Afghanistan

[Berwickhibby]

Shock, horror I consider myself Scottish :saltireflag but proud to be British also.

Me too

[Kato]

It's people like her I worry about when you see headlines like yesterday, not the likes of Boris Johnson.


It's possible to worry for the girls' boyfriend and worry about Johnson.

One sort of leads onto the other.


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[Ozyhibby]

It's called trying to shoehorn an independence argument into any thread possible. In this instance it strikes me as not only inappropriate but insensitive bearing in mind the number of Scottish military personnel who are out there.

The girl who cuts my hair told me a couple of weks ago that her fiancee, who is based at Redford barracks, was being flown out to assist with the evacuation. It's people like her I worry about when you see headlines like yesterday, not the likes of Boris Johnson.

When young Scots are sent into harms way then it’s entirely legitimate to question the integrity and competence of those sending them. Especially when they can’t get elected in Scotland.


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[He's here!]

When young Scots are sent into harms way then it’s entirely legitimate to question the integrity and competence of those sending them. Especially when they can’t get elected in Scotland.


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We went into Afghanistan and Iraq under Blair's Labour government, who were resoundingly backed by the Scottish electorate and wiped the Tories off the political map here. The 'not in my name' argument simply doesn't wash.

[Moulin Yarns]

We went into Afghanistan and Iraq under Blair's Labour government, who were resoundingly backed by the Scottish electorate and wiped the Tories off the political map here. The 'not in my name' argument simply doesn't wash.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-inquiry-tony-blair-iraq-war-weapons-of-mass-destruction-evidence-verdict-a7122361.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_invasi on_of_Iraq

Blair Labour gained 56 seats in Scotland 2001, before the war.

Blair Labour gained 41 seats in Scotland 2005, after the war. A LOSS OF 15 SEATS!!!!

Definately a resounding endorsement of the Scottish electorate. :rolleyes:


EDIT: 1997 was the year the Tories were wiped off the electoral map in Scotland ina General Election.

You really need to do your homework. :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Since the war in Iraq, Scotland has returned a Labour govt in Holyrood.


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[Northernhibee]

Biden has essentially heavily armed the Taleban. Shameful.

[lapsedhibee]

Biden has essentially heavily armed the Taleban. Shameful.

To keep a lid on IS? :dunno:

[hibsbollah]

To keep a lid on IS? :dunno:

Yesterday the bad guys are the Taleban.
This morning it’s IS.
Where is al Shabab in all this?

[hibsbollah]

Alternative view from the ground

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/27/afghanistan-nato-mission-corruption-military-soldier

[Just Alf]

We went into Afghanistan and Iraq under Blair's Labour government, who were resoundingly backed by the Scottish electorate and wiped the Tories off the political map here. The 'not in my name' argument simply doesn't wash.I'm not really clear what any of this is to do with the discussion about who is (or should be) responsible for the mismanagement of the staff/related people extraction from Afghanistan since the end date was known 18 months ago?

[makaveli1875]

Yesterday the bad guys are the Taleban.
This morning it’s IS.
Where is al Shabab in all this?

2nd bottom of the Saudi Premier League , looks like they're getting relegated if they don't sort that defence out

[Jamesie]

Since the war in Iraq, Scotland has returned a Labour govt in Holyrood.


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But to be fair the 2003 Holyrood election was only six weeks after the invasion of Iraq commenced.

[He's here!]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-inquiry-tony-blair-iraq-war-weapons-of-mass-destruction-evidence-verdict-a7122361.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_invasi on_of_Iraq

Blair Labour gained 56 seats in Scotland 2001, before the war.

Blair Labour gained 41 seats in Scotland 2005, after the war. A LOSS OF 15 SEATS!!!!

Definately a resounding endorsement of the Scottish electorate. :rolleyes:


EDIT: 1997 was the year the Tories were wiped off the electoral map in Scotland ina General Election.

