buses yet?) and a bit of help with town planning to ease the pinch points of congestion which slow the journey down.


Maybe I'm missing something, as it's an idea that's popped up often, but I'm not sure how much a suburban rail line would help with things Vs improving the buses?
Lots of people aren’t interested in using busses though, me being one of them. If I’m coming into town I’ll use the train, but everywhere else I take the car. If there was an option to use the train more I would definitely do that. A bus from my house to the city centre takes around 40 minutes at the moment, a train takes 7 minutes and it’s cheaper.

[danhibees1875]

Lots of people aren’t interested in using busses though, me being one of them. If I’m coming into town I’ll use the train, but everywhere else I take the car. If there was an option to use the train more I would definitely do that. A bus from my house to the city centre takes around 40 minutes at the moment, a train takes 7 minutes and it’s cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discouraging existing rail travel where the infrastructure is already there.

I'm just wondering to what degree the suburban railway line specifically would help things. It seems to me that it loops around the centre to places that are already well served by frequent buses - and with the suggestion this service be improved in terms of "greenness" and attempts to bring that commute time down.

I assume at a 40 minute bus ride that you are outside of that suburban loop? I can see why 7 v 40 minutes would put you off the bus in that specific circumstance.

[lord bunberry]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discouraging existing rail travel where the infrastructure is already there.

I'm just wondering to what degree the suburban railway line specifically would help things. It seems to me that it loops around the centre to places that are already well served by frequent buses - and with the suggestion this service be improved in terms of "greenness" and attempts to bring that commute time down.

I assume at a 40 minute bus ride that you are outside of that suburban loop? I can see why 7 v 40 minutes would put you off the bus in that specific circumstance.
The closest station to me is Brunstane, I’m not sure what the time exact route of the loop was, but someone mentioned niddrie as one of the stops and I’m pretty sure portobello was on there, both of them would be a possibility for me as I live at the Jewel. The bus is a nightmare just now with all the roadworks, I’m in leith quite a lot and it would be perfect if I could get a train there.

[lord bunberry]

A feasibility study has not long been published into the reopening of the south suburban railway.
http://archive.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/petitions/petitionsubmissions/sub-07/PE1080L.pdf


edit
Im talking nonsense, it’s an old study.

[WhileTheChief..]

I do wonder if what will actually kick start meaningful action on climate change is the passage of time.

At 35 I'm far from young but I'm the youngest in my office and far more switched on about climate change and sympathetic to protestors and the like than those I work with in their 50s and 60s. The people I know in their teens are far more clued up than me.

I think part of that is education. I was taught about 'global warming' at school albeit in a patchy and unstructured way. The generations older than me didn't have that but the generations after are now aware of it from a very young age.

Throughout COP26 the stories about the conference and climate change in general have failed to make the most read section on the BBC website despite near saturation of coverage. Compare that to social media and new media where it is everywhere.

There is a log of generalising from me there and I know plenty people older than me who are switched on about climate change and passionate about changing it but it's something which I think is largely going to be driven by the youth. If we are willing to listen to them.

There was a thing circulating on social media a while back about the differences between younger folk now compared with those of us back in the 70s.

I don't remember it all but it went something like this....

We got milk delivered in glass bottles that were re-useable
We got hand me down clothes from siblings
We didn't fly anywhere
We got toys made from wood or metal, not plastic
We didn't get driven to school, we walked
We had no electronic gadgets needing recharged
etc etc etc

It was tongue in cheek, but it made the point that as youngsters we were far more environmentally friendly than youngsters today!

So it's fine for them to point the finger at us now, but if they take a step back, they should realise that they are just as responsible for climate change with their fast fashion, lifts everywhere from parents, foreign holidays and constantly being connected to the internet etc.

They see no issue in replacing their iPhones every year for example. Mine is almost 4 years old.

So yeah it's good that they take an interest, I can do without the lecturing from them though.

[Ozyhibby]

There was a thing circulating on social media a while back about the differences between younger folk now compared with those of us back in the 70s.

I don't remember it all but it went something like this....

We got milk delivered in glass bottles that were re-useable
We got hand me down clothes from siblings
We didn't fly anywhere
We got toys made from wood or metal, not plastic
We didn't get driven to school, we walked
We had no electronic gadgets needing recharged
etc etc etc

It was tongue in cheek, but it made the point that as youngsters we were far more environmentally friendly than youngsters today!

So it's fine for them to point the finger at us now, but if they take a step back, they should realise that they are just as responsible for climate change with their fast fashion, lifts everywhere from parents, foreign holidays and constantly being connected to the internet etc.

They see no issue in replacing their iPhones every year for example. Mine is almost 4 years old.

So yeah it's good that they take an interest, I can do without the lecturing from them though.

I’ve seen it and it’s nonsense. Today’s young people don’t supply any of those goods.
Those everything was better when we were young posts on social media are cringeworthy.


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[Kato]

I’ve seen it and it’s nonsense. Today’s young people don’t supply any of those goods.
Those everything was better when we were young posts on social media are cringeworthy.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe's got a point with all the plastic though.

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[Ozyhibby]

He's got a point with all the plastic though.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Not really. It’s not young people who are putting all this plastic on the market.


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[Stairway 2 7]

He's got a point with all the plastic though.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

But not so much about the coal keeping the house warm. Daft argument anyway

[danhibees1875]

The closest station to me is Brunstane, I’m not sure what the time exact route of the loop was, but someone mentioned niddrie as one of the stops and I’m pretty sure portobello was on there, both of them would be a possibility for me as I live at the Jewel. The bus is a nightmare just now with all the roadworks, I’m in leith quite a lot and it would be perfect if I could get a train there.

It doesn't look like Brunstane was on the plan, but I think the line would go that way so would certainly make sense. Although with it already being possible to get Brunstane into Edinburgh I'm not sure it would add much?

It might help you slightly getting into Leith though. Abbeyhill rather than Waverley - but if you're middle-bottom of Leith then Waverly then tram would be the better option?

I do think there's room to improve the bus service, via a bit of town planning... But that's not based on any real understanding, just assuming a few bits of road widening/bus lanes may help (and I'm sure be a bit controversial too).
That would begin to improve the time ratio between bus and train service, the former being advantageous as there are a huge number more stops closer to people's homes (again, an easier to place to improve if required compared to a train line).

[Pretty Boy]

The closest station to me is Brunstane, I’m not sure what the time exact route of the loop was, but someone mentioned niddrie as one of the stops and I’m pretty sure portobello was on there, both of them would be a possibility for me as I live at the Jewel. The bus is a nightmare just now with all the roadworks, I’m in leith quite a lot and it would be perfect if I could get a train there.

I'm 5 minutes from Brunstane and it's great for getting into town.

The issue is the train doesn't really go anywhere else in the city. Edinburgh in general has a really crap suburban rail network to the point of it being non existent. There are stations like Wester Hailes, South Gyle, Slateford etc but very few of them link to each other, they are essentially all stand alone (in terms of being a genuine suburban rail network) and almost all involve transit through Waverley or Haymarket. It's really not possible to travel from Brunstane to Kingsknowe by train without hanging about at Waverley for half an hour (the journey by bus takes over an hour btw, from personal experience).

I know we are talking different scale altogether but I find something like the DLR amazing. I never really understood why we weren't more ambitious when the trams were first planned, they should have been (and still should be) part of a wider network of light and heavy rail that links coherently. A bus is never going to be as efficient as an integrated suburban rail network. I've argued before that the rate of population growth in Edinburgh and the wider metro area is such that we need to have an improved mass transit system in place now. Areas around Newcraighall, Niddrie, Shawfair in the east and Cammo in the west are seeing huge growth and are already close to rail stations and/or could be linked to a network with proper planning and consultation. The thought of jumping on a train after a night out and having the choice of 2 or 3 stations to alight at before a short walk home is really appealing to me. I already do it quite often to Brunstane. A 7 minute train journey and a 5 minute walk or 40 minutes sitting on the 4 or 5 bus? A no brainer. Extend that to include somewhere other than the centre of town and I'd ditch the car for trips to ER, shopping in Portobello and probbaly trips to my parents as well.

[Since90+2]

There was a thing circulating on social media a while back about the differences between younger folk now compared with those of us back in the 70s.

I don't remember it all but it went something like this....

We got milk delivered in glass bottles that were re-useable
We got hand me down clothes from siblings
We didn't fly anywhere
We got toys made from wood or metal, not plastic
We didn't get driven to school, we walked
We had no electronic gadgets needing recharged
etc etc etc

It was tongue in cheek, but it made the point that as youngsters we were far more environmentally friendly than youngsters today!

