Penalty and red card not given

[MWHIBBIES]

Great win yesterday, but it was a lot closer than it should've been. Magennis 1 on 1 with the goalie, barged in the back, goal kick given. No attempt to play the ball, so a red card it had to be.

How on earth both ref and linesman missed it, I don't know. Coupled with Newells ridiculous red card in Europe, this season has started well in terms of referees.

[hibbysam]

Great win yesterday, but it was a lot closer than it should've been. Magennis 1 on 1 with the goalie, barged in the back, goal kick given. No attempt to play the ball, so a red card it had to be.

How on earth both ref and linesman missed it, I don't know. Coupled with Newells ridiculous red card in Europe, this season has started well in terms of referees.

Don’t think it would’ve been straight red as I thought Magennis was slightly wide, certainly not a clear goal scoring opportunity, however it would’ve been a yellow and thus a red anyway. Clear push in the back. It showed the ref after it and he was saying ‘not enough for me’ - which really gets on my goat. Penalties are held to a different set of ‘rules’ by referees, which is ludicrous, a foul is a foul regardless of where on the pitch it is.

[MWHIBBIES]

Don’t think it would’ve been straight red as I thought Magennis was slightly wide, certainly not a clear goal scoring opportunity, however it would’ve been a yellow and thus a red anyway. Clear push in the back. It showed the ref after it and he was saying ‘not enough for me’ - which really gets on my goat. Penalties are held to a different set of ‘rules’ by referees, which is ludicrous, a foul is a foul regardless of where on the pitch it is.
He was about to shoot with only goalie to beat. Definitely a straight red. A definite goalscoring opportunity.

I agree about your second statement. Penalties are fouls in the box, nothing more. He gave 20 softer fouls than that. Another joker of a ref.

[matty_f]

Don’t think it would’ve been straight red as I thought Magennis was slightly wide, certainly not a clear goal scoring opportunity, however it would’ve been a yellow and thus a red anyway. Clear push in the back. It showed the ref after it and he was saying ‘not enough for me’ - which really gets on my goat. Penalties are held to a different set of ‘rules’ by referees, which is ludicrous, a foul is a foul regardless of where on the pitch it is.

He’s through on goal, wide or not that’s a clear goal scoring opportunity and a red card all day long. Even if the ref was sympathetic and viewed it as an attempt to play the ball, it’s a second yellow for the player.

[bod]

Compare our that wasn’t given to St Mirren’s which was :confused:

[hibbysam]

He was about to shoot with only goalie to beat. Definitely a straight red. A definite goalscoring opportunity.

I agree about your second statement. Penalties are fouls in the box, nothing more. He gave 20 softer fouls than that. Another joker of a ref.

Difficulty of the chance is taken into consideration though and by no means was it a gimme. On the angle with the keeper in the sticks.

He actually gave a foul about 30 seconds later on Stevenson for far less. Frustrating!

[mal]

Don’t think it would’ve been straight red as I thought Magennis was slightly wide, certainly not a clear goal scoring opportunity, however it would’ve been a yellow and thus a red anyway. Clear push in the back. It showed the ref after it and he was saying ‘not enough for me’ - which really gets on my goat. Penalties are held to a different set of ‘rules’ by referees, which is ludicrous, a foul is a foul regardless of where on the pitch it is.

You need to watch it again. He's clean through with the keeper to beat and he's about to shoot. It's as clear cut a goal scoring opportunity as you're likely to see.

[Keith_M]

He’s through on goal, wide or not that’s a clear goal scoring opportunity and a red card all day long. Even if the ref was sympathetic and viewed it as an attempt to play the ball, it’s a second yellow for the player.


Which it never was in a million years.


(not that you were actually saying that, Matty).

[EdinMike]

Having seen the replays this morning I can’t believe it wasn’t given, the only reason I can summarise is the fact Magennis threw his arms up and maybe made him “looking for it” even though it was a clear foul.

They all even themselves out though, so they say.

[Keith_M]

Somebody posted this on the PM board.

https://twitter.com/ronniemccardle/status/1421867563319955462?s=21


As clear a penalty as you'll ever see,

[hibbysam]

You need to watch it again. He's clean through with the keeper to beat and he's about to shoot. It's as clear cut a goal scoring opportunity as you're likely to see.

I’ve watched it plenty, my opinion is that he’s wide enough and being closed down by the keeper that it’s not clear.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’ve watched it plenty, my opinion is that he’s wide enough and being closed down by the keeper that it’s not clear.