You really need to do your homework. :wink:

Is it? The SNP lost 21 seats in 2017 despite the underlying assumption they'd cash in on the Brexit fallout.

The loss of 15 seats (while still retaining a hefty majority of the seats in Scotland) doesn't strike me as an especially damning indictment of the Blair government post-Iraq.

[Lendo]

Apparently allied forces have left a fair amount of equipment behind.....75,000 vehicles, 200 aircraft including Blackhawk helicopters, 600,000 small arms, ammunition, night vision goggles, kevlar vests, medical supplies but worryingly bio metric scanners with fingerprint and retina scan info on all USA citizens in Afghanistan along with Afghans who assisted the allied forces.

I believe this is the case with most wars America fights. It’s just cheaper to abandon a lot of the equipment than it is organise flying it back half way round the world. Cheaper to buy new again.

[Ozyhibby]

A free pass on what? Where and what is the great EU doing in all of this? Are there German and French planes/troops over there evacuating?

The French evacuated all their nationals and interpreters etc in May, when the US withdrawal became inevitable. What was Johnson doing at this point?


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[CropleyWasGod]

I believe this is the case with most wars America fights. It’s just cheaper to abandon a lot of the equipment than it is organise flying it back half way round the world. Cheaper to buy new again.

...and better for the economy in that there is always work for the munitions manufacturers.

[Ozyhibby]

...and better for the economy in that there is always work for the munitions manufacturers.

Surely that is a false economy though? Surely no society can really get richer by making things just to throw away? Otherwise everyone would do it?
Obviously America is doing this whole MMT thing just now but it’s still unproven and could result in crippling their Dollar. Different conversation obviously.


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[Just Alf]

Surely that is a false economy though? Surely no society can really get richer by making things just to throw away? Otherwise everyone would do it?
Obviously America is doing this whole MMT thing just now but it’s still unproven and could result in crippling their Dollar. Different conversation obviously.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLooks like Gordon Brown was ahead of his time getting rid of our gold. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely that is a false economy though? Surely no society can really get richer by making things just to throw away? Otherwise everyone would do it?
Obviously America is doing this whole MMT thing just now but it’s still unproven and could result in crippling their Dollar. Different conversation obviously.


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My Dad used to say that the US needed wars. He meant it in terms of muscle-flexing on the world stage, as well as economically. It keeps people in jobs and, if the State suffers, so be it. The country is far from socialist, so doesn't need State support to the same extent that others do. And, if things get really bad, they're big enough to borrow easily.

There's also the accusation that it's friends of Government who profit personally from wars, eg Rumsfeld, and their support is crucial.

[Moulin Yarns]

2nd bottom of the Saudi Premier League , looks like they're getting relegated if they don't sort that defence out

Aye, but the attack can be devastating 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1431378048218193921

Raab and boris being insensitive bafoons as per

[Kato]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1431378048218193921

Raab and boris being insensitive bafoons as per

Note how uncomfortable it is for them to put on a "caring" pose.

[Stairway 2 7]

I blame the Simpsons

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eating_surrender_monkeys

[CapitalGreen]

Just when I thought your posts couldn't get any worse...

You could try reporting it but nothing was done when I reported him posting anti-Islamic tropes so I wouldn’t hold your breath.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i seriously can't despise Tory politicians more than i already do.....evil *******s with a man child ex-journalist fronting them, as for them that vote them in...Mmm, meanwhile the Tory press were trying to convince the public it was all the yanks fault

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240892450_10219884894568169_4229047336214873605_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=lKzI91j1--wAX84t9LX&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=2503ba3c0ea2c19247a5dcb2a950393e&oe=6130EDC5

[He's here!]

You’re correct. What I should’ve said was politically popular to pull troops out, it didn’t matter to Biden what the consequences of pulling troops out would be. Biden has acted in a cowardly fashion and he will be forever known as the president who sacrificed innocent lives for political gain. I can’t stress enough how much this disgusts me. I was reading about things the taliban do to anyone considered collaborators, things like peeling the skin of people while still alive. The west stepped in and took control of Afghanistan, they should’ve stayed until the job was finished.