So it's fine for them to point the finger at us now, but if they take a step back, they should realise that they are just as responsible for climate change with their fast fashion, lifts everywhere from parents, foreign holidays and constantly being connected to the internet etc.

They see no issue in replacing their iPhones every year for example. Mine is almost 4 years old.

So yeah it's good that they take an interest, I can do without the lecturing from them though.

All of those things you list though have changed because of the habits of the older generation.

The issues we see today are 100% of those of a certain age. They failed to act sooner. They put these systems in place we see today.

A 19 year old can't be blamed for living in a world that has been created by the generations that have come before.

To suggest the youngsters of today are as to blame for the climate emergency as those decades older is quite frankly absurd.

[WhileTheChief..]

All of those things you list though have changed because of the habits of the older generation.

The issues we see today are 100% of those of a certain age. They failed to act sooner. They put these systems in place we see today.

A 19 year old can't be blamed for living in a world that has been created by the generations that have come before.

To suggest the youngsters of today are as to blame for the climate emergency as those decades older is quite frankly absurd.

Nobody is suggesting that though. It was a tongue in cheek, joke thing going around social media.

Just a little bit of light hearted fun. It's still allowed, even on here.

[WhileTheChief..]

But not so much about the coal keeping the house warm. Daft argument anyway

It's not a serious argument or point that was being made. It was a joke.

[Kato]

Not really. It’s not young people who are putting all this plastic on the market.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere will be plenty entrepreneurs under the age of 35 flogging plastic goods.

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[wookie70]

I had the leaf for about 8 months there for work, absolutely cracking car, although never really understood why you would need a heated steering wheel but hey ho, would definitely recommend buying one although trying to get a charging point in and around edinburgh was quite difficult

We have charging points at work. If I ever go back to the office that will be the point I will be nudged into a decision. Cycling would be just as quick for the 9 mile commute and I enjoyed it when I did it a few stone back

[Smartie]

It's not a serious argument or point that was being made. It was a joke.

I think there's a serious point to be made though and a question to be asked.

This isn't one of things that I think is black and white ie old - good, young - bad (or the opposite).

Old folk and young folk will have a collection of good and bad habits and both will need to continue the good and work on the bad.

In my opinion there isn't actually anything wrong with highlighting behaviour that may be harmful or arguments that from people that may be hypocritical.

[lord bunberry]

I'm 5 minutes from Brunstane and it's great for getting into town.

The issue is the train doesn't really go anywhere else in the city. Edinburgh in general has a really crap suburban rail network to the point of it being non existent. There are stations like Wester Hailes, South Gyle, Slateford etc but very few of them link to each other, they are essentially all stand alone (in terms of being a genuine suburban rail network) and almost all involve transit through Waverley or Haymarket. It's really not possible to travel from Brunstane to Kingsknowe by train without hanging about at Waverley for half an hour (the journey by bus takes over an hour btw, from personal experience).

I know we are talking different scale altogether but I find something like the DLR amazing. I never really understood why we weren't more ambitious when the trams were first planned, they should have been (and still should be) part of a wider network of light and heavy rail that links coherently. A bus is never going to be as efficient as an integrated suburban rail network. I've argued before that the rate of population growth in Edinburgh and the wider metro area is such that we need to have an improved mass transit system in place now. Areas around Newcraighall, Niddrie, Shawfair in the east and Cammo in the west are seeing huge growth and are already close to rail stations and/or could be linked to a network with proper planning and consultation. The thought of jumping on a train after a night out and having the choice of 2 or 3 stations to alight at before a short walk home is really appealing to me. I already do it quite often to Brunstane. A 7 minute train journey and a 5 minute walk or 40 minutes sitting on the 4 or 5 bus? A no brainer. Extend that to include somewhere other than the centre of town and I'd ditch the car for trips to ER, shopping in Portobello and probbaly trips to my parents as well.
That’s exactly the way I see it, I’d quite happily leave the car if I had a better option than the bus, I already do if I’m coming into town. The fact that most of the tracks are already there makes it even more appealing.

[JeMeSouviens]

When I lived in Munich, I don't think I ever had to drive my car to work. Same with going to the football, cinema, days out in town, etc. The reason for that was the level of convenient, integrated public transport.


I understand there's a push to use EV's or Hybrid cars but I think our focus should be more on enticing people away from the car by making the alternative a much more convenient (and affordable) option.


The first thing they could do is look at getting more trains running on existing lines at the weekend, to reduce the need to use a car to get into town. Longer term, how about reopening the South Suburban line, maybe adding a few stations long the way (e.g. Niddrie/Craigmillar)

I think it would be great but the problem is they just can't squeeze any more trains through the Haymarket-Waverley bottleneck.

[Radium]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2021/greenhouse-gas-emissions-pledges-data/

Quite depressing how much manipulation is going on with emission estimates. Even worse the number of countries who are simply not engaged.


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[Keith_M]

Agree with the concept but I think Edinburgh's bus network is already so well established it just needs a few tweaks (have they electrified all of the buses yet?) and a bit of help with town planning to ease the pinch points of congestion which slow the journey down.


Maybe I'm missing something, as it's an idea that's popped up often, but I'm not sure how much a suburban rail line would help with things Vs improving the buses?


The biggest plus is the time part of it.

For instance, going into town from Newcraighall on the number 30 bus used to take me about 35-40 minutes, but only 11-12 minutes on the train. That makes a big difference in weekly commute time for somebody working in town.


Another advantage was that I used to be able to travel from south west Munich to (for instance) the Allianz Arena, first by Tram or Train into town and then switch to the Underground the second half of the journey... but it was all on one ticket.

You've no idea how much money and time a decent, integrated public transport network can save you until you experience it for yourself.

[Antifa Hibs]

Agree with the concept but I think Edinburgh's bus network is already so well established it just needs a few tweaks (have they electrified all of the buses yet?) and a bit of help with town planning to ease the pinch points of congestion which slow the journey down.


Maybe I'm missing something, as it's an idea that's popped up often, but I'm not sure how much a suburban rail line would help with things Vs improving the buses?

Edinburgh's bus service is great but quickly rendered useless by cars on the road during peak times. More priority needs to be given to public transport which is renders these low emission zones pointless. An EV takes up as much space and time on the road as a petrol car. Edinburgh's a compact city and bus travel doesn't take that long, but, can be improved massively by the pinch points you mentioned. It can take just as long getting from the royal to the north bridge, as it does clearing the north bridge to house of fraser (or Johnny Walker).



Not sure if anyone has read the report on Edinburgh Active improvements in Edinburgh but can read it here and I believe the committee passed it which is good https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s39331/7.3%20-%20Active%20Travel%20Investment%20Programme%20Upda te.pdf


UK's defence budget is around £45b per year. Imagine what every city in the UK could do with £600m per year dedicated to public and active transport. Then multiply that the world over. Depressing.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2021/greenhouse-gas-emissions-pledges-data/

Quite depressing how much manipulation is going on with emission estimates. Even worse the number of countries who are simply not engaged.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It appears like we’re now headed for 2.4C increases on current projections to 2030. Which is way way beyond what the scientists say we can sustain without mass migration and starvation. 1.5 is a distant hope. I think these meetings will start being a yearly event as the capitalist world realises that capitalism requires a solution or there’s no more capitalism :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

Today is transport day at COP26. I wonder what monumental measures are going to be announced by Boris?

[lapsedhibee]

Today is transport day at COP26. I wonder what monumental measures are going to be announced by Boris?

Will he make the new bridge to NI train-only, to discourage private car use? :dunno:

[Keith_M]

It appears like we’re now headed for 2.4C increases on current projections to 2030. Which is way way beyond what the scientists say we can sustain without mass migration and starvation. 1.5 is a distant hope. I think these meetings will start being a yearly event as the capitalist world realises that capitalism requires a solution or there’s no more capitalism :dunno:



The sad part is that we're now on meeting number 26, which makes me more than a bit sceptical about what this one's going to actually achieve if there's already been 25 similar events.

Political Leaders are great at talking the talk, but not so great at acting on it when they realise it doesn't really suit their political or economic interests.

We all know what a total prat Johnson is and I don't believe a single word of any of his lofty speeches from last week but, let's face it, they're all the same.

For instance, our own devolved government are not much better as the proposed new oil fields in the North Sea are too helpful for the economic argument of the independence cause, so they just keep quiet about it, while spouting their green credentials.

I've mentioned before numerous times that I'm in favour of independence, but it pales into insignificance when we're discussing the future of the planet.

