Afghanistan

[CloudSquall]

Regional capitals are starting to fall one by one to the Taliban, with them taking many lucrative border crossings also it looks like it's only a matter of time before they are taking the fight to Kabul for control of Afghanistan as a whole.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58127407


Another "win" for US intervention.

[Pretty Boy]

It's almost an achievement really that after 2 decades, billions of dollars and countless lives lost that Iraq, Afghanistan. Syria etc are in a worse place than when the 'war on terror' started.

[SChibs]

It's almost an achievement really that after 2 decades, billions of dollars and countless lives lost that Iraq, Afghanistan. Syria etc are in a worse place than when the 'war on terror' started.

I don't really think America cares about the lives lost. They certainly weren't in Iraq and Afghanistan to save the local people from a brutal regime.

[Glory Lurker]

Based on nothing at all, but I wonder if the West might be quietly okay with this, if there's a chance of a Taliban Afghanistan exporting its fundamentalism in to China and Russia?

[Lendo]

Based on nothing at all, but I wonder if the West might be quietly okay with this, if there's a chance of a Taliban Afghanistan exporting its fundamentalism in to China and Russia?

Sadly I think there is far more chance of the Taliban and Russia kissing and making up over their wee war in the 80s and Russia using them as a proxy for attacks on the West.

[EI255]

Wonder what the Yanks will make of the x amount of $ billions of tax payers money they've spent on the 'A' project?

What a *** waste!

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[hibsbollah]

Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
One of the classic blunders.

[He's here!]

Huge error from Biden to pull out and essentially abandon the Afghans to stone age Taliban rule.

[Ozyhibby]

Huge error from Biden to pull out and essentially abandon the Afghans to stone age Taliban rule.

The Afghans must want Stone Age Taliban rule or else they would have crushed them by now with the advantages they have had over the last 20 years?


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[Ozyhibby]

Lot of people blaming the US but the UK is every bit as much to blame for this.


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[SChibs]

Huge error from Biden to pull out and essentially abandon the Afghans to stone age Taliban rule.

They don't care about the Afghan people and they never have. Otherwise they would be invading North Korea to free the North Koreans from a harsh dictatorship.

[Lendo]

Huge error from Biden to pull out and essentially abandon the Afghans to stone age Taliban rule.

Just freeing up some resources for the next unwinnable war in Iran. Cue 20 years of pointless bloodshed that creates yet another failed state and a generation of young Middle Eastern kids who grow up to hate the West.

[He's here!]

Just freeing up some resources for the next unwinnable war in Iran. Cue 20 years of pointless bloodshed that creates yet another failed state and a generation of young Middle Eastern kids who grow up to hate the West.

Whatever the reason he needs to rethink the US withdrawal strategy or the impending chaos if/once the Taliban take Kabul will mar his entire presidency.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Wonder what the Yanks will make of the x amount of $ billions of tax payers money they've spent on the 'A' project?

What a *** waste!

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Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
One of the classic blunders.

People have short memories. You would have thought Vietnam would have made America more circumspect about such ventures. Perhaps the old phrase is true: the only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

[Stairway 2 7]

Whatever the reason he needs to rethink the US withdrawal strategy or the impending chaos if/once the Taliban take Kabul will mar his entire presidency.

Yep why is isis came about. Taking Iraq then running off when you did

[Hibrandenburg]

With the Americans now sending in troops to protect and speed up the withdrawal, it's all looking like another Vietnam. 20 years of waste, what an utter ****-up. The worst thing is that politicians 10 years from now will have learnt nothing and the same mistakes are guaranteed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good thread on the UK embassy withdrawal, shocking

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeromestarkey/status/1425890659421020160

[He's here!]

The troops being flown back in might as well stay there if there's to be any serious hope of stalling the Taliban. It seems clear that many years of training Afghan troops to defend themselves has had no impact.

[Stairway 2 7]

The troops being flown back in might as well stay there if there's to be any serious hope of stalling the Taliban. It seems clear that many years of training Afghan troops to defend themselves has had no impact.

They are not stalling the taliban , they are throwing the afghanis and afghan army to the taliban. We're just getting our lot out and then forgetting about the place, we'll see how that goes. The US have even done a deal with the taliban. If the taliban don't touch the US embassy, the US won't stop them getting kabul

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/us/politics/taliban-afghanistan-us-embassy.html

[Ozyhibby]

They are not stalling the taliban , they are throwing the afghanis and afghan army to the taliban. We're just getting our lot out and then forgetting about the place, we'll see how that goes. The US have even done a deal with the taliban. If the taliban don't touch the US embassy, the US won't stop them getting kabul

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/us/politics/taliban-afghanistan-us-embassy.html

The Afghans are the Taliban?


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[Stairway 2 7]

The Afghans are the Taliban?


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The afghan people are being thrown to a barbaric group of afghanis the taliban. Same with the afghan puppet army ,train them then leave them to be slaughtered when we're done playing liberators.

Matthew VanDyke
@Matt_VanDyke
9m
Encouraging #women in #Afghanistan to embrace freedom, rights, education, careers, and dreams for 20 years, then abandoning them so they lose it all and are killed, forcibly married, or rarely leave the house again because of the #Taliban, is an especially cruel form of betrayal

[CloudSquall]

Regional capitals have fallen like dominos including one 90km from Kabul in the past couple of days, Taliban already in control of 1/3 of the country, situation looking very bleak.

[Ozyhibby]

The afghan people are being thrown to a barbaric group of afghanis the taliban. Same with the afghan puppet army ,train them then leave them to be slaughtered when we're done playing liberators.

Matthew VanDyke
@Matt_VanDyke
9m
Encouraging #women in #Afghanistan to embrace freedom, rights, education, careers, and dreams for 20 years, then abandoning them so they lose it all and are killed, forcibly married, or rarely leave the house again because of the #Taliban, is an especially cruel form of betrayal

I’m not disagreeing with you. What the UK have done is a complete disgrace. We need to stop getting involved in the first place. Two defeats in 20 years hopefully will hopefully bring about some reluctance in future. Besides, the army have food to deliver in the UK now. A job they are far more suited for. Glorified deliveroo drivers.
My main point is that after 20 years, the Afghans are not able to build up enough strength to take on their fellow afghans to fight for the life they want then it was never going to happen anyway.


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[ronaldo7]

I’m not disagreeing with you. What the UK have done is a complete disgrace. We need to stop getting involved in the first place. Two defeats in 20 years hopefully will hopefully bring about some reluctance in future. Besides, the army have food to deliver in the UK now. A job they are far more suited for. Glorified deliveroo drivers.
My main point is that after 20 years, the Afghans are not able to build up enough strength to take on their fellow afghans to fight for the life they want then it was never going to happen anyway.


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Imagine what the families who've lost a loved one are thinking, seeing this all play out on their TV screens. Running around the world thinking we're a big player on the world stage is just laughable. The Taliban were always going to have a resurgence and dominate when the US left the field.

Someone will try and make out the loss is actually a victory and have some battle stitched on a colour somewhere to be paraded every year.

It's pathetic.

[Ozyhibby]

£22bn we have spent on bombing Afghanistan. That’s money a future independent Scotland can spend at home helping Scottish people.


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[Bristolhibby]

I small force with air support would cost virtually nothing to the West, but would keep the Taliban (and Al Qeda) at bay. And as a result keep them from having a base of operations.

Now there is a vacuum that the Taliban are occupying.

Quite frankly it’s the families of those who have lost loved ones I feel sorry for. As this situation could have happened 20 years ago if we did **** all.

If it was an issue in 2001, why not in 2021?

They have died for nothing.

J

[He's here!]

The afghan people are being thrown to a barbaric group of afghanis the taliban. Same with the afghan puppet army ,train them then leave them to be slaughtered when we're done playing liberators.

Matthew VanDyke
@Matt_VanDyke
9m
Encouraging #women in #Afghanistan to embrace freedom, rights, education, careers, and dreams for 20 years, then abandoning them so they lose it all and are killed, forcibly married, or rarely leave the house again because of the #Taliban, is an especially cruel form of betrayal

Why are they not better trained? They seem especially hapless despite so long working in tandem with US and UK armed forces.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Afghans are the Taliban?


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There isn't really such a thing as "Afghans", that's basically the root of their problems. It's yet another ****ed up set of post-Imperial lines on a map encompassing various rival ethnicities with a history of conflict. See also: Iraq, Syria, Yugoslavia, most of Africa, Ireland ...

[SChibs]

I small force with air support would cost virtually nothing to the West, but would keep the Taliban (and Al Qeda) at bay. And as a result keep them from having a base of operations.

Now there is a vacuum that the Taliban are occupying.

Quite frankly it’s the families of those who have lost loved ones I feel sorry for. As this situation could have happened 20 years ago if we did **** all.

If it was an issue in 2001, why not in 2021?

They have died for nothing.

J

It was entirely political and never about the Afghan people in the first place. If the west cares so much about liberating oppressed citizens from brutal regimes why is nobody invading North Korea?

[Bristolhibby]

It was entirely political and never about the Afghan people in the first place. If the west cares so much about liberating oppressed citizens from brutal regimes why is nobody invading North Korea?

Oh it was about preventing Afghanistan becoming a haven for terror. That was a laudable reason. I’m just confused as to why it’s not a reason now.

I agree, the Afghan people had no choice in this matter. It was about defending ourselves by taking away the safe haven for International Terror. They (the moderate Afghans) were clearly incapable of defeating the Taliaban alone. Training does nothing if you don’t have the equipment or the support to use them. When a armoured personnel carrier breaks the Afghans pass it to the Americans and contractors to repair. That isn’t there any more, there’s no support infrastructure.

J

[He's here!]

It was entirely political and never about the Afghan people in the first place. If the west cares so much about liberating oppressed citizens from brutal regimes why is nobody invading North Korea?

Would you support such an invasion?

[Bristolhibby]

Tom Tugendhat, chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, said Afghan forces had "stepped up" in recent years, allowing Nato to end its involvement in the fighting and bringing an end to British casualties from combat.
"Now we've just pulled the rug from under them," he said. "We've taken away their air support, taken away their logistics."
Mr Tugendhat said the war had cost £40bn and taken the lives of more than 450 British soldiers, but he said the future commitment would have only been for 750 soldiers as part of a 10,000-strong Nato force, assisting 400,000 Afghan security forces.
He contrasted the decision in Afghanistan to post-war Germany, where UK troops were only withdrawn in 1991. "Endurance matters, staying matters, being an ally matters," Mr Tugendhat said.
"It now looks like 20 years later, 9/11 will be the anniversary of the Taliban taking complete control of the whole of Afghanistan, something they didn't achieve 20 years ago.
"That's because we have undermined civil institutions and we have left the place weaker."

For shame!

J

[Ozyhibby]

There isn't really such a thing as "Afghans", that's basically the root of their problems. It's yet another ****ed up set of post-Imperial lines on a map encompassing various rival ethnicities with a history of conflict. See also: Iraq, Syria, Yugoslavia, most of Africa, Ireland ...

Breaking it up might have been a better option then?


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[He's here!]

I’m not disagreeing with you. What the UK have done is a complete disgrace. We need to stop getting involved in the first place. Two defeats in 20 years hopefully will hopefully bring about some reluctance in future. Besides, the army have food to deliver in the UK now. A job they are far more suited for. Glorified deliveroo drivers.
My main point is that after 20 years, the Afghans are not able to build up enough strength to take on their fellow afghans to fight for the life they want then it was never going to happen anyway.


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That's pretty crass, as anyone who has served or who has relatives or friends in the armed forces will tell you. I don't, but I did have the privilege of working alongside soldiers from the Black Watch regiment (not sure if they still get to call themselves that) and members of the Royal Navy on an overseas project a number of years ago and I remain in awe of their multi-skilled repertoire. The training they receive is extraordinary.

[SChibs]

Oh it was about preventing Afghanistan becoming a haven for terror. That was a laudable reason. I’m just confused as to why it’s not a reason now.

I agree, the Afghan people had no choice in this matter. It was about defending ourselves by taking away the safe haven for International Terror. They (the moderate Afghans) were clearly incapable of defeating the Taliaban alone. Training does nothing if you don’t have the equipment or the support to use them. When a armoured personnel carrier breaks the Afghans pass it to the Americans and contractors to repair. That isn’t there any more, there’s no support infrastructure.

J

It's not even about the 'war on terror'. That's just a term used to justify political invasions and wars. If it was truly about preventing terror then why don't the UK and USA stop selling arms to Saudi who pass them on to the likes of ISIS.