I suspect this fiasco will haunt Biden's presidency and it will be interesting to see how next year's mid-term elections pan out. Trying to make out his hands were tied by Trump's commitment to a pull-out date was nonsense.

I actually felt a bit sorry for him trying to get through that press conference on Friday. Not because I thought he didn't merit the flak but because (while it largely remains an unspoken but uncomfortable truth) he's now just too old to handle his role.

[hibsbollah]

I suspect this fiasco will haunt Biden's presidency and it will be interesting to see how next year's mid-term elections pan out. Trying to make out his hands were tied by Trump's commitment to a pull-out date was nonsense.

I actually felt a bit sorry for him trying to get through that press conference on Friday. Not because I thought he didn't merit the flak but because (while it largely remains an unspoken but uncomfortable truth) he's now just too old to handle his role.

Is this Biden’s fault?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/28/revealed-foreign-office-ignored-pleas-help-afghans-mps-evacuation

[Peevemor]

Given that Biden's only been in power 5 minutes, it's a bit harsh pinning the problems in the middle East on him.

[Crunchie]

Given that Biden's only been in power 5 minutes, it's a bit harsh pinning the problems in the middle East on him.
:faf::faf: Sorry, I couldn't help it, that's your best yet.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it's ridiculous to say Biden couldn't have changed policy 8 months after he was in the job. Has he stuck to every other trump policy?

[Peevemor]

:faf::faf: Sorry, I couldn't help it, that's your best yet.Care to expand?

[Peevemor]

I think it's ridiculous to say Biden couldn't have changed policy 8 months after he was in the job. Has he stuck to every other trump policy?It wasn't just Trump policy, it was a negotiated withdrawal.

[Stairway 2 7]

With the ******g taliban, literally no one would have complained if he tinkered with it. That is also aside from the shambles of a retreat, they had plenty of time to do it properly rather than the saigon style farce.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability

[Peevemor]

With the ******g taliban, literally no one would have complained if he tinkered with it. That is also aside from the shambles of a retreat, they had plenty of time to do it properly rather than the saigon style farce.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stabilityI'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this was always going to happen at some point.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Biden has made a pigs ear of the whole thing but I don’t think Afghanistan moves a single vote in the US.


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[hibsbollah]

I think Biden has made a pigs ear of the whole thing but I don’t think Afghanistan moves a single vote in the US.


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Correct.

[Just Alf]

Care to expand? ..... deleting as not worth it and Admins have enough to do as it is.

GGTTH!

[Peevemor]

No response I see, he'll claim had to go out etc etc and can't answer right away....

Then fires in with something else whilst ignoring the questions that were asked. A number of us are still to get an answer to who (which government even) is responsible for the UK element of the Afghan exodus.
Almost feels like he's "robotically" toeing the party line :greengrin

Pretty clear trolling? ... blocked anyway :agree:Yet I'm the one whose posting style is criticised! Maybe puerile insults are the way to go...

[HNA12]

You could try reporting it but nothing was done when I reported him posting anti-Islamic tropes so I wouldn’t hold your breath.

That post you reported was discussed by the Admin Team and whilst we got your reference we reckoned you had to look really hard to see it. Basically we couldn’t determine if it was deliberate dog whistling or not. I think our record does speak for itself though when it comes to dealing with overt racism etc, it’s dealt with promptly.

We run a football forum, this forum is an add on but in recent times it has given us far more work than the primary reason we are here does. Given the petty bickering amongst posters , the reported posts and the frequent digs towards the Admin team it generates the idea of ditching The Holy Ground and sticking to just football is becoming increasingly attractive. Can we ask that people cut out the digs at each other and debate directly with each other rather than discussing other posters amongst themselves. We don’t want to be involved in here at all if we can help it.