[Antifa Hibs]

The sad part is that we're now on meeting number 26, which makes me more than a bit sceptical about what this one's going to actually achieve if there's already been 25 similar events.

Political Leaders are great at talking the talk, but not so great at acting on it when they realise it doesn't really suit their political or economic interests.

We all know what a total prat Johnson is and I don't believe a single word of any of his lofty speeches from last week but, let's face it, they're all the same.

For instance, our own devolved government are not much better as the proposed new oil fields in the North Sea are too helpful for the economic argument of the independence cause, so they just keep quiet about it, while spouting their green credentials.

I've mentioned before numerous times that I'm in favour of independence, but it pales into insignificance when we're discussing the future of the planet.

We're agreed on something. I'm away for a lie down... :greengrin


Regarding transport i suspect it will be look at how good Tesla, Volvo and VAG have become at making electric vehicles. Technology net-zero blah blah blah while glossing over issues caused by aviation, shipping and road logistics.

[Keith_M]

We're agreed on something. I'm away for a lie down... :greengrin



A miracle has occurred!

:greengrin

[hibsbollah]

The sad part is that we're now on meeting number 26, which makes me more than a bit sceptical about what this one's going to actually achieve if there's already been 25 similar events.

Political Leaders are great at talking the talk, but not so great at acting on it when they realise it doesn't really suit their political or economic interests.

We all know what a total prat Johnson is and I don't believe a single word of any of his lofty speeches from last week but, let's face it, they're all the same.

For instance, our own devolved government are not much better as the proposed new oil fields in the North Sea are too helpful for the economic argument of the independence cause, so they just keep quiet about it, while spouting their green credentials.

I've mentioned before numerous times that I'm in favour of independence, but it pales into insignificance when we're discussing the future of the planet.

Agree with that broadly, I do think some world leaders are more sympathetic to massive structural change required than others, but the fossil fuels lobby is so pervasive it just wouldn’t be allowed. As for the SNP government, restructuring oil and gas to for example wind turbine manufacture and green tech would cost a lot of money and mean short to medium term economic pain for a country that has a fair share of endemic poverty already. If push comes to shove I do not believe the Greens and Patrick Harvie have any big influence to bring to the decisions we make as a country.

[lord bunberry]

I was through there yesterday, they’ve got a proper ring of steel around the venue, it quite impressive how well organised it all is.

[Paul1642]

It’s easy to blame the successive governments of the world (and rightly so) however it’s the public attitude that is the main issue. In 1st world countries the cost of going net zero would be the removal of the comforts we are all too used to and not willing to give up. Combined we could all make huge difference if we turned the heating down a couple of degrees and wore more layers instead, got rid of a few luxury electrical goods such as tumble dryers, dishwashers and the tv in the bedroom, only drove for essential reason and walked / used public transport when possible, stopped taking foreign holidays (including reducing tourists visiting here), and really just stopped buying things we don’t need!. We won’t though (myself included).

Instead we will just blame the government, who would no doubt be voted out at the first opportunity if they implemented strict measures.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211110/3f953583b6ee02c507fd58976e1f6e62.jpg


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[Pretty Boy]

The biggest misnomer in all of this is that there is still a rhetoric around us 'saving the planet'.

That's nonsense. Earth will be just fine regardless of our actions. It's changed and evolved for the last 4 billion plus years and will continue to be just dandy for the next 100, 100K and 100 million years. There's every chance that Earth will still be ticking along when the sun starts to die sometime between 4 and 10 billion years from now. Previous mass extinction events have largely been cause by something that has disrupted Earths carbon cycle and impacted temperatures and sea levels. The difference between the current extinction event we are living through is that previous ones were the result of various natural events. Whilst there is an argument we are seeing a natural warming cycle anyway; there have been long spells in the Earths history, including fairly recently in evolutionary terms, in which the polar ice caps have disappeared, there is almost no doubt that human activity has exacerbated the issue.

I think people need to face up to the reality of the situation. This isn't about saving the planet, to suggest it is is human arrogance at it's worst. It's about saving ourselves as a species. We are quite happily continuing down a path towards our own extinction and huge swathes of people seem loathe to change their own behaviours or put the required pressure on politicians to make wider reaching changes. Maybe if the rhetoric changed from 'save the planet' to 'save your grandchildren' people would be more inclined to act. I'm sceptical though, I think many are quite happy living in denial and/or ignorance.

[WhileTheChief..]

Are there many living in denial these days?

10 or 20 years ago I'd have been a global warming sceptic whereas I now accept it as fact.

Other than a few folk from the flat Earth society, everyone else seems to be on board.

That's what I don't get about the protesters - they're preaching to the converted these days.

[Moulin Yarns]

Are there many living in denial these days?

10 or 20 years ago I'd have been a global warming sceptic whereas I now accept it as fact.

Other than a few folk from the flat Earth society, everyone else seems to be on board.

That's what I don't get about the protesters - they're preaching to the converted these days.

You must have missed the recent budget announcements that froze duty on petrol for the 12th year in a row and cut domestic air passenger duty making it cheaper for people to increase their carbon footprint! 🙄

[WhileTheChief..]

You must have missed the recent budget announcements that froze duty on petrol for the 12th year in a row and cut domestic air passenger duty making it cheaper for people to increase their carbon footprint! 🙄

What's with the attitude any time you quote me? Always looking for an argument eh.

[Smartie]

Are there many living in denial these days?

10 or 20 years ago I'd have been a global warming sceptic whereas I now accept it as fact.

Other than a few folk from the flat Earth society, everyone else seems to be on board.

That's what I don't get about the protesters - they're preaching to the converted these days.

Are the politicians converted though? Really?

Talk is cheap. Action is a different story.

Boris Johnson can agree with the protesters all he wants (and he will, agreeing with the person in front him is what he does) - as long as the actions of the governments do not reflect their words of broad agreement, there will be a need to protest.

It's not a black and white issue imo - most people at least make noises about being environmentally aware but still there is a sliding scale of people whose actions are more and less environmentally friendly (for the avoidance of doubt, I accept that I personally am not at the polar "good" end of the scale.)

[JeMeSouviens]

Are there many living in denial these days?

10 or 20 years ago I'd have been a global warming sceptic whereas I now accept it as fact.

Other than a few folk from the flat Earth society, everyone else seems to be on board.

That's what I don't get about the protesters - they're preaching to the converted these days.


There's plenty of people/governments/companies who are nominally on board but actually have their heels dug in to get themselves exemptions, slow things down and generally act in their short term self interest.

[WhileTheChief..]

Are the politicians converted though? Really?

Talk is cheap. Action is a different story.

Boris Johnson can agree with the protesters all he wants (and he will, agreeing with the person in front him is what he does) - as long as the actions of the governments do not reflect their words of broad agreement, there will be a need to protest.

It's not a black and white issue imo - most people at least make noises about being environmentally aware but still there is a sliding scale of people whose actions are more and less environmentally friendly (for the avoidance of doubt, I accept that I personally am not at the polar "good" end of the scale.)


It will take decades to make the shift away from carbon, it can't happen overnight despite what the protesters scream about. It's impossible to deliver what they want, when they want it.

The guy from Extinction Rebellion was interviewed on the news recently and was saying we need to ban all form of transport that use fuel immediately. Today. They're not going to get anywhere with that sort of chat.

[Paul1642]

You must have missed the recent budget announcements that froze duty on petrol for the 12th year in a row and cut domestic air passenger duty making it cheaper for people to increase their carbon footprint! 🙄

That’s the issue though. Hitting the working class in the pocket isn’t going to make climate change a popular choice and politicians don’t want to make unpopular decisions.

[Stairway 2 7]

China produces 27% of the world's greenhouse gases alone and they're premier didn't fancy coming along, so what chance have you got.

I listened to a radio show saying basically the Chinese leadership feel the Western world had hundreds of years after the industrial revolution heating up the planet. In that time they grew, got rich and gave many of their citizens a good life when China was in poverty.

They now feel they deserve their time. They have a target of their emissions peaking in 2030 and net zero by 2060, but they are dubious of reaching both

[Paul1642]

China produces 27% of the world's greenhouse gases alone and they're premier didn't fancy coming along, so what chance have you got.

I listened to a radio show saying basically the Chinese leadership feel the Western world had hundreds of years after the industrial revolution heating up the planet. In that time they grew, got rich and gave many of their citizens a good life when China was in poverty.