It's a clear shot at the goal from 10/12 yards. He's really not that wide and the goalie is always a factor. Stonewall red mate.

It's an opportunity we're talking about here. That's definitely a clear opportunity.

[mal]

I’ve watched it plenty, my opinion is that he’s wide enough and being closed down by the keeper that it’s not clear.

Goal scoring opportunity doesn't mean that the player is guaranteed to score. I'd expect any decent finisher to tuck that away 9 times out of 10.

[Keith_M]

It's a clear shot at the goal from 10/12 yards. He's really not that wide and the goalie is always a factor. Stonewall red mate.

It's an opportunity we're talking about here. That's definitely a clear opportunity.


Even if the it wasn't a straight red, at the very least it should have been a penalty and 2nd yellow, so most likely 2-2 at HT and playing against ten men the rest of the match.


Meanwhile, the Motherwell manager moans about the penalty we did get as 'not being in the spirit of the game'

:rolleyes:

[hibbysam]

It's a clear shot at the goal from 10/12 yards. He's really not that wide and the goalie is always a factor. Stonewall red mate.

He’s wide enough that increases the difficulty of scoring, the keeper is always a factor but in this case he’s narrowed the angle completely and is only a few yards away.

I just don’t think a ref would ever give that as a straight red all things considered, but 100% a second yellow.

[Jim44]

The fact is that it was indisputably a foul in the box, so cast iron penalty. Any ref missing it should be demoted to pub football for the rest of the season.

[MWHIBBIES]

He’s wide enough that increases the difficulty of scoring, the keeper is always a factor but in this case he’s narrowed the angle completely and is only a few yards away.

I just don’t think a ref would ever give that as a straight red all things considered, but 100% a second yellow.

Its still a clear goalscoring opportunity.

[ahibby]

Goal scoring opportunity doesn't mean that the player is guaranteed to score. I'd expect any decent finisher to tuck that away 9 times out of 10.

Surely the colour doesnt matter and the point is everyone who saw it says its a pen apart from the ref and his assistant a pair of homers obviously.

[mal]

He’s wide enough that increases the difficulty of scoring, the keeper is always a factor but in this case he’s narrowed the angle completely and is only a few yards away.

I just don’t think a ref would ever give that as a straight red all things considered, but 100% a second yellow.

Except he hasn't. I'm looking at a still frame right now. He's about halfway between the goal line and the ball when the foul is made and there's loads of space to get the ball past him.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Was a clear penalty.

The defender never even touched the ball in the attempted tackle.

The ref just didn’t want to make a big decision and neither did the linesman who was hopeless.

I thought Motherwell were a bit more dirty than physical. Scything down Boyle at every opportunity as well.

Could have cost us a win.

[hibbysam]

Except he hasn't. I'm looking at a still frame right now. He's about halfway between the goal line and the ball when the foul is made and there's loads of space to get the ball past him.

So he’s narrowed the angle then. The still shows the keeper outside his 6 yard box. All redundant anyway as it would still have been a sending off regardless.

[Dr What If?]

The ref is lucky we still went on to win the game. Referees do change the outcome of games with their decisions, no ref wants to be the one on the back pages for making that game changing error. I agree though, that was an absolute shocker.

[LongJohnBanger]

I try and not have the green tinted specs on with incidents like that to see if I can understand how the referee arrived at their decision and the best I can come up with it that Munro saw it as a shoulder challenge.

The problem with that however is Magennis is barged over from behind by Carroll so Magennis doesn't have the opportunity to go shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, a contributing factor in all of it is Magennis already being pushed wide by having to ride the outstrerched leg of Mugabi before being bundled over, which typified Motherwell's tackling overall yesterday. I.e. beat one player and there's another waiting to clean you out.

[mal]

So he’s narrowed the angle then. The still shows the keeper outside his 6 yard box. All redundant anyway as it would still have been a sending off regardless.

Not enough, which is the point. If he's not guaranteed to save it - which he isn't - then it's a clear goal-scoring opportunity.

But you're right, it makes little difference whether it was a straight red or a second yellow. It was a clear penalty and clear sending off.

[Hibee Mac]

35 mins into the season and the refs had already denied us a stonewall penalty and red card.

Nothing changes in Scottish football...

[jacomo]

Somebody posted this on the PM board.

https://twitter.com/ronniemccardle/status/1421867563319955462?s=21


As clear a penalty as you'll ever see,


That’s a penalty and booking all day long. What was the ref thinking?

[Northernhibee]

He takes out his standing leg. No question over it. Penalty.