[Ozyhibby]

It's not even about the 'war on terror'. That's just a term used to justify political invasions and wars. If it was truly about preventing terror then why don't the UK and USA stop selling arms to Saudi who pass them on to the likes of ISIS.

When it comes to the Middle East, I’m not sure we are the good guys?


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[SChibs]

When it comes to the Middle East, I’m not sure we are the good guys?


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How can you blame the kids of Iraq, Syria, etc for hating the West and America when they know multiple people killed by their airstrikes.


I don't really know if there is a solution to these brutal regimes to be honest. Yes Gaddafi killed many people but he had Libya going okay. Look at it now? Just as many people are dying, more are probably in poverty and there's slaves sold in the street. Going in and killing the evil dictator is the easy bit but there needs to be a plan or you'll end up with just another brutal regime in its place.

[Ozyhibby]

Sounds like Americans are about to reverse the withdrawal.


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[EI255]

Sounds like Americans are about to reverse the withdrawal.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSeriously doubt that.

Congress voted so.



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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210815/f548173de0412b1e58372a278fe294ef.jpg

That will be that then. Don’t worry, it won’t be long until they are back wanting to invade some other poor country and telling us, this time it will be different.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210815/f548173de0412b1e58372a278fe294ef.jpg

That will be that then. Don’t worry, it won’t be long until they are back wanting to invade some other poor country and telling us, this time it will be different.


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Sometimes it needs done but should be done by perhaps not the UN but similar. Iraq was brutal and about oil but I understand the US felt aggrieved with taliban after 9/11.

Serbia, Rwanda, isis ect shows you still need a military even if its in coalition

[Ozyhibby]

Sometimes it needs done but should be done by perhaps not the UN but similar. Iraq was brutal and about oil but I understand the US felt aggrieved with taliban after 9/11.

Serbia, Rwanda, isis ect shows you still need a military even if its in coalition

Nice idea but we are not capable of getting the job done.


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[Mon Dieu4]

Sometimes it needs done but should be done by perhaps not the UN but similar. Iraq was brutal and about oil but I understand the US felt aggrieved with taliban after 9/11.

Serbia, Rwanda, isis ect shows you still need a military even if its in coalition

Yep, that's where I'm at with it all too, Whilest it isn't their fault as they didn't start the war in the first place, it was the US and UK, this is exactly what the United Nations should be for, I appreciate if it went to a vote then the likes of Russia and China probably wouldn't be for it but a nominal UN peace keeping force could have kept things in check imo

[Smartie]

Nice idea but we are not capable of getting the job done.


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I'm not sure we're even capable of defining what "the job" actually is, which is the whole problem.

In the case of situations like those in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or practically anywhere in that part of the world I actually have sympathy for Western Leaders before they do anything, as action and inaction are equally incorrect and unappealing. After that I can just join in with everyone else in giving them a kicking, whatever they choose to do or not do, as it inevitably goes some variation on pear-shaped.

[Since90+2]

Sounds like Americans are about to reverse the withdrawal.


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It's too late now anyway without serious loss of life to American troops. It's one thing holding the territory they had up to a few weeks ago but it's another thing entirely to go in and retake it by force from the Taliban.

[Ozyhibby]

It's too late now anyway without serious loss of life to American troops. It's one thing holding the territory they had up to a few weeks ago but it's another thing entirely to go in and retake it by force from the Taliban.

That was just one story going about last night, no chance they are going back now. It’s just about evacuation now.


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[SChibs]

Sometimes it needs done but should be done by perhaps not the UN but similar. Iraq was brutal and about oil but I understand the US felt aggrieved with taliban after 9/11.

Serbia, Rwanda, isis ect shows you still need a military even if its in coalition

The Taliban condemned 9/11.

[Stairway 2 7]

The Taliban condemned 9/11.

Before they were about to get the rightful blame and denied involvement of bin laden. Although he bragged about it a few weeks later when most of the taliban top brass jumped to Pakistan via the caves

Baltimore Sun
LOG IN

ADVERTISEMENT
Taliban leaders condemn attack
FROM WIRE REPORTS
SEP 12, 2001 AT 3:00 AM


KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan's Taliban rulers condemned the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington yesterday, and took pains to insist that Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi who has lived here since 1996, could not be responsible for them.

Taliban supreme leader Mullah Mohammad Omar said the attacks were too complex to have been organized by bin Laden from Afghanistan. A statement by Omar, reported by CNN, said because Afghanistan is a poor country, it could not be involved in such a complicated act.

[CloudSquall]

President Ghani and his vice president have fled Afghanistan leaving behind the population to face the Taliban themselves.


Quite astonishing how badly the Afghan state was prepared for an eventual Taliban offensive.


Some very interesting graphs and photos on the BBC live update page:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-58219963

[neil7908]

President Ghani and his vice president have fled Afghanistan leaving behind the population to face the Taliban themselves.


Quite astonishing how badly the Afghan state was prepared for an eventual Taliban offensive.


Some very interesting graphs and photos on the BBC live update page:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-58219963

As others have said, I don't envy any politician having to decide what to do in a situation like this that is not of their making.

But this is an absolute disaster for the West. We've been in the country for 20 years now, and the US President said this a month ago:

"But the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely."

That is a spectacular failure of intelligence. They have spent untold billions, thousands of their own dead and however many civilians, must have a huge intelligence operation in the country and they have been caught completely off guard.

There are no easy answers here but I think it highlights that we shouldn't be there.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210815/aeb761ab23cb57b0b0086199952ec7bd.jpg

Appalling.


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[Callum_62]

The US and UK should be ashamed of themselves

Ofcourse they will say its unfortunate and invade some other middle Eastern country soon.

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[Hibrandenburg]

President Ghani and his vice president have fled Afghanistan leaving behind the population to face the Taliban themselves.


Quite astonishing how badly the Afghan state was prepared for an eventual Taliban offensive.


Some very interesting graphs and photos on the BBC live update page:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-58219963

The military intelligence would have been well aware about the situation on the ground, they might have underestimated how swiftly it would all unfold but they will have known they were throwing the Afghan people to the dogs.

What an utter cluster**** the whole campaign has been, I'm so glad I never had to serve there and feel absolutely gutted for former colleagues who thought they were actually making a positive difference there but will now be asking themselves what the point was.

The message that this sends to the rest of the world if they didn't already know it, is that the west is not to be trusted. Afghanistan will now return to the middle ages.

[Ozyhibby]

The US and UK should be ashamed of themselves

Ofcourse they will say its unfortunate and invade some other middle Eastern country soon.

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Keep a close eye on Lebanon. It’s about to erupt. I’m sure that when we invade there it will be different this time though.


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[Pretty Boy]

My fiancé's cousin received a Military Cross for his service in Afghanistan. One of his men was shot in the side of the head in an ambush and he broke cover to administer aid, when it became obvious the guy was beyond help he recovered his body and evacuated the remaining men to safety. He really struggled with PTSD in the years since. I wonder how he, and thousands of other soldiers and civilians, feel at the moment?

One of the big issues is the lack of planning for post invasion. Winning a nominal military victory is relative easy, maintaining a peace and and keeping resistance in check is the hard part. I remember watching a documentary on one of the big anniversaries of the Iraq invasion. A couple of people who had been brought in as expert advisors to the Blair Govt, one was an Islamic Studies Professor and the other specialised in Middle Eastern studies, said they were astounded by Blair's ignorance of the sectarian problems that would arise in a post war Iraq, they went as far as to suggest some of the ignorance was wilful as the desire for war was so strong. They said one meeting ended with Blair seeking confirmation from them that they agreed Saddam Hussein is a 'bad guy'.

I really don't know what the answer is when it comes to intervention. There are undoubtedly instances in which it has been a success (the ovation the England national team got in Kosovo for example) but so many places are a minefield of ethnic, religious and tribal tensions that can't be resolved through air strikes and propped up governments.

[hibsbollah]

President Ghani and his vice president have fled Afghanistan leaving behind the population to face the Taliban themselves.


Quite astonishing how badly the Afghan state was prepared for an eventual Taliban offensive.


Some very interesting graphs and photos on the BBC live update page:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-58219963

Why is it astonishing? You are essentially creating a state from nothing. Western 'liberal democracies' have had hundreds of years of civil service, law, politicians, journalism, civil society, unions, stable military and police, separation of church and state, the whole thing. (Not to mention the Enlightenment, which has passed Afghanistan by).

It just allows the British Empire supremacist tropes about 'Africans/Afghans/Indians being unable to run their own affairs' to get oxygen. Its basically what im seeing when i watch the BBC coverage anyway.

[ronaldo7]

Why is it astonishing? You are essentially creating a state from nothing. Western 'liberal democracies' have had hundreds of years of civil service, law, politicians, journalism, civil society, unions, stable military and police, separation of church and state, the whole thing. (Not to mention the Enlightenment, which has passed Afghanistan by).

It just allows the British Empire supremacist tropes about 'Africans/Afghans/Indians being unable to run their own affairs' to get oxygen. Its basically what im seeing when i watch the BBC coverage anyway.

Yup, unfortunately they start this new state from the top and it doesn't have any foundations. Only those benefiting from the west's money buys into it. It's as hollow as an Easter egg

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

When Dominic Raab gets the important things done like his holiday washing and handing out the duty free fags and whisky, if his first words aren't him offering his resignation then the man has no shame.

[Stairway 2 7]

Gabriel Milland
@gabrielmilland
All those who spent the years since Bosnia saying that liberal interventionism is expensive, messy and even counter-productive may be about to get schooled in how appalling its absence is.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/asia/2021/08/diary-witnessing-last-days-ashraf-ghanis-afghanistan
he dropped it into our conversation that the Taliban, while holding control over a district in a remote valley, had demanded lists of all the girls and women, and said they’d be married off to young insurgent gunmen



Sonali Dhawan
@SonaliDhawan_
1h
Taliban invaded the homes of at least two female journalists in Kabul today. One managed to escape, one is unreachable.

[He's here!]

John Simpson's article highlights the many benefits which resulted from Western intervention to drive out the Taliban. It's Biden's determination to stick with the sudden withdrawal that has been the catalyst for what seems likely to be a return to the dark ages:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-58224559

[The Baldmans Comb]

The English and the Americans never understood that in the minds of many people who live in Afgahastan that it was actually always the Taliban who had the grass roots popular support.

75,000 fighters have just taken over a complete country of 30 million people in a matter of weeks and barely fired a shot as the corrupt opposition elite crumbled and cut deals to save themselves as they knew this all along.

Give it 5 to 10 years though and the English and Americans will find another country to invade as its rooted in their DNA and thousands more brave soldiers will be deid and maimed for absolutely and completely nothing.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i feel for the poor women who at least were able to finally have education, human rights, allowed to leave a house without having a permit, young girls as young as 12 now finding themselves abused/married to dirty perverted terrorists, one woman getting her eyes gouged out whilst the sick terrorist *******s watched and cheered on, they had some type of freedom and now they have to cower in fear, no surprise the chinese government want to work with the terrorists, prime clown choosing to have his wee jokey photoshoots with athletes yesterday afternoon instead of concentrating on getting translators out before they get hanged, sickening

Raab saying the world must tell the Taliban 'the violence must end and human rights must be protected' oh ok, hopefully they listen to him huh


it's just horrible what will happen there

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/saadmohseni/status/1427000691407654914?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1427000691407654914%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive% 2Fworld-asia-58219963


Video showing the rush and chaos at Kabul airport.

Can't imagine how it would feel in that situation especially for women and those with daughters who are likely to lose all rights that had been gained in the past 20 years.

At least Raab and co can send some "tough" tweets that will show the Taliban just how much we mean business.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/rafaeldemelchor/status/1427142227764162560?s=21


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[Killiehibbie]

i feel for the poor women who at least were able to finally have education, human rights, allowed to leave a house without having a permit, young girls as young as 12 now finding themselves abused/married to dirty perverted terrorists, one woman getting her eyes gouged out whilst the sick terrorist *******s watched and cheered on, they had some type of freedom and now they have to cower in fear, no surprise the chinese government want to work with the terrorists, prime clown choosing to have his wee jokey photoshoots with athletes yesterday afternoon instead of concentrating on getting translators out before they get hanged, sickening

Raab saying the world must tell the Taliban 'the violence must end and human rights must be protected' oh ok, hopefully they listen to him huh


it's just horrible what will happen there
Maybe the Chinese want to Re-educate them.