They now feel they deserve their time. They have a target of their emissions peaking in 2030 and net zero by 2060, but they are dubious of reaching both

In fairness to China how much of their emissions are produced creating and shipping products to the west? If the product ends up in Europe then is it really just a Chinese emission?

[Stairway 2 7]

In fairness to China how much of their emissions are produced creating and shipping products to the west? If the product ends up in Europe then is it really just a Chinese emission?

Coal is there big problem and having 2 billion people needing electricity obviously

They produce 28% of world manufacturing. The US creates 10.5% of world's greenhouse gas and 17% of world's manufacturing, higher % of china's will go to its own population also as so much bigger than us.

Uk is about 2% of world manufacturing so much more than China per head of pop

[lord bunberry]

The biggest misnomer in all of this is that there is still a rhetoric around us 'saving the planet'.

That's nonsense. Earth will be just fine regardless of our actions. It's changed and evolved for the last 4 billion plus years and will continue to be just dandy for the next 100, 100K and 100 million years. There's every chance that Earth will still be ticking along when the sun starts to die sometime between 4 and 10 billion years from now. Previous mass extinction events have largely been cause by something that has disrupted Earths carbon cycle and impacted temperatures and sea levels. The difference between the current extinction event we are living through is that previous ones were the result of various natural events. Whilst there is an argument we are seeing a natural warming cycle anyway; there have been long spells in the Earths history, including fairly recently in evolutionary terms, in which the polar ice caps have disappeared, there is almost no doubt that human activity has exacerbated the issue.

I think people need to face up to the reality of the situation. This isn't about saving the planet, to suggest it is is human arrogance at it's worst. It's about saving ourselves as a species. We are quite happily continuing down a path towards our own extinction and huge swathes of people seem loathe to change their own behaviours or put the required pressure on politicians to make wider reaching changes. Maybe if the rhetoric changed from 'save the planet' to 'save your grandchildren' people would be more inclined to act. I'm sceptical though, I think many are quite happy living in denial and/or ignorance.
:top marksThere’s a theory that the reason we can’t see or detect alien civilisations is that they don’t last very long, a species becoming intelligent is fatal. As you say the Earth would recover no problem if we destroy ourselves. If you take the lifetime of our planet as a 24 hour clock, we only appear on the scene in the last few seconds. Other creatures will survive and prosper after our demise, just like we did (mammals) when the dinosaurs became extinct. The only thing we’re destroying right now is ourselves.

[Moulin Yarns]

:top marksThere’s a theory that the reason we can’t see or detect alien civilisations is that they don’t last very long, a species becoming intelligent is fatal. As you say the Earth would recover no problem if we destroy ourselves. If you take the lifetime of our planet as a 24 hour clock, we only appear on the scene in the last few seconds. Other creatures will survive and prosper after our demise, just like we did (mammals) when the dinosaurs became extinct. The only thing we’re destroying right now is ourselves.

Power to the cockroach!

[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211110/3f953583b6ee02c507fd58976e1f6e62.jpg


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The UK government, climate deniers!!

[Paul1642]

The UK government, climate deniers!!

Are the Scottish Govt opposing new oil fields?

[JeMeSouviens]

:top marksThere’s a theory that the reason we can’t see or detect alien civilisations is that they don’t last very long, a species becoming intelligent is fatal. As you say the Earth would recover no problem if we destroy ourselves. If you take the lifetime of our planet as a 24 hour clock, we only appear on the scene in the last few seconds. Other creatures will survive and prosper after our demise, just like we did (mammals) when the dinosaurs became extinct. The only thing we’re destroying right now is ourselves.

Well that's not exactly true. We're changing habitats all over the place. There'll be winners and losers among other species.

[lord bunberry]

Well that's not exactly true. We're changing habitats all over the place. There'll be winners and losers among other species.
True, it was badly worded but the point still stands. As PB says we’re not destroying the planet, we’re ruining it for ourselves and other species that have the misfortune to be around the same time as us.

[lord bunberry]

Power to the cockroach!
They’re certainly one of the species best placed to survive.

[Chorley Hibee]

Power to the cockroach!

They're already in power here in the UK.

[Moulin Yarns]

They're already in power here in the UK.

I was thinking the same but didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[Smartie]

I was thinking the same but didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I wouldn't worry, not sure we'll have many cockroaches looking in here.

[hibsbollah]

The biggest misnomer in all of this is that there is still a rhetoric around us 'saving the planet'.

That's nonsense. Earth will be just fine regardless of our actions. It's changed and evolved for the last 4 billion plus years and will continue to be just dandy for the next 100, 100K and 100 million years. There's every chance that Earth will still be ticking along when the sun starts to die sometime between 4 and 10 billion years from now. Previous mass extinction events have largely been cause by something that has disrupted Earths carbon cycle and impacted temperatures and sea levels. The difference between the current extinction event we are living through is that previous ones were the result of various natural events. Whilst there is an argument we are seeing a natural warming cycle anyway; there have been long spells in the Earths history, including fairly recently in evolutionary terms, in which the polar ice caps have disappeared, there is almost no doubt that human activity has exacerbated the issue.

I think people need to face up to the reality of the situation. This isn't about saving the planet, to suggest it is is human arrogance at it's worst. It's about saving ourselves as a species. We are quite happily continuing down a path towards our own extinction and huge swathes of people seem loathe to change their own behaviours or put the required pressure on politicians to make wider reaching changes. Maybe if the rhetoric changed from 'save the planet' to 'save your grandchildren' people would be more inclined to act. I'm sceptical though, I think many are quite happy living in denial and/or ignorance.

I would argue we ARE destroying the planet as we know it. Read some of the data on mass extinctions of a wide range of life on earth in the last hundred years, it dwarfs anything that has gone previously. In the strictly technical sense of the planet not ‘actually’ being destroyed or actually blown up, you may be correct, but the effect in terms of sustaining and nourishing life it’s really just a semantic distinction.

[Crunchie]

Are the Scottish Govt opposing new oil fields?
I saw Sturgeon tell a reporter last week it's up to Boris if any new oil fields get the go ahead :faf:

[lord bunberry]

I would argue we ARE destroying the planet as we know it. Read some of the data on mass extinctions of a wide range of life on earth in the last hundred years, it dwarfs anything that has gone previously. In the strictly technical sense of the planet not ‘actually’ being destroyed or actually blown up, you may be correct, but the effect in terms of sustaining and nourishing life it’s really just a semantic distinction.
Previous extinctions have seen roughly 75% of all life go extinct, we’re nowhere near that just now. It’s definitely not a semantic distinction, the planet as we know it has only been around for a short % of the planets history, we’ve already destroyed the planet we inherited. The Earth will continue to support life long after we’ve gone, it’s possible that that life will become sentient and make a better job of it than we have.

[Ozyhibby]

I saw Sturgeon tell a reporter last week it's up to Boris if any new oil fields get the go ahead :faf:

Is it not?


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[Radium]

Is it not?


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https://twitter.com/c4ciaran/status/1425769312636260353?s=21


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[Santa Cruz]

https://twitter.com/c4ciaran/status/1425769312636260353?s=21


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The letter was sent the week after the FM was cornered by a young Scottish activist. I heard the activist discuss this on Politics Scotland at the weekend.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/nicola-sturgeon-confronted-by-cambo-oilfield-protesters?top

[CropleyWasGod]

I saw Sturgeon tell a reporter last week it's up to Boris if any new oil fields get the go ahead :faf:

It is.

Granting of licences is reserved to the UKG.

[Crunchie]

It is.

Granting of licences is reserved to the UKG.
Yup I know that, and the licence for Cambo was granted 20 years ago, Sturgeon was all for it and I do believe it was one of the flagship oilfields they cited for an Independent Scotland.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yup I know that, and the licence for Cambo was granted 20 years ago, Sturgeon was all for it and I do believe it was one of the flagship oilfields they cited for an Independent Scotland.

She's allowed to change her mind. As is BJ.

[Ozyhibby]

She's allowed to change her mind. As is BJ.

Changing minds is crucial if we are going to fix the climate crisis and people shouldn’t be hassled about previous stances so long as the come to the right decision now. If Johnson changes his mind now then hats off to him.


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[Crunchie]

She's allowed to change her mind. As is BJ.
Yup, and she does it alright.

[lapsedhibee]

Yup, and she does it alright.
Keep at it, you might turn it in to a smoking gun.

[CropleyWasGod]

Encouraging news....

BBC News - COP26: China and US agree to boost climate co-operation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-59238869

[Radium]

The letter was sent the week after the FM was cornered by a young Scottish activist. I heard the activist discuss this on Politics Scotland at the weekend.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/nicola-sturgeon-confronted-by-cambo-oilfield-protesters?top

No issue with the activists taking up the cause. It’s a reserved matter so not currently in the gift of a Scottish First Minister


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[Moulin Yarns]

It is.