[grunt]

Not even discussed on Sportscene. Mentioned during commentary, not referred to in the studio.

[Hibby70]

Not even discussed on Sportscene. Mentioned during commentary, not referred to in the studio.

Biggest talking point of the match

[theonlywayisup]

Not even discussed on Sportscene. Mentioned during commentary, not referred to in the studio.


Biggest talking point of the match

Was odd not to mention it, but I assumed this was because it had no impact on the overall result. If they had, there would have been less time to talk about the games played the day prior.:rolleyes:

[Skol]

It was a penalty, no doubt of that. That was my view on viewing live and re-iterated when seeing the replay.

However, TV gave us a very good view of the incident and I think the ref had a different view from a different angle and at ground level with other players around and I can see why he may not have been 100% certain. It is one of these frustrating incidents as you know if it was rangers or celtic it would have been awarded without hesitation

[theonlywayisup]

Somebody posted this on the PM board.

https://twitter.com/ronniemccardle/status/1421867563319955462?s=21


As clear a penalty as you'll ever see,

From 120 yards away, it looked like a clear penalty. Why it wasn't given is not clear to me and our refs should get the opportunity to discuss their logic. What I also can't understand is why the linesman didn't have a word with the ref at the next break in play.

[Craigmount Hibs]

The ref is lucky we still went on to win the game. Referees do change the outcome of games with their decisions, no ref wants to be the one on the back pages for making that game changing error. I agree though, that was an absolute shocker.

Agreed. I said at the game that the ref was a coward, because he would have had to send the left back off.

The ref bottled it.

[500miles]

Slatterly should have been sent off for a second yellow as well. Booked, then emptied another hibs player straight away.

Carroll also raised his hands to Boyle in a similar manner to which Boyle was booked for in Europe. Motherwell should never have finished with 11 men on the pitch.

[The Harp Awakes]

Not even discussed on Sportscene. Mentioned during commentary, not referred to in the studio.

The content and edit of Sportscene's highlights is rank rotten. They regularly miss out key talking points. The highlights of the Hearts v Celtic game didn't even show Halliday's shocking challenge on McGregor which went unpunished.

[Spudster]

I assumed the red card suggestion would've been Van Veen. His was a red and not a yellow IMO.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Shocker of a decision. Clear goal scoring opportunity and zero attempt to play the play-straight red all day long. Magennis falling to the side and getting a toe on the ball has given the ref an out I think, if he fell face forwards and made no contact with the ball I don’t think the ref could have not given it. He’s defo bottled the decision though.

[Torto7]

I dont usually condone this but I was glad the players surrounded the ref at half time. We get booted off the park most weeks and need to make sure we're in the refs ear. Boyle in particular must be the most fouled player in the league.

[cabbageandribs1875]

that's a foul anywhere else on the pitch, outrageous the referee didn't consider that a foul



David Munro, cheat or just incompetent

[Onion]

Whichever angle you look at it, it's a shocker.

Ref is either a coward or a cheat. He can't have it any other way. I strongly suspect the former. Hibs penalty, Motherwell player sent off. Ref couldn't stand the pressure of giving that. Needs to be barred from top flight games.

[Rijeka fan]

Definitely a clean penalty and a card, yellow or red depending on ref perception of "promising situation".

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

This wasn't a difficult call for the ref to make. Not his best day at the office.

[WhileTheChief..]

Whichever angle you look at it, it's a shocker.

Ref is either a coward or a cheat. He can't have it any other way. I strongly suspect the former. Hibs penalty, Motherwell player sent off. Ref couldn't stand the pressure of giving that. Needs to be barred from top flight games.

Or he just made a mistake!

We all saw it, and he prob realised it himself pretty quickly.

Ref under pressure in a half empty Motherwell stadium??! You're having a laugh!!

[matty_f]

Or he just made a mistake!

We all saw it, and he prob realised it himself pretty quickly.

Ref under pressure in a half empty Motherwell stadium??! You're having a laugh!!
It was definitely a mistake, it’s whether or not he chose to make the mistake that’s the issue.

I don’t think he was cheating, though - if he was we’d have seen Newell booked and the penalty we did get, waved away.

[Peevemor]

It was definitely a mistake, it’s whether or not he chose to make the mistake that’s the issue.

I don’t think he was cheating, though - if he was we’d have seen Newell booked and the penalty we did get, waved away.

What was the linesman doing? Surely he should have insisted for something as blatant as that.