[Scorrie]

Scenes in Kabul remind me of the last days of Saigon. Helicopters taking people out and mass panic at the airport.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe the Chinese want to Re-educate them.

Given how the last twenty years have gone, the UK will be laughed at if it starts lecturing others on morals.


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[Killiehibbie]

Given how the last twenty years have gone, the UK will be laughed at if it starts lecturing others on morals.


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They have centres already open for this purpose and I'm sure they could encourage attendance.

[hibsbollah]

The English and the Americans never understood that in the minds of many people who live in Afgahastan that it was actually always the Taliban who had the grass roots popular support.

75,000 fighters have just taken over a complete country of 30 million people in a matter of weeks and barely fired a shot as the corrupt opposition elite crumbled and cut deals to save themselves as they knew this all along.

Give it 5 to 10 years though and the English and Americans will find another country to invade as its rooted in their DNA and thousands more brave soldiers will be deid and maimed for absolutely and completely nothing.

The whole invasion was a process of America lashing out post 9/11 at a target, any target. It couldn’t be where the attackers actually came from, so it had to be somewhere else. George Bush said as much at the time. After the inevitable thousands of dead civilians, some things did change and improve and the British in Kandahar I’m sure had the best of intentions and probably helped lots of individual Afghans. But as has been said already the collapse is completely predictable because the state has no pedigree. And it’s worth making the point that if all that was propping up the previous regime was allied forces and corruption, then the allied forces are at least complicit in the corruption, otherwise how could the relationship have continued for 20 years?

[Crunchie]

Scenes in Kabul remind me of the last days of Saigon. Helicopters taking people out and mass panic at the airport.
And not a woman or child in sight despite them being the most vulnerable.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/tolonews/status/1427204278695997442?s=21


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[lord bunberry]

i feel for the poor women who at least were able to finally have education, human rights, allowed to leave a house without having a permit, young girls as young as 12 now finding themselves abused/married to dirty perverted terrorists, one woman getting her eyes gouged out whilst the sick terrorist *******s watched and cheered on, they had some type of freedom and now they have to cower in fear, no surprise the chinese government want to work with the terrorists, prime clown choosing to have his wee jokey photoshoots with athletes yesterday afternoon instead of concentrating on getting translators out before they get hanged, sickening

Raab saying the world must tell the Taliban 'the violence must end and human rights must be protected' oh ok, hopefully they listen to him huh


it's just horrible what will happen there
I couldn’t agree more. It’s absolutely sickening to think what will happen to these poor young women and girls. As a father of young girl I find it heartbreaking and almost too difficult to watch the scenes on the news.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I couldn’t agree more. It’s absolutely sickening to think what will happen to these poor young women and girls. As a father of young girl I find it heartbreaking and almost too difficult to watch the scenes on the news.


i was watching a small video clip earlier showing a US plane starting to take off with dozens clinging on to the plane, plane takes off and one falls off approx 100 ft then another several hundred feet, absolutely horrific the desperation just to live, heart breaking

[lord bunberry]

i was watching a small video clip earlier showing a US plane starting to take off with dozens clinging on to the plane, plane takes off and one falls off approx 100 ft then another several hundred feet, absolutely horrific the desperation just to live, heart breaking
The troops leaving and completely abandoning the civilians to these savages should be seen as a war crime. We created this mess and we should’ve stuck around long enough to ensure safe passage to anyone who wanted to leave. Those scenes at the airport were horrific, watching people literally fighting for their lives because they had the temerity to believe the lies they were spun by the west. Female journalists being rounded up as well as female politicians.
The withdrawal of troops should reversed in Kabul immediately.

[Ozyhibby]

The troops leaving and completely abandoning the civilians to these savages should be seen as a war crime. We created this mess and we should’ve stuck around long enough to ensure safe passage to anyone who wanted to leave. Those scenes at the airport were horrific, watching people literally fighting for their lives because they had the temerity to believe the lies they were spun by the west. Female journalists being rounded up as well as female politicians.
The withdrawal of troops should reversed in Kabul immediately.

Way too late now. Troops won’t be going back. The UK has betrayed its allies once again.
Taliban almost mocking us now as they have said anyone who wants to leave can do so, knowing fine well that the UK don’t want them and won’t take them.


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[lord bunberry]

Way too late now. Troops won’t be going back. The UK has betrayed its allies once again.
Taliban almost mocking us now as they have said anyone who wants to leave can do so, knowing fine well that the UK don’t want them and won’t take them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I see that parliament has been recalled on Wednesday so we might hear something then, but I suspect all we’ll hear is strong condemnation and zero action. What an absolute mess.

[CloudSquall]

Uzbekistan has said that it has shot down an Afghan jet and also stopped 84 Afghan soldiers were also stopped from crossing the border.


A big question now has to be asked of what will have to the equipment that was showered on the Afghan military, the BBC is already reporting that the Taliban has started to sell it off to the highest bidders around the world to raise funds.

[Ozyhibby]

Uzbekistan has said that it has shot down an Afghan jet and also stopped 84 Afghan soldiers were also stopped from crossing the border.


A big question now has to be asked of what will have to the equipment that was showered on the Afghan military, the BBC is already reporting that the Taliban has started to sell it off to the highest bidders around the world to raise funds.

It will most likely be sold as the Taliban won’t be able to maintain it themselves.


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[LeithMike]

This has shades of the first gulf war when George H Bush called on Iraqi citizens to rise up against Saddam and then swiftly abandoned them once Kuwait was liberated leaving them to face the wrath of Saddam.

This has been terribly handled by the western democracies albeit its difficult to see how there is any permanent solution which does not come at a huge cost.



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[LeithMike]

I’m not disagreeing with you. What the UK have done is a complete disgrace. We need to stop getting involved in the first place. Two defeats in 20 years hopefully will hopefully bring about some reluctance in future. Besides, the army have food to deliver in the UK now. A job they are far more suited for. Glorified deliveroo drivers.
My main point is that after 20 years, the Afghans are not able to build up enough strength to take on their fellow afghans to fight for the life they want then it was never going to happen anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf the USA/UK hadn't intervened in the first place then we would just have been turning a blind eye to the same situation that Afghanistan is facing now. That can't be right either.

It's a real shame that the recent western interventions in the middle east/asia have been predicated by protecting oil resources and preventing terrorist attacks in the west. It's probably now made intervention on humanitarian grounds impossible going forward. The intervention in Kosovo/Bosnia showed that it could work but we've now alienated most of the world.

Blair's new world order was probably the right idea but doomed to failure because it was for the wrong reasons and due to the self-interest of the west and our politicians (and dare I say citizens).

Find the comments on the military a bit off. They have made huge sacrifices and who knows when we'll need them next. With the WWII generation dieing out you suspect the lessons from war are being lost.


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[Since90+2]

The UK/US turn a blind eye to lots of things round the world. We can't go around policing the world and just expecting other countries to adopt our way of life because we want to.

This was always going to happen in Afghanistan as soon as we left, it happened in Iraq and it will happen if we decide to invade somewhere like Lebanon.

It's almost as if invading other countries, with all the death, destruction and resentment that causes, is never the correct answer.

[Smartie]

If the USA/UK hadn't intervened in the first place then we would just have been turning a blind eye to the same situation that Afghanistan is facing now. That can't be right either.

It's a real shame that the recent western interventions in the middle east/asia have been predicated by protecting oil resources and preventing terrorist attacks in the west. It's probably now made intervention on humanitarian grounds impossible going forward. The intervention in Kosovo/Bosnia showed that it could work but we've now alienated most of the world.

Blair's new world order was probably the right idea but doomed to failure because it was for the wrong reasons and due to the self-interest of the west and our politicians (and dare I say citizens).

Find the comments on the military a bit off. They have made huge sacrifices and who knows when we'll need them next. With the WWII generation dieing out you suspect the lessons from war are being lost.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I find that I'm having a surprising amount of sympathy for the UK and US military (considering some of my political beliefs) and a growing contempt for our politicians and the absolute bell ends who see fit to elect them.

We shouldn't really be in a position where the choice for Prime Minister is between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson and the leader of the free world is either Hilary Clinton, Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

The Afghanistan situation is an awful one where it is almost impossible to do the right thing. Those situations will probably end up turning out a bit better though when we do a better job a bit closer to home.

[heretoday]

The UK/US turn a blind eye to lots of things round the world. We can't go around policing the world and just expecting other countries to adopt our way of life because we want to.

This was always going to happen in Afghanistan as soon as we left, it happened in Iraq and it will happen if we decide to invade somewhere like Lebanon.

It's almost as if invading other countries, with all the death, destruction and resentment that causes, is never the correct answer.

Sadly, that appears to be the case. If the Afghan project had never taken place, could things in that country possibly be worse than they are now?

For women and girls to have the chance of an education and independence only to have it snatched away by a bunch of cold-eyed thugs is surely worse than anything.

[CapitalGreen]

And not a woman or child in sight despite them being the most vulnerable.

There’s lots of woman and children at the airport too actually but don’t let that stop you spreading the anti-Islamic trope that all those escaping conflict in the Middle East are young men abandoning the vulnerable.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E86OsB8XsAAQyBq?format=jpg&name=medium

[Ozyhibby]

If the USA/UK hadn't intervened in the first place then we would just have been turning a blind eye to the same situation that Afghanistan is facing now. That can't be right either.

It's a real shame that the recent western interventions in the middle east/asia have been predicated by protecting oil resources and preventing terrorist attacks in the west. It's probably now made intervention on humanitarian grounds impossible going forward. The intervention in Kosovo/Bosnia showed that it could work but we've now alienated most of the world.

Blair's new world order was probably the right idea but doomed to failure because it was for the wrong reasons and due to the self-interest of the west and our politicians (and dare I say citizens).

Find the comments on the military a bit off. They have made huge sacrifices and who knows when we'll need them next. With the WWII generation dieing out you suspect the lessons from war are being lost.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Surely questions need asked of a military who have spent the last 20 years telling everyone what a great job they were doing training up the Afghan army? I would think our politicians would be a little bit curious as to what happened to the billions spent on that little exercise?
Fact is, our military are consistently getting their arse handed to them and there appears to be no accountability.
We’ll be back here at some point in the not to distant future with London politicians telling us we need to invade this country or that, and that this time it will be different. And guess what, the invasion will happen whether we like it or not.


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[Ozyhibby]

There’s lots of woman and children at the airport too actually but don’t let that stop you spreading the anti-Islamic trope that all those escaping conflict in the Middle East are young men abandoning the vulnerable.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E86OsB8XsAAQyBq?format=jpg&name=medium

To be fair to Crunchie, they never showed that image on GB news.[emoji6]


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[Hibrandenburg]

There’s lots of woman and children at the airport too actually but don’t let that stop you spreading the anti-Islamic trope that all those escaping conflict in the Middle East are young men abandoning the vulnerable.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E86OsB8XsAAQyBq?format=jpg&name=medium

It's completely odious that the right wing are already making political meal out of a developing situation that hasn't played out yet where we're at least partly to blame. Utterly deplorable if not entirely unexpected.

[Hibrandenburg]

Surely questions need asked of a military who have spent the last 20 years telling everyone what a great job they were doing training up the Afghan army? I would think our politicians would be a little bit curious as to what happened to the billions spent on that little exercise?
Fact is, our military are consistently getting their arse handed to them and there appears to be no accountability.
We’ll be back here at some point in the not to distant future with London politicians telling us we need to invade this country or that, and that this time it will be different. And guess what, the invasion will happen whether we like it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can have the best trained and equipped army in the world but if their hearts not in it then they'll be off at the sound of a starting pistol. The Afghan army's collapse is a political rather than a military failure.

[Since90+2]

Surely questions need asked of a military who have spent the last 20 years telling everyone what a great job they were doing training up the Afghan army? I would think our politicians would be a little bit curious as to what happened to the billions spent on that little exercise?
Fact is, our military are consistently getting their arse handed to them and there appears to be no accountability.
We’ll be back here at some point in the not to distant future with London politicians telling us we need to invade this country or that, and that this time it will be different. And guess what, the invasion will happen whether we like it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is the British military "consistently getting their arse handed to them"? The Taliban advance has took place when the have withdrawn not when they were involved militarily.

It is a separate point altogether but the British army are amongst the best in the world.

[Since90+2]

You can have the best trained and equipped army in the world but if their hearts not in it then they'll be off at the sound of a starting pistol. The Afghan army's collapse is a political rather than a military failure.

Exactly this.