Granting of licences is reserved to the UKG.

Unless it is fracking, which our planning laws will not allow.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-gets-hands-on-can-of-irn-bru-at-cop26?top

That's how to build international relations 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇺🇸

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Yup, and she does it alright.

I know what you're getting at and all politicians can filp flop to suit.
The one area I let them off us regards climate change. The science and understanding is evolving at pace and nearly every government would gave done an about turn on this issue from 20, 10 or even 5 years ago.

[Antifa Hibs]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-gets-hands-on-can-of-irn-bru-at-cop26?top

That's how to build international relations 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇺🇸

Nah. This is how you build international relations, workers to workers bypassing neolib ******s

https://twitter.com/ScottishTUC/status/1458488039638974466

:cool2:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/amy_cassidy1/status/1458874260890566661?s=21

Leadership.[emoji106]


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[degenerated]

Yup, and she does it alright.Says the man who claimed to have voted SNP but changed to Tory :hilarious

[Antifa Hibs]

Good write-up here about "Transport day" - or lack of it for that matter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2021/11/10/electric-cars-wont-save-the-planet-say-transport-experts-at-cop26/?sh=2d3498427978

[Crunchie]

Says the man who claimed to have voted SNP but changed to Tory :hilarious
No claims about it, but I've voted Labour in more elections than SNP and Conservative combined :aok:. My voting doesn't impact the country though, Sturgeons flip flopping certainly does, especially the issue of oil which has been at the core of the SNP drive for independence since their existence.

[Santa Cruz]

Nah. This is how you build international relations, workers to workers bypassing neolib ******s

https://twitter.com/ScottishTUC/status/1458488039638974466

:cool2:

I watched this last night. Very impressive speech. I see from RF's timeline she put other points to the PM, doubt he took them onboard, but good for Roz anyway. :aok:

[lapsedhibee]

especially the issue of oil which has been at the core of the SNP drive for independence since their existence.

When do you imagine oil started flowing from the North Sea, and when do you imagine a movement for Scottish independence began?

[hibsbollah]

I watched this last night. Very impressive speech. I see from RF's timeline she put other points to the PM, doubt he took them onboard, but good for Roz anyway. :aok:

It’s basically a call for international workers solidarity with feminism, rights for indigenous communities and anti racism thrown in as part of the overall solution to the climate crisis. If that’s your bag then fair enough :greengrin

[Kato]

No claims about it, but I've voted Labour in more elections than SNP and Conservative combined :aok:. My voting doesn't impact the country though, Sturgeons flip flopping certainly does, especially the issue of oil which has been at the core of the SNP drive for independence since their existence.Oil hadn't been discovered in Scotland when the SNP came into existence.

When it was discovered the SNP were called paranoid for claiming the size of the discovery was larger than UK Govts were publicising. They have been proved correct.

Since then it's been accepted that fossil fuels aren't the best thing to use as they harm the environment. That's scientific advice which can be applied or ignored.

Is it flip-flopping or does time move on and things just change?

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[Santa Cruz]

It’s basically a call for international workers solidarity with feminism, rights for indigenous communities and anti racism thrown in as part of the overall solution to the climate crisis. If that’s your bag then fair enough :greengrin

I've listened to her speak before, she speaks well on many issues. Inequalities factor into the climate crisis do they not? I don't think it's the Gen Sec of the STUC place to find solutions, she's there to highlight issues pertaining to her area of responsibility.

[hibsbollah]

I've listened to her speak before, she speaks well on many issues. Inequalities factor into the climate crisis do they not? I don't think it's the Gen Sec of the STUC place to find solutions, she's there to highlight issues pertaining to her area of responsibility.

Agreed. She was absolutely speaking my language. I just think its interesting that when socialist ideas and policies are set out, people like yourself, who forgive me if im wrong, would absolutely not define yourself as a socialist, get enthusiastic about them.

[Santa Cruz]

Agreed. She was absolutely speaking my language. I just think its interesting that when socialist ideas and policies are set out, people like yourself, who forgive me if im wrong, would absolutely not define yourself as a socialist, get enthusiastic about them.

Why? Can people not pick and choose which policies and topics interest them without having to align their selves with a specific political ideology?

[hibsbollah]

Why? Can people not pick and choose which policies and topics interest them without having to align their selves with a specific political ideology?

Yes.

[Keith_M]

Soooooooo....... have they achieved anything useful?

[Ozyhibby]

Soooooooo....... have they achieved anything useful?

No.


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[Paul1642]

Sounds like the wording is getting diluted at request of the main polluters. Coal needs phased out, not phased down!

Edit: Agreement has been made. Time will tell of it’s enough though. Seems to me that we have agreed to delay making any much needed immediate changes.

[neil7908]

Sounds like the wording is getting diluted at request of the main polluters. Coal needs phased out, not phased down!

Edit: Agreement has been made. Time will tell of it’s enough though. Seems to me that we have agreed to delay making any much needed immediate changes.

It's not enough. Estimates are we will hit 2.4 C increase, which will cause massive, massive damage. Its a form of progress I guess but nowhere near enough.

[wee_cooper]

No claims about it, but I've voted Labour in more elections than SNP and Conservative combined :aok:. My voting doesn't impact the country though, Sturgeons flip flopping certainly does, especially the issue of oil which has been at the core of the SNP drive for independence since their existence.

Let's just break this down...

"My voting doesn't impact the country though,"

Really?? So voting is a waste of time. Or is it just your vote that isn't counted? All of our votes impact the country. That's the very nature of elections.

"especially the issue of oil which has been at the core of the SNP drive for independence since their existence."

The SNP was formed long before the 1970's oil boom. I add this link for you to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party

Am happy to send you more political info if need be for you to get up to speed

[EI255]

Another year. Another complete waste of time and money.

WTF

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[danhibees1875]

Sounds like the wording is getting diluted at request of the main polluters. Coal needs phased out, not phased down!

Edit: Agreement has been made. Time will tell of it’s enough though. Seems to me that we have agreed to delay making any much needed immediate changes.

Is there an alternative to coal to use for a BBQ?

[hibsbollah]

Is there an alternative to coal to use for a BBQ?

We use coffee logs for the fire pit, widely available on Amazon etc. The thing with all bbq fuel is, is it as uniformly hot everywhere ? You can only learn from experimenting:aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

China could now hardly drop its massive coal use just increase other ways of getting electricity to dilute the total. New wording is undoubtedly weaker

https://mobile.twitter.com/DevanSinha/status/1459623293531602952?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Change from 'phase-out' to 'phase-down' in COP26 agreement makes a big difference to unabated coal ie not carbon capture.

As a share of electricity generation could decline but make no significant change to top line emissions. eg China 72->47% share but similar TWH generation.

25277

[heretoday]

Obama made a bit of a bollox of himself didn't he? At least he writes his own speeches. Any competent speechwriter would have checked things.
The sad thing is that Trump would have known better, him having such a connection to Scotland.
But Trump wouldn't have been there.

[JimBHibees]

Obama made a bit of a bollox of himself didn't he? At least he writes his own speeches. Any competent speechwriter would have checked things.
The sad thing is that Trump would have known better, him having such a connection to Scotland.
But Trump wouldn't have been there.

In what way re Obama? Hadn't really heard anything about him

[Keith_M]

In what way re Obama? Hadn't really heard anything about him



Maybe he was referring to Obama's speech in Glasgow where he said...


"Since we're in the Emerald Isles here, let me quote the Bard, William Shakespeare."

[Killiehibbie]

Maybe he was referring to Obama's speech in Glasgow where he said...


"Since we're in the Emerald Isles here, let me quote the Bard, William Shakespeare."
How many mistakes is it possible to make in one sentence?

[Keith_M]

How many mistakes is it possible to make in one sentence?



I'll have you know that guy won a Nobel Peace Prize.

For his amazing efforts in bringing peace to the world, only (I think) nine months after becoming President.


That's some achievement, you must admit!

[Killiehibbie]

I'll have you know that guy won a Nobel Peace Prize.

For his amazing efforts in bringing peace to the world, only (I think) nine months after becoming President.


That's some achievement, you must admit!

I got a Noble prize after 1 spin, not a doctor to be seen. Machine must've been rigged for somebody else.

[Pretty Boy]

What a colossal waste of time.

I'm sure we'll definitely, 100% honest, no doubt about it do something meaningful at COP27.