[Skol]

Whichever angle you look at it, it's a shocker.

Ref is either a coward or a cheat. He can't have it any other way. I strongly suspect the former. Hibs penalty, Motherwell player sent off. Ref couldn't stand the pressure of giving that. Needs to be barred from top flight games.

If the ref had VAR and came to the same decision then I agree, but given the one time view from an angle not as clear as that we all had on TV, the referee should be given some leeway. They could just make a bad call

[Peevemor]

If the ref had VAR and came to the same decision then I agree, but given the one time view from an angle not as clear as that we all had on TV, the referee should be given some leeway. They could just make a bad call

What about the linesman who had a great angle?

I preferred it when they flagged and the referee had to overrule them if they disagreed - none of this secret squirrel stuff!

[SChibs]

It was definitely a mistake, it’s whether or not he chose to make the mistake that’s the issue.

I don’t think he was cheating, though - if he was we’d have seen Newell booked and the penalty we did get, waved away.

Not sure if I've misunderstood your post but if the referee chose to make a mistake that is cheating is it not? It's only a mistake if its accidental

[hibbysam]

What about the linesman who had a great angle?

I preferred it when they flagged and the referee had to overrule them if they disagreed - none of this secret squirrel stuff!

They’re all *****bags. Very rarely will a linesman give a decision, even which way a throw in should be. Embarrassing sometimes looking at ref/Lino just look at each other for a second wondering who will call first and then just guessing. Only thing a Lino is useful for now is ball in/out and offside calls.

[Peevemor]

They’re all *****bags. Very rarely will a linesman give a decision, even which way a throw in should be. Embarrassing sometimes looking at ref/Lino just look at each other for a second wondering who will call first and then just guessing. Only thing a Lino is useful for now is ball in/out and offside calls.Between the ref and the linesman, at least one of them would have seen that it was a clear foul.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210802/5f7a789b8f4b27d12e49bf1ae79037f8.jpg

[Skol]

What about the linesman who had a great angle?

I preferred it when they flagged and the referee had to overrule them if they disagreed - none of this secret squirrel stuff!

Linesman should live up to their new name of Assistant referee but sadly very few ever do and leave it to the ref unless consulted.

I think the ball went out of play and in that case the ref could have gone over to the Linesman and asked for his view if he was unsure.

[hibbysam]

Between the ref and the linesman, at least one of them would have seen that it was a clear foul.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210802/5f7a789b8f4b27d12e49bf1ae79037f8.jpg

I’ve no doubt the Lino would’ve seen it, 100%, just they're **** scared of making any big decision.

[Onion]

Or he just made a mistake!

We all saw it, and he prob realised it himself pretty quickly.

Ref under pressure in a half empty Motherwell stadium??! You're having a laugh!!

Nope, don't accept that. There was no part of that challenge that gave him any scope to think it was anything other than a pen. Well player didn't touch the ball at any time and there was no reason for Hibs player to take a dive.

It was live on Sky ! Much, much easier to not give a decision than to do so.

[easty]

The card not given that bothered me more was for Donnelly in the last seconds. Clear foul in the corner, he’d had a couple previous to it, it the ref blew for full time.

I had a tenner at 50/1 on Hibs win, over 3 Hibs corners, Boyle to score, Porteous booked, Donnelly booked.

When the ref blew I thought it was for the foul! I’ll take the 3 points, but a bonus £500 would’ve been good!!

[Skol]

Between the ref and the linesman, at least one of them would have seen that it was a clear foul.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210802/5f7a789b8f4b27d12e49bf1ae79037f8.jpg

That image shows the tough call that the referee had as he didn’t have a great view. No excuse for the linesman though.

[WeeRussell]

Awful decision. And I’m pretty surprised (even knowing what they’re like) to learn that this didn’t get any showing or mention on sportscene!!

[WeeRussell]

That image shows the tough call that the referee had as he didn’t have a great view. No excuse for the linesman though.

Personally don’t think either of them have any excuse. Thankfully we got the 3 points in the end anyway.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Awful decision. And I’m pretty surprised (even knowing what they’re like) to learn that this didn’t get any showing or mention on sportscene!!

It was mentioned. Commentator definitely said it.

[The_Sauz]

Agreed. I said at the game that the ref was a coward, because he would have had to send the left back off.

The ref bottled it.
That's how I saw it :agree:

[WeeRussell]

It was mentioned. Commentator definitely said it.

Ah - I haven’t seen highlights yet. Was just going on what I seen on there. Regardless it definitely should have been a big talking point.