[Stairway 2 7]

Politics For All
BREAKING: A German Defense Ministry spokesperson on its responsibility to get local Afghan support staff and translators out of the country: "It's not like we forced them to cooperate with us."

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/zurueckgelassene-ortskraefte-einem-bundeswehr-dolmetscher-droht-der-tod-17484162.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

[He's here!]

Is the British military "consistently getting their arse handed to them"? The Taliban advance has took place when the have withdrawn not when they were involved militarily.

It is a separate point altogether but the British army are amongst the best in the world.

Indeed. The allied expulsion of the Taliban and the transformation of the country over the last 20 years in terms of commercial development, living standards, women's rights etc is due in no small measure to the stability established by our armed forces. Sure, there have been plenty of wrong turns when it comes to Afghan governments and western political manoeuvres but that's not down to the allied forces.

As things stand Biden's looking like the one who's going to take the bulk of the flak as his needlessly hasty and comprehensive withdrawal looks as if it could have paved the way for an almighty humanitarian crisis.

[Stairway 2 7]

You can have the best trained and equipped army in the world but if their hearts not in it then they'll be off at the sound of a starting pistol. The Afghan army's collapse is a political rather than a military failure.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-surge-exposes-failure-us-efforts-build-afghan-army-2021-08-15/

Good article agreeing with you here

[Hibrandenburg]

Politics For All
BREAKING: A German Defense Ministry spokesperson on its responsibility to get local Afghan support staff and translators out of the country: "It's not like we forced them to cooperate with us."

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/zurueckgelassene-ortskraefte-einem-bundeswehr-dolmetscher-droht-der-tod-17484162.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Most of the article is behind a pay wall and that what's readable doesn't relate to what you say. I'll see if I can find another link.

[Stairway 2 7]

Indeed. The allied expulsion of the Taliban and the transformation of the country over the last 20 years in terms of commercial development, living standards, women's rights etc is due in no small measure to the stability established by our armed forces. Sure, there have been plenty of wrong turns when it comes to Afghan governments and western political manoeuvres but that's not down to the allied forces.

As things stand Biden's looking like the one who's going to take the bulk of the flak as his needlessly hasty and comprehensive withdrawal looks as if it could have paved the way for an almighty humanitarian crisis.

Should have been an international force to keep these backwards *******s out. The horror of you daughter getting taken from your home is unimaginable. Still not forgiven them for destroying ancient statues like the Buddhas of Bamiyan

[Stairway 2 7]

Most of the article is behind a pay wall and that what's readable doesn't relate to what you say. I'll see if I can find another link.

It's been widely reported was in the spectators nine worst taliban responses to talibans fall along with Dominic rabb and Yanis Varoufakis insensitive take
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-9-worst-responses-to-afghanistan-s-fall/amp


Section is here
https://mobile.twitter.com/matt_meeta/status/1426855637254873096

[Ozyhibby]

You can have the best trained and equipped army in the world but if their hearts not in it then they'll be off at the sound of a starting pistol. The Afghan army's collapse is a political rather than a military failure.

Surely our wonderful military would have communicated this rather than the constant good news reports on their progress?


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[Ozyhibby]

Is the British military "consistently getting their arse handed to them"? The Taliban advance has took place when the have withdrawn not when they were involved militarily.

It is a separate point altogether but the British army are amongst the best in the world.

Helmand and Basra?


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[Pretty Boy]

There's a lifetime to pore over what went wrong in Afghanistan.

For now the focus should be on offering refuge and safe haven to those who have no desire to rewind 2 decades and more. All the wagging fingers and point scoring really means nothing, it's about practical help in the short term.

If the means throwing the doors of Europe open to those who wish to flee then so be it imo.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's been widely reported was in the spectators nine worst taliban responses to talibans fall along with Dominic rabb and Yanis Varoufakis insensitive take
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-9-worst-responses-to-afghanistan-s-fall/amp


Section is here
https://mobile.twitter.com/matt_meeta/status/1426855637254873096

From what I can find the Quote from the German defence official is from an earlier report on how the Bundeswehr were encouraging local Afghans to work for them and detailing pay and finacial benefits used to recruit them. The statement you mention is a tweeted reply to that article. Strangely the quote is in English from a user called Dimal:

"Not like they volunteered. it was their job, they got paid for it. Was it part of contract for employer to take them out of the country once job is finished ? Doubt it".

[Hibrandenburg]

Should have been an international force to keep these backwards *******s out. The horror of you daughter getting taken from your home is unimaginable. Still not forgiven them for destroying ancient statues like the Buddhas of Bamiyan

:agree: This is a failure from almost the entire western nations.

[Pretty Boy]

From what I can find the Quote from the German defence official is from an earlier report on how the Bundeswehr were encouraging local Afghans to work for them and detailing pay and finacial benefits used to recruit them. The statement you mention is a tweeted reply to that article. Strangely the quote is in English from a user called Dimal:

"Not like they volunteered. it was their job, they got paid for it. Was it part of contract for employer to take them out of the country once job is finished ? Doubt it".

That quote seems a pretty heartless take on things to me, whoever said it could do with a lesson in empathy.

'Thanks for your 5/10/15/20 years service but it was just a job. You are potentially now in grave danger as a collaborator with the recently departed occupying force but you got your salary every months so you're not our problem.

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely our wonderful military would have communicated this rather than the constant good news reports on their progress?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-surge-exposes-failure-us-efforts-build-afghan-army-2021-08-15/

Honestly read this peace on why they collapsed so quickly. They pretty much gave up when they had no support, moral collapsed.

[Hibrandenburg]

Surely our wonderful military would have communicated this rather than the constant good news reports on their progress?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your hate for the military is blazingly obvious, but surely even you can understand that military prowess and allegiance and motivation different things entirely.

[Ozyhibby]

Your hate for the military is blazingly obvious, but surely even you can understand that military prowess and allegiance and motivation different things entirely.

It’s not hate. You would think after 20 years on the ground the military would have had an idea that the allegiance and motivation were not there?
Just because I don’t give the military a free pass doesn’t mean I hate them. There are massive questions that need asked of them. Trotting out the ‘best trained in the world’ line doesn’t cut it for me.


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[Ozyhibby]

There's a lifetime to pore over what went wrong in Afghanistan.

For now the focus should be on offering refuge and safe haven to those who have no desire to rewind 2 decades and more. All the wagging fingers and point scoring really means nothing, it's about practical help in the short term.

If the means throwing the doors of Europe open to those who wish to flee then so be it imo.

Totally agree. Every single person who helped any UK forces in any capacity needs to be offered passage to the UK along with their family immediately. No ifs or buts.
Will it happen? No chance. The UK govt has zero morals at all. They will be left to die.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It’s not hate. You would think after 20 years on the ground the military would have had an idea that the allegiance and motivation were not there?
Just because I don’t give the military a free pass doesn’t mean I hate them. There are massive questions that need asked of them. Trotting out the ‘best trained in the world’ line doesn’t cut it for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's one of the poorest countries in the world in the article it says the afghan army was simply a job for many

[Since90+2]

Helmand and Basra?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes? You'll need to explain to me how they had their ***** handed to them in both of those operations.

[Pretty Boy]

It's one of the poorest countries in the world in the article it says the afghan army was simply a job for many

I think that's true for many people in any army.

I know a few boys who joined the army after leaving school. None of them were particularly hawkish or jingoistic. They were just guys who weren't academically minded, didn't know what they wanted to do and saw a job at 16 and maybe the chance to learn a trade and/or some transferable skills further down the line.

Stats show that people enlisting in the army from the bottom are still predominantly drawn from the poorest demographics and the most deprived areas. 'Conscription by deprivation' is a buzz phrase sometimes used I believe.

[Hibrandenburg]

That quote seems a pretty heartless take on things to me, whoever said it could do with a lesson in empathy.

'Thanks for your 5/10/15/20 years service but it was just a job. You are potentially now in grave danger as a collaborator with the recently departed occupying force but you got your salary every months so you're not our problem.

Yep, unfortunately the Internet is full of trolls who get off on making odious statements. But it's probably worse for a major media outlet to twist the two separate quotes to make it sound like it came from the German Defence Department.

[CloudSquall]

It's been widely reported was in the spectators nine worst taliban responses to talibans fall along with Dominic rabb and Yanis Varoufakis insensitive take
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-9-worst-responses-to-afghanistan-s-fall/amp



Section is here
https://mobile.twitter.com/matt_meeta/status/1426855637254873096

Almost cringed myself into convulsions with Yanis' "Hang in there sisters!" line

[Pretty Boy]

Yep, unfortunately the Internet is full of trolls who get off on making odious statements. But it's probably worse for a major media outlet to twist the two separate quotes to make it sound like it came from the German Defence Department.

Yep, shameful stuff all round.

[degenerated]

I think that's true for many people in any army.

I know a few boys who joined the army after leaving school. None of them were particularly hawkish or jingoistic. They were just guys who weren't academically minded, didn't know what they wanted to do and saw a job at 16 and maybe the chance to learn a trade and/or some transferable skills further down the line.

Stats show that people enlisting in the army from the bottom are still predominantly drawn from the poorest demographics and the most deprived areas. 'Conscription by deprivation' is a buzz phrase sometimes used I believe.

Isn't it the case that the army actively and disproportionately targets those demographics for recruitment, it was flagged up in the papers a few years back

[Hibrandenburg]

I think that's true for many people in any army.

I know a few boys who joined the army after leaving school. None of them were particularly hawkish or jingoistic. They were just guys who weren't academically minded, didn't know what they wanted to do and saw a job at 16 and maybe the chance to learn a trade and/or some transferable skills further down the line.

Stats show that people enlisting in the army from the bottom are still predominantly drawn from the poorest demographics and the most deprived areas. 'Conscription by deprivation' is a buzz phrase sometimes used I believe.

That's probably all very true, but the difference between those guys you mention and your average Afghan soldier is that most people who join the British Army can at least identify with the country they represent.

[Hibrandenburg]

It’s not hate. You would think after 20 years on the ground the military would have had an idea that the allegiance and motivation were not there?
Just because I don’t give the military a free pass doesn’t mean I hate them. There are massive questions that need asked of them. Trotting out the ‘best trained in the world’ line doesn’t cut it for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The military brass will tell you what the government want them to tell you. The rank and file will tell you that the Taliban are a fierce enemy and Private Afghan is an uninterested journey man with no allegiance to anyone bar themselves and their families. They have no understanding of a nation state but at least understand an Islamic one.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Biden might have written his legacy before his Presidency has started.

[hibsbollah]

Biden might have written his legacy before his Presidency has started.

Trump signed the policy off. Biden hasn’t overturned it, but both presidents have followed a very similar isolationist agenda, at least where Afghanistan is concerned. Anyone who is blaming Biden for being the architect of the policy is lying to you.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/235064344_569658454167767_2509448636410046374_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=093ORtPwxvYAX92V8zT&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=874fb99835b995b669d127e505d11f82&oe=6140C4FD

[The dalmeny]

Is the British military "consistently getting their arse handed to them"? The Taliban advance has took place when the have withdrawn not when they were involved militarily.

It is a separate point altogether but the British army are amongst the best in the world.

Perhaps the British soldier is more appropriate

[ronaldo7]

Indeed. The allied expulsion of the Taliban and the transformation of the country over the last 20 years in terms of commercial development, living standards, women's rights etc is due in no small measure to the stability established by our armed forces. Sure, there have been plenty of wrong turns when it comes to Afghan governments and western political manoeuvres but that's not down to the allied forces.

As things stand Biden's looking like the one who's going to take the bulk of the flak as his needlessly hasty and comprehensive withdrawal looks as if it could have paved the way for an almighty humanitarian crisis.

The Taliban knew the Americans couldn't stay forever. Time was always on their side. They moved into the shadows and over the border to Pakistan, whilst watching and waiting, biding their time. The US/UK cash was frittered away to people who weren't going to stand and fight, and the Taliban knew it.

The stability you speak of was actually a house of cards.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Trump signed the policy off. Biden hasn’t overturned it, but both presidents have followed a very similar isolationist agenda, at least where Afghanistan is concerned. Anyone who is blaming Biden for being the architect of the policy is lying to you.

He didn't need to execute it though.

[Smartie]

The Taliban knew the Americans couldn't stay forever. Time was always on their side. They moved into the shadows and over the border to Pakistan, whilst watching and waiting, biding their time. The US/UK cash was frittered away to people who weren't going to stand and fight, and the Taliban knew it.

The stability you speak of was actually a house of cards.