[danhibees1875]

We use coffee logs for the fire pit, widely available on Amazon etc. The thing with all bbq fuel is, is it as uniformly hot everywhere ? You can only learn from experimenting:aok:

Thanks! Mixed reviews on whether or not they should be used for BBQing (too much flame) but I'll keep an eye out for similar alternatives.

I wonder what the emissions damage is from burning a bag of coal... Perhaps emission damage will be the next thing added to product packaging to give an idea of the environmental cost of goods.

[Keith_M]

What a colossal waste of time.

I'm sure we'll definitely, 100% honest, no doubt about it do something meaningful at COP27.


The only reason it's been in the news so much is because it was in Glasgow.

The next one will slip under the radar, same as the last one.

[Kato]

Well played the UK for outsourcing our manufacturing jobs to India and China all those years ago giving us the chance to get all snooty towards those countries using coal for manufacturing our stuff.

[Stairway 2 7]

Well played the UK for outsourcing our manufacturing jobs to India and China all those years ago giving us the chance to get all snooty towards those countries using coal for manufacturing our stuff.
Uk manufacturers much more than China per head of population and much more than our our world population share.

World manufacturing output
China – 28.7%
United States – 16.8%
Japan – 7.5%
Germany – 5.3%
India – 3.1%
South Korea – 3%
Italy – 2.1%
France – 1.9%
United Kingdom – 1.8%
Indonesia – 1.6%

[Kato]

Uk manufacturers much more than China per head of population and much more than our our world population share.

World manufacturing output
China – 28.7%
United States – 16.8%
Japan – 7.5%
Germany – 5.3%
India – 3.1%
South Korea – 3%
Italy – 2.1%
France – 1.9%
United Kingdom – 1.8%
Indonesia – 1.6%

BTW - By manufacturing I'm not meaning digital goods like insurance policys or money laundering services.

EDIT

ALSO

I don't quite know what "per head of population" has to do with it.

[The Tubs]

BTW - By manufacturing I'm not meaning digital goods like insurance policys or money laundering services.

EDIT

ALSO

I don't quite know what "per head of population" has to do with it.

What matters is who believes they're deriving utility from the good. We'll buy all the crap that's produced in those places but don't take any responsibility for the problems it causes. India, I think, even in absolute terms, is still behind the UK in historical emissions.

Funny the UK media aren't getting snooty about the US or the Middle East.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

It's not just China using coal to provide us with goods.
Russia is gas rich with huge quantities in Siberia yet many Siberian towns and cities have no gas connection so are totally dependent on coal to fire the power stations and heat their homes.

The central siberian city of Krasnoyarsk which has a population of 1.1M is regarded as one of the world's most polluted due to its total reliance on coal to keep its 3 power plants in operation.
Due to the climate and geography of the city there can be up to 70 days per year where people are advised to stay indoors due to the air quality.

Gas powered plants would improve the city no end (its really a great city) but Putin directs all the gas from the Krasnoyarsk region to sell to Europe, its a cash cow.
If Europe got its act together and weren't so reliant on russian gas then there would be no need for the some of the giant coal fields in Siberia.

Just another example of the West shouting down Russia and China without fully explaining the situation.

[Keith_M]

What a colossal waste of time.

I'm sure we'll definitely, 100% honest, no doubt about it do something meaningful at COP27.


What's that saying attributed* to Albert Einstein...


"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."





* apparently wrongly, but anyway...

[Kato]

Boris imagines everyone has been in Edinburgh the last few weeks.

Does he... realise which city he has been in? https://t.co/VBEViZPjEp

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[Alex Trager]

But not so much about the coal keeping the house warm. Daft argument anyway

I would say I am (kind of) one of they youngsters.

I happen to agree with the arguments put forward on both sides, because they are both right.

Not flying, reusing clothes and bottles for example are exactly what we need to move toward. It was the correct way to live, as far as the environment is concerned.

So too, is not heating every room with a coal fire.

Likewise your (or someone elses) argument that the youngsters of now don’t make the plastic, the youngsters of the 70’s never heated their house with coal.

This isn’t just aimed at you, it is aimed at the original poster and anyone else who feels the same, indeed it is also aimed at anyone telling X that they are the reason we are in this mess. That is polarising and unlikely to get us where we need to be.

That’s not to say the points being made are wrong, they are almost always right.

What’s done is done. We need to focus on those with the real power and change our individual habits in the meantime.

Those who promise that the UK’s financial sector will be net zero by some time soon whilst also not mandating it and the same financial sector has put at least £10B into fossil fuels since Jan 2021.

[Radium]

My concern, as someone in his 50’s who will not face the real problems to come, is that this is a genuinely complicated topic and we have too many politicians in the global north who don’t support expert analysis and are just after sound bites.

Lots has to change from little things like the right to repair becoming a consumer right, which covers everything from an iPhone to a Tesla, through to having affordable ways for everyone to travel across communities and heat their homes.

There is not going to be a positive outcome from COVID because too many have died or will live with the long term health impacts. It may however lead to an understanding of the scientific strides that can be made with a collective effort across the globe. The sad thing is that it took an immediate threat to the global north before anyone really thought it was worth looking at.


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[hibsbollah]

Monbiot very good here.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/14/cop26-last-hope-survival-climate-civil-disobedience

[grunt]

Boris imagines everyone has been in Edinburgh the last few weeks.
Does he... realise which city he has been in? https://t.co/VBEViZPjEp

He does it on purpose, I'm sure of it.

[Keith_M]

Monbiot very good here.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/14/cop26-last-hope-survival-climate-civil-disobedience



Back to Horse Drawn carriages?


:dunno:

[JeMeSouviens]

Is there an alternative to coal to use for a BBQ?

Charcoal isn't a fossil fuel, so as long as you get it from a sustainable source you should be fine to pop on as many delicious plant based burgers as you like. :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Charcoal isn't a fossil fuel, so as long as you get it from a sustainable source you should be fine to pop on as many delicious plant based burgers as you like. :agree:

Forget plant based burgers.

You are far better with locally sourced meat from farms that have started a rewilding process. There is evidence that can actually sequester carbon and result in a carbon negative product. It's something I've read a lot about that seems to go largely unreported. More here:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19715631.perthshire-farmer-hails-carbon-negative-organic-scots-beef-lamb/?ref=fbshr

I know the whole 'buy British' thing gets a bad rep because it's seen as right wing populism but there is a lot to be said for thinking and buying locally when it comes to considering our impact on the environment.

[hibsbollah]

Back to Horse Drawn carriages?


:dunno:

I didn’t read it quite like that :greengrin

If you want to be one of the 25% that can make changes in everything that we do, join in.

[Keith_M]

I didn’t read it quite like that :greengrin

If you want to be one of the 25% that can make changes in everything that we do, join in.


It seemed like the logical conclusion to me.

:greengrin






Unless, of course, you're just all Hibsbolah-blah-blah

:wink:

[Antifa Hibs]

Forget plant based burgers.

You are far better with locally sourced meat from farms that have started a rewilding process. There is evidence that can actually sequester carbon and result in a carbon negative product. It's something I've read a lot about that seems to go largely unreported. More here:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19715631.perthshire-farmer-hails-carbon-negative-organic-scots-beef-lamb/?ref=fbshr

I know the whole 'buy British' thing gets a bad rep because it's seen as right wing populism but there is a lot to be said for thinking and buying locally when it comes to considering our impact on the environment.

Aye, 'cos there's hunners of them about :cb

Most cows in the UK will still be feed soya, sugarbeet and grains. So until every bit of beef is purely pasture and grass-fed, you'd be aswell skipping the middle-man (the coo) and just eating a soya burger as that's what they'll be finished on anyway.

[hibsbollah]

It seemed like the logical conclusion to me.

:greengrin






Unless, of course, you're just all Hibsbolah-blah-blah

:wink:


:greengrin
Yes, bla-bla-bla again.


Greta has a problem with messaging, blah blah blah has been overused probably because she’s not a native speaker and is on the spectrum, there is some things that don’t resonate with a lot of people especially through the horrible prism of social media. She’s just a kid with a mic and it shames us there isn’t more professional and persuasive people who can share the load. In terms of a public face for environmentalism there’s just her and Attenborough (who isn’t really globally recognisable)

[Stairway 2 7]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

[lapsedhibee]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

No bother doing any of those (just have a bath the other four days).

[Killiehibbie]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

Do we get to strip at the sink and wash the dirt and grime collected during a hard day's graft?

[Stairway 2 7]

Do we get to strip at the sink and wash the dirt and grime collected during a hard day's graft?