[Lendo]

That post you reported was discussed by the Admin Team and whilst we got your reference we reckoned you had to look really hard to see it. Basically we couldn’t determine if it was deliberate dog whistling or not. I think our record does speak for itself though when it comes to dealing with overt racism etc it’s dealt with promptly.

We run a football forum, this forum is an add on but in recent times it has given us far more work than the primary reason we are here does. Given the petty bickering amongst posters , the reported posts and the frequent digs towards the Admin team it generates the idea of ditching The Holy Ground and sticking to just football is becoming increasingly attractive. Can we ask that people cut out the digs at each other and debate directly with each other rather than discussing other posters amongst themselves. We don’t want to be involved in here at all if we can help it.

It a real shame that you even have to consider this as an option when it’s only one or two posters going out of their way to troll.

[Bangkok Hibby]

That post you reported was discussed by the Admin Team and whilst we got your reference we reckoned you had to look really hard to see it. Basically we couldn’t determine if it was deliberate dog whistling or not. I think our record does speak for itself though when it comes to dealing with overt racism etc, it’s dealt with promptly.

We run a football forum, this forum is an add on but in recent times it has given us far more work than the primary reason we are here does. Given the petty bickering amongst posters , the reported posts and the frequent digs towards the Admin team it generates the idea of ditching The Holy Ground and sticking to just football is becoming increasingly attractive. Can we ask that people cut out the digs at each other and debate directly with each other rather than discussing other posters amongst themselves. We don’t want to be involved in here at all if we can help it.

The easily hurt/annoyed/offended should just learn to accept it's a forum where a wide range of views are posted both political and football related. You will encounter everything from intelligent observation to moronic pish. Either debate or ignore and get on with your life.

[One Day Soon]

That post you reported was discussed by the Admin Team and whilst we got your reference we reckoned you had to look really hard to see it. Basically we couldn’t determine if it was deliberate dog whistling or not. I think our record does speak for itself though when it comes to dealing with overt racism etc, it’s dealt with promptly.

We run a football forum, this forum is an add on but in recent times it has given us far more work than the primary reason we are here does. Given the petty bickering amongst posters , the reported posts and the frequent digs towards the Admin team it generates the idea of ditching The Holy Ground and sticking to just football is becoming increasingly attractive. Can we ask that people cut out the digs at each other and debate directly with each other rather than discussing other posters amongst themselves. We don’t want to be involved in here at all if we can help it.


Largely stopped posting on the HG as its 'Twitterisation' has gradually deepened.

[JeMeSouviens]

Largely stopped posting on the HG as its 'Twitterisation' has gradually deepened.

That's a shame. Although I do agree and find myself drifting the same way a bit, tbh.

[Eaststand]

It a real shame that you even have to consider this as an opinion when it’s only one or two posters going out of their way to troll.

This is also my take on it.

We all know there are a couple of attention seeking posters who regularly troll and they constantly spoil a good discussion board.

I'd say ditch them, not the Holy Ground forum

GGTTH

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/hxhassan/status/1432307695948910592?s=21


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[hibsbollah]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/planes-guns-night-vision-goggles-talibans-new-us-made-war-chest-2021-08-19/

So the Taliban now have assault rifles, night vision goggles, humvees, helicopters and tanks left behind in pristine condition?? The best military equipment in the world?

Yet another thing we don’t consider when we get involved in unnecessary wars overseas.

[hibsbollah]

Largely stopped posting on the HG as its 'Twitterisation' has gradually deepened.

I don’t think the Holy Ground has got any better or worse. I think the world we live in has gone through a rapid ‘through the looking glass’ moment and there is more frustration with and genuine hatred for our political class and between different ideologies. And that’s reflected in how people interact on the internet.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/planes-guns-night-vision-goggles-talibans-new-us-made-war-chest-2021-08-19/

So the Taliban now have assault rifles, night vision goggles, humvees, helicopters and tanks left behind in pristine condition?? The best military equipment in the world?