20 years was never going to be enough there though.

Worth thinking about when considering getting involved in future conflicts - it will require a shed load of cash and at least 2 or 3 generations for it to be any sort of a success. You’re then at the mercy of Trumpism or the like coming along and tearing up all the progress.

If you’re not prepared to do that then you stay out, and face whatever consequences may come your way from that instead.

[Smartie]

Trump signed the policy off. Biden hasn’t overturned it, but both presidents have followed a very similar isolationist agenda, at least where Afghanistan is concerned. Anyone who is blaming Biden for being the architect of the policy is lying to you.

Whilst I don’t disagree with any of this, Biden and those who support him need to accept his own administration’s role in all this, and it isn’t a great one.

[Future17]

Trump signed the policy off. Biden hasn’t overturned it, but both presidents have followed a very similar isolationist agenda, at least where Afghanistan is concerned. Anyone who is blaming Biden for being the architect of the policy is lying to you.

There's a difference between the deal Trump signed off (and Biden inherited) and "policy".

Whether the US honoured that deal and how it implemented it is 100% Biden's policy and anyone that says different is lying to themselves.

[ronaldo7]

20 years was never going to be enough there though.

Worth thinking about when considering getting involved in future conflicts - it will require a shed load of cash and at least 2 or 3 generations for it to be any sort of a success. You’re then at the mercy of Trumpism or the like coming along and tearing up all the progress.

If you’re not prepared to do that then you stay out, and face whatever consequences may come your way from that instead.

Totally agree. Anyone who thought otherwise were playing at it. I've been interested in the role of Pakistan in all of this, and read a piece by Aqil Shah for the Carnegie Endowment for International peace the other day. It really brings home how diverse Afghanistan is, and all the hands at play trying to control it.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/08/13/what-will-happen-to-afghanistan-and-pakistan-s-uneasy-border-pub-85152

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/tomfrench85/status/1427561263358414850?s=21

Good to see that Scotland at least wants to do the right thing.


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[hibsbollah]

There's a difference between the deal Trump signed off (and Biden inherited) and "policy".

Whether the US honoured that deal and how it implemented it is 100% Biden's policy and anyone that says different is lying to themselves.

I disagree with Biden’s decision and his press conference was ill advised. I can’t agree that he did anything else but inherit the Afghanistan situation, and saying it will be his ‘legacy’ is way wide of the mark. If legacy is what folk are looking for its the mujahadeen and Reagan’sCIA policy of the 1980s

[Ozyhibby]

I disagree with Biden’s decision and his press conference was ill advised. I can’t agree that he did anything else but inherit the Afghanistan situation, and saying it will be his ‘legacy’ is way wide of the mark. If legacy is what folk are looking for its the mujahadeen and Reagan’sCIA policy of the 1980s

I don’t actually disagree with the decision to withdraw. Just the execution of it that has been horrific.
America’s focus is now China and the pacific. Taiwan will likely be the next hot spot.


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[hibsbollah]

I don’t actually disagree with the decision to withdraw. Just the execution of it that has been horrific.
America’s focus is now China and the pacific. Taiwan will likely be the next hot spot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree, it should have been more gradual, but the results were probably always going to happen. The Taliban have a lot of support in the countryside. Trumps 2020 peace deal was essentially a surrender, all the Taliban had to commit to was not attacking the Americans as they withdrew. When the Americans withdrew so did the supply contractors that allowed the Air Force to operate.

[neil7908]

Agree, it should have been more gradual, but the results were probably always going to happen. The Taliban have a lot of support in the countryside. Trumps 2020 peace deal was essentially a surrender, all the Taliban had to commit to was not attacking the Americans as they withdrew. When the Americans withdrew so did the supply contractors that allowed the Air Force to operate.

Yup. This has been done very, very badly but yet to hear anyone opposed actually explain what they would like to do.

If Biden goes back on the deal the Taliban will start attacks again, so more US soldiers and civilians will die and he'll have to put more boots on the ground and resources.

And how long do we stay? Another 20 years? How much money should be spent given the little impact the last 20 years has had?

The Taliban are terrible, but no worse than North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. The later we are of course happy to do deals with.

The whole thing has been a colossal s**tshow. Biden has made the call, he's taken responsibility but I don't see a practical proposal on alternatives.

[lord bunberry]

Yup. This has been done very, very badly but yet to hear anyone opposed actually explain what they would like to do.

If Biden goes back on the deal the Taliban will start attacks again, so more US soldiers and civilians will die and he'll have to put more boots on the ground and resources.

And how long do we stay? Another 20 years? How much money should be spent given the little impact the last 20 years has had?

The Taliban are terrible, but no worse than North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. The later we are of course happy to do deals with.

The whole thing has been a colossal s**tshow. Biden has made the call, he's taken responsibility but I don't see a practical proposal on alternatives.
They could’ve ensured everyone that had worked with forces were all evacuated before they left instead of leaving them at the mercy of the taliban. Britain are now issuing visas to thousands of people, but being in possession of one of these visas is a death sentence if caught by the taliban. You’re right about the whole thing being a ****show, but the role Biden has played in the withdrawal is every bit as bad as the role played by his predecessors if not worse.

[He's here!]

The Taliban knew the Americans couldn't stay forever. Time was always on their side. They moved into the shadows and over the border to Pakistan, whilst watching and waiting, biding their time. The US/UK cash was frittered away to people who weren't going to stand and fight, and the Taliban knew it.

The stability you speak of was actually a house of cards.

I wasn't referring to the longer-term/bigger picture. I was agreeing with a post about the impressive job the armed forces did to maintain the stability which allowed for the many positive developments in the country (largely within the cities, granted) which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago (developments which the Taliban now allege they will maintain). As John Simpson's article which I posted earlier pointed out, he found the quality of life unrecognisable to when he first started visiting the country.

I just thought some of the posts denigrating the efforts of the armed forces were wide of the mark.

[hibsbollah]

I just thought some of the posts denigrating the efforts of the armed forces were wide of the mark.

I think there’s often confusion between criticism of strategic and tactical decisions made by our governments and military leaders, which is justified and happens a lot, and criticism of ordinary soldiers on the ground, which actually almost never happens. (Well unless there’s an Abu Ghraib type situation)

[hibsbollah]

USA and continual war;

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/08/22/heres-how-much-of-your-life-the-u-s-has-been-at-war/%3foutputType=amp

[ronaldo7]

I wasn't referring to the longer-term/bigger picture. I was agreeing with a post about the impressive job the armed forces did to maintain the stability which allowed for the many positive developments in the country (largely within the cities, granted) which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago (developments which the Taliban now allege they will maintain). As John Simpson's article which I posted earlier pointed out, he found the quality of life unrecognisable to when he first started visiting the country.

I just thought some of the posts denigrating the efforts of the armed forces were wide of the mark.

The trouble was they maintained stability in the cities, leaving out vast swathes of the country. They were never going to change the mindset of those in the countryside/ mountains. The longer term/ bigger picture should always have been planned for, unfortunately the sabre rattlers won the day, shoot first ask questions later diplomacy.

[The Pointer]

Should have been an international force to keep these backwards *******s out. The horror of you daughter getting taken from your home is unimaginable. Still not forgiven them for destroying ancient statues like the Buddhas of Bamiyan

There was an international force.

US, Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, etc, etc.

[Stairway 2 7]

There was an international force.

US, Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, etc, etc.

Yeah but even after the us really decreasing the numbers in recent years, over 50% was still usa and 2nd uk. When they were going it was game over. Ben wallace said uk wanted to stay and he asked France and Germany to make up the numbers to replace the US but there wasn't interest. Once they said no he knew the uk couldn't go it alone, whether that is true or not.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/13/rift-with-us-grows-as-uk-minister-voices-fears-over-afghanistan-exit

[Hibrandenburg]

Yeah but even after the us really decreasing the numbers in recent years, over 50% was still usa and 2nd uk. When they were going it was game over. Ben wallace said uk wanted to stay and he asked France and Germany to make up the numbers to replace the US but there wasn't interest. Once they said no he knew the uk couldn't go it alone, whether that is true or not.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/13/rift-with-us-grows-as-uk-minister-voices-fears-over-afghanistan-exit

Germany have real problems getting a mandate for their military to operate outside their borders, well since 1945 at least. :duck:

[Stairway 2 7]

Germany have real problems getting a mandate for their military to operate outside their borders, well since 1945 at least. :duck:

An eu official task force would be handy, so that it wouldn't have to go through the individual parliaments each time. Although can't see uk agreeing to going because rule britania. UN has so many problems with different vetos ect.

[Paul1642]

There's a lifetime to pore over what went wrong in Afghanistan.

For now the focus should be on offering refuge and safe haven to those who have no desire to rewind 2 decades and more. All the wagging fingers and point scoring really means nothing, it's about practical help in the short term.

If the means throwing the doors of Europe open to those who wish to flee then so be it imo.

As nice as that sounds, if the Taliban do still hold intentions of oversees terrorism then throwing the doors open seems like a fast way to let in hundreds (if not thousands) of people who would do us harm. They are clearly well organised.

As for the country falling how much longer could we really stay? We put in place a long term government and Trained, equipped and funded a 300k strong army that on paper should have swept any Taliban re emergence aside without too much of a struggle. Sad to see them give up without putting a a fight.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Afghanistan: Former football captain fears for players left behind - BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58243348)

i imagine the Taliban frowned upon most female sports

"I have not been able to sleep, I have been crying and feeling helpless."
Khalida Popal is the former Afghanistan national women's team captain and reflecting on the shocking developments that unfold in her home country as the Taliban return to power after 20 years.

Now based in Denmark, the women's team director is desperately trying to help and advise her players, fearing what the Taliban rule may mean for women in the country.
"I receive messages from players from Afghanistan who are crying, saying we are abandoned and stuck at home not able to get out, they are afraid," Popal, 34, tells BBC Sport. "All the dreams have just gone. It is just like a nightmare.

[Hibrandenburg]

An eu official task force would be handy, so that it wouldn't have to go through the individual parliaments each time. Although can't see uk agreeing to going because rule britania. UN has so many problems with different vetos ect.

Can't see Germany agreeing either. Times may be changing but Germany is still very much a pacifist majority society and any political party favouring military intervention abroad is playing with fire. The idea that an organisation outwith Germany that could send German troops abroad is unthinkable at present.

[Stairway 2 7]

Can't see Germany agreeing either. Times may be changing but Germany is still very much a pacifist majority society and any political party favouring military intervention abroad is playing with fire. The idea that an organisation outwith Germany that could send German troops abroad is unthinkable at present.

Just been reading in the wake of this that macron is really keen to get a small force going. Merkel whilst agreeing in principle is not pushing but olaf scholz who I think is taking over is keen. An article but a few months old

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-seeks-rapid-response-military-force-two-decades-after-first-try-2021-05-05/

If one came about I'd prefer an independent Scotland being aligned to it over Westminster

[The Pointer]

An eu official task force would be handy, so that it wouldn't have to go through the individual parliaments each time. Although can't see uk agreeing to going because rule britania. UN has so many problems with different vetos ect.

Good luck with that. If you're prepared to wait ten years for France and Germany to decide who's going to lead it, crack-on. Also good as it wouldn't involve us as we're not in the EU, but as for "wouldn't have to go through individual parliaments", that doesn't sound very democratic. You want to send your sons or daughters to war without your government having a say? How very EU.

Anyway the Germans have had real problems with much of their hardware, Typhoons, subs, tanks etc being u/s and the French are involved in Mali etc. so wouldn't I suspect be up for it for a while.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good luck with that. If you're prepared to wait ten years for France and Germany to decide who's going to lead it, crack-on. Also good as it wouldn't involve us as we're not in the EU, but as for "wouldn't have to go through individual parliaments", that doesn't sound very democratic. You want to send your sons or daughters to war without your government having a say? How very EU.

Anyway the Germans have had real problems with much of their hardware, Typhoons, subs, tanks etc being u/s and the French are involved in Mali etc. so wouldn't I suspect be up for it for a while.

Well there would obviously be votes in eu and also the choice to not take part if your nation didn't want to. Just now it's Westminster that send Scots to war like Iraq and Northern Ireland in the not so distant past. I'd rather trust eus judgement to be honest

[Hibrandenburg]

Just been reading in the wake of this that macron is really keen to get a small force going. Merkel whilst agreeing in principle is not pushing but olaf scholz who I think is taking over is keen. An article but a few months old

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-seeks-rapid-response-military-force-two-decades-after-first-try-2021-05-05/

If one came about I'd prefer an independent Scotland being aligned to it over Westminster

Me too. It's being predicted that the Green Party and not the SDP will become the 2nd largest party at the next election. The CDU will probably gain support from within their own ranks for such a policy but the Greens and SNP would make it impossible for them. But like I said earlier, the world is changing and along with it the political landscape, who knows what will happen in 10 years time.