Yep dad gets to use the water first

[Stairway 2 7]

No bother doing any of those (just have a bath the other four days).

Like it, I'll have a bottle of red in the bath each night, so don't have to worry about not getting to drink beer

[Ozyhibby]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

Surely if you have an electric shower and live in Scotland then your shower is carbon free on account of all our electricity coming from renewables?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Surely if you have an electric shower and live in Scotland then your shower is carbon free on account of all our electricity coming from renewables?


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It a guide for the world. There will be a million caveats on probably not to be taken literally. I'm sure there is carbon neutral beer ect

[Gatecrasher]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

Suggesting stuff like this is laughable while corporations and governments continue to take the piss. Fundemental changes are required at a much higher level than this before stuff like this gets taken seriously.

[wookie70]

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
NEW: In order to respect the Paris agreement and save the planet, an ideal citizen must:

• Shower three times per week, max 8 minutes
• Stop playing video games
• Buy three shirts max per year and two trousers
• 2 hours max of streaming per day

Would also stop eating meat and drinking beer. Would only have 1 return flight a year and drive less than 5000k per year.


So who's close to a perfect citizen the driving is the only one I pass. Jambos will be gutted they have to shower an extra 3 times per week

I agree we should all try to limit our energy use but this is surely nonsense. I could be creating my own energy which covers playing games and showering. Awareness and availability of the right choice is what citizens need. Most of the issues are big business and government issues. Why is playing games an issue if the power is sustainably produced. I wish the lens was focused on those that can get to the solution quickest. The charge for plastic bags is a great example of policy makers changing a behaviour in seconds rather than other a long period of time.

[Radium]

Delhi smog: Schools and colleges shut as pollution worsens

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-59258910

Hopefully issues like this will change India’s thoughts around coal


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[danhibees1875]

It a guide for the world. There will be a million caveats on probably not to be taken literally. I'm sure there is carbon neutral beer ect

I think brewdog might even have a carbon negative beer.

If we have a case a day can we have an extra shower? :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

I think brewdog might even have a carbon negative beer.

If we have a case a day can we have an extra shower? :greengrin
I like your thinking, drinking to save humanity. I’m more that happy to do my bit. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/shell-pulls-out-of-controversial-cambo-oil-field-development?top

Shell pull out of Cambo.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/17/scottish-government-windfarm-auction-scottish-power-shell-bp-sse?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1642421734

Massive step forward for Scotland in bid for net zero.


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/17/scottish-government-windfarm-auction-scottish-power-shell-bp-sse?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1642421734

Massive step forward for Scotland in bid for net zero.


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It's great news.

I particularly liked the commitment to invest in local companies. That smacks of the oil-boom, with one major difference in that the wind won't run out :greengrin

I can't see, though, how long the leases are for. If it's 10 years, it's a great deal. If it's "forever", not so much.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's great news.

I particularly liked the commitment to invest in local companies. That smacks of the oil-boom, with one major difference in that the wind won't run out :greengrin

I can't see, though, how long the leases are for. If it's 10 years, it's a great deal. If it's "forever", not so much.

I think the £700M is made up of one off payments to buy the option to construct a windfarm. Once built (within 10 years) it's subject to ongoing rent at £1.07/MWh. So if they average 10GW (I've no idea if that's realistic) you'd be talking, 1.07 * 24 * 365 * 10000 = £93.7M pa

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the £700M is made up of one off payments to buy the option to construct a windfarm. Once built (within 10 years) it's subject to ongoing rent at £1.07/MWh. So if they average 10GW (I've no idea if that's realistic) you'd be talking, 1.07 * 24 * 365 * 10000 = £93.7M pa

Gotcha ta.

If only we could have had such a deal in the 70's :rolleyes:

So, in addition to that, there will be Corporation Tax on profits. For now, that will be to Westminster.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/17/scottish-government-windfarm-auction-scottish-power-shell-bp-sse?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1642421734

Massive step forward for Scotland in bid for net zero.








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Amazing what can be achieved when you have a government of the people, by the people, for the people instead of a government of other people, by other people, for other people.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/arctic-and-antarctic-weather-events-among-the-most-terrifying-scientists-have-recorded-317694/?fbclid=IwAR26DXLvrngpEUeYs_FmxwrrpgxxXMdGpH-3W7nNVqg3LuyMTdXtc_YaXAI

The poles warming faster than thought possible.

[The_Exile]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/arctic-and-antarctic-weather-events-among-the-most-terrifying-scientists-have-recorded-317694/?fbclid=IwAR26DXLvrngpEUeYs_FmxwrrpgxxXMdGpH-3W7nNVqg3LuyMTdXtc_YaXAI

The poles warming faster than thought possible.

The report I saw on this a few days ago I had to read twice as I was adamant they'd made a mistake. Alas, a multi-millionaire slapped another multi-millionaire on the same day so the headlines were full and no space for this. I have absolutely no faith that humanity will fix this as we will continue to vote in political parties that do not give a flying **** about it. We are able, but we won't, because we're all idiots.

[Oscar T Grouch]

The report I saw on this a few days ago I had to read twice as I was adamant they'd made a mistake. Alas, a multi-millionaire slapped another multi-millionaire on the same day so the headlines were full and no space for this. I have absolutely no faith that humanity will fix this as we will continue to vote in political parties that do not give a flying **** about it. We are able, but we won't, because we're all idiots.

Yep, the rich seem to think their money will keep them from the ravishes of climate change which is almost as daft as the accumulation of wealth is in the first place. We simply do not know how fast climate change will effect the ability of humans to sustain themselves on this planet and we are doing almost nothing to mitigate what is happening. It could well be in my lifetime (I am 49 and not in good health!) that everything goes pair shaped and the dystopian futures portrayed in so many movies will become a reality. The heating of both poles at the same time has never happened before and we have, through ice coring records that go back 10s of thousands of years proof of that. The human race is doomed, I just hope that we don't take the whole planet with us!

[Ozyhibby]

Yep, the rich seem to think their money will keep them from the ravishes of climate change which is almost as daft as the accumulation of wealth is in the first place. We simply do not know how fast climate change will effect the ability of humans to sustain themselves on this planet and we are doing almost nothing to mitigate what is happening. It could well be in my lifetime (I am 49 and not in good health!) that everything goes pair shaped and the dystopian futures portrayed in so many movies will become a reality. The heating of both poles at the same time has never happened before and we have, through ice coring records that go back 10s of thousands of years proof of that. The human race is doomed, I just hope that we don't take the whole planet with us!

Planet will be fine without us.
Your right that wealth won’t protect anyone. The wars that climate change will bring about will make sure of that.


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[Antifa Hibs]

The report I saw on this a few days ago I had to read twice as I was adamant they'd made a mistake. Alas, a multi-millionaire slapped another multi-millionaire on the same day so the headlines were full and no space for this. I have absolutely no faith that humanity will fix this as we will continue to vote in political parties that do not give a flying **** about it. We are able, but we won't, because we're all idiots.

It's a bit of a cop-out to just solely blame political parties and the owners of our largest companies. They don't give a **** 'cos most of the population doesn't **** a ****. Sad but true.

We don't need politicians to tell us not to drive that 2 miles to the bank, or not to consume meat/poultry/fish/dairy, or not to buy that new garment just 'cos its pay weekend, or not to fly for the 6th time this year etc etc etc. It ain't going to solve it on its own but would be a start. But its easier to just blame others i guess rather than take responsibility for our own actions.

[Paul1642]

It's a bit of a cop-out to just solely blame political parties and the owners of our largest companies. They don't give a **** 'cos most of the population doesn't **** a ****. Sad but true.

We don't need politicians to tell us not to drive that 2 miles to the bank, or not to consume meat/poultry/fish/dairy, or not to buy that new garment just 'cos its pay weekend, or not to fly for the 6th time this year etc etc etc. It probably ain't going to solve it on its own but would be a start. But its easier to just blame others i guess rather than take responsibility for our own actions.

Couldn’t agree more. It’s lack of personal responsibility that is the major elephant in the room. Easy to blame the rich, a government or a foreign country. China accounts for a lot of the worlds co2 but how much of that is due to us buying crap that we don’t actually need. If we all started using clothing and products until they were no longer fit for purpose rather than not being the latest model we would be off to a good start. That and not driving the 1-2 mile round trips that could be easily walked. (Which would give the NHS a little boost also due to the health benefits).