Yet another thing we don’t consider when we get involved in unnecessary wars overseas.

If the Yanks didn't want this stuff to fall into the hands of the Taliban then for the price of a few kg of P4 they could have rendered it all useless. A part of me thinks that they now see the Taliban as the lesser of 2 evils and will covertly support them providing they obey a few ground rules.

[hibsbollah]

If the Yanks didn't want this stuff to fall into the hands of the Taliban then for the price of a few kg of P4 they could have rendered it all useless. A part of me thinks that they now see the Taliban as the lesser of 2 evils and will covertly support them providing they obey a few ground rules.

I had no idea this happened, I’ve been doing a bit of reading about it. Very common to just abandon your heaviest weaponry (in Vietnam, Afghanistan, various CIA funded forays into Central America), because it destabilizes the country you’re withdrawing from, and generates demand for replacement weaponry at home, which keeps the whole Boeing/Lockheed military-industrial complex ticking over nicely. The night vision goggles is a weird one, surely if you had any interest in keeping the Taliban as weak as possible you’d ensure such important but lightweight kit went back to Hicksville with you?

And I agree with you about the Taliban being preferable to IS from a US point of view. Far more likely to keep their demagoguery within their own borders.

[Andy Bee]

I had no idea this happened, I’ve been doing a bit of reading about it. Very common to just abandon your heaviest weaponry (in Vietnam, Afghanistan, various CIA funded forays into Central America), because it destabilizes the country you’re withdrawing from, and generates demand for replacement weaponry at home, which keeps the whole Boeing/Lockheed military-industrial complex ticking over nicely. The night vision goggles is a weird one, surely if you had any interest in keeping the Taliban as weak as possible you’d ensure such important but lightweight kit went back to Hicksville with you?

And I agree with you about the Taliban being preferable to IS from a US point of view. Far more likely to keep their demagoguery within their own borders.


They also left biometric scanners with the fingerprints and retina scans of many of the Afghans who helped the allied forces which leads me to think that the equipment was left unintenionally and because of the rapid advance of the Taliban rather than a calculated measure.

[hibsbollah]

They also left biometric scanners with the fingerprints and retina scans of many of the Afghans who helped the allied forces which leads me to think that the equipment was left unintenionally and because of the rapid advance of the Taliban rather than a calculated measure.

But there was no engagement between US forces and the Taliban in recent months, it’s not like the Americans were retreating under fire. And they had months to know they were leaving, Trump signed the ceasefire with the Taliban 18 months ago. The ‘left it behind in a hurry’ argument doesn’t stack up for me.

[Mon Dieu4]

But there was no engagement between US forces and the Taliban in recent months, it’s not like the Americans were retreating under fire. And they had months to know they were leaving, Trump signed the ceasefire with the Taliban 18 months ago. The ‘left it behind in a hurry’ argument doesn’t stack up for me.

Lots of it will have been being left for the Afghan Army to use, turned out well

[Andy Bee]

Surely the fact they weren't able to get all the people they wanted out proves they were in a hurry. They left Bagram Air Base in the middle of the night without informing the new Afghan commander of the base, that doesn't sound like well planned. It sounds like Joe Biden woke up one morning, had a brain fart and phoned the relevant people telling them to start the withdrawal immediately and he's been caught with his pants down, he was fully expecting the Afghan Government to hold out for longer.

I get the arguement for leaving equipment etc although leaving Blackhawk helicopters fully intact to the Taliban along with, I'm assuming as the base was vacated very quickly, all the spares necessary to operate them, very hard to believe but there's no reason at all to leave the scanners unless you're in a hurry.

[Peevemor]

I'm not sure what Biden could do. Whatever revised date he set, it's obvious the Taliban were going to do their own thing regardless.