[hibsbollah]

As nice as that sounds, if the Taliban do still hold intentions of oversees terrorism then throwing the doors open seems like a fast way to let in hundreds (if not thousands) of people who would do us harm. They are clearly well organised.

As for the country falling how much longer could we really stay? We put in place a long term government and Trained, equipped and funded a 300k strong army that on paper should have swept any Taliban re emergence aside without too much of a struggle. Sad to see them give up without putting a a fight.

The Taliban never were interested in overseas terrorism. They are an exclusively domestic Afghan problem.

[Hibrandenburg]

The Taliban never were interested in overseas terrorism. They are an exclusively domestic Afghan problem.

They will now inherit the Afghan curse against the ruling incumbents. They will not go unopposed and a re-emergence of something like their previous internal foes the Northern Alliance will more than likely emerge once the dust has settled. Add to that the fact that the taliban themselves are an uneasy alliance of tribal groups, it won't be long before they are again fighting amongst themselves. Add to that American, Russian and Chinese attempts at influencing the region, a proxy conflict financed and supported by the previously mentioned countries is a dead cert.

[The Pointer]

Well there would obviously be votes in eu and also the choice to not take part if your nation didn't want to. Just now it's Westminster that send Scots to war like Iraq and Northern Ireland in the not so distant past. I'd rather trust eus judgement to be honest

Westminster, with Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish and English MPs all having a say.

Also, I think you're being disingenuous about "the choice not to take part" as the Commission will make your mind up for you.

[Future17]

I disagree with Biden’s decision and his press conference was ill advised. I can’t agree that he did anything else but inherit the Afghanistan situation, and saying it will be his ‘legacy’ is way wide of the mark. If legacy is what folk are looking for its the mujahadeen and Reagan’sCIA policy of the 1980s

It probably shouldn't be his legacy, but whether it will be only time will tell. His incompetence has opened up that possibility.

The only thing he inherited (from prior Presidents) which he couldn't change was the US action in Afghanistan prior to his election. Everything else, from a US perspective, has been his decision.

[The Pointer]

Back on thread, a German AF A400M took off from Kabul last night with only seven passengers: 5 German, 1 Dutch and an Afghan, causing a bit of a stooshie on social media.

[Hibrandenburg]

Back on thread, a German AF A400M took off from Kabul last night with only seven passengers: 5 German, 1 Dutch and an Afghan, causing a bit of a stooshie on social media.

Apparently there was no one else at the airport and the aircraft was told to go now or not go. After absolute Chaos as we've all seen on the TV the last few days, the alliance military cleared the airport and started turning away people trying to get in, including UK citizens whilst the airport was being cleared.

Germany have got 4 transport aircraft at the ready to create an air bridge out of Kabul when the slots become available and the aircraft that left near empty yesterday brought in 600 troops to help secure the airport.

[Future17]

Watching the UK Parliament discussing this is depressing and maddening. Starmer actually putting in a good performance but undermined by the cackling laughter of members of his own party; like any of this is funny.

[NYHibby]

Watching the UK Parliament discussing this is depressing and maddening. Starmer actually putting in a good performance but undermined by the cackling laughter of members of his own party; like any of this is funny.

There is a lot of sunk cost fallacy on display from certain people.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NewsForAllUK/status/1427999667493683209

Anti taliban protests in jalalabad and a few other cities some deadly.

[Future17]

Watching the UK Parliament discussing this is depressing and maddening. Starmer actually putting in a good performance but undermined by the cackling laughter of members of his own party; like any of this is funny.

For balance, a speech by Tom Tugendhat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-58259509

[Berwickhibby]

For balance, a speech by Tom Tugendhat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-58259509

Unusually for a Tory, he spoke well with genuine feeling

[Keyser Sauzee]

Watching question time just now and nelufar hedayat is speaking well, very impressed by her.

[Hibrandenburg]

For balance, a speech by Tom Tugendhat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-58259509

He got a round of applause, well deserved but I thought it wasn't allowed?

[lapsedhibee]

Unusually for a Tory, he spoke well with genuine feeling

Was clearly gutted last night on Newsnight for people he knew that were being left behind and would die as a result.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210819/dd1f3977c7b6b7685039308d6dbd94e5.jpg


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[Future17]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210819/dd1f3977c7b6b7685039308d6dbd94e5.jpg


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I hope the US Government reaps what it's sown (in terms of future NATO support for military endeavours it initiates) over this disgrace, but somehow I have my doubts.

[Future17]

He got a round of applause, well deserved but I thought it wasn't allowed?

It's not. Hoyle can be heard shouting "order" when the applause breaks out.

[He's here!]

Biden comes across as a complete dimwit here. With 15,000 US citizens still stranded in the Afghanistan, not to mention the 60,000 Afghan 'collaborators', it beggars belief they didn't begin evacuations before the military withdrawal. The 'inevitable chaos' he refers to simply didn't need to happen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58245269

[hibsbollah]

Biden comes across as a complete dimwit here. With 15,000 US citizens still stranded in the Afghanistan, not to mention the 60,000 Afghan 'collaborators', it beggars belief they didn't begin evacuations before the military withdrawal. The 'inevitable chaos' he refers to simply didn't need to happen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58245269

You’ve posted the wrong link.

Dominic Raab ‘refused to be contacted’ in the days prior to the collapse because he was on holiday. You’re supposed to be the Foreign ****ing Secretary :argh:

[The Baldmans Comb]

The English really don't seem to that bothered that the Americans treated them with utter contempt and moved with brutal self interest and refused to discuss anything in the way of timescales, contingencies, cooperation and communication.

Fortunately amongst all the angst, finger pointing and self loathing some brave English voices are now beginning to show genuine concern for the now trapped and isolated Afghan collaborators.

The low level collaborators will hopefully be allowed to leave but those further up the scale face a brutal future.

[Colr]

He got a round of applause, well deserved but I thought it wasn't allowed?

It’s not but neither is lying but the PM does that habitually.

[Hibbyradge]

These people protected British citizens for nearly 20 years, now they're being left to face the wrath of the Taliban. What a dishonourable disgrace. Please sign the petition.

http://chng.it/8cQfn24skY

[lapsedhibee]

These people protected British citizens for nearly 20 years, now they're being left to face the wrath of the Taliban. What a dishonourable disgrace. Please sign the petition.

http://chng.it/8cQfn24skY

Looks like UKGov may be trying to lie their way out of this as well. Who'd have thought?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/afghanistan-uk-embassy-guards-employer-disputes-minister-claim-of-kabul-evacuation

[hibsbollah]

Looks like UKGov may be trying to lie their way out of this as well. Who'd have thought?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/afghanistan-uk-embassy-guards-employer-disputes-minister-claim-of-kabul-evacuation

For ‘expat’ read ‘white’.

Being left to die after serving the UK and it’s ‘national interest’ for 20 years. It’s disgusting.

[lapsedhibee]

For ‘expat’ read ‘white’.

Being left to die after serving the UK and it’s ‘national interest’ for 20 years. It’s disgusting.

Gov 'working their backsides off' to remedy the situation. That sounds like they're trying even harder than when they're 'straining every sinew' or 'working round the clock'. Our ministers work so, so hard, surely they're entitled to uninterrupted holidays on the beach? :dunno:

[hibsbollah]

Gov 'working their backsides off' to remedy the situation. That sounds like they're trying even harder than when they're 'straining every sinew' or 'working round the clock'. Our ministers work so, so hard, surely they're entitled to uninterrupted holidays on the beach? :dunno:

I think they need to ‘ramp it up’.

[He's here!]

The English really don't seem to that bothered that the Americans treated them with utter contempt and moved with brutal self interest and refused to discuss anything in the way of timescales, contingencies, cooperation and communication.

Fortunately amongst all the angst, finger pointing and self loathing some brave English voices are now beginning to show genuine concern for the now trapped and isolated Afghan collaborators.

The low level collaborators will hopefully be allowed to leave but those further up the scale face a brutal future.

There were thousands of Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish armed forces personnel involed out there alongside 'the English'. Not to mention the many NATO personnel from numerous UN nations around the world.

[He's here!]

You’ve posted the wrong link.

Dominic Raab ‘refused to be contacted’ in the days prior to the collapse because he was on holiday. You’re supposed to be the Foreign ****ing Secretary :argh:

Ah, sorry. Oh well can't be bothered trying to find the right one now. Biden increasingly coming across as a clueles erse tho.

[Ozyhibby]

There were thousands of Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish armed forces personnel involed out there alongside 'the English'. Not to mention the many NATO personnel from numerous UN nations around the world.

Yip, and the have all been betrayed by the UK govt.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Watching Biden now, he’s all over the place.

Can’t blame the UK or other Euro governments for this mess. It’s all on the US this time.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

These people protected British citizens for nearly 20 years, now they're being left to face the wrath of the Taliban. What a dishonourable disgrace. Please sign the petition.

http://chng.it/8cQfn24skY

Collaborated.

[Hibrandenburg]

These people protected British citizens for nearly 20 years, now they're being left to face the wrath of the Taliban. What a dishonourable disgrace. Please sign the petition.

http://chng.it/8cQfn24skY

As a fully fledged supporter of Snowflakeism, I've already signed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Biden assured key allies in June that US security enablers would remain in place in Afghanistan as NATO troops withdrew, so much so that U.K. thought it could maintain its Kabul embassy. The US then failed to follow that commitment

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability

[cabbageandribs1875]

i see both Turkey and Greece have built/ hastily building walls to keep Afghan refugees out

[Hibrandenburg]

i see both Turkey and Greece have built/ hastily building walls to keep Afghan refugees out

Neither have a border with Afghanistan.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Neither have a border with Afghanistan.


well of course they don't, Turkey has built a wall along the border with Iran and Greece have built the wall on the border with Turkey, doesn't matter where they are on the map from Afghanistan they know they're coming to their countries

[Hibrandenburg]

well of course they don't, Turkey has built a wall along the border with Iran and Greece have built the wall on the border with Turkey, doesn't matter where they are on the map from Afghanistan they know they're coming to their countries

Just all seems a bit pointless considering all the other alternative routes they could take.

[Pretty Boy]

The scenes at Kabul Airport are as chaotic as they are heartbreaking. People willingly trying to hand over their babies to give them a chance of a future FFS.

If the US military are capable of holding the airport then they were capable of holding Kabul and elsewhere for a few more weeks to allow a semi orderly evacuation process.

I said if before and I say it again every single person who aided the US/UK/every one else mission for the last 20 years should be granted safe passage and resettlement. Even the right wingers who talk about 'looking after are own shoulders and veterinarians first' surely can't argue with that? If we don't offer that then we lose whatever remaining moral authority we still have. Anything other than that looks like we used those people then threw them to the wolves when their usefulness expired.

An utter shambles with a horrebdous humanitarian cost.

[hibsbollah]

Suhail Saheen from the Talibans delegation described (the possible delay in withdrawal) thus;

“It’s a red line. President Biden announced that on 31 August they would withdraw all their military forces. So if they extend it that means they are extending occupation while there is no need for that.

If the US or UK were to seek additional time to continue evacuations - the answer is no. Or there would be consequences.

It will create mistrust between us. If they are intent on continuing the occupation it will provoke a reaction.”

They’re basically ordering America around.

[He's here!]

Tony Blair's got his own cross to bear re Iraq but he speaks a lot of sense here, describing Biden's sloganeering as 'imbecelic':

Afghanistan: Tony Blair says withdrawal was driven by imbecilic slogan - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58295384)

[Curried]

Tony Blair's got his own cross to bear re Iraq but he speaks a lot of sense here, describing Biden's sloganeering as 'imbecelic':

Afghanistan: Tony Blair says withdrawal was driven by imbecilic slogan - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58295384)

Tony Blair needs to keep his big narcissistic mouth shut on legacy issues like this.

Literally no remorse.

How the **** this prick sleeps at night knowing he sent nearly 500 British service personnel to their deaths, and killed 1000’s of Afghan citizens is beyond belief.

[Stairway 2 7]

Tony Blair needs to keep his big narcissistic mouth shut on legacy issues like this.