[Stairway 2 7]

Couldn’t agree more. It’s lack of personal responsibility that is the major elephant in the room. Easy to blame the rich, a government or a foreign country. China accounts for a lot of the worlds co2 but how much of that is due to us buying crap that we don’t actually need. If we all started using clothing and products until they were no longer fit for purpose rather than not being the latest model we would be off to a good start. That and not driving the 1-2 mile round trips that could be easily walked. (Which would give the NHS a little boost also due to the health benefits).

Put this up earlier but China definitely much worse than say the US who produces almost as many goods with much smaller population. Its china's need to give power to that massive population that drives its use obviously. UK produces much more than its population size

Country
Manufacturing Output (USD in billions)
Percent of National Output
Percent of Global Manufacturing

China $2,010 27% 20%
U S 1,867 12 18
Japan 1,063 19 10
Germany 700 23 7
S Korea 372 29 4
India 298 16 3
France 274 11 3
Italy 264 16 3
U K 244 10 2

Also cutting co2 faster
25726

[hibsbollah]

Put this up earlier but China definitely much worse than say the US who produces almost as many goods with much smaller population. Its china's need to give power to that massive population that drives its use obviously. UK produces much more than its population size

Country
Manufacturing Output (USD in billions)
Percent of National Output
Percent of Global Manufacturing

China $2,010 27% 20%
U S 1,867 12 18
Japan 1,063 19 10
Germany 700 23 7
S Korea 372 29 4
India 298 16 3
France 274 11 3
Italy 264 16 3
U K 244 10 2

Also cutting co2 faster
25726

Late stage industrial development, newly industrialised countries tend to have more coal than renewables. Chinas lead in manufacturing isn’t in itself a condemnation of their environmental record, it’s just the role they play in the supply chain.

[Stairway 2 7]

Late stage industrial development, newly industrialised countries tend to have more coal than renewables. Chinas lead in manufacturing isn’t in itself a condemnation of their environmental record, it’s just the role they play in the supply chain.

The thought is China only has high co2 figures is because it makes everyone's stuff. But they don't make that much, certainly not compared to population size compared to European nations. China often says the west got rich burning carbon through the industrial revolution to now, so now its their turn. They are right on us creating the problem but we all need to solve it or we're knackered

[hibsbollah]

The thought is China only has high co2 figures is because it makes everyone's stuff. But they don't make that much, certainly not compared to population size compared to European nations. China often says the west got rich burning carbon through the industrial revolution to now, so now its their turn. They are right on us creating the problem but we all need to solve it or we're knackered

The human race needs to commit itself to less economic growth, everyone. A form of cop out carbon offsetting and similar moving of titanic deckchairs agreed at COP is insufficient but NO country is doing what is required, not just China, who at least have agreed to stop building new coal, which the U.K. hasn’t committed itself to, for example.

[ronaldo7]

It seems the UK Gov are desperate to get their hands on those millions of barrels of oil we would run out of by 2019. #cambo

It's only been 6 months since Cop26.

[hibsbollah]

It seems the UK Gov are desperate to get their hands on those millions of barrels of oil we would run out of by 2019. #cambo

It's only been 6 months since Cop26.


We're committed to phasing out fossil fuels. Except when we're not.

[greenginger]

It seems the UK Gov are desperate to get their hands on those millions of barrels of oil we would run out of by 2019. #cambo

It's only been 6 months since Cop26.

At $100 a barrel North Sea oil has an extended future , at $ 35 a barrel it didn’t.

Besides we will always need to extract some oil , even if not for fuel.

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I don’t see the point in buying Arab oil when we can extract our own unless virtue signalling is more important than jobs and industry.

[ronaldo7]

At $100 a barrel North Sea oil has an extended future , at $ 35 a barrel it didn’t.

Besides we will always need to extract some oil , even if not for fuel.

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I don’t see the point in buying Arab oil when we can extract our own unless virtue signalling is more important than jobs and industry.

Not the same as the story we were told in 2014. It was running out by 2019 whatever the price. :aok:

[greenginger]

T
Not the same as the story we were told in 2014. It was running out by 2019 whatever the price. :aok:

Who told the story though ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27435624?ocid=socialflow_twitter

That story was by the Global Sustainability Institute, whoever they are/we’re.

The story was debunked by UK Energy Strategy.

[hibsbollah]

[QUOTE=greenginger;6913342...unless virtue signalling is more important than jobs and industry.[/QUOTE]

Is that the best you can do? :faf:

Your way of thinking is over, Ukraine crisis or no Ukraine crisis. Its renewables or nothing, whole countries and economies will start being litigated against by the 'virtue signalling movement'. I expect cambo to be challenged. Fossil fuels should have been a thing of the past years ago.

[Ozyhibby]

https://doomberg.substack.com/p/farmers-on-the-brink?s=r

Interesting article on the coming energy and food shortages globally.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Just heard on the radio that the oil in Cambo can't be processed at any refinery in the UK as it's the wrong kind of oil. It will all be exported. So much more energy security!!

[ronaldo7]

Just heard on the radio that the oil in Cambo can't be processed at any refinery in the UK as it's the wrong kind of oil. It will all be exported. So much more energy security!!

It's a load of old tosh, but since it's from Greg Hands, it's all good. He's making the argument that it'll stop us importing oil/gas whilst exporting the oil from Cambo.

Only the UKGOV could make that one up.

[greenginger]

Just heard on the radio that the oil in Cambo can't be processed at any refinery in the UK as it's the wrong kind of oil. It will all be exported. So much more energy security!!

Do you think the UK refineries are incapable of altering there plants to refine the Cambo oil.?

[Ozyhibby]

Talk of energy security is nonsense when it all gets sold on global market to the highest bidder. For all our energy security we are not paying less than consumers in Germany?


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[greenginger]

Is that the best you can do? :faf:

Your way of thinking is over, Ukraine crisis or no Ukraine crisis. Its renewables or nothing, whole countries and economies will start being litigated against by the 'virtue signalling movement'. I expect cambo to be challenged. Fossil fuels should have been a thing of the past years ago.

If we stop all extraction of oil, how do you suggest we continue to make the hundreds of products besides fuel that come from the refining process ?

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

[ronaldo7]

Maybe we could get our £200 discount which is not a loan to pay for some of it. :greengrin

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1512187116033388548

[hibsbollah]

If we stop all extraction of oil, how do you suggest we continue to make the hundreds of products besides fuel that come from the refining process ?

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

A very small proportion of those plastic products are necessary for normal comfortable human existence. The oil companies increase plastic production by 60% annually because it makes money for them. You’re describing a broken model like it’s something we need to continue doing :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you think the UK refineries are incapable of altering there plants to refine the Cambo oil.?

Yes. Next?

[Stairway 2 7]

Yes. Next?

There's refineries that can take it now like Grangemouth, but they would have to increase capacity. They will only do that if the profits are right. Guess it will all depend on whether oil is going to stay at this high price, hopefully not

[Moulin Yarns]

There's refineries that can take it now like Grangemouth, but they would have to increase capacity. They will only do that if the profits are right. Guess it will all depend on whether oil is going to stay at this high price, hopefully not

That's kind of my point, the profitability of other forms (in Grangemouth's case imported fracked oil from the USA) makes it less profitable to adjust refinery systems, therefore Cambo will be exported rather than be refined in the UK. Bearing in mind there are only 6 oil refineries in the UK then the volume would have to be massive to enable UK refineries to adjust their systems to accommodate it.

[WhileTheChief..]

If we stop all extraction of oil, how do you suggest we continue to make the hundreds of products besides fuel that come from the refining process ?

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

It's worse than that.

Pretty much everything that is made will have used oil in the process.

Pretty much anything that moves from A to B uses oil in some capacity.

[grunt]

It's worse than that.

Pretty much everything that is made will have used oil in the process.

Pretty much anything that moves from A to B uses oil in some capacity.
It's just too hard. So let's not bother. Let the world burn. Who cares?

[greenginger]

It's just too hard. So let's not bother. Let the world burn. Who cares?

Using oil products to make these things doesn’t add to greenhouse gas omissions.

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

But we still need the oil to continue manufacturing essential items.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's worse than that.

Pretty much everything that is made will have used oil in the process.

Pretty much anything that moves from A to B uses oil in some capacity.

My bicycle doesn't use any oil. My feet don't either. What is your point. I can get from A to B without oil. 😁

[greenginger]

My bicycle doesn't use any oil. My feet don't either. What is your point. I can get from A to B without oil. 😁

Bicycle tyres, handle bar grips , even shoes use oil bi products.

What do you use for wheel lubrication , if not oil.?

[grunt]

https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/



https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/


https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

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