[Scouse Hibee]

Surely the fact they weren't able to get all the people they wanted out proves they were in a hurry. They left Bagram Air Base in the middle of the night without informing the new Afghan commander of the base, that doesn't sound like well planned. It sounds like Joe Biden woke up one morning, had a brain fart and phoned the relevant people telling them to start the withdrawal immediately and he's been caught with his pants down, he was fully expecting the Afghan Government to hold out for longer.

I get the arguement for leaving equipment etc although leaving Blackhawk helicopters fully intact to the Taliban along with, I'm assuming as the base was vacated very quickly, all the spares necessary to operate them, very hard to believe but there's no reason at all to leave the scanners unless you're in a hurry.
I find it hard to believe they left helicopters intact.

[hibsbollah]

Surely the fact they weren't able to get all the people they wanted out proves they were in a hurry. They left Bagram Air Base in the middle of the night without informing the new Afghan commander of the base, that doesn't sound like well planned. It sounds like Joe Biden woke up one morning, had a brain fart and phoned the relevant people telling them to start the withdrawal immediately and he's been caught with his pants down, he was fully expecting the Afghan Government to hold out for longer.

I get the arguement for leaving equipment etc although leaving Blackhawk helicopters fully intact to the Taliban along with, I'm assuming as the base was vacated very quickly, all the spares necessary to operate them, very hard to believe but there's no reason at all to leave the scanners unless you're in a hurry.

You make a decent argument, but it could also be learned behavior

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/29/archives/arms-left-by-us-loss-by-saigon-force-called-catastrophic-1billion.html

[Smartie]

There’s an awful lot about this whole business that simply doesn’t add up.

[Andy Bee]

You make a decent argument, but it could also be learned behavior

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/29/archives/arms-left-by-us-loss-by-saigon-force-called-catastrophic-1billion.html

Wow, replace the generals names and Da-Nang with current generals and Kabul airport and that's a carbon copy.

Also replace the $1bn for $85bn.

[hibsbollah]

Wow, replace the generals names and Da-Nang with current generals and Kabul airport and that's a carbon copy.

Also replace the $1bn for $85bn.

Yep, even taking an inflation multiple of 8 into account what’s been left in Afghanistan is ten times more expensive than what they were calling a ‘catastrophic loss’ back then.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1975

[hibsbollah]

Lots of it will have been being left for the Afghan Army to use, turned out well

The last thing you want when you’re ‘rebuilding a country’ is lots of weaponry lying around. Look at Mexico, Colombia etc. You could say the more weaponry is easily accessible in a country the less likely you’re going to want to live there.

[Lendo]

There’s an awful lot about this whole business that simply doesn’t add up.

I said the same a few pages back. I genuinely think some backroom deals with have struck with the USA/Russia or China.

[hibsbollah]

I just watched ‘the Great Game-A Personal View’ , almost ten years old but on the iPlayer. Even if you can’t stomach Rory Stewart (I think he’s good at the presenter gig) it’s an interesting dive into Afghanistan’s military history.

[Future17]

Raab's a ****bag. More interested in protecting his job than doing it.

[hibsbollah]

The story of Ahmad, British citizen and resident of Glasgow for 17 years, stuck in Kabul with his wife and young children. Just one of thousands.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3EtKLsg5NCdS1n3klaxFvf?si=_vpMvOx_Rw6Wt3KSVTlyVw&dl_branch=1

[Mon Dieu4]

There is a new 5 part documentary on Netflix called Turning Point which covers 9/11 up to pretty much the current state of play in Afghanistan, it's a really good watch

[Callum_62]

I see #TexasTaliban is trending.....

I can see why

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58416805.amp

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[Lendo]

I see #TexasTaliban is trending.....