Literally no remorse.

How the **** this prick sleeps at night knowing he sent nearly 500 British service personnel to their deaths, and killed 1000’s of Afghan citizens is beyond belief.

If you said Iraq I'd agree. That was a war crime brutal. It shouldn't be grouped with ousting the taliban and Al qeada. During the talibans first rain zero percent of females were educated, that rose to 75% for the last 20 years. Child marriage has plummeted and living standards increased. The criminal thing is leaving them back to it again

[hibsbollah]

If you said Iraq I'd agree. That was a war crime brutal. It shouldn't be grouped with ousting the taliban and Al qeada. During the talibans first rain zero percent of females were educated, that rose to 75% for the last 20 years. Child marriage has plummeted and living standards increased. The criminal thing is leaving them back to it again

After defeating the Taliban, who were a terrible regime of course, they installed a load of warlords who weren’t a whole lot better. Killing prisoners by locking them in shipping containers so they boiled to death was a favourite punishment for Taliban prisoners. A lot of these warlords were no better than the Taliban. It’s just the same messianic mistakes western politicians who fancy a bit of the ‘world policeman’ role, no ones learned from since Vietnam.

Blair should be a joke, and anyone asking for his opinion should be laughed at. I have no idea why the media keep printing his fevered musings on the front pages. Not just because of Iraq either, everything he touched in his ludicrous Middle East peace enjoy role turned to the brown stuff. Sadly he’s very very influential, right at the top of the current Labour Party via Mandelson.

[Stairway 2 7]

After defeating the Taliban, who were a terrible regime of course, they installed a load of warlords who weren’t a whole lot better. Killing prisoners by locking them in shipping containers so they boiled to death was a favourite punishment for Taliban prisoners. A lot of these warlords were no better than the Taliban. It’s just the same messianic mistakes western politicians who fancy a bit of the ‘world policeman’ role, no ones learned from since Vietnam.

Blair should be a joke, and anyone asking for his opinion should be laughed at. I have no idea why the media keep printing his fevered musings on the front pages. Not just because of Iraq either, everything he touched in his ludicrous Middle East peace enjoy role turned to the brown stuff. Sadly he’s very very influential, right at the top of the current Labour Party via Mandelson.

They were a whole lot better. Soldiers and leaders have always been brutalised since time immemorial unfortunately. Life of your average afghan (particularly women) is sorry was unrecognisable

[hibsbollah]

Boris is getting excited that the G7 has agreed a ‘roadmap’ for dealing with the Taliban in future. And that the Afghans that want to leave must be allowed to. How is that even conceivable when the Americans and the transport planes are also leaving? Does he expect the Taliban to start chartering planes for those wishing to leave (‘one does not simply walk out of Afghanistan’).

His claims and promises are a joke. As so often, his claims are the exact opposite of the reality (‘we are standing by those who stood by us’- no you’re not you lying toad you’re leaving them to be murdered) but nobody has the balls to pull him up for it.

[lord bunberry]

Boris is getting excited that the G7 has agreed a ‘roadmap’ for dealing with the Taliban in future. And that the Afghans that want to leave must be allowed to. How is that even conceivable when the Americans and the transport planes are also leaving? Does he expect the Taliban to start chartering planes for those wishing to leave (‘one does not simply walk out of Afghanistan’).

His claims and promises are a joke. As so often, his claims are the exact opposite of the reality (‘we are standing by those who stood by us’- no you’re not you lying toad you’re leaving them to be murdered) but nobody has the balls to pull him up for it.
When he says dealing with the taliban he means doing deals with them. The man is a complete shyster and it’s criminal that the press let him away with it.

[Smartie]

Boris is getting excited that the G7 has agreed a ‘roadmap’ for dealing with the Taliban in future. And that the Afghans that want to leave must be allowed to. How is that even conceivable when the Americans and the transport planes are also leaving? Does he expect the Taliban to start chartering planes for those wishing to leave (‘one does not simply walk out of Afghanistan’).

His claims and promises are a joke. As so often, his claims are the exact opposite of the reality (‘we are standing by those who stood by us’- no you’re not you lying toad you’re leaving them to be murdered) but nobody has the balls to pull him up for it.

His unsuitability for the job of PM becomes more apparent by the day, and as the serious situations requiring proper leadership mount it becomes of greater concern and potential consequence.

Absolute shyster.

[hibsbollah]

When he says dealing with the taliban he means doing deals with them. The man is a complete shyster and it’s criminal that the press let him away with it.

Even the Guardian seems to be giving him an easy ride.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/24/afghanistan-live-news-taliban-kabul-us-withdrawal-joe-biden-germany-airport-plane-flights-evacuation

[lord bunberry]

Even the Guardian seems to be giving him an easy ride.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/24/afghanistan-live-news-taliban-kabul-us-withdrawal-joe-biden-germany-airport-plane-flights-evacuation
It’s a sad state of affairs when they’re going easy on a Tory pm.

[hibsbollah]

Bbcs Caroline Hawley just now ‘Russia and China will be pleased at any Western failure in Afghanistan’.

Highly debatable opinion; both Russia and China have had plenty of unpleasant recent experience with Islamist terrorism. Yes, both countries are rivals of the US and the UK but there are other policy elements at play. The last thing Beijing or Moscow want is an explosion in Islamism right on their geographic doorstep (yes, it’s actually their backyard, not ours). But it wasn’t even portrayed as debatable, just a BBC simplistic’fact’.

[lord bunberry]

Bbcs Caroline Hawley just now ‘Russia and China will be pleased at any Western failure in Afghanistan’.

Highly debatable opinion; both Russia and China have had plenty of unpleasant recent experience with Islamist terrorism. Yes, both countries are rivals of the US and the UK but there are other policy elements at play. The last thing Beijing or Moscow want is an explosion in Islamism right on their geographic doorstep (yes, it’s actually their backyard, not ours). But it wasn’t even portrayed as debatable, just a BBC simplistic’fact’.
I agree with that point, Russia and China will be revelling in the chaos that’s currently unfolding in Afghanistan. Two pariah states that will have no problem dealing with the taliban, it’s almost as bad as the western democracies dealing with and legitimising the regime in Saudi Arabia. You fly with the crows…

[Radium]

Bbcs Caroline Hawley just now ‘Russia and China will be pleased at any Western failure in Afghanistan’.

Highly debatable opinion; both Russia and China have had plenty of unpleasant recent experience with Islamist terrorism. Yes, both countries are rivals of the US and the UK but there are other policy elements at play. The last thing Beijing or Moscow want is an explosion in Islamism right on their geographic doorstep (yes, it’s actually their backyard, not ours). But it wasn’t even portrayed as debatable, just a BBC simplistic’fact’.

China is heavily linked with Pakistan who allowed Taliban fighters to move into the northern part of the country. The projected power is already there


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[Prof. Shaggy]

If you said Iraq I'd agree. That was a war crime brutal. It shouldn't be grouped with ousting the taliban and Al qeada. During the talibans first rain zero percent of females were educated, that rose to 75% for the last 20 years. Child marriage has plummeted and living standards increased. The criminal thing is leaving them back to it again

JP's thoughts on the subject.

https://consortiumnews.com/2021/08/24/john-pilger-the-great-game-of-smashing-nations/

[CloudSquall]

I imagine having Afghanistan on side will help ease China's "Belt and Road Initiative" through Central Asia into Turkey and Europe.

[ronaldo7]

JP's thoughts on the subject.

https://consortiumnews.com/2021/08/24/john-pilger-the-great-game-of-smashing-nations/

A decent piece by JP (aren't they all).

Nice to see Thatcher cosying up to the Mujahedin "Freedom Fighters", whilst Blair spoke with a forked tongue. He was quoted in the piece saying, “This is a moment to seize,” he said following 9/11. “The Kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. Soon they will settle again. Before they do, let us re-order this world around us.”

On Afghanistan, he added this: “We will not walk away some way out of the poverty that is your miserable existence.”

Blair echoed his mentor, President George W. Bush, who spoke to the victims of his bombs from the Oval Office: “The oppressed people of Afghanistan will know the generosity of America. As we strike military targets, we will also drop food, medicine and supplies to the starving and suffering … “

[B]Almost every word was false. Their declarations of concern were cruel illusions for an imperial savagery “we” in the West rarely recognize as such.

[GRA]

Trillions invested.

Thousands of soldiers dead.

Tens of thousands of innocent civilians dead.

For what? To return to the status quo?

Don't believe the Taliban for a second. They will be more determined than ever to drag Afghanistan back to the dark ages.

Thousands of Afghans who helped our service personnel and no doubt saved thousands more lives will be left at the mercy of the Taliban and will suffer the consequences (as will their families).

In three months the excessive media attention will all die down once there are no Brits/Westerners left over there and we'll get on with our lives. Ordinary Afghans will be the ones suffering for decades to come.

Disgraceful. Our leaders should hang their heads in shame.

[hibsbollah]

Boris’ Cash Offer to the Taliban headlines.

Just imagine if it was Corbyn…

[silverhibee]

When he says dealing with the taliban he means doing deals with them. The man is a complete shyster and it’s criminal that the press let him away with it.

Things may change in England when the poor who are on benefits have it cut by near enough £90 a month, it may be a turning point for folk to turn against the government, even though these people may have voted them in, there mood might change when more people struggle to put food on the table and they find out gas and electricity will go up for them as well and stuff gets dearer and they are losing that kind of money monthly.

[Betty Boop]

An explosion outside Kabul Airport casualties unclear.

[hibsbollah]

An explosion outside Kabul Airport casualties unclear.

So the intelligence WAS right this time.

[Bristolhibby]

Boris’ Cash Offer to the Taliban headlines.

Just imagine if it was Corbyn…

He only spoke to Sinn Fein. Johnson is giving the Taliban a bung.

Real politik indeed.

J

[Betty Boop]

So the intelligence WAS right this time.
Of course the Americans provided the perfect conditions for this to happen. I would imagine that will be the end of the evacuation the troops will leave and that will be it.
Turkish MOD reporting a second explosion.

[Ozyhibby]

Johnson is an embarrassment. For someone who like to think of himself like Churchill, he’s proving much more like Chamberlain.


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[CloudSquall]

2nd explosion at a hotel near the Kabul airport.

[Pretty Boy]

Horrendous.

Horrendous historical failings, horrendous mismanagement of the withdrawal and evacuation and horrendous cowardice to attack desperate people trying to reach safety.

[Sylar]

Of course the Americans provided the perfect conditions for this to happen. I would imagine that will be the end of the evacuation the troops will leave and that will be it.
Turkish MOD reporting a second explosion.

America (and the UK) have a lot to answer for with the current situation in Afghanistan - no arguments. But let's be clear here - there's only one group who should be condemned for carrying out an attack on people trying to flee the country: and that's the people who carried out an attack on people trying to flee the country.

[Ozyhibby]

America (and the UK) have a lot to answer for with the current situation in Afghanistan - no arguments. But let's be clear here - there's only one group who should be condemned for carrying out an attack on people trying to flee the country: and that's the people who carried out an attack on people trying to flee the country.

It’s only our political leaders we are able to hold to account though. And Johnson has failed. Unfortunately for Scotland he doesn’t need votes from here anyway. He does not care a jot about what we think. Our votes are meaningless.


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[hibsbollah]

America (and the UK) have a lot to answer for with the current situation in Afghanistan - no arguments. But let's be clear here - there's only one group who should be condemned for carrying out an attack on people trying to flee the country: and that's the people who carried out an attack on people trying to flee the country.

This is of course 100% true.

And journalists, human rights workers and trade unionists will be amongst those potentially murdered today.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210826/1bb54b2da3e81fed6c08b6a60827f9f9.jpg


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[DH1875]

Apparently it's some splinter group who carried out the attacks. As if the Taliban weren't bad enough ffs.

[He's here!]

America (and the UK) have a lot to answer for with the current situation in Afghanistan - no arguments. But let's be clear here - there's only one group who should be condemned for carrying out an attack on people trying to flee the country: and that's the people who carried out an attack on people trying to flee the country.

Absolutely. Sc*m is the only way to describe the IS bombers. A truly despicable, cowardly attack, purposefully killing so many innocent civilians.

The military casualties are desperately sad too. First allied deaths in Afghanistan for 18 months. A grim kind of testimony to the sterling job they were doing out there until Biden's madcap endorsement of a mass withdrawal. Probably an even more grim indication of the sort of fate they're now leaving many Afghans to endure.

[Jones28]

I honestly could cry hearing that. What a complete and utter cluster ****.