I can see why

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58416805.amp

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Utterly disgusting what’s happening in Texas. If someone one (it could be anyone) spots, let’s say an Uber Driver, dropping a women off at a clinic then that individual could sue the Uber Driver for facilitating a women having an abortion

[Colr]

If Lyse Duccet ever turns up in your neighbourhood, you know you are in the ****

[ronaldo7]

There is a new 5 part documentary on Netflix called Turning Point which covers 9/11 up to pretty much the current state of play in Afghanistan, it's a really good watch

I watched this the other night, it's a decent look back on the last two decades. A pivotal point is when the US change their sights towards Iraq, aided and abetted by the poodle that was Blair. Bush phoning around his allies asking for support with the message that if you're not with us, you're against us. The treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo was disgusting all covered under executive orders passed after 9/11. After focusing on Iraq, it allowed certain afghans to build empires with US cash, which somehow never trickled down to the people. It was a sham, and unless the US were going to stay for 100 years it was never going to work.

[hibsbollah]

There is a new 5 part documentary on Netflix called Turning Point which covers 9/11 up to pretty much the current state of play in Afghanistan, it's a really good watch

Watching it now. It’s the same content about CIA funding the mujahadeen which led to the same money funding al qaeda and 9/11. Destabilizing the region through a two pronged desire to defeat soviet communism and control oil supplies which didn’t belong to them. It’s also what has been widely dismissed as leftist propaganda by writers like Noam Chomsky and John Pilger i was reading in 1995 as a student, ignored by the MSM for 25 years, now accepted as historical fact.

As I get older I realize how much of the news agenda in the west is strictly controlled, even the content in supposedly liberal publications. We’ve been lied to again and again.

[Just_Jimmy]

Watching it now. It’s the same content about CIA funding the mujahadeen which led to the same money funding al qaeda and 9/11. Destabilizing the region through a two pronged desire to defeat soviet communism and control oil supplies which didn’t belong to them. It’s also what has been widely dismissed as leftist propaganda by writers like Noam Chomsky and John Pilger i was reading in 1995 as a student, ignored by the MSM for 25 years, now accepted as historical fact.

As I get older I realize how much of the news agenda in the west is strictly controlled, even the content in supposedly liberal publications. We’ve been lied to again and again."Are being lied to again and again"*

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[He's here!]

Girls excluded as Afghan secondary schools return:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58607816

Can only hope the Taliban's claim that they will re-open girls' schools doesn't prove hollow, but it's hard to comprehend a culture where this is even an issue.

[cabbageandribs1875]

the Taliban have ordered Hairdressers/Barbers not to shave/trim beards as it breaches their interpretation of Islamic law

Taliban bans shaving beards in Afghanistan's Helmand province, barbers report shift back to conservative cuts - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-27/ban-on-shaving-beards-issued-by-the-taliban-helmand-afghanistan/100493236)

[He's here!]

the Taliban have ordered Hairdressers/Barbers not to shave/trim beards as it breaches their interpretation of Islamic law

Taliban bans shaving beards in Afghanistan's Helmand province, barbers report shift back to conservative cuts - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-27/ban-on-shaving-beards-issued-by-the-taliban-helmand-afghanistan/100493236)

Such a progressive culture.

[hibsbollah]

We’re now finding out the real reason the last UK soldiers were flown out of Kabul…

Boris needed them to keep the petrol stations open back home :rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

We’re now finding out the real reason the last UK soldiers were flown out of Kabul…

Boris needed them to keep the petrol stations open back home :rolleyes:


As long as you realise that this has nothing to do with Brexit.

Every single Government Minister, when interviewed, makes it clear we were merely 'taking back control'.

[ronaldo7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62083196

Some shocking claims in this investigation being aired this evening on BBC one Panorama. SAS Death squads in action.

SAS operatives in Afghanistan repeatedly killed detainees and unarmed men in suspicious circumstances, according to a BBC investigation.

Newly obtained military reports suggest that one unit may have unlawfully killed 54 people in one six-month tour.

The BBC found evidence suggesting the former head of special forces failed to pass on evidence to a murder inquiry.

The Ministry of Defence said British troops "served with courage and professionalism in Afghanistan".