[He's here!]

Apparently it's some splinter group who carried out the attacks. As if the Taliban weren't bad enough ffs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-58279900?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6127ed93b19a573a6ec38391%26Islamic%20S tate%20claim%20responsibility%20for%20bombing%2620 21-08-26T19%3A41%3A36.477Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:f7b611c1-915f-4300-88d2-598dfb297837&pinned_post_asset_id=6127ed93b19a573a6ec38391&pinned_post_type=share

[Sir David Gray]

Apparently it's some splinter group who carried out the attacks. As if the Taliban weren't bad enough ffs.

Yep Isis-K (Islamic State Khorasan Province), who are a regional affiliate of Islamic State have claimed responsibility. They are opposed to the Taliban as, believe it or not, they don't deem them to be extreme enough.

[The Baldmans Comb]

After a 20 year war the Americans and the English are now demanding that the Taleban provide them with protection from ISIS.

That is so gobsmacking breathtaking you would think we now inhabit a surreal parallel universe.😱

Tragically we don't and these brave but terrified young soldiers still have a few more days of hell to endure while the American and English politicians cobble together another huge swathe of lies.

[lord bunberry]

I honestly could cry hearing that. What a complete and utter cluster ****.
Absolutely. And what’s coming down the road is going to dwarf recent events, thousands of Afghans are going to be brutally tortured and killed for working with the armies who are currently bailing out and leaving them to their fate. We promised them a better life, a way out of the hell that they were living in, but as soon as it became politically unpopular we’ve thrown them to the wolves. Trump was an appalling president, but he didn’t do anything as bad as what Biden is doing right now. I don’t care if it was Trump that agreed this withdrawal, Biden has reversed almost all Trump policies and he could’ve done the same with this one. What a complete ****show.

[Bishop Hibee]

Absolutely. And what’s coming down the road is going to dwarf recent events, thousands of Afghans are going to be brutally tortured and killed for working with the armies who are currently bailing out and leaving them to their fate. We promised them a better life, a way out of the hell that they were living in, but as soon as it became politically unpopular we’ve thrown them to the wolves. Trump was an appalling president, but he didn’t do anything as bad as what Biden is doing right now. I don’t care if it was Trump that agreed this withdrawal, Biden has reversed almost all Trump policies and he could’ve done the same with this one. What a complete ****show.

Has the occupation of Afghanistan ever been politically popular? Maybe at the beginning when the U. S. was trying to deflect the blame on 9/11 from Saudi Arabia to any other country possible. Politically, the best hopes for civilians left behind is probably a deal between the U.S. and the Taliban to fight against the estimated 2,000 fighters affiliated to ISIS in Afghanistan.

[Lendo]

Does anyone else think that there is more to the pull out of troops than meets the eyes?

Some backroom agreements with China to allow them to take more control of the region in exchange for something or other?

Afghanistan could be the worlds largest exporters of lithium in the future. Something China (and the rest of the world) will be desperately needing for batteries as we move away from fossil fuels.

Who knows, I’m just talking pish probably, had a few pints.

[lord bunberry]

Has the occupation of Afghanistan ever been politically popular? Maybe at the beginning when the U. S. was trying to deflect the blame on 9/11 from Saudi Arabia to any other country possible. Politically, the best hopes for civilians left behind is probably a deal between the U.S. and the Taliban to fight against the estimated 2,000 fighters affiliated to ISIS in Afghanistan.
You’re correct. What I should’ve said was politically popular to pull troops out, it didn’t matter to Biden what the consequences of pulling troops out would be. Biden has acted in a cowardly fashion and he will be forever known as the president who sacrificed innocent lives for political gain. I can’t stress enough how much this disgusts me. I was reading about things the taliban do to anyone considered collaborators, things like peeling the skin of people while still alive. The west stepped in and took control of Afghanistan, they should’ve stayed until the job was finished.

[hibsbollah]

You’re correct. What I should’ve said was politically popular to pull troops out, it didn’t matter to Biden what the consequences of pulling troops out would be. Biden has acted in a cowardly fashion and he will be forever known as the president who sacrificed innocent lives for polI can’t stress enough how much this disgusts me. I was reading about things the taliban do to anyone considered collaborators, things like peeling the skin of people while still alive. The west stepped in and took control of Afghanistan, they should’ve stayed until the job was finished.

Confusing though. Everyone had forgotten about ISIS. In the space of a few hours the Taliban have gone from world most wanted to innocent victims of international terrorism. (Innocent Afghans working for the Taliban were the most numerous casualties today).

[cabbageandribs1875]

13 US Troops and 90 Afghans murdered by the cowards

[Bristolhibby]

Absolutely. And what’s coming down the road is going to dwarf recent events, thousands of Afghans are going to be brutally tortured and killed for working with the armies who are currently bailing out and leaving them to their fate. We promised them a better life, a way out of the hell that they were living in, but as soon as it became politically unpopular we’ve thrown them to the wolves. Trump was an appalling president, but he didn’t do anything as bad as what Biden is doing right now. I don’t care if it was Trump that agreed this withdrawal, Biden has reversed almost all Trump policies and he could’ve done the same with this one. What a complete ****show.

I don’t understand how Biden can reverse it without America becoming even less trusted on the world stage.

America (Trump) made a commitment. Biden has to honour that. I admit the withdrawal has been a cluster. This should have been done months ago to prevent a Saigon situation (which we now have x 10).

J

[Crunchie]

After a 20 year war the Americans and the English are now demanding that the Taleban provide them with protection from ISIS.

That is so gobsmacking breathtaking you would think we now inhabit a surreal parallel universe.😱

Tragically we don't and these brave but terrified young soldiers still have a few more days of hell to endure while the American and English politicians cobble together another huge swathe of lies.
What's with the English nonsense? put your hatred aside and try and show a bit of genuine compassion. The way this has panned out is down to Biden and no one else.

[lord bunberry]

Confusing though. Everyone had forgotten about ISIS. In the space of a few hours the Taliban have gone from world most wanted to innocent victims of international terrorism. (Innocent Afghans working for the Taliban were the most numerous casualties today).
I don’t believe anything the taliban say. The fact that the attacks were predicted to happen tells me that the taliban were aware of them or responsible for them.

[Ozyhibby]

What's with the English nonsense? put your hatred aside and try and show a bit of genuine compassion. The way this has panned out is down to Biden and no one else.

Johnson getting a free pass then?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210827/f9ec5f33f7957a7db2a6499d55ae5461.jpg

Thankfully our UK govt saved some cats and dogs.


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[lord bunberry]

I don’t understand how Biden can reverse it without America becoming even less trusted on the world stage.

America (Trump) made a commitment. Biden has to honour that. I admit the withdrawal has been a cluster. This should have been done months ago to prevent a Saigon situation (which we now have x 10).

J
A commitment by Tump to the taliban isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Biden could and should have ripped it up and told the taliban that there would never be any deals. I can’t see any way that America could be less trusted on the world stage than they are right now. The so called leader of the free world has just turned his back and plunged millions of people into a life that most of us can’t even imagine.

[Crunchie]

Johnson getting a free pass then?


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A free pass on what? Where and what is the great EU doing in all of this? Are there German and French planes/troops over there evacuating?

[lapsedhibee]

Are there German and French planes/troops over there evacuating?

Of course there have been. Do you get your news from the Daily Express? :dunno:

[Crunchie]

Of course there have been. Do you get your news from the Daily Express? :dunno:
So why no criticism aimed at them? This anti-English diatribe is pathetic.

[CropleyWasGod]

So why no criticism aimed at them? This anti-English diatribe is pathetic.

Why would you criticise countries for being involved in the evacuation?

[Ozyhibby]

A free pass on what? Where and what is the great EU doing in all of this? Are there German and French planes/troops over there evacuating?

It was never an EU mission. It’s a NATO mission.
It’s the UK govt that I’m interested in because it is the govt that is supposed to represent me. And once again it hasn’t come close to doing that in a way I find to be acceptable.


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[hibsbollah]

I don’t believe anything the taliban say. The fact that the attacks were predicted to happen tells me that the taliban were aware of them or responsible for them.

Sorry, not a chance. ISIS and Taliban are mortal enemies. Just another one of the multiple contradictions in all this mess is that Western troops have been fighting on both of these two sides of islamism and against the other throughout the last twenty years. Throw in the Sunni ****** schism, all the tribal splits, multiple warlords etc, and the impossible geography….Russia China India all interested neighbours and nuclear powers…

Nobody ever wins a war in that part of the world.

[Crunchie]

It was never an EU mission. It’s a NATO mission.
It’s the UK govt that I’m interested in because it is the govt that is supposed to represent me. And once again it hasn’t come close to doing that in a way I find to be acceptable.


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No matter what the UK government you'd find a way to criticise it. And fyi no government in the world can satisfy all its citizens you'll find that out within months of a Scottish govt if we were to ever win a referendum.

[CropleyWasGod]

No matter what the UK government you'd find a way to criticise it. And fyi no government in the world can satisfy all its citizens you'll find that out within months of a Scottish govt if we were to ever win a referendum.

:greengrin

[Andy Bee]

Apparently allied forces have left a fair amount of equipment behind.....75,000 vehicles, 200 aircraft including Blackhawk helicopters, 600,000 small arms, ammunition, night vision goggles, kevlar vests, medical supplies but worryingly bio metric scanners with fingerprint and retina scan info on all USA citizens in Afghanistan along with Afghans who assisted the allied forces.

[Crunchie]

:greengrin
Shock, horror I consider myself Scottish :saltireflag but proud to be British also.

[Smartie]

Apparently allied forces have left a fair amount of equipment behind.....75,000 vehicles, 200 aircraft including Blackhawk helicopters, 600,000 small arms, ammunition, night vision goggles, kevlar vests, medical supplies but worryingly bio metric scanners with fingerprint and retina scan info on all USA citizens in Afghanistan along with Afghans who assisted the allied forces.

Seriously?

Why on Earth would they do that? As far as I was aware they weren't just scarpering, scared for their lives. Whilst the withdrawal may have been hasty, it didn't seem the sort of thing that would justify that.

That sounds several levels beyond negligent if so.

[Betty Boop]

What's with the English nonsense? put your hatred aside and try and show a bit of genuine compassion. The way this has panned out is down to Biden and no one else.
Hear hear

[Andy Bee]

Seriously?

Why on Earth would they do that? As far as I was aware they weren't just scarpering, scared for their lives. Whilst the withdrawal may have been hasty, it didn't seem the sort of thing that would justify that.

That sounds several levels beyond negligent if so.



https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1430972296311840773

[Just Alf]

If I'd known 18 months ago this exit was happening, I'd have begun almost immediately ramping down staff, I'd have had 90% of impacted people out the country and definitely no families still there, this last few weeks would have been the last of my military moving back to the airport then finally the last flight out would take place with the remaining personnel.

That's how I would have done it and anyone I've spoken too and we're not experts.

As the UK government DID know 18 months ago I think its quite valid for people to critise their management of it and whatever folks say, that management of the extraction is nothing to do with the US, Germany, France or the EU

[ronaldo7]

If I'd known 18 months ago this exit was happening, I'd have begun almost immediately ramping down staff, I'd have had 90% of impacted people out the country and definitely no families still there, this last few weeks would have been the last of my military moving back to the airport then finally the last flight out would take place with the remaining personnel.

That's how I would have done it and anyone I've spoken too and we're not experts.

As the UK government DID know 18 months ago I think its quite valid for people to critise their management of it and whatever folks say, that management of the extraction is nothing to do with the US, Germany, France or the EU

Yup,

They've had long enough to get it sorted, but have fannied about telling everyone how Global Britain is. Logistics is just not our bag anymore it seems.

Meanwhile they've left folk who've helped them over the last 20 years in the lurch. Typical of this bunch of incompetents.

[He's here!]

So why no criticism aimed at them? This anti-English diatribe is pathetic.

It's called trying to shoehorn an independence argument into any thread possible. In this instance it strikes me as not only inappropriate but insensitive bearing in mind the number of Scottish military personnel who are out there.

The girl who cuts my hair told me a couple of weks ago that her fiancee, who is based at Redford barracks, was being flown out to assist with the evacuation. It's people like her I worry about when you see headlines like yesterday, not the likes of Boris Johnson.

[Moulin Yarns]

if we were to ever win a referendum.

I know that CWG already highlighted the 'we' but I also think that it's worth highlighting the full phrase 😉

Is that the mask slipping? 🤔😁