The BBC understands that General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, the former head of UK Special Forces, was briefed about the alleged unlawful killings but did not pass on the evidence to the Royal Military Police, even after the RMP began a murder investigation into the SAS squadron.

General Carleton-Smith, who went on to become head of the Army before stepping down last month, declined to comment for this story.

BBC Panorama analysed hundreds of pages of SAS operational accounts, including reports covering more than a dozen "kill or capture" raids carried out by one SAS squadron in Helmand in 2010/11.

Individuals who served with the SAS squadron on that deployment told the BBC they witnessed the SAS operatives kill unarmed people during night raids.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62083196

Some shocking claims in this investigation being aired this evening on BBC one Panorama. SAS Death squads in action.

SAS operatives in Afghanistan repeatedly killed detainees and unarmed men in suspicious circumstances, according to a BBC investigation.

Newly obtained military reports suggest that one unit may have unlawfully killed 54 people in one six-month tour.

The BBC found evidence suggesting the former head of special forces failed to pass on evidence to a murder inquiry.

The Ministry of Defence said British troops "served with courage and professionalism in Afghanistan".

The BBC understands that General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, the former head of UK Special Forces, was briefed about the alleged unlawful killings but did not pass on the evidence to the Royal Military Police, even after the RMP began a murder investigation into the SAS squadron.

General Carleton-Smith, who went on to become head of the Army before stepping down last month, declined to comment for this story.

BBC Panorama analysed hundreds of pages of SAS operational accounts, including reports covering more than a dozen "kill or capture" raids carried out by one SAS squadron in Helmand in 2010/11.

Individuals who served with the SAS squadron on that deployment told the BBC they witnessed the SAS operatives kill unarmed people during night raids.

If true, it makes the British Army no better than the Russians in Ukraine.

[Callum_62]

If true, it makes the British Army no better than the Russians in Ukraine.Yeah but we will never ever ever admit that

We are dojng it for liberation, they are doing it for oppression

Or something

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

You have rape and murder in every war unfortunately. Its been said on the Ukraine thread, but you can't compare these kinds of acts to the widespread systematic genocide in Ukraine. They are nothing like each other. This is vile murder, more akin Abu graib or mai lai massacre

[ronaldo7]

If true, it makes the British Army no better than the Russians in Ukraine.

I watched this last night, and by the looks of the investigation, SAS death squads were working with impunity with officers turning a blind eye.

Questions now raised in Parliament to get some kind of inquiry into the findings.

I wouldn't go as far to say the British army are as bad as the Russians, but it did have a feel of Northern Ireland about it. Murders, and cover ups for years to come.

[Hibrandenburg]

I watched this last night, and by the looks of the investigation, SAS death squads were working with impunity with officers turning a blind eye.

Questions now raised in Parliament to get some kind of inquiry into the findings.

I wouldn't go as far to say the British army are as bad as the Russians, but it did have a feel of Northern Ireland about it. Murders, and cover ups for years to come.

From my experience of the military, officers don't systematically turn a blind eye. The small groups of special forces carrying out these operations will have had junior officers amongst them. The military will never admit it but the similarities in these incidents show a pattern that suggests policy, we need to bear in mind we've probably only seen the tip of the iceberg with these revelations.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/2022/08/03/life-under-taliban-cages-afghan-women-and-girls-former-human-rights-chief-says/

Life under Taliban cages Afghan women and girls, former human rights chief says
Shaharzad Akbar fears extremists' regime is leading to mental health crisis and spate of suicides among women forced to sit idle at home

[Stairway 2 7]

Back to the middle ages they go.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dwnews/status/1605256951490924546

@dwnews
JUST IN: The Taliban have banned all Afghan women from attending university

[Glory Lurker]

Back to the middle ages they go.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dwnews/status/1605256951490924546

@dwnews
JUST IN: The Taliban have banned all Afghan women from attending university

Oh, we totally showed them didn't we?